owners trying to get customers. members of groups like the lgbtq communities creating communities on tiktok. they're the only defenders on the hill coming to tiktok's defense. looking at the communities that use it. one piece of breaking news we posted on axios.com, a scoop from the white house. president biden is telling tiktok, you want to be able to save this and keep it from being banned? sell it. if the chinese parent company byte dance sells it to a domestic, u.s., european, it'd solve the problems. don't think that'll happen. >> dance reluctant to do that. covering a lot of ground in a short time, nick johnston. thank you. we appreciate you being here with us. you know what, thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" with us on this thursday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. acknowledge that donald trump lost the georgia election? >> i am -- >> that's an easy one. do you acknowledge that, drew?

>> no, no. i'm focused -- let me tell you what i'm focused on. i'm focused on being a criminal defense attorney. >> do you -- >> ari. >> do you -- >> -- political people. >> why would we even talk about that? >> i don't know. we want to watch you get fired on tv. i don't know. >> that was ari melber. >> he would be. >> donald trump's lawyer, one of many who have done this in the georgia election interference case. >> yes. >> one of the many legal issues for the former president. just ahead, we'll go through the latest developments in the manhattan hush money investigation after the grand jury got an unexpected day off yesterday. what does that mean? plus, expert legal analysis on a significant and rare ruling connected to the former president's handling of classified materials. also ahead, a preview of what we can expect on capitol hill today when tiktok's ceo testifies, hoping to ease

privacy concerns that have led to many lawmakers calling for the app to be banned in the u.s. >> listen, mika, i'll tell you what, willie and i, this morning, we're a little shaken. >> why? willie, are you okay? >> we have our routine. i wake up, you know, at 2:15 every morning. >> or 5:52 a.m. >> i walk outside. i got my boots on, my snow boots on. i walk next door to willie's house. we go down in the basement, right? crack open some red bull, some orange juice, and we start going through this process. we do. i call my contacts across the world. willie calls his. we're sitting there and drinking coffee and everything else. take a break once in a while to watch some high-line matches we bet on. >> okay. >> we have this super computer. by the way, we use the diagrams. by the time we go on air, it tells us what the top stories

are. >> yeah. >> you know this is a process. >> why are we doing this? >> opening up the curtain to let people see how we actually do this. this is our process. do the venn diagrams, pop a couple vitamin cs, right? then willie gets an iv some mornings. >> yeah, all that stuff. >> we do all this. then we get the venn diagrams and line it all up on the wall. we have a foam board. i'll be damned if this morning, this is how we get our stories. this is the top story that kept coming up this morning for willie and me. >> no. >> we're a little shaken by it all. it's the lindsay lohan crypto charges. >> oh, my gosh, yeah. >> yeah, charging lindsay lohan and jake paul with crypto violations. willie, i guess this is what with kids want to hear about today. >> no, they don't.

>> it's a lot like "homeland" when claire danes would be in her apartment. you have the circles and the threads going from one thing to the other. >> yeah. >> we're pulling back the curtain. it is not always pretty. it's how the sausage is made, but it works for us. worked almost 16 years of doing this show. here we are. the super computer kicked out lindsay lohan, jake paul, a group of celebrities in a little trouble now for their support and backing of cryptocurrency, retweeting information, getting paid to support it. >> yup. >> they're not alone, by the way. there are a lot of famous people who lent their names to failed cryptocurrencies and now, perhaps, facing legal trouble. >> which, number two, number two, and we thought it'd be the trump stuff, number two is gisele also losing some money in crypto. identifying herself as a, quote, witch of love, right? >> okay. >> that was number two. >> i'm not -- >> for mika's sake, we're going

to pass those two right now. >> we'll get to them later. >> later. also talking about beethoven's hair and his dna. >> interesting. the fact we're getting -- >> that was number four, by the way. beethoven was number four. along with joe, willie and me, and willie just really triggered me by saying almost 16 years. almost 16 years of "morning joe." think about that. we have the host of "way too early." >> what a ride. >> white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. >> going to be one of those mornings, guys. >> i'm just thinking, willie. >> michael. >> maybe we should have "panama" as the theme song. middle part where david lee ross starts talking, right? yeah, i mean, this is -- >> you're killing me. >> this is 16 years. >> i'm trying to get jen psaki to come on board, and she is not going to. >> jen just left. >> can we talk about jen psaki for a second? >> in general, just not going to

be inters eed in being on the show. >> i want to know what coffee joe had this morning. i want some over here. >> the fact is no coffee. >> i had the jen psaki brew. let's talk about jen psaki for a second, y'all. come on, y'all. let's talk about jen psaki. >> i love jen psaki. >> she has a debut show. >> it was so good. >> thank you. >> i find out yesterday, find out yesterday, willie, you're not going to believe this, more people watched jen psaki's show this weekend than saw the beatles play on "ed sullivan." >> wow. >> huge numbers. >> it was good. >> massive. >> wow. >> jen, congratulations. >> that was an exaggeration, but thank you. we feel good about the first show. on to the second on sunday. >> that's exciting. >> love it. congratulations. we're really proud of you. >> thank you. >> sorry for everything that just happened. willie, let's get to the news. the focus this morning is again on the manhattan district attorney's office, awaiting a possible decision in a criminal case involving former president donald trump.

>> you think they'll do anything? >> you know, i'm not -- >> because, michael steel, what i found out, and mika wanted me to bring this up in the middle of the script, we find out that donald trump the grifter, he's always agrift. he teases us on sunday. raises $1.5 million, "oh, they're about to arrest me." send me money. send me money. he wants to be in cuffs because he wants to raise more money. what do you and i always tell people, for six years, it's all about the money. >> thank you. thank you. the thing that kills me about all of this, joe, is that people just absolutely freak the hell out when donald trump sent out this tweet, talking about he is going to get arrested on tuesday. i'm sitting there going, did the d.a. make a public announcement, or is this just coming from trump? guess what? it's just coming from trump. here we are on thursday, and it

hasn't happened. but he's raised the money. i think -- i mean, the lesson, joe, as you and i have been saying for a long time now, it's a sobering one that people don't want to learn, is that he is not the authority of these things. he is not the authority of any of these externalities that are going on around him, whether it is legal, whether it is political. he is not the authority. yet, he inserts himself to change the direction of the narrative. his people probably got a heads-up. his lawyers got a heads-up, that the d.a. was making certain moves or thinking about making moves. he wanted to get ahead of the narrative, as he has from the mueller investigation on down, to set the stage on what he wants people to think, what he wants them to believe. he's got his base fired up. they're willing to create a human ring around mar-a-lago, right? for what?

for what? the d.a. didn't say jack, and, yet, everybody is beating their breasts, specials on television about something that hasn't happened. >> yeah. >> wow. >> also, grifts build the wall, right? they took money from supporters there. also, i need your help to pay my legal bills. it's all a grift. now, two sources familiar with the matter say d.a. alvin bragg has called a grand jury to reconvene today in manhattan after an unexpected day off yesterday. the reason for that delay was unclear since the group usually does meet on wednesdays. there could have been a scheduling conflict. sources also tell "the new york times" the grand jury may hear from at least one more witness in the case, which could push a vote on a possible indictment of trump back until next week if that's coming. the former president is accused of paying $130,000 to porn star stormy daniels days before the 2016 election to keep her quiet

about an alleged affair the two had a decade earlier. trump has denied that affair. of course, denied any wrongdoing in the matter. let's bring in former general council of the fbi, andrew weissmann, and justice and intelligence correspondent, ken dilanian. good morning to you both. you long said you believe an indictment is coming in the case. what do you make of the brief delay the last 24 hours or so? >> well, i don't think anyone should overreact to it. it could be a new witness in scheduling. people speculated it could be that the grand jury wants to hear from stormy daniels herself, maybe even allen weisselberg, former cfo chief financial officer who pled guilty. it could be something about scheduling or a security issue. nypd or the secret service raised some issue about the timing of an indictment.

it could be all of those things. we may know more today if we learn that there is another witness going in. if there is no other witness, i do expect that we'll have prosecutors going in to present the proposed charges to the grand jury. >> ken, one thing we can rule out is that extra witness potentially being michael cohen. lanny davis, his attorney, put out this morning, saying ruling out the talk that it'd be cohen. there was some speculation that he might be coming back. if there is another witness, it's not going to be him. walk us through as to where things stand right now in terms of what the process would be if the jury, grand jury, were to hear another witness or if they don't. how much longer could this last? >> jonathan -- >> if they hear. >> sorry, for ken. >> go ahead, ken. >> i'd like to hear andrew's answer on this, but it is a secret process. we don't know exactly where they are in their deliberations. we don't know whether any grand jurors are balking, for example, at whether everybody is on the same page.

it's been appearing that this train is going down the tracks and they're wrapping up this investigation, moving toward an indictment. it is possible there is a fly in the ointment. there is possibility there isn't. we anticipated seeing cohen come back to rebut the claims of his former lawyer, robert costello, who tried to raise questions about his credibility. they feel they don't need that. andrew can speak to this, but it is possible that alvin bragg or his prosecutors want to sum up the case, one final sort of summation before the grand jury votes on a possible indictment. we just don't know. >> jen psaki, so trump did this as a giant grift. did it on sunday, knowing he wasn't going to be indicted on tuesday. he's been playing the press. he's been playing his political opponents. >> yeah. >> time and time again for six, seven years, always seemingly a step ahead, again, to raise money, to get attention, to get

headlines. what's your advice to democrats? how do democrats handle this in the coming days and weeks, whether he is indicted or not? >> stay out of it, joe. i mean, i think what the trump team -- you mentioned the fundraising, huge part of it. you also just mentioned the public attention. what is important for a lot of people to also call out here is that the trump team wants all of the public eyes, the media, to focus on the manhattan d.a. case and alvin bragg. he sent out his bat signal to all of his people, and they have followed suit from marjorie taylor greene to kevin mccarthy to elise stefanik and even tim scott and people who may be running for president. they are targeting the manhattan d.a. what is inconvenient for trump is that now there are developments, thanks to the reporting of ken dilanian and others, in other cases, including this news report over the last 24 hours that he lied to his attorneys as it related to his handling of classified documents. largely for democrats, let this

happen. don't redirect your strategy, your focus, your public arguments on to explaining the trump cases, would be my advice. also, if you have to talk about it, make clear that there is a range of cases. try to get the spotlight off of just the manhattan d.a. case. that's what the trump team wants. >> well, there is a range of cases. >> a range, a healthy range. a range as big as the yellowstone ranch. georgia. >> that's a big one. >> huge one. >> that's the one you kind of go, what's going on there? >> mar-a-lago. >> obvious evidence. let's talk about that. there was a development in another legal case involving former president trump in that range. nbc news can now confirm that a u.s. district judge ruled the department of justice did present efficient evidence to establish trump committed a crime through his attorneys

related to the documents found at mar-a-lago. there was a sealed filing last friday. it is important to note, judge howell was not ruling on whether or not trump was guilty of a crime, but was making a decision on whether his attorney could be compelled to testify. the judge ruled in favor of applying the so-called crime fraud exception. meaning attorney corcoran cannot claim attorney-client privilege to avoid testifying. this is pretty big. >> it is. >> the judge ruled in favor of ordering corcoran to testify before the grand jury, convened by special counsel jack smith, who is currently investigating the former president's handling of the classified documents at his office. at the same time, "the washington post" reports a federal appeals court ruled yesterday to uphold judge howell's ruling, ordering corcoran to turn over notes, transcripts, and other evidence to prosecutors, and to return to

the grand jury to answer prosecutors' questions more fully. cnn and cbs news report that corcoran is scheduled to testify before the grand jury tomorrow. >> andrew weissmann. >> wow. >> you know, mika will tell you, i'm a simple country lawyer. >> oh, lord. >> i'm not a big city lawyer like you. >> this is more pressing. >> even a simple country lawyer like me can look at this and know, this is really bad news. >> ouch. >> not only for donald trump's attorney but for the client himself. can you just talk about -- seriously, can you just talk about how unusual it is for a judge to allow prosecutors to pierce attorney-client privilege. >> what are they looking for? >> and exactly what that means. >> yeah. >> sure. well, i think you're both right, that this could be a critical and huge development in the mar-a-lago case. this could be opening the door to mr. corcoran giving direct

evidence with respect to the former president obstructing that investigation. why is that? mr. corcoran drafted the certification in june that would given to the department of justice. it said all documents related to the subpoena had been produced. everyone knows that was, in fact, not true. there was a search, and there were documents responsive to the subpoena all over mar-a-lago, including in the former president's office. >> let me ask you, andrew, is this to stop the attorneys from pointing at trump and trump pointing at the attorneys? the attorneys say, "we only did it because trump lied to us and told us he'd given us all the documents," and to stop trump from saying, "well, the attorneys lied"? this stops it, doesn't it? it calls it out, and we find out who was lying. >> exactly. the reporting is that

mr. corcoran is going to say, "it wasn't me. i wrote this, but i was told what to put in there by my client," meaning donald trump. you're absolutely right. this is a way of getting that direct evidence. how did that certification come about? yes, it is very unusual for the prosecutors to seek this kind of order from the court. it is not something that has never happened. it happened during the special counsel mueller investigation with the exact same judge, but it is unusual. in order to make this ruling, the judge has to find that it is likely that donald trump committed a crime. it's not necessary that the lawyer did, but at least the client did. the standard is likely. that's exactly what she wrote in the manafort case that i handled. >> right. >> so this is a huge deal. in terms of the case, this really could be the key evidence of obstruction. it also differentiates this case

from what we know about the pence case and the biden case. there, there's absolutely no circumstance where we're thinking there is obstruction and false statements made. this could be a critical difference as to why the department treats donald trump differently than the other two cases. >> right. and it's key for everybody listening, and what andrew just said is, court is not going to do this unless it is, quote, likely that donald trump or his attorney or both committed a crime. ken, i want to underline one other point that andrew just told us. people are looking, republicans, saying, "oh, this is the same thing that pence did. this is the same thing that biden did." this is the part of the trump case -- and we've been saying for a long time, other people have been saying for a long time -- is the key. it's not the documents themselves. it's the obstruction in returning those documents and swearing that you have returned

those documents when, in fact, you haven't. talk about how this goes to the very heart of that issue that many people say is what differentiates this case from the mike pence case or the joe biden case. >> 100%. joe, that is the significance of this development. look, even if you leave this aside, the trump situation with more than 100 classified documents found in an fbi search, some of them tssei, is much different from the bide b biden and pence situations. these were in his office. these weren't inadvertently packed and stored and he didn't know about it, at least according to the circumstantial evidence. take it a step further. i mean, when i talk to current and former doj officials about whether this case will be charged, there's always a reluctance. the idea that you're going to charge a former president with simple mishandling of classified documents he once had access to

and it was sent to his house, that's a tough case. it's not impossible but it is tough for the attorney general to bring, for merrick garland to sign off on. when you have evidence of obstruction of justice, of lying, of failing to comply with a grand jury subpoena, that's an easy decision to make. they can't turn away from that. now, a federal judge is saying there is substantial evidence to believe that's exactly what happened. it's always been a question. who lied to the government? was it the lawyers, or was it trump? i guess the third possibility is nobody knew those documents were there. well, the evidence argues against nobody knew they were there. now, it's looking increaingly like the evidence suggests that it was donald trump who caused that false aft to be submitted to the justice department. >> those attorneys drafted and signed a document that said, "all clear, nothing left here." the fbi went in later and found more than 100 more classified documents. andrew weissmann, there has been a lot of talk, including some people who have come on our show

and said, "boy, they shouldn't have gone first with the manhattan case. they shouldn't have gone first with the stormy case. feels like old news. georgia is more important. the documents, january 6th, these are more important." obviously, these four cases are being conducted, these investigations, by different people with different sets of facts, without concern to the others. what's your sense of the way these are rolling out and how they may impact each other as they do come down? >> well, i think, willie, your point that these are different prosecutors is key. yes, you know, if this was one prosecutor, you might ask the question, why this one first? i don't think the manhattan case is negligible, but it certainly ishmp not as serious as the eve that happened january 6th. you know, the potential overthrow of democratic presidential election or the retention of highly classified documents and obstruction of the federal investigation. but these are three separate

prosecutors. this is not, like, a tv show with one producer, where you figure out, what should we lead with? what should go second? what should go third? i basically say to people, a little like what jen psaki said, which is, you know, have patience here. let the process play x1=xáy we could find ourselves in a matter of weeks or months where all of this is something that is indicted. the fact that this case in manhattan goes first becomes sort of a footnote to history. we really could have a very different set of facts very soon. >> yeah. andrew weissmann and ken dilanian, thank you for being on as we watch all of this. a judge in delaware says he'll decide soon if dominion's defamation lawsuit against fox news will go to a jury last month. both sides spent the last two days in court, arguing the judge should rule in the case before that happens. dominion says that there is no

defense for the false claims of election fraud fox news aired following the 2020 election. lawyers for the voting system company have presented internal communications and depositions that show fox executives and hosts knew the claims were false but aired them anyway. however, fox believes that it is completely covered by the first amendment and has asked the judge to dismiss the case. its lawyers argue that the network and its hosts were reporting on news-worthy allegations from newsworthy people, and that executives were not directly involved in airing any defamatory statements. the judge told the lawyers yesterday they would have to agree on live or video testimony from witnesses for their jury presentations. adding that he would prefer live witnesses. "the washington post" reports that rupert murdoch might be compelled to take the stand. earlier this week, fox's lawyer

submitted hardship claims, requesting that murdoch, laughlin and former house speaker paul ryan, a board member at fox, not be compelled to testify at trial. the judge signalled that rupert murdoch's role at fox may warrant his testimony, but he cautioned he's not yet made a ruling. we'll be following that. ahead on "morning joe," new polling shows donald trump making significant gains over ron desantis in a potential 2024 gop white house race. we'll dig into the new numbers. plus, we'll look at how desantis is trying to clean up recent comments he made about the war in ukraine. also ahead, a preview of today's tiktok hearing on capitol hill. the company's ceo will appear before lawmakers and try to calm national security concerns. and is working from home really working? steve rattner joins us ahead

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florida governor ron desantis is changing his stance on ukraine. he referred to russia's invasion as a, quote, territorial dispute and said the u.s. shouldn't get more involved. now in an interview with piers morgan, ron desantis is calling vladimir putin a war criminal. >> he has grand ambitions. he is hostile to the united states. i think the thing we've seen is he doesn't have the conventional capability to realize his ambitions. so he is basically a gas station with a bunch of nuclear weapons. so, for us, one of the things we could be doing better is utilizing our own energy resources in the united states. we could be permitting natural gas pipelines, doing a lot in alaska. that's where he gets all his power. obviously, he's influenced europe by having so much energy. >> there is a move now to hold him accountable for war crimes, bombing maternity hospitals and genocidal activity in parts of ukraine, wiping out whole cities, mariupol and others. would you support that?

>> i think he is a war criminal. this icc, we have not done that in the united states because we're concerned about our soldiers, our people being brought under it, but i do think he should be held accountable. >> so michael steel, there you have it. governor desantis calling vladimir putin a war criminal. certainly a change from when he talks about the war. i'm curious about your assessment in the last couple days, the way he has performed and particularly the way he's talked about donald trump. donald trump put out a long, pointed post about desantis, saying why his record has governor isn't actually as good as he may think it is. donald trump very concerned about ron desantis. ron desantis, so far now, his approach seems to be laughing him off, mocking the charges in manhattan about paying off a porn star, taking him on a little bit more at least than he has, while still trailing trump by double digits in polls. >> well, therein lies the problem he has. the trump base is a solid base.

how does he tactfully tap into the base and hold conventional republicans, if they still exist inside the gop, together? let's take these in quick succession. so you have the reboot on putin and crimea. i mean, ukraine. that's because he did not expect the blowback he got from senior members of the party, especially in the senate. they started raking him over the coals for something that was absolutely an asinine position to take, that this was some territorial dispute between russia and ukraine. he was getting a big clapback, and he has to close that up, tighten it up and fix it. that's what the piers morgan interview was about, was trying to fix that. then you look at the relationship between him and trump. yeah, he went out and did a little pity pat.

at the end of the day, when you go back and listen to it, he never called the man's name out. he never said directly to trump, trump. you know, he never put it in his lap. at some point, you know, you're going to have to stop doing the cute dances, trying to get the giggle out of the press, and take the man on. because you're hemorrhaging points in the polls. you're not closing any ground. you're losing ground. trump hasn't done anything. trump, yeah, sent stuff out on truth social, said things offhand here, but he hasn't hit this guy yet. if you can't take advantage of this moment, when it gets ugly and tight and hot, when trump decides to actually leave mar-a-lago and get seriously on the road and go around the country, into your backyard in florida, then it becomes a different problem if you haven't begun to figure out how to close that gap. i just don't see it happening, at least in the short term.

>> yeah. >> if not the long term. >> yeah. jonathan lemire, it is one thing if you're sitting back while you're tied with donald trump in the polls. again, these polls are early. they may mean absolutely nothing in terms of who wins ultimately, but it does matter. the fundraisers, to people who want to give you money, people who want to get behind your campaign. looks like donald trump is 20, 30, 40 points ahead of desantis. suddenly, things cool off very quickly from when they wereago. if you want to be weak toward vladimir putin, you want to be neville chamberlain of 2023 because you think that's what the party likes, you want to stay as close to donald trump as you can, that's one thing. but if you turn around and you're 20, 25 points behind, yeah, it may start to make a difference. you may want to differentiate yourself on something like russia and say, hey, donald trump is a weak, old man. he's the guy that said vladimir putin was savvy for invading

ukraine. he's guy that called vladimir putin a strategic genius. ron desantis is now calling putin a war criminal. he's saying that putin needs to be prosecuted, held accountable for those war crimes. he said something about russia that i would not say, the whole gas station thing. anyway, he is saying those things. he is talking tough on russia. maybe is he trying to get distance between donald trump and himself? >> it's possible. he obviously received blowback from republicans, particularly in the senate, about his depiction of the russian invasion of ukraine as a mere territorial dispute. but, to your point, if we go back to december, the poll, that is a 27-point swing. 27-point swing from desantis to trump. now trump up 14 when he had been down 13.

it's not like trump has been doing a heck of a lot, other than potentially getting indicted. the cpac speech was his one signature moment. it seemed like, oh, yeah, the base started to revive itself again. we know, we talked about it nearly every day, joe, about how donald trump is a deeply, deeply flawed general election candidate. these indictments are going to hurt him there. we're seeing in this snapshot, and, again, it's early, trump is the clear favorite for the nomination. jen psaki, i want to get your take on this. if you were advising governor ron desantis and, i'm sorry, pity if you are, but if you were -- >> i'm not. i can confirm i am not. >> let's have a full disclosure. jen psaki is not consulting with governor ron desantis. if you look at the polls, look, you're still the best alternative, right? >> yeah. >> you're desantis, you're still way ahead of the pence, pompeo, haley group. you know, the anti-trump forces seemingly coalesced to you. you're getting the media

attention, but you are now trailing. how do you reverse that trend? >> well, i think, jonathan, first of all, they're trying to find their lane here. in addition to kind of switching his language on russia and ukraine. i will note, by the way, he also said in the same interview that his larger point is he doesn't think russia can take over ukraine or threaten nato, even if the u.s. doesn't escalate. he left himself a little space there, also, not to support additional funding. who knows what else he meant by that? that wasn't totally full throttle. but the other thing he did yesterday was he doubled down on this culture wars argument. he wants to be the culture war hero. now, i don't know that that's going to win him republican primary voters, but that's another place where he seems to be experimenting. my advice, which he is not seeking or looking for, but i'll give it to him right here, is that you have to find your lane. are you going to be the person who is smarter and more steady

than donald trump? you better have a slightly better answer on russia, first of all, because that wasn't super sophisticated in a lot of ways. are you going to be the guy who is the culture war hero? doesn't help you in the general election, but maybe it helps in the primary. right now, he is flailing in a lot of directions. my advice would be to find the one lane, the one place, and continue to drive that home. >> joe, it's been interesting. we've been talking. you've been looking a lot about the murdoch empire boosting ron desantis against donald trump. there is a four-page spread this morning summarizing piers morgan's interview in "the new york including this headline, "ron's heart is with the people of ukraine." if you turn the page, it's a two-page spread about how he's gotten fit and slim. ron desantis apparently lost a bunch of weight as he prepares to run for president. he is looking fit for duty, says "the new york post." >> sounds like 2000, jogging on the beach, great. >> there you go.

>> it's so interesting. i'm sure he got so much blowback with his first answer on ukraine. the fact that he was lifting kremlin talking points by calling it a territorial dispute. i'm sure he heard from -- i'm not saying he heard from the murdochs. would not be surprised if he didn't hear from people close to the murdochs, as well as a lot of huge fundraisers saying, "hey, dude, listen, we're not getting on the trump train again. if you think we're supporting a guy that's going to try to take us out of nato, a guy that is going to be complimenting vladimir putin, a guy that is going to be repeating kremlin talking points, no, no, no. we're not on that train." it sounds like somebody got to him and said that because calling vladimir putin a war criminal, saying that he should be held accountable, mika, that is him finessing this. i agree with jen, he's got to find a lane. it's not enough to not talk about trump. >> he's looking for it.

>> i will say, the piers morgan interview, that was the best as far as just his demeanor. he's not scowling at press conferences. you know, ron desantis also, jen psaki, not asking me for advice. >> turns out. >> he's already checked the box, though, on "i am angry, and i yell at women reporters about woke issues. i attack teachers." he's got that box checked, right? >> yeah. >> check the box, now move on. show, like you said, i'm the steady, competent, guy that knows how to get things done, and i win. he's shown the anger. they're on his side. now, he can grow the base. he is never going to out-trump trump. >> right. >> he's checked the box. stop the stupid press conferences and screaming at reporters. >> we'll see. >> i'm just saying, the smart move would be, though, jen, like

you said, now show republican voters, i'm steady. i'm not going to make you cringe every time i get in front of a microphone. you're not going to have to worry about what i'm going to say. i'll actually get things done. look at all the things i'm getting done in the state of florida. donald trump passed absolutely nothing other than a huge tax cut for billionaires in d.c. you know what? most importantly, i know how to win. don't you think that's the differentiation between trump he needs to make? >> well, look, i also think if you're ron desantis' team, you're looking at mike pence. you're seeing mike pence dropping in favorability and also going up in unfavorability. what's that connected to? is it connected to the fact that he finally sort of spoke out against trump? is it connected to the fact that he also hasn't criticized trump? yes, if this were a sane republican primary, my advice and your advice would be, i think, exactly it, which is find your lane to be the steady point that has conservative policies but not the insanity dose of

trump. but they're also looking at the other candidates and how they're impacted by their strategic approaches. what's good for trump, hard for others, is there isn't a good playbook for any other republican candidate for exactly how to take him on and dent his support. >> find a way to be his alternative. pence still lumped with trump, even though he made the comments behind closed doors about trump. he's still lumped with him. we have reporting about testifying. he could be lumped with potential indictments and testifying in those cases. he could be. he could start to make himself, ron desantis, the alternative. coming up, the federal reserve raised interest rates by another quarter point yesterday, despite concerns over signs of stress in the banking system. >> little surprised by that. >> yeah. steve rattner joins us next with charts on what drove the fed's decision. >> wow, look at that. >> wow, new high tech charts

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15 minutes before the top of the hour. live look at the white house. the federal reserve once again raised interest rates by a quarter point as it continues trying to tame inflation. the decision comes as the fed is under scrutiny for failing to properly oversee several banks that have failed in recent weeks. nbc news correspondent tom costello has the details. >> reporter: with its reputation on the line, the nation's central bank chose the path most anticipated. hiking interest rates for the ninth time in a year, making it clear that despite low unemployment, inflation running at 6% is still too high. >> the process of getting inflation back down to the 2 % has a long way to go and is

likely to be bumpy. >> reporter: the increase, a quarter point. the fed was reluctant to raise rates more after three bank failures in recent weeks. higher interest rates over the past year were a contributing factor to silicon valley bank's collapse after it took a big loss on bond sales. for the first time, the fed chair publicly addressed the banking crisis, insisting the cases are isolated. >> our banking system is sound and resilient with strong capital and liquidity. >> reporter: on wall street, the key indexes lost 1.6%. had the fed not raised rates, the market may have inferred more banks are at risk. regulators are under fire for failing to recognize the bank failing warning signs before it was too late. >> these people have ready access to anything they need, to be able to stop a problem in its tracks. now, it is coming under pretty heavy scrutiny from people saying, where were you? why weren't you paying attention? >> reporter: fed chair powell

promised a thorough review. >> my only interest is that we identify what went wrong here. how did this happen, is the question, what went wrong? >> all right. what went wrong and, willie, how did it happen? that's the question not only a lot of people at the fed are asking, across the world, but it is something steve kornacki is asking, too. wait a second. i built out this chart thing. it's taken me from the heart of 30 rock to the kentucky derby. >> the whole thing. >> to monday night football. >> the nfl, monday night football. he's got to be asking, how did it happen that rattner not only gets charts, but he gets the big board? >> look at this. >> come on, this business is cruel. one day, kornacki, he's the lemonade. >> one-day wonder. >> next day, he's the lemon. >> wow. >> look at this, kids.

let me just say, kids across america right now, the tv sets are turning from "spongebob" to "morning joe." they already had a weakness for rattner's charts. >> forget the big board, joe. steve has the big wall. look at the big, curved wall. >> wow. >> uncharacteristic, but steve rattner walked in the studio and said, "good morning," then quickly, "there's a new steve in town." i thought, wow. >> yo. >> that's a shot across the bow. he said something about kornacki, all kinds of trash talk. by the way, steve kornacki is on our show a little later, so he'll get the last word, perhaps. >> awkward. >> yeah. >> very uncomfortable. you know, as far as in the chart world, people say, actually, rattner is sort of the larry bird of charts. trash talking from the beginning to . biggest trash talker in the to . business. here we have it. >> joe, it's like when larry bird walked in the locker room

at the three-point contest in 1988 and said, "which one of your blankers is coming in second tonight?" that's effectively what steve said when he walked? >> okay, enough. >> it is very concerning. let's bring in former treasury -- >> he didn't say any of that. >> -- official and "morning joe" -- he said all of it and more. we're going to beat this out. steve, so charts aside, i was actually a little surprised yesterday that the fed went ahead and jacked up interest rates. just because of the volatility in the banking, it settled a little bit. maybe give it a little breather. they did not. i mean, now we've got ton a point, as you point out here, where the fed's expectations for where interest rates end up the end of the year actually above wall street's expectations. >> well, look, first of all, i have to say, i want to be sure everyone knows, i am a pale imitation of steve kornacki. >> oh, please.

>> while i do have a big board, i can't make it do magic like steve kornacki can. i'm only getting the junior big board. maybe at some point, i'll graduate to the senior big board. for now, you have to -- >> false humility. >> -- make due with me at this point. >> all right. go ahead. >> it's been a volatile time in the markets. not just the stock market which most viewers watch, but also the credit markets, where the fed operates. let me give you a sense of what has been going on. early february, the market was predicting a slight rise in interest rates and then a decline by the end of the year. then we started to get much stronger economic data come in. powell made a speech acknowledging that. suddenly, the market shot up and said, we think by the end of the year, it'll be 5.5%. you had the silicon valley incident, and then it was expected to have a cut in interest rates by the end of the

year. now, where we are, the market is expecting a couple more increases and then a decline. this is part of why the stock market went down yesterday, the fed is projecting interest rates will continue to go up and stay up through the end of the year. powell said, don't expect a cut this year. so the fed and the market have a very different view of life at the moment. the market was disappointed, a little bit, in the fed's reaction yesterday. >> which leads you to the second chart, steve, this balancing act for the fed, which is, we want to tame inflation, which is stubborn and sticking around, but we have thesystem, as well. >> the fed was trying to weigh this. before silicon valley bank, the market thought the fed would go up half a point. others thought it should go up nothing, recognizing there are still issues in the banking area. they split the baby and did half. one thing to think about is the banking crisis for the fed. i illustrated it here, showing how much banks borrow from the

federal reserve through the discount window. the peak of the '08 crisis, banks were borrowing a bit over $100 billion. as of yesterday, they had borrowed $153 billion, more than they had at the peak of the financial crisis. doesn't mean we are in a banking crisis, it means we have a fragile and volatile system that the fed has to worry about, as you heard in tom costello's runup. the other thing is inflation. back in february when the fed last had its meeting, it was running at 3%, these dark blue bars. we divide inflation between overall inflation and what we call core, where we take out food and energy because it bounces around a lot. when it showed up at its meeting this week, this is what the fed was looking at, headline inflation above 4% and core inflation above 5%. a long way from the fed's 2% target. therefore, the fed felt it had to do something to keep this economy slowing down. >> the focus, steve, is on the

hike of a quarter of a per percentage point. the fed also gives economic projections for the rest of the year. how'd that look? >> exactly, willie. this is part of what is a little disappointing. the economic outlook has been getting weaker, especially for this year. start with inflation. if you go back to last september, the fed does this four times a year, the fed thought inflation this year was going to be about 2.75%. by the meeting in december, it was a bit every 3%. yesterday, it was at about 3.25% by the end of the year. again, a long way from its long-run target of 2% over here, which the fed is still hoping to get to sometime in the next two or three years out there somewhere. unemployment, not a lot of change. expecting it to go up. it means a weaker jobs market. the fed needs to slow inflation. we'll see if that means

recession or not. in terms of growth, you have also had a deterioration. last september, expecting growth to be about 1.2%. now, the fed is expecting growth this year to be less than half a point. again, not quite a recession. we're kind of operating at stall speed. lower growth projections for 2024. hopefully a resumption. never getting really all that much robust growth in the immediate future. >> steve, you also have a new op-ed in "the new york times," entitled "is working from home really working?" in it, you write, quote, working from home, the great resignation, quiet quitting, whatever you want to call it, the attitude of many americans toward work has appeared to have changed during the long pandemic. and, generally speaking, not for the better. the new approach threatens to do long-lasting damage to economic growth and prosperity. the changing work habits have spawned a push for a codification of what may already be a reality.

a four-day workweek. proponents argue that with an extra day of rest, diligent workers can accomplish as much as they did in five days, perhaps put me down as skeptical about that and much of the notion that when it comes to work, less can be more. i have to say, a lot of women are not going to like hearing that. working from home made it possible for them to deal with the priorities they've been dealing with. working from home, especially post pandemic, is an option because the workplace is -- what do you think here? >> i think we have to recognize that there are disadvantages to working at home. you don't get to collaborate with your colleagues. you don't have mentorship. i personally find you can do a lot on zoom but not everything

on zoom. there's really no substitute in many professions for being in the office. it's also, look, important to note that this is a kind of form of white collar privilege. the vast majority of americans do not have the option to work from home. they have to go to the factory. they have to go to the hotel to work in housekeeping or behind the front desk. they have to go to the restaurant to be a waiter. this is something those of us in this class, so to speak, get to try out. i'm all for flexible work if that's what people want. we just have to recognize that it comes at a cost. at the end of my piece, where i basically say, i think that people can be somewhat more productive, but you still have to put in the hours. the question is, when you work from home, are you able to put in all the hours with the distractions and other chores you have to do? >> i think this is going to be an interesting question as we look at the next generation, steve. young people, especially, who are drawing some lines, only wanting to work from home. are they getting the -- are they

building relationships? are they making those connections? are they learning how to function in the real world? i think that's a whole other layer to this. but there is a dramatic change happening. a lot of people, not just women, are drawing some lines about what they're willing to do in order to do a certain job. >> i mean, let me answer the first part, no, you won't get the mentorship. you won't get the people looking over your shoulder, "what if you try to do this versus that?" you're not going to get the conference meetings where everybody gets in before the meeting, three, four minutes before the meeting, more of the stuff happens. you're talking back and forth. you're building relationships. you're figuring out where to take things. i mean, you're going to miss all of that. some people may choose to do that. it's also far more isolating. we talk about loneliness. we talk about depression. we talk about anxiety. sit in your apartment all the time?

i'm dead serious. i know people have been working at home since the pandemic. it's going to cause anxiety. it is going to cause depression. you talk to mental health counselors. they'll tell you that. steve, it's interesting, though, we're talking about what the workers are deciding they're going to do and what they're not going to do. i called somebody that i hadn't spoken with since the pandemic. i said, "oh, how many days are you working from home? are you still at home?" he's like, "nope! boss called me back in, you know, a year and a half ago." he was a partner in this firm, but he said, "i'm here four days a week." they let the partners and older people that they don't think need the mentorship quite as much be in four days a week. the younger workers are in five days a week. we're talking about choices. the end of the day, this all comes down to, does it not, what the company's policy is. the companies that decide they're going to let people come

in whatever they feel like coming in, they're probably the ones, based on the business, probably the ones who are going to suffer the most, right? >> sure. first of all, mika made the point, and you referred to it, as well, choices. people make choices. i'm all for people making choices. if people choose they don't want to be part of the rat race completely, want to dial it back a bit, whatever, that's all fine. you have to accept there are consequences economically if the country becomes less productive. people are going to have less income. people who make the choices may accept they'll have lower incomes, as well. as far as going back to the office is concerned, it's kind of a tug of war between the bosses and the workers. every boss i've talked to for that piece, and i talked to many, believe that everything you just said, about it being better in the office. they want people back. they're trying to get people back. it is also a competitive world. if you work at company a and company b says you can work remotely, and that's important

to you, you're likely to go to company b. there is a tug of war going on. i think, for the most part, people are not going to be back and are not back in the office five days a week. the world seems to be settling out at three or four days a week. that's where the tug of war sits at the moment. we'll see where it goes. >> yeah. of course, there is no hard set rule. it depends on what you do. it depends on your skill sets. if you are a great graphic designer and an artist that is much better in your loft apartment or somewhere else, you know, that's something -- >> decades of experience. >> yeah. if there is more of a team setting, though, obviously, it's something that bosses are going to have to figure out and employees are going to have to figure out, unions will have to figure out, everything is going to have to figure out. what i want to figure out is jen psaki, i want to figure out what jen is doing this weekend. you know, last weekend, as i told ya, more people watched than watched the beatles when

they played on "ed sullivan." nielsen says one out of every three tv sets this weekend was tuned into jen psaki. can you believe that, willie? >> wow. >> jen psaki, this weekend, what have you got for us? >> we don't have guests to preview yet, maybe today. we're waiting on a few developments, joe. i don't know if you've heard of this out there, to see what happens. >> yeah. >> but we are planning to do is really deep dive into all of these legal cases, help viewers better understand what exactly is happening here. it's a lot to follow. it is hard to follow. we're going to take people behind the scenes, as we did with eric adams last weekend, with someone new this weekend. stay tuned. >> like all great operators, willie, she keeps the cards close to the chest. >> yup. >> i'll have more later today. >> exactly. >> jen, thanks for being on. we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> thank you so much, steve rattner.

you started sort of a turf battle here. i expect tridents to come out by the time kornacki is on. >> are you kidding me? waiting for him at the door. good luck, steve. as usual, it's a few minutes past the top of the hour. second hour of "morning joe." jonathan lemire and michael steele are still with us. >> we can talk about the classified documents but -- >> which is the bigger story. >> it is. willie, what do grifting thing, where donald trump knew he wasn't going to be charged tuesday but went ahead and did it as a fundraising grift? he's raised, well, $1.5 million. >> three days. >> by the way, we're going, okay, why does he want to be handcuffed? he wants to be handcuffed because that means more money. again, i keep talking about the jim and tammy faye bakker approach to politics.

i still am surprised by the level of tammy faye bakker in donald trump. >> yeah. also, let's remember, he built his entire life and his presidential campaign in 2016 on "i'm a rich guy. i don't owe anybody anything. i don't need your money. i'm doing this because i love you. i'm doing this to save you and protect you." meanwhile, he is making up lies. i'm going to be arrested tuesday. so he can take the money of the people who support him. if you need the money, are you a billionaire or not? it is an open question because he keeps taking money from his supporters. "new york post," "cuff love," saying donald trump wants to be handcuffed because he is raising money off of the case. obviously, he is putting this narrative out there so he can raise money, just like he did with stop the steal and build that wall. we've got to get this done. send me your hard-earned money, donald trump supporters. i can't pay for it myself, including footing his legal bills in all these cases. he is asking the people who support him to send a few bucks

here and there to pay for his lawyers. >> another story, which we'll talk about later on in "the new york post," which is the paper of record for "morning joe," is ron desantis. we get the breaking news, the hard-hitting news, that ron loves the people of ukraine. we'll get to that in a little bit. >> all right. >> first, mika, let's start with the developing story. >> exactly. one of the legal battles involving former president trump. this one, perhaps, a lot more serious to what the manhattan d.a.'s office comes up with, though a crime is a crime. nbc news can confirm a u.s. district judge ruled the department of justice did present sufficient evidence to establish trump committed a crime through his attorneys, related to the classified documents found at mar-a-lago. judge howell issued her finding in a sealed filing last friday. it is important to note that

judge howell was not ruling on whether trump was guilty of a crime but was making a decision on whether his attorney could be compelled to testify. the judge ruled in favor of applying the so-called crime fraud exception, meaning trump attorney evan corcoran can't claim attorney-client privilege to avoid testifying. the judge ruled in favor of ordering corcoran to testify before the grand jury, convened by special counsel jack smith, who is currently investigating the former president's handling of the classified documents after leaving office. now, at the same time, "the washington post" reports a federal appeals court ruled yesterday to uphold judge howell's ruling, ordering corcoran to turn over notes, transcripts and other evidence to prosecutors and to return to the grand jury to answer prosecutors' questions more fully. that could even be tapes. >> yeah. >> yikes.

>> we'll talk about the possibility of tapes. michael steele, as you know, i say it all the time, i'm a simple country lawyer. fell off a turnip truck outside of 30 rock. got a show. it's crazy. even i know this is not good news. >> no. >> the fact you have a federal judge saying it's likely a crime was committed, and we're going to make you turn over attorney-client documents, talk about the impact of that. >> i mean, it's significant. it is a very strong ruling, and for folks just to understand how sacrosanct the attorney-client privilege is, i mean, the least, little thing can really put that delicate balance in peril. so when the judge looks at this case and looks at this particular aspect of the case, what she saw here is the fact that there is indications that

donald trump put his lawyer in jeopardy, potentially by lying to his lawyer about certain facts. because of that, you now have this exception coming into play. it generally goes into, you know, behaviors of the lawyer, behaviors of the client, and how that affects that whole idea of attorney-client privilege. and doing things that break that privilege. in this case, there was clearly evidence there that donald trump probably, looking at it from that standpoint, said something, told his lawyer, gave his lawyer information, put his lawyer in the situation where that privilege claim could not be upheld. now, we'll get to see at some point what that was. but it is a significant turn in this case. it really says a lot about how, in many respects, and we have seen this before, joe, donald

trump does not give his lawyers everything. he does not share with them everything. he piecemeals it out to them, the fact pattern if you will. this is an example where they get caught. we've seen it before. you know, in this mar-a-lago case, the lawyer is out there saying, "yeah, we got everything because donald trump said that was everything." come to find out, that's not everything. there's still 100 documents. they're on record. they've certified this on court document saying, "yeah, that's everything. we're good". >> that's bad. >> judge is like, yeah, attorney-client privilege is not going to protect you here, mr. trump. >> jackie alemany has been doing new reporting on this. she's the congressional investigations reporter for "the washington post," joins us now. jackie, let's dig into this further. effectively, what this panel is saying is attorney-client privilege in this case is gone.

we've blown it up because we believe that maybe donald trump lied to his lawyers, exposing himself to potential obstruction of justice here. how is this going to play out from here? >> yeah. willie, you're exactly right. the judge ordered yesterday on an extraordinarily quit timeline that, essentially, trump's team needs to provide this evidence to prosecutors. evan corcoran needs to hand over these transcripts, notes and audio recordings, because his legal services may have been used to faciitate a crime. as part of howell's original order, as well, and her ruling last friday, this is what she had said, that she -- that needed to be turned over to the prosecutors. she actually turned it over as soon as she issued this ruling, which is sort of unusual in a case like this. hence, in part, why there was such a quick turnaround with a

6:00 a.m. deadline and a ruling from this appeals court in a matter of hours. as for what's next, we're waiting to see if trump's team and evan corcoran are going to file another appeal. this could go up to the supreme court potentially, but that is unclear. if they decide not to, that means corcoran will essentially appear before the grand jury imminently to answer all of these questions and discuss this material that now four different judges have decided is evidence that the former president potentially committed a crime. >> jackie, let's explore how this is being received in trump world. you mentioned they're still considering what they're going to do legally. just in terms of the peril it poses, there's a lot of bluster about the manhattan d.a.'s office. a lot of fundraising off of that. what is their degree of worry about what is happening here with this significant development? >> this is a development we're

not hearing as much about from the trump camp, which i think is telling in and of itself. you know, you've heard a lot of trump's defenders come forward and say that the manhattan d.a.'s potential indictment is helping his poll numbers, it's helpingfundraising, but this is something people are not touching. you know, implied in a lot of these gop defenses that we're seeing is that there are potentially more serious charges down the line, which is really what theish issue with the manhattan d.a.'s office has been. there are gop lawmakers who, instead of defending trump, are intend training their eye on alvin bragg, claims this is a miscarriage of justice and it doesn't rise to the level of taking an extraordinary step to indict a former president for the first time in history.

with the mar-a-lago case, there's very little conversation. i think there is some concerns and potentially, you know, it'll be extremely telling if the legal team decides ultimately not to file an appeal. because they realize the decision and howell's original ruling is so strong. >> jackie alemany of "the washington post," thank you for your reporting. see you soon. joining us now, political correspondent at "the new york times," michael c. bender. president and ceo of the leadership conference on civil and human rights, legal analyst maya wiley joins us. great to see you, maya. >> michael, you've written some fascinating articles recently. headlines have been fascinating themselves. "magical thinking and a fixation." talk about not the year of magical thinking, but at least a week or two of magical thinking,

where donald trump, at times, seems oblivious to the legal gauntlet that he is going to have to be walking through over the next six months. >> that's right. donald trump, as you know, joe, is someone who had a fear of being arrested for most of his life and it's always been in the back of his mind. he's created relationships along the way in his business career, and now his political career, to help him walk that line of legality. in mar-a-lago, he does not want to get arrested. let me be clear. he does not want to be indicted. he is trying to figure out a way to manage the political fallout to his advantage. he's created this pressure campaign, right? going after the manhattan d.a. calling the democrat opponents animals and thugs. making crude jokes about ron desantis along the way. and trump and his team have, to a degree, convinced themselves that this pressure campaign is having an effect on alvin bragg and the manhattan district attorney's office, that he may

not bring charges against the former president because of this pressure campaign. we heard similar things back when he was in the white house, about to be impeached by nancy pelosi's house, democratic house, that the trump white house convinced themselves they'd turned enough democrats to defeat that vote. that was obviously a miscalculation. probably, he is here again. it goes to show that he's more focused on the political aspects of this. in fact, he's anticipating what we know as a perp-walk in the business. that moment when law enforcement brings a newly arrested person past a crew of journalists. trump is imagining, should i smile in front of the camera? how will this resonate with the american public? to be clear, we don't think there will be a perp walk. that's not up to donald trump. it's up to secret service and

law enforcement that probably want to avoid a media circus. it gives you a sense of where his state of mind is down in mar-a-lago. >> i mean, what he is interested in is obviously whatever gets him the most money, raises him the most money, as we found out. the lie on sunday was about raising 1 -- $1.5 million. maya, we heard this from media outlets over the weekend, cable news hosts, democrats threading, saying, oh, this is not a big enough case to arrest donald trump. i just wonder what message we send. if an alleged billionaire who is ex-president of the united states doesn't get indicted for a crime in new york state for $130,000 hush money payoff to a porn star right before a

presidential election, and, yet, new yorkers get arrested and charged under the same crime for a $1,900 couch, stating its value wrong on an insurance form. or returning items to lord & taylor you didn't really buy there and getting store credit. getting arrested for that. or a teacher using a fake covid-19 vaccine card to try to get a day off from school. i'm just wondering, how can there be equal justice under the law when these new yorkers get charged under this crime and, yet, republicans, some, i'll just say, bed-wetting liberals on other networks, and some democrats say, "oh, it'd send the wrong message." if we actually live by the belief that no man or woman is above the law. >> i can't say it any better than that, joe.

straight up, honest truth here is that every single person, no matter your political party, no matter who you are, should be saying, look, we should be very concerned when someone with the amount of power and wealth breaks our laws, then works to obstruct the breaking of our laws. because even in that mar-a-lago case, that's the pattern with donald trump. a lot of these investigations really include the behavior, also that, i'm going to do the crime and bury it so that i can continue to get away with it. then use our own democratic processes against our democracy. because the rule of law here, both in the case of an alvin bragg, who now we have republicans in congress talking about hauling him in? there's no power or control in a democratic process for federal

lawmakers to go after a locally elected official doing his job. which is to go after anyone they believe committed a crime.jury, right? we have a process, a due process, and donald trump is getting it right now. >> maya, let's just talk procedurally here and use your good lawyer's brain about what happens from here. as michael reported, there may be a new witness today, which would mean maybe there's not a vote on a potential indictment, anyway, until sometime next week. if the former president is indicted, and that's an open question, what happens from here? do you suspect we'll see him downtown in manhattan being walked into the courthouse? how does this look? >> look, i mean, i think as was stated earlier, we have never known when an indictment would come down, even whether, though we suspect it will, and what that indictment will be for. i'm not surprised to hear that

there may be another witness. let must just say that. any time you have the witness that we saw in mr. costello, of course, they have to consider whether to provide more evidence to a grand jury. i do think you will see, one, some attention to avoiding an appearance that donald trump is being somehow undermined as a candidate. rightly, there will be some sensitivity to that. but i think there is also going to be a balance there. so donald trump will have the opportunity, probably, to present himself. there may be an organized arrangement about how that happens to preserve some dignity and decorum at the same time he is held accountable. >> michael bender, wanted to provide you with some color. just down the street from the manhattan courthouse where the trump proceedings are going on is film set for the upcoming "joker" sequel. they're filming this weekend a scene that's going to have 700 people, explosions, and lady

gaga. i think that feels appropriate for the spectacle we're seeing there. that's not where donald trump will be this weekweekend. he'll be in waco, texas, his first major rally of the campaign. what do you expect from hear from him in a location that's raised eyebrows? >> definitely. i think we have a sense of what we will see from trump and hear from his crowd. i mean, this is -- just look at where we're at right now in the week with donald trump. i mean, he's gone on social media and announced he is going to be arrested without any information. again, making crude, sexual jokes about ron desantis, calling him the manhattan d.a. a woke tyrant. that's before he gets to the rally stage, where he is often at his most politically reckless. you know, the other interest thing here, i think, heading into waco, this is -- he's going back into the crowd here, right?

trump thrives around his people. we're talking about this indictment, possible indictment. he is facing the front runner of the republican party, he is facing four charges right now. in waco, his supporters who come out for him time and time again, year after year, these are the folks who are keeping him in the race and his grip tight around the republican party. >> all right. michael c. bender of "the new york times" and legal analyst maya wiley, thank you, both, very much for being on this morning. a couple other quick news stories before we go to break. russia's attacks on civilians in ukraine have now let up. yesterday, this missile strike on an apartment building in ukraine's zaporizhzhia region killed at least one person and put 25 in the hospital. three of those civilians are

still in critical condition this morning. elsewhere throughout ukraine, russian strikes killed eight other civilians 40 miles south of kyiv. russian drone attacks there struck a high school and two dormitories, putting an additional 20 people in the hospital. the death toll in this attack may rise as the number of people killed in the dormitories wasn't immediately clear. meanwhile, ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy visited near the front line city of bakhmut yesterday. the surprise appearance coming days after russian president putin visited the illegally annexed city of mariupol, located within ukraine's donetsk region. bakhmut is the scene of a brutal struggle between ukrainian and russian forces, dating back to last summer. yesterday, the uk's ministry of defense suggested russia may be losing momentum in the area as soldiers are reallocated to other locations.

we have more conversations, many more ahead on this. still ahead on "morning joe," new reporting on how 2024 republican hopefuls are grappling with how to take on trump. we'll bring in the reporter of that piece. plus, what we're learning this morning about a shooting at a high school in denver that seriously injured two faculty members. and this story out of michigan. republican state lawmakers are facing new backlash, comparing gun legislation to the holocaust. >> actually, the holocaust, the holocaust, people killed in the holocaust. here, you actually have gun safety advocates trying to save children and colleges trying to save young children, babies at elementary schools. think you need to find a better analogy. >> you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

as americans, there's one thing we can all agree on. the promise of our constitution and the hope that liberty and justice is for all people. but here's the truth. attacks on our constitutional rights, yours and mine are greater than they've ever been. the right for all to vote. reproductive rights. the rights of immigrant families. the right to equal justice for black, brown and lgbtq+ folks. the time to act to protect our rights is now. that's why i'm hoping you'll join me today in supporting the american civil liberties union. it's easy to make a difference. just call or go online now and become an aclu guardian of liberty. all it takes is just $19 a month. only $0.63 a day. your monthly support will make you part of the movement to protect the rights of all people, including the fundamental right to vote. states are passing laws that would suppress the right to vote. we are going backwards.

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allegedly shot and killed children and an active duty soldier in a shooting in carolina. the suspect carried out the shootings at his ex-wife's home on tuesday. the man allegedly shot the soldier who was the ex-wife's coworker, and then killed three young children. two of whom were his own. before turning the gun on himself. in colorado, the suspected shooter at a high school in denver has been found dead after an intense man hunt that spanned hours. the 17-year-old was a student under a safety plan and was padded down every morning as he entered the building. the shooting happened after a firearm was discovered on the student, who police say then opened fire, wounding two faculty members before fleeing the school. the spokesperson for denver health says one of the administrators was released in good condition, while the other remains hospitalized in serious condition. police say the suspect's body was found near his car around

9:00 p.m. last night in a remote area about 30 minutes from the school, mika. the michigan republican party is facing bipartisan backlash after comparing recently passed restrictions on guns to the holocaust in social media posts on wednesday. in a tweet, the state party wrote, history has shown us that the first thing a government does when it wants total control over its people is to disarm them. president reagan once stated, if we lose freedom here, there is nowhere else to escape to. this is the last stand on earth. the text on the photo says, "before they collected all these wedding rings, they collected all the guns." the photograph in the tweet is a box of wedding rings that were removed by the nazis from holocaust victims. in its facebook post, the party added, no good can come from a

disarmed population. the posts, just sickening, come as the michigan senate recently passed a gun reform package that includes red flag laws, safe storage requirements, and universal background checks, in light of the mass shooting at michigan state university and oxford high school. michigan congresswoman and senate candidate elissa slotkin condemned the tweet and called for the michigan gop to delete it. writing, in part, comparing gun safety measures to the mass extermination of 6 million people is hateful and ignorant, and it comes from party leaders who are out of ideas and catering to the fringe of the fringe. matt brooks of the washington-based republican jewish coalition calls the post absolutely inappropriate and offensive and said they should be removed immediately. in response to the backlash, the head of the michigan gop, an

election denier and a failed secretary of state candidate, stood by the post. writing in a statement, in part, our second amendment was put in place to protect us from tyrants. michigan gop stands by our statement. michael steele, there are no words. >> no. >> except that the danger of trumpism and right-wing extremism and conspiracy theorists and down right racists, it's still so real, it's palpable. >> it is. and it is metastasized in the michigan party, which has been sort of, you know, bat you-know-what crazy for a while now. it's culminated in the election of this chairwoman, who clearly is tone deaf, not just to the

politics here but the historical, you know, inference that you're making by comparing this particular battle over gun rights to the holocaust. it just really speaks to how -- to what you said about how the catering to the hard right. it's even more than that. it's just a complete -- being desensitized to the feelings, the impact, how people are perceiving what you're doing. they don't care. they don't care you're upset by this. they're animated by the fact that we've tweaked you a little bit and made you nervous or concerned. there are broader implications here about what it means for the party, for sure. but you're going to see these types of examples, mika, as more and more of the maga wing of the

party takes hold and cements in their control of state party organizations. which goes back to a strategy from 2016/2017, as trumpism began to rise. that's always been a part of the plan. so there's more of this to come. we see it play out in other places like arizona and in election battles. it's also going on inside the structure of the party itself and the fact that the chairwoman can't find a brain cell to recognize that all the screaming and shouting from her fellow republicans, by the way, on something like this should tell her that she's in the wrong lane. but she doesn't care. that right-wing base is what she's got to feed. >> except, mika, and michael eluded to this, there's the politics of this, too. let's remember, it wasago that

through the elections, the governor's race, gretchen whitmer winning by double digits because of the extreme candidates. democrats now control michigan because of the very extremism that the party in michigan seems to be leaning right into with this tweet. >> yeah. it's not just ichigan and arizona. kari lake is still complaining her loss isn't real and making people pray for her, put her in office somehow. it's crazy. it's very real. it's very dangerous. coming up, the ceo of tiktok will be on capitol hill today to defend the popular video sharing app against privacy concerns. we'll speak with a cyber security expert about whether we should be worried about china using the platform to collect american user data. plus, one lawmaker calling for a ban. senator michael bennett will join the conversation. "morning joe" will be right back.

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♪♪ look at the cherry blossoms. they're beautiful this morning in washington, d.c. are we ready for spring? it is 20 minutes before the top of the hour. tiktok ceo is set to testify before the house energy and commerce committee this morning amid growing concerns in congress and the biden administration that the chinese-owned app could be giving american data to the chinese government. nbc news correspondent savannah sellers has the latest. >> more than 150 million americans on tiktok. >> reporter: ahead of an expected grilling, the tiktok ceo using the platform to appeal to the millions of viewers. >> some politicians have started talking about banning. >> reporter: in prepared remarks, he plans to highlight tiktok's massive reach, twiel

while also addressing safety and security. saying firewall protected data will be not allowed to unauthorized foreign access and not manipulated by foreign governments. tiktok creators flown in by the company to explain what a potential ban could mean for them and other users. tell me what it would mean if tiktok went away for you, for your life. >> i would be so sad if that went away, and i hope it don't happen. >> reporter: at issue, tiktok's parent company, byte dance, and its ties to china. critics fear the chinese government might get access to user data or use the app to spread misinformation. today's hearing comes amid the back drop of the biden administration's ultimatum to byte dance, sell or face a ban. also, the claim that the company illegally surveyed journalists, which tiktok says three

employees have been fired. >> we need to ask questions. i don't trust what they've been telling us. >> reporter: for jason lynton, whose videos on adoption and foster care have 13 million followers, it's changed his life. >> tiktok built us a community that we can share so much of those emotions, so much of those moments, so much of the pains. we can share it, and we can just encourage one another. >> nbc's savannah sellers reporting there. joining us now in studio, the founding partner of the stamos group, alex stamos. he's previously served as chief security officer at facebook and yahoo!. than x for being here. appreciate it. >> thanks, willie. >> there are young people, parents, content creators watching this hearing closely today. the ceo of tiktok is showing up. he's going to testify and defend his company before this committee. as somebody who knows this stuff so well, what are your concerns

about tiktok? >> i'm the parent of a teenager, and i've seen how incredibly popular tiktok has become. everybody under 25 or so in in country. i think there are three major categories of concern. people are worried about tiktok being able to manipulate american conversation. unlike a twitter, facebook, instagram, the number one reason you see something on tiktok is because of the algorithm. it can manipulate things. there are also the voices against chinese interests. for me, the most interesting thin is the privacy issue. one of the things that came out of this testimony is that tiktok is on 150 million phones. that's a lot of data. the number one thing i worked on at facebook was internal data access controls. that was hard enough without my employees being under the physical control of the people's republic of china. so, you know, most of tiktok's code comes from beijing. it is extremely difficult for them to give any guarantee as to the safety of u.s. data as long as that's happening.

>> so mr. chew, the ceo of tiktok, said not only do we not give data to the chinese government, they've never asked us for the data. do you believe him when he says that? >> i don't. first, we have proof that chinese employees of byte dance were able to access tiktok's data to find out information about a journalist what was writing critical stories about tiktok. there was already an example of that. that's not driven by the government, but the same functionality that would allow them to get in there. the other issue is over the last couple years, we've seen a massive crackdown on tech companies in china. president xi is the most powerful premier and general secretary of the chinese communist party since mao. he has a third term and has been consolidaing power. in doing so, he's put powerful tech ceos in jail. jack ma of alibaba. as we speak, the largest tech banker in china disappeared. nobody knows where he is. it's very difficult for them to make the argument in a situation

where that kind of power has been demonstrated by the chinese security services, that they would be able to resist any request from the chinese government. >> what is the practical concern, just to bring it to ground level, of collecting all this data, of tiktok having 100 million americans' data? what does that mean? what could they do with it that could be harmful? >> right. when you think about chinese surveillance, you have to look at the big picture. chinese services have chunks of data and put it together. they broke into anthem health care, airplane reservations, starwood to get the passports of people staying in hotels around the world. they broke into the office of personnel management and stole the classification records of 20 million american employees, u.s. employees with clearances.

you put all that together, you can build kind of knowledge about the entire life of these people who work in classified positions. that is an incredibly powerful functionality when you have it all together. tiktok by itself, yes, the data is probably not incredibly valuable, but when you combine it with all this other -- all these other things, and they have not stopped in the hacking campaign. they continue to go after large holders of data on american citizens. when you put it together, there is a huge number of questions their intelligence services are able to answer when they have them about american citizens. perhaps for counterintelligence services, but also to understand what is going on in america and possibly, in the long run, to manipulate political sentiment, which is one of the bigger concerns about tiktok. >> there are a bunch of experts who pointed out, okay, you want to ban tiktok, go ahead. it is no longer available in the united states of america. but there are a whole bunch of other companies and apps that are effectively doing the same thing. >> that's right, yeah.

this is the funny thing. we don't really have a law in the united states that controls what data can you move to china. we do not have a privacy law in the united states. the rest of the developed world has come up with federal privacy laws or privacy laws that control what can you do with data? where can it go? who can access it? that is a missed opportunity here. yes, we can squish tiktok, and everybody can pat each other on the back for this bipartisan consensus. in the end, there are hundreds of chinese games, mobile apps, discussion forums, social media apps. there are dozens and dozens of potential tiktoks out there. just destroying tiktok does nothing to set a standard for how do we want companies to deal with data? yes, let's talk about tiktok, but let's use it as an example of why we need a federal privacy law to control the behavior of both american and chinese companies. >> do you think it'll be banned at the end of the day, tiktok? >> i think so. i mean, i think there's a lot of momentum here. it is one of the few things that congress can agree on.

just to get a little bit of a win, i do think it is possibly going to be banned. how you ban it actually turns out to be a difficult question. what kind of powers do you have to do that? we don't have a great firewall of the united states. yes, congress can pass a law that says tiktok can't operate in the u.s. the actual international headquarters of tiktok, the part of tiktok that operates as head of china is singapore. say they repeat to singapore and offer a service to american citizens. now, what does the u.s. government do? that's part of the chess move that people haven't really thought about. if you don't pass the law that controls all of these data flows, you end up creating this problem with tiktok. we're going to ban them and not have the power to stop americans from using it. i just think the i think the administration is backing themselves into a corner here. >> we have news that china's government says it will to pose possible u. thñ( chinese owner to sell the

service as a security risk and warns it hurts investor confidence in the united states. >> yeah. makes total sense. xi again didn't really care about the chinese tech industry except how to serveok the chine communist party.jf i think tiktok is a pawn in a geopolitical game. >> such anok interesting story. you explain it so well. merñ thank you. xd next, march madness tonig witht( theq start of the sweet and steve kornacki willq break down the fámatchup. that's up next on "morning joeiá

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♪♪ a few minutes before the top of the hour. let's look at the morning papers. "the green bay press gazette" has a feature on the governor's proposal to repeal the ss#) abortion ban. it would restore abortion access making it legal until 20e1 week oflplp pregnancy. thexd bill comes as republicans debate creatingxdxd exceptionse the ban. in maryland "the daily times" reports mike pence is suggesting reforming theq ñrcountry's soci security and immediate carexd programs. he told an audience we can introduce common sense reforms who will not touch anyoneq in retirement for will retire in the next 25 years. he stopped naming ñ0 the former vice president is

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discussing with democratse1 wip them out. >> wiped them out. >> taking back the legislature for theçó firstñiq time inñr 4 because of the extremism largely toñi appoint someone as the hea of the party who continues in that direction and leans into that stuff doesn't makee1 political sense. forget about whether or not it's the right thing to do. >> makesxd no political sense a all. and you can be two things at once. got problems withlpe1 joe biden the direction joe biden --lpe1 problems with the directi i'm proud of the intel agencies. they need to work on some things. but democratse1 and republicans alike could agree that the fbi made fámistakes. hillary clinton will tell you

the fbi madeçó horrificr but it is9■ constant hating on america. i wantg jennifer was, of course,t( form chair of new hampshire qo( know why i!u■ say that? not because ronald reagani] sai it but because iñi believea5■ i i lovenb■ñi this country. four years of donald trump doesn't "p

it isxd grotesque! it is yet another liee1 from th trump righ÷.z meát united states of america hs brought more prosperity, 0q)eedom, independence to more people around thexd world than y other country in the history of the world and what donald trump is doing is typical. he is a sociopath. he makes up a story.t( tells it to enough people toçó echo it back theçó him and believesr what's grotesque is the kevin

50% ofçó americans coul/1 belie there's a e1xdxbroad, wideu donald trump. i would also say michael steele ■ got it almost right whenq he said that the republicanlpxd party isa5■ cate the extremexd right. the republican party is the extreme right today. there are no reagan republicans willing to step up and tell the trump's opponents running against him don't have the courage to stand up against this guy saying that the united states is worse than putin, worse than russia. tapá's insane.

>> yeah. but hex

we're not talking a game ofi] inches.t( this isçó donald trump doesn't need to lose 10% of thefá votersi] in õwbisu6ju)jy lose another t(.4%, another .2%n michigan. and when youçóó[■ start talkingq terminatinge1 t(■fá constitutio the united states, when you say that we're a greaterr western civilization than a criminal thatw3xd invaded a eurn sovereign nation, when youñr goo helsinki and you say to your question that youfá trustq vladr putin more than you trust men5a and women that have g■6cn their lives, that have risked theirp,■ live,d

protect usfá from domestic terrorism, fromw3 foreign terrorism, from drugxd cartels, from you name it, whent( he onc again goes in with vladimir putin. maybe he doesn't loselp 5%. look whatvxzdonald trump said. i can get ar fine. you will lose in wisconsin.ñy you lost5a■ in 2020. you loseokqó[■ a!u■ little bit 2024. republicans lose more in 2026.e1 they have lost six years in a row. they keepa5■q losingko■ñr if th turn the bapd on t0ebko■ñr co6e theory nonsense. and if they don't stop hating on america. by the way,r i *q more on russia's military? giver ardened and

shrunk andq doing nothing to expand it. everything he is doing is to play to the narrow and growinge narrower slice. you are seeing it in media coverage and other candidates desantis chief among t0e■lp foll]wkng theçó lead on things like ukraine. but asxd analysts fromxd both parties i speakçóçó to, include some who think about politics every day in the weste1 çówing,y don't see how trump picked upq single vote since 2020. now are there legitiu5ut concerns they may feel about the president or thelp policies? sure. they vote for the republican nominee anyway.lp swing vote everies, the independent voters, those that gave trump a tryt(q in i]20eft

him ine1 2020. the issue is there's no sense that trump dide1 anything to expand the base and right now bells going off that they don't see a wayu■q=■ break the trump fever. >> theq swing voters0l■ in wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania, :6pp÷georgia, the( voters in different states that voted for bill clinton bill clinton twice. then for george w. bush twice. and then some ofw3 them voteda5p barack ob!'■ twice. and then donald trump and then j you don't have ae1 tru]x voter become a bidena5■ voter become trumtu issue.

that's the desantisñr issue. that's why biden people areñr worried about ron desantis because ite1 makes sense far vor going trump in '16 and biden in '20 to say maybe i'll go desantis in ñrxd'24. maybe i'll try somebody new.ñi that makes more sense let me sad than theselp pe)v&e bouncing ba toñr donald trump when like you said he is only more extreme and hating on america more,e1 throwg in the lot withi]xd vladimir pu more. 'j4a■ the republican party again aiming to destroy the chances. >>w3 bring in national senior correspondent forçó "the washington post" ashley parker. your reporting is "gop 2024 hopefulsfá grapple with howlp t

take on trump"q@ 3q you writeq thatçó the question isçói]q stag the 2024 republicanxd hopefuls. attacking trump is a delicater balance. those that need to dislodge the grip on the party while not alienating the loyal base. they believe the biggest weaknesses are fatigue with the chaos and controversies. theñw;7ççó baseless claims that ■ showing by republicans in thejfq 2022 midterm elections. republicans have begun to consider andqçó testing othere1 messaging. you look at ron desantis maybe rom look at ron desantis maybe donald trump and finding footing away from him but other candidates stilli] trying to appeal to that base. do you break thefá feverjf or j

walk away from it at this point? becauseçt loses. >> joek passionate and compelling case fhrepublican party at all a would be deeplyt( problematic wh the swing ÷da5■voters in a gener election.e!p &h(lc% !1!%uuuráh)epublican rivals in■ primary grapple withjf a veryxd different< ■ question which is before they get to the swing votersñi they have toi] defeat trump. you can't use the same sort ofs attacks that might work for a suburban momt( in wisconsin or michigan or pennsylvania. and the challenge is exactly that. a lot of them would privately qbyreak the feverçó but grappling with did they justxdcd say, look,e1 trump'sñr ultra ma loyalists never leave him or try toñr c

smell test but they think wouldn't itñi be nice to have a1 nominee who's notñi facing multiple investigations and indictments? that's where you have people like ron desantis, nikki haley, mike pence whoe1 hasn't declare 9■ slightly different lane and 9■ can't totally attack trumpe1i] ä!cause that oftent( alienates republicanlp voters. >> jennifer, we watched in 2016 asi] rival to donald trump in t republican primary tried to go after him, ignoring him didn'to

work. out-trump trump and embarrassed themselves. it doesn'tw3zv■ work. now walking the line as we watc( this weeklp with ron desantis o trying to laugh him off a little bit.lp saying i'm too busy being a good governor. how should ron desantise1 if he does get in the race handle the guy? >> look. none of the çóñicandidates, nob in the party will agree with me. as long as they are trying to walk thatok line and have'c■okgt on each side of the trump line they are not showing thed boldness, the courage,a5■!u■ no separating themselves enough to appeal to anybody genuinely looking for not trump.t( these candidates that ar# trying these candidates that ar# trying to --lmpá they are trying to ez on the message that

policieszv■q are good. trump's got it right at theñi core. we yh we shouldn't be supporting ukraine. you can't do it. and same thingxd happened in 20. ixd lost track ofi] how many conversation i hadxd in 2016 wi campaigns saying when doesn't care about policy and nationaljf security. the high point of theçóçó presiy is watching american citizens

i saidñrw3 a second ago he is a sociopath. i don't know how you run agains( a sociopath other thanqñi to ca him that and completely separate yourself from it but none have been willing to do thatfá so fa >> they don't wantñi toçó sacri his supporters in thew3 t(proce >> exactly. >> jennifer horn, great to have you on thisqñi morning. thank you. the manhattan district attorn=ysm■r office in a criminal casexd involvingfá donald trump. sources say alvin bragg called themfá to reconvene. the former president trump accused of paying $130,000 stormy daniels to keep her kawhi yet about thep,■ alleged affair from a decadeçó before. with us now expectative director of new york.org david rode.t(qz■

good morning. he had a piece of advice to alvin fábragg saying threexdxd justice department officials predicted a protracted,5a■ ugly■ raucous public and legalçóe1 fi ahead. not to be named butt(u david, bragg ignored thexd nois from donald trump's camp and

from donald trump's camp and "the post" said hexd wou,q what is your sense how they are? they know the stakes a make history downtown if they indict a former president for íh■ firstr >> the problemñr here isxd that prosecutors are limited in what they can say and partw3xd of th american system that the prosecutor shouldn't be trying to sway potential jurors' opinions. trump will use that toxd his advantage. youe1 mentioned aboutxd threate jurors with violence and afraid of participating in this trial. heñi threatened axd judge?çó threatened prosecutors? the judgew3 will be a real challenge. ifçóçó there are e1r precedent where a judge tor gag order onçó trump.

rogere1 stolwsrj case posted a picture of the judge and put a target on ther the judge put onçóçó a wj"q qor. it is a trickyxd thing. the judge could jail trump if he refuses to abide by basic rules theqe1 backdrop of the power of donald trump to send in peop to protest orxdzv■ worse. do theyfáó[■ think about that s? do they think about the consequences outside of the courthouse? >> they don't fear violence and lawlessness. a thing to see with this trump trial is have the hundreds of convictions ofqz] january 6

gqáerred people from go and doing this for donald trump( supporters are being sentenced ñok is not. what prosecutors are thinking ÷? if you bringqzañ weak caselp an lose does it undermine public confidence in the fairness of the american judicial system? that's the decision of 5a■bragg. the officials thought the georgia case and possible federal case on january 6 or the documentsc case are stronger thn new york.w3 this is alvin bragg's decision. whatever happens he should beçó calm and nonpartisan and not õake trump's bait. >>■i what is the sense of where this is rightq now? do you suspect an indictment is coming? maybeçó this week or next?

>> i thinkxd so. the train l american datañi stored on ameri1 soil.

the senate is pushing a bill to grant the biden administration the power to implement a nationwide ban on the appi] if needed.e1 joining usa5■ nowfáfáó[■ democr senatorfá michael bennet oft( ua colorado from the intelligence 7gmittee.!u■ what are you hoping to hear from the company? >> it is okay for a whollyq ownd subsidiary controlled by the ñrp to÷dçó do wha when it is banned inlp china when it jt(uáq chinazv■ calls i opium and won't allow the

digital platforms to broadcast in china.

i heard the chinese government was saying today that our banning of tiktok if that's what we decide to do might create a worry att( investment in united states. toñi destroy their own tech industry and not allowedfá usqr tech industry. ing our i.t. e1xdi] exporting to china the most valuablerc/se1 technology. built the space program from that. sucking out the lowest cost consumer products that we can buyfá at the dollar store and n hypnotizing us with tiktok whicá

the average american spends threeu >> he is right. he■3 alludes to the fact that i know somethingp,■zv■ about this because 1995, 1996,jf e1çó1997,f the things ifs? worked with nan pelosi on, didn't work on that lot back then but one thing i did workxd on is not extending china. why? they kept stealing the technology secrets. here we are in 2023 nothing has changed. >> yeah. bipartisan concern. both trump and biden admini$[rations putr warnings about china stealing intellectual property. senator bennet, youxd mentioned that message from beijing, a bau

would hurtñi investment in the united states and said they would not allow the company to be sold which is something the biden administration had said they wanted. if this doesn't happen and i know you said you support a ban so if a ban is voted upon talk to usáa=uq■ how((mey could happen. how difficult would it be to put that in practice? >>w3 i think the best thing to is to have applei]xd and google1 tiktok off the app store. that's what i asked them to do. that would be at(( upthe çóccp fore saidñi should be easy for us. hugh is right onçó the wto. and we were wrong on so manyw3 other levels.q atw3 the same time doing thatlpk

with nancy@■dpelosi. we were sayingxd qt(here, i was but people saying that china wouldlp liberalize and what the have turn is strengthened the surveillance state in ways that george orwell would not have imagined. exported it all over the world. hoovering back thelpfá data. thee1 consensus that is showingp in theq building isq an importa i think this is the path to turning the page onx$$u$e chaosf trumpism to say there's more for us to do asqi] americans to shof to can create freedom and opportunity5a■ for the country % lead the world in açóq coalitio

with china, but we have a better view of the wayfáó[■ that human can workxd than a state that'sñ cozying up withfá putin. we hav'y a better vision forxd humanity. we can have republicans and democrats standing for that. $&nald trump will becomeñrjfxd■ irrelevance in that political world andxd finally move on and building av please pass along for us, thinking about everybody impacted by the school shooting. we of course like so many peoplr horrified by the fact thatñia5■ wp$igan republican party would try tookñi politicize. put up almost heinous things as we have a denver çcsjz ñi

shooting. so our thoughts and prayers with the people there and withñi you andñi othersxd trying tow3okçó reasonablee1 gun safety legislation passed. >> i so much appreciate that. i used to be the superintendent ofxd denver publicçó schools so see two employees in thew3 scho district shot, to see on two-year anniversary of thee1fá shootin i'll tellçó you. i spent timeokxdt( with youngxd because of that ñijob. we should beok asking ourselves everybody inñi our gener'4=9■ should be asking whene1 it is te for me,i]ñr hearing a youngçó p not what happened ñrqyesterday,t the age of my childrenñi died i colorado, was it a cart( accide? leukemia. was it suicide? was it fentany]/ç

was it guns? that is not the country!.e■ thad kids should belpñr raised in. one of the kids saidlp in the paper today in denver this is not whatt( high school should b like. this ise1 not what high school should be like. it is not their faultt( that hi school is like this. it is our fault that high school is like this. is like this. weñi shouldu

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a judge in delaware said he will decide soont( if dominion' defamation lawsuit against fox news will go to a jury nextqxd ø;9q!ì(lc% both sides were9■ in court argug that the judge should rule that thehat happens.d rule dominion said there'c■f no defee for the falseq claims ofq electn fraud fox news aired following the 2020 election. lawyers for the voting system company have presented internal unions ine1 depositions that sh foxé@■ executives and hosts kne aired themqjfxd anyway. however, foxd covered by the first amendment and asked the judge toñi dismis the case. the lawyers say the network and th# hosts reporting onu allegations fromñie1 people and executives were not directly

involved inñiok airing defamato statements. the judgei] said yesterday they would!jave to agreelp on live o video testimony from witnesses for the jury presentations addingçóçó to prefer liveñi wit. "the washington post"xd reports that murdoch might be compelled to takeçó thexd stand. foxçór that murdoch and paul ryan not be compelled to testifyçó at th trial. the ju4gde signaled that rupert murdoch's role at fox might warrant the testimony but not yet made alp ruling. coming up, live toc manhattn where a jury is weighing potential charges against former president trump. a live report frome1 outside th

district attorney's office when "morning joe" comes right back.

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welcome back. know your valuew3 held their secondóom annual 30/50 summit i abu dhabi, bringing together over 500 women from 50 countries. weñi networked, madeçó connecti and heard from icons including hillary clinton, malala and many, many more. many of our attendees were honoreeslp on our 2021 andq 202 list. today, we want to let you know thatñi nominations for our 2023

list are open now. this is specifically the u.s. list. here to tell us more is chief content officer at forbes, also maggie mcgrath and huma abedin. great to have the team back together again. tell us what we've learned so far about the success of the 50 over 50 list. >>xd i wast( watching the show morning and you see trump and tiktok and all these çóproblems. what's great aboutk!$e 50 over 50 list is these are women who are solving things and taking one of the great untapped resources in çóamerica, which i women who have the matmaturity, 5 to their 50s and they're actually coming up with solutions. we have people actually doing

things that can cure whatr been hearing all morning is ailing us. >> what we learned is women over 50 have arrived and our success is yet to qcome. maggie, tell our viewersñr abou the nominations guidelines, where you can go to nominate someone orñr nominate yourself. what's the requirements? >> women who are based in the united states and who turned 50 any time last year or prior. this means your birth date must be 1972 or earlier. beyond that, we are looking for women#=

go to forbes.com today. >> lphuma, we got the chance to honor so many of our 50 over 50 listçóñi makers at the summit ja month ago in abu dhabi. it was such an incredible event. i think it exceeded all of our expectations and hopes. is there a momentñi that moved u the most? >> for me, it was sitting in that desert at the end of añi fó day of conference and sitting on the carpets andçó just talking

women, who literally were in a room and watchedçó billie jean king, who madeñi history 50 yea, hillary clinton who made history 15çó years ago, mistí copeland o made history six years ago/ó it was such ançó example that there's always space for progress and taking ownership of your powerçó and you can beçóe1e and also be ambitious. it was talking about narratives and understanding things we didn't ñiknow. one of the funniest things for me was an american turning to a local women and saying were you allowed to come here alone? and shuóñi says, well, i'm here alone. she said are you able to drive here? she says i've beençó driving sie 18. it's about sometimes uncomfortable conversations, but that's thet( magic sauce.

>> same question, randall. >> joe and i got to sit backstage while you were doing that incredible iconic panel. we were kind of at the kids' table. it was a real privilege to be there. it was inspiring. you see olena zelenska and how can you not be inspired. you learn so much. there was so much wisdomok ther. joe and i, neither of us have ever been accused of not talking that much. to sit around for three days and just be quiet and listen wasc really powerful. i want to thank all three of you for that privilege. >> one of my favorite moments was the town hall that we did on march 9th

our international women's day programming wasxs.■ packed we didn't have much time for audience questions. so we brought back some of our best speakers and had a really candid conversation about gender based micro aggressions at work, overcoming anxiety and public speaking and embracing a desire to earn money.d-0a%q i foundñi a promo thatçó i shotn i was working,z local news and kind of melded it with me today. take a look. >> for many,@ugq morning is the only chance you have to get a quick dose of what's going on before you head out the door and get all caught up in your job, your kids or justúg?uñ the day.

so now we're on earlier to bring you much more news, traffic and weather. our day begins in the middle of the night, so by theçó morning we're ready to bring you what you need to do to get your day started. >> and now, 30ñr years later on "morning joe." >> almost 30çóçó years later. i did not see this coming atñi all.ñr i'm looking at my younger self. i was nine months pregnant. i was so scared. what do you think the take-away for youngerxd women at this ewg was? >> you didn'tñi look like you we faking it until you make it, but sometimes you have to. you have to do the thing that terrifies you, but you might be really good at it. >> we're getting ready for our next 30/50 summit. of course,ñiçó nominations are

for the 50 over 50 list. thank you all. you want to nominate a woman for the next u.s. 5vá over 50 w3lis go to forbes.com and get in yes! april 5th. rated pg. science proves quality sleep is vital to your mental, emotional, and physical health.

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there was no violation ató[ all. that is what happened. we have a campaign finance issue. he did everything the right way. he did nothing wrong. everything is fair game. [indiscernible]

>> that doesn't makeñi sense, tt a lawyer took out a homequity loan with his own money, paid somebody he didn't 5a■xdxdknow. >> there's no crime here. it doesn't make sense. >> that's right, it doesn't.

what's the latest? >> reporter: as you said, the grand jury is expected, with "expected" being the operative word, tonb■ resume their work ty afterw3 that mysterious delay now this grand jury's decision is just part of the growingñr legal challenges being faced by this former president. grand jurors set to convene in new york city today with the

fate of donald trump in their hands. after a surprising decisq>t wednesday to keep the grand jurors home, manhattan d.a. alvin bragg is expectinghj reconvene the injure. mr. trump taunting bragg on system suggesting no charges would be brought against him. the grand jury has been meeting for nearly two months, hearing testimony from michael cohen, "0mçó paid $130,000 in 2016 to y daniels' silence, alleging mr. trump eventually paid him back. the formerok president has deni any wrongdoing. >> i have facts, i have truth. >> reporter: while hush money7s payments are not illegal, the d.a. could potentially charge mr. trump with falsifying business records. how does an indictment usually play out? the prosecution gathersñi the grand jury to read the possible

charges. then theñi jurors vote. if 12 vote in favor, prosecutors draw up an indictment and the foreperson signs it.q the indictment is filed under seal, meaning the public doesn't see itçó at first. at th'4e point, prosecutors contact defense attorneys to coordinate a time for the defendant to voluntarily surrender and the judge makes the indictment public. another legal setback for mr. trumpe1 todayñr in the special counsel's classified documented investigation. a judge ruled last friday in secret that there was enough evidence that mr. trump may have committed crimes through his lawyers in that case to create an exception to his attorney/client privilege, meaning, one of hisw3 lawyers, evan cork ran can be forced to testify and hand over evidence.

>> wow. an animal, really.xd >> okay. >> joe, wow. >> he's just going full nazi here, full fascist. you're doing the whole jewish international banker thing and dehumanizing him as an animal, calling him an animal. >> that's ugly. >>ñi that's really ugly. it's interesting to seefá what' happening with bragg. he hasn't taken the bait. trump said what he said2ol sunday. bragg said nothing aboutñi it

despite the fact trump knew he was lying. we don't know what's going to happen here. if the grand jury recommends it, the grand jury recommends it. if they don't, they don't. there's no winning or losing, cheering or booing, at least from where we sit. the law is the law is the law. so follow the law. that's something this guy's never been able to do. >> no. alvin bragg continues his workçr despite the fact he's now being called a soros funded animal, to quote former president trump. egal former president trump. ⌜

not only is it an ugly attack that we heard today from trump, but in general he isçó an information pollutant. we know that. we don't expect most rational people to predict their own arrest. even for trump, that was a lot. >> it was a fund-raising scam we know now. >> he raised money off it. he tried to look like he's in control of the situation, where if he's indicted, he'll be out of control. i do think it has its effect this week. you canok watch tv news. basically all kinds of news

outlets responded to some degree. if you unlearn that pollutant, we're still at a very normal part of the process where the grand jury meets. we're in the ninth inning. this is still the normal course. >> the pollutant side of the story is very interesting. does the d.a.'s office of manhattan absorb any of the pollution? does the justice department, does the special counsel hear any of that? of course they hear it, but do they consider it at all as they pursue these cases? >>çó it's a great question. they say they don't. then we alllp live in the real world. people know donald trump has seemingly gotten away with other scrapes with the law in differentr though there's overwhelming evidence. i know mr. bragg had to put out

afáñ)h!ulletin about the safety everyone who works in his office. usually that's because you're dealing with "el chapo" or someone. i think we have to look at the fact that a former president who's running for path, that is so striking. that tells you something. if that stuff goes too far, it becomes another count. if you're trying to tamper and intimidate witnesses, et cetera. every time we've looked at this recently when trump was president,çó he did have contro of the federal government. he did have rules that benefit every president thatok said you can't indict at the federal level. there is no help for him here. there is no back ñidoor. there is no federal pardon. even if a different republican won the white house back, which could happen, this isokñi a loc jurisdiction. there is no backup plan. that's why he seems to be moving

even more scared. >> let me ask you about the d.c. circuit and the documents case. i have never seen a court saying, all right, briefs in by midnight, response 6:00 a.m. man, youfá talk about a rocket sled of a schedule, that was crazy. can you explain why they did that? secondly, can you tell our viewers how unusual it is for the attorney/client privilegeçóo be pierced and for them to do that and basically having a federal judge say it is, quote, rime was udge say it is, quote, committed? >> that's a huge story. it is very rare to pierce óuáorney/client privile. to put it in context, you could literally be having private conversations with someone accused of or about to becon

convicted of murder, that doesn't pierce the attorney/client privilege. if there is credible evidence, smoking gun, something written, eyewitness ñitestimony, we're talking about something tó1+ really makes a judge quite strong in the belief that there likely was an ongoing crime. that means that this lawyer isñ committing some sort of ongoing crime, either on behalf of the clientq orw3 inñi someok other t might touch the client but not lead to the client's indictment. then you have this rocket fast briefing schedule, because i think the judge has basically had it. he's saying we're not messing around, i've seen enough, we're going to go forward, get that evidence. all of this is very bad for

potentially anyone he might have beene1 tryingw3 to commit ai] c with in the classified documents evidence. >> evan cork ran was seenw3 walking into a courthouse in washington, d.c. we had some chatter earlier in the show they do have the ability to think about the supreme court here might be leaning against. what is your analysis of what they could or should do? >> in the classified documents case? >> yes. >> i think any time you haveñi attorney/client privilege you always look to whether appeals courts are going to be thinking about this as a case they might take. the appeals courts don't takeñi most cases. every time someone says we're going to appeal, you have the right to ask for it, you don't usually get it. any time they do that here they

m ju the high court wants to review this. because it does involve privilege and a president, they looks very bad. only donald trump knows if he said something çólike, hey lie to the federal government. that's a crime. there is nothing in the law or the rules that say yj■ can't charge añi formerq president fo current crime. >> ari melber, thank you very much. we'll be watching "the beat" weeknights at 6:00 p.m. eastern. >> so much to talk about. >> you're doing great work. the federal reserve has extended its fight against inflation by raising itsñr key interest rate by another quarter percentage point, the ninth consecutive rate hike, bringing it to the highest level since 2007. the move sent stocks into a tailspin yesterday,ok finishing

the day down more than 1.5%. policy makers are trying to ease fears that higher borrowing rates may worsen the turmoil gripping the nationçó's banks. fed chair powellñi hinted yesterday there could be more rateçó likesñi toçóçóñrñi come. >> people say how can you do that with the instability of th( banking system. it looks like the fed's approach, they are not going to let inflation sneak up on them again. >> reporter: that's the point. this is a move that wasfá prett much widely expected byñi the f. financial markets for the most part had already priced in that kind of quarterçó percentage pot

that mika mentioned. we did some context on what the fed could doñr later on from ja powell. he told reporters that financial conditions appear to have tightened. so the question is now by how much and how long it lasts. he also added if those conditions worsened for the economy, it could factor into any future rate decision. for what it's worth, markets seem convinced the fed will ■ by the end of the year, which is kind of at odds with the central bank's current messaging. regardless, the fed isr really along when it comes to raising interest rates as viewed by some in the banking crisis. it's not really being swayed by it. in the last 24çó hours the cent philippines, switzerland, the u.k., they have all joined the it kind of signals that global central banks still think that

inflation is the bigger threat. >> interesting. dom, bring us up to date on the crypto currency troubles that some celebrities are having? >> so the crypto currency side of things is going to be interesting here. what we are seeing right now is that regulators are targeting some of these celebrities andçó influencers. it's just sad behavior in the overall industry. this is the sec unveiling fraud and security charges while also detailing violations by celebrity enforcers of the cryptoñi assets. they include people like lindsey lohan, jake paul amongst others. these allegations are that some engaged in trade manipulation of those assets and the celebrityç

endorsers of those assets didn't disclose their compensation tied to endorsing those products. most of these celebrity endorsers are sett have settled sec without any admission of guilt. coming up,k%)ápr'ian president volodymyr zelenskyy is calling on american businesses to beginçó investing in the country's reconstruction even before the war is over. the head of the national association of manufacturersrfi% talks about the push to build new partnerships across europe. some of the other stories making headlines this morning, including an alarming drop in the american xdiq. íí and later steve kornacki will break down march madness. trelegy for copd. ♪ birds flyin' high, you know how i feel. ♪ ♪ breeze driftin' on... ♪

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ñ÷mñ two tornados touched down n southern california yesterday, causing tens of millions of dollars worth of okdamage. miguel almaguer has the latest. >> reporter: this was the jaw dropping sight in southern-9■ california, a tornado carving through the streets just a few milesñr outside downtown los angeles, a twister so powerful »■ shredded roofs and toreñr apt metal fencing. the powerxd of the storm'sñiñr on fullñiñr display. this frightening scene playing out at a6z■ local school. watch again as a teacher is actuallyñr sucked out of a classroom. >> all of a sudden they open the door a little bit and we see a gust of wind starting to build up. then itw3 got faster and faster >> reporter: tornados are rarely seen in the golden state, but

incredibly this was the second twister to hit the region in 24 hours. hours. uesday, not far from sa barbara, this tornado devastated a mobile home park. thankfully, no serious injinjur. >> it's nothing i've everñrçó h before in my life. >> the weather in california has been just brutal over the past months. also in california, employees in the los angeles school district will return to

>> let's bring in jay timmons right now. as you look to ukraine, i think

we're talking hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars in damage that's !9■ caused by russia for no reason. american businesses stand behind ukraine, stand behind thosep[ countries and those believe in democracy and freedom. >> talk to us about where that

we don't know what negotiations are going to look likeçó when w eventually get to a peace treaty. butñiñi we do know that theñi ukrainians have to feel like they are going to be in a better position after this war is over than when it began and whether that's euñi ñimembership, wheth

that'sxd añrñum%■ñr nato memberh or a massivefá rebuildingçó eff that theñi2wmrld comes together better than it was before this barbaric war began. president zelenskyy having those assurances are critical to bringing peace toçó that region aren't they? >> i believe so. american business is standing up. when russia invaded, three days later the board of directors did a resolution condemning russia, calling for sanctions. we have been with the industrial league in ukraine, we've been with the government of ukraine since that time talking about how we cannot only invest after the war, but possibly invest now, bringing u.s. investmentçó into the ñicountry.

president zelenskyy spoke directly to the americanoke1 business community. his call was very clear. one thing that is heartening is to see ukrainians hear in poland who are absolutely dedicated to rebuilding their country, they know what has beent( sacrifices they know the losses. tomorrow i'll be visiting a school that ups has helped set up to help address the educational needs of refugees from ukraine. we're seeing westinghouse provide energy alternatives to ukraine so they're no longer dependent on russia. we'rejf seeing microsoftñ%uju)q thousands of laptops to students who didn't have access to them. the american business community is going to continue to pull together to support ukraine in its effort to defeat this totalitarian regime. >> the president andñi ceo of t national association of manufacturers, jay timmons,

thank you. he mentioned westinghouse and microsoft. a lot of american companies have been on from the onset of the war. companies were gettingçó in the and wanted to be afá part of it >> came in early, came in in the opening days of the war. >> and are still there now. still ahead, an update on gwyneth paltrow's lqwu%q■ against her in a ski crash in utah. we'll tell you what doctors had to say on tjei■stand yesterday. moderate to severe eczema still disrupts my skin. despite treatment

it disrupts my skin with itch. it disrupts my skin with rash. but now, i can disrupt eczema with rinvoq. rinvoq is not a steroid, topical, or injection. it's one pill, once a day. many taking rinvoq saw clear or almost-clear skin while some saw up to 100% clear skin. and, they felt dramatic and fast itch relief some as early as 2 days. that's rinvoq relief. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal, cancers including lymphoma and skin cancer, death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least one heart disease risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq, as serious reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. disrupt the itch and rash of eczema. talk to your doctor about rinvoq. learn how abbvie can help you save. hi, i'm john and i'm from dallas, texas. my wife's name is joy. we've been married 45 years.

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power e*trade's easy-to-use tools like dynamic charting and risk-reward analysis help make trading feel effortless and its customizable scans with social sentiment help you find and unlock opportunities in the market with powerful, easy-to-use tools power e*trade makes complex trading easier react to fast-moving markets with dynamic charting and a futures ladder that lets you place, flatten, or reverse orders so you won't miss an opportunity mika, you know what that is? >> what is that? >> that's the land of the

duttons. >> montana. >> big sky montana. willie, do we have any idea at all when yellowstone is coming back? because they're supposedr the second season of season 5. it was originally going to be in the summer. i don't even know if they've started filming yet. >> i have a confession. i've never seen "yellowstone."ñq i'vewhoever seen whatever the other ones are. >> i have seen yellowstone. >> not a second of any of them. >> oh my lord. >> you wouldn't believe the holes in my tv viewing, massivei gaping holes. >> you need a sunday sitdown with kevin costner. and the woman who played beth çó

dutton. that happensç$■sometimes. >> so, willie, what order should we tell him to watch it? >> yellowstone. >> you want him to start with yellowstone? you really do. you need to seeñrw3w3 yellowsto. binge it. it's incredible. then go to 1883. tim mcgraw and faith hill, whoa, awesome. i love them. they werexd awesome. do i have to evenñi say harriso ford? oh my god. come on. helen mirren.e1 she's extraordinary. >> incredible.

>> barnicle andçó i kind of ble 1923 for you about spencer. >> don't do that. >> i hearçó nothing but good things. i will watch them. the volume of content is just overwhelming. everybody tells you you've got the watch this and you've got to watch that. i just do the opposite. it's too much. i watch yankees spring training for a few minutes or the sec network. >> we have five new ideas for your sunday sitdowns after watching them. >> you can watch yellowstone at the same timeq you watch the pal finebaum show. ⌝yrñ you can do it too. >> i love paul. >> should we ask lemire? >> i don't want to ñiask. >> lemire, have you watched

1883? have you watched 1923? have you watched yellowstone? >> the answer is xdno. i have to go to bed very early. but i wanted to point out another show that weçó do watch. succession is back this weekend. >> can't wait. >> that show i do watch. >> you have just checked all thó boxes there.$-+a >> the shows have so manyñi parallels.

>> i don't know. a lot of xdweekends, early in t morning, late at night. i'm telling you, you start 1883 or 1923 and you can't stop it. yellowstone, i had a lot of people say noçó it's too soap opera-ish kind of like dallas. is thato watching it? this is the last thing i'm going to say about yellowstone. we have a lot of news ahe i will tell you this, though, willie. kevin costner will foreverçó be the guy atçó fenway parkçó in f of dreams. that will forever be kevin costner in my heart. it's just one of my favorite movies ever.

i just love that movie so much. yet, yellowstone, i don't know if i'm ever going to be able to look at kevin costner again without saying there's john dutton. he's awesome. ixd never saw it coming. he's awesome. you've got to w3watch. >> okay.ñi he's done with you. >> i've never watched yellowstone, but i have seen succession. >> just stop. >> upstairs downstairs. >> funny. >> i bet you he's(wrtcxe■ all the upstairs downstairs and i bet you he's goti]i]t( "downton" on blueray. twoçó doctors took the stan yesterday in q

ski collisionok trial yesterday documenting the condition of the man suing the actress for a 2016 accident at a utah ski resort. lawyers for 76-year-old terry sanderson called on medical experts to persuadeñi jurors th collision left their client with life altering injuries. the retirñid optometrist claimy the accident left him with physical injuries and brain damage. paltrow is expected to testify tomorrow. her children areko■ expected to take the stand at some point, according to paltrow's attorney. bothxd parties blame the other r thexd collision and claim they were crashed into from behind. utah law stipulates that whoever is downhill has the right-of-waó when skiing or snowboarding. we'll follow that. a new study is showing that -- >> by the way, i do blame this next story on me being on

television for 20 years. >> no. actually you can blame it on something else. >> a new study is showing that for the first time in decadesñr americans' iq scores are dropping. northwestern university and the university of oregon published a study that looked at iq test scores from 2006 to 2018. the study revealed the greatest drop among 18 to 22-year-olds who have less education. res]á doesn't explain why scores are dropping. researchers have uncovered new information about the family history and health of one of the world's greatest composers. beethoven died in 1826. before his death he made it known that it was his wish that his ailments be studied, including hearing loss and

gastrointestinal problems. dnaçó taken from preserved lock of his hair showed a number of significant genetic risk factors for liver disease and evidence of infections with the hepatitis b virus likelyxdw3lpxd contribu his death. ■ lemire is going to tell us why he'sçó never eaten country frie steak. also steve kornacki standingñi at the big board with a look at the sweet 16 matchups. "morning joe."

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a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking jardiance and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, ketoacidosis or an allergic reaction, and don't take it if you're on dialysis. taking jardiance with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. a once-daily pill that goes beyond lowering a1c? we're on it. we're on it. we're on it with jardiance. ask your doctor about jardiance. my relationship with my credit cards wasn't good. i got into debt in college, and no matter how much i paid, it followed me everywhere. the high interest... i felt trapped. debt! debt! debt! debt! so i broke up with my credit card debt and consolidated it into a low rate personal loan from sofi. i finally feel like a grown-up. break up with bad credit card debt.

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into round two. >> arkansas by two. expected to miss here.ñri] he tried to miss xdit. off the bank. arkansasg tim izzo takes michigan state back to the sweet 16. oyd. to the sweet 16. five secondsbkñileft. boyd ñrdrives.çó boyd! and theñi owls win it! > of the best moments from ançó absolutelyjf incredible fi two rounds of the men'sçó ncaa basketball tournament. tonight the action the first four games of the sweet 16, and our man steve

kornacki is at the big board with a preview. in the commercial break, i think you and i just ran through the entire bracket.r that princeton team,c if they beat purdue they can beat creightonçó and+■xd who knows w else. >> maybe a generationñi or so wn princeton@vúuld cause trouble for xdp,■teams. i sqáiculous shot clock offense. they play a lot faster right fo. çátkjf absolutely annihilated missouri in the second round. you're right, that is a winnable game for them against creighton. itñi is not impossible that princeton could go further in this tournament as a 15 seed. hey, they call it march madness, look at the sweet 16 we're left with, noçó duke,ñixd no north carolina, no kansas, no kentucky. it's the first time sincee1 198 that none of those hcosñi madelr through to the sweet 16. you have representatives of 11 different ñiconferences. 's the mostjfko■ conferences to

teams in the sweetçóe1 16, 1990 2011. your standing. y houston still standing. qok four, the final four will be in houston this year. a couple of other big picture trends, we say it's been cinderella's ball so far. 13 of the 32 games that were played in thexd first and secon round, the lower seeded team won. more than 40% of the game were byfá seeding considered upsets this tournament. down goes the champ again, kansas defending national(#v ok, arkansas takes. the big ten purdue, the cp]a%=9■ on lose to a number 16. they weren't the only big ten o struggle. o struggle. you sa»zpá in michigan state's victory. the only one of the eight big

ten teams that made this tournament that is still standing, and michigan state is a seven seed. we mentioned princeton asi]xd wp that win over missouri, that was the biggest margin of victory ever fort( a number 15 seed in e tournament. they are just the fourth 15 ever to reach this round. and if your bracket'sñi a mess, here's a little consolation, don't feel too bad. more than 20r were submitted through espn, anf all of them have gone bust by the 25thñrok game of the tourna, the 25th gameñi was fairlyçó dickinson knocking off purdue. we mentioned princeton, the ultimate cinderella story, fourth time that a 15 has made it to the sweetç16. last year st.r three that have gone before, last year st. peters did get at win in the sweeps stake. got to the elite 8, got annihilated by california. could princeton one-up st. peters. thaélt the story line, we're what dolp the odds #ñhñ in las

vegas? they say that alabama remains the favorite to win the tournament at 3 to 1. houston the other one seed at 4 to 1 and ucla, uconrj■ texas, w talk about creighton, but how about that, ifok the princeton

carolina, they are the defending champs. they are t(undefeated. they are going to be playing in south carolina for a chance to get back to the final four, but always lurking there on the women's side too, the university of connecticut, could they be on a collision course, something we have steve kornacki, a great break breakdown. joe, on thstlen's side alabama is the best team in the tournament. houston's a littlee1xd banged u. theirçó best player is qinjured. how are you feeling about the tide? >> you're right, houston's pretty much the best team that's

and ie1 certainly hope that as they get through this tournament, i'mñi a lot more concernedxa the playersxd on that team than whether theyjf win it or not, a of this process, justice is served. >> yeah,e1 certainly a shadow or the alabama entry there, but otherwise it has beenw3 such a n first two rounds for both stúzurnaments, rare ñiupsets as steve said on ther and the men'%gñ side feels wide open. look,fá xducla and uconn are tw teams i'veeo:uu my eyes on. sort of middle !íhj$ as the okpr i th$@k we're going to havexd se really good games. >> ucla are looks great.

>> coming up at the top of the hour, the chieft(çói] executivek expected to testify beforee1 congress for the first time to argue against the ban of the app and to reassure americans their data is safe, butq is it? msnbc will have live coverage. yasmin vossoughian picks things up after a quick final break.e1 ♪♪ kin with itch. it disrupts my skin with rash. but now, i can disrupt eczema with rinvoq. rinvoq is not a steroid, topical, or injection. it's one pill, once a day. many taking rinvoq saw clear or almost-clear skin while some saw up to 100% clear skin. and, they felt dramatic and fast itch relief some as early as 2 days. that's rinvoq relief. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal, cancers including lymphoma and skin cancer, death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least one heart disease

risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq, as serious reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. disrupt the itch and rash of eczema. talk to your doctor about rinvoq. learn how abbvie can help you save. ♪ ♪ get directv with a two year price guarantee. ooh, we're firing up the chewy app. can't say no to these prices! hmm, clumping litter? resounding yes! salmon paté? love that for me! essentials?

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