-- watch this argument from republican state senator steve discount ski >> mister president, i have ye to meet a person in minnesot that is hungry yet today, i have yet to meet person in minnesota that say they don't have access t enough food to eat now i should say that hunger i a relative term, miste president. you know i had a serial bar for breakfast. i guess i'm hungry now >> well, for fact sake, senator, i have never met lots of people but i know they exist. i know lots of them ar suffering. like the one in six children i minnesota who experience foo insecurity, according to the anti hunger groups and the estimated 8% of th children in one of the countie you represent, sir, who live in poverty in 2021 that is up from 7% to th previous year. luckily, your colleagues wer not persuaded by your argument

and they voted to pass the legislation, 38 to 26. once the bill's side, minnesot will join states lik california and colorado in providing free meals to kids so, she won that, senator. and on that note, i wish you all a very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late i will see you at the end of tomorrow ♪ ♪ ♪ >> in december, it was about parental rights. a federal judge in texas ruled that a grant program designe to provide birth control t kids from low income familie was unconstitutional because that program violated parental rights the judge wrote, the court finds no compelling government interest justifies dependenc defendants disregard o plaintiffs parental rights i this case. in november, it was abou discrimination on the basis of sex. that same federal judge signed with lawyers associated with former president trump advisor stephen miller

the judge decided that obamacare -- and title ix ruling agains discrimination on the basis of sex did not protect lgbtq plus patients from discrimination thereby enabling doctors t deny patients gender affirming care in 2021 it was about irreparable harm to libert interests. the same texas judge blocked the biden administration fro acquiring covid vaccines for texas hospital and nursing hom staff. he cited the fifth circuit i asserting a public interest in maintaining the liberty of individuals to make intensel personal decisions according t their own convictions. all of the reasons this judg gave for those rulings sound like arguments that could be made in favor of protectin reproductive rights. but instead, all of thes rulings were in favor of conservative interests and they were all written by trump appointed judge matthe kacsmaryk. conservative lawyers hav described chasm eric as

textualist, a jurist who stick closely to the text of the law on the constitution. the judge has -- dates back to his law school years when he attended meeting and now he's a headliner between 2015 and last month, the judge spoke at - members of his family have painted a picture of him as man with deep religiou convictions, particularly when it comes to pregnancy. when he was a collagen tha abilene christian you know recently, he wrote a column fo a school paper endorsing a republican party platform that would support fetal personhood he wrote the democratic partie ability to condone the federally sanctioned eradication of innocent huma life is indicative of the mora ambivalence under undergirding this party perhaps more than any othe national institution, th liberal democratic party and its ideological affiliates hav facilitated the demise o americas christian heritage. that perspective on the demise of americas christian heritage is echoed in a 2015 articl

kacsmaryk road against same-se marriage he wrote that the sexual revolution sought public affirmation of the lie that th human person is an autonomou blob of silly putty. unconstrained by nature or biology, and that marriage sexuality, gender identity and even the unborn child must yield to the erratic desires o a liberated adults before becoming a judge in 2019, matthew chasm eric worked on antiabortion issues as deputy, general counsel for th religious liberty law firm first liberty. that is the man donald trump nominated to the federal bench during his nomination hearing, before the senate judiciar committee, senator richard blumenthal asked kacsmaryk about the place religiou convictions should have in a courtroom. >> three judges ever applied there religious convictions in the course of making decisions on the bench district court judges included >> they should not >> do you believe they do? >> senator, in working in th

private government and nonprofit sector, i can' recall an instance where i observed a judge imposing th religion but i will say for the recor that it is inappropriate for a article three judge to do so >> that was the response, give by the man who in the coming days will decide a case that could up and access to one o the drugs used in medication abortions nationwide a conservative group calle alliance defending freedom brought a case against the fda in november to challenge the agency's approval of the abortion judge mifepristone. it's an approval that happened more than two decades ago. that group much like the judge overseeing the case ha interesting backstory. it is the group founded in the -- conservation lawyers it has history of failed lawsuits targeting transgender student athletes lawyers for the group also argued in favor of criminalizing homosexuality in supreme court amicus briefs.

that, group on behal antiabortion activists and doctors -- claims that the fda blocked th authority to approve mifepristone ended not adequately studied safety an efficacy aligns defending freedom lawyers want judge kacsmaryk t issue a preliminary injunction ordering the fda to just suspend or withdrawn its approval of mifepristone that would according to some experts effectively bloc access to the drug entirely. today kacsmaryk held a hearing on the challenge of the fda' approval of mifepristone, he reportedly began the meeting b listing a clerk to say let u pray which is a typica occurrence in kacsmaryk' courtroom and then they were off. the hearing -- the plaintiffs and offense eac had two hours to stay thei case he plaintiffs tried to make th case that the drug was not properly vetted when it wa approved in 2000 defense attorneys argued tha the plaintiffs complaints were passed the statue of limitations since the drug we've approved 23 years ago. and we see reporters in th

courtroom say kacsmaryk seem sympathetic to the challenge brought by a length defender freedom. offering the plaintiffs more windows than the defense t clarify and elaborate on their arguments. but he also asked th plaintiffs if they could offer another example of a drug with long-standing approval being pulled from the shelves. they said no in the and you told lawyers, both sides presented a stron case and he would make a decision as soon as possible but both sides could continu to submit relevant examples of case law in the days and weeks to come. so it might not be long before we know how this judge wil rule his decision could be the en of mifepristone, it could be a more narrow injunction on it availability it could be none of the above. but it is a perilous time fo women who are concerned abou access to reproductive choice. and this is not just about women and pregnant people in texas. this is about people acros this country and states like colorado and georgia and pennsylvania and vermont and several others eliminating access t mifepristone will mean that th percentage of counties wit

even one abortion provider wil drop drastically to less tha 3% in some states. that is a huge access proble for people across the united states who might win a nee abortion care. and that is what is at stake joining us now is meliss murray, law professor at new york university, and host of the strict scrutiny podcast, and jessica valenti, writer of the abortion everyda newsletter thank you both so much for being here on this, well, this day. and what a day it has been can you, for people who ar still confused, and i will start with, you melissa how it is possible that you can mak the argument that a drug tha has been in the market for 2 years here, i think almost 4 years in europe, can possibl be questioned in terms o safety and efficacy? what is the argument tha alliance defending freedom i making >> - is essentially arguing that th fda did not take the requisite procedures in approving th struck 20 years ago. now of course the defendants

here, or the fda have said well, you have had a lot o time to make that argument you had some time. and they note that there was a re-approval in 2016 where they actually loosened restrictions on the availability of mifepristone that would've been a opportunity for them to make these arguments as well, and and they didn't so, that's one of the argument that they're making and they're also arguin that there's an injury to th doctors who are bringing thi claim, and atf is representing these physicians these pro-life-ization to argue that their patients are home throug the use of medicatio abortions. they've run into a trick problem because many conservative justices on the supreme court for years have said that physicians canno raise the claims of thei patients and abortion cases. although the court has allowed that to go forward, but it i always over the objections o -- >> conservative judges >> it is usually when thos doctors are trying to advocate that their patients deserv more choice. >> so it is interesting here that judge kacsmaryk is no hiding what has normally bee

the conservative party lin about standing for physicians, their party standing for physicians upping these claims on behalf of patients. because the patients and the doctors are actually misaligne here and that's not usually th case that's not the only thing wron here i mean - >> there is a lot. >> there is a lot. here why is this case in judge kacsmaryk's chambers along wit these other happen issues he's decided. because he's the only judge in the texas courthouse so if you file your case on hot button issue in amarillo you are guaranteed to get judge and kacsmaryk when you are guaranteed to get judg kacsmaryk you think you know exactly -- >> what you are going to get >> jessica valenti, i didn't realize that this attempt to kind of on wide access t mifepristone has been going on for decades. i mean this is the first emerged -- i mean, when we first approved it was controversial but pro-life - the antiabortion movement ha been after the fda approval fo almost 20 years now. is that right? -- >> oh yeah, they've been after forever. because they know that ove half of women who are ending

their pregnancies are usin abortion medication. they know that it is easy. they know that it's safe and they are terrified by. and we are seeing, like, i what happened today, they don' care about science and it seems like the judg does not either. >> what is so shocking about arguing against the safety and efficacy of a mess in medicine -- like, when it first comes, out maybe you can make that case but literally the argument hasn't changed at all. why is it -- is kacsmaryk's ascension to th bench -- why is this happening? now is it dobbs as a catholi at a catalytic advance >> yeah, it's jobs, it's kacsmaryk, they are choosing their moment they think that they have sign on their side. obviously, they don't. every single statistic tha they put forward is false an every study shows that abortio medication is completely safe. less than a third of 1% of women who take have seriou complications. where they think this is their moment >> they're also making - and the argument for standing,

melissa, they are also saying, not only is it that there ar these complications caused they are saying that women who terminate -- effectively, i'm paraphrasing little bit here, you can illuminate is a bit better tha i can't -- they're saying that women wh choose to end their pregnancie are denying the doctors of effectively a patient, a clien base, if you will, because the can't offer them pregnancy care >> so, they're basically arguing that there is this massive abortion industry an when these - it's just denying th physicians the opportunity t whether do with surgery -- and again this plays into a lo of the rhetoric that the pro-life movement as you use for years. again, it's this idea that there is an industry o abortion providers who are praying upon them and -- don't know what their choice are and instead they pus abortion on this again, these lawsuits should also be understood as just discursive moments and this is part of building a right, aric oratorio record, i

you will >> okay. so, how are we reading the behaviors of the past few days this whole hearing was kept -- i just saw that -- thanks - but the whole hearing was -- kacsmaryk one of nobody to fin out that this -- washington post effectivel leaked news of it. it's four, hours there in court, and it sounds like he is ope to the arguments made by the atf. it is a fait accompli here >> there is a reason they chos him, right there is a reason they chose him and there is a reason that he is saying that this was a accelerated process. he said that at some point today even though it took th fda for years to approve the medication right? and so i am very nervous, think everyone sort of expects it to come down on not the pro-choice side. and i think that no matter wha the fda does or the bide administration does, what th impact looks like on the groun is going to be incredibl incredibly dangerous for women because of the chaos that is

gonna so >> so walk me through it, if he does hand down a preliminary injunction, th biden administration, the do is going to appeal this, right and does this go to the suprem court do you think >> there are a lot of things that can be done the fda could say, that you are right, w didn't do the right protocols. we have got to review th somewhere even though it was reviewed for 20 years in europ before it was approved here in 2000 but yeah, we will do som review and that could just b pending. we could be, maybe medicatio abortion would be available in that circumstance because th fda is pending but what we ultimately may have a clas between the agency itself an this federal judge and that is harder to say. it is exactly as jessica said, in a situation like that where you have these two ver powerful entities crashing, th administrative state and you sherrie on the one hand. what do you have's confusion and doctors won't know if they should provide it. pharmacists won't know if they should dispense it and when i'm oh no it'

available. and that's exactly what they want it's a landscape of utte confusion and chaos, which i more effective, perhaps, tha any ban at this point. >> and we show that -- maybe we can pull it back up that map from the good mockery institute that shows the state said are going to be affecte by this chaos, jessica and it's not just what you think of as deep red states. >> it's colorado, it's vermont it's new hampshire i mean, is the expectation tha the chaos will seamless chaoti and states where there is more progressive attitud towards reproductive choice? what options are there >> i would like to think so bu i am really nervous about what is going to happen on th ground when you are talkin about individual doctors who have a lot of reasonable fea and individual pharmacies wh we are already seeing refuse medication even before thi decision comes down -- it's - i am really worried. and that's why every time talk about this issue in m newsletter, i tell everyone wh can get pregnant should have

abortion medication and thei medicine cabinet and you can get it whether - it's called the advanc provision. you should have it on hand whether it's for yourself or for a friend hopefully won't come to that i really, really do hope that. but that is -- >> the idea that we are at the stage of the game we are peopl who follow this issue ar saying, stockpile this medication because you may not be able to get it or someone you love may not be able to ge it that's a terrifying handmaid's tale dystopia to imagine tha america is in that place i wonder, melissa, is ther anything the biden administration should or can b doing at this juncture to urge the fda not to abide kacsmaryk 's ruling? what can the white house doing this >> this was a drug that wa reviewed it was reviewed by the fda it was approved by the fda and it was done so after 2 years of other testing i europe and it has a record here in th united states of 23 years of safe use and i think the administration can lean on that i mean, to the extent that

there needs to be a new review procedure, while, fine but w have the evidence, and thi again is playing with women' lives. like, this is really all o this is a game of brinkmanship with women on the balance -- >> and i will say that there i misoprostol which is the other part of the two drug regimen for medication abortions number one, jessic that is not an easier, tha drug has side effects fo women. taking mifepristone off th mark it will mean that women have to rely on something that is less effective and has more side effects is that right? it does, it is mor uncomfortable, it is mor painful. and i think that while it is effective and a lot of doctors are planning on using misoprostol only protocol, it' more comfortable and the concern is that becaus multiple doses are needed, onc the men are feelin uncomfortable and pain maybe they won't follow up with that second dose. and so there is a lot of fea there. it is not what is the safest and most effective, and we kno what is the safest and mos effective. because we have been doing i for over 20 years.

>> do you think that lie misoprostol, again, the second drugs potentially at risk here a lot of people would say, oh, they couldn't, they would neve do that with this has been on the market for - >> i - they could never do >> that -- remember all those peopl saying roe will never be - >> yeah, exactly, my first all has other uses, like it' essential uses and it' essential use for treating gastric ulcers and other thing of that nature but his movement is completely organizing focused on th complete and total abolition o legal abortion in this country and i think you have to take them at their word >> believe them when they tell you when they are. melissa murray and jessica valenti, thank you for joining me today as always, thanks for wisdom we have a lot more to get to tonight, including the potential ripple effect of judge kacsmaryk and as the fda approval of when drug that republicans are like, what other drugs could be next. and eye-opening reporting fo my georgia special grand jury, plus new testimony today in ne york city. all that may spell doubl trouble for a man named al

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being over i have complied with every request that was asked of me i just attorney's office so that they could review this case as best as they possibly can. my position is that the end of the day, donald trump needs to be held accountable for hi dirty deeds. if in fact that is the way tha the facts play out plain and simple >> that was former trump fixer and attorney michael cohen after testifying again before grand jury in the manhattan da 's hush money investigation of donald trump this is the second tim this week that mr. cohen has appeared before that grand jury prosecutors also met today via zoom with stormy daniels the adult film star trump allegedl paid hush money to prior to th 2016 election in order to cove up an alleged affair but you heard michael cohen sa

there that his role for th time being is over which could be an indication that the manhattan da is wrapping up the grand jury portion of its investigation if that is indeed the case, it means that prosecutors can soo make a decision about whethe or not to bring criminal charges against a former president of the united states for the first time ever. that in and of itself would of course be historic but this is the trump era. and history making offense like, say, impeachments or a special counsel investigations those often come out to for th price of one which is why we are also watching prosecutors in georgia, who may be close to a decision of their own about whether o not to indict the former president for his scheme to tr to overturn georgia's election results. today we have got brand-ne details about the special gran jury in that investigation according to new reporting i the atlant journal-constitution, jurors i that case were presented wit

yet another phone call tha president trump placed to georgia official to try to overturn the election results. the jurors listened to audio o trump calling the late georgia house speaker david rolston, and asking rolston to convene special session of the georgia legislature to overturn jo biden's victory? joe biden -- trump's request. according to one juror who described the call to the, paper the speaker basically bu cut the present and schauffele said it will do it within my power that things ar appropriate. he just basically took the win out of the sales well thank you was all the president could say. this is now the third phon call that we know of in whic donald trump pressured georgia officials to try to help him overturn the results of th 2020 election. one unidentified juror als hinted at the idea that we still have more to learn fro this investigation quote, and it is going to, you a lot is going to come out sooner or later. and it is going to be massive. it is gonna be massive

joining us now is michael moore, former u.s. attorney for the middle district of georgia and a current partner at the law firm more and haul michael thank you for bein here i am very interested in th fact that we now know of a third call that the presiden himself made to try to somehow overturn the results of th 2020 election. we know that the called brad raffensperger the secretary of state, we know about the cal francis watson, who is the chief elections officer in secretary of state's office. we now know about a car to the how speaker david rawlston how damning is that evidence a you look at this case. well i'm glad to be with you >> i do think it's a good piec of evidence. i don't think it's maybe a damning as the calls t raffensperger and to the other elections officials. but i think it gives you a goo picture of trump's state o mind and his intent. as he made those other calls

for instance he calls th speaker and he says i want you to have a special session an let's get this election fixe or whatever. well he's not election official that's got to recal the election but it tells you that he kne there was a problem. and so then when you take that call in conjunction with the call that he made to raffensperger. it all starts to be as clear a it can be. and that is that he has done telling raffensperger, i nee to just finding this number of votes. i mean, basically i think it i an indication that trump kne he had problems, but he wa taken every avenue he could to try to overturn the election i georgia, including makin references about possibl criminal problems that raffensperger may have or talking about these other votes and maybe intimidating someone in the role that h occupied at the time a president of the united states >> when you talk about trump's state of mind, that seems to b so central to all of the 202 election malfeasance if yo will lindsey graham also quoted b one of these jurors as suggesting that trump woul believe anything about the election this is the quote, he said tha during that time of somebody had told trump that aliens cam

down and stole trump ballots trump would have believed. it is that, i mean, what doe that mean legally? i guess my question. does that suggest that trump's state of mind was somethin other than genuinely believing that the 2020 election was stolen >> i think that he had absolutely knew that he ha lost the election. i guess we could say by giving him immunity to the aliens t have - you know, while we are here, i mean, he knew exactly where he was. and what the truth was and he was being told by people there is one side of the state says he was maybe a candidat that lost a race and he is doing everything you can to se if there is some way to find a path to victory. but he went way beyond that. and it's called raffensperge has been the da's clearest cas i think that she has it is almost like having a tap confession before there is eve a trial. before there is even a interrogation or an arrest by police officer

you have this guy admitting an it essentially saying, give me this exact number of votes i have to find out who do this and that is going to be th problem for him down the road, it is a little unseemly to m to have the grand jurors given statements and talking about things they heard and all of that i mean, that is not somethin that we see in georgia because we don't usually hav investigative grand juries certainly not special gran juries on a regular basis. but it is giving us some insight into the evidence that is out there >> and i want to return to tha in a second, the notion that these jurors were talking to the press. but before i do, just generall speaking the argument that w usually hear from team trump i that he legitimately believe that the trump election migh have been stolen enough therefore excuses him i know you sound skeptical o that particular case, on hold, do you think that argument authentic merit? i mean, do you think anybody i buying that at this point an you think that is a viable pat for trump attorneys to take if he is indicted by for exampl the special counsel? >> i think any of us would be fool to try to think rationall about something that a

irrational person thinks about and that would be him. i mean, he still thinks he had the biggest election crowd out there. despite pictures so who knows what he believes. but the truth at the time wa that he had been told, and h was continuing to run that every path he could. including what i think was a call to put pressure o raffensperger. and that is going to be hi problem. so it's, you know, if you want to come forward and say ha this long state of mind and, you know, there, i had thi long held belief that it's really this anyone to put al this evidence. you know, i just don't think h is going to get very far wit that i think the grand jury's recognized after hearing fro this number of witnesses, sort of what is out there and i just don't think the public and certain about the jury would file off on that. there are other reasons that the case, you know, may have some issues that she may mov on where another - she decides to bring charges but whether or not he actually believed it i think there will your line of witnesses aroun

the courthouse explaining, look, we had told him what the truth was. >> michael, i have to ask you, as we talk about one da' investigation, the new york da 's investigation, alvin bragg' investigation here the fact that michael cohen is wrapped up his testimony does that, should we rea anything into that in your opinion? and the fact that stormy daniels spoke via zoom t prosecutors, but hasn' testified formally in front of the grand jury could that mean that this is going to go on i mean, where do you land me look at the details we are getting out of this case >> i think he is probably close t making a decision. i have some real misgiving about where we are in the case i wish these prosecutors would get somewhere in a roo together and talk about who ha the strongest case and who has got the most evidence who can actually do somethin as opposed to worrying about who is gonna get to be the, yo know, first one at the water trough and i am afraid that is wher we are at. and i just don't find the case very compelling. we are talking about a case, it's as old as the new yor case, over a misdemeanor charge which they think maybe if they charge a certain way or have a certain evidence attitude, i

might become a felony, i jus do not ensure that that is the case you want to bring first to try to bring a historic a case against a former presiden of the united states i think we ought to have jac smith and fani willis and on the prosecutor friend to get together and really talk about what they have and who has got the resources and who has abou the strength to move the cas through because a weak case is going to make bad law for thos other cases that might b stronger and so that is got to be something you think. about is not to say that is no a crime, not to say to that he did do some. wrong to say that the payments were okay. it's to say that we are talkin about uncharted water here w are talking about historic decision that is thought to be made at the same time there i prosecutions that have to be true to their oath and through through two their job. that is to see justice there is only so many cases yo can bring about. the idea that maybe they ought to cooperate seems to me t make a lot of sense. to at least have a discussion, maybe they have had that,

ultimate someone secret that w don't allow. i hope it wasn't with a specia grand jury someone might be talking about that on the news reports -- that i hope they have really put their hands together t think about who has got th best cases, we think about who can actually get a conviction. and who can survive an appea that it's gonna take its way unquestionably up to the supreme court. >> yeah we are in tara incognito. no very much, so let's hop everyone is secretly talking t each other michael more, thank you so muc for your time and expertise on this topic really appreciate it >> it is always a pleasure thank you for having me we still have more to come tonight, including what the assault o the fda over abortio medication might mean for othe drugs that people take every day. plus, not one but two storie about right-wing figures and yeah it's an alleged o potential crimes that is next ♪ music (“i swear”) plays ♪

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yacht into another land. it sleeps 12 people plus staff the thing is literally manchin water. and it has an infinity pool on the top of the yacht in case you can't find a place to swim while on this litera bowtown the water. now a lot of the branding in this ad for the yachts namaste and that is because this was

the name of this year. the reason this namaste yet is now benevolent out is becaus it changed owners. and it changed owners thanks t a deal orchestrated by non other than republica congresswoman and serial lia george santos. tonight, the new york times fo the santos's involvement in th outsail one of about a dozen leads being pursued by the fbi the u.s. attorney for brooklyn and the nassau county da as they look into mr. santos's mysterious finances. congressman santos tonight denies any wrongdoing, but o its face this does not loo good santos brokered the yacht sale between two of his wealthy donors and santos has previousl bragged to reporters about getting referral fees of anywhere between 200,000 and $400,000 from brokering 20 million dollar yacht sales which at worst begs th criminal question of - whether this 19 million dollar yacht sale was designed to inject more money into santos' campaign then is allowed b campaign finance laws. or at best, whether santos use his campaign to brush shoulder

with the elite and in turn enrich himself so that was the first allege to republican yacht financia crime story today. but there is actually anothe one, you might remember this 2 million dollar yacht, the lady may. you are likely to remember i mostly because it is the meg yacht that trump strategis steve bannon was arrested on i 2020 bannon was arrested on tha yacht for allegedly defrauding investors in his we build th wall campaign. the one that aimed to crow source the building of trump's wall on the mexican border finance business partners in that scheme involved eithe pleaded guilty or when convicted of siphoning hundred of thousands of dollars from that campaign. but bannon him self got of thanks to a pardon fro president trump. now turns out that, both the yet that prices that - the lady but yeah it's also little about within oh getting inspire the sky. the owner of that yacht, the fugitive chinese billionaire guo wengui he was arrested thi

morning on charges that he als defrauded investors in his conservative business. in addition to the, of the justice department alleges tha guo used defrauded investors t buy a 50,000 square foot mansion, three and a hal million dollar ferrari and not one but two 36,000 dollar mattresses. because why not? by two if you have been awake in th last eight, years you know how influential steve bannon as we come in the republican party it is really worth noting ho influential this guy, gu wengui has become and in conservative politics alongsid steve bannon part of guo's alleged fraud wa convincing people to inves more than $450 million in th media venture of his called g v. but then pocketing time of tha money himself. beyond the grift, she tv pushe this information about stuff like vaccines and election fraud and qanon. and pivotally it spread that

disinformation on spanish an chinese language social medi right here in america. all with well paid consultin help from steve bannon so guo and bannon are also the founders of the anti chinese communist party lobbying group the new federal state of china which among other things was one of the official sponsors o cpac as in the conservative political action conference. so a lot of republican figures in the same boat tonight or votes the alleged financial crim vote turns out it is a lot bigger than we thought. it is kind of a mansion on the water. we have still more ahead tonight. including watching republicans stumble trying to define their newest four letter word, one that is spelled w o k e. plus first again for bush an medications. will covid vaccines be next? stay with us

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♪♪ ♪♪ get $1500 purchase allowance on a 2023 cadillac xt5 and xt6. ♪♪ visit your local cadillac dealer today. >> as we speak, the future o the fda has the highes authority in the country for entering the safety efficacy and security of drug that authorities at risk that's because inside that courtroom in amarillo, texas are antiabortion groups ar asking federal judge matthew kacsmaryk -- efta to rescind its approval o mifepristone, a safe and effective abortion medicatio

that has been used in the u.s. for more than 20 years we don't know how the judg will go, but this case has opened the door to two ver serious questions. one, what is the role of the courts and reviewing the fda's approval of drugs? secondly, what are the implications of other drug being shaken off of the market because conservatives find the controversial? in florida, for example, ron desantis has launched a public health policy committee to counter recommendations from the fda and cdc uncovered on covid vaccines that were approved by the fda, and hav been safely administer to over 269 million americans, showing to reduce the spread of covi and the risk of severe illness and death. in idaho, republican lawmakers are going even further they introduced a bill las month that would criminalize the administration of mrna vaccinations, all types of them, not just those for covid the klan could include fda approved drugs with mrna technology like vaccines o rabies, or the flu then there are the 97 bills in 27 states which would ba gender affirming care whic would include hormone therapy,

which is also commonly used in menopause. then there are republica efforts to target birt control. in 2021, conservativ republicans tried to block medicaid funding from going to groups including planned parenthood in the fine print, the lawmakers for the targeted specific forms of emergenc contraceptives are often sol under the name, plan b it's a medication approved b the fda back in 1999 the texas showed signs wit conservative groups to block the use of a drug that has bee safely used for 20 years, what is to say that any drug that runs afoul of conservative principles states safely on th shelf? joining us now is new york times columnist and msnb interpreter, michelle goldberg michelle, it's always good t see you. i don't want to be in alarmist here and i want to say that the sky is falling but the precedent the this case could said if he does in fact order a preliminary injunction, or withdrawal of the fda'

approval, he could be profound across pharmacies, and acros the country. >> besides the immediate impac on women and people who need abortions, it's just - there's a couple pieces. is the other lawlessness about i think that when the suprem court refused to enjoy in texa from their abortion bounty act as the, eight which was such a violation of what wa constitutional precedent >> just for those who want athlete, that's the one that effectively criminalizes the act of helping someone's ego get an abortion. >> right and it was such a kind of blatant and run around roe which was at the time the la of the land and it - legal arguments for it were so outrageous the supreme court basicall said that we don't care. i think that it shocked a lo of people, even pro-choice people that were very cynica about the supreme court. they can't possibly allow that to send.

stand. but it is a sign that all bets are off. these people have been put int various courts to do the bidding of the far-right, an that's what they're going to do the legal arguments are almost irrelevant if they are irrelevant for abortion, i would not be surprised if they were irrelevant if they try to brin up a case against plan b it's also interesting to not that one of the antiabortion side arguments in this cas before kacsmaryk it's about th come stop loss you know, the old old laws tha we do used to ban -- >> the mailing - >> the mailing of contraception, birth control information. they basically want to resurrect the comstock laws an say that they apply here there is a lot more, man things besides abortion laws that the comstock loss could apply to >> when it's coming at thi particular moment where th right is emboldened by the

dobbs decision this ruling could have a profound effect on how they se the courts as tools to do what they can't do legislatively. i wonder if -- i'm, given the zeal that the right has to punish an marginalized members of th lgbtq community in particular, it concerns me when i thin about this landscape that, oh, drug their piece that are used specifically in transition o in - therapy or gender affirmin care, that feels like it i ripe for at least some kind of lawsuit, if not an actual lega success here to get that stuff out of doctors offices, out of pharmacies where it is helping people who need it >> right and one of the questions her is whether states can kind o just disregard or overrule the fda, and one of th consequences of jobs has jus been this total fracturing o the legal landscape across the state border you cross state border and you are in a totally different legal russian when it comes to your body. and so yes, i think we are already seeing states bannin hormone therapy, not just fo

minors, but for people 18 to 21 for the same reason that the m surprise still, second drug in the medication abortion regime is a little bit safer than mifepristone - the other, that is also used for ulcers -- i think the same is true of th drugs used in transitions. those puberty blockers given t kids, hormones that are used for aging -- >> from an apostle women - >> so, whether republicans are -- actually going to want to ba testosterone, presumably som of them -- >> that's the golden ticket. >> i think that's the question >> and it's reflective of this very, very distressing trend o the courts denying settled science. the fda approved these drugs they are safe, they're effective, there are cas studies to prove that. there is a wide body of that evidence, and yet you have these christian fundamentalist justices who seem to want to

pro science away in the name o christian doctrine >> i think it's been a ver long history on the far-righ of creating these alternativ institutional, legal institutions, alternativ medical institutions this whole library of lies tha -- kind of, not just settle science on vaccine, settle signs on evolution there's a whole alternativ reality that they've bee fastidiously constructing. they are now in a position t impose on everybody else >> and it's not just legislatures, is now the judge themselves michelle goldberg, one of my favorite thinkers and talker on this topic. >> oh, thank you >> thank you for your time my friend. we will be right back. [alarm] >> instructor: veer right. [ringing] >> instructor: and slow down. >> tech: so when he got a cracked windshield, he turned to safelite. we're the experts at replacing glass and recalibrating your vehicle's camera, so automatic emergency braking and lane departure warning work properly

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do conservatives think it means? >> would you mind defining woke? this has come up a couple of times, i want to make sure we're on the same page >> woke is the idea that - this is going to be one of those moments that goes viral. it's something that's hard t define, and we could spend a entire chapter defining it, it is the understanding that we need to completely reimagine and reduce society in order to

create hierarchies o oppression >> it's hard to define reduces society. something about oppression a conservative commentator and an author that has studied wokeism, and written in he estimation, entire chapters on it and yet she it sure is tricky. so far, the only person to define what it actually is i florida governor ron desantis. late last year, his staffers were asked to define woke in court, defining woke as a slan term for activism, progressive activism his general counsel added that woke is the belief that ther are systemic injustice i american society, and the need to address them. that sounds right, maybe eve sense a cool maybe that is why the anti wok movement has such a hard tim with it. sometimes it is what you don't say that speaks volumes. that is our show for tonight we will see you again tomorrow it's time for the last word, with lawrence o'donnell. good evening, lawrence >> good evening, alex. i'm not attempting to define i