hi there, everyone.

4:00 in new york. today, monumental breakthrough in the sometimes frustrating pursuit and pace of accountability and justice. the aftermath of the deadly attack on the u.s. capitol. in the 785 days since the insurrection he incited, donald trump has managed to squirm his way through an impeachment, wiggle past the bipartisan congressional investigation, stretching presidential immunity to great effect so far. now the justice department says in a brand-new court filing, such immunity should not shield donald trump from multiple civil suits brought by police officers and members of congress. in that new filing, in the course of urging an appeals court to reject trump's immunity claim, the justice department was very careful to avoid taking a position on whether trump is actually liable for causing the riot. the new action does open new doors of potential

accountability for him. doj's essentially telling the court it does not believe trump can use immunity to avoid civil litigation. consider for a minute what this could mean. officers who were on the front lines during the deadly attack and the innocent people that they courageously protected may soon be able to make the case in front of a jury that trump himself was responsible for whatever trauma they sustained, physical or psychological. and thanks to the good work of the january 6th select committee, the american people are already well aware of what that trauma looked like. >> officer down! >> get him up! >> get him up!

>> they were peaceful people. these were great people. the crowd was unbelievable. have i mentioned the word love? the love in the air, i've never seen anything like it. >> now, in the direct aftermath over the fbi director called an act of domestic terrorism, as republicans look the other way and double down and triple down and protecting trump from impeachment, one of the more surprising voices to emerge on the narrow topic of civil litigation was none other than mitch mcconnell. listen to what he said in february of 2021. >> president trump is still liable for everything he did while in office. as an ordinary citizen. unless the statute of limitations run out, still liable for everything he did while he's in office. didn't get away with anything yet.

yet. we have a criminal justice system in this country. we have civil litigation. and former presidents are not immune from being accountable by either one. >> didn't get away with anything yet. now, as special counsel jack smith goes about his criminal investigation, there are brand-new opportunities for justice and a greater possibility today than there was yesterday. that donald trump may some day pay the price for his actions. it is where we begin today, one of the plaintiffs in the house democrat lawsuit against donald trump congresswoman barbara lee of california joins us, she is also a candidate for u.s. senate in california. also joining us, mary mccord, former deputy assistant attorney general at the justice department's national security division. she was actually among a group of former prosecutors and officials who filed an amicus brief urging the court to reject donald trump's claims of

immunity. and former rnc chairman and msnbc contributor michael steele is here. congresswoman, i start with you, your reaction to today's news. >> thank you, nicolle, nice being with you. the wheels of justice sometimes are slow, but this is one step toward justice. i am the lead plaintiff in the naacp lawsuit and my personal capacity, a lawsuit that intends to hold donald trump, the oath keepers and the proud boys accountable. no one is above the law. i think this decision leads us to that. i was sitting on the floor during this attempted coup, and the members of congress who joined us in this lawsuit, because this was an attack on our democracy. this was an attempted coup. and we're holding these individuals, oath keepers -- trump accountable because once again we're seeking real damages, we're seeking to make

sure that they all are held accountable, and once again, this was a terrible, terrible attack on our democracy. but it also was a terrible attack on those who were in the capitol that day and the trauma and all of the damages and all of the impacts that all of us are still addressing need to be brought forth and we have brought this forth in our lawsuit led by the naacp. this was a good day, again, one step toward justice for those who were trying to destroy our democracy. >> michael steele, mitch mcconnell's position right now, 2024 presidential election, is that he will vote for donald trump if he's the republican nominee. but he did seem to very deliberately point the public and in his capacity he's rarely speaking to anyone other than republicans, donors usually, to

the criminal justice system and civil litigation. do you think he's happy today? >> i think there is that mcconnell smile, you know what that looks like, you know it is probably not recognizable like the one i have right now. but, yeah, i think politically and otherwise i think mitch mcconnell is not -- he's not jumping up and down because it presents some other political party problems inside the party, potentially. but in terms of the position he took on january 7th going forward, even on january of 6th, yeah, i think he's -- i think he's true to his word about accountability, and that he hasn't gotten away with it yet. and i think he said that deliberately and for the reasons that representative lee just laid out. the, you know, the process of justice is a slow process at times. and we do feel that, you know, we don't as citizens have the

upper hand or the advantage in this game that the powerful and wealthy always seem to manage to slip by. but this is a moment where that is not necessarily the case. and i think not just mcconnell, but a lot of folks are looking very closely to what this means. a lot of emphasis has been placed on the criminal side of this. what this says is on the civil side, that's the weakest spot for the oath keepers and trump and others because, hey, you may not be able to make that criminal case, but the civil case where there are damages, real damages, money damages, that can be applied, yeah, that will grab your attention and certainly donald trump is probably not smiling today with that in front of him. >> okay, so mary, let's dive into the legal substance of today's news. let me read from the filing, from doj. quote, no part of a president's

official responsibilities includes the incitement of imminent private violence. by definition, such conduct clearly falls outside the president's constitutional and statutory duties. it likewise falls outside any possible understanding of the president's traditional function of speaking to the public on matters of public concern. as the nation's leader and head of state, the president has an extraordinary power to speak to his fellow citizens and on their behalf. that that traditional function is one of public communication and persuasion. not incitement of imminent private violence. to extend immuity to such incitement would contradict the structure that have informed and justified the doctrine of presidential immunity. it seems look a sweeping and unequivocal posture that doj is taking on not just his speech that day, but the role he was fulfilling.

is that an accurate read and take me inside what you see. >> i actually think that the department of justice was maybe a little bit more limited in that. what they did is they said rather than opine on whether all of the president's conduct was outside of his official duties, outside of what he's required to do under article -- not required, but bound and has a responsibility and duty to do under article 2, rather than try to decide where all of the line drawing might be on what is an official duty and what is outside of official duties, what the department of justice said here, because most of the plaintiff claims and plaintiffs may disagree with this, but the department of justice said because most of the plaintiff claims are based on the president's speech that was -- that the parties have not -- that no one disputed was incitement to violence, and imminent violence with a likelihood of such imminent violence occurred, which, of course it did. but the department of justice said let's import first

amendment principles into this analysis. incitement to imminent lawless activity or violence with a likelihood of such violence occurring is not protected by the first amendment. so the department of justice said if it is not protected by the first amendment, it shouldn't be protected by absolute immunity. and therefore and what they said and i'm going to read it is that a court considering a claim seeking to hold a president liable for violence, allegedly connected with his speech, should deny absolute immunity only if the speech viewed objectively and in context both encouraged imminent private violence and was likely to produce such violence. here, yes, it is encompassing of the case. but they're trying to avoid answering more difficult cases that might come in some other case. >> so let me play the speech and the results because i think one of the lenses through which we examine everything that happens

at doj, you know this better than anybody, is through everything that has been presented to us as a public in large part to the january 6th select committee. here is donald trump telling his supporter what to do that day. >> we're going to walk down to the capitol. and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women and we'll probably not be cheering so much for some of them, because you'll never take back our country with weakness. we fight like hell. and if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore. >> here is what resulted, here are the officers testifying to exactly what those audience members went and did after they heard trump say that. >> i just remember that moment of stepping behind the line and just seeing the absolute war

zone that the -- had become. >> i was crushed by rioters. i could feel myself losing oxygen and recall thinking to myself, this is how i'm going to die, defending this entrance. >> i was aware enough to recognize i was at risked of being stripped of and killed with my own firearm. i was electrocuted again and again and again with a taser. >> directly in front of me a man seized the opportunity of my vulnerability, grabbed my gas mask and used it to beat my head against the door. >> january 6th still isn't over for me. i had to avail myself of multiple counseling sessions from the assistance program and i'm receiving private counseling therapy for the persistent emotional trauma of that day. >> congresswoman, to this day there has not been a nationally televised public apology to any

of those individuals who testified before the country and before congress under oath. to this day, the president's position is that the rioters who conducted the violence after hearing trump say we fight like hell, if you don't fight like hell, you won't have a country anymore, is to consider pardoning all of them. just talk about the case that will be made in court now that this can proceed. >> let me just say, to this day it was the capitol police officers, our brave capitol police heroes who saved our lives. so in our lawsuit, of course, the essence of it is that president trump is not immune from the actions he took that day. what he said, what he directed the insurrectionists, those who wanted to perpetuate a coup d'etat, which it was, attempted

coup on the capitol, on our democracy, the proud boys, the oath keepers, it is important we redress the harm. once again, nicolle, we have to try to put on our gas masks. we were told we had to hit the floor. we barely got out of the chambers before they came in. this was a dangerous moment, not only for individual members of congress and the plaintiffs in our lawsuit, but it was dangerous in terms of our democracy. we prevailed, yes. but believe you me, we almost did not get out of there. and this -- donald trump is not above the law. this lawsuit, we're waiting now for the d.c. circuit to make its decision, but it is very important that we talk about redressing the harm that it has done. not only to us personally, but to our democracy and no one is above the law, not donald trump, nor the oath keepers who we see and what they did, nor the proud boys. and once again, our police officers, our capitol police

officers deserve all the credit. they deserve the credit for saving so many lives that day. and you hear and see now what they are going through. it is a moral disgrace. and we're going it keep on until we win this lawsuit. i think it is in the country's best interests to see there are members of congress and personal capacities who are going to continue this fight until justice is done. >> can we put some of the pictures back up. michael steele, we can't lose track of the today story, right? the today threat is that today, because kevin mccarthy kept a promise to tucker carlson who loathes him, today, today tucker carlson's producers are pouring through the footage of this day, which might be one of the most photographed and longest crime scenes ever to be broadcast on television anywhere. you can find an example, either

longer or more photographed. but today the members of congress who help plan the coup, the 19 in the roosevelt room, all of them according to testimony, again, under oath, sought pardons, today, they're power brokers, they were even by mccarthy's own telling nuts and fringy, he said they needed to be dealt with, they might pose a threat to do other members of the body. they now sort of hold the leash that permits kevin mccarthy to conduct his business with the title of speaker, but not rally the power of the speaker. so, today, today the people in that chamber who helped plan this crime are the power brokers in the house of representatives. >> and they are the power brokers and have the power because he gave it to them.

because the seat was more important than the principle. and the idea that what we're witnessing here was somehow he's going to get this video, give it to tucker carlson and what is he going to tell us? what is he going to tell us about what we're witnessing here? because this -- that's the video. this is the insurrection. so, the idea they want to take snippets and pieces and create a new narrative to tell a bigger, bolder lie about the thing that we all saw on and experienced ourselves, it goes to the heart of undermining this democracy. and to have the speaker of the house just because he made a promise, he made a promise, to a guy who holds up victor orbon and vladimir putin as his

standard bearer, tucker carlson, that's the guy he made a promise to? and what does he think is going to come from that promise? and how does he think the country is going to respond when this information is distorted and lies are told about the very videos and the very experiences of the men and women who tried to defend that capitol. the members of congress who you see here ducking for cover, some of those same power brokers were hiding under desks from the very people that they now cheer, that they call martyrs. so, you know, this is the space that we have invited into our body politic and it goes back to what i said going into the election, you give these guys the power, what do you think they're going to do with it? i don't know why -- why are we so shocked and appalled at kevin's behavior?

because this is what you get when you deal with people like that. so, you know, we got another election coming up. maybe y'all can fix it in '24, but between now and then, what do you think is going to happen? what is life going to be like for representative barbara lee in that house with people who have power that they should not have? >> all the questions that i grapple with as well. mary, i know doj is completely compartmentalized and this filing today is from the civil division, but is there anything to deduce about doj's views about trump's conduct? you have a federal judge who says the speech on the ellipse was not part of his official duties, you got another federal judge who said a long time ago it is more likely than not that he and eastman likely committed felonies. is that message received inside doj or is this a narrow filing? >> well, like i said, they're

trying to, you know, give the court a way out by importing first amendment context into this particular case. this is a case which has been already argued in the d.c. circuit court of appeals, the d.c. circuit then invited the views of the department of justice on this question, and this is still at a very early stage in the case. it is not like the appeal came after the end of the case. the appeal came at the very beginning when the lower court denied immunity. so they're trying to file something that addresses just this case, and doesn't create a whole lot of other precedent for other cases. but having said that, i think that the views -- i think i can expect that the views of my former colleagues and others at the department of justice probably mirror those that appear not only in this filing, but also in the amicus brief that was filed in this very case by a number of former department of justice and white house officials. and i will say a very bipartisan group. many of them serving in very high levels, high capacities and

republican administrations who all felt very strongly that the conduct of president trump not just those statements that were inciting violence, on january 6th and the days before january 6th, but his entire, you know, conspiracy to undermine and the will of the people and to, you know, pressure vice president pence, pressure secretary of state raffensperger, you know, pressure for the state legislatures to take back their votes and try to send other electoral sites, all of that, we argued was outside the president's article 2 powers and outside his official duties and he should not receive absolute immunity for that. when you get a bipartisan group of people from the department of justice, and that no person is totally above the law. >> it is a really important development. thank you for helping us understand it. mary and michael, stick around.

congresswoman barbara lee, thank you for starting us off today and spending some time with us. news breaking this morning of a truly terrifying plot to assassinate michigan attorney general dana nessel and jewish leaders in that state, underscoring the pervasive threat of extremism in our country. plus, incredible new details on what happened inside fox news as their host and guests peddled donald trump's big lie and how dominion tried over and over and over and over, 3600 times, to get fox to stop spreading those lies and conspiracies about voting machines. and later in the program, two georgia election workers whose lives were turned upside down by donald trump's lies and conspiracies, they're now fighting back in court, how their case could help all of us get to the bottom of the trump coup plot. all those stories and more when

"deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. e best hugs! we're just passing through on our way to the jazz jamboree. [ imitates trumpet playing ] and we wanted to thank america's number-one motorcycle insurer -for saving us money. -thank you. [ laughs ] mara, your parents are -- exactly like me? i know, right? well, cherish your friends and loved ones. let's roll, daddio! let's boogie-woogie!

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truly harrowing news today from michigan's attorney general dana nessel who said this morning the fbi informed her she was a target of a, quote, heavily armed man who threatened to kill her along with jewish members of the michigan state government. an affidavit from the fbi lays out a litany of truly terrifying details. the suspect had three handguns, a 12 gauge shotgun, two hunting rifles, one of which is a military style weapon. the suspect made threats on

twitter back in mid-february. he is right now in police custody. joining our coverage, vice president of the antidefamation league's center on extremism orrin segal, mary mccord and michael steele are still with us. i don't think a week has passed, i don't think the dust has settled for one week on the new report on extremism and this plot is in the news. your reaction. >> so, first, i want to acknowledge the efforts of federal and state law enforcement in getting ahead of a potential tragedy. we certainly have seen that gun violence in particular remains a serious concern and we have also seen the combination of antigovernment conspiracies, covid conspiracies, mixed with anti-semitism and how those animate people to action around the country. it seems like that's the case here as well. and let's not forget we're just

a few weeks out from shootings in los angeles in which jewish people were shot, because of the belief that they had brought the covid epidemic, if you will, to the united states. conspiracies have actual real world consequences, the ability to spread them online, and more and more we're seeing how anti-semitism is being interpreted as part of that antigovernment conspiracy. >> orrin, we have in full view the showcasing or at least refusal to publicly condemn these comments with the highest levels of the country's two political parties and an intended target in the other party. how do you fix the length between easy access to guns and the threat of extremism violence without fixing the green lighting of this rhetoric in one of the country's two political

parties? >> so, there is no, you know, silver bullet for lack of a better term in terms of solving the problem of people wanting to commit violence against our elected officials or institutions. but we know that part of the way to address those issues is to stop normalizing the types of narratives and discussions that we know people, you know, use in order to motivate them to action. so elected officials, influencers, those that actually, you know, provide legitimacy to ideas because of their position in the public need to be called out when they are actually making it easier for people to believe narratives that lead to violence. but, you know, again, this is not about pointing to one side of the aisle or the other. we have to have just a common shared understanding that whether it is anti-semitism or vast conspiracies that animate

the fantasies of extremists and others, they can't go unchallenged. and that's where, you know, honest people have an opportunity to actually use their voice to speak out. eventually i believe they will be heard. >> respectfully honest people are in short order in only one of the two parties. did you collect the reaction today and was there robust condemnation of the plot from the right and the left? was it equal? >> i have not done a study like that, but we have to understand that extremism is not the sole domain of any one political or ideological movement. that being said, we are very clear about what our data shows, that in the last ten years, for example, when you look at extremist-related murders in this country, 75% have been carried out by right wing extremists. but, again, i think it is important to understand that not all plots to attack, you know,

attorneys general or governors are necessarily at the hands of an extremist. jury is out as to what motivated this particular individual. but we do know conspiracy about covid, anti-semitism, which frankly come from all angles, animate people to action as well. and frankly condemning it from all sides, it shouldn't be a challenge, it shouldn't be something somebody has to be convinced of. it should be a standard reaction. and i agree with you it is not. >> michael steele, orrin is being diplomatic. i asked jonathan greenblatt once if it would be helpful if mitch mcconnell condemned the rantings, anti-semitic rantings and associations of donald trump, and what he said on this program was if mitch mcconnell won't condemn racist attacks against his own wife, we shouldn't hold our breath. the truth, maybe it is easier for former republicans to tell the truth about its own party is there is not high level condemnation of anti-semitism in

the republican party anymore, and it is one of many dramatic shifts on the right. where do you place the odds that a turn is imminent? >> turn towards what? >> toward condemning -- >> condemning? >> yeah. >> yeah. the fact i had to ask you to clarify -- >> answers itself. >> yeah. no, there's no incentive to do that. we have taken the incentives out for good behavior. we have taken the incentive out of the system for doing the right thing. and i think, listen, correct me if i'm off track here, but i took what you just said and i can extrapolate it more broadly, because you're absolutely right, a lot of the mistakes that we make is that we want to pigeon hole this conversation to one

particular party, a conservative hard right maga, but it is america. ask yourself this, if god forbid one of our elected officials is assassinated, is shot in our home or taking kids to school, all right, what do you think the reaction of the country is going to be? i mean, because the only thing i have to put up as a comparative analysis is how many mass shootings have we had since january? and what has been the collective reaction of the country to that? we wax poetic and we do the mea culpas and oh, my god, and thoughts and prayers, but there is no incentive to do anything. so even when it shocks the conscience as something like this would obviously do, yeah. there is no incentive to actually go out and start addressing exactly the point

that orrin and the antidefamation league and others are -- they're not waving red flags, they're plastering them in front of our faces saying, folks, we need to get in front of this before something awful happens. and there is no incentive in our body politic because that's where this has to come from to do anything. and i think even upon the death of one of their own, to your point, nicolle, if the man is not going to defend his wife when a racist slur is said about him, or any other politician whose wives and family members have been slandered, what makes you think they're going to do something when somebody else who they're not related to gets harmed? >> yeah, i want to come back to the data. so the data says that this is from the new domestic terrorism findings yesterday from the government accountability office, the gao, all but eight states across the country experienced at least one incident of domestic terrorism

in the last ten years. over the last ten years, domestic terrorism related investigations have grown by 357%. orrin's report that we talked about last time he was here says this, all the extremist related murders in 2022 were committed by right wing extremists of various kinds who typically commit most such killings each year, only occasionally responsible for all of them. the last time that occurred was in 2012. so at the same time the numbers are surging to the effect of 355% in a ten-year period, we have a market share being carried out according to the adl by, quote, right wing extremists of various kinds. >> yeah. i think a lot of people tend to think of terrorism even still as islamic extremist terrorism. they think of 9/11. the fact is except for one brief period after the pulse nightclub shooting in orlando several

years ago, except for one brief period the lethality of domestically motivated extremist violence, far right extremism, the lethality has been greater for decades. a lot of people don't recognize that. i think i would really foot stomp what orrin said about normalizing violence and what michael said about there being no incentives for good behavior. that's not just a problem that our elected officials have, and people in positions of power across the country, it is also exacerbated by social media. just last week the supreme court heard arguments about whether internet platforms should continue to be immune from their algorithmic targeted recommendations and those recommendations and studies into what gets people sucked into rabbit holes, what gets them to spend more and more on time on social media generating more and

more ad revenue is divisive and polarizing conduct. those algorithms feed more and more of that device of and polarizing conduct and i would be shocked if we do not end up learning that this man, who threatened attorney general dana nessel in michigan and who was stockpiling weapons to potentially launch an attack on her and others, i will be shocked if we don't learn that there wasn't some aspect of radicalization over the internet. because in every case that i dealt with in an international terrorism case, there was radicalization over social media. people getting sucked in and that's what -- that's a profit motivated strategy of media companies that is eating into the lack of incentive for good behavior and the normalization of domestic violence. >> and it is a conversation for another day, but we do treat that differently, even internet content.

orrin, we will -- i don't know if this is a good thing or bad thing, but we'll continue to need your expertise. thank you for being here today. michael steele and mary mccord, thank you as well. when we come back, how an all hands on deck effort by dominion to get fox news to stop, even after they started spreading lies to stop doing that, how that fell on deaf ears and why that matters so much in the case dominion is making against fox news in court. that's next. making against fox news in court. that's next. 2 hours. do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. most common side effects were nausea and tiredness. ask about ubrelvy, the anytime, anywhere migraine medicine. ♪ i like to move it, move it ♪ ♪ you like to... move it ♪ we're reinventing our network. ♪ ♪

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even if fox could argue that at the beginning, when it first started putting giuliani and powell on the air it didn't know what they were saying was false, after all they were working for the president, and the president was making these allegations, and these -- the people, but as time went on and dominion again and again and again provided fox with information signaturing and suggesting and strongly indicating a lot of what giuliani and powell were saying was false, they continued to put them on the air, knowing what they were going to say. >> the first amendment expert lee levine zeroing in on what promises to be a crucial battle line in the defamation lawsuit against fox news. it goes right to the heart of

what fox knew and when it knew it. viewers of this program will remember that while we were on the air on monday, a deluge of seemingly damning evidence was released, texts and emails from the likes of rupert murdoch and others showing how behind the scenes fox news anchors and executives openly acknowledged, even laughed about how crazy the election fraud claims were, while simultaneously broadcasting those lies to their millions and millions of viewers over and over and over again. and as levine pointed out yesterday, while that was happening, dominion was bombarding fox and its producers and its anchors and its executives with an all points bulletin that it alerted them, even if they didn't know before, as soon as the false segments aired, alerted them in the moment that they were false. this is a section of the dominion brief titled, quote,

fox ignores dominion's massive effort to convince fox to stop airing the lies. quote, dominion sent 3,682 emails to fox recipients, which were then widely circulated within fox. dominion put their fact sheets spelling out the lies being broadcast on fox on blast. one fox news executive said it felt like he, quote, had dominion's emails tattooed on my body. tattooed on his body. he knew them, he saw them, and yet fox news continued airing the lies about dominion. joining us now, npr news media correspondent david fulcom and rana anderson jones is here, a former clerk for supreme court justice sandra day o'connor, first amendment scholar.

take us threw how you see this nero issue of all the ways to correct the record in the moment, and then through the broader issue that lee also mentioned yesterday that fox didn't just ignore them, they rebroadcast specific broadcasts after being informed they were lies. >> yes. this goes very much to the core of the constitutional question in this case. the constitutional bar is incredibly high here, the first amendment protects freedom of speech and freedom of the press and so the rule here isn't just that dominion has to show that fox was sloppy or that it was inaccurate, or that partisan, the rule here is that fox has to show essentially -- dominion has to show that fox told a deliberate lie, it showed reckless disregard for the truth. how you show you knew this was false and you moved ahead with it anyway is an incredibly

difficult barrier, but one tool that you might use for doing that is to say, we know that you knew this was false, because we ourselves told you. and that's a piece of what's happening here. dominion is noting the 3600 plus emails emphasizing the truth of the matter in this situation, and also powerfully asserts in its brief, in the motion for summary judgment it filed last week, that 19 of the 20 statements that dominion is suing over were broadcast after dominion had alerted fox to the falsity of the wild accusations and had pointed them in the direction of accurate information on the question. and that's going to be key in some respects to the question of what fox knew and whether it moved ahead with deliberateness,

whether it told a falsity, not out of sloppiness or out of news gathering, but out of -- the term -- the legal term is actual malice, it new it was false and moved ahead anyway. >> david, it is such an important legal distinction because i think if you covered the story, right, of donald trump's post election period, it is clouded with all sorts of bad actors, mcconnell and mcarthur do nothing. they'll let him cry it out. the tweets for the extremists go out and there is a call unanswered. the horrific violence on the th and fox's efforts to get reporters to come together and make a joint statement saying that none of this is true. those are horrific fact patterns for a brand that calls itself a news network. but the real legal whopper seems to be this potentially less sexy conduct that tony and others

were engaged in from go to send 3,682 messages and to guarantee their receipt by the likes of dana perino and others at the network. and their circulation within the network up and down the chain of command. talk about that sort of meticulous fact checking work and its role in the legal phase of this story. >> well, you're seeing meticulous fact checking by dominion here as substantiated from the evidence we have seen so far and a lot more will come spilling out in ensuing days from now. what fox seemed to do is turn away, avert its gaze for fact checking and not engage with dominion, which sent the thousands of the emails, some of them automated to as many email addresses they could get.

it tells you the message was received loud and clear and yet fox, the internal emails and communications seemed to show figures within fox talking about whether there is a line they can skirt without crossing it. at one point, the very senior fox court official, higher up in the the hierarchy talking about sean hannity coming close to a line that is going too far. they acknowledge there should be limits, but don't seem ever to address them. it takes a very long time, weeks and weeks to decide that people like sidney powell who are channeling somebody who had written a memo on electoral fraud that the author of the memo herself called pretty whack a doodle. she should be allowed to be on the air after having shared that memo with maria bartiromo, lou dobbs and the producer, bartiromo received it from the host herself. these are not what you would call protective of the brand if you identify that as a news

organization. whether or not a point of view news organization. they're trying to figure out how to justify putting this on air as the total emphasis being revealed in those documents that we read on monday underscore what we had been shown earlier in this case is that the desires to hold on to those viewers, keep the profits coming, murdoch confirmed that. he was asked by an attorney for dominion, it is not red or blue, it is green, he confirmed that according to the filings we read. >> we're on the eve, maybe not today, but imminently of seeing more of the evidence that dominion gathered and the case that fox is potentially willing to defend itself. i want to push on this, open door, what amounts to actual malice and if it is this repeated acknowledgement that you use the word whack a doodle in saying crazy, i want to push on whether they knew how crazy these things were and did them anyway, whether that furthers

dominion's case. i have to sneak in a quick break. they're not going anywhere. stay with us. break. they're not going anywhere stay with us

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>> well, this is one of most powerful claims of actual malice we have seen in a major media case, and in part this is because of the narrative arc that dominion has woven here. it is not just a set of internal statements saying things like this is not whack a doodle or a lie, but also this additional piece of the story line that involves memos and internal emails and text messages, giving them motive for doing so, saying we need to tack in this direction in order to keep trump supporter who are gravitating to other outlets in the right wing media ecosystem that are more willing to engage in this election denialism. coupled together to make for a pretty powerful story to tell to a jury about knowing falsity or reckless disregard for the

truth. >> do you pick up anything you're reporting that there is any mounting alarm as these disclosures come out in the filings? >> oh, i think they recognize this is a terrible moment for them. and it is self-inflicted. but this is a deeply damaging for fox when it tries to present itself as credible to the outward basic world, to other institutions. fox likes to see itself as part of a larger hole of the media and deserving the respect under the first amendment. to its viewers, it is trying to communicate a different message, we understand you, we're apart from them and we're giving you the true unfiltered facts. part of the problem on this is fox's arguing that two things, one, they're saying that dominion is going to have to prove that folks really close to the statements that were aired are going to be the ones that you have to prove had motivation and knowledge and secondly, they're going to say it will be damaging for all of the press, lawyers like the ones we heard today are saying, different

standard here because the facts are so different. >> we will continue to watch and can't do it without both of your expertise. so thank you so much. thank you. a quick break for us. when we come back, georgia poll worker ruby freeman once said she had lost her name and her reputation due to the lies being peddled about her by rudy giuliani and donald trump. now she and her daughter are on what one reporter calls a no limits fact-finding mission with giuliani and trump in their sights. stay with us. giuliani and trump in their sights stay with us i've never been healthier. shingles doesn't care. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome

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all because of lies. >> i lost my name. i lost my reputation. i've lost my sense of security. all because a group of people starting with number 45 and his ally, rudy giuliani, decided to scapegoat me and my daughter shaye, to push their own lies about how the presidential election was stolen. >> hi again, everyone. 5:00 in new york. the testimonies of fulton county georgia poll workers ruby freeman and her daughter shaye moss were emotional gut punches during the january 6th select committee's series of public hearings. firsthand, harrowing, compelling accounts of public servants, people who make our elections possible, facing unimaginable harassment and abuse following the 2020 election, all for one

reason. because twice impeached disgraced ex-president and his lawyer rudy giuliani targeted them with lies and falsely blamed them for trump's loss in georgia. brand-new reporting finds that yesterday giuliani testified in their defamation suit against him. it is a case which the daily beast reports they are turning into a no limits fact-finding mission that is according to an undisclosed letter from their attorneys reviewed exclusively by the daily beast. this new reporting notes that freeman and moss are picking up where the 1/6 select committee left off, since when questioned by congressional investigators about his contacts with trump, giuliani invokes attorney/client privilege. in their january 13th letter, the attorneys tell giuliani's defense lawyer his objections to the january 6th committee's questions about interactions with trump were improper, warning that they intend to bulldoze right over them.

moss and freeman provide a remarkable view into the massive human toll, the very real human consequences of the lie told by trump and giuliani. giuliani and trump lied over and over again about these two women, saying that they specifically and by name illegally moved suitcases of fake ballots when they served as election workers in georgia. that lie was debunked over and over again, including by federal investigators, and georgia election officials. giuliani falsely claimed that surveillance video of moss and freeman at the polling places showed them committing voter fraud, it did not. it didn't matter. that video had circulated and right wing media and the ex-president showcased it at one of his rallies. when it came to that infamous call, with georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger, trump mentions ruby freeman by name 18 times. moss and her mom as a result of the lies faced a barrage of

harassment and death threats. they had people showing up at their doors. they no longer feel safe doing anything in public. all for just doing their jobs. >> earlier in the day, the ruby freeman and shaye freeman moss and one gentleman quite obviously surreptitiously passing around -- it is obvious to anyone who is a criminal investigator or prosecutor they are engaged in surreptitious illegal activity, again, that day. >> what was your mom actually handing you on that video? >> a ginger mint. >> a ginger mint. important to know at this point in the program that thanks to dominion we know that fox news executives at the highest levels worried that ruby was drinking too much, but i digress. the latest in shaye moss and ruby freeman's fight for

accountability is where we begin with our favorite reporters and friends. correspondent tia mitchell is here, also nyu law professor melissa murray is back, and eddie glide is here, the chair of the department of african american studies at princeton university. melissa and eddie are msnbc contributors. i want to show you, not that i need to do this here on this program, but i am cognizant of the need to always have the fact check and when it can come from a senior life long republican official, i like to do that. this is acting deputy attorney general richard donoghue's january 6th testimony. >> i said, okay, well, with regard to georgia, we looked at the tape, interviewed the witnesses, there is no suitcase. the president kept fixating on this suitcase that supposedly had fraudulent ballots and the suitcase was rolled out from under the table, and i said, no, sir, there is no suitcase, you can watch that video over and over, there is no suitcase, there is a wheeled bin where they carry the ballots, and

that's just how they move ballots around that facility. there is nothing suspicious about that at all. >> so there is more. this is republican secretary of state brad raffensperger talking about this video. this is from the january 2nd call with trump. >> you're talking about the state video and i think it is extremely unfortunate that rudy giuliani or his people, they slice and diced that video and took it out of context so the next day we brought in wsdv tv and let them see the full run of tape and what you'll see, events that transpired are nowhere near what was projected by -- >> well, where -- >> i sometimes skip over the two levels of disgrace. but let's just sit here for a minute. it is not normal for public servant paid by the taxpayers to have to run down rudy giuliani

and donald trump's lunatic ideas. we used department of justice to investigate fraudulent claims of election fraud that chris krebs, who was also a life long republican, had already declared was the most, quote, secure election in u.s. history. brad raffensperger also did that. i think we lose the part of the plot sometimes. these were public servants, investigating donald trump and rudy giuliani's delusions in the weeks after an election that had been declared, again, quote, the most secured election in america's history by another life-long republican. and as this is going on, shaye moss and ruby freeman's lives are turned upside down. take us through your analysis of the strength of their case. >> well, they already prevailed at the motion to dismiss stage, that's the place where the defendant can ask the court to just dismiss the claims because the plaintiff has not adequately pleaded a claim upon which

release can be granted. judge howell, in d.c., said that was not the case, that all three claims were well said and could proceed to discovery. what happened yesterday was rudy giuliani sat on a new york law firm for deposition by the lawyers for the two women and the whole point of the deposition is to begin to get at some of that information to begin to deduce evidence that their claims are actually correct, that they were defamed by rudy giuliani in the run-up to january 6th and the aftermath of the election itself. >> so, tia, let me just bring folks back to what happened as a result of these lies. this is the 911 call we have never played on this program. this is ruby. >> i've been having terroristic threats, harassing phone calls, and emails and i made a police report yesterday. and last night about ten minutes after 9:00, somebody was banging on the door and now somebody is banging on the door.

he's screaming. he's still bamming on the door. >> okay. >> he's still bamming on the door. lord jesus, where's the police? >> they're on their way, ma'am. >> oh, god. >> tia, this is -- this is another night in donald trump's america. what is the feeling in georgia about ruby freeman and shaye moss? >> well, i think the sentiment amongst most georgians, maybe all georgians except for those far right maga trump loyalists are that they're public servants, that they did not deserve the treatment and that is, you know, not only is it shameful what they had to go through individually, but the fact that these types of threats and experiences have caused

people to not want to be poll workers, created a strain on election systems as experienced poll workers decide they don't want to continue doing the job and making it difficult to recruit replacements for those poll workers, that's creating a lot of concern in georgia and a lot of other states that what ruby freeman and shaye moss experienced are quite frankly scaring people off for wanting to do this public service. >> so, that is the point, right? because to trump, ruby freeman and shaye moss don't matter, they have already won. they have scared other ruby freemans and shaye mosses away from wanting to do this job, with which our elections don't happen, they don't work. >> well, this is what makes what they're doing so important. we can talk about them breaking through the wall, doing things

that the january 6th committee couldn't do, we could talk about them holding trump and giuliani accountable. what is happening here on a certain level, nicolle, is that everyday ordinary people, ruby freeman and shaye moss who were terrorized, who could go away, hide, try in some way to piece together their lives again, in light of what they experienced have decided to sue. to step forward, to be in the public limelight again. and think about this in the historical context of black people and voting, the sharecroppers in mississippi or georgia who knew they could lose their job, they could lose their plot of land and they still risked it. ruby freeman and shaye moss stand in that tradition. they could easily kind of just give up, just hide, i don't want to do anything. but they pursued this suit and now they can breakthrough the wall and ordinary people, not lawyers, not politicians, but

ordinary people can hold these thugs accountable. >> i come back to this question all the time and i'll put it to you today, they're the victims of a crime, it would appear. and i got more sound of what happened to them and their view because of donald trump, but i'll play it in a second, but i know fulton county has been investigating it. where do you think doj is in investigating these crimes? >> so, again, the crimes that were done to these two poll workers are part of the broader investigation of what happened in the aftermath of the election leading up to january 6th. make no mistake about it, they are intertwined. they're two distinct sets of events, but they relate to each other in important ways. it is all part of the -- that jack smith now as he reconsiders what is going on and where donald trump fits in with all of

this. it is interesting that the state of georgia or state of atlanta or state and local prosecutors have couldn't forward to file cases on behalf of these women that they are instead pursuing civil claims independently. that's obviously more of a burden on them to bring the suits to find representation and to mount the costs of a lawsuit and discovery and all of that. it would be interesting to see if there was a commitant criminal suit that would be lodged by the state against giuliani and others in their orbit for what they did to these women during that period. >> so, tia, here is testimony i think seared in the minds of everyone watching it live. ruby freeman's testimony on what her life is like now. >> there is nowhere i feel safe, nowhere. do you know how it feels to have the president of the united states target you? the president of the united

states is supposed to represent every american. not to target one. but he targeted me, lady ruby, a small business owner, a mother, a proud american citizen, who stands up to help fulton county run an election in the middle of the pandemic. >> the last line too, i watched that so many times, but what is happening in the middle of the pandemic. there were questions about whether we could pull this off as a country and the only reason we did and the only reason that three recounts of georgia's election results done by life long republicans and trump supporters that found zero evidence of fraud is because ruby freeman and her daughter shaye moss showed up. >> right. and quite frankly as you covered in this segment, they ended up being criticized by the former president and his allies for

literally doing their jobs and they created a conspiracy theory about video of moss and freeman doing their job, they were told that, you know, at one point it was late in the night and they thought they and the other poll workers were packing up and their bosses said, no, keep working. keep counting. so they pulled the ballots back out to work later into the night. and that action of them staying on more hours, late at night, instead of going home, was then weaponized against them in this way. and, again, it just kind of highlights the peril of the big lie, and it highlights as you mentioned the human impact of that, probably no -- there ray lot of election worker around the country that been impacted in this way, but i think shaye moss and ruby freeman have become the poster children for that type of abuse.

>> i want to ask you a legal question. we have been covering the filings in the fox news dominion voting system defamation suit. and some of what is viewed as strong evidence and i welcome you to disagree if you disagree is the knowing and willful lying to the viewers, they were in receipt of 3,682 communications from dominion before, during and after the lies were broadcast. how do those pieces of sound factor into the strength of their case, mr. donahue, the deputy acting attorney general saying i investigated it, which again is wholly inappropriate and unethical for doj to do that in the first place, but that said, doj investigated trump's lunatic claims and found zero evidence, brad raffensperger too, he found zero evidence and communicated that to trump and rudy. how did that strengthen their case. >> it may strengthen it, it may

be relevant, but what they need to deduce in the fact finding stage is to develop evident that goes to the state of mind of those who were making the defamatory statements. that goes to rudy powell, rudy giuliani, sidney powell and donald trump himself. it would be essentially the analog of the rupert murdoch deposition that was so explosive, just a few days ago in the dominion versus fox litigation. the whole idea is to be able to show that those speaking knew what they were saying was not true and they said it anyway. >> one of the bets that trump and rudy and all these folks make is that by stomping on the -- what they view as the voiceless, that the behavior continues. one of the perils in my personal opinion of zero accountability in terms of the federal

government seeing any crimes here in this space, and they may ultimately, it may be part of what jack smith is doing, jack smith is maybe doing a whole lot and i hope he is, but one of the reasons that it keeps happening is because to donald trump, the voiceless remain voiceless. nothing happens. there is no consequence for destroying the lives of shaye moss and ruby freeman. what is your view on the stakes of getting this right? >> i think our way of life. the substance of the rule of law. it feels like we're in a guilded age where those who are in power, those who have money aren't held to account. the citizens of east palestine, ohio, feel, that's what we seem to see when bannon has been held in contempt and hasn't done a day in court, day in jail. peter navarnavarro, who have be

held into account in some way. what is at stake is our way of life and what is the poetic part about this, i think, nicolle, is that everyday ordinary people, whether it is ruby freeman and shaye moss or the police officers, they need -- they are exercising their agency and trying to hold them to account. and as always, everyday ordinary people are the salvation for our democracy. they always have been, they always will be. >> all that is true. but the reason, i mean, one of the reasons is this massive gaffe, this massive delay, there has been no response from federal law enforcement, nobody has held the perpetrators of the crimes committed against officer scanle or dunn or hodges or edwards or shaye moss or ruby freeman, nobody has sought to hold any of them accountable in any outward facing manner today. so, i guess that's why we're

here and we'll keep watching. tia mitchell, thank you for starting us off. melissa and eddie, stick around. when we come back, kellyanne conway met with prosecutors from the manhattan d.a.'s office today, the latest finding that prosecutors in new york are still intent in stepping up their investigation into the twice impeached disgraced ex-presidential and hush money payment made to stormy daniels. later in the house, the house ethics committee opens an investigation into truth challenge, that seems generous. republican congressman george santos, what that could mean for his future in the house and the damage he's already done to the republican party. and why hundreds of school girls in iran are falling ill. officials suspect they have been poisoned. we will try to make sense of the horrors. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. house"

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i had said before and i stand by it, i believe we're on the tarmac and i believe that rather imminently we're going to have takeoff and eventually since we're going on transportation mediums here, we will be arriving at our destination. >> you think that's an indictment of donald j. trump? >> that's the destination. >> that was michael cohen here on this very program last month on what he sees as an intensifying criminal investigation by the manhattan d.a. into the ex-president's role in that 2016 hush money payment to stormy daniels.

cohen would know, he's now met with prosecutors 17 times. now we're learning more about what he describes as takeoffs. "the new york times" reports that kellyanne conway was spotted walking into the d.a.'s office yesterday, the only other person with cohen's level of access to trump or level of involvement in the hush money payment itself. she was there to sit down with prosecutors and as cohen says she would know. it was conway, who he says, he alerted after making the payment to stormy daniels on trump's behalf. so minor role in the transaction, but potentially crucial in bolstering the velocity and strength of cohen's testimony. publicly, conway has denied knowing about the payment as trump's campaign manager at the time, even though she said, quote, a lot crossed my desk, end quote. we're back with melissa murray and eddie. a good defense in a hush money

scheme under investigation? >> well, it is something you would say if you are worried that perhaps you have been implicated in a broader scheme to defraud or to violate election laws, for example, and as she puts it, there are a lot of papers crossing her desk and she may have used it but not understood the gravity of what she was signing or reviewing. michael cohen clears this with kelly conway and the question she's answering now with prosecutors and before the grand jury is just exactly what did she know and did she understand the nature of it. >> there is no indication that kellyanne conway is herself in any trouble for the hush money scheme. but it does seem like she could potentially be important to alvin bragg, is that accurate, melissa? >> exactly right.

we don't know what the nature of her involvement in this investigation is, it is not clear that she is the subject of an investigation herself. it is likely that she is just there to corroborate be the statements that michael cohen has already made. she may also be in a position perhaps to provide some insight into what the former president was thinking and whether or not he had knowledge of these payments or the falsification of those records. so, she is a sort of crucial insider who could provide a lot of information on how all of this worked and how it all sort of processed through the campaign administration. >> so, there is some really specific detail with which michael cohen remembers something that kellyanne conway said a lot of things crossed my desk, that's her quote. let me read this from cohen's book, on october 27th, i wired $130,000 to the trust account of keith davidson and i returned the signed nda the following day. i called trump to confirm the transaction was completed and

the documentation in place, he didn't take my call. obviously a very bad sign in hindsight. instead, my old pal kellyanne conway from the trump world called and said she would pass along the good news. rorn to remember, i think what he's referencing is that he knows her because she at one point lived in trump world tower and was on the board and they got involved in that manner. but what is the potential importance of kellyanne conway relaying or testifying to telling trump what she described as, quote, the good news? >> again, a big part of this potential charge against the president will turn on whether or not he was involved in the falsification of these records. there is a whole question of whether or not he was even involved, if he knew about it, but what really needs to happen for this to be charged as a felony is that it was not only falsified, just as a matter of

hiding the business records, but also in furtherance of a second crime, likely something related to the election. so, she may have knowledge in passing it along to her former boss as to whoo it was being used for and whether or not -- i imagine her communications with the prosecutors or even testimony before the grand jury, if that's what's happening, is likely related to some of those questions. >> so, eddie, there is not much more than tea leaves to read in terms of alvin bragg's once dead and very much alive investigation into donald trump. but as far as tea leaves go, bringing in someone that michael cohen writes about in his book as being in receipt of the information, the eagle has landed version of hush money payments being made to an adult film actress seems like a sign that bragg is still taking all of cohen's testimony very seriously and looking for ways to bolster it potentially in front of the grand jury. how do you see, again, this sort

of cycle that -- all we know is the public facing, i will always cop to what i know i don't know, but bragg is not just accelerating in the pace with which he has cohen down there, he's clearly widening this out of people who would it would appear could testify to the same events. >> well, with the legal issues to the genius of melissa, from a lay person's point of view, nicolle, it looks as if either he's about to bring it home to echo michael cohen in this regard. but we're political minded, you know, i keep thinking about how do we -- how do we think about this moment, nicolle, in light of what seems to be a ramping of political seasons for the 2024 campaign? what do we make of these folks bringing these cases, you know, getting closer and closer, ramping up, getting closer and closer against the backdrop of

republican primary of the presidential election? and there going back to the last segment, there is going to be a question of people's gut, do they have the courage to pursue this in the midst of an intensifying presidential election campaign? so that's what i'm thinking about from a lay person's point of view, looks like they're about to bring it home, they're bringing it home against the backdrop of an intensified political season. >> on that space/time continuum, it makes questions about the delay, i think all the more burning for us as a public. why did it take them until this very, very hot prepolitical season moment to be as michael cohen has now sort of beaten this transportation idiom into the ground on the runway. melissa and eddie, thank you for spending so much time with us today. we're grateful to both of you. ahead for us, the house ethics committee has opened an investigation into the lies and falsehoods told by republican congressman george santos.

where that investigation could take us after the break. where that investigation could take us after the break. when our daughter and her kids moved in with us... our bargain detergent couldn't keep up. turns out it's mostly water. so, we switched back to tide. one wash, stains are gone. [daughter] slurping don't pay for water. pay for clean. it's got to be tide.

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this house financial disclosures, violated federal conflict of interest laws or engaged in other unlawful activity during his 2022 congressional campaign. he will also examine an allegation of sexual misconduct from a perspective congressional aide who briefly worked in his office. he tweeted he was fully cooperating with the investigation and would not comment further. let's bring in nbc news capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles. rarely do you get someone in the republican caucus that even matt gaetz thinks should be investigated by the house ethics committee, but here we are. >> reporter: that's right, nicolle. it is important to point out the house ethics committee, while republicans are in the majority, it is the one committee in the house of representatives that is equally represented by both republicans and democrats. and it is also one of the few committees where rarely anything will leak out over the course of an investigation. so it is notable that they were so public with the announcement of this subcommittee that is

going to be specifically tasked with investigating george santos and that theyrevealed the long list of potential allegations they're looking into. it is no doubt the most serious we have seen in this situation with george santos. it represents the most trouble that he is facing up until this point. because the committee could recommend a wide range of penalties if they find wrongdoing, they could refer any criminal conduct that they find to the department of justice, and they could recommend that he be expelled from congress or face a heavy round of fines. so this is a very serious investigation that george santos finds himself the main target of. >> and, ryan, speaking of matt gaetz, i want to share some of your interview with him yesterday on the topic of guns on the house floor. >> we're trusted with the world's greatest secrets and most exclusive intelligence, we could be trusted with our own security and the security of our

co-workers. >> reporter: what about on the house floor? is that okay too? >> well, that's already going on. you described the status quo. i always feel better when i know my colleagues on the floor are armed. >> reporter: there are fellow members that have weapons on the floor of the house? >> absolutely. the day the metal detectors came down, maybe the day before, who knows. >> glib. and happy. is this a good thing? >> reporter: well, nicolle, what it is is a reality. and it is a reality that is born out of the fact that there is a loophole in the security system here on capitol hill, in that all 535 members of congress, both republican and democrat, have the ability to simply walk around security screening mechanisms here without ever there being any kind of check to see whether or not they're bringing guns or firearms of any kind into the building. this is something they asked the incoming architect of the capitol, whoever that ends up

being, to address, to try to close this loophole. but the simple fact of the matter is that republicans, gaetz is an example there, is bragging about the fact they're able to flout the law that specifically says that guns are not allowed in committee hearings, on the house and senate floors, and no one is checking to make sure that is happening. that is something that i talked to a former capitol police officer who says it makes their job a lot more difficult, it is a security loophole at a time when threats against members of congress, politicians of all stripes are at an all time high and you have a lot of vitriol between republicans and democrats at levels we have never seen before. there is no way to tell whether a member of congress is carrying a gun at any point in time and at this point there is no way for capitol police to try to prevent that loophole from being closed. >> unbelievable state of affairs, ryan nobles, thank you for your reporting on both these

stories. when we come back, we'll shift gears to cover what is happening in iran, and the mystery of why so many school girls are getting sick there. the officials suspect they have been poisoned. human rights activists and journalists will join us at the table after a quick break. don't go anywhere. t the table after a quick break. don't go anywhere. we got the house!

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rocked the islamic republic. iranian authorities announced they're now investigating the apparent poisoning of hundreds of school girls in several cities across that country over a series of months. when officials are now saying may have been delivered attacks designed to prevent the girls from seeking an education. possibly retribution for the protests that have threatened the regime, women and girls have been at the forefront of the demonstrations calling for an end to the islamic republic after the death a 22-year-old, massa amini. she died for not wearing her hijab in accordance with government rules. joining us now, an iranian american journalist, activist and one of the most inspirational leaders, she was named one of "time's" 2023 women of the year for her long outspoken activism on behalf of the women and people of iran.

let's talk about the girls first and then about what i know you care about a lot less and that's the recognition. how long have you been aware of the fact that girls have been suffering and poisoned? >> these days it is happening every day. we don't even call it like a series of poisoning attacks. we call it chemical attack, we call it biological terrorism because, look, it has been for a few months and more than 1,000 students, school girls, are being transferred to hospital. and now recently the government, because of public pressure, saying that, okay, we're going to do investigation about this tragedy. well, we don't trust them. we don't trust them. talking about the regime actually, you mentioned massa amini for showing a little bit of her hair and saying that we're going to do an

investigation, we have achieved nothing instead they killed more than 500 innocent protesters. and now they're taking revenge, you know, against the school girls who are removing their hijab and leading the uprising. >> but, poisoning school girls seems like this thing that would risk tipping the scales and having the world community do more than it is doing now. why would they do that? >> they don't care. they didn't look for any reason to shut down the ukrainian -- and kill 176 innocent passengers, you know. they don't care about public pressure from outside iran. they only care when the leaders of democratic countries take a strong action and isolate khamenei and his gang of killers the way they isolate putin. when they see there is no consequence, no punishment after killing 500 innocent protesters,

then there is no reason for them to stop killing innocent school girls. so they are doing that because they want to create fear among brave women. they're doing that because they want to prevent women from take back to the streets. that's why they did it intentionally to create fear among brave women. >> what are you hearing is happening in iran with these school girls? >> i'm being in touch with the parents of students, and they're saying that it is very scary. it is scary. we both are mothers, imagine if you're sending our daughters, our sons to school and we're not sure whether they are going to come back. we're not sure whether they're going to be the target of chemical attack. what is going to happen to their futures? schools are a place meant to be safe place for our children, to learn, to educate themselves. but now it became a place of

terrorism attacks. and i talked to students, you know, they were even scared of using the ambulance because they were saying that maybe they want to kill us, so, yeah, this is the situation. you know, nicolle, it happened in afghanistan. taliban poisoned girls. you know mrs. obama launched a campaign, bring our girls back. the radical regime, the islamic ideology, the islamic state, they are using terror tactics to, you know, push back the girls behind the curtain, and that is why actually the islamic republic don't care about public opinion inside iran, that's is why iranians are calling on the western countries, the u.n. mechanism, the outsider -- outside organization to do an investigation about this tragedy. >> are you optimistic that with a chemical attack against young girls that this could be an impetus for the west to demand

some samples from some of the hospitalized girls? >> this is what we hope now. look, my heart is broken to see that, and now the foreign minister of the islamic republic is being welcomed in the european countries and suddenly we see the female politician, the foreign minister of sweden who cut her hair, welcoming the foreign minister, welcoming the -- >> why? >> why? that's why in your show i was furious, and i said that we don't want the female politicians it cut their hair to show their solidarity with iranian women. we want

the surveillance technology they're using to arrest unveiled women in the metro, the subway, where are they technologies now? they say we're not behind it. we're going an investigation. but the parents of the students saying all the cctv camera were switched off the day that their loved one were the target of chemical attacks. >> unbelievable. >> that shows you the islamic republic is behind this. >> we thank you for risks to you take to tell their stories. we thank you for being here, and congratulations on being -- >> i don't know whether i have to be happy or not. >> i think it's good. the picture, there it is. won't be silenced. certainly won't. thank you so much for being here. a quick break for us. we'll be right back. we'll be ri.

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thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we are grateful. "the beat" with ari melber start right now. >> welcome to "the beat." i'm ari melber. later tonight we turn to new reports that rupert murdoch may be setting people up to take the blame in this fox news scandal over lies. the at the prospect we've raised