new york, he should be prepared to lose the case, meaning he'll spend the next three years claiming he won the case. we're now on day three of to catch a president. he said he'd be arrested on tuesday. since he announced his imminent arrest on saturday, his campaign raked in more than $1.5 million in donations, which is a lot of money. $1.5 million, that's almost enough to, i don't know, 12 more porn stars you could pay off for that much money. >> that's part of jimmy kimmel's take on former president trump's legal issues. it comes as donald trump spent hours online yesterday, furiously posting about the manhattan district attorney. rants that included messaging similar to what inspired the january 6th attack. meanwhile, on capitol hill, a hostile hearing with the ceo of tiktok. lawmakers grilled him for hours

on privacy and content concerns, as well as the company's connection to the chinese government. we'll have the highlights for you just ahead. plus, what we're learning about a drone strike overnight in syria that killed at least one american and injured a handful of u.s. service members. a lot going on. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." can you believe it's friday? it's friday, march 24th. >> you know, it is friday. you know, willie, it is interesting. you have trump raising $1.5 million off of this. puck noted last night that people around donald trump see this as a bad sign. his fundraising prowess is dried up. he's worn out all of these lists. he sent spam out for six years, seven years. the small money donations just aren't coming in. you know, right after "access hollywood," he raised $11.5

million off of small donors. after the fbi raid last summer at mar-a-lago, as he called it, he raised $2 million in two days. he's raised $1.5 million over the week. what we're all talking about, hey, this was a grift, this was a scam, which it was to raise money, people around trump, in trump's orbit, are going, like, this is a really bad sign for the coming campaign. he's completely worn out the small donors. all the big donors, of course, are going to the guy in tallahassee, ron desantis. >> yeah. it's a great point. you wonder how many times can you go back to the well and claim, "i am the victim. they're coming after me again. you're coming after you again. send me all your money," to the same small and shrinking group of people now. even his more conventional fundraising since he announced he was going to be running for president again hasn't been overwhelmingly great. i can tell you, just talking to people privately yesterday, his behavior yesterday on social

media, most people don't have his app so you probably didn't see a lot of it. we'll spare you most of it but talk to you about some of it. it has republicans, not democrats, republicans going, my god, there's got to be something else. we can't do this again. we're exhausted. this is not a man who should be president of the united states. tweeting or whatever his thing is called, in all caps, horrible, grotesque insults at people all day long. >> yeah. >> that's not the behavior of a guy who wants to be president. >> well, it's a guy who is, again, trying to whip up the base. this is really just -- >> yeah. >> -- a bigger version of what we've been saying here. you have marjorie taylor greene saying the most outrageous things that republicans don't like, but her small donors have liked. for instance, she's going to a d.c. prison to celebrate rioters today. calling rioters and, you know -- a part of a riot where people bashed in the brains of cops with american flags, she's doing

that. why is she doing that? it's bad politics, but it is good for fundraising. trump using the most egregious, grotesque language that's even turning off republicans, why is he doing it? those small donors. he didn't get it with the lie about the arrest on tuesday, so he's trying to amp it up. we're going to get to trump's day of rage in a moment. first, mika, did you see the story last night, breaking news, utah's republican governor, spencer cox, signed two, i think, pretty landmark social media bills yesterday. the intent is to dramatically limit teenagers access to apps like tiktok and instagram. one of the measures that utah is now implementing makes it the first state in the nation to prohibit platforms from having users under 18 to have accounts, unless they have the explicit consent of a parent or guardian. also, mika, you'll like this, it is also going to require parents to have access to any of their

children's posts, messages, and responses. another bill stops media companies, and this is really important, from doing features or designing things that would cause a minor to form an addiction to their platforms, and the laws are going to be challenged, of course, in the courts. also, the focus of advertising to young people, as well. i mean, that's -- what do you think. >> this is the beginning. there are a number of red states that are doing this. also california, there's a school district that is suing the social media companies. by the way, in utah, the social media companies that are being named in this new legislation are already getting ready to sue. >> right. >> the bottom line is, this is the story of our generation of kids. we both have kids. we both see amongst our own kids, their friends, and our friends' friends and kids, they're being hurt by this. this has caused an impact, a serious impact to their mental

health, and it got a lot worse during covid when social media was, in some ways, screens were the only way to do anything. again, this is just the beginning. the fact that these states are trying to enact measures like this -- like the one in utah has social media being banned from 10:30 p.m. to 6:00 a.m., during the night when kids are on their phones. they claim they need their phones to set their alarm, whatever else. they're on the phones all night, scrolling and scrolling and all the negative impact, lack of sleep, it goes on. the social media companies are going to push back, but i do believe this is really the big issue of our generation. it's going to be like big tobacco. >> yeah. willie, you can't have kids our children's age, which, again, run a pretty wide gamut, same with you, where you don't see how it is impacting our children's friends, their classmates, their communities, in such a devastating way.

and i got to say that, in a devastating way. >> yeah, no question about it. the thing overnight, the 10:30 p.m. to 6:30 a.m., that's key. our kids cannot have their phones in their rooms at that hour of the night. we bought them old-fashioned alarm clocks at target. if they want to get up, that's how they'll wake up. what is interesting, guys, is the bipartisan recognition of this crisis. it is a crisis. >> exactly. >> you have republicans in utah. you had republicans and democrats at that hearing yesterday where the ceo of tiktok was grilled in front of congress. both sides of the aisle recognizing that this is a huge problem, that something has to be done. the concerns were more national security in the congressional hearing. the overall impact of social media on teenagers now, even among republicans who maybe, joe, in the past would have said, let the government have no place stepping into business, but now saying, "this is too important. we have to do something about

this." >> they regulated tobaco because tobacco, skein tiff scientifically damaging the health of americans. this is scientifically damaging the health of americans. it is deeply offensive. let me say it again. it is deeply offensive. when people reach out to us from social media companies and suggest that it is much to do about nothing, you might as well be from the sackler family with opioids, that they take away the pain and aren't addictive. we see it. you see it. social media companies see it. they're going to have to wake up to this reality. no, we're not going to read it. you can read it online. >> here's the bottom line. it's so addictive. willie, what you'll find, i mean, i predict most parents will discover this. yes, they can't have their phones. then they'll find an ipad. then they'll be doing their homework on a computer.

it's addictive. >> right. >> it is addictive. by the way, if you can somehow protect your kids and keep them in a bubble, the bottom line is, there's a generation of kids that are being impacted by this, the overall health and inability to connect and all the other side effects. yes, side effects of the impact of social media is a mental health crisis. >> that's something, of course, that is parents' responsibility, as well. they'll have to step up. willie, by the way, last night, some incredible games. ncaa basketball, obviously, sweet 16. my god, michigan state, kansas state, crazy, you know? >> that was an absolute classic. that was the first game of the night at madison square garden, and it continued deep into the night with gonzaga and ucla playing a thriller that came down to the very end, as well. here's a look at some of the sweet 16 matchups. the first of them last night did not disappoint.

>> into the paint. the pass is in. uconn won nine of their last ten, 12 of their last 14, and they are going to be a sledgehammer. >> he gives it up. clock ticks. ball finding walker. oh, he's stripped by nowell. nowell dribbles, and he lays it in. kansas state wins it! the wildcats are headed to the elite eight. >> a chance to take the lead. it is going to be forced again. money! >> the owlowls alive and well. florida atlantic is elite eight bound. >> if you are gonzaga, you have to take the first good shot you get. you're down one. this isn't a situation where you hold the ball until the last shot. >> not at all.

you've also dominated the offensive glass. chances are you'll get more than one opportunity. >> for the lead! gonzaga survives. they're going to the elite eight in a thriller. >> how about that? gonzaga knocked off number two, ucla. the final seconds with a game-winning three-pointer. the bulldogs beat the bruins, 79-76. gonzaga was the three seed. they advance to play number four uconn on saturday for a spot in the final four. connecticut uconn, just dominant. >> crushed arkansas. >> that's a talented arkansas team with a couple lottery picks in the starting lineup. connecticut led by 29 points, dominating 88-65 in the win over arkansas. number three kansas state, as we mentioned, outlasted seven seeded michigan state in a great game at the garden in overtime.

kansas state will meet florida atlantic in the elite eight. can you believe it? florida atlantic, the number nine owls. they had not had a ncaa tournament victory in the history of its men's basketball program. now has three using a second half surge to upset fourth seeded tennessee last night. joe, we'll start there. the florida atlantic team has 34 wins this season. it's finally time to say, they're a really good team. 34-3. they've got a good shot against kansas state who was also really impressive. the kid, nowell, a record 19 assists in the win over michigan state. really fun game last night. >> really great games last night. i have to say, fau winning. fau going to the great eight. just unbelievable. the k-state game, as you said, was a lot of fun. man, i'll tell ya, jonathan lemire, one of the surprises for

me, ucla. i mean, they played a great team, but ucla, a team, though they were second seed, thinking they can go all the way, knocked out. another great team knocked out of this tournament. >> yeah. ucla was my bracket's pick to win it all, so i can officially throw that away. but this game was fantastic. how about gonzaga here? they had ten odd seconds to go at the end of the game, and they run that play with, as willie said, three from the logo. the guy's shoot was on the "s" of madness. it was on the "s," and he nailed it. >> unbelievable. >> he absolutely nailed it. just a spectacular play. look, let's give gonzaga credit. they are in this every single year, always in. sweet 16. elite eight. they made the final four years back. ucla is talented. his shoot is on the "s"!

kansas state and michigan state, it was a thriller. tom izzo has his team ready to go. they were gutsy. they were beat by a kansas state team by the slimmest of margins in overtime. fantastic games. >> all right. you stayed up too late watching. >> i did. tonight, of course, we were all -- we're all looking at princeton, come on. >> yeah. >> can princeton make it to the great eight? alabama playing -- the elite eight, the great eight. but princeton, unbelievable. they've made it that far. then, of course, i'll be looking at the south bracket tonight. all right. let's get to the news. a grand jury assembled by the manhattan district attorney's office met yesterday for the second time this week after being told not to convene on wednesday. but for reasons unknown, sources tell nbc news the group discussed a matter separate from the hush money case involving

trump and porn star stormy daniels. it is not unusual for a new york grand jury to hear multiple cases at the same time. the group is unlikely to meet again until monday at the earliest. we will keep you posted. meanwhile, the manhattan district attorney's office is slamming top house republicans for launching an investigation into the d.a.'s investigation of trump. in a letter obtained by nbc news yesterday, a general counsel for the d.a.'s office responded to a gop request from earlier in the week, which called on district attorney alvin bragg to testify before congress about his ongoing probe. that request was made by judiciary committee chair jim jordan. oversight committee chair james comer. administration committee chairman brian steil. in their letter, they claim the d.a.'s office was, quote, about to engage in an unprecedented abuse of prosecutorial authority

by indicting trump. the only person who ever claimed with certainty that trump was going to be indicted, let's remember, was trump himself. >> trying to make some money. >> on his own social media post last weekend on his truth social. in her response yesterday, the counsel for the d.a.'s office wrote the republican's request was an unprecedented request that only came after donald trump created a false expectation that he would be arrested. she added that the request treads into territory very clearly reserved to the states. >> let's bring her in now. national affairs analyst, showtime's "the circus," john heilemann. president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton. and of "the political record," amy walter. john heilemann, let's start with you. if you're attorney general of the united states of america, and a lot of wahoos start saying

things about you in congress, usually you keep your head down and you ignore it. you're appointed by the president. you go before the appropriate committees so often, probably better to just keep your head down. if you're an elected official in, you know -- outside of washington, d.c., and the people put you in there, you know what? you've got the wherewithal to fire off a letter and tell somebody to go straight to hell if they're accusing you of something you didn't do. yesterday, that's something that bragg's people felt the freedom to do. >> they felt the freedom to don't, joe. they did it forcefully. i'll tell ya, you know, if you think about the atmospherics around what is taking place here in new york city over the course of the week, you had from the moment that trump came out on truth social last weekend and called on his supporters to protest, some would say that was incitement to riot.

some would say it was reminiscent of the calls he put out before january 6th. echoes were strongly there. you saw, you know, the police barricades were laid out throughout new york city. we saw those, the footage. i saw it here in the city. you had the police department told its officers to go out in dress blues and project some sense of force. you then had trump yesterday, and lemire was talking about this in the 6:00 a.m. hour -- or the 5:00 a.m. hour, you eluded to it, i don't know how far we go with it, but the stuff trump said yesterday over the course of the day, the images he put forward, the language he used, the attack, the constant attacks all week trying to tie bragg to george soros, an anti-semitic dog whistle, the references to bragg as an animal, as someone who was human scum, doing the work of the devil. >> by the way, john, here we go. by the way, if this isn't fascist type language and

fascist type imagery. here, you have a former president of the united states. let's face it, republicans, he's your guy. he's the head of your party. with a baseball bat in a split screen and a prosecutor who he is calling human scum. i mean, i'm sorry, is that straight out of nazi germany, calling him human scum, calling him an animal, doing the george soros lie. we're going to dig into that, about what a lie that is. more anti-semitic dog whistling from donald trump. and every republican, it seems, that talks about this, they just can't help but engaging, john, in the anti-semitic dog whistling, going against a holocaust survivor. so, john, we could show you this, but go back to the image of the baseball bat while john talks. look at this. this guy was once president of the united states.

>> yeah. i mean, look, there have been some who have suggested that trump could put himself in some legal jeopardy here, that this is a -- certainly, at a minimum, it's suggestive of a direct threat to a public official, to the manhattan d.a. some say it goes further than that. do messaged here. if you come up with a line whic rolling a big package. you combine it with that imagery, it is a provocative image, to say the leave. dangerous, incendiary. there's been a lot of discussions around the security that is being put in place to try to protect alvin bragg here in manhattan. joe, you guys made the point earlier. there is no doubt, we don't know what donald trump's supporters will or won't do if he is or isn't indicted, but what we have seen over the course of this

week is that when donald trump threw up the trump signal, the bat signal on saturday and tried to move this case out of the legal realm and into the political realm, i'll tell you who didn't come riding to his rescue. house republicans. he continues to have, in the one branch of government where republicans are charge, he continues to have the chairman of two powerful committees with subpoena power who, before any indictment was ever actually issued by the office -- i know this point has been made but i'll say it again -- he asked them to jump. they said, "how high?" they're aiding in his effort to try to delegitimize, disrupt, wreak some kind of chaos that will, i guess in trump's view, advantage him politically somehow. potentially disrupt the proceedings of the grand jury. we have no reason to think that has happened yet, but in donald trump's world today, in donald trump's head, he thinks he won this week. he thinks that he -- he thinks -- a lot of people

thought he'd get indicted this week. he's not getting indicted this week. his messaging yesterday about how the d.a.'s office is in disarray, i don't know if he believes that or not. but the antics he pulled off this week, support he got from republicans, and the turn jot we're likely to see tomorrow in waco, texas, which you talk about that later, the ugliness of that scene, but i think donald trump feels he's in a better place today than he was last saturday. >> well, it may feel that way inside his bubble, but it's not much outside of that, rev. you look at what he was posting yesterday, calling alvin bragg a soros-backed animal, going on and on. if someone in your life, someone you loved and cared about was behaving the way donald trump behaved yesterday, writing the things he wrote yesterday, you call an emergency family meeting to talk about it and figure out what to do with him. it was ugly to say the least. the comments were anti-semitic. they were racist. but donald trump does believe that this is helping him play

the victim card, to say that they're out to get me. he called the d.a.'s office the gestapo. he said, they're trying to prevent me from being president again. you know both parties in this. you've dealt with donald trump for a long time. you know alvin bragg. does donald trump really benefit from any of this? >> he certainly doesn't benefit. i think that beyond all of the bluster, and it is certainly the most vicious anti-semitic language you can use, and a former president is using it. beneath it all, when i knew donald trump, i think he is very nervous. we're looking at a man what is becoming unhinged because he does not know what lies ahead. when you look at the fact that people are forgetting, alvin bragg is the same d.a. that

would not go forward with the case. two of his assistants resigned. one wrote a book. he's now going forward, which sends every signal that maybe they saw something or figured out something or have some witness that they did not have when he decided not to go forward before. and the reason i believe that is donald trump. he's also, in my opinion, shaken by the fact that, let's not forget, he called for people to protest on tuesday and nobody showed up. you know, we're showing the barricades. let's show the fact that nobody showed up to those barricades. so not only are we seeing the money is not coming in, the uprighting of the masses that he claims to be leading are not rushing to the barricades. all of this is leading him becoming unhinged. he is going to who he is, a very

anti-semitic racist. to call a man an animal, a learned man an animal, and to connect him to a man whose only position in this is he happens to be a jewish man who helps causes he likes, shows a man that has lost control. he is hearing footsteps, and they're getting closer. >> and as offensive as trump's rhetoric was yesterday in his post, it got more dangerous overnight. joe and mika, in the last couple hours, a post on truth social, well after midnight, trump says this, as usual routine about how he is innocent. then he says this about d.a. bragg. about the consequences of a potential charge. he says, does he know, quote, potential death and destruction for such a false charge could be catastrophic for our country? >> okay. >> that is donald trump, the former president of the united states, who we knew incited violence once on january 6th, suggesting that there could be death and destruction, in his words, if he were to be charged

now. >> first, he's threatening the d.a. with an image, with a baseball bat. i mean, again, jonathan, let's back up. let's show that image again. >> yup. >> i can tell ya, at least when i was a lawyer in northwest florida, if you did that, held that baseball bat up and put it on social media, if there were social media back then, and there was a split screen with a prosecutor, i mean, you could expect a knock on your door. i mean, that is threatening violence against a prosecutor and trying to get other people to commit acts of violence against a prosecutor. and then, jonathan, if you could, read it again. what is the timestamp on that, where donald trump is now threatening death and destruction if he is -- get this, if he is possibly charged.

could just be a misdemeanor. death and destruction and riots for a misdemeanor charge? what did he say again, and what time did he say it? >> so truth social, it doesn't timestamp with the precise time, but it tells you approximately how many hours ago. this is about five hours ago, so after midnight. we can safely say after midnight. i'll simply read it. what kind of person can charge another person, in this case, a former president, who got more votes -- we'll skip that. how do you charge this person with a crime when it is known by all, that no crime has been committed and also know -- >> it's not known by all. >> not known by all. but also, no crime has been committed and also known that potential death and destruction in such a false charge could be catastrophic for our country. why and who would do such a thing? only a degenerate psychopath that truly hates the united states of america. that was posted after midnight by the former president of the united states, calling for death, saying there could be

death and destruction if he was charged with, as you say, potentially just a misdemeanor. >> rev, i have to say, rev, i want to go back to what you said. the guy is shaking in his boots. now, of course, he's threatening the lives of other people. he's threatening the lives of other people. but you read these tweets or whatever you call it on that failing platform, and this is a guy who, you're right, he's out of his mind scared. he is melting down. now, he is threatening riots that will lead to death and destruction if he is charged with a misdemeanor. >> any man that is up in the middle of the night, that is going with this kind of language, is scared to death. the problem, though, is that he is inciting people. no matter how small they have become as a crowd, to do

something. add that to him having the photo of the bat at a sitting prosecutor, i mean, it's unimaginable. you're right, joe, we'd be arrested for that. we have chairmans of committees telling a prosecutor, who is in the middle of an investigation, to come and give us the evidence. i mean, they're really tampering with an investigation. this is not an investigation that's concluded. before we know whether there is an indictment or charge, they're saying, bring us the evidence? i mean, this is unheard of. what is jordan talking about? they're in the middle of a grand jury proceeding. you want the prosecutor to leave the proceeding and tell me the evidence you're giving, and we'll put it on national television so the target can understand the evidence? i mean, we are going beyond all bounds of what is legal, what is respectful, and we have a man who is scared to death, that is

up in the middle of the night inciting violence, having a photo with a bat, because he's scared to death he's going to have to face this prosecution. >> well, just to show you, mika, how quickly this is devolving for a man completely out of control. he's melted down. we do from a lower third that says trump threatening d.a. with violent imagery to, now, trump threatening d.a. with death and destruction. again, using his own words. he's now threatening a d.a. with death and destruction. i'm sorry, is that legal? i want to know. what would happen if somebody that worked in a school threatened a d.a. with death and destruction? >> exactly. actually, that's a great parallel. the only thing i find shocking is this is a moment for republicans in congress to step

up. >> they won't. >> this is where trumpers who support donald trump, who are in leadership positions, who are afraid of their base, need to say, you know what, this is the line. they never draw the line. this is no surprise, that donald trump is acting this way. amplifying violent imagery. he suggested that the second amendment people could act against hillary clinton. >> second amendment solution. >> remember charlottesville? this is the beginning of his president, he said there were very fine people among a group of violent white nationalists. he blames the media the day after a pipe bomb was sent to democrats he had attacked. of course, he praised the january 6th insurrectionists. so it is not surprising, his behavior. what is surprising to me is that republicans in congress and media entities continue to promulgate this or allow it to happen without reporting on it. amy walter, you have a piece published in the cook political

report entitled "will an indictment sink trump or rescue him?" i think part of what i'm talking about might be part of the answer. what is the answer? >> well, it depends on where you focus. if you're talking about the broader american electorate, this is not helpful at all. everything you all brought up is what we know about donald trump. it's the reason that he lost re-election in 2020. it's the reason that republicans did poorly in the 2022 elections. lost the senate in 2021. i mean, it is the classic example of when you're a hammer, everything is a nail. there's one speed for donald trump, and it is this, everything you all mentioned. for his base, and that goes to the second audience, yes, this is what they like to see. the more that he is in the news, the better for him with his base. the more unpopular he is with independents. the question in my mind isn't

what are house republicans going to do? to me, this isn't particularly surprising. they have supported and stand behind the president. most of these folks continue to believe that having him on the ticket helps them, helps them retain their control of the house. but watching the other kand datd candidates who have to go up against him as presidential candidates, you know, you've had ron desantis, florida governor who takes sort of a backhanded swipe, right? maybe from an angle swipe on, you know, look, he also uses the soros language, but says, you know, i don't know. what goes into hush money payments to mistresses? i don't know that much about it. we'll have to wait and see. at the same time, the real question, i think, about what matters in terms of his presidential candidacy among republicans is what does it look

like -- we'll get more polls and legal action in the next few months, but in august, when there is the first republican debate, watching how those republicans respond to him is going to be everything. >> yeah. >> amy, as you eluded to there in your headline, "will an indictment sink trump," it is fair to ask, which indictment? we could talk about the d.a.'s office, fulton county, georgia, potentially, the attack on the capitol, the mar-a-lago documents. these things do stack up, and some of them get more serious, even potentially than what we're talking about here. but do you see any appetite among republicans to go after donald trump in any serious way? we've been seeing, as you said, ron desantis sort of dipping his toe in the water this week with the interview with piers morgan, with his press conference earlier in the week. >> right. >> but they're afraid to go after him because they're afraid of his base and his voters. so is there someone in this field who could stand up to him? >> so your point is a very good

one, about how many more indictments or legal actions are we going to see between now and then? for a lot of republicans, this isn't the case that they would like to take to use against trump. as much as, say, the georgia case or the -- even the mar-a-lago case, where the substance of it is easier to be able to use against him. but at this point, i think, the weight of it, they're hoping, is also going to take care of donald trump, potentially before we even get to august. >> all right. we shall see. amy walter, thank you, as always, for being with us. we really appreciate it. john heilemann, you know, by the way, this donald trump obsession, setting himself on fire, going crazy on the

manhattan d.a., there are people in trump world saying he is doing that for a reason. he wants all eyes averted to manhattan. he wants us talking about manhattan. because he knows he is in much bigger trouble in washington. he's in much bigger trouble in georgia. he knows he is in much bigger trouble with a mar-a-lago investigation. so he sets himself on fire over a misdemeanor charge. we all chase it all week because we can't help ourselves. the whole political world. trump gets the attention. for instance, what is happening in washington, d.c. today, which may actually be what finally gets him indicted and finally gets this man to be held accountable for the first time in his life for his law breaking.

>> this is right. the other way to put it is that trump -- this is the terrain -- think what he is trying to do, move these matters from the legal realm to the political realm. he thinks he's on the strongest footing politically to fight over the stormy daniels hush money payments. those are things that happened before he was president. he kind of thinks he can contextualize those and make them seem like they're part of a witch hunt. it is harder to do that in some of the other cases. we saw earlier in the week, before i get to d.c., we saw earlier in the week, two months after the fulton county d.a. came out and said, hey, something is imminent here, suddenly, the trump legal team, two months later for no apparent reason, tries to scuttle that case. they're not going to get anywhere with that. what are they hearing about the possibility that an indictment in georgia is imminent? then you get to washington, where i think, you know, at the beginning of this week, we thought maybe the history-making thing, the thing that history would remember this week was his

indictment here in manhattan where i'm sitting. but over the course of the week, we now learn that the grand jury, that the special counsel has convened in washington, d.c., believes so stronger and has convinced a judge that there's such credible evidence that donald trump had committed a crime that sits right up against obstruction of justice, that involves his lying to his own lawyer. they have a judge agree that the attorney has to break attorney-client privilege. if you think, as many people do, in the documents case that the obstruction of justice charges are the ones that are most likely to stick to trump. the documents, okay, joe biden has documents. mike pence had documents. al gore had documents. that case has been muddied by politics, but the obstruction

charges are powerful. it seems the special counsel is honing in on those. there's evidence, it seems, that's so powerful, a judge ordered trump's lawyer to come before him and break attorney-client privilege. >> that's big. >> that is a sign the case is getting close to an indictment. i think everyone who is following all these cases looks at this hearing today as a sign that this may be the something that history looks back on. this is the one that matters more politically, legally, matters more to trump's future than anything happening in manhattan. this is a big deal, that hearing. >> rev, if you have a judge, a federal judge, agreeing that an attorney has to testify and pierce that attorney-client confidentiality, the standard that a judge has to use to come to that conclusion is, it is likely.

it is likely that a crime was committed. so if it is likely that a crime is committed regarding classified documents, regarding top secret documents, and you have donald trump obstructing the ability to get top secret, classified documents back to a safe holding space, maybe, maybe that explains why he is setting himself on fire and saying, look here. look at this misdemeanor up here. look, look, look what's happening in manhattan. he doesn't want us talking about the fact that a federal judge has already concluded that it is likely he committed a felony. >> no doubt about it. and i think the panic that you and i were talking about, it may not be manhattan, but he's definitely in a panic. i think it is absolutely a panic when you now have taken just the documents found in one box and

move them to a box of obstruction. now, you can't talk about pence and biden. you're talki about a singular thing that could really unravel donald trump for all time, with a federal indictment of obstruction with the intent to obstruct and go around the law. i think that's why we're seeing these midnight rants from him that he is posting. because he is hearing, as i said, these footsteps coming closer. those midnight demons are saying to him, they're coming to get ya, donald. the manhattan elite that you always felt looked down on you and your dad are laughing at you. they're on their way. the only way he can express it is to go using his anti-semitic, racist ways of jumping out at bragg and taking shots at soros. but the real, core problem is he feels trapped and caught. it may not be in manhattan, but he knows that they're coming to

get him. i think that th judge's decision in washington is what prably incited his real fear. >> my goodness. coming up on "morning joe," we'll have the highlights from yesterday's high-stakes congressional hearing about the safety and security of tiktok. plus, what republican senator lindsey graham did that got him reprimanded by the nate ethics committee. also ahead, an overnight drone strike in syria has left one u.s. contractor dead and five u.s. service members wounded. we'll talk about white house national security spokesman john kirby about that. former governor kasich who faced off against trump in the 2016 presidential primary is our guest. he says trump is still a long way from the 2024 nomination. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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♪ smile like you mean it ♪ beautiful shot of washington, d.c., 15 to 7:00. if you need to be in the office by 7:00. >> you're late. >> you want to be like me, well, you have about ten minutes until you leave your apartment to get to work. if you're like mika, you're already at the desk, sitting there working, looking at the clock, wondering where i am. >> exactly. >> anyway, from washington, d.c. to paris, breaking news from the "associated press." british king's visit to france canceled amid pass protests. willie, it seems that king charles iii and the french president, macron, spoke and

decided to cancel the visit. it was going to be king charles iii's first state visit to another country. he's going to go to france and then germany, but they have cans canceled, for now, the french part of that. protests breaking out because, this is shocking, they raised the retirement age from 14 in france to 27. actually, they raised it from 62 to 64. this, i guess, is some sort of threat to the french way of life. when, in fact, all macron is trying to do is keep the system alive. they have the most generous retirement benefits. 62, seriously? with life expectancy going up all over the place, it makes little sense to keep it at 62. france right now protests. it looks like thatcher's britain in the 1980s. she, of course, ended up winning that battle and the british

economy survived. whether people love to hate margaret thatcher or not, that's the reality. i suspect there will be people on the left who hate macron forever. the far left in france hating ma'am ron from raising the retirement age from 62 to 64. he's just guaranteed workers that, when they retire, they'll have a system that will take care of them. >> yeah. there were concerns about this visit anyway with king charles, as you said, making his first overseas visit as king, going to france to sort of solidify the bond between the two countries. the streets of paris are filled with garbage. there are protests everywhere. things being lit on fire. it might not be the best optics to have the wealth and privilege of a king walking the streets there. they decided, at least for now, to postpone the visit. i'm sure he'll be back soon. back here in the united states, later today, members of the house oversight committee are scheduled to tour a jail in washington where defendants charged with crimes related to the january 6th insurrection are being held. republican committee chair james

comer will not take part. he says due to a family event back home in kentucky. >> i bet. >> committee member marjorie taylor greene, who previously visited that facility, has criticized the detainment of the january 6th defendants, calling for their release. tweeting, she will lead the group, calling it a, quote, bipartisan delegation. but our next guest explains why it is a bipartisan visit. joining us now, democratic congresswoman jasmine crockett of texas. she is one of two democratic members of congress who will visit that jail later today. she'll be joined, as well, by congresswoman summer lee of pennsylvania. congresswoman, thanks for your time this morning. i'll let you explain it, but the way i understand it, you're sort of there as a chaperon to the republicans, to make sure that when they come back and let the story of what happened today, tell the story of what you all see, that your version of the truth will be there, as well. do i have that right? >> you absolutely have that right. listen, we know that these maga republicans have a problem with

the truth. in fact, that's why we are coddling these january 6th insurrectionists. you know, i'm just a freshman, so i watched january 6th from afar, unlike what so many of my colleagues experienced. the fact that, you know, they want to go in, and these people, some of them which were attempting murder, and they want to have a conversation about how comfortable they are? they want to have a conversation about whether or not their ipads are working or if they have enough time on their ipads, which is what i am hearing. as someone who has been a public defender, let me tell you something, they know nothing about what bad conditions are. i'm going to clarify that after i can see with my own two eyes. but in the state of texas, we don't even have air-conditioning in our prisons, and we are, once again, in the state of texas. we've had inmates die from overheating. you know, the idea that these folks somehow should engage in a

real conversation now that january 6th, mostly white folk, are saying these accommodations don't work for them, when black and brown folks have been trying to have a real conversation around what prison accommodation should look like, if we are just going to be humane, is laughable. so i look forward to this visit, and i look forward to reporting out on the accommodations and whether or not they are subpar. >> congresswoman, just thinking in line of trumpists and trump himself, how he handles the media, i'm curious what the plan is here. especially as, as you put it, these maga republicans try and do this tour and whatever else they're going to do, perhaps you could share with us what the plans are. but how do you make sure you don't validate exactly what they're doing and bring more light to it? >> yeah. you know, here's the deal, we know that marjorie taylor greene and crew, they already have a

large microphone. doesn't matter if we were there or not. we know that the media is going to cover anything that they do. the problem is if no one were to show up, there's no one to counter. there is absolutely no one to tell the truth about what was going on behind bars. we won't be allowed to have cell phones, so our truth will be whatever it is we recall it to be. just like they have said time and time again, that this was a tour, it wasn't an insurrection, you know, we need to make sure that someone is there to tell an actual account of what the historical nature of this visit really show ed. we know there's some choir they have. they're on itunes on something. these folk are not being treated like the average inmates. unfortunately, what i fully anticipate we're going to see, is yet another level of privilege. so my job is to make sure that i report the truth.

my job is to also hold them accountable. we've got our appropriations processes going on right now. we actually are submitting for a community project investment that would update one of the jails in my district, a jail that hasn't had an update since the 1980s. we're talking about an intercom system that is failing inmates when they need to communicate about a health care issue for them. we are actually trying to make sure that we're giving the basic needs in my district. so i look forward to their support on this. i also want to make it clear, while they're talking about these conditions, the january 6th-ers arrived at the jail. in this country, if we want a real conversation, let's have a robust conversation. let's talk about george floyd. there's talk about sandra bland, who was taken into custody in the state of texas for a traffic violation and, somehow, ended up dead. we can have a real conversation. but before i start to say what

is or isn't going on in this jail, i've got to see it myself. i'm not here to validate that there is something problematic, because i can guarantee you that, at a very minimum, they have air-conditioning. >> yeah. again, here you have people who beat the hell out of cops with american flags. their families saying they died because of the rioters. they are bitching and moaning about their ipads in jail. yeah, you're exactly right. we thank you for being with us. thank you for going today. i hope you'll come back. >> democratic congresswoman jasmi crockett of texas. >> report, congresswoman, about what you see there. >> thank you so much. have a good one. >> thank you. you, too. john heilemann, again, you know, i'm not repeating myself. they put another block, another brick in the wall, these

republicans. another brick in the wall, you stack them up, and it's the wall they build that keeps them away rom the ing voters they keep losing, the suburban voters they keep losing. look what republicans are doing. again, they keep adding to the list. just in the last 24 hours, you've had a former president who is the head of their party right now, the most popular person in their party right now, threatening violence against the district attrney with a baseball bat. you have him promising death and destruction if he gets charged with a misdemeanor. death and destruction. you have republican members of congress going to praise rioters, people that beat the hell out of cops with baseball bats. you have republican senatorsho still haven't taken it back. republican senators who say they wish our military were more like

russia's military. you have another top republican who is probably running for president, who actually is quoting kremlin talking points this past week, when he said that russia's bloody invasion of ukraine, that the icc have said, you know, constitutes war crimes, is nothing more than a border dispute. again, i can keep going. this is just, like, in the last -- you know, most of this is in the last week. they sit here and wonder why they've lost every election since 2016. >> yeah. remember, joe, trump said, there's so much winning, they'll get tired of winning. seems like the opposite is true there. there's been so much losing, they haven't gotten yet tired of losing. i agree with everything you said. they keep walking the plank for donald trump. you know, i'll say the one thing

i know we have to get out here, there's a hard out we're getting to, but the thing that's popped out from the last truth social post of his when he calls alvin bragg a, i believe, degenerate psychopath, and, as always, my favorite phrase, everything that donald trumpsays, neither projection nor confession. you can imagine which one the degenerate psychopath qualifies for in that formulation. >> you have to wonder. john heilemann, thank you very much for being on this morning. we appreciate it. >> thank you, john. coming up on "morning joe," michigan governor whitmer is our guest. we'll get to the legislation, with republicans calling the gun safety laws similar to the holocaust. >> wow. one ally ramps up naval patrols near sea pipelines off its coast. nbc's tom costello joins with us

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i was astonished when i saw the letter from the three committee chairs to mr. bagg, essentially calling on him to violate grand jury secrecy laws in new york which, of course, is a felony. he rightly declined to do that.

>> that was democratic glenn ivey of maryland. >> another brick in the wall. >> yes. responding to a letter from donald trump's republican allies in congress who want the manhattan d.a. to turn over testimony in the grand jury investigation into those hush money payments. another example of how they continue to rally around the former president, despite his legal troubles. welcome back to "morning joe." it is friday, march 24th. jonathan lemire and reverend al sharpton still with us. joining the conversation, former u.s. senator, now an nbc news and msnbc political analyst, claire mccaskill. professor at princeton university, eddie glaude jr. and msnbc host maty hasan. as you were talking about the wall that donald trump was building, he is getting his wall. >> right. >> his big, beautiful wall. >> the only thing we never realized was the big, beautiful

wall that he was building was with the benefit of the democrats. building a wall that keeps republicans from winning elections. >> build that wall. >> death and destruction, if he gets another misdemeanor, put in another brick. >> build that wall. >> the bat, another brick. again, this wall that is separating republicans from swing voters, from independent voters, from the suburban voters who turn on them. look at that picture. another brick in the wall. >> goodness gracious. this is so far before the 2024 election. by the time the election comes, that wall is going to be tall and, as trump says, beautiful. >> it is why they performed so badly in 2022. you now have, of course, republicans going to praise rioters. >> it is going to be beautiful. >> that bashed the brains in of cops with american flags. because they believed donald trump's lie about a stolen election. maybe they're just rioters. maybe they're thugs.

>> huge. >> interesting, reverend al, we've been talking about donald trump and death and destruction. he's talking about death and destruction if he gets charged with a misdemeanor. he is talking about -- he's got the baseball bat next to alvin bragg's head, obviously inciting violence there. and you also have had over the past couple of days him calling alvin bragg animal, human scum. again, this is just pure nazi rhetoric. calling him a soros-backed animal. here, we got a little bit of everything going on here. you have bigotry against black people, of course, and then we've got the anti-semitic dog whistle that all republicans seem to be trotting out in defense of donald trump. i say all republicans. all republicans who are defending donald trump, starting with ron desantis, they always

go to this old anti-semitic trope. let's go after the international jewish banker, even if this is a guy who survived the holocaust. let's take a listen real quick. >> some type of manufactured circus by some soro d.a. >> soros prosecutor. >> prosecutor alvin bragg is from george soros. >> master george soros. >> mr. soros. >> alvin bragg, in particular, is the most radical d.a. you can ultimately get to. george soros funded him over $1 million. >> his -- i just can't even believe people will say this publicly. >> another brick in the wall. >> with the camera going master. a black man's master. ewish international banker, seriously? i'm telling you, if -- who is

the guy from iowa, that king guy? i think i served with him for a couple of weeks. steve king. steve king was kicked off of committees in the republican party for saying less than this. >> thank you. >> now, they're all saying it openly. reverend al, anti-semitic tropes, racism, threats of violence, threats of death and destruction, i mean, this is absolutely crazy. yet, the republicans just building those bricks. bricks that keep them away from the voters they need. a wall that keeps them away from voters they need to win elections. >> well, it brings you right back to it. even when i was a kid and you watched the civil rights movement in the '60s, it was dr. king that they accused of being with the jewish communist, levinson and others, all the way through to where you had

charlottesville. you were fighting a confederate statue of robert e. lee, head of the confederate army, trying to keep black people enslaved, and they were attacking jews there. the coupling of black and jewish attacks, this anti-semitism and making blacks animals, as in the case of donald trump calling alvin bragg that, is rooted in the whole bigotry and the whole racist, anti-semitic coupling that we've had to fight in this country. i think that they are really expressing out loud, saying out loud, no dog whistle here, they're saying it out loud, what has been at the root of american racism. i think it's outrageous. now, they're backed up by chairmans of committees that's calling this man in to say, "give us your evidence," like he is not a real prosecutor. >> unbelievable. the soros clips were from your

show. talk about taking something down. you took their argument down brick by brick, piece by piece. talk about how off they are, trying to paint this d.a. as some tool of a jewish international banker. >> yeah, it's become kind of fact on the right. as so many facts on the right turn out to be, they're not factual at all. we did some digging on my show into this nonsense. you heard stefanik say he got $1 million from george soros. none of that is true. alvin bragg, here the are the facts. he announced his candidacy for d.a. in 2019. in 2021, a pac said, we're going to promote george soros. someone gives them $1 million. they spend half a million dollars on alvin bragg's campaign. it's their own ads promoting bragg. no money changes hands. the color of change gave no money to alvin bragg.

george soros, no $1 million, no $500,000. we reached out to the soros people. george soros has never met with alvin bragg, never spoke with him, never emailed alvin bragg, never been on a zoom call with alvin bragg, never given a dime to alvin bragg. in what world, in what world is alvin bragg a soros d.a. or animal, to disgustingly quote donald trump. only in the anti-semitic conspiracy theorists who dominate the american conservative movement. joe, quick point, republicans say they love money and politics. money is speech. even if he did give money to bragg, which he didn't, what is wrong with that? what objection could they have to the jewish billionaire holocaust survivor? i can't possibly imagine. >> the jewish international banker, my god, this goes back centuries. pick up the trope and go with it. >> yup. >> also something to point out that i think you pointed out, alvin bragg never met soros. he's never spoken to him on the phone. he's never done his zoom with i-

he's never communicated with soros before. yet, they're saying that this black man is an international jewish banker, their trope, is his master. that soros is bragg's master, despite the fact that i never met or talked to each other. >> joe, it is so brilliant. it's kind of evil brilliant, that they've managed to do an attack, to defend donald trump, that combines both anti-black racism and anti-semitism at the same time. it is actually kind of white supremacist genius. >> mehdi hasan, thank you. that's so disturbing. >> so disturbing. >> the mehdi hasan show, mondays at 8:00 a.m. on msnbc and tuesdays on peacock. new book. >> great book. >> "the art of debating, persuading and public speaking" is out now. thank you very much for coming on. >> "new york times" best seller.

thank you for being with us, mehdi. appreciate it. claire mccaskill, i was talking pre-trump. if somebody just said one of those things in the clips, republicans would have taken them off committees and said, you know what, we have no place for that bigotry here. it's 2014 or 2015. you can't do that. now, they're all saying the quiet part out loud. they're all talking about jewish international bankers. donald trump talking about human scum. promising death and destruction if he gets charged with a misdemeanor, and holding a baseball bat and an image next to a d.a.'s head. what would have happened if, let's say, a county commissioner in kansas city had done that and sent pictures around with a baseball bat next to your head when you were prosecutor? >> well, probably all hell would have broken loose. i can't imagine anybody would be that insane to do that.

but here we are. you know, the interest thing, joe, is, you know, i'm painfully aware of the voters in america that are willing to vote for either party. i won elections because of those voters, and i lost an election because of those voters. those voters in my state, barack obama almost won in 2008. then donald trump won, you know, in 2016 by 20 points. so there are hundreds of thousands of voters in my state, millions of voters in america that have no freaking idea who george soros is. they keep saying george soros. lots of americans have no idea who he is. and they don't care. so this thing the republican party is doing, as you have pointed out time and time again, this morning and other mornings, is they are walling themselves off from the electorate that decides who is president of the

united states. and it is amazing to me, the political malpractice that is going on in the house of representatives. there is no way you can interpret donald trump stand standing with a baseball bat in any other way than he is asking people to commit assault, either on property or on people. and they are defending him. it is astounding if you think about it in isolation. >> professor eddie glaude, certainly, this may be political malpractice, this may hurt republicans winning the independent and swing voters who often decides elections, but right now, it is also evidence that the gop is in donald trump's grasp. and with him leading the charge, they have mainstreamed these hateful ideas. these ideas about race. these ideas about anti-semitism. these calls for violence. in the truth social post put up

after midnight, suggesting there could be death and destruction. these are ideas that are no longer on the fringes anymore. they are right dead center of the trump maga base, which is still the dominant force in the republican party. >> absolutely. john, they're the voters that donald trump needs and the voters donald trump has. we need to understand that he is appealing to them. there is a sense, we've already known, the anti-defamation league released a report showing the rise in anti-semitism in fact country. the federal government released a report about the rise in racial slurs and things in the country. what donald trump is appealing to, what the political figures are appealing to, are the hatreds and fears that animate the country, the republican party specifically. we need to understand that for what it is. trump is an avatar, as i said before, for a range of sentiment that animates, i think, a large swath of the american public. we have to wrap our minds around

that. the question is, why do these folks think it'll work? i think they have evidence that it has worked. we have to understand that at its core. >> i think that it has worked, and i think that we need to understand it. but i go back to joe's point. when you talk about -- when you refored to ferred to soros, i b was the 1920s or '30s, joe, where they had these pamphlets, the international jew. >> absolutely. >> that's what they're making soros. >> right. >> they're saying this international jew is financing this animal who condition think for himself. they don't have to mean he is an animal. just send word to him. it dehumantizes blacks in coupling that together. if bragg was taking orders from soros, why didn't he take them when he wouldn't go through with the prosecution a year ago when two assistant d.a.'s resigned

because he wouldn't go forward, and wrote a book about it. how come he wasn't listening to master then? this doesn't have any logic to it. it is using the anti-semitism and racism that we are fighting now, that others have fought in decades past. that's why we just had a hate summit with adl and all of us at the white house. this is what donald trump is playing on, and this is the kind of vile disregard for what this country has, that we have in a former president of the united states. >> and you are so right. the anti-semitic trope, the jew-hating trope about international bankers goes back to the '20s. this anti-semitism goes back centuries in europe. it is an anti-semitism that hitler preyed upon in his rise in nazi germany. it was there. it's what donald trump is trying to prey on right now. it's really -- mika, again, we keep talking about it, it is

going to stop republicans from having a shot at winning. they may not know who george soros is, but they certainly can figure out the anti-semitism. they certainly can figure out the racism. they can figure out donald trump just threatening death and destruction, holding up a baseball bat next to a d.a., calling people human scum. right? calling them animals. calling a back man an animal that's run around by an international jewish banker. all this adds up. it may not be 10%, maybe not 5%, maybe republicans lose another 0.2% or 0.3% in 2024. they already lost. they just keep losing. they keep moving further and further away from the majority. my god, this is a party that's

lost seven of the last eight presidential elections. the popular vote in seven of the last eight presidential elections. they are already in the minority. they're just intensifying it and making sure they're going to be in the minority, as well, in the electoral college. my god, you look at the state of the republican party right now. all you can say is thank god. >> all this behavior doesn't push back against the potential of an indictment. to quote chris christie, like a week ago, it's just not good. it's not going to be good. for no one, an indictment is good. in the "wall street journal" editorial, the board argues the republican probe of the new york district attorney is bad law and worse politics. it writes in part, it is one thing to denounce mr. bragg's prosecution as weak and unjust.

it is another to look like defending mr. trump is the new majority's main preoccupation. house republicans will soon vote on a promising energy reform that could put some moderate democrats on the spot. but good luck getting anyone to notice, as mr. trump's case dominates the airwaves. to have any leverage with mr. biden in debt ceiling talks, house republicans need to unify behind and pass a budget resolution. yet, they've made no progress on doing so, as they hit the cable shows to talk about mr. trump 24 hours a day. republicans are foolish to feed the trump mob with a campaign against mr. bragg that exceeds their power and has no chance of success. >> claire mccaskill, you touched on this, the political incompetence of republicans since they take over. what'd they start with? the mccarthy circus.

we watch as freaks hold everybody hostage politically, and that happened. they're doing the investigate the investigator stuff. jim jordan looking like a political idiot. it's falling apart. now, they're going after a local d.a. in new york city. again, the political incompetence, the malpractice is cr crazy. these people who have been bitching and moaning about immigration reform now for decades can't even get an immigration bill onto the house floor and pass it because they can't even agree inside their own caucus on what that immigration reform bill looks like. how do they complain about immigration if they own the house and they can't even put an immigration bill on the floor because they're so incompetent? >> yeah, who are the faces of the republican party right now? the faces of the republican party right now are marjorie

taylor greene, lauren boebert. let's not forget our friend santos, the guy who has taken lying to a new art form in politics. and donald trump. i mean, these are not winning faces for the republican party. you know, this thing about them coming after bragg, you know, the hypocrisy of this republican leadership group in the house is so stunning. first, i want to talk about fiscal conservative. you and i talked many times about what a lie that is, as far as they're concerned. they talk about federalism. you should leave local government alone. most americans don't understand the bright line that divides local prosecutors from federal prosecutors. local prosecutors are elected by people in their communities to enforce state law. by the way, they do most of the crime fighting in america. they do about 90% of the

prosecutions. the only thing congress can do to bragg, the only thing they can do is cut off any federal funding they get for special projects. we had federal money for helping victims of crime. we had some federal money for community police officers. now, if they want to do that while they're claiming to fight crime, go for it. otherwise, they need to shut up. >> and on that note. >> on that happy note, we will be right back. when we come back, we will be talking about eddie glaude's tie. i think it is cruel we've had him here for 21 minutes and he hasn't had a chance to talk about princeton. >> not a word. >> we will talk about princeton when we come back. reverend al, what a guest you have this weekend on your show. >> i have joe tacopina, who is the lawyer. >> that'll be interesting. >> yeah. you know, i have a lot of respect for him. we fought causes together. i want to know why he is representing donald trump.

he is saying this is about the law. i really don't understand how someone with his reputation could be with someone that's up in the middle of the night spewing the kind of hatred that he is doing. but even donald trump has a right to a legal defense. i want to hear what it is, and i want to also question him about the behavior of his client. >> you're going to play his old clips where he said that donald trump is guilty? you need to play him the old clips, right? >> it's a crime. >> well, i think you are forecasting what i was going to surprise, but you and i are friends, let's just tell people, watch tomorrow at 5:00. you will not be surprised. i will not let you down. still ahead on "morning joe," the ceo of tiktok spent nearly five hours facing questions from lawmakers yesterday, but did his answers actually lessen concerns about the app? plus, president biden visits canada for talks with prime minister justin trudeau. we'll go over what's on the

agenda for the two leaders. and all of the highlights from the ncaa tournament action in the sweet 16 last night. >> look at that. eddie glaude's princeton coming up tonight. >> we're back in a moment. ♪breeze driftin' on by...♪ ♪...you know how i feel.♪ you don't have to take... [coughing] ...copd sitting down. ♪it's a new dawn,...♪ ♪...it's a new day,♪ it's time to make a stand. ♪and i'm feelin' good.♪ start a new day with trelegy. no once-daily copd... ...medicine has the power to treat copd... ...in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler,... ...trelegy makes breathing easier for a full 24 hours, improves lung function, and helps prevent future flare-ups. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler... ...for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain,

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when covid hit, we had some challenges. i heard about the payroll tax refund that allowed us to keep the people that have been here taking care of us. learn more at getrefunds.com. ♪♪ live picture on a friday morning of new york city as we near the bottom of the hour here. college basketball's sweet 16 tipped off last night right there in new york city, madison square garden. four teams now have punched their tickets to the elite eight. nbc news correspondent sam brock joins us now, live from coral gables, florida. the university of miami, the hurricanes, have a big one themselves tonight. sam, good morning. >> reporter: yeah, willie, good morning. how about what's going on right now in south florida? as you mentioned, we're at the

university of miami, coral gables is abuzz. the men's and women's team are in the sweet 16 for the first time ever this year. they both play later today. also, the fau owls up in boca raton, they'd not had a single ncaa tournament win until this year. now, they're one win away from going to the final four. >> florida atlantic is elite eight bound. >> reporter: this morning, a cinderella story that is still being written. the underdog fau owls digging their talons into a tough tennessee team. the nine seed a one away from the final four. a late-game one by michael forest, the first recruit. >> here he comes. >> reporter: weeks ago, he told us he's been picturing this moment for years. >> when i first got onto campus, i wrote, march madness on my name plate. that was always, like, a goal and a dream of mine. >> reporter: not to be outdone, an instant classic in the mecca

of basketball. >> are you kidding? >> reporter: nowell dazzling madison square garden. nowell turning his ankle and then turning heads with a record-breaking 19 assists. kansas state k.o.'d michigan state. >> the wildcats are headed for the elite eight. >> reporter: the other spot snatched by uconn in a blowout. gonzaga held off a late charge in a seesaw battle. the miami hurricanes men's team is looking to return to the elite eight. and the women's team hushed the crowd before knocking off indiana. they're playing in his first sweet 16 since 1992, boosted by the transfer of the social media sensation twins. >> getting to the sweet 16 is something we used to pray about. >> reporter: the pair have been pioneers in the new age of name, image and likeness, amassing

around 6 million followers on tiktok and instagram alone. don't think for a second they can't also hoop. what would you want to convey to people? >> don't listen people. don't put a label on somebody. the end of the day, continue to prove people wrong. >> reporter: now, it's time to let the chips fall where they may, with a final four field ready to take shape. amazingly, the university of miami is not the only school to have their men's and women's team playing in the sweet 16. you also have ucla, uconn and the university of tennessee. they've all done it, too. joe's alabama squad, they play later tonight. week and a half into this thing, we still have about seven to ten days to go. already, it's been one of the greatest ncaa tournaments we have seen on records. willie, back to you. >> amazing times at miami. florida atlantic, what a run. they're a good team. they're not a cinderella anymore. they're 34-3 with a good shot of making the final four.

sam brock in miami for us. coral gables. sam, thanks so much. professor glaude, we've got to talk about your princeton tigers playing tonight in the sweet 16 creighton. they are a cinderella as a 15 seed. for a team that handled purdue, the number one seed, there's no reason they can't beat creighton tonight. >> definitely, we have a chance. let's just say, let's just say something we all need to say. that is, isn't this a breath of fresh air, to experience the excitement, the spontaneity, just the exuberance of the tournament? and for an ivy league, i've been at princeton 22 years, to see the team get to the sweet 16, to see our campus alive, to see students cheering, it's been wonderful. i had to put on the orange and black, you know, just to say that, tonight, we're going to shock the world, willie. we're going to shock the world. >> you look very good in that tie, my friend, very good. joe, last night, some thrillers.

the kansas state game against michigan state at the garden. that went to overtime. gonzaga, late at night, some people might have been asleep when that one ended on the east coast, but they beat ucla. this gonzaga teem now for, gosh, almost 25 years, kind of came out of nowhere in terms of a basketball program. now, a powerhouse, back in the elite eight again after knocking off ucla last night. >> really unbelievable. what an ending to the gonzaga ucla game. we've talked about that shot from the logo, the paint of the logo. the kansas state-michigan state good day was an extraordinary game all the way through. this has been -- i mean, willie, this has been one of the most exciting, if not the most exciting march madness tournaments i've ever seen. you look at the teams that aren't in there now. the dukes, the kentuckys, the north carolinas, the giants are not in there. boy, how exciting to have teams

like princeton and fau there? yes, for people in tuscaloosa who haven't had a team go this far in quite a long time, very exciting for alabama fans, as well. >> yeah, they've got a really good team. maybe the favorite in the tournament. who knows? the way the tournament is going, they could lose tonight. we'll see. this event never disappoints. it is always good. fun to see if princeton can keep it rolling tonight. on the women's side, if you want to watch a game tonight, caitlin clark, the star at iowa, she is steph curry in women's basketball. she takes one dribble over half court, pulls up and drains threes. if you got time to check that game out, colorado and iowa. a lot of good ones tonight. villanova perhaps a sleeper in the tournament, as well. we'll be watching all of it today. ahead here, the michigan republican party is standing by a tweet comparing gun legislation to the holocaust. we'll get reaction to that and much more from michigan governor gretchen whitmer when she joins

us straight ahead on "morning joe." is eight minutes to get started. then work with professionals to assist your business with its forms and submit the application. go to getrefunds.com to learn more. you know, there's a thousand billionaires in america, it■s up from about 600 at the beginning of my term. but no billionaire should be paying a lower tax rate than a schoolteacher or a firefighter. i mean it! think about it. ♪ ♪ get directv with a two year price guarantee. when moderate to severe ulcerative colitis keeps flaring, put it in check with rinvoq, a once-daily pill. when uc got unpredictable, i got rapid symptom relief with rinvoq. and left bathroom urgency behind. check. when uc got in my way, i got lasting, steroid-free remission with rinvoq.

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representative buchanan of florida said our plan was reckless. guess how much he got in that program forgiven? $2.3 million. this is not a joke. can't make this stuff up. >> president biden last year taking on critics of his student debt forgiveness plan by highlighting republicans who were happy to accept government cash during the pandemic. very happy. that brings us to a new book entitled "poverty, by america," which highlights how the wealthiest americans receive 30% more in government subsidies than the poorest families. joining us now, the book's author, matthew desmond," sociologist at princeton and

president of the research lab, eviction and the housing crisis. talk more about the wealthier americans still benefitting from sometimes the very policies they complain about. >> that's right. the government spends a lot more money subsidizing affluence than alleviating poverty. if you count things like tax breaks and social insurance, the richest among us get a lot more help from the government than the poorest among us. >> matthew, this is an extraordinary book on so many different levels, particularly in this moment. i mean, talk about the way in which poverty is produced in the united states and sustained. i mean, you offer us this thick description and ready. why does poverty exist in the united states? >> this is a choice our country made. we tolerate exploitation in the labor market, the housing market. we tolerate a welfare state that's imbalanced. it gives most to the people who

have a lot already. we continue to be segregationists, drawing walls around others and hoarding opportunity. we need to tear down the walls. >> how do we talk about the roots of that? >> i think racism is certainly a root of that. the capitalism we've accepted in the country is not the capitalism we deserve. the book is a push for a different nation. capitalism that serves the people, not the other way around. >> so i always talk about this across the country. there is a sense in which there is a background condition of scarcity. >> yeah. >> there's another so much pie to go around. if we think we are going to remedy poverty, i got to lose something. how do we talk about poverty abolition when we think there's only so much pie to go around? >> we have to push back against the scarcity. >> professor to professor, a stat. if the richest can pay the taxes they owed, stop evading taxes, we as a nation could raise an additional $175 billion a year.

that's almost enough to bring everyone out of poverty. we can do this. >> matthew, you write in your chapter entitled "how we buy opportunity" that, quote, it cannot both be true that excluding poor people from high-opportunity communities and enrich the lives of the people inside the wall, while degrading the lives of the people outside of it. that tearing down the wall and welcoming the poor into those communities will come at no cost to the current residents. affluence allowed those residents to climb over the wall, and the wall protected and grew their affluence. as the sociologist tressie mcmillan cottom has put it, the families that can hoard do, and the neighborhoods in which they live benefit. sharing opportunities previously hoarded doesn't mean everyone wins.

those who have benefitted from the nation's excesses will have to take less so that others may share in the bounty. why is this so hard? especially in our policies that often, you know, when republicans are in power, they don't even push the poliies they complain about. >> i think many of us are open to this bargain. i think many of us don't want to be complicit in all this poverty around us. it diminishes all of us. i think that some of us who are secure and privileged will have to take a little less for us to abolish poverty in america. but we get a safer nation, a happier nation, a freer nation. i think a nation without poverty is a nation that has a different, more lush kind of prosperity. >> the new book is "poverty, by america," matthew desmond. thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. we appreciate it. still ahead on "morning joe, president biden has reached a

deal with our northern neighbors that would allow both countries to turn away asylum seekers who cross the border. john kirby joins us from candy to discuss the new plan. "morning joe" will be right back. while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market

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tiktok's massive reach while also addressing concerns about safety and security, saying tiktok will firewall protected u.s. user data from unauthorized foreign access. and will not be manipulated by any government. on wednesday, tiktok creator. >> we will protect the user data. >> reporter: tiktok's top executive under fire for over five hours. >> tiktok poses, as a mr. rogers neighborhood, but it acts like big brother. >> reporter: the hugely popular app, known for short videos like this, in the spotlight for this. >> what is your relationship with the communist party? >> reporter: ceo zhou chew answering questions about whether the app owned by byte dance, a chinese company, is a national security threat, given a chinese law that could allow the government to access user data. >> i have seen no evidence that the chinese government has accessed to the data. they have never asked us. we have not provided it. >> you know what, i find that, actually, preposterous. >> i have seen no evidence of

this happening. >> reporter: tiktok has 150 million users in the u.s. and a billion worldwide, many of them teenagers. the white house has given the company an ultimatum. sell the company or face a ban in the u.s., as the justice department and fbi investigate whether byte dance illegally surveilled journalists. >> has byte dance spied on american citizens? >> i don't think spying is the right way to describe it. >> reporter: another concern from both sides of the aisle, misinformation. >> the dangerous misinformation that you mentioned is not allowed on our platform. it violates them. >> i'm sorry to report, it is on your platform, though. >> congresswoman, i don't think i can sit here and say we are perfect in doing this. we do work very hard. >> zhou says tiktok's top priorities are protecting user safety, especially for teenagers, securing u.s. data and being a place for free expression. despite the company's reassurances, 43 states have already banned, restricted or are considering to ban tiktok on government devices.

>> so much of the community i've created is on tiktok. that's what i've devoted my life to working and creating for. >> reporter: duncan joseph creates tiktok videos for his 4.5 million followers. do you think the lawmakers who are asking the questions today that definitely have never used the app, haven't even seen it working. and you can tell. because one lawmaker even called it tic tac. >> tic tac. >> tick tyuír >> reporter: in the know or not, lawmakers believe the data xd concern is real. >> i want to say this to all tht we're old and out of touch and don't know what we're talking çó zárying to take away your favorite app. you may not care that your data is being accessed now, but there will be one day when you do care about it. >> savannahok sellers reporting there. claire, you have been in these hearing rooms many times. it is striking for many reasons to watch that hearing but not the÷n least of which is the

agreement, the bipartisan agreement that something has to be done here why if you talk to experts ite1xd looks liket( con and the president willñi agree a ban.t( >>t-h"on't think the president act of congress so we'll test this bipartisanship. we'll see if this bipartisanship holds up. theq thing that was reallyt( interesting to meq:%m■ in the hearing the guy this guy has so much trouble is he i]qavoidedfá and no answers. he was the definition ofñrxdfáx evasive. very polished but very evasive. by the way, isn't it ironic that he sat there andé and certitude saidok that it waa private companyut control i-ñ but the headlinesu

screaming china says no to it is -- he had job. he reminded me of dr. oz when he had a badok day. sometimes people are so convinced they don't realize in ai] congressional hearing it wot go well if you won't answer a yes or no question. this next story, afáe1 form cong2qáo joe biden running again inñr 20 is now supportingxd his potenti re-electiont( campaign. last augudñ while new york dapá carolyn maloney running for a newi] congressional seat e was asked ifñi biden should run again. her response off the record, he is not running again. answu■ on the record she said he should not run again.

now she says he's earnedfá anotr term. cookingfj$u)u$ gas. never seen a record like this. adding that many people arefá living productive lives in the face of advancing agefá sa] quote, if you look at biden he's too busy to di%ñá and that is i guess one way to look ate1 it. i thinkçó americans are living longer. pño1 but also i think joe biden ran a third timer( many people though he is desperate. i don't think he wanted to run. i think he felt he had to and may feel he hasñr tor >> i think he loves ther second of all,qñ even though he may have felt like he had to he had been want to have thati] tie in front ofr

decades. i think all3w■ these republican that say he is too old and that, murdoch in hisr buffett in his 90s. it is true you cannot count somebody out as they getlpfá ol. i think joe biden has shown that he can get people to come together and get important stuff across the finishxd line. whether the economy cooperates help him next year that xdremai to be seen. they haveok a tricky path with e bank stresses and inflat-7l still while lower higv%t than it should be. >> the white house isxd keenly

aware that the i]president's ag will be an issue intr it was in 2022q and the voters said that's okay with them. to the point there's economicxd worries that the west wing is nervousok about. in terms of timing on 2hd4■ thoe come next month, maye1 or june. democrats and they say the republican field has just started to sortfá itselfi] out they have time. there's one thing they are nervous about. there's polling about democrats who think joe biden is doing a good job but aren't sure they want himu because of age. they are worried about voter enthusiasm. ñ eddie, thank you.

still ahead onñr "morning joe," a next guest is among the most influential governors in the nation. democrat gretchen whitmer of michigan joins us live at the topt( of the hour.ñi before break, i had the chance risky and bold career move taking a leavee1 of absence fro stanford university toxd become pfizer's chief medal officerc al in the middle of the pandemic. she shares her advice on advancing women to leadership roles in the health sectorñie1 along the5 >> one of the things that was important and i would give advice to women is to explore. don't be afraid tofá explore. i think that's one of thei] tsuu i didn't do when i was younger.

paying it forward. i think it is important for us mentorship is anotherfá thing. part of the teaching has been the career mentorship.fáfá?;?÷ >> absolutely. many male influenced my."■ care. my advocated for me so i think that it is important.d >> a lot of the topics at thet( 30/50 summit. we spoke aboutq her career, how to close the global health equity gap, mentorship and much more. #)q(i out theu straight up." we'll be right back with much more "morning joe."r

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...and save at trelegy.com. lomita feed is 101 years old. when covid hit, we had some challenges. i heard about the payroll tax refund that allowed us to keep the people that have been here taking care of us. learn more at getrefunds.com. i screwed up. to keep the people that have been here tamhm. care of us. i got us t-mobile home internet. now cell phone users have priority over us. and your marriage survived that? you can almost feel the drag when people walk by with their phones. oh i can't hear you... you're froze--

ladies, please! you put it on ai me when you pass our house. i was trying to work. we're workin' it too. yeah! work it girl! woo! i want to hear you say it out loud. well, i could switch us to xfinity. those smiles. that's why i do what i do. that and the paycheck. ♪♪ it is the toudq of the thir hour of "morning joe." the sun has come upw3 inxd washington. welcome back to "morning joe." it is e1qfriday, march 24th. it is moreñi than 48 hours sinc the michigan republihc' partyñi tweeted this meme comparing gun legislation to the holocaust and the gop is defending it. we'll talk tow3 michiganfá gove

gretchen whitmerr plus, donald trump's potentiall rivals in 2024 are running in tá the same problem they had inñit 2016. eugene robinson is here to explain that.ñi along with eugene, jonathan have the host of theq podcast o brand with donny deutsch, donny deutsch on this friday. we'lli] start with former president trump spending most of the day yesterday rage postingé on his social media ptb it started with an alllp capscñt about manhattan dist d.a. a sore fact animal and compared the legal system toc rs0%■ and china but worse. in anothe"ñi all-capji postko■ d

to be i]100% innocent while try] to rile up supporters writing the country is beingc destroyed as they tell us to beñr peacefu. later he wouldñr call for i]bra and others to quote be removedñ devil. trump was still at it earlier this morning with a post around 1:00 a.m. suggesting thatt( dea and destruction could follow if he were arrested. up here. author of "the bigñi lie" becau i'm seeing and feelingfáxd paras to january 6 in this language and this unhinged mentality. yes, i know no one is shocked that this has come from donald

trump, but again, it is a danger inçó many waysçó given what we seen has happened in trump's w3 tenure. >> we should be paying attention. this is very dangerous stuff. he spente1 mostzv■ of yesterdayg racistw3 and anti-semitic trope to attack the prosecutor in manhattan withq no evidencefá o that. wellñr after midnight last nigh suggestingfá death and çó destruction. this is a warning, a threat, a we know that he has riled upe1 e supporters before and acted out with violence in his name on january 6. this hast8■ happened before and there's real fear it coulda5■ happen.ñilp donny deutsch, you have knowna5 donald trump for aq longñr time.

there's reportingi] this week about how he would welcomei] be■ arrested and would be good ok publicity, smile for the cameras and clear that an arrest might help him short term politically in the gop primary. certainlyok notñi in the genera election but even so this is a man that clearly and the postsç show wants nothing to doxd with being charged with a crime. >> i don't t(rfi it gives him onelp vote.jf the base loves it. he losses t the independents and the suburbanr reverend nailedxd it in the las f1 orend nailedxd it in the las this is a frightened man. this is añi caged animal who'so backed in the corner.

he is unhinged. what is soq fri he went through the disgusting d anti-semitic,çó racialv#%uutáy the fact that other republicans including desantis that the number one challenger does the sameq thing, theçóok same -- th the stunning part. we know trumpñr is insane. lostq his mind. he is shriveling away.q the ability to everi]q reallyñr top president again isçó not an option. it is the othere1i] republicanst jump on the losing, disgusting formula doesn't make any sense. can5a■ you imaginexd if desantid the same way he handled it really well talking e1about, lo,

i don't know 4j= stuff about porn stars. to say, hey look, hate is not okay. you know? wouldn'- thatñr be just -- the ñ would be president. i don't understand it. if any republican particularly a guy like him and not in his repertoire and deck of card but sayingr the answer thisa5■ guy÷w3 would favorite. that's what i don't get. the moronicfá republicansñi tha downw3t( the same rabbit hole. >> what if another republican had the courage to condemn violenceñre1 and anti-semitism, racism? they're still afraid of him even the people that say they want to run againstñi him.ñ. they see what he posted overnight aboutñi death and

destruction coming and say nothing. fear him. >> they don't push back and go along with it. they go along withw3 thei] soro the anti-semitic trope.xd not many have gone with the animal trope about alvintpybrag. for donny, a friend of mine, column cohen said that the word paranoid has no meaning ffb■i]ç blacks and jews. because it's notñioki]e1 parano they're really afterfá you. you know, the crazy thing, the insane thing is thatfáq the peo trying■i to beat donald trump f the republic say they want tor the republican nomination are piling on in support of him against a potential indictment.p

nikki haley, timñr scott, mike pence. even ron desantis who managed to get in aq t(snarky line but sti in the end goesfá straight to t and how it is açó+■ political prosecution. do these guysi] really want the nomination?é@■ because all they're doing is encouraging the republican base toñr rally around donald trump. guess what. that's whatu they ain't going to beat him thate1 way. that'sñr for sure. >> for sure. all of fáthis, many would argue what trump has done to the country, the fire hose of falsehoods, the shocking behavior, the hatred ledçó to my different versions across the country and some of itw3ñi pervg local an stateçó politicá]

standing by its comments comparinglp proposed gun okrefo reg. wednesday with the caption reading in part history has shownçó us that theçóñiokok fir government does wanting total control over the people isñixd disarmfá them. disarmfá them. floorx> tis not okay. it is far fro i am a jew who has been to çói]

auschwitz. i have beenxd to -- i am a jew o stood at the mountainñit(u ash and bone inñit( t(auschwitz >> we have a colleague adz2#ssing the floor. >> joining us now democratic governor gretchen whitmer of michigan. governor, that post is still up. yourq response to republicans i your stateñi doubling down on h1 and using holocaust imagery to express it? >> it is depraved, dangerous and it isfá something that we have t to fight backt( on. i was listening to "morning joe" ti often anlñ the factfá that we are the tent state in theq largest michigan hasw3 the ninth highest reporte anti-semitict(ok attacks.v

this isñi 100% linked.ñi this is a dangerous moment. that's why whether it isxd thew former president or islpw3 the current chair of the michigan republican party it is wrong. i'm glad you're highlighting it but it'sñr a real threat. >> to add to how twistede1xdxd is, if it is possible, if it is possible for it to be more twisted, this is in response to gun legislation. we face as a country an epidemic of schoolxd shootings and shoosstj across the country to the pointlp where they happen almost daily. mass shootings. can you explain the legislation that this was in response to? >> yes. something as simple as secure storage and background checks. workingfá to get done here in michigan.xdlplplp

we have seen theq michigan part use the languagexd to undermine that. community,r barriers between women and their decisions about the body, repealed the retirement tax. we are on the cusp of gun safety legislation and you see this bipartisan support and they don't like it and all they do is spew hate and misinformation. >> governor, good morning. i see the spartans helmet over your shoulder. condolences aboutjf the game la night and what a run for the game thatfá lifted up the campu and the state after which ties in to what you are talking about. three thing that isfá you proño3 backgroundu

andxd extreme i1ññi 79 to 89% o talk about some of the progress because the legislature has made progress on the issueç.z are!u■ those bills moving forwa and do you thinkó[■ they'll be in your state? >> they will be law in the state. theñi voters roundly rejected t conspiracy theorists and the and violentq@u$etoric. theyñi rejected thatfá for the t timg9■ 40u democrats control allw3 branchsf government. only fourçóñr times in 130 year. we are doingjf what we said and continueñi to move forward. thank you for the mention of the spartans.ñr i was so proud of how they played.

>> greatñi game. >> this is gene robinson. i'm a wolverine but i@htáqó for the spartansfá last night. a greate1 run.xdçó the reason you are able to do what you are doing now one1 gun election and took control of both houses of the michigan state legislature. one would think that that would be somewhat instructive to the republican party in michigan yet nt them in the opposite direction. what happened to a sensible, party that one might have i] "tp'd could talk to? hu$ey seem to have gone completely off a cliff. >> gene, you might remember the old oldmobile commercial, this

is not my father's republican party. he worked in both administrations and for decades not foundt( a home in the republican party. probably doesn't hurt that his daughter is anfá elected democr either but thee1 gop inlp michi used to be a thoughtful fá and rightxd now the head of thea and that's why i think it's so important to keep trying to make space at the table for the reasonable t(p,■republicans, pe that don't feel atñi home in th at the moment.ñi we have to getq things done. >> we t■ are a long way from gerald ford's republican michigan the grand rapids republicans that you could always count on

the moreú i'm -9■wondering, are there som republican that isqp5=u to work withñr despite the insanity that gripped the party÷ apparatus? joe biden is able to successfully pass a piece of xd bipartisan legislation after another and republicans■k work with him. in michigan where the republicans seemxd to have gone off the side of the cliff are with you and work with democrats together?t( >> yeah. there are some. i wish fredxd uptone1 was still office but we have found whethek it'si] expanding g#óxdçólgbtq c. on gun safexd storage gistxd th week we hadt( the minority lead in the house vote for it.

ilp didn'tok knowe1 he would. that was still on the books to make it impossibleñi for women exercise the full range of reproductivejf choices we had republican votes on that.r i'll continue to make spacew#óñ who arefá genuinely interested solvingfv!i=1m■xd andfá we have those in the community that areu helpful. we have 2,500 newçó jobs with fd building a plant in marshall, the ugliness will not stand.'8y% >> all right. >> michigan governor, túa))hváu very much. >> by the way, probablyçó shouldn't sayq this. we have good friends inxdq kans. we were cheering for the spartans last night. almost goté@■q there. thank you so much for being with ws,j♪ñ governor. >> thank you.

all right.r donny deutsch, you have talked about thiswm+■ already. i just againñi wonder when thez fever will lift. not bec interest or the country's best interest. for the fever to lift fromñr th republicans because if the republicans keep going in the direction they will keep losing. i wonder ifi] you really wantvx party winning elections that says absolutely nothing when the president of the united states+ talks about death and destruction for possibly being tát(jju$úhn$(t&háhp &hc% if the president is talking aboutc animals andd international jewishñi bankers. as a jewish man you grew up learning about the ñiñranti-sem tropes aroundq the world for hus

yeah,çó anti-semitic tropesxd t hitler and other dictators preyed upon to gain power. so i'm curious. will -- do you ( republicans learn thsc !s añiñid end? we heard it from laura ingram a couple nights ago. stop talking about the fixedxd election. you have "the wall street journal." i have seen "national review" i have seen "national review" stuff saying stop withwkqi] craziness. and then points we disagree with but still at leastfá it can be e guardrails of americant( democracy. are they ever going to figure this out? >> the cast of characters right now the answer is we see it. showing the hand and the playbook. i wonder if i was somebody who

was looking for a candidate to back, i don't know the name but if somebody came forward and said5a■ basically, u you know? this is a losing s7■formula.f:w this is not right. this is wrong. fundamentally right and wrong. violence is wrong. hate is wrong. racism is wrong. that will ring the bell withçó u overwhelming majority of voters in the republican party. they playçó to the 20%. i understand the primaryñit( process. bravery is one thing that's missing. right now. we seeçó the gallery out there. it is notñ áq right now. to answerçó to the question,q j they stillfx(%11■u another losing cycle but that's the answer. a person who is brave who says that hate is bad.xd

here's what i stand for. it is not complicated. >> i think it could be mitt i] romney. >> do you think mittçó can get more than -- i don't knowxd if it's such a relief to hear it among those so infected and i mean in congress especially but somebodyñi has t stand up. even if it costs them what it costs them, it is too painful. look at çóñithis. it is too t(painful. >> obviously -- >> nott( one person -- >áú!=9 >> ron desantis. certainly wouldn't say that. >> but whent( it comesr constitution, ruleq of law, democracy. >> no, no. >> you can say there are people with decency but there are people that lack the political character tofá stand up.

>> i wouldn't put sununu in|■çó there and brian kemp. >> stood up to trump not making politá1■ sense to do that. yeah. but we are just talking about people that stood up to donald trump. donald trump is likelyq to get indicted in georgiaqxd in part because kemp andxd raffensberge did stand up. mike pence, maybe nob he stood ñrup,w3glp zla%■ think it is the political courage to standzv■çó up. this morning, thefá politicale1 decencyfá to say when donald trp says therexd will be death and destruction if he is charged with ai] misdemeanor fore1 ille he payingd

an election that somebody is sent to jail for, thist( mornin this would be a really good morning to condemn that violent rhetoric. but lpagain, i will say ofxdt( people upa5■ on the board whoht say that?ñ you brought up romney. it is so clear and obvious. to be brave at this point is not a riskyt(u the ironic thing is a lot of times bravery takes courage. it ise1t( a no brainer. it is there. i talk tolp republicans where ty kind of go back and forth. that's what theyñr are starving an it is the barok is so low. >> normal. >> so xdobvious. >> i would say on that board 5ñ not in a position. i think for a million different

reasons and did the right thing. chris sununu stepped up a little bit. asa hutchinson. i'm talking about what isok rig and wrong and freaking saying it. they can't. they haven't. and theyt( won't.ñi donnyñi ande1xd eugene, thank y being on this r happy friday. willie? >> sa. now a potential flash point% nato is adding critical power t] defend the gas lines off the coas((jt nor ware. joining us is tomçó costello wh joined a nato patrol on guard against a potential attack. tom, good e1morning. >> reporter: cold, bitter, awful eñ this is a very, very concerning area where russia and nato ships are coming up against each other.çó+■qfá

take a close look. exclusive video from the norwegian air force of what it says is a russian nuclear t( submarine's periscope, peeking d above the water, right over t( ipelines water, right over t( in the north sea.ó[■t)ussian wa passing through sensitive waters between norway and scotland.ñiq for the norwegian navy, high we spent three days, two nights on a priority nato assignment q( with a norwegian ship watching over the vulnerable drilling lp platforms thousands of miles of] pipelines, and the maze of ó[■ internet and telecom lines that stretch from europe to america. the concern russia could one day pipeline.ñi it's 2:00 in the morning here on the north sea. the wind is howling.qi] the seas are rough, and it is very cold.çóe1 patrol around that platform on behalf of nato, looking for ñi!■ saboteurs or unusual russian acti6h;v it was last september when xd

someone blew up the nord stream gas pipeline running from russi■ so far no conclusive proof of who did it. but nato says russia has since increased its naval activity in norway's economic waters.q and an unusual interest in your gas and oil pipelines and ñr infrastructure? >> definitely.çó they're around this area more than once. they're going back and forth.e1ó they're following the pipeline. so they have suspicious activity. r >> reporter: this month, nato c has been holding show of force exercises in the far north as norway defends its 123-mile land border with zu+sia.ñr right across the border russia's biggest naval base. this is murmansk here? >> murmansk, and it is perhaps the world's largest xd concentration of nuclear weapons.xdçóe1xde1xd >> reporter: vice admiral

anderson, the commander of the russian navy. unpredictable russian activity. >> they have had some maneuvers that i would describe as more aggressive. >> reporter: nato helicopters çó dropped sonar buoys listening for russian subs. norway's foreign minister says the world now recognizes how xd critical its oil and gas fields are to the global economy. >> that we really need to protect the whole infrastructurr system, and also, the installations at sea. so we are prepared for everything. w3lp >> nato warship fox trot 333, this is whiskey 342, over. >> reporter: we saw the new urgency as our ship was pulled into a secret nato operation. so off of our port side, we havá just now had visitors. three nato warships have shown up. one, two, three.q helicopters in the air right next to that very important norwegian gas platform. this is about sending a message3 to russia, nato is on guard, on patrol, and takes this very

seriously. latform y. out here, the head of nato ñ announced the alliance will protect north sea oil and gas. c r;5mu)qq't putinñl+á$r' t( his attempt to use energy as a weapon. >> reporter: with war raging in ukraine, the stakes in this forbidding expanse of ocean are very hig(iy thd war in ukraine undermined trust they had with!u■ moscow, probab for decades to come. keep in mind these two countries share a border. used to communicate5a■6z■ regul1 right now most of the communication is cut off. >> tom b.■costello,ó[■ thank yo much. still ahead onu could curb the use ofçó tiktok d instagram by children andxd tee. we'll talk about thev implicationsñi of that legislation. plus, former ohioó[■ governor

kasichi] knows a thing or two about going toe to toe with donald trump. he joins us ahead tbo■ talkq ab the state of the republican party ahead ofi] 2024. >> before that. csv4ayrñ little >> always excited about this. >> sunday. >> right? >> my slippers. papa, papa. >> what does uncle willie have? >> uncle willie. >> for jack and the other "sunday today" family, what do ? >> another bowl of porridge it t)q's novel. warms up by thefá fire. watches "sunday today" and excited because this weekend i have a favorite. the great nathan lane is my guest. >> my lord! >> jack will love this. >> emmy and tony winner. he'sq got a new play and acclaimed new play called

"pictures from home" in the studio 54 theater. studio 5zxd studio 54 under dif circumstances. eddie xdmurphy's 21st birthdayq party. so much fun to talk about thati play and the career and theçó bd cage. natá "sunday today" over on nbc and "morning joe" is coming right back. ♪ it's a new dawn, ♪ ♪ it's a new day... ♪ ...stop settling. ♪ ...and i'm feelin' good. ♪ start a new day with trelegy. no once-daily copd medicine has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy makes breathing easier for a full 24 hours, improves lung function, and helps prevent future flare-ups. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed.

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♪♪ñi did you see the story last night? breaking nwwq. utah's republican governor spencer cox signed two --cc i think --■i prettyw3 landmarkr mediaxd social bills yesterday d to limit teenagers'ok access to tiktok and instagram. one of the measures that utah is now implementing makes it the first state in theñi nation tox prohibitt( platforms from havin

users under 18e1 with accounts unless they havet( the consent a parent or guardian. also it is also going to require parents toxd have access to anyp their children'sfá posts, messa1 and another bill that stopsñi media companies -- this isñi really important -- for doingçó features to cause a minor totvó form anfáe1lp addiction to thex platform. also the focus ofi] advertisingo young people,jf as well. that'st( -- >> this is just the beginning. red states are doing this. california. a school district that'sñd]xdi] the social media companies. in utah, the social media companiesr legislation is ready to sue. we both havee1 kids and see

amongst them, thefá friends and the friend's friends -- kids -- being hurt by this. this has caused anñr impact, serious impact to5a■r health.t( inn the screens were the only way to do anything. this is the begin jg the fact that the states trying to enact measures like this like thisxd utah social media banned!u■ 8:0 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. they arexd scrollingxd and scrog all nightr impact and lack of sleep goesfá on. the sociallpq media companies w push back but this is the real big issue of the generation. like big tobacco. c&a&dren's age which, again, run

a ■h8qq gamut where you don't s■ how it's impacting the friends,v theq classmate, theq communitie in such in añr devastating way. >> yeah. no question aboutçóa5■ it. the thing&overnight 1xt0 p.m. to 6:00 a.m., wew3w3 bought thed fashioned alarm clocks at target to get up. what's interesting is the ok-ml crisis. it is at( crisis. republicans inxdñi utah, democr and republicans yesterday where the ceo of tiktok grilled. problem and something has to be done.çó in that congressional hearing but thelpe1 impact of social me on teenagers even among

republicans whofáe1 maybe in th past would have saide1 the government can't step in to a business but saying this is too important. we have to do somethingt( about this. éulated tobacco because tobacco scientifically damaging the healthe1 ofjf americans. this is scientifically damaging thev alth of americans. deeply fáoffensive. when people reach out to us about nothing you might as well be fromñit( thexd sackler famil saying thee1fá opioids, actuall they take away the pain why not addictive. m you see it. m social media companies see it. they will have to wake up to the reality. no, we won't read it. you can read it online. >>t( bottom line, soçó addictiv

what you will find --q ifá pred mostt(q parents discover this. ■ ipaz( and then doing it is addictive.a computer.÷j if you can protect the kids and keep them in a bubbleq the bottm line is there's a generation of kids thatfá are being impaóñbd this. the inability to connect and the other side effects. yes, side effects of social media is a mental health crisis. former governor kasich joe." lomita feed is 101 years old. when covid hit, we had some challenges. i heard about the payroll tax refund that allowed us to keep the people that have been here taking care of us. learn more at getrefunds.com.

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coming up, new details on american air strikes in syria.

administration's top officials ""t)etis us live straight ahead on

membersr oversight committee are scheduled3w■ to tour a jail in washington where defendants charged with crimesxd relatedg the january 6th insurrection are being held. will notr marjorie taylor greene has january 6 defendants tweeting she will leave the group calling it a bipar('m9■ñr delegation bu our next guest explains why it is a bipartisan visit. joininglpe1 us nq7÷ is jasmine

democratic members of congress to visit that jail today andñr joined by congresswoman summer o lee of pennsylvania. "%"táhe way i u sort ofú the republicans so when they tell the story of what happened of today and see that your version of the truth will be there, as well. do i have that right? >> absolutely. listen. we know thatw3 the maga republicans have a problem with the truth. that's why we have coddling the januarylp 6the1 insurrections. i'm just a freshman. unlike what so many ofq my colleagues experienced. the fact toq goxd inxd and thes murder, they want to have a conversation about how comfortable they are, about

whether or not their ipadsq are time on the ipads.x; as açó publicq defender, they k nothing about what bad conditions are. i'm going to clarify that after i can see with my eyes. in the state of texas we don't even have air-conditioning in our prisons. we've had inmates die from overheating. you know, the idea that these folks somehow should engage in a real conversation now that january 6th is mostly white folks are saying these accommodations don't work for them when black and brown folks have been trying to have a real conversation around what prison accommodation should look like if we are going to be humane is laughable. i look forward to this visit and reporting out on the

accommodations and whether or not they are sub par. >> congresswoman, thinking about trump and how he handles the media, i'm curious what the plan is here, especially as you put it these maga republicans try and do this tour or whatever else they're going to do, how do you make sure you don't validate exactly what they're doing and bring more light to it? >> yeah. here's the deal. we know that marjorie taylor greene and crew already have a large microphone. we know that the media is going to cover anything they do. the problem is that if no one were to show up, then there is no one to counter and there's absolutely no one to tell the truth about what was going on behind bars. we won't be allowed to have our cell phones. so our truth will be whatever it is that we recall it to be.

just like they have said time and time again, that this was a tour, this wasn't an insurrection, you know, we need to make sure that someone is there to tell an actual account of what the historical nature of this visit really showed. we also know that there's some choir they have on itunes or something. these folks are not being treated like the average inmates. unfortunately, what i fully anticipate we're going to see is yet another level of privilege. my job is to make sure that i report the truth. my job is to also hold them accountable. we've got our appropriations process going on right now. we actually are submitting for a community project investment that would update one of the jails in my district, a jail that hasn't had an update since the '80s. we're talking about an intercom system that is failing inmates when they need to communicate about a health care issue for

them. we are actually trying to make sure we're giving the basic needs in my district. i look forward to their support on this. i also want to make it clear that in this country if we want to have a real conversation, let's have a robust conversation. let's talk about george floyd, let's talk about sandra bland, who was taken into custody in the state of texas for a traffic violation and somehow ended up dead. we can have a real conversation. before i start to say what is or isn't going on in this jail, i've got to see it myself. i'm not here to validate there's anything problematic, because i can guarantee you that at a very minimum they have air-conditioning. >> yeah. again, here you have people who beat the hell out of cops with american flags. their families saying they died because of the rioters and

they're bitching and moaning about their ipads in jail. you're absolutely right. hope you'll come back. >> john heilemann, again, i'm not repeating myself, i'm just stating facts. they put another brick in the wall, these republicans. another brick in the wall, you stack them up and it's the wall they build to keep away from the suburban voters they keep losing. look what republicans are doing. again, they keep adding to the list. just in the last 24 hours you've had a former president who's the head of their party right now, the most popular person in their party threatening violence

against a district attorney with a baseball bat. you have him promising death and destruction if he gets charged with a misdemeanor. death and destruction. you have republican members of congress going to praise rioters, people that beat the hell out of cops with baseball bats. you've got republican senators who still haven't taken it back. republican senators who say they wish our military were more like russia's military. you have another top republican who is probably running for president who actually is quoting kremlin talking points this past week when he said that russia's bloody invasion of ukraine, that the icc has said constitutes war crimes is nothing more than a border

dispute. i could keep going. but this is just like in the last week. they sit here and they wonder why they've lost every election since 2016. >> remember when trump said there was going to be so much winning they were going to be tired of winning? seems like the opposite is true. they keep walking the plank for donald trump. i'll say the one thing i know we've got to get out here. the thing that's popped out from that last truth social post of his when he calls alvin bragg, i believe, a degenerate psychopath. everything donald trump says is either projection or confession. i think you can imagine which one degenerate psychopath qualifies for in that formulation.

>> you have to wonder. john heilemann, thank you very much for being on this morning. coming up next, one of our next guests ran the labor department under president bill clinton. we'll talk with robert rice about the recent bank failures and who he says is to blame for rigging the system. i'm a vegas hotel. i know what you're thinking - it's cool, i don't want anything too serious either. just a fun, spontaneous thing. i'm looking for someone who will let loose. dress up a little. see a show. order the steak and the lobster. some people say i'm excessive, but who cares. i'm just looking for a saturday to remember, and a sunday by the pool.

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age is just a number, and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv ♪♪ beautiful shot of san francisco this morning. it is 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, maybe time to wake up and get to work. 9:00 a.m. on the east coast. with us for the hour, former white house secretary jen psaki joining us. and jonathan lemire is back with us as well. >> we've been sorting through just some of the biggest tv

events in history. i talked about how more people saw jen psaki's debut show than saw the beatles. also beat farm aid. believe this, live aid. you know, queen. >> that's amazing. a lot of people all over the world saw it. didn't hold a candle to jen psaki's debut. >> you sound like my mother. [ laughter ] >> handed a bulletin here also. nielson came up and crunched some new numbers, beat the mash finale and the episode of dallas. the hits just keep coming.

>> now people have to come wash show two on sunday. that's key. we don't want to be a one-hit situation. come watch on sunday at noon. >> no pressure. you already had one out of every three tv sets in america tuned into you last saturday. a lot of stuff to talk about this morning. i do want to start with that utah law passed sort of limiting kids' ability to be on social media all the time. >> you said earlier there's also the importance of parents having the autonomy over their kids and having better parental control. i will just say it's like asking kids not to breathe air. social media is how they operate. it's how they talk. social media is every part of their day and night.

it is impossible to, in my opinion, exert parental control over something that all kids are using to function. that's what it's become. it's become dysfunctional. what utah is doing is a good try. i don't know how it's going to be executed trying to keep kids off social media from 10:30 at night until 6:00 in the morning. >> it will be fascinating. people are always, oh, we can't do this, we can't do that. you know what, try. just try. i had somebody tell me, it's moral panic. really? whoever's saying that doesn't have a kid. >> exactly. >> does not have a kid and hasn't had a kid in about 20 years because it's been a real challenge. also, syria back in the news. >> it is. president biden ordered air strikes in syria overnight after an american contractor there was killed in a drone attack near a

coalition base. five service members and another contractor were also injured with u.s. intelligence now saying that drone was of iranian origin. peter alexander has the latest. >> reporter: the u.s. coalition base was attacked in northern syria, an american contractor killed by a suicide drone. five u.s. service members and another american contractor were also wounded in the attack thursday. overnight, the pentagon saying u.s. intelligence believes the drone was of iranian origin. president biden landing in canada late thursday, ordering u.s. retaliation with what the pentagon describes as precision air strikes, hitting facilities in eastern syria used by groups affiliated with iran's islamic revolutionary guard. defense secretary lloyd austin saying, we will take all necessary measures to defend our

people and will always respond at a time and place of our choosing, adding no group will strike our troops with impunity. two of the american service members were treated on site, while three others and the wounded contractor were evacuated to medical facilities in iraq. since january 2021, there have been 78 attacks against facilities housing u.s. troops in iraq and syria. u.s. central command says most of the attacks involving drones and rockets were carried out by iran or iranian backed proxies. syria has yet to offer an official response to the latest iranian-backed attack, an iran that biden administration officials call the largest security threat in the middle east has not reacted to the u.s.'s retaliatory strikes. >> now there is news another base used by the u.s. military in syria has come under rocket attack today. we'll be following that. >> let's bring in national security council coordinator for

strategic communication at the white house, retired rear admiral john kirby, joining us from ottawa, canada. 78 attacks from iran since 2001. maybe we need to step up our response. what's going on? >> it's clear these iran-backed groups don't want to see the united states' presence in iraq or syria and they're acting out to try to limit our ability to continue to go after isis in both those countries and to try to force our hand to leave. as you'll hear from us today and tomorrow, that mission against isis is still viable and still important and we're going to stay at that. >> continuing to supply drones

that target u.s. servicemen and women and kill americans. >> first of all, they paid a price last night with these retaliatory strikes that the president ordered and they'll continue to pay that kind of cost if they continue to strike and attack our facilities and our people. we're not going to shy away from protecting them as best we can. in the aggregate, what i would tell you is that we're also going to stay vigilant to all of iran's destabilizing activities. today we're talking about their support for these militant groups. they're continuing to supply drones to putin to continue to slaughter ukrainians. they're threatening maritime shipping and they have a burgeoning ballistic missile program that could threaten their neighbors throughout the middle east. the united states is going to stay focused on the greater aggregate problem of iran's destabilizing behavior by making sure we have a strong military

presence in the middle east. you heard from the commander yesterday when he was testifying about his readiness posture and how vigilant he is staying to that threat. >> as you just mentioned, another base used by united states military in syria was attacked as well. is there a concern this is some kind of concerted effort that american troops might be under attack today? >> two things here. we have suffered attacks from these militant groups for some time in various formats. what you saw last night is very much an initial response reaction by some of these militant groups. it is not uncommon when we take a retaliatory strike like this, for them to answer back with some rocket fire. these were largely ineffective. nobody was hurt, no u.s. casualties at all. it was sort of an instinctual

reaction. that said, we obviously are going to stay vigilant to any other responses from iran or from their militant groups in syria, in iraq. we're staying very, very closely in tune with that and monitoring it closely. >> admiral good morning, it's jonathan here. obviously you are in ottawa. the president is as well, his first visit to canada since taking office. we know he's going to address parliament later today and he'll hold a news conference with prime minister trudeau. the deal has been reached to close a loophole about asylum seekers at unofficial ports of entry on the border. give us a rundown, please. >> there are more people on the move in the western hemisphere right now than since world war ii. it's staggering and historic. of course, our two countries are facing the impacts of that. i have absolutely every expectation that prime minister trudeau and president biden will talk about migration challenges.

i'm not going to get ahead of the specifics or what they might say when it comes to the cameras after those meetings. but we are working with the canadians to try to deal with this from a regional perspective across the hemisphere. we have to take a wholistic view that will be front and center on the agenda today, as will climate change, as will trade and boosting our ability to bring clean energy jobs here to north america to deal with a transition to a clean energy economy. i have every expectation they'll spend some time talking about ukraine and how canada and the united states continue to support ukrainian forces in the field. i expect haiti will come up. the situation there remains dire. canada and the united states continue to provide humanitarian and economic assistance to haitian authorities. of course, we're still talking to the canadians as well as other allies and partners about the viability of what might be an international security force

under u.n. auspices to go down there and try to help alleviate some of the security challenges on the island. >> john kirby, it's jen psaki. i want to ask you about the iran nuclear deal, which of course donald trump pulled out of, took away the visibility for the united states. obviously that doesn't look quite viable at this point. but where is the president's head at thinking about what the path forward is for that. is there a path forward for that, especially given these attacks? >> great question, jen. right now the iran deal is really not on our agenda. we are much more focused on trying to hold the regime accountable for the way they're treating their people and for supporting putin in ukraine, sending drones to kill innocent ukrainians. of course, we're also focused on the larger state of destabilizing activities for iran and the region including

their support for these militant groups. given the way the regime is responding and the fact that they larded up their conversations, it was clear they weren't negotiating in good faith. that said, the president still believes iran should not have nuclear arms capability. he still believes diplomacy is the best way to prevent that. right now diplomacy is not the path forward, so he has made it clear to the administration that we've got to make sure we have the kinds of capabilities in place to deal with it outside of diplomacy if it comes to that. hopefully it won't. by the way, congrats on a great show. we're proud of you. >> white house national security council spokesperson john kirby, thank you. that was for jen psaki. that's very nice. thank you, admiral. >> thank you.

to other news now, the manhattan district attorney's office is slamming top house republicans for launching an investigation into the d.a.'s investigation of trump. in a letter obtained by nbc news yesterday, a general counsel for the d.a.'s office responded to a gop request from earlier in the week, which called on district attorney alvin bragg to testify before congress about his ongoing probe. the chairs of the judiciary, oversight and administration committees claimed that the d.a.'s office was, quote, about to engage in an unprecedented abuse of prosecutorial authority. they say that was happening by indicting trump. but the only person who ever claimed with certainty that trump was going to be indicted let's all remember was donald trump himself in this social media post last weekend.

in her response yesterday, the counsel for the d.a.'s office wrote, the republican request was an unprecedented inquiry into a pending local prosecution that only came after donald trump created a false expectation that he would be arrested. she added, the request, quote, treads into territory very clearly reserved to the states. jonathan lemire, first of all, donald trump's reaction, so many parallels to his behavior before january 6th, which some may say is a bit frightening and also threatening to those who are part of this process and in this case the local process, a possible misdemeanor, possibly more, the d.a. being in my estimate threatened by donald trump on his social media page. >> we know that donald trump's words have inspired violence before. it happened on january 6th and there's a real danger it could happen again. we know that individual people

have come under great threat inspired by people who have been moved by the former president's words. we know, of course, what happened on january 6th. the events in the last 24 hours in his post about alvin bragg dealing in racist and anti-semitic tropes and well after midnight last night suggesting there will be death and destruction if he's arrested even for a misdemeanor. that's a dark and danro place. joining us to talk about it is john kasich. he is now an nbc news analyst. let's start right there and get your reaction to what you've heard from the former president in the last 24 hours in potentially inciting violence. >> you know, the thing that strikes me when i see he called this d.a. an animal, he said anybody who would be doing what he does is a degenerate psychopath. i keep asking myself at what

point are people going to say enough of this? this is a man trying to be the leader of our country. secondly, you know, this idea that down in washington the house republicans want to do some kind of investigation, they have no message right now. they just had this retreat. joe's been to retreats. i used to go to all of them. i needed a vacation after a retreat. the fact is, that's the place to do your hard work and develop a message. instead, they're down there attacking this prosecutor. it's just wrong. what trump is doing is terrible. to say there would be violence, every time you think you've hit the bottom, we go a little lower. it's a sad situation. >> governor, good morning. i'm thinking back to covering you in the 2016 campaign when you ran for president in this

race against donald trump and you were on a debate stage criticizing donald trump over immigration and other issues. you did come out and criticize him a bunch during that campaign. i'm wondering how much you think things have changed now as we roll into a 2024 presidential campaign as you look at some of the candidates who are in the race and others who we assume will get into the race, kind of tiptoeing around the guy. what is the right approach if you are going to take him on and try to beat him for the republican nomination? >> getting down in the mud with donald trump is a big mistake. we saw ted cruz try to do it, marco rubio. look, you tell people why you need to be elected. what's your positive message? what's your hopeful message? be out there doing the things you need to do to press the flesh and get yourself to be able to rise. getting down in that ditch, nobody can win when you're down in the ditch fighting with

somebody else who's down in the ditch. you need to figure out a way to emerge. it's still very, very early. in order to be elected, you need to make sure you have enough money to get your message out. but money's not all that matters. look at jeb bush. he had a lot of money, never went anywhere. ideas, the way in which you are, the sort of magic that you bring to the room when you walk in, these are all the things. and to capture the attention of the media, because when the media is paying attention to you, that means you can rise. if you think you're going to get there by getting into this fight with trump, you're not going to win that, in my opinion. >> this is jen psaki. one thing that's been so alarming to me is not just trump's posts, which are clearly extremely alarming, but how much elise steph nick, kevin mccarthy and other republican leaders have echoed it and taken his direction. when you just said it's time to

say enough is enough, who can say enough is enough? where does that come from? is there a leader in the party beyond that presidential campaign? how would that happen? >> look, we don't want to just focus on house republicans that owe their positions to donald trump. if you look over in the senate with mitt romney and susan collins and lisa murkowski and the senate leader mitch mcconnell, these people have not weighed into that. there's a tendency in the media to try to say all republicans are caught in this. they're not. you don't see john thune waltzing around doing that. i guarantee at the end of the day, when we see a resolution of the debt limit and the budget, you're going to see mitch mcconnell emerge as a bigger spokesman than the people that are in the house. again, people in the house are making a mistake. this is a time for them to be showing people what they favor, the things that they think will help people's lives improve, whether it revolves around

health care, prescription drugs or a good plan on immigration. whatever it is, they step on their line because all they're doing is talking about donald trump and this investigation. it's silly. if i were at that retreat, i probably would have left. it's not making any sense to me. >> let's talk about what's happening to conservative governments across the world and this move away from western style democracy towards illiberal. one of the last figures opposing prime minister modi in india, you of course have orban, who's openly said i oppose western democracy. i am illiberal. and so-called conservatives we grew up with go over there and

they're nothing but apologists for a guy who hates western style democracy. you could look at netanyahu right now, a guy that we both know and we've both dealt with. he's literally changing the court system there so he can be in regardless of all the crimes he's committed. you have more republicans -- i'm sorry to pile on here, but we need to talk about this. you have more republicans now that have a more favorable opinion of vladimir putin than joe biden. tells you where we are in 2023. then, of course, you have donald trump, who's talking about death and destruction, but also said he wanted to terminate the constitution so he could get back in power. what the hell, john? you and i used to always talk about taking power, money and authority from a centralized state and taking it down to the

people. yet, they're doing just the opposite now. >> maybe jen psaki asked a question that gets to this, joe. you know, where are these other republicans. there are friends of mine or people i work with who retired from the congress and they never spoke out against donald trump. i've never quite understood it, joe. i don't know why they went away silently. now we have an opportunity for these republicans over there in the senate in particular or even some moderates in the house who will get attention if they speak out. they need to be speaking out, they need to be heard. in terms of this drift towards sort of this despotic form of government, here's what people need to understand. the first thing they're going to do is shut down the press. secondly, they'll silence their opponents. if you look at what putin did to navalny in russia, they'll put you in jail. they'll limit your speech.

they'll limit your ability to assemble. americans need to understand that any drift towards that is a violation of their basic god given human rights. this has to be rejected. what netanyahu is doing in israel, what orban's doing. let's not put orban and netanyahu together, but this move to try to control the judiciary, that's a terrible idea. i'm glad biden said something about it. republicans should be saying something about it. this drift or thinking that somehow what's happening in ukraine is some sort of territorial struggle, this is unhealthy. >> why would ron desantis puppet or just repeat kremlin talking points by calling an invasion from a war criminal, a guy the icc has called a war criminal,

why would ron desantis get on tv and say -- >> i don't know, joe. >> -- it's a border dispute? >> he's walked it all back. i think he realized, look, when you run for president you've got to have broad knowledge, except i guess when it came to trump, who didn't have broad knowledge. if you're going to run for president, you better know what you think about these international issues. you better think about how you feel about a whole range of domestic issues. the first thing you've got to do is pass that test. if the media thinks you can't pass that test, you get hurt. desantis, i think made a mistake and he's tried to walk it back. you can make a mistake, but you can't make too many mistakes or you begin to be counted out. >> former ohio governor john kasich, thank you very much. welcome aboard. good to have you. >> thank you, mika. see y'all soon. coming up on "morning joe,"

lit up in red following more concerns about the banking sector. ♪ ♪ get directv with a two year price guarantee. you know, there's a thousand billionaires in america, it■s up from about 600 at the beginning of my term. but no billionaire should be paying a lower tax rate than a schoolteacher or a firefighter. i mean it! think about it. (man) what if my type 2 diabetes takes over? (woman) what if all i do isn't enough? or what if i can do diabetes differently?

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we are going to stop bowser! how? look at us. we're adorable. let's go.

yes! april 5th. rated pg. if you want to help her shall walker go to help him. he's been be littled and beaten up beyond belief. we need the money to turn out our voters. a lot of people giving a little will close the gap. [ laughter ] >> those comments from republican senator lindsey graham. >> what they tell us, mika, is

if you're going to make a call for money, you have to get up, get out of your office, walk across the street, go down a block to the nrcc, walk in, go up, get on a phone and ask for money. >> yeah. >> he did it right there on tv in the light of day. i don't think those were nrcc columns behind him. >> it had a jim and tammy faye ring to it. give the money to hershel and i'll take it. graham violated senate rules because he was in a federal building when he solicited campaign contributions on behalf of walker. graham responded in a statement writing, quote, it was a mistake.

i take responsibility. i will try to do better in the future. >> okay. there you go. stock futures are in the red this morning. a big concern still over the global banking system. >> shares of major lenders are down with deutsche bank falling over 13%. what's going on here? >> if you put that 13% in context, deutsche bank has lost around a fifth of its value just this month alone amid all of the recent banking turmoil and industry woes. it's mostly being blamed on the contagion fears around the recent banking failures here in america and switzerland as well. a certain class of bondholders at credit suisse had their entire investment wiped out in the package. that led some investors to

question whether other europe banks could see a similar outcome in a crisis situation. the reason why we're focusing on this is, there is a cost to buying insurance against a bank defaulting on its debt. that insurance cost rose sharply for deutsche bank over the last couple of days. it means there's a higher relative risk being perceived by traders of that failure. on the other hand, the insurance cost is nowhere near the level we saw during the european debt crisis back in 2011. deutsche bank has reported ten straight quarters of profitability. there is a huge debate right now about whether deutsche bank is financially sound. it's incrementally worse but it's not the panic like we saw back in 2011. >> obviously one of the giants of the international banking system. we'll keep an eye on that. also catching our eye this morning, layoffs at walmart coming on the heels of layoffs

at amazon earlier this week. what's going on? >> we have two high profile companies. for walmart, the cuts amount to hundreds of employees working in fulfillment centers for those online orders. walmart employees roughly 1.7 million people in america alone, so this is a very tiny fraction of its workforce. but there are some folks wondering whether or not this is an indication or the beginning of a bigger economic or job trend since walmart is america's biggest private employer. you mentioned the amazon job cuts. i also want to mention what happened. this is the tech consulting and services company. it's got to cut 19,000 jobs, around 2.5% of its workforce globally. what they're saying is that it's the global economic uncertainty

that is lowering business demands for its services and hence the layoffs. >> 19,000 jobs. >> wow. >> mika. a new poll finds faith in america's banking system has hit a low in the wake of recent bank failures. only 10% of u.s. adults say they have high confidence in the nation's financial institutions. joining us now, former labor secretary robert riesh, professor of public policy at the university of california at berkeley. it's good to have you back on the show. what do you think of these recent bank failures? is it an indication of a larger problem? >> it's impossible to tell. that's the problem itself. banking depends upon governance. people have to know and feel that the banking system is

sound. when you have a bunch of bank failures or near failures when you have uncertainty as to whether depositors are even going to be insured at certain banks, when you have the crypto meltdown that we have had, ftx, all of these and credit suisse, all of these unsettle investors, they worry people who are depositors. they mean more and more money is moving to the big banks that are too big to fail. it all is nerve-racking. i think that the economy already when interest rates are going up is sort of on tenterhooks in terms of the future. >> you know, mr. secretary, after 2008, i would go around and talk to businesses and say how's your business doing? it's terrible, it's awful. this went on for about a year.

one night i found myself at a table of bankers. instead of asking how they were doing, i said i know this has been a tough year for you guys. they started laughing at me and said what are you talking about? it's been the best year of our lives. i'm still naive. we live in a country that socializes losses, but tells single moms to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. but we privatize gains. have we learned nothing? >> not only do we socialize the losses of the people at the top and impose the most cruel form of capitalism on most other people relative to most other rich nations, but also banking is no longer boring. i'm old enough to remember a time in the 1950s when banking

was boring because there wasn't very much money to be made in banking. now banking is exciting. after 2008, one of the goals should have been we put in place dodd-frank laws, we put in place stricter regulations. a lot of bankers, regulators in washington said no longer is banking going to be exciting, the big profits are -- the fact of the matter is banking is now about 35 to 40% of the entire economy, whereas 40 years ago it was 15% of the entire economy. banking is exciting. as long as it's exciting, it's dangerous. >> mr. secretary, these bank failures have put renewed scrutiny on some of the decisions by the fed and interest rate hikes they have done in effort to combat

inflation. we're getting mixed signals throughout the economy as to the right course. what is your opinion? what would be the right approach trying to balance this going forward? >> it's very, very difficult to know, obviously, because we don't know the future. i think the fed should stop raising interest rates. it raised a quarter of a point of interest rates on wednesday. i don't think i needed to do that. we've had eight interest rate increases over the past year. the fastest rate of interest rate increases we have seen since the 1980s. there's a lag time. when you raise interest rates, you don't know exactly what you're going to do to the economy for another three to six or eight months. every time you raise interest rates,you're making a guess about what you're doing to the future. why not pause? let's just stop. there is so much uncertainty in

the economy and so much fear and the waves are getting larger and larger. let's just wait and see what's happening. i do worry about the possibility of a recession. >> that's kind of a down note to end on. >> i'm sorry. everything will be fine. >> happy friday. we appreciate you being on the show. >> very honored to have you. >> take care. coming up, congressman george santos is reportedly holding a grudge against a tiny local newspaper that was the first to warn about the bizarre, unprinipled and sketchy -- >> that's the only newspaper that got this story right? >> interesting. that story is detailed in the new issue of airmail. editor graydon carter joins us

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43 past the hour. joining us now former long time editor in chief of vanity fair graydon carter. he's editor of the weekly newsletter airmail. we have a first look inside the new issue. we'll start off with the little paper that knew. tell us about the one newspaper that seemed to have the goods on george santos. >> well, george santos is just a fabulous creation. it can only be in america or in britain perhaps. this little newspaper on the north shore of long island broke the george santos story about two months before the "new york times." it was a small paper. nobody took george santos

seriously, so it didn't get a lot of traction. we have a story about how they broke it. they've gotten under george santos's skin because the writer sent a number of questions to george santos about things the publisher of the paper had said about him. he fired back in a long, angry detailed responses. he gets hung up on the fact that he was accused of stealing a burberry scarf. he sent back a photograph of his collection of burberry scarves. there were just three of them. a strange response to a question. >> you're also reporting on his quote when accused of lying, when being caught lying, boris johnson said i didn't lie, i

simply forgot what the line to take was. talk about boris on trial. >> it's funny you've got two former leaders of the great western democracies somewhat on trial for their lying. if you remember, when trump came into office, the broad sheet newspapers of the respectable press went out of their way to avoid the word lying. the same thing happened in britain. now the dam is opened and they're called liars openly. boris is on trial right now not for a criminal case, but he could lose his seat in britain. i think he probably will lose his seat and have to go into an election. most polls say he would not be able to win that. >> jonathan lemire. a couple of different items on vladimir putin suggesting he has established a workaround for many sanctions imposed by the

west and also raising the possibility that maybe he could be brought to justice because of the warrant from the icc. >> first of all, on the international criminal court, they managed to get the war criminals in bosnia convicted and in jail. they got charles taylor in liberia. he's in a british jail now. the whole country is a war crime scene. they're setting up an office in ukraine. as hard as it is to see them bringing him to justice, their track record is pretty remarkable. in moscow if you want to buy a mercedes, you place an order. somebody buys it in a free country, drives it 15 miles. then it's shipped as a used car through places like kazakhstan back into moscow. so there are workarounds for

everything. çpwhen they couldn't show amerin movies, they've got a bootleg copy of avatar and ran it as a trailer. it was a three-hour trailer. they've renamed coca-cola and all the magazines. so life goes on in moscow pretty much as it always has. it's just a bit more difficult if you're rich. >> speaking of rich, there's some rich snobs you say in aspen who don't really appreciate restoration hardware moving in and the restoration empire that seems to keep growing and growing. now it's rh versus environmentalists and rich aspenites. >> restoration hardware is expanding at a dramatic pace.

if you've ever seen their catalogs, they're like phone books. they may have hit a wall in aspen, because there is a lot of very wealthy people who do not want this restoration hardware ecosystem of hotels and houses and restaurants and showrooms and that sort of thing. as a result they've had to stop work on everything. they're going all over the country and england. they think they're unstoppable until they hit something where there's a significant number of activist wealthy people who don't want this to happen. >> well, the new issue of airmail releases tomorrow at 6:00 a.m. we got a preview. graydon carter, thank you so much for being on this morning. >> thank you so much. we're back in just a moment with more headlines right here on "morning joe."

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. the father of a 17-year-old who was killed in the parkland, florida, school shooting was u5uz judiciary hearinqi on gun violence.ñi it happened yesterday while republican congressman pat balin was askingw3 palw

with the argument tiuá guns, are ç a okt >> so mr.3w■ bosco, your brace not a ghost 3w■cñigun, correct? is this an insurrection? so will they be held to the same -- i don't want another

there. somebody is interrupting a hearing. the you knowxd what, we talk abr hecklers+■ shouldn't be on colle campuses. >> but we've interviewed this father, he's been there.

>> i cwlunderstand. >> and i'm not saying it's different, i'm saying we know who that is, and i'm not sure republicans who au? sitting in that hearing were surprised to be hearing from him. >> right. 0puá again, what i'm saying isx 0puá again, what i'm saying isx it's one thing for them toq appy it's quitexde1 another for what said from the podium with a father who lost a childxd and comparing him to÷dçó rioters, l comparing him to rioters who took american flags and beat thd hell out of cops and tried to overthrow american government, i mean, that'sñr pretty sick. >> jen psaki, maxwell frosts is one of your guests this sunday. tell us about that conversation and who else you have. >> first of all, i'd encourage people to look up what he had to say at the hearing as t(well. he's a 26-year-old generation v member of congress, and he has been an activist on gun violence since he was 15 years old because e's a survivor himself.

i e1mean, what axdlp topical ty horrific experience to have in this moment we're livingi] in, t we talked about about that, what he wants to do, if he's found a place to live which was kind of a question for a while, and we also went to a vinyl records store because he'r"a musician and a vinyl records collector. we've all been talking about a lot of things that are dark in olitis. i want toq know ,qat he thinks about all of that and also empower people with informñ=9■ç about all of theseq cases. and we hope we can do that on sunday. >> "insideok with jen psaki," already an instant hit.

it's big and ifq back, and even better ini] episode 2. we'll see you on sunday at noon. and joe, i close this show and>4)rj week withxd one r roll tide, goodñi luck tonight - >> fare thee well. >>t( i'll find out where you shl be. >> that's it for us this morning. >> there yout( go. >> yasmin vossoughianok picks u the coverage -- >> the entire audience, fare thee well back. >> they're going to be xdcute. >> yasminfá picksñr up the cove after a quick final break.t( that's why it's gotta be a cfp®. we must finally hold social media companies accountable.

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tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. ask your rheumatologist for rinvoq. rinvoq. make it your mission. learn how abbvie could help you save. hey, everybody, good morning to you. it's 10:00 a.m. in new york, i'm yasmin vossoughian. we have major breaking news this friday morning. we're just now learning about a second attack against a u.s. military base in syria, jus day afterçó a