and that's going on with the manhattan d.a.'s possible case as a backdrop. >> yeah, we've said that yesterday that the manhattan case could just be the tip of the iceberg for what donald trump is up against here and perhaps the least of his problems, and we got a window into that yesterday. we'll talk about that in just a second with special counsel jack

smith. now, apparently finding the donald trump surprise, surprise lied to his own attorneys about what he had in terms of classified documents at mar-a-lago, saying he didn't bring anything back with him to mar-a-lago, and the fbi found more than 100 classified documents at mar-a-lago, yeah? >> it's crazy. we'll follow that and also look at republican reaction, they're so focused on this misdemeanor, they'll look at what a misdemeanor actually means and who gets prosecuted for what, but also, there's a lot of other legal walls actually closing in. >> and also you hear one lie after another coming from republicans who get in front of microphones and say nobody gets charged with this. there's no way he'd be charged with this, except for the fact that he's donald trump and they hate donald trump, and they're going after donald trump. my gosh, we're going to be showing some examples coming up of how this statute has been

used. this felony statute has been used for as small an item as a couch. somebody shopping and bringing back actually goods that they didn't buy and getting store credit for them. a couple of thousand bucks, and they get charged with this felony and so somehow lying about $130,000 to pay off to a porn star, them saying this is much ado about nothing when people are getting charged with this same thing for a couch and for a couple thousand dollars of store credit? they're lying, but of course that's not -- >> and you're going to hold the line on that while you have georgia and the documents getting more serious and more serious. >> every second. >> so it's interesting watching these republicans sort of -- >> they're on a sinking ship. i really don't understand it. we've never understood it, they're going to get their wish.

>> despite claiming over social media over the weekend, that he would be arrested on tuesday, donald trump remains a free man for now. as expected, yesterday came and went with no movement in the manhattan district attorney's investigation into a hush money payment the former president allegedly made to porn star stormy daniels in 2016 to silence her about an affair the two allegedly had a decade earlier. trump denies any affair and any wrongdoing in the matter. the issue is the payments. but today could be a different story with the grand jury in the case set to meet again to possibly vote on whether or not to hand down a criminal indictment. republicans meanwhile, as we have said continue to defend trump on this one charge and rail against the manhattan d.a. alvin bragg. >> president trump announced he was going to run for president again. and suddenly here we go, now

they're coming after him for a bookkeeping error? >> this has got to be the e e pit mizization. >> indicting trump is a top priority. it tells you everything you need to go against the radical left. >> making things up, i don't know how stupid they think we are. i don't think it's us. they actually think their own voters are stupid, and that's what's so insulting when you have jim jordan saying, oh, donald trump just announced and suddenly they decide to charge. no, donald trump announced because he knew he was going to get indicted. we talked about it on this show for months. is he going to announce he's running just so he can move forward. and lindsey graham, he was a

prosecutor in the military. he knows better than that. he knows that people have been arrested for this for doing far less, and elise stefanik, she doesn't even believe -- none of these people even believe what they're saying, lindsey, all of them, they all trashed donald trump until they figured out their scam would be better if they supported donald trump. they don't believe any of what they're saying, and for good reason, because it's stupid. it doesn't -- it's not consistent with facts. it's not consistent with the law. they're just playing to their base, and they're insulting their base thinking their base is too stupid. >> it's a reflex, isn't it, when they're asked about donald trump to quickly race to their defense, whether you're jim jordan or lindsey graham, this investigation into donald trump in manhattan has been going on for a long time. they didn't suddenly discover all of this information.

the possibility he could be indicted is relatively new. the investigation is not. this didn't just come out when he decided to run for president. despite what you heard from senator graham there, the possible charge of falsifying business records is not something that was used against anybody. a new study found last year alone the manhattan d.a.'s office charged 11 people with that crime. trump down playing his predicament behind closed doors. the former president has told friends and associates he welcomes the idea of being paraded around by the authorities as long as he's surrounded by the media. he mused openly about whether to smile for the cameras during that possible perp walk and described the potential situation as a fun experience, joe. >> that might be fun in front of the cameras for him, but i think it's different when you get in there and you're having -- i could be wrong, but -- >> you know, we don't know. >> i don't know, but having your fingerprint taken and picture

taken. >> you know what we call that? >> what? >> that's called whistling past the grave. he's horrified. he's talking big. the walls are closing in as has been said before. this time look at all of it they have. i want to get back to the republican lie, the main republican lie right now is they're only charging donald trump, this is the politicization of this statute, no. let's give you some details on people who were charged with what trump may be charged with. falsifying business records in the first degree by the manhattan d.a.'s office, the same charge any potential indictment of trump is likely to include. here's some examples. a married couple charged for, quote, attempting to recover the cash value of various items of property that were lost in a house fire. they claimed $5,000 for a leather couch they had purchased for $1,900. do you see that?

5,000. they claimed $5,000 in insurance for 1,900, and they were charged with this. it's unbelievable. although a woman charged for this for returning unpurchased items to a lord & taylor store in exchange for a store credit. are you listening? are you hearing this? people charged for a couple of thousand dollars here, a couple of thousand dollars there for store credit at a lord & taylor, and donald trump pays a porn star $130,000. $130,000, lies about it. the guy who paid that $130,000 hush money check sent to jail. they lied about it on the business records. this isn't a couch. this isn't like a $3,000 like difference in what you paid for the couch and what you claimed the couch was worth.

this is $130,000 before a presidential election and you lied about it on your business records. using fake covid-19 vaccination cards in an attempt to get the day off of work due to vaccine side effects. >> oh, wow. >> look at this. look how small these things are. jonathan lemire, republicans, of course, this is no surprise, they're shameless, but they're also stupid to think their supporters are so stupid to not understand. they go, oh, well, this is nothing. this charge, how dare they charge him for paying a porn star $130,000 to cover up an affair a couple of days before an election. nobody would be charged with this unless their last name was trump. they charged somebody for like a couple of thousand dollars of items. they charged somebody a couple thousand dollars for claiming

$5,000 for a $1,900 couch. what trump did is so much bigger than this, and yet they lie to the republican base and claim that this is somehow a political witch hunt. >> these republicans are hoping their base never finds out, that they're not going to be presented with this evidence, they're not going to be presented with this information from conservative news outlets, that gloss over it, that repeat the lies, that amplify their false claims about the probe. this is a charge that happens. we can set aside the political debate. we know there's some democrats fretting about the sequence of these investigations and wishing the manhattan d.a. probe weren't going first. it was that charge less serious than election interference in georgia or the mishandling of classified documents or of course january 6th. >> the question is, jonathan lemire, what charge is not less than trying to steal an election and overturn american democracy.

i mean, come on. this is $130,000 paid to a porn star to cover up an affair right before a presidential election. like, i don't know what these republicans do, like with their -- with their money or with their campaign, that's not a small thing. that would be a grade a scandal for every one of them. >> yeah, and we also have to keep coming back to the same point, and this is why there are nervous democrats, but the counter to them is no man or woman is above the law. this is -- if you committed a crime, he should be held accountable for a crime, and you're right, the timing of this too. not only did we just demonstrate this is more money than some of those examples you just trotted out there, but it's the timing of it, it's the payoff done right before an election, an attempt to influence the election, and that's why this is being pursued. that's why this case was

revived, and that's why republicans are scrambling, and maybe it will help donald trump in the short-term with the gop. it's certainly not going to help going forward with the general election. >> in palm beach county florida, state attorney, dave, i want to show you the things people have been charged with before in this crime. i know you already know this. it's common sense for everybody else, not for the republicans who are lying to their base saying this is a political witch hunt. a married couple filed a false house insurance claim for a couple of thousand dollars, and they were charged with this felony. a woman tried to return items to lord & taylor that she didn't actually purchase and got store credit. >> not trump. >> found out -- not trump -- for a couple of thousand dollars, and what happens? she gets charged with this crime. a teacher used a fake covid-19 vaccine card to try to get off of work one day.

she was charged with this crime. and yet here you have donald trump, a couple of days before a presidential election paying $130,000 to a porn star, lying about it on his business records, and these republicans are claiming this is much ado about nothing? tell that to all the new yorkers that have been tried and sent to jail for doing far less than donald trump. here once again we have republicans saying the law should apply to everybody but donald trump. >> yeah, joe, i'm just a humble government employee so lord & taylor sounds like a big deal to me. but aside from that, as far as this case, i know a lot of people are saying it's small ball. i've been a little bit critical thinking maybe this isn't the one that should go first. it's the fourth out of four out there of the cases swirling around donald trump. that doesn't mean it's a weak case. the hush money payment is what sent michael cohen to federal

prison, and trump was an unindicted co-conspirator back then, individual number one, who was likely saved by the doj internal policy against indicting a sitting president. this could be bigger than we even think it is because jennifer weisselberg testified before the grand jury towards the end, jennifer weisselberg wouldn't know about stormy daniels. she would know about the finances of the trump organization. her ex-father-in-law is allen weisselberg. maybe there are going to be more charges. hell hath no furry like an exdaughter-in-law scorned. there's a principle in our country that no one is above the law. >> yeah, i mean, no one is above the law. while we're looking at this case, can you talk about the extraordinary things that happened in the jack smith investigation for the mar-a-lago documents.

my god, it looks like -- >> that's getting worse. >> that took a turn yesterday that should cause trump even more concern than what's happening with the d.a. in manhattan. >> yeah, joe and mika, i've been saying from the beginning that the greatest threat to donald trump's future freedom is the mar-a-lago document matter, and for those who say that, well, pence did it, biden did it, so that somehow insulates donald trump, no, it's not the possession of the documents. it's the refusal to give them back. it's the obstruction, punishable by up to 20 years in prison. it is so unusual to breakthrough attorney/client privilege. that's what the court did here. they found that there was a crime fraud exception, that the lawyer evan corcoran was used to facilitate a crime. what crime would that be but obstruction. here you had christina bobb who sent a letter to the department of justice saying we turned over

all the documents. that wasn't true. that was a lie. is she guilty of obstruction? the grand jury heard from her or the doj heard from her, one of the two, and she pointed the finger at evan corcoran. i didn't draft that letter, it was evan corcoran, but you should never sign a letter you didn't draft yourself. there's evidence apparently that says that it was trump who instructed evan corcoran to make these false statements. so one of these folks is going down for this in my view. is it going to be trump, is it going to be evan corcoran or both? it looks like evan corcoran is starting to point the finger at his client. >> hugo lowell let's talk about the reporting at the top of the show about trump apparently suggesting he wants to be handcuffed and be perp walked in and become a martyr of some kind. i don't think anyone actually believes that. where does the trump camp believe this whole thing is

headed in manhattan right now? >> a good question. their understanding of this case has shifted. we started out talking about campaign finance violations. now they think actually maybe the case is going to end up as a tax -- because trump never paid tax on $130,000. that went to stormy daniels and now that actually is starting freak out a little wit. i spoke to a couple of lawyers who are connected to the case, and they actually think this is more problematic than what they initially recognized. trump seems to think that indictments, he's been very specific about where he wants his handcuffs. he wants them behind his back. he clearly thinks this is imminent. >> when you say this is worse than they initially believed, why so? what about it looks worse than they thought? >> because they thought they had a defense for the campaign finance stuff. the legal argument that one of the trump lawyers made to the

d.a.'s office was it's not going to be a crime because of this irrespective test. the money would have been paid irrespective of the campaign because trump's a famous guy, he wants to avoid embarrassment. with the tax fraud, that's a much bigger issue to overcome. >> we have michael beschloss here, what can we learn from history when it comes to approaching this scandal and donald trump? do you think that it's just another blip and he survives it, and he actually can use the negative attention to further victimhood status, and actually benefit from this? >> i don't think that's happening, and i think what joe said about whistling past the graveyard, this really is false bravado, what else would he say? i think that this is that here's a situation where he could be in

four major prosecutions or conceivably even more at the same time, so you got a who's not exactly mr. health and strength in his late 70s, you know, i think joe as an eminent lawyer here would agree with me even one prosecution tends to wear someone down, fighting off people who could conceivably put you in jail to do conceivably -- sorry to keep saying conceivably, but we have to remember this hasn't happened yet, that's going to run down just about anyone. and the other thing is even trump supporters who have stuck with him all this time famously, you know, the thing about shooting someone on 5th avenue and so on, i think if they see him going into court and they see him fingerprinted, and this goes on day after day and it's on cable tv, and they see him arriving at the courthouse and going away, that's going to change the way they look at him.

and the other thing is the astound hypocrisy, i'm fighting the elite on your behalf. what's elite more than paying $130,000 to a porn star and can expecting to get away with it. >> a porn star you're having an affair with a couple of days before the election, man of the people. come on. >> right. >> i mean, my god, man of the people. no. nothing about it, but then again the whole thing's been bizarre. but you know, michael, it's fascinating that you look at all of this, and in the past trump's always been able to say sort of, come on, i'm not perfect, but are you really going to vote for biden. i'm not perfect, but are you really going to vote for -- are

you really going to vote for hillary clinton. and here we have basically sort of equivalent of maybe one of the toughest gop primaries since 1976, reagan and ford. and you've got desantis coming in, and i'm not comparing him to reagan, so please, everybody save your little tweets for somebody who gives a damn, but you have somebody coming in a reagan-like figure to the republican base, so suddenly, as you said, when people see trump in front of, you know, getting arrested the first time, getting arrested the second time, if he gets arrested the third time, they're not going to go, yeah, i'll go with a guy who keeps getting indicted over joe biden, they'll go ron desantis, he's not getting arrested and he actually won in 2022. he was a reagan-like figure in florida if you just look at the landslide that reagan was in

1966 in california. ron desantis was in 2022 in florida, except only '66 was a good year for republicans, 2022 was a hellacious year for republicans. are they going to give a pass to a guy who's lost six years in a row? >> i agree with that, the next president from the current president, we've got some real problems. china and russia are getting together. there's a war in ukraine. there are all sorts of complicated economic problems, god forbid another pandemic. do you really want a next president like donald trump distracted by all of his legal problems and his financial problems after fending off prosecutions possibly on all these fronts? i don't think so. so once again historically, donald trump in a category of his own, if he gets indicted,

that will have never happened to any other president, and you've got every other president in one category, donald trump once again in his own category of the notorious. >> the grand jury in manhattan is meeting this afternoon again. what do we expect to see? how soon might there be an indictment? what are you hearing downtown? >> yeah, so the way this game's going to work is the grand jury convenes. at some point they will take a vote on an indictment. the d.a.'s office is going to call trump' trump's lawyers end up calling the came pain. and they will convene a conference call to figure out what comes next. specifically what the lawyers need to do, what the lawyers want to do is arrange a voluntary surrender for trump. they don't want trump to go in in person with his hands behind his back in handcuffs. they think that's a terrible idea, you know, i think it remains to be seen whether trump's will wins out. it sometimes does and it sometimes doesn't, but that's

when we would learn about an indictment becoming public unless trump reveals it himself and leaks it, which he has done previously with mar-a-lago. the reason why we learned about the mar-a-lago search was because he tweeted it. >> right, right, and if he hears he's indicted there will be a truth social post undoubtedly. i expect we'll see you tomorrow or sometime soon. hugo, thanks so much. michael beschloss, thank you as well, and state attorney in palm beach county florida, dave aronberg: russia and china showcasing their friendship for another day in moscow, xi jinping's state visit with vladimir putin. concerns in the u.s. over chinese surveillance. and the chairman of the foreign relations committee, bob menendez of new jersey will be our guest. you're watching "morning joe" on

a busy wednesday morning. we'll be right back. ♪♪ you know, there's a thousand billionaires in america, it■s up from about 600 at the beginning of my term. but no billionaire should be paying a lower tax rate than a schoolteacher or a firefighter. i mean it! think about it.

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serious side effects. in a survey, 92% of current users said they wish they'd talked to their doctor and started botox® sooner. so, ask your doctor if botox® is right for you. learn how abbvie could help you save on botox®. welcome back to "morning joe," a look at new york city, half past the hour. >> your penthouse apartment up there has a beautiful view. >> it's only the first hour of four hours of "morning joe," and you're already annoying. welcome back, everybody. >> that's kind of what i do. tell me, can you see ska

negligentky from there. >> ron desantis sat down for a wide-ranging interview with piers morgan, which morgan previewed in two articles for "the new york post." according to the british broadcaster, desantis slam trump over his character failings, chaotic leadership style, and his handling of the covid pandemic, which we do have some news on this morning. morgan notes that desantis also criticized trump's chaotic self-obsessed and divisive management style, quoting the governor as saying in terms of my approach to leadership, i get personnel and the government who have the agenda of the people and share our agenda. you bring your own agenda in, you're gone. desantis went on to say the way we run the government i think is no daily drama, focus on the big picture and put points on the board. fox news got a preview of that moment, take a look. >> what is your favorite

nickname that trump gave you so far? is it ron desanctimonious? >> i can't -- i don't know how to spell desanctimonious, i don't know what it means. i kind of like it, it's long, i've got a lot of vowels. we can go with that. you can call me whatever you want, just as long as you also call me a winner. >> wow. wow. >> willie -- >> went after him. >> i'd be curious. trump would rather be perp walked a thousand times than have fox news piers morgan ron desantis laughing at him. look at that, it's a nice little warm family get together. fox, the post, giving ron desantis whatever he wants and desantis laughing at trump, and

then at the end, call me whatever you want just as long as you call me a winner. >> ouch. >> that hurts for a guy who's lost six times in a row. >> as you suggest, this is a coordinated effort the front page of the new york post this morning, ron hit don with a picture of piers morgan and governor desantis there. you're right, that is exactly the tone that gets under the skin of donald trump the most, which is being laughed at. and that is the posture that ron desantis seems to have figured out now for the last few days at least, which is i don't have time for this. i don't have time to social media fight with the former president. i'm down here winning by 30 points getting things done for the people of florida. his posture is i don't have time for that guy. i don't even know what the nickname is. i'm down here doing my job. >> but i would point out that ron desantis's polling is head to head with donald trump's.

it's gone down over the past couple of months and post-midterms donald trump suffered because he was seen as the loser who lost the midterms for republicans. now he's had a couple months of relatively quieter press, now he's back in the news, but is he going to be able to successfully use his victim hood narrative, he's been saying if this can happen to me, it can happen to you, which is hilarious but a lot better messaging than he has had at points in the past, and is that something that's going to pick up with republicans? >> i mean, look at the split screen right there, jonathan lemire. donald trump just looks tired, he really does. this is not ageism, it's time that he's in his mid-70s, he's looked tough, strong, aggressive. he's just tired. >> confident. >> he's not confident. the crowds have dwindled, and here you have desantis, again,

desantis a massive landslide win in florida, not only that, he made sure republicans won across the state. they have a super majority in the legislature. i mean, again on the night that donald trump was blamed for losing senate races and governor's race in pennsylvania, senate races in arizona where his candidates were losing, senate races in nevada, senate races in georgia. i mean, donald trump in all these contested races, lose, lose, lose, he lost in 2017, '18, '21, '22. i really do think when you get out on the campaign trail, ron desantis has got a very simple question to ask voters, republicans, do you want to win or lose? look what i did in 2022. look what he did in 2022. look what he did the six elections before that. come on, aren't you tired of losing? i know how to win, follow me. don't really care what the numbers are right now.

that is such a compelling message. it's going to be hard for trump to get around that. >> yeah, and certainly right now desantis is the beneficiary of all the anti-trump forces coalescing around him. this is an interesting moment for desantis who up until this point has really held his tongue. trump has been attacking him, you know, day after day after day. a lot of it relentless and unfair, and desantis has ignored it, and he's chosen now to start engaging. but to your point, doing so in a way where he's laughing at trump. he's not hitting back with criticisms, but he is no longer ignoring him altogether. we heard his comment from the stage the other day about the indictment and the porn stars and now this interview with piers morgan. we don't know if that's fueled by his slip in polls. he's the one republican using this moment, which is clearly a perilous moment for trump, and

desantis is the one republican breaking with him. it does seem like he's trying to create daylight, at least on personality if not the issues. now, whether that will play when he really starts ramping up, whether it will work in states like iowa, new hampshire, south carolina, we shall see. but it's clear that desantis is gearing up for this. and in that same interview made it very clear he's all but certain to jump in and run in a couple of months when the florida legislative session ends. >> he was asked directly about that by piers morgan, he said stay tuned. last month there was a monmouth poll that showed desantis and trump tied. yesterday the same poll showed trump up 14 points on ron desantis. coming off those comments where ron desantis said i just don't know anything about paying off a porn star. he said in that interview, the underlying conduct in the manhattan case talking about

paying off a porn star, it's just outside my wheel house. it's not something i can speak to. >> i think he's finding his voice on all this. >> i know how to handle the florida water management district. you get a balance of budgets in the way. i'm pretty good at figuring out what lands protection and where you just jet up to the line. not quite as good at managing $130,000 payoff to porn stars and having an affair a couple of days before a presidential election to try to make that go away. you know, he's sending that message. let me just remind everybody here as far as how little polling matters right now. willie, you will remember when "morning joe" started 47 years ago. >> yeah. >> just a couple of kids, right after the war so maybe a couple

of kids coming back. the big one, the big one. for some reason giuliani and hillary clinton were running in the 1948 election as well. but you will remember in 2007 hillary clinton and rudy giuliani were light years ahead of everybody in may, june, july, august of 2007, and you see these huge swings one week before an election. so these numbers don't mean anything right now. what matters is whether desantis decides to run or not and how that election shapes up. i don't think the dynamics shape up well for donald trump as all. >> we're just at the very beginning of all these investigations of potential criminal charges againstdonald trump. we don't know where that's headed. we don't know what that might mean for him. we're just now on the brink potentially in manhattan with

january 6th still to go, with georgia still to go. with the mar-a-lago documents still to go and on and on. >> all right, coming up, a look at some of the other big stories from capitol hill, including what we expect to hear from norfolk southern as he goes before a senate hearing. an update on mitch mcconnell's recovery as he works his way back from a fall nearly two weeks ago. that and much more when "morning joe" comes right back. . >> i don't know what goes into paying hush money to a porn star to secure silence over some type of alleged affair. i can't speak to that. so every day, you can say... ♪ youuu did it! ♪ with centrum silver. we must finally hold social media companies accountable. it's time to pass bipartisan legislation to stop big tech from collecting personal data on our kids and teenagers online. ban targeted advertising to children.

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in tee enman square. joining us now long-time foreign correspondent mike chanoi, a non-resident senior fellow at the u.s. china institute at the university of southern california and author of the new book, "assignment china: an oral history of american journalists in the people's republic." thanks for being on this morning. >> so great to have you with us, mike. my god, what you've seen through the years, why don't you tell us what we're going to see in the book? >> the book is based on over 100 interviews i did in the past 15 years with people who have covered china for the u.s. media from 1945 and the start of the chinese civil war right through the covid pandemic up to the present day. the idea is that most folks who watch the news or read the news don't have any idea how that news got there. but as anyone who's in the news business knows the process by

which people report and write and transmit the news is central to what folks see, so i thought it would be interesting to get people who have been on the front lines, the people who tole the china story to tell their own story. what was it like to be in shanghai when the communist army rolled in in 1949? what was it like to go on the press plane to china with richard nixon or to try to cover china under the very, very tight repression and restrictions that exist today. so that's the premise of the book, and there are many, many household names that people will have read or watched telling kind of behind the scenes stories of how they did what they did. >> you know, it's been such a remarkable, such a tumultuous history, a violent history under mao, but even as they moved beyond mao, you talked about tieneman square, the handover of

hong kong, the last couple of years the crackdown in hong kong, covid, what did they tell you? what did you learn about how difficult it was -- we look at janis mackey frayer when she reports out of beijing, a totalitarian government. it seems at times you have to measure your words, but it takes a certain type of reporter to cover the news there. >> well, the central theme in china has been this endless struggle that american and other foreign journalists have had to go through to sort of penetrate the secrecy that the chinese communist party, and the communist party wants to impose its own narrative on the foreign press and the chinese people and now increasingly on the rest of the world. it's been an endless battle to try and penetrate that. it's ebb and flow depending on internal conditions in china, which have gone from extreme

repression to relative relaxation, and now back to the tight control xi jinping has imposed. today conditions in the people's republic are more difficult than perhaps at any time since china began its policy of market oriented changes in the late '70s which went along with opening diplomatic relations with the u.s. it's a very, very tough beat, but it's crucially important given especially the deterioration in relations between the china and the u.s. >> mike, i look at china through the lens of a personal experience. i think over 40 years ago, was it, dating myself, but when my father had -- to our home in virginia to a state dinner that happened in our private home working on normalization of relations with china. can you talk about how things have changed, even digressed since that important moment? ñ

chinese side the architect of the establishment of diplomatic relations with the u.s., and i think to many americans he was kind of the cuddly communist. he came here, he wore a cowboy hat at a rodeo in texas, and at that time the sense in the united states was that china was potentially valuable strategic partner in the cold war against the soviet union and the potentially important economic partner, and one of the things that i think is really complicated in the tensions that have developed between the u.s. and china today is that unlike the -- there's this extraordinary interconnectedness between the united states and china now. there's billions of dollars of american investment in china. there are thousands of americans living there. there are thousands of chinese living here. there are all kinds of connections linking the two societies even as the governments are increasingly at lagger qheads.

that makes the notion of a conflict much more troublesome both in terms of impact on the people involved and in terms of managing it from a policyr of view. >> mike,t( as you have been talking, we aree1 showing pictus of president xi standing in solidarity with president putin. their extended visit in moscow, what shouldxd americans make of this, to be seen with president putin a year into the invasion of ukraine where the west is on the side of ukraine and funding and backing president zelenskyy while russia is attacking civilians, attacking infrastructure. what does this mean for our relationship withe1 e1china? >> xi jinping'si] embrace of vladimir putin is not going to help t(china's relationship wit the united states. the chinese and the ñrrussians, think, see themselves asñi alli in trying toxd counter and push back against what they see as the oku.s.-led world order, and while we don't know a lot of

details about the xie1 j think certainly on the economic front there will befá expanded cooperation on the sort of strategic front, how far it will go militarily, wee1 don't know. but it's■ complicated because china is@52áv economically dependent on its trade with the west, on its trade with the united states. so on the one hand, xi and putin want to stand up against washington. on the other hand,t( xi needs t have functioning trade ties with europe and the u.s., especially because the chinese economy is in trouble now. it's not quite ase1 simple a calculation as it i]looks. >> do you think that chinaw3 an president xi has the juice to influence vladimir putin as far as the war in ukraine goes? he says he's brought a peace proposal with him, whatever that means, putin says he's reviewed it with great consideration. does president xi have the influence over vladimir putin to bring this war in some way to an end? >> i don't know that he does, and i don't know that he wants

to because i thin+awbuz benefit of china to the war continuing. it's distracting to the united states. the u.s. is pumping military hardware which it might use to beef up americans' position until the pacific giving concerns about possible conflicq over china with 2!]99ñ the peace plan is widelye1 seens ae1 non-starter, xi hasn'te1 sp with the ukrainian leader in the months the conflict has been going on. that's a lot of posturing that people will see through. >> the book is "assignment china" ani] oral history of an !o mike, congratulations on the book. >> thanks for havin[dzme. north korea

joining us from south korea,fá c news foreign correspondent, josh lederman. what'sw3 the latest there, josh? >> reporter: those cruise missiles launched by north korea areok theq at least sixth round missiles launched by the north just this month, and coming in á)hkorea milita

joe. >> thank you so much, josh. nbc's josh lederman live in south korea this morning.

thank you so much. elise jordan, we hear about it a good bit from admiral stavridis and other military people telling us about howt( t united states is reallyt( flexi their muscles in asia. finally that asiaxd pivot that every president over the paste15 years has been promising, bute1 you look at our increased presence in guam, what's happening in the philippines, the fact that we've got japan now to agreeq to massivelyw3 exd their military budget. our nuclear deal with australia■ you just go down the line. now these militarye1 exercises itself, korea which we have been doing, but taken all together, china is feeling hemmed in. for a while, the united states was distracted in the middle east. i think we can turn the page on that for now at least. there is an asia pivot, and china is getting real push back. thirdjs a region right nowñi t(k that's, you know, getting a little tense. >> i would like to see thew3 as pivot continue, and president

biden should e1ñirevisit the transpacific partnership trade deal. i wish we would reachxd out ando some kind of deal like that, be part of it. let's do whatever we can to actually hem in china economically. still ahead, we'll have a >> there you go. and we will have much more on that, and straight ahead on "morning joe." is detected. sam. sophie's not here tonight. so you have a home with no worries. brought to you by adt.

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beautiful view of@átz white house. welcome back to "morning joe." it is qwednesday, march the 22n.

we've got new reporting this potentially major developmentlpn the mar-a-lago documents case. we're going to dige1 into what trump reportedly told his attorneys about the materials that he had, and a judget( actually letting the attorney/client privilege suggesting that they think that his attorney may have been used to help him commit a crime.t( this comes as house speaker kevin mccarthyñ1 and other top

shohei ohtani, the best player in the major leagues, may be against the second best player of the majore1 leagues. mike trout, struck him out to end the inning andq win the gam. incredible start to the baseball season. can't wait. >> ande1 you willq notice, jonan lemire, he said absolutely nothing about oq boston red sox. >> yeah, that was clearly wise and intentional because we wouldn't want to dash people's good feelings starting into the new season with talk of thee1 se to be below 500 boston red sox. mike is right, the world baseball classic was thrilling. great games throughout. you hate to see ai] couple of injuries that cam■ with it.

it was wond+ádul for the sport. ohtani versus trout, it was perfect. a new era. highlights here, teammates for the angels during the major leagues but last night on opposite sides. how do you hit that? there's been skepticism around this, should major league baseball players be leaving spring training, could they do that at a different time of

year. it comes right before the season. they put a lot of that to rest, and people talking about how great the series was. how much fun it was. how great the game was last night. think about it, ohtani and trout, after that moment thatu ended the ko■baseball, trout wia wiffle ball, they go back to spring training, and they'll be in the dugout in ag he reallyxd is. there's none other like him, and

he would just be a great face for major league baseball, but they don'thow how to market their superstars, and we're looking at this kid, a lot of people are saying, okay, who is he? i think i have heard the na-pñ■ before. this guy is doing things that nobody hase1 done since babe ru, and 95% of americans don't know about it. >> that's exactly right, joe. he is the first legitimate two-way player, pitches and plays offense, plays the outfield since babe ruth. currently major league player, he throws the hardest fast ball, 101, 102 miles per hour, he hits the lormq■ home runs, 475, 500 feet in batting practice yesterday. he's one of the fastest playersr in major league baseball. he plays every day, pitches or plays the outfield. if he weree1 in the nationale1 football league doing aw3 simil football league doing aw3 simil athletic a6!5sqáic ability in fe would bee1 the most popular and well known athlete in the

country, perhaps in the world. >> and joe, i think that to this point, part of it is playing in anaheim, playing with the angels there which has been a >> ohtanie1 would be ae1 great >> jacob, right? okay. yeah, so anyhow, i'm going to keep that -- for degrom of course. we're goinge1 to start with the news on a new report that

reveals prosecutors and special counsel jack smith's office have presented quote compelling preliminary evidence!u■ that for president donald trump knowingló and deliberately misled his own attorneys about his retentionxdf classified materials after leaving office and committed quote, criminal violations. citing a sealed filing written by the d.c. district judge on the case, who stepped down last week at the end of her term. in thet( filing, judge howell found prosecutors showed quote that's according to abc news's sources. the judge concluded that trump's actions put corcoran inw3 a position to deceive the government andq therefore damagd his claims of attorney/client privilege. the judge made it clear that prosecutors would need to meet a higher standard of evidence in

order to seek charges against trump and5a■ prove his guilt bed a reasonable doubt. nbc news has not confirmed this reporting bye1 abc. willie? >> let's bring in lecturer and law at columbia law school,i] caroline, federal criminal defense attorney. good to see you. i want to talk about the manhattan d.a.'s case in a second. howçó significant is in development potentially to the mar-a-lagot( documents case if donald trump didñi knowingly li to his attorneys and say yoch e1 -- i don't have the documents or i didn't take them on purpose. what does that mean to the case? >> rulings of this nature do not happen, really, at all. you know, you can tell your attorney about a crime that you committed in the pastfk"t$oweve attorney to aid you in an ongoing crime. that's where the attorney/client privilege would be evisceratedó by the crime fraud exception. as a defense attorney i get attorney/client privilege being

broken because it is so sacred. here, what'se1 different about e mar-a-lago documents caseg and that's really the exposure in termse1 of the heightened criminal exposuree1 here. if president trump was the one that lied to his attorneys, christina bobb's attestation that they had done afá diligent search for all of the records and none were remaining. and none weras a lie.ng. that was not true. we're now, you know, getting sort of closer to the top, moving toe1 evan corcoran. evan okcorcoran, it sounds like will have to disclose whether or not it was trump himself that told him there were no remaining documents, and, you ko■know, ths where they could pin it on him. it's a huge deal. >> does it add a crime to the list of crimes? in other words,3w■ does!u■ it me potential penalties worse for donald trump? >> the obstruction charge carried 20 years in prison. it's by far much more serious

than justxd the abscondinglpupg. >> that seems way more serious than talking about what's happening potentially withe1 th manhattan d.a. and what d$v i would say obviously the january 6th issue is, you know, probably the biggest thing that he has facing him. however, all the reporting indicates that the first indictment, the first in line of these four swirling investigations is likely going to be5a■'c■ from the manhattan district attorney's office. it is not the crime of the

century. it's aq de)9=i■ offense, falsification of business records. i like to clarify in the reporting that hush money payments in and of themselvesfá are not illegal for better or for worse. you know, we heard about it in the "national enquirer," they did a similar thing with catch and kill, with karen mcdougal, the playboy model. it happens all thew3 time. what is a crime is how they documented on trump.org's business records and then potentially prosecutors could kick it up to a felony, still the lowest level felony in new york if they can show that that falsification was made in furtherance of a second crime, and that's wherexd we get to th federal election law violation that they would have to show that the payment was made to aid the election, to aid hisi] campaign that trump teams, you know, buttal, is look,e1 this ia personal payment. we would have made it anyway.ón% there's reasons prosecutors

would have made the cas]éá4 rñq >> caroline, if the revelations that trumpçó lied to hisfá lawy are true, are proven accurate, can the lawyer bee1 forced to testify againstok him? >>lp absolutely. and that'se1 precisely what, yo know, there's a little bit of a chicken or the egg problem, and the judge made it clear in her ruling that, you know, this is not proof beyond a reasonable doubt.çó but in order to get, to elicit the testimony from the lawyer,e1 which, again, is extraordinary, it's an extraordinary development that we have a judge ordering a lawyer to disclose information that was told to him by his client, but if it turns out that there was an ongoing crime in the process and we're talking about obstructione1 of justice, absolutely thatfá information can and will come out. >>t( house speaker kevin mccart is coming to the defense of donald trump. even as he makes an argument

>> we liveq in america and it should be equal justice. this was personal money. this was seven years ago, statute of limitations, in your heart of hearts, yojjju too this is just political. i think that's what the rest of the country is saying.k&]ñre ki is we're tired of republicans f lying. >> exhausted, qhu11eì(lc% >> of republicans lying, lying every time they talk about donald trump, like e1trump, the have to lie. they always lie, and in this case, to say we want equal justice and we're p■#ming on donald trump, it's just a lie. if they bring charges, you look at the federal statutes or the pmeát—q bringing, i don if we have the list that we can put up right now, but donald

that heñi paid a porn star in hh money to cover up an affair, an alleged affair. $130,000, and they lied about it. their business records lied about it. in new york state, where trump is being charged if he gets p,■ charged, a marriedu this married couple lied aboutla

$1,900 couch in an insurance claim. and they're busted under this statute. a woman, she returns items that she didn't buyw3 from lord & taylor and got store credit. she is charged under this fá statute, kevin mccarthy. don't lie. please. if you can somehow find it in your soul to stope1lp lying for donald trump, with trump we're talking about him lying about $130,000r

and she lied that she had side effects from a vaccine and didn't go to work that day. she got charged under the same statute. and kevin mccarthy and other republicans go outxd and they l. they lie because they want to whip up the base. i guess because they want more riots like they had on january the 6th. why else wouldçó they lie?ok why else would they just look past the fact that people arer charged under this statutee1 foa $1,900 couch for store credits falsif1 a covid test versus a

billionaire, supposedly, lying aboutq $130,000 payoff to a por star to cover up an affair a couple of days before a presidentiylk■election. you want equal justice under the law, kevin mccarthy, then you'll get it. and donald trump will be charged with this because, mike, these other people, you know what they think, those poort( schmucks, is just like the rioters, one after another, that aree1 rotting in jailñr right now because of dond trump, and donald trump is still sittinge1 in mar-a-lago, and here's kevw.$s,(p)thy stille1e1 defending donald trump for things that would havexd sent other people to prison years ago. >> you know,t( joe, i would modestly suggeste1 that you aren to something heree1 in your discussion just now. it's much larger in a sense than what is going on with all the

potential iohictmentsçó of dona trump. and it is the darkness, the5a■ danger, the duplicity, the division that he has created, caused, and caused to grow in this country of ours. every day people get upd to work, hope and pray for their families. hope 4rh kids do better in this country than we have all done in thisxd country. that's pretty normal. nobody is in it for retribution. nobody gets up to go to work for retribution. but this one man, this one manl who is president of the united states gets up every day intent on fostering himself forward, pushing himself forward in terms of dividing theçó country. every day help divides the couny in some way or another intentionañeì(lc% and i think that's a larger issueçó than anything that's on any docket in washington or manhattan orhóanywhere. it's about us. and you haveñi to wonder who ar

we? who are these people like kevin mccarthy who don't recognize the disruption and danger ) division in this country. >> well, they do recognize it perhaps, but they're scared of the man you're looking at right there, and won't cross him still after all of these years. let's bring in congressional reporter for the hill, mychael schnell, good morning. let's talk more about your reporting about kevin mccarthy saying this is personal lpmoney we have to move on. the whole country knows this is an old story, it's politically driven, motivated by a leftistf d.a. many republicans talking about alvin bragg giving soros money through a super pac during v)( campaign. we know what that means,e1 that a sign@n that has been sent out many times over the years. what is the private posture of republicans? are they worried about everything that's com donald trump and just not saying so in public? >> that's exactly right, willie, everything that you just laid out is something that speaker kevin mccarthy said when republicans for the past three

days were down in orlando for their annual issues conference, and something that struck me as particularly interesting is that we see kevin mccarthy trying to down play what's going on with president trump, saying we need to move on, and he was actually asked a question about trump dominating headlines from this down in orttr(t he said it's not dominating our retreat. it's dominating yourçó question which is true. reporters were asking a number of questions about this topic because it's so important, but i think one thing that's interesting to point out is that republicans have, within their part, drawn attention to the manhattan district attorney. back on monday, we saw three very powerful house committee chairmen, jim jordan, steele, and comer, that he sit for ae1 transcribed interview about his investigation, and he passed along documents and communications regarding that investigation. regardless of if republicans are out front saying if they want to

move on, this is notjf a big issue. it's a political prosecution. we're seeing house republicans make this their bid, put it back in the headlines, when they're requesting the investigator, evene1 before charges have been dropped to comef dn for an interview. i think that's sort of interesting, and it's interesting to juxtapose the two that when republicans are saying they want to move on, they're keeping this in the headlines by looking into it with their congressional authority. >> hey, michael,e1 certainly th are doing exactly that. a lot of their arguments, of course, are notfá in good faith. you just started to discuss some of theq actual machinations, soe of the levers of power of government to interfere with, threaten or intimidate this investigation. tell us more about what you have learned, and are they considering doing the same, perhaps, with the district attorney in fulton county, georgia, we know is also potentially in the final stages of a major investigation into donald trump. >> yeah, that's right, jonathan,

so as i mentioned on monday, we9 we do not have any indication. right now, it looks like those thrumr(áázittees are going to b1 handling any potentialñr probeçu

gavels of these very powerful committees. >> the hill's mychael schnell,e great to have you with us. and caroline, mgt's talk about manhattan and what may be coming. the grand jury convenes again today in just a few hours. are you expecting maybe not today but at some point to see an indictmentlp here? >> absolutely. i mean, all signs arew3 pointin )sq this week, apparently the last witnessñi has been called. bob costello, former attorney for michael cohen, the trump team requested that bob costellá come in and testifyu it evades me how or why michael cohen waived the attorney/client privilege that boblp costello could spill the beansd

of the grand jury. if the reportinñ is correct,q te manhattan d.a. is not calling michael cohen to rebut the rebuttal witness. the d.a. would come in, make a ( summation, and the grand jury would vote,xd go over the draft indictment, votee1 on the indictment, and, you know, 99% of the time, they come back with an indictment. so it could happen anytime now. it q >> alljfñr right. attorney caroline, thank you very much. a piece in the "new york times" caught our eye with startling insight into what was happening at the cdc during the start of the pandemic. the report portrays an agency under intense pressure from political leadersxdxd as trump administration officials down played warnings from scientistsu the times interviewed at least eleven current and former agency employees who described their despair. the reporting reads quote, all

through february ofçó 2020, agey scientists had been gathering evidence that the■ó new coronavirus was being spread by people without symptoms and that cdc leaders realized that the virus was being spread, not just by people who were coughing and sneezing but also by people who were not visibly ill. thee1 agency had not yet warned the public. the "times" adds some■3 younger staff members wrestled with guilt, anger and a rising sense of powerlessness as administration officials meddled with or simply disregarded important scientific research. one doctor said, quote, all of us."■ko■ knew tens of thousands going to die, and we were helpless to stop it. it was reallg÷ heartbreaking an difficult on a psychological level not to be able to do anything. >> well, you know, this is something, willie, that we saw inxd realtime. >> we saw it coming. >> we saw in realtimeçó whe@e■

had donald trump on january the 24th, saying this is much adieu about nothing. don't worry about it. president xi is working with us. the chinese communists are being transparent. the people of the united states thank president xi and the chinese communist party basically thanks china for being so open about this covid crisis. he said in january it was only oneñr person coming in from 5aó, and it was going to go away a couple of weeks laterq when he was in michigan. he said it was only 10, 11, 12 people that were coming in. they were taken care of. nothing was going to be a problem. he kept lying and made the cdc and other people, like keepe1 lying to the american people or atñ&east not be aggressiveñi enough. and this just continued. it continued throughout covid. he lied about clorox.

of leadership. he could have been that guy. he could have been that president in the early stages of january, february, march, three year=

and from the top, they were getting downwardçóq pressure to make it much more difficult. >> he chose and his choices could have saved lives, but he chose differently. still ahead on "morning joe," amid the growingñrñr call ban tiktok, the popular app just got some new support on capitol hill. we'll take a look at that, andñ we'll be joined by the head of }auz ftc who has been vocal abon the national security and public health issues presented by the app. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. its ca with social sentiment help you find and unlock opportunities in the market with powerful, easy-to-use tools power e*trade makes complex trading easier react to fast-moving markets with dynamic charting

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tiktok and its parent company bite dance have landed their first ally on capitol hill. bowman told nbc news he has not seen evidence the chinese government is using the app tou spy on americans, adding, quote, there are many apps on our phones that are chinese apps. the idea that tiktok is the boogeyman is part of a political fear mongering. tiktok'sxc■ is expected to testify before the house energy and commerce committee tomorrow morning in what likely will be a combative hearing on whether the app presents a security risk to the unitede1 states. the hearing is expected to focud on whether the app should be banned outright in the united states. in lighte1 of a potential ban, e "wall street journal" is reporting tiktok's advertising staff has been down playing that t;i■eat to keep brands from cutting their spending with the company. joining us now, ftc commissioner, brendan carr. commissioner carr is advocating commissioner carr is advocating for a tiktok ban5a■ in the unitq

states. mr. commissioner, thanks for ñt)ju)u$ us this morning.q what is the case for banning tiktok outright in the united states? what are the risks you see? >> yeah, well, obviously tiktok is an immensely popular application. i think that's part of what we see with representative bowman talking about. it'sq incumbent on government officials to speak clearly about the real national security threats, and tiktok is not just another short forme1 video application where you can seee1 dances and other memes, it'sq operates a sophisticated surveillance tool. it's pulling search and browsing history, key stroke patterns, potentially biometrics, including face prints and voiceprints. we're told officials don't worry. all of thise1 is stored in the u.s., and some cases it doesn't exist in china, and this past summer, buzzlp feed news had a block buster report that had internal audio reports, that everything is seen in china, and that exposed their representations as nothing more than gaslighting. it goes beyond that. subsequently, tiktok itself was forced to admit that, yes, in

fact, they used th.á applicatio elicitly toe1 surveil the locations of specific journalists here, in the u.s. and abroad writing negative stories about tiktok. this is one where the facts are there, the red flags are well known now. >> we have heard many make the case, tiktok may be a problem, and so too ife1 we're talking about data mining and collecting what everybody knows about each other, facebook, twitter, you could go down the list of social media companies that do this kind of thing.

there's other studies that show something like 30 or 40% opposes we have to do the right thing by national security, and i think part of this is, again, explaininy?ñ to parents what's going on here. there was a studye1 that the "n york times" published maybe a month or so ago that looked at accounts set up for 13-year-old girls on tiktok, they were5a■ bg showed self-harm, eating disorder related content within minutes of the accounts being set up. 3tlt a separate app available i china, test showing those kids educational material, museum exhibits, sign experiments, so i think there's a real challenge here, and we've also>3#e&d■■[ç frankly, interference in our elections. there was a report that showed ahead of our midterm elections recently, the ccp statew3 media set up tiktok accounts without

disclosing that they were state media accounts, unlike other social media and they targeted select politicians for criticism and divisive videos ahead of our elections. this i)1 one where i think we'v got to make the case. you see fbi director chris wray out there and one of the strongest voices on this, chrisi murthy, a#■ tiktok scares the any evidence that the company,x that bytedance, tiktok has shared data with the chinese government? >>lp if you ask tiktok have you shared data with personnel in beijing that are members of the ccp when their cto testified a couple of months ago in congress she said she wanted to decline to answer that questiont( becau

she didn't want toxd get into polit6pp& affiliation. right where they refuse to answer questioningi] is where tt nexus would be disclosed there's parliament looking at the,ç n issues that çóexposed the closea relationship between tiktok, bytedance and the ko■ccp party committees that arexd embedded bytedance: there's a lot ofe1 reason to be concerned. they haven't shut the door and they haven't shut the door and said it's never been izq hands of ccp. >> mike barnicle? >> isn't there a larger issue involved here, and that would be the issue of privacy? with all of these applications, tiktok, facebook, you name it, thelp invasion of people's personal privacy is a constant agitation and threat in this country, is any of it under the purview of the fcc? >> we have a roll to play, the federal trade commission has a jaderxd purview. they're thee1 expert consumer protection agency in the

country, and congress, frankly. there's a lot of discussion talking about putting in place bipartisan protection. i think that would go a long way for social media companies that operate in a capitalist environment, operates in a waye constrained by court systems. we have seen tiktok engage in abusive conduct. again, they're negotiating right now with the treasury departments, trying to avoid a ban, and during that moment with every incentive to opewmuq in the right way, they were surveilling the location of journalists. based on level of concerns, we need to address across the board as a government. there's something unique that leads us to need tot( take an action on tiktokq in the near term. >> tiktok's ceo says the company has never been asked or shared any of that user data with the chinese government as you suggest could happen down the road. ift( that did happen, what is t fear, to explain and take it one step further. all of this data is collected from users of tiktok. let's say it makes its way into thee1 hands of the chinese government, what is the fear from youre1 end of what the

government might do with the information? >> there's ae1 report. forbes newly describing a tool that a tiktok employee says they have access to, that employees refers to as nsa to go, that allows itqe$uz build5a■ potentia digital dossier. blackmail potential, and recently there was ae1 questionn the senate çóabout, you knop could you use this application. i think this is what democrat congressman christian murthy is on. if you haveçó 100 million peopl on tiktok, getting narrowx1e1 n they could use it to change people's viewpoints on these issues, and in fact, rightlp no if you look,xd there's a study that showed, if you search certain terms on tiktok liáj ccp, uyghur, hong kong, you get positiveçó results for the ccp, the same terms searched on instagram and you tube. that potential for foreign >> before i let you go, one of the things that congressman bowman and others have said is that this is sort of fear mongeringi] about china.e1

congressman bowman used xenophobia about china. how do you respond to'c■ that? >> not at all. i think we have the facts clearly here. india one of the first countries to ban tiktok entirely. they did that in 2020. taiwan, which is, i think,i] 97g

get directv with a two year price guarantee. (fisher investments) in this market, you'll find fisher investments is different than other money managers. (other money manager) different how? aren't we all just looking for the hottest stocks? (fisher investments) nope. we use diversified strategies to position our clients' portfolios for their long-term goals. (other money manager) but you still sell investments that generate high commissions for you, right? (fisher investments) no, we don't sell commission products. we're a fiduciary, obligated to act in our client's best interest. (other money manager) so when do you make more money, only when your clients make more money? (fisher investments) yep. we do better when our clients do better. at fisher investments, we're clearly different.

an update to a story we first brought youñi at the star of the ukraineñi war.g a belarusian court has sentenced the main opposition leader to 15 m■ in jail for high treason and conspiracy to seize power. she fled belarus in 2020 after runningt( againstxd authoritari leadere1 aleksandr lukashevk5 the arrest of her husband

angered many belarusians who sided witht(p,■ takanaskia, and on to stage the protest against lukashenko ineó.s post-soviet lukashenko ineó.s post-soviet history.a(ultimately she was fo flee her homeland. back ine1 february of 2022, we interviewed her on thee1 day before russia invaded ukraine, and she stressed how her country's independence and democracy were also atlp stake.i svetlana takanaskia joins us this morning. we appreciate you being on this morning, obviously we have reported and there are many reports of russia openly planning to absorb belarus by thet( year 2030. you have been sentenced by a =%5 agov

actually, ukraine and belarus are facing the same enemy. it's ambitions of russia, and we have to fight with them. so first of all, i want to be sure that belarus is not sure thahe world. is not and now we see that lukashenko

>> so i know you're in anb■ ver difficult position as the opposition party leader living outside your country, your husband t(imprisoned, and president biden has invited you to speak for the summit in democracy. can you tell us how you think the world is reacting, nato country is reactfá to go ukr and what you think you should share at the summit for democracy aboutçó belarus and w1

your country needs in light of what qst happening in ukraine. >> soçó first of all, i'me1 rea grateful to presidente1 biden. the wife of nobel peace prize, now in prison, he was sentenced to 15 years, and we will talk about the repression in our country. i want toxd underlineu we need toñi get rid of theñie1e ■ to accountability, and

use all the forcible mechanisms that exist in the world to punish lukashenkoe1 for crimes against the belarusian people also, we are asking about

commencement. your voice with different organizations, to speak out on independence and for their voice to be heard. >> belarusian opposition leader, thank you very much for coming on this morning. we will be watching as you speak at the summit of democracy. thank you. up next we will look at the tributes to nba legend and beloved new york knicks player, willis reed. "morning joe" is coming right back. fasenra is not a rescue medication or for other eosinophilic conditions. fasenra may cause allergic reactions. get help right away if you have swelling of your face, mouth and tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop your asthma treatments unless your doctor tells you to. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection or your asthma worsens.

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comcast business. powering possibilities™. new york knicks legend, willis reed has died, and he played each of his ten nba seasons with the knicks and is

credited for being a loser to the champion. it was the nba finals, we carved his name in hardwood history. reed missed game six in los angeles as. the knicks hit the floor with pregame warm-ups without him, and some 15 minutes later, they had their answer. the garden erupted when reed limped out of the tunnel, forever known as the reed tunnel. his thigh heavily wrapped, he scored baskets from the top of the key. reed didn't score another point, but he didn't need to, though.

the knicks were on their way to a 113-99 win in their first nba title. here it is. the two times finals mvp, his number 19 was to be retired by the knicks, and he was inducted into the basketball hall of fame in 1982. reed's death was confirmed by his family, and the cause was not released but he has been in poor health. he was 80 years old. mike barnicle, these are the back pages of the new york tabloids this morning. here is the "daily news," he was our hearts, talking about willis reed, and the "new york post" the captain. the word iconic is over used these days, but it's iconic, whenever a player limps out and

plays in pain, it's known as a willis reed moment. you will hear a young marv albert's voice saying, here comes willis reed. the first title was won with collide fraser and monroe a few years later. it was their last title, and that's a matter for another day, 50 years ago. truly, one of the all-time greats not just in basketball, mike, but in the history of american sports. >> there's no doubt about that, willie. the world iconic is over used, but it can be applied here. it was herald in madison square garden, and he participated in the final series and beating the

lakers for the world series championship. what he did that night was made so memorable because of where it happened, the garden and new york city, and anything that happens in new york is iconic. you hear sports announcers in basketball and football, baseball, and they would say, there's a willis reed moment for you, and he was, indeed, one of the best basketball players ever. >> grew up to be the toast of madison square garden. may he rest in peace. coming up, we will talk to a former watergate prosecutor about the legal implications there when "morning joe" comes right back. only in theaters april 5th. rated pg. trelegy for copd.

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we must finally hold social media companies accountable. it's time to pass bipartisan legislation to stop big tech from collecting personal data on our kids and teenagers online. ban targeted advertising to children.

welcome back to "morning joe." it's the start of the third hour of "morning joe." it's wednesday, march 22nd. >> willie, baseball starts in a week. >> yes, it does. >> yeah. i was trying desperately to stop us from going straight into trump stuff. >> it was uncharacteristically brief so i was caught off guard. >> this is all on me. i lurched and i apologize. it's like somebody, like, here's a basketball! >> yeah, right in the face. yeah, the world baseball classic, great game last night, japan beating the united states and now we turn the page to a new season, and a lot to think about. the padres loaded out west, and the mets spent money in the

offseason, and we will obsess about the al east from now through october. >> how do you feel about the yankees? >> the rotation is deep, and we have four guys we feel good about sending out, and aaron judge coming off one of the best games in the history of the game. watch out for the orioles again this year. you guys talk them down. >> we talk them down, but i have to say, jonathan, i have been working in spring training, and we have about as good of a squad of 38-year-olds that you ever have seen that we signed this year. and i think -- i'm serious, if anything goes right, we could win -- it's very possible we could look at 72, 73 wins.

you know, we're just there for the love of the game. >> yeah, the red sox leaning hard on veteran savvy. that seems ton the spin from the front office, guys that have been there before over and over and maybe lost bat speed and i think about 72 wins seems about right when you are playing on a team with such juggernauts, and the yankees can hand out million-dollar contracts without thinking twice about it. >> you can too. you just don't. >> the yankees, they would be all living up in john dutton's mansion, you know. the red sox down living in the bunkhouse, like eating cold cereal. it's the haves and the haves

not. it will play out in the al east. willie, very sad. again, we just love the game. we are just there for the love of the game. >> just a bunch of scrappy kids with mounds of money but don't spend it. it's just a bunch of old guys jacking home runs in a softball league. >> i mean -- >> no. >> no to what? >> it's time to move on. >> they have old man strength. you know what i'm talking about. >> old man strength? >> yeah. you ever heard that? >> no, i haven't, and i am glad we had this talk and it's over now. as we get through our top story this hour, the grand jury that

will decide if former president donald trump will face indictment is set to reconvene this morning. garrett haake has more on how things could play out. >> in new york city former president donald trump's legal future is in the hands of a grand jury set to reconvene today on the verge of a historic decision, balancing if there will be a indictment. ahead of a possible indictment law enforcement officials are bracing for protests and stepping up security. former president donald trump also preparing for the optics of a potential indictment. the new york times citing friends and has mused whether he is ready for a perp walk. those close to him also telling the paper that nobody is quite sure whether his remarks are

genuine resignation about what lies ahead. >> they are not coming after me, they are coming after you. i am just standing in their way. >> the possible prosecution by manhattan district attorney, alvin bragg, could center on a $130,000 payment that trump's one-time fixer, michael cohen, made on behalf of trump to stormy daniels to buy her silence about claims of an affair with mr. trump a decade prior. the former president denies any wrong doing. hush money payments are not illegal understate law. any potential indictment could rest on how the payment was accounted for. a possible misdemeanor case or in the legal gamble, bragg could pursue a lower level felony. >> i am holding out hope justice will prevail, and if that happens no case, because it will die on the vine. >> i think in your heart of

hearts you know, too, that you think this is just political. >> you know, in my heart of hearts i look at the -- >> no. >> i look at somebody charged for lying about insurance, and a woman that got charged for returning unpurchased items to lauren taylor and she tried to get a store credit, a shopper, right? and she got charged with this. or a teacher that used a fake covid-19 vaccine card to try and get off from school for one day and she got charged with this, and yet kevin mccarthy, but donald trump, an alleged billionaire who lies about $130,000 in hush money that he gives to a porn star a couple days before a presidential

election, and they are suggesting that's not as important as a couch? or store credit at lauren taylor? they are lying through their teeth because they think people that support them are stupid, and they are not coming after me, they are coming after you, and does he think he's talking to people in the audience, and do all those people pay a porn star to cover up an alleged affair days before a presidential election. if everybody in the office didn't do that, they are not coming after everybody in the audience. they are coming after trump. this doesn't have anything to do with anything else but donald trump. it doesn't have to do with anything else but donald trump breaking the law. i am tired of media and their

bedwetting saying this is not a serious case, oh, why are they bringing this case? and then hearing trump politicians doing the same thing, suggesting, again, that we live in two americas, that there is a judicial system that applies to the rest of america, and then there's a judicial system that applies to donald trump. well, it's time that we end that kind of thinking whether you are in the media trying to relate to trumpers, or whether you are a politician trying to relate to trumpers. it's nonsense. again, mika, a $1,90 couch. >> i know. >> or it's a $130,000 in hush money. it's a $130,000 payoff for hush

money -- >> what i don't understand is if kevin mccarthy or jim jordan might think they could take a leap on this because they can somehow down play it, do they not see what is barrelling down the highway towards donald trump? >> it just keeps getting worse. we will talk about this, but we had last night the news breaking that the special prosecutor went to a judge and said, hey, i need you to pierce attorney/client privilege because a crime was likely committed using that privilege by donald trump and his attorneys, and the judge agreed. that doesn't happen unless there's serious wrong doing. it's the same thing with georgia and the possible racketeering

charges. that doesn't happen. by the way, once again, it's republicans, not democrats, not left wingers, but it's republicans that recorded the phone conversation that will end up most likely taking donald trump down. yet kevin mccarthy and all these other hacks, they just keep playing small ball. they just keep lying. they just keep losing elections. >> and pushing conspiracy theories pushed by donald trump -- i mean, if you can't see everything around you, do you think you should be a congressman? >> they said one thing off camera and another thing on camera. criminal defense attorney, and dave aaronburg, he's back with

us. again, i keep hearing all these people saying this would not happen if it were not donald trump. i have given three examples, they are the simplest examples. >> look at cohen, he went to federal prison for the hush money payments, and the reason donald trump was not indicted with him is because he was the president at the time and there's a policy against indicting a sitting president. do we have equal justice under the law here in our country? it's iconic the biggest critics right now about what alvin bragg is about to do. the ones chanting lock her up, and now that their candidate is

there -- remember, mark pomerantz wrote a book about alvin bragg, but we prosecutors don't do politics and are not intimidated by political pressure and we follow the evidence and law. the law and order folks are suddenly obsessed now with that, and now it applies to people not inside the maga bubble. >> john, you said this past fall you were offered a chance to work and represent former president donald trump and you declined that opportunity. tell us now, if you will, give us your assessment of this case, and in particular where you think things stand and what last-minute wrinkles from the costello testimony may occur? >> i will walk in the lion's

deny and disagree with my good friend, dave, and you, joe, also. having gone through watergate, i believe to my core nobody is above the law. nobody is saying no matter how much one dislikes donald trump, not in the court of the public opinion, but in the legal arena he is titled to the presumption of innocence. some of the cases that joe recited, i have not had a chance to look at those because they are newly reported, but i don't think those were elevated to a felony in what "the new york times" is calling an untested legal theory. what i believe -- you mentioned i turned down respectfully representing former president donald trump, so i am not an apologists for president trump at all, but i think the whole world is watching.

the whole world is watching our criminal justice system and it's the first time if he's indicted that we indicted a former president, so i think we should take our best shot. "the new york times" today has an article about prosecutorial discretion, and they could indict on probable cause but they don't do that, you indict in good faith that there is a conviction without a reasonable doubt. bragg went on reverend sharpton show, and he said he is only looking at the facts and the law, and the facts relies heavily on cohen, and not only has he gone on every television in the world, and i would have pulled his cooperation agreement in a heartbeat. this theory about it being a political contribution that elevates it to a felony, we

can't blame bill barr's justice department for not prosecuting it, because merrick garland had two years as attorney general where they believe if this case was worthy of prosecution, they would have gone to it. there are two other cases that go to the heart of the democracy, and one of them, of course, is the insurrection. if the evidence, again, is -- he's presumed innocent, but if the evidence shows he is guilty, and jack smith is not at all timid. he's subpoenaed mike pence, and he subpoenaed ivanka and jared. he will be thorough rather than quick. the mar-a-lago case, i mean, if evan is going to testify, that's an open and shut case. there are standards that govern prosecution, and every

jurisdiction has them, and the aba standards say even if the evidence supports a conviction a prosecutor is not required to bring such a case, and there are two things they say they can consider, and one of them is the motives of the principle witness against him, michael cohen. it's reported that -- well, he went to jail for donald trump for doing this. he also plead guilty to serious tax evasion, serious bank fraud that had nothing to do with donald trump whatsoever. the law is untested. "the new york times" today wrote an article saying the theory alvin bragg is using is untested. i think it's the wrong case to start with. that's my point of view. >> well, we want -- speaking of going on television, we want to play for you something a trump lawyer said last week about the stormy daniels case.

>> even if you put in your checkbook -- i will use me, if i bought a car and i wrote purchased a horse, that's inaccurate and a lie maybe, but there is no crime there because this filing was not for the purpose of influencing an election, and there was nothing being hidden or an obligation to disclose this to a campaign election committee at all. >> i see. let's compare that to what he said almost exactly five years ago. >> if there's an issue with that payment to stormy daniels being it was made on behalf of the candidate, okay, and it was not declared, that's fair game, unfortunately. if that's the case -- quite frankly, michael cohen again gave rise to suspicion, that doesn't make sense an attorney took out a home equity loan, and

by the way, he didn't tell the client about the settlement agreement, and it's an illegal agreement and fraud if that is, in fact, the case. >> that's a lawyer. how shocking, like lindsay graham and like everybody else in donald trump's life, they say something when their own cameras are supporting trump, but you go back and there's always tape of them undermining their own credibility. >> dave, as john says he thinks it's the wrong one to start with, but i don't think d.a.s and investigators and the doj and georgia officials are lining their cases up. i think everybody is following the law. you can only hope they are following the law, and a crime, ultimately, is a crime, no matter which one you start with. >> yeah, and i love my friend, john, and i want to rebut something he said, or at least

try to. there were good reasons why the department of justice did not charge donald trump at the time. number one, at the time there was -- he was president and there's that internal policy of not indicting a sitting president, and then bill barr then ordered them to stop the investigation relating to trump, and then third, after biden took over, the doj had bigger fish to try and they were starting the massive investigation over january 6th, so this was seen as too small. there are reasons trump was not charged at the time. but state prosecutors can go when they have the facts and the law is on their side. >> dave, thank you so much. john, we always appreciate you being here and hope you will come back very soon. we would love to keep talking, and we have a senator with us that has to get back. please come back this week.

commerce, science and transportation will hold a hearing on rail safety. it's in response to last month's train derailment and toxic chemical spill in palestine, ohio. the ceo is set to testify. >> let's bring in the chair of the committee, commerce science of transportation, the democratic senator. thank you so much for being with us. what you have learned since this tragedy in ohio? how could this have been avoided? >> we are going to hear from the head of the national transportation safety board, and i think she will outline how more investments in technology may have prevented this accident. what we are seeing is an increase in the accident rate. we're seeing longer trains, and

we are seeing less investment in the inspection side. we want -- if we want to have the best safety system, whether that's in aviation or rail, then you have to have the most modernized safety equipment that will help you implement that. you have to have the minimum amount of staffing to help you accomplish it. >> senator, good morning. the railway safety act that has been put out there is introduced on bipartisan basis, and some republicans pushed back and said we need to wait until we get the ntsb report to find out what happened in east palestine, and are you confident that piece of legislation can make it through the senate? >> well, we work on a bipartisan basis, and that's how we will get things done. but the bill shows you these are investments we should have made years ago. i think the two of them working

together, and we will hear from the governor today, mike dewine, and we are going to see there's no politics in safety. it's about saying if you are a carrier of any sort of the public transportation or a product that we need in our communities that we have to have the highest safety standards. i think we are going to hear clearly today why that's a bipartisan investment. >> senator, talk to us if you will about the proposal to up the penalties that could come for these rail operators in terms of an accident, and would that include paying for a potentially long-term health care for people who are sickened by something, a toxic spill. >> i think what we need to look at today is the response to these accidents. what we are seeing is our communities can be quite vulnerable. i introduced legislation in 2015 that we didn't get passed because in our state, the state of washington, and we just had a derailment just the other day,

that you have oil trains and you have a great propensity for danger if they implode in a community. we want the safety teams to have the right equipment on the ground and the community to have the right response ground, and to be able. similar to way the oil trust fund works, it makes sure there are resources on the ground to help a community respond. >> washington senator, maria cantwell. thank you. >> thank you. coming up, we will have presidential historian on. plus, do some democrats on capitol hill see a downside to the former president being charged? we will get to that. and then the senate foreign

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♪♪ we should ask him to weigh in on what can we learn from history when it comes to approaching the scandal and donald trump? do you think that it is just another blip and he survives it and he can use the negative attention to further victimhood status and actually benefit from this? >> i don't think that's happening, and i think what joe said about whistling past the graveyard, this really is false bravado. what else would he say? i think what this is is here is a situation where he could be in four major prosecutions or

conceivably even more at the same time. you got a guy that is not exactly mr. health and strength in his late 70s. i think joe here would agree with me that even one prosecution tends to wear someone down, fighting off people that could conceivably put you in jail, to do -- sorry to keep saying conceivably, but we have to remember this has not happened. four at the same time will run down just about anybody. and even trump supporters that stuck with him all this time famously, the thing about shooting somebody on 5th avenue and so on, and i think if they see him going into court and seeing him fingerprinted, and it's on day after day and on cable tv and see him arriving at the courthouse and going away, that's the way it will change

the way they look at him. trump is claiming to his supporters, i am the elitist fighting on your behalf. what is the elitist paying $130,000 to a porn star? >> my god, man of the people. nothing about it, but then, again, the whole thing has been so bizarre. you know, michael, it's fascinating that you look at all of this and in the past, trump's always been able to say, sort of, you know, come on, i am not perfect but are you really going to vote for biden? i am not perfect, but are you really going to vote for -- are you really going to vote for hillary clinton? here we have basically, you

know, sort of the equivalent of maybe one of the toughest gop primaries since 1976, reagan and ford. you get this guy coming in -- i am not comparing him to reagan, but please, everybody, save your tweets for somebody that gives a damn. suddenly, as you said, where people see trump getting arrested the first time, getting arrested the second time, and if he gets arrested the third time -- they are not going to go, yeah, i will go with a guy that keeps getting indicted over joe biden, they will go, well, ron desantis, he has not been arrested and he actually won in 2022. he was a reagan-like figure in florida, if you just look at the landslide what reagan was in 1966 in california -- >> big landslide --

>> -- ron desantis was in 2022 in florida. 2022 was a hellacious year for republicans except for desantis in florida. are they really going to give a pass to a guy that has lost six years in a row? >> yeah, i agree with that. the other thing is, you know, the next president and the current president, we have got real problems. china and russia are getting together. there's a war in ukraine. there are all sorts of complicated economic problems, god forbid, another pandemic. do you really want a next president like donald trump distracted by all his legal problems and his financial problems after fenning off prosecutions possibly on all these fronts? i don't think so. once again, historically, donald trump is in a category of his own. if he gets indicted, that will have never happened to any other president, and you have got

every other president in one category, and donald trump once again in his own category of the notorious. coming up, ron desantis doubling down on his recent criticism of donald trump. we will take a look at what he had to say in a new interview with british broadcaster, piers morgan. "morning joe" will be right back. choosing a treatment for your chronic migraine - 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more - can be overwhelming. so, ask your doctor about botox®. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they even start. it's the #1 prescribed branded chronic migraine treatment. so far, more than 5 million botox® treatments have been given to over eight hundred and fifty thousand chronic migraine patients. effects of botox® may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing,

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ron desantis is doubling down on his criticism of donald trump. the florida governor sat down with a wide-ranging interview with piers morgan.

according to the british broadcaster, desantis slammed trump over his character failings, chaotic leadership style and his handling of the covid pandemic, which we do have news on this morning. morgan notes that desantis also criticized trump's chaotic management style, and he said i get personnel and the government that have the agenda of the people and share our agenda. you bring your own agenda in, you're gone. desantis went on to say the way we run the government, i think, with no daily drama and focus on the big picture and put points on the board. the issue of nicknames come up during an interview and fox news got a preview of that moment. >> what is your favorite nickname? ron desanctimonious -- >> i don't know how to spell

desanctimonious, but i kind of like it, it's long and it has a lot of vowels. you can call me whatever you want, just as long as you also call me a winner. >> wow. wow. >> willie -- >> going after him. >> yeah, trump would rather be perp walked 1,000 times than to have fox news' piers morgan, ron desantis, mocking him and laughing at him. look at that. it's such a nice little warm family get together, and fox, the "new york post," the murdaugh empire, i mean, given ron desantis whatever he wants and desantis sitting there laughing at trump, and call me whatever you want just as long as you call me a winner. that hurts for a guy that has

lost six times in a row. >> as you suggested, it's the coordinator editor, and it's ron hits don with a picture there of the governor. that is the tone that gets under the skin of donald trump the most, which is being laughed at. that is the posture that ron desantis seems to have figured out now over the last few days, at least, which is i don't have time for this, i don't have time to be in a social media fight with a former president. i am down here winning in florida by 30 points, and his posture is i don't have time for that guy, and i don't know what the nickname is but i am down here doing my job. >> i would point out that ron desantis's poling has gone down.

now he's back in the news, and is he going to successfully use his victimhood narrative, and is that something that is going to pick up with republicans? >> i mean, look at the split screen right there, jonathan. donald trump just looks tired. he really does. this is not ageism. there are times that he is in his mid-70s, and he has looked tough, strong and -- he's tired. >> confident. >> he's not confident, and the crowds dwindled, and you have desantis, a massive landslide win in florida. not only that, he made sure republicans won across the state. they have a super majority in

the legislature. again, on the night that donald trump is blamed for losing senate races and governors races in pennsylvania, senate races in arizona where his candidates were losing, and senate races in nevada, senate races in georgia, i mean, donald trump, all he does is lose, lose, lose, and he lost in 2017, '18, '19, '22. ron desantis has a simple question to ask voters, republicans, do you want to win or lose? look what i did in 2022. look what he did in 2022. look what he did in six elections before that. aren't you tired of losing? i know how to win, follow me. that's such a compelling message. it will be hard for trump to get around that. >> yeah, and certainly right now, desantis is the beneficiary

of all the anti-trump forces co around him. desantis has ignored the attacks, and he has chosen to start engaging and doing so now where he is laughing and not hitting back with criticisms, but he's no longer ignoring him altogether. we heard his comments from the stage the other day about the indictment and the porn stars and now this interview with piers morgan. he is the one republican that is doing it, and he's the one republican that is using this moment, and desantis is the one republican breaking with donald trump, and all the others are falling in line, and ron desantis is trying to use this to create daylight.

whether or not that will play when he starts ramping up, whether what works in florida will work in iowa, new hampshire and south carolina, we will see. in the same interview, he made it very clear he is all but certain to jump in and run when the florida state legislation session ends. coming up, bob menendez joins us as chinese president, xi jinping and vladimir putin meet for a third day of talks in moscow. "morning joe" will be right back. ♪♪ ♪ ...by, you know how i feel. ♪ if you're tired of staring down your copd,... ♪ it's a new dawn, ♪ ♪ it's a new day... ♪ ...stop settling. ♪ ...and i'm feelin' good. ♪ start a new day with trelegy. no once-daily copd medicine has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy makes breathing easier for a full 24 hours,

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alex! mateo, hey how's business? great. you know that loan has really worked wonders. that's what u.s. bank is for. and you're growing in california? -yup, socal, norcal... -monterey? -all day. -a branch in ventura? that's for sure-ah. atms in fresno? fres-yes. encinitas? yes, indeed-us. anaheim? big time. more guacamole? i'm on a roll-ay. how about you? i'm just visiting. u.s. bank. ranked #1 in customer satisfaction with retail banking in california by j.d. power. our next guest has spent decades reporting from china, to the massacre in tiananmen's square following protest in 1989, to the united kingdom's

handover of hong kong in 1997. joining us now, long-time foreign correspondent, he's now a nonresident senior professor at the university of california, and author of the new book "assignment china: an oral history of american journalists in the people's republic." >> glad to have you with us, mike. my god, what you have seen through the years. tell us what we are going to see in the book? >> the book is based on the 100 interviews i have done in the past 15 years, from 1945, the start of the chinese civil war right through the through the c pandemic up to the present day. the idea thatiñmost folks who watch the news or read the news have no idea how the news got there. yone in the news ñusinessq knows, the process by which

people report, write and transmit the news is c"@tral t■ what folks see. so, i thought itt( would beñi interesting to get people who have been on the frontúy,s line the peoplei] who told the china story to tell their own story. what was it like to be in shanghai when the communist army rolled in in 1949. press planeçó to china with nix. &op try tot(q cover china under tight repression and restrictions that existjf today. names that people will have read or watched telling behind theñr scenes stories of how they did what they did. it's such a remarkable, such axd tumultuous history.q a viol.$)u history under mao,lp even as theyñiçp moved beyond. you talked aboutw3!u■lp tiananm square, the handover of hong

kong. the last couple of years, the crackdown in hong kong. covid. what did they tell you or what did you learn about howm/■ difficultok it was -- we janis mackey frayer when she reports out of beijing, totalitarian government, but it takes a certain type of reporter to cover the news there. >> the theme inw3 assignme't cha is the en/$fss struggle that america and other foreignokok journalists have had to go through to penetrate thexd secrq that the chinese communist party )ty wants toe1eq$rs(ose its own nar chinese people and now with ñrr china's clout on the rest of the world. an endless penetrate that. it's ebbed andt( flowed dependi on internal conditions on china, which have gone from extreme repression to relative relaxation and back now to the

very, very tight controls that chinese leader xi jinping has imposed. i think today conditions for th1 american and foreign press in the people&q republic are more difficult than at any time since changes in the 1970s, which goes relations in the u.s. it's a tough beat but crucially u given thet1oçe1 deterioration in relations between china and the u.s. >> i look at china throughq açó lens of personal experience, over 40 years ago, was it?i] when my fathere1 had a state dinner that &i(pened in our private home, working on normalizationúof relations with china. can you talk about how things havee1 changed or digressedfá s

that important moment? ijf thinkñi t' áq' mings, dengq1 xiaoping, i think china was aq valuable strategic partner in the coldçó war against the sovi one thing that is complicated in the tensions between thewm+■ u.% and china i]today, unlike theñi connectedness from thexdñi unit states and china !u■aunnow.w3&ñ( there's billions ofñiq dollarsyv americans livi& there. there's all kinds ofjfçó things "ttjuáá j are atqñrxd loggerhea.

that makes the notion of a conflict much more troublesomex on the people involved and from a policy point of view. >> we're shew president xi shvu)jt solidarity with president putin. what shouldxd an american audiee make of the chinese president wárr'g toe1 moscow to meet russa after a year of russia's + west is on the side of ukraine,4 ;ñx'frastructure and civilians. what does this mean for us? >> xi jinping will not help the relationship with theñi united states. the chinese and russians see themselves as allies to counter !■ see asq the u.s.-led world orde. while we don't know a lot of

details about the xi visit, it's fair to say on the economic -mp cooperation. how far it will go militarily, we don't know. it's complicatedw3 but china is economically dependent on its trade with the west and the united states. on the oneq hand, xi and putin want to stand up against e1 washington. on the other hand, xi needseo functio a■ ties with europe and with the u.s. because the chinese economy is in trouble now. it's not quite as simple aok calculation as it looks. >> do you think china and president xi has the juice to influence vladimir putin services the warñr inñi ukraine goes? he said he brought a peace proposal with him. putin says he reviewedxd it wit great consideration. does xi have theçó influence to bring this warñr in some way ton end? >> i don't know that he does or that he wants to.r i think there are benefits to

china of the warqxdçó continuin. rá's distracting for the united% the u.s. isçó pumping military hardware into ukraine which it might be otherwise using to beef %=9■ in the pacific, givenxd concerns about conflict with china over ó[■tai. the peace plan is widely seen as a nonstarter. xi has not spoken withfá ukrainn leader zelenskyy yet in all the months they've been -- the conflict has been going on. that's posturing that a lot ofñ people will se■ through. coming up, stories from añ life spent listening. the host of npr's "all things i] considered"t(bo áoj brand-new book. "morning joe" is coming right back. te to severe rheumatoid arthritis or active psoriatic arthritis after a tnf blocker like humira or enbrel, rinvoq is different and may help. stand up to your symptoms with rinvoq. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that tackles pain,

stiffness, swelling. for some, rinvoq significantly reduces ra and psa fatigue. it can stop further irreversible joint damage. and rinvoq can leave skin clear or almost clear in psa. that's rinvoq relief. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin cancer; death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least one heart disease risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq as serious reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. ask your rheumatologist for rinvoq. rinvoq. make it your mission. learn how abbvie could help you save.

welcome back to "morning joe." a live look at los angeles,i 6z0 a.m. out5a■ on the west coast. it's 9:00 a.m. on the east coast. it's the fourth hour of "morning joe." >> is that all it is? >> we'rer there. jerry's kids are havingfá a gre■ morning. don ricklesçóq wg"t be in in th next 15 minutesñi about how -- >> it is ñour hours. >> by the way -- >> we're on the fourth. why are you eating oatmealxdçó again? >> i'll be regisw3 again for second. i'll tell a story. so -- so, i'yiok almost embarrad to admit this. we always talk abouti] how bad but i've discovered these instagramjf reels about 12 year late. >> i don't think they're reels. >> what doxdv4(qv call them? >> goñi !sg it'sñi just video on instagram. >> aren't they called reels?

>> i think they are. >> stories? >> i think they're called reels. >> any way, i bring up don rickles,xd but then it( remembeç to carson, he saidxd "ixd walk aok restaurant and don ricklese comes upçó and whispers to me ai goes, frank,lp i have a new gil friend, would you help me out here? i want to impress her, could you come up to my table aboute1 halfway through the mealr djy it's so good to see you. sinatraxdt( says, sure.xd "so he gets halfway through his meal,lpjf gets up and goes over don rickles table and says don, it's so good tolp see you. rickles looksjfx$$u( angrily an we're havingw3lp xdezejáñ >> i -- once every two days i

closest to carson, big, wide collar. >> telling that story. i also get someçó rickles roast i also get someçó rickles roast i get rickles, michael jordanlph tells you everything about my lp life. >> yeah. i get that. i know this wilñ shock i]you. i get a ton of will farrell. >> sure. >> comes up all the time. >> you want to keep chewing? >> this is great stuff. by the way,çó speaking oflp comedians, have you seen the chris rock special? >> i have. i finished it onxd a plane the other day. >> he goes there. >> you have to wait until the end. he really goes there. >> fáwhoo! >> on the will smith stuff. >>lp you know what's really -- >> makes some strong points. l you k we'rexd starting to see this wi comedians, a lot ofñi comedians are doing this.

chris rocki] does it, chapelle does it, bill maher does it5a■ the time. audiences love, they love when they go after woke çóculture. like, this has become añr stapl. there's something out there, it's just something whereq -- what do they say? politics is downstream of culture. there's something there that these comedians know that a lot of americans hate wokeym■ çócul they're fed up with the woke culture, and they're always easy laughs to get. >> yeah. maybe a lot of americans are afraid to criticizeoguját culturw■ and they feel for chris rock an■ chapelle. >> chris rock certainly had a crowded,c packedxdr

roaring with laughter. i thought it was really impressive he did that live, that performance w it was so incredible. he make me look atxd the will smith incident again.k horrible, then you hear him talking about it, you're ju >> absolutely. >> how do we make the segue froó >> you eat your granola. >> sinatra.t(xd chairman of the board. when you look atçó him, he has e spread collar,q slouched --q t( johnny, i'm there. like,çóñr sinatra, you lived th life like the time and you died just in time.çó sinatra would notñre1 bodee1 we 2023. he livedñ he and carson,çó rickles, that whze group, they lived inñi tha

timet( and theire1 lives. >> ar=d you waiting forñi me to stop? >> it makes mexd sad seeing joe eat like a bird. that' a platter ofñr chick-fil-a. >> notçó chick-fil-a.fá i got four eggse1 over easy slathered on topçó of a stake r. a lot ofqxdçó biscuits and grav. gravy. >> we'll let youq eat and start with a recap of president trump's growing legal issues. there are many. first, the hush money case in e=i- indictment at any time. there's a $1.6xdjf million finea criminal tax fraude1 scheme. when it comes toé@■ classified documents, abcçó news is reportg

that prosecutors and special counsel had compelling and preliminary evidence that the former (esident knowingly é@lá misledqfá his own attorneys. there's an investigation into the january 6thp,■ insurrection and then the georgia election interference and the infamous phone call in whichñrxde1 the president is caught on tape state of georgia. ájt(z claims that the hush money the former president is purely political, there'sr the manhattan d.a.'s officeñi falsifying reports against other people in new york as well. among them, alp married couple r attempting to recoveru value of various itemsqjf of property that were lost in a house fire after the couple claimed $5,000 for a leather couch they purchased for $1,900.

couch they ¥mqx for returning 0. unpurchasedw3u card to get the daycñr off of w for vaccine sideok effects. ke ken, what are youjflp watching this afternoon? s1î9 behind closed doors. ñi t the grand jury is voting toxdñ indict donald trump. we won't know that untilr laura jared just got this statistic out ofñi the manhatta d.a.'s office.ñk= charges as feloniesxd since he took office in 2022 against 29 individuals andlp companies. in order for it to be alplp xdf

it needs to be committed with ■ intent tolplp cover up anothe crime, in this case, we believe the crime they'll assert here is an illegal campaign contribution. to daniels was essentially a campaignt( contribution becó5(e running for president. that case has some pitfalls. there's añiçhistory here. former vice presidential candidate, john edwards, also running for president and who hadi]q donors hand him about $900,000, which he then paid to his then mistress to cover up that fáaffair. he was chargedxd by the federal government withe1e1i]w3r he acquitted on some of those

thee1 manhattan d.a. has state d federale1 charges on there to consider. it's ae1 complicated case. we're watching to see whether he brings the e1indictment. john fell, who i like ve)y much, saying this is a unique, strange and bizarre approach by the manhattan d.a.t( you justçó pointed out 117 peo( have been5a■ -- there's been 11f these felony charges, more thanq that we've been saying allxdjf morni we've beend morning of chargñ&8q beingçó brt against peopleñi for falsifying j in the first now, maybeokíhpe unique situati is taking that from a misdemeanor to aq felony as you described.

it becomes a felony in you do it but still, the fact is, if we'r■ living in a land where everybody isv falsifying business records in the first degree have been used against people who lied about a covid vaccine, people who lied aboutu a shopper who went into a lord ó taylor's lied about purchasing items from there and getting store credit. those were american citizens who were charged with falsifying business records inw3cc the fir degree.i] i don't understand why peopleñr are freaking ouá so much saying this is soñi radical and strang whenokr brought 117 of these cases asçó felonies and misdemeanors.

so we can't charge trump if only it's a misdemeanor when wee1 chargedxd others for doing the same thing. help me understand. >> these statistics make the case that you can -- youlp can argue about whether this is a crime and whether a former president should be charged in this manner, but youñrxd cannot argue this is selective prosecution. there is a record ñihere. thijçó officexd brought this ch against 29 individuals or so. there's a long history ofjgátrx new york prosecutors doing this as youe1 cited in the just security blog. it's absolutely a prosecution rd the context witht( trump here i southern district of new york looked at this case we believe after trump lefte1 office, whene could have beenlp indicted andw decided to pass on it in part michael çócohen's credibility a■

witness. there is alsotúd record thate1 s may notxd beñr the strongest ca that couldçó be brought against donald trump. there's a process here. it isn't just alvin w3bragg, there's a group of citizensxd ao brought in there to be grand jurors. they have to sign off on this. that's thew#óñi beauty of ourtv. there's a saying thatñr a prosecutor could indict a hamfá sandwich, butñi that's an oversimplification. these citizens havei] to sign o on this indictment in order for >> ken dilanian, thank you very much. while democratszv■ are push to see former presidentfá donal trump heldçó accountable, some fear this could be a loser for thejf d.a. and undermine moree1% significant cases.q alexei has more on that.

>> in conversations i've had with folks, democratic operatives, trump critics, there's a growing sense ofe1çó unease on some on the leftñi th trump's first big legalc test could undermine the rest of theo feeding into thefá broader nd - narrative he's beenfá pushing tt him. they don't thinkñthat it's a bad thing for thelpñi party, but the thr in at;/s way that someñi say al bragg has not. some think bragg is a flawed+■ megger, that's because people close to him say he's not concerned with the politics of it all and wants to ignore those things happening. t■w republicans inñrc washington,my weaponizing this against the entire democratic party, fund-raising off of it, launching unprecedented federal investigations into a local office. democrats are stuck having to

wait to respondçó to something that haj not happened yet but they feel the narrative has already gotten away from them. >> donald trump does seem to have already settled on a narrative, a narrative of if this can happen to me, itok can happen to you.ñrñrxdok support from supporters ont( th pitch. have you heard whatxd may happe if donald trump is indicted bywh alvin bragg? do they h a game plan for what their strategy willlpçó be? >> democrats -- onexd of the reasons they insist on speaking privately in part is because they think if they speak publicly about this, especially ahead of anok officialq decisio ahead of anok officialq decisio it will p)>v iná narrative that they are doing this from a politically-motivated decision. democrats have been watching it closely, this idea that no one president is said we heard what i continue to hear is they want to wait to see what thee1

second crime could be if presented. it's key if this is moved from a misdemeanor toçó a felony for an process. a lot of it depends on what happens from d.a. bragg, which details. >> alexi, the white house is signaling they don't want to say much at all.t( they want to be seen as removed and separate from the process. ifá wantt( your taket( on what democrats plan tolp do not abou indictments but the house from republicans to muddy the lpñrwa, to attempt to call bragg and his possiblyxd cut off funding. what is the level of concern from democrats about the political games tha4■d republics are playing? >> they're used to it now, but this is an unprecedented investigation byq house republicans. d.a. e1t(bragg'sçó office and d bragg himself said wefá won't b

games and stuff coming out of washington. it doesn't seem likely we'll see him in washington testifying, especially with an ongoing investigation. i think republicans will have tó rely on biden'slp doj to"n■ sor enforce some sort of subpoena to ensureñi he will come here. democrats are planning for what they'll respond withfá when the have the details knowq republicans onçó the hill and e1 outside of washington have been whipping the narrative up around themqjf already. >> we may learn more today in this investigation.1i táu)(p& mccammond. the federal reserve is facing new questions about whether it should continue to raise interest rates in the middle of a banking>ñb■ crisis. a decision by the fed is expected at 2:00 p.m. eastern timeñ today.i]xdt(ñr!u■

let's bring in andrew ross sorkin. what is the consensus? >> the consensus is a quarter point. nothing. i think there'se1 a chance that you getu chairman powell says part of our responsibility iwúphe stability of the financial system, and we don't want to upend that. he may go that route. on the 25 basis point path, if the commentary around it. if he says effectively i'm going this path in part because i have seen deposits and i've been concerned about deposit flight, but the deposits are staying wher éhey are and i feel comfortable about that, and i don't plan toñi raisee1 rates ie uch more datañi raisee1 rates ie sáqq(endent, that might calmfá folks. but there'sçó a balancing act he'll try to do. he does not go 25 basisxd points, there

axd behavioralxd science to all this, if he says i'm not doing anything, does thatt( make the public more encouragedxd or mor panicked? do they say if he's not doing anything, maybe it's worse than we thought. these are the things that i think he and the fed are trying to weigh and we will probably be hearingñie1 -- we know we'll be hearing from them atw3 2:00, bu xd that that will make the difference. >> i know you heard on çóçóq "squawkbox" and we'reñbñearing again this morningq that we hav a mini banking crisis here because of the fed, the fed continuingxd to raise rates. what's the link between those twofá things? >>lp what's happened here isg let me go back.t( a lot of banks over the past several years have taken or bought long-maturity bonds at these very low interest rates.

interest rates keep goi,g up and up and fáqup. that mey have less value today. they will pay off in teni] year but not tomorrow. if they had to be soldxdi] toda they would be soldt( atñi a los. the higher interest rateso■go, those banks who are holdingxd those longer bondslpe1 effectiv are losing money. if you raise rates, youi] make e loss worse. the questionq is whoe1 you hold orq that ultimately.e1 you hold you can make anq argument. the fed told everybody whatçó they'd be doing. the mistake is with?;■ manageme% who did these things and with the regulatoryñr superviseds wh that's a bit of the connection and the debatet(i] that's happe ross sorkin. we understand the ma.cqm■ are k really more of aú!!y%=i1■ science.

we learned that watching "trading places" when eddie murphy talked to thñ duke brothers. talked to randolph and mortimer duke. we often go down to wall street, have seminars and pick apartxd & duke commodity brockers. >> what movie? >> ."■"trading places." come on, you never sawd murphy? >> q+■no. >> feeling xdgood. >>lp andrew, thank5a■ you. >> i think we all about life andw3 behavioral science by eddiet( murphy, whate didt( and dan aykroyd. you're not buyingko■ that? >> no,i] i'm ñik thank you very much. >> i to show mika. >> i think we started that and i time for a look at the

morning headlines. los angeles school employees are on strike lo&■ a second day. support staff is demanding a 30% playi] raise. the strike began yesterdaye1 morning. in a show of support, teachers represented by a different union also joined the picket lines. has now asked the union tot( return to the negotiating table. we'll watch that. a new united nations report finds 26% of the world's population does not have access to safe drinking water. 46% of people also lack access toi]q basice1w3 sanitation. the u.n. is hoping to providexd cleane1fáq drinking water and sanitation to everyone on earth by i]2030. and shortages of critical

medications continue to worsen. a government report found ñ drug shortagesjf increased by nearly 30% between 2021xd and 2022. it citedlp economic drivers tha rely on foreign sources andxd supply chainjf@rsues as the primaryl:ó drivers forlp the pr. relying on countries such as china to provide medication also poses a nationalñr security risá nearly one-third of the critical drugs in short supply are fáç$@% antibiotics. >> this keepsi] happening. we saw it during covid, our overreliance on china forçó medication, for masks, we see ic mñwe're belatedlyq +r'g to havea little morei]xd independence fr china xdthere. kate sent me a storyçóxd about

once again, depending on china too much. the bidenxd administration is trying to bring some of that abilities fromu re every pill.fá we have got toçó become more aligned in this country. coming zv■up, secretary of state antony blinken is set to testify before the senate foreign relations committee. we'll get a1+g preview of thefá hearings from senator bobt(p,■ á menendez. and the hostfá of nb■npr's things considered" ari shapiro journalism. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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xi jinping and vladimir putin met for a second day yesterdayçó begi'ng with an elaborate choreographedxd çówal and i]handshake. it set thexd theme for much of w the day would go. in totalñi xi and putynr signed agreemensa■ during axd ceremony the kremlin. thexd "new york times" sites an expert describingxd theseok ag)eementsçó as being pretty th. the senate foreignñi relations committee will hold a hearing oó american diplomacy and global will be sekrvtary of statexd anton)x1%9-9ñ joining us now,xd the chair of e foreign relationse1ñii] committ democratic senator bob melendez of new t(jersey. >> what are youñi interested in hearin■ from secretary blinken about? >> clearly, if you look at the agreements that mika was just talking about, they're

overwhelmingly in china's favor. 9 =q■ of outflow into china, no return investment intow3 russia. putin'st(i] continuing= u become xi's junior partner. he's doing so out of necessity. china for its part ultimately clearly needs to takelpçó advan of that but upholds putin's invasion and war crimes and it peacemaker. i want to explore the questions /(of how we deal with the china challenge from tv%÷q perspectiv of thexd department of state. of course, an update on our conflict in ukraine as well as questions about democracy and "t!efore wer>úu÷ move on to tha especially ukraine, just curious continuing on the subject o&ñ china and these agreements and this public show ofe1 support f vladimir putin.

for xi given the interdependence with the >> for xi, the old adage birds oflp a feather flock tot)q), he needs another authoritarian to latch on to. he cy junior partner. he's clearly establishing that. going toñi china, which theyjf definitely need. so, chinalp isi]i]ñi really kil reputationqht■ internationally,s no peacemaker. it0l■ goes to show the global nature of our china challenge. it's systemic across all different elements of our national interests and national security. that's a lot of what we want to

explore today. >> mr. chairman classify china then? i think a lot of americas watched that, watched russia attack civilians, structure and everything else in ukraine of the last year, they sayñiq wait minute, china is rushing into moscow, the presidentq wants to be seen publicly for three days standing in solidarity with him, what do we do with that as a country? >> clearly, it's a strategic opponent of thei] unráed states. there's5a■ no question to that. that's why what we have to do is in some elements we have to decoupleok our economies. they're not going to doñr itñr meát past of democratic2ald republicanñi administrations le us into this economic relationship with china fueled their military industrial complex and at the same time created this challengeñrxdñi th

we continue to think about the taiwan makes xd95% of all the semiconductors and chips. everything we use that chips in it. we cannot allow china toxd corn that market and put us at risk as a result. tha2g

years. it hasn't gottene1 bigger while the department oer defense -m■óu look atf7q■ -- you add a zero to thñ state depy$o5q■ budget, you're still not there with the d.o.d. in this era of competition with the chinese going aroundok the we don't even have postsxd uju)ju can the united states better fund and support the state department? >> this is a great ñiquestion. exactly part of whatlp we'll explore with the secretary. china has more embassies and di/d globe thay the united states of america has. what does that mean? it means chineseçó diplomats fr the largest to the smallest there influencing those goodsi] sold there and trying t get thoseq countries to align with china on the questions that we care about so much in terms of peace andfá security. so, we need toñi resource the

state department. i havexd urged the biden i think there's a $7 billion overall set aside to dealo$u)u$ the china challenge. if it's appropriately used, then that's a good beginning to resource the challenges we have. states of america5a■ñii]fái] ou pet out-0l■competed in the world, and if you want to live in china's world, you will t you can loveñ and how many children you can have and be minded by the state. i don't think most people in the world want that choice. >> i]senator, good e1morning. your reaction toq new;o)ç this morning, north korea has launchedt(w3 multiple cruise5a■ missilesñr towards eastern wate perjf south yómrea. this, of coursecomes during a ñi

u.s./south korea joint military exercise. there's been a real escalation in the number of tv%(e missile launches fromxdt(ok pyongyang.ñr is this just typical kimçó jongn temper tantrum or isñ2hááá)r'g going on here? >> kim jong-un wants attention and not onlywthat, helpñwants certain benefits and he does destabilization by firing off these missiles. these particular missiles are being fired at a time when we're a tantrums to a more dangerous level. level. hing we have to do -- h china challenge. chinat( is the onet( entity cle propping up kim jong-un and north korea. as long as we have this type of conflict, itxd will be difficul t]etok china to play.

international community has to ratchet up thexd challenges tha north koreaqt( has so it doesn' continue tolpçó act this okway. >>xd senator bob menendez, than you. appreciate you coming on the show before the hearing. coming up, we'llçó get you caughthu' on a trial in utah that involves gwyneth paltrow and a+■i]q retired optfometrist. = "morning joe" will be right back.

gwyneth paltrow is entering day two of a trial alleging that she crashed into a man while skiing. courtroom yesterday. she is being sued by a retired optometrist claiming paltrow left the scene of añr collisionn

park city. kpayñ gwyneth paltrow on trial, hef from thefá cameras as she a utahok courtroom forñi the fi day of proceedings. the oscar winner is being sued $30 crashing into dr. terry sanderson in 2016, and he said causing permanent brain damage. f what was dangerous.b.■ she knew it was reckless. >> an acquaintance ofqlpq sande explaining thenb■ situation.ñiev >> she slammed into him. >>qñi how hard? >> ver)( hard. >> reporter: craig< ■q ramon sa paltrowñi quickly got didn't speak to anyone as he

tended to his injured friend. >> i said do you know where youi are. in he shook his head andu no. >> reporter: x and six xdwomen. >>ñi we are defending a false allegation and we need your w3 help. we believe it to be utter bs. >> reporter: the defensei]xd co) suing for $1 claimingxdt( paltr was freaked out by the crash that they say sanderson#rcaused. >> suddenly she sees two skis appearq between herçóxd skis. and a man comesr her. they're not going fast.c on. am i beingt( assaulted? >> after the juryi] hears andw3s believe hasq the more credible - story, notz( just about the actl ⌝=

>> reporter: ñrxdpaltrow's atto claiming any health challenges the 76-year-old now suffers from are due to the normal aging process and pre-existing process notw3 causedñi by >> >> coming up, ari shapiro standing by. the award-winning journalist joins us next on "morning joe." rinvoq is a once-daily pill that tackles pain, stiffness, swelling. for some, rinvoq significantly reduces ra and psa fatigue. it can stop further irreversible joint damage. and rinvoq can leave skin clear or almost clear in psa. that's rinvoq relief. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin cancer; death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least one heart disease risk factor have higher risks.

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welcome back to "morning joe." of moste1 popular radio news progrs every weekday ari shapiro things considered"xdçóq with ne commentary andnb■ xdfeatures. e's taking a trip around res. theq world to reveal thexd stor behind these heartwarming,

sometimesfá heartbreaking narratives. the book is titled "best nice to have you. >> nice to be here. >>nb■ congratulations on the bo% i want to talk about some specific5a■ stories, i love the broadlpñiq themeó[■ which is co in a time when we feel so much f division. >> people ask how i stay so optimistic after so much going people i met who give me qñrhop who give me faith in humanity who remind me we have so much more in common with each other than thev differentiate us from each other. >>xd it's so important. ut oni] social media, if you have the5a■xd5a■ tv on all go we're as divided as we've ever been.

you step out of that t(bubble. >> there are powerful forces trying to convince us that people who disagree with us are our enemies. we don't have to learn a new skill to listen to one another o and recognize what we have i common with one another. we have > ari, i know your voice, but then to hear theñi was formative for you. background made you uniquely

gift you have and i'm just curious what do you credit that to? not feeling like pushed aside,

abandoned, bitter despite the fact that you had to -- man, you had to go down some rapids, right? for your first 12, 13 years in school. >> i'm going to embarrass my parents right now because just before i came on set, they sent me and my brother an email. my brother is doing my book event in seattle where he lives. my parents live in portland. my parents said we wanted to come up to the seattle one but we got our dates wrong and forgot that we committed to delivering meals to the seattle homeless. there's certainly something in my upbringing that teaches me to believe in the goodnessness of people. as journalists when we show up and talk to people on the worst day of their lives, we also see the people who are trying to make life better and trying to help those around them, and those are the people who give me hope. those are the people whose stories i latch onto. >> hey, ari, it's jonathan,

congrats. one of the stories is your own in terms of the formation of pink martini, a band that you are with actor alan cumming created during the height of the culture war. >> there's the band pink martini from portland, oregon, and also the actor alan cumming and i created a two-man cabaret show which we've been doing since 2019. when i'm with pink martini it's like a little orchestra. the lead singer is a woman, and i make guest appearances with them as a singer. the first place i ever sang with pink martini was the hollywood bowl in front of 18,000 people. with alan, he and il6 show together where we basically share the stage for 90 minutes, sing a bunch of songs, make each other laugh, tell stories and hopefully entertain the audience

as much as we entertain each other. >> we'd like to hear you sing at the hollywood bowl next, and now we love reading about you in the pages of this book. the best strangers in the world available now. ari shapiro who has great parents obviously. >> thank you for having me. >> time for some final thoughts, joe and mika. >> first of all, i'm inspired by his story and my gosh, he just really answered the question talking about his parents. mika and i are looking at the d.c. circuit today, some crazy stuff going back and forth there. mika, there's some speculation on things that we won't get into, but i will just say that it seems the trump team and trump lawyers seem to keep getting into more legal -- >> that's what i'm really watching is the documents case,

and what pans out. i think there's some deadlines even in place now in the next 24 hours. so this time tomorrow i wonder if we'll be talking about an indictment or if we'll be talking about major developments in the mar-a-lago documents case. we shall see. >> we shall see. >> final thoughts. >> a lot of the eyes of the world are on lower manhattan. the grand jury is convening today. if there is a decision today it would likely come at day's end late afternoon, and would probably filter out soon thereafter. we don't know it will be today. some suspect it could be next to. if it were to, it would be history, first time a former president ever indicted. >> that does it for us, for willie, joe and me this morning, yasmin vossoughian picks up the coverage right now.

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