you gotta go on the offense, you can't just play defense al the time >> mehdi, great to see you enjoy the rest of your evening coming up on ayman, the gop' blind defense of trump republicans. rushing to his side. they are not even sure wha they're defending. plus, call chris woman, zo lofgren a former member of the january 6th elect committee, i'll get her reaction to trump's arrest production. and his attacks on the manhattan da then, the critical elections case that could drasticall affect your voting rights. and it's all thanks to republican gerrymander, or i north carolina i'm ayman medina, let's ge started. ♪ ♪ ♪ there is a lot of new news tonight in the trump manhattan da investigation, today animis be see the former lawyer michael cohen said that he has been asked by the manhatta da's office to serve as

rebuttal witness on monday >> now, this morning i receive a whole slew of phone calls, from journalists asking me i i'm going to be back to th da's office tomorrow, as a rebuttal witness to whoever it is that they're bringing they're tomorrow whether it' before the grand jury or it' just to meet with them for a interview i'm not sure but, ye i was asked to make myself available. >> the witness michael cohen's rebutting, nbc news ha confirmed that attorney, bob costello, who was once a legal adviser to michael cohen wil testify on monday before the grand jury looking into th 2016 hush money payments, made to adult them star, stormy daniels. trump's attorney is, asked the da for bob costello, t testify. late last night after trump' surprise social media post predicted his tuesday arrest

we learned that manhattan da alvin bragg, sent a message to his offices employee assuring, them that efforts to intimidate them would not be tolerated. it's not every day that such a important log forsman office feels compelled to assuage the fears of his staffers. and yet republicans continue t defend donald trump. and attack alvin bragg despite there being no charges filed. and no indication that charges will be filed. let's break down a couple of these gop notions. new hampshire governor, chri sununu says that brag is building sympathy for trump. senator lindsey graham says, alvin bragg quote, has don more to help donald trump ge elected president than any single person in america today it might be the case in some circles, but does not mean alvin bragg should not follo the rule of law? alvin bragg shouldn't be dissuaded from fulfilling hi elected duties just because republicans might feel sorry for him but far worse than those takes

is what mike pence said today, remember, when you hear this nothing has even happened at >> the fact that the manhattan da thinks that indicting president trump's his to priority i think it tells you everythin you didn't know about th radical left in this country it feels like politically-charged prosecutio here >> let's be clear here, th radical left, while, it's lazy shorthand almost as laz as woke. that means absolutely nothin nowadays republicans use it when they have nothing of substance to say. but what's bigger than that, i mike pence wants to call the situation politically-charged. despite not knowing anything none of us know what alvin bragg will do. it's all a reaction to one man trump, posting on social media nothing more pardon the pun, it's a sad indictment on the republican party. kicking off tonight show i

lisa rubin, and msnbc lega honest, david cay johnston visiting lecturer at college o law, and glenn kirschner former federal prosecutor an msnbc legal analyst. great to have all three of you with us. glenn, let start with you. first, let me get your reactio to this news we got today. about tomorrow's grandeu schedule, michael cohe standing as a rebuttal witness for bob costello who's also cohen's forme lawyer how do you see that playing out? what's at play here? >> it doesn't surprise me, ayman, that they may b inviting michael cohen back to shed some light on what bo costello said. at one point in time whe michael cohen was thinking about basically flipping breaking away from donald trump, beginning to tell the trut about his own crimes, th crimes of donald trump bob costello was dispatched, t try to keep michael cohen back into the fold. all tell, you if i were prosecutor and i got to di into a guy like bob costello i the grand jury, boy, i have

whole lot of fun doing at people may not know tha often prosecutors well a grand jury cases exhaustively, what mean, by that they'll put ever witness before the grand jur that they believe has relevant evidence not just relevant evidence tha might incriminate the target of the investigation, an forward the investigation, but potential defense witnesses. for, example of i wa investigating a murder case, and i got wind of a define might offer a bogus alib witness. i was gonna make sure that i put that bogus alibi witness before the grand jury, so could create my entire blueprint for the trial in the future that's what i feel like is going on here. and if i were the prosecutor i'd welcome bob costello wit open arms and i would recall michae cohen to set the recor straight >> it seems like that's what he's doing we'll see how this plays out b the end of tomorrow. lisa, i want to ask you abou what mike pence said they're breakdown for us, ho

alvin bragg is simply followin legal procedure here in trump' case >> bob costello reportedly i coming in tomorrow, not at the request of the manhattan da' office but at the request of trump' attorney, there is a provision of new york's criminal procedure law, that allows defendants not only to ask for notice when they might becom the subject of an indictment and to appear themselves, bu to also make a similar request when they are the subject of the criminal, charge are they're about to become th subject of criminal charges. they can make that request t have a witness on their behalf come in. in terms of what mike pence is saying, that this is politically, charged, again al go back to what you said in th introduction this is politically-charged in part because of donald trump's own making not because of what he's saying on social media. but because he and his legal team inserted bob costello int the grand jury proceedings tha

the manhattan da was going along with smoothly. until bob costello got involve for two hours. >> david, you boone reportin on trump's finances, you hav the best insight of all the ri -- about what those finances look like based on what you know, in you history reporting on, this wha do you make of the strength of alvin bragg's potential case here >>, while we don't know ho he's gonna shape the case. the number one issue i see for all the prosecutors, is how ar you going to define the case you plan to bring. a lot of things can file charges about, but you want to have something that' rock-solid i think that's why you'r seeing jack smith, federal prosecutor interview apparentl every single employee, gasse of mar-a-lago who had access t donald's wombs, where they found classified documents alvin bragg is doing the, same thing he's making sure that defense madness was maybe cockamamie, story comes out of

nowhere. and muddy the water. he wants to have a very clea case, i've watched cases particularly when i wrote abou great lane theories, ago in th l.a. times or the failure of police t interview every witness, at car crash, or a little boy was killed, resulted in acquittal. because witnesses came forward with - da wasn't prepared for >>, so pointed out tha costello also represents rud giuliani in the fall and count investigation, and he's also representing steve bannon, how do you see costello' involvement in trump's legal troubles impacting this case i new york >> i think going back to wha glenn, said if i were prosecutor and i got the opportunity to take bob this tell us testimony tomorrow, i' certainly exploit the fact tha bob costello is a message an trump, world eight ways from sunday he's a longtime associate of rudy giuliani, as you, mentioned he's representin giuliani not only in the ongoing fulton count investigation, but als

representing him in th southern district of new york' ukraine investigation. that's the investigation tha stems from our both, france -- , so his involvement like trum world, we haven't even got t bannon in the contempt o congress case. it's just so deep, long-standing, that hi credibility could be easil tarnished to for donald trump to take t social today and call bo costello, the most important witness in this case it's borderline laughable, given that he has his ow incentive structure here and it has nothing to do wit solely telling the truth about michael cohen. >> what would you say to critics, who are looking a this perhaps left a little bit of skepticism and, saying this case is a bit small. it's not worth the tim resources. it may appear to be politicall motivated. >> any violation of the law is worth pursuing but you know, at its while placed criticism i've maintained, for a ver long time now, donald trum

violated federal statutes, he' a federal problem and that should involve a federal solution that looks like federal indictments. but let's face, it the department of justice ha lagged behind. it's unfortunate that states are being made to go first local district attorneys, it looks like they're gonna be th first ones to cross acute criminal former president of the united states. i think that is law enforcemen turned on its head i think the fed should hav gone first, now seen another posed by donald trump, tha feels a lot like what he poste on december 19th, tellin everybody to come to d.c., and protest, will be wild. now he's posting something ver similar, i'm about to be arrested on tuesday in manhattan, protests take our nation back. i really find it head-scratching to put i mildly that the feds continue to la

behind, but you know, lot good for the state and loca district attorneys, who ar stepping up and trying to hold donald trump accountable, at least for some of his crimes >> david, i want you to weig in on that you've been around for about seven years, talking about trump, hush money payments i want you to reflect what the moment we find, ourselves an how we went from this affair way back in 2006, to thi weekend. more former president trump is tweeting, a posting abou getting arrested, talk to me about the significance of this moment that we find ourselve in >> well, remember, when th billy bush tape came out wit the crude comments, th republican suddenly saying,, only made a mistake, we need t do something this issue came up so did some email issues and it was a diversion and donald, is a master, exa master contras, he is the most successful con artist in the history of the world and now, what he's trying to d in rallying his followers, and

trying to rile people. office again, a diversion. he's terrified of bein indicted he's terrified of being in handcuffs. even if it's in for five minutes. and having to be fingerprinted and mugshot. ed that's the core thing you need to watch here, i don' know that his support is going to survive these arrests we've already seen that hi numbers are dropping in number polls despite his claims, that the strength is growing ever day. a key thing to remember abou donald, he just makes it up -- the substance of what donald tells you is how much money he has, how great he is at golf he just makes it up. that's a >> reminder for us al to wait and see what happens this week. and not to believe anythin he's posting about on hi social media lisa reuben, david cay johnston, glenn kirschner, thank you for your time tonight. after the, break our conversation continues wit congressman zoe lofgren, forme member of the january 6t select committee

but, first jessica layton' here with the headlines. >> stories we're watching this hour vladimir putin is scheduled to meet with chinese president, xi jinping. in moscow tomorrow the leaders are expected t talk about the ongoing war i ukraine. the two-day state visit will b she jinping's trip to russia since the full scale invasion. of ukraine the meeting comes after puti made a surprise visit to the russian-controlled city of mariupol ubs bank is buying rival ban credit suisse for 3.2 billio dollars. the swiss president says tha recent banking turmoil had destabilized credit suisse, an the deal was needed to calm th global banking sector. the city of miami beach will b issuing a curfew starting at midnight tonight after two deadly shootings during spring break parties this weekend two people died while a thir person is still in critica condition. and those are your headlights. i'm just escalated more ayman with ayman mohyeldi after the break. and homemade barbeque sauce.

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donald trump's posts, claiming will be arrested on tuesda without any evidence, you have a unique perspective on th power of trump's words what did you think when you sa it >> well, i was concerned the last time he asked peopl to protest, a mob attacked the u.s. capitol so, that's a concern, we don't know whether he will in fact b indicted, but to call out hi mob, or followers is a concern in fact, the fact that speaker mccarthy had to say today. that he was against violence means that i'm not the only on who's concerned about this >> glad you brought that point up, it seems like he was tryin to walk back his own statement yesterday and terms of cooling down the intensity that he helped amplify i talked about this with m panel before the break but i'd like to ge your take on home th republicans generally have bee

reacting to trump's post he hasn't even been charge with anything and as you jus mentioned kevin mccarthy announcing that republican will investigate any use for federal funds that are used to facilitate the provision o justice by saw - across the country that's his words not mine. and this comes as the hous oversight committee is going t investigate the january si committee, that you were a par of >> well, it's disgracefu really for kevin mccarthy, he secon in line to the presidency. as speaker of the house, to sa that he is going to interfer with prosecutors who are doing what they think their job call them to do is highly improper. i can't recall a time when that's ever happened before. for political leaders to try and intimidate a prosecutor is just wrong i don't know what this case is about other than what i read i

the paper. it wasn't something that the january six committee looked a but i do know this, if a prosecutor feels that he or sh has to file an indictment, because they believe beyond reasonable doubt that a crim is been committed. it's not up to us in the congress or other electe officials to try and undercu what they're doing it's not what the rule of la calls us to do it's really pretty pathetic. >> i want to draw on you experiences something you said as a judiciary committee member, a former house impeachment manager, a former member of th january 6th committee. you've been talking about ho donald trump has avoided accountability for a long, lon time i want to play you a bit o something that you said back during the first impeachment watch this >> i would like to note, the argument that somehow lyin about a sexual affair isn't of

the city presidential power. but the misuse of presidential power to get a benefit something doesn't matter if lying about sex, we could put stormy daniels case ahea of this. >> you mention stormy daniels, the hush money payment they're almost as a joke, ar you surprised that this no might catch up with donald trump, and it might be the first time he's held accountable for committing a alleged crime? >> i don't know. i was actually referring bac to the - clinton impeachment wher republicans tried to war flying about sacks into a high crime or misdemeanor i'm still trying to figure tha went out as i understand, from readin the paper, what the district attorney is looking at is no simply a falsehood about wha he did, but a failure to account for a proper way and counting it as a legal expense

which would then be ta deductible it's not just lying about sack it's the other ways that i was being treated. >> before i go i want to ask about special counsel jack smith's investigation into wha i think a lot of peopl considered to be the mos egregious of donald trump' crimes the january 6th insurrection -- smith's recent targeting o people close to the presiden on january the six, people lik monica trump, jared kushner, i quote, a signal to som observers. that the investigation may b nearing a conclusion can you draw in your experience, being on the 16 committee, wha do you make of that reporting, and with that be a fai assessment that if you'r getting to that inner circle you're probably coming towards the end? >> well, i don't know. the investigations work from the troops up to the top and that's what we started wit

assistance in the like and ended up with th principles most prosecutors do the same thanks so, if he's now getting to ivanka and jared and people in that category it's possible. but he hasn't told certainly the january six committe members. and he hasn't made a announcement and that's proper. if he has something to say he'll say it in an indictment. otherwise, he shouldn't sa anything >> my earlier colleague, glenn kirschner, was expressin disappointing with the case of the department of justice ha been moving when it comes to holding donald trump accountable compared to stat of, like we're seeing in georgia and here in manhattan. what do you make of that critique, has that apartment o justice been moving at a slowe pace than you'd like to say? >>, well i think they should b further along than they are. we don't know for sure, but it looked like they weren't investigating all the things that the committee had looke into until after we done so. and they kind of wonder why, why the delay.

but it looks like the specia prosecutor is moving quickly a this point, and i think th sooner that it's concluded either there is an indictmen or they decide there's not a indictment i think the better the public needs to know whether something is going t happen or something isn't and having it delayed serves n real positive interests. although, obviously he needs t be careful and make sure he ha all the facts. >> so lofgren, always pleasure, thank you so much fo your time this evening we appreciate your insights. >> anytime >> the international crimina court issued an arrest warrant for vladimir putin but the top contender for th republican presidentia nomination,, well they wan eramica to stop aiding ukraine ♪ ♪ ♪ no matter how much i paid, it followed me everywhere. the high interest... i felt trapped. debt! debt! debt! debt! so i broke up with my credit card debt

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unlawful abductions an deportation of children from ukraine to russia. that according to th international criminal court for that, it's issued an arres warrant for the russia president. but to the republican party' presidential front runner is apparently they don't care enough about an alleged wa criminal, or his illegal invasion of a sovereign ally and it's causing a fractur rift within the gop. we know donald trump stands on all, this helping ukraine isn' in the united states's interest, and if your president, you should be able to magically an the war. our florida governor ron desantis, while, he went eve further this week. calling the war a quote, territorial dispute. these views from two of th gop's biggest name signal major shift from isolationis for a party. that's known for its hawkishness on the globa stage. republican senators like lindsey graham, roger wicker and marco rubio all called out rhonda sanchez for downplaying the war. rubio in particular has ha

some sharp words saying that it's obvious for rhonda santas doesn't deal wit foreign policy every day a governor of florida. let's bring in our sunday panel, david rohde, msnbc contributor an executive - and christina greer, associate professor of political science at florida university. great to have you both with us david, what do you make of desantis's ukraine comment, an the divide it's prompted withi the gop, referring to what's happening in ukraine as territorial dispute? >> lock, it shows that donal trump's influence, and in some ways his transformation of the republican party i was surprised by desantis' response he clearly thinks, and polls show, there's a big chunk of the republican base that's increasingly isolated. and it doesn't see russia as a threat and that's a message tha donald trump has been pushin for six years at this point. and frankly, tucker carlso

also with fox news has adopted this position as well. it's not a territorial dispute it's a war of aggression there is a struggle betwee authoritarians like vladimir putin and between the u.s. and europe on ukraine right now. so, i'm surprised that it' amazing that thi transformation in th republican party >> it's incredible to thin this is the republican party o reagan that once wanted to stand up to the ussr at th height of the cold war christine, i want to play fo you will what vice president kamala harris on a show earlie this week. take a listen. >> when you've had the experience of needing an understanding the significance again of international rules and norms. and the importance of th united states of america standing firm and clear, about the significance of sovereignty, territorial integrity, the significance of standing fir against any nation that woul

try and take by force. another nation if you really understand the issue, you probably would no make statements like that. >> do you think it is a matter of understanding the situation as the vice presiden eloquently said? there and if, not is desantis' position a positive or negativ for him? >> desantis is really trying t position himself as a leader who is going to tie it all together all these things, his larger argument is that americ has been weakened by thi wokeness, that we can't seem t find by crtc, by its diversity and because of that we need to go back to being strong again. he's essentially, giving a version of make america grea again, in this isolationis fashion. , so many of the members of th republican party sadly wan america to be this group - that agrees with nations lik russia that can just come in, tak

over when you listen to the rhetori of the republican party, the leaders of the republican party, the desantis's, the trumps this is what they're espousing sadly, we don't have enoug members of the republican -- this is actually not a road we should ever go down. we remember how we were in world war ii, we know that i doesn't end well for so many innocent civilians but they're so afraid of the dynamite that they have in donald trump they don't know if desantis ha a chance, they're sittin quietly on the sidelines o these two men take their party in the wrong direction for the entire country >> david, help me reconcil something here you had this ne axios poll that shows that fou and five republicans want th u.s. to remain the world's leading superpower but fewer than half of the support giving ukraine weapons and financial support to sav itself from russia's invasion. how does it make sense how is the united states i their eyes, remain a superpowe and remain influential and

remain a leader on the world stage. but not help ukraine defen itself from russian aggression >> i'm sorry to give this to word out sir but again, it's donald trump in many ways, he was the kin of have it all presidency, you don't need to even engage in diplomacy all around the world you didn't need to deplo foreign -- u.s. troops anywhere, and trad agreements he would just re-write these trade agreements, they talked about what china issues with mexico, with the border and it was all painless. and i think those, false promises from donald trump they have impacted a segment o the republican party yes, they think we can be th most powerful country in the world. but standby when russia invade one of its neighbors it's extraordinary to agai vladimir putin is an indicte war criminal no. and you still have donald trum and in a way ron desanti

saying, it's not a big thing and again, it's an amazing shift in the republican party. >> what i was gonna say quickly, i love how you have these toug talkers like mark gordon - calling out ron desantis, bu remaining silent about donal trump. i think it tells you everythin you need to know about how afraid they are. of donald trump. not so much apparently o criticizing ron desantis a this point dave and christina, stic around with a lot more t discuss. ahead democrats are accusing the chair of the house oversight committee of coordinating with laerwys, for donald trump we'll break that down for you. tell me about their frequent dry eyes, which may point to dry eye disease. millions of americans were estimated to have it. they also tell me they've tried artificial tears again and again, but the relief is temporary. xiidra can provide lasting relief. xiidra treats the signs and symptoms of dry eye disease. don't use if allergic to xiidra. common side effects include eye irritation, discomfort or blurred vision when applied and unusual taste sensation. why wait? ask your eye doctor

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a conversation about the new chair of the house oversight committee on this program. someone you may know, jame comer. we talked a lot about hi craving in partisanship, w thought it would be a one-off. little did we know tha commerce tenure has been s prejudiced, so one-sided, that

we've had to cover his antic every week sense and this week is unfortunately no exception house democrats are no accusing james comer o coordinating with lawyers with donald trump to stop trump's longtime accounting firm mazars, from producing evidenc related to trump's tax dealings days after that accusation was made, oversight democrat released a new report alleging that trump and his family, failed to report nearl $300,000 worth of gifts from foreign governments. during his time in office. as commerce aims to be taking step back unnecessary trum probe, surprise, surprise us he's wrapping up his investigation into president biden and his failing. we pressuring the pressure department rounding house an that's the gators access t some of the biden family i banking activity report. -- you can believe it calme claims that a possible trump indictment is an attempt t distract from those efforts.

>> it almost looks like it's a effort to detract. but at the very least, it's an example of a two tier system >> comer, of course, offered zero evidence for that claim let's bring back my panel to talk about this, christina, ca you explain how halting a prob into trump's taxes, an launching one into biden's financial activities, makes an judicial sense geo do you think even comer himsel sees that a proxy here >> no, ayman, it's buffeting i so many, ways we know that s many democrats especially have been frustrated. no one's really digging into all the financial-ness doing of not just donald, trump bu his entire family. now they enrich themselves and their entire tenure. while they're washington and lee,, c and subsequently being continuing to do so once the

left 1600 pennsylvania avenue. the biden investigation if there is something there it may be a substantia conversation but it definitely seems as though it's a deflection it's partisan. and it's just not what i needed right now it's not focused on who it should be focused. on which is the vast corruptio of donald j trump. >> david, republicans complain when democrats wer investigating trump, that they weren't focused on the issue that americans care about. how does this help inflation which they promised to combat. how does this help medical dru prices, how does it help anything >>, look omar thinks that help republican - winning back the white house i guess. it's purely partisan, it's really obvious and what's striking here i that he has stopped th democrats that have team i these documents from mazars.

from trump's accounting firm and one of the things th democrats found that courtes of documents from mazars was that ten foreign, the allege allegation is that somehow china secretly controls th biden family while this maze are shows that the ten foreign countries paid $750,000 to the trump hotel in washington while donald trum was president. that includes saudi arabia malaysia, qatar, and of course china. it's a real money goin directly to the trump family business while he's presiden of the united states it's a criminal investigatio into hunter biden now, joe biden has released his tax returns, there's no sort o evidence leading to this conspiracy that comer is talking about. at the same, time he shuttin down investigations into clear payments to the trump family through their hotel. that happened while donald trump was president. >> the hypocrisy is absolutely

stunning let me play for both of yo this clip of fox host, bil hammer, of all people callin out comer for failing to provide the dirt on hunter biden. watch. >> it's rather incendiary, we'll see whether or not you'r on to something. again, five year investigating. nothing just yet >> nothing just yet. how bad is it when the republican propaganda network, fox, is calling out that guy james comer, for failing t deliver on hunter biden? sorry, i apologize i wanna get both your thoughts but christina, go ahead? >> just briefly, eamonn, som republicans are starting t recognize -- that they're pulling the strands jared and ivanka - looking at children. they have a lot more in thei docket than hunter biden ever. well so obviously th republicans love - they're making it random

things like about barack obama obsessed with hunter biden i the laptop, et cetera. it's all out of election we need to stay focused. we saw jared kushner at th olympics, we've seen how muc money they may, that's jus from the hotels. but even once they've left the office, deals that they're still making, we saw how the ripped off the american public the secret service paying to stay at trump property the frustration that i think s many democrats specificall have, and, sadly not enoug americans half is that donald trump for those of us who have lived in ne york long enough, he's alway been a grift or, a scammer , so his time in d.c. was no different. and it's not just, time it's the entire family of crimina enterprises. that are taking money from the american people. when you have someone, mik like omar, who is essentiall trying to deflect. and eight and a bet the trum family getting away with these crimes it really says something about the state of our democracy

and i say this all the time on msnbc, or in a frightening moment in our democratic republic >> i agree with. you david, final thoughts fo you. if you lost fox news, who do you have left? >> you don't have suburban voters and this is the problem. they're appealing to the base. and hunter biden conspirac theories i agree, absolutely with wha was just said. i think friendly republicans should be talking abou inflation, that's how they could've performed - they didn't talk about that. they're not talking about th economy. and things that i thin independents and suburba voters care about. they can fire up the base as much as they won but there's a pattern now of them losing national elections over an over again when they just focu on their far-right base. >> when they just focus on hunter biden's laptop. david rohde, christina greer thank you so much. we greatly appreciated a always up, next a major update on a critical redistricting cas that we've been covering o this program for months.

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my most important kitchen tool? my brain. so i choose neuriva plus. unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators of brain health. to help keep me sharp. neuriva: think bigger. >> this week the north carolin supreme court heard oral arguments in a major gerrymandering case that could have significant implication for voting rights. here's the thing, the cour already ruled on this case jus three months, ago back then th court to lean the left with a to 3 divide favoring liberal

-leaning justices and it ruled that the congressional lines drawn by state republicans wasn't illegal partisa gerrymandering but during the midterms, the court shifted to the right and when those justices were seated, suddenly there wasn' an opening and an extremely rare move the north carolina supreme court announced that it would re-hea the case surprise, and if the justice ruled differently this time, new congressional map the stea of abuse would - possibly with as many as leaning districts and as few a three democratic-leaning lines ultimately, this case is about who gets to make redistricting decisions and it could hav nationwide consequences becaus this case is als simultaneously before the u.s. supreme court. and with the north carolin justices do will likely affect how the nation's high cour handles the matter the perfect person to discus this and more, john veasey at, oh the new president of th

national democrati redistricting committee. john, great to have you on the show i appreciate your time i need to get your thoughts on the north carolina supreme court re-hearing thi redistricting case and just how unusual, ho bizarre that is. >> thank you for having me on. we truly appreciate you having this conversation with you viewers -- created this organization in 2017 we knew we had a long road ahead. i'm not sure we knew we had th road ahead that we currently see. because now we see tha basically a perpetual error of redistricting that we're currently living through we're trying to gauge, and you're seeing this in nort carolina i want to touch o this because what we see now for the past 40 years, are the ferris mountains in this country and that's reall impressive, it's exciting, it' a testament to our work. for the past several years however, or what's happening i north carolina's unprecedented and extreme. you're starting to see

republicans really latch out with the reality that they'r trying to put into a box enough to run in districts, th biggest concern that i have as these new republican justice that take control and seemingl have no -- reality of trying to stop. in and making new decision that they haven't had before it's really a problem. and it's not something you see every day, it's very, very concerning >> correct me if i'm, wrong, again this is a case that' also in front of the u.s supreme court, it's known as more - and that docket. we've talked quite a bit about that case, and the independent state legislator theories, - as it obtains to what we saw i 2020 with the presidential election -- if it rolls differently th high court's case could become moved, right >> it's unclear.

i think it's up in the court struggling with the court recently aske for more briefings, as a new thing that we're gonna have ne submissions coming up tomorrow and it's not clear what th courts gonna do i think the board i starting to travel, both lawrence with the reality of the deep partisanship that's riding through each one. and trying to run off each other. and figure out how best to manage the process because what's happening, that path of children to re-hear a case, is already been decided this is obviously -- a nationally it's no different than that north carolina stat supreme court decided that they're gonna re-hear, nothing's changed. >> nothing's changed >> sorry i >> was saying fundamentall nothing has changed in the cas itself it's the justices that a change it's not the case. >> when we turn to you t another state, you've got th supreme court over and wisconsin, state supreme court there on april 4th, excuse, va

voters there i believe we'll have to decide, the possibilit that a three conservativ majority can flip in that stat supreme court. you've been on the ground in wisconsin for several races. that set the stakes for what's at play in the state there >> it's really important places because they have the states - in april and that's abnormal, it's quit a different than most states where they have a normal election cycle we've been engage with these graces for a long time and trying to monitor them lift them up and make sure the nation as a whole is looking at them with the importance the need to see that there is really a great justice, a future justice, atlas runnin right now in wisconsin, tremendous candidate, most importantly, a candidate - and that's the core of thi issue.

that we're currently startin to deal with where justices especially if they're talking north carolina uganda, they run as a partisan which is fairly new for nort carolina it really skis the way tha they're able to perceive democracy. >> let me get your thoughts, finally, if i can about 2024 you just took over the nationa democratic redistricting committee, a very importan role i would say given wha republicans are trying to do on a state level what plane plans you have fo the next election cycle? >> i appreciated i knew there's so much mor work to. do we have 11 active lawsuits, we still have two of, whic we've talked about, won two of which are in the supreme court a level we've acted -- really draws that are gonn take place in states like ohio north carolina, and texas is currently redrawing some of th state legislative districts. the reality here is th redistricting's current.

it's something that some folks historically may think is a tenured thing, ever tenure activity, currently finding yourself in a plac where this is gonna have a impact in 2024, and it'll have a man tacked well beyond that. >> and maybe every ten, year but it certainly fought ever single day in this country, in some quarter, in some way, i some shape thank you so much. we appreciate your time an insights >> thank you for having. we've got more coming back next, don't go anywhere. ahhhh... with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary spraying flonase daily gives you long-lasting, non-drowsy relief. (psst psst) flonase. all good. [♪♪] if you have diabetes, (psst psst) it's important to have confidence in the nutritional drink you choose. try boost glucose control®. it's clinically shown to help manage blood sugar levels and contains high quality protein to help manage hunger and support muscle health. try boost® today. these suits are here to make sure that anything i say is legally indisputable.

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films presents recall, the refrain. -- aftermath of the controversial 2016 sentencing of stanfor swimmer brock turner subsequent removal of aaro frisky and the role of the criminal legal system in seeking justice for sexual assault victims, immediately following the film - speak with the filmmakers abou the social justice issue raised in the documentary. watch the recall, refrain, nex on msnbc it is also streaming o peacock. thank you for making time fo us, make sure to catch a man back with us saturday at eight sundays at nine, follow us o twitter, tiktok and instagra twitter, tiktok and instagra at eve (light music) (hooves trotting)