banned. they -- free press band and burned books. the freedom to read which is protected by the first amendment is our essential right and duty of our democracy. even so it is continually under attack by both the public and private groups, who think they hold the truth. >> graceland is 100 years old, she lost her husband in the second world war, she experienced the entirety of the cold war. today, she thinks what is happening and florida is really bad. on that note, i wish you a good night. and a ramadan for those waking up in a few hours to eat, myself included, from all of

our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thank you for staying up late. see you again tomorrow. >> all week we have been an indictment watch, wondering if the case of -- will result in the first indictment of a former u.s. president in american history. today, we got two pieces of news that made me wonder if there is now complication for that historic birth. maybe the news about wondering which case against top health would go down against history -- the first case brought against the former president. a first piece of news was that manhattan district attorney alvin bragg, who is overseeing the stormy daniels case, he called called the scheduled grand jury, we don't know why he did that, and we will get some expert legal help breaking that down later this hour. for now, the bottom line is the no indictment in that case is happening today. that's number one. number two has to do with

special counsel jack smith's investigation into whether trump took classified documents when he left the white house, and whether trump obstructed justice when the government tried to get those documents back. we got such a huge advance in that case today, we have been wondering how close they've missed an indictment of their very own. and there is the shred of a chance that jack smith breaks history first. last night, the appeals court in d. c. gave trump's team until midnight to file a brief in the mar-a-lago case. after that, special counsel smith's team had until six a. m. to file their response. they literally had to pull in all-nighter. what is so important that the court of appeals in d. c. decided that they could not even wait one day, and instead needed jack smith's team to

stay up all night? this is trump attorney evan comer, not the only -- but he's also representing the primary point of contact with the national archive and the doj for nearly a year now. a ton of this case seems to be about trump's potential obstruction of justice. the trump's lawyer since april of 22, and that is all very relevant here. you might remember that back in june of last year, a few months prior to the fbi search of mar-a-lago, trump's lawyers gave a statement to the department of justice, saying that a diligent search had been conducted, and to the best of their knowledge, all material at the property had been returned. devin corcoran drafted that statement, and another trump lawyer signed it. two months later, the fbi found more than 100 classified documents in a storage area, and in trump's own office in his family's personal residence

at mar-a-lago. key parts of this investigation for how these documents got into trump's residence in the very first place, and whether trump moving them there might have been an attempt to obstruct justice. the washington post reported last year that the department of justice had gathered evidence, indicating that trump told people to move boxes to his residence after his legal team had received a subpoena for mar-a-lago's security camera footage. once the doj got ahold of that footage, it allegedly showed exactly that, people moving boxes to trump's personal residence shortly after his legal team learned of the subpoena. when i say trump's legal team, again, the point person on the legal team is evan corcoran. again, back to the key part of this investigation, what does the moving of those boxes in attempt to obstruct justice? with that in mind, one of the things that the special counsel 's reporting and particularly

interested in is a phone call between him and evan corcoran right around the time for that subpoena of the video footage was first issues, maybe to find out what devin corcoran was being told or not told about does boxes. all of this puts trump lure evan corcoran in a very unique position. yes, he's trump lawyer, but he also might be a witness or party to a crime. he could be willingly or unwittingly a pawn in president trump's alleged obstruction of justice. that is something known as the crime fraud exception, and that can break attorney giant privilege. last month, special counsel jack smith as to the d. c. district court judge for approval to do just that, to force corcoran to cooperate with the investigation. abc news reported that the special counsel for them presented evidence that trump, quote, deliberately miss had his own attorneys, and evidence that appears to show that trump

committed the crime. on friday, a federal judge agreed with the special counsel, and ordered evan corcoran to comply with the grand jury subpoena for the testimony, and also ordered him to hand over a number of records related to what the judge reportedly referred to as trump alleged criminal team. those documents would be handwritten notes, invoices, and transcriptions of personal audio recordings. trump's team, not wanting those documents in the hands of the special counsel for obvious reasons, the legal team representing trump appealing that ruling. that dispute is what led to the d. c. circuit to assign special counsel jack smith that all-nighter last night. now today, that same appeals court has ruled in jack smith's favor. they refused to grant the trump's team appeal, meaning that friday's ruling, the attorney client privilege, that can take effect. cnn and cvs are both reporting that he is sent to testify on

friday. the actual legal judgment remains under scaled, and they haven't independently confirmed friday is the date that it will happen, but the key witness to the mar-a-lago classified documents obstruction of justice case is now fair game for special counsel jack smith. this begs the question, are we on a watch now for indictments in the plural? joining us now, nbc's senior legal correspondent and kyle cheney, senior legal affairs writer for politico. as we try to understand exactly what is happening, it appears to be administer recommending wrapped in something that's understated, things are pretty clear. first, i love your perspective own unusual timing yesterday, ordering one side to respond by midnight, special counsel has to respond by six a. m., i've never seen that. how did you interpret that? >> the stakes are very high.

there's something in those materials that the judge, assuming that it would be those materials in private, before she actually ordered them to be turned over, they're not currently reporting the, but that's typically how it goes. something in those, she decided was so high stakes, so important had to be turned over expeditiously, and in the court of appeals said sided with her, obviously we haven't seen what they've done. it's sealed. we don't know what that is, but whatever it is, obviously they hear a lot of veteran as well, because they went through the trouble of trying to get the materials so that the grand jury can see them. the grand jury within review this and preparing to possibly indict. >> do you draw any conclusion about the timeframe on all of this, given the rapidity with which, the alacrity with which they are moving through this. what seems to be the and stages

of this investigation? >> it's fair to say that we don't go after the former presidents attorney until you are really at a critical juncture. it's certainly not the move that you would make is your first entry into the gate. you would usually do it once you developed enough facts and evidence to feel like this is really the thing that we need, and you would have to take that showing to the judge that this is really critical evidence. it is not to say that they are anywhere near close to an indictment. that might be nearly as far out as the da in manhattan for instance. it is fair to say that they are an advanced stage in the investigation. >> for a moment, prior to trump announcing the knees of running for president, the reporting that we had, and especially in the washington post, was that the doj was close to charging that division in the mar-a-lago case last fall, and obviously that did not come to pass.

special counsel jack smith is pointed to run this. it's now march, months later, but as laura points out, we are talking about the presidents lawyer being subpoenaed, going forward, providing that evidence, what is your estimation about what else we might expect in terms of witnesses that can be called, in terms of the work that remains on this case, which to the layman seems pretty exhaustive at this point. >> to put it in a broader perspective, it's happening in manhattan, you have the documents case, and then you have fulton county which is currently be invite investigated to turn the election in georgia, and all three of those could be imminent, it's not just the two that we talked about, but it's the third one as well in fulton county. indictments can come any day if the da from fulton says that it's imminent, that the charges are imminent there. it's very remarkable when you think about, and you're absolutely right, when you're going to appear with that on a fraud theory, you're pretty

much at the end game. judges don't like to do, that ever, in any circumstances, and so when you have the chief judge at the time, agreeing that they appeal the court, they agree with her, then it seemed like the evidence must be pretty compelling and overwhelming, and so now the question is, will corporate show up on friday? there's been some effort for the supreme court which we have not seen any signals yet. there's been some reporting the trump isn't interested in going to the supreme court. it may be that he shows up, gives them the goods that he has, and indictment could be fairly forthcoming after that. >> what is your assessment of that? while the judge ruled that yes but, he has to testify, and the evidence has to go, the prosecutors can look at the evidence they were talking, about and we will get to that in a second. the appeals process continues, right? kyle saying the trump reportedly doesn't want this to

go to the supreme court, given how they have handled previously similar things, what is your estimation about the fight ahead, and how much this could be litigated further? >> keeping the appeal open can be risky at first, in the event that later down the line, a court decides that these documents should actually have not have come into evidence, should not have gone before a jury. the whole thing gets thrown out which could be particularly problematic for them. even if his team are allowed to review these materials, they not might not be able to ultimately use them if they were to report with an indictment. >> and let's just talk about the materials. if we're talking about notes from personal audio recordings, and we don't know that is. >> again, the judge examining this material is referring to it as trump alleged criminal scheme, he's putting the words trump and criminal scheme together after review of these materials, which might include notes from personal audio recordings.

>> it's weird because usually when you see the exception in vogue, it's in a case where they are in some sort of cahoots with the climate client. in this case, what it appears to be is that she, the judge, has suggested that trump actually misled his own attorneys in some way, and again the contours of, that we're going to have to report out, but as you said in your setup here, we know that their department is so interesting, as he has what turns out to be a very -- that the justices start receiving those on. with that done at his clients suggestion, and if so, how did that all come together? >> those are the kinds of questions the you can try to focus on. a statement is the kind of centerpiece for the obstruction case, right? the notion that the trump legal team says that, do you know what guys? they've got everything. what we know about the statement is evan corcoran drafting it, but christina bobb, a different lawyer signs in. i wonder if you are interested for the sort of choreography of the signing of that statement,

because it suggests that there are inferences drawn about who knew what and terms of dylan galatea that statement. >> and that is why one of the questions that i have, is evan corcoran going to come forward willingly? if he's somebody that says that i want to tell you what i know, i have to clear my name and the people that worked with me, but then trump is going to block him. it's a secret of events that suggests that if trump intervened to stop him from going forward, stopping him from talking, i don't know because this is all happening in secret, and it's all under seal, we just get bits and pieces here in there. it's hard to always judge with the motivations are here, but one of the theories around why the appeals court moved in such urgency, is because perhaps he was ready to come say what he knew, and if he didn't step into adjudicate this, it might be too late. we saw very similar situation play out last fall when martin short and -- and mike pence were subpoenaed for the get january 6th grand jury. it seemed like a very much secret process that trump lost, in the very much day after he lost that event, they came in and testified we've seen this movie before in a certain way. maybe he is a lot to say. >> that is a fascinating theory, and i wonder what you make of it. perhaps he is a cooperative witness, and they have to get this material in the prosecutors hands stat because he wants to come and testify. >> we just don't know. there's some reporting out

there that he actually ordered him to produce these documents by ex date, and so with the appellate court, in order to make sure they got out ahead of that ruling, they wanted everything to be done expeditiously, so that they could have a whole airing of their side, a swarming to produce that, but we just simply don't know, i wish that we did. we are working on it. i just think that we don't yet know enough about what corcoran 's level of cooperation is here, if any. >> we do have a sense that he's pretty exposed, and we have reporting that he is still working as a lawyer for donald trump, which laura, again, i'm not a lawyer, but that seems pretty perilous, not only for evan corcoran but also for donald trump because evan corcoran is a potential witness in this case, and he would no longer be able to go with him. trump could also be accused of witness tampering, there's just so many levels to how legally perilous it is for all parties involved. >> i think that he's still involved for sure. >> there hasn't been anything about this yet, the legal machinations of this case. but i do think that we need to wait and see how some of this plays out, and again, it's a question of how they want to

use the material, right? the bar for getting the grand jury subpoena is lower than they threshold that he would have to make in court to actually prove that he's harder to be, that's a really different threshold. i'm just curious to see how, if at all, he uses the materials that he fought so hard to get. >> and i will say, we want to highlight, in addition to the statements that we talked about, it's also the phone call that trump made to corcoran allegedly in and around the same time that the doj is subpoenaing to get their hands on the video footage that was then revealed, and they were putting boxes around mar-a-lago. the content of that call are going to be of great interest to all of us, but especially to the department of justice as they try to figure out, if they do what they're going to do in this case. laura? come back, please. all the time.

>> i'm not going away, that's for sure. >> this is not going away. kyle cheney, thank you for your great reporting, and thank you to both of you for your time and expertise, and just walking us down this strange and winding road. we have a lot to get to this evening, including the role of the national enquirer in the hush money scheme that might end up making history. that tabloid, if you recall, in maybe you don't, also playing a role in another national scandal involving a major political figure and his affair, and hush money. we will have more on that, when we come back.

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make more of what's yours. ♪ i gotta good feeling about this, yeah ♪ ch♪ i'm with it ♪s. ♪ i gotta good feeling about this ♪ ♪ yeah, ♪ ♪ so let's get it ♪ ♪ i'm feeling good vibes ♪ >> it was the summer of 2004,

the presidential election just around the corner, and everybody was waiting for democratic candidate john kerry to choose a running mate. that was when the new york post got a big scoop and rushed to print this front page story. carries choice, he picks gephardt at the peak candidate. he did not pick him to be his running mate. the new york post got it wrong. the vice presidential version of newly to defeated truman. but maybe john kerry should've listened to that prediction that morning, because the man that he did pick to be his running mate that year was this guy, north carolina senator jon edwards. by 2018, john edwards was telling news outlets -- sorry, john kerry was telling news outlets, calling him a fake. he said he didn't measure up as vice presidential candidate, because seven years after carrie and edwards lost the 2004 presidential election, john edwards became americas first national political

candidate to be indicted for scheme to pay hush money to add mistrust to cover up an affair. >> with his daughter, kate by his side, john edwards took responsibility for doing wrong. but not for breaking the law. >> i did not break the law. i have never thought about breaking the law. >> almost 1 million dollars provided by two wealthy donors, and according to the government, the money was used to hide his mattress, brio hunter, and later their child, while he ran for president. the six count indictment alleges the payments constituted unlawful campaign contributions, and accuses edwards of soliciting and covering them up, saying that he knew that if it became public, it would undermine his image as a family man, and it would destroy his candidacy. >> nobody ever been charged, either civilly or criminally, the claims that have been brought against senator edwards today. >> no one has ever been charged, either civilly or criminally with the claims that have been brought against senator edwards today. the national political candidates are concerned, that claim is still true, at least for now. the world's waiting to see if manhattan district attorney

alvin bragg will bring charges against donald trump for his own alleged scheme to pay hush money for a former mistress in order to cover up an alleged affair. the potential case against trump is remarkably similar to the one brought against john edwards a decade ago. both cases involved paying a woman to keep secret and alleged affair during a presidential campaign, in both cases hinged on the idea that the hush money, paid to cover up that a fair, and that moneyd> constituted an illegal campaign donation. those similarities are nearly certain to be in the back of the manhattan da's mind right now. even though john edwards political career was effectively ended by the discovery of mrs. affair and love child, the legal case against edwards proved significantly less damning. in 2012, day acquitted edwards of one campaign finance charge at the center of the government's case against him. the jury deadlocked on five other charges, but because edwards was found not guilty on that campaign finance charge, the rest of the case started to

look a lot shakier, and the prosecution chose not to retry edwards on those other charges. now, legal experts are warning of similar pitfalls in the financial case against donald trump. it's not yet clear, for example, whether prosecutors will be able to prove that the alleged hush money payment made to stormy daniels, whether that constituted a campaign finance violation. so that is how prosecutors can avoid repeating history, as they weighed whether to bring in historic charges against former president. i will ask the former manhattan prosecutor that very question, and a whole lot more, coming up next.

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on the new stance for the better part of the year in 2010 that coverage earned the tabloid a pulitzer prize nomination the story was clearly gold for the national enquirer in 2016 the paper had the chance to do it all over again and they had a shot to break the news that a second major candidate for presidential the house money payment to cover up to extramarital trips this time though the inquiry decided not to break the story but cover it up because in 2016 the candidate with donald trump and this time the wall street journal broke the story that the chair of the company that publishes the enquirer helped capture and kill stories about trump and his affairs and was involved in hush money payments to trump's mistresses high growth and give prosecutors the information we have new that

those jurors are preparing to reconvene tomorrow reports a jurist might hear from one more witness before they vote joining us now is i'm so sorry former chief district attorney for former manhattan da thank you for being here tonight sorto got i will get it right on this one cameron you have a wealth of experience in legal situation if not this particular case and i wonder first and foremost the kind of back and forth we have seen this weekend causing the gregory bringing back the suggestion of one more witness and one more witness might be

michael cohen might be someone else at the start of the week bob costello one of the former legal alliances that was involved in this back in the day really viewed michael cohen's character he is a star witness here potentially for the manhattan da do you think we could be seeing right now is alvin bragg trying to clean up the mess that bob costello made basically a minute shot in the cranbury which is unusual grandeur proceedings are usually bare bones that are much smaller amount of time of the trial there is no opening statement no estimation no cross-examination just putting on air barebones case to get to the hurdle of an indictment which is a much lower standard than a trial when you have to prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt but here you are having a bit of a mini trial going on because the grand jury heard from a defense witness mr. costello which you

know the defense had a right to request that and as a grand jury heard it and so it is common in a situation like this where you would want to put on rebuttal witnesses or consider putting on rebuttal witnesses if there was some doubt or some information given that the prosecution wants to reboot and also it feels like the public is so engaged at every chapter of this even though as you point out this is not the trial this is the grand jury proceeding i wonder if optics matter as well because bob was out there speaking at a press availability about michael cohen holding up copies of a book that you know locks about him and his role as a fixer does that matter at all to the manhattan da well michael cohen was known as the man hunt and create no they know that he has the conviction for lying to congress and that he has other criminal convictions and that he is flip-flopped, right?

there is a time where you said donald trump had nothing to do with it now he is saying he does. so you have to cooperate absolutely everything michael cohen says, but michael cohen also provides a lot of color for who donald trump is donald trump picked michael cohen donald trump used michael cohen and michael cohen says he wrote the book on how to do these criminal schemes that lawyers and others are doing with donald trump so that is who donald trump picked at somebody like that and as a prosecutor you have to live with whoever it is that the defendant brings in as to the witness and the person in the room is going to have the evidence but i think alvin bragg had all of that cooperation lined up knowing you would have to cooperate him and he knew who michael cohen was exactly exactly let's talk a little bit about the strength of this case because we did have an amount of we treated everyone with the john edwards on this and how do you see this

case as meaningfully different -- is it legally sound, right, so in this case has both of those issues which the john edwards case, i think is it necessarily have those issues right? the john edwards case, you know, was much more about the facts than whether that was for a campaign of violation and whether or not an inappropriate campaign violation, here it has a similar legal issue, but it also has an additional legal issue because this is a prosecution, and there is questions about whether federal campaign counts as the crime that -- falsifying a business record from a misdemeanor to a felony. >> so, everyone, says because it is a two tier process if you,

will that is a felony, people who suppose they -- that the campaign finance piece is what elevates it to a felony, there are other potential crimes that could be sided, that would elevated to a felony. are there not be on the campaign finance? >> yes, they're absolutely, are i use an analogy of a burglary, so a burglary is a chess pass, and that is a trespass, that is not a misdemeanor. what turns a trespass into a burglary, is if one you go and have the intent to commit a crime while you are in there, you don't necessarily have to prove the, crime they don't necessarily have to even, you don't need to know what crime they were going to commit, you just know it wasn't to take a nap on your couch. so, similar here, i think, i think here you are going to look at it different facts like if this was a proper, why didn't they recorded as a

paying -- it's not illegal to do a hush money payment, why did they have to record it as a legal retainer. donald trump is out there saying, he did not want melania to, know but i would argue i don't think she is checking the records of the trump organization. so, why did they structure the payments, there were 11 different payments, why did they structure them overtime if they weren't trying to hide it? what was going on two weeks later? he was elected. it was the election. so i think you can make a very strong argument that this was for the purpose of committing a crime. it could be one of several crimes. >> he wasn't just taking a nap on the couch. last question for you, in terms of why the feds did not pursue it when it was in their hand, you, know we -- bill barr the attorney general at the, time but merrick garland is now the a.g.. do you have it thought about why this administration, why this department of justice did not -- you know fully pursue the hush money case? >> well at the time that

michael cohen pled guilty in 20, 18 they talk about individual one, the justice department then that was bill barr justice department, they found that individual one who is donald trump actually participated in this. he was president at the time, nobody is going to bring a case against a sitting president, that just wasn't going to happen. why merrick garland didn't pick it up afterward, i would argue that he had 1000 people he had to prosecute, because january six and a lot of other issues involving donald trump. this just sort of felt by the wayside, but that is just a guess, that is what i think. they have been so busy with the mar-a-lago documents, case january six insurrection, and all of those prosecutions. >> yeah. it is an understatement to say the doj has been busy. karen, thank you for your expertise and wisdom. great to have you on the show. >> thank you for having me. >> we have much more ahead tonight, there is yet another

trial looming, a different one, not the one we have been talking about, another trial looming for former president trump. this one over serious allegations dating back to the 19 90s. plus, a new york times report takes us inside trump world, the former president braces for indictment, we will get the scoop on what reporters are describing as trump magical thinking. that is next. treatment for asthma driven by eosinophils. it helps prevent asthma attacks, improve breathing, and lower use of oral steroids. fasenra is not a rescue medication or for other eosinophilic conditions. fasenra may cause allergic reactions. get help right away if you have swelling of your face, mouth and tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop your asthma treatments unless your doctor tells you to. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection or your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. ask your doctor about fasenra. and we're done. hm, what about these? looks right.

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will see again tomorrow, now it is time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening lawrence. >> good evening, we are here at the last, weird starting off with andrew weissmann and neil -- joining us later is congressman dan goldman, also a lawyer and former federal prosecutor. former federal prosecutor is now a requirement to be a guest at this hour. >> we're just surrounded by lawyers all the time because it's indictment season, it appears. not just indictment watch. it's a potential season of indictments ahead of us. >> and since monday, since monday i have been dying to ask dan goldman about something that i heard on monday. you might remember this. it's when robert costello