aways from the moment, first, a rare divide between president biden and democrats on the hill, but also how crime will be a significant issue in elections for this year and certainly next. senior politics reporter for "axios," eugene scott. thank you. and thank you to you for getting up "way too early." "morning joe" starts right now. >> i was running at the time. you may remember it. i had a big fight with the former president. and maybe future president. bless me, father. anyway, all kidding aside. i can honestly say, i have never been more optimistic about america's future than i am today. i mean that sincerely. as you can tell, i've only been around a few years, like 400. >> president biden brought some

jokes with him alongside a budget proposal while he was in philadelphia yesterday. his plan has little chance of passing the republican-controlled house, making this more about campaign messaging than the actual numbers. meanwhile, there are significant developments this morning out of the manhattan d.a.'s office that signal criminal charges could be coming for donald trump. we'll get into the details of why. also ahead, a lackluster debut for the subcommittee on so-called weaponization of the federal government has some republicans frustrated now with congressman jim jor t jordan an game plan. we'll be joined by the writer of the piece in a moment. good morning to "morning joe." we have jonathan lemire. pulitzer prize winning columnist at "the washington post," eugene washington. and special correspondent for bbc news, the great katty kay. good morning to you all. as i mentioned, we're going to begin with "the new york times"

report that the manhattan district attorney's office has signalled to attorneys for former president donald trump he could face criminal charges. the paper cites four people with knowledge of the matter. it all stems from the investigation by manhattan d.a. alvin bragg's office into trump's role in the payment of hush money to adult film actress stormy daniels ahead of the 2016 election. prosecutors have offered the former president the chance to testify next week before the grand jury that has been hearing evidence in the potential case. "the times" reports it'd be unusual for a d.a. to notify a potential defendant without ultimately seeking charges against him. trump is likely to decline the offer. the former president's lawyers also could meet privately with prosecutors in an attempt to fend off criminal charges. two of trump's defense attorneys tell nbc news, trump has been told through his attorneys he can appear before the grand jury. they say this is standard. they also say there was no subpoena. trump is not being forced to do

any of this. they say trump was not told specifically that criminal charges could be forthcoming. all of this according to "the times'" sources. manhattan d.a. declined to comment on the matter. the former president wrote, in part, i did absolutely nothing wrong. i never had an affair with stormy daniels, nor would i have wanted to have an affair with stormy daniels. this is a political witch hunt, trying to take down the leading candidate, by far, in the republican party i while at the same time also leading the democrats in the polls. joining us is barbara mcquaid. good morning. thank you for helping us wade through some of this. what is the significance of donald trump being given the opportunity, at least offered the chance to sit and testify before a grand jury? what does that normally signal to you? >> you never know exactly what is happening in a grand jury, but i think we can make a strong, educated guess here that

it means two things. one is that alvin bragg is at the end of his investigation, and, two, the charges are very likely. i say that because, typically, when you are talking to the target of an investigation, you want to save that person for the end so you've already talked to all of the other witnesses and looked at all of the other documents so you can be as informed as you can be before you question that person. it also says to me that it is likely charges are coming because you would not go through this extraordinary step of inviting a former president to come testify if you are simply going to decline to charge the case after you've heard from all of those other witnesses. it seems they have reached the point where they decided, yes, charges are likely, so let's take this last step. the reason they invite the target in is just to ensure that there's not some other side to the story. it is an opportunity for that person to come in and tell them that maybe there's some innocent explanation for all this. as you reported, it is typically

something that is declined if the person does not have some valid misunderstanding to explain the whole thing away. so i think a very fair conclusion is that the investigation is over and charges will be coming. >> there's so much swirling around the former president, it is worth reminding our viewers what exactly we're talking about here in this particular case. $130,000 payment in the waning days of the 2016 presidential campaign to stormy daniels. a hush money check cut by michael cohen who, by the way, has cooperated in this investigation, spoken to the d.a.'s office many, many times, including as recently as last week. what specific crimes could we be talking about here, and what would be the penalty? >> i think it seems two kroi cr are likely. when someone falsifies business records under new york law, it's a misdemeanor unless it is used to conceal another crime. i doubt alvin bragg would go through this enormous effort to

simply charge a former president with a misdemeanor. it seems the second piece is likely. what we've heard from michael cohen, what he pled guilty to, we know that the reason for the falsification of the business records was to conceal the payment that was a donation to the campaign in 2016. had that payment been disclosed publicly, it could have damaged his political campaign or personal reputation or both. so that concealing can constitute that second crime, which converts the misdemeanor into a felony. it's a serious crime. i don't know that a lengthy prison sentence is likely. i'm not sure any prison sentence is likely, though michael cohen got three years for this combined with some other crimes. i think a felony conviction by someone running for president will be very damaging to his ability to campaign. >> yeah. i mean, jonathan lemire, let's remember, michael cohen spent more than a year in prison. he spent 13.5 months inside a federal prison in this very

case, for this hush money payment to stormy daniels that he says came from donald trump in the white house through an intermediary. but this coming, obviously, and unprecedented for a former president who is also seeking the white house again. the president said a few days ago at cpac, there's no chance he'd ever get out of the race if he is indicted, if he is charged. none of this will affect him politically. it now does become part of the 2024 conversation, obviously, if he is indicted. >> no question that it does. you're right, willie, he says he's not going anywhere, even if he is indicted on this or any of these other legal matters. we should also take a moment and note that this would be history. we've never had a former president charged with a crime, indicted for a crime. that's never happened. we seem to be on the precipice of that now. eugene robinson, let's talk through some of the politics of this moment. were trump to be, if he is to be charged, yeah, there would be

logistical challenges. he'd to have come to new york for court dates. he'd have to show up for this and that. he'd have to meet with his lawyers, things that would distract him from the campaign trail. but i have a suspicion he'll use this as political ammo. he'll say, look, this is a bias d.a. in a deep blue county coming to get me. i think his poll numbers in the republican base might go up. >> they very well might, jonathan. you know, he -- i have always thought that one reason why he got officially into the race so early, which makes it -- complicates his life a bit in terms of how he can raise and use money. he is more regulated now. but he got in early, and i think that one reason was to be able to make that claim. that any sort of charges or prosecution, it's all political. he's being persecuted by his evil enemies. they're all out to get him.

i think that might raise his numbers. i was on the air with our colleague ari melber when this broke last night. my first reaction was, you know, stormy daniels, it seems so many felonies ago. i should have said so many alleged felonies, so many impeachments, an insurrection, an attempt to steal an election. it goes on and on and on. i think he will kind of use that, as well, that this is sort of ancient history. as another indicia, that they're out to get him, it's all political. i did have a question for barbara mcquaid, if we still have her with us. >> we do. >> so that second crime that you need in order to charge a felony, that illegal donation to the campaign was prosecuted on federal charges in terms of michael cohen.

is that a state crime, as well, that alvin bragg can concern himself with in new york, or does he have to rely on that federal conviction in order to allege that second crime. >> there is a state offense for concealing campaign contributions. i would suspect he'd go that route. if he were to use the federal offense, i think the law gets a little more complicated. i don't know if he is precluded from doing that, but it seems the safer route would be to use the state court basis to make it a sound charge. suppose he could charge both, but what seems most likely is he'd use the state felony, an effort to conceal, as part of his legal theory in the case. >> barbara, we are making you work your way through all these cases. willie and gene have mentioned the fact there are a slew of legal cases facing donald trump potentially at the moment. our viewers might be forgiven for perhaps not keeping track of

them off. now, you see this one has potentially an indictment coming. maybe this is a crass way of thinking of it, but if you put it in the ladder of cases donald trump potentially faces, where do you rank it in the hierarchy of severity? >> number four. i see four criminal cases lurking out there. this is probably the least significant of them, but any felony is a serious charge. i don't want to diminish it. a prison sentence is relatively small but not insignificant. not only was it a falsification of a business record, it was done to achieve the presidential in 2016. imagine if those facts came out shortly before the election in 2016. it would have amplified some of the things we heard in the "access hollywood" tape, in his reputation about women. i think it could have been a very damaging revelation if it

had come out at that time. including with his base. that includes the religious right, information about an affair. but the other three cases that are in the constellation, interfering with the election in georgia with fani willis, very serious case because it undermines democracy which i think is a more serious crime. same with the federal case that is being investigated about the january 6th attack. and the mar-a-lago documents, you know, so blatantly and brazenly abuing the public trust that comes with safeguarding our nation's secrets. all four of these cases are serious, but i would rank it slightly behind those other three. >> that's what i wanted, the rankings. we have georgia, january 6th, mar-a-lago, and stormy is base basically the order. there has been a shuffling up and down in terms of severity, in terms of the likelihood of a

conviction. do you see that static now, the order of severity? >> no, i don't. the end of the day, the one that could be the most serious is the special counsel's investigation federally into january 6th. it's likely to encompass more than georgia. it'll include what fani willis is doing in georgia. i rank it first only because she's said her charging decision there is imminent. we know from that grand jury and the grand jury foreperson who said so publicly, that they've recommended there be more than a dozen indictments. i include the likelihood of indictment there that puts it higher. i think if, ultimately, the special counsel, jack smith, were to charge donald trump relating to his activity for january 6th, that encompasses seven other states where he attempted to overturn the election results, the attack on

the capitol. that's the looming giant out there. >> probably not a good sign when legal experts have power rankings for the legal cases against you. here we are in the case of donald trump. former u.s. attorney barbara mcquaid, thanks so much. doing a lot of work for us there. we appreciate it. >> reporter:. the republican committee held its second hearing on what is known as the twitter files. republicans brought in two journalists to testify who were hand-picked by twitter ceo elon musk to report on the alleged anti-conservative bias he claims the company operated under before he took over. for example, the twitter files showed the biden 2020 campaign team asked the company to remove nude photos of joe biden's son hunter, a former employee testified last month the trump

administration also asked a tweet to be removed where model chrissy teigen posted against the former president. this is debbie wasserman-schultz. >> they should not have slanted or easily disputed or invalid conclusion. would you agree with that? >> i think it depends. >> really? you wouldn't agree that a journalist should avoid spoon-fed, cherry-picked information? >> every story i've done across three decades involves sources who have motives. every time you do a story, you're making a balancing test. >> okay. i ask you this because before you became elon musk's hand-picked journalist, and pardon the oxymoron, you stated this on joe rogan's podcast. i quote, i think that's true of any journalism.

you'll see it behind me. i think that's true of any journalism. when you start getting handed things, then you've lost. they have you at that point, and you have to get out of that habit. you just can't cross that line. do you still believe what you told mr. rogan, yes or no? yes or no? >> yes. >> good. >> congresswoman questioning there. let's bring in jackie alemany of "the washington post". you have a new piece, "jordan's weapon-panel game plan draws critique from some of the right." some leaders in hard-right ind lekkial circles have critiqued the initial work of the subcommittee on the weaponization of the government as lackluster. some have raised concerns. the committee has been too slow to staff up, insufficient cant aggressive in issuing subpoenas for interview and testimony, and lacking in substance. the frustrations reached critical mass ahead of a

hearing. republicans allege a suppression of right-wing viewpoints on the platform. what investigation did jordan do in advance of thursday? he took an adapted screenplay said davis of an action group. he said jordan should hand this off to the lawmaker who has the time to do it. they need a strategy and dedicated staff. they need to be dogs on a bone. the criticism is not the premise of the weaponization committee, which the democrats have criticized as a waste of time and a fishing expedition in some ways. the criticism is, it's not aggressive enough, even under the leadership of jim jordan. >> exactly right, willie. these criticisms have been perk percolating for several weeks now and made their way to the

public discourse on social media platforms from these places like the center for renewing america, the heritage foundation, mike davis, these hard-right, intellectual circles. the rub here, as you point out, is that the witnesses and the targets that some of these groups are pushing have credibility issues that democrats have recently highlighted in a 316-page report that they released last week. on some of these very witnesses again, that places like the center for renewing america, the same places criticizing jordan have pushed forward to be the face of this investigation and this push to sort of flesh out the narrative, the unsubstantiated narrative, that there is corruption and bias in the federal government against conservatives and house republicans. you know, i think yesterday, jim

jordan sort of got a few more points on the scoreboard with the way that the hearing went. there was some praise that we heard from people who claim, you know, that these critics need to give him some time to build up a committee that is ambitious as they've set this committee up to be. jordan himself dismissed a lot of the criticisms in an interview. as steven miller said to us on the record, there is a conversation happening at this very moment about the falk ticks and methods of sort of the investigative strategy within the committee going forward. >> jackie, are there any republicans in that house caucus -- i know there's some senators because some of them said so publicly -- who question the wisdom of even taking this on at all? in other words, while the house can't come up with its budget yet, while it can't do a lot of the things you might expect a new body with all this power to do, it's put a lot of focus into

the so-called weaponization of the federal government and holding these hearings of institutions like the fbi and the justice department and other things, the irs, other agencies like that. are there any republicans who say, maybe we should move on to more serious business, or is this just delivering on what they promised during the campaign? >> there aren't republicans publicly saying that yet, but there is a feeling that house republicans have put forward -- we have one congressional investigator opining on the situation, that republicans do have some substantive goals that i laid out. and this committee does sort of distract the focus from those legislative targets. and jim jordan has set himself up for this task where he is trying to do the impossible by trying to explain and prove a lot of these labyrinthian

conspiracy theories. you know, i think some of the criticisms, as well, stem from the fact that jordan himself has been renascent to blow up the budget in a way the republicans on the far right are calling for, akin to the january 6th house committee that had a $20 million budget. you know, it is unclear why jordan has been dragging his feet on that, but you sort of have to wonder if that's because there is some sort of hesitation about just how far to take some of these conspiracy theories and put them up as sort of representative of the house republican strategy in this congress for the majority. >> jackie, in your last two answers, you outlined those who, in the republican party, don't think jordan is going far enough, as well as those who have expressed concern he is going too far. what is the path we should expect him to chart for? people you talked to around the committee, around jordan, you know, they are staffing up.

they've increased the number of people there as you've reported. what is he going to do, and what are future targets of his? >> yeah. well, we know that he is in the midst of trying to ramp up the staff even more right now. he told us in an interview that he has around 50 staffers. those staffers are on the judiciary committee writ large and not specifically assigned to being full-time on this subcommittee that republicans have really touted as sort of the marquee, all-powerful committee for this house gop conference. that hiring is happening, you know, this week. we could expect, potentially, some new announcements on different investigators in the coming days. we expect jordan to continue to focus on the twitter files and the federal trade commission's investigation into twitter. as democrats pointed out yesterday, republicans are largely trafficking in false narratives, that there is no there there, and they have sort

of misframed a lot of evidence that they've been pointing to in a misleading way. but jordan's success largely rests on whether or not he can identify a credible whistleblower who can fulfill, again, this narrative that there is bias and politicization in intelligence agencies. whether or not his investigators are ultimately going to be able to find that sort of neede in a hay stack is the key question. >> weaponization is a buzzword. former president trump used it in his truth social post last night, talking about the manhattan d.a., as well. jackie alemany, interesting story. it's up on the website. >> thanks, willie. senate minority leader mitch mcconnell is still in the hospital being treated for a concussion he sustained after falling at an event wednesday night. according to the communications director, the 81-year-old will remain in the hospital for a few days of observation. president biden wrote, jill and

i are wishing senator mcconnell a speedy recovery. we lock forward to seeing him back on the senate floor. we are hearing he'll be back next week. we send our best to leader mcconnell, as well. ahead on "morning joe, "president biden lays out a $6.8 trillion budget plan, setting up a fight with republican. steve rattner is breaking it down for us with his charts. plus, florida governor ron desantis will make his first appearance today in iowa. former president trump will be on his heels. we'll have a live report. the ceo of norfolk southern appears before lawmakers and apologizes for last month's toxic train derailment in ohio. we'll have highlights. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. people remember ads with a catchy song. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance,

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president biden laid out a budget proposal of nearly $7 billion, including a plan to increase taxes on the wealthy while increasing spending on the military and programs for the poor and the middle class. but in a divided congress, it is highly unlikely to pass as is. nbc news chief white house correspondent kristen welker has details. >> reporter: in battleground pennsylvania, president biden unveiling his sweeping budget proposal, calling for major tax hikes on the wealthy and increased spending. >> my budget is going to give working people a fighting chance. it's going to create good paying jobs. >> reporter: still, with divided government, that plan is dead on arrival, with republicans staunchly opposed to any new tax increases. but mr. biden's proposal likely a blueprint for his battle plan against republicans in his expected 2024 re-election bid. >> maga republicans all voted to get rid of the affordable care

act. they voted to get rid of it over 50 times since barack passed it. >> reporter: the 6.8 trillion dollar plan calls for protecting social security and shoring up medicare by raising the taxes on the wealthiest americans, including imposing a billionaire tax of 25% and hiking the corporate rate from 21% to 28%. it includes record spending on the military and increasing funding for social programs like early childhood education and child care. but republicans blasting it as a reckless tax and spend plan. >> what does this budget do? raise more taxes, spends more money, creates probably the biggest government we've ever seen in the history of the united states. >> reporter: the president's plan also an attempt to revive his standing. in our latest nbc news poll, just 36% say they approve of his handling of the economy, and just 32% say they are enthusiastic or comfortable with

him running for office again. >> kristen welker reporting there. joining us now, former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner joining us with his charts to break it down. good to see you. let's start with your first chart, a contrast between what the president put out here in this $7 trillion budget. as i said a minute ago, house republicans don't have their budget yet, but they're working on something. we get an idea of where they're headed here. >> exactly, willie. there was a republican study committee budget that came out a few weeks ago which represented one vision. a majority of republican house members were on it, one vision for what they see as the budget. as kristen welker eluded to, this is as much of a statement of the wide roles of government as it is anything arrival, but l become part of the debt ceiling debate as well as the '24

campaign. on the outlay side, we're comparing the budgets, biden's, which would be constant around 25% of gdp. even with his new programs, economic growth should hold around that level. by contrast, the red line on the left, you see how sharply it drops. those are the programs the republicans are including in their plan. you see the historical average of what the government has spent the last 50 year as a share of gdp. the democratic vision on top, holding government at 25%. the republican vision, we want to cut it way below anything we've seen before. on the revenue side, the differences are somewhat smaller, but it is the same idea. biden has a bunch of taxes, but with economic growth, it'd hold revenues at roughly the same share of gdp as it is now. the republicans would not impose any new taxes, so it'd go down.

again, you can see the historical level there with taxes being modestly above the 50-year average. >> steve, moving to your second chart, as you eluded to, specifically looking at some of the proposed cuts -- again, proposed cuts from the republican study committee. some of them speaker mccarthy already said he doesn't agree with, like cuts to medicare, medicaid, social security. a big hatchet to mandatory spending, food stamps, subsidies, and that's the beginning. >> you did my chart for me, which is helping, actually. >> i've learned from the master. >> thank you very much. after a long time of doing this. yeah, as you said, this is -- kevin mccarthy already rejected social security and medicare. the republican study committee, small cuts, raising the retirement age a bit, bigger cuts in medicare. to the extent kevin mccarthy doesn't want to do this, of

course, if you want to balance the budget, which is what republicans claim they want to do, you obviously have to have even bigger cuts in everything else. as you move across here, you can see already, we're talking major cuts in social welfare programs, medicaid in the upper right. lower left, you have food stamps, other kinds of social welfare programs of that sort. then the middle circle in the bottom is all of the other discretionary programs. everything from national parks to the federal drug administration to all the other services government provides to us. in the lower right where it goes the other way is republicans want to increase defense spending. all these numbers are relative to what biden proposed. biden did have a small defense increase. republicans want a bigger one. >> as we look at your third chart, it makes a point, steve, one we've been making for a long time here, which is that, suddenly, many republicans in the house, and we heard it from

kevin mccarthy in the clip in kristen's piece, have found their debt and deficit hawkishness again, which contrasts where they were during the trump years. >> willie, it's reminiscent of the movie "casa blanca," where they said, "gambling? gambling, there's gambling going on here." on the left, there's only the programs proposed by each of the two presidents, trump and biden, and what the impact would be on the debt. you can see in the case of trump, his big tax cut, his military spending and so forth would add about $4.9 trillion to the debt over its ten-year life. in contrast, the programs that biden has put forward so far would put far less, only $2.5 trillion on the debt over those ten years. if biden's plan were to be adopted, which it won't be, but to say what biden is prepared to do if it were up to him, it'd reduce the debt by $500 billion compared to what it would have been.

this is the $3 trillion deficit cut in effect that biden has been talking about in philadelphia yesterday and elsewhere. >> steve rattner with his famous charts explaining it so well as always. steve, thanks so much. great to see you. >> thank you, willie. jonathan lemire, let's talk about the president's plan here. significant he was out on the road making the pitch in philadelphia yesterday, not making this announcement from the white house. it did have a little bit of a feel of a campaign event. he said, quoting his father, this budget was a statement of his values. what was significant in there to you, and what kind of a statement was the white house trying to make here? >> yeah, it is unusual that a president didn't unveil his budget at the white house. i will say, it was nothing unusual at all about president biden being at a union hall, particularly one in philadelphia, a city he visits so very often. let's be clear, the word is aspirational, this budget. very little of this is going to come to pass with the republicans controlling the house. it's a statement of priorpriori as the president said.

he's put republicans in a bind, as he is proposing funding increases to popular programs, katty kay. it's a campaign blueprint for the likely re-election bid, but it also sets up what is really going to be the definitive fight, the debt ceiling this summer. people i talked to said we could be walking right up to the edge of the cliff. >> as we have done multiple times. every time we do it, we think, why are we doing this? it looks like there isn't a resolution coming. we have to see what the republicans will do. white house put their plan on the table, and now they can criticize the other side, saying, why are you trying to cut this? shore up social security and medicare. there are good economic arguments, but they're not going to get passed. for the white house, it gives them something to talk about on the campaign trail, which is why the president is out there talking about this in union halls. it'll give him a counter to when the republicans eventually come forward with their own plan.

>> one of the potential candidates who may be seeking president biden's job, florida governor ron desantis, is headed to iowa today ahead of the much-speculated-upon run for president. there will be an event in davenport and one in des moines. president trump also head to iowa, his first visit since declaring his candidacy last year. he is just missing the florida governor, arriving monday. they're first and second in early polls, though the form pert has a wide lead over desantis at this point. joining us now, "axios'" mike allen. you have new reporting about democrats advertising against desantis, even though he hasn't launched his bid yet. what more can you tel us? >> that's right. first thing's first, happy friday. >> there it is. happy friday, mike. >> on mike, we have new reporting that, today, democrats are going to launch ads that, along with president trump and

speaker mccarthy, targets desantis. he's not officially running in the republican primary, let alone running against joe biden, but these battleground ads from americanpac going up today in, sound familiar, wisconsin, michigan, north carolina, pennsylvania. they're trying to target all of those as maga republicans. we're seeing the likely desantis campaign come into focus this week. look what's going on. so you have his book tour which is doubling as a tour of early states. you mentioned that he was headed to iowa and nevada. maggie haberman reports he is going to be in new hampshire soon. they're talking about south carolina after that. that's quite a quartet. his book, by the way, debuted this week number one on the "new

york times" bestseller list. and, this morning, "politico's" jonathan martin points out that republicans also are targeting him. they're not just going after trump, but other republicans who are hopefuls for '24 are focusing on desantis. we're seeing in a very real way, what there have been hints of and speculation of before, and that is that governor desantis, the clear alternative to trump. both parties already acting on that, putting their money behind it. willie, the bottom line for desantis is he has a background, backdrop of a legislate i session. he has super majorities. as a republican governor, he'll get just about everything on his agenda. he teed up a conservative agenda, including immigration,

and he'll get all of it. >> mike, does this anti-desantis activity potentially have the effect of raiing his profile and making him more formidable as a potential candidate? >> yeah, sure. if you're desantis, you love being talked about in this way. nobody is saying anything new about him that's going to do damage. he's able to -- the book tour lets him engage and be in the political dialogue. this legislative session also lets him be out there talking about the issues he wants to. he can hold off on announcing. trump is out there, not going away, so he is able to just talk about the issues. what democrats tell us is that the reason that they are already invoking him in ads is that they think his culture war agenda is

not playing well with the women voters who are so important to them and are really going to determine -- likely to be one of the determining blocks. that's why we're seeing desantis in democratic ads already. >> willie, to mike's point, desantis' book debuted at number one on the "new york times" bestseller list, but it had asterisks, meaning bulk orders bought up the sales. likely meaning friends or groups of a politician having something to do with that. he told confidents he is leaning toward running and a super pac is in the early days of forming that'd support the run. it is coming together. likely, he'd not announce until after the florida legislation ends and he gets a state law change. that won't happen until june or so. donald trump welcoming him to the fight. >> by the way, that's how we got

you on the best seller list, too. amazon, bulk order, palettes arriving at my house. >> you didn't have to pull the curtain back, but i appreciate to you and you. thank you, guys. >> we got you there. desantis will get his look, in iowa this weekend. reality check, the poll out of new hampshire this week that had donald trump up on desantis by 41 points. the co-founder of "axios," mike allen, good to see you. wall street is in the red ahead of the february jobs report that comes out later this morning. we'll go live to cnbc to break down the numbers. plus, we will play for you part of joe and mika's exclusive sit-down with ukraine's first lady olena zelenska with former secretary of state hillary clinton. that's next on "morning joe." even if you got ppp and it only takes eight minutes to qualify.

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mr. putin is taking a longer term view. he is doubling down in many respects right now. i believe he is convinced that he can make time work for him. he can grind down the ukrainians through this war of attrition, that he can wear down western supporters of ukraine. he's convinced, also, and has been for some time, ukraine matters more to him than to us. therefore, the challenge, i think, is to puncture that view. >> william burns testifying at a hearing of the intel committee yesterday. earlier this week, joe and mika sat down with ukraine's first lady, olena zelenska, alongside former secretary of state hillary clinton. here's a port of the exclusive conversation. >> madame zelenska, i'll start with you. tell us what the situation is like for women and children in your country, for those displaced. >> translator: the situation is difficult. we have more than 7 million

women and children primarily who have been displaced abroad. we do not call them refugees. we call them temporarily displaced persons because they really want to come back. more than 6 million ukrainians have been displaced from ukraine, mostly women and children. you can imagine the situation when a woman loses her normal routine. she has to move quickly to another place, whether a different country, a different region, it's a massive change in her life. sometimes she fears it's forever. so the situation is really difficult. >> many of these families want to come home. >> translator: the majority. >> there's a debate in america and across the world about what we should be doing to help ukraine, what ukraine needs now

more than ever. what would you tell the people in the united states? what are your greatest needs? >> translator: first of all, i would like to thank you very much for the help that we have already received. it's been right to give this help. somebody, perhaps, thinks that it is out of place for a president's wife to ask for weapons, but i will ask for it because it's our salvation. it's a salvation of people who are shelled by missiles, by iranian drones. it's the salvation for our armed personnel in the front line. they are defending their country. and, of course, we must continue with this help, because any delay right now would be very dangerous. a second aspect of what we need is to hear us. tell our stories to everyone who will hear them. we need to hear voices for

change. we need the voices of opinion leaders. because, still, some people in the world believe it's not so simple, it's all so black and white, and you can have another opinion of the tragedy happening in ukraine. this is a war of invasion, and that's it. >> madam secretary, you know pet petter -- better, i think, than anyone alive about partisanship in the united states and what it has cost our country. the ukrainian war has one thing that's brought democrats and republicans together, for the most part. are you hopeful that that will continue despite the fact some house republicans are being critical of the biden administration, and even republicans that are supporting the war effort? >> well, i am hopeful that it continues, joe, because i think, as we just heard, this is a war of aggression and invasion. the behavior of the invaders has

been barbaric, and it really is a war for, not just the freedom of the ukrainian people, although that is first and foremost, it is a war for our values, for what we believe should be the birthright of every person in ukraine, in europe, in the united states, around the world. so i want to underscore that as we support the courage and the extraordinary commitment of the ukrainian people, their government, their army, their citizens, we're not doing it just because it's the right thing to do, although it is. we're doing it because we have to draw this line and make it very clear, that in 2023, this kind of aggression cannot stand. >> is it remarkable over the past five, six years, in the united states, we've had an opportunity to understand just what democracy and freedom means

at home, and now we look to what is happening in ukraine. all these things we talk about growing up, that we learn, and, suddenly, the ukrainians are fighting for what we always said we're supposed to stand for. how inspiring is that for you? >> it is so inspiring to me. i hope it is inspiring to every american, particularly those in positions to make decisions. because we have to continue, and i would even argue, increase the military support that we give the ukrainians sooner. >> does that include f-16s? >> it includes air cover, includes long-range missiles. it includes much more defensive systems and not just from us but from our nato allies and others. but they are on the front lines of freedom, and we need to support that. and we have to provide the humanitarian assistance that is so desperately needed for the

ukrainian people, both in the country and then, as the first lady says, those who are displaced temporarily outside of the country. >> madame zelenska, can you talk about the challenges your people are facing, and tell the world what they need to know? >> translator: i think that the war is an everyday challenge, and everyone in ukraine is risking their life, even just by being inside the country. just now, as we speak, the whole of ukraine is troubled by the video of the russian occupiers killing a ukrainian soldier for just saying "glory to ukraine." every time i speak in the international arena, i finish my speeches with this phrase. it means that i, also, would have been a subject of their hatred, object of their hatred if they were to meet me. some horrible cases of behavior

of occuiers toward the local population, the local civilians. a massive amount of rapes, not only of the women, the majority, of course, of the women, but there are also cases of men and boys. the general persecution service is now investigating 171 cases of rape by different means, different kinds. they are extremely inventive in how they think up these horrible tortures. there's only 171 cases of the people who were able, who found it in themselves to talk about it. the majority of the people are silent because they're scared of the invaders coming back. they're afraid of judgment. they're just scared. so these things are happening all time, and these things are terrible. and every time we open -- we

liberate another territory, sometimes we rejoice, then we start worrying about what we are going to find there. torture chambers, mass graves, et cetera. this war is not being waged with rules, conventional rules of war, it's medieval. >> that is just a portion of joe and mika's interview. you will see the full interview with ms. zelenska and hillary clinton monday on "morning joe." katty, as you listen to olena zelensky speak, the first lady of ukraine, so pointedly about what russia is doing and the tactics it is using against women and the way it is going after infrastructure and civilian targets, and not just what's happening on the front lines in the east, but now, even as of two days ago, logging missiles into lviv and kyiv and places that haven't been attacked for some time.

she is there talking tomeka, to mika and joe, that her country needs the rest of the world. >> we know about the rapes. we know there has been an uptick of trafficking of girls. 8 million ukrainians had to flee their country, the vast majority of them mothers with children who had to go live somewhere else and don't know when they'll be able to go home. this war has impacted not just those men what are fighting in those horrible meat-grinders in the east of the country, but it's impacted the whole country. when i hear zelenska talking, and what you're talking about, we are still in the war, but from my understanding, people i talk to, the prospect of, how do we rebuild this country? how do we rebuild the infrastructure that's been destroyed? how do we rebuild the mental health of this country?

this country will be traumatized, from the men who are fighting to the women who have suffered to the refugees who have had to flee the country. this is a nation that will be traumatized. there's going to have to be a huge amount of effort. that's not going to come from foreign governments. that'll have to come from the private sector, and the conversations are already being had about how that's going to happen. it won't be easy. >> mrs. zelenska has more to say about this. you can see the full interview monday on "morning joe." still ahead, the ceo of norfolk southern apologizes for the train derailment disaster in ohio but didn't commit to anything. also, we'll be joined by sherrod brown of ohio who was a part of the hearing, who has many questions for the ceo. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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i'm forcing the improvements. >> we'll continue to follow science, continue to follow data. there are a number of areas we have invested in safety systems well above government regulation. >> i'll ask you to submit that for the record. i thought when you said turn over a new leaf, i thought you were saying you were going to support safety regulations. sorry you can't tell this crowd here today that would like to hear that, that that's the case. >> the ceo of norfolk southern

dodging questions about safety reform many response to the train derailment disaster in east palestine, ohio. ohio senator sherrod brown was in the hearing yesterday on capitol hill, and he joins us in just a moment. welcome back to "morning joe." friday, march 10th. jonathan lemire, katty kay and eugene robinson still with us. joining us, president of the national action network, our good friend, the reverend al sharpton. we begin this hour with the strongest indication yet prosecutors are nearing an indictment of former president trump. the manhattan d.a.'s office now indicating to attorneys for the former president he could be criminally charged in connection with the hush money payment to adult film actress stormy daniels made before the 2016 presidential election. that is according to "the new york times," which said its reporters had spoken to four people with knowledge of the situation. "the times" also reports trump was offered the opportunity by

district attorney alvin bragg's office to testify next week to a grand jury that has been collecting evidence and hearing testimony for the criminal probe. so far, the manhattan d.a. has declined to comment. "the times" points out it'd be unusual for a d.a. to notify a potential defendant without ultimately seeking charges against him. trump is likely to decline that offer according to the paper. meanwhile, two defense attorneys for trump confirmed to nbc news, trump has been told through his attorneys he can appear before the grand jury. the attorneys say such an offer is standard, and trump was not issued a subpoena compelling his appearance. they disputed the reporting that criminal charges could be forthcoming. the former president issued a statement on his social media platform last night, denying any wrongdoing, calling the matter a, quote, political witch hunt andrew weissmann served in the

mueller special counsel's office. good to see you. we had barbara mcquaid on last hour, suggesting she believes this signals something is coming, an indictment against president trump, the former president. also, that alvin bragg is nearing the end of his investigation. do you agree with that? >> absolutely. not just because it's not a good bet to bet against barbara mcquaid, but there's just no way in god's green earth that the d.a. is going to invite a target to appear before the grand jury if the d.a. is not thinking of bringing charges. it's something you do only at the very last stage. yes, there is always the case that the former president's legal team could convince alvin bragg that he should not bring the case, but given the amount of time and the caliber of the people in that office thinking through these issues, i think that is extremely unlikely to occur. i think we're seeing -- i hate

to use the word imminently since we heard the georgia d.a. use that term also and we're still waiting, but i think this is the very last step before we will see charges in manhattan. >> andrew, let's get you to go a little further on that. your best guess as to what the timeline might be, and not just of a potential charge, but then legal matters and proceedings going forward? how long could this stretch? we know, of course, it will happen against the backdrop of trump's presidential campaign, further complicating matters. >> yeah. that's a great question. i do think we're, very soon, going to be in the position of really thinking about what will the former president do to delay things? i think it's really important to remember that the new york state charges are different than the federal charges in one really important respect. they are federally hardened

proof. whatever happens in the presidential election, pardon at the federal level cannot affect those state charges. there's another way that new york charges are different, and that's different than the georgia charges, which is we're seeing that the georgia governor and legislature are trying to take steps that allow them to remove fani willis and other d.a.s that they disagree with. new york charges are particularly deadly for somebody like former president trump because you do not have any effort by the governor here or the legislature to signal that they're in any way going to interfere with that case. that being said, the former president can try to slow up th. he needs time to prepare. he can try to claim that he was immune from prosecution. i don't think those will likely go anywhere, but your question,

is it enough to help them slow down the case? the answer, unfortunately, is, i think the answer is yes to that in any criminal case. he will have a bunch of novel issues that he can raise because we've never been in this situation before and no court has been in this situation before. it will take some time after charges are brought, before we see a trial. >> andrew, the legal consensus seems to be -- and barbara was suggesting this earlier -- the likelihood of prison time is minimal to non-existent in this particular case. so beyond the kind of political implications of this not looking good for a candidate, are there any other legal ramifications of an indictment in the stormy daniels case? he's not going to go to prison. i guess he might get some kind of fine. what are the practical impl implications legally for him in this case? >> so i think i'm going to disagree with the assessment on

the issue of whether he could do jail time. i'm just not prepared to say in this situation that there's, you know, a likelihood one way or the other. it is important to know there is a very significant legal issue about whether this charge can be sustained as a felony or whether it will be a misdemeanor. if it is a misdemeanor, i agree with you, it's very unlikely that he would go to jail. people do get charged with misdemeanors and do go to jail all the time in new york, but i also think that if it is a felony, it is much more likely that he could do jail time. in addition, for those people who are, you know, not just total trump loyalists, there is the political implication of somebody being charged while they run for president. it's worth remembering that donald trump used that argument to say why hillary clinton should not be voted for and be president, because she's going to be immersed in all of these

criminal legal cases. i mean, now that we see the shoes on the other foot, you can imagine people thinking, you know what? let him deal with his criminal cases and be distracted by that. he is not somebody i'm going to vote for. but that's really a political repercussion, not a legal one. >> rev, you know the manhattan d.a., alvin bragg. you have worked with him on different issues over the years. we should remind people that, last year, he won a conviction of the trump organization on tax fraud, 17 counts. the organization had to pay a big fine. he's got a lot of other stuff on his plate, being the manhattan d.a., dealing with crime and everything else in new york city. but how significant would this be, beyond the history we've been talking about this morning, of a former president being indicted at all, but for him to have built this case and, potentially now, on the doorstep of bringing charges against donald trump? >> it would be very significant. i mean, i don't think you can underestimate the impact of the

first time in american history a former president may be indicted. having said that, i know alvin bragg very well. he comes to the national action network. we have rallies every saturday morning, and he comes once or twice a month. he's a sunday schoolteacher at his home church in harlem. we know him well. having said that, he will discuss nothing about this case or any other case. i have no indication of what he is going to do. but i think he has the kind of backbone, and he is a very deliberate, serious legal mind and prosecutor. whatever he does, it is well thought out. let's remember, he took a lot of flak when he first came in. many of us in our community felt unfairly, when he wouldn't proceed the way some of the assistant prosecutors wanted him to. they even resigned, run and wrote a book. he took all the flak, all the press that's raising him up now,

were condemning him, and he was steadfast. whatever he does, he's going to do it rock solid. which brings me to you, andrew. the question i have for you from a legal point of view is, if this d.a. does go forward as we are being told by "the new york times" this morning that is likely, it is something that you would think as a legal mind that he has looked to the possibilities of victory or not, given that he turned down moving forward earlier. would it say to you there would be a more ironclad case, at least in the mind of the prosecutor, if, in fact, an indictment was the result? >> absolutely. and i share your view of alvin bragg in terms of how he's dealt with adverse press and stuck to his guns. i've always thought this was the sleeper case, and you never know if that's true or not. it looks, by all accounts, that that's the case. i would suspect that what he has

done during this past year while he has been putting together and trying the trump organization case and convicting the cfo, mr. weisselberg, is he has put various people in the grand jury. we saw that you have people like kellyanne conway and hope hicks and other people to shore up this case. i'm sure he has looked through every single legal issue that could be raised to attack the case so that it is ready. he, himself, the d.a., has said he was only going to bring this case if it was warranted and when it was ready. he said that the reason he had not proceeded when he first came into office was because he said the case was not ready, and so that is the responsible thing to do, is to only bring a case when it is ready and when you believe it is appropriate to bring charges all together.

i do think we're about to see that. >> we will see. it's certainly a big sign this morning. nbc news legal analyst andrew weissmann. thanks so much. we always appreciate it. norfolk southern ceo alan shaw is apologizing to the residents of east palestine, ohio, and its surrounding communities following last month's train derailment and toxic chemical spill. he testified yesterday before the committee on public works, promising to, quote, make it right. what does that mean? correspondent tom costello has details. >> i want to begin today by expressing how deeply sorry i am. >> reporter: fully expecting a bipartisan grilling, norfolk southern ceo alan shaw started with an apology and a promise. >> we're going to be there for as long as it takes to help east palestine thrive and recover. that's my personal commitment. >> reporter: but when senators asked for specific commitments to cover residents' medical

expenses for exposure to toxins, and lost property value, the railroad exec kept it vague. >> will you commit to paying for long-term medical testing for people in the impacted community? >> senator, i'll do what is right. >> will you commit to compensating homeowners for diminished property values? >> i'm committed to doing what is right. >> what's right is a family that had a home worth $100,000 that is now worth $50,000. they'll probably never be able to sell the home for $100,000 again. will you compensate that family for that loss? >> senator, i'm committing to do what's right. >> that is the right thing to do. >> reporter: shaw said the company has already pledged $21 million to help the area, insisting he runs a safe railroad. but as he was speaking, word of another norfolk southern derailment. 30 cars in alabama. no injuries and no hazmat spill. over the weekend, a norfolk southern train derailed in

springfield, ohio. again, no injuries. also under fire for its response, the epa. >> why did it take weeks for the epa administrator to drink the water he repeatedly told residents was safe? >> reporter: the epa reported east palestine air and water samples continued to test clean. norfolk southern has had 28 spills over eight years. the railroad industry averages one a month. the ohio republican, jd vance, took aim at members of his own party who oppose new railroad safety regulations. >> we have a choice, are we for big business and big government, or are we for the people of east palestine? >> reporter: shaw says he'd support parts of the new regs but not all. >> norfolk southern runs a safe railroad. and it's my commitment to improve that safety. >> tom costello reporting there. joining us now, democratic senator sherrod brown of ohio, who also testified before the

senate committee yesterday. senator, good to have you with us. what did you think yesterday as you listened to mr. shaw saying he was going to do the right thing again and again, without offering specifics? what more would you like to hear from him? >> i hope -- i appreciate yesterday when you talked to misty and jessica. i was actually in the hall speaking to them when shaw was doing his testimony. of course, i watched it last night. i was hoping two things. i was hoping, one, that he would make every whole, not do the dodging questions, as you said, from senator markey showed in questions. what does that mean down the road when somebody gets sick from a chemical two years, three years down the road, that he'd pay for that and everything else from the disaster his company caused. i hoped he said, yes, i'll

support brown-vance, i'll pass this legislation. it's time for stiffer rules. he dodged that question, too. i was hopeful but not confident he'd do the right things. the apology, i assume, was heartfelt, but i don't know. i can't read anybody's heart, of course. >> senator, you mentioned we had jessica and misty on yesterday, two residents of east palestine who laid out on our show what it's like to live there in the last month, the concerns. one has three children, the other has two. how they're going to continue to live in a place that, yes, the epa is saying the water and the air are safe for them, but do you take that at face value and put your kids back into a house where there's been a toxic oil spill? what's it like for other residents you've spoken to there? >> when i go to east palestine and talk to people, i hear the same things, exactly what you said. for instance, i was talking to a

woman who has a form 4 miles from where the disaster occurred. she has 25 beef cattle. she has regular customers she sells a side of beef to every year. she's getting a call from the customers saying, is it safe to eat this meat now? she doesn't know what the answer is, but you can bet other people are going to look in a different place. it's the water, the air, the home values. it's getting your life -- all they want is to return to the lives they had prior to february of 2023. it doesn't look like norfolk southern is being too helpful to help them do that. >> senator, i assume the air in east palestine no longer smells like a swimming pool, which it did before. you have worked with senator vance, at least in parallel, in

trying to represent your constituents in east palestine. do you think there's any chance of bipartisan consensus on tougher regulation that could prevent future disasters like this? >> we've got our legislation, brown-vance. it's got three republican sponsors, three democratic sponsors. vance and i are leading this. he's heard the same thing in east palestine, columbiana county, that part of the state. he hears the same things i do, and we came to agreement on this. he is having trouble getting some republicans who believe, frankly, and know environmental rules, no consumer protections, they don't believe in rules and regulation. i thought senator vance took them to school when he looked at the republican side and talked about that. we're going to get 60 votes in the senate. i think we may get 65 or 70. we will have every democrat. we will have at least enough republicans.

i think people look at this, and the anger and frustration coming out of the community, because they all recognize this is a very profitable company. they hear now that norfolk southern laid out more than a third, 38% of their worker in the last ten years. they know the immensely -- they took billions of dollars in stock buybacks. all of those things just point to the fact that this company cares more about profits than our communities in ohio and around the country. that's going to be enough, i think, to tip enough republicans to say, you know, sometimes government rules and regulations do make sense. maybe just the political pressure, whatever it takes to get there, i think we're going to get 65 votes, the 65, 65 to 70 votes. this has a chance of becoming law, and, for the first time, holding railroads accountable to the public as well as

stockholders. >> politics shouldn't play into it. this is clear what is going on. the legislation is bipartisan. senator sherrod brown of ohio, thanks for your time today. >> of course. still ahead on "morning joe," florida governor ron desantis and former president trump both are heading to iowa. we'll get a live report from that closely watched state and dig into new polling on the 2024 republican race for that nomination. plus, stock futures are in the red right now ahead of this morning's jobs report. we'll have some new numbers just as soon as they cross. also ahead, an update on senate minority leader mitch mcconnell's condition after he was hospitalized this week after a fall. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪

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davenport, one in des moines. former president trump also is headed to the state. his first visit since declaring his candidacy last year. he's scheduled to visit on monday. let's bring in msnbc correspondent dasha burns. nikki haley there all week. ron desantis today, donald trump on monday. >> reporter: yeah, willie, can you believe it? it is already the sort of unofficial kick-off of the iowa caucuses. it is frigid here. it just reminds me of flashbacks from election cycles past. this time around, the iowa caucuses could be even more significant, more important, and winnowing down what is expected to be a wide field for the gop. the desantis visit here is real really critical. this is part of his tour promoting his memoir, largely a playbook of florida policies that he describes as the blueprint for america's revival.

it's been a vehicle for his message. we're expecting him to talk a lot about what he sees as florida's biggest successes under his administration, how that could apply here in iowa and nationally. that book, by the way, sits atop of "new york times" bestseller list and beat out trump and obama's books in the first week of sales. iowa is a state that's all about the retail politics. the voters here take their duties very seriously. they want those handshakes. they want direct answers to questions. this will be a really interesting test to see how desantis might appeal to voters outside of florida and how he might contrast his appearance with former president trump, whose adviser tells me that we should be looking out for him on monday when he visits the state here to really set up a contrast in terms of policy with the

governor. expect him to focus on policy areas like ethanol, which is critical in iowa, and social security and medicaid, which trump sees as a distinction in policy between himself and the governor. and a fresh poll out this morning, willie, here in iowa, shows trump's support slipping just a little bit and desantis gaining momentum. so it's early days, but really important to watch here, willie. >> the iowa caucus is 11 months away, but it feels like they're campaigning heatedly already. dasha burns in davenport, thanks so much. dasha mentioned the poll just crossing from the des moines register. former president trump has the highest favorability rate among iowa republicans at 80%. these are candidates and potential candidates. governor desantis, though, right behind him at 74%, though with a lower unfavorable number. former south carolina governor nikki haley, who has done two tours of iowa so far, still the

least known candidate with 40% still unsure about her. neck and neck there, jonathan lemire, in terms of favorability between former president trump and governor desantis. donald trump's favorability, people who say they'd definitely vote for him if he were the nominee, has slipped significantly over the last year, year and a half or so. what to you see at first blush in those numbers? >> this poll is probably the best we've seen for governor desantis in a couple weeks now. it does feel like trump has some momentum and, of course, we put the caveat, it is very, very, very, very early. we don't need to be -- so we take these numbers appropriately with a measure of skepticism. desantis, you know, has been trailing trump in most polls we've seen the last couple weeks. it feels like trump, now that his campaign has begun in earnest, the cpac speech and so on, that he has sort of climbed the mantle of the pretty clear favorite in the republican party.

if you're governor desantis and you feel like you have momentum coming off of the rout of his re-election bid last year, fox news gives him a lot of coverage, mostly favorable, you feel you have momentum, rev. how do you see it here, though? in terms of governor desantis, there is this great unknown. how is he going to be portrayed on the national stage? it's one thing to do it in a green room in washington. it's one thing to do it in the statehouse in tallahassee when the legislature bends to your every whim. we haven't really seen him out there that much across the country. how is he going to sell himself to voters? what challenges do you see? >> the challenge is that he is now going on a big stage, not a -- just a local, statewide stage. a lot of what he is representing will be received differently by a broader audience. his whole anti-woke, anti-lgbtq, anti-parts of black history being taught, what he's done in

terms of covid-19 and testing and vaccination. on a big stage with a broader audience, he will not only have a cheering squad. the other thing we are going to have to look for is can he take a real fight? he is going to go up against donald trump who loves a fight. i mean, you get the best out of trump, whatever that is, people like me think it's the worst, but what trump does, he's at his best when he's in a fight. he needs a fight to come alive, and he will clobber desantis with everything and then some. can desantis take that and dish it back? i think this is going to be some of the things we don't know. if we were going to dinner with desantis, we're only at the appetizing order stage. we're not near the main dish. >> we're not even near the meatball stage quite yet, rev. >> oh, i see. i see it. >> not bad, right?

willie, all of that viegt. there's still questions. the trump people i speak to still seem confident that, when it comes to a one-on-one, desantis would get destroyed by trump on a debate stage. the problems that desantis has as a public speaker is still there. he can be awkward. he is not particularly personable. they think trump can use all of that to his advantage. that's the reason that desantis is not taking trump on yet. there is no advantage yet to desantis going head-to-head against trump. he wants to get trump's voters. he doesn't want to alienate donald trump. at some point, they know it's going to have to come to a clash between these two people. it's really going to be played out on those debate stages. that's where the american public is going to get their chance to see these two men in action against each other and have their chance to decide which of them they want. the trump people seem pretty confident at the moment that all plays to their advantage. >> he is definitely, desantis, the candidate that has the trump

campaign's attention the most, but they also feel good about their chances head-to-head with him. meatballs, by the way, is a great appetizer. little leaf dropped on there, parm on top. we can start with the meatballs is all i'm saying. eugene robinson, let me ask about the des moines register poll. donald trump is no sure thing for iowa, is how it was boiled down. the number of republicans in iowa who said they'd definitely vote for him as the nominee is down significantly. as we showed in the numbers, in terms of favorability, ron desantis is pretty close to where the former president is. >> yeah, he is. that's, i think, because where republicans have heard a lot of good things about desantis, from fox news, which has been pretty positive in its coverage, and, you know, he won a big victory in florida last year.

this is his moment to come forward. we'll see how he plays in iowa, away from florida. i have a question about his seeming sort of hhumorlessness. i wonder if that'll wear well. maybe it will. maybe that's something -- or maybe he can sort of develop a persona that is not offputting and that is -- that has some warmth to it, which people generally like. but, you know, one thing we should keep in mind is that donald trump is never going to just kind of quietly go away. so if the idea is that desantis could come in and even win iowa, then sort of cruise ahead, i'd say think again. because trump is just going to

fight tooth and nail to the bitter end. >> scorched earth, without question. coming up next, a look at the latest push to end daylight saving time as we get ready to spring forward this weekend. and a little later, a breakdown of president biden's budget proposal and how it stacks up against former presidents, including the previous one. "morning joe" is back in just a moment. if your business kept on employees through the pandemic, getrefunds.com can see if it may qualify for a payroll tax refund of up to $26,000 per employee, even if it received ppp, and all it takes is eight minutes to get started. then we'll work with you to fill out your forms and submit the application; that easy.

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a michigan man faces up to five years in prison for allegedly threatening to murder jewish leaders in the state. john eugene carpenter was indicted on hate crime charges yesterday after prosecutors say he posted on social media about plans to, quote, carry out the punishment of death to jewish government officials in michigan. it included the attorney

general, dana nessel, who said the fbi told her she was among those targeted. jonathan greenblatt's book "it could happen here" is out you in paperbook. there's a new report drilling down into anti-semitism. what'd you find? >> we released a report specifically on the topic of white supremacist propaganda. it probably won't surprise you, willie, because we've talked about these issues here on "morning joe" before, but we saw, again, almost a 40% increase year-over-year in white supremacist propaganda across the united states. we had incidents in all 48 continental states. we saw nearly a doubling of that kind of propaganda specifically focused on jews. but everything from, you know, banners thrown over highway

overpasses, to a 50% increase in white supremacist public events, to stickering, flyerflyering, e using laser-projected images on buildings. the reality is, extremists feel emboldened in this moment, willie, and i think it's something we all have to worry about. the lead-in you just did, what almost happened in michigan is a reminder that rhetoric can lead to real world violence. >> jonathan, looking at this report, you would think, and you and i talked about this a lot, about the issues dealing with anti-semitism, you'd think after charlottesville, it would have shocked the nation into making progress. we've seen synagogues shot at. we heard the literature and on social media. even people calling themselves

neo-nazis, watching a broadway play. what do you think is the impetus of this? why have we seen an increase rather than a decrease in people being bold with their hate after charlottesville? >> there are a few things going on. i definitely think social media is a super spreader of extremism and hate. i think these extremists feel emboldened on all sides to get into the political process. i will say, like, while you have, you know, if you will, extremists on both sides of the spectrum, last weekend at cpac, candidate trump was using the kind of language about expelling warmongers from the party. he talked about driving out the globalists, casting out the communists, throwing off the political class. that's right out of gerbils. in an environment where political leaders are engaging in poisonous rhetoric and using it to propel their campaign, nobody should be shopped that

white supremacists feel like now is their time. >> so it is the mainstreaming by people in the political, acceptable kind of public space. >> i would say with the president of the united states, president of a university or president of the school board. when you give explicit permission like he did, or you give it implicitly by not calling it out when it happens, in the end, all of us suffer. >> how difficult is it for those you and i and others had a hate summit at the white house. the president, vice president came. how effective is it for organizations gathering, just people in the neighborhood coming together, how important is that, or is that just symbolic and not effective? >> symbols matter. like, we need a whole of society strategy to stop this because there's no silver bullet, rev, right? there's no wand we can wave that will make it go away. we need people in public life to speak out, people in positions

of authority. whether you're the president or the speaker or a local elected official, showing up matters, but so does sticking around. it's great to do the summit on united we stand. now, we need a united we stand all year round. it looks at, is law enforcement working effectively with communities, following up on hate. are faith leaders speaking out from the ppulpit? do we have business executives using their platforms in order to create, not just inclusive environments, but, again, the social media companies, they have a responsibility to take a stand and to push back on the kind of prejudice their algorithms are amplifying. >> jonathan, you have well documented the embrace that donald trump has given white supremacists and this sort of language over the years. >> yeah. >> as you survey the rest of the republican party right now,

let's focus on them because their presidential primary is starting to ramp up, what are you seeing from the other possible candidates, the other prominent choing trump on these matters? >> not quite. you have to say that culture wars ultimately consume everyone. i don't like to see candidates on either side playing that card. but i've got to say, jonathan, you can't help but note, the other two prominent people in the republican party who are out as nominees are nikki haley and swami. he's from indonesia. nikki is a shikh dissent. we need the republican party to explicitly and intentionally reject this rhetoric. we haven't quite seen that yet. >> jonathan, we've heard chris wray say that this is the single biggest threat in terms of terrorism to the united states

at the moment. we had jay johnson on the program, the former head of the department of homeland security a couple weeks ago. the dhs is not geared up to deal with white supremacist. they're not focused on it, haven't put in the resources to deal with it. is that true across the board? has there been a slowness to put in resources to deal with this at the federal level? >> jay johnson knows his stuff. for 20 years, the intelligence apparatus and the law enforcement machine has been focused on the threat of islamic extremism, with good reason. al qaeda, hezbollah, hamas, all these threats are real facing americans. yet, chris wray is correct. domestic extremism, from the people who marauded through the capitol, who want to kill michigan legislalegislators, isr

and present danger. dhs, other parts of the apparatus are not geared up for it. that's why the adl monitors extremists and works with law enforcement, to help them to equip them with the intelligence they need to stop this once and for all. >> the new adl report is eye-opening, alarming and worth a read for everyone. ceo of the anti-defamation league, jonathan greenblat, good to see you. >> thank you. we'll be joined by a member of the weaponization committee. yesterday's hearing focused on reports known as the twitter files. plus, another high-profile college basketball head coach leaving his alma mater. and the new york yankees add a big name to the injury list. it's all coming up on "morning joe." there's always a fresh deal on the subway app. like this one! 50% off?! that deal's so good we don't even need an eight-time all-star to tell you about it.

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sere accuse's legendary basketball coach jim bayheim left the school after 40 years. now another legend is out. georgetown fired patrick ewing yesterday after six seasons, he led the hoyas to three final fours and a national championship as a player, simply could not replicate that success as a head coach or even come close. georgetown went 7-25 this season. a season that ended wednesday with a 32-point loss to villanova at madison square garden. it had a 29-game big east losing streak and only made the ncaa tournament once during ewing's six seasons on the bench. obviously, patrick ewing one of the greatest players to ever play in the nba, an absolute icon at that school but they just weren't competitive anymore. the last two years in the big east they were 2-37, a combined record, which at a school with a basketball legacy like that, you

just can't have it. >> a big name. we went deep on bayheim yesterday, willie, yesterday patrick ewing's resume not as significant. it didn't quite work there. he was heralded as a returning hero, beloved on campus, an absolute legend for the georgetown hoyas. there was a lot of speculation he was going to be fired at the end of last season, which georgetown put up an equally as dismal record. one more year to turn it around. didn't work out. he'll always be a beloved member of the georgetown family but his tenure has coaching had to end. fans and boosters were ready for him to go. >> i had forgotten two years ago they did have that one run where they won and went to the tournament. but that was during a .500 season. only one winning season. to baseball, jonathan, i know you're upset, a significant setback for the new york yankees pitching staff. starter carlos rodon will miss the start of the season. he was the big free agent signing for the yankees in the

offseason, six years, $162 million, the yankees already missing another pitcher, frankie monottas who will be out for months. two relievers on the injured list. luckily we're pretty deep, the yankees, and may only be out until april, rodon, don't like to see this in march when we're already talking about arm problems. >> you're able to acquire depth. >> oh, come on. >> rodon, hopefully he's only out for a month, four arm injuries? those are often precursors to bigger things, forearm strain leads to tommy john surgery down the road. montas might be out the whole season. he's acknowledged he was already injured when the yankees traded for him last year from oakland. so yeah, you don't love to see it going opening day limping

there with not ideal circumstances, in terms of health. but yankees have garrett cole, other hit pitchers, they likely will be fine, and i'm sure, willie, you kind of got -- days to opening day, under three weeks. >> yeah, real close here. red sox steam rolling their way through the grapefruit league which always means you go on to win the world series? >> if you ever needed more evidence that spring training means absolutely nothing it's right now. the red sox are undefeated, 9-0 somehow, although a couple games were against boston college and northeastern university and a few high school squads, i believe, hopes remain low here in the red sox corner of "morning joe" table. >> where you like to keep them at all times. prosecutors signal former president trump could face criminal charges. we'll have legal analysis of that story, what it could mean for trump's 2024 white house bid. going to break, on sunday

today, my guest will be idris elba, one of the coolest, smoothest guys i've ever gotten a chance to interview, and a great actor who go along with it. he's got the popular series "luther" on the bbc in the uk, now it has become a netflix film, where he plays a detective with a hard edge. and we get into questions whether he will be the next james bond, questions i can tell you, he is sick of answering. idris elba, coming up this weekend on "nbc sunday today," and "morning joe" coming right back. back

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you remember i was running for office, but you all may remember it that i had a big fight with the former president, and maybe future president, bless me, father. anyway -- no, i'll -- all kidding aside. i can honestly say i have never been more optimistic about

america's future than i am today. i mean that sincerely. as you can tell i've only been around a few years. like 400. >> president biden brought some jokes with him alongside a budget proposal while he was in philadelphia yesterday, but his plan has little chance of passing the republican-controlled house, making this more about campaign messaging than the actual numbers. meanwhile, there are significant developments this morning out of the manhattan da's office that signal criminal charges could be coming for donald trump. we'll get into the details of why. also ahead, a lackluster debut for the sub-committee on so-called weaponization of the federal government has some republicans frustrated now with congressman jim jordan and his game plan. we'll be joined by a reporter of that piece for the "washington post" in just a minute. good morning, and welcome to "morning joe," it's friday, march 10. with us we have the host of way

too early jonathan lemire, eugene robinson, and u.s. special correspondent for bbc news, the great catty cay. the manhattan district attorney's office has signalled donald trump could face criminal charges. the paper cites four people with knowledge of the matter. it all stems from the investigation by manhattan da alvin brag's office into trump's role in the payment of hush money to adult film actress stormy daniels ahead of the 2016 election. prosecutors now have offered the former president the chance to testify next week before the grand jury that has been hearing evidence in the potential case. the times reports it would be unusual for a da to notify a potential defendant without ultimately seeking charges against him. but trump is likely to decline that offer, according to the paper. the former president's lawyers also could meet privately with prosecutors in an attempt to

fend off criminal charges. two of trump's defense attorneys tell nbc news trump has been told through his attorneys he can appear before the grand jury. they say this is standard. they also say there was no subpoena, trump is not being forced to do any of this, and they say trump was not told specifically that criminal charges could be forthcoming. all of this, according to the "times" sources. the manhattan do, a has declined to comment on the matter. the former did issue a statement on social media late last night writing in part, i did absolutely nothing wrong, i never had an afir with stormy daniels nor would i have wanted to have an affair with stormy daniels. this is a political witch hunt, he writes, trying to take down the leading candidate by far in the republican party while at the same time also leading all democrats in the polls. joining us now, former u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor barbara mcquaid. barbara, morning, it's great to have you on to wade through this. what is the significance of donald trump being given the opportunity, at least offered

the chance, to sit and they have before a grand jury? what does that normally signal to you? >> well, you never know exactly what's happening in a grand jury but i think we can make a very strong educated guess here that it means two things. one is that alvin brag is at the end of his investigation, and two, that charges are very likely. and i say that because typically when you are talking to the target of an investigation, you want to save that person for the end so that you've already talked to all the other witnesses, and looked at all of the other documents, so that you can be as informed as you can be before you question that person. it also says to me that it is likely that charges are coming because you would not go through this extraordinary step of inviting a former president to come testify if you are simply going to decline to charge the case after you've heard from all of those other witnesses. it seems that they have reached the point where they have decided yes, it does appear charges are likely. the reason they invite the

target in is to ensure there's not some other side of the story. as you reported, it is typically something that is declined if the person does not have some, you know, valid misunderstanding to explain the whole thing away. so i think a very fair conclusion is that the investigation is over, and that charges will be coming. >> there's so much swirling around the former president. it's worth reminding our viewers what exactly we're talking about here in this particular case, which is that $130,000 payment in the waning days of the 2016 presidential campaign to stormy daniels, a hush money check cut by michael cohen who, by the way, has cooperated in this investigation, spoken to the da's office many, many times, including as recently as last week. so what specific crimes could we be talking about here, and what would be the penalty? >> i think it seems that two crimes are likely.

when someone falsifies business records under new york law it is a misdemeanor unless it is used to conceal another crime. i doubt alvin brag would go through all of this enormous effort to charge a former president with a misdemeanor. it seems that second piece is likely. and here, based on what we've heard publicly from michael cohen and what he pled guilty to, we know that the reason for the falsification of the business records was to conceal the payment that was a donation to the campaign in 2016. had that payment been disclosed publicly it could have damaged his political campaign or his personal reputation or both. and so that concealing can constitute that second crime which converts the misdemeanor into a felony. that's a serious crime. i don't know that lengthy prison sentence is likely. i'm not sure any prison sentence is likely, though i will note that michael cohen got three years for this combined with some other crimes. but i think a felony conviction

by someone running for president will be very damaging to his ability to campaign. >> yeah, i mean, john than lemire, let's remember that michael cohen spent more than a year in prison, spent 13 1/2 months inside a federal prison for this very case, for this hush money payment that he says came from donald trump in the white house through an intermediary. this coming, obviously unprecedented for a former president who is also seeking the white house again, the president said just a few days ago at cpac, no chance he would ever get out of the race if he's indicted or charged, none of this will affect him politically. . it now comes part of the 2024 conversation obviously if he's indicted. >> no question it does. you're right, willie. he says he's not going anywhere even if he's indicted on this or any other legal matters. we should also take a moment and just note that this would be history. we've never had a former president charged with a crime, indicted for a crime. that's never happened. and we seem to be on the precipice of that now.

and eugene robinson, let's talk through the politics of this moment. were trump to be, if he is charged, there would be logistical challenges, he'd have to come to new york for court dates, show up for this and that, meet with his lawyers, things that would distract him from the campaign trail. i have a suspicion that he'll use this as political ammo. he'll say, look, this is a biased da, and a deep blue liberal city that's coming to get me. an argument frankly he can make about fulton county as well if that were to lead to criminal charges, his poll numbers in the republican base might go up. >> they very well might, jonathan. you know, he -- i have always thought that one reason why he got officially into the race so early, which makes it -- complicates his life a bit in terms of how he can raise and use money. he's more regulated now. but he got in early, and i think

that one reason was to be able to make that claim, that any sort of charges or prosecution is all political. he's being persecuted by his enemies, they're all out to get him. i think that might raise his numbers. i was on the air with our colleague ari melber when this broke last night and my first reaction was, you know stormy daniels, it seems like so many felonies ago. i should have said so many alleged felonies, impeachments, an insurrection, an attempt to steal an election. it goes on and on and on. he will kind of use that as well, that this is sort ancient history. and as another indicia that they're just out to get him, that it's all political. i had a question for barb mcquade if we still have her with us. >> we do. >> that second crime that you

need in order to charge a felony, that illegal donation to the campaign was prosecuted on federal charges in terms of michael cohen. is that a state crime as well? that alvin brag can concern himself with in new york. or does he have to rely on that federal conviction in order to allege that second crime? >> yeah, there's also a state offense for concealing campaign contributions, and so i would suspect he would go that route if he were to use the federal offense i think the law gets a little more complicated. i don't know if he's precluded from doing that, but it seems the safer route would be to use the state court basis to make it a sound charge. suppose he could charge both but i think what seems most likely is that he would use that state felony in an effort to conceal as part of his legal theory in this case. >> and barbara, i'm glad we have you this morning, we are certainly making you work your

way through all these cases. but willie and gene have mentioned the fact there are a slew of legal cases facing donald trump potentially at the moment our viewers might be forgiven for perhaps not keeping track of them all. this one has potentially an indictment coming. where do you put it? maybe this is a crass way of thinking about it. if you put it in the constellation or the ladder of cases that donald trump potentially faces, where do you kind of rank it in the hierarchy of severity? >> i put it as number four. i see four criminal cases that are lurking out there. this is probably the least significant of them. but any felony is a very serious charge. so i don't want to diminish it in any way. i think the likely prison sentence in a case like this is probably relatively small. but it is not insignificant because not only was it a falsification of a business record, it was done to achieve the presidency in 2016. imagine if those facts had come

out shortly before the election in 2016. it would have really amplified some of the things we heard in the "access hollywood" tape, in his reputation about women. i think it could have been a very damaging revelation if it had come out at that time, including with his base, it includes the religious right information about an affair. but the other three cases in the constellation, you know, interfering with the election in georgia with fonny willis, very serious case because it undermines democracy, a more serious crime. same with regard to the federal case that's being investigated about the january 6th attack and the mar-a-lago documents, you know, so blatantly and brazenly abusing the public trust that comes with safeguarding our nation's secrets. all four of these cases are serious, but i would rank it slightly behind those other three. >> okay, you answered my request, barbara, we got georgia, january the 6th,

mar-a-lago and stormy is basically the order. i know sometimes there's been different thinking about those shuffle up and down in terms of severity and likelihood of both an indictment and then a conviction. do you see those as pretty static now, that ordering of severity? >> no, i don't. and, in fact, i think at the end of the day the one that could be the most serious of all would be the special counsel's investigation federally into january 6th because i think it is likely to encompass more than georgia. so i think it will include what fonny willis is doing in georgia, i rank that first only because she has said her charging decision there is imminent and we know from that grand jury and the grand jury foreperson who said so publicly that they've recommended that there be more than a dozen indictments. so i think it includes the likelihood of indictment there that puts it higher. i think that if ultimately the special counsel jack smith were to charge donald trump relating to his activity for january 6th, that encompasses so much more,

it encompasses at least seven other states where actions were occurred by donald trump to overturn the election results, the attack on the capitol. so i think potentially that one is the looming giant out there. >> probably not a good sign for you when legal experts have power rankings for the legal cases against you but here we are in the case of donald trump. former u.s. attorney barbara mcquade, thanks so much, doing a lot of work for us there, we appreciate it. the republican-formed house sub-committee investigating the weaponization of the federal government, second hearing on twitter files on capitol hill. the republicans brought in two journalists to testify hand picked by twitter ceo elon musk to report on the alleged anti-conservative bias he claims the company operated under before he took over. it comes as house republican leaders continue to accuse tech companies of crying to censor right wing voices, even when evidence often suggests

otherwise. for example, while the twitter files did show the biden 2020 campaign team asked the company to remove nude photos of joe biden's son hunter, a former employee testified last month the trump administration also asked twitter to remove a tweet where model chrissy teigen insulted the president. it was brought up by wasserman-schultz. >> slanted in complete or designed to reach a fore gone easily disputed or invalid conclusion. would you agree with that? >> i think it depends. >> really? you wouldn't agree that a journalist should avoid spoon-fed, cherry-picked information. >> every reported story that i've ever done across three decades involve sources who have motives. every time you do a story you're making a balancing test. >> i ask you this because before you came elon musk's hand-picked

journalists, and pardon the ok see moron. you stated this about being spoon-fed information. i think that's true of any kind of journalism. once you start getting handed things, then you've lost. they have you at that point, and you've got to get out of that habit. you just can't cross that line. do you still believe what you told mr. rogan, yes or no? yes or no? >> yes. >> good. >> congresswoman questioning matt taiibi there. for the "washington post," we've got jackie alemeni. you write this in the "washington post," some leaderers have critiqued the work of the subcommittee on the weaponization of the federal government as lackluster and unfocused. republican lawmakers have

privately raised concerns. critics say the committee has been too slow to staff up, insufficiently aggressive in issuing subpoenas for interviews and testimony and lacking in substance. the frustrations reached critical mass ahead of a thursday hearing, the subcommittee's second, featuring testimony from people who were given access to twitter's internal communications that republicans allege show the suppression of right-wing viewpoints on the platform. here's the issue, what independent investigation did jim jordan do in advance of thursday? he took an adapted screen play of the journalists' tweets ahead. jordan should hand off the committee to a lawmaker who has the time to do it. this needs to be a big undertaking and they need a strategy and a dedicated focused staff. they need to be dogs on a bone. jackie, the criticism here is not the premise of the weaponization committee, which the democrats have criticized as a waste of time and a fishing expedition in some ways. the credit schism is, it's not

aggressive enough, even under the leadership of jim jordan. >> that's exactly right, willie. these criticisms have been percolating several weeks now and have made their way into public discourse on social media platforms from places like the center for renewing america, the heritage foundation, mike davis, these hard right intellectual circles. but the rub here, as you point out, is that the witnesses and the targets that some of these groups are pushing have credibility issues that democrats have recently highlighted in a report of 316-page report that they released last week on some of these very witnesses, again, that places like the center for renewing america, the same places criticizing jordan have pushed forward to be sort of the face of this investigation, and this -- this push to sort of flesh out the narrative, the

unsubstantiated narrative that there is corruption and bias in the federal government against -- against conservatives. and house republicans. you know, i think yesterday jim jordan sort of got a few more points on the scoreboard with the way the hearing went. there was some praise that we heard from people who claim, you know, that these critics need to give him some time to build up a committee that is ambitious as they've set this committee out to be. and jordan himself dismissed a lot of the criticisms in an interview. but there is, you know, as stephen miller said to us on the record, there's a conversation happening at this very moment about the tactics and methods of sort of the investigative strategy within the committee going forward. >> jackie, are there any republicans in that house caucus? i know there are some senators because some of them have said

so publicly who question the wisdom of taking this on at all? in other words while the house can't come up with its bunlt yet, while it can't do a lot of the things you might expect a new body with all this power to do, it's put a lot of focus into the so-called weaponization of the federal government in holding these hearings of institutions like the fbi and the justice department and other -- the irs, other agencies like that. are there any republicans who say we should move on to more serious business or is this just delivering on what they promised during the campaign? >> there aren't republicans publicly saying that yet but there is a feeling that house republicans have put forward, we have one congressional investigator who was sort of opining on the situation, that republicans do have some substantive goals that they've laid out and that this committee does sort of distract the focus from those legislative targets, and that jim jordan has sort of

set himself up for a task where he's trying to do the impossible by trying to explain and prove a lot of these labyrinthy and conspiracy theories. some of the criticisms stem from the fact that jordan himself has been reticent to blow up the budget in a way that republicans on the hard right are calling for, akin to the january 6th house select committee had almost a $20 million budget. and, you know, it's unclear why jordan has been dragging his feet on that but you sort of have to wonder if that's because there is some sort of hesitation about just how far to take some of these conspiracy theories, and put them up as sort of representative of the house republican, you know, strategy in this congress for the majority. >> so jackie, in your last two answers you just outlined those in the republican party who

don't think jordan's going far enough, as well as those who have expressed concern he's going too far. what is the path you expect him to chart forward? people you've talked to around the committee, around jordan, they are staffing up, they've increased the number of people there as you've reported. what's he going to do, and what are some future targets of his? >> yeah, well we know that he is in the midst of trying to ramp up the staff even more right now. he told us in an interview that he has around 50 staffers. but those staffers are on the judiciary committee writ large, and not specifically assigned to being full-time on this subcommittee that republicans have really touted as sort of the marquee, all powerful committee for this house gop conference. those -- that hiring is happening, you know, this week. we could expect potentially some new announcements on different investigators in the coming days. we expect jordan to continue to focus on the twitter files and the federal trade commission's

investigation into twitter, but as democrats pointed out yesterday that republicans are largely trafficking in false narratives, that there is no there there, and that they have misframed a lot of evidence they've been pointing to in a misleading way. but jordan's success largely rests on whether or not he can identify a credible whistle-blower who can sort of fulfill this narrative that there is bias and politicization in intelligence agencies. whether or not his investigators are ultimately going to be able to find that sort of needle in a haystack is really the key question here, john. >> weaponization certainly has become a buzz word. former president trump used it in his truth social post last night talking about the manhattan da as well. "the washington post," jackie alemany, it's up right now. thanks. senator minority leader mitch mcconnell still is in the hospital this morning being

treated for a concussion he sustained after falling at an event wednesday night. the 81-year-old will remain in the hospital for a few days of observation. president biden tweeted well wishes, saying jill and i are wishing senator mcconnell a speedy rekov re. we look forward to seeing him back on the senate floor. we are hearing he will be back next week, we send our best to leader mcconnell as well. president biden lays out a $6.8 trillion budget plan, setting up a fight with republicans. steve rattner is breaking it all down for us with his charts. you're watching "morning joe," we'll be right back. when covid hit, we had some challenges like a lot of businesses did. i heard about the payroll tax refund, it allowed us to keep the amount of people that we needed and the people that have been here taking care of us. see if your business may qualify. go to getrefunds.com.

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comcast business. powering possibilities. ♪♪ president biden yesterday laid out a budget proposal of nearly $7 trillion, including a plan to increase taxes on corporations in the wealthy, while increasing spending on the military, and on programs for the poor in the middle class. but in a divided congress it is highly unlikely to pass as is.

nbc news chief white house correspondent kristen welker has details. >> reporter: in battleground pennsylvania president biden unveiling his sweeping budget proposal, calling for major tax hikes on the wealthy and increased spending. >> my budget's going to give working people a fighting chance, it's going to create good-paying jobs. >> reporter: still with divided government that plan is dead on arrival, with republicans staunchly opposed to any new tax increases. but mr. biden's proposal likely a blueprint for his battle plan against republicans in his expected 2024 reelection bid. >> maga republicans all voted to get rid of the affordable care act, they voted to get rid of it over 50 times since barack passed it. >> reporter: the plan calls for protecting social security and shoring up medicare by raising taxes on the wealthiest americans, including increasing penalties on oil and gas companies, imposing a

billionaire tax of 25%, and hiking the corporate tax rate from 21 to 28%. and it includes record spending on the military, and increasing funding for social programs like early childhood education and child care. but republicans blasting it as a reckless tax and spend plan. >> what does this budget do? raise more taxes, spends more money, creates probably the biggest government we've ever seen in the history of the united states. >> reporter: the president's plan also an attempt to revive his standing in our latest nbc news poll just 36% say they approve of his handling of the economy and 32% say they are enthusiastic with him running for office again. >> morning joe economic analyst steve rattner joining us with charts to break it down. good to see you. start with your first chart, a contrast between what the president has put out here in

this nearly $7 trillion budget. as i said a minute ago the house republicans don't have their budget yet but they're working on something. but we get an idea where they're headed here. >> exactly, willie. there was a republican study committee budget that came out a few weeks ago which represented at least one vision that actually had a majority of republican house members on it. one vision of what they see for their budget. but as kristen welker alluded to, this budget is as much a statement of these widely, widely diversioned views of the role of government, as it is anything else. and it is dead on arrival, but it's going to become part of the debt ceiling debate as well as the 2024 campaign. what you can see on the outlay side when comparing these two budgets, the biden's and the republican study committee, biden would hold outlays relatively constant, around 25% of gdp, at even with his new programs, economic growth should hold around that level. by contrast you see the red line on the left, how sharply it drops. those are all the cuts the

republicans plan in their programs. i'll go through those in a minute. what you see across the middle is the historical average of what the government spends -- has spent over the last 50 years as a share of gdp. the different visions so vastly, the democratic vision on top, hold government at 25%, the republican vision, we want to cut it way below anything we've seen before. on the revenue side the differences are somewhat smaller, but the same idea. biden has a bunch of new taxes, as kristen went through, but with economic growth that would still hold revenues at roughly the same share of gdp as it is now. the republicans would not impose any new taxes, so it would go down, and again you can see the historical level there with taxes being modestly above the 50-year average. >> steve, your second chart, specifically looking at proposed cuts from the republican study committee, some of these, kevin mccarthy the speaker already has said he doesn't agree with, like

some of the cuts to medicare and medicaid. social security. but, boy, a big hatchet taken to mandatory spending like food stamps, farm subsidies, spending on veterans, 67%. that's just the beginning. >> that's right, willie, and you actually pretty much did my chart for me, which is helpful, actually. >> i learned from the master. >> thank you very much after a long time of doing this. so yeah, as you said, this is not -- kevin mccarthy has already rejected the first two things in the upper left which are social security and medicare. the republican committee has raised the retirement age a bit, bigger cuts in medicare. the extent that kevin mccarthy doesn't want to do this, if you want to balance the budget, what the republicans claim they want to do, then you have to have bigger cuts in everything else. you can see already we're talking of major cuts in other social welfare programs, medicaid in the upper right, lower left you have things like

food stamps, other kinds of social wealth in our programs of that sort, and then the middle circle on the bottom is all of the other discretionary programs, everything from national parks to the federal drug administration, to all the other services that government provides to us, and then as you noted in the lower right, where there's -- where it goes the other way is republicans actually want to increase defense spending. all of these numbers are relative to what biden proposed. so biden did have a small defense increase, republicans want a much bigger one. >> so as we look at your third chart it makes a point, steve, one that we've been making for a long time here, which is that suddenly many republicans in the house, and we just heard it from kevin mccarthy in that clip in kristen's piece, have found their debt and deficit hawkishness again, which sort of contrasts with where they were during the trump years. >> yeah, willie, it's kind of reminiscent of the movie casa blanc ca, they said there's gambling going on here. so you can see that on the left,

these are only the programs proposed by each of these two presidents, trump and biden, and what the ten-year impact would be on the debt. in the case of trump, his big tax cut, his military spending and so forth, would add about $4.9 trillion to the debt over its ten-year life. in contrast the programs that biden has put forward so far would put far less, only about $2.5 trillion on the debt over those ten years. and if biden's plan were to be adopted, which as we've discussed it won't be, but just to say what biden is prepared to do if it were up to him it would actually reduce the debt by $500 billion compared to what it would have been. this is the $3 trillion deficit cut in effect that biden has been talking about in philadelphia yesterday and elsewhere. >> steve rattner with his famous charts, explaining it so well as always, steve, thanks so much, great to see you. coming up, mike allen joins us with the latest reporting from axios on the republican

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♪♪ one of the potential candidates who may be seeking president biden's job, florida governor ron desantis is headed to iowa today ahead of that much-speculated upon run for president. desantis will hold two events with the governor of iowa, one in davenport, one in des moines, former pickup also headed to iowa, his first visit since declaring candidacy. heading there monday, just missing the governor. the two are first and second in early primary polls, though the former president has a wide lead over desantis at this point. joining us now the co-founder of axios, mike allen, mike, it's great to see you on a friday morning. so you've got some new reporting there about democrats advertising against desantis. even though he hasn't even launched his bid yet.

what more can you tell us? >> willie, that's right, but first things first, happy friday. >> there it is, yeah, happy friday, mike. >> and on friday we have new reporting that today democrats are going to launch ads that along with president trump and speaker -- former president trump speaker mccarthy targets desantis. he's not even officially running in the republican primary. let alone running against joe biden. but these battleground ads from american bridge pac going up today in -- sound familiar? wisconsin, michigan, north carolina, pennsylvania. and they're trying to target all of those as maga republicans. we're really seeing the likely desantis campaign coming to focus this week. so look at what's going on. you have his book tour, which is doubling as a tour of early states.

you mentioned that he was headed to iowa and nevada, maggie haberman reports he's going to be in new hampshire soon. they're talking about south carolina after that. so that's quite a quartet. his book by the way debuted this week, number one on the "new york times" best seller list. and this morning politico's jonathan martin points out that republicans also are targeting him, that they're not just going after trump, but other republicans who are hopefuls for '24 are focusing on desantis. so we're seeing in a very real way what there have been just sort of hints of and speculation about before, and that is that governor desantis, the clear alternative to trump, both parties already acting on that, putting their money behind it, and willie, the bottom line for desantis is he has a background, backdrop to this, of a

legislative session where he's got republican super majorities in both chambers. what does that mean? as a republican governor he's going to get just about everything on his agenda. he's teed up a very conservative agenda, including immigration, and he's going to get all of it. >> mike, does all this anti-desantis activity potentially have the effect of raising his profile, and in fact making him more formidable as a potential candidate? >> yeah, sure. if you're desantis you love being talked about in this way. nobody's saying anything new about him that's going to do damage. and so he's able to -- the book tour lets him engage and be in the political dialogue. this legislative session also lets him out there talking on the issues that he wants to. and he can hold off on

announcing. trump is out there, not going away, and so he's able to just talk about these issues. now what democrats tell us is that the reason that they are already invoking him in ads is that they think his culture war agenda does not play well with women voters who are so important to them and are really going to determine likely to be one of the determining if not the determinant bloc. so that's why we're seeing the desantis face in democratic ads already. >> coming up. we will play for you part of joe and mika's exclusive sitdown with ukraine's first lady. and former secretary of state hillary clinton, that's coming up next on "morning joe." ♪3, 4♪ ♪

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mika sat down with ukraine's first lady olena zelenska along with former secretary of state

hillary clinton. here's part of that exclusive conversation. >> madam zelenska, if you could please tell us what the situation in your country ukraine for women and families, especially with so many displaced. >> translator: the situation is really difficult. we have more than 7 million women and children primarily who have been displaced abroad. we do not call them refugees. we call them temporarily displaced persons because they really want to come back. more than 6 million ukrainians have been displaced inside ukraine, again mostly women and children. so you can imagine the situation when a woman loses her normal routine, her normal work, and has to move quickly to a different place. doesn't matter if it's a different country or a different region, it's still a change, a massive change in her life.

and sometimes she fears it's forever. so the situation is very difficult. >> and many of these families want to come home? >> translator: the majority. >> there's a debate in america and across the world about what we should be doing to help ukraine, what ukraine needs now more than ever. what would you tell the people in the united states? what are you greatest needs? >> translator: first of all i would like to thank you very much for the help we have already received. it's been right to give this help. somebody, perhaps, thinks that it's out of place for a president's wife to ask for weapons. but i will ask for it because it's our salvation. it's a because it's our salvation. it's the salvation of people who are shelled by missiles and iranian drones. it's salvation for our personnel in the front line. they are defending their

country. of course, we must continue with this help, because any delay right now would be very dangerous. the second aspect of what we need is to hear us, tell our stories to everyone who will hear them. we need to hear voices for change. we need the voices of opinion leaders, because still some people in the world believe that it's not so simple, it's not so black and white and you could have another opinion about the tragedy that is happening in ukraine. this is a war of invasion and that's it. >> madam secretary, you know better than anybody alive partisanship in the united states and what it's cost our country. the ukrainian war has been one thing that's brought democrats and republicans together for the most part. are you hopeful that will continue despite the fact some

house republicans are being critical of the biden administration and even republicans that are supporting the war effort? >> well, i am hopeful that it continues, joe. i think, as we just heard, this is a war of aggression and invasion. the behavior of the invaders has been barbaric. it really is a war for not just the freedom of the ukrainian people, although that is first and foremost, it is a war for our values, for what we believe should be the birthright of every person in ukraine, in europe, in the united states, around the world. so i want to underscore that as we support the courage and the extraordinary commitment of the ukrainian people, their government, their army, their citizens, we're not doing it just because it's the right thing to do, although it is.

we're doing it because we have to draw this line and make it very clear that in 2023 this kind of aggression cannot stand. >> isn't it remarkable over the past five or six years in the united states we've had an opportunity to understand just what democracy and freedom means at home and now we look to what's happening in ukraine and all these things we talk about growing up, that we learned, suddenly the ukrainians are fighting for what we've always said we were supposed to stand for. how inspiring is that to you? >> it's so inspiring to me. i hope it is inspiring to every american, particularly those in positions to make decisions, because we have to continue and i would even argue increase the military support that we give the ukrainians sooner. >> does that include f-16s? >> well, it includes air cover,

long range missiles, much more defensive systems and not just from us, but from our nato allies and others. but they are on the front lines of freedom and we need to support that. we have to provide the humanitarian assistance that is so desperately needed for the ukrainian people, both in the country and, as the first lady says, those who were displaced temporarily outside the country. >> madam, can you talk about the challenges your people are facing and tell the world what they need to know. >> i think the war is an everyday challenge and everyone in ukraine is risking their life even just by being inside the country. just now, as we speak, the whole of ukraine is troubled by the video of the russian occupiers

killing a ukrainian soldier for just saying glory to ukraine. every time i speak in the international arena, i finish my speech by saying i also would have been a object of their hatred. some horrible cases of behavior of occupiers toward the local population, the local civilians, a massive amount of rapes not only of the women, there are also cases of men and boys. the general prosecution service is now investigating 171 cases of rape by different means. they are extremely inventive in how they think up these horrible tortures, but there's 171 cases of the people who were able and found it within themselves to

talk about it. the majority of the people are silent because they're scared of the invaders coming back, they're afraid of judgment. they're just scared. these things happen all the time and these things are terrible. every time we liberate another territory, sometimes we rejoice and then we start worrying about what we're going to find there. torture chambers, mass graves, et cetera. this war is being waged without convention rules of war. it's medieval. >> you will see the full interview monday on "morning joe." coming up, how the markets are reacting to president biden's budget proposal.

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a little bit gloomy in los angeles as you wake up at 6:00 in the morning out west, 9:00 here on the east coast as we begin the fourth hour of "morning joe." let's get right to this morning's breaking economic news. the latest jobs report shows employers added 311,000 jobs in february, higher than economists had anticipated. the unemployment rate did rise to 3.6%. let's go to dom chew. what do you see in these new numbers? >> willie, i guess the best way to characterize this is there was something positive in it for just about everyone out there. that's probably why you're seeing modest moves in a

positive direction for the markets now. a goldilocks jobs report. it continues to be relatively strong and job growth is still there. at the same time you mentioned the unemployment rate ticked slight higher because more people are working, more people are joining the labor force. average hourly earnings still grew, but by .2% on a month-over-month basis. both of those measures are growing but came in cooler than forecast. there continues to be job creation with less upward pressure on wages. why is a slower pace of wages

positive, you ask? because it means less inflationary pressure on goods and services, which means that maybe the fed would not have to be so aggressive in raising interest rates to further cool the economy, tame inflation. again, we're not seeing massive market volatility, hence the goldilocks. >> you touched on something we've been talking about as we were looking ahead to this jobs report, which is, a good jobs number may also mean that jerome powell who's been up on capitol hill this week for a couple of days testifying may be inclined to tick up interest rates once again. do we expect that now? >> the markets right now are

pricing in a little incremental less likelihood of being aggressive on interest rates. jerome powell has made it abundantly clear that the fight against inflation in america is far from over and they need to see more signs in this kind of economic data that shows things are cooling off. i'm not sure if this particular jobs report is enough to change the calculus of what the fed is seeking to do. with that in mind, though, we have not just this number today. remember, we get consumer inflation data out next week as well, all ahead of two weeks when the fed meets to talk about rates again. the issue right now, though, willie, the fed always has what they call a blackout period. it means none of those policy makers talk or make comments to the media in the days leading up

to a fed interest rate decision. we are entering this period. there's going to be a lot more jockeying for position by investors and traders seeing this economic datacoming out but not hearing from the fed. >> it's katty kay here. last week the head of the european central bank called inflation a monster that had to be tamed. tipping the u.s. economy into recession may be the price that has to be paid to bring that monster under control, perhaps on both sides of the atlantic. is there any one piece of data that might change that calculation, or is there a longer term calculation that the only way inflation is going to be brought under control is if we really damp down the economy

and raise those rates in the long-term. >> this is a complicated one only because of the different dynamic that is the european central bank has to deal with not in terms of inflation, but because of mandate. here in the united states, the fed has two mandates. it is to maintain price stability, which is the only mandate the european central bank does, at the same time the fed has to sustain maximum sustained employment. those things can be at odds. the issue is whether or not you have to tip an economy into a recession. there seems to be a school of thought that sees a scenario of a so-called soft landing where you are somehow able to tame inflation without having to cost a lot of jobs. that's a very fine line the fed has to walk right now. on the european central bank,

you mentioned the monster comment. it is because inflation on the whole affects millions more people on the lower to middle income part of the spectrum. so from a populist perspective, inflation hurts more when it affects those type of people than those on the upper end of the wage scale, which is why the european central bank are so focused on it. on that side of the atlantic, we know in the last 100 or 200 years there have been some real bad war like conflicts that have sparked out because of inflation. so the european central bank has a very high emphasis on the jobs side. >> it's been interesting to hear from president biden on these so-called jobs fridays to tout these good numbers. his schedule is open this morning, so i certainly wouldn't be surprised if he finds his way to a microphone at some point. it is a mixed bag, because we

heard the president talk about the low employment rate, talk about the economy rolling, talk about these jobs his administration has created, inflation remains a real problem and they know that. we start to think about that next election as the republican field is already ramping up, this is an area they know they're vulnerable. if americans are paying more for the basics every day, that could be a political price for the party in power. >> inflation certainly has been stubborn. the top line jobs number, 311,000 new jobs added in the month of february, unemployment at 3.6%. dom, one other story grabbed our attention, which is gm offering buyouts to the majority of its salaried employees, meaning the white collar employees at general motors.

what's going on here? >> this is an interesting one, because what it shows you is that job cuts are starting to show up in industries that are not tech, media and telecom. for the last weeks and months, we've been bringing you headlines about tech companies cutting jobs. in this case, when it comes to a company like gm, offering buyouts for the majority of its white collar employees may not be treated as bad as outright layoffs but it is an effort to trim costs. the big issue is how many employees will take the voluntary buyouts. in many cases when companies do not get enough to take these voluntary severance packages, job cuts could follow. it was just last week that general motors announced a cut of 500 salaried employees

globally. it's not going to move the american economy, but it's still another tea leaf, so to speak in what this economy faces. >> dom, thank you so much, we appreciate it. this morning we are following new reporting that an indictment could be imminent from former president trump. the performer president fully in the sights of the manhattan district attorney's office, which is signaling to attorneys for the former president that trump could face criminal charges. it is all related to that hush money payment to adult film actress stormy daniels. sources say prosecutors now have offered trump the opportunity to testify next week before the grand jury that's been hearing evidence in the potential case. many legal experts say it would be unusual for a d.a. to notify a potential defendant without ultimately seeking charges against him. two defense attorneys for trump

confirmed to nbc news trump has been told through his lawyers he can appear before the grand jury. the attorney says such an offer is standard and that trump was not issued a subpoena compelling his appearance. let's bring in chuck rosenberg. he is an nbc news legal analyst. it's good to see you. just following the pattern we've seen historically with calling a potential defendant in to testify before a grand jury, does it look to you like an indictment may be coming? >> let me answer it this way. i think so. but there are certain things we know with some degree of certainty. we know they're near the end of the investigation. you wouldn't indict a defendant, a target of a grand jury in the

middle of an investigation. we know that prosecutors are seriously contemplating charges. why do i say that? because if they weren't, it's really easy to shut this thing down. if you don't believe you have a case and you don't believe you're going to have a case regardless of how much longer you investigate, you just shut it down. the fact that they're inviting mr. trump to testify before the grand jury means they're near the end and they're seriously contemplating charges. >> is it worth having a potential defendant, in this case former president trump, if you're his attorney, go in and testify before the grand jury? or does that do more harm than good? >> good gracious, willie. it does more harm than good. there have been cases and they're extraordinarily rare, where a target of an investigation goes in front of a grand jury and convinces it that

he or she ought not be charged. but, no, typically a defendant, the subject doesn't do himself any good. because, number one, he would have to answer questions under oath. number two, he would be subject to perjury. number three, anything he said could be used against him. we know when mr. trump was deposed in a civil suit brought by the attorney general of the state of new york, he invoked his fifth amendment right not to answer questions hundreds of times. any defense attorney would certainly tell mr. trump there's nothing to be gained from testifying before a grand jury under oath. >> i want to put to you a question we've asked a few legal experts this morning. how do you see this playing out if indeed there is an indictment? this is a historic moment. no former president has ever been charged with a crime. if it were to happen, what kind of timeline do you think we'd be

operating under? we know trump, of course, would have tactics to delay. we also know, of course, this would be happening during a presidential campaign. what do you think this would look like? >> the time frame would be long, but criminal cases have their own pace, their own life cycle. civil cases often take years. there are lots of delaying tactics that a well-funded defendant can bring to bear in a civil case. but in criminal cases, you have something called the speedy trial act. white it can be waived at certain times, they do tend to move more expeditiously. by that, i don't mean quickly. i think there will be a lot of pretrial motions and possibility some interlocutory appeals the former president could raise. we're talking about liberty and the pursuit of justice, so the

timeline would be long, but not as long as we often see in civil cases. >> michael cohen, the former president's former fixer, spent more than a year in federal prison in this case. he cut the $130,000 check to stormy daniels and was reimbursed through intermediaries for donald trump. the republican formed house subcommittee investigating the so-called weaponization of the federal government held its second hearing yesterday on what has become known as the twitter files. republicans brought in a pair of journalists to testify who had been hand picked by twitter ceo elon musk to report on the alleged anti-conservative bias he claims the company operated under before he took over. it comes as house republican leaders continue to accuse tech companies of trying to sensor right wing voices. things became tense yesterday

between the top lawmakers on the panel, republican jim jordon and ranking democrat stacey plaskett. take a look. >> frankly, i think they're brave individuals for being willing to come after they've been named in a letter from the biden ftc! >> is this your question time now? >> no. i'm responding to your ridiculous statements you made in your opening statement. >> let's get on with it. >> the ranking member of the committee on the weaponization of government is asking for your sources. >> i never asked them for their sources. >> yes, you did. >> i did not ask for sources. i asked if they were talking to elon musk. >> i yield back to the gentle lady. >> you asked me who gave -- >> i asked you who gave it to you. i then asked you if you had

spoken with elon musk. i did not ask you who those sources were. >> joining us now, democratic congressman john garamendi of california, a member of that select weaponization committee. there was a long line of questioning on other areas as well. take us inside that room and then a step back about what you believe is the point of this committee. >> first of all, this is pure jim jordan. his history in congress is precisely what we saw in this. it's attack, it's a bunch of misstepped and, frankly, unprepared testimony. so the louder he gets, the worse he is. that's what you saw. the bottom line is he struck out. his committee struck out for the second time. the first hearing didn't work for him.

he's trying somehow to prove there's some conspiracy -- and he's deep into conspiracy theories -- that the biden administration was trying to censor the company. the company in 2022 undertook significant studies to try to figure out if their algorithm was biassed. it turns out it is indeed biassed. it promotes conservative thoughts. these are studies done by universities. millions of files were looked at. the result is, yeah, the company is biassed toward conservative thought. that needs to be addressed, i suppose by twitter. i don't know what musk is up to. the fact of the matter is there is a censorship issue in america and it is the republican governors who are censoring thought. they're censoring american history. they're banning books that talk about slavery, that talk about lgbtq and not allowing high

schools and others to even discuss those issues. >> so the term weaponization has kind of become a catch-all for jim jordon and some other house republicans. what else is this committee looking at? how long will this go on? >> this will go on -- for the history of jim jordon, take a look at the benghazi hearings. it went on for two years. in this case, the congress of the united states has a weapon to take on hillary clinton and now to take on the biden administration. he is using the federal government as a weapon to attempt to somehow harm the biden administration. now, there are plenty of things

that we need to do. we've got a new budget that's presented to the congress. the republicans are not dealing with that. part of that budget deals with the judiciary system. let's investigate that. let's have hearings about how the judiciary system, specifically the department of justice, was used by the trump administration for four years as a weapon to both attack and to defend donald trump to attack others and to defend donald trump. there's something legitimate to investigate. >> this is going to go on for some time. on a different topic, congressman, you're on the infrastructure committee. want to get your take on the norfolk southern ceo alan shaw testifying yesterday and apologizing to the residents of east palestine, ohio.

hours before that hearing, another norfolk southern train derailed, this time in calhoun county, alabama, about 30 cars derailed. there were no reports of injuries or of a hazardous leak. as a senior member of the transportation infrastructure committee, served on the rail subcommittee for eight years, and east palestine really is an issue of national concern. what did you make of yesterday's hearing? >> the ceo reminded me of a young kindergarten kid that has been reprimanded. i'm so sorry, but then continues to misbehave. norfolk southern and other rail lines have seriously misbehaved for a long, long time. we were carrying legislation nearly a decade ago trying to force the rail companies to do the proper thing in the transportation of petroleum products. they didn't. so what we need to do here is to

pass some very serious legislation. when norfolk southern has a profit of $4.8 billion in 2022 and then spends $4.7 billion buying back stock, they obviously didn't spend the money on their tracks or the rail cars to make sure they're safe. they didn't spend the money on improving safety all up and down the entire line. so we need to force the rail companies to spend the money where it creates safety. electronic brakes, norfolk southern started that, decided that they didn't want to spend the money on electronic brakes, which can stop a train in perhaps half the distance. no. they'd rather spend the money on buying back stocks bolstering their stock price so the ceo could have even more money. >> the ceo didn't commit to any specific changes at this point. we'll see if he does take that

step. john garamendi of california, thanks for your time. coming up next, president biden releases a budget proposal that doubles as a campaign pitch. we'll go live to the white house for the latest reporting on that plan. plus, elon musk appears to be building his own town in texas. we'll tell you exactly where, what it's going to look like, next on "morning joe." , what it's going to look like, next on "morning joe." lp make trading feel effortless and its customizable scans with social sentiment help you find and unlock opportunities in the market with powerful, easy-to-use tools power e*trade makes complex trading easier react to fast-moving markets with dynamic charting and a futures ladder that lets you place, flatten, or reverse orders so you won't miss an opportunity i have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now, there's skyrizi. ♪♪ with skyrizi, most people who achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months... had lasting clearance through 1 year.

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no billionaire should be paying a lower tax than somebody working as schoolteacher or firefighter or any of you in this room. so my plan is to make sure corporations begin to pay their fair share. >> president biden pitching a budget proposal of nearly $7 trillion, including a plan to increase taxes on corporations and the wealthy while increasing spending on the military and programs for the poor and middle

class. let's bring in white house correspondent for politico eugene daniels. he also is a "morning joe" senior contributor. great to see you. take us inside this budget proposal, which we've been saying all morning is going nowhere in the republican-controlled house of representatives, but it's a statement of priorities. >> reporter: people can think about this budget proposal as president biden's long soft launch of his campaign that's been going on since the beginning of this year. we saw him at the state of the union. we've seen him go to american states and talk about his plans. this budget proposal is about this president and the white house saying here are the things that if you elect us, we're going to continue to fight for. white house officials have basically explained it in four main categories, reducing the deficit, lowering costs for families, protecting and strengthening medicare and

social security and investing in america. you have taxing the wealthy to save and shore up medicare and social security, the tax credit is back, something that continues to be very popular. then there's the moderate streak. every single person you talk to at this white house will talk about how important reducing the deficit is to this president, trying to show he is not the leader of a party that wants to spend everyone's money without being responsible. thin they look at things that are working in polls for americans that americans like and they put these things in this budget. if you're a democratic stram strategist, it's what you would tell president biden to do. republicans said they're going to release a balance the budget

but they have not. i've talked to a bunch of white house sources over the last couple of days. everything they bring up is, who are republicans fighting for versus who is president biden fighting for? you heard what he was saying in front of union folks talking about asking the wealthy to pay their fair share, asking corporations to pay more taxes and stop having loopholes so teachers and union workers can have a leg up. that sounds like a reelection strategy and a pitch to me. i think that is what this white house is trying to make clear. as you said, they know it's not going anywhere. >> that republican study committee, we were talking to steve ratner about it a little while ago, it does signal massive cuts to social programs and the like. senior contributor eugene daniels from the white house this morning, thank you so much.

joining us is a professor of history at tulane university walter isaacson. it's great to see you. want to get you in on this conversation about president biden, if this is in fact some kind of a soft launch of his 2024 campaign. he's widely expected to announce he's going to run again. and on the other hand, looking at iowa this weekend, where ron desantis will be today, where nikki haley has been all week, where donald trump will be on monday, sort of a soft launch for some of those candidates as well. how do you see this next year and a half playing out? >> i think one of the interesting things we see happening is this notion of populism in both parties. one thing about biden's budget was attack on billionaires, on the corporations, trying to fight for the average person. i think populism in our american

history has been the strand that has in some ways been in both parties. however, in the past 20 or 30 years the democratic party actually got away from being populist fighters for the average person and seemed to become the party of the elite, wall street, big companies. oddly enough, republicans, especially donald trump, ron desantis and others have taken up the mantle of resentment populism. what joe biden is trying to do is say i'm going to fight for the average guy. it's going to be a happy warrior populism of protecting social security, medicare and really trying to recapture the flag of the average guy populism for the democratic party. >> that would certainly be different from donald trump, who seems to be running on largely a campaign of grievance about the

fbi, 2020, the department of justice, a number of things. can we talk about age? not mine, not yours, but joe biden's if. he would be historically the oldest president if he was reelected. there are a slew of polls suggesting that democratic voters, even those who like joe biden have concerns with that. how much of a problem do you think it is in a historical cob text to have a president that old? >> i think there's going to be a hunger in this country and should be for moving to a new generation. there's a great bench in the democratic party of wonderful people, i think, and the republican party of younger people. i'm somewhat surprised, having grown up as part of a generation that came of age when john kennedy made that change, that there hasn't been a moment in

american politics. biden is particularly strong. he's done well. so it may be another four years before we get to that moment. >> the "wall street journal" is reporting that elon musk is planning to build his own town just outside of austin, texas. musk has reportedly purchased thousands of acres of land and has described the potential area as a utopia-like town. it's reported musk hopes his employees could live in the town with new homes at below market rents. the town would be adjacent to the spacex facility. you are literally writing a book on elon musk. i want to get your broader review as to where things are right now in what is one of the most closely watched men in the world. we played clips from this hearing in the capitol on the

weaponization of government. the twitter filed supplied by elon musk were part of that too. >> he's a great story. fortunate to be the most interesting person around. getting first to your question about housing in the austin area, look, you look at san francisco and the huge problems they have. that's where the bay area is where a lot of tesla and the boring company and musk's companies were. he's moved center of gravity to austin, texas. he and his brother and many other people said, hey, we need more housing. that's absolutely true. it's something in this country that we need to be doing, is breaking down some of the barriers to creating housing, especially workforce housing. i think what he would like to do too is show how you could be greatly energy efficient. he now has solar roof tiles that are connected to storage

batteries, get people off the grid. you've got star link satellite. if he does a development where people can work that would both alleviate his housing project but also show what an energy efficient community of the future would be. >> tell us what we can expect today and tomorrow. i understand bill gates is there. what else do you have going on in new orleans? >> bill gates was particularly interesting last night, because he talked about artificial intelligence, chat gpt and how it's going to affect each industry. he was telling the students that if you want to go into a field, figure out whether you're in architecture or medicine or even art or literature, how you're going to connect artificial intelligence with the field. eric holder was on last night

too and was very serious about the importance of dealing with voting rights, that we're not understanding how bad some of these laws are in making it hard for students to vote, blacks to vote and others. there's a wide range of people. some of your fan club is there, michael loose. i'm interviewing brian green because i have a question i want to know, which is how did the universe start, why is there a universe, what happened? we have brought in some military experts, john john allen, because in this country we don't get a good diversity of opinions sometimes. i think the cato institute has been helping us too to get a more libertarian view so that students at tulane and the new orleans community can in a civil

way listen to all sides of discussions. >> i love a panel discussion on the origins of the universe. always thinking big with another great line-up at the new orleans book festival at tulane university. >> and next year willie geist is going to be the headliner. >> uh-oh. i better write a book real quick. that's a lot of pressure. walter isaacson, thanks. coming up, an update on southern california, where another winter storm is bringing brain and snow to areas that really do not need it right now. plus, we'll have a preview of sunday's academy awards where this film "everything everywhere all at once" is a favorite to win a slew of awards. n a slew os

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it■s up from about 600 at the beginning of my term. but no billionaire should be paying a lower tax rate than a schoolteacher or a firefighter. i mean it! think about it. . there's a thousand billionaires in america, up from about 600 in the beginning of the term. but no billionaire should be paying a lower tax rate than a schoolteacher or firefighter. i mean it. think about it. schoolteacher orr i mean it. think about it booking.com, booking. yeah. this weekend, it once again is time to spring our clocks forward for daylight saving time. many hope after years of debate congress finally will end that biannual clock change. >> reporter: it's that time of

year again. at 2:00 a.m. sunday, clocks spring forward one hour. >> i need a solid week to adjust. >> reporter: the twice a year time-traveling tradition has plenty of people sounding off, from the big screen to perhaps more fittingly on tiktok. >> don't get me wrong, i'm excited to have the sun setting later in the day again, but why can't it just be like that all year round? >> reporter: every year we spring forward to daylight saving time. for many, shifting schedules can take a toll on their body clocks. research shows a spike in car crashes, heart attacks, strokes and workplace injuries in the days around the time shift. >> we're talking about one hour of time, but it actually can have serious consequences. it really can. we're creatures of habit.

our bodies are meant to do certain things at certain times. >> reporter: the majority of americans say do away with the time changes. more people would prefer locking the clock on daylight saving time. >> kind of confusing having half the world doing it and half the world not doing that. >> i'd be happy to see it go away. just makes things a little bit easier if it went away. >> reporter: congress is considering making that happen, reintroducing the bipartisan sunshine protection act. some critics point out we've tried daylight saving time before, which after a string of morning traffic accidents in the '70s, lasted less than a year. >> even with the problems some people have with the time change, i still think the current system is the best alternative. >> reporter: now we'll have to wait and see if the sun will set on the time changing tradition.

>> i can confirm now that springing forward is the one where we lose an hour of sleep. let's go to meteorologist angie lassman. >> it's a gloomy start for places like san francisco. all of this moisture from atmospheric river event for days now. wind alerts at 20 million, flood alerts at 16 million, that's focused on the west coast. we have another winter storm that has left many waking up to snow in places like detroit, picking up 11 inches of snow. here's how it plays out as we go through the next day or so. we're going to see it move into parts of the northeast, picking up a couple of inches in the higher elevations of

pennsylvania and new york. we have chilly rain for parts of the mitt atlantic. we'll have to deal with the rain and the snow stretched across much of the eastern half of the country. when we talk about what we're dealing with on the west coast, that is a prolonged event. we have flood alerts up for 16 million people, including many large cities. they are likely going to have flash flooding in places they often do not see flooding. >> it's been a long rough winter out west. thanks so much, angie. appreciate it. just ahead, we are previewing holiday's biggest night, taking a look at the favorites to win the oscars this sunday. favorites to win the oscars this sunday liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. with the money we saved, we tried electric unicycles. i think i've got it!

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we are just two days away now from the 95th academy awards at the dolby theatre in los angeles, and joining us now with a preview, nbc news correspondent joe fryer. hey, joe. >> hey, there, willie. so of course last year was pretty much completely

overshadowed by the infamous slap heard around the world. typically this year, will smith who won best actor last year would be back it present the lead actress trophy. that won't happen. he has been banned from the oscars for ten years. we won't see him, but we will see some pretty competitive categories, though there is a clear front runner. on sunday the movie most likely to win almost everything everywhere all at once is "everything everywhere all at once." the sci-fi adventure with heart leads all movies with 11 nominations. it's the favorite for best picture, the front runner for supporting actor, and the film's lead, michelle yoeh could become the first asian woman to win best actress though she faces tough competition from cate

blanchett. if she wins it will be her third oscar. another star jamie lee curtis could capture best supporting actress, that's another tight race, along with angela basset up for "black panther" wakanda forever. she would be the first actor to win for a marvel movie. the best actor crown is up for grabs with the king, "elvis" star austin butler hoping the academy won't be cruel picking him over the banshee's colin farrell and the whale's brendan fraser. last year's real life drama will hover over the festivities, will smith slapping chris rock, a moment that's already providing material for host jimmy kimmel. >> i can't get slapped. i cry a lot. >> a few singers will take the stage, including best original song nominee rihanna, exactly a month after her monumental super bowl halftime show.

can never have enough rihanna. one more note about this slap. this year the academy has created a crisis team to quickly respond to any unpredictable events that happen. part of the controversy last year wasn't just that the slap happened but the fact that will smith was allowed to stay at the ceremony for the rest of the night. >> crisis response team in case there's a physical assault this year on the stage. let's hope not. nbc's joe fryer setting the table for us. thanks so much. let's bring in founding partner at the media venture puck, he's a former editor at the hollywood reporter. big night. let's start right at the top with best picture. everybody talking about "everything everywhere all at once." what are some potential upset picks? >> right. it is the favorite. i haven't seen any of the prognosticators not pick it. if there is a spoiler here, there are two possibilities. one is that "all quiet on the western front," which is a

german war film that netflix distributed, that one has picked up momentum since it won best picture at the bafta awards in london. if there is a spoiler -- you know, the academy has let in a lot of international members over the past five years, is and we saw that in 2020 when "parasite" won best picture. that could be a spoiler. and then there's "top gun: maverick," which is sort of the populist vote. there are people in the academy that believe "top gun" should be honored with best picture just because of what it did for the movie business in getting people to go back to theaters after two and a half years in the pandemic, this was the first movie that many people saw in the theater after not going for many years. there is a populous upswell for that movie as well. i don't think either of them really has the momentum to get to that, you know, the whole

point of the preferential ballot with the oscars is that people rank their choices one to ten, and it's designed to get a consensus in the academy. if a movie doesn't get all ones, they could get twos and threes it can rise to the top. it's got nominations in all the categories. 11 nominations. i don't think it will be beat. >> what a statement that would be, though, it would be amazing if "top gun" won, but that's a long shot. let's move to best actor, brendan fraser, austin butler seem to be the two favorites, but don't forget colin farrell in banshees of inisherin. >> probably austin butler here. there is a grand tradition in the academy in honoring actors who play musicians who have meltdowns, and we saw it with robbie mallic winning for playing freddie mercury, renee

zellweger for playing judy garland. this is a movie a lot of older academy members love. a lot of viewers have seen it as well. this is a guy, austin butler who really has spent the past six months introducing himself to academy members via events, and round tables and q & a's he is the discovery of the season, i think, and i think people are going to vote for him. i'm going to go with austin butler. >> two great performances and radically different performances for fraser and butler. let's go to best actress. michelle yeoh has been cleaning up this award season. anna de armas was amazing in blond, how do you see this one

going? >> it could go either way between cate blanchett and michelle yeoh. this is an actress who's been working for decades, it's about time. it's her turn. this is a career achievement for an actress who has stood the test of time and is in a movie that, again, most of the voters have seen. this was the problem a couple of years ago when glenn close was up against olivia colman. glenn close was in a movie called "the wife," not that many people had seen that movie. and olivia colman won because more people had seen that movie. if i had to pick, i would probably pick cate blanchett here because "par" is a film that speaks to many academy members. it is about sort of the elitism of art and the consequences of being extraordinary, and i think that this movie speaks to many academy members, and they're

probably not going to vote for it for best picture. here they have a chance to honor cate blanchett with her third oscar, and i think that could be the upset of the night, not really an upset, a lot of people think she will win, but if i had to vote, that would be my pick. >> and michelle yeoh, of course, would make history as the first asian woman ever to win one of these major trotrophies. should be a fun night, can't wait for sunday, thanks so much for breaking it down for us. we appreciate it. before we round out the week here, you are really in depth and read in on all the major movies that have been out this year. what are you looking for on sunday night? >> okay. so i love the fablemans. i thought michelle williams was great in it. i suspect it's not going to win, but that would be my tip. >> i do the google of the best picture nominees. i think it's going to be "everything everywhere all at once" last year's oscars, we know whether smith won't be

there. they should do a chris rock cameo. he should be on stage again. people will be talking about that. >> i love that idea. it will be fun to see what jimmy kimmel has to say out of the gate about the whole thing. that does it for us today this and this week. for now lindsey reiser picks up the coverage in 90 seconds. the s . the peanut butter box is here. ralph, that's the chewy pharmacy box with our flea and tick meds. it's not peanut butter. i know, i know. but every time the box comes, we get the peanut butter. yes, because mom takes the meds out of the box and puts them in the peanut butter. sounds like we're getting peanut butter. yes, but that is the chewy pharmacy box. ♪ the peanut butter box is here. ♪ ♪ the peanut butter box is here ♪ alright, i'm out. pet prescriptions delivered to your door. chewy.

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