about my involvement in stephen smith's tragic death that continue to be published in the media as i grieve over the brutal murders of my mother and brother, i love them so much and miss them terribly. buster murdaugh who took the stand in his father's trial saying the baseless rumors are false. i unequivocally deny any involvement in his death, and my heart goes out to the smith family. sandy smith says she doesn't know who's responsible for her son's death. >> but i want to know why you did it, and i want to know who you are. >> reporter: she wants stephens body's exhumed and an independent autopsy performed. >> when it comes to an exhumation, there are pitfalls you have to look out for, namely preparation of the remains. >> reporter: despite the potential hurdles, sandy smith says she remains hopeful.

>> peace, not closure. it will never be closed because he's forever gone. >> reporter: catie beck, nbc news. we have a lot to cover in our second hour of chris jansing reports, let's get right to it. >> at this hour, after a weekend of deadly violence, miami beach imposed a cur few overnight and this afternoon, a vote on another curfew. what it means for thousands upon thousands of spring break visitors. the world's top climate scientists issuing a survival guide for humanity. you've got to hear their dire warnings and the major course correction they're recommending. republicans circling the wagons ahead of a potential indictment of donald trump, with one of the former president's top rivals blasting new york's prosecutor. and as donald trump awaits the grand jury's decision, his

hand picked witness just arrived to appear before them. might it have an impact? our nbc news reporters are following all the latest developments. but first, i want to get to vaughn hillyard, who's covering new york where robert costello arrived a half hour ago. we know michael cohen is expected to show up today. why these two men, and why today? >> reporter: we know that michael cohen is on hand in lower manhattan to potentially come in at the request of the manhattan district attorney alvin bragg to potentially rebut whatever testimony robert brings forward. the two went their own ways in 2019. he has since remained a close ally of maga world, representing the likes of steve bannon on numerous occasions. he is currently representing rudy giuliani in the fulton county district attorney's investigation and efforts to overturn the 2020 election.

i want to be clear here about a top line when we're talking about michael cohen, and his significance as a witness in all of this. michael cohen never went to trial meaning evidence that federal prosecutors at the time suggested that they had had around his case. stemming from his relationship with donald trump, the public never saw that potentially what could be now used as corroborating evidence to pair with michael cohen's testimony now against donald trump. it's important from the sdny prosecutor's sentencing memo in 2018, ahead of michael cohen's sentencing, they wrote, quote, as cohen himself has admitted, with respect to both payments, he acted in coordination with and at the direction of individual one. now, there is a litany in the public record about cohen lying in the past. it was at the heart of the charges against him, covering for and acting on behalf of donald trump. michael cohen, though, at one point said that donald trump was unaware that he had paid off

stormy daniels, he and trump had an arrangement to take care soft this sort of thing. after his guilty plea, cohen said he was lying for and at the direction of trump, and that trump was aware of what the payments were for. this hits at the heart of what this grand jury is looking at and what could potentially take place as part of the criminal proceedings here. because michael cohen says over the courses of the years in which he was found of lied, in which not only the federal prosecutors suggested he had a pattern of deception but the congressional investigator said he lied to them too. but michael cohen in past years has made the case he has now testified for hundreds of hours under oath to make good on the lies of his past there in which he says he covered for donald trump. now, it is up to not only this grand jury but ultimately a potential jury if the charges were brought against donald trump to determine whether michael cohen is bringing a strong case and whether his

corroborating evidence to back up that donald trump knew ahead of the election that these payments were being made to stormy daniels to silence a story that could have had direct implication on the presidential election, chris. >> vaughn hillyard outside of mar-a-lago, thank you so much for that. let's go to capitol hill where we have our capitol hill correspondent, ryan nobles, standing by. look, there has always been a core of support for donald trump. it seems to be growing within the halls of congress and elsewhere. tell us about it, ryan. >> reporter: that's right, house republicans in particular seem to be rallying around the former president. the house speaker kevin mccarthy has empowered jim jordan, the head of the judiciary committee to begin an investigation into this investigation. he sent a letter today to alvin bragg, the district attorney requesting him to testify before congress to discuss whether or not any federal funds were used as part of this investigation. this obviously has a big impact here on trump's support in washington but also it has broader implications for the

2024 election as well, and his chief rival, ron desantis, who is expected to run for president, currently the governor of florida, getting some heat from trump supporters because he didn't speak out quickly enough against this prosecution or potential prosecution. while desantis was asked about that earlier today, and this is what he said. >> i don't know what goes into paying hush money to a porn star to secure silence over some type of alleged affair. i can't speak to that. >> reporter: if you didn't catch the subtlety there, i'll blaze it and put a siren next to it. that was ron desantis trying to find a way to attack the potential prosecution while at the same time reminding everyone the core controversy here that donald trump may or may not have been involved with a porn star which may be a way to separate himself from the conservative voters that will determine who the next republican primary candidate is. there is so much at play here, chris. there's political consequences,

legal consequences, and of course presidential politics at stake here, and you're seeing it all play out in realtime. chris. >> extraordinary indeed, ryan nobles, thank you for that. and it's not just lawmakers preparing. law enforcement officials are meeting today to talk about security in case of an indictment. former cia director john brennan is standing by with more on what to expect, and we have that coming up. in the meantime, the u.n. secretary general today gave what is perhaps the most dire urgent warning on climate change yet. after the release of a chilling new report. >> humanity is on thin ice, and that ice is melting fast. the climate time bomb is ticking but we must move into warp speed climate action now. we don't have a moment to lose. >> with me now, nbc news science report e denise cho, the climate time bomb, what else is in this report? >> yeah, chris, the main take away of the report is that time is running out to secure a

livable future for everyone on earth, and i think that emphasis on livable is very important here. we know the consequences of climate change are already playing out around the world. there's not a single person on the planet whose life isn't in some way affected by global warming, but the key thing here is to avert the most catastrophic, the most devastating impacts of things like sea level rise, extreme heat, flooding, and food insecurity, and that's what this report is really trying to hammer home. the other thing that they do highlight is that this goal to limit warming to 1.5 degrees celsius, this hallmark of the paris climate agreement, it's something the u.n. secretary general mentioned and said this is slipping away, and antonio guterres said it's achievable, only with a quantum leap in climate action. that really shows the dire situation and the scope of the action that's going to be needed in the years ahead. >> denise chow, thank you for

that. city officials in miami beach, florida, are deciding what to do to stop the kind of spring break violence that erupted over the weekend, with fatal shootings on two different nights. nbc's sam brock is in miami beach with more on the spring break violence. sam. >> reporter: miami beach is in a state of emergency. there was a curfew that expired at 6:00 a.m. this morning, and it comes after the mayor of miami beach pleaded with those coming down here not to bring firearms. that was all he asked. there were not one but two fatal shootings that prompted the state of emergency and a curfew. over my shoulder, you see ocean drive right here. all of this activity is happening really on this strip. one of the two fatal shootings that occurred happened not more than two blocks from where i'm standing in front of a restaurant, the second one on ocean drive. in each instance, one person was killed, another injured. authorities are trying to get their hands on something we have

seen play out over and over again. last year at this time, same weekend, third weekend in march, there were two fatal shootings. what does the cur few mean, at 11:59. all patrons have to be out of business. delivery from restaurants and hotels, can continue service to those who are guests. what happens from here, a meeting from the miami beach commission. they will decide whether or not to implement the same measures for thursday through monday, and it's very likely, as urgency in the situation, the mayor acknowledging 70 firearms have been impounded so far in the first three weeks of spring break. in miami beach, sam brock, nbc news. controversial broadcaster, alex jones owes more than a billion dollars to sandy hook families. a new report says as he keeps spending, the families are kept waiting for their money. plus, xi jinping with a huge show of support for vladimir putin at a critical point in the war in ukraine. how far is china willing to go.

plus, with mixed economic outlook, the new numbers on just how hard it is for the average american to get by. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. you're wg reports" only on msnbc ♪♪ get $1500 purchase allowance on a 2023 cadillac xt5 and xt6. ♪♪ visit your local cadillac dealer today. ♪ ♪ get directv with a two year price guarantee. ♪♪ the only thing i regret about my life was hiring local talent. if i knew about upwork.

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more breaking news from new york where donald trump's former fixer, michael cohen, just arrived at the manhattan district attorney's office. there he is in that suv. cohen has said he is there to be a rebuttal witness to follow

robert costello, his former legal adviser who are a source close to him tells nbc news will work to undermine cohen's credibility in the case against trump. we've learned he's planning to testify that cohen is a convicted liar who has been embellishing allegations to get revenge against the former president. that, we are told, will be the substance of his testimony. and today, law enforcement agencies will be needing to discuss what security might be needed ahead of a possible indictment of trump. that security planning took on a higher priority over the weekend after trump called for his supporters to protest and take back our nation. an ominous echo of his language leading up to the january 6th insurrection. john brennan is with us, former cia director, and msnbc senior national security and intelligence analyst. it's always great to have you here. what goes into this kind of planning for security. understanding that if there is an indictment, it's something

that's never happened before against a former president and current presidential candidate. >> well, chris, as you point out, this is rather precedent setting in terms of a potential indictment against a former president, and the challenge here in particular is that given that donald trump himself is fueling these tensions and concerns, and as well as members of congress, and his supporters and advocates, this potential indictment, it has nationwide implications. and it's not just going to be localized, maybe in new york, but i think the concern of security officials and law enforcement officials across the country is bringing charges against the former president would lead to protests that could spill over to violence. i think the challenge is to make sure the local and state officials will interact with federal officials, the fbi, field offices and others to make sure any information or intelligence they might have about planned violent protests

are going to be shared among those agencies and departments that have the ability to try to protect the safety and security of local citizens. >> so even though our reporting is what's happening particularly around that courthouse and throughout manhattan, we should not assume that there aren't places all across the country, cities, maybe even small cities and towns where they're making their own provisions. >> well, it's clear that donald trump still has quite a bit of support throughout the country. and in many states across this country, you have pockets of individuals who believe he's being unfairly treated and are listening to a lot of propaganda that is coming out that i think is misrepresenting the facts because it's clear that the manhattan d.a. is really trying to discern the truth, and i'm glad to see that he's bringing additional witnesses in and to talk to the grand jury. we have to make it very clear that none of us knows the extent of the evidence as well as the strength of the testimony that's being presented, but it does appear as though the grand jury process is coming to a close,

and i do think it's prudent for the law enforcement and security officials to take whatever measures they need in order to, again, deal with any type of events and demonstrations and protests that might erupt. >> the manhattan d.a., alvin bragg has reportedly told his staff that their safety is a top priority. you could certainly understand it if there's a nervousness among people who worked, for example at our courthouse, the department's security plan would include a security perimeter around the courthouse, and several hundred additional officers available to help manage any of those possible protests you mentioned there, but also in locations around the city. is this a situation of hope for the best but you always have to be prepared for the worst. >> yes, you want to make sure you put in place those contingency plans that if things start to develop, and get out of hand that you're able to bring in additional resources to be able to try to prevent any type of wide scale violence or

disruption of local activities. so, yes, i think the new york courthouse is going to be probably the locust of some of these protests and demonstrations, and i know that the nypd and others are, you know, among the best as far as trying to deal with these types of developments. but it is very very worry somebody, and that's why i think it's outrageous that there are so many individuals including in congress who even before a grand jury decision is made and a prosecutorial decision is made that they are already seeking to try to intimidate the prosecutors as well as to stir up the sentiments and feelings that may, in fact, spill over into the streets, not only of new york but throughout this country. >> nbc's ben collins, he does a lot of work online, and he's been following some of these groups that have been involved previously in some demonstrations. he says that what he's seeing is more scattered. this is not a focused call, even though we did hear donald trump

or at least saw him on truth social saying protest, protest, protest. the ap writes that the ambivalence of trump supporters suggests that the hundreds of arrests that followed the capitol riot, not to mention the convictions and long prison sentences may have dampened the desire for repeat mass unrest. do you believe that potentially the large number of prosecutions and the large number of people who have gone to jail in the after math of january 6th has had an impact to discourage people from thinking about it again? >> well, yes, and as you said, before, chris, we're all hoping for the best, and i would like to think that a lot of individuals are not just going to impulsively react to whatever charges might be coming out. and that recent developments have really shown to so many americans that doing things like this, and taking action into their own hands and carrying out these acts of violence, you know, again, the images of january 6th i think are still imprinted on, you know, american citizens minds. i'm hoping they're not going to

do anything. they can express concerns and sentiments and feelings, but by doing something that is really going to challenge the local law enforcement and security officials, that's something that i do hope more and more people of influence are going to be calling on the various, you know, supporters and their constituents, not to do anything that is going to be disruptful of the law and order that i think this country prizes so dearly. >> let me ask you finally, do you have confidence from the federal level down to individual cities level, that they have good intelligence, that they'll have a good handle on something that might happen mere? >> i don't know, chris. i know there's a lot of hard working women and men throughout this country in all different organizations, departments, state, local, federal, that really want to be able to bring to bear the intelligence that's going to allow us to prevent any outbreaks of violence. and so therefore it's a question of whether or not the information is going to be collected, whether it's going to

be shared in a timely manner, and whether or not the appropriate mitigating steps and measures can be taken to, again, protect the lives and property and safety of american citizens and persons. and so therefore i do think that clearly there is an effort now being made to try to ensure that when and if any type of charges come down, they are as ready and prepared as possible. >> former cia director, john brennan, we always appreciate you taking the time to be on the program. thank you. thanks. we've got breaking news out of washington, just as we were talking about this, four members of the oath keepers were convicted of conspireing to obstruct an official proceeding in connection with the january 6th attack on the capitol. and the jury is still deliberating on even more related charges. nbc's ryan riley is following this trial. ryan, what more can you tell us? >> that's right. we had four guilty verdicts, involving sandra parker, connie megs, and william isaacs.

this is the third oath keepers trial we have seen. this particular trial did not involve the same serious charges as previously of seditious conspiracy but it was nonetheless, one of these oath keeper trials. it's one that a lot of viewers might not necessarily have heard of. the big attraction i would say probably at the federal courthouse right now is the trial of the proud boys which has been dragging on for a very long time, and that sort of has that new flare to it. we have seen this is the third oath keeper trial. these cases are continuing to churn every day. we're continuing to see new sentences every day. there's another bench trial happening involving a defendant who was dressed up as george washington, for example, this week, and there's sentences coming up this week including against a neo-nazi riley williams, who's going to be sentenced on thursday, and was charged in connection with the theft of nancy pelosi's laptop.

these cases are going to continue to churn for a very long time. doj has signalled a thousand cases are in the pipeline. if they hit that 2,000 number, they'll have arrested about 2/3 of the people who committed offenses that they could have been charged with that day. it won't be everyone but they'll get a significant chunk of people and they're going to be focused on the people who committed violence in the upcoming years. >> ryan riley, thank you for that breaking news. meantime, sandy hook families might never get the money they're owed from the controversial broadcaster, alex jones who courts ordered to pay up for lying about their children's deaths. he says he's bankrupt, but according to a new report, that's not stopping him from spending big anyway, you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. only on msnbc. finally we can eat.

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historic lawsuits over jones' lies about the 2012 shooting. a times review of financial documents and court records filed over the past year found that after declaring bankruptcy, jones transferred millions of dollars in property, cash and business deals to family and friends all potentially out of reach of creditors. nbc news has not independently confirmed that reporting. i want to bring in shan wu, a former federal prosecutor. is this a case where bankruptcy law could actually protect alex jones? >> absolutely. he's being very clever about this. but i also think that properly applied, the bankruptcy law could help bring justice for the families. within the bankruptcy law, there's something called fraudulent transfers, and from the times reporting and from the looks of it, it seems like that's what jones is doing. he's transferring assets, reducing what he has, and he's not supposed to be able to do

that. so that's something the court could do something about. and the court could simply say this is going to be clawed back, and the families have priority as creditors for that judgment. there's something that can be done here. he's certainly trying to be very manipulative and deceptive in trying to get rid of that money. >> there's another part of the "new york times" reporting that really stuck out. quote, the family's ability to get anything remotely close to the jury awards is inextricably tide to mr. jones' capacity to make a living as a purveyor of lies, including that the shooting was a hoax, the parents were actors, the children did not die, that ignited years of torment and threats against them. are there any safeguards in our legal system to keep what got him here in the first place from happening again? i mean, if there's no incentive, if he feels like he can hide his assets, give away his assets,

and never really pay the price, why not keep doing what he's doing? >> yeah, that's a really problematic issue. i think we're seeing that more in this climate, it's a textbook example of making so much money from disinformation. trying to regulate that is hard. we don't have a lot of precedent for that, especially in this digital age because it does run up against issues like the first amendment, he wants to express his opinions, et cetera. it was great that they brought a defamation lawsuit to try to reign that in. when your expressions get to the point of defaming other people, then you can be reigned in that way. overall, this is a naughty problem. he could, even if he was forced to liquidate his current business, he could start something new doing the same thing. it's not something we're set up to regulate, accept through the

old fashioned method of suing people on a case by case basis. >> good to have you on. vladimir putin has been on his own since russia invaded ukraine. he just got a big boost from xi jinping. just how much is china willing to rock the boat with the west? plus, french president macron's government just faced a no confidence vote. we've got results and what the political turmoil means for his presidency. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc he subway. an all-star menu of delicious subs. like #6 the boss. meatballs with marinara and pepperoni. i get asked so many times - who's the boss? if you get the boss you are the boss. try subway's tastiest menu upgrade yet.

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we are very closely following the high stakes meeting in moscow between vladimir putin and china's xi jinping who becomes the first world leader to visit since putin was charged with war crimes for abducting ukrainian children. putin hailing the relationship between the two powers and adding that the two leaders will discuss beijing's peace proposal to end the war in ukraine. nbc's matt bradley is following

it all for us from kyiv, ukraine. as you know, this comes one day after putin visited mariupol, the ukrainian territory that saw some of the fiercest fighting of the war. what can you tell us about the complex set of moves at play here? >> yeah, this mariupol visit was interesting. for a lot of folks this looked like a triumphant kind of victory lap that putin was making. it comes a day after he was in crimea which he annexed in 2014, and it looked like it might have been tied to the visit of another important visit that you also just mentioned, xi jinping to moscow. when you're talking about the xi jinping visit with putin, that's going on. it looks as though for ukrainian, they're wondering, like diplomats and observers throughout the world, what is going to come out of this meeting. everybody wants to know what kind of friends putin and xi

jinping are going to be. xi jinping had announced a peace proposal or a list of ideas but these were rejected by key western allies in washington and london, and throughout nato, but going forward if xi jinping does offer weapons to moscow, and that is the really decisive issue here, that could be a sea change in global international relations, not just for the war in ukraine but for strategic issues throughout the entire world, because that would align xi jinping with putin against not only ukraine, not only kyiv, but also against nato and most of the west in a much more formalized way than we have already seen. we can already tell that for vladimir putin, he is desperate for those sorts of weapons. it could be a decisive factor in the way the war is conducted here, not because beijing and china are necessarily going to bring all of that much hardware to bear for advanced technology but we have seen the types of countries that vladimir putin has been courting, trying to ask

for weapons, the likes of iran, and north korea, countries that are not exactly technological juggernauts. except for in the case of iran, drones that have been pelting the country for the last couple of weeks. this could be a big change depending on how this all shapes up. >> matt bradley, thank you for that. xi jinping's high profile trip highlights the growing role of china in world affairs, trying to play peacemaker in ukraine and across the middle east. for more, i want to bring in david ignatius, foreign columnist, and associated editor for "the washington post." so good to see you, david. in moscow, what can you tell us about beijing's calculations right now as it considers further support for russia? >> so xi is poised to assume what he hopes will be a greater role in the world stage. he's just brokered a quite

interesting between iran and saudi arabia. he goes to russia on a fraternal visit, obviously a psychological boost for vladimir putin. i was reminded of a get well visit to an ailing friend. putin doesn't have too many friend in the world. i'm sure he's glad to see xi jinping. whether xi will end up offering weapons as matt said from kyiv, it's the big question. my own personal guess is no because xi has been positioning himself as a would be peacemaker. he's brought a chinese peace proposal to russia. nobody thinks that's going to fly. it may be the beginning of some longer conversation. i was struck, chris, by the way in which this visit really shows how isolated vladimir putin is. every other week, somebody shows up at the white house to see president biden.

when was the last time you remember any prominent world leader visiting moscow to see vladimir putin. so i'm sure this visit is welcome. just how much he gets out of it beyond the psychological boost, we'll have to see. >> we talked so much about his isolation. we talk about how his economy has been hurt. and yet he continues, he shows no sign of not continuing. so a psychological boost is one thing, but what does he really get out of this, and how isolated is he or really, david, how much does it matter? >> he's able to keep fighting on his own. one thing russians have shown through history is that they're good at suffering, the first year of world war ii fight against the nazis, the soviet army was a mess, generals at each other's throats. they came back in what proved to be a decisive victory.

that's one reason putin wants to link the war in ukraine with their success in world war ii. they are isolated. they are running out of weapons. they are running out of money. those are all factors. i think the russians keep hoping that they'll have a breakthrough in eastern ukraine at the horrific fight in bakhmut. hasn't happened yet. so for the moment, the psychological is important in warfare. no question that putin got a boost today with a visit from xi. the ukrainians were today communicating very clearly that they hope the chinese will remind putin of the importance of standing by the u.n. charter which has been at the center of chinese diplomacy. if china holds to that line, putin is not going to have as close a friend as he hopes. >> david ignatius, great to see you. i have a little bit of breaking news, john kirby from the national security council just addressed what the administration hopes comes from this visit between putin, and

xi. take a listen. >> we hope the president xi will press president putin to cease bombing ukrainian cities, hospitals and schools to halt the war crimes and atrocities and to withdraw all of his troops. we are concerned that instead china will reiterate calls for a cease fire that leaves russian forces inside ukraine's sovereign territory. >> we're going to continue to keep an eye on that briefing, and bring you anymore news as we learn it. we have breaking news out of france at this hour. president emmanuel macron and the government have survived now narrowly multiple no confidence votes in parliament, ensuring his controversial pension overhaul plan will become the law of the land. macron invoked special constitutional powers to sidestep national anthem and

raise the retirement age. the revolt in the streets seen in the halls of parliament today. some lawmakers walked out on macron's appointed prime minister, elizabeth born as she tried to make the case for retirement reform. meagan fitzgerald is on the ground in paris for us. not a big victory for macron. better than some had expected. where does this go from here? >> reporter: you're absolutely right. the opposite, if the two motions were to have passed, the prime minister would have had to resign, and cabinet members as well. now this is the law of the land. just within the last hour when it was announced that the first motion failed, the crowd of protesters here really erupted with anger. i want to pan over to show you. the protesters have gathered here. this is a common sight. this is what we have seen for the last several days, since macron pushed through the legislation on thursday. the area where we are, just in the shadows of the eiffel tower,

fortified by police, corralling the crowd, making sure they stay in the area. we suspect we'll continue to see these protests as we have in the last several days. they have turned violent. they stormed the city hall. they had conflicts with police here. protesters throwing projectiles at police. police launching tear gas, french citizens are angry because it's the culture here to have this work/life balance. they take their vacations, they enjoy their 35 hour a week workweeks, and they also say they pay more in taxes. so the gift, if you will, the prize is being able to retire early at 62. that is not happening now. they will retire at 64. he's the former minister of the economy and saying that the current plan as it is, the pension plan is in jeopardy of running a deficit, which is why he passed this through, bypassing a vote in parliament

because he knew it likely could have failed there, making this now the law of the land. so, again, protesters are extremely angry, they're likely going to continue to demonstrate. on thursday, we are expecting a national strike which, again, chris, could further bring the country to a halt, in addition to the union striking. as you know, we're talking about tens, you know, thousands of tons of garbage that is collected along the streets of paris. we have seen it along the mediterranean, as unions strike as a way of expressing their anger, chris. >> thank you for that. it's getting harder to get by with debt soaring and fewer people saving nationwide. with costs going up, how bad could things get for the average person or family? plus, afc richmond heads to 1600 pennsylvania avenue. yes, that is the cast of ted lasso visiting the white house right now. the very serious topic they're taking on next.

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financial troubles to come, there's growing evidence that the average household isn't ready, isn't preparing. all laid out in an nbc report on how savings accounts are shrinking and debt levels rising leaving more consumers on shaky footing. americans spent half of the savings they accrued during the pandemic. credit card balances jumped $61 billion to a record high at the end of '22, and auto loan debt is up 94 billion. i want to bring in nbc senior policy reporter shannon pettypiece who spotlighted this data for us. shannon, what is driving people to spend more than they have, save less than they did? what is happening? >> from talking to economists and financial analysts, there appears to be a few things going on. number one is inflation, which we obviously have all been talking about for more than a year now. has just really been pressuring people, and wages just are not keeping up.

while wages have been increasing, they're not going up enough to keep up with the pace of inflation. at the same time, you have people who built up their savings, paid down their credit card debt during the pandemic with stimulus checks, just because they were spending less on experiences, and now there's this sort of built up pandemic spending spree that some people have gone on, whether it's taking that vacation they put off or wanting to have a really big holiday because they hadn't gotten together with family in a couple of years, dining out more or putting off costs like buying a new car. people were putting that off because car prices have been high, and they can't do that anymore. that's forced people to dip into the savings, spending it down, and putting more on credit cards. as a result, financial analysts say the consumer is really in a weaker position than they were a year or two ago, and it's troubling because of the concerns that are still out there about a potential economic

downturn. >> and we don't like to use the "r" word too much but there are concerns about recession. there are top economists that suggested that the chances of at least a worse downturn or even a recession are going up. then what? >> yeah, well, and even a slow down, an uptick in the unemployment rate, even if we don't get in full recession territory could mean millions of people are out of work or starting to struggle to pay their bills, and they're not going to have that savings cushion they would have, and they're going to have credit card debt that's maybe at, you know, a 20% interest rate, and another factor going on out there, and related to all the banking news that's been in the news the past week, you know, these concerns in the banking sector, economists say are going to cause banks to pull back on their lending. they're going to get a little bit tighter about who they lend money to. interest rates are obviously going to go up. for people who are going to need to take on debt, whether it's to buy a new car or put something

on a credit card, that's going to cost them more or might not even be an option if they don't have good credit. another thing that's going to squeeze consumers, could cause spending to draw down, and in turn snowball and have this effect of causing companies to cut back on workers and labor if they see their sales start to fall. >> shannon pettypiece, great reporting. thank you very much. and moments ago, one of the most famous and optimistic fake sports coaches in the world. ted lasso briefed reporters in the white house press room. the topic of the visit was serious, though, the importance of mental health. the actor, jason sudeikis, flanked by other famous members of his cast, and ahead of the visit, president biden tweeted out this photo of the iconic believe sign made famous of course in that award winning comedy just outside the oval office. nbc's white house correspondent, carol lee joins me now. the biden administration has made mental health a priority,

so what are they hoping that the visit today by the ted lasso gang can help them achieve? >> well, chris, i think they're hoping that it draws attention to some of the steps that president biden and the biden administration have taken to try to address mental health. this is something that the administration has made a priority. as you'll recall, president biden took office amid the covid-19 pandemic when mental health became real for a lot of americans. it's something that then he put resources towards trying to deal with, particularly when it comes to children. there is an effort to put more mental health professionals in school to help states expand their suicide prevention efforts and things like that. jason sudeikis when he spoke about this in the white house briefing room, cast it as an issue that's relevant to everyone. take a listen. >> no matter who you are, no matter where you live, no matter who you voted for, we all probably, i assume, we all know someone who has -- or have been

that someone ourselves actually that's struggled, that's felt isolated, that's felt anxious, alone. it's actually one of the many things that believe it or not, that we all have in common. as human beings, right? and so that means that it's something that we can all, you know, and should talk about with one another. >> he went on to say one of the simplest things people can do to try to combat mental health, is ask each other how you're doing and take the time to listen. he said it's important and not always easy to do for people to ask for help when they need it, chris. >> as they say, believe. carol lee, thank you so much, appreciate your time. that's going to do it for us this hour. make sure to joining us for "chris jansing reports" every weekday 1:00 eastern time right here on msnbc. i see katy tur is in the house. "katy tur reports" is up next. "katy tur reports" is up next. r for the first time is a unique challenge. -so you think you can help? -i can try.

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good to be with you, i'm katy tur. it is shaping up to be a hugely consequential week here in new york city. d.a. alvin bragg could be on the verge of doing something no one has done before, indicting a former president for his involvement in a hush money scheme ahead of the 2016 election. right now, a grand jury in manhattan is hearing from a witness who is arguing against an indictment for donald trump. robert costello, a trump ally

and