right now on "andrea mitchell reports," law enforcement preparing from lower manhat÷ó to capitol hill for and unprecedented grand jury decision on whether to indict a former president. we will have a live report from outside the manhattan d.a.'s office. house republicans meeting in orlando. their conference overshadowed by the potential indictment of

their party leader. and divided by the growing feud good day, everyone. i'm andrea mitch until washington. as capitol police here and law enforcement in new york are bracing for a possible indictment of former president trump, multiple agencies, including the u joining me now, garrett haake in manhattan, chuck rosenberg and barbara me1cquade and yamichee1

alcindor. garrett, take us through the updates we got from attorney costello.e1 >> reporter: we got a little back and forth yesterday. we expected all of ite1 would py out behind closed doors.fá prosecutors determined they did not need to hearxd from the secd witness of the day yesterday. what happened instead was testimony from robert costello, a witness put forward by mr. trump's attorneys, essentially on a mission to discredit michael cohen, who has emerged as the star witness to the prosecution. cohen was kept around in case he was needed to rebut costñ prosecutors decided that wouldn't be necessary for the grand jurors.t( nevertheless, after we learned what costello told the grand jury, cohen rebutted it anyway just on television.-xì(lc% here is a little of that back and forth from yesterday. >> michael cohen decided on his own, that's what heñr told us,

his own to see if he could take care of this. he sat with the lawyer for stormy daniels. they negotiated a non-disclosure agreement for $130,000.e1e1 if they want to go after donald trump and they have solid evidence, so be it.e1 michael cohen is far from solid evidence. >> it's a typical donald j. trump play out of the playbook. figure out you can muddy the water as best as you can. denigrate the person, disparage them. >> reporter: that means the waiting day today. the grand jury typically is not scheduled to convene on tuesday. we don't expect them back until tomorrow. we won't know whether prosecutors feel asok they thou need another witness or if they are ready to move forward. there was a planned pro-trump rally ate1 the park behind our camera position. last night, 15 to 20 appeared for that rally.w3 we will see if it picks up today. right now, it doesn't lookt( th

way. >> barbara, what is your reaction to trump's attorney supporting costello going before the grand jury ahead of the potential trial down the road, if there were an indictment, and the decision not to call cohen to rebut him immediately afterward? >> it's difficult to know exactly what happened. i think we can make some reasonable inferences. we know donald trump himself was invited to come testifyjf befor the grand jury. as is customary in new york. he declined that invitation, as isu i think the failure of the prosecutors to call michael ■ did not believe that the case was in any way diminishedx

by the testimony. after all, the job of a grand jury is to find probable cause, nwtt gtp&t beyond a reasonable doubt. theyt( assessed whatever it was mr. costello said, it didn't damage the case so much it was necessary to bring mr. cohen in. >> w3chuck, what are the possib outcomes here for donald trump? >> well, if he is indicted, i think it's -- ite1 seems likely andrea, he is going to have to go before a judge, be arraigned. he willy1 have to be processed. that required photographs and fingerprints.xd those are all rather predictable and flow organically from an indictment. i want to touch on one thing barbara said. a grand jury's role is morefáñr limited. they only need to find probable cause. it's a relatively low standard and appropriately so.

it's not the standard you need to convict someone at trial, which is proof beyond a reasonable doubt.t(e1 probably felt it didn't nee rebut everything mr. costello said in the grand jury about mr. cohen. criminals often testify at the trial of other accused w3 criminals. it happens all the time. if you want to know how a crime was committed, talk to a criminal. if you want to know how a library works, talk to a librå9ñ the governmentw3 won't build it case solely on the testimony of michael cohen. they have to corroborate him.e1 they have to corroborate him.e1 withw3 other witnessesbw)hq) documents. you don't need to go into the grand jury and argue your entire case back and forth. as barbaraq pointed out, the standard is only probable qcaus. mr. cohen, if he testifieti at trial, if there's a e1trial, wi be attackedi9m■ on questions about his credibility and his own criminal past. what the government will do and sensibly, and what they do in trials all over the country

every day, is put on criminals to testify about crimes and then corroborate them. >>e1 yamiche, donald trump, ramping up his attacks, including some of the false claims that we are used to hearing. this was the message at the end of his most recent video. let's watch. >> they know that we can defeat them. they know that we will defeat them.e1 but they're not coming after me. they're coming after you.fá i'm just standing in their way. i always will stand in their way. >> yamiche, the message?;■ seemo prosecutions,e1 what congressiol republicans are going after d.a1

>> if he is indiqtgd, you can imagine this is going to be a top talking point for republicans ine1 their nominati. think about the fact that after saturday, when he said he was bracing to get arrested, it became a question of, what do his potential rivals say? it politically motivated. you had ron desantis say it's wrong do táoáy he made sure to repeat the allegations andt( madexd sure t underscore that this is dealing with an adult film star and donald trump. this is going to be a political issue, for sure. uurj doing what he always does, which is trying to in some ways play the victim. say this is about a witch hunt. but he is trying to connecte@,ht to everyday republican voters and say, first they will start with you but they will somehow come after you. that's part of the appeal of donald trump. they somehow seee1 themselves i donald trump and say when they

go after selectivelyi]5a■ republicans, they might come fo1 me, my job, my community. that's a sticking point. it will be interesting to see how this impacts the nomination. people i'm talking to say this listen to him say, they're coming after me, but i'm going to stand between the prosecution and you. it reminds you of what donald trump has always been doing. >> how troubling is ñiit, barba, that the judiciary chair of the house judiciary and thes7■ oversight chair requesting the d.a. come?

question a d.a. in the middle of a prosecution. >> it'sxd incredibly inappropriate. it is, i think, an abuse of power. there are ways to hold prosecutors accountable when ñ cases that are meritless. we don't know about the merits of the case yet. the court will do that if a juru finds him not guilty, there are ways to discipline a prosecutor. the way not do it is to have thq legislature try to intervene. i think it's a separation of powers issue. i'm sure bragg will decline to answer questions. it seems to me this ise1 design knowing that that is thet( like result and to then --ñie1 membef congress can pound the table an1 say, he won't even come in to answer our questions.t( i think it's i]abusive, e1 pprosecutor. there are other ways to hold prosecutors accountable. >> chuck, there's açó possibili that they could call michael cohene1 as a rebuttal witness t thee1 rebuttal witness o.

>> we don't know and properly so. they will do their speaking in court which is wheret( prosecuts ought to do their speaking. we canfá surmise it's a case abt making false bookkeeping markings. we don't know that yet. charges haven't been filed. when we see the charges, we will know the charges. by the way, if people on mr. ■ok selective prosecution and politically motivated, then you file a motion in front of the judge claiming selectivee1 prosecution. make your legal argument. if the judge dismisses it, so be it. then it was a selective prosecution. i doubt that will happen.e1 there's a place to make that argument. it's not on capitol hill.w3 >> we should point out that

there was the prosecution, different jurisdiction, north carolina, ofok a presidential candidate, john edwards, for covering up -- ae1 hush money payment. different set of facts involving an affair that was acknowledged eventually.t(ok he was acquitted.jf on the campaign finance issue, not on misfiling something. chuck? >> yeah, that's exactly right.ñi >> a democrat.çó >> democrat, republican, i frankly don't care. what they are,."■ what partyi] belong to, if you have the evidence and can prove it in court, then prove it in court. if you don't, then you don't. bragg has to make ae1 decision whether heu it won't just be michael cohen tou

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china's president xi spending his second day in moscow today with russiane1

>> reporter: chinese officials have been framing this as a trip for peace. it's debatable the extent to ■igch china can cast itself in the role of potential peacemaker in a conflict they refuse to rp&l an invas1o

the two sides saying any agreementokñi needs toçó respec legitimate security concerns of each country. they oppose/8q%=9m■ not authorized by the u.n. security council, which is where china and russia hold veto power. it's okunclear exactly the exte to which russiaxd may have boug into this chinese cease-fire proposal. the u.s. has seen it as problematic because it would effec" what's curious here, andrea, is that this is also coming at a time when ukrainian president zelenskyi has signalled that he is willing to talk to xi. there is the chance that their first phone call since the war started could happen before the

end of the week. >> that would be so important as well.e1 thank you so much. joining us now is leon pennetta, former defense director, lpcia director and former white house chief ofçó staff among other posts in government. how dangerous is this growing relationship between xi and putine1? what are the global implication implications? or do you think qxi will not go ahead with that? >> i think it's clear from this meeting thañ?x there are threeu areas that need to be focused on. one is that in many ways this e1 meeting, the summit meeting between russia and china, kind ofu

there's no question, the second thing is that china represents the strongest partner here. putin has been weakened by these war crimes,e1 by hise1 loss of war in ukraine. the fact thate1e1e1 his forces been depleted.u there's no question he is the lesser in this partnership and that xi obviously is the stronger partner. thirdly then, it puts alpe1 big responsibility on xi,á(puáq for china to remain the strongest xdpartner, they have have a strong economy.

what i sense here is that china has to play this balancing role saying on one hand they are a peacemaker and trying to providd peace in the ukraine, but at the same time, that makes clear that they reallyfá can't provide military arms to the russians because thatçó would undermine their peacemaker qrole. secondly, they are concerned thi world would impose sanctions on china, which could hurt their economy. while all of this is taking place, it's pretty clear that china is now caught in a balancing act where it's not clear just exactly what will result from what xi is doin■é8 >> what xi is doing though, hew doesok repj1áq't the global sou, which in terms of population is bigger than thexd u.s. and euro combined. of course, he is making inroads in africa andw3 central americas well, latin america.

at the same time, in thisok balancing act, he is interested in prolonging the war. he does not want russia to lose. he doesn't want the other major autocracy to lose against the united states. he is not so sure he wants russia to win. >> i think that's right. i think that's part of the dilemma confronting xi, because he knowsñr that, very frankly, putin should succeed, it could represent a different kind of world. it would put more pressure on china tou

frankly, right now, the chances u)vv has most of the leverage. if they initiate some kind of offensive in the ukraine, they could continue to push the russians back.e1p,■ put more pressure one1 putin to either withdraw or ultimately negotiate.okñi i think we are atfá a pivotal point in this war in terms of where we go next.fá if zelenskyy is successful, ifl he can put moree1 leverage on putin, yes,lp china can play th peacemaker role. but in the end, it's going to be zelenskyy that will determine the terms of any kind of peace.á we have seen thisçó pattern whe

the u.s. is reluctant toeiitz xd along with tanks, now go along with f-16s and argue abrams tanks were tooe1 complicated fo the ukrainians to manage. now they will try to deliver &a! is this a pattern? should they just do the f-16s now as well? >> we have been through this pattern for a while where there's obviously resistance to providing weapons and then ultimately the united states moves forward to provide these sophisticated weapons.e1 i think we need to provide these weapons to the ukrainians. this is a critical time right now. providing them the abrams tanks juste1e1 means that we are able train them and to give them the capability that would be very important in a maneuverable war in which you are basically a e1

land-based kind of operation against the russians. i think the same is true for fighter planes. i'm ulcd poland is5a■ providing fighter e1planes. we shouldçó consider providing f-16s and training pilots. it's going to take a t(while. but we ought to make the decision to proceed with that. we want to give them the weapons theyñr need in order to be ableo initiate an offensive against initiate an offensive against theu

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indictment dominated the ali, you are covering thenb■ ho republicans. the speaker insisting but there's no escaping donald

trying to move forward on their commitment to america'slp agend on education, energy, banking regulations. but then also trying to move forward withe1 this defense of what mccarthy isñr saying is a two-tiered justice system. he would argue and did over the

they are going into an election year. as much as mccarthy doesn't want to talk about trump and his argument this morning with reporters was that we are the only ones focused there, the republican primary is not going to happen in a vacuum just as session is note1 happening in a vacuum. all ofe1 these things are e1lin] republicans are going to have t1 talk about both. >> if they didn't want to come aveif they didn't want to come to.e1 they could have said it's not appropriate to talk about a pending prosecution. david jolly, a spokesman for bragg i the attacks saying that bragg should focus on crime in manhattan. homicides and shootings are down, murder rate in manhattan is lower than most populouse1 cy s. a xvheye1 go back and forth, wh

is the law and order party going after the d.a.? >> that's right, the irony here. what the d.a.'s office is calling out the lying and misleading and the bad faithok republicans across the country. when kevin mccarthy says, it wad personal money, it was not personal money once heñi bookedt as a business expense. that's at the root of the legal charge that we are likely to find out. kevin mccarthy knows that. he isñi5a■ lying about it. he is misleading the american people. bragg's office is dealing with a level of unprecedented interference. [ ie have learnedñi it was last month when trump lawyers first contacted jim jordan to say, house republicans, please interfere in the manhattan 5a■ d.a.'só[■ potential prosecution. what we saw is jim jordan and comer say, okay, we willu what elseu

ñ below the radar. >> ali, you wrote on our digital page about ron5a■ desantis, he not talked about trump's legal troubles until yesterday and then he purported to comefá to s defense, but it was so backhanded. he focused --ñi watch this -.í all the details and not accidentally.fáq >> you are talking about this situation with -- i don't know what goes into paying hush money to a porn star to secure silence over some type ofu i don't know what he would need. that's the rivalry coming out in the open. >> reporter: yeah. trump world had wanted desantis to say something. they wanted him toçó come to th formere@spresident's defense. they were pointing out the fact t

he said he didn'tñi want to get involved. that coulde1 have been the end the response. instead, especially after trump had been takinuó dig after dig t him over the course of the last few weeks and months, desantis also highlighted the obvious fact here, which is that he was taking a backhanded defense of trump, saying that this is political but also saying, he would have no idea how to go would have no idea how to go about hush money payments to

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ask your gastro about rinvoq. and learn how abbvie could help you save. if donald trump becomes the first former president to be indicted, the secret service assigned to all former chief executives would be with him every step of the way. that would include his booking and arraignment. minimizing public access, protecting him while posting bail. joining me to discuss this unprecedented ñisituation, possible situation, is jeh johnson, former head of homelanp security, which includes the

secret service. jeh, it's good to see you. describ" >> first, andrea, as a new yorker si+ikejt here in the borough ofe1 manhattan, i have defend the d.a.'s office. kevin mccarthy wants to denigrate it, it's just onee1e1 prosecutor and one borough. the manhattan d.a.'s office isx probably the most visual district attorney's office in the nation. ipíhe office was once occupied robert morganthal and cyrus vance. this is an important job. in answer to your question, what is occurring right now, i am sure, is a five-party discussiop

involving donald trump's personalé@■ lawyers, the manhat d.a.'s office, the united states )(q)s th@v protect 100 r meájrj in modern history unprecedented to have a former president protected by the secret service submit himself for arraignment, processing.fálp the nearestñ precedent i can think of was 50 years ago when agnew showed up in federal court in baltimore, maryland, to plea( to a charge of tax evasion. his sentence was suspended. he resigned from the office of vice presidente1 that very mome protected by the secret service. it was this law firmñi that represented him in 1973.lp thexd delicacy here and the5a■

challenge fort( the secret serve is, theire1 job is to take caref the physical security of the protectee. they are notok there --lp not p of their mission tor and avoid political embarrassment. the secret service is first and ñi a federal law enforcement agency bound to defend the law, promoteok the l and enforce the law. i hope and expect that dhs leadership, secret service leadership is reminding members of donald trump's personal detailfá thatxd enforcement officers as well as to protect>4)q>0)vár(p& safety of the protectee. >> it would be in their agreement to protect him from exposure to the public. certainly to bring him in a back way, to do those kind of things. how do you protect him as he goes through the court?

if hee1 has to appear atxd an arraignment, for instance? do they bring in change what would normally be done?e1 of course, the court building is very heavily protected and handles the worst criminals in the world down there. that's where they have terroris1 trials. >> 100 center street, a state court, is heavily populated. it's where they hear criminal cases in state court in new york county here.q i believe -- i don't recall offhand whether therexd are mag magnatometers there. the nypd is probably in the lead in this discussion. >> we have caps—ájt @&h(lc% gearing up.t( it's potentially because they don't knowlp anything but becau the former president called for protests. the last time he did that was before january 6th.çóe1

understandable that justt( protectively they would gear up in d.c. as well. >> if i could say something on that.t(fá

>> as well, you were a prosecutor in lower manhattane1n the late 1980s. you were working underñrxd rudy giuliani. he was the -- >> hirede1e1 by rudy giuliani, l >> do you think the trump team 3zcostello's decisi testimony on monday? is it too soon to tell? >> that's a good question. it'sok obviously an attempt to throw sand in the gears. z create som"1 doubt in thee1 mind of gr jurors sitting and hearing this case.lp as was noted earlier in the program, the standard for indictment is probable cause.5a1 it'se1 not beyond a reasonable doubt. plainly, this is an effort to attack credibility of michael cohen. we will see where it goes. >> jeh johnson, you have remarkable experience in so many ways. thank you very much for being with us today.

>> thank you. on thin çóice. a new u.n. report's dire warnings aboute1 climate change and whatok needs to be done to avoid catastrophe.ñri] you are watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc.okr ♪ ♪ [ cat purrs ] [ phone vibrates ] introducing astepro allergy. steroid-free allergy relief that starts working in 30 minutes, while other allergy sprays take hours. now with astepro fast allergy relief, [ spray, spray ] you can astepro and go. the first time you made a sale online with godaddy was also the first time you heard of a town named dinosaur, colorado. we just got an order from dinosaur, colorado. start an easy to build, powerful website for free with a partner that always puts you first. start for free at godaddy.com

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welcome back. the world's top climate scientists issued their most dire warning yet, that the world is at a tipping point now. if global leaders don't take dramatic action quickly. a comprehensive u.n. report warning that we are on a dangerous track for even more catastrophic heat waves, flooding and drought over the next decade. there is still a chance to avoid the worst effects, by aggressively cutting greenhouse gases in half by 2030. joining me now is michael mann, professor and director of the pan center for science, sustainability and the media, university of pennsylvania. michael is the author of "the new climate war." so, michael, this u.n. report based on thousands of scientific studies aproved by 195 countries, how does this warning compare to others and how can it be ignored? >> so this is a report that literally synthesizes the last

three reports published over the last year by the ipcc on the basic science, on the impacts and on solutions. and while there is technically nothing new, it provides a really important contextualization of what we have learned from those reports. and it presents us as you allude to with a very stark choice. we have a rapidly shrinking window available to us if we are to prevent warming from going beyond that catastrophic level of 3 degrees fahrenheit where we see ever more dire consequences of climate change. >> so, what is the report say we can do? what would make a difference? >> so, it is sort of modified -- the last report published by the ipcc, the numbers told us we needed to reduce carbon emissions by about 50% by 2030 to stay within our budget for keeping warming below that catastrophic 3 degree fahrenheit

level, where we see star worse heat waves and fires and superstorms. here is the problem. it is several years later, and we haven't seen much progress. carbon enatio emissions stopped increasing but haven't come down. we need them to come down rapidly if we are to remain below the catastrophic level of warming. we need larger reductions now. we have to reduce carbon emissions globally by 60% by 2035 to prevent us from crossing that dangerous threshold. >> president is heading to the department of the interior today. he'll designate national monuments, but last week he approved a massive drilling project in alaska. what do you think of the president's decision to aprofit willow project? >> it is a little schizophrenic.

he helped push through the inflation reduction act which helped put us on a path to bring down the carbon emissions fairly dramatically, more than 40% by 2030. not as far as we need to go, but real progress. as you allude to the administration has approved this pipeline project that will deliver more fossil fuels, dirty fossil fuels to the global market at a time when the international energy agency has been very clear. we there can be no new fossil fuel infrastructure if we are to remain below that dangerous warming limit. i would have liked to have seen the president, the administration fight harder to, you know, to prevent that -- to prevent that project from going forward. i understand they felt they were going to have difficulty in the courts, they would be challenged in the courts if they tried to block that project, but they should have at least tried to do

that. >> michael mann, thank you very much for your expertise. such a challenge for all of us and the world is not paying enough attention. i hope you'll come back again soon. and here at nbc and msnbc in our washington bureau, and throughout our networks, we have terrible, terribly sad news to share with you all. the nbc news family lost a beloved member of our team. our colleague vaughn ververs passed away suddenly on sunday, only 54 years old. almost 13 years he helped shape our political coverage as a top digital editor in our washington bureau. he was the deputy press secretary for pat buchanan's presidential campaign. vaughn pioneered a generation of political journalism and mentored so many young journalists here. he was a devoted husband and

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