good day, i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in

new york city. alex murdaugh in the initial hours now of what will be a lifetime behind bars. the judge piling on during sentencing calling the double murder defense an assault on the judicial system. we've got a live report coming to you in just a minute. plus, reports that president biden has now tapped some of the most successful track governors in the country to help lay the groundwork campaign. and fury erupts again at a town hall in east palestine, residents whose patience is clearly being tested to the limit nearly a month after that toxic train crash. >> this has touched my family. this has touched my friends, and it will touch me for the cellular level when i get diagnosed with cancer, als or whatever is going to come down the road if i stay in this contaminated, toxic town. >> more on that and the failure of norfolk southern's ceo to show up, the second time he's

avoided coming face-to-face with those residents. but we begin in south carolina with today's dramatic sentencing of disgraced former lawyermurdaugh. a little more than 15 hours after the jury went into deliberations murdaugh found out he'll serve two consecutive life sentences for the horrific murders of his wife and son. that news delivered after myrrh daughter once again proclaimed his innocence, and the judge told him that many have received a death penalty probably for lesser conduct. >> i know you have to see paul and maggie during the nighttime when you're attempting to go to sleep. i'm sure they come and visit you. i'm sure. >> all day and every night. >> yeah, i'm sure. and they will continue to do so, and reflect on the last time

they looked you in the eyes. >> this case was just overflowing with gruesome and horrific details. for more than 75 witnesses and 800 pieces of evidence, any appeal could take years. nbc's ellison barber is outside the courthouse in south carolina. also with me former u.s. attorney in south carolina, bill nettles, and former prosecutor david henderson. good to have all of you here. ellison, i know you've been talking to people on the ground following this case so closely for us throughout. emotions have to be high. what sticks out to you in all of this? >> reporter: yeah, i meerngs the prosecution very quickly said they feel like justice was served in this case, that they agree with the jury. they think the evidence that they presented wasoverwhelming and that's why the verdict of guilty on all four counts was delivered and delivered so quickly. this jury deliberated for two hours and 51 minutes.

that is not a very long time at all. the defense have said they plan to file an appeal, they say they feel like there are a number of things that they have grounds for appeal at both the state and federal level and say they will start that process filing the paperwork for it in the coming days. the judge had a lot to say at this sentencing hearing. he talked about alex murdaugh lying, and he had a back and forth with him, and the judge said to him about the lies after alex said again what he meant on the stand when he talked about, oh, the web of tales we weave and he said i meant i lie and i continue to lie. and the judge said the question is when will you stop? listen. >> and it might not have been you. it might have been the monster you become when you take 15, 0, 30, 40, 50, 60 opioid pills,

maybe you become another person. the person standing before me was not the person who committed the courtroom, though it's the same individual. >> reporter: from everything we could see on the live feed of the sentencing hearing, from everything that our colleague who was sitting in the courtroom watching closely saw, alex murdaugh did not look back once at his family who was in the courtroom after he received his sentence, when he arrived in court today, chris, it was a very different look than we have seen in the six weeks leading up to this. he was no longer in regular clothes. he was in a jumpsuit, a prison jumpsuit. you see him getting out there, his hands and feet both shackled. he typically comes in with his hands shackled. the feet that was something different today. other reporters as well as myself tried to ask him if he had anything to say. he did not. he walked in quietly. when he left, he had nothing to say either. his only remarks today were the

ones we heard him repeat twice in court. i am innocent. he said i did not kill -- he said i did not hurt my wife maggie. i did not hurt pau-pau. the judge pushing back on that saying essentially the evidence here shows that you have lied, shows that you're duplicitous. chris. >> you know, bill, we've talked a lot on this program about the big gamble, and south carolina attorney general alan wilson said murdaugh taking the stand was probably the nail in the coffin. do you think he's right? one juror said it took only 45 minutes actually to come to a verdict, so obviously it didn't help him. >> yeah, i mean, i don't -- in hindsight it wasn't the right thing. he went on the stand and had the jury believed him, we'd be having a different outcome here. in hindsight, yeah, he probably shouldn't have taken the stand. at the time i can see the rationale for him taking the

stand. i mean, you know, that's the courthouse where he grew up. at one time, it was almost a barometer of the sway they had over the community. i got five or six years ago if he'd have got on the stand and testified, they might have believed him. it was a gamble. obviously it didn't pay off. >> so david, do you see grounds for appeal? >> chris, i do not, and i think the easiest way for me to summarize my view of that overall is at one point his son buster tried to pass him a john grisham novel during the trial. i have to believe part of what he was thinking is hey, dad, i don't know if you've read this. they've got a better trial strategy than y'all do, maybe it's time you flip the script. we are going to see a motion for ineffective assistance of counsel as a basis for a new trial. i think he's got a better chance of winning the lottery than he does of succeeding on that motion. they typically don't assess it in terms of trial strategy. the bulk of the evidence that was used here was introduced by

him is ask his lawyers. i don't know why it's a good idea to say your housekeeper tripped and fell and died at your house. you approached her children at the funeral and said let's hustle the insurance company out of money. you tried to blame the victim who was your son, and when you did that, you forgot most people are going to conclude that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. that motion for ineffective assistance of counsel, he actually needs to file against himself because there's no way his lawyers went along with that. that was his idea. his lawyers said, you know what? he's a lawyer. it's his life. he wants to roll the dice. we'll go with that trial strategy. >> i want to -- i mean, when you talk about his housekeeper, it leads me to what the chief of s.l.e.d. said today. that of course is the south carolina law enforcement agency. take a listen. >> today is not the end. it's the next step in a long road to justice for every person

who has been victimized by alex murdaugh. >> so bill, i think the reference is obviously to the financial allegations against him, but i also want to look briefly if i can at the other deaths that have been associated with the murdaugh family. i'll start with the mallory beach incident. a young woman died in that boating accident. paul was at the wheel. there has been a civil suit filed. is that her family's last best recourse? >> yeah, i mean, for recovery on that. the question is going to be how much assets does the family still have? obviously there's some insurance. i believe there's also a lawsuit against parker's convenience store for selling them alcohol underage. so yeah, i mean, that lawsuit is very much still alive, and it will outlive the at the time of paul. if you really think about it, paul didn't have a whole lot of assets. they really were suing the family for the family letting them, you know, have that

alcohol, have the boat, and then they're going to be suing the convenience store, which sold them alcohol underage. yeah, the civil suit about the boat accident is still very much alive. >> and what about gloria satterfield, bill? their family, as we said, their family housekeeper for a long time who died in a fall at the murdaugh house. could that case potentially be reopened? it's got a lot of attention because of what was on netflix. >> any hope of a criminal case on that would be a little tough. it's a cold case, and you know, in terms of like criminal, like who actually pushed her down the steps or if someone actually killed her. i mean, it's possible but i think that's a long shot. and you know, i believe that the civil suit against murdaugh and the law firm for the children not getting their money has already been resolved. >> and then steven smith, the young man who was a classmate of alex murdaugh's oldest son

buster, he was found dead on a road ten miles from their home. s.l.e.d. had reopened that investigation into his death based on the double murder investigation of paul and maggie. now i wonder if that is something that comes to the are forefront once again? >> i've got enormous respect for chief keel, one of the things we know based on the way this investigation was handled was it was really, really tight investigation. there weren't a lot of leaks, and the way an investigation is supposed to work is that you're not supposed to know that the investigation's going on. you shouldn't be hearing about an investigation going on. while i have every faith to believe that they are taking a good hard look at it and i've been told -- it's been reported that they're taking a good hard look at it. i believe if they can find anything there, they will go forward with it. >> and david, back to the original reference, i think, which is that we know alex murdaugh is accused of at least

99 financial crimes in 19 different indictments, he was pressed on them on the stand. he baically said, yes, i did that. yes, i did that. yes, i did that. admitted to stealing millions of dollars. so do those cases just go away? what happens now that he's in prison for the rest of his life? >> those cases don't just go away, but this is a situation where the justice system has to have some common sense. he doesn't have a reasonable basis for appeal, and once those appeals have shut down, he's serving consecutive life sentences. there is no universe where he is ever going to see the light of day again. what you've got to remember is, as terrible as all of his crimes are, there are lots of other people who have suffered who deserve their day in court. i think he's confessed somewhere north of 100 different crimes at this point that you could potentially charge him with. at some point the justice system needs to say, you know what? he is never going to see the light of day again. he'sner going to hurt anybody

else. we've got to make sure we get justice for all the other people waiting for it. having been a special crimes prosecutor, there's a long line of people like that. i hope we balance justice with some degree of common sense long-term as it concerns mr. murdaugh. >> bill nettles, thank you so much, it was a pleasure to have you on the program, and david henderson, we'll speak with you again in our next hour. we're also going to hear from a juror who served in another high profile murder case, his take on the verdict and what happens inside a jury room. meantime, more than 100,000 people in texas, mississippi, and louisiana are without power today after tornados touched down overnight as part of a severe storm across the southern u.s. powerful winds tore the roof off a grocery store, overturned tractor-trailers. that storm right now continuing its path eastward and is expected to bring severe thunderstorms and heavy winds to the ohio valley before dropping snow on the northeast tonight.

nbc news correspondent morgan chesky is in little elm, texas, just north of the dallas. what are you seeing where you are? it doesn't look good behind you. >> reporter: yeah, chris, it has been a wild 24 hours for these people, and we saw these line of storms approach yesterday evening. tornado sirens were going off all over the dallas-fort worth area. what you're seeing behind me is the remnants of a grocery store. it was a combination of tornados and powerful winds that really did the brunt of the damage oaf the last 24 hours here, chris, and i can tell you that in texas, officials are now reporting five confirmed tornados. louisiana also reporting another tornado, but it was what this wind did in between that, as you can see here, caused a lot of the damage, more than enough to rip the roof right after covering multiple cars down below, and i have to tell you, chris, that right now this threat is far from over here.

we're seeing the same storm system make its way to the east, and right now, at last check, we have upwards of 70 million americans facing high wind alerts over the next 24 hours or so stretching from here in dallas to jacksonville, florida, all the way up north to pittsburgh coupled with a flood threat as a result of these drenching rains that are coming with this string of thunderstorms. i want to make clear this was not an isolated powerful storm here, chris. it was essentially a squall line that roared across this area late yesterday evening and into the overnight hours where it caused so much damage. so fortunately here they're having a chance to pick up some of the pieces now that we have a beautiful day. that's going to be changing for a lot of folks to the east of us as this storm continues marching on and proving to be dangerous there. we know kentucky also suffered from overnight storms as well. so we are really seeing weather extremes. in the middle of the country, chris, not to mention that a

storm in california could drop even more feet of snow, a storm there and cause real issues for the folks that are already buried beneath record amounts of snow in the san bernardino mountains outside los angeles. chris. >> the weather this winter has been unbelievable, exhausting at the very least. morgan chesky, thank you for that. and we've got new reporting today that president biden is looking outside the d.c. bubble to shore up party unity. can it move his not yet official campaign to offense? a south carolina woman arrested for taking an abortion pill more than a year ago. could this become the new norm in the post-roe era? and a high stakes meet between president biden is and german chancellor olaf scholz with ukraine topping the agenda. we'll take you there ahead, you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. s" only c -that's it? -yeah. progressive's homequote explorer makes it easy to compare home insurance options. man...i told my wife i'd be in here for hours.

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as republicans are split between high profile events this weekend, president biden is trying to seize the political offensive. that's from new reporting from "the washington post." it says team biden wants to consolidate democratic support, going outside d.c. to enlist successful majors and governors in his bid for party unity. according to the post, this national advisory board will be asked to travel, attend events, appear on television and perform other duties as high level surrogates for the democratic party. at first and then biden once he launches his campaign. i want to bring in symone sanders townsend, host of symone on msnbc and former chief spokesperson for vice president kamala harris. look, this group isn't just going to send out a bunch of surrogates. the post says it also hopes to minimize the chance of dissent at a time when it's no secret, a lot of democrats are uncomfortable about biden's age. is this the way to go about it?

>> look, i think this is a very smart strategy. this strategy, i believe, builds on a strategy that is very similar that then president barack obama em employed in his re-election campaign in 2012, soliciting voices from across the spectrum that can go out there and not only defend the sitting president and his agenda, and frankly, what he is going to rally -- you know, what he's selling to voters to get them to send him back for another four years, but also to proactively talk about things, to make folks feel like they're involved in what's happening. i used to talk about the barbershops, the beauty shops and the bible studies, chris, ask these surrogates are going to be folks that go to those kinds of places to hear directly from the people and meet them where they are. >> for other folks who are not on this advisory board but have roles to play in any campaign, particularly in a battleground state is the idea, i don't know, so this is the message.

let's all get on the same message. is it we're casting a diverse net? because clearly that's one of the priorities that they said they have. is it -- i'm almost ready to announce all of the above? >> it's a little all of the above, right? okay. so part of the reason you do a national advisory committee like this, and if you look at the names that are at least in "the washington post" article, and again, a formal announcement hasn't been made, but i could assume that we will know just about every single name on that list. it would be familiar to folks. these are people that are already regularly booked on television, right? folks that people want to hear from, people that various constituencies like, and so these are not folks that you'll have to tussle with some of our bookers if you will, chris, to get them on television. these are people folks want to hear from, so that's a positive. they're also folks that bring a little star power when they go into various states. someone like governor wes moore, for example.

i was at the white house with many other folks last week for the white house black history month program, governor moore and the first lady of maryland were both there. let me tell you, they had a photoline going in the corner of the room. people from all walks of life whether they were members of congress or national black leaders who were invited to the white house that day, they wanted to see the governor and the first lady, and they wanted to shake their hand and so you ask a governor moore to go into a georgia or a place in michigan, for example, and folks know who he is. couple that with the trusted leaders on the ground, and you've got a very interesting draw for your event. >> you've been inside a couple of presidential campaigns. i know this because i was on the campaign trail with you more than a few days. how much do you lean on governors, friendly governors in battleground states to give you the lay of the land, who knows much better about the intricacies of running a

campaign, not to in any way disparage a presidential campaign. they put their own leaders in every state, but how important can they be in figuring out the lay of the land? >> look, i think governors are important, particularly governors who just recently ran a race, so if you look at governor pritzker in illinois or you look at governor moore in maryland, again, recently elected governors. governor whitmer in michigan. governors are important, but i would argue, chris, there is nothing more important than the people who are closest to the issues, and so it is also always important you've got to make your touches with the congressional offices. you don't want your members of congress to get upset. you have to go in and make sure you're speaking to the mayors of the town that you're going to. you want to ensure that when you're out on the campaign trail and you're bringing your principle in and in this case for the democrats, it will very likely be president biden and vice president harris, when they are coming into a community, they are coming in and their

engagement is as authentic as possible, and some folks don't always do that well. i do think my former colleagues who currently work in the white house and some folks at the dnc, it's something they're thinking about. >> you're going to stay with me, we have more to talk about later on in the show. i want to go to the white house because we just saw president biden award the medal of honor to a black vietnam veteran nearly 60 years after he left the battlefield. nbc's allie raffa is covering that for us. i want to hear about colonel pairs davis. i understand his recommendation for the medal was lost and it had to be resubmitted a few times. tell us about it. >> reporter: yeah, chris, what a moment that was when we saw president biden lay that blue ribbon holding the medal of honor around retired army colonel paris davis's neck. this was truly a moment that's a testament to davis's patience and perseverance because he was originally recommended for this prestigious honor nearly six

decades ago. that recommendation was then lost, resubmitted, lost again, and then it took a group of volunteers in 2016 to resubmit all of this paperwork a third time before this was taken up again. some of his supporters have argued that racism played a role in why this didn't happen sooner, but this is something that davis has said he himself doesn't choose to dwell on. so you can imagine how momentous this was when he finally received this well-deserved honor. he's one of the country's first black special forces leaders, president biden talked about his time leading his unit through this brutal battle at a vietnamese army camp. president biden laying out in great detail the injuries he suffered. he talked about the gunshot wounds he suffered. he was hit with shrapnel from grenades. at one point, one of his hands was so mangled that he was only able to shoot his rifle with his

pinky finger, and he still managed to call for air support and save every single man in his battalion, even dragging them up hills and putting them into safety in rice padies until that support came. this was quite a moment when we saw this happen today, this well-deserved honor after nearly six decades of waiting for that honor, chris. >> what an extraordinary moment, let's say that name again, colonel paris davis, hero of the vietnam war. thank you so much for that. in our next hour, nbc's vaughn hillyard at cpac with some real insights after talking to voters and politicians. >> we are at the 2023 cpac, yes. >> this place, cpac, used to be a conservative's weekend out. it was the annual gathering for the who's who across the republican party. >> the conservative movement is alive and well. >> george h.w. bush maded rounds here, and dick cheney, and

george w. bush and john mccain. yet, mitt romney and paul ryan too. >> i don't see this great divide in our party. what i see is a vibrant debate. >> reporter: but the rise of donald trump has changed these halls. nikki haley, mike pompeo, ted cruz are here, but rnc chair ronna mcdaniel, and ron desantis are not. >> what does it same from the trump team's perspective about governor desantis not being here? >> the absence speaks volume. i know who is going to show up because he does every time, which is president trump. >> also not many mitch mcconnell and kevin mccarthy. >> what does it say about you being here versus the likes of mitch mcconnell or even a kevin mccarthy. >> if you keep going on down the line, you're going to name enough names where i'd say i'm not a rino, that's why i'm here. >> vaughn hillyard, thank you. still to come, a south carolina woman charged on suspicion of taking abortion pills to end her pregnancy. is this a sign of what's to come in the post-roe era.

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according to the affidavit obtained by msnbc, she was taken to the hospital back in october of 2021 with labor pains and told doctors she had taken an abortion pill. she then delivered a stillborn baby at 25 weeks, but south carolina law prohibits abortions after 20 weeks gestation and the hospital notified police. this case raises wide ranging questions about women's privacy and whether more states will look to prosecute women who use medication to end a pregnancy. let me bring in former federal prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst carol lamb. as you well know, normally a medical provider is charged in a state where abortion is illegal, not the woman, and in fact, i saw a recent poll that showed 14%, just 14% of americans think a woman should be prosecuted if she has an abortion. but could this become more common now, especially with roe overturned? >> yeah, chris, i think what you're pointing out is very important here.

this is a sign, i think, of increasing differing use of prosecutorial discretion than we've seen before. it's important to point out here that the abortion here or curd actually in october of 2021. that was before the supreme court ruled in the dobbs case and removed what most women thought was a constitutional protection. but the decision to prosecute was not made until just a few days ago, and so that actually indicates a change in the prosecutor's thought about what's the appropriate thing to do here. and the reason that that is interesting and maybe a harbinger of things to come is as you point out, very few americans are actually comfortable with the idea of prosecuting a woman herself when a pregnancy has been terminated, and in this case the fetus was quite far along, it was 25 weeks, and that was illegal. that was criminal back in 2021,

but the prosecutor decided not to bring charges at that time. so the only thing that appears to have changed is that the dobbs decision came down in june of 2022 and perhaps now law enforcement is feeling a little bit more comfortable in these more marginal cases where the fetus is farther along bringing the case against the woman herself in a self-managed abortion. >> as you know, there are all kinds of legal cases out there related to abortion, and now walgreen's says it will not dispense abortion pills in several states even where they remain legal after nearly two dozen republican attorneys general threaten the company with legal aeks. i wonder if you see more big companies going to feel like they have to make -- you know do things similar to this if they have to remove the possibility of any legal liability. >> yeah, so what kicked this all off was that back in january, the biden administration and its fda decided to change the rules with respect to who can -- who

can dispense, who can dispense the drug that's used in self-medicated abortions, and so what they did was they said now pharmacies can actually dispense this drug with a prescription from a certified provider, but the pharmacy actually has to get additional certifications in order to do that. the 20 attorneys general who wrote to these pharmacies and said we are telling you now that we have the authority to enforce our state laws, and we will enforce our state laws if you go ahead and provide these drugs to people who ask for them even with a prescription. that really does put the pharmacies in a difficult position right now because this is now a conflict between federal law and state law because pharmacies do -- i'm sorry, states do have the ability to regulate pharmacies to some extent within their state borders. and in the case of kansas, are

for example, the kansas state law says that these medications can only be provided if there is a physician in the room providing these drugs. so i do think that there has been an emboldened law enforcement effort here now that the dobbs decision did come down, and i do think that we are going to see more companies placed in this very difficult position. >> carol lamb, thank you so much for coming on the program as always, appreciate it. frustration and fury among residents in east palestine boils over during the most contentious town hall yet. the toxic chemical tests the epa is now demanding. we've got a live report from ohio next. t from ohio next. the monster, the outlaw... and you can't forget about the boss. sometimes- you just want to eat your heroes. the subway series. the greatest menu of all time. ♪ i gotta good feeling about this, yeah ♪ the subway series. ♪ i'm with it ♪ ♪ i gotta good feeling about this ♪

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local residents. >> epa monitors have not detected any volatile organic compounds above levels of health concern in the community. that are attributable to the train derailment. in addition -- >> don't lie to us. >> we're happy to take your questions. >> we are sorry. we're very sorry for what happened. we feel horrible about it. >> if you care about us, get our grandkids out of here now, get my children out. >> nbc jesse kirsch in is canfield, ohio, people couldn't quite understand it. the last guy said if you care about us, get my grandkids out of here, get my children out. get us out. sounds like it was a really rough and emotional time. where are we with all this right

now, jesse? >> reporter: yeah, chris, to say that there's still skepticism in this community i think is an understatement. when we were at this town hall last night, pretty early on an official from the epa was on stage and was talking about the testing that has come back so far and showing that the air quality is safe, and people just burst out laughing and pushed back on that idea, so there's this skepticism both in government and in the railroad, which says that it is going to do right by this community and make things right. there was a representative at this event, we went through the better part of an hour before we heard from that representative. he did take some questions from community members as well, but there were also questions from the crowd, people asking where's allen, referring to allen shaw the ceo of norfolk southern. he is expected to testify on capitol hill, but he was not at this public event with residents and government officials last night. so that was one of the questions. you talk about people trying to get their children out of here. people are trying to up and move. people have made their lives in

that community and are asking for the company to consider paying for their property so they can get out because they're worried that their homes, what they've invested in, are total losses at this point. i want to play for you now part of one of the oh exchanges we saw. there were several emotionally charged moments throughout the night. this is one of the exchanges that also involved the mayor of east palestine, he was there to be moderator between the state and federal officials as well as the railroad. here is part of what went on at the town hall last night. >> i want you to tell me why everybody in my community is getting sick. >> i want the same answers. >> why am i sitting here -- >> then let's get them. >> everybody has to make 15 minute statements, i'm sorry. we're doing the best we can here. and by the way, just so everybody knows, i've tried to keep my cool, and now i've lost it. i've apologized. i'm a part-time mayor. i have to feed my family too. doing the best i can.

>> reporter: all of this coming as the epa says once it approves a plan from the norfolk southern railroad, the railroad will be able to start temporarily remove tracks to dig up contaminated soil. the epa says that is something that is expected to begin today. i want to read one quick line from a statement the epa gave. they said it's possible people from the area may smell odor as the soil from the derailment site is moved, odors from the chemicals can be strong at levels much lower than what is considered harmful to health, but officials did say last night it is possible there could be vapors put into the air from the aftermath of this as well. we're trying to get some clarity on what the potential added consequences and health risks are to this community with the cleanup effort now going on. chris. >> jesse kirsch, thank you for that. a major political predicament for president biden, the move that's left some house democrats feeling totally blind sided. and inside the murdaugh deliberation room, what are those discussions really like?

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apparently pretty unhappy today, and their anger directed at an unexpected target, joe biden. they're apparently complaining they were blind sided by the president's announcement that he will not veto a republican bill aimed at tackling rising crime in the nation's capital, even though every indication was a veto would happen. one democrat telling the him, it's amateur hour and added, heads should roll at the white house over this. with the president's eye on 2024, it could be an indication of the growing importance of crime as the political issue. nbc's ryan nobles is on capitol hill, symone sanders townsend is back with us. political reports of house democrats are seething. what happened here? >> reporter: yeah, i can tell you from our own reporting that democrats are seething, particularly on the house side. pramila jayapal, chair of the progressive caucus put out a tough statement saying she strongly disagrees with president biden's decision, that washington, d.c. should be able

to govern themselves. the delegate who represents the district of columbia, said she found out through media reports not from the white house. it's a two-fold problem for the white house. first it's their relationships with democrats and those on the left but they also find themselves in an uncomfortable position right now because crime continues to be a bigger and bigger campaign issue, and as the president eyes a 2024 campaign relaunch, it's closure clear that republicans are going to hone in on the issue of crime and crime in the urban areas that are predominantly governed by democrats. this is president biden showing he wants to be tough on crime and especially on an issue where this bill is likely going to pass. he was going to be forced with the decision here. if he isn't going to get democrats to prevent it from going forward, the white house seemed to think this was something that the president needed to sign into law, if it becomes a vote next week.

>> and this comes on the heels of lori lightfoot losing reelection in chicago, the loss of suburban new york congressional seats in november, people say is another indication, crime will continue to be a big issue in 2024. did somebody at the white house mess up here, and do democrats ignore crime at their own peril? >> i would disagree with the notion that anybody in this country is ignoring crime. if you go to any local city, every mayor across the country is dealing with the crime issue. i think it's not good business, it's bad politics, if you are making decisions and not notifying people who are closest to the issue. in this case, for me, that would be house democrats. if i were the folks who had to make the notifications, that would be folks from washington, d.c. the mayor, the city council, and obviously congresswoman eleanor holmes norton, and moving on to folks in the congressional progressive caucus. i think there are two things

here. what ryan said needs to be bold and under lined here. this bill was going to pass, why? because they were bleeding support from democrats in the united states senate. they didn't have all the democrats in the senate saying they are not going to go along with this, for the very reasons that you laid out, chris, and i noted. crime is an issue across this country. i had an opportunity to talk to some local d.c. folks, and folks from mayor bowser's came. this can and should have been handled locally. they never wanted congressional interference in what they are doing theory in the district of columbia, but that the conversation really should not be about criminal codes, but the conversation should be about crime prevention, and i believe that locally here in washington, d.c., that's where the conversation is going to go. >> symone sanders townsend and ryan nobles, great to talk to both of you, thank you so much. caring for boston's rough sleepers, the powerful and

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for nearly 40 years, boston doctor jim o'connell spent countless nights treating the most vulnerable, boston's homeless population. nbc's harry smith spoke to him about why he does it and what he's learned. >> two nights a week for 30 years, dr. jim o'connell has done exactly this. >> how are you, by the way? what's going on? >> fulfilling the healer's oath with boston's homeless. his patient this night, michael. tells us he spent a good portion of his life in prison. as his regrets spill out, o'connell tends to the cut hand. >> thank you. >> o'connell urges michael to come to a clinic, no telling if he'll show. >> who's out here? who's out on the streets? >> oh, it's a real mix of

people. for example, you know, about 25% of the men that we'll see out here cannot read or write. >> he says most have endured significant trauma, physical, psychological, many self-medicate. are addicted. >> and little did i understand how complicated it was, and you can do a lot to ease their suffering, even though you may not end their homelessness. >> a classroom whiz at notre dame, he studied philosophy and theology, then harvard medical school. >> you know what people would look at that and say, why the hell is that guy out here? you know, i don't know exactly how to answer that. i was lucky to be thrown into it, and lucky that it hit the right nerves for me. >> and lucky for the patients of the boston health care for the homeless program, he helped build. the envy of many a city. >> i love this place. it's really really all i have in my life. >> how are you? >> o'connell seems to have a special instinct for people at

risk. his most important skill, listening, learned in his years as a bartender, his life's work featured in a new book. >> should we be more empathetic? as a public? >> yeah, i think that's a tall order for a public. but i would say if the public had a chance to see what we have been watching for years, you couldn't help but be empathetic. >> harry smith, nbc news, boston. >> we have a lot to cover in our second hour of "chris jansing reports," let's get right to it. at this hour, president biden hosting a key ally at the white house for the first time since russia's invasion of ukraine. it couldn't come at more critical time. pro russian fighters claiming to have almost completely surrounded the ukrainian city of bakhmut,