be sitting in a golf cart, he comes up in the golf cart, but what we don't see as i said before, is any activity on his phone until 9:02. the crime occurred around 8:49 to 8:53. down there at the feed room. state's exhibit 515 that davis did about the kennels and the hose and it wasn't put up the way he would put it up. if you're going to wash off real quick, what a better place to do it, the water, pictures of the water, 199 and 190.

wouldn't take long to wash yourself off. getting that cart, and head back to the house. and then at 9:02, the defendant over there who wouldn't even admit until forced to that he was even at the scene, all of a sudden he is as busy as he's ever been. 9:02 to 9:06, 283 steps. 9:03, we see the system start up on the car, that could mean he's close by the car, as he returned with maggie's phone and placed it in that car, and then, what do we see from 9:02 to 9:06, not on four-minute period, but he's su doing. what were you doing?

and everybody though he has a photographic memory, he could not answer what he's doing during this four-minute period that is so illustrating of what we're talking about here. for four minutes he is not only going 283 steps. this is a defense exhibit, defense 156. 283 steps. and they put in the distance. we heard the distance isn't as accurate. it illustrates the point. that's 208 meters. meter, you know, roughly is a yard, a little bit more, a little bit less. i don't remember. but let's say it's 600 feet. that's a lot. and he couldn't remember what he was doing. i asked him, have you been on a treadmill, doing jumping jacks,

what were you doing at the same time you were calling all of these phones. you can see, he calls maggie, he calls randolph, he calls maggie again. all in that four-minute period where he's moving around but he couldn't remember what he was doing, just getting ready. is the prosecutor, the lawyer, manufacturing his alibi, because he knows he has to get to alameda quick. he's got to compress those time lines and that's exactly why he knew it was a lie being at the kennels to start with. he's got to compress the time lines so it would convince whoever down the road that he couldn't have known. he's got to compress them. that's why he's doing all of that right then and there. so some start up. 9:05.56 from the suburban, and then this is interesting,

maggie's phone has that orientation changed to portrait two seconds before alex's second call goes into her phone. if it's some random vigilante who knew to hide out there and counted on family guns being there, did he have esp? did he have esp to move that or was that alec turning the phone as he got to the suburban, checking as he manufactured his alibi that it was coming through. and we saw how quickly out of the gate when law enforcement arrived and in his first interview, how he's immediately referring to his phone. and then besides that, you've heard about alec, you heard from witnesses. he went down to the kennels but he didn't take his phone. is that also the lawyer and the prosecutor making sure his phone was not with him when he went

down there? you heard testimony it would be unusual for him not to take that phone down to the kennels. and then he gets underway. this call right here at 10. all of those calls, all of those steps when his phone goes active, minutes after he was at the scene with the victims and lied about it, and he's so busy but let's take him at his word again, why in the world if he's calling her so much, if he's so busy, and so concerned to call her as many times as that in a four-minute period, why would he not just drive by the kennels? why would he not just drive down there to say, hey, hey, maggs,

i'm going to alameda, what you guys doing, hey, paul, you want to go? why is he so busy at making so many calls but doesn't drive the less than a minute down there to see what they're up to. you've heard t mouth about whether or not maggie was going to go with him to alameda. that alec had actually asked her to come home that night. which he denies. that you saw the text from blanca and you heard from marian that alec wanted maggie to come

home that night, to make sure of it. malice. with all of that, why would he not just turn and drive down there. he was just in a golf cart, why would he not drive down. why would he be so anxious to have missed calls from her, and not drive down there, about the same general time period he lied, when he tried to tell you what he told you from the stand last week. right here. suburban connects to alex's iphone, he calls maggie at 9:06.52 and he's getting in the

suburban. maggie's back light off from 9:07, and you heard the testimony from the various experts about the back light, and then he leaves moselle road at 9:07 or 6. all of this is fitting together. he's on the move. at 9:08.36, he's right here doing 42 miles per hour. here's maggie's phone, and at 9:08.42. he's just passing. and at 9:08.58. just 20 seconds after he's almost at that location. he texts maggie's phone and says going to check on m, be right back. that text was unread.

now, there's been a lot of discussion from all the experts about the back light issue. and there's a lot of variables about that light coming on. every single one of them said it's not going to record an orientation change unless that light is on. and you heard from each one of the experts about those variables and about the fact that there's no guarantee that it's going to come on or not come on. and you heard about that issue, and they cross examined him about that and the rest of it, but it's a common sense determination about how iphones work. about how they work. that feature is set for actual

somebody lifting it up in the normal course. it is not set to respond necessarily to violent motion and flipping it. every expert testified to that. every single one of them did. and then besides that, you'd have to accept the fact that alec is driving by just moments prior to that time. all of these circumstances would have to go the other way of a reasonable inference in this case. he got up there and testified as to these issues, and as to the fact that there's no guarantee, in fact, more likely than not that the -- if the phone is flip a frisbee or whatever, it's not

going to light up. and that's consistent with what every other expert said. 9:07 to 9:22. the defendant's on the way to alameda, and you heard testimony from major rudolphsky, he said 74 miles per hour that night. on that particular route. what's he in a hurry about. why is he in a hurry, because he knows he has to compress that time line. and then along the way, he's manufacturing the alibi by making these short calls. 60 seconds. he calls chris wilson, he calls

john marvin. chris wilson calls him back. he's on the phone the entire way. does he say to any of them, hey, i can't get maggie on the phone, say anything like that, very short. he doesn't talk about much. and then we get down here at 9:20, there's a 130 second call, that's over at 9:22.5 and that's also when we see the vehicle go into park. that's when we have the arrival at alameda as well. >> have you heard from defense witnesses, people park around back there. okay. it's also, though, near these structures. there's that line right there. but what do we see, from 9:22 to 9:32, we have 195 steps taken. we have him calling lib by

murdaugh, calling the house two minutes later and from there, we have at 9:31 and 9:32, we have system start ups on the suburban, which you've heard from the experts, could be from having that remote key in your pocket, and walking near the car. 9:22 to 9:32 is the steps. and 9:31, you've got two system start ups, and what did you hear from shelley, they called but it still took a number of minutes before he came in. that's about six minutes right there. meanwhile, what's he so busy right there in alameda. meanwhile, rogan was trying to call his friend. he tries to message maggie. tell paul to call me.

neither one of them can respond. still a busy guy at alameda. 9:35, and 9:45. we've got 60 steps, 9:36 on the beginning of the time period, another hit on the system start up. 9:36 to, we have another hit, 9:33.05, the suburban leaves out of park. he's not there very long. and he's moving around a lot, and he's sitting off that car while he's at alameda. he told law enforcement multiple stories about his truck there.

you heard shelley smith talk about that. you heard her talk about him trying to tell her how long he'd been there. he says he was trying to tell the truth, that's not how she felt. and felt the same way when he tried to talk to her about what he was wearing that night. both of these being people that worked for the family for a long time. in alameda, we have the pause, 9:44, to 9:44.54, and that's during the time period alec calls maggie's phone again. he remembered specifically about his phone falling down the console, and that whole story.

is that true, ladies and gentlemen? or is he coming up on details on the fly, he can't remember more important things, what was the last conversation you had with your wife and child when you jetted down to the kennels and back. what did you all talk about at dinner? what were you doing from 9:02 to 9:06? those are questions he doesn't want to answer. but would a reasonable person remember those days, would they not replay in their mind every day, the last conversations that they had? why would you remember that console story because he lies convinceingly and easily, and he can do it at the drop of the hat, you've heard testimony about that. he's been doing it for all the people who trust him for years. and he did it to y'all.

he's manufacturing an alibi, he's smart, he's a good lawyer. his family has a history of prosecution, he understands these issues. that's why this case is a case that had to be figured out this particular way because he knows what to do to try to prevent evidence from being gathered and if you listen to his statements again, and listen to the questions he asked, he's asking questions like that, trying to figure out what do the police have, what do they know? he's a prosecutor, trying to manufacture his alibi, and we see this again. he calls paul. sends a text, call me babe, of course none of that is read or responded to. and then at 9:52.15, he calls chris wilson, call me if you up. call me if you up. and chris calls back, and they

chat for about two minutes including the connection time. two minutes. what does chris wilson says. he says it was a normal conversation. of course it is with this guy. he's convincing. but what does chris say? the only thing that they talked about was chris on some case, and alec was like, hey, i got to go, i'm at alameda. did alec say, hey, i can't get maggie on the phone, i've called her six times, paul won't answer either. he said call me if you up. did chris say, i got to ask you a question or let's talk about this. chris brought up some case and it was mundane. it was mundane. he's manufacturing an alibi. he's calling anybody who will answer the phone for these short conversations and it's one of

the first things out of his mouth, lock at my phone, i called this person, i called this person, i called this person. he's manufacturing this alibi. also, throughout all of this, all of this relevant time period, you see from the dylan high tower extract, you'll see that over and over again, all of these call logs that are deleted from the extraction. they're deleted, which occurred on june 10th. what's up with that? on the way back, defense exhibit

141, 142, and i'm sure they'll point out 80 miles per hour, still running pretty good there. what's he in a hurry about in the bar? doing 80 miles an hour at 9:51.42. when you text for us, his peak speed when he's texting. he arrives at alameda, and this is going to be important. rogan is trying to call paul, and he texts paul, yo, which is unread. but hits paul's phone. and then he gets to -- says alameda, sorry about that. that's obviously back at moselle . he gets there, shifting in and out of park, 2200, which is

10:00 to 10:01.43. calling maggie at 10:03.58. and then at 10:05.06, he leaves for the kennels. at 10:05.57, he arrives at the kennels, about a minute later, make it a minute, in a suburban, how long is it going to take in a golf cart? >> 10:05.57, he arrives at the kennels, and 10:06.14 is the 911 call. there's a lot of back and forth with him about that. but in his statements with what he told his law partners that he went in great details over about his activities that night, including lying about ever going to the kennels, he was very clear that he got out of the

car, and went and checked, paul and maggie, one time he said to see if they're breathing, another time to check the pulse. you've seen the horrific injuries they've suffered. 19 seconds. is that enough time for a surprised human being to come across the scene. process what they are seeing, get out of the car, go over there, check both of those bodies and call 911. he's changed the story yet again because he's confronted with this evidence. the reason why he's so quick, the reason why it's so quick is because he knew exactly what scene he was going to find.

19 seconds. that 911 call, you can hear it on the 911 call, from 10:11 to 10:14, and you can see the map points on there. those are the speeds on the suburban on those trips. took just under a minute doing 35 and 30 miles an hour. so think about that when you go back to his story about a casual trip down to the kennels in his golf court and look at the times he's trying to convince you of. 10:17 he gets off the 911 call. he calls randy. he calls randy again. he calls john marvin. and then we see at 10:20 and 8

seconds, paul's phone reflects that autolock thing, and could be as you heard from the testimony, not recognizing a face, and this is interesting. we'll see over the next few slides, he spends a whole lot of time trying to call rogan gibson. he told you, oh, well he's a good boy that lived down the street. he lived close by. he's calling rogan before he calls many of his family, before he calls buster. calling rogan multiple times, and those texts would have come in on paul's phone. what's he so concerned about? he said he turned paul over and his cell phone popped out.

popped out? manufacturing an alibi, concerned about the evidence? worried about what rogan may have known or heard? i'll put it down. can i have the slide, please? 10:24. i messages, call me. 10:25. 10:29, 10:25, first deputies on the scene. 10:29 calling randy. 10:30, rogan again, and then finally at 10:34 is when paul's phone powers on. on.

opportunity. motive. means. and opportunity. guilty conscience. conscience. i've already kind of talked about these so i'm not going to belabor the point. you heard from simpson, he was wearing a polo shirt when he

left. he was wearing this shirt, she recognized both of those. he of course turned over the t-shirt that he was wearing when law enforcement arrived, and then you heard blaca say he later tried to convince her he was wearing a vinny vine shirt. three shirts in one day, and a fourth one he tried to get blanca say. you heard her testimony, she felt very uncomfortable about that. multiple changes of shoes in the day. he would be wearing those shoes if he were out riding the property. i've already mentioned the texts for maggie that alec wants me to come home, but he can't be clear about that point because that doesn't fit with his narrative. marian proctor says the same thing, he can't remember that because it doesn't fit his narrative. he was surprised maggie didn't go along to alameda.

and then she said alec made an interesting comment, one of many, some that came from the stand that we'll talk about in a little bit. whoever did this thought about it for a really long time. why would he say that. because he told you that it was just random vigilantes from the boat case of which there was no evidence whatsoever, that you have seen in this record. trials depend on evidence. there has to be evidence to make a decision, and his claims trying to manufacture something about the vape case, there's been no evidence whatsoever of any specific other individual. there has to be evidence to consider. not just mere allegations that have no basis in any sort of evidence. whoever did this thought about

it for a really long time. i think if you think about the defendant's statements and some of the things he says, a lot of times he says things in one context but he means them in another. when he says things like i hurt the ones i love the most. we talked about shelley. after randolph's funeral, he shows up early. she might have said wednesday but there was other information that randolph's funeral was on monday. but anyway, shows up early and wants to come in, goes and moves

some vehicles. and then there's that raincoat. huge raincoat. she calls it a tarp. it was a huge raincoat, and it's got a ton of gsr on the inside and is found in the closet upstairs. he was a busy guy at alameda as we just saw. was moving around, kept hitting off his suburban, and then of course, as you heard, he was with family for the next few days. after the funeral, he's back, and it was weird enough and interesting enough that shelley said something about it.

while also saying that in her experience it was unusual for him to come that way. then we have the defendant. and his many statements. went through a lot with the defendant who told you that reason he was telling you this new story was because he was paranoid because he had a bag of pills in his pocket because he had a distrust of sled because david owen asked him about his relationship with maggie. and his law partners told him that he should have an attorney

present, and one of his law partners sitting in the back. >> i hate to have to do this. >> i understand. i totally understand. you don't have any problem with it. >> i asked him repeatedly is this the point where you decided to lie, at which point did you decide to lie? >> i hate to have to do this. >> or was it this point when he first says i was at the house? >> i was at the house. >> or was this the point? he mentioned specifically, and he kept adding factors and one of the things was dave owen asked me how my relationship was. this question, this is when he

decided to lie? >> yours and maggie's? >> wonderful. i mean, i'm sure we had little things here and there, but we had a wonderful marriage, wonderful relationship. >> but he digs in on the point. >> what did you do when you went in the office? >> no, i was home. i came home. paul and i messed around. i was up at the house. laid down, took a nap on the couch, probably, i don't know, 25, 30 minutes. i got up, i called maggie. didn't get an answer, and i left to go to my mom's. >> this is june 8th at 1:21 in

the morning. and he's admitted to you that he's lying right there. look how easily he did it. about such a crucial thing. >> and she's very good about answering the phone so that was odd, or calling me back, so that was odd but it wasn't that big of a deal. >> it was odd, but not that big a deal, but again, it was enough to say it was odd, enough to make all of those calls while he's doing 283 steps, but he doesn't drive 50 seconds down to the kennels? going to the next interview. again, what's the tone of this

interview? how is he being treated? >> pretty traumatic. >> that's okay. you ask me what you need to. >> is that a aggressive interview? is that something that makes somebody paranoid? >> i'm a defendant in a civil case involving my son. i told you about the boat wreck. >> yes, sir. >> and there was some motions coming up in that on thursday, and i was supposed to be getting ready for those things, and then other junk. >> mentions the boat case. >> and paul left? . >> and i'm assuming, you know, i'm assuming paul left because of, you know, what happened. >> yeah. >> i'm assuming paul went to the kennels. >> okay. and what did you do once maggie and paul left? >> i stayed in the house. >> okay. >> and i was watching tv,

looking at my phone and i actually fell asleep on my couch. >> okay. >> and what time did you wake up? >> i don't know exactly what time i woke up, but when y'all get my phone, i think one of the first things i did when i got up is call maggie because i was going to my mom's. and i know i texted her because i checked my phone, and did you see what time the text was, jim, like 9:06. >> i didn't see it. so, you know, i texted her. so i called her just before that, and she didn't answer. at that point, and i left to go to my mom's. >> so easy for him to do. >> and you said you laid down and took a little nap, and when

you got up, maggie and paul was gone or did they leave when you laid down? >> i believe that. i'm not sure. >> but they weren't there when you woke up around 9:00 or so when you made the call to let her know? >> no, nobody was in that house when i left. >> add in more detail, it's just lies. watch how he responds to this one. watch what his head does, see if you observe that yourself, when he's over there, looking you in your eyes and trying to convince you of something. >> the last time that paul -- you saw paul and maggie is when you were eating supper? >> yes, sir.

>> and when paul's phone came out, did you just pick it up and place it back down on him or? >> you know, yeah, i did not try to open it or anything, you know. i just -- i don't know how i had in my mind that i needed to not mess anything up. i had that, you know. >> going to the third interview on august 11th. >> you know, i don't know exactly how it went.

i stayed on the couch and i dozed off. >> on paul's phone, you were in khaki pants and a dress shirt, playing with a tree? >> i don't remember playing with a tree. >> i guess there was something that was fallen over or bending over and you were trying to get it to stand back or stand up. the question is when i met you, you were in shorts and a t-shirt. at what point in the evening did you change clothes? >> i'm not sure. you know, it would have been -- >> before dinner or after dinner? >> no, it would have been -- what time of day was that?

i would have thought i already checked. >> there's not a time stamp on it because there's so many posts. but it looks to be about dusk. so that would have been 7:30, 8:00. >> i guess i changed when i got back to the house. >> that's a very specific recollections for y'all when he testified with his new story that had never been heard until >> told me about the dog's tail, somebody saying his leg was broken. >> right there, he was down at the kennels. shaking his head forward. >> you were just down there with

paul. you left, you went back to the house. >> you know, i mean, paul and i were just knocking around up at the shop, the shed, the kennels you know, just the whole property, and that was before dinner yesterday. >> and you didn't go back until your return from visiting your mother? >> yes, sir. >> i've gotten information that paul was on the phone and maggie was in the background. and you were in the background. and that was prior to. >> i heard rogan ask me if i was

up there. he said he thought it was me. >> was it you? >> at 9:00? >> yes, sir. >> no, sir. not if my time's are right. >> who do you think it could have been? >> i have no idea. >> and rogan has been around your family pretty much all of his life? >> absolutely. >> and he recognizes your voice, and you have a distinct voice. do you think anybody else that has a voice similar to yours that may have misinterpreted? >> no, sir. when we were talking, he had asked me that, so, i mean, he had told me that he thought i was up there. >> did that surprise you?

>> yes, sir. >> we'll come back to that. i want to talk a little bit about the crime scene. and what it indicates. you guys went out to the scene

today. and you saw how it looks now. take a good look at those trees and where they were back the day of the incident. i'll put these up in a second. and you can see the proximity of the kennels to that residence. back on june 7th, 2021. 2021.

>> the images of the power point, but i do have those right here. all right. doctor, you have heard from kenny kinsey and the defense

experts, so do you have the computer back? >> all right. everybody, we have a little time and a lot to get to. you have been watching closing arguments in alec murdaugh case. of course the prosecution presenting these closing arguments led by chief prosecutor creighton waters. i'm yasmin vossoughian in for katy tur. really going through the case in the last couple of hours, starting at midday or so, presenting of course reasonable doubt knowing that the jury very much could foil the prosecution's arguments here by reasonable doubt, going into the motive here. this was a man in incredible financial distress, a man that was going through withdrawal because of his drug addictions, the time line, and then of course the lies. the discovery of that snapchat video and then the discovery

that, in fact, alec murdaugh was the man who was the third voice that was heard in the snapchat video. i want to bring in nbc news senior legal correspondent laura jarrett, and south carolina criminal defense attorney jack swirly as well, a close associate of murdaugh defense attorney, dick harpootlian. we have been watching this thing all day. what has stood out to you so far in the defense's closing arguments? or the prosecution's i should say? >> we're finally now getting to the heart of the prosecution's case, and perhaps the most strong piece of their case, which is the time line. and how the time line is just not plausible for him. and so what you finally see now is getting away from all of the financial crimes, getting away from what prosecution says is the motive, which is that alec murdaugh wanted to distract from his financial storm as the prosecution puts it, and so the motive apparently in their view

was to commit this heinous crime to invoke sympathy in everyone so that they wouldn't worry about the financial crimes. you can debate whether or not that's a good, effective technique as a motive, but it's hard for, i think, them to make that case, so instead, what you see now is to really focus on the time line, and really focus on how this doesn't add up, and now what they're doing just minutes ago, most effective, i think, is to show his history of past lies, to show how easily he does it, when you hear him invent this new story, prosecutor waters says a new story, to show them he lied to you ladies and gentlemen because you've seen him lie repeatedly time and time again about being at the scene of the crime which of course again is the heart of the case. >> andtories transpired throughout time. jack, i'm going to go around the horn here, danny cevallos, standing by. jack, what has stood out to you in the prosecution's case?

>> i think he's doing a good job pulling everything together in the closing argument. he's using a power point presentation so he doesn't forget anything, and it's a very difficult task to make it as coherent as he's doing. and you know, we're going to hear from jim, i believe, is going to do the closing argument for the defense, and he's going to be effective too. i mean, i have been involved in cases with these guys, and they're very good, very good lawyers. i'm proud of them. >> danny cevallos, weigh in for me. what's standing out to you today? >> this is prosecutor closing argument 101, using a power point, very common for prosecutors, and i think a bit of a stumble here is putting way too many words on the power point, making it a reading exercise for the jury. i can't fault the prosecution. they must think they have an embarrassment of riches in terms of evidence and they must be concerned that there's some piece of data, some point, that

they won't include that maybe the jury would seize on. so because the prosecution has the burden to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt they have an incentive to cram everything they can into the record, and that leads to these power points with 50 bullet points and 12 point font. it makes it difficult to read. may not be as effective as fewer words, but this is classic prosecution, closing. >> i want to play some sound as we have this conversation, one of the points that i brought up as we came out of these closing arguments was of course the presentation of reasonable doubt. i want presentation of reasonable doubt. i want to play that moment for folks so we can go back in time, and then we'll talk on the other side. >> i used to try a case against the defense attorney, and he would pull up a picture. right here i have the mona lisa. and he would tear off a piece like that, and say ladies and gentlemen, that's reasonable

doubt. and my response to that is i still know what this is, right? i still know what it is. that's reasonable doubt. if you still know what it is and you're firmly convinced, then it's your duty under the oath that you've taken. >> laura, creighton obviously knows that reasonable doubt could certainly foil the prosecution's case here, right? >> all they need is one juror to believe alex murdaugh's story. this jury will hang and he will walk. >> was this effective? >> you know, it's hard to say. the gimmicks are hard. i think some juries find it helpful to get their mind around it. the whole concept of it is the doubt has to be reasonable. it's not just any doubt. that's why he is saying you still know what a mona lisa is, even if i tear off the side of it. the image doesn't change. i don't know whether that's effective or not. sometimes those are more distracting than they're useful. but again, what's most useful is tying it to the actual evidence

here and making it appeal to common sense. why would a man who is perfectly innocent who is a loving father invent a lie when he doesn't are to? why would he try to convince various witnesses, a caregiver, a house keeper to make up a story if he has no reason to make up a story? that type of appeal to common sense i think is really effective more than gimmicks. >> there was that moment, i want to play this moment for folks talking about the snapchat video we knew he lied about originally and then admitted to being at the dog kennels in and being the voice in that snapchat video. let's listen to that. >> they didn't have this kennel video until april of 2022. when paul's phone was finally unlocked. and that changed everything.

why did it change everything? opportunity. being at the scene of the crime when the murders occurred. opportunity. and more importantly, exposing the defendant's lies about the most important thing he could have told law enforcement. when was the last time i saw my wife and child alive. why in the world would an innocent reasonable father and husband lie about that? and lie about it so early? >> danny? >> yeah, you see that old chestnut of the prosecutor pointing and pointing and pointing at the defendant, that's pretty common. but to your point, this is something i think the prosecution should hammer down, maybe move away from all this my financial world is closing in on me, because people are having a

hard time buying that motive. i know a lot of folks i talked to, smart folks think that's just an unreasonable motive. so instead they should focus, and i believe they are focusing on some of the core points that are really compelling. and one is this point. here is one major point. yes, alex murdaugh took the stand and explained the way the on star and other evidence by saying oh, i can explain that, it's because i was lying. and somehow the defense thought that would be effective. the other thing to point out is if this on star evidence didn't surface, if this other data didn't surface, do any alex mur volunteered on the stand that that, but i'm telling you now. no. he is admitting it because he got caught. that's their strongest piece of evidence that he was there. there is no evidence anyone else was there. he has a massive drug problem. he is a huge liar, and he lied about being there. and fourth, he had access to

firearms. those major points the prosecution should stick to, and the whole financial crime motive they should back away from. >> hey, jack, as they're wrapping up the defense arguments, the prosecution i should say again arguments today, we've been watching this for so many days now, when we look ahead, of course, to tomorrow as the defense begins their closing arguments, what are you expecting? >> from what i understand, jim griffin may be doing the closing argument for the defense. and he's very effective. he does use power points to make sure that he gets all the facts in and conveys those to the jury. but here's what i think the main problem is for the prosecution. >> yeah? >> most is not -- you don't have to prove motive in a murder case. but their motive that they suggested in this case just doesn't work in my opinion. no one is going to kill their spouse and their son to go ahead

and deflect from the crimes, the financial crimes. the strongest point they have is the timeline. they ought to be sticking with the timeline. and the third thing is that he lied and he lied to everybody. and he is a thief. part of the defense's concern, their strongest point is going ahead and tried to pick apart everything that the prosecution offered. but they attacked the timeline as well. so the fact that he has finally come forward and he's finally admitted he is lying, he is finally admitted these financial crimes, they need to emphasize that, and they need to emphasize obviously reasonable doubt that they created during the cross-examination and their own witness. >> thank you. danny cevallos, laura jarrett, thank you guys as well. that does it for me today, everybody. to continue following the trial, catch it screaming on nbc news now. "deadline: white house" picks up after a very quick break. quickk

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hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. it's all mixed up and backwards today, but what do you expect when the foxes are guarding the hen house. with every twist and turn, the january 6th security footage get morse ridiculous, more outrageous, more alarming that is true as ever this afternoon as we come on the air. as you already know, house

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