abortion rights are even in red states. and so we are just want to add the provision in to keep that from happening. >> they tried something like this in ohio, where they floated this idea of moving the standard for a ballot measures up to 60%. because they wanted to protect the regime there. >> yeah, yeah. >> eventually headed back a way to private public pressure. we will see what happens on -- to me, with a tell here is, is that republicans in mississippi they are worried they would lose a statewide referendum on abortion in mississippi. it says a lot about the politics of this when you give it to people. we will see how that continues to play. out jessica valenti, whose substack you should look up and subscribe to. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> that is all in for the week. alex wagner tonight starts right now. good evening, alex. >> you can't even -- >> this is a -- >> even if you are doing a very dark discussion on women's reproductive reproductive freedom -- i hear the joy in your voice when you say, for the week -- >> was i totally off?

was that too abrupt a turn? >> you can't hold back the joy that you are talking out -- and i respect it. >> i like the week -- >> as i do respect the conversation you have with jessica valenti, also an important conversation -- >> join your weekend when your show is -- >> exactly. thank you, my friend. you enjoy yours. and thank you for all you at home for joining us this evening. it was a 2005 primetime emmy awards. everybody loves raymond won that year for best comedy. j.j. abrams lost, won for best drama, and also this happened. >> ♪ ♪ ♪ >> donald trump, shouting his way through a duet of the green acres theme song, alongside

uncomfortable meghan malawi. don't ask me why. nobody asked for it. green acres had been off the air for 34 years by that point but still it happened and it was the weirdest most unfortunate musical collaboration that donald trump had ever been involved in until today. today, former president donald trump released a new song. correct -- a song. correction, a song. and correct a song. the title is justice for all. it features donald trump or reciting the pledge of allegiance while the national anthem is sung by a backup chorus of january 6th defendants who recorded their part of the sum over the phone from jail. i wish i were joking. >> ♪ ♪ ♪

>> ♪ ♪ ♪ >> trump dropped his new insurrectionist track today at cpac, where the republican party is embracing the january 6th rioters was on full display. one of the panels on the agenda for today's conference was titled, the true stories of january 6th the prosecuted speak. the wall street journal reports that some attendees handed out yellow ribbons meant to honor the people who were arrested in connection with the riot. this is what happened when a right-wing news ballot outlet when you interview a man who described himself as a january 6th political prisoner. >> i was a january 6th political prisoner. i got out in october. this is the first time i was able to --

this was the first time i was allowed to travel since january 6th. and i, thought what's a better place to come to then see? back >> with a better place to come to then cpac indeed? the republican party has now become the party of insurrectionist appalachia apologia. -- recently met with the mother of ashley babbitt, the insurrectionist who was shot and killed by police as rioters tried to break into the speakers lobby on january 6th. mccarthy is not alone. as cbs news notes in its report, other house republicans have also taken meetings with january 6th supporters and relatives of defendants. congresswoman marjorie taylor greene said there was a possibility some defendants relatives could be called as witnesses at an upcoming hearing of the house oversight committee. in other words, justice for january 6th rioters could soon be part of the official republican legislative agenda. it follows speaker mccarthy's decision to give exclusive

access to over 40,000 hours of capitol hill january 6th surveillance footage to fox host tucker carlson, who was has downplayed the attack and air documentary, patriot purge, suggesting the whole thing was a false flag operation. house republicans have also declared their intention to provide that footage to january 6th defendants to help them in their criminal trials against the department of justice. elsewhere on capitol hill, the gop ties to the january 6th rioters is causing complications for the party. right now, republicans new subcommittee on the weaponization of the federal government is desperately trying to find fbi whistleblowers who will come forward and accused the agency of wrongdoing. but cnn reports that several of the potential whistleblowers who have yet to come in for interviews were suspended from the fbi for being at the capitol on january 6th. and the witnesses who republicans have managed to bring in -- aren't in much better standing. the new york times reports the first three witnesses to

testify privately before the new republican-led house committee appear to be a group of aggrieved former fbi officials who have trafficked in white right-wing conspiracy theories, including about the january 6th attack and receive financial support from a top ally of former president donald trump. joining us now is california democratic congresswoman and former member of the january 6th committee zoe lofgren. congress woman off-guard, thanks so much for joining. as there's a lot to talking talk about, especially given you are a sense of an exhaustive work on the january 6th committee. what's your reaction to the -- republican convened weaponization of the federal government committee? the witness problem they seem to be having? >> well, i'm not on that committee, as you know. i'm on the judiciary committee. but i did have a chance to read through some of congresswoman plaskett's report. and it looks like they have got some very sketchy witnesses who

are not whistleblowers. they try to qualify as whistleblowers and -- they don't know what they are talking about from the testimony. and they are conspiracy theorists. if this is what republicans are going to embrace, hang on for a wild ride. i mean, who thought that we would be at a time when the leaders of one of our major political parties was openly endorsing and embracing criminal conduct. i mean, the january 6th defendants, most of them, have pled guilty to a crime, a violent crime in many cases, attacking police officers. some have pled guilty to sedition. and they are embracing that? what is wrong with them? >> i think a lot of people feel the same way. there's also the issue that some of the witnesses that may be called here may be on the payroll of former trump associates.

i will read you an excerpt from the times report. two of the witnesses both testify they had received financial support from cash patel, a trump loyalist and former high ranking official in the former presidents administration. one witness said mr. patel -- and that kash patel -- promote his forthcoming book on social media. can you contrast this with the way in which the january six committee vetted its witnesses and whether or not you have ever entertained calling someone to testify who is taking money from an outside political group affiliated with either the president or one of the opposition groups focused on the former president? >> to my knowledge, we never did. and we certainly made sure that that was the case. in addition to the cash payment from patel, i understand that one of the witnesses was provided employment at the center for renewing america, which is basically partly funded by donald trump's big

con, the online money that he raised, and also helped establish a position for mark meadows, who is up to his neck in the seditious conspiracy. so, this is very troubling, that these are people who are not dispassionate witnesses. in fact, if you read through -- i haven't read the whole report, but some of it -- it looks like, in most cases, they weren't witness to anything. they just have an opinion and their opinion is, they believe in conspiracy theories. >> yeah. they had previous law enforcement experience and our avowed and fbi or anti government activists at this point. i do wonder what you think of the open embrace, beyond just this committee -- the weaponization of the federal government. but among house republican leadership, there's the open embrace of january six insurrectionists. there's the idea that kevin

mccarthy and james comey, the speaker of the house and chair of the oversight committee, met with ashli babbitt, one of the insurrectionists, mothers, again that marjorie taylor greene, who sits on the oversight committee, says relatives of the generous six defendants may may appear at oversight hearings. do you feel the new focus of the republican-led house is going to be, quote unquote, justice for january 6th rioters? >> i don't know what they are doing. but i will note that speaker mccarthy we simply said that the officer who protected the evacuating members of congress at one end of the hallway when this poor woman, who was believed, i guess, what -- said was breaking into the other end of the hallway, that that officer was just doing his job. obviously, it is tragic that this woman was brainwashed and lost her life. but, as kevin mccarthy said, that officer was just doing his job. and that now, that somehow that

would change, is weird. >> i do want to correct what i said earlier. it was an aide to speaker mccarthy, one of his top speakers who met with ashli babbitt's family. but i mean, there is the question of what the speaker has done in terms of the narrative around january 6th and what appears to be our his active attempt to undermine the facts as we know them in terms of what happened that day by giving 40,000 hours or access to 40,000 hours of footage to fox news and specifically tucker carlson. that has been, in turn, lead for some of the defendants lawyers in the january six trials to say, our clients need access to those tapes as well. we need to see what tucker carlson is seeing, affective louis. we have some breaking news on that front, which is that, a federal judge, a few hours ago, denied one of the january six defendants requests to delay her trial in order to review thousands of hours of security footage. that's the footage i'm talking about that kevin mccarthy has made available.

the judge said that the lawyer had failed to explain why any additional footage of her movements inside the building would be exculpatory. do you think that the -- i mean, you are a lawyer. you know the body and you are not a judge. i understand that. but what is your expectation about people other than tucker carlson getting access to the footage? and specifically as it involves these defendants in these january 6th insurrectionists trials? >> well, there's something called a brady motion. and what that does is, it requires the prosecution to share with the defense all their evidence. and so any video that the prosecution has has to be shared with the defendant. now, in some cases, judges have said the defendant can have it because there's security concerns -- about releasing it publicly, the defendant can't release it for their defense but not disseminated. so, there's nothing that the prosecution has that hasn't been shared --

the brady motion scenario with the defense. and i think with a judge -- you know, i was -- court ruling. but it looks like the judge made a finding that the judge made an effort this was just the -- prosecution had has already been made available to the defense. >> yeah. it sounds like a judge was concerned that all the other defendants would want to delay their trials by months, if not -- we are talking about four years worth of footage if you wanted him to end. so, it would have a sizable impact on moving the trial through the courts, or moving these cases through the courts. i do have to ask you about the point we find ourselves in, if we look at what the totality of the republican party is doing vis-à-vis january 6th. it now looks like it's not just an effort to undermine the efforts of democrats to hold those accountable accountable -- those in charge of the insurrection, if you will, accountable. it's become something much more nefarious, which looks like

almost open embrace of a group of people who actively try to undermine democracy that day. and potentially would like to do so again in the future. and as someone who worked so tirelessly to show the american public what happened that day, to get to the bottom of what happened that day, how do you feel about the efforts of your colleagues in congress to do not even the very opposite, but to actively set us on a glide path towards the erosion of our republic? and the erosion of democracy writ large? >> well, whatever they are intending, their actions are undercutting the rule of law. and the embrace of crime is really a shocking thing. these defendants committed criminal acts. you can spin it however you want. but take a look at the video that the january 6th committee showed after clearance from the

capitol police in terms of security. and you can see this mob attacking, viciously, the capitol police who bravely defended us and because of that we barely avoided a much more serious bloodbath. at the time, kevin mccarthy, on the phone to the president when, we know from other witnesses, told the president, these are your people. these are your people, trump. and for now, some of my colleagues -- pretend it was otherwise, is frankly, jaw-dropping. >> california democratic congresswoman zoe lofgren, thank you so much for your time tonight. we really appreciate it. >> thanks. >> we have a lot to cover tonight. what was once the place for conservatives to see and be seen is now more like a late night infomercial. plus, new reporting about how the special counsel's investigation of the former president and other top members

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washington post dropped a bombshell report detailing just how close federal prosecutors were last fall to making a

decision on whether to bring charges against former president trump over classified documents found at his mar-a-lago beach club. the post shed new light on the infighting between fbi agents and doj prosecutors, how it delayed the search of mar-a-lago and resulted in trump announcing a presidential run before any charging decisions were made. that announcement, the presidential run, in turn, resulted in the appointment of the special counsel to the mar-a-lago case. today, new reporting from the post reveals that special counsel jack smith is now focused on trump's lawyers as he races against the political clock in his concurrent investigations into mar-a-lago and the january 6th insurrection. smith's pace appears to be quickening as the 2024 presidential election starts to take shape. trump so far has to declared republican opponents. nikki haley and activist vivek ramaswamy -- legal experts say that if smith brings criminal charges against trump, those charges would likely be pending when the gop primary debates begin in

august. some of smith's biggest obstacles here are witnesses central to both the january 6th and -- documents cases, including former vice president mike pence and former chief of staff mark meadows, both of whom have said they will refuse to comply with the special counsel subpoenas. a number of trump affiliated lawyers including evan corcoran are also fighting the special counsel in court. the washington post reports that the legal battle with corcoran as prosecutors seek's testimony could be settled in 2 to 3 months. joining us now is joyce vance, former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama and co-host of the sisters in law podcast. joyce, thank you for being here. we talk a lot about when we are going to see something from jack smith. and it becomes evident in this new reporting we have today that the clock is a concern, at least those who are watching this all play out in real time, if not the special counsel itself. these legal battles that the special counsel is engaged in

with people like mark meadows and mike pence -- what is your expectation about how much that could delay any potential charges and carry us into full on presidential election season? >> right. so, it's unpredictable. we don't now how long the courts will take to rule on any of these disputes or when witnesses will testify. but one thing that we do know is how jack smith is likely to handle this. he comes out of the public integrity section in main justice in washington d.c.. a big part of that units were these public irruption cases. and when you are doing public corruption cases, whether it's a senator or a mayor or as now a former and future hopeful presidential candidate, you are always aware that there is a ticking clock that -- election. you always have to be thinking, in terms of how to move your case forward so you can make the decisions that you may need to make before you hit into the

next election cycle. this is something that jack smith has to be acutely aware of, given his background. >> can you enlighten the as the how we square the reporting that the charging decisions in the mar-a-lago case were imminent? this is a reporting we have from the washington post. then, trump announces he's running for president. and the cases basically sent over to special counsel's desk. does he start from the very beginning? weird as he pick up the case vis-à-vis where the prosecutors initially had it left off? >> right. so, you do on occasion pick up a case from someone else. the special counsel situation, i think, is the most publicly familiar example right now. but you can have situations where a conflict of interest develops. and the cases for instance, transferred from one u.s. attorney supervision to another. and you don't start over from scratch. for one thing, you have a group

of agents who will typically travel with the case, sometimes prosecutors. and in this case, we know that jack smith was able to bring on board some people that he had worked with in the past. so, you have a team that has a significant understanding of what is going on in the case. you look at that. you make your assessment. and you keep going. if that reporting is accurate, that they were very close to making prosecuted decisions before the case was transferred to the special counsel, it does not seem like the sort of thing particularly in the mar-a-lago case that would significantly slow him down, if the only thing that was involved is getting up to speed on the evidence. >> okay. so, that was october. it is now march. are you going to infer anything about a timeline for mar-a-lago if this reporting is correct? >> i think that you are obviously raising the point from the article. is there more internal squabbling? we now know from this reporting that there was a delay in

executing a search warrant, in part because the agents have some concerns. and it's unusual when it's the agents who are slowing down a case. usually, it's prosecutors who are saying, look, we don't have enough evidence. i'm going to have to go into court one day and face a federal judge in the jury. and prove my case beyond a reasonable doubt. i need more before i am ready to go. it is not the usual situation where the agents are saying, we have concerns about going in and executing a search warrant. so, we don't know if there is more internal concerns within the team about getting this last bit of evidence that they need. you do see a lot of public indication of witnesses who are unwilling, who are fighting the subpoenas. and jack smith will have to find a way to deal with that. either you go without those witnesses or you continue those battles, perhaps, in regards to the january 6th case he is looking at while the mar-a-lago case, once you deal with evan corcoran situation -- the lawyer there -- you are pretty much ready to

go. >> yeah, let's talk about the lawyers, as you mentioned, evan corcoran. the washington post reporting we have from this afternoon, this evening talks about the way that jack smith is focused on trump's legal affiliates, if you will. i will read an excerpt from. the investigative activity highlights one of the ways in which the trump probes are unusual and complex, turning some of his many current or former attorneys into witnesses or potential investigative targets. a trump spokesman said the legal strategy was a sign of weakness in the case against the former president. do you think it's a case of weakness? >> you know, alex, i read that, and it's absolutely not a sign of weakness. it's so rare to go after the lawyers. for one thing, it's a high legal barrier. you have to have sufficient evidence to pierce the attorney client privilege. in essence, you have to have evidence that shows that the client and the lawyer are working together to achieve criminal goals. and that does not happen very often. i think that's a strong signal

here that the special counsel believes he has the evidence to work his way up the chain. the goal here has to be to get to the witness who can say, the former president ordered us to tell doj that everything he had been turned over, when in fact it wasn't. that would be sort of the smoking gun evidence in this case. corcoran, who appears to have been the lead lawyer on this case -- interrupt communication with trump would be someone whose testimony you would want if that was your goal. >> and at the same time that some of these lawyers are being mentioned as either possible witnesses or potential investigative targets, they are still meeting with the former president to talk about the case. that has got to be making lawyers who understand the way the law works cringe from the sidelines. does it not? would it not, joyce? >> you know, anytime you offer someone who is involved in the case the opportunity to choose

whether they want to be a witness or a defendant and they continue to engage with the people who are part of the alleged criminal scheme, it is, in some sense -- that they have made that decision, right? they've decided that they want to be a defendant, not a witness. with lawyers, it can be a little bit different. but once a lawyer makes that decision that they want to be a witness or at least they want to cut their criminal exposure and cooperate in exchange for a deal, they are no longer involved with their former client. they have to walk away. so, what we can read into this here is that they have not made that decision yet. they perhaps don't believe that special counsel has a strong case against them. or they are just not there yet. >> not to mention the potentially uncomfortable position they are putting their client in on a potential witness tampering charge. what we will leave that discussion for another day. joyce vance, it is always great to see you. thanks for your time tonight. >> it's nice to see you too. >> when we come back, one of

the nation's largest drugstore chains caves to pressure from antiabortion groups. plus, campaign stop? or infomercial? when it comes to donald trump junior and his fiancée, -- actually difference? we will have more on that next. e on that next oh booking.com, ♪ i'm going to somewhere, anywhere. ♪ ♪ a beach house, a treehouse, ♪ ♪ honestly i don't care ♪ find the perfect vacation rental for you booking.com, booking. yeah. i've never been healthier. shingles doesn't care. booking. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions

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political action conference, or cpac, has been one of the premier conservative gatherings in the country. if you wanted to be taken seriously in republican politics, going to cpac was basically a requirement. this year, though, the conference was more like an infomercial. >> instead of supporting both companies who hate you and use your money to further their political agenda -- so, go to kim's medals, it's kind of catchy,.com -- that's kim's medals.com. >> that was kimberly guilfoyle doing a special live from cpac version of her show. you may know kimberly guilfoyle as donald trump jr.'s fiancée. you may know her as a former fox news personality. you might even know her from her 60,000-dollar fee for a two and a half-minute speech on january 6th. at cpac, kimberly guilfoyle used her time to promote mike lindell's pillows. there they are, right there --

and to urge retirees to invest their retirement funds and precious metals through her promotional website, where she gets a cut. if that sounds kind of grief the, take a listen to donald trump junior, again, at what used to be one of the premier conservative gatherings in the country. >> so, if you are going to have a phone, you can give your money to at&t, what, you get weaponized against everything you believe, or you can go to patriot mobile. it's that simple. >> the amazing part about the cell phone service -- patriot mobile -- that donald trump jr. is hawking here, is the whole premise is to stop spending your money at woke cell phone companies, like at&t, t-mobile, or whatever woke cell phone company, and instead give it to a christian conservative carrier. but here is the thing. the christian conservative carrier doesn't have its own national infrastructure. so, it just rents excess capacity from woke cell phone companies like t-mobile and at&t. so, its customers are basically

owning the libs by paying patriot mobile, which then just pays the woke cell phone companies that patriot mobile killings they are the alternative to. anyway, you can use the code don jr. for f reactivation. what i'm saying here is that this is not the cpac of the path. so, my question is what is it, actually? and what does cpac tell us about the modern republican party? is it just one big grift? joining me now is longtime republican strategist, mike murphy, who advised republican candidates, including john mccain, jeb bush, and mitt romney. he's currently host of the must listen podcast -- on tap's tap. mike, thank you for being with me this evening. there's no one better to talk to about this. -- >> what a topic, the grift. >> when you think of the george santos's, and obviously donald trump with his ties and his stakes and even alex jones with his vitamins or whatever he sells, the conservative

movement in the year 2023 -- it does feel like an infomercial. and i wonder how much you think the big con, the grift, essential to the party's identity at this point. >> well, alex, first of all, i join fellow patriot donald trump jr. in urging our listeners, the true patriots at, there to make the i check out today to questions against secular humanism, or cash. this is drifting plain and simple. -- it's unbelievable. i did not know god had an opinion about cell phone companies. yes. but, what's happened is trump's shrinking the party and cpac is shrinking. but it is kind of a professional grassroots huckster wing of the gop. so, the good news is, it's an outlier and it's not the sampling it used to be. hell, when i was chairman of the college republicans at georgetown years ago, after reagan got elected, we would go

there. it was the best party in town. and it reflected the young energy inside the republican party. this thing now is a scam. pure and simple, top to bottom. >> -- how that fits, though, in the ecosystem of the gop. there's a competing confab, the club for growth conference, where, i think ron desantis and mike pence and nikki haley, they are all speaking. it's kind of like the legit conference. but when you talk about the energy and enthusiasm, i mean, cpac may be a clown show that is offering nine 99 $9.99 gold coins, or whatever. but it does represent some certain part of the gop, does it not? does it not represent the most animated part of the base that is, they are, for essential to those who would like to keep power over the club for growth? >> it is a sliver. what it is is a grassroots party the hoot and holler. but it's what i call the hobbyist wing of the right

wing. the club furrow thing is the donor club. that is the meaning of people who can write 500,000 dollar checks to your super pac. so, the candidates will break down the door to get in there and kind of do their ten minutes. there was no open for significant donors or bundlers. the cpac thing -- cpac now is like the 25 japanese troops in a cave somewhere in 1953 waiting for the emperor -- to attack. they are some sliver. they vote in primaries. i won't zero them out completely. but if you look at the scientific poll of republican voters and you pull -- you get the aluminum foil had long enough to get their attention and you pull the people running up and down the hallways, hawking the stuff at cpac, there's not a lot of correlation. it is a symptom of the weakness of the trump thing, not the strength that he owns the shrinking island. >> i've got to ask you what you think the ideological center of the republican party is at this point. because when i think of club for growth, i'm thinking these are the money to republican

elites who really care about low taxes. and when i think about the political figures who speak at cpac, it's kind of the grifter class. but money is the central thing that ties it all together. is it not? i'm just trying to understand what the republican party is actually about -- >> yeah, politics has become about -- it -- confused me as a regular republican -- grassroots were about -- establishment. many people like me -- but the antiestablishment has its own establishment. and their trade show is cpac. as far as the party, it's got a lot of factions. right now the biggest war is between kind of the populists. and there are rich populists who right loved to write super pac checks all the way down to grassroots, really grievance populists who are worried about space lasers and think marjorie taylor greene of to be empress, all the way over to kind of more thoughtful populous. then you've got the old burke conservatives like me which are

kind of the dominant conservative faction in the original not completely crazy republican party. and there is a struggle. trump is the poster child of the grievance populists. and that is where the fault lines are now. some of the money is with him. most of the money is, god, we are tired of losing, we are tired of crazy. this guy is a problem. can we get back to free enterprise, strong defense, the basic republican building blocks? but they don't control the party now. the primaries are going to sort this fight out between all the warring factions. >> they are still using t-mobile. but then, so as the insurrectionists wing as well. >> anyway, we have to leave it there. mike murphy, my friend, thank you for your time and wisdom as always. >> thank you. >> we have still more to come tonight, including one of florida college students we introduce you to last night who are fighting back against governor ron desantis's assault of their school. we have an update of for you on how that's all going. plus, the latest on the fight to preserve access to medication that has come under

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they say they longed launched a program to make people know despite with these 14 states say the people who want abortions can get them in all 50 states by mail. that's because the justice department still says that it is legal to mail the two pills used for medication abortions across state lines. the may day trucks come complete with q r codes the direct people to resources about how to get abortion medications sent to restrictive states. as the fight over abortion access shifts gears from surgical abortions to the method used in more than half of u.s. abortions, which is pills, advocates and residents of restrictive states are finding new innovative ways to fight back and spread the word that the battle isn't lost yet. even though it seems increasingly uphill. in texas where pretty much all abortion is illegal at any point in pregnancy at the risk of a felony, one lawmaker is trying to take things a step farther. say representative steve talk recently introduced a bill that

would ban websites from advertising or selling abortion medication. the bill specifically calls out plan c, hey, jane and aid access, all groups that helped people access abortion pills, kind of like what made a health is doing with his q r code. this proposed texas bill would also let individuals sue the people who maintain these websites. these sorts of bills are usually challenged in court, but not before they frighten state residents. at this point the protracted and splintered fight over reproductive health care isn't just freaking out people, it's scaring companies, as well. just yesterday walgreens announced it would no longer provide abortion pills in 20 states, even though in some of those states access to that medication is still legal. in january, the chain said it would sell abortion pills through its retail pharmacies. but whether group of twenty attorney general wrote to the company threatening legal action, walgreens reneged on its plan. the attorneys general told walgreens that they were just trying to uphold the law and

protect the health, safety, and well-being of women and unborn children in their states. joining us now is carmen, senior correspondent for new york magazine. great to see you. thanks for being here. sorry this is where we are as a country and what we are given to talk about, but, you know, what is your thinking about walgreens decision, and how likely do you think it is that the -- from the state attorneys general is going to make pharmacies like cvs, albertsons, rite aid, walmart, costco, kroger, cave to the same kind of pressure? >> to put it into context, this is an enormously safe medication. it is been studied over and over again. in fact, it is 18 times safer for a person to take the abortion pill than it is to give birth. it is generally safer to have an abortion and to give birth, but even more so to take a medication. but until then we have a male to get in pharmacies because

abortion everything around it is regulated in ways that don't have anything to do with medicine and everything to do with politics. so when the biden ministration tried to enlarge these possibilities, in part recognizing that access is so much more complicated, trying to make more avenues given that a third of the states have banned abortion, it's like a game of whack-a-mole. it's that they've made clinics are held to walk into. they shut them down and all those states. so the prospect that people might be able to get an abortion pill without having to wait weeks anxiously to figure out if it's gonna get there through the mail, because we know the mail is complicated, and everyone not everyone is a stable address. they don't necessarily feel comfortable walking into an abortion clinic. so lest anyone access an abortion without shame, anxiety, stigma that has nothing to do with medical necessity, that's where these ags come in. so they are trying to back down any attempt by the federal government to make peoples lives easier when they're trying to access this

procedure. >> and terrify those websites, if you will, and scare them into effectively shutting themselves down, i guess, that are trying to help people access the medical, the medication that they need. the idea that you would prevent a website from being available to women in states like texas, it feels like we are not in america anymore, that we are having restricted websites when women are in medical emergencies. >> absolutely. a lot of these websites actually started because they recognized where things were going. they saw that there was a danger. they saw that there was an access problem. now u.s. based websites, they only work where abortion is legal. then you have aid access that works in states that are not illegal so it's a complex picture. but it's what antiabortion people recognize is they can't raid everybody's medicine cabinets. god they wish they could. >> or their mailboxes. >> and you can also, this is an important thing to know, you can get this pill without being

pregnant if you get it through one of the online pharmacies. so some people are stocking up in advance, because they don't know how this axis pictures going to change. and so this walgreens move needs to be seen in the context of them trying to shrink the possibilities that some people should get the care they need. >> we are waiting for the texas ruling from judge has merrick, which could shut off access to nif crystallography as the country. the other abortion pill is use technically for ulcers. it would be harder to ban that as well. but it is used for abortions as an off label use. and i wonder if you think, if they're successful in banning -- is misoprostol next? is the option of medication abortion taken off the table for american women? >> that's a critical insulin of country. it won't cover everyone who needs an abortion. for example if you need an abortion later the pregnancy,

medication won't help you. so i think even though these are game-changers, it's good remember that not everybody is gonna be able to get the care they need this way. in terms of, and one of the things we are really learning since dobbs is that you can't really take abortion out of general medical care without harming a lot of other people. so these are drugs that are sold, for example, in mexico. you can get them over the counter. also medications. if you are having a miscarriage, if you are, in some cases, having an induction. these are pills that are used into all kinds of contexts. there's nothing that says this is for the bad women in this is for the good women. much of the antichoice would like to kind of segment that. and so i think that they would face a problem, like, let's say that this makes its way up through the courts and judge cause merrick who came from the alliance defending freedom, does what everybody thinks he's going to do but has to get up hills, and the administration has deter interpreted, and so on. more more people are understanding that you can

disentangle abortion from other kinds of medical care in that it requires punishing people in all kinds of medical situations. >> irin carmon, it is complicated and ongoing, shall we say. it's great to see you. thanks for your time integrate reporting on the topic. we have one more story for you tonight, an update on the fight students and new collagen florida are waging against their governor, ron desantis. that is coming up next. s coming up next try downy light in-wash freshness boosters. it has long-lasting light scent, no heavy perfumes, and no dyes. finally, a light scent that lasts all day. downy light! type 2 diabetes? discover the ozempic® tri-zone. finally, a light scent that lasts all day.

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exclusive report from new collagen florida, where governor ron desantis's handpicked trustees have used their majority in the public colleges board to fire the colleges president and eliminate its diversity and equity programs. and they are just getting started. i spoke to some new colors students who are organizing in response to all of this and seeking support. >> this is an attack on our education, a hostile takeover of our education.

but we are strong. we are strong, resilient community. the students have come together and we are coming together to launch a new organization and a statewide nationwide and hopefully organization to fight back against desantis's political takeover of our classrooms. >> the organization's goal is to raise $250,000 for the grassroots efforts, and they have already raised more than $192, 000, a big chunk of that coming in via their website, saying new college dot org after we brought you their story last night. we have even more to bring you from our conversations with the students and their parents and there are teachers on our show next week. but for tonight, that's it for us. now it is time for the last word, with jonathan capehart, who is in for lawrence. good evening, my friend. foi >> haven't seen you in so long. >> i know. is the only way i get to see you? tuesday through friday night. but we're gonna have to get together the next time in new york.