hi there, everyone it's 4:00 in new york, a peek behind the curtain on developing

stories we're watching today the first is joe biden heading to monterey park, california the president will deliver remarks on gun safety. we are also following a developing situation out of ukraine involving a u.s. intelligence aircraft that was forced down by russian war planes but we start today with the race to the bottom in the republic primary the leading contenders for the presidential nomination making clear that they will not stand with the fledgeling democracy. a statement from ron desantis in response to a questionnaire than none other than fox news and america's most prominent putin defender tucker carlson reads in quote, while the u.s. has many vital national interests, securing our borders, addressing the crisis of readiness within our military, achieving energy security and independence and checking the economic, cultural,

and military power of the chinese communist party, becoming further entangled in a territorial dispute between ukraine and russia is not one of them and from the disgraced ex-president, no surprise he will not be outdone by ron desantis he agrees. his statement to tucker carlson reads in part, quote, our objective in ukraine is to help and secure europe, but europe isn't helping itself that is very unfair to us. especially since europe takes advantage of us on trade and other things, end quote. it's where we begin today. retired four-star general barry mccaffrey, a former member of the national security council. now an msnbc military analyst is here with us at the table, former congressman, republican congressman and msnbc contributor david jolly is here and john patrick maloney, a former member of the house intelligence committee

congressman, what do you make of this really tech tonic shift of democrats being the ones on national security to be able to tie standing with democracies to keeping us safe at home? >> yes, it's -- it's a real headspinners for those of us who grew up believing the republican party to be serious about first soviet then later russian aggression let's bear in mind, ron desantis is not at odds with democrats. he's at odds with mitch mcconnell. he's at odds with marco rubio and nikki haley -- >> the late john mccain. >> certainly john mccain, who understood how to stand up to aggression and so it really is a serious schism in the republican party but the stakes are what's really important, that we are now going to apparently have a debate in the next presidential election about whether we stay engaged in nato, if we stand up to vladimir putin or let him run wild in europe that's -- that's a huge choice the american public needs to

make and we need to be clear about who the good guys and the bad guys are in ukraine. >> the other thing is, it's not a choice between war and no war, it's a choice between, and i think the ukrainians would say this, i think the biden administration would say this, ukrainians are fighting a war against russia we are aiding them, we are vested in their success, because a be-lidge rant and brazen and emboldened russia is a danger to us >> you sound like a traditional republican in that moment, nicolle. >> not very often these days >> the level of ignorance by ron desantis, donald trump, and everybody else in the caucus who is trying to say we need to withdraw u.s. support for ukraine, the level of ignorance is just profound absolutely profound, because it actually ignores the very bad actor you just described it is not ever -- we don't wake up as a country and say, let's go see what other countries we need to project our posture indc

security here at home, which means keeping in check vladimir putin and a russia that would prefer that the west withdraw so they can march whatever territory they want. this is about vladimir putin this is not about ukraine. which is why the level of ignorance is so scary and shocking and what ron desantis basically did yesterday was not deliver a message to republican voters or to ukraine, he delivered a message to vladimir putin, that says, if you hold on in the '24 election is over, i just might be your guy that makes all your problems go away ron desantis communicated to vladimir putin yesterday, donald trump, as well, it's a terrifying moment. it's why the folks like lindsay graham today, what is going on we need to reset the republican dogma on this -- >> he should have thought about that before he became donald trump's caddie general, people have said

publicly, if trump were president at this time, there is no way ukraine would be in the fight as they are. he would have ceded it to vladimir putin and the russians. what is the very real danger of this rhetoric at this moment in the war? >> well, one thing, the only thing i would disagree with is that this is ignorance i think governor desantis deliberately, knowingly, attacking to the far right to pick up trump wing nuts in a primary election season, he's very well educated, very knowledgeable, a vetten tra, worked with navy s.e.a.l.s on deployment, he knew exactly what he was doing and what he did was, i would full little concur, he did massive damage to u.s. solidarity with nato interests in europe and our own national security interests and he told the russians, hang in there, it's quite likely all we got to do is endure for another 24 months and these people will be ours.

following which, we will see threats to the baltic republics, poland, romania, you name it so, it was a terrible statement, he knew what he was doing. his political insiders will say, well, come on, the general election will tack to the center but this is serious damage he just did to the united states. >> the general is absolutely right about that, and it, you know, our viewers have followed these characters enough to understand that at the beginning of mike flynn's lie that will get him fired, ultimately, hat 14, 24 days into the trump presidency, about his conversations with sergey kislyak, is this pre-existing relationship with russia, and at the core of mike flynn's radicalization is this alliance, this sort of seeing the world the way vladimir putin does, this white christian nationalism. and i think it's an important story in terms of understanding, the republicans aren't going to tack to the center

they don't see the center anymore. this is about growing and nurturing that view that i think people like mike flynn and maybe if these positions stay consistent through the general and primary elections, this is the new republican party >> well, and let's remember, there's a motive, and it's not just a political motive of appealing to the republican base donald trump, many of us believe, dog whistled vladimir putin to meddle in our elections. and to -- and to unleash, you know, bots on twitter, and to spread disinformation, and to try to use american public figures. all of this has been well-documented, by the way, it's not some theory, to spread those lies, particularly about ukraine, let's not forget. it wasn't that long ago that people like, you know, members of congress, you know, ron johnson, devin nun neces, were spreading russian information.

this incentivizes the russians to meddle to the benefit of ron desantis and donald trump. i think donald trump in particular has always believed there's some big source of help they'll get out there by leaks on his opponents or smearing them, or having this bot and this troll army unleashed. and that's very serious, because it's not just how bad the implications are for the ukra ukrainians, who are hanging by a thread, and to say, just, to encourage russia is immoral. but i think they think there's a practical benefit in the campaign >> to your point, a former mueller investigator said to me, i think about 18 months ago now, that the next russian election interference won't run afoul of any laws they're that good. they'll just get their signals from which candidates, who, in questions asked by tucker carlson, there are no accidents here, and answered by ron desantis and donald trump, it's abundantly clear who russia would be interested in aiding. >> well, we've already seen it

it's just that simple. and that's right that was the evolution let's remember, from 2016, when they did it, to 2020, when what they did is simply send care packages to people like devin nunes, from known russian intelligence assets in ukraine and elsewhere. giuliani had a hand in spreading this information, that was intentionally designed to inject into the bloodstream misinformation, disinformation, smears, and that' a very dangerous road to go down. and so when you combine that with the policy implications of what it would mean for the ukrainians, for nato, it's really unbelievable. and thank god there is at least part of the republican hair by that is fighting back against that, but who wins that is unclear. >> it's not where the heat is on the right, right >> clearly >> mitch mcconnell, lindsay graham, donald trump's caddie. i don't want to gloss over there, because i think even in the center and the left, there's fatigue with the russia story,

but here's why this matters. i think what the right was good at was making the russia story feel exhausting, right i don't want to read mueller's first volume he didn't charge anyone with anything the first volume shows a very clear mission alignment between the trump campaign, trump candidacy and vladimir putin what they have improved upon in this cycle is what you just said, and what barry just said, a policy agenda, which is stripping military aid, stripping joe biden's role as the leader and putting together this coalition to help them win a war against russia with the rhetoric of bringing along this sort of white christian nationalism to be on russia's side. the truth about russia is they are an adversary in the clearest and most basic sense of the word but republicans are invested in muddying those waters. >> russia clearly has an interest in gaining land outside of its territory and it has an interest in weakening the united states and the way it can weaken the u.s. domestically, as we saw in

'16 and still seeing, is by creating chaos, by sowing distrust for that, they found an ally in donald trump someone who is so transactional that he is would a moral compass. so, the way you solve the russian/ukraine issue is just invisit that ukraine give them the land it's a territorial dispute, to use desantis' terminology. the way you deal with turkey, you just look the other bay while they create atrocities so, he is a transactional person without a moral compass. ron desantis represents the more political class of republicans without a moral compass. if joe biden is for it, if this is joe biden's effort, i'm going to be against it and it is without any subject matter evaluation, without any qualitative instinct it is simply, if joe biden is doing this, we have to oo ppose it that creates sufficient chaos. it did it for a different reason, and i take the generals caution in calling it ignorant we can certainly debate how

intelligence desantis is -- >> for the next few hours. >> the repercussions he did today, i would suggest it represents a lack of qualification for higher office. >> i do, too, but not in the eyes of republican voters, who thought trump could handle the job. let me go back to the other piece of this, that is russians are watching our mosh pit. here are the details of that incident today involving u.s. and russian aircraft the pentagon announcing just hours ago that a russian jet harassed and then collided with a u.s. reaper drone over the black sea, forcing the u.s. to crash the drone into the ocean according to a statement from u.s.-european command. several times before the collision happens, the russians jets dumped fuel on and flew in front of the drone in a reckless and environmentally unsound and unprofession al manner. one of the russian jets struck the propeller of the drone,

causing u.s. forces to make the decision to bring it down. for its part, the russian ministry of defense has denied reports that its aircraft came into any contact with the drone. now, general mccatckachccaffreya little bit like the opening scenes in "top gun," the first one, with the roles reversed here they were obviously brazen, if you are to believe u.s. defense and intelligence officials, which we do. and it represents an escalation. and we went back and looked back in october, there was a similar lawyer such event where the russians almost brought down a british intelligence aircraft. and i know this is one of the things that haunts our national security professionals, especially in the military side, that something like this could precipitate an escalation. >> well, no question that this was a deliberate provocation i find it highly unlikely it was just a lack of discipline on the part of selected russian fighter aircraft

and they were trying to bring it down, not just harass it i mean, there was no pilot there to be intimidated. and we have seen a pattern of action along these lines, to include, along the natoboard eer countries, with poland and elsewhere. we have to recognize that putin is desperate, strategically, he's in checkmate. he sees no way out the current military campaign is primarily against ukrainian civilian targets he's trying to portray this as a war of russia against nato, not ukraine. he's doing that for domestic consumption. so, we're going to have to sit down and think through this carefully. the absolute dominant requirement is hustle military technology into the ukrainians and allow them to beat up and unravel the russian army in the next two years or next year.

that means missiles, advanced tanks, better air defense, and i think we're inadequately postured to do that at this time >> and what is the impact on that flow of the aid that you just detailed, of this sort percolating, rising political conversation on the right in our country? >> well, you think you make the central point, what is now almost unrecoverable is the russians and many people see desantis as the likely republican candidate so, he's put on the table not a warning to the ukrainians, they're fighting for their lives, for their freedom, for their families what he's put on the table is doubt in nato about the viability of the u.s. continuing to be partner on this second-largest economy on the face of the earth, which is that of the eu. i don't think that can be done away with now.

so, we're stuck with the reality, even though mcconnell and rubio and senator graham and other republicans have spoken up, this is a huge, damaging blow to the confidence of our nato allies, and indirect, by the way, the south koreans, japanese, and the australians, and the u.s. commitment to maintaining defending freedom. >> i have no interest in covering the republican primary of 2024. i'm not even that interested in covering the presidential election the general election but i am terrified that what general mccaffrey just pieced together isn't on anybody's minds. oh, desantis and his woke b.s. -- it is a horrific thing that he's doing, but in a lot of ways, this is just as awful and deserves as much attention >> just look at the contrast i mean, here we have joe biden, be the first to tell you, he's an imperfect human like all of

us, but he went to europe, he rode on a train for ten hours, the president of the united states, without the benefit of the area being controlled by the united states military, first time in any of our lifetimes, a president has done that, and he walked the streets of ukraine with president zelenskyy and here have you a guy, 35 years younger than he is, who can't walk into a studio and find a backbone to stand up for what's right and that is a choice and you can add it to a very clear contrast the president will be able to draw with things like going after social security, going after medicare, and to put that on the table, the entire nato alliance, because this -- and by the way, ron desantis disagreed with ron desantis as recently as 2016 let's remember, when it was barack obama, he thought we weren't tough enough >> right >> in crimea and so, of course, this is a cynical move for him to appeal to the republican base, but to the general's point, it's not one you can come back from, and the russians heard it loud and clear and so boy, i'm proud to

be supporting the president, who knows right from wrong and who has got the guts to stand up with the good guys >> you know, there's a kernel and a seeding that trump and his allies do, and i think it's not implausible that withdrawing from nato is something that's debated in the republican primary. >> oh, i think donald trump regrets that he didn't do it >> he tried. h.r. mcmaster and powell and others kept them in. >> so, he's crushed the trad traditional orthodoxy of the republican party and the people that are following in his footsteps, the ron desantises and kari lakes t sometimes we go too far from holding scorn and judgment from our political actors, the notion of giving everybody equity >> that doesn't happen here. >> no, no, i don't >> you can't accuse me of that >> true. but that's part of your job and why millions of americans love

what you do. >> i was listening and i'm like, no, i don't do that. >> ron desantis deserves the scorn of the country today for suggesting that the u.s. and the west should be weaker in the eyes of vladimir putin that's what he said yesterday and he needs to be nailed against the wall for that. and if we just treat it, oh, it's a foreign policy difference with the administration and should republicans take over we're going to withdraw support -- no, because you're talking about our domestic u.s. security and the security of the entire west. republican and democratic presidents that from seeded the last one all agreed on that. but apparently donald trump and ron desantis are willing to compromise our own security and the security of the west for their own political ma lev lance and ignorance. >> go ahead. >> for a political benefit that they perceive. >> that's right. >> they are tradinge ing -- the transaction is, they are trading u.s. security, the lives of ukrainians in the fight right now, think about the war crimes committed there, there's a horrific humanitarian tragedy

going on there, and they are willing to trade our security interest and the lives of our brave ukrainians for it. it's really disgusting and i would add kevin mccarthy to that list let's not let him off the hook, because he won't return the ukrainians phone calls >> he refused to go. >> has rebuffed their overtures to say, come let us show you >> since we both served in this chamber, the actual level of ignorance in the chamber, like, these are not people qualified to be dealing with national security decisions we watched them every single day. there's a bell curve when it comes to intellect and ignorance in the congress, a lot of stupid people in the united states congress on the republican side of the aisle >> that's the mike drop moment in my book i wanted to press further, because it's not just that there are a lot of stupid people, they're being led by a cable host who we know from the dominion lawsuit that doesn't believe the b.s. he spews every night. he thinks a lot of his booked guests are idiots, in the case

of sidney powell and f-word b-word this is how he's leading the republican party on ukraine. >> worth asking ourselves, since it is getting pretty serious why do i hate putin so much? has he ever called me a racist has he threatened to get me fired? as he shipped every middle class job in my town to russia did he manufacture a worldwide pandemic is he teachi ing my children does he eat dogs these are fair questions, and the answer to all of them is no, and vooipladimir putin didn't dn of that. >> it's hard to watch, but it's important to see generalccaffrey, just explain -- explain why putin is

an american adversary? >> well, you could make a better case for the late muammar gadhafi than vladimir putin. putin is an -- invaded a country. there is great indiscipline in russian armed forces which only partially explains a policy of actual genocide against ukraine. but the biggest threat mr. puti poses isn't to the west, but to the russian people he's taken them back from the promise of the early democratic years, gorbachev, even yeltsin, and he's reconstructing the stalin era he's terrified eastern europe, the nato countries, understandably, remember what the russians are capable of. so, you know, at the end of the

day, it's just impossible to understand why a smart person like tucker carlson, except for money and clicks on his website, is making these arguments. it's just damaging to the united states value systems and our foreign policy >> it's damaging in a way that it is -- i guess we should be confounded by any decisions that rupert murdoch makes, again, after reading the private conversations amongst themselves, they don't believe in what they broadcast, they know they can't control their most prominent anchors and we know their board has no ability to dissuade things that are dangerous to democracy, but as russia becomes more brazen, i mean, you think about what could have happened today, right with russian fighter jets attacking and targeting u.s. aircraft this was unmanned. what if it hadn't been and you got a network that has operationalized pro-putin propaganda >> roger ailes once said, i'm

not in the politics business, i'm in the ratings business, and i'm winning. and i think that distinction, you always have to keep in your mind you know they lied for money, for ratings, about the election. they lied to their viewers recently as last week about january 6th for money, for ratings. i got to tell you, on this one, i don't know which is worse, lying to your viewers for ratings and money, or believing it and i think when you get into the white chris ctian nationalim that is swirling around both the domestic violence we've seen in our own country, and their affinity for countries like russia under putin, i think there is a dangerous substantive position there, not just a cynical calculation. but they're both terrible. >> general mccaffrey, thank you so much for rooting this conversation in your expertise david jolly is back with us later. sean patrick maloney is here

with us, as well. we are just minutes away from a press conference from joe biden. he's in monterey park, california, an asian american community that is tragically no stranger to the epidemic of gun violence 11 people there were killed two months ago we'll bring you those remarks coming up. plus, the disgraced, twice impeached ex-president blaming his former vice president for everything that happened on january 6th. and in doing so, he might have just largely admitted to being behind the coup. perhaps the special counsel's office was listening all those stories and more when "deadline itwhe house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere today. sic♪ scotts daylawn saving is the biggest deal of the year. stock up early and save up to $20 dollars on the best scotts products. ♪♪ what will you do? will you make something better? create something new?

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for all of our challenges, this one is a uniquely american problem. the relentless pace of mass shootings and gun deaths on a scale that no other nation faces. leaving multiple u.s. presidents politically constrained to stop them and with the added challenge of regularly and frequently comforting victims' families and communities torn apart by gun violence. in the case of president joe biden, status quo is apparently unacceptable his push to do more to curb gun violence and end our nation's addiction to easy access to weapons of war is in focus today. in just a few moments, president biden will deliver remarks and sign an executive order meant to increase the numberof background checks. he'll do so in an important place. monterey park, california, a predominantly asian american suburb of los angeles that unfortunately and tragically is no stranger to the scourge and epidemic of gun violence

11 people there were killed at a lunar new year celebration just two months ago there have been at least 77 mass shootings, though, since then. that's according to one count. it is evidence of a sweeping nationwide problem that now effects every community in our country and is one that the president is prepared to shine a sustained spotlight on nbc news reports that the executive order that the president is set to sign would, quote, direct attorney general merrick garland to clarify the statutory definition of who is engaged in the business of selling firearms an authority detailed in sweeping bipartisan gun legislation president biden signed into law last year after the mass shooting at an elementary school in uvalde, texas. quote, this news would mean f fewer guns would be sold without background checks, and therefore, fewer guns will end up in the hands of felons and domestic abusers an administration official said on a call with reporters previewing today's news. the president's remarks today are also intended to address the

pain and the lingering, enduring, ongoing trauma experienced by victims and survivors in the communities affected by gun violence take a listen to brandon shay, the man who disarmed the gunman in california and met with the president a few moments ago. >> it's been more than a month since the incident, and while things have improved, there are still challenges i've been working hard with my therapist on healing and i've noticed some progress. my emotions aren't as intense and i haven't had as many flashbacks however, there are still triggers that catch me offguard, feeling anxious and on the edge of paranoia. some days i feel like i'm taking two steps forward and one step back despite this, i'm determined to keep moving forward and continue to seek out help >> wow let's bring in nbc news white house correspondent, my colleague mike memoli, live in monterey park.

plus, the president of every town for gun safety, john f fineblatt is with us, and sean patrick maloney still with us. mike, tell mel what we'll hear from the president today >> well, nicolle, i think what we're going to see from president biden today is sort of an encapsulation of where all of his experiences throughout his career as a legislator, as a political leader, but also somebody who has experienced grief in his own life, really come together. it's interesting, as the white house was laying out what he was going to do in this executive order, i asked, you know, the question, which was, it seems that he has exhausted everything a president can do on his own authority already, but they pointed to the safer communities act, which the president signed into law last year, that was that bipartisan breakthrough after the horrific shooting in uvalde that the president was able to see through, and that really created a template where the president was able to build on those successes with more successes. it created sort of more opportunities for the president to take additional executive

actions. with him as a political leader comes into play here, we're seeing the president, the centerpiece of this executive order is really doing everything you can short of legislation to get to universal or close to universal background checks. this is going to potentially lead to closing two of the biggest loopholes in the background check system, that's the gun show loophole, the internet sales loophole, by having the attorney general classify the -- engage in the business of selling firearms to include anybody who is selling a gun for profit that really show what the white house is trying to do, what president biden is trying to do, he knows background checks is an 80/20, a 90/10 issue with this country, and by calling for this action on his own and by trying to bring congress ultimately along with him, he is really doing what you're going to see a lot of this year, which is putting congressional republicans as far out of the mainstream in our politics as possible but you mentioned brandon tsay, as well. the president was able to greet him at l.a.x. when he landed

he's in the motorcade coming to the site with the president. this is also a moment for moral leadership, as well. and the president is going to be obviously speaking to the country about the toll here, but also then meeting, there's a lot of time, nicolle, in the president's schedule after his remarks on the ground here, for him to spend time, not just with brandon, but with some of the other both heroes and the victims' families, as well going back to that role we've seen him so often as the cob s consoler in chief, as well >> jung, i want to read from your reporting in "the l.a. times. for some asian americans, feeling safe means owning a gun. the mass shootings at monterey park ballroom dance studio and in rural half moon bay follow a rise in anti-asian hate crimes during the pandemic, along with violent crime increases in major california cities. for a small but growing number of asian americans, owning a gun seems like the only way to feel safe research shows that asian americans, who have some of the

lowest gun ownership rates in the country, have been buying more firearms in the last two years, as have other racial groups this -- i guess after reading your very detailed an data-driven reporting, made a lot of sense, but it was still a surprising bit of reporting. tell me more >> yeah, we've spoken toll several gun owners who bought a gun for the first time, because of mass shootings in monterey park and half moon bay, as well as the fact that they feel more danger in general, because of the rise in crime in cities that they live in, such as l.a. and we spoke to some of the gun store owners, as well, who have told us that one gun store owner told me that pretty much everyone who wanted to get a gun had already bought a gun in the last couple years, and that, you know, even with the latest mass shooting, they are increasing customers because of that.

and i think all of those point to the fact that even though asian americans are the least likely to own a gun, that we see a growing number of asian americans who are interested in buying a gun, because of all the pandemic distress and anti-asian hate and mass shootings and a lot of other factors that have gone into compounding the anxiety of asian americans >> john, it's this vicious cycle, though, right i mean, the mass shootings have, as one of their causes, easy access to guns, but the easy access to guns make it easier for a mass shooting to take place, have the result of more people wanting to use that easy access to arm themselves how do you break the cycle, john >> i -- i've been looking at this issue for a few moments you know, the last couple years have really been the years that, for a lot of asian americans

like myself, the issue of gun violence became really real. not that it wasn't real before, but we had a shooting in atlanta in 2021, we had a shooting in church last year, we had monterey park and half moon bay, all of those led to a lot of asian americans that this is very real for the community. how do you -- i mean, i don't know, right? monterey park city council passed a resolution supporting assault rifle ban, supporting putting a buffer between gun store and sensitive areas, such as schools those actions could help having said that, there is also an issue of mental health and how that's been stigmatized in the asian american community, especially in its elders, so, that has to be addressed, as well so, i think a lot has to be answered >> back ground checks are an

85/15 issue. you don't have a lot of 85% issues that all americans agree on, background checks are one of them >> without a doubt i mean, the truth is that i haven't ever worked on an issue that had so much support and it's what the president is going to announce today is really action that reflects where the american public stands i mean, the president's announcement on expanding background checks as much as possible is a home run for public safety. full stop. it's going to save lives it's going to make sure that guns don't get into criminal's hands and other dangerous people's hands, and we're going to be a safer community because of it. >> let's listen into president joe biden. >> we all saw a day of festivity and light turn into a day of fear and darkness. a holiday of hope and possibilities marked by horror and pain vibrant dances, music, replaced by vigils and memorials. 11 souls taken

nine injured private mourning made public that sense of safety shattered survivors will always carry the physical and emotional scars families left behind who will never be the same. one of the worst mass shootings in california history. a tragedy that has pierced the soul of this nation here in monterey park. the san gabriel valley the heart of the asian american community. my dear friend judy cho, congresswoman and chair of congressional asian pacific caucus, senator alex padilla, champion for this community, the entire state my good friend supervisor hilda solis and all elected officials, law enforcement, first responders, faith leaders, community members, all here today.

you've shown up for this community, and i know you always will to the families of victims who spent time, i will get a chance to meet with today, and whom vice president harris spent time a few weeks ago, i'm here on behalf of the american people. to mourn with you, to pray with you, to let you know you are loved and not alone. every case is different, but i know what it's like. i know what it's like to get that call. i know what it's like to be told i know what it's like to lose a loved one so suddenly. it's like losing a piece of your soul like a black hole in your chest, you feel like you're being sucked into. suffocating. hardly able to breathe the anger, the pain, the depth of the loss so profound, it's

hard to explain. the suddenness tends to magnify the grief. as time passes, the shock and numbness slowly make way for the sobering reality of their absence. an empty chair at the dinner table. birthdays, anniversaries, the holidays without them every day things, small things, the details you miss the most. the scent when you open that closet door. the park they used to stroll in. the morning tea shared together. the bend of a smile. perfect pitch of a laugh as judy shared with me, this is a tight-knit community with intergenerational households and deep reverence and respect for its elders

community has opened its heart and its homes to friends and neighbors, and stood strong throughout the pandemic, as an anti-asian hate crimes rose. community that in the face of horrific tragedy has become a symbol of hope and resilience. pushing forward together, healing together, people from all places and backgrounds rallying to show their love and support. raising money from funeral costs and memorials. providing counseling and translation services to the victims' families. providing and proving that even with heavy hearts, we have unbreakable spirits. as a nation, we remember them. immigrants from china, the philippines, vietnam, taiwan all of whom found a home in america.

a pillar of the community, a beloved manager and dancer and star ballroom. he walked patrons to their cars at night helped new immigrants find jobs. children and grandchildren will carry on his legacy in the spirit of one of his favorite chinese proverbs, cherish the people in front of you cherish the people in front of you. 72, mr. nice, for his kindness, positivity, his smile. free spirit, always willing to help and lend a hand he died shielding his dance partner. 57, devoted mom, wife, sister, woman of faith a a always there to help others, bringing ing food and newspapeo family members who had trouble walking.

always, always working tirelessly with her husband to build a future for their three children 62, known assister sunshine. she loved to play cards, piano, weekly volleyball game always sharing her homegrown plants and vegetables to neighbors and friends. dedicated mom, married nearly 40 years. husband and wife who were always together, even in their last dance. valentinoal alvero, servant of god, life of the party, storyteller, made the whole room laugh. man devoted to his children and his grandchildren.

mai-mai, 65, avid dancer who would visit the studio every weekend. often leaving snacks behind for her classmates she radiated positive energy through her laughter, her kind words, and her smile 67, refugee, community builder, cherished friend, known for her kindness, her sweetness, her generosity beloved family, the center of her world. diana toms, 70 years old, devoted wife, daughter, mother, grandmother, who loved to sing karaoke. a giver and adventurer who loved to travel the world. charles yao, 76, grateful, reflective, believed in living life to the fullest. constantly showed his family and friends and showered them with

warm words of encouragement, hope, and love 64, lifelong learner, he retired as a business manager and was pursuing a second career as a pharmacist while caring for his elderly mother a man we loved by his wife, children, and friends for his compassion, his determination, and his wisdom lillian lee, 63. matriarch with absolute strength, optimism, and grace. he daughter wrote, stolen as a grandmother whose granddaughter spent many nights s nestled between her loving arms. all of them lived lives of love, sacrifice, and service, for

their families, for their community. they represent a bigger story, who we are as americans. embodying the simple trust that our diversity, our diversity is the strength of this nation. we saw that strength in maria -- creating a warm welcome space -- that strength and brand don tsay, who met me at the airport, who jill and i have gotten to know 20 minutes after the rampage at the star ballroom, brandon saw the same shooter walk into his family's own dance studio, just two miles away, pointing a gun at him in an instant, he found the courage to act and wrestle a semiautomatic firearm away

brandon saved lives. he protected the community [ applause ] you got it brandon, stand up. [ applause ] half moon day, just two days later, we saw heroism from police officers, firefighters, and other first responders who rushed into the danger to save lives. as many of you know, jill and i invited brandon as our guest at the state of the union message, because we wanted the country to know all of you. not just brandon, all of you the character of this community, the faith you have in this

community, the pride we see it in you across all of american life. just this week, a film about resilience and power of the asian american immigrant family made history at the oscars echoing the heart of so many in this community we also hear the message we've heard too often, including two years ago this week after the spa shooting in the atlanta area, enough do something we remember and mourn today, but i'm here with you today to act. today, but i am here with you today to act last year after the mass shooting in buffalo, new york, and uvaldi, texas, i signed into law after being both places a bipartisan safer communities

agent. most significant gun safety law in almost 30 years in addition to me signing more executive actions to reduce gun violence than any of my predecessors today i am announcing another executive order that will accelerate and intensify this work to save more lives more quickly. first, executive order keeps firearms out of dangerous hands as i continue to call on congress to require background checks for all firearms sales. [ cheers and applause >> meantime, in the meantime kp directs my attorney general to take every lawful action possible to move us as close as we can to universal background checks without new legislation i just -- this is common sense check whether someone is a felon, domestic abuser before they buy a gun the executive order also expands

public awareness campaigns about red flag orders, laws, which my son, before he died, the attorney general in delaware, was a great proponent of, so more parents, teachers, police officers, health providers and counselors know how to flag for the accord that someone is exhibiting violent tendencies, threatening classmates or experiencing suicidal thoughts that make them a danger to themselves and others, and temporarily remove that person's access to firearms and it promotes this executive order safe storage for firearms. something every responsible gun owner agrees with. second thing is does the executive order ramps up the efforts to hold the gun industry accountable. the only outfit you can't sue

these days it calls for an independent government study that analyzes and exposes how gun manufacturers aggressively market firearms to civilians, especially minors, including by using military imagery and it directs the attorney general to publicly release alcohol, tobacco and firearms inspection reports of firearms dealers who are cited for violations of the law. [ applause ] that way policymakers can strengthen laws to crack down on those illegal gun dealers and public can avoid purchasing from them third, the executive order improves federal coordination to support victims, survivors and their families and communities affected by mass shootings the same way fema responds to aur natural disaster in california and around the nation and will help folks recover and

build after -- they help folks rebuild after wildfires and super is storms and droughts we need to provide more mental health support for grief and trauma [ applause ] and more itfinancial assistance when the family lose as sole breadwinner or a small business shoots down due to a lengthy investigation. last week i laid out in my budget we invest more in safer communities and expand access to mental health services for those affected by gun violence congressional republicans -- [ applause ] -- should pass my budget instead of calling for cuts in services or defunding the police or abolishing the fbi as we hear from our maga republicans. let's be clear none of this absolves congress the responsibility from the responsibility of acting

to pass universal background checks, eliminate gun manufacturers' immunity from liability, and i am determined once again to ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. [ cheers and applause i led that fight in the ban in 1994 ten years that law was in place, mass shootings went down our republican friends let it expire when -- ten years later and mass shootings tripled since then tripled. so let's finish the job. ban assault weapons. ban them again do it now. enough do something do something big [ cheers and applause folks, let me close with this. scripture says the lord is near

to the broken-hearted and saves the crushed in spirit. a lot of us have been there. we gather here today, i know your hearts are broken i know your spirits are strong as you remember and heal, i know the light of your loved one once again is going to lead you forward. it takes time. i tell everyone, at least it did with me, it takes time but i promise you, i promise you the day will come when the memory of your loved one brings a smile to your lips before it brings a tear to your eye. the tear will never fully go away but when you have the smile first, that's when you know, that's when you know you're gonna make it. you are going to know you are

going to make it my prayer for all of you that day will come sooner than later. but i promise you it will come god bless you all. i admire you so damn much. [ cheers and applause xu president joe biden doing what he does best, speaking about an issue he has been leading for decades in front of people who are, many of them, very much still grieving the loss of loved ones and a brutal act of mass gun violence in their community. sean patrick maloney, you have seen this president dothis up close, you have seen him doing it behind the scenes just talk about this kind of event and this issue for him >> well, it's nice to have a president who cares.

i mean, just that simple and that it doesn't just feel it and believe it and care about it and can identify with the horrible grief and loss these families are feeling because he has been through it in his own life, but a president who has translated that concern into action because the executive actions taking are important, but they build off a legislative achievement which is the biggest thing we have done in 30 years while there is more to do, he supports that, too, banning assault weapons and the rest so i think americans should be proud that they have a president who both understands this terrible grief and who can do something about it and i was struck and we were mentioning this off camera that we saw the incredible success of the asian american community on that stage in the oscars with incredible achievements and finally the recognition that came with it but what a reminder that when those stars walk off that stage they have to worry about the

personal safety, hate crimes, they have to worry about all of the things that are happening in communities not just in monterey, but here in new york city, around the country, the increase in hate crimes and violence against that community. we have real work to do and it's not just on guns it's about on the rise of hate and bigotry in america. >> we are going to cover later in the show the fbi is out with the new hate crimes data and attacks against asian americans are at unprecedented highs you can't take away the ex-president and his administration's role in terming covid the kung-flu in the more recent attacks on elaine ciao, the wife of speaker mitch mcconnell. you are right. the contrast not just what this president is doing at a policy level, but how he is deciding to use that moral bully pulpit couldn't be more stark. >> truly important it's not just the aapi community. it's the lgbtq plus community. it is people who aren't born in

the united states. it's wherever the maga crowd can find an enemy, whip up hate and fear and innocent people get hurt sometimes when there is ready access to weapons, you have these horrific episodes. so, again, we have been talking a lot this hour about the choice that's coming up this is one more area where the choice is really clear the democratic party is on the side of doing something about gun violence we have done a big thing we have more to do. >> every town has been aiding, frankly, politiciantitions in both parties i want to move towards what you accurately have talked about is 80/20, 90/10 issues in terms of background checks. what is the fuller policy set of solutions? you know, especially for a president that seems so willing to give it a shot? >> look, i hate that we have to acknowledge that the executive actions he announcing goes beyond just background checks,

which is a 80/20, 90-10 issue, but building on the bipartisan legislation passed this summer by making here that people understand how to use red flag laws, which are so important in preventing gun suicide and preventing mass shootings. we know that the application of them across the country is uneven and we need to make sure that they are used to the fullest extent and then i think among the most important things he is talking about is really lifting the curtain on the gun industry which has gotten away with murder the truth is that no other industry, whether we are talking about the tobacco industry or the pharmaceutical industry or the auto industry has enjoyed the protections that the gun industry has had and by releasing data that heretofore has been hidden about which dealers are actually breaking thelaw, i think we begin to really unveil the atrocities

that some members of the industry actually are taking a part in. >> john, do you feel like the grip that the nra has this is loosening? and i ask that because it seems like we've just raised the first generation of kids in an active shooter drill life we are starting at 3 they learned how to be very, very quiet in their classrooms and hide from an intruder. as they get older, they learn that that is potentially a gunman i mean, do you see the politics shifting >> without a doubt when you look at sort of the data on the nra, membership is down, their election spending is down, their grip on politics is down, and the truth is, you know, bipartisan legislation that we have all referred to had every democrat on it and 15 republicans on it. it passed over the objections of the nra and if you compare that to the legislation that senator toomey and senator manchin tried

to pass after sandy hook, we had democrats voting against it. we had virtually every republican voting against it there is no question about it. ten years, the nra was treating congress like its clubhouse and tor torpedo legislation, not this year. >> john, sean, thank you for sticking around for the whole hour with us we are going to turn to the next hour of "deadline whitehouse" right now. ♪ >> i am very concerned about mike pence i don't know what he is going to do. >> pence lied to us. he is a treasonist pig and his name will be mud forever now the real battle begins >> bring out pence >> bring mike pence!

bring mike pence it's just after 5:00 in new york the rage and vitriol directed at former vice president mike pence on january 6th was shocking, even to those closest to donald trump. an angry mob descending on the building where he was erecting a gallows outside and ultimately getting a few feet away from him and his family before he was rushed to an undisclosed location why were those rioters so intent on getting to the former vice president to hang him? because donald trump directed them. >> i hope mike pence comes through for us i have to tell you i hope that our great vice president, our great vice president comes through for us he is a great guy. of course, if he doesn't come through, i won't like him quite as much. if mike pence does the right thing, we win the election all vice president pence has to do is send it back to the states

to re-certify and we become president and you are the happiest people. >> so last night trump took his campaign against pence further than that. in doing so, may have confessed to part of the plot currently under scrutiny by special counsel jack smith telling reporters this had pence sent the votes back to the legislatures, they wouldn't have had a problem with january 6th. so many ways you can blame him for january 6th. had he sent them back to pennsylvania, georgia, arizona, the states i believe number one you would have had a different outcome. but i also believe you would not have had january 6th as we call it, end quote. the garbled words out of the twice impeached ex-president's mouth blaming the former vice president for what happened that day. we have to ask the question.

is trump really -- what's more significant, did he admit that the deadly insurrection was his idea and hits fault? and possibly even own up to the state by state fake electors plot as well phil up writes this. this is not a mystery. it has been obvious since the day of the riot that trump bears primary responsibility for the day's violence what makes this different is that trump isn't doing what he has often done before, which is to suggest that the crowd was simply a group of excited patriots who got a bit out of hand now he admits they were reacting to to what pence did not do which necessarily depends on with what trump said pence could do trump traveling the full distance towards owning the coup is where we begin the hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. "washington post" national investigative reporter carol is here, andrew wiseman, a former justice department prosecutor and senior member of robert

mueller's special counsel investigation, eddie, former chair of the department of african american studies at princeton university, and at the table former republican congressman david jolly. they are all lucky for us msnbc contributors carolyn, your books with phil rucker chronicle this so well. i didn't know russia i didn't do it i love russia. putin is so strong why aren't we? i didn't collude so what if i shared a mission. i mean, he always comes around to confessing and defending the confession it would appear he traveled some distance towards doing that last night. >> that's right, nicole. i think we all know donald trump has a lot of different versions of reality and in most of them depending on those versions, in most of them he is the victim, the person who needs to have justice, things need to go his way, and they didn't, and, you

know, i'm reminded that when my colleague and i phil rucker interviewed him at mar-a-lago weeks after president biden's inauguration and after trump's departure he said very clearly why he was doing what he was doing at the podium at the ellipse before the bloody insurrection at the capitol. he said what he wanted was what the crowd wanted i think that's the purist answer we have ever gotten from donald trump. he wanted what they were clamoring for, which was for donald trump to continue to be president no matter what means, no matter what was required to make that happen the pressure that he placed on pence, the target that he put on vice president pence's back on that day with his comments at the ellipse and later his tweet to his supporters who were ravaging the police line and breaking into the capitol, he

basically said, like, it's pence's fault, you know, take him down and that is what people were chanting for who supported donald trump to remain forcibly in power after january 6th >> and, carol, because the pence attacks at the podiums, he was down there campaigning in georgia for the two specials, the two republicans would go on to lose, but he also did it that morning on the ellipse and there were so shocking not just to the general public but to the trump staffers inside the west wing. we learned this is what termed some of his most loyal advisors, it is endangering pence's life in real time that causes alarm or represents a last straw but doesn't this also tie trump to everything that has to happen before pence does the right thing? the only -- the only way pence has a move is if all the fake electors are in place in the

states he named and the others, and that feels like one of the more opaque parts of the coup plot. >> you are exactly right there are three buckets of, i would say, overt acts that the department of justice is looking at in the effort to overturn the will of the people in the presidents election. the fake electors element doesn't succeed for donald trump by the time of january 6th his efforts to try to get doj to just say that there is fraud in georgia and other states also doesn't work his effort to replace the attorney general at the time acting attorney general rosen with an acolyte and sycophant at that time, jeffrey clark, is not successful pence is kind of the -- the pressure campaign on pence, the effort to push him to do what donald trump wants, even though

it wasn't legal, it wasn't constitutional, even trump's own harebrained scheme on that front was declared by his internal legal advisor as impossible and not practical, not defensible legally. all of those steps are failing, and pence, the pressure campaig on pence is the last desperate act, the third rail, and it also ultimately doesn't succeed as you know, nicole, and as you have featured so prominently on your show, pence gets angry and decides, okay, you want your folks to hang me i am staying here. i am going to act adds the commander-in-chief i am going to stay here until the building is here and finish the certification of the election. >> it reminds of some reporting you had before anyone else about pence doesn't get in the car because he doesn't know where they are going to take him this seems to guarantee that at least some questions might be asked about -- and if he ever responds to his subpoena about who he thought would direct

someone to take him and where, right? >> that's right. i think there are so many powerful questions that pence has not answered yet he has written a book, right and given us a very stark account of what things were like for him on january 6th and the days leading up to that. now he said at a dinner this weekend that history will judge donald trump in his account and in our account that was first published he refuse, as he is fleeing really for his own safety and his secret service detail leader is telling him we have to get the heck out of dodge, he refuses to get into his limousine in a subterranean parking area not because he doesn't think an armored car is a very safe place to be, but as he tells his detail leader, i trust you but i don't know who is driving this car and i am pretty sure they are going to drive me out of here he doesn't want to go anywhere he wants to finish, as he says,

finish the job it's almost as if he and nancy pelosi and chuck schumer and mitch mcconnell, you know, they couldn't have been more different this their priorities generally speaking, they couldn't have been more bitter partisan enemies on different days, but on that day they are all alike and sharing one goal let's get this election verified, certified and in the books so we don't have to deal with donald trump anymore. >> it is so amazing to pull back and have that perspective. andrew wiseman, first, what do you make you have these comments second, i remember some contemporaneous reporting about the mueller investigators looking at trump's tweets and missives and he bar offed out attacks on investigators and disclosures and mueller teams at some times asked questions of people about the disclosures i wonder if you think jack smith has any new question because of what trump seems to have copped to here? >> well, you know, i can't say

that the revelations from, you know, in terms of his statements yesterday are anything new remember he started his campaign about being able to commit a violent crime on fifth avenue about committing a sexual assault on women and that there are no consequences. and let's just remember, for donald trump there haven't been consequences there have been civil lawsuits and so far no criminal consequences so for somebody who is at that age, who realized that he can say whatever he wants and there are no consequences, i think that's what we get we get these things that, obviously, from a prosecutor's perspective are potentially very incrim incriminating. i totally agree with the take on his statements that they can be used against him in the same way he is now embracing the idea that he was an extortion victim

and thinks that's going to be a defense in a manhattan criminal case when it's actually an admission. but the real goal it seems to me is you have a complete authoritarian who has learned that he can say anything and everything and can blame mike pence for following the law and saying because you followed the law, you caused me to have to break the law, and so it's your fault because if you had only violated the law, i won't have been forced to engage in an insurrection i mean, it's so unbelievable because it is so contrary to what america is supposed to stand for here and across the globe that it really is so important that there is criminal consequences for these kinds of actions and statements >> andrew, let me go through some of the evidence a this is

public facing because of the work of the 1/6 committee. i agree with you we have had this conversation about accountability specifically on the chaps to hang mike pence. >> i remember pat saying something to the effect of we need to do something more. literally they are calling for the vice president to be f-ing hung and mark had responded something to the effect of, you heard pat, he thinks mike deserves it, he doesn't think they are doing anything wrong, to which pat said something this is f-ing crazy. i understand there to be the rioters in the capitol that were chanting for the vice president to be hung >> so again i want to tie his enthusiasm for the mission statement of the insurrection to, quote, hang mike pence, because he, quote, thinks mike deserves it, to the fake electors plot which is the most

opaque part of the plot. here is a 1/6 investigator questions greg jacobs email exchange with john eastman >> even dr. eastman knew his theory - >> mr. jacob, immediately before you and the vice president were evacuated to a scecure location in the capitol, you hit send on an email to john eastman explaining why hi legal theory about the vice president's role was wrong. you entered your email stating, quote, thanks to your [ bleep ] we are now under siege dr. eastman replied, and this is hard to believe, his reply back to you was, the siege is because you and your boss, presumably referring to the vice president of the united states, did not do what was necessary to allow this to be aired in a public way so the american people could see for themselves what happened

>> and the importance to me seems to be that trump isn't just sitting there with a chorus of different, you know, dip bleeps bar f-ing out stuff he co-signed the east man kouch blueprint. he has co-signed the idea that fake electors manufactured by his own campaign, we heard voicemails, that the legal theory writ bin eastman who actually goes on in testimony to admit they would lose in the supreme court 9-0. but he has co-signed the entire coup plot. it's not just hang mike pence or get mike pence to do the right thing. it is then to usher in those fake slates. and it makes the questions about ron johnson handing a folder to pence on the floor all the more urgent in terms of the need to have them answer by jack smith do you think that's happening? >> i do. i actually think putting this all together is exactly what jack smith is focusing on. you know, this is all of the

piece -- i mean, this is not complicated in terms of what donald trump was trying to do. it's what he said to the department of justice. just say that you have a fraud investigation because that's going to give the united states senators and congressmen enough of a -- that's going to give the states, who are the people who are corrupt and aluigned a fig leaf he knows he is putting pressure, as we have seen on tape in georgia. frankly, it's no different than what he did with ukraine, which is just say that you have an investigation into joe biden and his son. that's all i need for this fig leaf to basically commit fraud and this is a -- this is not sort of a one-off. this is a real pattern i am absolutely confident that jack smith is pursuing all of that and looking this -- basically looking at the georgia state case in a much larger

context that includes what's happening in georgia as an illustration of this larger crime that the january 6th committee i think just did an incredible job of sort of outlining for us >> what is still uncomfortable, david, is that andrew's last words, the january 6th select committee did an excellent job outlining for us they shouldn't have had to, right? do doj could have interviewed mr. jacob and subpoenaed mr. eastman but all off this was knowable. and a bipartisan congressional committee with some subpoena power, but not finite, you know, not ultimate, and very little access to the kinds of things that doj would have, they formed this committee, they staffed this committee, they did their investigation, they wrote their report, they produced public hearings and they have disbanded before we have any really strong

sign that trump and pence have offered any testimony about any of these events. >> very interestingly, the jurisdiction of the committee and the subpoena power is not necessary for someone to voluntarily come forward and tell the american people what they know, and that someone is mike pence right? it's an interesting moment for mike pence to emerge as a candidate for president with donald trump emerging as well, apparently the gridiron club mike pence gave his, hey, trump was wrong, i was write, i'm now on the right side of history it requires a bit of suspending reality, right because mike pence has so much more to tell and he could be telling it but he is not but if you just stick within kind of republican politics right now, this is an interesting dynamic emerging mike pence cannot take back what he has now said, that donald trump was wrong about january 6th, that what he did unleash violence on me and my family and parenthetically the republican mike pence can't win on that in

a republican primary what he is doing to do is narrowly craft his image as the law and order honest broker deeply tied to the evangelical movement about what is right again suspending reality for a bit. to your point on all of this information as should be out there, mike pence is the one that could share with the country tonight. >> well, he could share it with the country, could share with jack smith we have a federal justice system that is there to protect not democrats from the republican candidates, but the country from people who would incite violence and seek to halt the peaceful transfer of power. those are crimes that have been committed in broad daylight. what happened last night is a notch in trump's belt. it's his way of saying, yeah, i committed crimes, all nine of the obstruction of justice acts in that fancy-schmancy mueller report

his position on impeachment, one and two, isn't i didn't do it's you can't touch me. his position on the coup is now not my fault it's mike's fault. >> yeah. i mean, as i was listening to andrew and you, nicole, i was thinking it's true he is an 780-year-old -- an 80 plus-year-old man never held to account, never asked to be responsible in any serious way for his actions and he has increased in his brazenness. the issue is not with trump. we know where he stands and what he has done. the issue is with us, right? why haven't we held him to account? the question is what is jack smith, when is he going to move on this guy? right? i mean, that's the point the question isn't whether or not he is being upfront with what he did. he has been telling us and pull it back, telling us, pulling it back when are we going to hold him to account? and i think that's -- we have to interrogate our own fear, our

own hesitation and what that has unleashed on the country to seems to me. >> i want to give you the last word one, make sure i didn't speak for you in any way that misrepresented your views. i don't mean to focus on you and drill down, but you are, i think you are -- you are such an utmost trusted authority in this question of accountability your confidence that jack smith is sort of where the rubber hits the road, where the person who is going to be able to hold him accountable, i just need to understand if that's a u100% prediction and if it's based on any information or just your understanding as sort of the gravity of the crimes and the brazenness with which they were committed. >> okay. so to answer your first question, no, you got it totally right. we are having this conversation on and off air so absolutely dead on. and with respect to jack smith, i don't have any inside information. i do think that it's important

to, if you are assessing blame, you know, you and i have talked about sort of concern about where doj was for basically two years on this. i don't think that -- jack smith was not there. he was not assigned to it. it's not fair to say to him. and even looking at -- i have been part of investigations led by really wonderful people who had their, you know, pfoot on th pedal and insisted on speed. i am aware of sort of what the timeframe is jack is no different than those people he is -- he is thorough and is going to be very fast and understands the timeframe here it's unfortunate that he was appointed as late as he was, but he is a career person who has done these cases it's also, i think, really important to remember that he comes most recently from the international court where this idea of holding corrupt leaders

around the world to account and not thinking that to hold them account somehow makes the country a banana republic. he understands by not holding them to account you make a country a banana republic. that's his most recent background and i think he is going to understand if he can prove these crimes, he is going to be going forward and that he is going to do everything he can to turn over every rock. we've seen it in terms of his issuing subpoenas to jared kushner, to ivanka, to mike pence, and then the final point on mike pence, the discrepancy between his book tour, where he said, oh, this is just a dispute between trump following his legal advice and me following my legal advice that is really different to what he said behind closed doors at the gridiron dinner where he said it's his fault and he

endangered my family his story has really changed and it's pathetic that he did it in a way that couldn't be aired on tv and shown on fox news where people could see it and it was, obviously, to my mind deliberate that he did it that way. but it's a real discrepancy in terms of his changing his position, but you could be sure if jack smith gets him in a grand jury he is going to be asked about that. >> yeah, i mean, i think the 64 million-dollar question is did he do that so trump wouldn't see it or because jack wouldn't see it we have to fit it in a break later a big development in the fight protect access to reproductive health care a federal judge in texas could soon ban a key abortion drug not just in texas, but all across the country. a hearing is scheduled for tomorrow "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain,

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mr. trump did not directly tell me to lie to congress, that's not how he operates in conversations we had during the campaign at the same time i was actively negotiating in russia for him he would like me in the eye and tell me, there is no russian business, and then go on to lie to the american people by saying the same thing in his way, he was telling me to lie. >> trump told to me once this an interview while i was sitting with him in trump tower how much he admired john gadi

>> of course he did. >> and he said, you know - >> not george washington -- >> he said he sat in the courtroom and everybody was coming at him and he never shed a tear that's the kind of guy i admire. >> doesn't hide his affinity for mobsters and eddie, back to the point you made, it's about us. it's about, you know, maybe someday the truth will emerge about why the day after trump left office the southern district of new york didn't charge individual one with the crimes they described to him, michael cohen's sentencing memo. maybe it's as reported, not this one, we will do this one but the minute you start deciding which laws to enforce and for whom, you are as political as the sessions bar doj. and i'm not saying that garland and monaco are partisan, but they are as political as their predecessors the inaction is a political choice

>> absolutely. the inaction is a political choice the silence is complicity. it seems to me that there is this worry that the 75 million people who supported donald trump will somehow rebel there is a sense that if you hold a political leader like him accountable, that somehow it will destabilize our democracy, when in fact not holding him accountable will -- has destabilized our democracy in clear and dangerous ways and it also seems very clear when you are reticent like mike pence has been and remains, when you are reticent, you are, in fact, shall we say, emboldening it the fact that he can be brave at a gridiron -- in the basement of a building means absolutely nothing when it comes to the clear and present danger our democracy faces because of this nonsense. >> and andrew wiseman, the people who have sort of gone toe-to-toe with him, they paid a

political price. liz cheney is no longer in congress neither is adam kinzinger. there are still standing there are enough exhibits for the sake of democracy have gone toe-to-toe with him and they are still hear to tell the tale. why aren't there more of them? >> this is something really for psychologists. i mean, this is not the first time in history that we have a problem of people who are complicit either through, as eddie said, silence or, you know, closing their eyes or just not wanting to take a stand and donald trump knows that and uses his power and fear of being smeared to do that i do find the same issue, though, which is why there are not more you know, i remember when i was prosecuting enron, a bunch of us

on the enron task force used to say this case is not about just about the leaders of enron who all went to jail it was about the people who were complicit, who knew damn well what was going on and didn't do anything and that's just, you know, that's just one example. i mean, there is just many, many examples throughout history of that problem and it's hard to see when you -- when it's, in my neck of the woods, you know, which is people who are doing prosecutions at the department of justice or the manhattan or georgia state offices where that's what you are there for. you know you take on those cases. and i just don't understand the people who can get up and not do their job and still look at themselves in the mirror and that really is something that is just hard to fathom. but i think it's something that

trump really takes advantage of. >> well, i'm not a psychologist, but i feel like i should go and learn some things about psychology so i can't speak to why prosecutors do or don't do what they do, but i think we can both speak to why politicians do. jeb bush didn't more frontally confront donald trump, neither did marco rubio, neither did ted cruz, and ted cruz is the most fascinating one for a psychologist really. trump insulted his father, i believe his wife's looks, and there isn't a man -- i mean, it's a race to the bottom. two ter afternoon las in the bowl who would lick the gum off the bottom of trump's shoe more quickly. that is the work for a psychologist, not a cable host but what's concerning to me is i think i believe -- and i don't know why i did -- that prosecutors weren't like politicians, that they were

better and what concerned -- and maybe they will turn out to be better. but they have seemed similarly cowed. >> i would suggest there is one thing they have in common. incumbent elected officials and prosecutors, which is you hold the public trust and that was a real experience for me once elected. you go from candidate, kind of the gloves are off and there are no rules, to this moment it's a solemn moment when you realize you hold the public trust for a certain number of people that is true of prosecutors whether elected or appointed they are being asked on behalf of the country to provide justice where wrongdoing has occurred and i think we're naive if we don't realize we have some really hard days ahead as a country because -- >> say more. >> we are going to see one of two scenarios between now and november 2024. in the heat of a presidential election, it will either be reminded to us that we have two sets of justice, that the rich and the powerful are not held

accountable. we know that donald trump's businesses inflated, the assets and diminished their assets to secure certain tax benefits. we know under the spirit of the law he paid hush-money he know the georgia phone call, the georgia election and the events of january 6th. four matters donald trump is under investigation either he will not be charged and that's a hard reckoning for the country, or we will be a nation in which the former president is now facing indictment or under indictment and running for re-election. that's not something this country has experienced before we look at it in other nations around the globe as a krooerks we have hard days ahead of us. >> which is worse? >> i would suggest justice has to prevail there cannot be two systems of justice. we see it in all walks of life when we are talking about the most powerful office holder in the country, if we are a nation getting elected to office means you can do anything you want, those are even darker days

ahead. >> on this topic of darker days, i want to put a data point out there. i, as a practice, do not and will not broadcast trump's speeches but eddie, he gave a speech darker than anything he has given since his inaugural address, which is sort of the american carnage his i am your retribution speech from the sparsely attended cpac shindig, if it is a blueprint for a second term everyone should read it the only thing as close and frightening is a couple months ago about shooting drug dealers. he has a policy agenda for a second term. in his own words, it's retribution. >> yeah, and, you know, we tend to talk about these things in abstract terms but every time he opens his mouth the air that we breathe becomes even more toxic. we choke on it and it has actual consequences we are going to talk about the

data, about hate crimes, 19 periods increase we are going to see in our rhetoric, we see in our rhetoric, we see in our day-to-day interactions, right, people at each other's throats and so the dark days aren't just simply about politics, right it's going to be born on the backs of particular people in this country and so whenever we have seen this in the past, nicole, the violence that attends it isn't nice and so i'm not trying to be hyperbolic here, but i think we need to understand the implications of this man and those who put their hopes and aspirations in him and i think we need to understand that very clearly so buckle up >> andrew, eddie, david, off that for this conversation when we come back, abortion under assault in america how a single federal judge in texas could upend access to reproductive health care for women nationwide that story is next

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. >> we are robbed of dignity in these situations we still don't know the extent it's going to have on my fertility and ability to have biological kids in the future. and so not only has the state and their bans robbed me of respect and dignity but potentially of the ability to carry my own children.

and so for folks who say that these restrictions are pro-life, i don't think there is anything pro-life about it. >> that was amanda, an interview that changed everything for me at least she is one of five women suing texas over its cruel and inhumane abortion laws tomorrow another lawsuit out of texas could very well ban the most common form of abortion medication not just in texas, but nationwide the case is over the fda's approval of the drug used for miscarriage and abortion treatment and management last week the right wing judge overseeing this case set a hearing date but attempted to conceal the date from the public while the anticipated ruling would not ban abortion medication in the u.s., it would require women and their doctors to rely on a less effective medication with more side effects. as we wait for the judge's

ruling, state-level abortion pill bans are working exactly as the anti-choice zelle outs intended them to do, rob women of their dignity, to control and demean women and their families. case in point. in texas a man filed a wrongful death suit against three of his ex-wives' friends claiming they helped her obtain abortion medication quote, i know either way he will use it against me, the pregnant woman said, according to text messages attached to the complaint. if i told him before which i'm not, he would use it as a way to try to stay with me. and after the fact, i know he will try to act like he has some right to the decision. delete all conversations from today, one of the women later told her you don't want him looking through it joining us now former president of planned parenthood now the co-chair of american bridge kettie kay u.s. special correspondent for bbc studios, also an msnbc contributor. so cecile, it took a minute, but

now there is no looking away from the horrific second-class citizenship that is being female in america amann sa away manda lost her daughter willow she was as pro-life as could exist on planet earth. w she wanted her to live she almost lost her own life she may or may not be able to have babies again because of what she went through medically. i can't imagine there is only one amanda, there are four other codefendants in her -- four other plaintiffs in the lawsuit. talk about what has been put in motion and what is happening in america right now. >> well, unfortunately, nicole, i feel like texas is kind of ground zero in all of these matters. you're right so there are the five texas women who filed suit against the state. one of them was amanda each one of their stories is so compelling these are women with desperately

wanted pregnancies that became medically complicated or unsustainable, that risked their lives and in one case risked the life of one of their twins that they were carrying women had to leave the state in some cases as they say themselves, they were fortunate, they had the resources and the means to actually access medical care outside of the state of texas. but as you say, it's inhumane what the state is doing and certainly the thought that it's potentially depriving women of having a future healthy pregnancy is horrific. but that's not all that's happening. of course, we saw, as you mentioned, this case where an ex-husband is now trying to -- is suing friends of his ex-wife who assisted her potentially -- you know, allegedly in accessing medication abortion. the fear, you could see it through all the text messages that have been released. this is someone who was trying to take care of herself and he

is using this and using the power of the state to go after her and her friends. and then, of course, as we're all waiting for this hearing tomorrow where one judge appointed by president donald trump confirmed on a completely partyline vote by republicans in the united states senate is poised to potentially take away access to the most commonly used form of medication to end a pregnancy. and that would be true, as you know, not only in the state of texas, but all across the country. >> our research suggests that that's never happened before, not for a medical purpose, that medical -- that approval has never been withdrawn for a drug, for a reason other than a medical concern. it is a new frontier it is an escalation and another proofpoint as though we needed one, that the most extreme elements ever the anti-health

care, anti-choice movement are in the driver's seat >> yeah, and just to be clear, this drug was approved by the fda 20 years ago it's safe. it's proven to be safe there is no medical reason concerning safety for it to be withdrawn from the market. the only reason is to stop women getting abortions. when texas implemented its almost total ban on abortions, abortion providers said this won't stop the need for abortions. people need abortions in the case of a pregnancy that has gone wrong or they have a miscarriage and they need help or they need to get an abortion in order to terminate a pregnancy. that woman who got a pregnancy -- who got pregnant and now her ex-husband is suing her, she didn't want t

kept her trapped in that marriage there's an element of control and having power over a woman, clearly. but if you ban this drug, which now accounts for over 50% of abortions in america, this is what kind of the extremists in the abortion debate, they're not happy with just having got as far as they have of having the dobbs ruling they want to go further. they want a federal ban and want to ban every way a woman might seek an abortion, but the truth is they're going to find ways. they're going to get pills from outside the country. demand has surged these abortion april pill providers who provide the pills from austria, doubled since the dobbs ruling people will find a waiting but becomes increasingly dangerous to do so. >> and what women are left with, cecile, is a drug that makes terminating a pregnancy more painful, potentially less

effective. can you imagine if viagra were pulled because people said, no health issues. but i don't think so we don't need those anymore. or something less effective, didn't work as viagra did. you can't imagine a drug that aided an erectile dysfunction were pulled because it wasn't medical. it would never happen. we're only -- this because a federal judge in texas thinks, why not? who's going to stop me >> it is incredible. just as we saw the dobbs decision, we'd never seen a constitutional right in our lifetime stripped away which is what the supreme court did no one can find a case where a judge for strictly political reasons has withdrawn fda approval of a medication, and

it's true, medication abortion is extremely safe. it was approved by the fda more than 20 years ago. millions of women used it safely and effectively. i think it's safer than tylenol. it's a 90% effective rate. so now women are going to be forced to use other medications for no reason other than politics and what it really underscores is why the american people are so mad and as we saw in the elections, they were mad across the country. not just democrats -- republicans, independents, women everywhere politicians have no difference making medical decisions, and that's what this hwhole thing is about. it's about power and control, taking away the rights of people to make fundamental decisions. we're going to have to demonstrate to politicians this cannot happen. >> and that might take a mink but catty, the politics are gno

getting bet we are republicans with people like amanda telling their stories it seems to be getting worse. >> even donald trump has told his party they mishandled the abortion issue in midterm elections. you go through all the states that had abortion referendums and in every state they voted to keep abortion rights in those states, even conservative state like kansas. in michigan it upended the politic of that state. yes, this is going to carry on being a tricky issue for republicans. >> unfortunately it won't slow them we'll stay on it thank you so much for spending time with us on this another break for us we'll be right back.

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thank you so much fo