people listening and watching this ted talk, together or we, can make a difference. together we can speak up for justice. together we can help change the world. >> what a life, what a legacy. judy heumann, thank you. that's it for today in this weekend, i'm alicia menendez, i will see you back next weekend for more american voices. i'm also going to be on the 11th hour tomorrow if you want to hang out with me there. but for now, i handed over to mehdi hasan, whose book came in the mail. congratulations mattie. s mattie if you've got a signed copy, oh -- if not, i'll make that work. my hand has signed so many books this week. >> humble brag, but i'm not talking to you, i'm not looking at you, until i finish the book and learn how to win an argument. >> okay, let's not have an

argument. have a great rest of your night. thank you so much. appreciate it. tonight on the mehdi hasan show, my warning for democrats. improve your messaging to voters, or risk a stinging defeat in 2024. congressman eric swalwell, who communicates better than most democrats, joins me live. plus, new reporting on the behind the scenes chaos at fox in the weeks up to the 2020 election. their fealty to trump on full display. and, should we be doing more to rein in israel's far-right government? i'll speak with -- you just hand delivered to president biden on this issue. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> good evening. this weekend, some of the most conservative republicans from across the country gathered in maryland for the annual conservative political action conference, once a staple of the season, this year's cpac

conference was a gust of years past. many republican simply refused to attend, and those that did show up, while, they didn't quite get the rousing reception you may have hoped for. 2024 hopeful nikki haley delivered her speech to a half empty hall. former secretary of state mike pompeo's audience seem to be made up more of press than actual cpac attendees. even donald shade trump, who drew relatively the largest audience of the weekend still couldn't fill the room. what is it with this guy and crowd sizes? but, despite a lackluster showing, the ex president still managed to deliver his usual demagoguery. >> in 2016, i declared, i am your voice, today, i add, i am your warrior, i am near justice, and for those who have been wronged and betrayed, i am your retribution. i am your retribution. >> now, let's be clear about

something. what trump said is on a deniability, unquestionably, fascist aquatic. the idea that you vote for me and i'll be a retribution -- that straight out of the authoritarian playbook. all the way back to the 1920s and 1930s. however, just because this rhetoric is fascist stick and scary and slightly unhinged doesn't mean it's not effective, sadly. trump was always known how to rile up his base on a gut level. some of this might stun you, but the former president, for all his craziness, ignorant rambling, bloviating, actually gets, what, of all people, what aristotle was saying 2000 years ago and his landmark work rhetoric. as i point out in my new book, when every argument, the art of debating, persuading in public speaking, it was our startle who made the case for pathos, making emotional appeals to people and doing it with rhetoric. your language will be appropriate if it expressions is emotion and character. to express a motion, you will

play the language of anger and speaking of outrage, the language of discussed and discreet reluctance to utter a word when speaking of impiety or foulness. the language of exultation for a tale of glory, and that of humiliation for a tale of pity, and so in all other cases. many democrats get the importance of emotion and character? use the language of anger when expressing outrage? how many on the left focus on making emotional appeals to the electorate and not just logical or rational appeals? rousing their voters in the same way that the gop rows was there's? i've said this before, but i'll say it again tonight. politics is a knife fight. republicans bring an emotional rocket launcher to that knife fight. well, democrats bring a 17-point policy paper. this isn't a new trend either. this didn't start in the age of trump. as i point out in my book, go back to 1988, to the presidential debate between democrat michael dukakis, and republican george bush senior, which opened with this exchange.

>> governor, if dukakis were raped and murdered, what do you favor and a ramp up -- irrevocable death penalty for the killer? >> no, i don't, remark. and i think you know that i have proposed -- opposed the death penalty my whole life. i don't see any evidence that -- i think they're better and more effective ways to deal with violent crime. we've done so in my own state. it's one of the reasons why we have had the biggest drop in crime of any industrial state in america, where we have the lowest murder rate of any industrial state in america. >> the governor went on like that for another two minutes. but the voters watching at home didn't want to hear about why the death penalty wasn't a deterrent, or why crime rates were falling in massachusetts. they wanted to see how a candidate for president felt about his wife being brutally assaulted and killed. they wanted to see a motion. passion. anger.

it's no coincidence in my view that rational, policy obsessed dukakis lost that election, or that similar candidates like al gore, john kerry, and hillary clinton also lost the races. it's not enough to have good ideas are good policies. the wind, and also -- how you message them. how you convey them. how you connect with your voters. now, joe biden, will not the greatest of orators, does have a big advantage over other democrats when it comes to messaging. he's seen as authentic. plain speaking. blunt, even. back in august of last year, by the news that bluntness in authenticity to throw caution to the wind and verbally unload on the modern republican party. he called out the gop for what it is. denouncing trump's political ideology as semi fascism. a few days later, in philadelphia, he continued to sound the alarm on the dangers of the republican party. >> so much of what's happening in our country today is not normal.

donald trump and the maga republicans represent and extremism that threatens the very foundations of our republic. >> as expected, republicans hit back, chastising his use of the f-word, and even some democrats, never missing an opportunity to take the moral high ground, tried to paint biden's language as unnecessarily divisive. senator majority dick durbin called it, quote, awkward. but biden's emotional, combative language worked. just a few months later, democrats held the senate and to be back forecasted red wave in the house. now, i'm not asking democrats to engage in the kind of disgraceful demagoguery exhibited by trump this weekend. but ahead of 2024, what could be one of the most consequential elections of our lifetime, i'm asking democrats to not only appeal to people's heads, but to their hearts as

well. but don't just want to hear your policy. they want to see your passion. now i want talking points. they want truths. here's what trump gets that a lot of democrats still don't get. voters want someone who's going to fight for them. now, one democrat who appears to understand both the power of an emotional appeal and of picking a fight is democratic congressman eric swalwell of california. low rent up to the midterm elections -- he released this ad, hitting republicans on the dangers of their draconian abortion bans. >> mary anderson? >> yes. >> i have a warrant for your arrest. >> arrest for what? >> penal code two for three violation. unlawful termination of a pregnancy. >> you've got to be kidding for me. >> that's my personal business. >> that's for the courts to decide, ma'am. your medical records have been subpoenaed, and doctor -- already in custody. >> following the release of that ad, swalwell was slammed

on social media. conservative critics said it was a gross miscalculation of their views. no one wanted to lock women up for having an abortion -- however, this week, we saw exactly that plant in south carolina, where 33-year-old woman was arrested and charged with performing or soliciting on abortion after allegedly taking abortion pills to end her pregnancy back in 2021. well abortion is legal in south carolina up until 20 weeks, it's one of only three states that explicitly criminalizes self managed abortion. republicans in the state house want to take things even farther. dozens of state lawmakers have now sponsored a bill that can make abortion a death penalty ideological offense. yes, a death penalty eligible offense. that ad you just saw? doesn't seem so far off now, does it? congressman eric swalwell of california joins me now. congressman, thanks for coming back on the show. let's start by talking messaging. >> do you believe your party, the democratic party has a mesh surging program? your viral ads, are they in

attempt to fill a combative vacuum within your party? >> we're getting a lot better. hakeem jeffries always used to say the problem with democrats is that we govern and fine print, and republicans government headlines. now, he's the head of our party in the congress, and i think we're going in a better direction. but mehdi, i think the long-standing problem is we need to start taking credit and discrediting. taking credit for what we do. the jobs and infrastructure act, that something that democratic and republican presidents have talked about for decades. we pass it, we don't really make a lot of wallpaper of it, and what to the republicans do? they show up with the ribbon cuttings and take credit themselves. and on the discredit side, keep these guys on their heels. play on their side of the field. and make sure we continue to define them as a lot that prefers violence over voting, fascism over facts, and will not, you, know really stand up for any principle rather than

just owning the libs. that's why i think if we stay on offense with them, on the discrediting side, their lack of policies will continue to be so obvious to the voters that we will make more and more gains. >> playing on their side of the field is so true, and so vital. yeah, so many democrats don't do it. congressman, i want to get your reaction to what we heard from donald trump yesterday at cpac, promising voters he would be, quote, retribution. that is fascism, is it not? you just use the word fascism. why are so many people in your party so afraid of using the f-word? criticizing a president for saying 70 fascism -- he didn't even use the word fascism. >> yeah. it is fascism, by the way, mehdi. and also, speaking of playing on their side of the field, one state that it feels like we've just given up on his florida, right? and you have a fascist governor there, and we run candidates down there, we had annette

today are, whose father served in the air force and world war ii. she left columbia during that time of corruption to come to the united states. when republicans painted her as a socialist. every single at called her a socialist. and this is a state where the governor has taken away tax benefits from a private company because his feelings were hurt about something they were saying on one of his policies. where i come from, that's what socialists, you know, socialist leaders would do. the governor wants to have a six-week abortion ban and tell women what they can do with their body. where i come from, that's what a dictator would do to tell somebody what they can do with her body. so again, i think a state like florida is so ripe for us to exploit, you know, and aim light back at them. the socialist trope that they're projecting on us. >> yeah. i mean, we could have a separate discussion about whether it helps to always be on the defensive over socialism.

harry truman once mocked republicans for calling everything that helps people socialism. but let's talk about florida in the context of abortion, because rhonda santos is also passed anti abortion laws. you are slammed for that abortion ad at the time he ran it. but since the dobbs decision, attacks on abortion have only escalated nationwide. you have now this woman in south carolina arrested, reportedly, for self managed abortions that took place all the way back in 2021, pre-dobbs. republicans that state now want to make abortion a crime punishable by the death penalty. what do you say to critics that accused of dramatizing this or head purple as on it? >> you are overreacting, they said. the never gonna do that, they said. you, know i heard all that from republicans. and of course, the natural, logical arc of, you, know where these would go, is that many in their party, an extreme party, would want to criminalize not just the act, but those who would help. doctors, other providers.

and of course, the woman who makes that decision. and that's why on this, we shouldn't back off. and i hope you see across the country more and more referendums that would put this on the ballot. because that surge turnout in michigan, that surge turnout in kansas when we had to defeat it -- we shouldn't assume that just because, you, know we beat expectations in the midterms, that this issue is going away. >> last question, congressman, before i let you go. i wanna ask you about this new bombshell report on the house gop's weaponization subcommittee. democrats on the judiciary community, which you will remember now exposed jim jordan's trio of so-called whistleblowers as a group of -- ex fbi employees, all with a clear conservative biases, one of those witnesses, stephen friend, an ex fbi special agent who has since resigned, testified he was asked to surveil in person attending a school board meeting. but your party's report

revealed that, quote, -- the man being tracked was a three percenter who was under counter-terrorism investigation, and he was later arrested on charges related to the 16 attack. is this your party strategy now? to prebut the monsoons that republicans are putting out? >> yes. on the judiciary and weaponization committee, the best thing we can do is just take a 3d approach. you know, to discredit them before the hearing even starts. again, these are the guys that say, you know, elon, trump, kanye, right? that's where they start. it's to hold up an antisemite like kanye, and they didn't take the tweet down for two months. so don't give them any credibility ever before the hearing starts. the second as to be to debunk. we don't have to chase every ball they throw, but if they are able to, you know, land substantive attacks, we need to debunk them. the third is deliver. pivot to what we already delivered in the majority, and what we would do if we had the

gavels. so, you discredit, debunk, and deliver. and i think, again, that's how you play their side of the field for the next two years. >> those are three days i'm sure our viewers would like to get behind. democratic congressman eric swalwell of california, thank you for your time. always appreciate it. >> my pleasure. >> ahead, the kids will be all right. a twist on my 62nd rent. and i tent -- can't take credit for this idea. it goes to someone i met on my book tour this week. i'll explain in a moment. i'll explain in a moment ♪♪

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special edition of my 62nd rent. i've been meeting folks from around the country this week while promoting my new book, when every argument. at one of those events, a young audience member asked me, without warning, to do a 60-second rant, right there on the spot, in front of the live audience in the bookstore.

not only that. he asked me to do a positive rant. to say something positive for 60 seconds. take a look at what happened. >> i was wondering if you could take one of those two minutes to, on the spot, whatever you want, 60 seconds, either -- i was thinking earlier, either maybe -- it's a bizarre rant about something that's wrong in the world. maybe, like, i ran for something for 60 seconds that you find something positive in american politics? or whatever is bothering you read at this moment. >> i'll play the role of timer. so -- >> all right. i'm gonna say, here we go. >> ready, set, got. >> i am 43 years old, and i love living in this country because i love all the people who are my kids age right now. my kids are 15 and ten. i love young people in america. young people are saving democracy in america, my evidence of that, look at the 2018 midterms, the 2020 election, the 2022 midterms, and study what's been done. if you go to -- john gullible be at harvard,

i'll tell you that young people are -- the crucial difference, young people turned out in major numbers. if you take young voters out of the election, democrats don't get the house in 2018, don't win the house in 2020, don't save the senate in 2022, and the, for young people are actually inspiring us -- always on tiktok, i was doing nonsense, actually, young people out there are fighting for abortion rights, civil rights, fighting for minority rights, fighting for transgender rights, fighting for people who can speak for themselves. so i say, young people -- i don't care what the older generation is doing. building walls and voting for donald trump -- it's the young people who are gonna save this country and save democracy. >> wow! to the second. to the second. >> wow. can't believe actually pulled that off. coming up after the break, we'll talk more about the power of young voters with two experts. christina ramirez and -- that's on the way. that's on the way.

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the break, young voters are crucial to saving small d democracy and the big d democratic party. so how are they reacting to the news that the supreme court is skeptical about upholding president biden's student loan forgiveness plan? and how do they want political leaders to tackle other important issues ahead of the 2024 election? joining me now -- president at next-gen america, and victory, co-host of -- thanks for coming back on the show. christina, there's new reporting by nbc that show student debt relief was a completely -- key issue in seven out of the eight swing states in 2020. we know this is a top issue for strip swing state voters, but talk to us about a crucial doses for young voters as well. >> this was a top issue we've seen over the last several

cycles of young people coming out and voting. what we thought the supreme court was once again republicans versus young people. this is a rogue supreme court that has taken the wrong stance on abortion, likely to take the wrong stance on student debt, and young people are seeing -- turning out in record numbers because they see the consequences of one republicans are in charge. they're willing to stay in the way of progress that would impact 14 million americans across the country. in peoples lives that would be transformed. this is transformative policy. it's not just about policy, it's about people. people like -- 23 years old, edinburg, texas, her mom works and cosmetology, her dad's a mechanic. first in her country to go to college. this would've transformed her life's student that is canceled and moved forward. young people will remember this next election. who stood in the way of progress on the issue of student debt? >> victor, your thoughts on

this issue? how can young voters mobilize around this issue amid all the conservative backlash? >> first of all, i agree with everything christina said about this issue. student loan forgiveness is one of the top issues young people care about. same with abortion rights. like we saw in 2022, abortion rights is really one of those issues that galvanizes young voters. it was after the supreme court overturned the right to an abortion that young voters turned out, registered to vote, and turned up in historic numbers in 2022. i suspect if this happens on this issue, student loan forgiveness, we'll see the same thing happened again in 2024, where young people are gonna realize that this is what happens when republicans are in control. we see what's happening with republicans in various states, and also on the supreme court level, act to flee rolling back our light -- rights and what we care about. for young people specifically, how do we galvanize each other? how do we mobilize invaders? i think a lot of it's gonna come down to, first of all, the democratic party making clear what this republican party is doing and our lives. it's waging a war on young people. it's trying to overturn our

rights. second of all, giving young people of reason to vote for them. i think there's a number of things that the biden administration has done really well. i think it's up to president biden, for the democratic party, to offer young people why we should vote for them. and lastly, i think it takes a lot of young people talking to each other on social media. doing the work of relational organizing and having these peer to peer conversations. that's something we saw happen really well in 2022. i think it's gonna be key in 2024. >> yes. and christina, as young voters get galvanized, as a wave of bills across the country targeting them -- a bill in texas would ban pulling on college campuses, those -- banned the use of student i.d.s for voting. how are voters pushing back against these attacks? and they are deliberately targeted, are they not? >> is what is being pushed by extremist republicans. you know, on election night, 2022, you had, you know, hosts on fox news getting on tv and saying, we need to raise the voting age because young people aren't voting the right way.

because they think, instead of democracy has always been a radical proposition -- you have to run on the merit of your ideas and speak to people's pain and their power to make change. and instead of speaking to the pain, the needs of an entire generation, republicans are trying to restrict voting access of young people, because they're overwhelmingly rejecting them, almost wholesale. you know, young people turnout at 28 points higher for democrats this past election. this isn't just the largest and most progressive generational voting bloc in american history. this is the most civically engaged youth vote ever. republicans realize that they can't win if young people are voting. but instead of changing the policies tonight reach, they're trying to restrict young people. >> and victor, one last question to you. the reason i did that rant on this issue in that book store wednesday night was because i feel that young voters, young

people are taken for granted. would you agree with that? the democratic party, the media, just take some voters for granted -- much more focused on all the voters? >> i'm grateful you did that rant. every single word you said was right. for a long time, i think young voters historically have been cast aside from the media, the democrat party, frankly both political parties. in 2018, we trickling didn't turn our own hands and turned out to vote. that's how democrats win, even during a trump presidency. in 2020, we turned out to vote in historic numbers. in 2022, we saw us prevent a red wave, and really kind of prevent this political tradition of the president political party overwhelmingly but defeated in the midterms. a lot of the time, what we're seeing from the media, and also from elected officials, is this kind of ignoring of young voters. but i think now, when young voters have proven not once, not twice, but three times that we are engaged, that we are going to vote, that we have to be paying attention to -- the media does a much better job at this, democrats are doing a better job of this.

i think president biden, to his credit, has really understood the importance of young voters and helping elect democrats. i think we're starting to see a change. but that's because young writers have been really mobilizing and also engaged in this process. >> the irony of the oldest president -- president ever seeing the value of young voters. thank you both for your time. appreciate it. up next, an important conversation with senator peever welch of vermont who -- handed a letter to president biden this week urging him to take action amid a severe -- surge of violence and the israeli occupied west bank. first, richard with had lines. >> maybe, good evening. -- stalled voting rights registration -- selma, alabama earlier today. that event honored the 1965 voting rights demonstration where white patrol officers violently attacked activists who are crossing the edmund pettus bridge.

>> we know we must get the votes in congress to pass the john lewis voting rights advancement act. and, the freedom to vote act. i made it clear, i will not let a filibuster obstruct the sacred right to vote, or any other right to vote from there. >> biden crossed the bridge with civil rights leaders, local politicians, and residents of salma, some old enough to remember the original match 58 years ago. more of the mehdi hasan show right after this break. that's why visionworks gives you 100 days to change your mind. it's simple. anything else i can help you with? like what? visionworks. see the difference. we all have a purpose in life - a “why.” no matter your purpose, at pnc private bank we will work with you every step of the way to help you achieve it. so let us focus on the how.

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that was the word used by an israeli general, not some palestinian activist, not some hoity-toity human rights group, not some pundit. yes, the israeli general in charge of troops in the occupied west bank use the word program to describe violent -- tore through the west bank town this week. dozens of palestinians were wounded, scores of houses and cards set ablaze, and at least one person was killed in the chaos. the frenzied hord, it's being reported, took to the streets after the killing of two israeli brothers, halal and yale, who were reportedly shot by palestinian gunmen last week. normally, this would be precisely the type of situation where politicians would step in.

they would use calm words to quell tensions and stop the cycle of violence. but that's not what happened. no. first, last sunday, israeli finance minister -- liked a tweet online calling for huwara to be, quote, wiped off the map. , then at a press conference on wednesday, doubled down, openly declaring, quote, i think the village needs to be wiped out. i think the state of israel should do it. it's worth noting that shortly thereafter, he walked back those remarks, putting them, quote, an emotional slip of the tongue. and in fairness, who among us hasn't accidentally threatened genocide in the past? but i digress. netanyahu took no formal action, but he did call the remarks inappropriate. president biden's state department spokesperson done condemned them as disgusting on wednesday, and now the administration is now debating whether or not to deny smotrich a visa ahead of his planned visit to d.c. this week.

some say this move would represent an unprecedented escalation in the already tense american israeli partnership, but is it really that harsh? is it unreasonable for the united states to expect the ministers of allied governments to not muse about programs and ethnic cleansing? but look, but this whole episode really shows is that for all the talk of shared values between our two countries, it doesn't seem like we have that much in common these days. say what you will about marjorie taylor greene, and i've said a lot, even she's never called for a democratic run city to be what wiped off the map. and nobody, not even the trump administration, was never convicted in a court of law here for, quote, racist incitement and backing a terrorist organization like smotrich's fellow far-right cabinet member -- ben-gvir was. our radicals and their radicals are in a different league. what's holding our partnership together? and why, why, do we continue to

fund benjamin netanyahu and smotrich in israel to the tune of three plus billion dollars a year with no strings attached? it's a question the senior senator from vermont is no longer asking quietly. >> if it government is acting in a racist way and they want billions of dollars for taxpayers in the united states, you say, sorry, it's unacceptable. you want your money, fine, this is what you have to do. >> he's right. i mean, is it too much to ask that we, the u.s. taxpayers, don't fund programs abroad? joining me now is the junior senator from vermont, democrat peter welch, when thursday hand delivered a letter to president biden warning of israeli efforts to illegally annexed the west bank and calling for the two state solution to be reinvigorated. senator waltz, thanks for coming on the show. i want to start with that letter you gave to the president following your own trip to israel in the occupied territories. in it, you say, quote, as far as the netanyahu government is

concerned, the two state solution is that. so senator, what can be done about that? what can president biden do? what can congress do? >> i can hear the senator. technical issue, is he muted? should we try that again? >> once i. now, i'm back. >> that's all right. we're about to hear the solution to peace in the middle east and you are muted. let's try again. what can you do, what can congress do? >> number one, that's gotta be a frank acknowledgment that the two state solution has become a fiction. we give lip service to it, we don't do anything to enforce it. yes. and secondly, what we have is, the president has got to take that seriously. and start advocating for it. what you see in israel right now, what we see in israel right now, is an extreme right wing government. in the clips you showed our chillingly indicative of what's

going on. also what's going on is that there's an attack on the rule of law. trying to weaken the supreme court. and even mike bloomberg, a very staunch supporter of israel, wrote about the parallels to israel if that happens. the bottom line here is that if we don't really embrace the two state solution, where there's gonna be an independent jewish democratic state and israel, and that's gonna be a separate palestinian state, then you're gonna have constant conflict. and what we're seeing now is only gonna get worse. >> senator, isn't the problem that whatever netanyahu does, however many settlements he builds, however many racist comments he makes about -- congressional democrats will always have his back. have a picture of your leader, senator schumer, all smiles and laughs, where the prime minister who appointed racists and fascists to his government. the kind of people who make marjorie taylor greene look

moderate. >> look, mehdi, here's the conflict. we've had a long-standing relationship with israel and want to maintain that. senator schumer, obviously, it's been a leader. but what i said to the prime minister when we were meeting with him is that the attack on the rule of law, weakening the courts, and then the annexation -- the addition of settlements that occurred, and the validation, legalization, of these illegal outposts, was gonna create political turmoil here. it's creating political turmoil in israel right now. but this issue is going to be bubbling up, and it's gonna become a real focus, a debate. and you heard senator sanders comments, where he's expressing that point of view. if we're gonna be successful, there's gotta be -- democratic values in the netanyahu government. there has to be a revitalization two state solution to make it real. >> so, this week, as i

mentioned, one of those racist fascists, israeli finance minister -- openly called for the wiping out of the west bank palestinian town. are you okay with the leading minister of the government -- coming to town this week saying this kind of stuff? genocidal stuff? shouldn't there be consequences? >> that should be repudiated and the strongest terms. i mean, he's calling for state action to attack palestinians in the west bank. and that should be repudiated. the whole policy should be repudiated. it's not just about smotrich. he's a minister in the netanyahu government that is doing things that no other government in israel has done. that, is a, attacked the judiciary, and there is widespread discontent in israel about that. hundreds of thousands of people demonstrating. by the way, there is a vibrant democracy here. let's not forget that. it's because we've got a very right-wing government with people like smotrich --

high ministerial post. >> senator, you mentioned bernie sanders earlier. would you support senator sanders's call to start debating conditioning aid to israel? but some conditions, put some strings on these billions we give to a government that's talking about killing palestinians, wiping out a town of them? >> i do not believe that the united states should be providing funds but end up being used to extend and expand settlements. or to legalize illegal outposts. that debate isn't gonna be joined. but it's already beginning, with the extreme action that we're seeing in the netanyahu government. i expect that will be debated in congress. >> senator peter welch of vermont, appreciate you taking time for us. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> coming up, new reporting on the insane conversations happening behind closed doors at fox after the 2020 election, and why they vindicate people

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billion dollar defamation lawsuit against fox has already produced some shocking revelations. last, week we learned that tucker carlson -- lore and graham didn't believe trump's 2020 election fraud lies, despite what they were saying to their viewers on air. they repeatedly texted each other mocking trump advisor sydney powell and rudy giuliani saying, quote, cindy's a complaint not. no one will work with her. ditto with rudy. -- robert murdoch's deposition in the case said he knew hosts on his network, quote, endorsed trump's big lie, and that he

himself didn't even believe in it. now, thanks to peter baker at the new york times this weekend, we've discovered that even the quote unquote street -- were saying one thing on air and another thing entirely behind the scenes. the new york times reports that any virtual election -- they both suggested it was not enough to call a state based on numerical calculations. nbc news has not independently heard the recording, but the times report that my column said on-call, quote, in a trump environment, the game is just very, very different. and then he went on to say, i know the statistics and the numbers, but there has to be, like, this other layer. now, let me ask you, what possible other layer could there be? other than the facts? you know, the numbers? look, i've long argued that we should not be calling fox a news organization because it just does not behave like one. given all that we've seen come out of this dominion lawsuit,

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welcome back. then it just streams, i am not mehdi, but i'm taking over the segment of his show, this segment where we usually agree on something outlandish and usually to do with the republican party. today, we're doing things differently. if you haven't been living under a rock this week, then you would know my good friend, mehdi, as written a book aptly titled when every argument. tonight, mehdi and i are going to debate, perhaps even argue, about something we fundamentally disagree on. with -- which comic series is the best. marvel comics, or as i was contend, dc comics. mehdi, joining me now on his own show. great to see you, my friend. congrats on the buck. i have it here, i've been preparing. i used it tonight. i'm gonna start with something you write about, chapter ten, setting a booby trap for you. do you believe marvel comics is the better series here?

>> i mean, ayman, with respect, you can tell me you're about to set a booby trap. because, then it's on a booby trap. you kind of mess that one up. >> just answer the question, my friend. >> look, it's marvel. i'll answer your question, ayman. the marvel movie universe is certainly far superior to the dc universe. i'm not sure anyone who's saying who's watched any of the movies can claim otherwise. the people are with me, ayman. the people are not with you. >> okay, well, every night on your show you claim to be for justice. you talk about justice, and, yet where you are, turning your back on dc comics, which literally has the justice lead. is this not hypocritical of you to abandon the very principles, the very comic but has the word justice and it? >> ayman, i think you're in danger of gaslighting some of our viewers. there's no justice in the dc comics. superman stores innocent

people. >> is he not called justice lead? >> is it not called the people's democratic republic of north korea? doesn't make it democratic just cause you give it a nice name. he destroys most of a city when he's fighting with -- it destroys innocent people. it doesn't follow the law at all. -- >> i follow people like the war. i followed people like for who are honorable man. honorable men like for. >> let's move on. >> captain america. i'm not moving anywhere -- >> i've plant my feet and i will not move. >> chapter three. so -- show your receipts, mehdi. i've got some right here. some of your tweets and your own words showing your support for captain america and the punisher. these are two figures who have become synonymous with the far-right in this country. january six rioters who wanted to overthrow our democracy. >> how dare you? >> hold, on picture a january

6th protester holding up a captain america shield. another waving the punisher flag. come on, mehdi. is that who you want to be associated? is this the company want to keep? >> this is outrageous. >> and so the question. >> this is a really low. ayman, this is low, even for you. to ruin captain america's name, he doesn't speak for these people. the people are with me, ayman. the people watch marvel movies more than d.c. movies. they're with captain america, the retirement, they're with or. they're not with >> you have been in wonder woman. >> superman. the journalist these is nothing but his own human powers to actually thwart evil. you standby tony spark and iron man? that's how you stand with? you pretend you're a progressive. >> he made his own equipment. >> all right, he's a spoiled bread. >> we'll have to agree to