good morning it's saturday, march 18th. i'm jonathan capehart, filling in this morning for my friend,

ali velshi we're following our top stor this morning in a new post for truth social former president donald trum is claiming that leaves from the manhattan district attorney's office indicate tha he will be arrested on tuesday he is calling for hi supporters to protest and quote, take our nation back to be clear, right now, this i just a claim being made by the former president the manhattan da's office ha declined to comment, and there has been no other indication w know of at this hour tha charges have been filed. in a statement following up on trump's post, a spokesman also confirmed that they have not received a notification that trump will be arrested o indicted trump's super pac that out a press release slamming manhattan's district attorney, alvin bragg. this comes after a week of major developments in the da's investigation into trump's rol in the hush money payment made to adult film star, stormy daniels. daniels met remotely wit

manhattan prosecutors on wednesday. the same day that michael cohen, trump's former persona attorney and fixer, who is now the key witness in brags investigation, finishe testifying for a second day. in front of the grand jury other key trump white hous figures like kellyanne conwa and hope hicks have also recently met with prosecutor in manhattan just yesterday, sources told nbc news that local state an federal enforcement agencies had also started preparing security measures in new yor in case charges are file against trump. this is, of course, happenin against the backdrop of th start of the 2024 presidential race just last night, trump's campaign confirmed he will hol his first official rally nex saturday that is in waco, texas joining me now by phone is m colleague, rachel maddow, host of the rachel maddow show here on msnbc rachel, thank you so much fo

joining us this saturday morning. what do you make of trump' latest post? he's made a lot of claims, and called for his supporters to protest other things in th past is there something different about this one >> jonathan, thanks for having me i'm sorry, i couldn't get into the studio in time i wasn't expecting this on saturday morning i think we have to be measured in our response to this, jus because we don't actually know we don't have any indication that trump is responding t some communication from th da's office or some act within the criminal justice syste that we don't have, we, th public, don't have access to it kind of seems like he i just - to nbc news reporting yesterda that people are preparing fo the possibility that he migh be indicted. he is kind of yelling at the tv so, i think it is possible t over interprets going on here.

but, when reporting for nb israel, and that possibility that he will be indicted israel so, when these posts, response to that will be in the courtroom, i don't think w have a clear view on what hi legal defense is going to be but his overall defense is going to be to try to raise th civic cost of inditing him he is trying to brin intimidation and pressure to bear against the prosecutors who are considering right no whether to indict him. and he is helping to creat fear that there will be anothe january 6th type of event or his followers will shoot u another fbi office something else that he could cause to happen by asking hi followers to go into the court in his defense >> i'm glad you brought that up i love that phrasing raise the civic costs of indicting him. i'm wondering, it's hard not t recall january six when yo

read a post like the one he pu out this morning and i want you to talk further how concerned are you, and should people be concerned tha trump's supporters will se this as a call to action >> he is trying to make it that one of the things that i hav been poking around, thinking about and trying to do som research on this, week i trying to quantify the numbe of public officials and former public officials who get arrested and indicted fo stuff. it's taken me a few days, i've been poking around for a while because it's essentially infinite number. there are so many stat senators, big city mayors, governors, members of congress former members of congress statewide elected officials of other kinds, who get arreste and indicted and thrown at office occasionally, jailed it just happens all the time it's not the end of the world. it's not even the political en of the world for some of those figures!

i was looking back at huey long, who i think it's one of th historical figures we got in the country who is most analog as to trump on the effect he had on his supporters. he was a great laugh, lyin applause, lie the apex of hi political career, when he wa getting ready to challenge fdr in 1936, before he was - wasn't able to do it one of his great laugh lines was about how many times he ha escaped indictment how they tried to impeach him, and they tried to indict him and that made him stronger and stronger and stronger. getting arrested, gettin indicted, even going to jail isn't the end of the line. it isn't the end of the world, but trump is trying to make it that he is trying to make it so there is a threat of uncontrollable political violence in this country tha is, would be triggered by an act of a legal system agains him. there's nothing intrinsic abou

him getting in trouble, as a publicly corrupt figure, tha should cause violence. but he is making sure that i does the question is whether hi followers do it. >> to that point, yo anticipate that next question was going to ask you given this long history of public officials up and down the roster being arrested, and some of them viewing it as a good thing, you think that number of times they've been indicted as a punchline in a campaign speech, is this goo for trump, politically because he is, right now, th clear candidate for president. >> yes i mean, i think he is bankin on it being something that helps him. but he is playing with a fir that he doesn't know how t contain. nobody knows how to contain it right? i think it is a little unnerving that his first political campaign appearance, for his 2024 run, is in waco,? right where the 30th

anniversary of the wake of standoff you are talking about trying t and gender more intens consciousness among american about the need to fight th federal government wit violence waco is a nice place to try to do that. from a nice -- to do that from him being indicted on you know, on a charge related to campaign finance, tax, and business fraud, again, doesn't have to be the end of the worl for him. it could potentially be positive for him but if he is asking for militant, racial - racially tinge, violent or sponsor his followers, tha something that won't be good for him. january six was not good for trump's political legacy all the other things it is, al the other things it means to our country, it didn't make hi more electable for coming back as another term as president he's trying to start something

i don't think he can tak responsibility for how it will finish so, i just don't think it' wives on his part. it's not the strategy for hi to be calling for what he is calling for. >> rachel, let me get you on one more thing just yesterday, through to bring stated donald trump' account, which means he is now back on all major social media platforms, including twitter and facebook granted, this post was on hi own social media platform, but should those companies regre the move to reinstate him an giving him access to million of americans >> i mean, we'll see i think those companies are in a bit of a crisis of conscienc right now in terms of what their business plan is and how much they want to benefit from undermining the democracy that makes it possible for them t thrive as companies. i think companies like facebook, meta, and google and youtube they need to figure out whethe

or not they are going to let a nihilists like elon musk set the tone in terms of wha counts as corporat responsibility for something that really does have th possibility to unless ou democracy in a way that is irreversible or whether they have a sense o self as companies, in the sens of responsibility, for who the are and what kind of legal environment they require i which to operate and i am hoping there will be reckoning on their own terms and they won't be forced to ac like they were after january six. >> msnbc's rachel maddow thank you very much. thank you for coming to th program this morning joining me now, nbc news senio capitol hill correspondent garrett haake. politico's deputy managing editor for politics, sam stein and carroll leonnig, pulitze prize-winning investigativ reporter for the washingto post thank you so much for joinin me this saturday morning garrett, let me start with you what is the latest word from the trump team about what they

know and don't know about th manhattan da's investigation >> well jonathan, they don't know much of anything in terms of timing or whether or not th former president is actually going to be indicted trump spokesperson trying to clear up some of what is i that truth social posts from the easter morning, saying tha is based on, in their words, leaks, and reality in reportin by our colleague, jonathan teens who first broke the story, that law enforcement agencie in new york are getting read for the possibility that donal trump could be indicted, and the challenges they would face this would not be any normal defendant. you've got somebody who woul have to be processed through the legal system with secret service by his side, so, tha kind of thing takes some doing to just get set up and ready trump's team doesn't kno anymore than you or i migh about the timing of a possible indictment sort of filling in the gaps an what rachel just reported, based on my own reporting with trump's team, i can add tw things that are of note here first, politically, again, the

trump team widely believed and indictment will be to thei advantage, at, least in th short term in a republican primary. you're seeing this play out on twitter. just a few minutes ago, chip roy, republican from texas, wh was one of the first members o the house to publicly endors ron desantis in 2024, wa defending trump on twitter talking about the idea o weaponize prosecution agains him. if it's trump versus liberal prosecutors, republicans, they believe, will flock back t trump. you are already starting to se that secondly, that gap to fill i here is donald trump's legal team has outlined a little bit of what would be their strateg in a courtroom, as it relate to this case in new york city. which surrounds those stormy daniels payments one of trump's lawyers on this network a few days ago argue that those payments were fro donald trump to his attorney so they would be collected - correctly described as legal fees, and they come out for billionaire to basically nuisance payments to make personal problem go away

trying to muddy the waters tha the da would have to prove thi somehow related to his political campaign in 2016 they have been running these arguments publicly here, the even got a chance to run the in the court of law, but perhaps, it might not even b until after the tragedy fo election, because if there's one thing we all know from covering donald trump for as long as we have, he is very, very good at delaying lega proceedings against him in nearly any context jonathan >> thanks for that, gareth carol, what do you think thi tells us about what is going o inside the trump campaign, and how they're dealing with these investigations closing in? >> well, i think it's starting to dawn on them that and indictment is, indeed, possible and i don't think there is any strategy in donald trump's tweets that he is coordinating with anyone else by himself. and that's coordination is look you know, this has worked for me before. a call to arms on january si brought tens of thousands of people to washington, d.c., to

help me illegally hold on to power with force i unleashed that group i brought them here. i told them to go to the capitol, and they did. they broke in and they threate the lives of police officers and lawmakers and the vice president of the united states so, it's a strategy that has worked for him, and this morning, in talking with law enforcement sources, i hav heard that they were entirel caught unaware by trump's clai that he was going to b indicted tuesday that secret has been plannin for this possibility for the last few, i would say, 72 hours, and in that planning, accordin to sources, they expect to hea from trump's lawyer before anything happens, before there's any arrangements, an donald trump and i use the wor arrest to affect, right? he wouldn't be arrested, per se, he would be given th opportunity in a felony, if yo

are indicted for this purpose, he would be given th opportunity to voluntarily tur himself in, and that would all be negotiated between hi lawyers and the district attorney so, this idea of him being handcuffed and its protester needing to show up and force t block this horrible thing from happening is a little bit of dramatic rhetoric. again, by the master of th megaphone, donald trump. >> all right, garrett, i understand and i apologize for that garrett, i understand you have some new reporting tell us what that is >> okay. we lost garrett. when we get him back, we wil turn back to him for tha reporting. sam, i want to pick up o something that rachel maddow said at the top of the hour, sort of reminding us tha donald trump's at, his rally i going to be next, firs

official rally next saturday will be in waco, texas 30 years ago was the branche vivian ray they are in puert rico, texas. how do you think that rall will go, and - he is calling for thes protests as this campaign is ramping up >> i feel like that's a bit of a rhetorical question. i think we know about how that rally goes it's going to be a ruckus. if he is indeed indicted, if h indeed turns himself in, through the manhattan da thi week, and then three or four days later, coast down to waco you can fully expect that that will be a primary point of the rally. to whip up support for him, to frame himself as a marker of rogue da, to essentially pla the role of political victim now, we know from our ow reporting in politico, the campaign in the operation is

now organizing active protests right now. but what they will do is the will try to turn anything that happens with the manhattan da' office this week into political -- and waco will be the first sight of its ostensibly, this is a rally to shore up support for a critica super tuesday state, but i don't think it goes withou saying it is a very symbolic back trap for what's happening this week on illegal fronts. >> all right, we've got garret take back, nbc's garrett haake garrett, i understand, speaker of the house, kevin mccarthy has just sent out a tweet. what is that tweet about >> jonathan this, is prett significant here this is the speaker of the house directing the house to become involved in thi development here, about possible indictments of donald trump in his tweet speaker mccarthy writes, her we go again, an outrageous abuse of power by a radical da who lets violent criminals walk,

as he perceives politica strong he goes on to say by the directing relevant committee to immediately investigate i federal funds are being used t subvert our democracy, b interfering in elections wit politically motivate prosecutions so, here we have a man, once described by the forme president as my kevin, comin to his immediate defense her by requesting committees, whic the speaker can do in republican-controlled house now, to get involved in investigating what might b behind the actions of a loca prosecutor in washington, d.c. we should be overly surprise by this. this house has stood up by committee specifically t explore what they believe is the idea of the weaponizatio of the federal government to g after conservatives, but now you have the speaker, you know ordering the united states house, the people's house, t get involved in that case that involves what is, right now, a private citizen who may or may not be facing legal charges in one county of the united states >> you know, sam, let me com

back to you. garrett's right. we shouldn't be surprised, not by what is right speaker mccarthy is directing the hous to do, given everything that we've seen it's also something that given what the former presiden tweeted out today, that -- is going to be arrested on tuesday, that his call for a protest to quote, take back ou nation, and i'm paraphrasing that's about 99% correct what does it say that th speaker of the house isn't pushing back, at least on th second part of that, i was going to say, tweet, but it wa on trump's own social medi platform >> got to respect that truth versus tweet distinction here, jonathan this is, i think, a very important moment right now there are two roads here for the republican party, and i'

curious if all them take a singular road. one is, you could, say look, donald trump should bow out of that race until this stuff i settled, right he's got a number of different legal anchors around his neck. he is now formally indicted, assuming this does happen. we have never been in this place before he should bow out until he can clear his name, and if it' clear, he can't, of, course ru again. that is one road the other roads to say, this i an inappropriate politicizatio of the justice system in the united states. he is being unfairly targeted, and we should investigate th people who are doing the investigation. that's the road mccarthy has chosen i think two things one is, i'm very curious to se if anyone else running for president follows the mccarthy path they have more skin in the gam here we asked mike pence if h thought donald trump should ru if indicted. he said to talk to trump

i'm very curious if others wil echo that call two is i wondering what kind o resources actually come to bea for house republicans if the do, in fact, launch thes investigations yes, they have been lookin into the politicization of the justice department already this does fits into that pattern. will they go full bore on this will they do that? because that, ultimately, coul serve trump even more in the context of the republica primary. if the house republican party, their political apparatuses, oversight apparatuses, are trained to do this, that is, i a, way a platform to help trum run for office it does further the idea of th republican party is essentiall operating on his plane and doing his dirty work >> it really does feel like we are in new to rain carol, last question to you. the impact on law enforcement, of not just trump's social media posting this morning, bu also this new tweet from speec

or mccarthy. one hunted percent behind th former president do these social media post have some kind of impact o long enforcement i'm not just talking about the manhattan and the district attorney's office, but does it she'll lie enforcement in othe jurisdictions? >> jonathan, great question. i think we all remember with some spine tingling feeling, some sort of uncomfortable feeling, watching the videos o trump's supporters missing barreling into, trying to stab threatening to shoot, a lo enforcement officers on th u.s. capitol i think we also all remember how police officers who sustai those bruises and thos emotional and ptsd kind of wounds on that day , how they reacted to kevi mccarthy later

when they realized he wa really not in their camp, he was not supporting, and giving truth to what they had gon through, like, pretending that it didn't happen the way tha it did but one good thing we have going for us as a country and, i don't say this with an partisan view, but just as a journalist thinking abou security and safety an monitoring that closely, the one thing we have going for us is the new york police department is incredibly seasons and veterans and disobedience and violent protests so, i think where is the ver real sort of muscle that the will bring to that city, i such a protest arrives on it doorstep i would think they are going t be a lot of law enforcemen officers in new york who are not thrilled to see th president bringing that heat t their city and bringing th heat towards them, and kevin mccarthy signing along with it >> carolyn of the washington

post, nbc's garrett haake, thank you both very much sam stein, thank you as, wel and we will see you again in just a minute, sam we will have more continuing coverage of former president donald trump claiming he wil be arrested this cinom tuesday. that's coming up next on velshi

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breaking news this morning former president donald trum claiming that he will be arrested next week i'm joined now by jill wine-banks, the author of th watergate girl, my fight for truth and justice against th criminal precedent, about th time she served as the assistant special prosecutor i the watergate investigation. she is also the co-host of the hashtag sisters in law podcast and an msnbc contributor also with us, rebecca roiphe, former assistant distric attorney who worked at the manhattan da's office. rebecca, let me start with you what would interact signify in

this case? >> i think that, first of all, as you said, we should tak that note donald trump gav that there will be an arrest with a grain of salt i don't think there will be an arrest if anything, there will be a arranged surrender but of course, it will b monumental if there were a indictment against a forme president. i think this letter is more of a missive, as people have said it is a call to action by hi supporters i think it's also a direct message to the manhattan prosecutor to let him know, as rachel maddow says, there will be a civic cost and a personal cost to him if he brings thi indictment i think that it is, as troubling as it is, it is in fact, stir seemly strategic. what he's saying is look, yo are a prosecutor you have to think about th public interest when you determine whether or not t bring charges. it is inappropriate to think about partisan political

interest, but is i inappropriate to think about the civic cost that comes with an indictment? i'm sure the prosecutors hav been thinking about this, an this is just a reminder. and a warning to the prosecutors about what might come should that indictment com down >> let me ask you one quic question here, rebecca, on tha point, leave aside the threa potential and the leveling o threats. legally, given everything we have seen and heard reported i this particular case, is there any possibility that trump doe not get indicted >> there is, of course, possibility he does not ge indicted until there's actually a indictment, we don't know. until we see what's in tha indictment, we don't know abou the strength of those charges, but as many people have been commenting, the science an signals are there that likely, this indictment is coming down the road now, it is not inevitable, but it does seem likely.

>> right i like to ask that question so everyone comes to the tabl knowing what all the possibilities are. jill, to stay also marks the 50th anniversary of th watergate tape, in which joh dean told nick said there was quote, cancer on the presidency put this current moment into perspective for us how does trump's possibl indictment, potentially, w won't know yet until maybe nex week, how does that compare to that scandal >> you know, if we had indicte richardton iksan, as i wante to do both while he was sittin president and certainly afte he resigned, we wouldn't b having all this hubbub about can you indict a forme president? of course you can. honestly, the prosecutors ar going to make their decision based on the facts and the law whether the facts support al the elements of the crime that they will charge, yes, o course they have to prepare fo

a quote, civic cost that he is threatening and he may try t cause. but they cannot look away from their obligation to hold him accountable for crimes committed, because of that so, in terms of the comparison to watergate, this particula crime of the three others that still remain, georgia, mar-a-lago, january six, and the last two at the federa level, those other three are certainly more in line with th obstruction of justice tha nixon created. i think the more important comparison may be, as yo mentioned, it's the anniversar of john dean's testimony let us not forget that lik michael cohen, he was coconspirator. he wants to prison he was guilty of perjury and

much more. so, people believed him becaus he and everything else cooperative what he had to say so, we should stop worryin about michael cohen being bu chief witness against him. in comparison, michael cohen looks much more credible, as this stormy daniels. so, i think the comparison i that it is time to hold donald trump accountable, and w should do it >> you know, rebecca, i' wondering what kind of impac does not only trump's social media post this morning, but also speaker of the house, kevin mccarthy's tweet backing up the former president. what kind of impact might that be having inside the manhattan da's office, as someone wh used to work in that office? do those sorts of things, thos types of communications, lan in a certain way inside that office >> you know, it's an office, a

joel was saying, o professional prosecutors they are analyzing the evidence they are looking at the law. they are thinking about what i in the public interest at this particular moment. my guess is they hav considered and anticipated all of these things prior to thi moment so of course they are listening, and of, course they are paying attention. but i don't think at this point, be in that any effect on wha the ultimate outcome is >> rebecca roiphe, jill wine-banks, thank you both ver much for being part of our continuing coverage this morning. joining me now, michae beschloss, nbc new presidential historian michael, i have to tell you, i thought waking up to the new of donald trump social media post was a bit of an earthquake, deserving of the rolling breaking news coverage we have been underway with for the las three and a half hours but the tweet backing him up

from the speaker of the house, to my mind, brings thi situation, ramps it's up to whole new level. you are the historian here tell me i'm wrong! >> you are not wrong, jonathan i'm totally with you in the wa that you have reacted to thi almost disgraceful tweets that kevin mccarthy has put out, an i don't use that word often to describe speakers of the house he is interfering with the process of the rule of law this is a duly elected da in new york who we don't even kno what's going to happen yet o what the grand jury is going t do but the speaker of the house has absolutely no business interfering with this process, siding with one side, donald trump's side, and also sayin that he is going to investigat the use of federal funds t

interfere. this is him talking. with our elections, effort b what he calls, politically motivated prosecutors. it's not his business to get involved in the legal process, and it also raises another question, jonathan, which is as you have said, donald trump has put out this statement onl a few hours ago, calling o people to nationally protest his possible arrest. he is claiming he is going t be arrested. we don't know what's going t happen yet so, you have an ex president calling for a protest we now know could turn into violence, as it did on the 6th of january, 2021, hordes invaded the capital, we were in danger o killing the vice president killing the speaker of the house, other members of th congress, the filing the house and senate chambers. that's what happened that day. but at least, as horrible as

that was, you and i talked about it that day. at least you had a speaker o the house, nancy pelosi, where we could be sure that she woul do her best to try to protec the capital against violen attack after this statement by kevi mccarthy, we have no suc reassurance. >> yeah, mike. i want to have you pick up o something that actually, jil wine-banks took the moment ago but it's in relation to a twee you put out this morning you tweeted, and i quote, ha president ford not granted nixon and almost immediate full, free and absolute pardon i 1974, later presidents might not have felt so licensed to break the law. talk more about that >> let's take a look at donald trump who knew richard nixon very well, and fouled around with him in nixon's post presidency trump even try to get nixon to move into trump tower, and nixon said he would go in an take a look.

he flew him down to texas, and in the light and the 80, t speak together that point is that for someone like trump, to the extent he knows anything about history a all, the lesson he would'v taken away from what richard nixon did in watergate was yes nixon was in jeopardy of being indicted and going to prison but gerald ford had pardon him almost immediately, and nixo spent years of his seaside manchin near the pacific trump may have taken from that the worst that could happen to me, no matter what i do as president, it's been like nixo with forward i will be able to spend that time by my seaside mansion and -- in palm beach. if gerald ford, at the ver least, not pardoned nixon on month after nixon resigned, at least if he had waited for nixon to be fingerprinted an actually indicted, maybe a least part of the trial to g on, that would have been the message to later presidents. you break the law, you are

going to suffer th consequences the same as any other american citizen i honored -- >> you saw, i wasn't sure if i lost michael beschloss audio but we lost michael beschloss, nbc news, presidential historian. i want to thank him for bein here this morning. after a short break, our coverage continues on donald trump's new claim that he will be arrested this tuesday create something new? our dell technologies advisors can provide you with the tools and expertise you need to bring out the innovator in you. socks, underwear and t-shirts are the most requested items in homeless shelters. bombas was founded to help. so for everyone you buy. we donate one. one purchased. one donated. it's a tangible act of kindness for those who need it most. distributed by 3500. giving partners across all 50 states.

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rolling coverage of breaking news in a post on his social media platform, former president donald trump explain the information leap from th manhattan da's office, it's case that he will be arreste on tuesday to be clear, trump is no saying he has been officiall told of charges, and there has been no suggestion by any of his allies that he have. nbc news has reached out to th manhattan da's office and that office declined to comment if trump is, in fact, indicted he will be the first forme president ever criminall charged. joining me now, former u.s congressman and former brookly da, elizabeth holtzman she was also the first woman district attorney in the state of new york when she served us that brooklyn da she is also the author of th book, a case for impeachin trump. miss holtzman, thank you s

much for joining me this morning. you know, earlier this hour, the speaker of the house, kevi mccarthy, tweeted this i'm going to read it here we go again and outrageous abuse of powe by radical da who lets violent criminals walk as he pursues political vengeance agains president trump. i'm directing relevant committees to immediatel investigate if federal funds are being used to subvert ou democracy by interfering i elections with politically motivated prosecutions congresswoman, what is you reaction to the leader of th house coming to trump's defens like this and so quickly >> it's horrifying it's also a sign of huge weakness what can he do to stop a prosecution or an indictment but it's also shocking that he would try to stand in the wa of living a normal grand jur procedure take place we fight i was a brooklyn distric attorney we don't fight indictments i

the streets! we don't fight indictments b having politicians stand up an saying, you can't do it. you fight in the court we have a rule of law, and wha kevin mccarthy is doing is saying, the rule of law is not governing anymore. the republicans are governing. that is not going to happen in america. >> that's your reaction to kevin mccarthy's tweet now, let's wind back your reaction when you heard the news that the former president one, put out, said that he has heard through leak that he is going to be arreste on tuesday, and on top of that calling for protests >> first of all, i assumed, could be wrong, that somehow his lawyers were told th indictment is going to b unsealed he can't be arrested, becaus new york police can't go dow to florida and arrest him, and left there's a procedure that' going to take place before that however, the fact of the matte

is that grand juries in ne york, i think this is a really important thing for people t understand it's all of the federal system where the federal u.s. attorne can recommend to the grand jur that return and indictment in new york, da's cannot tell grand jury what to do. they can present the facts they can read the law. and then the grand jury makes decision we cannot recommend to a grand jury that return an indictment so, what has to happen here is that 23 people, a majority of, them are going to make a decision if they return an indictment the critical thing is, if yo oppose it, you've got to go to courts and fight that in court that is how we do. it but what donald trump i doing is trying to resurrect january six! that is unbelievable we are basically, he incited i'm not using this in a lega sense, but he triggered th insurrection that took place a the capitol! and that was violent

hundreds of police officers, more than 100 police officer were injured people died! he wants to do that all over again? this is not a man who owe base the rule of law. this is not a man who obeys th law. this is what's so scary an terrifying we don't need more violence in america. we need -- >> congresswoman - >> we need the rule of law t govern in a peaceful fashion >> congresswoman, let me get o one more thing watergate is, perhaps, the closest comparison we have t these trump investigations with the former presiden facing a possible indictment reforms were made afte watergate, but that wasn't necessarily the case after january six. the trump administration, what do you think needs fixing in our democracy? >> well, the thing that th happen, a few things have to happen i think the thing that has t happen now is that congress, and the republicans, canno interfere with a lawful proces of prosecutions. if there's evidence, then th

grand juries, if they are goin to indict, shouldn't i prosecutor should be allowed t do their work, and then, i there is a defect, if it's fallible, then it should b hammered out in the courts i think the critical thing her is that the constitution, mean, somehow, trump is saying well, i'm a former president you can't do this to me! the fact of the matter is that the framers of the constitutio understood that they, ther will be a president, the didn't know his name is goin to be nixon or whether his nam was going to be trump, but the knew somebody was going to d something that, and if tha happened, they allowed for the prosecution and the conviction at law that is what the constitutio says that is what the framers understood we have a system of checks and balances we have the rule of law. donald trump doesn't like it because now, he is going t become, and may become, victim of the rule of law. but he has no right to overthrow it that's what he wants to do calling for another protest, calling for the people to rise

up, calling for, in essence, calling for violence, callin for an obstruction of th normal legal processes that's outrageous and it's wrong. he keeps doing it, and until there's going to be prosecution and the conviction he's going to keep doing it. >> former congresswoman from new york, former brooklyn da elizabeth holtzman, thank yo very much for coming to th show this morning. more of our continuing coverag of former president donald trump saying he will b arrested this coming tuesday next, on velshi.

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news this hour, this morning donald trump posted on his online social platform, trut social, that he expects to b arrested on tuesday, based o leads from the manhattan da' office to be clear, there is no other sign of leaks or any indicatio that trump will be indicted, and the manhattan da's comment

has declined to comment. also, earlier this hour, house speaker kevin mccarthy weighed in on trump's claim. mccarthy tweeted quote, here w go again an outrageous abuse of power b a radical da who lets violen criminals walk as he pursues political vengeance agains president trump. and directing relevant committees to immediatel investigate if federal funds are being used to subvert ou democracy by interfering i elections with politically motivated prosecutions joining me now, nbc news congressional correspondent, julie tsirkin, and sam stein i back with us julie, how are members o congress reacting to this news if at all? >> yeah, well, so far, jonathan, we've only really heard from allies of the former president including from congresswoman marjorie taylor greene, who is actually open and aiming t beat trump's potential running mate in 2024, and she reacte to not only this news, but t mccarthy's directive, that

house committees investigate this potentially local investigation into the president, which is, of course so hugely significant and sh is saying quote, mccarth proves again through his leadership, the hous republicans will not tolerat the democrats weaponization of government and political persecution. you can see who mccarthy i appealing to when he made this tweet, made this statement, yo could see just how muc influence and pull some of the hard right members of his part have at this moment. as garrett told you earlier, the weaponization committe already exists under judiciary committee chairman jim jorda who, by the way, retweeted mccarthy's tweets, and that to his spokesperson, and i have not heard back on specific tex they are going to take on this it's very obvious that now which is hugely, hugel significant, mccarthy is going to use these house committees, federal committees, to look at something that is happening at the very local level

just so much influence trump continues to have over thi party, also just quickly here, jonathan, at leaks that fonda, a member of trump's leadership team, and it's also congresswoman from new york, putting out the statemen saying this is politically motivated. she is calling on democrats fo quote, taking down the leading republican presidentia candidate. so all of these threats coming together here in a big momen on capitol hill. notably, we have not heard fro other members, more moderate republicans, including, of course, minority leade mcconnell in the senate. he had some harsh words he traded in the past with th former president we are just going to continu to stay on top of all of this. >> nbc news congressiona correspondent, julie tsirkin thank you for that sam, we talked about thi earlier, the significance of speaker mccarthy's tweet what does it say to you that speaker mccarthy is throwing i with trump on this >> i think this is just

furtherance of a relationshi tie between the two men that has been sort of solidifie overtime there was one notable poin where it looks like it could fray, right after january six, but then, as you recal jonathan, it was mccarthy wh went down to mar-a-lago in the days after that's. essentially, he resuscitated trump's standing within th republican party, visiting him at his home, taking a pictur and posting it trump owes to a large degree his speakership to trump he has not joined the chorus o other republican leaders including mike pence and mitch mcconnell, who have condemne trump to this day around january six. he has been very careful about that in fact, it was mccarthy who decided to lead all the footag of january six, all th security footage, against th capitol police as wishes, to tucker carlson so, the fact that mccarthy has come out this morning with the statement saying that they

should investigate the investigators, in essence, i doesn't shock me this is where he has bee politically for sometime now what it says about the state o the republican party, you ca read into that is there going to be potential ramifications for how we vie these types of legal proceedings and in such, yeah. there will be. this is where mccarthy has bee for sometime >> all right, politicos sa stein, thank you very much for being with us this morning that does it for me. thanks for watching, m colleague alex witt picks up our breaking news coverage after a quick commercial break

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