administration do this, you know, ultimately, if you're fashioning it the way the trump administration did it, it's an endorsement. ultimately, it means in the future, it will be hard to repeal this type of policy. to go politically and say that we're going to open more access for asylum seekers at the border, would be quite difficult given the current political dynamics. >> what do you mean by this political dynamics? >> you see, a lot of pressure from republicans and some moderate democrats on the numbers at the border. there's a lot of fear that's being perceived as open border, and you see with this administration, needing to bring down the numbers so, you turn this type of deterrent based policies to limit access to asylum, to limit people from being able to enter this country. and seek asylum andan have, thank you for your time. that is all in on this wednesday alish wagner tonight starts right now. >> it ista a heart breaking situation we find ourselves faced with. thanks to you at home for

joining us this hour. if youin watched any hour of fo news yesterday odds are you saw one ofdd these, an ad for electn denier mike lindell's my pillow pillow or an ad infor his my slipperr slippers. we scrolled through in the tire day, time we'll never get back, and counted 30 ads for mike lindell in a 24-hour period. mr. lindell can spend as much of his company'suc money on fox ase would like,ne but what is alarmg about the sheer volume of fox ad timoc pied by mr. lindell is this. on december 17, 2020, the ceo of fox news was forwarded this e-mail by an executive in the fox news department. my pillow's mike lindell did

makede suggestive comments abou our audience being smaller. the next morning fox ceo suzan scot replied has my personal gift been sent to mike. meanwhile fox continued to let mike on the air so he could push the big lie the election was stolen. yesterday a jugantic drop in the billion dollar defamation lawsuit between dominion systems and fox news was released. even now more than 24 hours later we are still not through it all, but one of the things that we are seeing again and again here in this pile of evidence is that the typical firewalls and guardrails of checks and balances you would expect from a real news organization, well they just weren't there. there was a clear conflict of interest in having someone like mike lindell as both an on-air

guest pushing the theory the election was stolen, a theory fox news appears to have known was not true, and at the same time having lindell as a major advertiser on the network, an advertiser important enough the ceo is sending lindell gifts to keep him on. mike lindell played in both world. he was allowed to promote the big lie on fox air waves because apparently that was going to keep him selling pillows on it same airil waves and keep the f audience buying pillows, maybe also slippers. the e-mails further reveal the nakedly partisan objectives at fox. here's an exchange a few days after theex election was calledn november 2020. bartiromo, i want to see massive

fraud exposed. will he be able to turn this around? i told myn team we're not allod to say president-elect at all, not ont scripts, not on-air unl this moves through the court. bannon, 71 million voters will never accept biden mchs this process is to destroy his presidency before it starts, eif it even starts. bartiromo, but i'm sad and scared. bannon, you are our fighter. enough of the sad, we need you. bartiromo, okay. that is fox news host maria bartiromot plotting with one o the most influential strategists in themo republican party about how to delegitimize the rightfully elected president of the united states. at one point bannon even tells him he wants bartiromo to run for senate against chuck schumer all a part of some big strategy to win backme control of the u. government. it is very, very wild stuff.

but the wildest part we learned from yesterday's release of evidence this kind of behavior goes all the way to the top. we showed you last night how rupert murdoch, the owner of the media empire that owns fox news, how he admitted in his deposition he gave jared kushner a preview of the campaign ads before they were public specifically to help the trump campaign, to give themfo an edg in crafting their strategy. this is an e-mail from murdoch to the fox news ceo suzanne scott in 2020. he told murdoch which fox news hosts he likedh and which he didn't likend based on their coverage of him. murdoch found it wise to let the ceo of fox news know those preferences so she could act accordingly. then there's e-mail again from murdoch to thel ceo of fox new this time complaining about an apparent outburst. murdoch asks could sean say

something supportive? we can't lose the senate if at all possible. does that we mean we the republican party? does it mean fox news? it is kind of hard to tell where one stop and the other begins. here's another one again from murdoch to the ceo of fox news this time november 2020 after the general election once it was clear the control ofr the sept would be decided by runoff elections in georgia. quote, we should concentrate on georgia, c helping any way we c. who is the we here? it turns out over and over again that question is hard to answer when you're talking about the highest levels of fox news. if you have any doubt about the kind of power rupert murdoch has had over fox and our national discourse, hear it from the man himself. tonight dominion filed his final brief asking the court to decide without a trial. in that brief one of key pieces

of evidence comes in the vi deposition of rupert murdoch. when asked if he as the owner of fox news could have stopped conspiracy theorists like rudy giuliani or sydney powell from appearing on fox news murdoch said, quote, i could have but i didn't. joining us now is california congressman adam schiff. congressman, thank you so much for being here. i know that you have previously said about this dominion lawsuit and the related revelations that fox endangers americans. and i wonder what you think of this latest batch and what role you think fox plays in the future of our democracy. >> well, i'm shocked on the one hand, on the other hand not at all surprised. i think we always knew that buried within fox there was a motivex to essentially be stat run tv for the republican party, at times state run tv for donald trump, but to see it so

graphically, to see it in black and white, to see rupert murdoch basically saype it's all about e money,ut that this was all abou keeping profit, keeping ratings up, to see tucker carlson privately talkr about how muche despised donald trump, to talk about how privately how absurd these fraud claims are and then to highlight people making those fraud eoclaims, to see people le tucker carlson talk about firing people who actually called the election correctly because it hurtsel the money making at foxs so destructive of the country, what they're doing and the motivend could not be anymore clear. it's just all about the money. and i do think what they've done to the country has just been terrible. they h played a pivotal role in the promulgation of the big lie, inti causing distrust of our elections. they're now playing a pivotal

role in trying to rewrite history about the insurrection, which might encourage further violence. and also let's not forget tucker carlson using that big platform to essentially talk about kremlin talking points on the war in ukraine. and it just couldn't be more productive of the country, of democracy, and it's all about the a money. >> given your role on the january 6th committee i wonder if you could lette us know the degree to whichkn fox was a top of conversation as you all were investigating the roots of the insurrection, as you all were trying toti show the american public what happened that day. t was fox something you talked about? was fox something you considered in that attempt to overthrow democracy? >> fox is something that we talked aboutch and we did as you know look into the effect of social media and some of the

whistle-blower and insights we got from people at the different platforms, and a facebook and a twitter. but we also talked about fox, and we looked at academic analysis of how fox played an equallypl big role in promulgatg the big lie. we did make a decision where information we received was on the basis of sort of expert input, that we were going to rely more on the testimony, sort of the fact based testimony that we received rather than broadening ourei report to cove what academia had to say. but nonetheless we were conscious of the fox effect. and that's a much more difficult one at the end of the day to deal with than social media where you can take away their immunity, you can hold them liable but with fox deliver on a pape line, you can't impose a farness doctrine as you would with public airways that are owned by the public. the only way to go after the

lies on fox is to go after the money on fox, which is why the dominion litigation is so important. it's why people that are advertising, not the a my pillo guy, but credible companies shouldn't be advertising in my personal view on a company that is knowingly pushing out such divisive lies. >> do you -- i think you've answered this question in terms of what can be done beyond the lawsuit, beyond going after fox's coffers. i know chuck schumer and jeffries sent a letter that he rein in fox news hosts. it doesn't seem you believe congress canm play any further role. can you conjure up a scenario in

which fox is held accountable? is it resolution of the dominion suit potentially they'd have to admit they lied on the air? what recourse is for people reading this stuff and not only horrified about the malfeasance but terrified about the future of the country when people are so willing tali to the american public? >> ica really think the only remedies are going to be the financial ones, and it's why the dominion litigation is so important. if they get hitit with a multibillion dollar penalty, that'll get their attention. they cannot be changed. you would think these e-mails now being published, these text messages knowing what liars they are, showing murdoch admitted, yeah, he could have put a stop to the lies but he didn't because it's all about the money, all about the green, you'd think they'd be ashamed enough but what's moat voting them isn't conscience, isn't the right thing, isn't their

reputation, it's just the i mon. so this litigation if there's litigation overli lies they pusd in the pandemic and people died because of those lies and privately ins e-mail communications they're talking about how they need to take precautions in the company because this virus isn't like the flu, and there's other liability, lies they pushed, you know, about the officers, the lies tucker carlson is pushing about the death of officer sicknick, that exposes them to furtheros liability, and maybe that's going to be the only thing that gets their attention. >> the thgreen, the thing they careth most about. california congressman adam schiff, thanks as always for your time and thoughts, sir. >> thank you. >> joining me now is the chairman ande president of med matters. thanks for coming on the show tonight. i know your organization has been aggressive in following what fox isre doing, but you've also taken specific action in the course of this dominion lawsuit.

can you tell me a little bit more about that? >> yeah, and we are following this closely. there's actually been 1,261 my pillow ads on fox news this year. >> you're the unlucky souls counting that. >> the discussion you were having earlier on what's going to happen now, where's the accountability, i think we're going to start to see it. part of it is going to be financial. part of it going to be their power and going to come from a series of cascading consequences. the thing we did we filed a complaint with the fec. we pulled the thread what you werele talking about in your advertisement. it is very clear the law is extremely well-established. it says that corporations can't make a contribution, materials of value can be counteds a contribution and that

information about advertising strategy is considered a thing of value. so all those criteria have been checked off. so we filed a complaint with the fec, follow through on it now and give maximum accountability and consequences. that's one piece. the other piece is, and i think this does tie into the broader conversation where the power and profit weave together buzz fox news derives a lot of its profit from leveraging its power not just politically but really drive up their relationship with cable companies. fox news is the second most expensive channel on everybody's cable bill. the dirty secret about fox news they don't need a single ad to be profitable. they'd still have a 90% profit margin if they had zero dollars in advertising revenue. it was also they were overpriced. they were six times market rate and that's what the cable companyerize paying for them. fox news is overpriced right

now. it's roverpriced. they're not consist with market rate, and part of the reason they're able to get those big prices is becausee the way the leverage their audience for political power is they leverage their audiences during these cakeng fights and yet they're a minority of the larger cable audience. i see what this world, how asymmetrical it is. but in this moment we are at an inflection point, and i think there will be cascading consequences. i've already seen eight law firms begin to organize shareholders of fox to say, wait, you've breached fiduciarye duty, you've violated your responsibilities. and i do, this is a moment. it doesn't have to be because it's going to require persistence and action, but there is anis inflection point happening here. >>on there is the business sidef fox and how punishment may be

meted out on the business side, but then there's a democratic or philosophical, like the implications of punishing fox or notpu punishing fox when it com to democracy, and the reality is that fox has not been talking about its lawsuit on the air. they may not know anything about these depositions. do you foresee any kind of future that the fox news viewer which is a viewer with all due respectwi to our msnbc audiences not watching this network but verytw loyal to fox. >> i think possibly, and here's why ios say that. in partat what makes fox powerf is it sits atop a large right-wing echo chamber. and that echo chamber right now is going through a big sorting. rush limbaugh is not around

right now. there's a lot of friction and discord. we saw some of that internal friction spill out with the mccarthy fight. so my point is there is this moment actually competitors, other right-wing media figures, and we've seen a bit of these cracks start to emerge and say, wait, tucker is not loyal, they're not loyal, they're elitist, they're out to get us, some of them will go further to the extremes, some will move to morel centrist publications, b what matters the most and gets to your point about democracy, nothing will get better in any durable or consistent way unless we neutralize the destructive influence fox newsth has on our country and on our politics. >> with a dose of much needed optimism about what might happen here, we will keep you posted, you keep us posted. thanks for sharing your time with me tonight. we have so many more stories to bring you this evening including my conversation with

some parents of students at the florida college that is under siege by governor ron desantis. we have a stark warning for parentsst everywhere, and that this could happen to you. plus marjorie taylor greene is doing her part to whitewash the january 6th election and planning to bring a congressional delegation to visit january 6th defendants in jail. h defendants in jail

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well, fox news host tucker carlson has been using his airtime to offer a counter narrative of january 6th portraying the capitol riot as peaceful chaos, it is worth remembering that kevin mccarthy, speaker of the house, who enabled this false narrative by giving tucker carlson access to the surveillance footage in the first place it's worth remembering mr. mccarthy once had a pretty clear understanding what happened that day. >> these men and women in uniform they got overrun, one officer got killed. you don't understand what was transpiring in that moment and that time, people hanging to the ropes. when i got back into my building i found the straps they had. i don't know if they tried to kid nap somebody or whatever but they were well-planned for it. >> fast forward to today and republicans now find themselves in the very uncomfortable position of having to either get onboard with tucker carlson it

was alternate reality or actually speak the truth about what happened on january 6th. yesterday senate republican leader mcconnell called carlson's depiction of january 6th a mistake. today his senate colleagues mitt romney and lendsy graham also denounced carlson it was efforts. >> i won't take any part in whitewashing january 6th. it wasn't a stroll through the capitol. it was a attack on our capitol. >> texas republican congressman dan crenshaw also ridiculed the effort telling politico today if your message is to try and convince people nothing bad happened, then it's just going to make us look silly. but not everyone agrees. today we learned mccarthy ally marjorie taylor greene and house oversight chair james comer are

planning a congressional investigation to visit january 6th defendants in jail, a trip to the d.c. jail to check in on the insurrectionists. house republicans are also planning multiple new probes into january 6th specifically the security failures of that day and potentially the treatment of january 6th defendants, also an investigation into the january 6th committee itself. that last investigation will be led by georgia congressman barry loudermilk who according to the january 6th committee gave a private tour of the capitol to a rioter the day before the attack. joining us now is tim miller, writer for the bulwark and an msnbc political analyst. tim, it's great to have you here. i always turn to you for a reading of the insanity inside the gop and today is no different than the other days. what happens in this fight to relitigate history? i mean on one hand the fact you have some establishment republicans coming out and saying it was an insurrection, don't believe anything else seems like a good sign for

truth, but the reality is that the base really likes to relitigate fights that make donald trump look bad, and donald trump seems intent on relitigating this, marjorie taylor greene seems intent on it. they're powerful voices in the republican caucus, and i wonder how you think this ends. >> yeah, it's a burden of privilege to be the one having the expertise in this matter, alex. thanks for having me. look, i think it ends not well politically for kevin mccarthy. kevin mccarthy is as forced to, you know, let marjorie taylor greene carry him around on a leash and determine what should be done for the caucus. look, mitch mcconnell, there are funny criticisms you can levy at mitch mccombut he's already tried to do what's most

politically palpable in the republican senate. at least he was trying to look to what was the best at least for republicans when he was making these moves. kevin mccarthy is just fully giving into trump. and i think this demand that was put forth by tucker carlson remember during the umpteen different ballots before kevin became speaker, this demand this footage be put out, the demand we relitigate the january 6th committee, the demand we look into weather the doj wrongfully targeted the people that attacked the capitol, those were all demands put forth by the maga wing of the party and by tucker carlson, and kevin mccarthy has just had to completely give into them, not because it's the right thing for the party to do. it's obviously the wrong thing as mitch mcconnell and lindsey graham and others have said but it's because what he has to do to stay in the speakership. >> we played the audio where he's very clear about the threats he faced. we have footage from him on the

floor of congress talking about the dangers that day. he knows he said those things and yet, you know, tucker carlson in a way as you would tell it is asking kevin mccarthy to commit political suicide. hand over the tapes or you don't get the speakership, but once you hand over the tapes, it's going to put you in effectively an untenable position. so do you think -- i mean, is this -- do you think this issue animates the fractious wing of his party enough it could actually cost him the speakership in the end once these investigations are under way and a relitigation of january 6th is actually happening? >> you can't beat somebody with nobody, and the maga wing of the party has a lot of people that are good on news max and good on social media but don't have a lot of people they're ready to replace the speaker. will it cost him the speakership, i don't know. i think it's just a tiny preview of this box they're putting themselves in that's going to happen over and over again on

issue after issue. look at kyiv, for example. he was invited by kevin mccarthy by zelenskyy. any other speaker of the house would have obviously gone there to show solidarity with our ally, to demonstrate foreign policy. kevin can't do that because he knows the caucus will mad at him for going and hanging out with zelenskyy, so he can't do that. the same thing is going to come around when the funding comes around for ukraine. he can't meet the promises he's already made to his own caucus. can he continue to survive? for a while, right, or until someone comes up to challenge him. but i do think they'll continue to advance these total own gels that do nothing to help the republican party broadly but only serve, you know, his political survival in the short-term but this is just the really high profile example there's more to come.

>> you know you're between a rock and a hard place when your options relitigating january 6th or preparing your own caucus for default of the party. tim miller, thank you, my friend, as always for making sense of the madness. >> thanks, alex. we have still more to come tonight including more of my exclusive interviews in new college in florida. this time i talk to parents who regret not paying attention what governor desantis did in their state until he came for their kids. and his drastic overhaul of education in florida even as he and his allies in the republican controlled legislature are building on what they already started. that's next. building on what they already started. that's next. with a majority of my patience with sensitivity, i see irritated gums and weak enamel. sensodyne sensitivity gum & enamel relieves sensitivity, helps restore gum health, and rehardens enamel. i'm a big advocate of recommending things that i know work.

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this idea of a book ban in florida, somehow they don't want books in the library, that's a hoax, and that's really a nasty hoax because it's a hoax in service of trying to pollute and sexualalize our children. we'll also talk about the black history hoax, the idea that somehow we're not teaching about that and not teaching about things like racial discrimination. >> today we saw florida governor ron desantis on defense trying to explain away the results of the 2022 legislative accomplishments he bragged about just a day ago during his state of it state address.

desantis back-pedaled at a podium promising to expose the book ban hoax and provide this opening statement. myth number one, florida has banned books from the classroom, and then fact number one. here are the books parents found in florida schools and reported to their school districts for removal, which is still very much banning book from the classroom and also doesn't account for the classroom libraries across the state. the governor used a similar strategy to defend his stop woke law and decision to reject a new ap african american studies course. despite desantis' efforts people in the state affected by his stop woke and don't say gay laws do not seem to be buying it. as they soar through the anti-woke provisions stipulated in those laws sometimes under threat of felony prosecution. but already desantis and the florida legislature are adding to the legislative pile shifting their focus to include state

colleges. a new house bill on the docket this session takes aim at the college's equity and inclusion. and it puts professors up for tenure review at any time. even before that bill becomes law desantis and florida lawmakers have already planted their flag at a small public liberal arts school called new college. "the new york times" columnist michelle goldberg has been closely tracking the changes on this campus. in january she interviewed one of desantis' hand picked new trustees for the college. his name is chris rufo. the fight over new college is about more than just the fate of the school in sarasota. for desantis it's part of a broader quest to crush any hint of progressive in education, a

quest he'd likely take national if he ever became president. for rufo it would serve as a model for kshs to copy all over the country. if we can take this high risk high reward gamut and turn it into victory we're going to see state legislatures start to conquer institutions all over the united states. should he prevail it'll set the stage on an even broader response. that is the goal of this new college trustee, reconquer public institutions across the country. last week i spoke with some parents of students at new college. both parents told me they are terrified and they want the whole country to know exactly what's at stake. >> our school! ? >> i think it's important everyone in the country knows

what's happening here in florida not just at this school but what's going to happen at the other public schools pause a lot of people have children in public schools. i just say we have to keep speaking, we have to keep making our voices heard, and the truth is we have to keep begging people in power to speak for us and that's what i'm willing to do. i don't have any shame left. i never wanted to be on tv ever. i'm terrified. i want the -- i want america to know what's happening here because i know that governor desantis is running for president. >> i started seeing all of this book banning and the k-12, you know, don't say gay and et cetera, et cetera and i was like martha is going to be an adult soon and then obviously now they're coming for adults in higher education and telling them, you know, how they can think and feel and express themselves. and i was like, wow, and i started digging. and i'm like this has been --

they've been slowly and methodically taking over school boards. they've been destroying things from the ground up. now i realize i should not have put my head in the sand because it is definitely much more far reaching than i've thought and probably more far reaching than the country realizes. >> what are the implications if the college doesn't make it, if it becomes something else, what are the implications for your son and your family? >> i used to be a doctor. i got sick and i spent most of my money trying to stay alive which now clearly may not have been the best decision, but we're going to make the sacrifices that we need to make to get our children the education that they deserve one way or the other. >> what do you think parents are prepared to do to save new college? >> i think they're prepared to do anything it takes barring

violence. no one wants to be violent, but as far as financially and emotional support, they're willing to do whatever it takes. >> i like the ones that say america needs to pay attention. >> pay attention, you are next. it gets the point across. >> exactly, right. and that's the truth. it's the first and it's going to spread. >> well, it has spread. >> i have never in my life felt such a sense of purpose. i've never been so humble by the people i've met. my faith in humanity is restored because i feel like i was losing on watching all the things happening in the country in the last six years. >> i mean it's personal, right? it's very clear-cut and deeply personal. >> when you come after someone's children, there is nothing -- there is nothing that is going to give a parent a better sense of, okay -- okay, i'm coming

after you. noi, now you've pissed us off quite frankly. when we come back we'll have more on what governor desantis is doing in florida and why it's invoking comparisons of viktor orban of hungary. we'll talk to michelle goldberg of "the new york times" about those parallels coming up next. and republicans are criticizing one of their own, one of the high profile projects of the republican led house. stick around for that. republic. stick around for that.

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options start at $9.95 a month. that's less than 35 cents a day. and the good news is they won't ever increase. a lifetime rate lock guarantees it. i'm not in perfect health. can i get this coverage? (jonathan) can you get this coverage if you're not in perfect health? yes, you can. the truth is, you cannot be turned down for any reason. your acceptance is 100% guaranteed. we don't require a medical exam or ask a single health question. what if my health changes? can i keep this coverage? (jonathan) can you keep this coverage if your health changes? yes, you can. the peace of mind this insurance provides can be yours for life. just pay your premiums and the policy cannot be cancelled for any reason. now, there's one question i'd like to ask you. are you ready to take the next step and help protect those you love? call the number on your screen to learn more.

this is a story, a cautionary tale about a university in hungary that no longer exists. it was called central european university and it was a prestigious private research school founded by a very famous hungarian refugee named george soros. the university ranked number one in the country, but for the far-right authoritarian government of prime minister viktor orban, the school was too liberal, too progressive so he shut it down. if the story sounds familiar is because america is witnessing its own orban-style attacks. desantis' first victim is new college, a small liberal arts school in sarasota that the governor considers too woke. unlike orban desantis is not

shutting it down, not yet at least. instead the governor is giving it a complete makeover. desantis wants to transform this tight-knit constitution into a bastion of conservatism, a modhe hopes will be copied all over the country. ginning us now is "the new york times" columnist and author michelle goldberg. michelle, you've been doing great essential reporting on this and you draw the parallels between the authoritarian fascist regime of orban and what's happening down in florida from cracking down on lgbtq rights to censoring political opposition to house bill 999 that pursues drastic changes to higher education. do you think desantis knows he's pulling a page from the autocrats play book? >> i think you see -- i certainly think ron desantis probably knows and admires who viktor orban is. they had a conservative

political action conference in hungary. there's a lot of cross pollenization between the right and the republican party. so whether or not he's consciously molding this series of legislative maneuvers on viktor orban's war and education in hungary there were already parallels with critical race theory. it can of had echoes of the way orban went after gender studies. house bill 999 especially with this attempt to remake new college makes it so explicit. orban banned gender studies. house bill 999 banned public colleges from offering gender studies majors or minors. it puts the college's hiring under these -- it gives kind of a lot of new power to boards of trustees to decide -- >> political apinties. >> right, which is the same

thing hungary has done to many of its public colleges, so you just -- what chris rufo who is one of desantis' appointees to the board of new college and has also been a kind of chief idelog of the war on critical race theory and now on diversity, equity and inclusion, he very consciously sees this as a project of kind of taking over liberal institutions and turning them towards -- >> and is explicit about it. what i don't get, it's like the ultimate gaslighting to basically be steam rolling fascist policies into the state and doing so under the banner of freedom and rights. that's what i don't get. how is this being made palatable to people who understand what fascism and authoritarianism are and the fact it's a rising dark tide across the globe and then see it at home as it's being presented under the auspices of

reasserting your individual rights? how can they possibly be packaging it as such? >> i think why people buy it is hard for me to say. but i think what they've done sort of in this astonishing way is gone from posing as defenders of free speech against quote-unquote wokeness and ron desantis has a stop woke act. his primary political project is basically crushing what he calls wokeness, which he has presented as a threat to free speech. and so in order to crush this threat to free speech he justifies these policies that are far more threatening to free speech than anything we've seen in our lifetime, and so i think it's by demonizing, you know, all sorts of things they put under this umbrella of wokism as a kind of total-airian menace.

>> literally one of the phrases in the pill is don't say, right? that's not freedom of speech. i do want to talk about how this is model being replicated elsewhere in the country and where you see the greatest kinship between what desantis is doing -- well, with what desantis is doing, is it youngkin, is it virginia, south carolina, new hampshire? desantis seemed like he was on the defensive today a little bit defending his policies. and i wonder if you think people are beginning to check him on this or whether you think the momentum is in his favor and this is going to be replicated elsewhere. >> i think both at the same time. what desantis does is very similar to what some of these anti-abortion lawmakers do, it's when the implications of their policies become clear and we see, for example, women being turned away when they're having miscarriages and they say that's just liberals misinterpreting the laws.

he's sort of pretended these examples we've seen from florida of books being either taken out of classrooms or covered up, very innocuous biographies, he'll say this is just a misinterpretation of the law. when the law is written with such vagueness that it's kind of terrorizing to people who have to worry about running afoul of it, and so i do think that he -- yes, it's very hard to justify, you know, the kind of images of empty book shelves. at the same time, it doesn't -- and the quote-unquote wokeness didn't work very much, but nevertheless you see the same energy around this. the energy is because conservatives and republicans see him kind of attacking their enemies. that's why he's a plausible contender for president, so i don't see how he backs off on it. >> it is a signature move as they say. michelle goldberg, always good to see you. we have one more story for you tonight about infighting in the republican party over

congressman jem jordan's pet project. that is coming up next. m jordant project. that is coming up next ♪♪ get $1500 purchase allowance on a 2023 cadillac xt5 and xt6. ♪♪ visit your local cadillac dealer today.

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it's been one month since the republican led house select subcommittee on the weaponization of the federal government held its first hearing and it's still failed to provide any evidence of the purported weaponization of the federal government. republican jim jordan's pet project has apparently been overpromising and under-delivering when it comes to exposing alleged abuses by the government. a recent headline from axios reads jim jordan scrambles amid claims weaponization probe is a dud. this comes after democrats on the committee put out a report drawing attention to the fact that republicans on the panel were not relying on testimony from actual government whistle blowers but instead on conspiracy theorists with ties to former trump allies. and now the committee is taking heed from those who

traditionally might support its efforts. just yesterday republican top staffer for senator chuck grassly went on steve bannon's show to say the committee is just structurally setup to fail and the reason is this a failure of jim jordan's part. he went onto add, quote jim jordan is not a serious person. even jesse waters every at fox is worried. pleading on-air make me feel better, guys, tell me is this is going somewhere. in response jordan defended his panel's work in an interview saying i feel like our staff is working their tail off and we're getting things up and rolling. the chairman has threatened even more rounds of subpoenas and testimony from whistle blowers and promised even more in the days to come. we'll see you again tomorrow. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is coming up next. one of the biggest challenges we have is the disappointment of the president being so delayed. that harms the