hey,lp everybody, it's goodo seefvñyou.w3 it is8bi good morning to you all. i'm yasmin vossoughian. right now the battle over tiktok atfá center stage on capitol hi. any moment now the ceo of tiktok is going to testify before the house energy and commerce committee facing growing callsl including from president biden to befáq restricted or evençó b outrighte1 in the united statesd lawmakers saying the chinese government can use the appñrñiq access data from users who now log on for an average of 90 minutes a day. in fact,ñr tiktok's ceo isñrxd expected to testify that the app now boasts a whopping 150 million users in the united xd states, nearly half thet( populationjf of this country. which is a top u.s. securitye1x adviser. >> 1/6 of american youth say they're constantly on tiktok. that's a loaded gun. >> the big question even if

lawmakers doq ban tiktok, how d you go about unplugging something that is already so engrained in ourxdi] culture. we've got a lot going on, we are follow duop&e legaltásq ¤&i■ formerj8%uju)qq't trump. we are back onñiñr indictment w in lowerñi manhattan as the gra jury is expected to reconvene today afterñi mysteriouslyi] be told to stay home yesterday. however, we'j8q just learning ì(lc% evidence in another matter, not the stormy daniels hush money case. this is thet( manhattanjf d.a. arrivingt(t( just thisq morning >> and the major legal blowú trump was just dealt,çó why tha could end with his own lawyer being forced to testify against him. andxd shock and horror in colorado.i] a teenagee1 shooter found dead overnight hours after opening fire on two high school administratorsfá in denver leavg

parentslp fearingt( the worst. >> as parents shouldn't have to be sitting there at home wondering if our babies are going toe1q come homefá to usi] day. >> the concerning details about the fáshooter's backgrou ï1u 9 being patted down every single morning. we want to begin, though, on indictment watch in lowerñr manhattan. gabe gutierrez outside the d.a.'s office in lower manhattan,xd vaughn hillyard outside mar-a-lago in west palm beach, florida, harry litman, former deputy assistant attorney general during the clinton administration and professor ofr constitutional law atfá ucla is with us as well. gabe, start us off if you i]wil just in the last couple of minutes thisq breaking, some clarification on the reconvenin■ ofe1 thisy1 grand jury. talk us through it. >> yasmin, good morning.+■q this entire grand jury process is shroudedjfp,■ in secrecy, an timing remains fluent.e1 as he mentioned resources

familiarhw)háhe matter tell nbc news that grand jurors will noo t+hu)s& be considering another c, that meanslp that we expect mony could be the first day, the next day where we could learn about either another potential witness or azv■ possible indictment. so again, at this point, thin case isçóxd effectivelytxñpause. the alleged hush money payments to stormy daniels. the grand jury has beene1 meeti you'll recall yesterday they were told notxd to come in. we were told they were ont( standby for today.ñi again, just within the past few moments, we're learning with three sources familiar with the matter that they will meet today but willlp be considering a separate matter, a separate case. it is not unusual forñr grand juriesq to consider multiple cases at one time, but certainly, zv■yasmin, this is bg viewed as a delay in the case.

prior to this latest news earlier this morning, former president trump ouá his social media platform was once again attacking the manhattan d.a.i] saying he should drop the case. yasmin. >> all right, harry, if you will dissect this for us, i was reading through youró[■ twitter threadi] yesterday as tofálpfá 6 of delay, possibly the grand jury reconvening come monday on the trump case. last we knew, right,u it's true that granijuries sometimes re#r different cases, but that generally -- we're talking about a special grand jury hq+er+pásr', that's been going on. this case, this case, this cu/e%

and is a foot from thei] finish line,fá why they would be switching directi.

that is the only wayçó you can y to make something good out of a potential indictment if you're donald trump who would be facing headwindslpxd out of this. not only having to go for an arraignment in new york city, but having to face a criminal proceeding here. that is why they are trying to get out ahead of p,■it, essentiy putting pressure on other republicans like ron desantis to corral around him in xddefense, but gabe mentioned one particular social media postq from this morning, just one of a

flurry. hep,■ called -- i just want to quote directly from donald t( trump.ñs■ he called alvin bragg, a, quoteu soros-backede1xú!nimal who just ypi are hurt. he is making himself and this political movement around him the martyrs in this. ñquote, everybody knows i'm 100% innocent incu is he ready to if he were? yesbp but that is not the situation that they are really hopingxd for at this point, ando thet( further thisfá isi]i] del any up:6pp÷ or down from the gr jury is onlyt( good news for donald trump at this point, >> harry, with that, while all kp5!%m we're learning the special counsel leading this investigation showed significant evidence, i want to read thislp directly thatq trump committed iv

own attorney, right in that case, evan corcoran could now be compelled to testify. trump's attorneys are appealing this ruling, but how significant, harry, of a development is okthis?!u■g >> i would say huge, yasmin. so think about this, this is the time when they actually submitted a false declaration in response to a subpoena. we had had something likeq 20 months of bobbing and weaving until then, but this is the crystal moment where they say we've done a diligent search and we've done everything, and it was a lie and a really serious lie. it'sñi at theçó core of an obstruction 0l■investigation. and these are communications qqg you would very rarely beu

on him.ñi thecuq going to want very specificxd answers to very specific questions about the role the chinese government has as it relates to tiktok's parent company bite dance p &hulqá"ti r' his opening stat prepared to say,ko■ 9+oáe, i steadfastly believe that all (qq' raised have solutions.+■

ban's appropriate whenñi there e ■ d an an alternative. we do believe a ban!u■ hurts american small businesses,ñrokñ silences the voices of 150 americans and reduces competition in'# complicated market. his argument is that we can have a conversation about how we collect our data and how wefá store th data, but an outright ban is going to be damaging, and not just to their company but to all of these americans that use the platform on a day-to-dd■ basis. >> let's pick up there if we can, right? it's obvious the casñxd that th tiktok ceo is building here.ñrok the 150 million or so american users that he says tiktok has right about now. theçó chair of the committee actually holding this hearing ÷ essentiallyçó when youçó celebr the 150 million american users ■ the urgency for congress to act.

that is 150 million americans that ccp canw3 collect sensitiv information on how much ofw3 aq threat do you think tiktok is right now when it comes to national security and userko■fá data? >> well,ñi the biggest threat would be the potential to manipulate the feed that goes into ther youngsters, and we justw3 don't% knowxd the degree to whichh(0at threat is modestt( or serious. that'sx call by congress to think about ways to balance declassifying sd we know more of the level of that threat. but if youñi just take a step back, yasmin, we went through a

theçó military and intelligence theçaid thisxd is a threat.ence (

two years ago i bd](sq the ceo ofe1ok tiktok. today we are more thanlp a billn today we are more thanlp a billn monthly active users arounde1xú world,ñi including overr million in the united states. our app is a place wh can be creative and curious and where close to 5 million american businesses, mostly small businesses,hgg to find new customers and to fuel their growth. now, as tiktokxd has grown, we' tried to learn thet( lessons of compani[3÷ that have come befor us, especially when itñv=be7ñ t the safety oflp xdteenagers. while the vastq majority of people on tiktok are over 18, one of our fastest growing demographics are people over 35. we spent a lot of time adopting measures to protect teenagers. many of th'sk measures are first

for the social media industry. we forbid direct messa]; people under 16, and we$ 60 minute watch time byi] defau for tho%-■ under 18. we have a suite ofw3 family pairing tools soñi parents can participate in their teen's that are right for their family. we wantw3 tiktok to be@pt place where teenagers can come to learn, which is why weçóxd rece launched a feed that exclusively features educational videos about s.t.e.m. s.t.e.m. videos already haveçó q%-q=-1ñ and i think ti inspiring a new generation to discover a passion fore1lp math science. i would also like to talk about national security concerns that you have raised that we take very,çó very seriously. ewry,çó very seriously. misconceptionsçó aboute1t( byte of which we are ae1 subsidiary. bytedax#c is not owned or contro,&d by the chinese

government. it's a private company, xd60% o the companyxd is owned by globa institutional investors. 20% is owned by the founder and 20% owned by employees around the world. bytedance has five board s:vjt three of them are american. now, tiktok itself is not still, we have heard important concerns about the potential for unwanted foreignt( access to u.i data, and potential manipulatio1 of the tiktok u.s. ecosystem. our approach has never been to dismiss or trivialize any of these concerns. we have addressede1 them with rl action. now, that's what we've been doing for the last two years, building whatñi amounts to a firewall, protected u.s. user data from unauthorized foreignwp access. the bottom line is this, american data stored on american

soil by an americant( company overseen by american personnel. we call this initiativer texas.xdfá that's wherefá oracle is xd headquartered. today u.s.ñilp tiktok data is sd by default infá oracler only vetted personnel operating in a new company called tiktok u.s. data security can control access to this data.çó now, additionally, we have plans for this company to report to an independent american board with strong security credentials.jf now, there's still some work to do. we have legacy u.s. data sitting when that is done, all protected u.s. data will be under the protection of u.s. law and under the control of the r security team. thisñi eliminates the concern tt some of you haveq share with me that tiktok user data can be subject toq chinese law.

this goes further, by thee1çó w than what any otherxdñi company our industry have fádone. we also provide unprecedented transparency andxd security for the tiktok app andlmp &h(lc% recommendation w3engine. third partyq validators likeñi oracle and others will reviewlp and validate our source code and algorithms. this will help ñiensure thet(t%% integrity of the code that powers what americans see on our app. we will further providefá acc'+ to researcherslpe1 which helps study and monitorlp our content ecosystem. we believe we are the only --lp the only company that offers this level of transparency. trust i+d azo

ownership is not at the core of to you and to all our users.e1 number one, we willfá keep safe, particularly for teenagers as a topq priority fori] us. number two, we will firewall number two, we will firewall protect u.s. foreignñ1 access. number three, tiktok will remain a place for free expression and will not be manipulatedçó by an governmentlñá and fourth,xdxd w be transparent, and we will give access to third-party independentr accountable for our commitment'■ i'll be grateful?;■ foruf any feedback that you have and i look forward to anyrdquestions. thank you very much. as you know, the testimonyz

that you are about toe1ñgive is subject to title 18 -- >> we are taking a listen to q tiktok's@!ho shou chewúvpthfá h opening statement. the conversation about whether the u.s. willlp subsequently ba tiktok, making the case there 4 here in the united states. 4 and the guard rails tiktok wants to put in place to make sure ñ ban does not go xdthrough. i want to bring back anearbyçóf chop ra. if you will, weigh in on what we've heardok so far from shoux chew there. >> i heard three things, one, and this is critical, they're going to open up their ñi algorithms. that's thelp competitive advante tiktok has in thexd current rac for youthengagement. that statement abouti] opening the algorithm for review is an interesting statemen,?s÷ toq q observe.p,■ that's one. two, the clear distinction here

is we don't have a rules of the road for the entire tech t(q industry. we don'tç($ave a5a■ privacyé@■ framework. we don't have añr data portabily privacy framework. those are mom and apple pie statements that congress needs to take seriously. the hard part is the firewall. tható[■ is hard to trust when w have insiders, whistle-blowers at tiktok highlighting the following of journalists and others in terms offá data leak. al thal( comes out, while we agree we need the momt(ñi and apple p policy agreement.i]i] remember, final comment, they'rd ñ to something unique. they are a foreign@hfs(any that acquired a u.s. asset. they were supposed to get a clean bill ofq health from a negotiation is the opportunity to unwind this acquisition. that's what makes it differentç

as we talk about e1this, one of the conversations that have come up are the political implications of a?;■ possible on tiktok.xdjf the politician saying you're going to lose everyçóçó voter u 35 for forever. so many tiktok users young naive if we thought anything other. there is no doubt that particularly progressive politicians who have a very specific connection to young voters utilize tiktoknb■ on afáy i uz these voters, and weñr sawy of these tiktokt(6z■,i

knees government.xím rñ the que certain that they cannot use your company to promote suchfá messages? >> it is our commitment to this committee and all our users that we willq keep this free from an manipulation by any government.

>> if you can't say 100% ce-)%91ju()qágx that as a no. can you say with 100% certainty that neither bytedance nor tiktoke1 employees can target other americanst( with similar surveillance techniques. >> iu it was an internal investigation. >> yes or no, can youñi do surveillance of otheru >> i saw a commitment that we will not be influenced oni] any government in this commitment. >> doj ise1çó investigating thi

surveillance right now. >> to the american people watching today, hear this,ñi tiktok is a weapon by the chinese communist party t3 spy on you, manipulate what you see and exploit for future generations. a ban is onlyu

>> again, congressman, respectfully, private company willxdñr not disclose --i] >> look, my -- the impression you're giving -- and i know,ñr u know, i can understaneóñi why you're trying to give that impression, is that, you know, you're just performing some kind of public service here, right? i mean, this is benign company that's just performing a public service. maybe you're not -- maybe that's not what you're saying, but i t, right?you're saying, but i myñi concern here is primarily about the privacy issue, the fact thatw3 tiktok is making al

kinds of money by gathering private information aboutçóñi americanse1i] that they don't n for their business purposes and thenñiçó they sell it. i mentioned this legislation that the chair and i have that would minimize dataxd collectio and make it much more difficult ñi and other companies to do that. so if you wantw3 to make some commitments today, i'll ask you to make someçó commitments with regard toçó this legislation, a you know, you're going to tell me, well, the bill isn't passed and so therefore i don't have to do it. you know, you sayñi you're beni, you want to doxdc good things f the public, let me ask you. why not -- what about a commitment thatxd says that you won't sell thee1 data that youi collect? would you commit to that? not selling the data@n youñc3 collect? >> congressa1ñ i believe we don't selli] data to any data broker. >> you don't sell to anyone. >> we don't sell data to datafá

brokers. >> i didn't ask data brokers. ñ qok the data for your own purposes. would you commitozto not sellin data to anyone? >> i actually am in support of some rules. >> i asked you whether the not selling data to anyonexd an just using it for its own purposes internally. >>2i■ can get back to you on th details of that. >> okay. get back to me.xd another thing that'sxd in our bl says that we wouldlpfá prohibit targeting marketing to people under the age of 17.t( e willing to agree to( prohibit targeted marketing to people, americansqñ@tnder the a os( 17?ñi >> congressman, we have actually stricter rules for advertisers in terms of what they can show to usersq under the age of 18. >>çó would youlp be willing to prohibitq targeted marketing to those under 17, that's what's in our ñibill. >> i understand there's some talk and legislation aroundok this, around the country. >> again, i wanted you to make thatfá commitment without the

legislation since you say you're a good company, you want to do good things, why n■ñ >> it's something we can look into and get back tolp you.e9 we also have inq our billlp a ç of heightened protection forjf sensitive data particularly location and health data. would you commit to not gathering or dealing with location orw3 health data unles youjf get affirmativee1t(e1 con@ the t(consumer. under our bill, those are categorized as sensitive. unless the person specifically says i want you to collect that z able to, location and health data. would you commit to that? >> çócongressman in principle, support that, which by the way, we do not collect precise gps data at this point, and i doe1 t believe we collect any health data. >> all right. so would you be willing to make thatñhk commitment from now on won'tçóñr collect location and health data without -- what you're saying at all. >> this is data that's frequently collected byok many

companies. >> i know other companies do it. i don't think they should without affirmative consent. you said you wanted to be a good actor. why not make that commitment to me today. >> we're committed to be very transparent. i don't think what we collect -ó i don't believe what we collect is more thanñr most -- >> my problemçó here is you're trying to give the impression that you're going to moveok awa from beijing and the communist party. you're trying to give the impression thate1 you're a good actor, but the commitments that we would seek to achieve those goals are not being made today. they're juste1 not being made. you're going to continue to gather data. you're going to continue to sell data.ñr you're going to continue to do allq theseñifá things and contio be under the ajes of the communist party through your organization that owns you. thank you, madam chair. >>r gentleman from çótexas, mr. burgess. >> thank you, mr. chew for joining us today.

i think we've heard you say multiple times that tiktok is notç')t chinese lpcompany, that bytedance is not a chinese company, but according to an article in today's wall street journal, quoting here, china's commerce ministry said thursday that a sale ort( divestiture of tiktok will if-0lve çóçóexporti oq(r'ology that has to approved by thew3 chinese@ñ government. think it is in control of tiktoks("dq$tiktok and its software.

not sayinge@sthat, you know, th founders of bytedance are not chinese nor am i saying that we don't make use oft( chinese employees just lik[d many other companies around the world. wefá do,ñifá you know, use expe on some engineering projects. >> according to the ministry spokesperson, itfá would be a divestiture -- >> we arefá takingxdfá a listen to the hearing, the house hearing onñiñi tiktok with the of tiktok, shou lpchew, somei] prettyñrçó intense moments with ranking congressman along with the chair of the fácommittee, congress wonñi kathy mcmorris rogers. i want to bring back anish chopra, essentiallyqçóñi some assurancesñrñ that law make esh want from the ceo that they're notw3 e1getting. can you sell data, i can't answer those types of questionsd answer this types of questionsd forlpñr monitoring and the ceo one point saying i don't like

you categorizinge1 what we're doing asxd spying or thatq we a spying or using this user data in that way, p,■shape,fá or for what are some ofqq%=■3 your rea to what we've been hearing so far with these exchanges? >> well, you cant( clearly see e dividing line between those who butçó really the fundamental het of this is the national security judgment, and that's where you heard the arguments aboutñr=ñ t spying, the role of the chinese communist party, and that's

gabe gutierrez is back with us from outside the fád.a.'s offi#

bragg in this letter that was just released, hefá says that house republicans arexd mountin a, quote, unprecedented inquiry into a local -- into afrñ pendi local prosecution and that their letter camexd only after donald trumpé@■ created at(a5■ falseq expectationq that he would be nd ectationq that he would be lawyers urged you to intervene. the manhattan d.a. firing back at house republicans who have calledv yasmin, this all comes as we're learningq new developments inxd this grand jury lpinvestiwa%■iod three sources familiar with the matter tell nbc news that why the grand jury is expected to meetçó+■ this afternoon around +

the grand jurorsñr will considea !te grand jurorsñr will considea that particular case against formert( president trump effectively paused and the earliest we might know more the strongly worded respo ç■ i justça/s read to you from thed manhattan d.a. to house republicans sayingq essentially stay out of the localq prosecution. >> gabe gutierrez, we thank you for keeping us updated. coming uhp !u■next, a manhu denver ended overnightt( 50 mil from the crime scene. what we're learning about the what we'he learning about the community is coping this morning. plus, we'rex,l notxd in kan anymore as rare tornados, yes, tornados are ripping through california. look at this one teacher evenu

sucked out of the c6iñjroomfáp, these powerful winds. you look at theym■ wild weather that won't let up in the goldenv ack in just 60 seconds.thgoldenv inthey. surprise. [ laughs ] [ horn honks, muffled talking ] -can't hear you, jerry. -sorry. uh, yeah, can we get a system where when someone's bike is in the shop, then we could borrow someone else's? -no! -no! or you can get a quote with america's number-one motorcycle insurer and maybe save some money while you're at it. all in favor of that. [ horn honking ] there's a lot of buttons and knobs in here. (cecily) oh hey seth, you getting ready to roll? all in (seth)of that. [ horyup!nking ] (vo) right now is the best time to roll into verizon and switch. (seth) i got this incredible iphone 14 pro on them. (cecily) oh, love the camera. (seth) also an ipad. that's how i roll. (cecily) ok, wow. (seth) and this apple watch. all three on them. (cecily) nice. (vo) that's right! switch now and get iphone 14 pro on us. there's more! you get apple watch se and ipad. all three on us. that's a value of up to $1700. (seth) and now that i'm rolling with verizon,

i get why more people choose it. (vo) but hurry! this offer won't last long. verizon. police say they found the denverçó school shooting hours after he shot and wounded two school administrators. authorities found 17-year-old austin ñilyle's body near his c 15 miles from the shooting which happened wednesday morning as lyle was beingq patted down for morgan, thanks for covering this for us. given a senseñh

>> reporter: yeah, yasmin, it is a far cry from where things were 24 hours ago. essentially this school is a crime scene following that shooting that wounded twoçóxd one of whichñi ending late last night when authorities confirmed they found the body of 17-year-old austinf lyle about 15 miles away from denver's east high schooljfñit( his car. they would furthercñrxd beyond that. we do hope to learn more from investigators today about a potential motive, about howx$$ut 17-year-old obtained that handgun that is now in we have so many questions about the protocol that wasçó in plac withçó this specific student he at t(denver's east high school.]

those two administrators were conducting a patdown that wasxd routine, part of açó daily route that had to be done before lyle ever entered the school prdoises when those shots rang out. according to the cherry creekxd school district, which is in the greaterxd denver metropolitan area, lyle wasñit( expelled fro aurora areajf high school last year for an incident that they simply said was due toaz't3

simply not stand by on the sidelines and he needed to take action tol >> a lot of highly troubling details there, morgan chesky for us. we thank you. this morning we're also following the aftermath of extreme weather in southernlpws california. two tornados touching down, a rare sight,ñr especj21e■ so clo, by the way, to l.a. ñ yet another monsterñi storm system just not stopping. nbc's miguel almaguer is in california where they're surveying the damagew3. >> reporter: this wasxde1 an ef tornado,çóxdt( the path of destn saidçó to "fçó about a half mil long and 50 yards wide. it's somethingxd we don't see every day nearxd l.a. thisjf is the jaw dropping siten southern california, a tornadoe carving throughlp the streets a few miles outside downtown los d angeles, a twister so powerful

it shreddedfá roofs and tore apt the power of the storm's vortex qfádisplay. >> thise1 frightening scene playing out atñr a local school watch again as a teacher is actually sucked out of a classroom. >> all of a sudden we opened the door a little bit,lp and then w just see like a fwus of wind starting to build up, and then faster. tornados are rarely seen, but incredibly this is the seconde1 twister tolpñr hit the region i hours. on tuesday not far from santa barbara, this tornado devastated a mobile home park. thankfullyfá no serious injurie >> there's nothing i ever heard before in my life. dtqi (uár'esses in this area is certainly going to be in the millions. as you can see behind fáme, thei cleanup is underway. backxd to you.

thank you to nbc miguel almaguer in california. >> coming up next, here we go again. tqw■ fed just raised interest rates for the ninth time since last march to tackle çóinflatio what it all means for t(you. plus, we have our eyes on that hearing withqsv tiktok'se1 lawmakers probe safety concerns and dataq privacy for thexd 150 and dataq privacy for thexd 150 million amer it disrupts my skin with rash. but now, i can disrupt eczema with rinvoq. rinvoq is not a steroid, topical, or injection. it's one pill, once a day. many taking rinvoq saw clear or almost-clear skin while some saw up to 100% clear skin. and, they felt dramatic and fast itch relief some as early as 2 days. that's rinvoq relief. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal,

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all right, herb, we are monitoring the fallout over the fed, the decision to raise interest rates despite the recent chaos in the banking world that we've all been watching over the last few weeks. the fed raised the rates by a quarter of a point and assured the ameïan public that theirxd deposits in the bankingtaeuáz are, quote, unquote safe. this morning the dowi] is aroun

349, so we're looking good right about now, nbc news business and data reporter brian cheung giving me the nod as we're talking about this, right? so it wasn't necessarily a surprise. you and i spoke xdyesterday, th prediction was he was going to raise it by a quarter of a point. there was añi possibility maybee was going to stay where he ó[■w not raise rates at all, but in fact he did. it seemedxd like there was an e in sight. >> yeah. >> right? and it's because we get these ' policymakers for americans that are seeing their credit card rates, theirñ mortgage rates going up, it might sound like a good thing, but we have to remember we're not talkingw3 about theçór reserveok cutting interest rate. that means that you shouldn't expect to see too much alleviation on those high rates anytime soon.

it will likely just kind of go sideways■içó from here when youk at almost 7% mortgage rates on a 30-year fixed. broadly speaking the story is still very much that they're havingx rates towlcñ takqv care of infl. you got to try to raise r@úeml÷ not break any banks while you're doing it, but also lower inflation. >> the senate banking committee calling on the former ceo at the silicon valley bank, signature ç what more do we have on that? >> we heard from senator tim scott, t they said they were not available for that. thexd senatorslpçó essenti they want them to come to capitol hill to testify and explain exactly what happened at that bank. they reached out to the ceo of signature bank, the other bank that failed during that very chaotic weekend, but no response from them yet and we'll see if they want to get more

aggressive. >> we'll be watching that obviously as it plays out. brian cheung, thank you. good to talk to you. we're keeping an eye on that breaking news that we're watching on capitol hill this hour. tiktok ceo shou chew is facing questions about the app as calls for a tiktok ban gained traction in both congress and the white house. with us from the white house is admiral john kirby at the national security council. thank you for joining us on this. we appreciate it. as we're taking a look at the hearings going on capitol hill right now, when it comes to tiktok, i do want to ask you about that specifically. what are the national security risks when it comes to weighing whether or not the white house wants to ban tiktok? especially when you balance that with first amendment rights? >> well, again, i don't want to preview any kind of decision one way or another. there is a cfius review going on

tiktok and we want to respect that independence and not get ahead of it. the president already banned that application off government devices and the concern is data security. and the ability for the chinese in this case to be able to glean specific information and insert themselves from a data perspective into our networks and into -- and into government business. so there is a real maximum security concern there, i won't get ahead of a review ongoing and certainly won't get ahead of this testimony today. we'll be watching this as i'm sure you will. >> but when you have 150 million americans that are using tiktok on a daily basis, sometimes hours at a time, is there a real concern from the white house when it comes to first amendment rights? >> well, again, i won't get ahead of where we are and we always have to balance those rights, first amendment rights,

against national security and operational security and so that's a difficult balance to strike again. i don't want to get ahead of where we are, from a government perspective, on government devices, we're not allowed to use tiktok because there are real national security concerns, particularly when it comes to data, so, again, we're going to have to watch this and see where it goes. >> so let's talk u.s./china relations in general here. the putin/xi meeting as well and what we're hearing this morning, china's claim that a warship illegally entered the south china sea. i know the u.s. military is denying that claim. how would you categorize the u.s./china relationship at this moment? >> this is the most consequential bilateral relationship in the world. the president believes that. that's one of the reasons why he wanted to meet with president xi and at the g-20. they had a good discussion there. tensions are still high in some

regards with respect to china in the wake of them flying this spy balloon over the continental united states. and certainly as we watch as they continue to try to grow closer to russia. that said, nothing has changed. even with all this tension, nothing has changed about the president's intentions to make this about competition and not conflict. does not believe a conflict with china is inevitable, certainly not imminent and absolutely not in our best interest or the best interest of the chinese people. so, we're going to keep working at this, the president wants to keep the lines of communication open. we're still going to work to get secretary blinken back to beijing. he was almost on the way there when that spy balloon popped up in our air space, and actually at the prc's invitation, we're now talking to them about potential visits by secretary yellen and secretary row maun r. we want to focus on competition, keep the lines of communication open. >> i want to talk about how president xi it seems is

positioning himself in china as well. especially as you look at the three-day putin/xi meeting. xi walked away wanting to be the negotiator between russia and ukraine. although nothing really has come out of that, right? is there a worry inside the white house, the government right now, that we could be entering more of a cold war era relationship with china, considering how xi is positioning himself right now? >> no, not at all. that is a narrative coming out of beijing that we're somehow heading for a new cold war, the united states is trying to contain china and nothing could be further from the truth. it is about competition. that's how we're looking at this. i think, you know, as for peace negotiations, you didn't really see anything come out of moscow on a diplomatic end to the war, there was no call for a cease-fire by the chinese and frankly we didn't want to see that. right now a cease-fire would only ratify russia's conquest.

i want to add one more thing to this conversation, and all the concern about president xi and how this was some sort of a -- visit to moscow was some sort of a demonstration of his global leadership, i think you need to keep a little bit of this in perspective. one of the reasons why xi is still cozying up to putin and trying to cozy up even a little bit more is because he knows in american leadership around the world is unparalleled and unmatched. and that he can't match anywhere near the network of alliances and partnerships we have that president biden has invested in, revitalized. he knows that. so part of what you're seeing here with xi and putin reaching out, they need each other, for different reasons, but they need each other. they feel like they need each other because they know that american leadership on the world stage is actually increasing and becoming more influential. >> admiral john kirby, thank you for your time. appreciate it. >> you bet. thanks. that does it for me this hour, everybody. i'll be back tomorrow. you can catch me on weekends on msnbc at 2:00 p.m. eastern. "jose diaz-balart reports"

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good morning. i'm jose diaz-balart reporting from washington, d.c. this morning. new details about what is expected to happen today when the manhattan grand jury reconvenes in just about an hour. here in d.c., a tiktok showdown, social media giant ceo is testifying on capitol hill,