hammered into the trump base, that these people want to take these -- take away these beloved programs. >> that's what they need to do. democrats should be focusing on exactly what we just said -- defining ron desantis and trump as extremists. they are both unfit to be president of the united states. do not be fooled here. instead of going after each other or worrying about joe biden being too old, or should there be someone else? no. they need to stay focused on the successes that joe biden has had as president. and there are lots of. them and on defining the republicans as the extremists that they are -- it's all right there. they're laying it out for you. there are two americas, and it's time for choosing. and we choose democracy and that's the democrats. that's the message. >> i have no idea what's going to happen. but i'm going to take some -- americans that will elect a guy who is -- president. just saying. tara setmayer, and fernando armandi, thank you both. that is all in for this week. alex wagner tonight starts right now. good evening, alex wagner. >> is that the dividing line for you? >> can i just be clear about

this? obviously, this is a ridiculous, terryville trivial thing -- but in the modern era, tele-candidates do better. >> how tall are you? >> i'm six feet. >> -- >> i can do it. do you think i should run for president? >> i'm not going to comment on that in the 26 seconds we have left. >> have a great show. >> i like -- i always have, chris hayes. have a great weekend. and thanks to you at home for being here. happy friday. we have lots to get to this evening. but i want to start tonight with a book. it is published by winning team publishing. that's the name of the publishing house. winning team publishing. and you can preorder it. now it is $99, which is an expensive book. but it includes this letter -- dated december 21st, 1987. it reads, they were donald, i did not see the program, but mrs. nixon told me that you were really great on the donahue show. as you can imagine, she is an

expert on politics. and she predicts that whenever you decide to run for office, you will be a winner. with warm regards, richard nixon. that letter is from a new book, from donald trump, coming out next month. and it is titled, letters to trump. it includes correspondence with celebrities and dignitaries and former presidents, including, apparently, richard nixon. today, trump called nixon, a very interesting guy, and informed reporters that nixon's biggest regret was resigning amidst the watergate scandal. the twice impeached trump went on to say that, unlike nixon, he does have public support and, if it were him, trump would not have resigned as nixon did. now it is quite fitting for president trump to be focused on president nixon today, endorsing that he would not have resigned during watergate, because trump now finds himself under federal investigation, or rather federal investigations, plural. special counsel jack smith is overseeing two sprawling criminal inquiries into the former president regarding

events surrounding january 6th and classified documents that trump kept hidden at mar-a-lago. yesterday, a brigade of trump lawyers were in federal court in washington d.c. as justice department prosecutors were trying to compel trump lawyer evan corcoran to provide additional testimony before a grand jury in the mar-a-lago documents case. in particular, they want to talk to corcoran about why he drafted a statement to investigators, saying there were no more classified documents at the presidents beach club when that turned out to not be the case at all. and then there is the massive january 6th investigation in trump's effort to subvert the 2020 election. the special counsel is currently in a court fight to force vice president mike pence to testify. cnn reported this week that pence has asked a judge to block that request. and then, down at the state level, don trump is facing even more scrutiny. in georgia, fulton county da fani willis's investigation into trump's effort to overturn the states election results -- that is rasht thing up.

the foreperson of the special grand jury last month -- recommended about a dozen criminal indictments and imply that the list included donald trump. here in manhattan, prosecutors under district attorney alvin bragg are full steam ahead in their investigation into the former president's alleged hush money payments to porn star stormy daniels during the 2016 campaign. the new york times reported last night that prosecutors are signaling to trump's lawyers that an indictment is coming, and they have offered the former president the chance to testify before that grand jury. that seems to have struck a nerve with the former president. he published a lengthy statement last night, saying he did absolutely nothing wrong, denying he ever had an affair with stormy daniels. and calling the probe, amongst many other, things a, quote, political witch hunt. and then today, trump posted a video. >> our country has become the investigation capital of the world. actually, that's all we do.

and it's only good for our many enemies, our enemies that are laughing at us all over the world. they could not be happier as they brilliantly plot our demise and destruction. >> while trump decried the manhattan district attorney's investigation, his former lawyers and fixer, mike or michael cohen, met today for the 20th time with prosecutors about those hush money payments. 20 times -- >> i have to applaud district attorney brag for giving donald the opportunity to come in and tell his story. now, knowing donald as well as i do, understand that he does not tell the truth. it's one thing to turn around and to lie on your own truth social it's another thing to turn around a lie before a grand jury. which i don't suspect that he is going to be coming -- >> nbc news reports tonight that michael cohen is now set to testify before the manhattan grand jury on monday afternoon. the new york times reports that mr. cohen's testimony before the grand jury is the second strong indication that the district attorney will ask it

to indict the former president, possibly as soon as this month. joining us now are michael schmidt, new york times reporter and author of donald trump versus the united states, and rebecca roiphe, professor at new york law school and former assistant attorney in the manhattan da da's office. rebecca, i want to start with you, as someone familiar with what the president calls the investigation capital of the world. never mind that he was talking about the country and not to city. i digress. this investigation, alvin bragg, our da, the manhattan da's investigation into hush money payments, for a long time, there was the impression that it had gone dormant. all of a sudden, we are hearing that a criminal indictment may be forthcoming in a matter of weeks. did it ever go dormant? or are things happening beneath the surface that we were not aware of? do you have sort of an assessment about how this all unfolded so quickly in recent

weeks? >> so, it's hard to know for sure. >> yeah. >> my guess is it never went dormant. i don't think any of these investigations went dormant. i think they were all proceeding in a parallel way and the prosecutors are assessing them as they go along and deciding in a tactical strategic way, and also in terms of their own discretion, which cases to bring, if any, and in what order to bring them in. >> do you have a sense -- i mean, again, this is all -- we are playing a guessing game here. but given your experience in understanding the way the sometimes work, is it your sense that something -- there was a turn of the screw? that, you know they have been hauling in all kinds of trump loyalists in recent days, from kellyanne conway, to hope hicks. michael cohen has been in there 20 times -- that they got some piece of evidence that sort of been juiced this and put it on steroids? or do you have any sense of what would be necessary, after such a long period of investigating this very topic? >> right.

there are some complications in this case. for one, the star witness he's a bit problematic. >> yeah. >> and the second one is, it's legally not the simplest case. but that said, the facts are not wholly so intricate. so, you are right. the fact that they have been investigating it for so long and then, at this point, suddenly -- you, know it seems to be coming to a quick end. >> yeah. >> so, i don't really know. it could be that they have some testimony or something that more clearly ties into this case than they had before. that's entirely possible. or they just decided that these pieces fit together, that the puzzle pieces fit together in a way that, before they hadn't really assist. >> michael schmidt, rewind. go back, if you could, to the year 2016 -- actually, 2018 -- when all this was unfolding in the national media, and i wonder, when you read the names kellyanne conway and, to some degree, hope hicks -- we will set michael cohen aside for the moment. when you read that they were going into the da's office to talk to prosecutors, what was

your thought, in terms of the information that they might be able to provide vis-à-vis the stormy daniels hush money payments? >> these were people who were around in the final weeks of the 2016 campaign, when this all sort of comes together. so, they could speak to what trump was saying behind closed doors, what his relationship with cohen was like, what was cohen doing, how much coordination may have been going on. and even what happens after trump goes into the white house -- because, if you remember, some of the checks, at least one of them, if i recall correctly, was signed by trump in the oval office when it was given to cohen as part of the scheme as it was playing out. so, these were people who were very close to trump, especially hope hicks. this was someone who was traveling around with trump as he was campaigning. kellyanne conway was running the campaign at the time.

so, it's people that were part of that inner circle and behind closed doors, but also people that are not family members and don't come with the optics of bringing in a family member, which sometimes prosecutors do not want to do. these are people that can get you in the room without having to put jared and ivanka there. so, it showed me the seriousness of this. regardless of -- as much as you want to get to the bottom of the facts as a prosecutor, to take the move of bringing in these two individuals, certainly shows you are really, really moving to try and do something. these are not names that had come out much in terms of the stormy daniels payments earlier. so, you are not going to throw them in there before investigators or a grand jury, for gratuitous reasons. so, there is something there that they are looking for as this investigation sort of intensifies and looks like it

is building toward something. >> i'm really quite obsessed with the timing on all of this, michael. and we know that island allen weisselberg, the financial officer for the trump organization, was one of the masterminds, according to michael cohen, about the sort of payment schedule for these hush money payments, or how the initial payment would be reimbursed by trump to cohen. given the fact that allen weisselberg is now serving a sentence at rikers and there was a lot of legal activity around allen weisselberg, do you think that had anything to do with the timing on all of this? do you think there could be any overlap between what happened with weisselberg and the new -- the way in which the da's office is moving with apparent alacrity in all of this? >> i'm not sure. what we know about weisselberg is that they'd really like for him to cooperate. he currently sits in prison. and the prosecutors would really like for that to happen. we have not seen any indication that there has been cracking in that, in that weisselberg has

come to the table to help the prosecutors. now, when you are sitting in prison, prosecutors really hope that, at that point, you can turn someone into a cooperator, that the fact that weisselberg would be sitting there and realize that he could probably get himself out of prison by turning on trump's a bet that the prosecutors can make. because it means nothing to them for weisselberg to continue to sit there. now, is that the reason why all of this has built to where it is now? probably not. i think it's very hard, while we do know a lot about these investigations, and the reporting on it has been very -- we have a sort of up to the minute idea of where this is headed, especially with reporting coming about the fact that the prosecutors are giving trump the opportunity to come in next week to testify -- there are other major factors

here behind the scenes that are driving that we probably won't know about for a few years, to understanding why alvin bragg did what he did. it is interesting to me that alvin bragg is an elected official. he is someone that was put there by the people of manhattan. and it has to be in the front or back of his mind, the fact that it is known that he had this investigation, that a chief prosecutor on that case thought that there was probably enough to make that case, and that, for some reason, it had stalled out. and it's one of the public facing larger aspects of this investigation, that we just can't look past. and that's that donald trump was the most public person, probably, in this country. people have a range of opinions about him. and if you decide to charge him, there is a public facing aspects to all of your

decisions that are unlike any other, probably, criminal investigation in american history besides, as you pointed out at the top of the show, the decisions that were made around nixon. >> and we will put a pin in that for a second. when you talk about alvin bragg bringing these charges, it's not just -- this is not an open and shut case by any means. and you alluded to, this rebecca roiphe, about the sort of -- the challenge is going to be a conviction here. setting aside all the politics, right? in new york, it can be a crime to falsify business records. that would be mischaracterizing the payments to stormy daniels. but it amounts to a misdemeanor, too elevated to a felony the prosecutors would need to show that mr. trump's intent to defraud included an attempt to commit or conceal a crime. and in this case we would expect that second crime to be campaign finance violations, right? >> that is the most obvious one. and it is a little bit difficult to prove. first of all, it is not -- it is untested in courts. but second of all, you have to show that the reason why they

disguise these payments to michael cohen as legal fees, when they were in fact these payments, was to cover up the fact that there were a donation to the campaign. and he is going to claim, no -- one of the key defenses here is, you know, i love melania, i wanted to protect her. >> yes. >> this would have been a public and their assessment. it had nothing to do with my campaign. that makes it quite difficult. because, again, the prosecution as a burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. and as that creates doubt? >> i just wonder -- i mean, trump has said -- his defense thus far, at least from his lawyers, as they have been speaking on background, if you will is -- the line that has been floated's, trump was extorted. why is he being charged with a crime? does that hold any water? >> well, that's another defense. to me, it does not make a whole lot of sense. and it isn't consistent with a lot of facts that we know.

but would a juror -- one juror -- believe that? that's a really big question. and if you are prosecuting the question precedent president, and it ends in a hung jury, that is a huge embarrassment to the office and the criminal justice system in general, and plays right into the -- our criminal justice system, so, i would think that the district attorney has thought of that, of course, and has made sure that, going forward, he is pretty sure that he can prove this case. >> do you think that they would bring michael cohen in -- the fact that he went in for 20 meetings, does that signal anything about the breadth of charges? could that be multiple charges? i know i am asking everybody to read tea leaves here that are scant. but did that surprise you? the number of meetings that michael cohen has had with prosecutors -- >> it does and it doesn't. on a certain level, you have a problematic witness like that -- when you think about it, prosecutors witnesses are always problematic. we used to say, like, nuns

don't witness crime. i mean, some of them do. >> [laughter] >> so, you have to deal with this. but this is a high profile case in a complicated set of facts and the legal theory that somewhat novel. so, you want to make sure that you've got testimony that is credible. and by credible, you must also make sure that you have corroborated enough of the that is believable to the jury. >> michael, i just wonder, if this is the first indictment against the former president, a history-making move on the part of the district attorney, alvin bragg, it is almost certain that there are other indictments to follow, at least one. the signs very much point to fani willis coming forward with a criminal indictment down in the fulton county probe. we don't know what the special counsel is going to do. those could be more indictments. what is your expectation about the ways in which trump can respond to this, and whether or not some people in his party may use this as a moment to rally around the trump flag instead of distancing themselves from the former president? >> trump, probably more so than

anyone, certainly, that i've seen in my career, has been able to take investigations and weaponize them in ways to benefit himself in rally support. look, even on something that at the time wasn't an investigation -- the election -- he was able to rally his supporters to do something extraordinary on january 6th that was unlike anything we had seen in american history. so, i think you have to think that if trump's back is up against a wall, that anything is possible. he has shown. i think there is -- part of the larger facing public part of this investigation -- i think that what alvin bragg will have an obstacle and we'll have to show, is that he's taking a decision that has never been taken against the former president. and even here in new york, where he's likely to face a jury pool that is not going to

look favorably upon donald trump, i still think he will have to show to that jury, and even to the public, that there is good reason for taking this decision, and that this is a major -- that, look, there was a major crime that happened here. this was not a foot fault, this was not taking tack, this was a major thing. and because of that, i am taking a major decision that has never been taken before, to charge former president. and even in new york, where not a lot of donald trump fans -- i still think the jury will sort of look at this and say, like, okay. like, is this really something that a case that would have been brought, if it wasn't donald trump? would it have been brought against a run-of-the-mill politician? and is there good reason there to take that? i understand major tenet in the

united states, the idea that we are all treated equally under the law, and i think prosecutors aim for that, and the public expects that. but when it comes to a former president of the united states, i think that the jury is going to look and say, okay, is this really something that was worth doing? because the implications of it can really reverberate around the country. this is not just a regular person that they would be charging. >> indeed, it is not. there is the court and the court of public opinion. michael schmidt and rebecca roiphe, thank you both for joining me tonight. and while we all away the manhattan da's next move, my colleague, the reverend al sharpton, we'll be talking to the man himself. manhattan da alvin bragg will be his guest on politicsnation tomorrow at 5 pm eastern, right here on msnbc. but we have a lot more to cover on this program tonight, like new reporting about one of the sources of the big lie that should never have seen the light of day but managed to

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washington post, quote, florida governor ron desantis has indicated privately that he intends to run for president, according to two people familiar with his comments. according to the post, ron desantis he's planning on running for president. that is a legitimate scoop for the washington post. but it is not exactly surprising. well governor desantis still hasn't declared he's a republican presidential candidate, he is doing pretty much everything you might expect a republican presidential candidate to do. just today, the florida governor gave a speech in the early caucus state of iowa, where he focused on his number one policy issue, calling all the stuff he doesn't like woke. >> we will never, ever surrender to the woke mob. we will fight the woke in the legislature. we will fight the woke in education. we will fight the woke in the businesses. these companies -- woke companies -- they are indulging and woke activism. we don't subcontract out leadership to awoke company based in california. woke ideology has infected so many institutions. i think it's all because of the

woke mind virus. we are either going to provide protections against woke banking -- our state is where woke goes to die. >> that is the sort of thing we have come to expect from governor desantis these days, i now, in a vogue verve, and the mob is coming for your children. what was less expected today with this veiled shot that desantis took at former president donald trump. >> the one thing i could say, if you talk to floridians, there's no drama in our administration. there is no palace intrigue. they basically just sit back and say, okay, what's the governor going to do next? and we rollout and we execute and we do things. and we get things done. and in the process, we beat the left day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year. >> that is ron desantis ' sales pitch to republican primary voters in a nutshell, the guy he won't make you worry about if your president is about to fire his entire cabinet or

tried by gameland. the problem for governor desantis is, no matter how much he may want to, he cannot escape down trump's drama vortex. today, the former president lashed out at his would-be rival with a special message for i was rural farm community. here it is. nor the president was as pro farmer as me. tell that to ron desanctimonious when he shows up to your door, hat in hand. tell him to go home. but as the trump and desantis rivalry heats up, so do the former presidents legal woes. tonight, just before we got on the, at the washington post ashley parker published this new report, delay tailing how republicans are growing uneasy about the threat posed by trump's legal drama and are searching for an alternative. kevin madden, former senior adviser to mitt romney's campaign, tells the post, the theory that trump defined invalidated throughout his political career has been the fifth avenue republican theory, which is that he could do anything -- he could shoot anybody on fifth avenue and they would stick with him. that is going to be put to the test. but so far, it has proven to be an enduring principle.

joining us now is the reporter herself, ashley parker, senior national political correspondent for the washington post. actually, thank you for joining me this friday, evening fresh off of your filing i. would love to get your thoughts talking, as you have been, in recent days, with republicans in the party, about how the gop and someone like ron desantis might calibrate a response to any potential trump indictment. because, on some level, it is bound to fire up the base. so, what do you do with that if you are trying to provide an alternative to trump but also not alienate your most hard-core supporters? >> well, that's exactly right. and -- from some of these republicans, you hear theory of the case, or advice, for someone like ron desantis that is seemingly contradictory. it is something like a potential indictment would make a certain section of the republican base and trump loyalists more likely to support him, because they would then feel that because he has

kept it this way, that an attack on him or an indictment on him, is an attack on them, the trump supporter. so you certainly can't seem to be seen as gleefully indulging in something like that from your 2024 republican rival. but at the same time, they also say, if you want to beat former president donald trump in a republican primary, you are going to have to go directly at him and take him on and take the mantle from him. it can't be like 2016, where it's a crowded field, which as of now, it could still shape up to be, and where everyone sort of thought trump would self destruct. media scrutiny would do trump, and legal scrutiny would do trump in, someone else would take trump on -- no when did. and he became the nominee. and so, again, someone like desantis can't go after him for these legal investigations, necessarily. but he is going to have to do,

at some point, more than what you outlined at the beginning of this segment, which are these veiled threats. where republican voters like about trump is that he's a fighter. and at some point, desantis or another republican hopeful is going to have to fight trump for that primary nomination. >> yeah. it sounds like there needs to be some kind of blood sport. and by the way, to your point, ashley, trump is framing this as sort of -- it needs to be a vanquishing fight, if it comes to that. i want to play some sound from him at the, where it's just in no uncertain terms that trump's positioning himself as a warrior. let's listen to him. >> in 2016, i declared, i am your voice. today, i add, i am your warrior. i am your justice. and for those who have been wronged and betrayed, i am your retribution. i am your retribution. >> i am your warrior, i am your justice, i am your voice.

i am your retribution. i mean, it seems like ron desantis is going to have to put on his gloves if he is going to take down donald trump. and i guess the question is, actually, the trump campaign has been trying to frame ron desantis as an establishment republican who spent his time trying to get social security and medicare and medicaid. and he's not really a fighter. does a desantis team know what they need to do? here is there any inclination to get in the ring? >> so far, again, what desantis has done is sort of say, for lack of a better term, scoreboard, right? he has not taken on trump directly but he is sort of very clearly said, look, i did what trump -- again, without naming trump, what he could not do -- i one. look at my margin in florida. look at some of those counties in florida, like miami-dade, that i won, and by how much, where hillary clinton beat donald trump in 2016 --

i am a winner. and so, again, he has so far shown an unwillingness to directly, as you put it, put on his gloves and take trump on as a fighter. but what a lot of these republican experts, including a number who have done focus groups and research and polling among some of these republican primary voters that someone like desantis would need to get, is that you can sort of, i, think the most effective messaging this time, in 2024, for a republic and against trump and a republican primary, is to sort of come at him a little bit from disappointment -- so, say, look, he was a good president. he did a lot of good things. he had a lot of good ideas. but he didn't complete all of his promises. he said he was going to build a wall at the children border and he didn't. he said mexico was going to pay for it and it didn't. he said he was going to win in 2020 and it didn't. and so to sort of make the argument that he was good and i

like him, his time has passed, it's time to move on to someone who has, similar to him, policy wise, but without all of that baggage and chaos and controversy that these voters found, even trump supporters, found so fatiguing and exhausting by the end. >> that sounds like an insanely difficult needle to thread. i am -- well, there's so many reasons i'm not running for the republican nomination. >> [laughter] >> we will watch, on the sidelines. ashley parker, thank you for the great reporting. thanks for the time tonight. >> thanks for having me. >> we have still more to get to this, evening including what exactly has been happening with in congress with providence running the table. plus, trump lawyer sydney powell went on fox news to accuse a voting machine company of using the election -- sounded. bonkers bunny reporting today reveals just how bonkers it actually was. actually was (dog barking) we love our pets. but we don't always love their hair.

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the winds tells me i'm a ghost. one of the major revelations that has come out of the billion dollar defamation lawsuit between the dominion voting systems and fox news is that the basis for trump of trump lawyer sydney powell's election fraud claims who is one email from a woman who believed she talked to, quote,

the wind. politics reporter will summer of the daily beast trapped tracked down that woman who sent the windy mail and got an interview. and as this woman puts it, yeah, i'm crazy. crazy like a fox. this woman, whose email was used by trump's legal team as if it was hard evidence, told the daily beast she's an artist who makes, quote, what she calls cactus, are easing glitter and crystals. which, by the way, it sounds amazing -- work and i get some? she said she got her ideas about election fraud from, quote, hidden messages she texan film and song where she hears on the radio, and that she has an elaborate theory that the cia controls the washington post, the fbi runs the new york times, and the state department runs politico and cnn. again, all of this conjured out of the wind or, perhaps more formally, thin air -- and look, i do not need to cast aspersions on this woman. she has the exact vibe of someone i would buy cactus are

from. seriously. please, send me a link. i will buy that cactus art. but what makes this woman's email important is not that she clearly had no real sources, it's that the presidents lawyer and fox news could see that, and they ran with these allegations anyway. on november 7th at 6 pm sidney powell for this wind women's email to fox news host maria bartiromo. the next day, maria bartiromo had sidney powell on her show to talk about it. and the claims that sidney powell made that day were huge. >> there has been a massive and coordinated effort to steal this election from, we the people of the united states of america, to delegitimized and destroy votes for donald trump, to manufacture a vote for joe biden. >> but it wasn't just sidney powell putting allegations from that wind email out. check this out. this is the actual wind email talking about dominion voting systems. quote, don't you find it curious that nancy pelosi's longtime chief of staff is a

key executive there? and that richard bloom, senator feinstein's husband, is a significant shareholder in that company? i want you to focus on these three key phrases -- pelosi's longtime chief of staff, key executive, and the idea that senator feinstein's husband is a, quote, significant shareholder of dominion stop. now, watch maria bartiromo on her show on fox news the day after getting that email. >> i also see reports that nancy pelosi's longtime chief of staff is a key executive at that company, richard blum, senator feinstein's husband, significant shareholder of the company -- what can you tell us about the interests on the other side of this dominion software? >> everything maria bartiromo just said was wrong. nancy pelosi's former chief of staff was not a key executive at dominion. senator diane feinstein's husband has no financial connection to dominion. a lawyer for dominion said the discovery process didn't turn up any process documents seized

by any member of maria bartiromo's staff at mentioned dominion before this segment. other than this wind email -- in maria bartiromo's own deposition, she was unable to point to any other source for sidney powell's ideas. fox has called dominion's lawsuit against them an effort to silence the press. but repeating unverified claims verbatim is not journalism. it is crazy. crazy like a fox. we have still more to come tonight. up next, house republicans are defending their slow and rough start on all those investigations they plan to pursue. stay with us. with us if you have this... consider adding this. an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare. medicare supplement plans help by paying some of what medicare doesn't... and let you see any doctor. any specialist. anywhere in the u.s. who accepts medicare patients.

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to screen for colon cancer that's effective and non-invasive. it's for people 45 plus at average risk, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider for cologuard. ♪ (group) i did it my way! ♪ >> republicans have been quite busy taking full advantage of their investigative power in the house in the short time since winning a majority. just this week the oversight committee held seven hearings on topics ranging from the origins of covid-19 to the migrant crisis at the mexican border and not exactly sure what they expect to discover here. the strategic petroleum reserve. that committee also sent a letter to the d.c. mayor on thursday announcing an investigation into whether january 6th defendants have been mistreated in d.c. jail. meanwhile, house democrats on the oversight committee this week as the republicans to join them and announcing white nationalism and white supremacy in all its forms, including the great replacement conspiracy

theory. all 20 democrats signed a letter, and all 26 republicans refused, which is, wow. and today, one day after president joe biden unveiled his 2020 for budget plan, members of the freedom caucus announced that they will only agree to a budget that flashes 131 billion dollars from current spending levels, and those cuts cannot include defense spending or entitlement programs and no tax increases, which is some real tough stuff. instead the freedom caucus is eyeing cuts to student get relief and climate change and covid funding. and adding requirements to medicaid. this comes as the house website station committee has hit a rough patch. this week we learn from the washington post the congressman jim jordan is facing criticism from the right over his lackluster performance thus far. the post reports, quote, critics of the committee has been too slow to staff up, insufficiently aggressive in issuing subpoenas for interviews in testimony, and lacking in substance. jordan defended his committees

work to the post and pointed to the number of subpoenas it has issued. but his colleague on the judiciary committee, congressman eric swalwell, had some choice words about congressman jordan, asking anyone to comply with the simply pena. >> we're going to holiness is in here today in claim they did not comply with subpoenas or requests, and that request is so rich because it's coming from a chairman who himself did not comply with the january six committee's request. so may 31, you see a letter sent to then representative jordan, asking that he honor his subpoena. he was asked over and over and over, you are witness to a crime and witness to the greatest crime ever committed with the greatest criminals ever indicted in america. will you have to country? will you comply with that subpoena? no compliance. crickets. absolute defiance of the subpoena. >> joining us now is democratic congressman eric swalwell of california.

he's of course a member of the house judiciary committee. congressman swalwell, thank you for being here, and thank you for using the term crickets in an actual testimony. i do have to ask you, and this is not a rhetorical question, do you think that jim jordan understands the hypocrisy here to issue the subpoenas when he himself did not comply with as arena in the range by the people lack of people showing up for his subpoenas? >> not at all. it is completely lost on him, alex. and in fact, the department of justice showed up and they were willing to do what he was not willing to do, and they raised the right-hand, gave testimony, cooperated. it wasn't so hard. and he, though, still remains out of compliance and not willing to honor his oath and give testimony about a crime that he witnessed. >> it's as if it's like they, it's honestly like a party white case of an leisure about

what is happening and their own behavior in congress of the last several years. i would ask you, as parts of the party want to relitigate january six with marjorie taylor greene and jim calmer are going to d.c. jail and talking about jerry six plaintiffs and getting a raw deal and otherwise looking to investigate the investigators on the january six committee. how do democrats see this attempt to re-litigate a dark, dark day in our nation's history? i understand that the truce is important, but it also seems like politically very problematic for the gop to keep bringing up january 6th. is it a gift to democrats, in a way? >> it's entirely for one person. they recognizable yves the donald trump is the leader of the party, will likely be the candidate for president. and they were walloped in the midterms because voters chose competency over chaos. and so they have to rewrite january 6th, otherwise the

voters will keep rejecting them. they don't realize that voters are never going to buy this, but by going into the majority, alex inform the largest law firm in washington d.c. and they have one client, and that's donald trump. but it's not going to work. i promise it will continue to be rejected. as donald trump becomes closer and closer to being their nominee, they will have to, again, bring themselves closer to supporting donald trump. so it's no pathway to victory for them. the best thing we can do is just remind voters what we delivered on health care, on gun safety, on infrastructure, on climate we're in the majority and contrast that with the chaos we're seeing now and that's the case for putting us back in the majority next november. >> i agree that this is for the audience of one trump, but it strikes me the some of these republicans, like jim jordan marjorie taylor greene, may legitimately believe that was an inside job daniel six, that they really are trying to get to the bottom of something.

and i just wonder, do you have any sense that there are any conversations happening with the republican conference to disabuse them of these notions? >> no. and the reason is is because the majority is so thin that kevin mccarthy may be the speaker entitle but marjorie taylor greene has the job. she is doing the job. and he can't do anything outside of what she wants to do. it's part of a corrupt bargain this track to be speaker. he's on a recurring payment plan where he has to continue to deliver for marjorie taylor greene and others. so he put her, who for the rioters on homeland security, harboring in an internationally wanted criminal indoor santos. he gave the 40,000 hours of sensitive security footage to tucker carlson because, again, it was part of the promise. these payments will continue, and they will never have an

honest conversation with himself about what american people really want or need, because this is just about kevin mccarthy staying in power and being a vessel state as a conference to the maga nation. >> i guess i wonder, would be one thing if it was all about republican entirely in kevin mccarthy and his speakership dramas and we could leave it at that. that to the matter is congress does have to do some things. i think most urgently about the debt ceiling. and the list of demands coming from the freedom caucus is, and this is a technical term, bonkers. 138 billion, i believe? no cuts to medicaid and social security, thanks to joe biden's political maneuvering around the state of the union. they basically have taken those off the table. no cuts to defense spending, no tax increases. what you're left with is a set of insane cuts to programs that are politically untouchable, not untouchable but you can't actually make. and kevin mccarthy's has to

navigate this or the country's gonna default and what happens? >> they weren't serious before, i hope they're serious now, because today 19th are just bacon and island states just collapsed and hundreds of thousands of people are not getting a paycheck. so it's time to get serious. that means paying americas bills, and not screwing around with the debt ceiling to achieve something politically that you couldn't otherwise achieved. it means keeping the government open in the fall and again, not use a government shutdown to get something you couldn't otherwise get. and globally means keeping ukraine in the fight because their fight is our fight and we know it will come to us in the fall. so these are the three things they have to do. they can let the crazy out of the pond in every other way. that's meaningless. but if they don't do those three things, there are real consequences. >> they can study the strategic petroleum reserve as long as they can actually do the business of governing. congressman eric swalwell, always good to see you, thanks for joining me. >> my pleasure. >> we'll be right back.

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