manufacturing, to make more stuff in america we took a big step forward last year with the chips act which passed on a bipartisan vote, championed by president biden to bring semiconductor manufacturing back to the united states we should do more of that. more incentives to manufacture, to make more in america is ultimately the most important thing we can do to compete with china going forward. >> we'll be looking for more of those hearings in the weeks ahead. congressman seth magaziner of rhode island, thank you so much for joining us this morning. and thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" on this friday morning and all week long "morning joe" starts right now have a good weekend, everybody. the cavaliers are playing with four guards, and the four guards out there along with several of their best free throw shooters >> he threw it away! >> clark will inbound. 2.4. they added a little bit of time.

it's big men good if it goes. fuhrman has won. >> one-possession game arizona needs three to send this thing to overtime. >> get a quick two if you can. >> 15 seconds left >> that's not it. >> air ball. >> that's not it. >> trying to keep it alive shot is no good. >> arizona with a shot that will not go the tigers of princeton growl their way into round two >> how many of you had number 15 princeton over second seeded arizona? number 13 fuhrman knocking off uva? jonathan lemire, unfortunately for me, i had the whole thing,

the final four wrapping up with uca beating arizona. how am i doing how am i doing do i have a chance actually, i talked to some people that had uva and arizona in the final four. ouch, that hurts >> that bracket is officially busted, anyone who had that. president biden picked arizona to win the whole thing they were a popular choice this is why march madness is so great, joe you know, college basketball, maybe during the regular season matters less on the sporting landscape than it used to, but for this month, it owns the stage. we had great games as yesterday. my brother is a uva bragrad, so is mourning. princeton dow jing it again great fun. >> they do this all the time who is coughing? >> joe, let's see, let's see, who on this show possibly could be trying to butt in when he's not on camera? john heilemann. >> go ahead, heilemann.

>> go, cats, northwestern university first round victory, joe arrived over boise state therefore, my bracket is in tact i have northwestern going all the way. >> going all the way, huh, northwestern is? >> i'm a proud alum, joe you know, i'm with them all the way to the end we're going to plow through the second round don't worry. >> i don't follow it too closely during the season. i'm too interested -- in the offseason, this time of year, i'm busy looking at the prospects the red sox have gotten in the offseason. >> right. >> lemire and i have a huge white board. we have to figure out how the 38-year-olds are doing we're writing it down. seeing if they have cataract problems, the new signings joey scarborough yesterday told me -- i didn't know how good arizona was. he said now that arizona lost and they're out, alabama is favored against the field.

that they were seen as that much of an obstacle to alabama being able to move forward anyway, it's crazy not as crazy, though, as the back pages, jonathan lemire, of the new york newspapers. crazy for trying to highlight the mets-iest thing that has ever happened. fans say it is not the mets-iest thing. >> resetting the stagefrom yesterday, diaz, the mets all-star closer who signed a $100 million extension, best reliever in the league last year while celebrating, not while pitching, was jumping up and down with his teammates, landed awkwardly, suffered a major leg injury you're seeing him here he had to be wheelchaired off the field the other night. news came yesterday, which all mets fans feared and, frankly, some expected, he is out for the season

he will not throw a single pitch for the mets this year because he got injured celebrating with his teammates and his brother, who is the one hugging him right there. the back page of the tabloids, as you can imagine, had their takes. "stop the music" by "the daily news." last year, diaz had a popular intro, where he came in with trumpets blaring "the new york post" goes with "the sound of silence," and mr. met is weeping mets fans, this is a pretty tortured franchise, joe, for a long time. they have come to expect things to go wrong. there's that clip that was sent along yesterday, a "family guy" clip, which it says, "oh, i opening day, mets fans," and the fan is throwing the hat down they feel like season over. >> when the theme song goes

"meet the mets, beat the mets," you know, this is not a franchise that's had a storied history. let's bring in a member of "the new york times" editorial board, mara gay if you want to talk basketball, the new york mets, whatever, the floor is open. >> good morning. >> did you fill out a bracket? >> oh, no, that is not my land i'm just here to observe >> michigan, they're more of a football powerhouse. >> i'm a fan in every way. i'll watch the gymnastics. i'll watch football, basketball. >> michigan gymnastics, is that a thing? >> of course. >> of course it's a thing. >> i'm asking a question i don't know about michigan gymnastics sorry. just asking the question. >> i mean, let me tell you, i mean, i don't fill out the march madness, but mara and i always call each other. for the gymnastics finals, we fill out the brackets for gymnastics finals. >> that's in april.

>> you guys are way down the sports rabbit hole for me. >> you're dressed up for st. patrick's day. >> i am. >> she has the green. >> i'm irish there you go. >> look at that. i forgot my green tie. let's also bring in david ignatius he, of course, is the columnist and associate editor for "washington post." former white house press secretary, now msnbc host jen psaki. appropriately dressed, unlike me her show, "inside with jen psaki" debuts this sunday. on st. patrick's day, she and mara know what to wear i forgot the green tie. >> i got it. >> mara and david and i are going to be filling out our bracket over here with no knowledge of basketball, and we're just as likely to win. that's the thing that's a little scary. >> i know. well, let's start with a new poll that just came out moments ago. see what mr. heilemann has to say about donald trump and ron

desantis statistically tied in florida, a new emerson college poll has trump leading desantis 47% to 44% among registered voters the thing is, i think it is interesting how you have these themes take off, these narratives just break out, john. the new narrative is, oh, donald trump is way ahead of desantis he is blowing up you know, this is not going to be close we've seen some polls that show that, but this emerson poll shows it close in florida. there are other states that desantis is doing very well. this could be a long, hard battle if desantis were to step in >> yeah, joe, you know, the classic cliche is, it's early for these matchups in the field. desantis is not even in the race, and the rest of the field is not taking shape. look, you're a man who knows something about florida. in some ways, i defer to you on this if i'm donald trump and i spent my entire -- the last year,

certainly the last few months, denigrating ron desantis in every possible way, you know, claiming he wouldn't -- he wouldn't be governor if it wasn't for trump, but he also wasn't that good of a governor because florida's dsuccess has little to do with desantis conflicting arguments. he's trying to find any angle in on why tiny d, desanctimonious, take your pick, meatball ron, why he is not the pick am i a little troubled i'm in a statistical tie with desantis for the hearts and minds of florida voters at this stage if i was trump, knowing his not fully robust ego, i imagine he doesn't like the look of the poll he'd like a little more distance between him and ron desantis. >> no doubt about it the fact s not everybody knows who ron desantis is. in florida they do the other polls, when they get

on the trail, crazy things happen you look ahtt barack obama in 2007/2008. at this time in 2007, the r runaway prohibitive favorites in every poll we were showing our first year on "morning joe" were hillary clinton and rudy giuliani of course, that was not to be in 2008 we still have a very long way to do, jonathan lemire. again, this race, we don't know how it goes. i do know this, though, that we've all been asking, what will it take for republicans to turn against donald trump i've heard more negative comments about donald trump when he attacks ron desantis than i have for when he tries to overthrow american democracy >> totally. >> than when he tries to get his attorney general to arrest his opponent and his opponent's family and put them in barges off of gitmo when he commits one impeachable

offense after another, the republican base, they don't care too much about that. i guess they think, it's just democracy after all. when he attacks ron desantis, there is a political cost for that this is all he's doing right now. he doesn't understand that since ron desantis was the only republican to have a good night in 2022, republicans see him as a winner they see trump as a loser. they don't appreciate him attacking ron desantis they don't look at this guy like he is lindsey graham or rand paul or little marco >> yeah. the interesting dynamic here is, and, again, we'll stress, it's so early, but this is a two-person race. >> it is. >> it is desantis and trump. all the anti-trump forces -- and, to be clear, they've grown in the republican party -- have all coalesced around desantis, who also has a lot of favorable coverage on fox news, a literally softball interview this week that, joe, we talked a little bit about so, therefore, i think members

of the republican base don't want to see these sort of attacks here but i'm going to take the other way on the pollm we saw desantis win in a landslide, get re-elected in november we have seen that his political purposes, pulling levers of government to achieve things in florida has been pretty successful he has a rubberstamp state legislature in tallahassee the fact trump is in a tie with him there isn't terrible we are seeing that trump is doing much better than he is everywhere else. that's the unknown when the voters in new hampshire, south carolina, iowa, mara, get to know desantis more, will they like him more or less? there have been questions about his retail political skills. we know what he does, what he works in florida what we don't know is whether it'll work everywhere else. >> whether he has the same magic, so to speak, magic we don't love, necessarily, but magic that propelled trump to victory and nearly won him the election twice desantis might be popular with a base of republicans who just want to win and is sick of

trump. that doesn't mean that he is going to be able to connect with voters in the same way that donald trump did, drawing those enormous rallies i think we're going to start to kind of find out when we get a road show going for desantis pretty soon here, whether he has that thing that's the thing donald trump had, barack obama had. we'll find out you know, the other awkward element here, i think, is age. i was talking to some republicans this weekend down south, actually, and, you know, there are some people who say they would rather see somebody around desantis' age, you know, go up against the president. so that's another factor you know, you just don't know how voters are actually thinking about that consciously or not. there's a lot of factors here. this is why it is early in the game, and this is why we're going to have to wait and see. >> david ignatius, we've got some other stories to move on to, but i just want to circle back since we're talking about desantis, talking about the republican party, and i mentioned marco rubio's name, it

reminds me of what i think the big story was this week. not just for the united states -- not just for republicans politically in this little intermural battle, but also for the united states, how people see us across the world ron desantis, more than likely going to be one of the two republican nominees for president, has said that russia's invasion of ukraine was nothing more than a territorial dispute, echoing the kremlin's own language and it wasn't in the u.s.' interest to stop russia from invading other countries in europe that's, first of all, deeply troubling and something that was heard in capitals across the world. also, though, i thought it important that we heard from marco rubio. we heard from lindsey graham we heard from john cornyn. we heard from john thune the thing that mitch mcconnell

and other republicans have been saying that is, this is insanity. lindsey graham especially outspoken against it, saying, this is neville chamberlain thinking lindsey said what i've said and what a lot of other people have said for some time now, the chinese are watching very closely. anybody who doesn't think that weakness against putin will not be translated into a green light for china going into taiwan just doesn't understand geopolitics. >> this was the first big mistake, i think, that desantis has made it is interesting he got called on it right away, and aggressively a lot of the voices, republican members of the senate who were silent about trump's excesses, spoke out loudly, as you say people like lindsey graham, who seems ready to support anything donald trump says. when desantis made these

comments about ukraine, bam. very strong response i think that was significant i'd be encouraged if i were the ukrainians, that there's broader support in the republican party for sticking with it certainly, the people watching this race most carefully, right now, are the russians, who wonder, if we just last it out, if we get through to a republican president after the 2024 elections, is this over do we get a pass listening to ron desantis, you'd think, yeah. if ron desantis or donald trump wins, you do get a pass. i think it was a big week. the pushback was important sure like to hear those people push back on some other things that trump and desantis have been saying that are harmful to the party. but this was a start >> as john heilemann pointed out, they pushed back against ron desantis, not against donald trump. the positions are the same, so they apply to both speaking of this, former

president trump is laying out his plan to, in his words, stop world war iii. here's a point. >> finally, we have to finish the process we began under my administration of fundamentally revaluating nato's purpose and nato's mission our foreign policy establishment keeps trying to pull the world into conflict with a nuclear-armed russia, based on the lie that russia represents our greatest threat. but the greatest threat to western civilization today is not russia, it's probably, more than anything else, ourselves and some of the horrible usa hating people that represent us. it's the abolition of our national borders it's the failure to police our own cities it's the destruction of the rule of law from within it's the collapse of the nuclear

family, and fertility rates like nobody can believe is happening. it's the marxists who would have us become a godless nation, worshipping at the altar of race and gender. >> blah, blah, blah. do you know what's boring to me? what's boring is the hatred for america. the hatred for america that you hear spewing from donald trump's mouth. donald trump hated america before he became president of the united states. talked about how the american dream was dead yeah, try telling that to the immigrants, the migrants, the refugees risking their lives to come to the united states of america. because, what do they believe in, the american dream talk to immigrants that get here they will tell you about the american dream it's talked about all over the world. all over the world here is donald trump, jen psaki. it's crazy donald trump hates america listen to him talk about it.

the united states, the country, as fox news anchors used to remind us, the country that fed and -- wait, this country has fed and freed more people than any other planet in the history of the world roger was right on that one. we have. we continue to the united states, we won world war one, we won world war ii with the help of our allies. we were the driving force. we were the arsenal of democracy. look what we are doing, helping ukraine push back against war crimes daily yet, all donald trump does, all other people do is, they bash the united states of america they attack the united states military, our men and women in armed forces they attack our intel community.

they hate america. by their own words if they hate it so much, why don't they move to russia? russia will take 'em they've taken steven segal they'll take donald trump and everybody else saying that the u.s. military is going to use helicopters that it used in afghanistan to kill americans who voted for trump. they hate us they hate america, so why are they still here? >> you heard it here first, you're sending people to russia. putin, welcome some republican candidates look, joe, it's trump, as you said it's desantis. it is sarah huckabee sanders if you listen to the rhetoric from the most powerful voices in the republican right-wing of the party, they are painting the country and painting the future as this dark, depressing, ominous dystopia, right? everything is terrible all things are terrible. everything is dark

i think ron desantis called it a woke ocracy. i don't know what that means, but i needed to use that phrase. that's not who the country is, of course, but it is also not what people in the country want to vote for. we're always a work in progress, but people want optimism they want solutions. they want something they can get excited about and support, that's going to make their lives better instead, it's this race to a darker dystopia on the right, which is kind of fascinating i also don't think it's the right strategy to win. >> also, it's just a lie how crazy, donald trump says the american dream is dead and america is a horrible place. then he is elected, and he loses. suddenly, america is this horrible place again david ignatius, you've been across the world you've seen the good america does we make mistakes we talk about it here.

we are struggling toward becoming a more perfect union every day. at the same time, abraham lincoln said america was the last best hope for a dying world. ronald reagan said it was a city shining on a hill brightly for everybody to see yes, maybe inside america, sometimes we don't recognize it, but go around the world. there are millions and millions of people who do yet, donald trump says instead of a city shining brightly on the hill for all to see, he says america is the greatest threat to western civilization. those are words taken straight out of the mouth of orban. >> well, yeah, i absolutely agree that trump's criticism of the united states is misplaced and can be very harmful to us. i would say, joe, that the biggest threat to our future, in

my judgment, does not lie outside our borders. it lies within america unless we can make our democracy work better, unless we can get our economy going reliably, strongly, unless we can make people feel they're a part of a country they believe in, we're in trouble in that sense, looking inward, taking care of our country, of our economy does make sense. it's something that i think joe biden has tried to do. it's been a centerpiece of his foreign policy from the be beginning. he said, i want a foreign policy for the middle class, meaning everything we do needs to benefit ordinary americans i think that's right i'm in sympathy with the idea that our problems aren't just overseas, that they're here, too. >> yeah. you know, john heilemann, so much of it are problems s are fm people who say they want two

americas unemployment, 50-year low. dollar at a generational high. childhood poverty at 60-year lows teen pregnancy, 60-year lows our economy, we're still the standard, the strongest economy. our military relative to the rest of the world stronger than it has been since 1945 yet, all these republicans do when they're not in power, if they lose one election, they hate america they hate our military they hate our intel services they say america is going to hell when, in fact, you look at the numbers, we're doing pretty darn well. >> yeah. look, i mean, joe, the out of power party is going to -- they're not going to say, "hey, america is doing great it's morning again in america. that's an argument for sticking with joe biden and the democrats, so there's going to be a critique. the question is what the tenor

of the critique is and what the proposed vision for making america better both parties will have competing visions. what you guys -- we've been talking about this for months. the thing for donald trump and ron desantis and the rest of the republicans who want to be first the republican standard bearer and the next president of the united states on the republican side is, what's the path to being able to win that republican nomination fight? you know, it's the case that trump's base has been a grievance caucus, you know, for -- since the 2015/2016 experience for trump got him the nomination, made him the president. it didn't keep him the president in 2020. the grievance caucus was not enough to win. it hasn't been enough for republicans to win ever since, as we pointed out repeatedly down ballot, if you were with trump, it didn't help. didn't help the election deniers in 2022. didn't help republicans to fair better in the midterm elections more broadly

the question right now is, for the republican party, making a -- saying that there are things that republicans think that joe biden is not good at, not doing well, that's what the election will be about that's all right the question is whether the rage caucus, the snowflake caucus, the grievance caucus is going to dominate this republican nominating fight or not. right now, if you believe, to go back to the first topic this morning a-block here, it's a two-person fight, really only two people right now could be the republican nominee. desantis and donald trump. they're both racing further and further, not just to the right, because i don't think that seems the right way to describe it, it's further and further into the dystopia, as jen psaki put it, sketching out the dystopian vision of america and not putting out an optimistic view on how to view it. it'll be all complaint, grievance, all rage, all snowflakism. if that's where the republican party is going, those are the main guys, there is an opening

for somebody else who can make a different kind of critique of bide sn and a didn't vision to t forward for the country. >> a little autocracy, maybe a lot, sprinkled in there. just look at their words look at their action look what they've done yes, criticize joe biden i mean, there are things to criticize joe biden about. you go after, whether you're republican and you want to go after afghanistan, his retreat from afghanistan you want to talk about him spending too much money on this program or that program. you want to blame him for inflation with the covid relief act. you'll want to talk about the border talk about all those things. we talked about them on the show here, right? so there are legitimate things to criticize joe biden about and have a debate over but talking about how america is the greatest threat to western civiluaizatio civilization i think it is really important

to keep things in perspective here, mara we have a guy who talked ability ame about american carnage when crime was at a 50-year low illegal crosses across the southern border was at a 50-year low. the economy was doing pretty darn well, a hell of a lot better than when we left, but he talked about carnage because he wasn't in office he was talking about, on our show, how he respected vladimir putin so much more than barack obama. that putin was a strong leader we kept saying, well, he kills journalists, he kills politicians, "he was a strong leader "he respects vladimir putin while attacking the united states then, of course, at the beginning of the russian invasion, what did he say? he said, "it was beautiful," his

words. he said putin was savvy for doing it he said, "we need that here in the united states. this is donald trump's vision of america. you talk about dystopian his vision of america is being a putin-like leader. don't trust me, trust donald trump's own words. >> well, joe, i'm glad we're having this conversation because i think, you know, this is the language, not just of dystopia, but of fascism, of white supremacy. this is coded language, and i think it is really important that we just kind of break down what that means. in this case, say to donald trump, what america are you talking about that is this greatest threat to western civilization what is it is it pluralism? is it the fact that immigrants want to still come here, as you pointed out, joe is it the fact that there are thriving cities in the united states that are filled with a diverse group of people that's a threat i mean, i think the anxieties

underlining this rage and coded language have to be confronted they're very real. even though, you know, that rage caucus, as john said, aptly so, wasn't enough to get donald trump over the finish line, it has remarkable staying power in american politics. we should take it seriously. i think it's never a bad thing to ask that question why, at a time when we could have very important debates for how to make the economy work for everyday americans, make sure our kids can do better than our parents did, or even fix the gun control law so our children aren't being mowed down, why are we still talking about this dystopia because the fears that donald trump and the radical republicans are playing to have very real resonance with americans. it doesn't make them bad people. that means that there are real fears that need to be addressed.

a lot of them have to do with demographics a lot of them are ancient in this country i think until we can kind of confront that, it's really hard to have a rational political conversation in this country >> you know, the thing is, that i've seen time and time again, doesn't matter whether it's come from a democrat or republican, optimism sells i go out and talk to people, and i tell 'em that we're going to win, that things are going in the right direction, that i really do believe that america's greatest days are ahead of us. i really do. it gives them hope you start talking that way, people start believing that way. instead, we have politicians that run america into the ground i've spent my adult life listening to people whose party is not in power talking about how the world is going to hell because their party is not in

the white house for those four years. i'm sick and tired of it when trump was president, i said the same time. we had a hell of a lot of challenges, but america's greatest days were ahead i will tell you, jen psaki, optimism wins. it just does yesterday, the words "trumpism doesn't scale" was used on this show i wrote it down. it is true trumpism, molly said it, trumpism doesn't scale i'll tell ya what else doesn't scale, and i'm dead serious, and republicans need to hear me here let those who have ears hear, hating america doesn't scale hope, optimism, faith in better days ahead scale believe it, then fight like hell for it, and then make it happen. that scales, jen this hating on america doesn't.

>> yeah. i agree. look, i also think fear doesn't sell, and it shouldn't sell. as mara was saying, a lot of this is fear in washington, we get wrapped up about, you know, things not being able to happen, government not functioning, and will trump benefitfrom a potential indi indictment it's all so dark and terrible. the truth is, there's actually a lot of things that are actually out in states that should be a good, inspiring moment for everybody to look to i was just in michigan yesterday with governor gretchen whitmer she has been under threat. she has security with her. she was almost kidnapped or they tried to kidnap her. know what she is doing he's not governing with fear, joe. she's trying to push through gun reform she's getting a lot done in michigan there are other states like that some of that is a more inspiring, uplifting reminder of what's possible, as opposed to this race to dystopian darkness and fear that we see on the

republican right-wing part of the party that's running for president. >> well, you know, the thing is, we so often talk about how things are going so horribly in america and the political system is broken. this is the disconnect, friends. under joe biden, over the last two years, a 50/50 senate passed more bipartisan legislation and got more things done legislatively than any president since -- i think you have to go back to lbj. joe biden passed bipartisan infrastructure legislation joe biden passed bipartisan gun safety legislation he passed bipartisan legislation to help us compete with china on chips. the chips act passed he passed relief for vets who

had been poisoned while at war i could keep going i could keep going but this is only a dystopian landscape. this is only a failure of a president and a political system if you're donald trump and you don't want things to get done. because joe biden has gotten things done. whether you like joe biden or not, you can say, well, even in a 50/50 nation, washington can work i think that's something to be happy about. i really do. i'm tired of people hating on america. hate doesn't scale pessimism against america doesn't scale. hope does. let's hope there will be a republican out there that steps forward, can deliver that message, and deliver it being strong enough to get some votes going into next year, to give us

some hope that, one day again soon, we may have two functioning parties in america still ahead on "morning joe," we're going to be talking about a big move this is a big move can't wait to hear what david ignatius says about it, about poland sending fighter jets to ukraine. plus, some of the nation's biggest banks are stepping in to rescue first republic bank we're going to go with the extraordinary effort to reassure americans that our banking system is safe. also, the senate takes the first step toward repealing the legal authorization for the war in iraq 20 years later you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. introducing new sweet and savory crepes. for a limited time, buy one, get one free. with five flavors that are delicious any time of day. only from ihop. download the app and earn

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all right. there's new york city. of course, on st. patrick's day, i think i hear they're starting a parade this year in new york on st. patrick's day i don't know it may be the first. let's look at dublin there you go, my friend. there you go 10:40 in dublin, ireland, right now. lemire, i think you and mara and, who else, jen psaki is psaki irish i don't know i'm not good at stuff like that. >> very irish. very irish not psaki, not the name, but the rest of me >> the rest of you. >> look at her >> i know. >> irish looking there. >> my mother is ilene daly, her maiden name. i'm very, very irish. >> that's very, very irish mara, you are, as well your father or mother irish? >> no, my mother is irish.

last name was linton. >> joe, last name is lemire, but that's my father's father. the other three grandparents, o'brien, o'neil, mckeon. st. patrick's day, a big day in the house. >> are we getting barnicle today? >> he can't be booked on st. patrick's day. >> he can't be found today. >> not spoken for. >> we have no idea where he is. >> i know where he is. >> there are actually -- i think there are restraining orders keeping mike barnicle away from every pub in dublin today. he's at home watching baseball reruns let's go to meteorologist bill karins, get a check on the st. patrick's day forecast bill, look at you wearing the green. good. >> i told them to say william o kearns with the forecast i had an "o" in front of my

name, and it was dropped, just so you know. it was okarins. >> what does the forecast look like for new york, the big parade. >> new york and savannah, it'll be dry we had a close call. a storm is moving to the east. there's a lot of clouds and rain, but the rain is going to dry up a cloudy forecast moving in for the afternoon for the east that's good. it'll be mild, too now, the temperatures are going to have one warm day, then it'll get cold this weekend. boston today, 53 degrees "new york new york city is in the mid 50s. jacket optional. savannah, gorgeous in the 60s and 70s. cold air will be back in chicago. sorry about that only 35 degrees. let's get to your parade forecast today is the parade in new york. clouding over, about mid 50s, no problem there. savannah, little windy, but 50s

and 60s. if you've never been in savannah for st. patrick's day, the population quadruples. insane amount of people and partying and everything else boston, parade is sunday cold and windy, 34 to 38 degrees. as far as we're going to deal with this weekend, it's kind of quiet. we've had a stormy weather pattern. we've heard the stories about california, how nuts it's been it'll quiet down not a lot of problems. chilly for the last winter weekend. looks nice for st. pat ddy's da and everybody's plans. >> we need to get you in some more bill okarins >> william okarins it's not going to work. >> we'll get you in once a year. >> we can do billy joe, too. >> i hear heilemann. >> joe, he doesn't stop. >> would you like to add

something to the classroom discussion, mr. heilemann? >> no, i just my karins is sounding like a leprechaun this morning. it's funny i think appealing. bill looks great, sounds great. >> really -- this is awkward can we see a picture of dublin, please, to get us segwayed out of this mess bill, thank you so much. great seeing ya. there you go let's have three seconds of silence, no heilemann. two, one, all right. chinese president xi jinping will visit russia next week. we've learned that xi is expected to hold talks with vladimir putin according to china's foreign ministry the state visit is going to take place from monday to wednesday new this morning, big news, nato member slovakia is announcing its government approved a plan to give ukraine 13 soviet-era mig-29 fighter jets. it comes after poland announced it, too, will provide jets to ukraine, the first member of nato to do so.

poland's president announced the move yesterday and said the four mig-29 jets would arrive in ukraine within the next few days these are not like abrams tanks, we'll give them in a couple years. john kirby acknowledged the decision but added the u.s. decision to send jets to ukraine has not changed, dot, dot, dot, yet. this is something, actually, david ignatius, you can see coming eventually. you knew jets were going to be moving in that direction eventually i just want to focus on poland here's poland, who broke the ice on tanks did that a couple months ago now breaking the ice on jets they're being followed b ed by nato members talk about that, how important poland has been in this nato alliance, in this war. what could we see next what impact will the jets have how big a decision is this

>> joe, poland has been rock solid in supporting ukraine. when you're in poland, as i know you and mika have been, you feel this intenseidentification the polish people have with ukraine's fight. they think this is our fight, too. i have to say, i think the initial impact of the soviet fighters coming from poland and slovenia to ukraine will be most important on morale. this is a tough time for ukraine. they're getting battered on the front lines around bakhmut the level of casualties, the loss of human life, the way in which ukrainians feel that deeply, that's a key part of the war for most of us it's powerful. so this will be a shot in the arm. our allies stand behind us we'll get some air power in terms of actual effects on the battlefield, most of the people i talk to say don't expect radical changes a key issue is whether they will be useful in close air support

in the ukrainian offensive that we all believe is coming in a month or two whether these old russian air jets will be much use still remains to be seen they won't be great in dog fights if they get in fights with more modern russian jets. but i don't see that as being a likely future either for now, i think it's a sign that ukraine's close allies, close neighbors, want to help more, want to help them in this time of enormous difficulty, when, as "the washington post" story said this week, morale in ukraine is a little shaky as people struggle with this very long, bloody war. >> jonathan lemire, though, it's a step by step process we've seen it before leading up to the tanks going there step by step process poland says it's going to give them tanks, push the germans to approve tanks. then the germans say, we'll do it if the americans do it. the americans approve sending

abrams tanks there started to be talk of f-16s. when you hear admiral stavridis coming on the show talking about tanks have to go there next, or general mccaffery saying tanks, well, couple weeks later, month later, suddenly tanks are in the discussion we heard talk about jets a month or so ago. now, we have the mig-29s at some point, i think we're going to be seeing f-16s over there. it's just a step-by step-by-step process here how important does the white house think it is to get the migs >> it is a pattern to this netapoint, there is no to send fighter jets louder voices on capitol hill are pushing the white house to do so. we're seeing the domino effect poland going first, now slovakia there may be other nato nations that do the same in the coming days

there is that anticipation that, at some point, the u.s. will do the same it does take a little while longer that's the pattern they've set up here. but to david's point, they can't get there soon enough. even if they don't have much of an impact in the combat, at least right away, there is a sense, this is a pretty delicate moment in the battle ukrainians really prioritized bakhmut, much to the surprise of, and thfrankly dismay of tho at the pentagon, seeing it as a waste, not being an important city but the ukrainians poured so much resources, manpower into this battle, as have the russians and the wagner group of mercenaries. losing it now would be a devastating blow though secretary of state austin just said a few days ago he didn't think it would change the trajectory of the war, ukrainians feel differently. because they are putting so much into that battle, there are concerns they're training their

ammunition supsupplies, manpowe and top troops havs have been we in that battle it could hinder their counteroffensive which is anticipated. >> the russians continue to be slaughtered every day. while that goes on, we talk about people running for president. talking about this being a territorial dispute. chairman mccaul went to ukraine saying, we need to get you f-16s. other republicans are saying that in the senate and the house. we have bipartisan support for pushing back against vladimir putin's invasion david, i wanted to get your read on president xi and vladimir putin getting together again

maybe xi wants to support putin in the war, or maybe they're talking about how to bring this to an end because xi needs his economy to start moving again. what do you think? >> joe, i'm going to be watching, hard to make a prediction on anything that xi does, but it's interesting there are two things that have been pushed by the chinese first, that he is going to see putin, his no limits partner, as they said back in february, and he is also likely to be talking to volodymyr zelenskyy, the president of ukraine that suggests that the chinese are trying to position themselves as some sort of mediator, interlocutor, that they don't feel comfortable simply in the position of russia's best friend and partner in this war. they know the war is unpopular the chinese seem to have a longer view about their diplomatic role. we just saw this extraordinary

moment where they brokered a deal between iran and saudi arabia. >> i was going to ask you about that, david. i've got to say, that would seem, from a distance, more unlikely than a russia and ukraine resolution the chinese stepped in, sort of elbowed us out of the way, and got in the middle of saudi arabia, iran, and brokered a peace deal that's pretty remarkable. >> joe, they did the kind of thing that the united states traditionally has been very good at, which is paying people off they knew that the u.s. and saudi arabia had been at logger heads. they came in and said, you know, we'll be your peace broker we'll make the deal with iran that america could never help you make they went ahead and did it this last week. saudi arabia and iran will reopen embassies after a break of seven years with chinese help i talked to henry kissinger this

week about this, a man who knows more about this kind of triangular diplomacy than anybody in the world he said, these are the new rules. this is the first face of chinese diplomacy that accompanies their rising economy, their growing military. they're going to have power in this way, too, as a convener and a diplomatic force it's a different world if people want to deal with the iran problem, they're going to have to deal with china as part of that, was another thing kissinger stressed >> yeah. thanks for being with us this morning, david greatly appreciate it. what are you working on today? >> well, today i'm going to try to finish my new novel, which i've been working on the last six months my 12th novel. then i may go play some tennis >> okay. good luck with that. greatly appreciate you being with us. hope you have a great weekend. thanks. coming up, a look at this morning's must-read opinion pages, including the piece in the "la times" asking why we're

praising mike pence for following the law on january 6th. plus, donald trump goes on defense amid developments of two separate investigations against him. we'll have the latest on the former president's legal troubles "morning joe" will be right back lomita feed is 101 years old. when covid hit, we had some challenges. i heard about the payroll tax refund that allowed us to keep the people that have been here taking care of us. learn more at getrefunds.com.

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pentagon released footage of a russian jet forcing down a u.s. drone they both tried to take off from laguardia at the same time >> you just can't do that. welcome back to "morning joe." it is friday, march 17th we have jonathan lemire and john heilemann, mara gay and jen psaki still with us. 75% of our st. patrick's day

panel irish. joining the conversation, pulitzer prize winning columnist at "the washington post," eugene washington senior national political correspondent for "the washington post," ashley parker. thank you for being with us. this morning, we've been talking about the republicans really dark, dystopian view of america that we're especially hearing from donald trump. sort of donald trump's view of america for any days he's not sitting in the oval office the former president said on a video post yesterday, quote, the greatest threat to western civilization is not russia, more than anything else, it is ourselves and some of the horrible usa hating people that represent us ashley, your new reporting is actually on these sort of themes that we're hearing much about from the 2024 republican field let's take a look at this clip >> i am your warrior i am your justice. for those who have been wronged

and betrayed, i am your retribution. i am your retribution. >> we refuse to let our state descend into some type of faucian dystopia, where people's rights were curtailed and livelihoods destroyed. >> a self-loathing has swept our country. it's in the classroom, the board room and the back rooms of government. >> if you were looking for a blueprint to ruin america, you would make sure that our borders are unsafe. >> a blueprint for ruining america? i mean, again, it's so dystopian and so out of line with what's actually happening day in and day out, week in and week out. ashley, they have decided that hating on america, that being negative all the time is going to scale into election victories. what's going on? >> well, they certainly have they're following the lead of

former president trump you played that clip of him at cpac, where he says, "i am your retribution. he is, perhaps, sort of the darkest and most apocalyptic among the group. what has been interesting is these 2024 hopefuls, some declared, some expected to declare, are really, at least in the primary setting, following the former president's lead. you have people like nikki h haley, like senator tim scott, who if you looked at them a couple years ago, their language and sort of their political rise was predicated on a quite optimistic personal story, intertwined with the story of the nation, especially for someone like tim scott to see him in that clip you played, that was his first visit kind of this season to iowa. not so much telling that positive, affirmative personal story, but saying the democrats, the opposition are trying to ruin america, then ticking through a list of the ways they would do so. it's just a divergence of how

the two parties, as you remember, joe, used to fight it used to be about the size of government, policies at the border, how we viewed russia and foreign policy now, you're seeing republicans simply demonize the democrats in a way that people say is apocalyptic. also, quite problematic for the country and for discourse. >> yeah. of course, i guess they're being fed it by a news channel, john heilemann, that says that helicopters that we used in afghanistan are coming to america, and the army is going to kill people who voted for trump. fbi is going to knock down doors of people and kill them, who voted for trump. it is so -- again, this is self-defeating you can look back through american history the laws of gravity still hold for gravity, for law, for

politics just think back. think back to some of the bleakest moments in the 20th century. the great depression, fdr gets sworn in my parents, my grandparents living in rural georgia. my granddad losing his job, four kids, no idea how they're going to survive fdr gives them hope by saying, the only thing we have to fear is fear itself when people literally didn't know where their next diet byte w -- bite was going to come from. 1980, the economy was an absolute wreck we were still in the middle of the iranian hostage crisis ronald reagan running for president, and he said, "i truly believe that america's greatest days lie ahead." you can look 2008, after the absolute mess of iraq and the catastrophe, economic

catastrophe of september 15th. what did barack obama talk about? hope and change. even kennedy talking about "let the word go forth, that the torch has been passed to a new generati generation born born in this century, hope. it's not hard, this is a losing proposition, hating on america saying that we are responsible for the collapse of western civilization i mean, john, again, this is so simple i don't know how they get this so horribly wrong and lose elections year after year. >> yeah. well, i mean, i was thinking as you were going through this, joe, in the first hour of the show, there was a little jesse jackson, keep hope alive vibe coming off you in the first hour now, you have all the hope candidates it's a consistent theme of

winning candidates in both tartar parties. clinton in '92 someone who did an acute analysis of what was wrong with the economy, put forward a view of how to fix it coming out of the '91 recession, it was a dark time he was very much campaigning on a critique of george herbert walker bush, obviously. >> do you remember what his takeaway line was? i still believe in a place called hope. >> you're reading my notes >> hope. go ahead. >> that's where i was going. that's where i was going hope is a consistent thing even donald trump in 2016, for all the grievance he tapped into, you know, make america great again was -- and it was pining for an america that was a whiter america, and, obviously, tapped into deep wells of racial resentment and white grievance at the same time, there was a tinge at least of optimism let's rebuild the country.

as a brand, part of it, there was at least something that was not just dystopia. it was not bad moon rising, america is a threat in the world, the kind of stuff he says now. trump has become so consumed in his own sense of grievance over what he believes happened to him in 2020, it's all he talks about now. he is a johnny one note. with ron desantis, who is embracing -- who thinks he's the only trump competitor who has a chance in the field, you have desantis basically saying, i have to protect my trump flank it's not the right flank or conservatives. it's, i have to not let donald trump -- get distance between us on the maga front. you have the two leading republican candidates now who both sound like, you know, they're the authors of a couple of dystopian sci-fi novels it's all they talk about, how terrible everything is, how terrible the country is, how terrible these phantom things that they conjure out of almost nothing to kind of animate the

fears, almost entirely, of that part of the republican base that's animated by those things. i will say, there is a market for it there clearly is a market for it in the republican party today. >> sure. >> there's also, i believe, and i think you and i will agree about this, there is also a silent majority within the republican party, i would say, who are desperately hoping that someone can articulate a more optimistic, more positive, more pragmatic, more forward-looking vision of what the republican party could be in the future no one has come forward and taken that mantle. if it is going to be trump and desantis just being grievance, grievance, grievance, dystopia, dystopia, rage, rage, that leaves a big opening for someone to come in and say, i'm going to be more like reagan, like bush, like clinton, obama, and take the mantle to donald trump we'll see if that happens. >> we'll see if it happens but this is a cottage industry you're right, it works if you have a podcast it works if you've got a cable

news show. it works if you only have to reach a certain number of people to be a big success in your field. but it doesn't scale it doesn't win elections it's why republicans don't win elections. republicans have now as their front runner, not only a guy who will probably be indicted before his campaign even gets moving, but you have a guy who has called for the termination of the united states constitution, his words. his words. he called for the termination of the united states constitution he's now said that the greatest threat to western civilization is not china, is not north korea, is not iran, is not russia, but it's democrats that are running the united states. >> yeah. >> that's about as far away as you can get from ronald reagan and fdr's optimism as you can

get. >> it sure is. you know, let's talk for a minute about the market out there for this sort of swell i mean, this is donald trump's new brand, i guess it's not make america great again. it's america is going to hell. yes, it is all about this dystopia, and it is very dark and very ugly. he believes, clearly, that there's -- that's the market that's what the market wants to hear all these other candidates don't want to be outflanked by trump on that front. my question is, do they also really believe that there are that many republicans -- because they're playing to the republican base now -- who want to hear this, who believe this, who are so -- who have so lost

faith in this country that they're eating this stuff up, they really believe this stuff that trump is saying so they have to say it, too? are they doing it tactically now in hopes of getting the nomination, then they would pivot to a more optimistic vision if they reach the general election, or try to do so? or do they think this is where a big chunk of the country is? i'm sure it's not half the country or half the country plus one. this does not win a general election but does this win a republican primary, and what does that say about where what we used to call the republican party is now? it's nothing like the party of ronald reagan. it's nothing like the party of the bushes it's nothing like any republican

party we have known in our lifetimes. >> one republican who is a little less fixated on the darkness and trying to embrace the mantle of reagan and create a little daylight with donald trump is former vice president mike pence in an interview yesterday on fox business, pence was asked about his comments from this past weekend's annual gridiron dinner in washington. pence said there, quote, history will hold trump accountable for the january 6th attack on the capitol. let's look at what he said yesterday. >> this is the toughest statement you have made. any particular reason why you made it last saturday? any particular thing on your mind >> well, larry, i've read that it's the toughest statement i've made, but it is essentially what i said in my book, what i have been saying around the country the last year and a half you know me well i am a look out the windshield guy, not a rear-view mirror guy. frankly, while the president and

i parted amicably at the end of the administration, after that tragic day in january, ever since he returned to the rhetoric he was using leading up to january 6th, i've been speaking out i had no right to overturn the election no vice president in american mystery h history has ever assert thad right. >> do you think former president trump incited violence or incited an insurrection? >> well, look, there was a riot at the capitol that day, and there are many causes. i do think that the president's reckless words that day endangered all of us that were at the capitol when i say my family, you know, my wife and my daughter were with me all the way until 4:00 in the morning the following day. thanks to law enforcement, we quelled the riot we were able to reconvene the congress the very same day and complete our work under the constitution of the united

states i'll let history be the judge of those matters, and the american people can each have their own opinions. >> i mean, you know, i actually had heard, jonathan lemire, that he didn't go far enough and that he was -- i don't know what they wanted him to do, get a picture of donald trump and tear it in half he pretty much covered what he said before. he didn't set trump on fire there, but he did say -- i mean, he correctly said, "i said it in my book, i said it there, he endangered my family's life. i'm sure there's some things in there we can find where he could have been more forceful, but that certainly is as far as i've heard anybody go that's running for president in the republican party this year. >> he said there were many causes of the violence of january 6th opposed to just putting it on trump, but you're right, he went further than any potential candidate has done in condemning what trump did to

fuel the violence on january 6th. we should read from jonah goldberg,conservative columnist, with a new piece for the "los angeles times." it reads, "following the law on january 6th was the least pence could do why are we praising him? he writes in part this, while i am glad and grateful for what mike pence did, some of the praise feels excessive if all your friends decide to rob a bank but you refuse to go along, that's great. but there's no heroism in choosing not to rob a bank after all, not all painful choices are necessarily hard choices. that's what makes his show of anger at trump now so discomfiting he says history will hold donald trump accountable for the events of january 6th i am confident he's right. but it will take longer for that to happen because pence has little interest in helping history reach its conclusion shouldn't someone running for president be able to tell the truth and vent his anger without so much hemming and hawing and

political calculation? mara, we have the other vantage point there. pence has certainly received some praise for what he said last weekend we should note, though, and jonah is getting to this point, he did so off camera, and he does so while still refusing to cooperate with any of the investigations into january 6th or what donald trump did that day. >> yeah. it's hard to see this as fully coming clean it's really not encouraging when we're looking at donald trump running for president again, potentially being indicted you know, he can't do -- if he did commit any crimes, it's hard to do that as president on your own. so we really want to have some faith in this democracy. the democracy is going to rely on individuals like former vice president mike pence doing the right thing. i think, you know, hopefully americans of both parties can see a little bit more from him, a lot more

i mean, it's about personal integrity. it's about the integrity of the democracy. we saw how close we came on january 6th. really how close to the brink we came it was only the actions of individual officers, of people like mike pence, and, of course, of former speaker nancy pelosi and others, who really rescued and saved the day. we need to see more. i would say it's not good enough >> you know, jen psaki, or ashley parker, it's fascinating. it's fascinating how history looks back on massive events i've read, like old guys like me, read a lot of books about winston churchill. one consistency throughout churchill was one mistake after another mistake after another mistake, his best friends saying when churchill is right, he is wonderful. when he is wrong, my god

i think about, when people look back at this era, i don't think they're going to be looking at march 17th, 2023 i think they're going to look back at january 6th, 2021. see what decisions were made on that day by that measure, it's crazy, history is going to record that mike pence was the guy that stood in the gap with an assist -- here's a footnote -- from dan quell who said to him, "you can't do that." it's remarkable how history calls on people when it's time to do things but you've studied the republican party, this republican party so well chances are good, ashley, that's not going to do him favors in iowa and new hampshire, is it? >> well, there's two things. the bet the pence campaign, once it launches, is making is that this is a pivotal, seminal

moment for him, where people -- not just potentially some democrats, moderates -- but more moderates in the republican party will say they appreciate mike pence holding the line, doing the right thing, and, as he states, as somebody also, again, trying to position himself as, not the successor but the return to reagan republicanism, following the constitution the challenge he has is that is a very fine line to thread, as you saw in that op-ed. there will also if a lot of people who will say, doing that, you know, doing this basic thing of following the constitution and not falsely overturning an election that trump did not win, that you did not have the authority to do is just that, it's the very bare minimum but it is a huge moment, as you say, in history. it is a huge moment where mike pence, while a mob of pro-trump supporters were chanting to hang

the vice president, while there were nooses out on the national mall, did make what, at that time, though it may have seemed in retrospect an obvious decision, a clear constitutional decision, what for many people, especially people who served former president trump, could have been a very difficult decision he made it. >> i just have to add in here, because i was there at the gridiron what he said, he got a round of applause, which was deserved but let's remember on the police k police -- political landscape for pence, he probably wouldn't have been re-elected as governor of indiana he was plucked from potential political obscurity. he wasn't a skyrocketing political leader at the time when he came into the trump administration now, since then, while he did make those comments, he did write it in his book how he talks about this strikes me as somebody observing this moment in history, not as somebody who played a pivotal

role in this moment in history some good, some, i think, not as good that's the piece about it that i think is a little bit of a reflection of him. he's trying to walk this tight wire really, he could choose to parti participate. he could have chosen to participate with the january 6th committee. he could choose to share more about what he knew he could speak out about it more that is courage. i'm not sure that he deserves endless lless applause for speag about it at the gridiron >> jen psaki and jonah goldberg, they agree ashley parker and mara gay, thank you, as well greatly appreciate it. still ahead on "morning joe," another big bank faces a crisis of confidence we'll be talking about whether we have learned anything since 2008 plus, we're going to talk about the significance of the senate advancing legislation that would repeal the legal

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beautiful shot of the white house at 7:25 a.m. on this st. patrick's day. the occupant of the white house cares deeply about st. patrick's day. someone who called that building home, at least professionally for a while, jen psaki, you have a brand-new project. we, of course, are excited that your new show, "inside with jen psaki," debuts this sunday at 12:00 p.m. eastern earlier this week, we saw a clip from the program with you riding the subway here in new york city with mayor eric adams. there you guys are we also know you have michigan governor gretchen whitmer joining you on sunday. tell us more

what will we see with eyour premiere congratulations. >> thank you i'm so excited i spent with day with gretchen whitmer yesterday. for all the dysfunction in washington, they're actually doing a lot in michigan. they're about to get a package of gun legislation through we talked about that, abortion rights, her own future aspirations. you'll have to tune in on sunday she had an interesting thoughts, jonathan, and sobering, i'll say, about trump's hold on the republican party in michigan so i think we're going to play a clip of that >> so there's a little bit going on in presidential politicians right now. >> i've heard. >> yes, of course. michigan is always a state that you will get lots of visits from, from many, many presidential candidates. looking at the field and just talking to people in michigan, republicans in michigan, are they tired of donald trump, or are they still having the same kind of support for him they had in 2016 or 2020? >> what's interesting, in michigan, republican party politicians, for a long tomb, has been controlled by the devos

family, the betty devos family, the whole world knows who she is. >> i've heard of her. >> in the last round when they were nominated the attorney general secretary of state, devos candidates lost to the trump candidates we now have a republican chair here in michigan -- >> chrikristina karamo. >> who is as trumpian, i think, as it gets and so while i think that the traditional republicans maybe don't feel at home in the party, that kind of leadership, it's still very much a trump-controlled party here in michigan >> jen, congratulations on the show can't wait to watch it >> thank you noon on sunday >> we're all going to be tuned in here's my question for you about gretchen whitmer you got to spend some time with her. her victory last year, people forget how much doubt there was about her being able to win

re-election. then she wins. she doesn't just win, wins going away, easy victory for her, capitalizing on dobbs and other things this may be the first time you spent a lot of time with her face-to-face does she look like she's spent time with other young, rising stars in the democratic party? is she a young, national star in the making in the democratic field? not 2024 but beyond? >> yes i mean, i've spent a little bit of time in democratic politics governor gretchen whitmer is young, and she is someone -- in our conversation, i asked her a lot about the threats that she has had against her. there was a kidnapping plot back in 2020. there are a number of threats against other prominent women and jewish elected officials in michigan i asked her how she thinks about that does that sit with her as she's pushing forward gun reform measures -- which, by the way, militia who try to target these women don't like she's pushing forward on protection of lgbtq rights she is fearless, and that's what

you have to be she has the michigan legislature, first time in 40 years, and she has been pushing and pushing and pushing to get things done. in a lot of ways, what she's doing, other governors, too, it's amodel of how you have to be fearless in these moments just push to get things done, push things through the legislature, make change happen. that's exactly what she's doing in michigan. yes, i think she'll be around a while, would be my prediction. >> john, let me ask you that question about her political prospects. i have to say, among democrats, she's more of the more beloved figure, even though militias and people on the far right may have issues with her and try to kidnap her and kill her. among the democratic base, she is beloved wherever i go, i hear people talking about her. curious, you travel around with "the circus. do you hear the same thing >> yeah, and it's not just the democratic base, joe i think people looked at the way

those three women in michigan, led by gretchen whitner, also the secretary of state and attorney general, in what is a battleground state, provided a template for how democrats across the board performed well in the midterms in 2022. embraced two big issues, one, abortion rights, the other, voting rights. not just -- didn't just win, but won convincingly, in a state that people worried that could have all gone republican, could have gone to election denier they won and won easily. you know, gretchen whitmer was one of the people joe biden looked to be a running mate in 2020 she's been a figure on the rise in national democratic politics for some time now. look, one of the things we all recognized, and i know jen psaki will agree with me about this, you know, the democratic party is a party built on female votes, built on a lot of energy around issues that matter a lot to women

yet, still the democratic party has not yet had a presidential nominee, let alone a president who is a woman the time is coming where there is going to be -- again, if joe biden maybe will be unchallenged in 2024 and will be the democratic nominee, if it plays out the way we think it'll be. but pretty soon, the democratic party is going to embrace women who will be dominatie ing the discussion in 2028 and beyond. i don't know many democrats who don't think gretchen whitmer will be among the women in the conversation. >> jeagene robinson, you look at three states that if democrats win, they win the white house. wisconsin wisconsin, michigan and pennsylvania if you're looking for rising stars in the democratic party, people you should bet are going to be on a national ticket sometime soon, you look at the governors of michigan and the governors of pennsylvania. you've got two of the fastest rising stars and two of the most

critical states. if you figure out a ticket that has a governor of pennsylvania and governor of michigan on it, going to be hard for republicans to break through that. >> yeah, that's a good point, joe. i will remind heilemann that there was hillary clinton as a democratic presidential nominee. >> thank you for that. you're right, gene sorry about that i forgot she did win the nomination we still haven't had a female president. >> came pretty close to being president. >> yeah, yeah. good point. >> but that aside, you know, i think you make a very good point about women being such an important, the crucial, important constituency for the democratic party gretchen whitmer is in an interesting position i see her as kind of, you know, a cognate. obviously with completely different views to ron desantis in florida she won, not just won the

governorship, but she hamza has majorities in both state legislature. she's moving forward on all kinds of progressive, sensible legislation, and so it'll be really interesting to see what kind of success she can have in the next few years i just see her star rising further and further because, in part, the michigan republican party has gone completely off the cliff. that's a contrast that she's going to be able to take advantage of. >> all right "inside with jen psaki" premieres this sunday at noon. big guests great host and we just can't wait for the debut. jen, thank you so much coming up on "morning joe" -- >> so, look, all i want to do is this i just want to find 11,780

votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state >> let me tell you something, that is a perfect phone call that is a perfect phone call if you're a prosecutor in the state of georgia the infamous phone call between donald trump and georgia's secretary of state following the 2020 election. you've heard that one. now, we're learning there's another phone call that donald trump made to try to reverse the results. that new reporting ahead when "morning joe" returns. ooh, we're firing up the chewy app. can't say no to these prices! hmm, clumping litter? resounding yes! salmon paté? love that for me! essentials? check! ooh, we have enough to splurge on catnip toys! we did it, i feel so accomplished.

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♪ welcome back to "morning joe. we've been teaching john heilemann recent history of the united states of america's political system since, well,

since 2007 so you've got the 2016 matchup all fixed up i mean, i realize st. patrick's day started very early for you, john. >> everybody else is doing their irish thing, the green ties and green dresses and stuff. i have not a drop of irish blood, so i compensated by being extremely drunk by 7:30. i have ptsd, i forgot about 2016 hillary clinton, i know you were the nominee. i swear to god i was just thinking there hasn't been a democratic woman or any other woman president. anyway, apologies. >> sometimes you just blank, man. >> i know. >> you blank out. >> my brain is a sieve at this point, joe. >> exactly let's move on. we're going to walk john through this carefully and lovingly. a group of the nation's biggest banks are coming to the rescue of first republic bank nbc news business reporter brian

cheung has the details >> reporter: just days after two banks suddenly collapsed, signs and cracks emerged at san francisco based first republic the bank was bleeding funds as worried customers rushed to pull their money out. in an unprecedented move, 11 of the nation's largest banks decided to pump funds in, saying the $30 billion rescue plan, quote, reflects their confidence in first republic and in banks of all sizes earlier, the treasury secretary janet yellen delivering a clear message on capitol hill. the country's banking system is sound. >> americans can feel confident that their deposits will be there when they need them. >> reporter: a source familiar with the matter telling nbc news, yellen was behind the move to shore up first republic pitching the idea to jpmorgan chase ceo jamie dimon, who rallied the other banks. stock markets, which have been on a roller coaster ride all week, stabilized thursday after the they nannouncement

this chef, a customer of first republic, says they're able to breathe a sigh of relief. >> nobody ever wants to hear about any bank having trouble. >> reporter: in addition to business accounts at the bank, he says he has his personal savings account and a mortgage at first republic, too he did not pull his money from the bank, hoping first republic could figure it out. >> if you want the business to be around, you have to be a patron of the business. >> reporter: former federal deposit corporate chair sheila bare says fdic insurance covers $250,000 per depositor at most banks. her fmessage, don't worry. >> if everyone wants money out at once, they'll force an otherwise healthy bank to close. >> let's bring in author and msnbc political analysis, adam giridharadas "be persuaders," the fight for hearts, minds and democracy. >> thank you for having me. >> seems to me there are a lot

of people who preach the glories of capitalism to single moms and working class americans, not so much to bankers. because when we get in these situations, we always socialize losses but privatize gains >> we do i think that's something that we have learned since 2008 as a country. i think a lot of ordinary people got educated about that. this time around, there was a lot more demands to not do a bailout. they didn't do a traditional bailout, but aid organized by the government will be funded by an assessment on banks, which the american people will still pay for. they're upholding and protecting silicon valley bank. it is ironic that, you know, these very big venture capitalists of silicon valley, who are the ones who pulled their money out in panic, a

coordinated panic to cause the bank run, are this group of people who, as you know, advocated against government, advocated against common institutions for decades now used their clout through building these giant corporations to belittle the idea of government, to skirt regulation, as you know. so then when they have a run on their bank that they caused themselves, they want, you know, nurses and truck drivers and teachers to help pay to backstop their multi-billion dollar fortunes it is embarrassing i hope some of them will now, having gotten help from all of us, will come forward and advocate for help for us maybe they're willing to advocate on student debt maybe they're willing to advocate on health care. maybe they're had a change of heart. >> yeah, no. >> realizing government is good, actually >> yeah, nope, nope, i doubt that's going to happen i mean, we've seen this for decades.

you've got people who are libertarians until there is a bank run, and then, suddenly, they want the federal government to jump in with both feet. somebody said the other day, just as there are no atheists in fox holes, there are no libertarians in the banking sector or you can say in silicon valley, once there is a run on the bank gene, let's talk about the banks for a second we had to help them out. if we didn't help them out, this week would have been a week we look back on probably much like september 15th, 2008 >> yup. >> but in your latest op-ed, you nail it, all right if banks want bailouts, if they want bailouts, they want rescue plans, they have to also accept regulations. what happens is, they fight regulations tooth and nail, as silicon valley bank did, the bank blows up, and, suddenly,

they want the feds to come in and rescue them. >> exactly that's exactly right and the ceo of silicon valley bank, greg becker, was among those who argued for the weakening of the dodd/frank rules, which would have necessitated annual stress tests of his bank. but he got the limit raised. they got the limit raised so that his bank would not have to undergo such testing if i had, maybe the problems would have been found. i'm so glad that we have you on this morning i was writing about this, and my lead was, what is the definition of a socialist a libertarian tech who had money in silicon valley bank my thinking was partly

crystallized by a tweet that you wrote recently, kind of pointing that out that, gee, all of a sudden, all these anti-government types understand what government is for and what government can do to help people who are being buffeted by forces beyond their control. talk about that for a while, and accept my apology for the theft. >> i love that i'm glad that there's still redemption happening on twitter and people can still get ideas from that otherwise swamp. look, i think it is interesting that they want the bailout but when you have this issue of silicon volalley toxifying everything else in life, they don't want the government. there's research that tiktok, instagram, apps are destroying mental health for adolescents,

particularly for teenage girls in this country. there is a three-alarm fire of suicide, eating disorders, other things happening, caused by these kind of unregulated platforms, right there, they don't want government stepping in, right? when it comes to airbnb and driving up housing costs across this country, they have hired a lot of ex-government people to lobby against the government doing anything to rein them in when uber and lyft were asked by employees, by drivers who wanted to be employees, wanted a little more security in this economy, understandably, they pushed back saying, you know, they're just contractors. we don't know them push back against regulation silicon valley needs to decide, is it living in a libertarian paradise on an island outside the law, or do we want to be part of the united states of america? in which case, if you want to avail of the securities and exchange commission, of regulation of finances, of our amazing courts of law that

enforce your ip and all these other things, you need to be there for people when we want to regulate you, when we want to protect our common good against your profit motive. >> john heilemann, let's talk about the politics of this we know over the last weekend president biden, of course, felt like the decision was made to step in with the banks, but he sort of expressed reluctance privately, that this was silicon valley bank, crypto investors, tech gurus he was leery of that he remembers being obama's vice president at the time, the fallout from what we saw in 2008 and 2009 what backlash, what sort of reaction might we get here how will this shape the campaign ahead? >> very hard to say. i'll say the other thing he remembers, i think joe biden does as anybody who watched the last couple cycles in the presidential politics play out, in addition to the profound polarization we have, the other big force in our politics has been populism.

you've seen the rise of the sanders forces, which is whether bernie sanders never got the democratic nomination, but there's millions of democrats out there who have been inright off-ness for a decade now. it's an incredibly powerful force in the democrat uk ic pary if you're joe biden, think you'll be unchallenged for the democratic nomination, you have to harness the energy to be able to win re-election being seen as the guy who is on the side of bank bailouts, particularly bank bailouts related to the crypto sector and the guys in silicon valley, those rich dudes out there, is not the thing that animates people who are -- who, rightly, make a lot of the points or feel, not as arc titillated, but have a sense the game is rigged and there's no posse to play with casino money and you'll eventual li get boiled out -- bailed out in you

make contributions to the city that's not a great path for politicians in 2024. we know on the right side, donald trump or whoever the republican nominee is, they'll try to tap into the right side of the populous impulses, they do it in a consistent way and ideologically inconsistent way, but it's there and shapes the landscape. i think biden's stomach is like do i want to say -- would a banking collapse help us no is the responsible thing to do is to keep that from happening yes. are the politics dicey yes, they're dicey it will be interesting to see how things play out and how worse things can get in the financial sector you look at the hinky politics and doing the right thing. >> it's a great point. i think the last point you made is the most important, which is

because of the populous uprising -- not just sanders, but trump was a different kind of populous, because it's so broad-based, there's a different sense in the culture some on the wleft, some on the right. when things like east palestine happen or when things like this bank run happen, if democrats don't quickly claim that energy and stand with that energy, they create this weird backally for the right to insincerely stand with east palestine or insincerely stand with bailouts. it's always insincere from my point of view, however, it's an alley. it very much can become an ally. you see hawley flirting with that lane. had a great piece in "politico"

today talking about the biden unannounced re-election campaign kind of pivoting to the center i think when you do that, you risk still not winning over those people who always have called you a communist and are still going to call you a communist in the moderate or center right, but really depressing the hell out of that incredible populist uprising that has been animating american politics in recent years. >> again, you look on the republican side of it. donald trump, populist sorry. this is a guy who passed away billionaires in the form of tax cuts than any president in u.s. history. you look at the deregulation again, who does that impact? that impacts working-class americans and workers. it's funny and democrats should be able to call it out more effectively thank you very much for being

with us always. coming up, taylor swift fans are waking up to something exciting this morning after the pop superstar released four new songs ahead of her highly anticipated tour, a tour that collapsed ticketmaster and an investigation into the ticket company. we'll give you a look ahead with a concert that's expected to rival thsue per bowl "morning joe" will be right back ..i'm over 45. ♪ ♪ i realize i'm no spring chicken. ♪ ♪ i know what's right for me. ♪ ♪ i've got a plan to which i'm sticking. ♪ ♪ my doc wrote me the script. ♪ ♪ box came by mail. ♪ ♪ showed up on friday. ♪ ♪ i screened with cologuard and did it my way! ♪ cologuard is a one-of-a kind way to screen for colon cancer that's effective and non-invasive. it's for people 45 plus at average risk, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider for cologuard. ♪ (group) i did it my way! ♪

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having a great safe st. patrick's day. taylor swift's fans sure are her tour kicks off tonight in arizona. you're going to remember it was a nightmare for fans to get presale tickets for that tour. it prompted lawmakers to investigate ticketmaster and have really embarrassing hearings where old dudes all quoted their favorite lines from taylor swift songs come on, don't do that don't do that. anyway, joining us now outside the stadium in glendale is nbc news correspondent emilie ikeda. this is big. this event is going to be as big as a super bowl. tell us more. >> reporter: okay, joe this is where i'm going to have correct you. i'm not in glendale. it's swift city. officials officially named glendale swift city in honor of the megastar kicking off her

first tour in five years, as if we didn't already know how influential this artist is, one of the most influential artists of the era this morning, swifties are ready to descend on the desert as taylor swift kicks off the eras tour at state farm stadium tonight. overnight swift treated fans with a midnight debut of four unreleased songs while the details have stayed under wraps, swift showed a clean look sporting crystalized nails and sporting a crystalized guitar the show will mark swift's long-awaited return to touring after a five-year hiatus taylor's top fans are having trouble calming down. >> what is it like to actually see the open to her tour

>> crazy. >> she's literally been counting down the days, the minutes, the hours. >> reporter: officials say tourism with swift's back-to-back shows this weekend is on track to rival that of the super bowl even local businesses are getting swept up in the swift sensation, including one restaurant that's mixing up swift-inspired cocktails it all comes after that ticketmaster meltdown that left furious fans stuck in online cues without tiggers that prompted demands and cyber attacks. despite the debacle, eager swifties seemed ready to shake off the bad blood. >> i'm so excited to sigh her, see her perform, and see what she does with all ten eras snore excited for something than anyone else in my entire life. >> reporter: there are musical eras from her past and present

those lucky enough to get their hands on tickets are ready show show up in style on tiktok the hashtag has had more views while there's been no official word on run time or a set list, swift is known to bring out fellow artists in her shows. >> what i'm battling in this day and age, every person in the audience could know what costume i'm going to wear and what my playlists are, so i decided to bring special guests out. >> reporter: swifty fans can be promised their best. >> reporter: i'm trying my hardest not to sing along, but is there a way you can still get your hands on a ticket

i'm watching i didn't score a ticket in the presale. ticket prices have actually declined by about 35% since the first week of ticket sales if you're on the hunt, make sure you're refreshing the secondary sites. here's hoping that we can find a ticket. >> what's your favorite taylor album? >> reporter: you're putting me in a large position because we're looking at a large body of work some-her classics in the beginning -- i'm all over the place. i could pick anyone. >> okay. i'm going to go out on the line. heilemann, i'm going to ask you too. i'm a 1989 guy it's hard to beat the lyrics of old school, the love story emilie, thank you so much. good luck getting tickets tonight good luck. it's going to be tough, but we

appreciate it. heilemann, are you -- you're able to recognize the taylor swift belongs in the pantheon of greats, right? >> oh, god, yeah taylor swift will be thought of 20 years from now. she's be like joani mitchell. she's one of the greatest songwriters in this or any era you can't be serious about music and not recognize her genius "folklore" and "every more" were popular. i don't think she's made a bad album in her entire career what a commercial phenomenon going around, she's selling out multiple nights at stadiums on this tour. not just one night she's like the rolling stones back in the a late '70s or early

'80s where they'd come to the coliseum and sell out four nights in a row. it's a huge draw worldwide and an incredible artist madonna is another reasonable analogue she's like at that level we're looking at her tour itinerary. it's the biggest football stadiums in the country, capping off with five knights at sofi stadium in los angeles i know you even been there 70,000, 80,000 venue she's got five nights in argue s that's amazing. >> that's rolling stones level, michael jackson level. absolutely mammoth. we're going to dig into a new poll with donald trump and ron desantis. march madness barely underway and these two busted

after these major upsets. >> the cavaliers are playing the four guards. >> gone! >> 2.4 they added a little bit of time. >> one-possession game arizona needs three to send this thing to overtime. a quick two if you can 15 seconds left. ramy with the one ball. >> that's not it. >> air ball. >> he tries to keep it alive no good. >> arizona will not let go. and the tigers of princeton wow

their way into round two. >> how many of you had number 15 princeton over second ceded arizona. number 13, furman. furman knocking off uva. and jonathan lemire, fortunately for me i had the whole thing with uva beating arizona how am i doing how am i doing do i have a chance i actually talked to some people that i knee at uva and arizona in the final four. ouch, that hurts >> that bracket is ohhally busted president biden picked them to win the whole thing. this is why march madness is so great. it matters less than it used to, but for this month it owns the games. my brother is a uva grad, so

he's in a state of mourning, and then there's princeton. >> they do this all the time who's coughing >> jeff, let's see who could be trying to but in. go heilemann go heilemann. >> go cats first round victory. >> i love it going all the way, northwestern is. >> proud alum, joe we're going to plow through in the scope round, no worry. >> i don't follow it too closely during the season. i'm too busy looking at the red sox from the off-season.

we have the white board and have to see how the 38-year-olds are doing. we have to look to see if there's any cataract problems with the new red sox signings. i was told now -- i didn't know quite how good arizona was now with his loss and they're out, alabama is favored against the field, that they were seen as that much of an obstacle. of being able to move forward. it's crazy, but not as crazy as the new york newspapers trying to highlight the metsiest thing that's ever happened, but it's close. tell us about it. >> let's reset the stage from yesterday. the best reliever in the league last year yesterday during the baseball classic, the night

before, while celebrating -- mind you, not while pitchinging, but while celebrating a win was jumping up and down with his teammates, landed awkwardly, suffered a major leg injury. he had to be we chaired ant the feet the other night he's out for the season. he will not celebrate a snd pl a single game because he celebrated and injured his knee. he came in with the trumpets blaring. and then "the sound of silence" and mr. mets is weeping with a giant tear rolling down his baseball head. mets fans, this is a pretty

tortured franchise, joe f a long time they have come to expect things that have gone wrong there's a "family guy" clip where it says to a shot of a corrode opening season, season over that's where the mets feel like i it's over. let's bring in mara gay. if you want to talk baung, the floor is open to you if. >> do you feel out of bracket? >> oh, no. i'm here to on serve i'm a michigan fan in every way. i'll watch the gymnasticse,

football. >> michigan gymnastics, is that a thing? >> of course, of course. >> when i fill out march madness we always call each other. for the gymnastics finals, we fill out the brackets. >> you guys are way down the rabbit hole. >> are you celebrating green >> i am. i'm irish. let's bring in darchltd also former white house press secretary and nbc host jim

ca celebrates i forget the green tie. >> mara, david, and i will be filling out our bracket over here with no knowledge of bann basketball and we're gist as likely to win. >> i know, i know. let's start with a new poll that came out a few moments ocean florida 2024 hypothetical gop primary, donald trump is leading ron desantis, 47% to 44% you have these themes take off, these narratives just break out and the narrative is, oh, donald trump is way ahead of desantis and it's not being close we're seeing some polls that show that. this ipsos poll is close this is not a fait accompli.

this could be a long hard battle if he were to step in. >> the classic cliche, it's a little arly. desantis is not even in the ways ain some ways i defer the you on think. if i'm donald trump and i spent a t last new fonts denigrating ron desantis claiming he would vmd bun if and he wasn't that enough he's trying to find any angle in on why tiny d, meatball ron, desantis, santa moanous, take your pick, am i in a typical tie

with ruin ron desantis for the heart and mans of niece edds state. p. >> you would like to see a little moredy stance between him and ruin die san tns. >> no doubt about this the other polls when they get on the trail, you look at barack obama in 2000 p, 28. the bay. the runaway prohibitive fafrmgs we were showing in our first year on joining joel were hillary clinton and rudy julian nay. ofts that's the erace i do know this we've been asking what will it take for republicans to turn

against donald trump i've heard more negative comments about donald trump when he attacks lon tea san it the or when he tries to gets he attorney jen togeneral and put them on barges off of gitmo and when he repeated one impeachable offense after the other. when he attacks ron desantis, there is political cause for that since he was the only pun to have a good night in 2022. they say up this as a weapons ir they don't like at this like this is a lindy graham or rand

paul. >> this is a two-person race all the anti-trooper force have rp they have faithful coverage on knock news therefore they don't want too see these attacks. we saw desantis win in a land landslide, get written in december donald trump is a tilatan there. when we get to know desantis more, will they like him more or

less there have been questions about his retail skills we know what he does, works in florida. what we don't know yet is if it ee going to with r wofr -- everyone else. he might be with a base of republicans who wants to win and he's sick of trump that doesn't mean he's going to be able too connect with voters in the same way trump did. we'll find out when we get a road show going to we'll find out the other awkward element here is niefr down south tall we nope thrngs are team people who won't hike to see that

that's another factor. you don't know how voters are thinking about that consciously or not this is why it's northwesterly the game and why we're going to have to wait and sigh. >> we've got other stories to move onto. i mentioned marco rubio's name it reminds me of what the big story was this week, not just for the united states, or republicans politically in this little battle but now the united states it said that the invasion of ukraine was nothing more than a territorial dispute, echoing the kremlin's own language and that it wasn't in the u.s.'s interest to stop invading countries in

europe that's first of all deeply troubling and smp something that was heard in capitals across the world, but also i thought it important that we heard from marco rubio we heard from lindsey graham we heard from john corman and john thune and other republicans have been saying and that is that this is insanity, lynzee graham especially outspoken against it, saying, this is nevern nevel chamberlin said. anyone who thinks it won't be translated into a green light for china going into taiwan doesn't understand geo politics. >> this was the firstbig miss

take desantis has made and it's interesting he's gotten called on iterate pape r way they spoke out loudly. when desantis made these comments about ukraine, bam, very strong response i think that was significant i'm be encouraged if i was ukrainians that there was a broader split in the republican party for sticking with it certainly the people watching this race most carefully right now, the russians. if we just last it out, if we get to a republican president after the 2024 elections, is this over, do we get a pass? if ron desantis wins, yeah, or donald trump wins, you get a pass i think it was a big week.

the pushback was important i'd sure like to hear those people push back on other things that they were accused of saying, that were harm tofl the party. this is out. >> positions are the same, so they apply to both president trump speaking to this, in his words, stop world war 3. he said end the war in ukraine, and here's one of his points. >> finally we have to finish the process we began under my administration of fundamentally lee valuating nato's pufrps and nato's mission a foreign policy establishment keeps trying to put the world into conflict with a nuclear armed basis with the greatest threat but the greatest threat to western civilization today is not russia

it's probably more than anything else and those who represent us. it's the borders, the failure to police our own cities, it's the destruction of the rule of law from within, it's the collapse of the nuclear family, and fertility rates like nobody can believe is happening it's the marxists who would have us become the -- >> blah, blah, blah. you know what's boring to me what's boring to me is the hatred for america, the hatred from america you heard hatred spewing from donald trump's mouth he talked about hating the united states, that the american dream was dead tell that to the migrants, immigrants risking their lives

to come to the united states of america. what do they believe in? talk to the americans who get here they talk about the american dream. it's all over the world. all over the word. jen psaki, it's crazy. donald trump hates america, the united states, the country as fox anchors used to remind us. this country has felled and freed more people than any other planet in the history of the world. roger was right on that one. we have and we continue to we won world war 1 we won world war ii with the help of allies

look what we're doing helping ukraine push back against war crimes daily, and yet all donald trump does, all other people do, they bash the united states of america. they attack the u.s. force, they hate america by their own words, and if they hate it so much, why don't they move to russia? russia will take them. they've taken steven segal they'll take donald trump. they hate us they hate america, so why are they still here? >> you heard it here first, they're heading to russia. look, it's trump, it deese

desantis, sarah huckabee sanders. if you listen to the rhetoric from the most powerful voices in the republican right wing of the party, they're painting the country and painting the future as this dark depress irv ominous dystopia, right, that everything is terrible, all things are terrible, all things are dark. ron desantis calls it a woketocracy. i don't know what that means, but i feel like i needed to use that that's what people are le we're a work in progress, but people want solutions. they want something that's going to make their life better. it's a race to dystopia on the right and i also don't think the right strategy to win. >> it's also just a lie.

how crazy. donald trump says the american dream is dead. then he loses and suddenly america is this horrible place again. you know, dave ignacius, you've been across the world. you've seen the good america does we've made mistakes. we talk about it here. and we are struggling toward becoming a more perfect union every day. at the same time, you know, abraham lincoln said america was the laugh best hope for a dying world. ronald reagan said tamerica is a city sitting on a hill shining around the world go around the word hesays instead of a city sitting on the line sharply. he says america is the greatest

threat to american civilization. those are words taken straight out of the mouth of orban. >> i absolutely agree that trump's criticism of the united states is misplaced and can be very harmful to us i will say the biggest threat to our future in my judgment does not lie outside our borders. it lies in america unless we can make our democracy better, get our economy going relia reliably, strongly, unless we can make people feel they're part of one country they can believe in, we're in trouble i think na that sense taking care of our country, our economy does make sense. he said, i want a foreign policy for the middle class, meaning they'll do whatever it is to

benefit ordinary americans, and i think that's right so i'm in sympathy with the idea that our problems aren't just overseas they're here too. >> john, so much of the problems are ginned up by people saying they want a civil war, they want two americas you know, unemployment, a 50-year low. dollar at a generational high. teen pregnancy at 60-year lows you look at the u.s. economy, we're still the standard, the strongest economy. our military stronger than it's been since 1945. yet what all these rchs do if they lose one election, they hate america, hate elections, hate our intel, say america is going to hell.

in fact, when you look at the numbers, doing pretty darn well. >> look, joe the out-of-power party, they're not going to say, hey, america's doing great. if there's going to be a critique t question is kind of what they -- the kind of the tenor o the for making american better i think when you've been in the womb of our mothers for months, if desantis and others want to be the next president of the united states on the republican side, what's the path to be able to win that pass it's the case that governor's base has been a grievance

caucus it wasn't enough to win. it hasn't been enough for republicans to win as we pointed out repeatedly if you were with trump, it didn't help. it didn't help the election deniers in 202 it didn't help the republicans to fair better in the midterm elections more broadly saying things that biden is not good at, that's going to be the election whether the rage caucus and the snowflake caucus and grievous caucus is going to dominate this republican fight or not, right now if you believe as to go back to our first topic in this morning a block here, it's a go. desantis and donald trump are both racing further and further,

to the dystopian it's just going to be all complaint, all grooenks, all rage, all snowflakism. if that's where the republicans are going, i'll see if there's an opening for somebody else for a different kind of critique against biden and a different vision for america. >> yeah. maybe a little autocracy sprinkled in there look at their actions and what they've done owe, criticize joe biden about he can go after weather you're a republican, you want to go after his reteats from afghanistan

do you want to blame him for inflation, the border? talk about all those things. we've talked about them on the show there are critical things to criticize joe biden about, have a debate hour, but talking about how america is the greatest threat to western civilization, i think it's really important to keep things in perspective here, maura. >> we have a guy who talked about american carnage at his inauction real address the economy is doing better, a helluva lot better than we he left at the same time he because talk about about on our show, on our show how he respected vladimir putin so much more than barack

obama, that putin was a strong leader, and we kept saying he killed journalists, he killed journalists. he was a strong leader so he respected vladimir putin while attacking the united states then at the beginning of the russian invasion he said it wa beautiful, russia was savvy for doing that and he said, we need that here in the united states this is donald trump's vision of america. you talk about dystopian his vision of america is being a putin-like leader. don't trust me trust donald trump's own words >> joe, i'm glad we're having this conversation. this is not just dystopia. this is fascism, white supremacy and coded. i think we need to break down what this is

in this case, say to donald trump, what america are you talking about that's a greste threat to american civilization. what is it is it pluralism t fact that immigrants still want to come here and you point out is there it the fact that there are cities that are filled with diverse people i think the society has to be confronted they're very real. and even though that rage caucus as john said and aptly so wasn't enough to get donald trump over the finish lierng we have to take it seriously, and i think it's never a bad thing to ask that question. why at a time when we could be having important debates over climate change or how to make the economy work for everyday americans and make sure our kids can do better than our kids did,

why are we having -- or fix the gun control laws so we can fix it so the government's not mowed down why are we talking disphone ya because the fears that they're playing to have very real resonance with americans it means there are legal files a lot of them are very ayn shents in this country until we confront that, it's ha today have a rational conversation in this country. the markets dig in for another uncertain day on wall street with a crazy weekend it's been andrew ross sorkin joins us ahead on "morning joe. every day, millions of things need to get to where they're going. and at chevron, we're working to help reduce the carbon intensity of the fuels that keep things moving.

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chinese president xi jinping will visit russia next week. the state visit's going to take place from monday to wednesday new this morning, big news nato member slovakia has announced the government plans to give 13 fighter jets to ukraine. it comes after poland announced it will provide jets they're the first nato country to do so the first jets would arrive in ukraine in the next few days it's not like abrams tankings, we'll give them you do in a couple of years. it's not chairnged, dot, dot, d, yet. you can see this coming eventually you knew jets were going to be

coming there's eventually. i want to focus on poland. here's poland who broke the ice on tanks and did that a couple of months ago, now breaking the ice on jets and they're being followed by o'nato members talk about that. how important has poland been in the nato alliance and this war and what could we see next what impact will these jets have >> poland has been rock solid in supporting ukraine when they're in poland. i know you and mika feel this intense connection as in this is our fight too. i have the say the initial impact of the soviet fighters coming from poland to ukraine will be most important on morale this is a tough time for ukraine.

they're getting battered the level of casualties, loss of human life, the way ukrainians feel that way, it's powerful so this will be a shot in the arm. our allies stand behind us we're going to get some air power. in terms of actual effects on the battlefield, most people i talk to say don't expect radical changes. the key issue is whether they'll be useful in close air support in the ukrainian offensive that we all believe is coming in a month or two whether these old russian air jets will be useful remains to be seen. they won't be great in dog fights if they get in fights with more modern russian jets, but i don't see that as being a lighter future few now it's a sign that ukraine's close neighbors want to help them in a time of

enormous difficulty when as "the washington post" story said this week, morale in ukraine is a little bit shaky as people struggle with this very long bloody war. >> you know, jonathan lemire, this is a step-by-step process we've seen it before leading up to the tanks going there step-by-step process poland says it's going to give them tanks, push the germans to give tanks they said we'll do it if america does it. so they started sending tanks. when you hear about tanks have to go there next or general mccaffrey saying we're sending tanks out. suddenly tanks are in the discussion we started hearing about jets talked about a month or so ago at some point i think we're going to be seeing f-16s over there. it's just a step by step by step

process over there how important does the white house think for them to get the migs. >> yeah, this is a pattern we've seen established previously. to this point, let's be clear. there are no plans to send fighter jets there are louder voice on capitol hill pushing the white house to do so you know, and then we're seeing the domino effects poland going first then slovakia. there may be others doing it in days at some point the u.s. may do it, too, even if it takes a little longer. to david's point, they can't get here soon enough even if they don't have much of an impact in the combat, this is a valid moment it might be a waste. it's not a really important

city but it's become a psychological battle ukraine has poured so much resources and power into this that losing it now would be seen as a pretty devastating blow even though secretary of defense austin said a few days ago he didn't think it would change the trajectory of the war. ukrainians feel it differently they're draining their manpower is up ploys and it may hinder their ability. coming up on the 20th anniversary of the invasion of iraq, our next goeflt is look at ca with conflicting emotions that's just ahead on "morning joe. ♪ ♪

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get a check on the st. patrick's day forecast bill, look at you wearing the green. >> i told them to say william with the forecast. i had it all in front of my name it was dropped when they came over from ireland. >> what's the st. patrick's day forecast look like let's start with new york, the big parade. >> new york and savannah, they're holding on it looks like it's going to stay dry. we have a huge storm moving to the east there's a lot of clouds and rain, but the rain is going to dry up looks like a cloudy forecast for the afternoon for the east the temperatures are going to

get cold this weekend. boston today, 53 degrees, new york city in the mid 50s for raleigh to savannah, 60s and 70s. let's get to your parade forecast today is the parade in new york. clouding over, about mid 50s, no problem there. savannah, mid 60s to low 70s if you've never been in savannah for st. patrick's day, the population quadruples. it's an insane amount of people and partying boston, the parade is going to be on sunday, cold and windy about 38 degrees this weekend is kind of quiet. we've heard all the stories about california, how nuts it's been it's going to quiet down, not a lot of problems, just chilly for our last winter weekend.

>> it's great to see you we need to get you in again. coming up, please don't call it a bailout how washington is haunted by the 2008 financi calrisis despite the fact the federal government made money, made interest on those bailouts

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coming up, we're going to speak to a former bureau moscow chief for the "new york times. we're talking airmail straight ahead on "morning joe.

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♪ welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe. it is 1:00 p.m. in dublin, ireland. we've got the cam there. we thought we saw mike barnicle sneaking in there. it's "morning joe's" version of where's waldo. you see him there in the hat in dublin, 1:00 p.m. it's 6:00 a.m. on the west coast. that means we have a lot to get to this morning, including a remarkable effort of 11 of the nation's largest banks to save first republic bank. andrew ross sorkin will join us

to discuss what the administration is doing to reassure americans that the us banking system is safe. also ahead, the latest from paris amid the outrage over the move to raise the retirement age in france. wants to raise the retirement age to 64. they're setting streets on fire in france because somebody's trying to save their economy, save their retirement system and raise the retirement age to 64 it's kind of like thatcher in the '80s in britain. is this a fight he wins or france loses when you look at the retirement system. it is the most generous in all of europe. right now they just don't economically have the means to

continue funding it for years to come these are the streets of paris macron, the won the presidentia race last year obviously he didn't get the majority in parliament that he needed to push those pieces of legislation through. and so he's using another route to do it i think in the end he wins also from france, nearly four years of the iconic notre dame cathedral is devastated by fire, there is progress this morning in its restoration great news also, we'll show you why march madness brackets around the country are already busted as after two major first round upsets

with us for the hour, the host of "way too early. he's been here 15 straight hours. expect the tie to come off pretty soon. he's going to start to tell jokes. that is none other than jonathan lemire you spotted barnicle on that dublin cam, didn't you >> i did he's the guy in green with the hat. it's a great spot for live music. that's a pretty good place to be any friday, but particularly on st. patrick's day. >> we also have chief white house correspondent for the "new york times" peter baker. and also mark, an nbc news

security intelligence analyst. also former white house director of communications for president obama jen palmieri great to have all of you with us mark, i wanted to start with you. you know a good bit about anti-american sludge that people spread out of moscow, beijing, out of north korea, out of iran. what do you make of a former united states president saying the greatest risk to western civilization is not putin, is not xi, is not north korea, is not the mullahs of iran, but america itself >> it's sad. it's depressing. i think it defames the men and

women of the intelligence community, the u.s. military, law enforcement who workd day ad night for this country one thing i think americans don't necessarily realize is that american domestic politics is watched globally. when you see former president trump say these things and throw it on top of what ron desantis did as well in relation to the war in ukraine, our allies and partners overseas really do question what's going to happen over the next several years. i think president biden has restored american credibility with nato. the alliance is stronger than ever again, as you're sitting in a fox hole somewhere around the world with european partners with our ukrainians somewhere in the european theater, ukrainians do watch these american politics and wonder what's going to happen in a year or two.

it's sad it's depressing. hopefully we'll see things change for the better. you did see republicans speak out. that's important. >> we had marco rubio, lindsey graham, john cornyn, john thune, mitch mcconnell, many others speaking out against that. i will say, though, it's just incredible this is saying democrats who used to be called anti-american, communist, this, that and the other, i can't imagine what would be said if you had the leader of the democratic party saying the greatest threat to american are not the communist chinese, not vladimir putin, not kim jong-un, not the mullahs in iran, but the united states itself you have from the same party the leaders and their number one defenders in the media attacking the united states' military,

attacking the intel community, saying helicopters used in afghanistan are going to be flown here and the military is going to use them against american who is voted for donald trump, that the intel community is going to kick down doors and attack people who voted for donald trump you even have senators on capitol hill saying that irs agents are going to go to iowa and kick down doors and shoot people with ar-15s this is sheer, pure hatred of the united states. i love this country and i think we still are, as ronald reagan said, a city shining brightly across the world yet, all we hear is hatred of america from donald trump and his acolytes >> it's trump and then you see desantis trying to do his version of it. when you look at people outside of the one day that donald trump

was able to win in 2016, outside of that experience, america elects presidents that are optimistic, that believe in the country, that advocate while they want to deal with the problems, they also believe, like bill clinton still believes in a place called hope they still believe america's best days are ahead of it. what you see with desantis and trump, it's not the politics of addition they are arguing over a less than 50% part of the electorate that is going to be open to hearing that kind of message even further within that is going to be people who want to believe the grievances, that america's best days are behind us, bad things about the intel

community and all of that. that's an even smaller slice of the pie to try and get the republican nomination. there's not a big appetite for that outside in the rest of the country. it's not how america elects presidents it's not someone who has a negative view of where the cou fundamentals of the country, our defense community, intelligence community, what the government can do, that is not who wins presidential elections. >> let me keep saying this until it breaks through to republicans. this anti-americanism, attacking the military, attacking the fbi, saying our military men and women are weak and woke and they wish they were more like russia. are you kidding me donald trump says the same thing. after the ukraine invasion,

donald trump said it was brilliant, it was savvy. just like when he was on our show in december 2015, attacks barack obama and wishes he were more like vladimir putin, that vladimir putin is a, quote, strong leader. this doesn't scale you lose in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021 and 2022 and you're going to keep losing lincoln said america was the last great hope in a dying world. some guys that you followed on the campaign trail talked about, bill clinton said i still believe in a place called hope that was his punch line at the 1992 convention. barack obama got elected on hope and change we know about ronald reagan talking about america being the

city shinie ing brightly for all the world to ee. now trump and his acolytes, ron desantis, they're going in the opposite direction, it seems to an increasingly shrinking audience. >> remember, he started his presidency with the american carnage speak, which was so dark he had bill owe 'reilly about putin. this has been a line of his for years. he's taking it to extremes it appears to the part of america that feels like the country they knew as they grew up is somehow slipping away. that can be about economics, race, immigration. there's a sense of dislocation it is not a majority of the population, as jen said.

obviously, president trump never once had the support of a majority of americans, not on election day 2016 or 2020 and not in any poll. but it is a powerful force in the republican party you don't need a majority to win the republican party you just need more than the other guys he appeals to people who believe america is slipping away, that their nostalgic view of the country is being corrupted by wokism and immigration and all these things >> again, you have donald trump being so stream, talking about how we need to be more like russia, talking about how we need that here, talked about an invasion of ukraine with war crimes, says we need more of that here, saying that putin is

a strong leader. this morning china announced its leader is going to travel to moscow next week, the first trip to russia since it invaded ukraine. keir simmons is with us. >> a defiant message from russia this morning in the past few hours the russian defense minister presenting the pilots of those fighter jets that targeted that u.s. drone with awards that major diplomatic announcement, china's leader will be president putin's guest in russia next week. other overnight, china and russia confirming president xi will visit russia next week it could have major implications for the war and the united

states' relationship with china. the chinese saying xi's trip is for friendship and deeper mutual trust. china's attempt to portray itself as a peace broker has been met with skepticism from u.s. officials, who have pushed xi to also meet with ukraine. >> we have long been encouraging president xi to talk to president zelenskyy. we think it's really important for the chinese to get the ukrainian perspective and not just mr. putin's >> reporter: the united states has also been sounding the alarm and warning china against providing military aid to russia in the war, which will be top of mind for american officials during this high stakes meeting. it comes after that new video making headlines around the world, evidence, the pentagon says, of russia's recent aggression in the air, that

shows two fighter jets targeting a u.s. drone now the russians attempting to recover the drone from the black sea. the russians have already reached the area where the drone crashed, according to four u.s. sources. the pentagon saying it took steps to ensure the russians won't obtain any useful information, the u.s. attempting to wipe any sensitive data the video has been edited for length by the pentagon, but the u.s. military says it shows events in sequential order and demonstrates russian claims the plane never hit the drone are wrong. >> russia's false information, obfuscation, changing narratives also speaks for itself. >> reporter: slovakia becomes the first country to send fighter jets to ukraine.

>> thank you so much nbc's keir simmons mark, there are a lot of other things i want to get to, but man, let's talk about the russians for a second. they tried to spray a drone, they hit it. they played bumper cars with jets there's no way they tried to hit that drone now they're getting awards for not knowing how to fly their jets does anything sum up the russian military better than this over the past year? >> you got it. anyone you talk to in us air force circles will absolutely say that russian pilot is lucky to be alive. incredibly reckless flying, it makes no sense the russians have air-to-air missiles they could have taken down the drone. this is not some sort of ninja

tactic this shows the incompetence, the impotence of the russian military and the russian air force in particular. not a great moment, certainly nothing where someone deserves an award >> this is the military that united states senators and the republican party said they wanted our military to be more like no thanks. peter baker, the united states obviously concerned when china and russia get together and meet, but china really has a real interest here in trying to broker peace talks between russia and ukraine and try to do something the west cannot do, just like they did with a pretty extraordinary peace deal between saudi arabia and iran. talk about that part of the

story. >> you're right about that china has been an interesting player in this whole ukraine war. obviously they have symbolically and vocally stood behind vladimir putin, but they haven't provided the weaponry that putin wants. that's why putin has to go to iran to get drones and he's desperately looking for north korea to help him because the chinese have not what you heard from the administration is a concern that the chinese will suddenly go all in with russia they are playing on interesting game they just brought saudi arabia and iran back together again, restored their diplomatic relations in a way that have not played a broker role in the middle east before the united states saying that's fine, we welcome that. we couldn't have made that deal ourselves because we don't talk

to iranians in that way. the united states has been boxing in china now for several years, isolating it on things like semiconductors and increased defense spending by the japanese the chinese are kind of bristling at that and demonstrated they won't be boxed in if they can help it. >> brokering a peace deal makes a hell of a lot more sense than sending weapons to russia and further isolating themselves from european partners at a time when their economy is growing very slowly. >> hit does appear that china is more of an honest broker here and they're being punished economically by what's happening in ukraine

i imagine they want to that end as well. >> let's move now to the banking crisis 11 of the country's biggest banks right now are depositing a total of $30 billion, almost as much money as lemire makes for one week working on "way too early. $30 billion in the first republic bank to avoid a third collapse of a us bank in less than a week. the move is intended to send a message to global market that is the u.s. financial system is secure that's a sentiment echoed by treasury janet yellen amid questions from the senate finance committee. >> i can reassure the members of the committee that our banking system is sound and americans can feel confident their deposits will be there when they need them. clearly the reason the bank had to be closed was that it

couldn't meet depositors' withdrawal requests. >> because their capital was losing value and they were not able to access their capital i attribute that to interest rate hikes we're seeing in face of inflation am i wrong in that >> my understanding is that the bank, to meet liquidity needs, sold assets that include treasuries that had lost market value. >> let's bring in andrew ross sorkin andrew, we see the government stepping in to rescue banks. we see other banks stepping in to rescue banks.

yet i'm still getting breaking news on my phone that credit suisse numbers are going down, that wall street is still shaky. what's beneath this? you can't help but think there's some connection with markets globally, at least across the west, that connects a boutique bank in silicon valley with a swiss bank that's been around 150 years. >> too much risk has been taken by a number of these banks the regional banks are described and credit suisse is one of them i don't blame the federal reserve for what's happened at these banks. jay powell has been telegraphing to the american public and the world what he planned to do for a very long time

it is the job of ceos and executives at these banks to say it's likely to be raining soon and we've got to buy some umbrellas. there were bank supervisors that clearly didn't do their job. obviously some of the regulations themselves loosened up, which allowed some of these regional banks to take on more risk there is something like 600-plus billion dollars of unrealized gains in our banks that should not be there have been unrealized losses before, but that lived around $100 million and that was manageable but confidence evaporates and people start to move their money. the government is saying deposits implicitly are

guaranteed so everybody is supposed to feel a lot better about that. having said that, look at the stocks this morning. first republic got $30 billion in deposits from other banks to support it yet the stock is down another 20-25% pacwest, another regional bank out on the west coast is off 11%. there is a question of whether we're going to see more shotgun marriages. we're going to have to either get some capital into these banks or create some takeovers we may have to start thinking about whether concentration is okay >> these issues kseem confusing

i went to the university of alabama, i took econ 101, never really knew a whole lot. i didn't get credit default swaps just like i didn't get crypto if you're too old and too stupid to get crypto, here is an entire section in the sunday "new york times. i read it and i was like, tom hanks in big i'm like, i don't get it this is just a simple reality here if you are a business owner and you have a startup, right now you're thinking i cannot afford to keep my money in regional banks. i'm running to high ground i'm going to bank of america or jp morgan chase or one of the

big four banks i just don't know what other banks the federal government is going to be able to do over the next month or two to stop everybody from seeking high ground. >> there has to be some form of explicit guarantees so that everybody feels fundamentally comfortable that the deposits are safe by the way, if you do that, we can argue whether that creates a moral hazard where the bank executives can take remarkable risks with deposits and that creates its own problem. i think you're going to potentially see legislation on can you raise the fdic guarantee from $250,000 to $500,000. one idea i've been trying to socialize is the idea for corporate accounts specifically identified for payroll, perhaps those should be separately

insured. if you had all payroll accounts on the corporate side insures, plus the personal individual number much higher, i think that would solve a lot of problems. you have to do it explicitly it can't just be implicit. >> peter baker, you've been writing how they're very careful to not call it a bailout the biden administration is in a tricky spot with the politics of this as the reelection campaign looms. >> obviously bailout in washington is a four-letter word president biden was vice president in 2009, inheriting the bailouts that george w. bush first proposed they've seen the price of that it changed our politics. even though the money mostly came back to the government,

even if it saved the world economy, as a lot of people argue, it left such a bad taste in the public's mouth that it gave rise to this current populism we're seeing, the tea party movement, the occupy wall street movement on the left. bernie sanders and donald trump were suddenly not just fringe characters on the wings of their parties, but major forces contending for the presidency. you can see why there's no desire here in washington to call what they're doing a bailout. they're saying it's not what happened in 2008 by guaranteeing these deposits, they say they're not bailing out the managers who got us in trouble in the first place, they're simply taking care of innocent whs who had their monen the bank >> andrew ross sorkin, thank you

very much for being with us. coming up on "morning joe," new reporting on yet another phone call, another phone call that former president trump made to a georgia official that was also recorded. also, protests break out across france as the president moves to raise the retirement age to 64. rinvoq, a once-daily pill. when uc got unpredictable, i got rapid symptom relief with rinvoq. and left bathroom urgency behind. check. when uc got in my way, i got lasting, steroid-free remission with rinvoq. check. and when my gastro saw damage, rinvoq helped visibly repair the colon lining. check. rapid symptom relief. lasting, steroid-free remission. and a chance to visibly repair the colon lining. check. check. and check.

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members of the senate just did something today that we haven't done in decades, begin a stand-alone debate about the repeal of a war authorization. the last time we've had a standalone debate on a matter that warrants a full debate has

been probably since long before i was born it is time for congress to have its voice heard on these matters. i believe this will establish a very important precedent moving forward so that the people i represent and senator kane soond m and so many others know their voice will matter when it comes to decisions of war and peace. >> the two cosponsors of the bill that would repeal the military authorization for the iraq war as well as the 1991 gulf war the senate opened debate on the legislation with a vote of 68-27 with 19 republicans joining all the democratic caucus. the bill is expected to be taken up in the chamber for a final vote next week president biden has signalled his support for the move, though it's unclear if the house will take up the measure.

since we're talking about the iraq war, 20 years later -- i know you served there -- first of all, love to get your thoughts on where your mind is going 20 years later >> so a lot of conflicting emotions you know, march 19th is coming up before that date i was living up in the mountains with the kurds before the war then i went into baghdad with special operations forces for the hunt for high value targets. so my views on this are from a field case officer who had a firsthand view of what was happening. let me paint a picture i had run iraq operations for some time. one of the things i think we forget about with the whole debate on weapons of mass destruction is that saddam's regime was a terrible violator

of human rights. it was an awful place. as we were going in, we had the notion we might do some good for the iraqi people i think that's important to understand then things went wrong when we got inside while we were catching the regime figures as was our task, there started to be inklings from washington that we're going to demobilize the iraqi military there was a senior official i was with and i'll never forget a confrontation he had with the officials flown in from washington, the colonials masters of the new iraq. charlie and myself and the field officers who knew iraq were saying don't do this and we weren't listened to. iraq really descended into a lot of chaos after that. i'm very proud of my service there. i served with heros from the

cia. it's a war that i think didn't have to happen clearly with the wmd issue, but one i'm still proud to have served in. >> you talk about the cia, their reputation being absolutely bruised and battered of wmds you had the cia director going in when george w. bush said this doesn't look like great evidence and the cia director saying, mr. president, it's a slam dunk. they were thinking back to the early '90s when they found out saddam was building a nuclear program that got cut short it's so interesting. you look back at the war i was having dinner with general mattis and he was talking about when he came in from the field that day, got into headquarters and everybody just looked like they had lost the war and he said what the hell happened?

they told him that brimmer fired the entire iraq military talked about the de-bathification plans and fired everybody. time to shut this down and go home, this is going to get ugly real fast, he said he was right w sometimes we forget that in 2007 there was a surge. there was al anbar province that actually switched sides. we have dexter filkens come on the show all the time. he wrote about his hehelliaciou

experiences in iraq. he said, i don't recognize baghdad. things have changed so radically. they changed so dramatically that in 2010 we withdrew all the groups and isis grew and we had to go back again, there were extraordinary moves, stextraordinary heros an visionaries that actually turned that country around in 2007, 2008, 2009 and made the lives of people in baghdad better until isis came in >> that's right. i think when you talk about the surge, it had a huge intelligence community component. we worked with our jordanian

allies there was a lot of smart people on the ground. one of the lessons learned in terms of the iraq war is listen to the men and women in the field. that started from when i was there in the beginning and extended years later those of us are going to have to come to grips with what we did there. when we think about the men and women we served with, we can be incredibly proud the u.s. is going to have to live with this for a long time ultimately the cia took a really big hit in terms of credibility. this was not a proud moment for the agency with really an analytic call that was extremely damaging that is going to go down in history. >> we always say here that two things can be true at one time the men and women of the military paid a terrible

sacr sacrifice, as is the case in all wars i will say the united states military is stronger and better and tougher and smarter right now because of what they learned over the past 20 years it's one of the reasons why they're training in ukraine with ukrainian soldiers making such a huge difference. all that said, it is hard to find short of vietnam a worse decision made to go to war and to find more intelligence failures and more flawed political decisions than were made in the early months of 2003 and beyond >> yeah. i was on the ground there embedded with the first marine

expeditionary force at the time. we had a briefing with the intelligence chief for the marines. didn't want to be named, was on the record we asked him what did he expect. he said i expect to see a rolling civil war in our wake. they would charge toward baghdad and have no trouble taking down the military forces. but in their wake, there would be a rolling civil war, sunni versus shiite and that turned out to be accurate the people in the washington didn't see it. we didn't really understand what iraq was all about the saddam hussein regime were brutal my wife was a reporter who documented horrific torture and crime committed by the regime at the time we went in not fully

understanding what we were about to buy putting aside the weapons of mass destruction mistake, it was the mistake of what was going to be required if we toppled the dictatorship ruling it the surge indicated how much was learned over time. in the end, george w. bush owns the decision to invade, but he also owns the division to stick with it in a way that turned it around a lot of people who work with him regret what happened i think a lot of people there feel like however well intentioned they were at the time, it was obviously something that hurt america and caused a lot of damage, death and destruction that was needless. it's a sore spot, obviously, in american history >> i think back to hearing them

warning everybody leading up to the iraq war that this was going to be a colossal mistake and the big winner at the end of the day would be iran, which is exactly what happened. jonathan lemire, we have more on the investigations into former president trump. >> let's look into the latest in the probes regarding the former president. we know this was one of the pieces of evidence presented to the grand jury in georgia convened to consider charges against trump for his attempts to overturn the 2020 election. >> all i want to do is this. i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have because we won the state >> as if that call doesn't remain galling enough, now we are learning details about

another phone call the former president made to a georgia official that was also recorded. let's bring in one of the reporter who is broke the story from the atlanta journal constitution that call right there, which former president trump has deemed perfect, but prosecutors certainly think otherwise, has been played quite a bit in recent years we know that call. but now there's another. what is it >> this is actually the third recorded phone call featuring former president trump and a georgia official that took place between the november 2020 elections and january of 2021. this new call involves the late georgia house speaker david ral ston at the same time, former president trump was pushing hard for a special session of the georgia legislature which could be used to overturn joe biden's narrow win here in georgia he called up the former speaker, said, hey, will you support me

in this session? ralston said, mr. president, i'll do whatever i think is right with regard to a special session. it kind of pumped the brakes on the president, who is just like, okay, thank you, without really pinning down the late house speaker on that. of course, georgia leaders never called for a special session of the legislature here. >> what's the situation with timing and the grand jury? since the one juror came out and gave that interview, what do you expect the timing is going to be >> that's the mill dollar ques question we're waiting for the prosecutor to announce any charging decision it's been about eight weeks and we're still waiting to hear. we might not see a public announcement of a decision for a

few more weeks now >> donald trump pushing the former speaker, saying who could stop you from holding a special session? his answer a federal judge, that's who. it seems to me that the speaker, according to these reports, understood it would be an uphill battle no matter what donald trump wanted. >> he was known as a very pragmatic republican here, who managed to get respect from even democrats in the georgia house i know he was missed after he passed away last hall. coming up, a live report from france on the restoration of the iconic cathedral of noter dam.

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forced through a highly unpopular bill thursday raising the retirement age from 62 to

64 did it without a vote. the controversial you've which has been met with major protests nationwide and clashes with riot police in paris overnight is expected to trigger motions of no-confidence in macron's dwo government and with us now is molly hunter. it was a controversial move, but macron was really in no position to lose this battle, right he shaped his entire second term and those reforms around getting this passed. >> reporter: yeah, that's right. he risked the house though for this, he risked his government for this and now he has a democratic crisis on his hand. minutes ago we did just get news that the first motion of no-confidence has been submitted. so since that controversial constitutional tool was triggered yesterday to force the pension bill through parliament, the opposition had 24 hours to submit motions of no confidence.

we were expecting possibly up to three. they have 15 more minutes to possibly submit another one. what happens now though, and i'll get to the protests, but what happens now politically is parliamentarians have 48 hours to review this motion, the vote would likely happen on sunday or monday votes of no confidence are pretty care, rarely succeed in france only one has succeeded since 1958 so it is not being seen as something that is definitely kind of a shoe-into succeed. if the vote fails, this pension bill stands and president macron stays in power with this huge trust deficit politically and with the people. but if it succeeds, his government then tumbles. he would have to rename his government or call for a general election >> and nearly four years after the fire at notre dame, there has been major work to restore the cathedral.

and this is just one of those moments it just didn't realize how much that structure meant to western civilization it was so heartbreaking seeing that and hearing that the entire structure might collapse four years later, i know you got a preview of the efforts, what is going on inside notre dame. >> reporter: and it is right behind me. and you can see all of the scaffolding up it has beaeen four years when the fire happened, they said an ambitious plan to open in five years, and we got an inside look at some of the carpenters working on the famous wooden spire take a look. for the last few months, some of the most skilled french hands, 50 carpenters in all, have been

hard at work remarkably just like the carpenters before them, they are using methods that date back hundreds of years. well, mostly this 86,000 square footwear house in northeastern france was built just for this purpose. the crafting of notre dame's mighty wooden spire. and today we're getting the first look at the first layer of the spire nearly done. and there is the real thing. 27-year-old carpenter, paul, shows us which parts he's had a hand in. and the base layer measures 65 feet by 65 feet. almost 20 feet tall. it will bear the weight of the next three layers. and we're watching them guide this huge piece of wood on top of the trestle, biggest pieces in this bottom layer weigh two tons the entire trestle is 80 tons. 2500 pieces of wood in total,

110 as part of the base and today the assembly to make sure it all fits. is it exciting to see it all come together? >> yeah. the type of job that we won't be able to do again in our professional life. so we're proud to be here. that is really cool. >> reporter: this kind of job never comes around >> no, never it is unique >> reporter: and while paul doesn't call it patriotism, he architected the team, the craftsmanship and even the trees are all homegrown. we're in the lumber yard outside and the entire spire of course is made of womb, all of it is french oak from more than 1,000 trees from across the country. the project last time we visited ambitiously planned to open up exactly five years after the 2019 fire sent the spire crashing down. now delayed until the end of 2024 at the helm, the french general.

>> we'll finish the spire in december of this year. and you will see again in the sky of paris the spire >> reporter: is there pride? >> pride and above all i say we are on schedule. we are on good track >> reporter: now, almost on schedule as i said they wanted to reopen of course exactly five years later, but the general there who heads this up, he says this is a national battle to restore notre dame and he will not breathe a sigh of relief until the first has some held inside at the end of 2024. >> what a remarkable time that will be. molly hunter, thank you so much. live from paris. now, time for a look inside the new issue of the digital weekly news letter air mail. and with us now, sandra stanley, former moscow bureau chief for

the "times." thanks for being with us let's start by talking about the bbc dustup last week i've got to read a line from stewart heritage at the end of this crisis, he said the people of britain sent a clear message to their leaders, you can remove us from europe, you can dump sewage into our river, but don't you dare even think about being horrible to gary lineker. that sums it up. >> it is an amazing story. not just that gary lineker is the most popular sports commentator in britain, but it is the bbc having totally unnecessary snafu. and they tried to suspend him because he sent a tweet that was political and it is now of course all ofbritain wants to suspend the bbc leadership

>> so tell us a little bit about one of the other topics coming in the air mail which is a piece titled skeletons in the closet, return of new o-nazis in germany >> as you know there was a coup attempt and they keep arresting every week another little group of neo-nazis this is a story of a threesome who were living under cover, young neo-nazis, who were killing turkish migrants by night and robbing banks, and by daythey were living as kind of like three's company, you know they were sort of doing aerobics and camping. and they lived undercover for five years with the police never pinning the crime on them. and what is interesting about the story besides their crazy life is they went to trial but

40 accomplices never went to trial. and that is where you realize, yes, there is a neo-nazi underworld and the authorities really aren't in charge of it or really putting an end to it. >> and topic three, art world confidential, tell us about that >> this is a gentleman, ezra, who was a major art dealer who claims that everybody cheats, everybody forges, everybody fakes, everybody cuts corners. he got caught and ended up in a minimum security prison where he found himself surrounded by the vips of sort of celebrity felons so of course michael cohen was there and nick farlane who did the fyre festival and the situation from "jersey shore" were all his cell mates. and turns out they cheat too

they cheat at scrabble it is amazing. they steal each other's food >> but he did his time and now he's been welcomed back in the art world. he said i might have changed the art world hasn't >> exactly he claims that he's back to his old tricks and so are all his crony's. so be careful when you buy a rembrandt. >> yeah, be very careful next time you buy a rembrandt the new issue of air mail releases tomorrow at 6:00 a.m. i love it. thank you so much for being with us great to see you that does it for us. thank you so much for being with us this week and thank you for your patience. jose deiaz-balart picks up the coverage good morning, it is 10:00 a.m. eastern, 7:00 a.m. pacific. we have a very bus