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hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. two years and two months after what the fbi describes as an act of domestic terrorism, and acts of violence, vice president mike pence and his family ran for their lives. fox news' laura ingraham warned mark meadows that the events on january 6, quote, will ruin our legacy, a revision of history as those republicans described it under way. it's not enough to significant more what kevin mccarthy and tucker carlson are doing out of fear of amplifying their idiocy and radicalism. the truth is they don't care what we do. but we seek the clear and cold facts how republicans viewed january 6. >> i remember the day as a low
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point. >> i think it's inexcusable. completely 100% inexcusable. i don't care the motivation. >> it was a very disturbing day yesterday. i had a lot of anger as my colleagues that the capitol got overrun. these are anarchists and terrorists. steve, right, steve? we all know this is what happened after the truth bubbled out like some uncontrollable bubbly function in the hours after the insurrection, for his part, kevin mccarthy embraced "triumph" and the entire party cast critics of donald trump, purged them, really, anyone who saw january 6 the way they saw it in those moments. and then the republican water goes on to spend the last two years and two months, dwifting itself in knots, over a
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terrorism act denying truth and reality over and over again. last night, fox news' host tucker carlson is currently being sued for part of a lawsuit for $1.6 billion by dominion voting systems, in part for lying about the 2020 election. so, tucker carlson last night used the footage given to him by the speaker of the house kevin mccarthy, the same man who in the days after january 6th said privately that trump's conduct that day was indefensible, that it was wrong. and that trump should resign in disgrace, as opposed to being impeached or using the 25th amendment, because those two methods would take too long to get rid of him. last night, carlson took that footage and rolled a tale that depicts january 6 as peaceful. calling the insurrectionists as, quote, sightseers. even kevin mccarthy nose better,
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thanks to the harrowing testimony of the officers who fought to defend kevin mccarthy in the capitol on that day. >> i was aware enough to recognize i was at risk of being stripped of and killed with my own firearm. i was electrocuted again and again and again. with a taser. i'm sure i was screaming, but i don't think i could even hear my own voice. >> directly in front of me, a man seized the opportunity of my vulnerability. grabbed the front of my gas mask and used it to beat my head off the door. >> officers were being bloodied in the fighting. many were screaming, many were blinded and coughing and chemical coughing and chemical irritants sprayed in their faces. >> i, too, were being crushed by the rioters. i could feel myself losing oxygen and recalled thinking to myself, this is how i'm going to die, defending this. >> so let's look at what really
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happened that day. but just like donald trump and other far-right members of congress, some of them were so aware what they were doing was no bueno, they reportedly sought pardons for their roles in the insurrection, and the broader plot to overturn the 20 election result. but, no, the real victims in tucker carlson's warped mind, in his fun house mirror depiction of january 6 were the people who stormed the capitol, who did those things to those officers. here's what he had to say about something jamesed jacob chansley. he's better known as the quarterback shaman who was sentence to 40 months in prison for his role in the insurrection. >> to this day, there's dispute how chansley got into the capitol building, according to our review, the internal surveillance video, it is very clear what happened once he got inside. virtually every moment of his time inside the capitol was caught on tape. the tapes show that capitol police never stopped jacob
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chansley. they helped him. >> now, the truth is, there's no dispute over how chansley got into the capitol. here he is, in video released by the justice don't, entering the capitol less than 40 seconds after the building was breached. and in a letter obtained by nbc news capitol police chief tom manger called allegations that the officers helped in the insurrection is false. carlson's lies aired by the same network whose leadership, whose hosts and producers and journalists according to court filings by the economy dominion didn't them believe in the election fraud claims that led to the attack on the capitol in the first place. of course, deeply damaging to the democracy that's fuel to the fire of conspiracies that are linked to domestic violent extremist threats looming all over our country from san francisco, to new mexico, to washington. today, right now.
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but what carlson and fox news are doing also comes at the expense of the victims of january 6th and their families. here's what carlson said about falling capitol police officer brian sicknick. >> here's surveillance footage of sicknick walking in the capitol after he was supposedly murdered by the mob outside. by all experiences sicknick is healthy and vigorous. he's wearing a helmet. it's hard to imagine he was killed by a head injury. whatever happened to brian sicknick is very likely not the result of violence he suffered at the entrance of the capitol. >> ready? here are the facts. autopsy concluded that brian sicknick suffered two strokes and played a role in the commission. and. two men pleaded guilty for assault sicknick on january 6. a statement from his family reads in part, quote, what will it take to silence the lies from people like carlson? what will it take to convince
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people that the january 6th insurrection was very real, was very violent and that the event was orchestrated by a man every bit as corrupt and eving as vladimir putin. the sicknick family would love nothing more than to have brian back with us and to resume our normal lives. fictitious news outlets like fox and its rabid followers will not allow that. every time the pain of that day seems to have ebbed a bit, organizations like fox rip over the wounds wide open again and we're frankly sick of it. former congressman and former adviser to the january 6th select committee denner riggleman joins, articles rnc chair michael steele is here. and frank deluzzi joins us. to denver riggleman, to you, first. your thoughts. >> you know, it's crazy when i
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watched that, i tried to explain it to the american people in simple ways, when you're talking about january 6, it's not just the data, not that we saw the videos, but we have emails, text messages, emails, we had attachments, we had interviews from testimony. the fact is when you have something like tucker carlson making things up it's like a bar fight. from 10:00 to 12:00 at night, a bouncer for so long, everybody is peaceful. at 12:01, those people commit a crime. i just find it laughable talking about jacob chansley the qanon shaman going through the hall. with the guy wearing no shirt with horns. he was going to attack them in the capitol. common sense tells you that a crime doesn't have to happen, you know, at the time when it's peaceful. a crime happens when the violence actually happens. and it's just ridiculous to
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think that. the last thing with carlson that's been on my mind isn't the dominion case which was very thorough. out of the data they found from the dominion case for fox. it makes me think there are other cases out there. you look at tucker and this video, is he responsible. and i just saw hunter biden and his team actually put in an evidence preservation request for years of data. i wonder if you're saying what's happening with the video on january 6. you're seeing what's happening with dominion and hunter biden and his preservation requests to fox news, you really wonder what fox news is hiding. and how much data is actually there to identify what they've been doing so long. so the caller was so thorough at the beginning, we can talk about all day the facts are manipulated by tucker carlson. we can talk about how ridiculous
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fox news is right now, it's really a propaganda channel. but i wonder how much exposure does fox have dmonl with dominion, but what tucker carlson is doing with video, but individuals like hunter biden also who has been dragged for years. i'm watching this as a progression, i'm wondering if the hunter biden team knows something we don't. certainly, dominion did. i'm wondering about tucker carlson and the exposure he has. >> taking this down the legal path, i'll stay here with you, denver. i was wondering as i watched that, what the legal team defending fox news in their dominion case thought. but i was also wondering if anyone is looking at the alex jones/sandy hook lawsuit. and whether there are a group of people who can mount similar arguments about, you know, the malicious, reckless disregard for the truth. i mean, you think what the sicknick family has gone
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through. it's all well documented. and the lies continue. while they have a very exposed, call it, left flank, i guess, for lack of a better word on the dominion case which even some fox folks will privately acknowledge. and do see the dominion case as the beginning of the beginning, of fox news' legal challenges, denver? >> i don't know what you -- i don't know how you hide that kind of evidence and data in perpetuity, right? it's very difficult. when you look at sandy hook and the misrepresentations there. and you look at what tucker carlson is doing with the actual january 6th video, what's interesting to me, not only, he's misrepresenting the police officer's family. you saw the sicknick family statement. my lord and what some of the officers, the capitol police, you have to wonder what they're going through. and how that's being misrepresented because here's what we have, we don't just have the january 6 interviews and
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thousands of interviews, we have the data which you can cross-reference that data. for me, i'm wondering about the misrepresentations, that's why i'm wondering about the lies, dominion all the way to hunter biden and the january 6 manipulation of that, and you think, wait a second are people just allowed to lie? are they just allowed to misrepresent the data? we do know techniques that we can identify, also the time line of that data. so for me, as a geek, i'm looking at this, it seems difficult for me for fox to wiggle out of that chain of evidence and that data and misrepresentations of individuals which you're looking at now with the january 6 video and the other individuals, you know, biden. but i think you're also looking at just the sort of this avenue
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avalanche of data evidence which i don't know how youing with out of it. it's actually stunning to me when i look at what's happening now. >> frank, i want to share with our viewers a letter from the u.s. capitol police chief tom manger to capitol police. it reads in part, some people select from run it now, hours of video clips that seemingly support the narrative they want to push, those of you who were here on january 6, those of you who were in the fight, those of you who ensured that no member of congress was hurt, those of you that contributed to the effort that allowed this country's legislative process continue, you know first hand what actually happened. you felt like hell on january 6 to risk your lives and the constitution and everything that your country stands for. you along with law enforcement partners saved every member of congress and the staff. tv cameras will not record the truth. the justice system will. truth and justice are on our side. and then, frank, i just want to
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show you something that was interesting in this trump republican party. speaker mcconnell chose to associate himself with chief manger, not tucker carlson. let me show you that. >> with regard to the presentation on fox news last night, i want to associate myself entirely with the opinion of the chief of the capitol police. about what happened. on january 6th. clearly, the chief of the capitol police, in my view, correctly describes what most of us witnesses first hand on january 6th, so that's my reaction to it. it was a mistake, in my view, for fox news to depict this in a way that's completely add
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variance with what our chief law enforcement official here at the capitol thinks. >> now, we don't throw parades for people who just can't come out and say it's bullshit, hiding behind the chief of police is fine for today. i guess that are counts as courage in today's republican party, frank. but interesting that you have -- there's no divide on earth one, where all democrats, all independents and a growing swath of republicans live. but there is an emerging split on the right where tucker carlson, kevin mccarthy and donald trump have a closed circuit that is deeply invested in revising the history, as tucker carlson and mitch mcconnell and kevin mccarthy and donald trump all know what actually went down. i mean, the january 6th committee makes clear that trump knew he lost. i mean, the evidence is so abundant, it makes you want to
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skip over this part of the story. but i wonder what you make of, and what impact it will have on this climate to the most powerful republican in the senate align himself with law enforcement? >> yeah, i'm grateful not only for the chief's statement which was absolutely necessary, although sad that it was necessary. but i'm grateful for the endorsement of that statement by senator mcconnell. because, really, if there's any, any benefit at all, and it's hard to see any to what tucker carlson is doing this week, it's that it's causing people to choose sides. we're choosing upsides here. the sides are true for fiction, law and order, or crime and disorder? what side are you on? a peaceful election and transition of power, or violence because you don't like what happened in a lawful vote? those are the sides that tucker's choosing, causing
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people to choose. and so, it's not just about fabrication, it's not just about, oh, i'm showing a balanced portrayal of what happened on january 6. but rather, i've heard some people say, well, he's showing just the calm before the storm. he's showing the calm without the storm. that's a problem. because it's the storm that is the focus of now 1,000 -- we're officially at 1,000 arrests regarding violence and trespass and obstruction of congress at the capitol on january 6th. speaking of that charge, one of the people, the qanon shaman who is the subject of about two minutes of tucker carlson's clip with him wandering around, looking for doors and police escorting, trying to figure out what he's up to. trying to do the right thing. and not get into a fist fight that could lead to a fist fight with 2,000 other people and
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they're outnumbered. so if you understand the psychology of crowds and law enforcement sand crowd control, be careful about the battle you pick. because you could find yourself flat on your back real quickly and outnumbered. so, let's talk about the qanon shaman. marjorie taylor greene, after tucker's clip last went on social media and said, well, clearly, the shaman needs a new trial. he was doing that. there is no new trial to have. you know why he didn't have a new trial? he pled guilty. he was read the charges against him. he was shown the evidence against him and he said, yeah, i did do that, and i regret it. guilty. no charge necessary. so that's what we're dealing with is a complete absence of truth. and what's it about? is it really minimizing what happened on january 6? what's the really purpose we don't only have the potential existent threat by dominion lawsuit, but we have a former
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president who may be looking at indictment, for what? inciting the violence on january 6. if you minimize what happened on january 6th and it's a collective yawn, then why are we indicting the former president for it? that's where this is heavy. >> michael steele, again, i really want to root this first conversation about this news and the facts. and here they are, again, thanks to the dominion filing. what tucker really thinks about donald trump, quote, after january 6, trying to thread the needle between the truth and pressure from his viewers and sponsors became even more difficult. late on january 6th, carlson texted with phifer that trump is a demon destroyer. but he's not going to destroy us. on january 26th, carlson invited his leading sponsor mike lindell on his show, where lindell was
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on the show. this is the legal exposure that denver talked about. but this is all of this intentional and willful participation and a lie. that, again is very much at play here. he described trump as a quote, demonic force, a destroyer. and the only person who benefits, i guess if tucker is officially entering the 2024 primary, maybe tucker benefits. but the only person who benefits from this revision of their own view on january 6 is donald trump. why is that so imperative that he's exposing himself and his company to legal peril by doing this, michael steele? >> so, there's so much. >> take your time. >> so much, so much i want to say about the events of the last 24 hours. and i'm so happy i have my buddy denver on one side of me, and my
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lawyer frank on the other. because -- oh, my gosh, nicholl, let's begin with the last point, demonic force, that means tucker must be possessed or tucker is one of those demonic creatures that enable thats for. i tend to go for the latter. what we're seeing on so many levels is a preparation, so keep that point in mind because i want to go back to how you began this conversation. you started off with sound clips of republicans saying they were anarchists and terrorists. that's what they were then. so, what are they now? what changed that makes them patriots, makes them, you know, the saviors, the victims, the
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martyrs, the sightseers? what's changed in that is this kind of narrative that comes out of this demonic force that's perpetuated by those demonic angels. those demonic sycophants that keep pushing this. this is the great setup, january -- what you're seeing tucker do and what marjorie taylor greene, lauren boebert, you pick the clowns in the clown car and go from there. they're all doing the same thing. they're setting up the next part of the narrative. whether it is around donald trump's potential indictment. whether it's around some other thing that they deem as appropriate catalyst to perpetuate the violence. and to further foment the noise
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that somehow they're the victims, that somehow, those 1,000 people who have been arrested and charged and have been -- many of whom have now been prosecuted and are in jail, that somehow their violence, their behavior, was okay. and that's -- that needs to be protected, because they were doing the right thing. and to those of us who look at that bad behavior want to call it what it is, and hold them accountable for it, that we're wrong. it's twisting of the narrative around january 6th has been an ongoing effort, now culminating in the absolute, i think, disgraceful attempt by the speaker toe ingratiate himself with the likes of fox news and tucker, on behalf of president trump. and marjorie taylor greene to get the chair.
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that he would give him this evidence, that he would give him this information that could then be cherry picked into nightly narratives to rewrite the story that we all witnessed live on january 6. to make us believe that somehow we're the fools, that we got -- that we're the stupid ones. we're the ones who bought the loaf of rotting bread, right? and so, what we need to do now is guard ourselves against this. and it's going to require something -- i don't know americans are prepared to really put into play. and that is, an honest assessment that we are schooling ourselves by buying this craziness. when you look at the twitter feeds, you have, i haven't -- all the people said, i told you, i told you this was a conspiracy. i told you that donald trump won the election.
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that's the bs that they want us to now make real every day. so that when the trigger's finally pulled, in my view, thank you, tucker. you're the reason why. you're the reason why the next january 6th happens. you're the reason why the next escalation of people responding, because you're telling them, by pulling these snippets out, that the shaman is the victim. even though i could get him on just breaking and entering. because i grew up in d.c. you just don't to walk in the capitol. and you damn sure don't get to do it when you break the glass and not pay a consequence for it. so, we need to be honest about what's happening and unfolding right now over at fox. because you're not going to shut it down. the dominion thing -- last point -- the dominion thing, let's be honest, a $1.6 billion judgment is one thing. they're not losing advertisers over at fox.
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tucker carlson is allowed to stay on the air because the board wants him on the air. the owner wants him on the air because the money's still rolling in. so, take a $1.6 billion hit. i'm still making money. i'm good. i'll pay you the $1.6 billion. you want to trouble it, fine, because that's say week of advertising we're going to get. we can then play more of the victim. so, we have to understand how this is 360 here. and recognize, if we don't step in sass citizens, and put an end to this, oh, baby, it's not going to be pretty. going into a presidential cycle with donald trump out there beating the drums again? come on. just -- just -- anyway, we got do get it right, because we're getting it wrong right now, by letting this perpetuate itself. >> we got nothing but time today. i need all of you to stick around. when we come back, one of the
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other delusions, in the so-called bombshells that tucker carlsons tried to weave into his tales about january 6 or his audience was that the surveillance footage of sprinting republican senator josh hawley was somehow a sham. we'll speak to a staff member for the 1-6 committee was part of the team that combed through the hours and hours of footage for fox news. plus, there were some republicans on the hill today who actually did call bs on what tucker carlson tried to spin on his program, that january 6th is nothing more but peaceful sightseers. we'll show you the reaction from capitol hill. later on the program, we're waiting for more information to be made public any minute in dominion $1.6 billion lawsuit against fox. we'll bring it to you as soon as it becomes public.
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and we'll take a look at how carlson's continued sustained lying about the results of the 2020 election and insurrection might impact that lawsuit. all of those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere today. yeah you are, because it's a big deal, when you get a big deal. wayfair deals so big that you might get a big head. because with savings so real... you can get your dream sofa for half the price. wayfair. it's always a big deal. ♪ wayfair, you've got just what i need ♪ my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪ ♪
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you know what they say, that a person who lies about the little things will most likely lie about the big things, too. case in point today, we all saw the video of senator josh hawley in what became humiliating fashion sprinting from the rioters on january 6th. near hours after he riled them up with his fist raised in the air. a photo of which he would later
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shamelessly use to fund-raise. again, we all saw the video with our own eyes. right? there it is. yet, tucker carlson now insists, what irony, that the video itself is a lie. because different surveillance video angles suggest there were other lawmakers running ahead of him, behind of him, in the middle of a riot. you don't say. well, when you scratch your head over what this is actually about, josh hawley fleeing a mob is never really part of the story that the january 6th select committee was trying to tell. it was merely, what should we call it, a karma moment, if you will, for a senator that raised a fist, riled up the rioters and put all of his workouts to use by sprinting away from them. but tucker carlson somehow posits this as something else
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going on. joining us, staff producer for the january 6th select committee, part of the team responsible for watching, curating and sharing with the public the footage that we saw during the hearings. he's an award-winning journalist. take us inside what you think was going on. and if you saw tucker carlson's clips, what's your thoughts about what he's showing the public? >> well, i mean, as we've seen before and as you said in the opening with the dominion lawsuit, that's going on, apparently, you know, there are certain people at fox that are okay with knowingly pushing election -- lies about the 2020 election. so this is all narrative to downplay, you know, the events that happened on january 6th. and an attempt to whitewash. and also an attempt to dabble in conspiracy theories. and, you know, if he can show
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videos of people not acting yr house and sit there i break and watch tv, i've still broken into your house, and if these were just peaceful sightseer tourists in the capitol, why was josh hawley running in the first place? >> right. and i mean, the committee, i thought, made extremely careful, but powerful use of numbers of lawmakers, democrats and republicans from the house and the senate, including their staff, stripping off their pins and running together. and i thought the point of the hawley clip was not that he was running faster or frer or alone, but that he was the one who riled them up, and he, too, realized how dangerous they were to him. what is sort of the fact-check on what the pictures are supposed to convey?
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>> well, that's absolutely, you know, part of it. and, you know, they tried to spin last night that, you know, we just showed only him running, but that's not true. because right after that, we showed he was in fact with other lawmakers who were fleeing the violence. and trying to get, to you know, a secure -- a secure place. so, you know, again, he can cherry-pick these moments and try to spin his narrative. but people know what they've seen with their own eyes. >> now, i want to read you some of the evidence that the committee presented to the public. these were text messages sent by fox news host, republican members and trump's own family to mark meadows, the white house chief of staff, quote, he's got to condemn this shit, asap. donald trump jr., potus has to come out and cause protesters to dissipate. potus needs to calm this shit
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down. mark, i was told there was a shooter on the first floor of the capitol, please tell the president to calm people, marjorie taylor greene. i'm very worried about the next 48 hours, sean hannity. mark, this assault on the capitol is dangerous. jay lutz. and potus should go on the air and defuse this. fix this now, representative chip roy. what do you think of the broader effort to abandon what they saw, the president's son, marjorie taylor greene, with their own eyes and rewrite history? >> well, i thing it's desperate and it's dangerous, you know, these kinds of false narratives and conspiracy theories are, you know, the things that fuel extremists and people who have get caught up in these conspiracy theories to, you know, commit crimes, possibly commit acts of violence.
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and so this is say problem. and so are we seeing right now, are people going to use this in the future, that they will use this false narrative. that they will use some of those conspiracy theories to justify their actions in the near future. >> denver, let me bring you in, because the two of you are a most valuable sort of insights into the broader look at this footage, and of all of the data and all of the facts. denver, could you have predicted that the facts wouldn't break the fever? i mean, you're sort of ahead of where the republican party is going. but to read the facts what they say to one another, to broadcast the facts as michael steele said it's steve scalise who calls the insurrectionists theorist. steve scalise wanting to oust the speaker pelosi, could you
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have predicted that the republican party would reach this post-truth, post-facts, even as they see it and say it? >> nicolle, you know, i don't like to take credit, you know. but i'll tell you, you reading the text, you know, our team was the first to really break those down and identify the names hooked to those texts. so, seeing that, how awful it was at the time it looked like the qanon conspiracy theory reached every level of the republican party and saturated it. and that satirical thinking is not going to go away. i tweeted months ago it's going to get worse, a lot worse. and injecting facts into fantasy might be a way to get votes. here's what i say, nicolle, everybody watching tucker and
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believing what's put out there, probably doesn't watch the january 6th committee hearings. when you're looking at social media streams, whether television, you may have people out there showing off the pictures from not only that day, january 6th, but awful pictures of laptops. we have awful things where they manipulated the facts of what's actually happening in the world today. right? talking about covid, when you're talking about covid denialism. the new report, when you talk about the globalists, when you talk about the deep state, when you talk about the storm, when you talk about the great awakening? right, you can go down the line. i thought when individuals would come out of that flat spin, what we have, everybody is, you know, snorting this fantasy coke powder, right? and then running around screaming that somehow they've seen the light or they've seen the truth. and i don't even know what to do. i thought we could have this fact-based bludgeon we 0 could
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drag the line and say these are the facts. this is the baseline. then when you have somebody like tucker come out and listening to this interview about watching other people run. you have people incredibly masculine, put itting their pist fists up in the air, and then oh, shit, i better run. i better get out of here. then they make excuses for their own cowardice. i never seen individuals scream that they're so tough until the time comes and then they'll lie to get out of it. i think it's a head scratcher for anybody who thought they were conservatives republicans, out in the party now, and they did leave me. but again, with all of the stuff coming out, i think we lost a huge part of the fact-based portion of the gop. to me, that's a shame. because there were great people there. i think a lot of people picked power over facts. i think they picked their office over the people. i think it's evidence today you're seeing what's happening
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with tucker carlson on january 6th, i think it's evident what's happening to other people that can be digitally destroyed, whether it's through information that's not true or laptops or other types of things. and once you get into that cycle it's hard to get out of it, again, the people that watched tucker i guarantee you did not watch the hearings or did not read the committee report. >> denver riggleman and dan prozgoda, thank you very much. we'll talk about capitol hill and how it's being read by lawmakers. it might surprise you. e you.
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pods, your personal moving and storage team. were -- yeah, there were a lot of people in the capitol at the time who i think were in fear for their lives. so, however you want to describe it, but it was an attack on the capitol. >> i didn't listen to tucker carlson, i generally don't. but my recollection of the day is it was not just some rowdy peaceful protests of boy scouts. i think that breaking through glass windows and doors to get into the united states capitol against police is a crime. >> i think it's [ bleep ] -- i was here. i was down there. i saw maybe a few tourists, a few people who got caught up in things. but when you see police barricades breached and police officers assaulted, all of that,
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you had to be in close proximity to it. if you were just a tourist, you should have lined up at the visitors center and came in, in an orderly basis. >> and surprising on the hill today, several prominent conservative republican senators joining all of the democrats in their outrage about tucker carlson's segment last night, revealing new january 6 security footage. and calling what transpired that day, the riot at the u.s. capitol january 6, 2021, not a violence insurrection or peaceful gathering of sightseers. what tucker says in his own words, again, sightseers, just taking in the view as they were escorted by police around the u.s. capitol. as you heard from some of the most conservative senators in the body, people who were there that day, the day that was anything but in a statement released after the tucker carlson show, the former chairman of the january 6th
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committee bennie thompson lashed out at the speaker saying this, it was a dereliction of duty for kevin mccarthy to give tucker carlson carte blanche access to the speaker decided it was more important to give in to a fox host who spews lies and prop band ga than to protect the staff in it. let's bring in ali vitali, michael steele and frank figliuzzi are here. michael steele, i have to give it, as a talented navigator, however you want to say it, they are convicted of seditious conspiracy. you could describe them as seditious conspirators, couldn't you? i guess this is my problem, michael steele, can't even throw
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a parade for anyone who tells the truth, because even the truth comes out so excruciatingly muddled for most of them. >> yeah, it's the parsing. it is so -- it is so, you know, sickening in moments like this. because that's not what the country wants to hear. i don't need you to parse the politics. and how you feel in the moment. i want you just be honest. call the spade what it is, right? that's the card that's been played. the january 6 card has been played. and so, now, this talk about what's on the table. what's on the table is we don't have this conversation, senators, all of you, with, you know, ali and other intrepid journalists in your face asking the question what tucker played last night, if the speaker of the house doesn't give it to him. doesn't just say, here, take it and do with it as you wish. what the hell do you think you're going to get when you do
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that? you're going to get reporters every damn day, from now until when it stops, asking you senator, you republican senators, hey, what about this? do you believe that these things that tucker carlson is saying is true? is fox correct about rewriting the history and the record that you experienced in the capitol on that day? so, i appreciate senator tillis, he was straight up saying it was bs, right? what we're hearing right now. but that still doesn't negate why you're being asked the question. and those senators have to account for that too. the republican caucus has to faf its own opened this pandora's box and now all of you are going to have to play. all of you have to pay by asking and answering the questions around what tucker is doing.
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and why on god's green earth besides just an outward, just cold hearted, you know, craven greedy approach for power, wanting to sit in the chair, would you even make that promise to turn those tapes over to one person what, a., is not a journalist, b., is a propagandaist and a liar, and c, a sick ofant for trumpism and not expect you'll get a rewrite of history. >> ali, tell me inside of the vibe today around tucker carlson's broadcast. >> i think it is telling that they're willing on the senate side at least, senate republican side engage on the tucker carlson of it all. but where they're not engaging is nt owe the speaker mccarthy of it all. and michael is right, you wouldn't have these tucker segments without mccarthy deciding that he's the person who should have the exclusive
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with these tens of thousands of hours of footage. and so i think that is a really important distinction that we're making here. and i also think it is right that you look at the people who are condemning the way that tucker is going about this. this gaslighting around january 6. but at the same time, all of these senators had this information back on january 7th and those immediate weeks after and many of them did not vote to convict in the second impeachment. so these are condemnations now years later but they had teeth two years ago. >> exactly. we'll get frank's take and give him the last word on the other side of a quick break. don't go anywhere. k. don't go anywhere. we depend on each other a lot. she's the rock of the family. she's the person who holds everything together. ♪♪ it's a battle, you know i'm going to be there. keytruda and chemotherapy meant treating my cancer with two different types of medicine.
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oh! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ we're back with ally, michael and frank. how does the content on tucker carlson's broadcast get fed back into would-be domestic violent extremists and their circles? >> you know, we're all in the eco chamber so the people who will get this and already are blasting it out on social media and they are, are going to see this over and over again, they are talking about it. i've seen it already in chat rooms of extremists who are saying, look, we know that this is the truth, we're getting to use it for fodder, for future acts and propaganda. but there is some good news that i think we should end on here and i want to expand on an issue that michael raised and that is
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if you buy the adage there is no such thing as bad publicity and then tucker getting all of our attention today and maybe for the rest of the week because he promises a whole week of this. then that is good for him. but here is the thing. here is the thing. we're talking about it in a really bad way for him. this floped on on his monday night with a week filled of setting the record straight. he chose to highlight a clip of the qanon shaw man around the building and pled guilty and senator josh hawley couldn't run faster than we thought. that is it. ifs that what he's got, then i say this -- truth is surviving. truth is up against the ropes. it is taken a beating, and a beating by john durham and jim jordan and his so-called subcommittee on weaponization and taken a beating this week on tucker carlson, but it is
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flopping. all of those so far have flopped, truth still remains. >> frank, that is perfect note to end on. we'll have to cover the most of the flop club. jim jordan and tucker carlson. ally, thank you for joining us with your reporter. michael steel and frank figliuzzi, thank you for spending the hour with us. up next, the dominion lawsuit and how tucker carlson rewriting of the 2020 election could impact their defamation case. a very short break for us. do not go anywhere. when you're ready to go, but static says “whoa.” try bounce lasting fresh. bounce lasting fresh.
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some of you have been asking why i'm not covering the dominion voting machine lawsuit against fox involving the unproven claims of election fraud in 2020 and it is absolutely a fair question. i believe i should be covering it. it is a major media story given my role here at fox. er but the company has decided that it is part of the organization being sued, i can't talk about it or write about it
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at least for now. i extremely disagree with that decision but as an employee i have to abide by it. >> hi, again, everyone. it is 5:00 in new york. fox was given this explanation from howard kurtz, a sign that they recognize the seriousness of the $1.6 billion lawsuit filed by dominion voting systems over fox's harmful broadcasting of lies about election fraud. and yet, and yet this massive litigation hanging over fox's head, what does the network's most watched anchor decide to do? well, fan the flames even more. last night as we've been talking about in last hour, tucker carlson aired security footage from the deadly capitol insurrection and falsely depicted that day as a peaceful gathering. but before he showed any footage, carlson did exactly what his network is being sued for. he lied and sowed doubt in the
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results of free and fair 2020 american presidential election. watch. >> the protesters were angry. they believed that the election they had just voted in had been unfairly conducted. they were right. in retrospect, it is clear that 2020 election was a grave betrayal of american democracy given the facts that have since emerged about that election, no honest person can deny it. >> unfairly conducted life long republican chris krebs called it the most secure election in american history. no honest person can deny it was a grave betrayal said tucker. i guess he's not talking about these life long republicans. >> i told him that the stuff that his people were shuttling out to the public was [ bleep ]. that the claims of fraud were [ bleep ]. >> it was most litigated and most scrutinized and the most audited, it was put through the ringer from so many different
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directions. >> our system of government has processes to determine who will be sworn in on january 20th. the electoral college has spoken. so today i want to congratulate president-elect joe biden. >> it is over. the final thing, joe biden, eye traveled the world with joe, i hoped he lost and i prayed he would lose, he won. he's the legitimate president of the united states. >> so it was a galling but not surprising decision by fox news and tucker carlson to decide to stoke more distrust in the election last night. it is something that he's been doing for last two years. as aaron blake at "the washington post" writes, the flourish was characteristic of carlson's show gesturing toward a conspiracy without backing it up with any real facts stating that anybody who disagrees must be lying. it was also nonspecific enough to give carlson plausible
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deniable that he was talking about mass voter fraud or voting machines versus, say, the mail balloting processies that some on the right have cast as unfair. but the thrust was clear. at this hour we should tell you we are waiting for more information to be made public in the form of new filings and releases in the dominion lawsuit as soon as they are off the presses they'll be rushed out to me and we'll bring it to you as soon as it is available. in the meantime, tucker carlson deciding last night on the eve of these disclosures to continue to lie to his audience about the 2020 election and the insurrection. as his network is deeply embroiled in a lawsuit about just that. so that is where we start with our favorite reporters and friends. joyce vance is here from the university of alabama. and andrew weissmann is here, former justice department prosecutor and senior member of robert mueller special counsel
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investigation. renal anderson jones, a law professor at the university of utah and a first amendment scholar studying the legal issues where the courts intersect and former official rick stengel joins us. they are all msnbc contributors. andrew wiseman, i start with you, and i wonder if you think there is any pause or angst about the broadcast last night or if you think it is a dime for a dollar, keysera, keysera kind ever decision. >> when i watched it last night, i was thinking about the in-house and outside lawyers representing fox in the dominion suit and the clip you just played where they said, we're not going to comment on this because we're in the middle of basically what could be a life and death civil suit. because the amount of money here, it is not just $1.6 billion. there is also a potential for
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punitive damages and the evident that we've seen so far suggested that that is a lively possibility. and so i was thinking about this decision where they say well we're not going to talk directly about that lawsuit and the voting. but they yet have tucker carlson, who may very well be a witness in that trial, say things that are just as misleading and phony. and i was sitting there, if i were dominion's lawyers, i was thinking they must have been licking their chops at what was been being said because it reminds me of donald trump that said things that will make his legal case that much worse. and it is one thing just like donald trump to spin on the air and to the public, but donald trump may soon be facing a court of law, in a criminal context.
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he is certainly facing it in a civil context and fox news is going to be facing its reckoning in a civil case. and so all of those are locations where facts actually matter. so if you want to spin publicly, that you could do that, but it is going to hurt you in a court of law and i think that tucker carlson really hurt himself and fox news by saying things that are really fodder for cross-examination. >> so, rennel, i think absent the dominion lawsuit, i'm not sure this would have risen to a level where other than damaging democracy it would have been our top story today. because fox does what fox does with reckless disregard for the health of our democracy. but a company like dominion has different legal prerogatives and i want to read this from the filing about the kinds of decisions, editorial decisions fox was making after it knew it was being sued for $1.6 billion
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by dominion voting systems. on the the afternoon of january 6, then president trump dialed into lou dobbs show attempting to get on the air. but fox executives vetoes that decision. why? not because of a lack of newsworthiness. january 6 was an important event by any measure. president trump not only was the sitting president, he was the key figure that day. but fox refused to allow president trump on the air that evening because it would be irresponsible to put him on the air and it could impact a lot of people in a negative way. talk about that argument and whether it could be extended to the decision to do what fox news did last night. >> yeah, well, i think there is an interesting triangleation between fox viewership and trump that really has become centerpiece of this dominion suit. the sort of through line here is
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the -- the desire on the part of fox to woo trump supporters and to appease trump supporters and that same theme is happening now and may be haunting fox a little bit in some of the ways that we've just described. fox's lawyers have defending in this libel suit in large part on the grounds that fox had this healthy mix of journalistic inquisitiveness, and internal skepticism about some of the election denial claims. and that skepticism portion of the argument really doesn't sit well with donald trump. i mean, we saw this actually in the immediate aftermath of the making public of rupert murdoch deposition in this case, in the dominion case. fox had him deposed. he was deposed and the -- and in
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the immediate aftermath of that, trump took to the social media and was castigating both rupert murdoch and fox, calling them weak and ineffective. and what you see is that same gravitational pull that dominion said drove fox to try to placate trump supporter viewers and in the initial instance, may also be hanging all over fox coverage decisions right now. fox is in a really strange place, sort of in between a rock and a hard place with trump actively urging it to lean in to election denialism, at the same time that fox is having to litigate the deliberateness of those lies. >> rennel, is it something that is relevant in the -- i mean, listen,s in an ex-republican as someone who has seen fox from
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the outside, it is a treasure trove of revelations for me to understand the inside workings of fox news. there is some people i used to know well from my time in republican politics and to understand the levers and the deep, dark hard-wired cynicism of what gets on the air is in valuable. but if you could slice off the legal piece of this. is it legally significant that rupert murdoch on down accepted the conclusions of the fox news decision desk on november 7th. they understand joe biden was the duly and legitimately elected president of the united states and yet here is their body of coverage. not just in the days leading up to january 6, but including last night. is that legal exposure for fox in any context? >> well, the portions that are legally significant for the dominion suit are the portions
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that target dominion itself. lies that dominion said that it could prove were told about it, about the role of that voting software and the conspiracy theories that dominion said were deliberately shared on fox programming. the right context of what we might think of a broader coverage of election denialism and endorsement of election denialism is certainly atmospherically important to the suit. it is the true narrative that dominion has chosen to present here for knowing falsity, putting out to a jury that everyone, from top to bottom, out to fox news, had a sense of the falsity of these particular claims and advanced them any way because election denialism was
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appealing to the palette of his viewer is a powerful story line for the reckless disregard for the truth. >> and joyce, in that vain here is more from the last dominion filing made public. and any moment we're expected to see more of the exhibits, i believe, from previous filings. but this is from a february 16th filing from dominion. quote, by november 18th, tucker carlson told laura ing gram, sidney powell is lying by the way. i caught her. it is insane. she responded, quote, sydney is a complete nut. no one will work with her. ditto with rudy. that would be giuliani. carlson replied, quote, it is unbelievably offensive to me. ow viewers are good people and they believe it. and i want to understand, joyce, what the significance is again of sidney powell was only on tv because she was peddling the lie that these hosts knew to be just that, a lie.
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they also understand that their viewers believes it. how do those sorts of peeks into their iner understanding of the facts play as this lawsuit goes forward? >> right. so this is absolutely the key point in this lawsuit for fox. this is the hurdle that they face. and rennel does a great job of explaining this is dominion lawsuit. so the defamation here would be fox defamation of dominion and her voting machines, not they are person administration of the -- the person administration of the big lie. then the claims aren't view and in a libel case where you have a public figure as the plaintiff and for better or worse the courts have decided that little dommin john voting machines as a public figure, they have to prove that fox acted with actual malice. that the statements that fox made were made with knowledge of their falsity, or with reckless
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disregard for their truth. and usually when you have this sort of a defamation case, you're in that reckless disregard sort of prong. and that is not what is going on here. the evident that dominion has is that fox absolutely knew that it wasn't true, that their internal communications proved that. and you know, nicolle, a long time ago in washington, d.c. as a young lawyer, i participated in a defamation case involving pat robertson who was then a presidential candidate and this burden of proof was so high, this need that he had to prove that the people who he said had defamed him had acted with actual malice. and the burden is even higher than in most civil lawsuits whereas we know from your explanations daily, the burden of proof is usually the preponderance of the evidence. but here for actual malice, it is clear and convincing evidence, it is something that almost approaches the standard in the criminal justice system,
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you just don't see that in these sorts of defamation cases. here at dominion, i think it has it. we could see some of these claims be dismissed on summary judgment. these are the motions that we're now seeing that are filed and dominion is saying to the court, there are no factual issues here left for the jury to resolve. these internal communications make it very clear that they knew there was falsity. that they acted with actual malice. the only thing left for anyone to decide is damages. you don't see that in these cases. i think we might see it as to some claims here. >> andrew weissmann, what is the legal battening down the hatches happening at fox news. there was a blistering statement that came out today from the family of officer brian sicknick about tucker carlson again targeting the officer with lies about his condition or things he couldn't possibly have known saying he was perfectly healthy. he would die from injuries sustained that day. laura ingraham has called the
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officers actors, given them various awards for their acting chops in her view, i guess, to the degree that she's capable of making those judgments. and i was thinking and wondering if there is any parallel or echo to the defamation lawsuit that the sandy hook parents brought against alex jones when the lies are told so often and with such knowing sort of intent to disinform an audience. >> that is a wonderful analogy. it is heartbreaking because of what the families went through. where i see it and a real similarity and i hadn't thought that until you mentioned it, is as joyce said, we could be -- we could be seeing a case where the judge said there are no issues and no trial. because we're just going to go right to damages and we'll just have a hearing on that.
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but dominion, i think, really wants a trial. and the same way that the sandy hook families wanted a trial. they wanted evidence to get out there. they wanted everyone to see how false this was. in other words, yes, it is about money, too. but that is not the main goal. and so the reason that fox is in such sort of such deep trouble is that the plaintiff here dominion has ever reason to go to trial, to bring out all of the proof that we have been looking at and that we're waiting for, imminently, is what they have playing out with people like tucker carlson and jeanine pirro, sean hannity, lou dobbs, having to take the stand and to be cross-examined to prove up what happened and that means that the opportunities for fox to try and settle and to try
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and get out of this could be few and far between in the same way that the sandy hook families, they wanted to have it out there to clear the malignant statements that were made made about their children and what happened. so, honestly, very different types of harms. but the predicament that the defendants face is quite the same. and just one final point, nicolle, which is i just think that it is worth noting that the reason tucker carlson was able to do what he did last night was because kevin mccarthy basically decided this is going to be like russia where a state run media and fox would be given access to something that no one else had and he was able to then spin it because we're all in a position where we've love to all see that data and to be able to correct him in realtime and it is just to me it is remarkable that
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kevin mccarthy did that and you see a split in congress because you have mitch mcconnell giving the green light to his fellow republicans in the senate to dispute what happened. and it is worth noting that tension in terms of what is happening with the republican party and the way that they have favored fox news in this -- in this case. >> i mean, rick, tucker carlson plays a fascinating role in cleansing some republicans of their capacity to tell the truth about january 6. let me show you his interview with ted cruz who had once agreed with steve scalise and christopher wray that january 6 was an act of domestic terrorism and then this happened. >> we are approaching a solemn anniversary this week. and it is an anniversary of a violent terrorism attack on the capitol. >> and yet you called this a terror attack. when by no definition was a tear
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attack. it was a lie. and you told that lie on purpose and i'm wondering why you did? >> well, tucker, thank you for having me on. when you aired your episode last night, i sent you a text shortly thereafter and said, i would like to go on because the way i phrase things yesterday, it was sloppy and it was frankly dumb. and -- >> i don't buy that. whoa, whoa, i known you a long time. you were a supreme court contender. as any many that use the in the senate, you repeated that phrase, i do not believe that you used that accidentally. i just don't. >> what i was referring to are the limited number of people that engaged in violent attacks against police officers. and i think you and i both agree if you assault a police officer, you should go to jail. that is who i was talking about. >> they don't agree on that. i mean, what tucker did last night makes clear they don't agree on that. the qanon shaman and so ted cruz
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said we're approaching a solemn anniversary of the violent terrorist attack on the capitol and what looks like prepared statements and tucker carlson calls him on this. the way i phrased things yesterday was sloppy and frankly dumb. i mean, he's in a long line of republicans, steve scalise called them anarchist and terrorists. christopher wray said it was an act of domestic terrorism. mitch mcconnell said donald trump should face civil and criminal charges for his role in insighting the ak tha -- insighting the attack. >> it is not exactly a profile encouraged by senator cruz. it is obvious that tucker carlson is the head of the republican party. the kind of judge almost that will censure people for not falling in line. the question is, and to go back
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to what joyce said, is he saying this knowing that it is false. that actual malice standard, that is the phrase that comes from the 1964 "new york times" versus sullivan case, malice doesn't mean in that contact of what we think of ill will. it means saying falsehoods and knowing they are false. and what makes the dominion lawsuit so powerful is that i think people like tucker are saying what he said and knowing that it is false. when we saw the stuff that he said behind the scenes, that he thought people were nuts, that these were unbelievable, it is obvious that he didn't think they were true. but he is, as everybody on the right does, doubling down on the falsehood. i would think that would make him more liability and every night it helps the dominion lawsuit. >> it is amazing. amazing state of affairs. here is what we're going to do. we're going to ask all of you so
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sit tight and not wander far from where you're sitting so when we get the now dominion documents we could turn to you for your expertise. when we come back, we're going to switch gears. the grim reality of post roe america, five women are suing the state of texas for denying them medically necessary reproductive health care. all while their own lives were at risk and their pregnancies. their stories are next. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere today. ust saf. my customer really relies on his car's advanced safety system. [alarm] >> instructor: veer right. [ringing] >> instructor: and slow down. >> tech: so when he got a cracked windshield, he turned to safelite. we're the experts at replacing glass and recalibrating your vehicle's camera, so automatic emergency braking and lane departure warning work properly to get you back on the road safely. >> instructor: and that means a lot! >> tech: schedule now. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ if your business kept on employees through the pandemic,
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i love texas. and it killed me that my own state does not seem to care if i
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live or die. >> you never want to hear that your son isn't going to survive. not even until birth. but what could we do? as my medical providers tried to counsel me on my options they would stop mid sentence looking for the words. it was like they were afraid that they would be arrested just for saying the word abortion out loud. >> five women in texas today made history. talking about the most deeply personal and painful moments of their own lives. in service of an unprecedented landmark lawsuit that they are bringing aiming to hold the state of texas accountable for horrific health consequences they have suffered after they were denied the, quote, necessary and potentially life saving health care in the form of abortions and were encouraged to get out staft to get the
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health care they needed. the 92 page document calls it a direct result of texas' near total abortion ban which should have guaranteed exceptions when their lives were at, quote, substantial risk and their babies were given fatal diagnosis. with the threat of losing their medical licenses, fines of hundreds of thousands of dollars and up to 99 years in prison lingering over their heads, it is no wonder that doctors and hospitals are turning patients away. even patients in medical emergencies. quote, plaintiffs represent only the tip of the iceberg. since september 2021, millions of people of reproductive kpasity in texas and beyond has been denied equal treatment as human beings. >> the professor of law at
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irvine and joyce, the courage of the women for taking what has to be some of the most painful moments and days and trying to protect other women is just a stunning moment in this debate in this country. >> that is right. so, what we see is that people's personal lives now on full display in order to try to assert their dignity and also that of others and in texas we have an unprecedented, as you say, lawsuit by five women who have experienced incredible tragedy. gestating fetuses with no developing skulls in the case of one of the women, twice experiencing severe infection, being nearly at the point of death because of that, before her doctors would intervene and
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in the one case of having a fever of over 103 degrees and now the women are coming forward, as you've described the laws in texas, are so horrific where the women have feared even telling loved ones about their the circumstances that they've suffered through, for fear of the texas law that provides that individuals may, in fact, be sued and pay pen thes if they aid or abet an individual in terminating a pregnancy. the fear of crossing state lines an the fear of going online to see where they could get help because of the atmosphere that has been curated in texas where really we're talking about a kind of new form of jane crow, if we could remember what jim crow was in the kind of terror that black people lived under, well now we see this in an expression happening to women across the country and texas is just one of the states where we see this crisis in full display.
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>> okay. michelle, joyce, let's talk about the women who did, i think, the unthinkable. for all of the millions of american women and men who are so energized to become more politically active by this issue, a much smaller subset of them are willing to talk about it publicly and even smaller group is willing to talk about it while pregnant or being denied their care. from "the new york times" report, doctors hold one of the women we heard from in the clip, that they could perform an abortion only if she became acutely ill. ome if she became acutely ill or went in labor naturally. or if the fetus' heartbeat stops. three days later her doctors told them they could not legal by aboard the fetus because it still had a heartbeat. she developed a fever and her
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husband called to ask to the go to the hospital. the nurse told him that doctors would of to receive approval from the hospital's ethics board, at night. he finally rushed his wife to the emergency room, later that night her fever spiked to 103.2 degrees. doctors confirmed that she had a blood infection and said her life was now in danger. so they could induce delivery without violating texas's abortion ban. later that night, though, she developed a secondary infection, the families flu in fearing that she would die. joyce, it is an extraordinary state of being female and having a vagina and a uterus that in texas you have to have a fever of 103.2 and a secondary infection to receive health care. >> it is 2023. the conversation that i did not expect to be having this year
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was whether women would have to run the risk of death before they could receive a life-saving medical procedure. right. i don't think any of us expected that this was a conversation that would be alive. but here we are and i think it would be wrong to underestimate how serious this situation is. you know, one of the big problems here, nicolle, is many legislators are now taking this sort of hands off position. they're saying the problem here is with doctors. the doctors are misinterpreting the laws that we have passed that have exceptions in them. and as you point out in the opening, the real problem here is the environment that has been created in a number of states where the punishment for aiding someone or for performing an abortion is so egregious, doctors face the prospect of life in prison if some prosecutor down the road second guesses their medical decision and decides that they were wrong, it is very difficult for women to obtain care in this setting. something needs to change.
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these women are enormously brave to make themselves the focal point used to protect other women. i hope that their bravery will be rewarded and treated with respect and dignity but i fear that will not be the case in the days and weeks ahead. >> michelle, women seeking abortion and health care are often depicted as anti-life. and pro-choice is viewed as this false black and white issue. i think it is against life. and a lot of times the woman seeking the abortion is the most pro-life of all, for that life, the one in her body that is no longer sustainable. and they're stories are not often told but one was today. i want to share it. lauren hall another plaintiff was 18 weeks pregnant and had set up a crib. and bought clothes for the baby girl she already named amelia. when scans revealed that the fetus had no skull and
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undeveloped brain. a specialist urged her to go out of state but to tell nowhere where she was going or why unless someone report her to a hotline that anti-abortion groups set up. so michelle lauren's baby girl who she named amelia, had a devastating birth defect. she developed without a skull and undeveloped brain. so lauren was as pro-life as in woman could be but she was carrying a baby that was so sick and instead of having access to health care for her baby and herself, she had to go out of state but tell no one where she was going or where less someone report her to a hotline that anti-abortion groups set up. what is going on? >> so, nicolle, there is so much to unpack here there. so the first thing is to understand that the united states generally is a deadly place to be pregnant. we lead all industrialized
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nations in terms of maternal mortality and morbidity. even if we didn't have the horrific landscape that you've just described. so that is a first. we don't protect pregnant women. we don't -- we do a horrible job of that in the united states. it is actually safe tore give birth in former war torn countries in some instances, are there are recent genocides than in the united states. but if we look specifically at the question that you raised, which is that there are people who have children or who want children who find themselves in need of abortion medical care. that is true. so many women who have abortions are, in fact, mothers. and sometimes they're seeking an abortion because it is the safest thing to preserve their health or to manage a miscarriage. and other times they're making other considerations that also keep in mind their families.
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this is why it is so dangerous when lawmakers intervene as if there was only one category of persons who would seek to be able to terminate a pregnancy. you know, the supreme court, a few years before the dobbs decision, in a case called whole women's health versus hellerstead, they acknowledged that a woman is 14 times more likely to die in the united states by carrying a pregnancy to term than by having an abortion. so on one hand, while there is some people including lawmakers saying that their surprised by this, in reality this data has already existed, the supreme court was aware of it, and, in fact, given that we're talking about texas, the whole women's healthy hellerstead kaz a case that came out of texas where the supreme court looked a devastating record about the level, the rates of death of
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women in the state of texas. and many of those instances, they were women who wanted, in fact, to be pregnant, but faced a deadly risk in doing so. >> michelle and joyce are staying with us. we'll show you what california's governor gavin newsom is doing in response to walgreens decision not to distribute abortion medications in places where it is still legal. take a quick break and don't go anywhere. reak and don't go anywhere my joint pain isn't too bad. well, it wasn't this morning. i hope i can get through this. is plaque psoriasis or psoriatic arthritis making you rethink your everyday choices? otezla is a pill, not a cream or injection that can help people with plaque psoriasis achieve clearer skin. otezla is also proven to reduce joint swelling, tenderness, and pain in psoriatic arthritis. and no routine blood tests required. don't use otezla if you're allergic to it. serious allergic reactions can happen. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting.
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just days after walgreens announced that it will not sell abortion pills, abortion medication in some republican-led states including some places where it is still legal to do so. california governor gavin newsom tweeted this yesterday, california won't be doing business with walgreens or any company that cowers to the extremists and put women's lives at risk. we are done. walgreens operates more than 580 stores in california and this is just perhaps the first major problem for the retailer for appearing to cave to threats by anti-abortion republicans. michelle and joyce are still with us. joyce, your thoughts on the governor's position and what he really reveals is that corporate america is being heavily influenced in the terms of the health care it is providing american women based on people who are out of step with 76% of republicans.
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they oppose the most extreme abortion bans by republicans in the states. >> so it is a fascinating move because as you're suggesting it, it hints at the next front in what has-s becoming a battle against abortion. you know, i think initially we thought or maybe it was just me being naive, that it would be the dobbs case. that dobbs would say that there is no right to an abortion, no constitutional right and leave states free to do what they would after that pronouncement came down. but that wasn't the case. the next portion of the attack became the attack against the use of medicated abortion which led to this situation with walgreens which will no longer carry that medication. and as if it is not bad enough, this notion of ending medication abortion which is something like 61% of abortions according to an institute called the good maucher institute that tracks those statistics.
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it is not just about letting states make decisions, it is letting states that have chosen to ban or come close to a total ban on abortion imposing their will in other states, states like california where women still have a right to abortion. a state like washington, and by intimidating, for instance in this case, drug store chains making the provision of services less available, we'll see it in other ways. we'll see states like texas that will try to keep their residents from traveling out of state to other states to get abortion. it is a sort of a all fronts war on abortion and women's rights at this point. >> we're going to stay on this. we're also tracking the case that would take that medication withdraw fda approval for it. it would be the first time ever that the fda would withdraw its support for a drug for a nonmedical reason. so with your help we'll stay on it. michelle, thank you for being part of our coverage. we are behind the scenes getting our very first look at the
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evident in the dominion lawsuit. back with us, joyce advance and andrew weiss man and rick stengel. and i know you've been reading, what are your first takeaways. >> well there is something i can't say on air. it is a description by tucker carlson and one of the exhibits of sidney powell that is, to put it politely, derogatory. >> you could give us a list. we've broken the seal with bill barr earlier in the hour. >> i think my mother watches your show, nicolle. i don't think i can. it is -- it goes against all -- >> there we go. our standards have put it up on the screen. if your in your car i'll help you out. tucker said sidney powell is a living f-word, b-word. that doesn't leave much to the imagination. >> yes, that is true.
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and the other thing which is maybe i think joyce might resonate, it is jumped out a little bit at me which is that if you look at the bottom of some of the pages and i just started looking at it,wsried to wraps, claiming attorney/client privilege. and at least the first document i saw with that denomination, where they marked it as attorney/client, it wasn't. there was just -- i didn't even see any attorneys on it. so you could be pretty sure that behind the scenes there is a story that the dominion lawyers could tell about fighting to get this information. you know, that happens in civil suits where one party tries to, as we've seen from the former president or from mike pence or people claim privilege, here in the civil suit people sometimes
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overclaim privilege including attorney/client and that appears to be what happened here. and so far the documents are very, very consistent with what we saw before. and it is important. i mean, the fact that it is consistent means that as joyce has pointed out, that lawyers get to say this is no accident over and over again, you have people saying that this is not to be believed and yet they aired it because of the concern of what was happening to their stock price. >> that is okay. we know we're all city people and sometimes there are sirens. let me share this. i'm just looking at my first glimpse of some documents and this is interesting to me. on this second track of how fox news functions. something that was really quite opaque. especially this trump-fied
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version of fox news. this is in this exhibit. one of -- an unknown person emailing tucker carlson said, i sent it to breitbart, caller, examiner, "new york times" and tucker carlson writes, it looks like while he's either on the air or getting ready to go on the air. do a nice job. the degree to which tucker carlson specifically as an anchor directed content into this pipeline of right-wing information, propaganda, choose your description of what it was, in this case it looks like they were talking about sid know powell using those naughty words andrew alluded to is those naugw alluded to is another galling but not surprising example of how fox news exist in the terms of populaing the right wing as
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an effort for its own, in the case of the dominion lies, untruthful content, rick stengle. >> yes, it's amazing because it shows how much fox is part of the right-wing conservative republican ecosystem, that they don't see themselves as covering it, they see themselves as contributing to it. they see themselves as marshalling forces. you know, i have been in news organizations all my life, mainstream organizations, and yes, you have contact with the white house. you may sometimes have contact with the president, but that's released if the president had some journalist come see him or historians. what goes on with fox, and a we have saw with president trump and even before that, that they were kind of the part of wing of the party, that they were orchestrating not only -- but orchestrating things that politicians did. aye never seen that in the kind
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of modern era of journalism, and i don't know if that helps or hurts the dominion lawsuit, but what we see over and over again, you deciding, nicolle, that tucker carlson seemed to be aware of what he was saying is false, which is by definition defamatory. >> some of what is coming out right now, we want to be responsible and make sure we read it accurately, but i want to describe the new material to our viewers. this is from "washington post" live block. it's described as a large cache of new documents being released tuesday, likely to include exhibits mention in the past legal motions that generated headlines and controversy for the network. they have included revelations that top executives and hosts privately doubted the veracity of election fraud claims even as fox continued to air them and that they fretted about losing
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viewers. renell, just this additional email documentation behind something that we had already seen in that three-way text thread between tucker carlson, laura ingraham and sean hannity, what they thought of sidney powell, the real personal disdain calling her "f" word, "b" word. what is the significant of their private views of sidney powell and the fraudulent nature of the things she was saying on their air waves? >> yeah, so, just to be clear to your viewers is what's happening here is they're getting this document dump of the primary source materials of some of the things that we've already seen dominating the headlines in the past couple weeks. so we've seen snippet of these and references to these over the course of the time since the motion for summary judgment was filed, and now we're getting the sort of actual documentation of what these emails look like,
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what these text exchanges look like. so to the wider question of the legal significance of some of this documentation, i guess two things are happening here. one piece is that dominion is using these exhibits to demonstrate the gap between what fox news was saying to itself internally and what it was saying to its audience, which has been a prominent theme in the filings to date, and these are some of the most notable exhibits that demonstrate that gap between the conversations that they were having with each other, most notably about the faulty or likely falsity of these games about dominion and the sorts of things that were being promoted and said on some of their programming. and so some of the pieces of this, people calling each other bad words internally, people
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speaking in derogatory ways about their sources are not necessarily proof of knowing falsity so much as they are proof of a complicated and perhaps unfortunate internal culture as a company. but the wider narrative arc is backed up and supported by these exhibits. these with exhibits that are trying to point to two separate components of this knowing falsity argument that dominion is playing. one is that there are key players inside the organization that are saying to each other, we know this isn't true. we know this is a lie. we think this is crazy or ludicrous. and the other piece of it is a piece about why they would continue to platform some of these comments and some of these
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sources, and there's a great deal of documentation here in the exhibits that speak to that, conversations that people were having internally about wanting to keep audience and thinking that it's important to highlight some of these conspiracy theories because the audience craved it. >> let me read some of that. so this is an extraordinary exchange, again on both prongs, the legal case being built by dominion of the knowing platform, the willful lying to the audience, as well as what i keep talking about, just the extraordinary revelations of how they curated disinformation. this is an email exchange or a text exchange between tucker carlson and an unknown person, sounds like somebody on his team. this is from the unknown person to tucker carlson on september -- no, i'm sorry, sent on november 9th.
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just sent out that with two decent vote fraud stories. to paraphrase our good friend rahm emanuel, it's good to take advantage of crisis. tucker carlson writes, do you think there's good evidence of voter fraud? unknown person responding says, i don't think there's evidence of voter fraud that swung the election. there is information here and there showing fraud, but not the element required to swing the election to joe biden. the same person writes to tucker carlson a minute later, i'm sure the trump campaign will put out ten obituary examples tomorrow. there's evidence of something wrong with the system, but certainly not evidence the election was stolen. the problem is, like with russia's story, the liberals interpreted the tidbits as meaning trump actually colluded and of course nuance is hard on cable. these will be a tough two
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months. tucker carlson responds, yes, all true, but it's bad for the country to have this much doubt and suspicion. this is exactly why people believe in conspiracies. we need some sort of audit to settle it to the extent it can be settled. is anyone responsible suggesting that? unknown response to tucker carlson, sure, some republicans are calling for an audit, in quotes, i think matt gaetz is, but i don't think that's possible for december 14th when the electoral college meets. also super unclear what it would look like. elections are run by counties and states, so an audit is not feasible. tucker writes it would be good to propose a solution that puts some of the fears to rest, not to help trump win necessarily but to keep people from going insane. let's find the clearest example of apparent fraud and figure out the best way to see what really happened. this is his producer responding,
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okay, the ones i emailed are pretty concrete. we'll add more in the morning in any comes out. i'm anticipating the trump campaign did voter stuff to drop in the morning. senate hears aren't worth much, but republicans control the committees and have investigative subpoena power. they should be launching a probe. i believe michigan state legislature is doing a review. the staggering depth and intricacy of the tucker carlson show team in not just acknowledging there was no evidence of fraud. again, i want to vote this accurately enough, to change the outcome of an election, while helping to manufacture vehicles to express the distrust in the system is, joyce vance, breathtaking. >> it really is, and it's even more spectacular when you think that this issue of fraud isn't something just occurred on the heels of the election in 2020.
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this was a theme that the president put forward in 2016. he created an election system that consisted a people people who ran elections and probate judges across the country. that group met and collected evidence, and a couple of months in, they had to hold, because they were unable to find any evidence of fraud that had impacted the outcome of that 2016 election, anything that was significant. and the folks on fox and tucker carlson show they knew that. that's why you find exchanges here where they say, can you find one example of a dead person voting? sure you can find one example. didn't taint the election. they knew that, and that's ultimately very effective in this lawsuit. >> joyce vance, andrew weissman, renell anderson jones, rick stengle, thank you for hanging

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