hi, everyone 4:00 in new york a court appearance today by a man who did not have sex with a porn star. a man who did not pay with his own money to silence the porn star and who did not benefit politically from the silencing of the alleged affair with a porn star. yet, this man, and, of course, we're talking about michael cohen, served prison time for his role in the stormy daniels

hush money scheme. it may very well also be a court appearance that proceeds an indictment of a former president of these united states michael cohen, donald trump's former attorney and fixer went before a grand jury in manhattan today in what may be alvin bragg's end game a years-long investigation based on hush money payments made to porn star stormy daniels payments made nearly seven years ago. here's what cohen had to say earlier today before he went in for his grand jury testimony >> this is not revenge, right? what is this is about accountability i don't want to see anyone, including donald trump, indicted, prosecuted, convicted, incarcerated, simply because i fundamentally disagree with them this is all about accountability he needs to be held accountable for his dirty deeds. >> "new york times" reports this, quote, the manhattan d.a.'s office has already questioned at least seven other people before the grand jury,

hearing evidence about the hush money deal that's according to several other people with knowledge of the inquiry, potentially making mr. cohen the last witness once he has testified, nearly every crucial player in the hush money matter will have appeared before the grand jury with the exception of the porn star herself, stormy daniels, who may not be called to testify as for the other vital player in the investigation, that would be donald trump himself, his attorney says that the ex-president is turning down alvin bragg's offer to come in and testify. he told nbc news that he and other attorneys for trump have, quote, no plans to meet with the manhattan d.a. to try to ward off charges for trump, and he is expressing confidence that bragg will ultimately decide against pressing charges but as "the new york times" reports, it would be highly unusual for a prosecutor in a high profile white collar case to go through a weeks-long

presentation of evidence and question nearly every relevant witness without intending to seek an indictment donald trump's former fixer, a man who served prison time, testifying in what may very well be the end game for the manhattan's d.a. probe into hush money payments to stormy daniels is where we begin today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. "new york times" investigations reporter bruce butner is here. he's reported on donald trump's personal finances. tim o'brien is here. he fought his own lawsuit against donald trump, knows what it's like to have donald trump under oath what a challenge that is for him. andrew weissmann is also here, former justice department prosecutor, former senior member of robert mueller's special counsel investigation. and our friend, the former senator claire mccaskill is with us tim, andrew, and claire, all msnbc contributors ross, i start with you we don't know what we don't know, right?

i mean, this is ostensibly an investigation that in these final s days has at its center h hush money payments, but just take me through what that scope of inquiry looks like, as far as newness. >> well, i think what we know so far is the fact pattern is very well established that stormy daniels had some interaction with donald trump in lake tahoe, she says it was affair, he says it wasn't. at some point, she approached him, there was some meeting of the minds, and there was an agreement made that apparently, according to michael cohen, she would receive $130,000 to sort of keep this whole matter quiet. and michael cohen then paid that money personally and donald trump, according to him, reimbursed him for that money. but you're right, nicolle, the big part of this is what we don't know we don't know what the other

witnesses in this grand jury investigation have told the grand jury we don't know if there's been other people, david pecker, the former ceo of "the national inquirer" has apparently been to the grand jury, that he had conversations about what his mind-set in this whole thing was. there have been a couple of financial people from the trump organization that have been in did they talk to michael cohen, did they talk to donald trump? has there been things to substantiate what michael cohen said and things to go to donald trump's mind-set and motivation for pursuing all of this >> andrew weissmann, michael cohen has been written about so extensively, he's been covered because he's such a unique figure he is really the one person who was deep inside donald trump's misdeeds, and he is the person, according to rudy giuliani, who

was the pass through for the hush money payments. this is the crime for which trump's closest attorney, rudy giuliani, has already confessed on fox news, so, the facts of this are not in question they've been established over and over and over again. so, i wonder -- and i want to show you some of cohen's public testimony again, delivered under oath to congress, and despite his interfaces with law enforcement, none of this congressional testimony that i'm about to play has ever been called into question i want you to take us through the crimes that are under scrutiny by this grand jury. let me play this first and then we'll have that conversation >> in 2016, prior to the ele election, i was contacted by keith davidson, who is the attorney, or was the attorney, for miss clifford, stormy daniels, and after several rounds of conversations with him

about purchasing her life rights for $130,000, what i did, each and every time, is go straight into mr. trump's office and discuss the issue with him when it was ultimately determined, this was days before the election, that mr. trump was going to pay the $130,000, in the office with me was allen weisselberg, the chief financial officer of the trump organization, he acknowledged to allen that he was going to pay the 130,000, and that allen and i should go back to his office and figure out how to do it. >> so, cohen in testimony, again, that has never been called into question, what i just played, goes into trump's office and directs -- trump directs cohen and weisselberg,

quote, how to figure out how to do it and rudy admits that it would be a pass-through, and the business records say that is something totally different. tell me which of those steps are potential crimes >> sure. so, let's start with the federal crime that michael cohen pleaded guilty to, and it's one of several crimes he pleaded guilty to, but it was basically campaign fraud the idea was that the $130,000 was really being used as part of the campaign war chest, because it was helping donald trump win the election by keeping the derogatory information out of the public sphere. but we know that bill barr put a stop to that -- the case that could go forward as to the former president, saying, you know, it's fine that michael cohen plead guilty to it, though he actually wanted that to be

resc rescinded, but we're not going further, and it was never picked up by merrick garland. so, that's why you have this state case into the same set of facts, and the simplest crime is one that is simply filing a false business record. and so, the scheme that was dur that came up to pay the $130,000 was to have it masquerade as legal fees and that's going to be really strong evidence, because there was no legal work being done by michael cohen, there was no reason to have these retainers month after month, and so, that will be a very strong part of the case the problem is, that's a misdemeanor under new york law and so, the thing that we don't know is the way in which that must demeanor can be elevated to a felony, and under new york law, the way it can be elevated is if you commit that misdemeanor to further or to cover up another crime, whether that other crime is a felony or

a misdemeanor, then the false business record charge is no longer a misdemeanor, it is a felony, meaning, if you do the misdemeanor to help promote another crime, it's more serious. what we don't know is exactly how alvin bragg is thinking about what he would charge probably some form of either a federal and/or state election crime. and nicolle, i just wanted to read one thing, because i think there is -- >> please. >> "new york times" reporting that is slightly different, that suggests that this may be much more imminent than i thought "the new york times" reported that the trump lawyers have actually already gone in to try to dissuade the prosecutors from testifying and he said that he went in and susan necklace, who is a very well-regarded defense lawyer, she was one of the lawyers who represented the trump organization in the october trial, if that is

correct reporting, that suggests to me that with michael cohen going in and the defense lawyers having been given their shot at dissuading alvin bragg, this could be any day now because that's -- those are the two things that i would expect to be the very last things that happen michael cohen going in, because they obviously knew in the d.a.'s office that if he went into the grand jury, it would be made public, because michael cohen is not shy about speaking, and then the final piece is, you do want to give defense counsel an opportunity and i've always been waiting to hear that that happened. so, if this reporting is true, there really is no other step left other than the final decision by alvin bragg. >> so, let me just stay with you on this, andrew weissmann, two followups here one, cohen going in 20 times, we all know cohen, you perhaps best

of all of us, i know him, he's a familiar face here and on other net, whos. it seems that alvin bragg decided it was worth the investment in corroboration and prep, because both have happened and seeing kelly anne conway and hope hicks go before the grand jury last week and seeing the preparation that's been reported, he was in for prep all day friday, i understand that he was in 12:30 today, an hour and a half before, some last-minute prep, we don't know for sure but alvin bragg seemed to have decided that what he testified all those-year-olds years ago could be corroborated. and i wonder if those are logical dots to connect, based on hicks and conway going in and the 20 sessions with bragg's office and cohen >> yeah, absolutely. you have it dead right you know, i very often here

anchors say that they're not lawyers, but i feel like i'm talking to a lawyer, because that's exactly what you would do with somebody like michael cohen. you know, these are prosecutors who are used to putting on difficult witnesses, you know, who is going to be doing this kind of scheme a criminal so, the main thing that they have to focus on is making sure that every single thing that he is going to tell that grand jury is truthful. they have got to have said repeatedly to him that the worst possible thing he could do is not own up to any bad act he has committed. even if it's very embarrassing and then the second piece is, you corroborate, you know, up one side and down the other, you have to croporroborate him, becs he is going to be attacked very, very hard, and frankly, for good reason, that's what defense lawyers are supposed to do at a trial, and so, they're going to corroborate him and, you know that's the piece that we don't know is exactly how, you know,

what are the pieces that kellyanne conway gives, hope hicks gives, mr. pecker, all sorts of people, you want to know, are they going to be inconsistent or consistent, so they can go to the jury and say, look, his story makes sense, but you don't have to just believe him. there are lots and lots of other witnesses. and i find that michael cohen, in the clip that he played, saying that something happened and that allen weisselberg was there, that is the ring of truth about it, because, you know, allen weisselberg could hop on the stand and say, i don't know what he was talking about, i wasn't at the meeting, i don't know him so, the more detailed that michael cohen is, the more he talks about who exactly was in the room, it gives it the ring of truth >> claire, i'm glad that andrew brings up that this has all been investigated before. it was investigated by the much ballyhooed sdny, southern district of new york

and this is what they found. here's a little viewer's code, individual one was donald trump. quote, during the campaign, michael cohen played a central role in two similar schemes to purchase the rights to zstories, each from women who claimed to have had an affair with individual one, donald trump, so as to is up press the stories and thereby prevent them from influencing the election with respect to both payments, cohen acted with the intent to influence the 2016 presidential election michael cohen coordinated his actions with one or more members of the campaign, including through meetings and phone calls about the fact, nature, and timing of the payments in particular, as cohen himself has now admitted with respect to both payments, he acted in coordination with and at the direction of individual one. the federal government, through its highly regarded sdny, southern district of new york office of prosecutors found that

donald trump coordinated and directed cohen to pay hush money payments to two women to, quote, prevent them from influencing the election it is an open -- i mean, i believe politicians have been charged with campaign finance violations with facts far more in dispute than the ones i just read you, as put to paper and ink by sdny. where do you believe this open and shut case sits when it comes to donald trump? >> well, this is tricky. and the reason it's tricky is because the federal government chose not to act merrick garland chose not to pick this case up. the reason it's tricky is, you have a state prosecutor who has a charge that can become a felony if he proves an underlying effort to cover a crime. the weird thing is, you're going to have a state prosecutor actually talking about a federal crime, because campaign finance

violations for a presidential candidate are not handled at the state level. they're handled at the federal level. they are federal crimes. so, that's why there's so many legal experts saying this is a little tricky for bragg, because he's going to try to hang his hat to get a felony on perhaps a state crime, which you then say, well, wait a minute, it was a federal race, and if he tries to hang it on a federal race, that frankly i'm not sure, andrew might know, i'm not aware that typically ever being done. if it's a crime like this, the felts want it and they take it and they prosecute it. and all of this, i think we need to remember, and i'm weary of saying it, this happened six years ago. it's not like we didn't know what was going on at the time. we all knew what was going on. michael cohen plead guilty eons ago, went to prison. and so, the idea that there's

this -- i get it, that it's hard to convict somebody who has a huge number of people in the country that believe his lies, i get that, because criminal verdicts have to be unanimous, but the law is either going to apply to everybody or it's not, and six years is a really long time >> yeah, i mean, tim, i guess -- i don't get it i don't get -- let me read this again, because i forgot how black and white this was at the time during the campaign, michael cohen played a central role in two similar schemes to purchase the rights to stories each from women who claimed to have had an affair with individual one, donald trump as to suppress the stories and thereby prevent them from influencing the election with respect to both payments, michael cohen acted with the intent to influence the 2016 presidential election. cohen coordinated his actions with one or more members of the campaign, including through meetings and phone calls about the fact, nature of the payments in particular, as cohen himself

has now admitted, with respect to both payments, he acted in coordination with and at the direction of individual one, donald trump the federal government investigated and already found that michael cohen coordinated his actions with one or more members of the campaign, maybe that's kellyanne and hope hicks. but the feds are the ones that created the playbook to prosecuting donald trump for these crimes >> well, i think, you know, i think the feds had to line up with they felt were their best cases, and i think they chose not to elevate this particular case but in terms of corroboration, you know, one of the things that has fallen out of some of the analysis is that there is also a tape michael cohen either turned on his iphone in an office with donald trump or he wore a wire, i think he just had his phone on, but in that recording, he is discussing these payments with

trump, and trump is heard on this tape saying to michael cohen, go discuss that with allen, in reference to allen weisselberg, the cfo so, the corroboration, this isn't only hearsay they have trump on tape asking someone to commit a crime. and nothing of substance went on in the trump organization at all that involved money that donald trump didn't sign off on if the sums were significant or the consequences were significant. the other thing, in terms of the motivation is, i don't think he was only worried about his campaign potentially getting blown up i think he was also worried about his marriage getting blown up donald trump has a long history of cheating on his wives and i think he probably -- he probably was more afraid at that point of melania trump than he was of the electorate, so, he had a motivation to try to get this out of the way. i think the larger issue here

is, what are we expecting to get out of this particular case? and i think all of the lawsuits targeting trump that are in play right now, his critics, i would include myself among them, hope that trump is brought to some sort of justice before 2024. i don't know that this case is going to satisfy anybody who is tired of donald trump spending years avoiding the rule of law i think there's a standard here in which he should be held to the same standards as everybody else the supreme court has said that already in his tax cases but i think in the larger sphere of things that are staring at him, that represent existential threats, i don't think this one is the tallest order i think it's important that alvin bragg see it through, i think it's important that trump be held accountable around the law, but i don't think the doj, i think, sees this particular case, as the neediest thing they

can lay at his feet. >> russ, i want to ask you one sort of loose end in terms of the reporting that "the new york times" and nbc has, and tim, i take your point, i think those are good sort of pillars to lay down on this monday of what could be an extraordinary week so, here's what we have, here's what we know and we don't know, as andrew said, we don't know who goes into a grand jury unless the witnesses or their attorneys make it known. bragg's office doesn't make it known. so, well know kellyanne conway, hope hicks, jeffrey mcconney, david pecker, the former publisher of "the national inquirer," we know dylan howard, the former "national inquirer" top editor who had been on the other end of this, keith davidson, who was one of stormy daniels' lawyers, has gone in. we don't know what, if anything, allen weisselberg said about this case, do we have that right? >> i think that's right. i'm not sure we know what any of

those people have said and the substance of it, but we do know that allen weisselberg maybe more than anyone else would feel the pinch to not be caught in a perjury problem, to not get himself in further trouble, and would feel sort of motivated to be, i think, forthcoming, where he maybe hasn't been before. he's obviously cooling his heels in a jail right now. and that has a way of sort of shaking the truth loose from people >> yeah, at least not getting yourself in more trouble, you would imagine, to be his mind-set all right, we need all of you to stick around this conversation has lead us to what could be an incredibly consequential week for the country and the twice impeached ex-president in terms of his broader set of legal challenges, shall we say when we come back, news of a georgia lawyer sitting down with the fulton county grand jury could key us in on where that investigation into trump's alleged election meddling is heading. plus, we'll turn to the silicon valley bank collapse and

who, or rather what, republicans are blaming for the bank's demise why they're saying that bank ran into so much trouble. and later in the show, former vice president mike pence with one of the sharpest rebukes to date of his ex-boss and the january 6th insurrection you know what he hasn't done yet? spoken to the prosecutors investigating the january 6th insurrection that had as its mission statement, quote, hang mike pence hasn't answered a subpoena about that not exactly a profile in courage as we meet today we'll talk about that and more when "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhe ertoday.

when it comes to reducing sugar in your family's diet, the more choices, the better. that's why america's beverage companies are working together to deliver more great tasting options with less sugar or no sugar at all. in fact, today, nearly 60% of beverages sold contain zero sugar. different sizes? check. clear calorie labels? just check. with so many options, it's easier than ever to find the balance

that's right for you. more choices. less sugar. balanceus.org

the number of underaged individuals who are allowed to register contrary to the statutory authority amounts allegedly up to approximately 66,000 people. >> your secretary of state's office last night and today said this was the cleanest election in history, or the purest election in history, he must be living on some other planet. >> all those need to be tossed you can't rely on them this plan regarding this voter fraud at state farm arena was deliberately planned many weeks before this election. >> and that imperialist attitude, if not corrected by this body, this senate and this house, will lead to tyranny. >> he looks like he's going to cry, doesn't he? so, we'll use bill barr to truth check all three of those gentlemen. it's all but bleep, right?

gnu of that was true but that went on for three painful sessions, three painful lengthy hearings in front of the georgia state senate pro-trump lawyers, weeks after the 2020 election, laying out this bull bleep, all these hollow, bogus claims about fraud, what did he say, 66,000 underage people? trump only needed 11,000 but the likes of john eastman and rudy giuliani, that last guy we showed here, he's a much lesser known lawyer, but at one point even compared the so-called scheme to pearl harbor he has a name and it's robert chile. and we know today, thanks to brand new reporting in "the new york times" he was among the witnesses questioned last year by the special grand jury in georgia. "new york times" reports that the revelation of his testimony, quote, adds to the evidence that although the atlanta investigation has focused on trump's biggest areas of legal exposure, the calls he made to

pressure local officials and his involvement in a scheme to draft bogus presidential electors, the false claims made by his allies at legislative hearings have also been of significant interest russ, tim, andrew, and claire are back with us andrew weissmann, i head this fantastic reporting in "the new york times" and just -- there's more that we don't know than there is that we do know investigations are done on purpose to protect the people under scrutiny secretly. and because there is now a pat earn of how trump acts when he's under investigation, we're used to knowing a fuller picture, but i think this reporting reveals that we don't know the scope of any of these probes. is that how you see it >> yeah, totally especially because we're getting into the intricacies of what was happening at the state level and there's sort of back office-type communications and one thing that's clear from the clip that you just played is, we know this special grand

jury it's not the grand jury that will decide whether to indict or not. but we know the special grand jury did not believe that. because in the report, you know, the partial report that is made public, it was unanimous that the special grand jury said there was no fraud that changed the vote in georgia. so, they by definition, if they heard that, they obviously did not believe it that doesn't mean that they found that he also lied, but given what he's saying, the sort of natural followup is, where's the beef like, where's the actual evidence and you would say that to him, you would say that to giuliani, to anyone who is trying to get them to change how they recorded the votes. you're going to be like, well, what's -- what are the facts, given that 60 courts said no what proof do you have this is not -- this is something where you don't just get to have an opinion about what happened, you actually have to prove it up

so, he may be in a lot of hot water with the ultimate grand jury that will decide whether there should be obstruction charges, you know, false statement charges, and the like. >> claire, the insurrection draws so much of our attention for a lot of reasons, the horrific scene of seeing the u.s. capitol under siege for hours and hours and hours, the desecration of the building, the lives lost in the days after among our law enforcement, and what they describe as medieval combat that took place in front of our eyes for hours and hours on that day between law enforcement officials and trump supporters that said, the coup plot in the state was where it was all happening, i mean, that was trump's play and covid was raging and i remember trump calling and inviting all sorts of state officials into the oval office in the middle of covid, and we know how he felt about masks and i -- i feel like if jack

smith is headed in this direction, what is revealed at the end of this about the state-by-state overthrowing of election results is the piece most opaque to us from the outside. >> it is and i think it is also frankly hard for those of us who have actually appeared in a courtroom and who took oaths to a certain integrity and conduct as lawyers, to hear these guys say this stuff in front of the state senate you know, this guy's a real lawyer this guy, he's actually taken real cases in front of juries against corporations successfully he understands the ethical rules of a lawyer and the idea that he would think it's somehow not illegal, the inconvenient truth n

for all these jokers is that under certain circumstances, lying is a crime and this didn't seem to sink in, especially with some of these soldiers, these clown car of lawyers that showed up trump lies like most people brush their teeth, and so everybody thought, well, the gang's all here, i guess we can all lie and get away with it but it is stunning to me that a real lawyer would do this in such incredible ignorance and cynicism about a lawyer having to tell the truth, especially in front of a legislative body. >> yeah, i mean, tim, you've had trump and his organization, whether they were in business, i use that term loosely, television, campaigns, and politics, the through line is the lack of ethics and the lack of ethical people around him >> i think he hand-picks those

kinds of people. you know, donald trump is not sophisticated, he's not particularly smart, but he's a survivor, and he understands st street-level survival. roy cone provided him a blueprint for how trump understood a lot of work you weaponized it in your favor. when you look at the number of lawyers involved in all of these actions, you could say that of them, but i think he identified that when they first came into his orbit as corruptible, sidney powell, rudy giuliani, you could go on and on even to a certain extent, not to a certain extent, absolutely bill barr. where bill barr used the powers

of the attorney general's office on numerous occasions. and this is just part and parcel with donald trump in terms of how he's rolled for decades. i think the larger lesson to be drawn from it is how easily corruptible certain people are who exist with him, and how ready they are to do what he wants them to do and i think in all of these cases, one of the things i think prosecutors have to be looking at, and one of the things i hope becomes clear, if these go to trial, is that trump is not an innocent bystander these people aren't telling him what to do, per se, he's the architect. whether it's telling michael cohen to pay hush money or telling his attorneys in georgia to prevent the vote.

in every one of these cases, he is the orchestrator, and the architect of this effort to essentially torch the constitution >> and russ, the place where all of that was test run was in his businesses, and the extraordinary reporting that you and your colleagues have done on his years of not paying much in taxes is the same story, the echo is, he walks, he straddles the line with this rep till yan survival sense of trying to stay on the side of which is legal enough to not be scrutinized but he, again, is likely crossing it and under testimony in front of the house that cohen says he inflated his as sets in certain instances and deflated them in others and trump brags about it you know, you're stupid if you pay taxes, you're a sucker, you're a fool. it became part of his political brand, that it was certainly all

beta tested, if you will, as a sort of mildly successful in terms of the real estate world, businessman in new york city >> you know, i think that's right. and i think also, one trait you see throughout his career in business is that he thinks attorney/client privilege is absolute and all encompassing, and i think those are the people throughout his life, eincluding michael cohen, that he's spoken most freely around so, i'd be interested to hear andrew and claire talk about this, but i think that's a nightmare scenario for him, if you have two or three lawyers whole he has opened his heart to, told what he really thinks, and tried to motivate them to do things that were pushing the bounds of their profession, if those people somehow get pinched on a perjury charge or even threatened with that, and their attorney/client privilege is found to be not sustainable because it was -- there was something done in a crime.

that's a really bad scenario for him. and it's obviously much more serious in the criminal realm than it is in the civil realm. donald trump has spent his life pushing the bounds in civil realm. there's a law in new york state that was created largely in response to his filing of frivolous lawsuits over the years and pursuing frivolous actions even within legitimate lawsuits going back 50 years so, that's a different kind of issue that you can counter in a civil court than you do in a criminal court the stakes get much higher, everything sort of tends to build on -- one thing builds on another and he could find himself in a jam if these people that he's really confided in suddenly are told they have toll bare the secrets >> andrew, i have to come back to you, because that's exactly where jack smith is today. we know his attorneys have been before jack smith's grand jury investigating mar-a-lago and other potential crimes emanating from the attempt to overthrow the election results of 2020

there are no new trump stories he does the same thing over and over again maybe because -- >> yeah, so, one thing that's really interesting is, because we're talking about the manhattan case and talking about michael cohen being a key, central witness to what happened a lawyer on this mueller investigation, don mcgahn came in and told us, essentially, hey, he told me to lie. sa and i was not willing to do it i was not willing to write down that he didn't do something that he did do and write an affidavit to that effect i think what jack smith is doing is basically saying, you know what, attorney/client privilege does not work when you seek to have your lawyer commit the crime. and so, he is trying to pierce through that, there's really good precedent for that, that is, as claire knows, i know that it's not the law that you can protect attorney/client privilege in those circumstances, and you can see

cork pat cipollone, pat philbin, a whole series of personal and white house lawyers really having incredibly damning evidence for the exact reason that he thinks they're going to be able to go along and help him commit these crimes that certainly was the reputation of roy kohn, that he did that, and michael cohen, in fact, went along with it and paid a price for it and so, i think that is going to be some of the really key evidence that we see at play in these cases, as they're brought. >> there are not four better people to talk to at the beginning of this week russ, tim, andrew, thank you so much for starting us off claire will be back a little later. up next for us, the latest republican excuse structure, the party that supposedly likes to see itself as one with wall street, is now blaming the failure of silicon valley bank on, wait for it, woke ens.

that's right two smart friends of the show will join us to explain what that means and why it makes absolutely no sense, even for them don't go anywhere. my mental health was much better, but i struggled with uncontrollable movements called td, tardive dyskinesia. td can be caused by some mental health meds. and it's unlikely to improve without treatment. i felt like my movements were in the spotlight. ingrezza is a prescription medicine to treat adults with td movements. ingrezza is different. it's the simple, once-daily treatment proven to reduce td that's #1 prescribed. people taking ingrezza can stay on their current dose of most mental health meds. ingrezza 80 mg is proven to reduce td movements in 7 out of 10 people. don't take ingrezza if you're allergic to any of its ingredients. ingrezza may cause serious side effects,

including sleepiness. don't drive, operate heavy machinery, or do other dangerous activities until you know how ingrezza affects you. other serious side effects include potential heart rhythm problems and abnormal movements. it's nice people focus more on me. ask your doctor about #1 prescribed, once-daily ingrezza. learn how you could pay as little as zero dollars at ingrezza.com ♪ ingrezza ♪

we planned well for retirement, but i wish we had more cash. you think those two have any idea? that they can sell their life insurance policy for cash? so they're basically sitting on a goldmine? i don't think they have a clue. that's crazy! well, not everyone knows coventry's helped thousands of people sell their policies for cash. even term policies. i can't believe they're just sitting up there! sitting on all this cash. if you own a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more, you can sell all or part of it to coventry. even a term policy. for cash, or a combination of cash and coverage, with no future premiums. someone needs to tell them, that they're sitting on a goldmine, and you have no idea! hey, guys! you're sitting on a goldmine! come on, guys! do you hear that? i don't hear anything anymore. find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the

number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. ♪ i like to move it, move it ♪ ♪ you like to... move it ♪ we're reinventing our network. ♪ ♪ ♪ fast. reliable. perfectly orchestrated. the united states postal service. look, the bottom line is this, americans can rest assured that our banking system is safe. your deposits are safe let me also assure you, we will not stop at this we will do whatever is needed. >> president joe biden earlier today reassuring americans after

two banks failed in recent days, regulators taking the extraordinary step of ensuring that all deposits in those two failed banks, it's the silicon valley bank and signature bank, were available as of this morning, to prevent further backic and economic fallout. the reason behind each of these failures are different and complicated. the trump era rollback of postfinancial crisis regulations seems to be at least partly or largely responsible. unless you ask some prominent players on the far right, who have a familiar boogeyman in mind >> we see now coming out that they were one of the most woke banks in their quest for the esg-type policy and investing. >> we know guys at svb were not capable bankers. didn't seem a lot of time banking or paying close attention, because they had videos to make about dynamic pioneering, glass ceiling

shattering women >> this bank, they are so concerned with dei and politics and all kinds of stuff, i think that really diverted from them focusing on their core mission i also look at it and say, we have such a moras of federal regulations. >> i wouldn't trust those guys with my allowance. the anti-woke ex-president signed the bill to roll back the regulations in the first place here with us, my friend, who i stopped in the halls to explain all this to me two hours ago, stephanie rhule is here, and david gur is here. he will not play anything beautiful on us, for us, on our show, he only does that for you, steph. >> ask for the fiddle and he'll bring it >> i came in with my hair dripping wet, i don't understand this story, whether you can or cannot be a -- a woke bank is called a charity >> it's absolute stupidity

and the reason it's so insulting is that all of the people claiming this know better, right? there's an op-ed in "the wall street journal" today saying they were so focused on having diverse people on their board, women, a black person, two veterans, i'm not saying if they only had white guys they would have avoided this, but they were distracted i'm sorry. last i checked, when the financial crisis hit, who ran investment banks in this country? a myriad of white guys it's the most ridiculous argument ever, and it's an insult to republican voters. especially wall street republicans voters, which last i checked, ron desantis just brought a big money bag down to palm beach and collected big checks who know what nonsense this is. >> so, what really happened? >> long story short, you've got this bank, svb, that was a traditional silicon valley bank that really just did business with startups, with tech firms, and before covid, about $40 billion --

>> people there, too >> yeah, but it was like the hot bank in the valley if you were a startup, it was cool to do business with them. fast forward, covid hits remember, the tech boom, everyone is investing in tech. they got tons of new business. they ended up with almost $200 billion, and what did they do with it? they made a horrible move. they didn't have a chief risk officer for part of the time and they invested in treasuries and mortgage-backed securities, just before interest rates went up interest rates go up, the value -- >> they made a bad bet >> really bad bet. dumb bet having nothing to do with wokeness fast forward, they have a whole, they're like, what are we going to do? they decide to go out and sell securities at a loss the market finds out and the market gets totally spooked. low and behold, tons of their depositors pull out $40 billion overnight. when that starts to happen, panic begets panic there was a run on the bank and they had to shut it down the biden administration came in over the weekend and back

stopped it >> david, one of the things that happens is people that don't understand these things have to fill the void of their own lack of understanding with ridiculous political platitudes is that the total here i mean, is that all that's going on, or what do you see in sort of the political reception of this news? >> yeah, it was wild to see the weapon of wokery deployed by three white men in a row talking about what happened with this bank as they see it, but stephanie well knows, banks across this country are focused on esg issues, environmental issues and social issues i remember being at bank of america talking to the former vice chairwoman there about how much money there is to be made in this sector it's a business calculation, yes, america talking there about how much money tis to be made in the sector yes, there are moral reasons to invest in coys that do work on environmental and social

reasons, but capital reasons as well so what they say is a total lack of understanding of what happened here. receive stefphanie is right. they got over their skis they were chasing yield. and tech was taking off, money was sloshing through this back, it had a lot that it had to park somewhere. and at that time interest rates were really low and it seemed sensible to put that money in what are historically some of the safest assets in the world, the low interest bonds but it has nothing to do with the social inclinations or what the leadership of that bank thought about social issues or environmental issues it was simply a bad mistake on the part of the leadership of that bank that has since been removed. >> and what is the most galling, and this was somebody else's line, not mine there is no atheist in the foxhole and no libertarians in a financial crisis so a lot of these well known

libertarian-like businesspeople who are anti-regulation, get big government out, let business be business, as soon as this happened, they are getting in line saying government, come out and help me. so it is more like pick a lane if you want to be pro regulation, you will have to pay for it >> that would suggest some sort of intellectual consistency. i want to ask you about people who have their savings there or their investments. so you will be here on the other side to explain it to us

we really had our hands full with our two-year-old. so naturally, we doubled down with a new puppy. thankfully, we also have tide ultra-oxi with odor eliminators. between stains and odors, it can handle double trouble. for the #1 stain fighter and odor remover, it's got to be tide. (pensive music) (footsteps crunching) (pensive music) (birds tweeting) (pensive music) (broom sweeping) - [narrator] one in five children worldwide are faced with the reality of living without food. no family dinners, no special treats, no full bellies. all around the world, parents are struggling to feed their children. toddlers are suffering from acute malnutrition, which stunts their growth. kids are forced to drop out of school

so they can help support their families. covid, conflict, inflation and climate have ignited the worst famine in our lifetime. and we're fed up. fed up with the fact that hunger robs children of their childhood. fed up with the lack of progress. fed up with the injustice. help us brighten the lives of children all over the world by visiting getfedupnow.org. for as little as $10 a month, you can join save the children as we support children and families in desperate need of our help. now is the time to get fed up and give back. when you join the cause, your $10 monthly donation can help communities in need of life-saving treatments and nutrients, prevent children from dropping out of school. support our work with communities and governments to help children go from short-term surviving to long-term thriving. and now thanks to special government grants, every dollar you give before december 31st

can multiply up to 10 times the impact. that means more food, water, medicine and help for kids around the world. you'll also receive a free tote bag to share your support for children in need. childhood without food is unimaginable. get fed up. call us now or visit getfedupnow.org today. research shows people remember ads with a catchy song. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's a little number you'll never forget. did you know that liberty mutual custo— ♪ liberty mutual. ♪ ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ ♪ custom home insurance created for you all. ♪ ♪ now the song is done ♪ ♪ back to living in your wall. ♪ they're just gonna live in there? ♪ yes. ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

and so david, what should people do if they have their investments there or their savings there and they are scared or not in those banks but scared that this whole thing from 2008 is happening again >> people that had money at these two banks, they are fine the emergency action that we saw last night from the federal reserve, the fdic and treasury department is going to make good on all of those deposits they don't have to worry about anything what we've seen today are declines in stocks of over regional banks kind of like these two and i think that a bit worrisome. we saw this run at silicon valley, it is driven by sentiment and emotion. and when you have a bank run that is started, it is hard to contain the level of emotion so there is fear that is going beyond those banks and i want to be clear there is no evidence that there are any other banks that as in as bad shape that these two were.

and the administration will make sure that there aren't problems. but i think that there is still a lot of pervasive fear. people are worried what is important to remember, fdic guarantees that the insurance of $250,000 is in place. ensuring all of these deposits mean, for people who have less than that, they are pretty much safe and they have to weather it >> and people forget, but separate from the bailout that the administration just did for silicon valley bank, up to 250 grand in any of these fdic insured banks and wherever you are banking at home, 250 grand, average american has less than $5,000 in their account. and if you are rolling with 300 grand in your checking account, call me, let's go out to dinner. but it is not realistic. you're paying. >> most people have in the bank,

it is all insured and you think this is a contained situation to these two banks unless people freak out. >> unless they freak out but panic begets panic they will want to move their money to a big bank. and the administration is trying to calm that, they said we protected this bank and we'll protect others as well >> we'll need of two of you as this goes on you're the best. thank you so much. switching gears for us, mike pence who remains as of this hour unwilling to testify before the u.s. justice department out the events of january 6 had a lot of things to say at a fancy party this weekend we'll tell you about it. to living the dream. now, where were we? [ cheering ] i think i'm ready for this. now, where were we? heck ya! with e*trade you're ready for anything. marriage. kids. college. kids moving back in after college. ♪ finally we can eat.

♪ you know you make me wanna...♪ and then we looked around and said, wait a minute, this isn't even our stroller! (laughing) you live with your parents, but you own a house in the metaverse? mhm. cool...i don't get it. here's to getting financially ready for anything! and here's to being single and ready to mingle. who's ready to cha-cha?! ♪ yeah, yeah ♪ wayfair has deals so big that you might get a big head. because with savings so real... you can get your dream sofa for half the price. wayfair. it's always a big deal. ♪ wayfair, you've got just what i need ♪ oh! it's daylight saving time. what's the big deal? gasp! what's the big deal? what's the big deal? what's the big deal? what's the big deal? ♪marching band music♪ ♪marching band music♪ i'll get a cart. get two! scotts daylawn saving is

the biggest deal of the year. stock up early and save up to $20 dollars on the best scotts products. introducing new sweet and savory crepes. for a limited time, buy one, get one free. with five flavors that are delicious any time of day. only from ihop. download the app and earn free food with every order. >> tech: when you have auto glass damage, trust safelite. download the app and earn we'll replace your windshield, and recalibrate your advanced safety system. so automatic emergency braking and lane departure warning work properly. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

editors can turn 44,000 hours of violent insurrection footage into a respectful sight seeing tour of the capitol their work is underappreciated >> that point i agree. hi again, everyone it is 5:00 in new york very timely and funny and appropriate joke at last night's academy awards of course referring to kevin mccarthy giving fox news' top anchor thousands and thousands of hours of security footage of the u.s. capitol on january 6 that anchor tucker carlson then down played the violent storming of the u.s. capitol and efforts to overrun the government by the former president's supporters.

jimmy kimmel's comment demonstrating how carlson's airing of cherrypicked footage is an affront to the truth and issue that transcends politics what is so harmful about tucker carlson's presentation was what kimmel described there, the editing to show just a teeny nonrepresentative section of footage not preventing anything close to the full picture of what was happening that day. because as prosecutors in the trial noted in a brand new court filing, the full context of what these rioters were doing that day is necessary regarding carlson's footage of the qanon shaman, prosecutors say he aired footage only a four minute footage near the end.

and in sum, he was not some passive chaperoned observer of events for the roughly hour that he was unlawfully inside the capitol. he was part of the initial breach of the building he confronted law enforcement for roughly 30 minutes just outside the senate chamber he gained access to the gallery the senate along with other members of the mob and he gained access too and later left the senate floor only after law enforcement was able to arrive en masse to remove him tucker carlson's selective edit e ing of only certain clips to show just one as ppect of the t year long republican-led attempt to white wash the violence of that day it is an effort that even high pressure shot down over the weekend at the annual gridiron club dinner in washington, d.c from the "new york times" reporting on that, tourists don't injure 140 police officers by sight seeing, mr. pence said. an implicit rebuke of the fox

news host tucker carlson and other conservatives who have use the selective security camera footage to reframe the riot as a largely peaceful demonstration tourists don't break down doors to get to the speaker of the house or voice threats against public officials and pence made his reprimand of trump personal when he said president trump was wrong, i had no right to overturn the election his reckless words endangered my family and everyone at the capitol that day and i know that history will hold donald trump accountable. stronger words from the former vice president, but he is still unwilling, objecting to testifying on behalf of doj in its probe into the events of january 6. pence is right now as we come on the air fighting his subpoena from special counsel jack smith. and that is where we begin the hour joining our coverage, madeline dean of pennsylvania, a member

of the house judiciary and foreign affairs committees and also frank figliuzzi, former assistant director for counterintelligence, and claire mccaskill is back. congresswoman, we do not reward participation trophies on this program. and for participating in the facts as they exist on planet earth, i guess it is good in this version of the republican party, but we don't need history to judge trump if pence participates, you do actually have a jury do that w do you make of his tortured attempt to straddle the truth? >> sadly very much too little and quite late i have been wondering all along why the former vice president wouldn't have come forward full throatedly publicly to say those things and much, much more imagine that he has been, a, fighting the subpoena, i don't

know why he wouldn't say i want to tell you everything i know so it never happens again, our democracy is at risk, and, b, why is he coming forward now and really quite timidly in a private closed fancy dinner. why is the vice president coming forward now. american democracy is at risk. it was at risk before january 6, it is at risk today. and i call upon everyone who knows anything about january 6 to come forward. >> i want to be honest with all of you, i wasn't sure what to do with the pence speech. i wasn't sure whether to cover it at all because it is so incremental that it makes me mad. and i don't want to recognize anyone for simply telling the truth even if that someone was the intended target. the mission statement of the insurrection was to, quote, hang mike pence but i want to focus in on what he said.

pence says tourists don't injure 140 police officers by sight seeing so if you are before a grand jury, say you lose as most people think that he is going to do his subpoena fight, how did 140 police officers get injured? he sends them do something violent. it seems like the little lag, and i'm sure if that is a gross thought, but he clearly believes that donald trump incited a violent and deadly insurrection that injured 140 police officers and endangered his own life and that of his family once he loses his subpoena fight, he might actually be useful for jack smith, frank >> yeah, my thinking around this grand jury situation is that pence needs to be subpoenaed this order to hold that piece of pip paper up and tell whatever his constituency is these days i

had to do this and then i think that he ultimately will let it out but he needs that piece of paper to hold up to say i tried to fight this, i tried do the right thing and then he will protect his rear end by telling the truthjammed up on lying to a grand jury what he did at the gridirontends he miffed at trump, it is what he learned by the master of trying to have it both ways. it was trump who all along his tenure has been to have it both ways we embrace democracy, for example, but we minimize what happened on january 6. we love a free and he open society, but we embrace viktor orban in hungary as a model of government we love rule and order, but not when the law is coming after us. it is i have to have this both ways to survive.

why has pence suddenly grown a spine right now at least this weekend? the wind is blowing against trump in the form of potential indictments. he sees this coming. he is thinking maybe i need to get in this kind of counter trump movement because the guy is going to get indicted that could change next week if it looks like indictments aren't going to happen. >> claire, the what of this is important too. what the gridiron is, i've been once, is a gathering of the most promise nent journalists in america. a lot of senior government officials too, but the light to which power brokers are drawn at an event like this is the journalists. and pence's presence there is the story. pence is trying to run in a lane that i thought maybe pompeo would grab or chris christie, as

being acceptable having baby tr - been trump's wing man but sort of cleansing himself as victim of the january 6 insurrection, in presenting himself to the journalists. and he said this to the reporters gather there had i don't deny that you in-ffuria me, but i genuinely value what you do to keep us a democracy. the last two prominent leaders to say that were barack obama and george w. bush between donald trump's election and inauguration they both said it publicly george w. bush i think did it in an interview for mike pence to see trump and his war on the media, trump's position today is that the press is the enemy of the people as different from his view of the media, that they are important

to democracy, is interesting >> i got to tell you, i don't get it i don't get politically what this man is trying to do i mean, is he trying to pick a lane if he is, he is straddling it. you know, and i don't think that he has quite figured out that strength is not conveyed through waffling and the fact that he picked the gridiron is an indictment of him because he knew there were no cameras there. so nobody can make an ad of him saying trump was wrong with video i think that he purposely did it because no cameras with are there. and i think that he was trying to ingratiate himself to the press corps in some way that they would maybe begin to cover him as a more serious candidate. because frankly, i haven't met anybody who takes him seriously as a candidate except maybe marc short who worked for him in the

white house and understands what a bad guy trump is so it feels like there is a very small group of pence supporters to say hey, i got an idea, go to the gridiron and say trump was wrong but for gosh sakes, don't tell a grand jury what he said to you and what he was trying to do that day. and what you witnessed it is a real head scratcher for me >> frank, can doj use the comments there they are certainly germane to what he has been subpoenaed to testify to he described the injuries to the police officers. he described the threats to his own life did he weaken his own subpoena fight? >> yeah, i mean, what they can certainly do aside from hearsay concerns is ask him while he's in the grand jury, hey, look at these news reports of what you said are these accurate, yes or no.

then it becomes his testimony which is perfectly admissible and he will have to say either everybody lied about what i said or yes, i did say that but again, i think that he will do whatever he thinks serves his purpose in that grand jury room assuming he loses his challenge of the subpoena. and he will come out of there and go, well, you know, they made me do it, sorry j co >> congresswoman, i remember john bolton positioning himself in a similar way, that he couldn't voluntarily testify, but if temperatured, they would embark on the process. but you have to understand that all of these guys live in abjec terror of trump and his base and i wonder what you make of this sort of sticking his toe in the most elite and prominent journalism pool but refusing to talk to the people investigating, an attack that he said endangered the life of his

family >> first of all, i think frank and claire's analysis are spot on and i've been thinking all week as we've been seeing michael cohen going before -- for his testimony, of the hearing, you will remember it well, february of 2019, elijah conummings' closing argument basically and he said we are better than this. democracy and this country is better than this and he said when we are dancing with the angels, what will we have done to protect our democracy. mike pence has to ask himself that is he just going to tip toe this side, that side, to see if he can garner some support for what will be a failed presidential run? or when he is dancing with the

angels, would he like to say i stood up for democracy, i 1250d stood up for the truth and not this false editing when we're dancing with the angels, what will we have done for the democracy for future generations. it is haunting to me that vice president who was threatened with hanging is tiptoeing around where no cameras can see him and record him to maybe pretend to tell a little bit of the truth >> i think that is absolutely right. i'm trying to think of who could say they did what they had to do on this topic of editing, it is so contrary to what the insurrectionists themselves were able to present to juries in defending themselves once they were charged with crimes what tucker carlson is doing is detached from the reality as the insurrectionists themselves saw it and presented in courts of

law. it is beyond selective editing and the events happened before all of our eyes. >> and it is interesting because to me what tucker carlson did is divide the republican party with a really clear line. there are those that are in crazy town that are pre-tenting that his celebrity difference ed ittin ting has some sort of relevance. and there are a huge chunk of the republican party that knows what a joke it is. they saw what happened they know police officers were attacked they know the building was defaced. i saw that guy with the horns on his head him up on the dais of the united states senate, a place that i know well i saw him being disrespectful and, you know, and coming into a

room where he was not allowed to be under any circumstances and the notion that they are somehow making this guy a hero i think is offensive to way more americans than tucker carlson realized maybe not his 2 million or 3 million viewers, but hundreds of millions of people know this guy pled guilty because he was >> and frank, here is what the judge who had the qanon case said, the arizona man will serve 41 months in prison after he stormed the u.s. capitol on january 6, a federal judge ruled wednesday. and handing down the sentence for the man, u.s. district judge said this, what you did was horrific obstructing the functioning of the government what you did was terrible. you made yourself the epitome of the riot

and he spoke saying i admit to the world i was wrong. i have no excuses. my behavior was indefensible so you have in tucker carlson somebody who is going to i don't even want to call it right left but to the delusional side of the defendant himself. >> yeah, so first let me say the same thing i say whenever anybody brings up the name of general mike flynn the qanon shaman pled guilty just like mike flynn did he pled guilty so talk of a new trial or whatever is absolutely asinine he said i did that crime with regard to what has happened now in court because of what tucker carlson has promulgated on his show with this sham footage, i say this, this was

not an incidental result that it has now come up in the proud boys seditious conspiracy trial and that proud boys are now asking for their case to be dismissed because of tucker carlson's footage. this was likely a strategy by carlson to say i'm going to get my name in the record of the federal court system because my footage is going to require defendants to ask for their cases to be dropped. he must be patting himself on the back right now but i love the prosecutor's response in the proud boys case. they said, number one, tucker carlson's footage, you guys the defense attorneys for the proud boys, you already have it. you got it. there have no new revelations under the sun when it comes to what tucker carlson is putting out there as so-called new footage. it is not. number two, the real footage shows that he came in sends

afo seconds after a smashed window was breached and he then engages for about a half annual hour in a heated sc with the capitol police. and then he is breached into the senate chambers. so this thonnonsense that he was escorted and peaceful, he says no i committed a federal crime, i'm guilty the proud boys are scratching at straws has it delay the proceedings you bet. is tucker carlson happy about it probably >> and perfect distillation of where we are as a country. it is unbelievable thank you all so much for starting us off this hour. when we come back, breaking news about the michael cohen grand jury testimony, what we're learning about cohen's time before his testimony in this morning today. and plus what our dear friend is calling the real cancel culture, how the gop is

silencing critics of gun safety right now today as florida moves closer to a permitless carry law. and new details of how governor desantis targeted and firede an elected prosecutor all because of politics.

somewhere out there is that one-in-a-million. someone who thinks with their hands. who can shape raw materials into something meaningful. and who wants to serve in their own way. if you're out there. if you're looking for more. we're looking too. we're calling on a new generation of builders for navy's next-gen submarines.

only at vanguard, you're more than just an investor you're an owner. that means that your goals are ours too. and vanguard retirement tools and advice can help you get there. that's the value of ownership. as a business owner, ca your bottom line is. always top of mind. so start saving by switching to the mobile service designed for small business: comcast business mobile. flexible data plans mean you can get unlimited data or pay by the gig. all on the most reliable 5g network. with no line activation fees or term contracts. saving you up to 60% a year. and it's only available to comcast business internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities.

i'll speak for him today answering all questions, all facts and completely responsive. he is coming back on wednesday at approximately 1:30 or 2:00 to complete his testimony we're not doing to make any comments about what he said other than to repeat what mooink has michael has said, is this about accountability and facts and the truth. period presumption of innocence and we're happy to cooperate

i won't let michael comment. he has just come out of the grand jury and i will just tell you that he cooperated >> and this is the breaking news michael cohen as expected testifying for what his attorney said was about three hours before alvin bragg's grand jury. and the news there is that michael cohen will be back to testify again and additionally and what we don't know is whether that will be the last time or if there are more planned appearances for michael cohen before the grand jury. joining our coverage, harry litman, now host of the must listen podcast talking feds. your thoughts. >> well, lanny davis did say complete when he comes back on wednesday, it will be to complete three hours and they are just breaking now, suggests a pretty

methodical presentation with an aba walking cohen through everything cohen of course is the center piece of the case. there is some corroborating information. but it is no coincidence that he is the last witness both for most impact but also to be sure of consistency with the six or seven who have come before he met with them again this morning. so they are being very careful there. if there is a trial here, his testimony will be the center piece, and the other one will be his cross-examination. none of that had to come out before the grand jury, but it does suggest a very methodical presentation and one more thing, trump's lawyer said this morning on "good morning america" that they have already met with bragg to try to persuade him, meaning as i surprise anyway that once

cohen is done, that is it. all that is left do is request an indictment from the grand jury so after wednesday, i think that it is then very much a hold your breath waiting game, not a matter of weeks but a matter of days or hours. >> and what would you imagine was covered today? obviously any won't show their hand but we don't know what we don't know we only know of witnesses go in. so we nope hope hicks and kellyanne conway were in very recently what is that corroboration of the cohen testimony looking like in these final days? >> the corroboration piece, which of course precedes his story in player hope hicks saying -- she had said that she wasn't present for any

conversations, but turns out she was on two important phone calls. one the day that stormy daniels surfaces among her and trump and cohen and one the day after the payout was made with cohen so that kind of detail corroborates and we have a similar at least suggestion from cohen. you're right normally that we wouldn't know, but michael cohen has told his story many times including on your show, but also in congress. i think we have a very good idea of what he is telling them he won't be changing his story now and it is just how detailed they want to get but i suspect that they are going chronologically from the surface of stormy daniels, the whole back and forth with the nationa"national enquirer," may comes wednesday the payment, how that is characterized, why that is a lie reinforces trump's knowledge and involvement of

everything but we know i think what he is saying before them >> and we dug up just to remind ourselves what the highly regarded southern district of new york prosecutors had found when they investigated this episode. and they found that individual one donald trump quote directed and coordinated michael cohen's payments to two women for the express purpose of benefiting his 2016 campaign. federal campaign violations aren't at play in the state. but how much of the evidence has been reassembled from what those federal prosecutors had examined and found beyond any doubt, just that he was president and bill barr was attorney general, that he was never charged in that time frame, that they were able to assemble evidence including from some of these same people that have been alvailed to

bragg's office >> first, it is a great question and a legal fine point because we'll have to distinguish when it comes to trial between allegations, remember cohen pleads guilty and actual evidence but i think that we can assume everything they found will be rehearsed in the state trial and cohen was the defendant. so what does that mean pretty of the whole story without trump is what he is convicted for and yet as you say, the case asthma and he pleads to is with individual one, trump's control so it will be everything that i've just talked about that results in his being criminally charged with misdirecting, mischaracterizing payment. and then i think this stuff about trump as well but it will have to come through cohen and not the allegations of an assistant united states attorney and that is what will be the real donnybrook if and when it

comes to cross-examination but i think the short answer is everything >> pretty good short answer. one more question for you. we've been educated about the state laws and we understand that if it is the falsification of business records, that is a misdemeanor unless it is in the service of a second crime. what is your prevailing theory on what that second crime would be >> this is the most important question and why i want to see the indictment mine is what everyone else's is, and yet that does take us into some legally soft or untrod ground but the second crime as i understand it would be both stated under federal and new york law, a campaign contribution violation the theory being that the $130,000 was paid off in order to benefit trump's campaign but

not reported as such because we're in the closing days and after the "access hollywood" and other things, it might have been a fatal blow that will be the theory and that will also be the kind of legal -- there will be a lot of legal scrums going forward here and many months until a jury is sworn. if that is the theory bragg brings forward, that will be the number one focus of pretrial litigation >> harry litman, always grateful to have you especially as this news is literally breaking thank you so much for being with us >> thank you when we come back, how republicans in the nation's third largest state are stiflin over expansion of gun rights can't say no to these prices! hmm, clumping litter? resounding yes! salmon paté? love that for me! essentials? check! ooh, we have enough to splurge on catnip toys! we did it, i feel so accomplished. pet me, please!

okay that's enough. now back to me time. luv you! great prices. happy pets. chewy. we must finally hold social media companies accountable. it's time to pass bipartisan legislation to stop big tech from collecting personal data on our kids and teenagers online. ban targeted advertising to children. ♪ ♪ ♪ get directv with a two year price guarantee. with unitedhealthcare my sister has a whole team to help her get the most out of her medicare plan. ♪wow, uh-huh♪ advantage: me! can't wait 'til i turn 65! take advantage with an aarp medicare advantage plan... only from unitedhealthcare. new projects means new project managers. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do.

when you sponsor a job, you immediately get your shortlist of quality candidates, whose resumes on indeed match your job criteria. visit indeed.com/hire and get started today.

- life is uncertain. everyday pressures can feel overwhelming it's okay to feel stressed, anxious, worried, or frustrated. it's normal. with calhope's free and secure mental health resources, it's easy to get the help you and your loved ones need when you need it the most. call our warm line at (833) 317-4673

or live chat at calhope.org today. republicans in the florida statehouse are on the verge of passing a potentially dangerous, potentially deadly new law that would allow for what is called permitless carry, that means that people in the state of florida might soon be able to carry a weapon without anything, without any sort of license from the state. never mind the data this shows that such policies have resulted in significant hikes in gun homicides. and never mind the public polling or how we the people feel it shows that 77% of florida voters including 62% of

florida's republicans stand opposed to permitless carry legislation. in fact you might never know it considering republicans there recently put a cap on public comment on the measure to one minute, 60 seconds, per person, limiting first amendment rights to ram through a law that misinterprets the second frank guttenberg is joining us his daughter was killed in the parkland school shooting and he is company author of the book "american carrage." and with us at the table david jolly. and fred, i follow you and so i first saw this story following your twitter feed. tell us what happened. >> so florida under our di dimwitted honestly weak minded governor is on the path to passing permitless carry and what they have done is they

are doing it in a way where they didn't really want anyone to notice what they are doing because they have pretty much canceled debate. they scheduled very minimal debate hours and they only scheduled witnesses for a total of one minute. one minute if you were to go there and debate and they are front loading with their witnesses so like me who would have been on the back end end up with less than one minute hey, governor, i watch you where you talk about florida is a state where woke goes to die, whatever the hell that mean, but the truth is that florida is going to be the state where people go to die because of this if you really believe this is what floridians won't, which over 70% do not, but if you really believe this is what floridians want, have the

fortitude to have a real debate, a we're real we're hear ing, bu it in the shadows. >> what is the purpose of doing somethinghear ing, but don't dot in the shadows >> what is the purpose of doing something that 66% of florida republicans oppose >> red meat. they are all on the base listen, it is unfortunate, but desantis has done this before. we've seen the playbook. think back to last year with don't say gay. and the public session that they brought everybody back to tallahassee for, that was supposed to actually be used to deal with an insurance crisis and the property markets that they created and they didn't use it for the insurance crisis instead they used it to punish disney they are all in on red meat.

they don't care about what happens in florida because he's running for president. and so listen, again, he is weak he does not want to face people, he wants to have his manufactured moments if he thinks i'm wrong about whether or not he is weak, hey, gov, i'll meet you anytime anyplace, let's debate >> has he ever responded to your offer to debate? >> no, he's weak and he won't >> david jolly, i think he is weaker politically than national republicans and national conservative media figures recognize. and i've come to that through reading -- i mean we'll do this other story based on this unbelievable firing of a local prosecutor he doesn't do his homework he doesn't drill down beneath half an inch and his instincts are not so great. he is running against 66% of his own state's republicans. you get to iowa and you have

your republican voters saying not so much, that is a terrible launch into a national political moment >> ron desantis won the state of florida by 20 points in november and his takeaway was he had a mandate. my takeaway is america doesn't want to be florida because the rest of the country chose a different direction. so we're about to test whether or not he is the ultimate evangelist for this doctrine that he wants to purchase say oig on the street, or is florida really out of step and i think florida is really out of step. what fred is talking about is a critical issue to families and children in the state of florida. what they are debating now is permitless carry you can carry a gun whether or not the government tells you are allowed to or not. but what ron desantis is going to do next spring is open carry. so when my kids go in a grocery

story, they will watch people with guns on their hips walking around and is that out of step with the rest of the country? it absolutely is that is what we learned in november the politics of florida are out of step nationally ron desantis wants to prove otherwise. we'll see. >> but he's running as two failed models. so even if you take the extremism, it didn't work anywhere >> i think that this is where the other republican presidential candidates have a lane that they are examining so ron desantis has doubled down on trumpism in a big way but trumpism continues to lose so it wins in florida, but it loses nationally and i think if you are nikki haley, mike pompeo, mike pence and others, is there a lane for you this ev then to challenge i? maybe there is >> all right whenwe come back, that other

story i was talking about, shocking new revelations about ron desantis' clumsy, incompetent frankly a mess of a firing of a twice elected decrmoatic prosecutor. the governor said it was about public safety, but the documents, his own documents show that it was no such thing we'll bring you that fantastic new reporting next

♪ i like to move it, move it ♪ ♪ you like to... move it ♪ we're reinventing our network. ♪ ♪ ♪ fast. reliable. perfectly orchestrated. the united states postal service.

♪ ♪ to all the chevy silverado owners out there. the adventurers and the doers. to everyone that works hard and plays hard. whether it's your first silverado or your tenth. thank you for making chevy silverado the #1 best-selling retail full-size pickup. for copd, ask your doctor about breztri. breztri gives you better breathing, symptom improvement, and helps prevent flare-ups. breztri won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. it is not for asthma. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. don't take breztri more than prescribed. breztri may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vison changes, or eye pain occur. if you have copd ask your doctor about breztri.

hey, man. you could save hundreds for safe driving with liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance. so you only pay for what you need! whoo! we gotta go again. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ >> tech: when you have auto glass damage, trust safelite. only pay for what you need. my customer really relies on his car's advanced safety system. [alarm] >> instructor: veer right. [ringing] >> instructor: and slow down. >> tech: so when he got a cracked windshield, he turned to safelite. we're the experts at replacing glass and recalibrating your vehicle's camera, so automatic emergency braking and lane departure warning work properly to get you back on the road safely. >> instructor: and that means a lot! >> tech: schedule now. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ here is a question you

already know the answer to is florida governor ron desantis more interested in effective governing or is he just interested in political headlines, building up his national republican political profile? thanks to some fantastic new investigative reporting in the "new york times," there is overwhelming evidence that proves the latter. last summer he bragged about removing a local prosecutor from his job suggesting that he did so as part of a broader effort to protect floridians from progressive prosecutors who undermine public safety. and one problem for desantis, there was no evidence then or now that that was true in fact a closer exam nation by journalists who sifted through thousands of pages of government records trial and testimony,nat journalists who sifted through thousands of pages of government records trial and testimony, paints a portrait of a governor's office that seemed driven by a preconceived

political narrative content with a flimsy investigation and we're back with fred and david. fred, this is the danger, right, of a party that is about nothing except getting a good block by tucker carlson's segment producers. i won't play it, but this culminated on desantis going on tucker carlson who gave him a big fat at a boy >> it is always the cover story that they are after but not the content. and when you look at the content, that is where you find the problems and again, i'll use the permitless carry bill as an example. because while he runs around his shiny objects and the cover story, part of this bill actually will roll back th

if you put lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig and this bill will actually make it easier or less -- they'll have less of a penalty if you're caught on a school campus now with a gun because of this bill. they're only after the cover story. they don't want to you check the content. the content is what ultimately is going to be deadly here. >> david, i know there are groups that run on just this issue, but 66% of florida republicans who oppose, there isn't a state -- i mean, it's a generous bellwether. i imagine 80% of the republicans oppose permitless carry. why isn't there a sustained national conversation being driven from the smartest minds of the former right about what republicans would do >> i'm caught by your adjective smartest, and i don't know what i would replace with it, but i

think fred's journey might be a lesson in this, which is you have a government in florida led by governor ron desantis who wants the make guns easier to purchase, easier to carry, and next session, easier to wear you can wear them publicly but for parents, i think the question is not one of intellect, it's one of values. do you want to raise your kids in that state? give me a little license here, i would ask fred one of my fellow floridians as someone with children now, would you recommend raising your kids in the state of florida given the culture of guns right now? i don't know the answer to that. >> listen, i love a lot of things about florida, but the answer to your question right now is no. this afternoon there was a breaking story of a 3-year-old

in texas who shot and killed his 4-year-old sister because of a weapon left unlocked it is what happened when we dumb down the notion of gun ownership and just assume it's okay for every untrained, irresponsible person to have a gun it is what florida is on their way to doing it is making the state more dangerous. stop the nonsense that if you oppose gun violence, if you want to save lives, you're anti-gun that's not the case. so until florida, through those we elect, can start taking it seriously, we have an entire economy here that exist because of wonderful resources and things that are natural to the state. and ron desantis is going to

ruin that. >> frank gets the last word on that question, right so that's that i saw that story, and there's -- i'm embarrassed that i didn't bring it to this conversation, a 4-year-old shot and killed his or her 3-year-old sibling. and the truth is, you are likely to know somebody impacted by gun violence in america, but you will definitely have a child raised from 3 on doing active shooter drills, and we don't know what that does to kids because we've never raised a generation of kids who start at 3. but at 3, i've described on the this program, the active shooter drill is to tell them to be very, very quiet, and they lower the shade on the door. at 5 or 6, they start to know it's an invasion or intrusion, and teach them better to get in the closets. by 7, 8, 9, there's some awareness to the world around them by 11, they have their phones because they've seen the texts

that go out in parkland or uvalde it's also what kids use who are victims of active shooter crises and tragedies at their school. and i wonder, fred, what you think about this conversation -- this is not a "it won't happen to me" if you have a kid, it's happened to you you are raising a kid who by 7, 8, 9, 10, knows they can get shot and killed at school. >> unfortunately because of legislators who put politics of some sort in front of saving lives, we have to treat gun violence as if it's predictable, as if it's inevitable, as if it's foreseeable, and it doesn't need to be but because of these people, that's where we are. so, here's my advice you know, ron desantis and my

friend david mentioned it, he won by 20 points he did, because he did turn out his voters, and in the state of florida, unlike the rest of the country, democrats did sit home. my advice -- don't you ever sit home again show up and vote, show up and vote like the lives of those you love matter, because this is what happens when you don't. >> you get the last word >> i think regardless of your walk of life, we all share a similar station, which is we want to protect our kids, and i think fred's testimony is the most important of all, which is sometimes you can't, and you rely on the actors in government and our schools and others to protect your kids, and the greatest risk -- the greatest fear many americans peel is dropping your kids off at the schoolhouse door and that's a failure of the country and fred bears the burden. >> i wasn't kidding, i wish i

could s-- fred and david,pe on invitation quick break for us, we'll be right back to compare home insurance options. man...i told my wife i'd be in here for hours. what do we do now? we live... ♪♪ save time and money with progressive's homequote explorer. what you do afterwards, is up to you. oh, whoa, i was actually just thinking i would take a nap. pretty tired. okay. it's daylight saving time. what's the big deal? what's the big deal? what's the big deal? ♪marching band music♪ scotts daylawn saving is the biggest deal of the year. stock up early and save up to $20 dollars on the best scotts products. with powerful, easy-to-use tools power e*trade makes complex trading easier react to fast-moving markets with dynamic charting and a futures ladder that lets you place, flatten, or reverse orders

so you won't miss an opportunity let's do it. woah. shh, mommy's sleeping. [whispering] introducing adt self setup featuring google nest products. now you can easily install your system that's backed by adt's 24/7 monitoring, with no long-term contracts. - hey you two. have fun. - bye mom. when the most trusted name in home security adds the intelligence of google,

you have a home with no worries. brought to you by adt.

>> thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these truly extraordinary times. we are grateful. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now hi, ari. happy monday. >> happy monday. hi, nicolle. thank you. welcome to "the beat." i'm ari melber boy, do we have some real news to start this week there are signs the walls may be closing in on donald trump when you look at the offer he's