claim being made by the former president. there has been no official announcement from the manhatta da's office, and no othe indication that we know of o this hour that charges hav been filed against the forme president. and a spokesperson from th da's office declined to commen this morning in a statement following up on trump's posts, his spokesman also confirmed that they hav not received any notificatio that trump will be arrested or indicted and trump super pac set out press slamming manhattan d alvin bragg. this comes after a week of major developments in th manhattan da's investigation into trump's role in the hus money payment made to adul film star, stormy daniels. daniels met remotely wit manhattan prosecutors on wednesday. the same day that michael cohen, trump's former persona attorney and fixer, who's no the key witness in brad' investigation, venic testifying for a second day in front of the grand jury. other key trump white hous figure is like, kellyann conway, and hope hicks, have

also recently met with prosecutors in manhattan and just yesterday, source told nbc news that local state and federal law enforcemen agencies have already starte preparing security measures in new york in case charges are filed against trump. this is, of course, happenin against the backdrop of th start of the 2024 presidential race trump's campaign confirmed tha he will hold his first officia rally next saturday in waco, texas. joining me now by phone is m colleague, lawrence o'donnell, the host of msnbc's the last word lawrence, thanks so much for kicking us off at the 10:0 hour what do you make of trump' latest post? he's made a lot of claims an called for his supporters to protest other things in th past we run the, we've heard them is there something different about this particular post thi morning? >> well, it actually, when w think about it, it's consisten with the way donald trump ha

dealt with development involving criminal investigations beginning with the fbi searc -- which we found out about fro donald trump that's how we found out. there were absolutely no leaks from law enforcement the fbi made it a point not to wear their fbi jackets there when they were walking aroun mar-a-lago so, anybody who somehow got view that would not know wha was going on this is going to be the donald trump method we should get used to this he is going to be always the first to announce hi prosecutions that's going to be his method, i think his thought process is that it makes him look stronge that he's the one who's out in front of it instead of waiting for prosecutors to reveal what they're doing. he will always live, alway

live, and blame thes developments, news developments, on so-called leaks from la enforcement. all the leaks come from th trump side all the leaks. and so, and the other part o it is, this is a candidate whose rally sizes have bee very disappointing and nothing like what he had before when h was in his first run o president and in a second ru for president for that matter. and so, this is the most desperate attempt in history for an american politician, to increase the size of his rally audiences. this thing is completely out o his control, and i think that' why he tries to make it look like something that he's controlling by announcing it first. >> well, lawrence, and to your point about his rally sizes, you know, in this particular post on truth social, he i asking for his followers t

protest and to take back their nation, is the language he's using. do you think because he is i control of these things, h knows exactly what he's callin for when he's asking for his followers to protest >> yeah, but he knows he has a challenge. he knows the place where he is least popular on the planet is his hometown manhattan in particular. and so, he's not going to ge what he might want in terms of protest in a place like ne york city. where does he want this protest? does he want it in florida does he want to around his house? where does he want it? and where is it going to be in anyway helpful so, it's a kind of, it's a desperate cry. there are 40, 000, i'm going t say that number again, 40,00 new york city police officer

waiting to welcome any protesters who want to try t somehow register their protest about this, or give them awa of this process in manhattan this is something that i beyond the scope of what donal trump knows how to deal with and so, you're seeing an absolutely desperate attempt t deal with it this way. >> and that desperation is coming out on truth social lawrence, but just yesterday you to restate jonnel trump' account. which means he's now back on major social media platforms including twitter and facebook you and i both know conten moderation isn't exactly ver good these days when it come to some of these social medi platforms. granted, this post again, wa on his own platform, which o those other companies rethin the move to reinstate him to give him access to millions of americans, considering what he

put on truth social this morning? >> well, he's going to hav that access now as much as h ever has everything he is saying now, o his own media site i newsworthy we haven't normally been carrying here's what trump say on his crazy website every day we normally ignore more than 99% of it. but now that he's entered th prosecution zone, pretty muc everything he's been sayin there will be relevant to what we're covering and so, it will get tremendous amount of attention no matter which online service are carrying it. >> and therein lies the tensio there. msnbc, lawrence o'donnell, i want to thank you my friend fo joining us this morning an getting us started i appreciate it. >> thank you >> joining me now, we have nbc

news, -- garrett haake, politico debuts moderate editor for -- some sign and andrew weizmann, a former federal prosecutor fo it is a tree of new guard. and msnbc legal analyst -- just one thank you so much for joining me -- i'd like to start with you there's been a lot of majo developments in the trum investigations just this wee alone. you are at mar-a-lago in florida, what are you learning down there, and help us pu this news from this mornin into context >> the sense i'm getting is little bit different from what lawrence just described, and that's that donald trump largely welcomes the possibility of an indictment this week, if indeed one i coming in new york city or potentially elsewhere. why is that? he's been priming the pump for months here. to turn any targeting of him either by local prosecutors in new york or atlanta, or federa prosecutors, into a part of th grievance that has animated hi campaign for president he has set up the republican

base to believe that if he i indicted, it will be because prosecutors believe democrat believe, liberals in the justice department believe, it is the way he will describe, i that he cannot be beaten politically by no means i'm ha to be targeted politically b prosecutors. the evidence is all over the place at the rest of the republican party has followe him at least gently into thi direction. we have this new weaponization of the federal governmen committee created in the republican-controlled house, and the indictment of donald trump would force basicall every elective a republican to choose a side in the way i will likely prepare stunted. -- certainly by trump in hi campaign is, are you with th former president whom even his critics still acknowledge is very popular on the rise or are you with the woke prosecutors and the way that this will be described on th right? what you're likely to see is a move here that would push sort of wavering former trump

republicans back into the trum camp that is how trump and hi advisers who are that's how his attorneys vie it one of his attorney said o this network, just a few day ago, that he thinks an indictment makes the likelihoo of trump being reelected, or a least renominated, that much higher and so, the uncomfortable-ness of whatever may come after a indictment if trump has to com to new york and be fingerprinted and swab and arraigned. as ugly and chaotic as tha moment may be, and it' possible that this new socia post calling for protests migh make it more ugly and chaotic. politically, trump and his larger orbit have long bee preparing for this possibility whether it be from any one o these prosecutions to turn thi into a campaign issue. on that they are ready >> well andrew, thank god we don't actually have legislature that dictates what happens in our judicial system that's what the separation o powers as for. the court of public opinion is not a jury that potentiall could be looking at donald

trump if an indictment i returned what do you make, andrew, of the claims from the true socia post this morning. i think the tea leaves suggest that maybe the timing that he' putting forth, that he could b arrested as early as tuesday o next week, could make sens considering where the gran jury left itself as a vacate the premises yesterday o friday >> well, there's almost no question that an indictmen will be returned sometime this upcoming week. in terms of specifics, i appears a reporting that the grand jury in manhattan sits o mondays and wednesdays it would make sense that the may vote out the indictment on mondaire and thus donald trump would be asked to self surrender on tuesday, an that's when he would technically be arrested. that timing does make sense. if it gets pushed another day, and it happens that the gran

jury and ice on wednesday, tha also would be consistent one of the things that we've heard is that the defens counsel for donald trump's already -- made their pitch and presentation to the manhatta da's office -- unimportant set that would happen before a charge the four that michael cohen ha been into the crime jury twice this past week it does suggest that there really is only a sort of final presentation that's made - to the grand jury. as you know, that somethin that could happen relatively quickly. if it doesn't appear that th potential charges that are being considered are all tha complicated, so i wouldn't b surprised if there was a indictment voted on monday i that way we would see that sort o activity - donald trump on tuesday. i do find it interesting, ther does appear to be some indication that he's going t surrender to those charges

meaning that because he's in florida, it's not actually legally required for him t surrender. he could sit on his rights and say, come extradite me fro florida it may sound weird to people, but because of our state system, h would be indicted in new yor and would technically brin someone who is resisting arrest, they would have to extradite him from florida i could imagine a number o reasons why the former president wouldn't want to g through that process that woul involve governor desantis and somewhat protracted lega proceeding, but ultimately, don't think that there i really a snowball's chance tha donald trump would prevail a that it may just be a battl maneuver from his perspectiv to surrender to those charges, and then try to delay things a that point >> well, sam, trump's team has come from last night tha trump's going to hold his firs official campaign rally next saturday in waco texas

but it's been said, that always, trump thinks he can gather support by playing the victim. and to andrew's point there, h maybe doesn't want to ge extradited, but he certainly i making it clear in his pos this morning that he's bee victimized by the system, he's called for justice because the system has been weaponized do you really think that thi post is kind of a prelude to what's going to happen at that waco rally >> oh yeah, absolutely i think it's worth steppin back and just unpacking what happened this morning. trump's people have sinc confirmed after his post o true social that they don' have an actual forma indication that he will be arrested on tuesday. they're just going by what the call leaks there's actually nothing that' informing him formally about what's happening and yet the former president took to his social media platform to say it would happen. to gin up anger among hi supporters over a potentiall

happening, and then to announc that he will be holding a rall a week from today in waco, texas. obviously a pretty symboli place to hold a rally when you're being, in your words, targeted by the feds this is part of what trump's political appeal is about. i don't think that's news to anyone that he does play the victim and that he's not a person's totally, not just in his tim in politics, but also in his time predating politics. there are, of course, some echoes and i think that's why everyon is on high alert there are echoes to th rhetoric we saw this morning to what we saw in the prelud to the january 6th certification vote in congress the question here is, and think everyone is wondering, and lawrence asked it to if he is trying to stir protests to get people upset a the government, to frame thi as a partisan prosecution, and

to use this to his advantage i a partisan, political way, where does he do it, how doe he do it, will he do it in florida, will he do it in ne york texas is obviously the first sight, but the machinations of this are also interesting. as you noted, he's back on the social media platforms, heat alert has been exiled from youtube, facebook or twitter does he use those platforms to do the same, and if so, what d those platforms to if he goes to them to form a unrest a lot of variables here, but t your direct question, yes, thi is trump now in a place where he' trying to play the victim an use it for political advantage >> well let's hope that ther isn't any -- and there aren't any protest around the united states andrew weissmann, thank you fo joining us, karen, samson, w will just see you in just little bit, stay with us after a quick break, we'll continue our breaking news coverage on donald trump and his claims that he will be arrested this coming tuesday

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breaking news this morning, couple hours ago donald trum posted on his online platform, to social, that he will be arrested on tuesday. he also called on hi supporters to quote, take ou nation back. this comes as we have been awaiting a decision from the manhattan da's office abou whether it would indict trum on criminal trudges for th hush money payment to stormy daniels. to be clear, trump is no necessarily saying he's been officially told of charges and there's been no situation by any of his allies that he has. nbc news has reached out to th manhattan da's office and it has declined to comment. if trump is in fact indicted he would be the first former president of the united states ever criminally charged. joining me now on the phone is

trump's former persona attorney, michael cohen. michael is among several witnesses that the grand jur in manhattan has been hearin from michael, good morning. i sure it was some news to wak up to. this idea that trump indicatin he is going to be arrested o tuesday of next week, but we'r not going to traffic in some position, let's just look at the actual facts we do know stormy daniels ha not actually testified in fron of the grand jury yet, but you are there twice. just a few days ago this pas week in terms of the stage of thi investigation, from what you know, having appeared in front of this grand jury, do you think they will need to hear from stormy daniels. they being the grand jurors. >> it's not for me to make a determination. the district attorney, elton break and his team, he - who they choose to put befor the grand jury i believe that they have mor than enough at this time withi which to make a decision, bu again, i'm not the distric

attorney and so, we will all have to just wait and see fo that as well >> but, michael, you wer involved though. you did time in fact, you are the only on who's actually done anytime in incarceration dealing with donald trump, dealing with the stormy daniels payment was there something that would require this jury, do you think, to have to hear from stormy, o does the jury [inaudible >> katie, i appreciate the question, i don't want to talk about the beliefs, my belief as it relates to the distric attorney to this prosecute - i will intel you that they are incredibly, incredibly knowledgeable. there is a significant amoun of documentation there is emails and texts an so on. they have, in my estimation, quite some time, what they nee to do. just to go to this, as you

stated, this and true social posts i was put out by donald. knowing donald, the way that i do, i don't see a reason tha donald would have put out th statement unless he has, or hi team, have been contacted by the district attorney's office and advise accordingly it's not donald to turn around and to come up with somethin for, just because he is bore in mueller auto, sitting there on a saturday morning saying let's throw this all up. this is probably, this i exactly him reacting t information that he has, and not leaks as he would like t say by the district attorney's office there are no we coming out fro the da's office. that i can tell you for sure this is all coming out o trump's -- i'll tell you something else about when i read that post. it's eerily similar to the battle cry that he put out jus

prior to the january 6th insurrection especially including the cal for protests i agree with andrew raisma when he said, it would hav been smart for donald to write peaceful protest, but he doesn't want a peacefu protest. he wants another violent clash on his behalf. for two reasons. one, because the tools that ar representing him, the clow show of lawyers, what they believe is that, this will propel him into the white hous by having another violen insurrection this time it would be in new york but more importantly for donald, it's all about the great rift. he will profit from this actio by slitting contributions. in order to protect him, you favorite presidents, from th racist alvin bragg and all the

left-wingers >> michael, we do know, this w do know, trump's attorneys hav said that trump will surrender if he's indicted and indictment has not been -- grand marais to the best of ou knowledge. he has not been arrested yet his attorney said he wil surrender himself. you know donald trump very well does that sound right to you does it make sense that he would voluntarily turn himself in or do you think he'd want to martyr himself a little bi more and try to make them work harder to be able to get him into custody >> no, he'll turn himself in because the other way is extremely embarrassing and he' already trying to make himself into a martyr. he doesn't need to have them pick him up whether he's at hi texas rally or in anothe state. he already classified himsel as a martyr.

michael cohen, author of revenge, how donald trum weaponize the u.s. departmen of justice against his critics and the host of the -- podcast. we appreciate your time, thank you michael for spending i with us. >> have a great weekend, kate. >> thanks michael. and joining me now is olivia troye, a former senior adviser to then vice president mik pence. olivia, it's good to see you as someone who worked in the trump white house, in that administration, what is your reaction this morning to the breaking news and how are othe republicans that you kno reacting to this trump socia truth social post? >> good morning katie, it' nice to be on with you again look, i think that we're waiting for the rule of law to play out i think this is an important potential step towards accountability for a man who i very dangerous, that we don' want to return to leadership i our country. but first and foremost, i have to say, the concern amongst ou

circle is the potential fo violence and the language used in that tweet. it's the - playbook all over again that's developing here. while he doesn't specificall say violence, he knows exactly what he's doing, it's exactl the type of message that h weighs out he knows he's expressing a cal to action to his arden supporters >> on twitter this morning marjorie taylor greene, quickl reacted to trump's post saying quote, biden's doj i coordinating with the democrat in the manhattan da to arres donald trump the top republican presidentia candidate for 2024, and charge him with a fake outdated misdemeanor charge it's all for politics. this is what they do and communist countries to destroy the political opponents. republicans in congress must subpoena these - and end this i mean olivia, that's quite th escalation in language, it's kind of on par from what we've been hearing from former president donald trump do you anticipate and the othe

republicans heating th marjorie taylor greene call, but to your point olivia several republicans believ that truth about january six that donald trump incite violence do you think the foolishness o this true social posts wil actually have other republican saying, we're not touching this, we're not going to support donald trump >> i mean i would hope i think that's the right thing for the country to do righ now. you have a choice. and the choice the, obviousl voices to -- get out there and push back on it and that's the right thing t do for our country but the country over the party that is the moment we're i right now. once again i would say do i think that there is going to be others who are going t fall back in line? yes. i do expect that i think that this will show wh is willing to waste integrit over what's happening here i think that it is on them well they do the fox new playbook will they be talking about thi behind the scenes, saying ho bad it is and knowing exactl

what's happening here and then lie to the public about it - and encourage this kind of behavior that's certainly the possibility because that is ho this machine works >> olivia troye is, it's alway a pleasure to have you former homeland security adviser and counterterrorism adviser to former vice president, mike pence, w appreciate the time. and joining me now i democratic senator, tina smith of minnesota senator, this update fro donald trump signals a major development in the manhattan da's case. i have to ask, what's your reaction to his claim that h will be arrested on tuesday of next week? >> well, this is such reminder of what a unprecedented moment we are in i hope we can all hope, that finally the irresponsible an airy just and illegal behavior of this person will finally be held to account. we can show this country tha

no one is above the law. i am just so struck by remembering back this mornin to the to impeach is that time i was involved in united state senator of donald trump. remembering my republica colleagues, some of my republican colleagues saying oh they believe that donal trump has learned a lesson - yet we here we have today, him sending out a message which is a clear signal to his followers. we know how dangerous that can be >> yes, and there is tha concern, senator, that the las part of his trump truth social post, asking the protesters, his protesters - and take back our nation, ma incite some violence -- tell my colleague, jonatha capers, earlier this morning that donald trump is solel responsible for the invasion o the capitol in light of hi call to action what is your reaction to

congressman mick water statement on her opinion about donald trump and his culpability. not only about - but if something were to happe in this particular instance, which we don't want to see happen what he also will have culpability responsibility >> absolutely. i mean, he's currently under investigation for many possibl crimes, including attempts t overturn an interfere in our free and fair elections. i was in the capital on januar six, and i remember clearl what that experience was light and knowing that it happened because donald trump incited and encouraged his followers t come to the capital, to attack the capital, to engage a insurrection, to upset the peaceful transfer of power so, it is not in a vacuum that he says today and that socia media post, when he's callin his followers to take action that doesn't happen in a vacuu

and we know how dangerous that can be >> senator tina smith, democra of minnesota, i thank you so much for joining us this morning for this important coverage >> thank you >> and we will have more continuing coverage of forme presidendot nald trump saying, he will be arrested this comin tuesday. next on -- right? uhh...nope. intuit quickbooks helps you manage your payroll taxes, cheers! with 100% accurate tax calculations guaranteed. for copd, ask your doctor about breztri. breztri gives you better breathing, symptom improvement, and helps prevent flare-ups. breztri won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. it is not for asthma. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. don't take breztri more than prescribed. breztri may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vison changes, or eye pain occur. if you have copd ask your doctor about breztri.

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trump stated on his online platform, true social, that he will be arrested on tuesday. to be clear, trump is no necessarily saying he's been told of charges that there's n suggestion by any of his allie that he has. nbc news has reached out to th manhattan da's office and it has declined to comment. joining me now is nbc senior national politics reporter john allen, also joining us on this breaking news story i msnbc contributor and ne yorker editor, david rohde good morning gentlemen jonathan, i'd like to star with you earlier in the week, you attended a trump rally and spoke to supporters about what a criminal indictment migh possibly mean to them. what did you learn >> those in the average port o with the former president on monday, or his rally not with him with him. what i heard him talking t supporters of trump's at the rally where that he's no worried about possible indictments. the words that i heard repeatedly were fake and fraud when i asked separate from the question of whether thes

charges were legitimate, where they legitimately hurt trump politically, and the response got was that it would help him >> david, trump has said tha he won't drop out of the 202 presidential race if he' indicted so, what kind of impact, do yo think, this will have on his campaign what will this mean for hi politically? there's talk, obviously, fro the trump side that is going t buoy his opportunities and his chances to be able to get back into the oval. >> well, i agree with jonathan i think it would help him with his base the republican base. i do think what he's doing right now is going to hit him, sorry her tim, with suburban voters, including moderate publicans alerts has talke about this this morning, but this is completely donald trum creating drama every day in the court house across the united states people who are accused o crimes voluntarily show up and get arraigned. steve bannon did that.

michael cohen did that when he was accused. roger stone, paul manafort it's simple for donald trump t show up. this is a white colored crime. it's not a violent crime he will receive bail and lik all americans, he will, i want him to have a fair trial the talk of arrests is exaggerated. he could refuse to show up, an create a spectacle he could dare law enforcemen officials to come arrest him a mar-a-lago, and i do think tha this whole spectacle helps him with his base i think it hurts him with many other american who are tired of all this chao >> and the histrionics right john, we just had michael cohe on a few minutes ago, he's claiming that there is no wa this manhattan da's office i responsible for any, quote unquote, leaks despite what trump put forth i his -- true social post this morning.

no one else is reporting these leaks, john, and i know that you're on top of this. is this coming from his defens team is this really what's going to be happening, you think, nex week >> from the trump cab, the respect is that he's not bee told of anything trump spokesperson told nb news that earlier this morning not getting into sources message here a reporting, what we reported here is that law enforcement is getting ready for and a possible indictment. meaning that there's a lot o law enforcement agencies fro the u.s. secret service all th way to the local officials i manhattan. that needs to be i coordination in case something happens. look, we've all seen wha happens when former presiden trump calls for a protest. we saw that on january 6th he knows what he's doing, he's well aware of the power of his voice. >> david, and to john's point, trump could be crazy like a fo here is there a potential strateg here

we heard this news of the la enforcement getting ready fo extra security in advance of a possible indictment next wee in new york. is this trump maybe recant taking the narrative, we capturing the narrative an trying to get in front of it because there could be reall bad news for him on tuesday. >> yes, he wants to be the focus of the media narrative he loves this sort of, attention. again, all americans should be treated equally, if there's powerful case against him, h should be tried. but, i think that this trial helps him with his base and he wants the attention, and i lets him claim that he is martyr this is, you know, think the manhattan prosecutor are taking a risk i think of donald trump is going to be pu on trial for anything, i should be is actions on januar 6th. we don't know what special counsel, jack smith, is goin to decide. there's three tape recording of him pressuring officials in georgia to change the result there. that's a very strong indictment

this is, this could end up being a misdemeanor conviction for falsifying business record for saying the money he wa paying to michael cohen wa illegal retainer for cohen services as a lawyer, when i fact it was a hush money payment to stormy daniel federal prosecutors decided to not try to prosecute trump saying that this was an illega campaign contribution. they declined to do that his lawyers are going to use that as the three cases, thi is the weakest one again, let me state overall, the histrionics, as you said the manufactured drama, th claims of victimization, i think will hurt him, with many americans, many modern voters. i think this could help hi with his base and even helpe him secure the republica nomination >> i think you might have lost those moderate voters a whil ago. and you know what david, i wil remind you, alcohol went dow for something less than all th other bad crimes he was doing. he went down for the tax crimes

david rohde thank you. john allen, i thank you as well we will see you again in just little bit, john we will have more continuing coravege of former president donald trump saying, he will b arrested this coming tuesday next on velshi today, we're producing renewable diesel that can be used in existing diesel tanks. and we're committed to increasing our renewable fuels production. because as we work toward a lower carbon future, it's only human to keep moving forward.

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breaking news this morning a couple of hours ago, donal trump posted on his online platform, true social, that he will be arrested on tuesday of next week. he also called on hi supporters to quote, take ou nation back. this comes as we have been awaiting a decision from the manhattan district attorney' office about whether it woul indict trump on criminal charges for the hush money payment made to adult film star, stormy daniels to be clear, trump is no saying he's been officiall told of charges and there' been no suggestion by any of his allies that he has nbc news has reached out to th manhattan da's office, it ha declined to comment. if trump is in fact indicted he would be the first former

president of the united states ever criminally charged. joining me now is amanda turkel, a senior politics editor for nbc news reyna shaw is a republican strategist and the founder o relax tragedies. -- is back with us, politico' deputy managing a pewter for politics amanda, i'd like to start with you. how are you viewing this morning's breaking news of a potential trump arrest o tuesday. is this trump trying to get up support for his base, or do yo think he's had a conversatio with his defense attorney an he's trying to make sure the world knows that he needs to show up to help him out. >> i am not going to guess what's going on in donal trump's head, but it does seem like things have been building to this for a little while now we have been hearing chatter nbc news has been reporting. and it seems like things are moving in this direction trump himself has said tha he's got no official notic that this is simply what he is hearing based on leaks to nb news and other outlets and so, i think obviously trum

and his team are having thes sorts of discussions but yes, trump likes being i the news he likes being the center of attention. and while, being the center of this sort of legal cases may b not ideal, he knows that h can't get sympathy, and this will take the attention of the other candidates like desantis and put it back on him and mak him the murder of that you know sam, it's hard to ignore the schedule that trump has seemed to sit up here, jus yesterday he announced the first official campaign rall in waco texas in just one week from today then this morning he announced that he's going to be arrested on tuesday assuming he's out o custody, and knowing he will b some is there a through line here from this waco rally and the announcement that he is goin to rest on tuesday >> maybe it's, hard to kno it's not because some of the storm is so expat ick he was

playing golf at this morning some of this is just - get on your phone, type of things added, and see what happens. i do think that there is a through line, it's that what amanda said it's like the idea that there is some political benefits of being in monitored and he can rally generat support, and whip up protest if you are framing yourself as being targeted by the feds, an that's what trump is very good at he's done this throughout hi political career for quite effectively, and i do thin that if he is just looking a it strictly through a politica and, there's something advantageous for him in this obviously, no one wants to b indicted, and certainly no one wants to be investigated wit as many friends as he is but, if you're looking at this as a matter of campaigning this does center the republica primary conversations squarely around trump the person - who's running against him to answer the question, do yo believe that he's bein unfairly targeted or not

my guess is that almos everyone, not everyone, bu almost everyone in the field i saying yeah, he's bein unfairly targeted, and tha will make trump the center o the -- going forward. >> i mean, politically yeah, maybe trump wants to cas himself as being the victim, and maybe he wants to martyr himself considering what's about to happen to him, bu there's a big difference between politics and the law and he's ever, in the histor of united states, had an indicted former president of the united states. do you think leading members o the gop, i'm not including the -- do you think other leading members of the gop maybe willing now, once he's willing -- actually indicted, and looking at a criminal case numbe assigned to him, will that b enough to try to turn him away from trump and look forward to 2024 without donald trump? >> katie, that's been th question for about a year or two years now, if not longer we've always wonder what it' going to take with republica party to jump trump. that's just been a lot o moderates out there, a lot o

-- folks feeling that this is now it it's high time, this is goin to be the action that sends us over the cliff and says it's time for somebody new, it' time for something else. but it's always lead back to the money, honey, and that i the reason why the republica party cannot and will no suffer its relationship with donald j trump or the -- trump world because it's - excuse me, contrary to conventional wisdom, you are able to raise money off th legal troubles you are able to raise money potentially getting indicted that is the place, the republican party finds itsel squarely in right now. i don't think many established republicans will come out an do the right thing, i thin they will say privately as the have for years, that we have t do something about it, and nothing will be done and so it's going to take th courts i see this, there's another chapter that is even more dangerous than the very fact that a former president could be an had count of sometime this week i say it's a fact that we live in an era of information o

recklessness, the fact tha members of congress -- fall cities and trump himsel have come out acting as if h hasn't had insider knowledge about this being a witch hun against him, about him being wrongly framed this is all stuff that we, a individuals, and the gop was - actually pushed for the. paramount here, to really rule the day, and we want justice and for justice to be there, there has to be accountability of someone - >> you know, amanda, when they have some exhaustion over usin the adjective unprecedented, but frankly it has to be use in this particular instance. big assumption, if a indictment is returned against donald trump next week, let' turn it on and had a littl bit. let's not talk about the republican party right now let's talk about the democrats is this a gift to th democratic party we are going and we're getting it up for a 2024 race, by al accounts it looks like president joe biden, the accompany president, will ru again.

it's an indictment of donald trump going to be deemed to be a gift to the democrats? >> i think at this point democrats know never to accoun donald trump out, as they di in 2016. but, you know, - reason for running and the reason the president has been, he is one -- and so see if you have ron desantis as a candidate, for his ample, or nikki haley, tha is a contrast with biden that don't think always works a well in the presidents favor they are younger, they sort of represent the next generatio of the public and party. of course biden, if trump is running again, he can once again say, that i am the perso who can best stop trump. i will bring a return to normalcy as you seen over th past few years you know, no other democrat ou there knows the playbook of ho to beat him. and so, in some ways, it wil be a gift to biden we'll see how he is able t talk about this if biden i looking to address it directly if he has a surrogates go ou there, and talk about it

instead, because biden doesn't want to get in the mud again, this is not the cas about january six and this is corruption issue and so, this is a different wa to frame things for democrats. it does play and to -- go back into this chaos. a lot of republicans are tired of >> and you know, sam, i thin it's almost a shame that we've come a little bit love to what happens with somebody like donald trump he's earned the moniker, tough -- maybe the chickens are comin home to roost now for him. but the fact that amanda jus said, this is just the storm daniels payment, it's no january six, it's not the fake -- what does it tell you that in, and i'm going to use the adjective unprecedented, sam because i think it's a ver sobering moment that we ar talking about a former president of the united states being indicted for a crime whether it's a misdemeanor o

felony sam, what does that tell you about the state of affairs i the world of politics, that he couldn't get impeached twice and that we couldn't get rid o him. now, it's finally going to be time when he gets indicted, an that's when donald trump see when accountability truly is >> yeah, i think this is s unprecedented and so surreal that it's very tough to find the right descriptions for it. he was impeached, he jus wasn't convicted he's been in legal trouble for decades. there's been numerous cases, i'm sure, you've been on t during many of the more recent -- with this is probably th undoing of donald trump. and yet, he persists, and he stays around, and he's currently the front runner for the republican nomination. to a degree, to a large degree he's defied convention is political -- and that is his talent, think. it goes understated, but his talent is perseverance, really it could also be his undoing i don't think he's actuall

tough on, i think history show that he's not tough on, he los reelection he's lost a lot of seats for his party. his presence over th republican party in th midterms is -- clearly damaging for them. and to your earlier point, thi biden team view this, i thin he would be hard-pressed to ge them to say anything other tha politically opportunistic. he is an incredibly flawed candidate. so the fact that he persists i our political system is to a degree it reflection o brokenness of the politica system also, i don't want to be confused with the idea that he somehow was tough on - he's even flawed as a candidate, and having this indictment and the potential for othe indictments and other seriou matters, will make him mor even more flawed if he doesn't -- >> amounted circle and reena shaw, i want to thank you both for joining me this morning.

sam stein, i want to thank you as well, we will see you again in just a moment and coming up at the top of th hour, jonathan capehart, we'll take it for our continuing coverage of trump's claims tha he will be arrested this comin tuesday. the one and only rachel maddow will join him to discuss the developments don't go anywhere. you're watching velshi it's clinically shown to help manage blood sugar levels and contains high quality protein to help manage hunger and support muscle health. try boost® today. good morning

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it's saturday, march 18th. i'm jonathan capehart, filling in this morning