it's 4:00 in new york. s.w.a.t. teams, secret phone calls, testimony from some of the most prominent political figures in america and a windowless conference room in which 23 people investigated a plot to end democracy. an exclusive and extraordinary piece of writing and reporting from the atlanta journal constitution pulls the curtain back on the special grand jury in fulton county, georgia, one of the two criminal investigations into the twice impeached disgraced ex president. it could result in anything truly historic and unprecedented. the indictment of a former president of the united states. from that piece of reporting, quote, in an exclusive

interview with the atlanta journal institution, five of the 23 special grand jurors recounted what it was like to be a pivotal but anonymous part of one of the most momentous criminal investigations in u.s. history. they described a process that was, by turn, fascinating, tedious, and emotionally wrenching. one juror said she would cry in her car at the end of the day after hearing from witnesses whose lives have been upended by disinformation and claims of election fraud. the jurors revealed brenda evidence in the trump coup plot including a never before heard phone call between donald trump and late georgia house speaker david ralston. which trump urged him to hold a special session of the georgia legislature in order to

overturn joe biden's win in the states. they write, one juror said he proved to be, quote, an amazing politician. the speaker basically cut him off saying i will do everything in my power, but i think it is appropriate. basically took the wind out of the sails, the juror said. thank you, you know, is all the president could say. nbc news spoke with the jury for person reports the call recording lasted about 10 minutes. she recalled that trump asked ralston who would stop him from holding a special session. according to him, a federal judge, that so. jurors also heard from 75 witnesses from top trump allies to everyday people whose lives were upended by trump's lies about the election. they write, among the most compelling witnesses, various jurors said, were the fulton county poll workers who received death threats after being singled out by trump and his then attorney rudy giuliani. another mention the one-time

executive for dominion voting systems who left his job after being vilified. also mentioned, the wife of secretary of state brad raffensperger who broke down when discussing the vitriol and threats leveled at her. one grand river recalled u.s. senator lindsey graham's testimony about donald trump's state of month saying that during that time, if someone had told trump that aliens came down and stole trump ballots, trump would have believed it, the jurors said. the grand jury work is summed up in a report that will form the basis of any charges that fulton county d.a. might bring and as she said last month, decisions are imminent. once again, from the report, a lot is going to come out sooner or later. and it is going to be massive.

it is going to be massive. an inside look at a sweeping criminal investigation into the trump coup plot is where we begin with some of our reporters and friends. he contributed to the reporting we've been reading from in the ajc and neil cocktail, who is love perforce or at georgetown university . this is a real sort of journalistic feet, look inside the human experience of being on the special grand jury. greg, take us inside what you and your colleagues are reporting. >> i would say, my colleagues did a tremendous job of first convincing the grand jurors to come forward and in part, it was because they were little bit worried about the impressions of the grant for

woman. she did a series of interviews a few weeks ago. might have seemed unimpressed unprofessional to many. we want to make sure it did not undermine the investigation and as you said, help provide a glimpse behind the scenes of this painstaking work that lasted almost one year, where they heard from 75 witnesses and including the reporters and there are new revelations about the coup that they said when the report comes out, it will have massive implications. >> you know, neal, i am struck, and i want to read through more of what we are reading from the jurors themselves but i'm so struck by what is later emerging evidence of trump's instrumental role as a conductor of the fake elector plot. this is trump again on the phone with the state official in a state whose results he sought to cheat and lie about.

is that i need you to find 11,780 votes. now we know that he was on the phone with the speaker, urging for him to call legislative session. and he said i cannot do that, a federal judge will stop me. >> yes, nicolle, i suspected there stuff we don't know about trump because he is so incapable of following the law. after the january 6 hearing, it can sometimes feel like we know everything against trump, there so much, the volume of evidence is so great, but the new reporting said there's a lot more to the picture we don't know and i think donald trump but he got lucky because house speaker ralston actually passed away and it turns out that the grand jury knows this that there was a tape that they made. we don't know the origins of the new recording, but there is

something to be said for the thought that several different georgia officials thought that a conversation with the sitting president of the united states was problematic enough that they decided to tape it. they are already on notice that something bad is happening and you know, one of the crimes that this georgia grand jury is investigating is the georgia statute that makes it illegal to intentionally ask someone else to engage in election fraud. just the mere asking of that is itself a crime in georgia. there other crimes that they are looking at, but according to the reporting today, this new reporting suggested goes directly to that particular crime and whether it was committed. >> so, neal, we had trump tweeting at election officials and has emerged earlier than today, vocals and outreach and

invitations to travel to the oval office at the peak of covid and that december 2022 january 2021 period, for him to help orchestrate the legislative piece to overturn the election results. to your point, the call with tran60 was on tape and the call with the late speaker of the house. how did doj not open an investigation into donald trump with just that evidence? >> it does look like something was happening with doj. u.s. doj at the time. the justice department and many of our viewers know is controlled ultimately as an executive branch agency. told ultimately by donald trump and his attorney general at that point. the acting u.s. attorney jeffrey rosen. the local prosecutor in atlanta. all of a sudden, he suddenly resigned in january and so, it

may be that he thought there was a crime that was committed and was forced to resign or something. details on that have not emerged. know that trump's modus operandi is to say i tweeted some of this stuff in the open. therefore, it is not a crime. but just because you do something openly and you do other stuff quietly, that is no defense at all under the law. and here, the history is really important because she is an expert in repeat offenses for corrupt organizations and here, i think what she is trying to piece together with the grand jury is a picture of trump doing all the stuff in public and other stuff surreptitiously

and quietly. it is part of one big piece, one big conspiracy to try to topple the election and undo the democratic ramp eight. >> we examine the facts as they emerge slowly. we have at our disposal michael cohen's sensing memo. this of the corded and directed the payments to two women with whom trump allegedly had affairs. one of them is stormy daniels. with georgia, there is less evidence a holdup in the probe because it was not a parallel investigation but when you look at the body of evidence, and as you said, some of the tea leaves suggest she might be assembling the rico investigation. i-175 witnesses which include lindsey graham, subpoenaed by doj? >> with respect to the dark investigation, glad you mentioned the federal sentencing document of michael cohen three years ago. u.s. justice department

concluded that individual number one, which we know to be donald trump, directed the hush money payments to stormy daniels. through michael cohen. that is an official filing and it is not the merrick garland justice department or the barack obama's justice bartley. that is donald trump's own justice department made an extraordinary filing. there isn't at least, to our knowledge, a similar federal document. that is true in almost every state prosecution. if he did not have it, he would still have a very strong case. so, it is sufficient for prosecution but by no means necessary. i don't think the fact that they don't have that document is going to ultimately stop her in the end from indicting but i

do think you raise an important question, which is, why has this not been, at least to our knowledge, invested by the u.s. justice department? we know exactly what was not investigated back in december and january of 2020 and 2021, which is that trump controlled the justice department and looks like he might have possibly interfered with the investigation, but after that, merrick garland was the head of the justice department for two years, i think and people deserve to know the answers. it could be that he concluded that georgia is investigating this and as a federal government, we don't want to right now because we want to let georgia go first. that is a perfectly plausible thing to do. law enforcement does that all the time. so that might be what is going on here. that is what happened in the george floyd murder. let minnesota investigate firs , so it's possible but we don't know. >> is it common in election fraud instances for the federal government to say i will let a

state go first? is that a normal process? >> fortunately in our government, we don't have that many election fraud cases. we will have sitting presidents doing the kind of shenanigans that donald trump has. senate know if we could discern enough of a practice but i can see it a plausible argument if i was sitting in the attorney general's shoes to say georgia should take the first crack at this. >> you some of the victims of the crimes allegedly committed by trump and his allies in georgia. this is ruby freeman, shaye moss. >> i want even introduce myself by my name anymore. i get nervous when i bump into peopl . the rent to someone who i know in the grocery store. i'm worried about who is listening. i get nervous when i have to give my name for food orders. i'm always concerned about who is around me.

i have lost my name and i have lost my reputation. >> it's turned my life upside down. i no longer give out my business card. i don't transfer calls. i don't want anyone knowing my name. i don't want to go anywhere with my mom because she might yell my name out in the grocery aisle or something. i don't go to the grocery store at all. have not been anywhere at all. >> i'm in hiding because i reached many death threats on a continuing basis. my entire family, the private information has been published online in what is referred to as doxing. all my private information has been released all mine.

people have threatened to come by and lynch me, decapitate me, they refer to me as a traitor and it is not safe for me to go about my daily life and even my father has received harassing letters to his home. >> those are victims of donald trump's lies, whether not they constitute federal or state crimes will be determined by prosecutors but it is undeniable that this is not a victimless series of acts and lies and potential crimes. your thoughts to the new look inside the evidence and processed and very much impacting the special grandeur. >> nicolle, think what we heard from those individuals is that this is much more than just some kind of white-collar crime. there is a deep layer of

physical intimidation that happened here in the course of trying to overturn the election. put aside what happened in the capital on january 6. donald trump and his allies acted like mobsters here and they coaxed their allies on the extended periphery to also intimidate people. now, like you said, we will see if any of that result in charges, but i don't think the american people fully grasp the severity of that. you and i have talked about this. i have direct personal experience. me and my fianci do not put our names on hotel reservations. we've moved our assets to other areas. family members with death threats. we continue to have death threats. this is what it is like to turn against that machine and it is not detached from the ex president and his orbit. in fact, it was just donald trump the other day at cpac who said his priorities in a second term would be retro version. people of good values that end

up interacting with him often sense that. and we saw that with this reporting from greg and others about this new reporting, that people instantly feel like this man is potentially doing something illegal and feel compelled to document it. i thought it was extraordinary that we found out about another phone call. i can remember in the trump administration going to brief him and taking notes in the situation room or oval office and trump being enraged that my pencil was moving across the pad because he had a guilty mindset and he did not want people to record or document conversations with him. i think that is pretty damning. based of what we have heard so far which is not the totality of the evidence, but that it will be your than a california sunset. there peaster be means, motive, and opportunity for what donald trump tried to do to overturn the election. >> i used to remember the page number but my memory fails me.

in volume 2 of the mueller report, this a section where trump says he likes lawyers who don't write things down. that is what he is nostalgic for. let me go back to the reporting with you, greg. this is from this incredible story. the bomb sniffing dog was new. the special grandeur is investigating interference in georgia's 2020 elections had not been for seen that level of security on the third floor of the fulton county courthouse where they have been meeting in secret for nearly eight months. up it doesn't find anything, one juror recalled thinking. they said it was unexpected. we were not warned of that. the reason for the heightened surveillance was the star witness, michael flynn. than former national security advisor. he told law enforcement was taking no chances on that unseasonably warm december day concerned about who might turn up to protect him.

a prominent figure in far right conspiracy theorist and christian nationalist groups. outside on the courthouse steps, sheriff's deputies and marshals carrying automatic and weapons kept watch. you talk about republican politicians who crumble under trump's pressure campaign. they chose to be republicans and they chose to go along with trump for as long as they did. these jurors have no such agency. they were picked for jury duty and they face extraordinary risks. >> yes, and they are carrying out a public service in the gives a glimpse of what the security could be surrounding a trial if it were to go forward in the next year or two. i know from working around every so often, rosa be closed around the courthouse or heavy security presence and you just

thought it has something to do with the grand jury probe. this is a preview of what could happen over the next few months if this trial goes forward and if this case goes forward and these jurors should be celebrated for what they did. >> and we've had an extraordinary public service. the murder of george floyd, you let states go first. but i don't buy this. he ran a multistate conspiracy to overturn the results of election loss but i do not for the life of me, understand why it took merrick garland two years to investigate it. >> i hear you on that. i think i would say maybe agai , we are speculating here, but i can imagine some reasons for merrick garland to think the state should go first, besides what i said earlier, which is that the crimes were against the state and against georgia officials, so the two other reasons to think about our number one, state crimes cannot be pardoned by the president of the united states. to the extent that trump wins

or a republican in 2024, we know the playbook and a lot of the things it will do first is pardon donald trump. you cannot do that with the state crime. either georgia or new york. that might be one thing that is going on in the thinking and another thing going on in the thinking is to take your point about how trump committed a multistate conspiracy and turned it around and say, we at the justice department are already investigating trump's role in january 6. and now we are also investigating the fact that he has stolen dozens and dozens of classified documents and put them in his golf club. so in the third federal investigation to georgia will already have these two and when there is already an ongoing state prosecution, again, i don't know the answer to that but i can imagine reasonable minds saying, let's let the state officials take the first crack. >> the proms that they were not investigating the documents.

the documents were not referred to doj for 11 months. what is the explanation? for white takes two years to open on trump and the insurrection? >> i am with you. i understand. try the best i can to try to understand why the justice department did this and they would not want an investigation into the documents and trump's role into january 6. but i am as frustrated as you, nicolle, and i'm not trying to be making excuses i'm just trying to outline what i think the thinking may have been but i absolutely share your sentiment. a massive crime was committed on the american people on our democracy, on our values, on what holds us frankly sacred together as americans and the idea that there was any delay, even for a month, let alone a month or year or two years, is

tragic and i sure hope that the justice department will explain what they have been doing for two years. >> i'm not frustrated, i resigned. merrick garland isn't going to do anything the fact that no investigation was opened i guess donald trump after the insurrection on live tv, rosen seemed bothered enough by donald trump to cooperate in a substantial way with the congressional committee but even if it had not been investigated or open between january 7 and january 20, merrick garland has been in charge for 26 months. why do you think no one at a federal level opened on donald trump before jack smith came along? >> well, i have to say as directly as i feel it, i have been defensive of merrick garland's independence from the start, but i think this delay has been absolutely devastating to democracy and why do i think

it happened? politics and here is why. prosecutors rightfully, and the justice department, especially under this administration, rightly have been firewall from politics to let prosecutors and of us can just do their thing. generally that is good in our system. here's the downside. i don't think there's been nearly enough awareness inside the justice department of the political realities we are facing with the delay in prosecution. that delay has made it vastly more likely that donald j. trump could be president of the united states again. those two years have been absolutely crucial. had he been potentially ignorant and i did earlier, could have derailed a candidacy. this is real world impact. say they should make decisions based on politics but they should be very aware of the political implications and they are enormous here. charges are not brought against

donald trump for some months, it will be harder and harder as time goes on for his primary opponent in the gop presidential candidate in 2024 to use against him and undermined him. he has said he will keep campaigning through a potential indictment and prosecution. that is an enormous issue for us. one thing we can hope for and i don't think it is a big hope, is that, if either the georgia prosecutor brings the indictment against him or the doj does, that trump's opponents will finally pick up on a trump controversy and use it against him to bring him down in the political arena but i'm not going to hold my breath. >> don't do that. he hasn't respond to the ethics complaint from four days ago. the promise exactly what you said, miles. it is not that i believe merrick garland is partisan, because he's not. but doing nothing is as political as the bill barr justice department practice of doing everything and we are

entering this phase where everyone is giving cover with trepidation. the conduct and decisions of these state prosecutors, and they should. but part of the reason that so much trepidation is that doj has created a massive vacuum. that access to all of these. they had more and better tools and to our knowledge, they have done nothing. so we will stay on it. greg, and extort a piece of writing and reporting. thank you for joining us. neal katyal, thank you for trying to make sense of it for us. when we come back, the lies fox news pedal over the airways for many months could be changing how the audience sees them. new polling that backs it up. thanks to the evidence unearthed in the$1.6 billion

defamation lawsuit which gets underway in just a few days. the new reporting is next. and new video release by the u.s. of the surveillance drone getting clipped by a russian fighter jet. the incident approved by the highest levels of russian leadership, we are told. how the u.s. response as the war in ukraine drags on and drags u.s. politics into it as well. and the whitewashing of the january 6 insurrection continues among the republican party, even as we see another example in new video of another close call between the rioters and one prominent gop trump ally republican senator. those stories and more when deadline: white house continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. when the murrays discovered gain scent beads, they fell in love with the irresistible scent. ♪ ♪

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president trump won not by hundreds of thousands of votes, but by millions of votes that were shifted by this software that was designed expressly for that purpose. it was calculated. they have done it before. we have evidence from 2016 in california. we have so much evidence, i feel like it is coming in through a fire hose. >> so you feel like you will be able to prove this? do you have the software in your possession? do you have the hardware in your possession? how will you prove this? >> i have lots of ways to prove it, but i'm not going to tell a national tv what all we have. i just can't do that. >> it is secret. is was ridiculous at the time and now it sits at the center of a lawsuit and there dozens more appearances like that where that came from of sidney powell on different fox news

programs. we played love it here before and it's important to keep in mind, as new reporting in the washington post today suggest that sidney powell's lack of credibility at the center of some of the arguments made by dominion voting systems in the $1.6 billion defamation lawsuit against fox. and how far the lawsuit has advanced is truly extraordinary. on tuesday, both seismic the first major oral arguments before the judge. that is ahead of what is expected to be a weeks long trial scheduled to start one month from tomorrow. this is one of two massive defamation lawsuits against fox. a brand-new poll shows that nearly two thirds of americans, including many many many republicans, think fox should be held accountable for airing what it admitted privately were dangerous lies. joining our coverage, jeremy peters on the beat for "the new

york times" and he is also an msnbc contributor. and a law professor from the university of utah first amendment scholar. let me start with the us and the perceptions of fox news. if there's one thing that i think you can say about fox news, that they would not dispute themselves and even take as a point of pride, is that the brand is everything to them especially their brand as it is perceived by republicans and their own viewers. if the new polling, if they are to be believed, that the brand has taken a massive hit not just around the general public, but among republicans. >> right. i think, just like any other entity associated, or any other entity that you would consider, if you go back in time and think about it as part of the old republican party, fox news today is much different than it was 10 or 15 years ago.

it's become much more trumpy because that is where the audience is and the people consider themselves to be normal republicans are not watching as much anymore. i still think it is a question, nicolle, of how many fox news viewers ultimately hear about what tucker carlson was saying, for example, when he said he hates dial trump passionately or when laura ingram is calling sidney powell a not. it is not being covered on fox. with a few limited exceptions, it is not being covered in the broader conservative media ecosystem, either, because fox news pays a lot of these hosts. influential radio host, who also happen to be fox news contributors, so they're not talking about it all that much, either. how much this penetrates, think depends on some conservatives, pro-trump conservative start going after a figure like tucker carlson, who has been on record in these texts and messages we have seen from the dominion lawsuit expressing

others disdain and contempt for donald trump, calling him a destroyer and saying that the anger that his movement feeds on is, quote unquote, deadly. this is really powerful stuff, but i don't know that many fox news viewers know anything about it. >> maybe the more instructive thing from the polling and i will put up one more time and is from critically pack. 65% of all americans a 41% of all americans feel that fox should be held accountable. 87% said they would stop relying on any news source if they thought it was intentionally not telling the truth, including 90% of republicans and 89% of democrats. i guess the point to take from this is how small of a fraction of the republican party the fox audience really is. it ends up being a vocal and powerful one. >> that is kind of the irony of some of the biggest and most

potentially damaging claims of the lawsuit. they came from shows with tiny audiences, relatively speaking, to the bigger fox universe. maria show, lou dobbs show, these allegations in the dominion suit are much stronger and more extensively documented against those two programs man against tucker carlson, who is only mentioned once from one instance of alleged defamation in the lawsuit. laura ingram who is not really mentioned at all and sean hannity, who is only mentioned once as a potential -- as making potentially defamatory statements. was really the fringe leading the way here and that fringe, could possibly end up costing fox something on the order of 8 billion dollars. >> and perhaps irreparable harm to the reputation. maybe not among their viewers,

but among the general public, but most people who work there and who go on their shows care a lot about what journalists like the "new york times" think and write about them. the most extraordinary thing in terms of shedding light in places where it was hard to shine the light, is seeing the way they talked amongst themselves. this is the email exchange between a former white house spokesman. i believe working exclusively for jared and ivanka. he said, a tweet noting that trump's daily schedule carried the vague assurance of the present would make, quote, many calls and have many meetings that were from early in the morning and late in the

evening. i think what they meant is that the present will wake up early and commit many many crimes, including, but not limited to obstruction of justice, attempted fraud, and treason in an effort to conduct a coup that he will fly to a rally and further insight the same. it is disheartening. the only clear-cut evidence of voter fraud is a failed attempt from trump. what seems significant is not that even his former staffers suggested he is likely to commit crimes from the time he wakes up to the time he goes to bed, but it is interesting to hear from that, but the senior executive at fox news says this, the only clear-cut evidence of voter fraud is the failed attempt from trump. am i reading that right? is that a significant piece here that a fox executive is acknowledging that the only evidence of voter fraud that they have seen come across their desks is potentially from trump himself? yes. part of what is really interesting here is that there are two different paths that are -- that can be as we bring one of the defamation suits about to the matter public concerns

to clear the constitutional hurdle here. are seeing one of them as flashy, but you can use either and i see dominion filings here suggesting that they think they can do both. the first is what we have been focusing on, knowing falsely, evidence within the fox universe that suggests that folks within the corporate structure up and down has awareness that there was a lie and shared it anyway. this is where we get what we would talk about and the text messages and exchanges say things like this is a lie. this is crazy, this is ludicrous. and dominion lawyers when the job of connecting the dots between people who said those kinds of things internally within the structure and the people who actually produced, created, and disseminated the

actual lie over which dominion is suing. but there's a second path that is also available in these kinds of cases, that the law calls reckless disregard for the truth. and dominion is making arguments in this space and this is where you aren't arguing that there was a knowing fault, but instead argued that there was a high degree of probable awareness of the falsity that it was a subjective understanding that it was likely that it was untrue and as to these, they also have a pretty significant body of evidence, including the email that jeremy has been writing a lot about recently that has been dubbed the walker doodle email. is not that there's knowledge of falsity, the aiming to show that they should have known, that they did know, that there were problems with this and recklessly disregarded the truth. that you could use to do that,

unreliable sourcing, or the notion that it was so inherently improbable that it could not possibly be true or some evidence of the broadcaster did not look into and liberally did not look into it in order to avoid the truth. it's very hard to do, sloppy journalism will not suffice, but the suggestion that dominion had email evidences linking back to city powell's claim that might get in that distance. >> it's amazing that we are steeped in the evidence that has been produced and the process so far, to just refer to the wackadoodle email, which is the subject of the reporting. we will continue to call on both of you as this nears the trial. if that is where it is heading.

thank you so much. up next, new pictures and details about the encounter between the u.s. drone and a russian jet as news today is that our allies are stepping up in a big way to support ukraine, heading in the opposite direction of some american republicans here at home. we will tell you all about we will tell you all about that, next. ...it isn't really a vacation... we can snuggle up by the fire. ...is it? wow, oh my- [birds chirping] big pharma has been unfairly charging people hundreds of dollars, making record profits. not anymore. we capped the cost of insulin at $35 a month for seniors on medicare.

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today the pentagon released new footage of the russian fighter jet into adopting a

u.s. drone over the black seed, it was released this morning by the u.s. european command. officials the mayor with a relative intelligence had the highest level of power within the kremlin approved of the aggressive actions in this account are. adding to the tensions, if that were possible, between the u.s. and russia as the war in ukraine continues. here, nato allies strengthening support for ukraine. poland will deliver to ukraine around a dozen fighter jets, which will make it the first nato member to do this. the efforts to help bolster ukraine's defenses could be complicated by a growing political divide here at home. a couple of far right maga members of the republican party and loud voices and right-wing media are becoming increasingly vote to vocal in condemning your support for ukraine. let's bring into our coverage retired barry mccaffrey, former

member of the security council. general mccaffrey, based on this divide, we talked about this a little bit a couple days ago, but, this notion that desantis and trump are saying about ukraine doesn't have a real-world impact on morale and the dynamics on the battlefield seem foolish. tell me what your concerns are about a couple of -- i don't want to say a couple. donald trump, ron desantis, and the cheerleader tucker carlson, with a real walk back, a real turning on ukraine. >> it's shocking to watch this. putin is allied with historical republican stances of freedom abroad and u.s. national security interests, clearly,

this language out of both trump and desantis and to some extent, others, senator jd vance in ohio, has been incredibly destructive to nato trust in the united states. and it is unrecoverable. they are saying in 2024, we might well be dealing with one of these political candidates. i think the ukrainians will be fearful in the long run at the potential loss of u.s. technical support, but it will not affect the fighting forces. they understand the nightmare they will descend into if russia takes over the country. it is astonishing and desantis' case. trump, you can always take him off the table on this, but desantis is educated, experienced, a smart guy.

he knew exactly what he was doing. he is trying to pare away the trump wing nuts to edge into the primary with trump voters. >> the politics are so stupid and potentially catastrophic as well. iran is supplying drones for russia and republicans see themselves as really being the bulwark against iranian nuclear is a and iranian power in the region. what is the danger of some of these prominent republicans. desantis and trump are probably one and two in the republican primary polls, to take a decision that would aid russia and iran. >> let's add north korea, also. mr. putin, with his criminal invasion of brazil, india, you name it but by and large, he's in an economic straight jacket and politically pariah nation.

the people who have come to his aid are iran, north korea, potentially china, although they are very hesitant to not yet be supplying the lethal aid so putin is standing in the global community as one that creates either fear or disgust so he strategically lost a bubble now we're worried about domestic national purpose >> the right is real tlyriggered by these conversations sorks we're going to continue ours on the other side of a break. stick around don't go anywher

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. we're back with general mccaffrey and myles taylor this maybe why the right is so trigger bid this 80% of democrats support america aiding ukraine 60% of independents, 42% of republicans. it's a horrific general election issue. it is another instance where the republican rye marry is going to push republicans out of the mainstream of american plot. >> that's absolutely right the closest thing that there has been to consensus in u.s. foreign policy for the past 100 years has been the defense of democracy whether you're talking about wilson or truman or jfk or reagan and bush, that has been a unifying theme it's why it's called the washington consensus and people like donald trump are

about to break it in half. i have seen internal nonpublic polls worse than the one that you showed that show two-thirds of republicans do not believe there should be anymore support to ukraine so ron desantis is not a break away republican in saying this he represents now the new republican base. the general'sen comments in the last setting isment, that's pretty disturbing. it means real lives are on the line this is not the party of ronald reagan this is the party of trump if we're stepping back, it's not just a danger for our friends abroad, it represents a real threat to the homeland it encourages rivals to push forward and to fill the gap. >> there was a great piece where i'll read the last line. a democratic president is standing up to vladimir putin and facing a republican in ron desantis, who would rather attack mickey mouse. it condenses how small this republican party is right now. >> yeah, if the democrats are

smart in 2024, they are going to run the playbook that republicans have run in the past weakness invites aggression. that should be how joe biden or any other candidate should run against republicans. it shows that other very big change that's happened to the republican party, which is the the abandonment of the free market and competition and the attacking of american businesses over culture war quite frankly both of those things make the united states weaker,s especiallien the world stage >> general barry, miles tail taylor, thank you for having this conversation. we're grateful up next around here, what is behind the republican-led effort to rewrite january 6th deitspe more and more and more hard evidence what it was. talk about that next what's the big deal? what's the big deal? ♪marching band music♪ scotts daylawn saving is the biggest deal of the year. stock up early and save up to $20 dollars on the best scotts products.

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officer goodman passes senator mitt romney and directs him to turn around in order to get to safety. on the first floor, just beneath them, the mob had already started to search for the senate chamber. >> hi again, everybody it's 5:00 in new york. s that was one of the most shocking details from the impeachment trial of donald trump. it was the revelations and the footage of just how close the insurrectionists got to lawmakers, including prominent republicans, people like mitt romney writers also got to within near feet of chuck schumer and former

vice president pensmike pence t day. now newly released video shows another close call between rioters and a senator, the pro tem chuck grassley he was third in line for the presidency that day. politico reports the footage release d after media requests t access videos in connection with the january 6th criminal case shows the apparent evacuation of senator chuck grassley from the senate chamber as a uniformed officer separates him and his security detail from the first wave of rioters. those rioters were being led by the proud boy who used a shield to shatter a window and ignite the breech of the building near the chamber. senator grassley's life looks like it was in very much could have been in real danger that day. right after january 6th, he saw it that way too. he called out the former president for what he described as, quote, poor leadership in

his words and actions. but there's always a but, months later, he warmly embraced trump and sought his endorsement when he ran for reelection. and last month he was one of the star witnesses in the house republican's first weaponization of the federal government hearings where he sewed distrust in the fbi now there's brand new reporting that details how house republicans are planning to reinvest january 6th with a panel led by congressman l lowdermilk this representative of california will serve as the top democrat in the committee told cbs news, i think it's obscene to go back and try to redo the work of a bipartisan committee that was very focused on learning what happened it serves no purpose other than if you're an insurrectionist or if you support an insurrectionist and want to portray a different story of what happened that day efforts to portray da different

story, unfortunately, narrowly end up in a political framework have been effective. a new economist and poll finds 27% of republicans either strongly or somewhat approve of the january 6th insurrection we begin the hour with pete struck and mary mccord, former top official in the justice department's national jury trial division i want to just lay take out the democrat with the republican said at the time versus now and deal with this as a threat as it is today ask if you're running the national security division at doj, what makes this safer what goes in the opposite direction? i imagine agreeing that a threat is a threat and an insurrection is an insurrection is a good place to start >> think that's right. what this reminds me of is the days of the soviet union when

somebody fell out of favor and were air brushed out of the picture standing next to stalin or whatever it might be. that's what we're seeing the republican party doing now they are air brushing history. if you're working in law enforcement at the capitol right now, the threat of violence has not gone away. if you're a police officer, an fbi agent or any number of any officials who have to work to not only protect the capitol, but to look at the potential threats out there, to have things going on where, one, you have kevin mccarthy releasing a awl of this footage, but beyond that, you have not just this sort of specific information about the capitol, you have this broad stroke attack against law enforcement. whether it's this new committee looking into actions on january 6th, jim jordan's insurrection committee, i don't want to give credit to what it is, but there's this insidious effort to

undermine the work broadly of what law enforcement is doing. and try as they might, law enforcement, whoever they might be, are going to show up and do their job. to showing these techniques and footage of anything else, you do have this sort of barrage of attacks that invariable, you can't hp but notice it i think it poses the unique challenge when you look at the moral across the board, none of these things, it just make it is difficult even more challenging. >> pete, 27% of republicans have this view that the insurrection wasn't an insurrection at all. if you had to guess, what percentage, it any, of people in the fbi see it that way? >> i don't know how you can look at a body of work, which includes at this point we maybe past 1,000 charged individuals, who participated on the insurrection of january 6th.

i don't know how anybody in an organization charged with investigating those crimes was working hand and glove, day after day after day with the department of justice and prosecutors to bring these cases. i think everybody involved in that effort is absolutely krystal clear aware of what occurred, about the damage that occurred, no officers injured who were taken to the hospital that day, so i don't think there's any real question on the part of anybody working on these prosecutions about exactly what occurred >> so is let's go zero percent think it was a good thing. you have 30% of republicans who are against the way the fbi sees the insurrection it's an extraordinary moment for the republican party 30% of republicans do not see an attack on the homeland the same way the fbi does and as you saud, they are running some bs committee about the federal government they are politicizing the work of an agency, and i take your word for it. nobody in the fbi thinks it wasn't an insurrection

how does the fbi function when 30% of republicans in the country don't believe a crime scene is a crime scene >> i think it's challenging. i don't know all the members to ask them it's like ily when you have a group of people that large, not involved in the direinvestigatis and flung across the united states and all around the world might people have a centertain , thaw might setting aside there was an insurrection, look at it in terms of backing the blue. every republican out there says we're a strong supporter of law enforcement. we back the blue how about the hundreds of officers injured who had horrible photographs of stitches and swollen limbs where they had been sprayed and everything else. that's the kind of thing i don't understand if you go to the 23% of republicans are out there, or

whatever the number is, say let's lay down all these photographs from the hospital. is this something you support? because i don't know how anybody with a straight face can say that's all right peemg who aren't thinking about what occurred, who are watching tucker carlson and all these peaceful protesters by picking two minutes out of hundreds of thousands of hours of coverage and aren't chalking or being presented with the truth of what occurred >> harry dunn said, tomorrow marks 800 days since january 6th. no world should it take 800 days to determine if someone broke the law. why are we at the 800-day mark without finding the people that suspect the hit man.

why are we at day 800 without any signs of donald trump, people who were safe from the violence at the capitol that day, being held to account >> these are things we talked about over those 800 days. i think it makes sense the way the investigation started where you charge and indict and try and convict your most readily provable offenses, which are people that attacked the capitol. then you work your way up from there. all indications are that that is what is happening. that's the investigation that jack smith has take over we certainly know from reporting that there have been a number of people very closes to the former president who have been subpoenaed in recent weeks and months it appears that some of those people are not cooperating. it's also been reporting that jack smith sought the assistance or sought to appeal to the chief judge in d.c. for her help for

the judge to intervene where people are not cooperating so i do think that the justice department will feel some pressure to make decision bfrs we get too far into the 2024 elections, so we're all waiting to see what will happen. and it is unfortunate that it's taking so long, but i will say it's not unusual in a case of this nature. i say this nature, there's nothing of this nature that i experienced in my more than 23 years in the department. but a case of this magnitude, it does take some time. the records are volumous is and getting the right evidence, if the department is going to indict a former president, they want it to be locked up solid. getting the evidence to get them to that comfort level does take some time. i can malk that officer dunn's disappointment and anxiety waiting for this also just want to mention given

the questions you were just asking to pete about the impact of those republican viewpoints and the new committee to reinvestigate january 6th, this is all undermining to the ongoing existing investigations and prosecutions of nearly a thousand people. essentially it's having elected members saying while these prosecutions are going on this was just peaceful protests and i think that that is so damaging to the rule of law. the rule of law is a compact between the governed and governed know you're going to say how about trump, and that's fair we're talking about that but to be actively something that almost every one of them the day after january 6th came out denounce whag they saw, they didn't have any trouble then referring to an exactly what it was, an insurrection

and to change that narrative now in the hill of all these prosecutions for what appears to be political purposes is really abandoning any notion of the rule of law in the united states, which is very unde undermining to democracy and to our national security. >> are you surprised >> what are we surprise d about anymore? and ugh i would expect more of our leaders. i would expect more of the day after january 6th said the truth, because it's so easily for us to view it for ourselves. even with the few snippets that teucker carlson found of peacefu walking through the capitol at various points there are thousands and thousands of hours of video that shows something different. so to me, the gull, to then just

tell lies about what we see for our own eyes and ears still surprises me >> you're experts in koubt terrorism. just explain how an assault on truth is instrumental in the process of radicalization and recruitment. how do you get someone to fly an airplane into the world trade center that's the first step? >> so what we have seen is often times it is that radicalization based on false narratives. for isis, it was a lot of false narratives about the west, about the united states and things that they can draw people into believing by being more extreme in their content they take advantage of platforms like social media to help draw people into that but those lies and propaganda

drive real action. we see it time and time again. that's what's so worrisome about this it's not new even here january 6th itself was the result of a false narrative that was not only promoted by the former president, but was adopted by many others, including people in positions of power with a veneer of credibility, who use those platforms to spread disinformation, to spread lies, which led directly to people stepping out of that virtual space, into the physical space, and some of them truly believing there had been election fraud. some not knowing, but going along with it and committed an insurrection it's not okay, it's not consistent with rule of law when you don't like the results of something to go physically, vie will notally try to prevent a peaceful tran suggestion of power. presidents change every four years. there's an opportunity to vote for whose policies you agree with, and we don't under our rule of law, if you disagree,

you don't try to violently prevent that transfer of power it's very damaging that false narratives continue to be created, which will cause people to take action in the real world. >> it's not a quiz it was created by donald trump it was echoed by fox news. it was processed and heard by trump supporters and i'm not frustrated and i don't think harry has anxiety about the length of time what's clear is our department of justice isn't interested in getting at the root cause of this violent attack on the u.s. capital. there are now signs that the department of justice national security division, which you ran, has been investigating this i know it doesn't end in charges, but there's no signs they viewed it that way. andy mccabe wrote a book saying i opened a counterintelligence

investigation. i know these aren't the sorts of things that resolve in public airing of what was discovered, but it is abun ddantly clear, y just outlined classic extremism, that no one at doj this terms of a criminal investigation has attacked donald trump's role in the insurrection in any way in the weeks, months and years after the attack itself. is that a fair assessment in terms of what's public faising >> think there was investigation on going before jack smith was appointed to take it over. i think there was. because even though there might not have been a the lot of manifestations, no spotting of witnesses at the grand jury, there's a whole lot that you'd do before you did anything that was overt. you'd want to make sure you had

as much evidence who might be trying to protect the president. there are things they could con conduct. i find it impossible to believe my colleagues were not taking those steps. and i know that there would have been people at the u.s. attorney's office in d.c., or the national security division where i spent three years, who would have been push trg that and i think it's been slow i think the department has been careful not to say too much about it but they have said more about this than often times the department says a about ongoing investigations i think it will be incumbent upon him to give some conclusion whether there's charges, there will be announcement relate ed to that. there are not charges it will be incumbent upon the department to explain why.

>> you join an intense conversation about the real multiprong efforts to rewrite the events of january 6th. which were never in dispute. but more than just covering the whitewashing as an event, as a circus like feature, i want to understand why you think it's happening. >> the republican party and after the midterms, where they came in below expectation, they were at a cross roads where they could either reset on january 6th, recognizing that voters rejected extremism, or rewrite there's no way that the present status of the country is that we reject extremism, we connect january 6th so they are choosing

to rewrite path here so erase the heroism torks hold up as virge oust to visit them in a congressional delegation. it's not going to work the american people know what happened that day. they continue to reject extremism. i will continue to bet that the american people. the rule of law to prevail. >> 27% of republicans on whom these lies have worked is and they do represent based on testimony at the rising foot of domestic violent extremism and the activation either by trump saying stand back and stand by or growing popularity of some of the maly sha groups. i wonder what you think we should do to protect people in law enforcement. fbi field office was attacked.

most people don't cosign those lies these crimes, you have a third of one of the country's two political parties, who think it was a good thing >> violent rhetoric put a target on the backs of all law enforcement. they walked the beat every day if you're hearing defund the fbi and the fbi was responsible for a false flag operation, you don't distinguish between an fbi special agent and a police officer, you consider it as law enforcement and the deep state so that's why we saw the attack ta we did at the fbi field office we're going to continue to see attacks on law enforcement until this violent rhetoric is disowned, disabused and discredited by mccarthy and

those at top if they don't condemn it, they are cob doning it. so what do we do we say here in the bay area, just win, baby we have to keep winning elections. >> you're good at helping your party craft political messages and i'm not aware of republicans defending jim comey when he was fired for refusing to see to it to let mike flynn go he's a good man. i'm not aware of republicans defe defending andrew mccabe when he was fired by donald trump over twitter days from receiving his pension. i'm not aware of any republicans coming to the defense of any of his colleagues who were fired from the fbi are you aware of any prominent republicans putting out good, supportive rhetoric about any of the fbi individuals or or the agency when it comes under

attack >> no, and i was the top democrat on a hearing last week around jim jor dab's obstruction of justice committee, where they hauled in the department of justice in a very rich way jim jordan was complaining they were not complying with subpoena ises but every republican on their side pointed out all the violent threats to other judges around the country. i took that opportunity to interact with him. i said i condemn violent threats to justice cavanaugh i condemn when tucker carlson had protesters in his house harassing his wife why won't you condemn the threats to school board members or the violent threat toos our colleagues they justen won't because they are so beholden to that 25 to 30% base >> congressman swalwell, i know you're multitasking today.

thank you for taking time to join this conversation this conversation is to be continued. ahead for us, new reporting in the classified documents investigation. why special counsel jack smith wants answers about wasn't phone call between the ex-president and his attorney just as investigators were gathering evidence about trump's potential obstruction of that probe. later in the hour, florida's outrageous assault on african-american history is getting even more alarming if that's possible governor ron desantis anti-woke agenda now has publishers going out of their way to avoid any references to race at all in social studies textbooks even in the case of the civil rights movement. we continue after a quick break. dot n'go anywhere today. ♪ ♪ to all the chevy silverado owners out there. the adventurers and the doers.

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following several breaking developments that are shedding more light on social counsel jack smut's investigation into the x president's possible obstruction of the government investigation as they attempted to retrieve classified documents that he took with him when he left the white house several sources familiar with this had matter are telling abc news that the special counsel wants to question trump attorney evan kork rinse about a phone call with the ex-president as investigators were building evidence from abc's reporting. jack smith has pressed for a federal judge in washington, d.c. to pierce privilege and force him to testify but a june 24th, 2022 phone call

that investigators believe he held with trump. the timing of the alleged call would have been on the same day that investigators subpoenaed the trump org for surveillance footage from mar-a-lago as the government started growing more suspicious that classified documents had not been turned over despite one of his attorneys awe certificating in a sworn statement he complied with the subpoena to turn over those documents. in a statement to abc news, a spokesperson for donald trump said that he did nothing wrong i would not be deterred from what it's not clear. the nusz of this phone call comes as we're getting more information about the scope of the investigation. cnn is reporting that at least two goz dozen people from the staff to members of the former president's inner circle have been subpoena issed to testify in front of smith's federal grand jury according to sources familiar with the investigation. what do these little kept private for a bunch of reasons to protect the investigation, also to protect any subjects or targets of it, but tell me what

these outward facing tea leaves say to you >> it's a big deal first, it's important to remember that all the work that has to take place before we get to this point. certainly when it comes to something like piercing attorney/client privilege, that's a very high bar to do in any event. when you're talking about a former president and his communications with his attorney, to even contemplate that your going to go to a judge and assert the exception or assume that is the exception that they are arguing for, you've got to have a lot of strong evidence to support that request. so it tells me there's a lot of evidence and thfgs that the government has that we probably don't know about that they are using to support this request to pierce that privilege. the other thing is it doesn't surprise me that they are bringing these people into the the grand jury it's something you want to do to get not only the facts in, but you want to lock people into their story. i'm sure not all these people

have been interviewed by agents and attorneys. when you bring them into the grand jury, you're giving that information to the grand jurors, but you're locking them into th statement. it mel tells me that you tend to do these and see them in bursts of activity. you'll wait until the point where you interviewed all the folks that you want to interview and say let's get all these folks in front of the grand jury and you see subpoenas go out then you get either those individuals and their attorneys who talk to the media and see ripples like this going on but it tells me that jack smith and his team have reached the point where they think it's appropriate to reach out to this broad community and start bringing them into the grand jury and locking them down >> i wonder what you can add to our understanding of this particular call. this happens after they have been able to look at this security camera footage based on the abc news reporting, but before the search of mar-a-lago.

what sort of theories mugt you have about whew this phone call is important >> if i'm understanding the time line, it would be that certification of due diligence that in responding to the subpoena, which through his attorneys, through which some documents were provided. this occurred after that, but before the search. it may have had something to do with what was represented in that communication with the response to the subpoena and what was not represented in that communication it may have something to do with surveillance video and what the expectations are about what else might still be in the mar-a-lago facility so the timing, again, between

the subpoena, the response to the subpoena with some documents, but clearly not what the government thought was all of them, and the later search warrant suggested that the department and to echo pete, to go and assert the fraud exception to attorney-client privilege means they have some evidence that he may have been involved in this cover-up. attorney-client privilege is a privilege that's rarely pierced because it's supposed to protect those communications between an toesh and his client, but it can be because for obvious reasons, we don't want attorneys and their clients to be in conspiracies or collaborations to violate the law and i don't know how much he knew at the time or what those conversations were about, but that's exactly what jack smith wants to find out. >> does it suggest, and it maybe wrong that we have day fer indicated into an obstruction

investigation that's separate from the investigation into the documents, but at least when you read the affidavit, it suggests there's evidence in both buckets. does it suggest to you that both the criminal obstruction of justice investigation that was alluded to in that affidavit and the mishandling of classified documents investigation are both still alive and well >> i think so. they were both the subject, as you know, of the search warrant. it was heavily redacted, but we know enough to know that there's been nothing that i have seen so far and i would say much more to the contrary, there's nothing that i have seen so far to suggest they are no longer investigating obstruction. the very fact they want to talk to lawyers like evan corcoran and others within mar-a-lago, who may have seen boxes being moved or made themselves have engaged in moving documents, that says to me, yeah, they are

still interested in whether there's more document there is and how they can show the path of the dlts that have been found in the search warrant, but actually, i think a loot of this shows they are interested in the obstruction offense >> thank you both. i am grateful to both of you thank you so much for spending time with us today when we come back, how the state of florida is systemically whitewashing african-american history and culture all in service of governor desantis' political ambitions. that's next.

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if you thought scouring textbooks for any instances or messages of critical race theory, it's a graduate level economic concept is was an alarming thing for the state of florida to do and perhaps even a little weird embrace yourself at some point in the next few weeks, the state of florida is expected to release a series of decisions following a similar scouring of textbooks for their social studies curriculum. s classes where students are supposed to be taught about history, american slavery, or as ron desantis calls it, the enslavement experience it's like a ride at disney

it's still unclear when percentage of the textbooks will be rejected, although if the math example was any indication, it will be a lot but already the florida governor's stop woke crusade has shown a confused and chilling effect in the part of the publishers of the textbooks. "the new york times" in a sign of how fraught it's become, one created multiple version ises of its material softening or eliminate ing references to race, even in the story of rosa parks, is it sought to gain approval in florida. joins our conch at the table is director of the policy program at hunter college. also with us former congresswoman donna edwards. bacile, i'm going to retrain myself not to feel surprised, but it is horrifying that we're having a fight about the definition of slavery and calling it an enslavement

experience that before we get to the books is a terrifying oman >> at some point in florida by people reduce d to pictures without stories. >> maybe i'm sure those won't get through. it's not lost on me that rosa parks is is a focal point because she's seen or talked about in the narrativetive of the civil rights movement as its catalyst to remove so much of this story around civil rights, we use rosa parks as a focal point of that, it's so incredibly pernicious. ron desantis, he's taking all in control. he's not only influenced these hyperlocal school board elections, but it is clear that he is now influencing outside interests. the african-american a p studies exam is not a one off. there's clearly a large strategy here and we have to talk about the role that not just the college

board, but these textbook publishers play in how our kids are taught in k-12 education they exert an extraordinary amount of influence, but they are private entities that are not unwilling to bend to political pressure it's clear that ron desantis is going to push them on. our culture are is reproduced in schools. he's bent that one is privileged over so many others. >> what's the cultural nar ty? what is he pointing toward there's a fear of the changes that this country is experiencing in terms of its day investigator versety in his thinking that he gets power and the people he cares about gets power if you tamp down on the agency of some

communities and ramp up the agency of others, he is intent upon doing that with all the power in his tool belt having said that, we have to be mindful he's not the only one doing it that there were governors that are like minded. and they are not running for president. he's going to attract more of the attention. but it's having everywhere in this country >> the politics again are not so good the children he's seeking to brainwash and uneducate about the true history won't be voting for a long time. so even if it they buy his whitewash of american history, they are not going to be voting for many elections the kind of people that move to florida if they left the pandemic are not going to be drawn to american history that is so widely known. the third thick is who are you

whitewashing it for. by 11 or 12 kids have phones and can learn the truth any way. what is this >> in the real context, ron desantis wants to eviscerate public education also at the college level. i'm not really sure who he is playing to because a majority of the american people actually support the idea of teaching a broad-based education to their children, making sure that they have a full understanding of history, that they develop as critical thinkers and so ron desantis is playing to the narrow slice of people within the republican party, but it doesn't really speak to the larger context and i have to say looking at k-12 education, i'm going to put honous on the book publishers. because i think that they have a responsibility to reject this idea of rewriting history and rewriting the social studies and

history books. how do you teach rosa parks without talking about segregation. it's ridiculous. so these companies have to set apseudotheir profits for a moment and not allow one state, one governor, one legislature to completely rewrite education for the rest of us >> i would just say one other important and dangerous trend we have seen an increase meansing that states are surping power to do more, to take more agency away from local communities. if you have fern families leaders who have been trying to make the curriculum more and more inclusive over the deck kalds of the civil rights movement, states are taking that control away so they can engage

in this larger whitewashing of curriculum it's a very dangerous trend that has impacts in a lot of other policy areas we need to be watching that. it's something if you have folks moving from northeast to the southern states, whether it's cities or suburbs, it means that red state governors and legislatures are trying to take power. >> it's so breasting because they don't want the federal government to have t but it's this real threading the needle for political purposes we need you to stick around because there's more when we come back how a new proposal in florida can mean the end of black fraternities and sororities on college campuses that news, next.

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we have is sought to cover it all here, textbooks in grade school, the ap courses in high school, now aspects of black culture and unity and support on college campuses are under attack in florida. the hill reports this, house bill 999, or the public post secondary educational institutions, bans colleges from financially supporting any programs or campus activities that sho the language has led to concerns that black fraternities and sororities will be barred from florida campuses under proposed

legislation. we're are members of some of our oldest black fraternities and sororities that would be impacted by this florida law donna, i know you're wearing your colors today, right >> absolutely, i am. i feel like this move in florida is a real assault not just on black culture, but keep in mind sororities and fraternities like mine and bazzle's play important roles in communities working with at-risk children, working with organizations like the march of dimes and supporting domestic violence shelters and programs and promoting scholarships, millions of dollars in scholarships that are offered by fraternal organizations every year, and part of the a those of culture on campuses across the country, whether those are at hbcus or majority white institutions like

the one i attended at wake forest university. i feel like this is another in the list of growing assaults on black people being espoused by the florida legislature and act lites of ron desantis playing to this very narrow slice of the american public. and not pretending anymore that it isn't a racist play in this country. >> yeah, i mean, it is -- desantis has almost accelerated the racism as the point. >> right, and he has -- to donna's point, the common thread among the organizations is you got to vote. we want our folks to go to college. it's about racial and economic uplift started in my fraternity, martin luther king was a member, rafael

warnock was a member. >> what threat do they pose to ron desantis >> the threat they pose, including the aka in washington, d.c., kamala harris, our vice president. the threat they pose is that number one, you're going to see a lot of -- you have seen and will continue to see folks that are part of organizations that have this clear civil rights mission to go out and make sure our folks are informed, that we're engaged and that we're mobilized. and what he's frafraid of -- leader os bureaucratic power, to say, i'm going to -- as much individuals and organizations have to collectively engage. it's dangerous, pernicious, i'm not sure it's legal at the end of the day

>> there's nothing in this bill about targeting predominantly white fraternities or sororities. >> when you look at organizations we have had on campuses for over 400 years, even at the embryonic stages of the civil rights movement when alpha fie -- these are organizations and so many others on college campuses that are about brewing thought national change and engaged in conversations about how to promote the diaspora. >> it's incredible we'll stay on it sorry for my tickle coming back. thank you so much for joining us today. another quick break. we'll be right back.

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president biden predicts arizona will be the last school standing on the men's side, good luck to everyone we will be right back.

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