certain here? norfolk southern, billions of dollars in stock buybacks, layoffs of dozens of workers, they are clearly not picking up for the public interest, and their railroad lobby is powerful, but so far, we got three republicans on board, and i think we can get more. >> all right senator sherrod brown of ohio, thank you so much. >> chris, thank you, always. >> that is all in on this wednesday night. alex wagner tonight starts right now, good evening, alex. wagner tonight star>> what's he railroad companies? now we are all experts in the efficiency mechanisms employed in the last decade and the stock buybacks, it's a picture of how these kinds of accidents happen and are not that within a matter that they have to be. >> it's one of these things to happen during covid, right? there's a system running in the program that we don't think about, like how did the chemicals get across the country. there's a whole system for the, and then there is a powerful what the companies that wants the public to pay for the risk

as much as possible, operating in the background and then disaster happens. >> between the potential rail strike and this accident, it just blow this whole thing open and now we are acutely aware of all the risk involved. thank you, my friend, as always. and thanks to you at home for joining us tonight. do you remember this photo? the iconic image of classified documents laid out on the floor of donald trump's mar-a-lago home after the fbi search the esophagus. the reason we have all seen this photo is because donald trump essentially forced the justice department to reveal it in a court filing after trump went to court to try to slow down the investigation. that is how we all access to the photo a summer. a filing in open court. there is literally no question as to its origin. who made the photo public, and why it was being made public, which is what made this exchange the day between senator ted cruz and attorney general merrick garland, it's why it made it a little awkward.

>> as you know, the fbi raided donald trump's mar-a-lago home and subsequent to that raid, there have been multiple leaks about what was discovered there, including a photograph of documents discovered there. did you know about the leaks? >> the photograph was a filing in court in response to a motion filed by mr. trump. it was not a leak. >> it was not a lead. full stop, that was one of many exchanges for merrick garland's testimony today on capitol hill, and we'll have more on what happened in that strange and contentious hearing later on in the hour. but one of the consistent themes we have been hearing from republicans, including ted cruz, is the idea that the fbi is now hell-bent on taking down donald trump, that the fbi has somehow caved to democratic political pressure and is part of a partisan scheme to destroy trump's political prospects. so it was notable on the very

same day as this hearing was happening on capitol hill that we got this brand-new piece of reporting for the washington post, detailing exactly what was happening inside the fbi and the justice department ahead of last summer search of mar-a-lago. that reporting makes it clear that the fbi had, in fact, succumbed to some political pressure, but it was not pressure to investigate or damage donald trump, it was the opposite. fbi agents investigating the former presidents retention a classified documents had been intimidated by trump's relentless attacks over the years and basically cowed into operating with extreme caution. this is a quote from the police, justice department prosecutors learned fbi agents were low to conduct the surprise search. they heard from top fbi officials that some agents were simply afraid. they worried taking aggressive steps investigating trump could blemish or even and their careers, according to some people with knowledge of the discussion. one official dubbed it the

hangover of cross fire hurricane, a reference to the fbi investigation of russia's interference in the 2016 presidential election. the fbi, the same fbi that certain republicans have been attacking, was not champing at the bit to read donald trump speeches mention. instead, the agency was proceeding exceedingly carefully, and they were worried about the political implications of provoking the former president, and all this resulted in very heated battles between the fbi and justice department prosecutors who were advocating the more aggressive strategy of trying to retrieve those documents down at mar-a-lago. according to the washington post, it was only after a series of intense negotiations with justice department prosecutors that the fbi eventually moved forward with its search, and all along the way, in spite of all of the evidence to the contrary, the fbi continued to give trump and his legal team the benefit of the doubt. the washington post reports that some fbi field agents wanted to shutter the criminal

investigation altogether, in early june, after trump's legal team asserted a diligent search had been conducted. but according to the washington post, the justice department prosecutors continue to push for a search of mar-a-lago. those prosecutors were ultimately vindicated when the eventual search in august recovered more than 100 classified documents. 18 of them top secret and so secret that fbi and doj investigators did not even have clearance to review them. so, how does this new behind the scenes reporting change what we know about the investigation and or it might be headed next? joining us now is devlin barrett, national security and law enforcement reporter for the washington post, one of the violence on this piece. devlin, thank you for making the time. it's been exhausted reporting, and i kind of came away with it confused and enlightened. what is your take away from having investigated all of this, in terms of the relationship

with the doj and the fbi on the topic of the trump mar-a-lago search? >> so, i think there are a couple of ways to think about. one is that it is very common for prosecutors and agents to argue during the course of investigation about what exactly to do, how aggressive to go after witnesses, how aggressive to go after evidence. that happens in a lot of cases. there are tension points, flare-ups, they get resolved, and they move forward. i think what is so different about the trump investigation is really two things. obviously, this is a very high profile case, you know that there will be a lot of attention paid to this. you know that there will be a lot of second-guessing, both inside the government and outside the government, and to, i think, as you've seen and the discussions, as we report them, there is a lot of tension and worry about making the wrong move. for the fbi agents, that often meant worrying about what if we go too fast, too quickly and

make a mistake? for the justice department prosecutors, the worry was often, we can't sit on this. we can't just wait and hope that the former president will do the right thing, and those two worries and two types of concerns really were at odds sometimes. >> devlin, i guess one of the things -- i wonder what your final opinion on this is. on one hand, it seems like fbi agents are reluctant to investigate two radar search the mar-a-lago property because they're concerned about the optics, they're concerned about what will happen in their careers, they don't want to go in and read a former presidents homes and jackets that say fbi. and then on the other hand, it seems like some legitimate belief that maybe trump and his legal team are cooperating, and that they have gotten everything that they need. how much of this reluctance to search mar-a-lago was due to political pressure, and how much of it was legitimate belief that, actually, we have everything that we need?

>> so, i think one thing to remember is the hangover, crossfire hurricane and really, the hangover investigation of 2016 into donald trump and into hillary clinton just permeate this whole discussion, and i think it's important to remember as much as there were political debates and political retribution, there were also genuine mistakes made in the course of those investigations, that the fbi paid dearly for after the fact. so, i certainly don't discount the justice department concerns that too much of the fbi's caution was based on the idea of political blowback. but i also think you had to keep in mind that there were inspector general reports that were sharply critical of how the fbi did past investigations at this type of profile, so what you see in these back and forth, what our reporting shows, is that there is a degree of

really different approach, so much so that back in may, even before the subpoena dissent for these documents, some of the justice department officials want to do a search then. and the fbi thinks that's a bad idea, and then they get a little cooperation from the trump side, and the debate between the fbi and justice department is how much is this for cooperation or partial cooperation? there, again, you see the difference. >> then they get the security camera footage that shows people moving boxes in and around mar-a-lago, maybe we don't have everything. >> that's a huge piece of evidence. >> there's some reporting you did at the end of last, year and i will pull up the headline. investigators see ego, not money, as trump's motive on classified papers. is it still your understanding that prosecutors believe trump's motivating -- the reason he took these documents down to mar-a-lago was ego, and if so, how do you think that informs the way that

they feel about the search slash read at this point? >> right, so first of all, i think we need to be clear, when you say it was ego as the most likely motive here, that does not get trump off the hook. obviously, if you are doing something for purely financial purposes, i think most people agreed that would be worse, but the bottom line is to have these documents that is not supposed to be handled is they are not supposed to leave secured facilities and government safeguards around it, so our understanding is that reporting is still right where it is, which is that these documents, these classified documents seem to be jammed and with a bunch of stuff, and people don't seem to have been careful or thoughtful at all as to taking this volume of classified material out of government security, of government custody, but a big part of this case is about what happens in the summer after the

government formally demands the stuff back with a subpoena. as you pointed out, there is security camera footage that we reported that shows people moving boxes after -- boxes of documents, after the subpoena has been received, and that is a big red warning sign to prosecutors and agents on both sides. for all the disagreements that may have existed at different times, both sides agreed that that security camera footage changed the understanding of this case. >> right, it's just too bad that the timeline, because of the internal argument and the special master pushed back the charging decisions on the parts of the prosecutors, and now we have special counsel that will make that call for us. devlin barrett from the washington post, thank you for joining us tonight, great reporting, riveting account of what's been happening in an important investigation. thank you for your time. >> thanks. >> joining us now is brandon van grack, a former national security official at the doj and former prosecutor on the

robert mueller counsel team. brandon, thank you for being here, what a time to talk about what is going on, specifically this reporting. i wonder after you read it, what stood out to you? did the relationship between the prosecutors and the fbi agents unlike the experience that you have had, or was it different? >> well, what stuff got the most is that there were individuals, senior officials, who were part of this deliberation, that chose to be disinformation, right at the time that the department of and fbi are likely making a charging decision. debate, deliberation, disagreement, as stephen was mentioning is common, does occur. but when you have a leak like this, it undermines the integrity of the investigation, and most importantly, how do those individuals, those same

individuals go into a room and have an honest and candid discussion about charges, knowing that there are people who, if they -- if the decision goes against them, there is disagreement, that they may or their grievances publicly. i think it's sort of a troubling thing to learn, and i think it does have an impact on the investigation. >> i mean, how do you read -- when i finished the story, i thought that the -- everybody is operating out of an abundance of caution here. the concerns were made by fbi agents, they were listened to, a whole series of negotiations, they waited until they had an airtight case to pursue this search of mar-a-lago. i mean, if anything, it refutes the idea that the fbi, that the doj is somehow recognized -- weaponized against trump. with that laid a foundation for the charge a decision that could criminally indict the president, or do you think that

is something else? >> there is the reporting shows the thoughtful deliberation that you just went through. i don't think this is about whether the facts are ultimately leaning towards a particular conclusion. it's the fact that, deliberative discussions like this, they are protected. they are privileged. they are not disclosed, and it is for a reason, because he wants someone to be on us and say, look, my agents are concerned about conducting this raid because of retribution. you want people to become the placenta. it's true, let's be honest about the fact that they are or maybe negative consequences. it has happened in prior investigations. you want people to feel accountable, at least expressing those fears and concerns, and when people feel comfortable in those environments disclosing the, outside of that, that protect the space, then it impairs the

ability of people to be honest, to those considerations in, and it's the reason why not that ultimately, everything you've seen from the department is that ultimately, i think they reached the right conclusion, with the reconsideration's, but it does affect the process. it's the process that i am concerned about. >> there is an ongoing doj investigation courtesy of special counsel jack smith and think about the story like this about the deliberations effects behind closed doors and the doj reno? >> i think there has to be frustration. i think there has to be folks that are wondering -- frustration that this is coming up and, again, let's think of the timing. there will be a charging decision and the next couple of months. we know that based on the timeline and with respect to the election. this is all happening at a very sensible juncture. it's also happening in the morning before attorney general garland testified in front of

congress, where, these very concerns, this very debate was brought out. so it seems very intentional that now is the time that someone is trying to get all this information. >> yeah, we know that senator josh hawley was questioning the attorney general on the hill about the story, saying, you signed off on this raid, you overrode the desire of fbi agents. it's already being weaponized by the right to some degree. no matter what anybody's take away from the story may be. but to put the meta-narrative aside are now, the implications of this story on present investigations, i wonder if you can break down a little of the dynamic that we see playing out in this piece, which is that the doj work so intently to propose that it is and a political organization, and the fbi works with all politics on the landscape, but what becomes abundantly clear in this account and to be honest, other

ones is trying to be a political that the justice department ultimately makes political decisions. is that a fair assessment? >> i will give a defensive response. i don't think it's a fair assessment. i certainly -- that is not the takeaway that i have with this story. i think the story is that you have both the department of justice and the fbi proceeding carefully and cautiously, as they should, in conducting a search, not a raid, a search of a former presidents residence. they should be careful and cautious and to the and, it's important to note that the right decision was reached here. like the search happened. we talked about in politics injecting this, all of the reporting from the special counsel jack smith is an investigation that is proceeding full speed ahead, aggressively, bringing people in front of the grandeur, bringing attorneys at the

former president. it shocked me that what might, this is an investigation that should proceed carefully and cautiously. i don't think we've seen anything at least in this investigation that screams politics or politics are inappropriately or unfairly affecting the investigation. >> what i meant but that is the degree to which we have to entertain the reservations a few agents who are scared of trump, even though they have the evidence that, you know, a rate or search will make sense. >> that is a great point, and i think it's great with the timeline, at least according to the reporting which is that there is an indication that the department of justice in may wanting to proceed with a search warrant, and instead, the decision was made, according to this reporting, that let's do a subpoena instead, and it turns out that going forth with the subpoena was the right decision, not

only did they obtain evidence but it turns out that this is where the evidence of obstruction comes to light, and, in fact, it justifies, further justifies this decision to conduct a search. so, in fact, one other piece which is the debate i find interesting in the reporting was that, the fbi even at that late stage in july said that there should be a consensual search, and i want to highlight from some of the filings that occurred last summer and fall that there was an opportunity for a consensual search. on june 3rd, the department of justice was at mar-a-lago with three fbi agents, and they were explicitly prohibited, explicitly prohibited from searching the storage room where the documents were. there had been an opportunity for consensual search, and at the time had passed. >> yeah, and they were given many bites of the apple, as they were and basically made the case for their own obstruction over team trump.

brandon van grack, thank you so much for coming on the show, thank you for a daytime, we really appreciate the perspective. >> thank you. >> we have a lot more to get to this evening, including a major win for people who need lifesaving medication a price they can actually afford, plus, senate republicans tried to tussle with attorney general merrick garland today and, boy oh boy, we will have more on that ahead. that ahead your best defense against erosion and cavities is strong enamel- nothing beats it. new pronamel active shield actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. i think that this product is a gamechanger for my patients- it really works. >> woman: why did we choose safelite? gamechanger for my patients- >> vo: driving around is how we get our baby to sleep, so when our windshield cracked, we trusted the experts. they focus on our safety... so we can focus on this little guy. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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office two years ago, the department was embroiled in scandal. it committed to restore its independence. i believe you kept your word. i expect that we will hear accusations that they from some of my republican colleagues to the country, such as weaponization of the justice department. >> your department is not trusted because it has been politicized. >> the department of justice has been politicized to the greatest extent i've ever seen in this country. it's done it discredited to portman of justice and fbi, the administration of law and the country. >> that is what attorney general merrick garland faced a day when he appeared before the senate judiciary committee for an oversight committee hearing. garlands repeat appearance that this kind of hearing is a real return to how things used to work. by way of an example, the last

attorney general who appeared at one of these hearings was jeff sessions. remember jeff sessions? back in the year 2017, when republicans control the senate. today, republican because the opportunity to grow garland on issues that the most important of the country. senator chuck grassley focused on the investigation into hunter biden. senator marsha blackburn after garland and what she called the two thirds of justice and questioned why the department had not prosecuted a group accused of firing bombing a crisis pregnancy center in her state. crisis pregnancy centers, if you recall, are not for discouraging people from having abortions as advertising themselves as having clinics and information about abortions. this was an exchange about senator blackburn and the attorney general. >> let's talk about the far left group janes revenge. they claimed the responsibility for that. they went so far as to spray-paint their name on the

wall. do you intend to prosecute that? >> i intend if we find them to do that -- >> so you can't find them? >> if you have information about those groups -- >> that is your job. >> that's right, we're putting heavy resources into this. >> meanwhile, several other senators are concerned that no charges have been filed that have been protested outside the residence of supreme court justices in the wake of the leak dobbs decision to overturn roe v. wade. senator tom cotton appeared to question whether the doj was to preoccupied to take any meaningful action. >> consider the efforts department is put into checked on everyone, even on the capitol grounds on january six, 2021? you've dedicated 1 million of man hours to study videotape, to do forensic analysis of computers and devices, to go knock and conduct interviews. you can't allocate just a few agents to look at people's social media accounts to say that they were present outside

the justice home, we will go arrest and charge them? it's a black letter violation of the law. >> our priority is violence and threats of violence and protection of the justices, and that is what we're doing. >> joining us now is matt miller, former chief spokesperson for the obama justice department. matt, thank you for being here. just wow in terms of everything marilyn has to deal with, in addition to killings like that on the hill, let's just refresh everybody's memory about what this man is dealing with. the special counsel investigation into trump's handling of documents, the special counsel investigation into biden's handling of documents. the ongoing hunter and biden investigation, the ongoing durham probe and the special investigation into january six made it on to that list. it's nonetheless a major investigation. is it in this climate possible for merrick garland to wear all these hats and manage all this in a way to is going to convince anyone that the

department of justice is not being politicized? >> i think you can do all descend commit some people that the department is not being politicized, but you're never going to convince everyone that the doj has not been politicized, especially because there are always people who want to believe that no matter the facts and refused to accept evidence, even when it's put in front of the face. you saw that today where a lot of the questions that the attorney general supplied answers to and the senators who asked the questions did not want to hear those answers and continued to ask the same questions over and over. i think when you have to stop, look, this is not just a merrick garland problem. this is been for an attorney general going back years and years. it is true of eric holder when i worked for him, true for janet reno, true for the case of jenner -- attorney generals both parties, because the issues that both departments handle are so sensitive and so political and so important that they they raised tempers on both sides of the aisle. with all due respect in those years and your service and thank you for that surface, it

feels like the investigations that garland has to pay particular attention to, things like the durham probe, which from all outset accounts, did not find anything. and investigation into the investigator to look at the trump russia investigation. the hunter biden a top story, which remains an investigation at the department of justice. even the resources that the department is allocating to crisis pregnancy centers, at the precise moment though, reproductive freedoms are under assault in this country, it feels like he has to politically dedicate resources to these investigations to these conflicts, if you will, in a way that other attorney generals might not have had to. do you think that is a fair assessment? >> i certainly think he has spent's time thinking about them, thinking about how he responded them on on the hill and getting questions from reporters, but one of the things that is really important in this top is that you do not let political pressure bludgeon you into doing things that you would not otherwise do. you really have to remember when you go up and take these

attacks on the hill to focus on the things that you can control and your job and the things that you can't. you can control how you perform your job, you can't control what people say about you and what attacks they may lunch at you. i think some of the worst moments in the department's recent history has been when it has led political pressure push into doing things and handling and investigation that would not -- in ways that it would not otherwise conductive. the hillary clinton investigation is probably the most prominent example where jim comey, most prominently but certainly was not the only person in the department who made the decision about that case. because of the pressure that they're getting from republicans on capitol hill. once you start the parting from the way that you would normally conduct investigations and start doing things because people on the hill are saying put resources here, not where the facts or the law justify resources being spent, you really start to make mistakes that can come to mark your tenure and are very difficult to undo. >> yeah, i wonder what you made of tom cotton suggesting that the doj is too busy

investigating the insurrectionists and advocated committee resources to january six, and i should maybe spent some of that time and human capital investigating people who are protesting outside the supreme court justices home after the dobbs decision? >> yeah, there's an easy answer to that, which is no matter what you think about the appropriateness of protesting outside the supreme court justice's house, it is not illegal to do so. it is, of course, deter and a supreme court justice, and the department has arrested and is prosecuted someone who are there and justice kavanaugh outside his home, but it is not illegal the purpose. there is very much illegal to enter the capitol and built an insurrection. there are apples and origin comparisons debate on the hill. you saw this in the case of senator blackburn's questions about investigation into the crisis pregnancy centers. as the attorney general made very clear, if you can find evidence of someone who had fired bomb a crisis pregnancy center, we will very much prosecute them. the difference between those cases and the prosecutions that they have brought the people

who have blocked access to abortion clinics is evidence. they have the evidence, they can see the people who have blocked access to abortion clinics. the fire bombing of this crisis pregnancy center half and undid middle of the night, they don't yet sepsis, but they are investigating. it goes to the point i said at the outset, which is oftentimes in these hearings, you get questions from people who don't want answers and attacks made for people who are not interested in the actual truth. >> yes, comparisons you generally say apples to oranges. i would say it's more along the lines of apples to chicken nuggets or wooden blocks to bananas, but that's just my interpretation of all this. matt miller, thank you my friend, for joining us tonight, i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> we have a lot more to get to tonight, including new revelations about the judicial activists who is arguably responsible for the conservative majority on the supreme court and who suddenly got very, very rich during the trump years. plus, the pressure on one drug manufacturer to lower the price

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of twitter elam a squirrel down a major change in the platform, and a low price of $8 a month,

and a user could skip the typical due diligence that putin had done in the past to verify user identities and just pay to be verified on the site. it led to chaos. the amount remember spoof accounts like this one, pretending to be pepsi, tweeting that koch is better. or the spoof account of nintendo the tweeted a photo of the character mario with his middle finger up. but the trolling tweet that caused the most real life drama that day was this one. and account pretended to be one of the largest insulin manufacturers in the country, eli lily saying, quote, we are excited to announce that insulin is free now. within a day, eli lily stock had fallen nearly 5%. the washington post reported that insight eli lily itself, fake tweet sport a panic. company officials scrambled to contact twitter representatives and demanded that the take down the viral spoof, worried it could undermine their brand's reputation. there is good reason that eli lily was worried that the idea

of free insulin would ruin its reputation. insulin has been around for more than 100 years now. it costs drug companies roughly $10 able to make, but for decades, eli lily has been raising the price of insulin, charging hundreds of dollars for a product that only takes ten to make. and eli lily is not alone. american insulin manufacturers charge exponentially more per file compared to manufactures in other countries do. because so many diabetics need insulin to live, paying these prices is not really a choice. last year, more than 1 million americans were forced to ration their insulin rather than take the prescribed amount. the cost saving measure to be deadly. if you're wondering what this is not been fixed in let's station, the truth is that activists and democrats have been trying for years. last year, president biden managed to cap insulin prices for seniors who had medicare at $35 per month. but republicans voted against a law that this count to prove fly to the millions of americans under 65 who needed

to jump to live. with republican control of the house this year, there was not a ton of hope that new legislation will get passed anytime soon, but now, it looks like it might not have to. today, eli lily announced that they are voluntarily capping the price of their insulin at $35 a month, whether or not you have insurance effective immediately. the company ceo said the decision came as a result of conversations between the company and members of congress. the company may also have been spurred to act because now, nonprofits and start-ups and even the california state government are all set to start making their own cheaper insulin imminently. now, all of that was probably not be happening if it weren't for everyone from activists who internet trolls being incredibly loud on this issue for years now. you should not lose sight of that. public pressure works. still to come tonight, explosive new reporting and investigation into the man

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♪ ♪ ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪ >> leonard leo has single-handedly changed the face of the judiciary under the auspices of edmee's and many people that started the federalist society. he has many hats. that isn't even all he does.

he doesn't weigh tell-all that he does, but i know enough to know the man is a force of nature. >> that was the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas. and the man that she was talking about is a major conservative fund-raiser and judicial activist, and a friend of the thomas's. a man known as donald trump's judge whisper. leonard leo. as i executive director of the federal society until 2020, and trump's on page additional advisor, leo was a source of president trump's list of approve conservative nominees for the supreme court. that is how we got justices and neil gorsuch, brett kavanaugh, and amy coney barrett through trump's judge whisperer. through leonard leo. and in an epic new report today, politico gave new meaning to ginni thomas's statement about leo. he doesn't tell all that he does, but i know enough to know that the man is a force of nature. soon after leo became trump's advisor in 2016, he amassed an actual amount of wealth.

you've got to multi million dollar mountains in maine, along with four new cars, spots and private schools for his children, and a wine locker at mortise steakhouse, i mean i don't know exactly what a wine locker is, but it sounds fancy and maybe a necessary. mr. leo certainly didn't tell the public how he bought all of that. but thanks to politico we now have a pretty good idea. lee of personal wealth appears to have skyrocketed in tandem with major victories on the road to an ultra conservative court. one day before the senate took a controversial procedural vote clearing the way for kavanaugh's appointment to replace kennedy, that was the day leonard leo bought his first mansion up in the state of maine. that last mile upgrade was reportedly funded by leo's a network of nonprofit organizations. based on dozens of records from 2000 to 2021, politico found that after he became a trump advisor in 2016. leo you back today -- a for profit is to stem --

a network of political nonprofit formed by leo moves at least $43 million to a new format he is leading raising serious questions about his conservative legal movement is flooded. that new farm declined to say what services it provided for the 43 million dollar payments. a tackle expert told politico that is a classical type of situation the irs looks into if it appears you, by our nonprofit, our troubling money to yourself in a for profit contacts. political reporter says they sent leoma were quest for comment. he did not respond. he also reached out to leo tonight about politicos reporting. we have not yet heard back but all of this, together, looks kind of bad. it's certainly raising questions about the influence of dark money on the nation's highest court. joining us now is melissa murray, law professor at new york university and co-host of the strict scrutiny podcast. melissa, thank you for being here tonight! every time, i will thank you

before the start, it every time you are here, there is something explosive and terrible with the supreme court. uhm--can you tell me how you read this, because as i see it, what i showed up gleaned from this piece, it sounds like leonard leo, who is the architect of the conservative takeover of the judiciary, not just the supreme court but the federal courts across the country is getting money from donors to maybe pick the judges that have conservative donors interest in mind and then paying himself out to the tune of millions of dollars. >> so i don't know if i was necessarily surprised to read that it is blockbuster reporting from how do you buffalo. i will say that there has been a lot of discussion over the years about this empire that letter leo has constructed around absolve, mostly a nonprofit empire for a long time in 2016. as you know, when he begins this for profit extension where he has this consulting firms and now the nonprofit are

paying the consulting thrown for certain services but paying them in the terms of millions of dollars. >> $43 million! >> $40 million! >> i believe that was one year for services that remained unexplained. >> so it's -- again, this is a man that we all knew it had extraordinary outsized influence in washington particularly around the federal judiciary. you are putting mentioned only the three trump justices, but it goes much deeper than that. donald trump, the most successful aspects of his domestic agenda was the nomination of judges. it's really the only thing that he was able to actually do as president on a domestic agenda. leonard leo was acts absolutely pivotal to that. not just identifying it was for the supreme court, but for the lower federal courts as well. and they do this amazingly well. they nominated and confirmed 54 court of appeals judges in four years. barack obama in eight years nominated and confirmed 55. the trump administration basically get that in half the

time and a lot of it was lettered leo. and a lot of it was a betting these individuals through their bonus fetus through letters legal federal society. >> yes! >> so all this is sort of deeply intertwined. the judicial crisis network which is now a concrete fund, which is also part of the letter toledo empire, is related to the federal society which letter leo was the chairman up for many years, but now has that back as we watch this for profit consulting c. it's a lot! and all again impeccably intertwined. there's all of these shadow organizations providing funding that no one really knows about, and again -- as you say, we don't understand with the funding stream is between these nonprofits and the for-profit consulted say that is immersed in recent years. >> and these price tags are massive! right? >> i mean that had raised red flags. >> yes! >> with the irs. the idea at the tax professor who was mentioned in the reporting said, when you have a nonprofit funneling this amount of money, the scale to a for profit that is somehow related or at least in the orbit of the nonprofit, it would rage --

raised red flags. but we also see in the last year, republican party raising red flags about the irs. it's partisan, it doesn't, it seems like not looking into something like this -- is that corruption, and over corruption in response to claims that the irs is somehow acting in a partisan fashion? who knows! but it does seem like the idea of discrediting the aires's may be related to something like this, not allowing them to be viewed as legitimate if they were to investigate this kind of behavior. >> i mean leonard leo reached a 1.6 billion dollar windfall from a single donor in what is likely the biggest single political gifts in u.s. history. he is getting 1.6 billion dollars at the same time that the supreme court, and i'll focus, there is issuing some of the most conservative opinions it ever has, and we shaping american life. now, 1.6 billion dollars is a hefty price tag, but if you think about what they are getting for their money potentially -- i mean how -- do you think that there's gonna be any oversight of the court,

of what leo's role, what is the road forward here questionable, at least on the outside? >> i think every time i appear on the show to talk with you about the supreme court, i always wind up saying that at some point, this is gonna be a really bad day for john jo roberts. the two justice of the united states who more than anyone views himself as the institutional stewart of the court. this is terrible for the court! i mean we've already had over the last year reporting about a campaign to influence supreme court justices, buying buildings across from the court, and now this! if the public was already disenchanted with the court, wondering if something was up with the court maybe this is not the usual arbiter that we thought it was. this is not going to help, but it's not going to make john roberts's job as chief justice, the still with a court in just -- any easier. >> what was expelling dollars, and it's one part of town dollars. melissa murray, thank you very times and i. >> thank. you >> thank you for your felt outrage with me. i need it! [laughter]

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traveled to sarasota florida to visit a new college, the level of goal that is at the center of republican governor ron desantis has war on academic freedom and locus them -- wokeism. i was impressed! new caught is a beautiful place and the students are bright and really, really engaged in the world. i talk a civil of em all from different backgrounds and despite what governor desantis what have you believe, these kids are not going to new college to be indoctrinated in left-ism or to enroll and silly courses like what the government called, or the governor calls zombie studies, whatever that is. they are studying narrow silence and marine biology, and applied mathematics, economics, and finance. these kids, and their parents, picks a new college because it is a good school with great professors, and because it offers a personal medication that is unheard of almost anywhere else, especially for

the low-cost to asian. so now that governor desantis is trying to take over the school and turn it into a conservative religious college, parents and students at a new college are fighting back with everything they've got. they are organizing rallies and they're launching social media campaigns, they know what is at stake here. tomorrow, i'll begin in-depth conversation with the students and the parents of new college about this fight and what they think of governor desantis and his a war on woke. be sure to tune in. that does it for us tonight. we will see you again tomorrow, now this time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell! good evening lawrence. >> good evening alex. el>> none of us thought that the status is doing applies to private schools, right? >> exactly, exactly. >> it's all -- and of course is one child who's at school in this point it's not in a public school. >> no -- so it doesn't apply to anything or anyone that is named status. >> and they are all color where of how we try to create, effectively, two systems of