have ever heard one. right now, of course, pence is still fighting a subpoena from jack smith about telling the truth, which raises the question, why give public speeches that continue to litigate this if you won't just go in and help the government itself protect itself from future coups with accountability for the last one in other words, mr. pence, how will history hold trump accountable if you won't even hold yourself accountable and sit down for a day and tell the truth under oath that is a big question now, as always, i invite you to join me online if you want more than just the hour of "the beat." you can find me @arimelber or at arimelber.com. that's arimelber.com o oor or @arimelber or keep it locked on msnbc with that in mind, keep it locked right now "the reidout" with joy reid starts now

tonight on "the reidout" -- >> my goal, this is not revenge. what this is is account ability. i don't want to see anyone including donald trump indicted, incarcerated simply because i fundamentally disagree with them this is all about accountability he needs to be held accountable for his dirty deed >> michael cohen testified before a grand jury. and with the walls seeming to be closing in, trump is once again calling for an investigation of the investigation. also tonight, president biden reassures americans that their money is safe in the bank, after two recent bank failures and we'll look at the role trump era deregulation played in the financial havoc in silicon valley we begin tonight with mike pence. a former vice president who quite possibly is most famous for his tongue biting silence. but believe it or not, mike pence used to talk for a living.

seriously, he was a right-wing talk radio host in the '90s, true story meaning it was once his job to say what he thought. >> is adultery no longer a big deal in indiana and in america just love to know your thoughts, because i for one believe that the seventh commandment contained in the ten commandments is still a big deal >> what a difference two decades and a maga takeover makes. these days, pence is hardly known for his opinions even about the mob trump unleashed to hunt him on january 6th, and who called for his death in a very specific way [ chanting hang mike pence ] >> they even brought their own noose. pence would go on to condemn trump in his uniquely safe way never mind that he came within 40 feet of the mob trump enflamed and trained on him to punish pence for not breaking the law and declaring trump's

electors would be certified even though he lost that mob forced pence into hiding in a loading dock beneath the capitol building for hours until the attack ended well, two years later, pence has finally said out loud what he really thinks about all that it happened saturday night at the annual gridiron dinner, a white tie dinner attended by journalists and politicians in washington, d.c. we can't play it because the gridiron forbids cameras at its events meaning no video, no audio, and the irony of journalists holding a closed door political event is not lost on us we do know what was said based on the accounts of pence's speech which included saying, quote, trump was wrong i had no right to overturn the election and his reckless words endangered my family and everyone at the capitol that day, and i know history will hold donald trump accountable. pence also said what happened that day was a disgrace and it mocks decency to portray it in any other way. which kind of sorta sound like a

swipe at tucker carlson. he also came with jokes, trolling trump about his fragile ego, saying trump wanted pence to sing wind beneath my wings. in particular, the line, did you ever know you're my hero, during the weekly lunches he also took a shot at trump over classified documents. saying i read some of those documents were actually stuck in the president's bible, which proves he had absolutely no idea they were there. tip your waiters to be a fly on the wall at that dinner perhaps on pence's hair. look, it is not hard to see why pence chose to let loose hello, the guy tried to get you killed pence also want to be president, so maybe getting the media elite on his side helps somehow. but saying history will hold trump accountable is kind of a weird take, given that that only happens through the justice system, and pence is currently refusing to testify in the doj probe into january 6th and vowing to fight their subpoena so accountable, how?

but as we now know, pence is not alone in talking one way about trump in public and another way behind closed doors. more than a million pages of internal messages in the billion dollar dominion defamation suit have revealed the lies between the trump fox love affair. new matter focuses on raj shah who privately rejected the white house narrative of a stolen election while keeping those lies alive to protect the company brand. shah was a major senior aide in trump's white house for two years before snagging a gig at fox. "the washington post" reports that three days before the capitol attack, shah exchanged text messages with another former white house spokesman, josh rufell, who flagged to shah a tweet noting that trump's daily schedule now carried with it the vague assurance that the president would make many calls and have many meetings he wrote, quote, i think what they meant is, the president will wake up early and commit

many, many crimes including but not limited to obstruction of justice, attempted fraud, and treason, in an effort to conduct a coup man, these conservatives got jokes. another let's say memorable message came from a tucker carlson producer who has since left fox he called the delicate dance with their oddgence surreal. quote, like negotiating with terrorists, he said, but especially dumb ones cousin f'ing types, not saudi royalty. joining me is charlie sykes, an msnbc columnist and contributor, and tara setmayer, senior adviser to the lincoln project and former republican communications director. charlie, i have to go to you first. you, me, and he. you, me, and mike pence all used to do talk radio you know his former career, right? i mean, it is kind of ironic that he really did talk for a living, and he did it in very conservative talk radio where the goal, and you used to do this for a living, too, is to

keep the audience engaged and also to never contradict what they already think that seems to be his job then and now. >> yes, and so he is sort of trapped in this loop the fact is, it's one thing to speak out at the gridiron dinner, but he needs to testify. he needed to have testified to the january 6th committee. he needs to stop fighting the subpoena also, he needs to recognize that the fact that he is willing to say what he has said is the reason he is never going to be the republican nominee, because that is disqualifying. that tells you a lot about the republican party former governor, former vice president will never be president because he dares to call out the president for his attempted coup >> you know who agrees with that donald trump donald trump has since of course responded to mike pence's remarks at the gridiron, and this is what he said he said, he blames trump for january 6th, had he sent the vote back to the legislators, they wouldn't have had a problem with january 6th so enmany ways you can blame him

for january 6th. basically admitting that that was the purpose of the mob he also said, i guess he figured that being nice is not working, because he's at number three in the polls so he figured he might as well not be nice any longer tara, this is an admission of guilt. so trump is basically saying, yeah, that mob was there to kill you if he didn't give me the election, and the proof is they came to get you. and if i'm the department of justice lawyer, i'm writing that down your thoughts. >> doesn't trump always do that? he always admits to the crime. and he turns it around and blames everybody else. it's always about projection he's been saying this and blaming pence since january 6th and prior to that. i mean, it was the lincoln project that put out the ad after the election that let trump know, by the way, mike pence is the one that's actually going to seal your fate here you lost the election, and pence is going to seal your fate on january 6th with that ceremonial

power there in congress. and they didn't know it's in pence's book the department of justice was contacted to find out how they could get back at lincoln project because it pissed off donald trump so much that we alerted them to this fact, so this has been brewing for quite some time. we have seen the anecdotes in the past about how trump called pence all kinds of names and basically called him a coward and said you're the p word if you don't do this. and you know, i mean, pence has been cowardly in a lot of ways i think he's a weakling because he should have been this strong about what happened on january 6th immediately after and consistently after you can't be this sankmonious and this pearl clutching about things 2 1/2 years later when you're trying to find political expediency to run, a lane to run in, which he doesn't have. what constituency does he have he doesn't i wish this wasn't as big of news as it is, because where was

this for two years he's only saying this now because he wrote a book and he's trying to run for president and he did it to a crowd where he's trying to garner favor with him so they'll write glowing stories about him as he runs for president. i'm over mike pence and tired of everyone giving him a gold star and a cookie what chris rock said, what, do you want a cookie for doing the right thing? knrm kind of ever it >> like getting your allowance for cleaning your room but here's the danger of it, charlie. i think this is what's important. you have a republican base that's also reflected on fox news that both despises their followers and fears them they're in absolute terror of these people, to the point where you had kevin mccarthy say yeah, trump totally did it, and then turned around and say, you know, it's not really clear. i had to give this to tucker because he needs him to rewrite it the republican base is now so in a sense they have been trained to hear what they want to hear on their tv networks, on their

websites, regardless of the truth. so that they become so enraged when the actual truth hits them that they're willing to overturn the government this has been a dangerous game rush limbaugh played it, mike pence played it. they're still playing it because they're too afraid of their audience to tell them the truth. everyone knows what happened about january 6th that knows about civics it was going to be biden and look what happened >> and now they're trapped by that you're right those quotes we're getting show the contempt they have for their audience and also how afraid they are of their audience the audience wants fox to be a safe space republican politicians have also internalized this, which means you're going to have this split screen, what they say in private, what they say in public but it also means that they're not going to be willing to stand up to the base and tell them, okay, thus far and no farther, there all no guardrails, nobody like john mccain to say no, no,

no, barack obama is a good family mane. you can't use that kind of language i agree with tara, but itis, you know, it is worth noting that mike pence is at least willing to say these things. it is by no means adequate, it is by no means enough, but maybe it breaks through at some point, when they begin to hear this because you're going to have to have people from that world who are the ones who are going to say you have been lied to, this was a coup, it was undemocratic, what tucker carlson is doing is an offense against decency quite frankly, they're not going to listentuse. not going to listen to npr or "the new york times. >> not going to listen to mike pence either >> somebody has to say it, tara. to charlie's point, look, the reality is republican members of congress are going to go to the jail and visit the insurrectionists who tried to kill them. that's where we are now. they're going to lead a delegation to kneel to the people who threatened to kill

him. if hey had gotten their hands on any of these people, they would have grabbed them and hurt them just like they would have hurt mike pence, any of them, but now they're going to go and bow down to the people who tried to kill them i mean, i think at a certain point, there has to be a circuit breaker on the right i remember when kavanaugh was up for the supreme court. it was demoralizing for women to think about, people who watched, you know, networks like this one, to know he was getting off. we told them, he's going to get through. this is reality. we could do math they have the votes. and it's like, telling people that ain't great for numbers it ain't great, but you have to do it. it's the job who on the right is going to do the job of breaking the circuit with this base that has been trained, you will hear what you want to hear or else you are going to threaten to kill the people - >> you're recognize. they have to be told the truth lincoln project just put out an ad trolling trump and hisfully

ors at mar-a-lago and iowa saying listen, if fox news won't tell you the truth, we will. this is what they really think of you and donald trump. then it's starting -- that is starting to break through a little bit with people, realizing, wait a minute, we're being lied to. but where do they go from there? is that going to radicalize them more and gravitate to steve bannon and oan and conspiracy theorists or is the fever going to break that's up to them. people are responsible for their own behavior, but we're responsible for telling the truth and that's what we're going to continue to do. we have a responsibility to do it for the health of our democracy moving forward >> for the survival of our democracy, absolutely. people have to hear, and more information is more painful. that's the reality >> it's also power information is power >> that's right. you have to know it. that cold splash of water wakes you up thank you very much, charlie and tara up next, michael cohen testifies before the grand jury investigating hush money payments to stormy daniels

so will teflon don finally be held accountable for at least one of his many misdeeds "the reido" utcontinues after this so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's a little number you'll never forget. did you know that liberty mutual custo— ♪ liberty mutual. ♪ ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ ♪ custom home insurance created for you all. ♪ ♪ now the song is done ♪ ♪ back to living in your wall. ♪ they're just gonna live in there? ♪ yes. ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ oh! it's daylight saving time. what's the big deal? gasp! what's the big deal? what's the big deal?

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it is an amazing product. . what's your goal today >> my goal is to tell the truth. my goal is to allow alvin bragg and his team to do what they need to do i'm just here to answer the questions. >> donald trump's former attorney and fixer michael cohen testified before a manhattan grand jury today for more than

three hours in the investigation over a hush money payment arranged for porn actress stormy daniels on trump's behalf days before the 2016 presidential election now, while it was cohen's first time in front of this grand jury, he has met with prosecutors at least 20 times during the investigation preparing for this day he told reporters that he will be back on wednesday to continue testifying it comes as manhattan district attorney alvin bragg is said to be closing in on a decision whether to indict trump which could be an historic trump against a former er president bragg's office has extended an invitation to trump to testify after meeting with his legal team over the weekend, trump not surprisingly has decided to rsvp no in pure trump fashion, his lawyers are now calling for an independent investigation into that very same d. a.'s office, claiming prosecutors have weaponized the office in its years-long investigation into trump. joining me is lisa reuben, and david k. johnson, author of the

big cheat, how donald trump fleeced america and enriched himself and his family a title that makes a lot of sense. lisa, i want to start with you on this. this is the possibility under new york election law. it's section 17-52 it's conspiracy to promote or prevent election two people conspire to promote or prevent the election of any one person shall be guilty of a misdemeanor. is that what trump is facing, a misdemeanor? michael cohen went to prison for this >> no, and i realize that, michael cohen did go to prison this is a possible statute that the new york d.a.'s office could use to bump up the falsification of trump's business records to a felony the falsification of business records statute says if you falsify your business records to further another crime or to conceal it, that itself can be a felony, and that underlying crime does not itself have to be

a felony so it's one of these one plus one equals two situations. i have speculated one of the crimes they might be looking at is the one you just cited. it's not a conventional campaign finance violation, rather it's about a group of people coming together to promote somebody's election through unlawful means. i have speculated those unlawful means is michael cohen's bank fraud. he got a home equity loan to pay off stormy daniels that's fraglntly detained. >> trump's lawyer was talking this morning and he said the issue was these were personal funds that were used so it can't be a campaign finance violation because they were personal funds used does that wash >> i don't think so, but more importantly, if this is the theory the d.a.'s office is thinking about, they're not concec conseptembertualizing it as a

campaign finance issue you don't have to worry is it a federal violation or a state violation. you can characterize it as a violation of state law through and through and indict trump that way >> david, let me bring you in here because there's always been this sort of question in my mind and many people's minds, why the feds didn't go after trump, because they did indict michael cohen. again, and send him to prison. this is what sdny wrote about it he played a role in two similar schemes to purchase the rights to stories, each woman claiming to have an affair with individual one, trump, with respect to both payments, cohen acted with intent to influence the 2016 presidential election he coordinated his action with one or more members of the campaign, in particular, cohen himself has now admitted with respect to both payments, he acted in coordination with and at the direction of individual one. so he was prosecuted for that. there's also now some evidence

that this prosecutor, this state prosecutor, is squeezing allen weiss weisselberg, woo cohen testified under oath was in the room and was told with him to figure out how to pay stormy daniels. do you think weisselberg, your reporting on this family is second to none, is squeezable, because he's already gone to jail for trump >> well, that's a really good question because allen is a wholly owned subsidiary of donald's mind and has been for 50 years i think the reason that the justice department didn't pursue the michael cohen case, which looks like a slam dunk, is that they didn't see it as being the biggest case to bring, if you're going to go after a former president. on the other hand, alvin bragg decided not to go the rico route, which i thought was a very smart move. and now he's come back with using the new york state business laws which could be very effective, as lisa points

out, two misdemeanors, you get a felony and his own efforts now by trump's lawyers are going to be to say, oh, this is all illegitimate the laws are murky we don't know what we're doing here and it may be a broader case than that. weisselberg is right now in jail he has an agreement that he has to fully and faithfully testify. i don't think he did that in his own trial, the one for the trump organization and himself but he didn't flake out either completely i'm sure there's been a serious effort to say to him, you're going to have to be candid about what happened here and bringing in other witnesses suggest that there's other evidence that allen weisselberg knew about these illicit payments >> and who is jeff connie? >> he's another trump finance guy. he works under allen weisselberg. >> so if they are now starting to zero in on the trump

organization as being a part of pulling together this scheme, are you saying the pressure on the organization will be a way to make trump pay for it because it seems to me if you and i agree that i'm going to rob a bank and give you the money, we're both supposed to go to jail, not just me >> well, i think bragg is trying to get the people who work for trump, and by the way, are still on his pay roll, to turn on trump. and to present evidence that they cannot escape because there's some documentary of some kind donald famously tore about his calendars at the end of every month. he didn't operate with emails so he could deny things people on his staff have been called in to testify and so i think the effort is going to be to build to the jury a solid case, but of course this is what happened, and to show if anything that allen weisselberg is trying to curry favor with donald if his testimony is less than candid.

>> right well, we shall see because nobody can get pardoned if this is a state case. thank you both very much still ahead, the failure of two big banks raises questions about the stability of american financial institutions and whether trump era deregulation is alet ast partly to blame. we'll be right back. getrefundsm can see if it may qualify for a payroll tax refund of up to $26,000 per employee. all it takes is eight minutes to get started. then work with professionals to assist your business with its forms and submit the application. go to getrefunds.com to learn more. [music “this little light of mine”] in the world's poorest places, children with cleft conditions live in darkness and shame. with its forms and submit the application. they're shunned, outcast, living in pain. you can reach out and change the life of a suffering child right now. a surgery that take as little as forty five minutes and your act of love can change a child's life forever. please call, scan or go online to give a new smile. thousands of children are waiting.

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. today, thanks to the quick action of my administration over the past few days, americans can

have confidence that the banking system is safe your deposits will be there when you need them. no losses will be borne by the taxpayers. >> president biden reassured americans that our banking system is safe in the aftermath of the second biggest bank failure in american history. silicon valley bank, svb, the country's 16th largest bank, collapsed last week when customers panicked and withdrew their money. $42 billion after the bank took a big loss that led signature bank customers to panic and withdraw more than $10 billion in deposits there republicans, of course, are seizing upon this opportunity to use their new magic word and pin the crisis on wokeness, with ron desantis and james comer bringing about diversity initiatives and environmental investments as the supposed culprits in what happened with these banks. like all other banks, their main goal is to make money. fortune describes it as the single most critical financial institution for the tech scene,

serving half of all venture backed companies in the u.s., including, yes, clean energy start-ups because that's where the money is as the atlantic's david graham points out, the reason svb would want to advertise its programs on dei, environmental social and corporate governance or esg, and other matters is not because it was enthralled to woke ideology. it's because that was a good business decision. ie, they invest in stuff people like how does the tired meme brigade explain the presence of strictly antiwoke right winger petal thiel who was a big investor in svb and who helped collapse the bank by yanking out millions of dollars on thursday? republicans may want to cast their blame inward instead in 2018, trump signed a law weakening dodd/frank and reducing oversight on banks like silicon valley after svb's ceo directly lobbied for it. as elizabeth warren wrote today, had congress and the federal reserve not rolled back the

stricter oversight, svb and signature would have been subject to stronger liquidity and capital requirements to withstand financial shocks but they weren't because of deregulation joining me now is congresswoman maxine waters of california, ranking democrat on the house financial services committee congresswoman, thank you for being here i assume this matter will come before your committee. i do wonder, i wanted to disped dispense with this quickly the right has already tried to make tis a wokeness story. andy kessler wrote, svb notes besides 91% of their board being independent and 45% woman, they have one black, one lgbtq plus, and two veterans i'm not saying 12 white man might have diverted this -- it does sound like he is saying 12 white men would have diverted this mess. >> let me tell you, in examining as much as i can what has taken place, listening to the

briefings that one i put together with fdic, talking with the feds, so with powell, talking with yellen over at the treasury, what i know is this. that the silicon valley bank was a go-to bank for start-ups basically no other bank would support them for the most part many i think of the traditional banks didn't understand this innovation and all that the start-ups were trying to get funding for, so it's like not only did they support the start-ups, they might have taken too much risk in doing it. in addition that, you have to understand when we talk about regulation and deregulation, et cetera, the financial services and banking community is interested in the bottom line. so they're always going to be advocating for what they think will get the most money for them and take care of the customers that they want to serve.

and so those of us who sit in the positions like the financial services committee, we have to be about regulation. we have to make sure we're protecting the people of this country. we have to make sure that we're watching the s.e.c., for example, our cop on the block, so we have been in a struggle, and we will always be in a struggle because their mission is a lot different from ours so you have this bank that was a go-to bank, that was supporting all of these start-ups, et cetera, and i don't know how they missed looking at their balance sheets to see what was going on and of course, when they actually understood, i suppose, what was going on, it was too late to borrow money it was too late to sell securities and so here we have a bank that collapsed. and in that collapse, it forced this government to have to come to grips with we had a real problem and we have to do

something fast we should be, the government should be complemented in the way they put together protecting the depositors, both those that are insured, those that were not insured. how we were able to protect jobs and how we were able to get those payrolls done so that these owners of these small tech companies could pay their staffs we did a miraculous job. and we need to thank our agencies for doing that. we have new questions that we have to deal with, for example, what are we going to do about the uninsured from now on? we know that the bank had 90% uninsured. we have to deal with that. >> let me ask you this, because you are talking about regulation greg becker, who is the ceo of silicon valley bank. he sold $3.6 million worth of stock in potentially problematic transaction -- in a potentially problematic transaction days before the bank failed so he's dumping stock. we know that part of the

government -- i guess they're not calling it a bailout, but helping the banks to stay afloat involves firing management what could be done about that? you have a guy that's dumping stock or dumping millions of dollars of stock before the bank collapses? >> that's a serious thing, and we must be concerned about it. we're not bailing out the banks. we are really taking care of our depositors, both again, insured and uninsured. and banks that have done, you know, suspicious things or things that perhaps already are in violation of regulation of laws are going to have to be accountable. they're going to have to be accountable for what they have done >> do you think that maybe this is one sort of element where it is a bipartisan issue. barney frank who people remember as the frank in dodd/frank reportedly supported weakening some of these regulations, and then he left to then join the board of one of these two banks. signature bank is that an issue where you have

members of congress who understand the regulatory process and then going out into the private sector and joining these organizations on their boards and then supporting weakening the regulations? >> well, you know, i think we have looked add those issues somewhat we need to look at them in depth and determine whether or not we're going to do, saying you can't lobby for a certain length of time. i think those are things that are worth looking at signature bank has closed down and i think that may happen with a few other banks, but i'm looking at signature to see how much crypto was involved there, because we have to know what role did crypto play in any of this so we have a lot to explore. a lot to investigate, a lot to understand we're getting together and going to have a hearing as quickly as we can, and we're going to try to work in a bipartisan way because we have to make sure

that we are concerned continuously still about contagion. we don't know a lot of stuff still out there, and so we have work to do congresswoman maxine waters, thank you very much. really appreciate your time. up next, how students are stepping up to lead the fight against conservatives' anti-education agenda. i recently spoke with dr. ibram x. kendy about that and our conversation is next lomita feed is 101 years old. when covid hit, we had some challenges. i heard about the payroll tax refund that allowed us to keep the people that have been here taking care of us. learn more at getrefunds.com.

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arkansas republican governor sarah huckabee sanders is joining florida's ron desantis in putting culture wars ahead of business she signed a sweeping education bill essentially creating a voucher system and prohibiting certain topics critical race theory, instruction on gender and sexual identity before the fifth grade. arkansas students, however, did not take the legislation lying down at little rock's historic central high school, sanders' alma mater, by the way, more than 1,000 students joined a recent walkout, and a group descending on a committee hearing to share their objections >> it doesn't work it doesn't help. it doesn't do anything to actually address - >> they do not support - >> you can only speak on these

amendments >> this bill is taking so many things >> i'm speaking on why you should not accept these amendments it's exactly what we're speaking on >> this committee gets to decide what we do >> i started off my speech here by saying i wanted to thank you for the opportunity to speak however, i take that back pause you are not allowing us to speak. >> well, they tried to share their objections, anyway in an open letter, central high school students took issue with sanders invoking the history of their school in her state of the union rebuttal specifically the nine black students who desegregated it under national guard escort in 1957 the current students wrote, if governor sanders had her way, we wouldn't be able to examine how racism shaped these structures to allow for those violations to take place joining me now is dr. ibram x. kendi, his newest book is the

making of butterflies, his second children's book adaptation of the story by the great zora neal hursten. it's always good to see you. it strikes me as a fact of learning that in this whole battle over education, the adults are the problem not the kids your comments on not just the little rock, arkansas, students standing up but the students all over the country from florida to alabama, who are saying no, we want to learn. >> so joy, my research as a scholar really began in studying student activists, particularly black student activists in the late 1960s and early 1970s who came onto college campuses and noticed that their history, that their culture, that their experiences weren't reflected in the curriculum, so students have been demonstrating and pushing for relevant truthful, diverse,

multicultural educational system for quite some time, and they have consistently faced resistance from adults and now is no different. >> what does it say about our society that for one of our two major political parties, the salient issue for them is stopping students from learning black history and from even discussing the existence of gay people they have decided that is the most important issue in the country, more than the economy, more than anything else, it's stopping kids from learning those two things >> what it says to me is that in many ways. we're not at a place where a major political party is trying to stop black children from going to school with white children at central high school, but they're trying to segregate in a different type of way they're trying to segregate out the history and the experiences of people of color so our bodies can be in these

classrooms but our cultures, our minds, our experiences cannot. so this is a new form of segregation, unfortunately, that we're facing that's why these students are speaking up and speaking out against it >> they don't want kids to learn history because they're going tounderstand, you're acting just like segregationists from before let's talk about the book, it's an interesting time to be writing books for children your new book, the making of butterflies, talk about the book and also the series. why and what will children, young people get from experiencing these books >> well, they will first and foremost experience the beauty and the creativity of african american, particularly rural black folklore in the late 1920s that the great zora neal hursten went into these private spaces and collected them and the making of butterflies is actually adapted from a beautiful folk tale of how

butterflies came to be and also, as young people, they'll be able to think about the beauty of their own imagination, of creativity, of different cultures, of different languages, all the things we should be teaching children but apparently republicans don't want us to >> you know, it is interesting that a book like the books you created are very likely to wind up banned in states like florida and alabama and tennessee, that are really being aggressive. they're banning books about dr. king you know, it's so expansive. in your view, if your books join, and i know your books already on their lists of banned books, your other books, have you experienced that that makes young peoplelike, what is the io banning books? >> i think it is certainly som young people, and even som parents who want to get book

more but as you know, joy, sometimes, a child walks into a library and they don't know what the want to read, right? what >> right. >> and now, they can stumble onto that book that's going to create a lifelong reader a book that was taken, where they can see themselves, where they learn more abou themselves learning about othe people so that, to me, is part of the insidious next, or in certai cases, in certain classrooms and florida, they are walkin to libraries and they don't se any books because all of the books have been taken off of the shelves. >> yes, and what do you make o the fact that republicans have decided that anti racism i dangerous? that's your doctrine, and they said it is dangerous >> well, in slavery said abolitionism was dangerous jim crow segregation said civi rights activists were dangerous. and now, white supremacists ar saying that anti racism an

multiculturalism and diversity and all of these things that are seeking to create a societ of inequality are dangerous. and so, to me, i'm not surprised because ever anti-racist movement, ever anti racist intellectual i this country's history has bee called dangerous by people who are trying to conserve racism. >> yes the reality is, if you are ant racist, it's like being anti fascist. that means you are the opposite and maybe you don't want to ow that something that folks might wan to think about doctor ibram x. kendi, thank you, and congratulations on th book series. much appreciated >> thank you, joy. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> still ahead -- baby steps the academy awards, a bit of improvement on diversity and inclusion. but they still got a lg onwa to go. more, next ♪ ♪ ♪ h the pandemic, getrefunds.com can see if it may qualify for a payroll tax refund of up to $26,000 per employee. all it takes is eight minutes to get started. then work with professionals to assist your business

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did not tune into the academ awards last night. i was binge watching something else instead but i did keep a breast of the goings on by the socials, an was thrilled to say that it wa a big night for the very fun very wild independent film everything, everywhere, all at once a quintessential american movi about a chinese american family michelle yeoh became the first self identified asian woman to win best actress her family in malaysia wen appropriately wild and happiness when she was announced. it was the first best actres when for a non white actress i

20 years and almost a second whenever yeoh was also the first person of asian descent to win in a leading acting category. and the fifth person of asia descent to win in any acting category in the oscars 95 year history. there is a bit of her victor speech >> for all the little boys and girls, who look like me, watching tonight -- this is beacon of hope and possibilities. this is proof that dreams -- dream big, and dreams do com true and, ladies, don't let anybody tell you you are ever past you prime. [applause] [crowd chanting] >> never give up >> the first asian actress t be nominated for an oscar, moral or brunch, kept he heritage hidden until after he death due to the racis nonwhite actresses faced i hollywood for decades. overall, it was a huge night

for asian representation yeoh's costar ke huy quan wo for best supporting actor. and the indian feature film ar our are made history by winnin best original song it's also the first indian feature to win an oscar. history was also made in the costume category with ruth carter becoming the first blac woman to win multiple oscars i any category she won for black panther, wakanda forever. and these monumental first are great, period, end of story. but we'll talk, the oscars hav been criticized for a long tim for failing to recognize the talent of black women in general, and a woman directors and to lift the hood on that bit, entertainment weekly spok with four anonymous academ voters about the criticism one academy voting actors that quote, when they get in troubl for not getting viola davis an award, it's like no, sweetheart, you didn't deserve it. we voted, and we voted for the five we thought or best. it's not fair for you to start suddenly beating a frying pa -- frying pan and saying they are ignoring

black people they are really not. they're making an effort viola davis and the lady director need to sit down, shu up, and relax. somebody really said that in real life. just so you remember what some of the folks who make up the jury of the academy awards are really like. still, despite that negativity and heroism, the significanc of everything, everywhere, all at once, winning seven academy awards is important, because i is, as so often said b progressives, who happened t be right about this, representation matters the kind of ruled that asian actors and black actors an latino actors get to embody, that reach beyond stereotypes, the way lgbtq characters are portrayed, and who gets to portray them the stories women directors ge to direct matters. opportunity matters. and, yes, diversity, equity, and inclusion in this very diverse country matters. and it also happens to be good for business it's not a favor to divers talent it's a favor from them to th