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hi to everyone. it is 4:00 in new york. happy friday. what began at a celebrity golf tournament in 2006, an affair between a porn star and a business mogul, now has the potential to throw the entire country into unchartered territory with donald trump reportedly on the verge of becoming the first ex-president to be criminally indicted. as we reported on this program yesterday, blockbuster reporting in the "new york times" reveals that the manhattan d.a. has invited donald trump to testify before a grand jury in the probe examining hush money payments to adult actress stormy daniels. the "new york times" notes that such offers almost always indicate an indictment is close. it would be unusual for the district attorney alvin bragg to

notify a potential department without ultimately seeking charges against him. as for whether donald trump will take bragg up on his offer, the "washington post" quotes a trump associate saying that everyone will advise him not to go in. here is terrorism's former fixer michael cohen who made the hush money payments to stormy daniels on why that might be the case. >> i have to applaud district attorney bragg for giving donald the opportunity to come in and tell his story. knowing donald as well as i do, understand that he doesn't tell the truth. it is one thing to turn around and lie on your untruth social, it is another thing to lie before a grand jury which i don't suspect that he will be coming. >> good guess. cohen made those comments though before meeting with the manhattan d.a. this morning. it was his 20th visit and meeting with the manhattan d.a.'s office. and it was ahead of an expected and anticipated appearance before the grand jury next week.

at least six people have already testified before that grand jury according to reporting in the "new york times." michael cohen's appearance could potentially cap off the presentation of evidence before the grand jury since his actions for which he served time in prison lie at the heart of the potential crimes at play. the "new york times" lays out how the federal probe into the hush money payments now form the basis of what manhattan d.a. alvin bragg is doing. quote, when pleading guilty, cohen pointed the finger at his boss. it was mr. trump he said who directed him to pay off ms. daniels. the contention that prosecutors later corroborated. prosecutors said in court pain papers that trump's company falsely accounted for the monthly payments as legal expenses and that company records cited a retainer agreement with mr. cohen. in new york falsifying business records can amount to a crime. albeit a misdemeanor. to elevate the crime to a felony

charge, mr. bragg's prosecutors must show that trump's intent to defraud included an intent to commit or conceal a second crime. in this case that send crime could be a violation of new york state election law. while hush money is not in-hair rently illegal, prosecutors could argue that the payout became an improper donate to trump's campaign under the theory that it benefited his candidacy. a years long case centered around hush money payments to stormy daniels coming to a head with the potential indictment of donald trump, and that is where we begin with some of our reporters and friends. suzanne craig is back, she has reported extensively on trump's finances and taxes since 2016. we turn to her often in news cycles like this one.

also tim miller is back, from the bullwark and here with us at the table for the hour, andrew weissmann, former justice department prosecutor, member of the problem robert mueller spec counsel. andrew, what do you think is happening behind closed doors? >> it is not that unusual for a d.a. just before they decide to bring charges to give the target an opportunity to testify. here i have to say michael cohen is right that there is no way in god's green earth that donald trump will testify. with latitia james, he took the

fifth. >> and you can't do that in front of a grand jury. >> but he could simply say i'm not coming. he is not being given a subpoena, he is being asked to voluntarily show up to present your side of the story. and that is something that you do as a matter of courtesy and due process and he is entitled to say absolutely not. so there is no reason for him to take a different position here than he did with latitia james. it is always possible, but i wouldn't hold my breath. and then the other piece is that you wouldn't ask donald trump to do that if you didn't have it in your head already that you were planning to bring charges. is this a this is a former president and you know that it will become public. and so we're constantly hearing things about it is imminent, things could happen soon.public. and so we're constantly hearing things about it is imminent, things could happen soon. >> note i did not use that word. >> that's right, because we're speculating that that is days and it seems like it will be months.

yes, i do think that they will give defense counsel and opportunity to be heard. you do that routinely. but i think once that happen, unless they hear something that they had not thought of, again i think that that is unlikely. is this all signs that we can expect the charges that you outlined in your introduction. >> can you weigh in on the legal questions as outlined by the "times" that there is the falsification of business records, but because campaign finance violations the way we've come to understand them in our political discourse are usually federal violations, talk about this second crime that may elevate it from a misdemeanor. >> so we're in this predicament because essentially bill barr said to the feds after michael cohen pled to this, he said stop, like don't go forward. so we're now in apgs where the feds did not bring sort of the second shoe to drop which is we prosecuted michael cohen, so

let's go after donald trump who is more culpable. >> but it wasn't cohen's money and he didn't have sex with the porn star. >> that's right, of course he wasn't doing this on his own. he was doing it for someone else. and as you said, it is not his money and his interests. he was doing it for his boss. so we're in this position where new york state is sort of picking up the slack. and they have this conundrum where they have a very clean clear misdemeanor case which is just a false business record. but that is a misdemeanor. and it is worth remembering that that is very clean. all of the sort of issues that i and lots of other lawyers have been sort of wrestling with deal with this -- the way in which it can become a felony. and that is that you have to be doing this in furtherance of some other crime. and people have speculated that the d.a. might look at federal crime, they may look at state crimes, some underlying other crime to make some a felony.

the one thing that seems clear is that whatever they have chosen is going to be litigated. and so step two of this, which people should get ready for, is they know that donald trump's a master at throwing sand in the gear, but this is one where there is not going to be a lot of precedent for what the state will do. i think that that will certainly being litigated by donald trump in this case. >> anything would be litigated by donald trump. that is how he has avoided what all of us else would have been charged and prosecuted for. >> and so by all accounts the chief judge for another week in d.c. has clearly said that isn't fly. because there is a lot of precedent for that.

there is not a lot of down side, but it could be quickly gotten rid of. here for example, one of the issues will be if the state crime is that you have to further another crime, can that be in furtherance of a federal crime or is does a state law have to be in furtherance of a state crime? the law is not totally rear on that and that means that you will have briefing on both sides, there isn't precedent that court can look to and so that can slow things down because when you are in court, you really look to recent accident. what have other judges done, is there clear room for disagreement or is this something where someone is making the argument but it is very easy to dismiss it. so it will take a little while. >> and you work for a man in robert mueller who said if i could say crimes were not committed, i would. so clearly the public has been

hearing from highly regarded prosecutors for six years now that donald trump has committed crimes and nothing has happened. what are the stakes in your mind of showing that we do not live in a country with two standards of justice? >> i think that that is exactly the right question. a lot of people have been saying is this the crime that you should start with. and i don't think that that is the way that alvin bragg will be looking at it and i don't think that is what the rule of law requires. i think the way a prosecutor would look at it, not how does it compare to other crimes that donald trump may have committed, but rather is this a crime that is prosecuted. should we be leaving him aside. and i think one answer to that is michael cohen. michael cohen as you pointed out has done jail time in part for doing this and he is less culpable on this crime than the person he did it for. so the rule of law means that

you treat likes alike. and i think that we are very likely to see both in manhattan, georgia and the federal level is finally seeing that the sort of rule of law as to where somebody will face charges regardless of whether their prior employment was, whether you were president or not, you should be held to account. >> and you have been part of trying to hold donald trump accountable. the country went through two impeachments because republicans who really didn't disagree with the facts in either sin stance instance can't agree with the mechanism. you have mark pomerantz who looked at this casestance instance can't agree with the mechanism. you have mark pomerantz who looked at this case and said the failure to prosecute and if you are waved off of doing something because it is novel or difficult, that is inherently creating two standards of justice. how do you see this moment in

our country where there is a lot of anxiety about how trump's base will react if he is finally charged frankly with everything that we've learned about fox news, i don't think that they will either see it or know about it, but regardless, how do you -- what are you feeling sort of with your political ten catas about this moment? >> i think andrew broke it down well. but the legal decision to prosecute is like playing checkers. the politics is chess. and i don't want to play checkses with donald trump because i'm concerned that you go indict this by on a low level charge or one you can't prove and you will make him stronger. so i'm very concerned that if this is going to be the first legal case against them, that they nail him to the wall with it. now, it is the right thing to do. so it is not the prosecutor's job or the judge's job to parse through that, but it is the job for the rest of us to make sure that in holding him accountable, we don't in-ed a ver tently make him stronger. but the michael cohen point i think is persuasive.

he went to jail in my district. we have a lovely facility, plenty of room for the donald as well. we'll leave the light on. but all of us are enthusiastic to see some accountability here. but i do think in the fullness of time that we'll get the proper level of accountability on all the charges he is facing. but i do think that we have a very live problem which is putting this guy away politically to protect the country. now, ironically joe biden may prefer a slightly stronger donald trump in this primary process because i do think that he is the easier candidate to beat but more dangerous one for the country. >> and i agree, i think playing any sort of that 3d chess in politics is a fool's errands. you have no idea what will happen the next day. but let me press you on some of this. why didn't merrick garland pick up this case? again, michael cohen didn't have sex with stormy daniels and it wasn't his money yet he went to jail. donald trump paid the hush

money, donald trump benefited we can only presume from the act. why didn't the federal government that jailed cohen pick this up? >> it is a great frustration of us from the sideline, particularly those of us on the house floor when they were coming through the windows and doors that there has not been a moment more of direct accountability for all of these things. but i don't know the answer to that question. i know merrick garland is a good man, he is trying to do the right thing and he takes seriously his responsibility to prove a case particularly in a case with the former president because you are setting a very serious president. bad cases make -- what is that expression? hard cases make bad law. you don't want to set precedent nonetheless for every president in the future. so i do think that you have to get it right, but, man, i would like to see the feds particularly on classified documents case, on the insurrection matters around

january 6, you know, bring to the table some of the more serious charges than this one even if this one is the first to come out of the gate. >> and suzanne, back to what your colleagues have reported about what the crimes are. and again, this is -- we're not in front of a grand jury, we haven't seen the evidence that has been put in front of them, they will make the ultimate decision. but it does boil down to something that you are expert in, what is this black and white, what do the financial records say. and there is the issue of how they classified the payments as legal expenses which they were not. just talk about your thoughts as we understand the facts today. >> and it doesn't sound like that he would come in.

because it does sound like there are records that back this up. they have got the check for one. they have got other sort of i think documents around it, we don't know the full extent of that. but you've got to have something beyond michael cohen i think to get this and i think that that is what we were kind of -- i think that we've been building to that and it sounds like, you know, we don't know. i would imagine that they have some records that they feel confident about the case. >> and let me play this for you, this is trump's -- i don't even know what we call it. tap dancing around the money which we learned was the -- some of these checks were written in the oval office. and here he is sort of spinning around the facts of this as we've all come to understand them on air force one.

>> and one month later rudy giuliani bars of out the truth. >> having something to do with paying some stormy daniels woman $130,000 which will turn out to be perfectly legal. that money was not campaign money. sorry, a fact that you don't know. it is not campaign money. no campaign finance violation. funneled it through the law firm and the president repaid it. >> why i know that he did. >> oh, yeah. >> and listen to him. but here it is, my understanding of campaign finance laws is it

is the benefit to the candidate that makes it a violations not which pot it comes out of. not particularly a good fact pattern for trump there, is it? >> no, it is not. we don't know how much they have got in terms of documentation and do they have additional information. when you don't know, it is best to say that. but we did know some of the facts. what i was hearing there, donald trump in some ways he asked michael cohen that you could see some of the defense already coming out. he will say that i relied on legal advice when i did this, always something he says. he hires so many lawyers around him and then says that as if it protects him from, you know, from possible indictment. saying i had outside advisers

and they said to do it and somehow that is a shield when it is not necessarily a shield. and i think that that is one thing that we'll see. but you know, you have to -- a lot of this is just going to come out if there is an indictment in terms of the evidence that they have got and if they have additional evidence, just sort of what i'm waiting to see. and did they get more for example in allen weisselberg, has he given them additional information. we may not know until an indictment. but those are the things that i'm wondering about as you watch this train move forward. >> yeah, such a good point. the most i think that we know about this is from michael cohen's sentencing memo where donald trump, aka individual one, is the leading character. i mean, he is named almost as many times michael cohen is.

he is an unindicted company conspirator. and i use that as a cable host not a prosecutor. but he is littered through the document. we know from jeff furman's book that that was hotly litigated that he was actually in their more and what bill public was less for information about individual one. so a lot of what we know is conduct that wasn't investigated or prosecuted. but there is no separating donald trump from the hush money. >> no, and this is why this whole process has been so frustrating for those of us that are non-lawyers. this has been straightforward to five, six years. i feel like i haven't seen that interview in years and it warms my heart to rewatch that. >> 2018. yeah. >> a half decade we've known he's been guilty of this crime, that michael cohen went to jail for and that he was the one that is actually responsible for.

so i think that you can understand the frustration among folks to keep going round and round on this. but i think that this is extremely straightforward. for those of you who had to follow campaign finance rules, it is not a complex one. there might be a lot of complexities which i prefer to the experts about the misdemeanor and felonies, but whether or not you can pay hush money to shut someone up and not report it, you know that is against the rules. we've all been on campaigns. we know that. and the fact that it was donald trump that was responsible for this, you know, is about as plain as day. >> and no one is going anywhere. we have a lot more on this story when we come back. and more on what happens next. not just for trump but the country. an ex-president tied to an extremist threat in america when stirs up the rhetoric of political violence every time he opens his mouth.

what will an indictment if it comes mean for the future of political violence in our country? plus speaking of violence, breaking just this afternoon, the fbi has uncovered new threats deadly threats targeted democratic politicians like michigan's gretchen whitmer and those in the lgbtq community, where they are coming from, what is being done about it. and later republicans continuing to rewrite the events of january 6. the latest move to back those peaceful sight seers who just came to the capitol for a photo. all those stories and more when continues. n"deadline: white hou" continues. of life. if you have heart failure, entrust your heart to entresto, a medicine specifically made for heart failure. entresto is the #1 heart failure brand prescribed by cardiologists. it was proven superior at helping people stay alive and out of the hospital.

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as exhibit 5-a shows, i am providing a $35,000 check that president trump personally signed from his personal bank account on august 1 of 2017. when he was president of the united states pursuant to the coverup which was the basis of my guilty plea to reimburse me. >> before we dive into the legality of that, let's just sit here for a second. leader of these united states, sat in the oval office, and wrote a check to silence a porn star. not just any check, but just regular monthly installment. that happened.

that was michael cohen testifying in 2019 telling this sordid tale revealing and sharing a copy of the check signed by donald trump then the president of the united states of america to reimburse michael cohen for paying hush money to adult film actress stormy daniels. suzanne, andrew, craig, sean back with us. there is all what happen, what gets put into motion. i would argue that, yes, there is a risk of a more aitated but what are you worried about, that they will try to hang mike pence or storm the capitol or shoot up an fbi office or incite people to take hostage, speaker of the house nancy pelosi or hammer her husband on the head or inspire lunatics? it is already happening. that is unfortunately the country we're already living in. >> yeah. that is not my concern.

i think they were nuts before, they were be nuts in the future. i'm not worried about bringing the hammer down on trump or the trump followers. i am worried about winning the 2024 election and i think that we have to hold the ideas in our head at the same time. i do think that trump is their weakest no him knee. nominee. i think that there is room here to hold him accountablehim knee. nominee. i think that there is room here to hold him accountable and i don't know what it means to have an indictment comes down in the middle of the presidential race, but i hope at some point enough of the country has come back to its senses. and there is evidence for that in the last election that none of this is helping him in a general election certainly even if it might help him in a primary process. >> tim miller, you are sort of fresh out on the campaign trail with people who are interested in primary elections. what is your sense on this

question? >> i think that it is important that a little bit of humility in trying to analyze this, and this is why i think that the legal side issue is just do the right thing and indict him and let the chips fall. here is the thing. the key voter -- everyone should keep in mind the key voter. somebody that likes donald trump, voted for him twice, but is open to the possibility that it might be better for him to just move on. they are not so sure that he is the right fighter. so does that person -- does an indictment thrust them into donald trump's arms because they are mad at the elites and deep state that are out to get him? maybe. or does an indictment be the final straw for that person to say donald, i still love you, i hope you take down that liberal judge, but we need to beat joe biden so i'll move on to ron

desantis. and i think that it could go both ways. some that is this category a and some category b. so i think this is a bit of a fool's errands because i do think that the type of maga voter's reaction might be a little different depending onrrk that the type of maga voter's reaction might be a little different depending on whether they are ultra trump or ultra ultra ultra trump. >> and knowing what you believe about merrick garlandgarland, w believe is the pie is the facts, the politics and calendar, how much of each makes up their thinking and their calculations? >> i can tell you what the answer should be. >> start with that. because i have a theory too. >> so i think that as tim just said, i think that the way it should be is you don't think

about sort of these collateral consequences. you think about is this somebody who you can make a criminal case on and who should be charged. and by should, it is not what will happen to the country. is this a crime normally prosecuted and are other people held to account? and january 6 we see all these foot soldiers, so the idea that the leader wouldn't be charged but the foot soldiers would be. the rule of law just does not tolerate that. the idea of appeasement. well, that went out with world war ii. you don't say that we're not going to charge because we're trying to appease these people. >> one would hope. >> i do think the most

charitable view to answer your question about what happened during the two years from when merrick garland took office to i'll say the january 6 hearings, and there was precedent. obama didn't want to look back at cia criminality which seemed really egregious. the idea was to move forward. president biden had sort of signaled that as well. and i think that the gift of the january 6 committee is that it both gave cover for merrick garland and also made it imperative that something had to be done and they saw how much they had left on the table which i thought the most telling thing was the story that came out when cassidy hutchinson testified

that people in the department was surprised by it. i was frankly shocked as a former person that they would be surprised and when they supposedly should have been doing this investigation. having said that, i think that jack smith, if there are any charges, you canment can't can't as a practical matter bring them in the middle of a political season. it is like put up or shut up time where you really have to decide do you havesuzanne, we t smith and the sdny black box that is the trump individual and we don't talk enough about the irs. to your knowledge did the irs ever look at our study what you

looked at and studied and should they have? >> it is a black box. we don't know. we know that he is under and you had audit. it is a bit of a mis-friday.you had audit. it is a bit of a mis-friday. there are things that we found in our reporting that were thought were worthy of investigation. and i want to make one point because i keep thinking about there is a lot of discussion just about talking about whether or not, you know, just because there is a crime should it be prosecuted. and i don't want to-of i just think about i had a conversation this morning about trump but it wasn't about this. and at the end of the conversation, he mentioned that i really -- rail just want to say to you, because you are writing about this stuff and you think about this, he felt it was

unfairjust want to say to you, because you are writing about this stuff and you think about this, he felt it was unfair he feeled like it was a small crime to be going after him and they are doing it just because it is him. and it is not fair, such a small thing. there are a lot of companies that probably falsify business records. and i think this is the other side of the coin. it may have a lot of effect on the supporters out there. and i don't think that this is necessarily a slam dunk that this is not going to -- you know, this is going to hurt him. i don't see that necessarily and i think a lot of people may have that reaction. the person was fairly soft spoken, very measured person. and felt it was unfair. and he just wanted to say that in a really plain way. and it struck me when he did that i think that this is a bet of a bouncing ball that could go either way for trump. a misdemeanor that they will try to get up to a larger, you know, possible consequence. but that is the way this person saw it. i just thought that was really

interesting, you know, their kind of not deep in this and they came away with that. >> and listen, having covered the "access hollywood" tape disclosure in real time on live tv and donald trump telling meg megyn kelly that she had blood coming out of her everywhere. but to try to predict who the supporters are saying what we no you are lies is a fool's errand. >> you want account ability, you do. >> you do the right thing and chips fall where they may. but it is not quite that simple because you have to make sure that you win the case. this is not a slam dunk case for a bunch of reasons andrew can

tell you better than me. but there will be these follow-on consequences and they have much bigger implications for all of us in our democracy whether or not he is convicted of writing this check many years ago. and i just want to think about those. and i want to be prepared to deal with them. >> should bragg think about this? >> i think any prosecutor has to win a case that they bring. if you are bringing it with any consequences, you sure as heck want to. why is it that every time people want to move forward and not look backward, it helps the republicans? if this was hillary clinton, they would have nailed her to the wall. >> jim jordan has witnesses. >> do you remember the jim comey letter? nobody seemed to give a damn -- >> because democrats are more afraid of republicans than republicans are of democrats. >> so i think we should hold them accountable, let's get the politics right and make the case

to the american people about why it is important. because sometimes i think that we just idict everybody will get why it is important. but we should know better. >> but if you continue to let him get away with everything that he does, he will continue everything he does. >> but the big game is to continue to make them weaker. one of the things that many of us feel good about in the 2021 elections is that it seems like democracy got stronger, that the number of americans who understood why that was important shrink. and they rejected the maga arguments. so i want to continue that progress and marginal i'd the dangerous people so when we hold them accountable it really sticks. >> and not add people like suzanne soros to the trump corner. >> and i was going to say, this

just does seem wrong what he did. if we go back to that really simple thing, what happened was wrong. are we going to split the law and it will be hard to bring the case? seems something righteous about what they are doing. but it doesn't seem right that you can write a check and cover it up in the final days of an election. it is scandalous what happened. >> and it doesn't seem right that you could be the one that had sex with stormy daniels and paid for her keeping quiet about the sex you had and the other guy goes to jail. but maybe that is just me. thank you all for starting us off here. and a quick break for us. the developing story about brand new death threats aimed at democratic politicians and law enforcement officers. and we'll tell you all about it. s and we'll tell y aoull about it. hi, i'm katie. i live in flagstaff, arizona. i'm an older student. i'm getting my doctorate in clinical psychology. i do a lot of hiking and kayaking.

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a separate plot to kill whitmer and lgbtq community members. and joins us, pete strzok. this is coming at a more frequent clip. these indictments being unsealed, understanding that the fbi seems to be working all the time to stay -- i forget the term of art. left of boom of these plots. most of them targeting democrats and known sort of political targets of the right. >> that is absolutely right. this week in particular we've seen what we've been talking about for a long time and that the steady drumbeat of getting people fired up, getting people angered, associating with white supremacists town at mar-a-lago, all these things leading to a small number of people who are willing to take those words and place them into action. and in this case the allegations against the individual who was

targeting governor whitmer and others. his handle on youtube was kill the feds for 20. and he was committed more than a decade ago. not allowed to possess guns but according to some reporting his mother bought him rifles and handguns and body armor. and so we're seeing the rhetoric in action. targeting the governor and feds. and this of course is coming just two days after an individual was indicted to making threats on twitterer to the michigan attorney general and others that he would kill other jewish members of the government. and whether this is copycat or just the logical result of the constant drumbeat of racist inflammatory nonsense, we're

seeing real world impact. and for the fbi, you are right. trying to track any one thing like this is hard. but doing it in multiple settings beyond just the state of michigan, i can't imagine how much is on the fbi's plate right now. >> and a terrifying time to be in the arena. it is a really terrifying time to be a woman in the arena. a really terrifying time to be a democratic woman in michigan in the arena. >> that's right. and it is the kind of thing that after the fact, you know, we're all going to say why didn't we do more. and if i can threat on the threats as well to the lgbtq community, this is very serious what is going on. we have seen a concerted effort by republican leaders to just turn the volume up. particularly against the trans community. and we already know there is tremendous violence against that community, particularly trans people of color. and it is outrageous that they are continuing to fan the flames

and people will get hufrt and the specific demonization of that segment of the lgbtq community is so contain because they believe it to be the most weakest and so they can attack it. and the rest of us have to stand with them because people will get hurt. >> and so sophia bush had a tweet about what it is doing to the trans community. dehumanization, persecution, inciting violence. do you see it that way? >> what is amazing to some of us, they are trying to make it illegal to have a drag show in tennessee but apparently you can have a nazi rally and people will defend and perhaps properly first amendment rights -- >> and people can have three long guns. >> thank you. even to hate speech but they won't defend the right of lgbtq people just to exist or live. and by the way, drag queens are some of the most i think

interesting and decent people that you will meet because they have this tragic sense about life but they are still smiling and laughing and performing and trying to bring joy and happiness. that is the point of those performances. and to turn them into something else is particularly cynical. but i also think that it is just a fact that they don't hurt anybody. and it is guns that are killing children in this country. it is not drag queens. >> and we'll get into the being a duties case of hypocrisy on the other side of the break. up next, apologizing for a series of emojis and comments. he says he is being supportive but it doesn't sync up with the

late's relentless campaign of anti-lgbtq bills. s campaign of anti-lgbtq bills

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♪ ♪ ♪ get directv with a two year price guarantee. (vo) red lobster's finer points of fun dining: at lobsterfest, whether you're a sea-foodie or a lobster newbie, there's something for everyone. try one of six dishes, like new lobster and shrimp tacos for $17.99. and leave completely lobsessed. welcome to fun dining. i think there will be a lot more careful about using social media. it's just that, you know, i, you know, try and encourage people with posts and try to, you know, help them if i can. >> were you trained to help this

young man in some sort of way? >> just basically trying to encourage him. >> you're going to have to go watch this in its entirety. it's 5:21 that you won't regret. that was a part of it. that was tennessee's lieutenant governor randy mcnally being interviewed about the like and comment functions on some pretty racy instagram posts from a 20-year-old gay man. it's a scandal largely because of mcnally's hypocrisy. he's a leader in the state whose government has become one of the fiercest in attacking the rights and dignity of the lgbtq community. his boss, governor bill lee, signed bills about drag shows and banning reforming care for minors. mcnally was confronted about his party's anti-lgbtq.

>> i'm not anti-gay. >> that's great. why do you pass anti-gay bills? >> well, we pass bills that kind of limit certain things. >> we're back with tim miller and sean patrick maloney. >> wow. >> yeah. >> there's easier ways to come out i want to say. i feel like it's not a laughing matter that some of us are so sick to death of this transparent emotional drama that's leaking out all over the place but real people get hurt. families like mine get hurt and tims. for god's sakes, go somewhere else and work out your stuff and come back to the public's space and do the people's business. while you're figuring it out, the rest of us are getting hurt. >> for anyone who hasn't seen the whole interview, this is a politician, republican politician, operationalizing by putting in place policies that hurt the lgbtq community where

it seems like what he really is excited about in his hours on social meeting is liking and putting fire emojis on instagram posts that suggest that it is contradicting who he is and i wonder, you know, the hypocrisy is the story but the damage is the thing we shouldn't take our eyes off of, tim. >> yeah, i focus on the damage and the great local outlet down there that has been all over this. the lieutenant governor and governor is a hypocrite who passed a drag ban but it's not silly for the people that are potentially the victims, the people that are being targeted and marginalized here in the state of tennessee. this is potentially, i think, the biggest anti-lgbt legislature in the country right now in tennessee, and that's a competitive category given what's going on in florida, arkansas and other places. these drag bans, combine what we

were talking about earlier in the segment, about how justice needs to be the same for everyone. in tennessee they've literally signed a bill that makes it a felony, it is a felony offense to host a drag brunch now. i mean, like this is madness, right? and the offense is determined based upon whether or not, you know, the authorities in the state decide whether or not the performance is prurient, whether it's intended to be sexualized. in this case bill lee or whoever, some straight guy in tennessee, can try to have a little fun and put on a dress and go out on a football field and make a joke at the expense of gays and that's fine, right? but if a drag show is judged to be sexualized based on the eyes of whoever the officer is that is walking through, then that -- then that person can be criminalized. to me this bans -- i asked actually arkansas has a similar

bill and i asked sarah huckabee's office for an article in the bulwark whether this bans gay pride in arkansas and i think the answer is yes. we will see when we come up to gay pride this summer what the states do. i don't see how you can ban drag shows in public places and say we can have a gay pride parade is a public space and you have drag performances there. i think this stuff is going to come to a head. these folks are targeting the community, particularly the drag community and it's gross, a little pathetic, the targets it's very serious and getting increasingly serious. >> tim miller. sean patrick maloney, very nice to have you here in the studio. come see us. don't be a stranger. >> happy to do it. >> thank you very much. what some of the most maga republicans in washington are trying to do for the january 6th

rioters sitting in jail cells right now will blow your mind. that's our next story. don't go anywhere. light, with intelligent alerts when a person or familiar face is detected. sam. sophie's not here tonight. so you have a home with no worries. brought to you by adt. it's daylight saving time. what's the big deal? what's the big deal? what's the big deal? ♪marching band music♪ scotts daylawn saving is the biggest deal of the year. stock up early and save up to $20 dollars on the best scotts products.

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is there a number. there's a [ bleep ] of us out there. you're the boss. >> please get up here. [ bleep ] if i give this up, they're going to -- >> hi, everyone. it's 5:00 in new york. on that day it's been described as medieval combat between two sides, right? two groups that would become adversaries on the front lines of the insurrection of january 6th, 2021. take a guess which side the republican party is defending? not the side -- not the party that used to value law and order. they are not siding with the brave men and women of law

enforcement who kept them safe, who suffered horrific trauma and injuries. this republican party is siding with the other guys using their time and their resources and their political capital to aid criminals, people who committed criminal acts that day, who stormed the u.s. capital, wrecked government property, threatened the lives of lawmakers and the then republican vice president mike pence, some of whom even helped in the planning of it plotting to overthrow a free and fair election. republicans are doing this by launching an investigation into whether those people who committed criminal acts, those charged in the deadly insurrection, have been treated unfairly while they were in jail. brand new reporting in "the new york times", quote, the investigation part of a broader effort by republicans to rewrite the history of the riot in part by portraying participants as the true victims, has been a top priority of representative marjorie taylor greene, a

republican from georgia. on thursday, ms. greene wrote to the d.c. mayor muriel bowser demanding answers to questions, a tour of the correctional facility in southeastern washington and access to staff and inmates to conduct interviews by march 23rd. she and two other lawmakers also asked for all documents and communications about the january 6 detainees' complaints regarding the conditions. it is an important but just another in a string of examples of the gop morphing into a party that is indistinguishable from the insurrectionists themselves. a year and a half ago democratic congressman jerry conley of virginia made that point be when criticizing the 21 of his republican colleagues, marjorie tailor greene among them, who voted against awarding congressional gold medals to the police officers who defended the u.s. capitol on january 6th. >> they voted to overturn

election, but in their vote today they kind of sealed the deal of basically affiliating with the mob. they now are part of the insurrectionist mob. they brought enormous ris represent at this tut on themselves in not honoring the capitol of the united states, everybody in it but also defending the symbol of democracy in the world, not just here in the united states. shameful moment. >> now what is different from that shameful moment, and perhaps more alarming, is that the republican party is now in power. it holds the majority in the house. and in the process of gaining power, republicans, especially speaker mccarthy, have made the decision to elevate and basically become political prisoners themselves of the party's most extreme members. more from the times reporting. quote, the investigation of the jail is one of several demands

made by right wing lawmakers. as speaker mccarthy sought their votes during weeks of intense negotiations for the top job in the house. right wing lawmakers, including marjorie taylor greene, extracted a promise that the leaders would investigate speaker nancy pelosi and the justice department for their treatment of defendants jailed in connection with the january 6th attack. the republican party going all in with the insurrectionists is where we begin this hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. eric swallow of california is here. also joining us a reporter whose by-line is on that, luke browwater and former fbi counterintelligence agent pete struck is with us. congressman, i start with you. where do they go next?

>> nicole, to remain as speaker -- by the way, kevin mccarthy has the title speaker. marjorie taylor greene has the job, but to remain as speaker kevin mccarthy is on a reoccurring payment plan and so every week or so there's an installment that must be paid. so marjorie taylor greene, who rooted for the rioters, she goes on the january 6th committee. george santos, admitted liar, wanted international criminal, he stays in congress. tucker carlson, that honest broker of a journalist, he gets all of this security footage. the january 6th terrorists, they don't get swift justice, they get a congressional delegation that comes to visit them. that's the payment plan that kevin mccarthy is under to keep the title of speaker. by the way, nicole, let's just be honest. kevin mccarthy doesn't want to do anything besides have the title. he's never demonstrated an interest in policy or shown a

corset of principles, so the danger there is that, you know, these rogue extremists in the party, they're going to continue to control the agenda. that's dangerous as we have to extend the debt ceiling, keep the government open, keep ukraine in the fight and manage crisis after crisis of the moment, like a banking crisis in california. that needs leadership and you're not going to get that out of rogue extremists. >> you know, luke -- luke, first, take me through the rest of your reporting. we read some of it. take us through what you are writing today. >> sure. i mean, they -- marjorie taylor greene, james comber and the republicans on the house oversight committee are, you know, just as i wrote, demanding to have access to all this -- all these staff and inmates at the jail and they are focused on the poor conditions at the jail, which i think have been widely documented by numerous people.

but then whether those charged with crimes with regards to january 6th are being treated worse than the other inmates. i just got a comment from jamie raskin who said -- who's the top democrat on oversight and he said, look, it's legitimate to investigate poor conditions at correctional facilities. house democrats had an investigation into the bad conditions atliker's island. what stood out to him was the selectiveness of what the republicans are doing here where in his view they did not show the same concern for other inmates in years past or even other inmates at that same facility. they're really concerned only for their supporters in jamie raskin's telling. we'll see if this tour of the jail does happen, whether these interviews will occur. i don't know if they'll take it so far as to issue subpoenas and set up a clash with the correctional facilities. the house republicans are just

getting started here, and this is one of several fronts they're doing. it appears to do some re-investigating of january 6th. >> i mean, luke, it would be an error to presume that they can pull off what you just described. it would be an error to under estimate their capacity to put all of their energy there as well, but just if it doesn't go any farther than this, what raskin has identified is really interesting. i wonder if i can push this. are they concerned that they're being treated differently from the other inmates and, thus, have they sought information about the entire prison population or are they only concerned about the trump supporters who carried out the insur sfleks have you seen the document request and the records request? >> so far we only have seen this letter to mayor bowser, but it does seem, according to the letter, that their primary concern are the january 6th detainees. now i will say last year or actually two years ago now in

the late 2021 marjorie taylor greene did get a tour of the facilities and she did say that she spoke with some inmates there, some of the detainees there and reported back some of what she had heard from those interviews. so there is some precedent that they have given her access before to the jail to check things out. now will she apply an open mind and look at everything and say, you know, these are bad conditions for everyone or conditions have improved or whatever she sees or will she be focused solely on the january 6th days? it seems from the letter that that is her primary concern. >> luke is going to follow the facts wherever they go. the pete, i can tell you they are not going to look at anyone in jail for any reason other than the insurrection. the thing about the insurrectionists is that a lot of them have pleaded guilty for their crimes and so even in the eyes of the insurrectionists the

facts aren't in dispute. what is going on here is a republican effort to say that crimes committed on that day are not actually crimes because they're our people and they're doing what we wanted them to do. the could that be an incriminating fact jack smith looks into if he looks to stitch together a criminal conspiracy? >> that's an interesting question, nicole. i think there's certainly a question in terms when you look specifically at former president trump, statements he's made to the effect of i'm going to pardon everybody who was involved in january 6th. whenever you have some sort of overlap between what he said about january 6th defendants and people convicted of crimes, that certainly is something i think in terms of a state of mind and trying to influence somebody to do something or not do something that would be relevant to his state of mind. you know, i completely agree with you. i've been to d.c. jail. it is a hell hole. it has been a hell home for

decades. marjorie taylor greene didn't care about it before the first january 6th person arrived and she won't care when they leave. this is an attempt to whitewash their history and actions. it's unfortunate but another thing, the time thing, these folks at dc jail are awaiting trial. the presumption in federal system after you are charged that you are released on bail, all the time, 100% time. only are you held if you represent a flight risk or risk to the community, and in this case for every one of these january 6th defendants that are being held at the jail, a judge, not the department of justice, not the fbi, an independent judge says every one of these people poses an unacceptable risk to their community and they should not be released before they go to trial. le those are the people marjorie taylor greene is trying to change the history of what we

all know happened on january 6th. >> congressman, donald trump i think is involved in the song to help these defendants who are exactly as pete strzok described them. donald trump's position is he will pardon all of them. it will become a litmus test in the republican primary to answer that question in the affirmative if you want to win the republican nomination. so the republican position, one of the litmus tests will be to pardon these criminals, people who in some instances permanently maimed law enforcement officers and others gave them trauma that they'll be dealing with for their whole lives. and when you look at the pardon profile, i mean, it's bannon, manafort, it's flynn, it's all people trump had under his wing because they carried out acts at his direction. i mean, what are your thoughts about his commitment to pardon the insurrectionists?

>> donald trump's commitment to pardon the insurrectionists will only encourage people right now to carry out threats and violence because they'll think donald trump has their back. hell, donald trump may even collaborate with you on your next album. by the way, nicole, just a prediction here, it's not going to win a grammy. but the reason that kevin mccarthy and tucker carlson have to rewrite the history of january 6th and erase the heroism of the police officers that day is because donald trump is the likely nominee for their party and they took a shellacking in the mid-terms because they were seen as extreme and chaotic. so they have to rewrite that day to give donald a chance -- to give donald trump a glimmer of a chance in 2024. it's really on us if we want this democracy on life support to be resuscitated that we can't allow that to happen and we have to push back and we have to hold

the people accountable who are enabling that and that starts with the speaker of the house who for that corrupt bargain turned over that footage to tucker carlson. >> luke, i want to just put-back on the table, we're talking about pardons, the pardons sought by kevin mccarthy's most powerful lieutenants in that conference. this was from cassidy hutchinson's testimony. >> you mentioned mr. gates, mr. brooks. >> mr. biggs did. mr. jordan talked about congressional pardons but he never asked me for one. mr. gomert asked for one as well. he asked for a pardon, too. >> mr. shapiro. >> did he talk to you directly? >> yes, he did. >> did marjorie taylor greene talk to you? >> no, she didn't contact me about it. i heard she had asked the white house counsel office for a pardon from mr. philbin, but i

didn't frequently communicate with ms. greene. >> now, luke, i crossed that list over against the list of the 21 republicans who voted against congressional gold medals for law enforcement and no surprise, they're all on that list. and i guess my question is, you know, since before trump left these pardon-seeking republicans who helped plan and plot the coup had been engaged in this. and your reporting, i think, has book marked today's story by one of the first stories i remember reading about the close associations between i think you reported out on ten members with the extremist groups. and i wonder how much of that you think was news to kevin mccarthy, how complicit he is, and how far he's moved the republican conference into this really extreme territory, not just ideologically but in terms of their associations?

>> right. well, you know, i spoke with mo brooks after that news came out about the pardons. he admitted he had sent a letter to donald trump and they had -- the trump white house actually asked for this letter where he was officially requesting pardons for him and many other people in congress who had worked to try to overturn the election and the 140 some who stood up and objected to the election to try to block the certification of president biden on january 6th. but, yes, you ask a good question about kevin mccarthy and what is his role in all of this. the in some wamz kevin mccarthy's role is to -- the position he's in is to basically enable what took place. we now have three different investigations going in the house it seems into january 6th. i've got this review that

marjorie taylor greene is doing and oversight. you've got the outsourced one and this investigation on barry loudermill who they wanted to question his role given the day before the election. what we're seeing now is kevin mccarthy has sort of outsourced this to other members or even media outlets where maybe he's not doing it all himself but he's empowering people to try to rewrite the history of january 6th and relit at this gate it. >> pete, let me show you something congressman swalwell had to say yesterday. >> federal law enforcement must be concerned that threats are being carried out to local volunteers on school boards all over america, and apparently the majority is here today to defend those who were making those threats, taking time away from

hanging out with the january 6th defendants at the d.c. jail, they're here today to defend threats like this. a threat that says, it is too bad that your mama is an you ugly communist who are. if she doesn't quit or resign before the end of the year, we will kill her, but first we will kill you. that was a threat sent to a child. these guys are defending that threat. they don't believe law enforcement has any business investigating that threat. i don't know what happened to the republican party that the sided with law enforcement and law and order and public safety but we're here today because they believe that threat is okay and no one in law enforcement should investigate it. >> pete, i know law enforcement and the fbi are not a monolith, but they're also not hermetically sealed off from the political moment. i wonder what your sense is of how the republican efforts to take in some instances people who have pleaded guilty to their

criminal acts on january 6th and lift them up and out from the rest of the prison population as the center piece of one of the most powerful members from the house in congress. how the tapes going to tucker carlson, how do these very political antilaw enforcement moves land inside the fbi? >> nicole, that's an excellent question. i think it's a very hard place to be in. i know certainly in the fbi but throughout law enforcement there's a strong desire to stay out of politics. whatever is being said by political figures on the hill or anywhere else is treated as background noise and focus on whatever is in front of you, those cases in front of you. to what the congressman said yesterday, that's absolutely right. you have this odd duel effect that on the one hand you have some members of the extreme right in congress saying, don't investigate threats to school board members. don't investigate things related to trump setting up committees

to investigate those who investigated the various crimes and then at the same time you have the idealization of these folks like the january 6th defts, of raising and associating with known white supremacists down at mar-a-lago, what we talked about the last hour. that in addition to preventing or trying to prevent some investigations, actually encouraging radicalization and creating domestic terror threats that we see popping up throughout the u.s. and these couple of new cases here in michigan this week. so i think it's on everybody's mind. it is not something that anybody wants to -- in law enforcement in my experience wants to get engaged in because that's just -- there are no winners come out of taking on this political -- these political issues if you're within law enforcement, but people are aware of it. people see it. i think it's just got to be enormously frustrating. >> just an inescapable new feature of our politics. congressman eric swalwell, thank

you for starting us off and thank you all for being here with us today and starting us off this hour again. ahead for us, potential bombshell in the e. jean carroll lawsuit. a federal judge ruling she may introduce the now infamous "access hollywood" tape as evidence against the twice impeached disgraced ex-president. how that changes things is our next conversation. plus, an alarming new report on the sharp rise of white supremacist propaganda now at the highest level ever recorded. the growing danger to national security and democracy while standing idly by in the face of far right extremism. "deadline white house" continues after the break. don't go anywhere today. right f♪ ♪ i've got a plan to which i'm sticking. ♪ ♪ my doc wrote me the script. ♪ ♪ box came by mail. ♪ ♪ showed up on friday. ♪

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you know, i'm automatically attracted. i start kissing them. it's like a magnet. when you're a star you can do anything. >> whatever you want. >> grab 'em by the [ bleep ]. you can do anything. >> somehow it's more disgusting now than when i first heard it, but it is now the most infamous thing he ever said, the horrifying hot mic moment in which a would be future u.s. president and leader of the republican party and country bragged about being able to grope women without their consent. that was 2005. we first learned about it in 2016 but in recent months donald trump has been trying to block writer e. jean carroll from

using it in her defamation case against him after him calling her claims a, quote, hoax. well, today federal judge louis cap lain gave carol the okay to play that tape in court if she wants because that tape alone, kaplan says, could tell the jury, quote, that mr. trump admitted that he had, in fact -- has always had contact with women's genitalia in the past without their consent or that he has attempted to do so. the but judge kaplan is also siding with carol in allowing the testimony of two other women who say they were sexually assaulted by trump in different decades. allegations he has denied and testimony he has sought to block. joining us now, legal analyst katie fang. she is host of msnbc's "the katie phang show." first to the law. when he confessed to doing the

very thing that was part of the fact or evidence at issue, it seemed like it would only be fairer to e. jean carroll to play that tape. it is a recorded confession of the very same act or category of acts, if you will. but it does seem like a very big advantage in terms of the specific case she's making. how do you see it? >> so from a legal standpoint, nicole, normally when you go to trial, either in a civil or criminal case, you've been accused of doing something wrong, the rules of evidence usually only allow the jury or a judge to be able to hear the evidence pertaining to that one specific act or that one specific, excuse me, course of conduct. and it's kind of fair if you think about it, nicole. a lot of people would run the risk of being convicted or liable for something if you allowed a parade of victims and accusers of saying you did whatever you're being sued for.

in this instance it reminds me of bill cosby or harvey weinstein. it's the same idea. there's a rule of federal evidence that allows judge louis kaplan to make this decision. i want to read the relevant portion of this rule, rule 415. the it says, if you have the past conduct of a person with a history of rape, it provides they have the combination of aggressive and sexual impulses that motivates such crimes. now a jury is going to hear from not only e. jean carroll but two other accusers of donald trump. does that mean e. jean gets a serious advantage in this case? absolutely. does judge kaplan think that's fair? he does as well. that's why he is the j you are is not only going to hear the "access hollywood" tape but from the other victims. >> how is this case progressing? not all of it is public facing but it feels like when rulings or developments burst into

public view they are all in e. jean carroll's case's advantage. how do you see it with a fuller picture. >> i appreciate that because i think people need to remember there are two e. jean carroll cases. there's one being called carroll one. the defamation case. the department of justice as you recall intervened on behalf of donald trump and now it's up on appeal. if the appeals court says the doj did right by stepping in for donald trump, that case is dead in the water. there's another case called carroll ii. that was the sexual assault case. it includes another act of defamation that donald trump did on truth social. regardless, whatever happens to the carroll i case, on april 25th a trial will begin in front of a jury, in front of judge kaplan. e. jean carroll gets her day in court. gets to get in front of a jury

and explain what happens to her. the real question, will donald trump show up in court? when it was just e. jean, i thought maybe he would show up. but now that it's e. jean, the tape, two other alleged sexual assault victims, i don't think he's going to show up in court. >> he's not a big show up guy these days. katie phang, quickly remind us what happened. doj is defending trump in carroll i, is that right? >> yeah, that's right. donald trump made those defamatory statements denying that he assaulted e. jean carroll. the department of justice stepped in and said we because donald trump was the president at the time was making the statements as the course of business and we'll step in and be donald trump in that lawsuit which would effectively end the case. how do you defame a private citizen and say that's in the course of your job as a

president. that's up on appeal and we're waiting to see what that appeals court says. >> we'll be watching. thank four your help. no one better. katie phang, thank you so much. when we come back, as the republican party fails, refuses, looks the other way when given opportunities to denounce insurrectionists, there's no wonder why we're seeing a historic rise of white supremacy propaganda. the results of a stunning new study we'll bring you after a quick break. your heart is the beat of life.

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the breaking news we brought you about threats to democratic lawmakers in michigan in the last hour underscores, offers fresh evidence of the most pressing stories we've ever had here. one of the greatest threats to our national security and to the democracy itself. the rise in domestic extremism in our country, specifically that of white supremacy. according to a new report by the antidefamation league, the spread of white supremacist propaganda hit the highest level the adl has ever recorded in 2022 making a 38% jump from the year before according to the adl. at least 50 different white supremacist groups and networks distributed propaganda but three specific groups, patriot front, goyim defense league and white lives matter were responsible for 93% of the total propaganda.

the adl's ceo jonathan greenblatt said in a statement accompanying this report, quote, there is no question that white supremacists and antisemites are trying to terrorize and harass americans and they have significantly stepped up their use of propaganda as a tactic to make their presence known in communities nationwide. joining us now is jonathan greenblatt. take us through this new data. and i have to say, i note all of the reports are almost entirely data driven. irrefutable statistics and numbers. i imagine that's by design. >> yeah. the look, adl has been fighting hate across america for over 100 years and we are deeply data driven. i mean, i think it's really important, nicole, in this moment to be evidenced based and focus on the facts and the facts are that as you laid out in the intro, white supremacist propaganda is at the highest

point that we've ever seen since we started looking at this. the anti-semetic attitudes have doubled and we know antijewish incidents, vandalism and violence have reached historic high in 2019. that was ee clipped in 2021 and i'm afraid the 2022 numbers will also be grim and we've got to acknowledge that part of this is because our political environment has been so poisoned by the kind of rhetoric that the previous age we never would have tolerated, now it's just everyday stuff on certain news networks, across social media and in the public conversation generally. >> are there certain statements and associations, i mean, this is not -- in our politics this is not a problem that has equal representation and statistics on both sides.

white supremacy is the coalition, if you will, that the right now claims. they don't want to join in statements condemning a lot of this for fear of alienating that part of their base. how do you deal with the ideology in light of, if you just accept, the broken nature of our politics? >> so let's start -- that's a good question. it's important, nicole, that we lay this out. first of all, you can definitely see extremism on both sides. no party is immune from, again, this poison of prejudice. with respect to white nationalism, white supremacy, that is an issue on the right for sure and there's no question that the sort of maga movement, the trump movement has led the mainstream of this into our politics. now if i look at the gop more broadly, the fact of the matter is, you know, two of the presidential candidates right now on the gop side, they're of

south asian dissent. they're not white supremacists and people like chris christie, mitt romney, other leaders have spoken out. we need now in this moment everyone to explicitly and intentionally reject this because what starts with, you know, flyering, with events, with dropping banners can actually lead to violence in the real world. i mean, you likely know that earlier today the department of justice announced charges against a man who stated that he intended to assassinate jewish elected officials in the state of michigan. and, you know, you led into this piece with the evidence of the men who mauraded into the capitol wearing sweatshirts like 6 million wasn't enough, camp auschwitz. i don't think anyone on any side of the aisle should say that that's okay or would say that

that's okay except for one person, and that needs to be rejected by everyone. >> i mean, the images of the insurrection represent people to whom donald trump said that day, quote, i love you. we love you. >> yeah. >> today i did a story earlier in this hour, 40 minutes ago, that many of the insurrectionists are now the target of a campaign to investigate conditions in the jail, not for everybody in the jail but just for the insurrectionists. we're beyond a refusal to condemn. we're now at an elevation and martyrdom and potential violence? >> we know the far right for many, many years has sort of fetishized martyrdom and bringing it home. this notion of people who want to see themselves as combatants in a global war to stop white genocide, some imagined,

perceived conspiracy. that is ugly, fraught, needs to be called out by law enforcement across the aisle. i've also got to say, you know, a week ago today the department of justice announced charges against an antizionist extremist, nicole, who planned on bringing firebombs to a pro israel rally in new york city. it just reminds us that what's so evil about extremism is it can infect everyone and then it endangers the people in the middle. like i don't want any martyrs, i don't want any shahids. i want the center to resume its prominence and we push back on the evil of extremism wherever it comes from. >> jonathan greenblatt, we appreciate your time and your reports and the reliance on data and statistics. pretty hard to argue with that. thank you for joining us. >> thanks for having me, nicole. joining our conversation, the reverend al sharpton. adl's own reports, especially

the last two, look at extremism across the ideological spectrum but their own data suggests percentage wise it is the problem of the american right. i understand adl's mission is to eradicate hate wherever it is and not necessarily based on the proportionality. those of us in the political arena cannot close our eyes to the fact that it is a problem in the republican party today, day after day. there are new reasons, fresh ways that they make clear that extremists are part of their political coalition. >> they make it clear not only by their deeds but by their silence to the extremists or when you say i don't want to alienate extremists, then you are saying you are normalizing the extremists and that there's some element of truth you think is in the extreme. when we see the rise of anti-semitism, the rise of racism, we work national action network with adl, lulac, the

latino organization, api organizations against all hate. what needs to happen is all of us need to denounce the attacks against any of us in order to protect the rest of us. and i think that greenblatt has done that, others have done that. we even had a hate summit at the white house, but the question is when will the political right, when will the republican leadership, when will those that say, well, i don't agree with everything but i like donald trump, when will they denounce that? >> never. i can answer that, never. >> well, then they are co-signing it with their silence. >> reverend, we have to sneak in a break. i want to ask you something sean patrick maloney said, understanding there is potential to create a democracy coalition voter. i had a woman on who was one of the defendants in the texas lawsuit. she was deprived health care she needed after she lost her daughter. i wonder if it's leaders like

yourself who help the democratic coalition stitch it all together under a bigger umbrella? >> it must be stitched together going forward whether we come together or come into it backwards. the only way we stop this is together. together the coalition becomes the majority and separate the coalition can't win with separate silos and that's why they want to play us one against the other. >> right. right. >> this one is not really with you, this one is that. when you have leaders that have to defend other leaders, it's because we understand they're going to lie on all of us. and if we are mature enough to stitch this together and say, don't believe the propaganda, we've all made mistakes, but they are not against us, we are altogether to fight against those that are haters. >> there are some really gifted leaders, i think. i think leader jeffreys and others are doing that. i want to follow up on that. we have to sneak in a break. the rev al sticks around.

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absolutely ostracized by the media for not doing what now the media is saying are you going to do it. so aside from that, who is he and what is he and what is this all about that he is trying to do in manhattan to deal with crime and bail reform and police reform at the same time. they have some real programs in manhattan that i think the nation needs to know about. >> and i know i live in new york, so i think it's the center of the world. but every problem everybody in the world and this country deals with has a thread here. the things that people are dealing with, drugs, whether it's crime, whether it's education, it all runs through here, and you're right. i mean, even the book by mark pomerantz was i think evidence that at the beginning he did not seem interested to other people in these cases. he has proven anyone thought he didn't have the spine to do this, whatever he decides he pursued this investigation with

gusto. >> he has said on many cases, and this is certainly the most high-profile, that i'm not going with a case unless i am convinced we have it nailed down and we can win. and i think that's at judgment he had on this. he was just in there two months when he decided that he didn't see enough to go with the trump case at that point. nobody asks, wait a minute, if it was that solid why didn't his predecessor go forward? he took the beating. he is a strong guy. he took the med beating and kept digging in. we know him in harlem. he is a solid fam man, sunday schoolteacher, comes to a lot of the rallies, lives four or five blocks away. he will not tell you what he is going to do. i will tell you this. he a rock solid guy. he is not going to be intimidated. >> so glad he is talking to you. >> thank you. i am glad he is, too.

i will be happy to talk to the guy that i have known personally but in a professional capacity of what he is doing. >> a moment that everyone is on pins and needles for. of course he is talking to you. reverend al sharpton, thank you. a quick break for us. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ get directv with a two year price guarantee. what causes a curve down there? is it peyronie's disease? will it get worse? how common is it? who can i talk to? can this be treated? stop typing. start talking to a specialized urologist. because it could be peyronie's disease, or pd. it's a medical condition where there is a curve in the erection, caused by a formation of scar tissue. and an estimated 1 in 10 men may have it.

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