tv The Rachel Maddow Show MSNBC March 20, 2023 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT
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our best to try to take care of each other as my own personal teeth belief, that's something everyone on our stage agrees with, that's when we talk about in the right, around the editing room, everything in between. we just want to emulate these make believe folks will be all played eight to richmond, and the way they take care of one another. as the which fulfillment of the show, aside from the plane, coach but he's goes being professional footballers, that's a big part of the show. >> some wise words from coach livestock to take us off the air tonight. on that note or should goodnight i'm mehdi hassan, in for stephanie ruhle for all of our colleagues across networks of nbc news thanks for staying up late. really happy to have you here. do you want to see a cute picture? cases in the either cold, or of
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course, and this is a picture of a guy, i'm not saying the guy in the picture is himself cute, honestly, what would i, know not my area expertise. but i think just as a picture, regardless of the guy, i think as a picture this is kind of cute. just in terms of composition. in part because it's kind of got a swirl effects. like on the upper left side of the image, we've got his eye that's looking kind of whisky, kind of head downstream, but then on the lower right side of the image he's got the biggest mark, heading straight up towards his ear so the whole thing is kind of a swirl you know? just as a picture as a mugshot in particular i think that's not bad. that person is the attorney general of the great state of texas and that is in fact his mugshot. his name is ken who's indicted in booked into the collin county jail in texas on felony securities fraud charges a few years ago, those felony charges
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are still pending against him, he was still under indictment on multiple felony counts, but it hasn't held him back, since that mugshot was taken, since he has been under felony indictment, mr. ken paxton has run for reelection as texas attorney general twice and he has won both times. eventually, presumably he will go on trial on multiple felony counts but, at least so far texas republican voters don't mind that he's under indictment. and judging from the look at his face, doesn't seem to be bugging hit much either. even if you just want to stay in texas as a whole bunch of these this is the very nice mugshot not the composition isn't good mirror but the tile looks fantastic this is a mugshot who's indicted in 2014 while he was serving as governor of texas his name is rick after he was indicted in 2014 he got fingerprinted he got this nice mugshot taken with a perfect not in his tie
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just a few months later he announced he was running for president of the united states while he was still under felony indictment in fact for the duration of his 2015 presidential campaign rick perry was under felony indictment that did not drop the felony indictments until a few months after he dropped out of the presidential race but he was so still no big whoop don trump went on to name a secretary of energy, for the united states, which is a fact that is still just as maze and to behold, as his mugshot is lovely. also stain in texas, do you remember tom delay? it is the majority leader of the republican party, in the u.s. house of representatives, he had to resign that job, to have this mugshot taken after a warrant was issued for his arrest in 2005. as most shots go though, it's kind of another nice one. not as nice as this one though this is former democratic vice presidential that nominee and
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democratic senator jon edwards. that's his mugshot from 2011. looking good, john edwards not looking as good this is dan rostenkowski, who's president ways and means in congress for 13 years, italy had to stop doing, that because it's time for him to stop in congressman, and start being prisoner number 25538 on the list. it happens. it happens a lot. he was bernie kerik the new york police commissioner under mayor rudy giuliani, until the ex -- president george w. bush tried to make the sky homeland security secretary of the united states before that had to end in favor of the new designation. -- we happens all the time in our country so much, so that we have kind of a thing in mind when we think about when elected officials mugshot looks like i mean, there are ones
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that are more special than others, congressman james traffic and mugshot, will always be remembered as a hairdo hall of fame thing and then a congressman thing wow. it's still really something, all these years later but apart from him, i mean, there is something familiar enough, we both see members of congress, and governors, and senators mugshots, that we recognize him as a look, right? it's a thing. we've seen a lot of these. and none of these mugshots, none of this and these arrests, arraignments, fingerprinting, of these public officials, cause the world to end. the arrest of these governors, and senators and congressman, ended up posing zero threat to our republic. as it should be so, why would that be any different now? yes if former president donald trump is indicted, in federal
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court in d.c., where in state court in georgia, when state court in new york, or anywhere else yes it would be unprecedented for there to be an indictment issued against the u.s. president or former president. but, we should also be real about the extent of exactly how historic this would be because we arrest public officials all the time in this country and under the law, there is nothing magical about being a former president that's not a thing under the law when your former anything, you are then just a citizen again, and you're subject to all the same laws as any other american i mean, the justice department did tie itself up into knots, over multiple decades, sort of contorting itself into all sorts of crazy logic puzzles, they contend with the possibility, that a sitting president would commit crimes while in office, and we get charged and convicted for those crimes the justice department, absolutely went nuts trying to figure out the implications of that who would then be in charge of the country, how much
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would it hurt the country to have the head of the executive branch wrangling with his own defense and a legal process, and then potentially trying to govern from prison, if he was convicted and sentenced to prison, while still serving as president. but all of that concern, at the justice department, about this hypotheticals. all that worry about a criminal serving president, that is specific to a currently serving president. which is why they instituted a doj rule, it said okay federal prosecutors can't indict someone why that person is serving as president, but that is the only rule. and it's a very narrow rule. that justice department ruled against federal prosecution, only applies to the single person who is the president, well that person is serving as the president. i mean, even if you're serving, currently, as vice president wears a supreme justice, a cabinet, official or whatever,
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fine you can be indicted if you are a person who's running for president, you can be indicted, or or if you are person who is formerly president, it's fine, we can be indicted, there's no rule about that, because there's no special consequences about that for the country, the only installation we have ever given a single person for prosecution, is for the person, while they're serving as president, that's it. and so, we there is nothing technically, improper, or rule breaking, or illegal, about a former president facing charges. even if it hasn't happened before, it doesn't break any rules. we but why hasn't it ever happened before? why has no one else before now, considered a criminal indictment against former president? is it because it's so dangerous, it's so unwise, it's so, somehow, against our system, to prosecute a former president?
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or, it's just because there's never been one before, who has lived this way. i mean, yes, from a historical perspective, an indictment against a former president's unprecedented. they given that we're talking about this particular former president, donald j trump, can you honestly say to yourself than indictment is a surprise? the first thing anyone ever knew about his business practices, as when he and his father, had to settle with the justice department, decades ago, over accusations, but they legally refused to rent apartments to black people >> then by the time he was entering politics, he was paying another gigantic settlement a 25 million dollar settlement over fraud claims, we guarding his fake university that he put his name on. then his family charity was shut down, and find millions of dollars. we --
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as campaign chairman went to federal prison on fraud charges, that his campaign chair went to prison as well and as other personal lawyer had his own laces suspended, as longest serving political adviser was convicted on multiple felony counts, and sentenced to federal prison, for witness intimidation's white house senior adviser, was arrested on the yacht of a chinese billionaire picked up on fraud charges. and it turns out that proceeding, the chinese billionaire himself been arrested on fraud charges and as president he himself is impeached twice which is a record with more impeachment votes against him from his own party than any other president's history even since, then his company which is literally called the trump organization was convicted on multiple felony fraud charges and his longtime cfo, isn't rikers, as we speak.
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,,,,,. ,? >>, or speaks in a way you would like to go with this kind of a life record. why would you expect the criminal justice system activity that surrounded him's entire life, suddenly evaporate when he entered the new phase of his post-public office life? no, america has never seen the indictment of a former president, we did elect all around to be president. and his life, business, and political militia.
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-- like seasonal decorations. happy equinox. but, whether you like mr. trump or you did not like him. it is both fair play, and relevant, and it's starting to feel important to remember that our politics broadly is absolutely full of political officials, current and former public officials, both party, neither party, every state in the union. we are full of current and former public officials, who've been charged with all kinds of crimes, and convicted of everything imaginable. members of congress, and senators, and governors, even if serving attorney general, like these guys, but also state legislators, the city mayors, cabinet officials, white house officials, it happens. it happens all the time. and while that's bad, it turns out we've had a lot of crooks in public office, that doesn't feel great what's.
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good about it, is that we know to deal with it when it happens. it doesn't break our system, it does not break our country to bring serious charges, against public officials, and former public officials. even these exact charges that are reportedly on deck against president donald trump in new york, you will recall, this guy, a former senator a democratic party vice presidential nominee he was brought up on charges almost exactly like what's been reported about former president trump trying to resist brought up on charges for lying about in concealing a hush money payment that was made to cover up an alleged affair before an election. those exact charges were brought against a democratic vice presidential nominee, and former senator, and you know what? you forgot about it, because the country wasn't exactly rocked to his foundations with another serving vice president, went up against a 40 count
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felony indictment, for crimes committed while he was in office when i did a podcast in a book about, it ida blew everybody's mind, because we had completely forgotten about it. because, when it didn't create a lasting problem for us as a country. does not best bend the constitution, let alone break, it to indict criminals for crimes even when they allege criminals someone who's been elected to a very important job. it is one of the middle, public will enforcement in this country, and we do it all the time. and there's no reason why former president should be magically immune from the same legal system, that just in the last three years, has put handcuffs on at least 13 state senators, 17 state representatives, one serving congressman, one former congressman, the delaware state auditor, the north carolina republican party chair, the insurance commissioner of georgia, and too many city councilors and mayors to count.
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it happens all the time it really does not have to be the end of the world and anybody tell you that if there is an indictment of this particular former public official, there will be a protest like you've never seen before, there will be civil war, there will be a knob unstoppable uprising among supporters, and, violence and all the rest. anybody telling you that that is a consequence of him being, potentially indicted, well, that person may be wishing for that. but, there's no reason that something like that is enough edible. this is not something coming up it is extraneous to a system that we need to invent something new to contend with. the bottom line here is a prosecuting public officials, and former public officials, it happens all the time in the united states of america. and it never engender is violence and it never, in danger as the country and. it doesn't require our legal system, to be fundamentally rethought or dismantled we
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unless somebody wants to gin that up and that is what we are contending with now, with this particular former public official was so far, the reaction among supporters of former president donald trump feels to be very muted at least in the real world -- as other prosecutors office the manhattan acquaint pc news report there were a handful of people who reportedly went to trump tower, today a man, and also to have a gold colored beach club the, where the former president lives in south florida we can buy memberships but not much more than your average trump in the news day. , although that expectation kospi speculation he's going in
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the media. -- there is certainly exciting calls for violence online, they solicited press described is incendiary but isolated calls for civil war in violence, killing people. we do have high-profile trump supporters, like this guy, we do have a mugshot of. disgraced former new york police commissioner, and convicted felon, bernie kerik, now high-profile drums trump supporter. he's not calling for law enforcement to mutiny full-on force and at all levels, to refuse to enforce the law. --
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closely. the machinations of these possible prosecutions, because he's calling for large-scale protest, because we know he's not shy about the impact of violence potentially benefiting him, and the impact of intimidation, in terms of whether or not they can constrain those he perceives as his enemy. we get that. what's worse than that, though, is that if he wants to break the system so. you and beyond just threatening violence, that's something all the other hundreds or thousands of public indictments in this country, have not previously brought to our door, but that's not just former president trump, but republicans more broadly airplane with right now. right now we have republicans in the state legislature in georgia, has themselves a new law by which they empower themselves, to remove prosecutors, in the middle of cases, the republicans don't
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like. we will just -- if all the motion of the prosecutor, sleeve investigation into trump, they filed the motion of a move on a case, while a bill that would allow against the state legislature to remove him in the case, is on the way to the republican governors desk. what do they think will be the outcome there in georgia they did this? they just want to set a new standard, a lot -- prosecutors and george i can only bring criminal charges against democrats. the republicans in the state legislature will take you out of your job, is that they're trying to set up, have they thanked things out of work in
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georgia. so they work like that now, i think he's that change is justified, is the dasha getting shower stuff. something's not on a guy indicted, it's not a, thing every bad thing to threaten limitation impede i kind of get indicted. if you are actually a guy potentially made that, it is gonna get rid of the system by which people get indicted that's a bigger problem for the whole country -- to give testimony, as if they have jurisdiction over him in this matter, as if, as congress, they can somehow constrain him from bringing new york state charges against an alleged criminal. as if they can somehow stop him from putting people on trial for allegedly breaking new york state law. republican house speaker kevin
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mccarthy, is making these threats. against the new york prosecutor, he's encouraging or prove public members of congress, that they can haul in this near prosecutor, to try somehow to stop it. and so yes, we look at all that tonight, and we get some expert help to try to understand it. but we can be clear eyed and confident here, but what is new and what is it. but what poses a challenge to our system of government. and what is our system of government? and, you know, we've all seen it, anytime book official gets charged with a crime, you get that look in their eye, they say it's political persecution, my enemies are just hard to get me because of my position on taxes, where gay rights, or tort reform, or whatever. where they say it's only because i'm so effective as a champion of the people, that's why they're after me. they'll try that kind of argument. but they end up memorable only for the quality of their mugshots. some of them get convicted,
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something that you get acquitted, saw them keep committing more try, and then we get to my shots for the price of one. our system of government can handle, it our system of government can, demonstrably and absolutely and the prosecution of alleged, crimes committed by public officials, and foreign public officials, it happens all the time, it will not, because it does not break us, unless the political right, and support of donald trump, decides that the prosecution that particular public official is reason enough to pick our system of government to break the legal system but not to tense violence in intimidation but by seizing partisan and political control, prosecutors offices -- there's no inherent crisis for
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donald trump politically motivated or otherwise and their charges have been filed, say they somehow already know, that these charges the don't exist, they know their horse hawk, iain illegitimate, because if these, charges which again don't exist, are legitimate, they said the federal government would have to charge trump already now this is an interesting point. the new york investigation into the trump campaign having this hush money payment to build some, star stormy daniels, it did start on the federal level -- the southern district of new york, the prosecutor michael cohen for his role in the hush money scheme, and they got him to plead guilty, even though they had evidence that michael cohen committed a crime, at the request of president, trump and for the benefit of president, trump they never charge president trump, and that was
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flexing for a long time. but we do now, with the benefit of hindsight, we now have clarity on how that came to pass we now know because the u.s. attorney at the sdny right now has spilled the beans about it we now know that trump's appointees at the department of justice ordered sdny to stop the investigation to stop that case after michael cohen was charged according to former u.s. attorney jeffrey berman the trump justice department repeatedly interfered with a hush money investigation for mineral book about it this fills it all out he said when bill barr took control he not only tried to but incredibly he suggested that michael cohen's conviction ought to be reversed barr summon fd and why officials to challenge the basis of cohen's plea and the reason behind pursuing similar
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campaign charges against other individuals so why did federal prosecutors never pursue this against donald trump will estimate why was ordered by trump's appointees to cease all investigative work on campaign finance allegations so now we have these republican congressman these republican committee chairman in congress threatening the new york prosecutors saying how do you get this case they said they refused to get a case with trump's the must be nothing there but we know from the historical record that federal prosecutors didn't decide against charging trump after it deep throw review of the law they were ordered to stop working on it. by trump's attorney general. and so now it's years later and state prosecutors in new york are finally taking this up instead that is not like it
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died a natural death in federal court now that it's in state court and we know about how it's likely to work their donors now is laura jarrett she's the senior correspondent lauren surliness see, it's very much for being here. let me just ask a threshold question a lot of people asked me today, just when it cleared up because i feel like you understand the stuff as well as anyone when for former president trump said this weekend he's going to be arrested on tuesday, meaning tomorrow, and he called for protests and response, is there any reason to believe that was based on anything real? is, it in, fact clear to us that he was just spit balling, that nobody knows if or when the indictment might actually happen? >> it is our best understanding, based on reporting, that that was not based on any substantive conversation, or any sort of tip off, from the district attorney's office.
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if anyone that should happen, [interpreter] based on everything else that's been reported, it hasn't happened or that the grand jury will return one. it is any reason to expect those sort of questions, those foundational questions about whether their foundation at, all is there any reason to expect those prospects changed today? with the sort of surprise witness we saw come in to testify today? >> we saw robert costello come in as a sort of quasi-legal advisor to trump's former lawyer, slash fixer, michael cohen, and his best as we could tell, costello is there for one purpose, which was to discredit cohen's version of events, in front of the grand jury. if in fact you see cohen's
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linchpin, the a prosecution's case, because he's the one who actually makes a payment to storm a stormy dallas daniels, and the days leading up to the 2016 election. if in fact you believe that cohen is the linchpin to this, and this guy comes into say, he can't be believed, he told me a different version of events, soon after, and the feds raided his office. , so the idea being the this was to muddy the waters in from the grand jury. best evidence for why the grand jury did not find, that's hail persuasive, is the fact that michael cohen did not go back in for yet another shot from the grand jury because we know he's not going back again at least according to his lawyer statements today. if in fact the grand jury had found what krystal said to be problematic, or curious, wanted to hear, more you certainly
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could, said please, let us hear more from michael cohen, having to explain all these emails that stalls offering, that is not happening, rachel. >> nbc news senior correspondent, laura, and i are watching this very closely, and this is a still unfolding story, thanks for helping us understand the state of play. of course. all, right we have much more to get here today, stay with us. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. with the money we saved, we thought we'd try electric unicycles. whoa! careful, babe! saving was definitely easier. hey babe, i think i got it! it's actually... whooooa! ok, show-off! help! oh! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ my a1c stayed here, it needed to be here. only pay for what you need. ray's a1c is down with rybelsus®. i'm down with rybelsus®. my a1c is down with rybelsus®.
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covina special jury last year to consider whether former president trump and his allies, brooks georgia state law when they tried to overturn the election results in georgia, and have trump declared the winner, even though he had lost. our special grand jury deliver the report a few weeks ago, in early january, the report reportedly recommended multiple indictments, although we don't know who it recommended for, but today, in a motion filed in court in georgia, lawyers from former president trump, asked the court to quash that report, and importantly, they asked the court to kick the prosecutor, da fani willis, off the trump case. block the report of the special grand jury, and remove the district attorney, who has been leading the investigation. now, you might remember the republicans in the georgia state legislature, have passed a bill both to the house in the senate, that would allow them to remove prosecutors, who do things that republicans don't like.
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we -- ration, is if you're in georgia law, enforcement if you're a georgia we person, looking at georgia republicans glazing this trail through the forest. we what does this mean? i mean, what we're seeing now in georgia, as beyond just the former president, and his supporters, invading against prosecution that threatens him, this is a very fundamental shot at the independents of law enforcement, and essentially, the division of powers in our government. it's not quite a done deal in georgia, because the governor is not yet signed this law, but this is the new millenia, in which prosecutorial decisions are being made in georgia. knowing that this is coming down the pipe. joining us now is michael moore, he's a former u.s. attorney for the middle district of georgia. so there needs to see, thanks for being here. >> i'm glad to be with you. >> let me first, get your reaction to this filing, the
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fulton county investigation, former presidents lawyer filed a motion asking to basically throughout the report for the special grand jury which reportedly recommended more than a dozen indictments. they also want to throughout the district attorney fani willis, who has been leading the investigation they want her in her entire office disqualified from the case. we this is something important? >> i really think they picked a box to match with a ghost. there's not much to be said about the special grand jury report, we don't use special grand jury is very often, we actually have to use a criminal grand jury to issue indictments, so the special grand jury just allowed the district attorney to use subpoena power, to do some investigation, for recalcitrant witnesses in talk to, them find out what's going on, but she didn't have to do it, so essentially the motion today says, well, let's make over for that report in the
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trash can, she can't throw it into the trash can, when -- she doesn't have to do anything that the special grand jury recommended, and, fact she's got complete freedom flick of the facts, to look at the law, make a decision about which individual she wants to bring charges, against and what offense so we're gonna see is gonna be more and more these pretrial motions that's to be expected but again this is kind of meaningless and when they fall back and try to talk about vagueness and the constitutional provisions, in the laws not very clear maybe is abused, they're really just taking a shot hoping that maybe they'll get some appellate judges years somewhere so i don't see much to come from, it but it's interesting they've got to talk, about some of the information that she got, that she would've otherwise gotten,
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more like for the women who to, and makes sense all the time. >> what do you think about this project that's coming out of the legislature the georgia legislature, effectively giving itself the power to stop a prosecution, and they don't like in state court, they make a decision like that based on stated criteria that is very big and all the stuff, what do you make of this you know, i think it's shameful thing about the history of what the republican legislature has done, i mean, when the lines for voting got too long, what did they do? they passed a law that said that people who are waiting in line, can't be able to get water, when the ballots didn't get counted in a way that didn't let them when election.
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where they do this and it will appoint our own special election, to take over the local board, which is ironic given republicans are typically for local control, but they decided here they'll be able to take over the boards of election, now there's a prosecution, and the last election, there's a prosecution investigation into the possible theft of that election, they're passing a law, they said will be able to take that over to with another prosecutor, i think we have to call it what it, is it's racist, and it's not racist because we happen to have a black female prosecutor, it's racist because it is a shot at minimizing, and decrease an influence of the minority vote, here in the state, as a democratic vote, and i guess they're making the decision, somehow, that those voters can't select their own prosecutors, district attorneys are constitutional elected officers, they have discretion in what they're gonna do, i do notice that it's interesting,
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the legislature has yet to pass a law that i'm aware of, that says you, know if we think some legislators not doing what they should, do that we can remove, them quite as easily. so i just think it's shameful, it's interesting to me as well, the one of the lieutenant governors leads the senate, and of course you may remember, his name came out during the fake electoral process, and loan, below hold this session, we've got people having trouble that gunnar, max and finances, and all the other things that go on building businesses back, reena pass a law that make sure we replace investigators, to look at people who are leaders in the general assembly. >> if i'd find out owes potential target in a criminal investigation, i might award myself the power to remove that investigator from his or her job to, it's not that hard to unwind. >> michael more, former attorney for the middle district of georgia, good to have you here. >> it's great pleasure, thank you rachel.
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outstanding debts the cdc is even pushing to give preference for mail-in voting to try people for mandatory vaccines. don't be complacent given your private information to the man. stay safe, and beware of vote by mail. >> absolutely no that is true that is all complete and total poppy if you vote via mail in the not coming for credit card debts there not committee be mandatory shots none of that is true, but in 2020 that call went out to thousands, of mostly black voters and cities across the midwest in the northeast. the purpose of the robocalls not hard to figure, out it was meant to scare black voters, out of voting by, mail may be out of a scare them out a voting at all, as no mystery who's behind it, the names were literally in the rubble call. it's no civil rights organization, it is just a couple of pro trump right-wing activists who actually put their name on the call but what they did there, that was a crime, that was a criminal voter suppression and i can say
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that with confidence, because just a few months ago the two men who made that call, pled guilty to felony charges in ohio, related to sending out those calls to voters in cleveland also in michigan, the same two men are charged with a felony for sending out those calls and detroit, just a couple of weeks ago a federal judge in new york, ruled those calls violated, the kkk act, i violating the civil rights of voters that ruling came in a civil case brought by new york attorney general tish james, who says she wants the two men to pay nearly $3 million in penalties in that civil case, they'll be on top of the 5 million dollar penalty the fcc has already proposed for them which would be the largest fine for robocall in u.s. history. that's how it's been going for those guys. for that robocall they sent out, trying to scare black voters out of casting their ballots, effectively to trick black voters out of illegally voting. well today, new case, same idea,
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and it concerns, in this case, not a robocall but images like these ones. this is from 2016. you see there, it says avoid the, line vote from home, text hillary to this number, vote for hillary, and be a part of history. now down at the bottom it says, paid for by hillary for, president 2016. it's pretty obvious who this fake out is targeted at, it's an african american woman, holding an african americans where hillary sign. and of course, all the claims in this ad are bunk, you can't vote by text message, this ad was not paid for by the hillary clinton campaign, but once you know it according to federal prosecutors, nearly 5000 americans actually follow the advice on this thing and texted that number texted hillary to that number presumably thinking that that was how they are passing their vote in 2016 and that's how they're hillary clinton would be recorded. and because nearly 5000 people
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did that there are now a criminal charges associated with that fake meme. prosecutors contended that is criminal voter suppression. i mean, just as an observer here, honestly, that's how you teach accounts upped of voter suppression to second graders, so it's not hard to see why this became a criminal case, and now it, is today in federal court in the eastern district of new york, a federal court in brooklyn, the right-wing activist who created into seminated that fake, add to try to help donald trump, that ad and others like, it he went on trial, today he's charged with conspiring to spread misinformation, designed to deprive others of the right to vote. given what he did, given the content that is the subject of the criminal case, it's easy to see what prosecutors content. well you might not expect is this has become a cause celeb
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or on the political right. this guy who's been charged with voter suppression scam. primetime hosts on the fox news channel, and twitters najla's billionaire owner, elon musk, have been in vain against this prosecution, as there is nothing wrong with what this guy did. one fox news personality called this trial, the single greatest assault on free speech and human rights in this country's modern history. opening statements began today, the defense says, the defender will be taking the stand himself during the trial, again, trial started today, this is one to keep an eye on. e to keep an eye on.
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[ groaning ] you've got to be kidding me. that's gonna do it for us tonight, thanks for being here, now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell, good evening lawrence. >> good evening rachel. he noted discovered lina sturdy? -- we are watching jen psaki show and i tried your skelly and cream cheese. i discovered that i really am a plane cream cheese guy. i just realized.
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