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i am -- live in for a man multi dean. coming up this hour, of time for trump as the manhattan da closes in, they deadlock to claims of hoodwinked, into other legal battles. plus, the lawsuit complicating foxes case against dominion voting system. and, the most important election of the year, i will talk with the chair of wisconsin's democratic party on the upcoming supreme court race that could affect everything, from reproductive rights to the 2024 presidential election and more. that's get started! >> we have a lot of developments to get to in the ongoing criminal investigation into the former president, donald trump. we're gonna get started right here in washington d.c.. where trump's lawyer, evan cochrane, testified yesterday before a grand jury investigating the handling of classified of government

documents. -- ordered cochrane to testify, after rolling special counsel jack smith presented enough evidence to establish that trump may have committed a crime through his lawyers. that exempted him from attorney client privilege, in another blow to trump, and they ruled in another case that some of trump's -- including ex chief of staff mark meadows must have testified before a grand jury in efforts to overturn the 2020 election, the judge rejected trump's argument that executive privilege would bar him from having to testify. and in new york, we came and went without an arrest in that stormy daniels hush money case, amid trump's unsubstantiated and baseless claims of what was gonna happen on tuesday, but the threats against manhattan district attorney alvin bragg are mounting, the fbi and the nypd are now investigating a written death threat containing a small amount of white power, it was later deemed not

dangerous but it comes as trump escalates his rhetoric against the fda, warning against quote potential death and destruction, if he is charged in the case. i spoke with michael cohen's lawyers about this, on my show earlier, take a listen. >> my clients, michael cohen, when he began his testimony, one of the first things that he said to me when we discussed my representing him, is that donald trump is a liar. that michael cohen did his dirty deeds, and light for him, for ten years and he predicted in larger cummings, that mr. trump did not accept the election results. and he is a dangerous man. so what he is doing with this to brag, is consistent with what we have seen before from mr. trump. >> joining me now to discuss is, charles coleman, civil rights attorney and nbc news, and nbc legal analyst and former brooklyn prosecutor.

-- is also, here msnbc legal analyst and a former federal prosecutors. are, right have my prosecutors with, me let's start with you, and what is your reaction to what is really escalating rhetoric and the threats against alvin bragg? i should know that alvin bragg is the first black da, manhattan da, and i don't think i have to draw a picture for folks here on this channel about why calling him an animal in that context is so disturbing? >> i think that he should be charged, i am hoping that what they are doing this weekend is looking at the charges, and they have obviously they are ready to go forward and the stormy daniels charges, that is about to wrap up as far as we can tell. but now they have to make an evaluation of whether or not they're going to charge him for these menacing threats and harassment, i think that they should. and they posted the picture of our repulsive the picture of the baseball bat to his head. and predicted death and

destruction, and called him an animal and had antisemitic comments, if that crosses, that's way beyond the pale of first amendment protection, that is a menacing harassment, maybe it's inciting a riot, maybe it is an obstruction, i do not know. but there are plenty of options. and he ought to be charged with. those [inaudible] >> the reason why he does this now is no one has stopped him before. he does it all the time. we move the goalposts, he never gets charged, he always gets away from it. and everybody walks away from it, oh it is just trump. while somebody is going to get killed, and it is not going to be trump. somebody in the da's office. are going to be a juror, or going to be a judge. the reason that that is gonna happen is because for four years or five years we have been putting up with this unacceptable behavior, shrugging and saying, it is just trump being trump. while somebody is going to get killed. somebody is going to lose a family member because of this.

and bragging suspend up and charge him. even if it is a misdemeanor, charge mitt so he is held accountable. >> i appreciate your comments and your passion, because this is in fact not business as usual. what we are hearing from the former president is not just rhetoric. and it is in fact, what, i think you can draw a line from what the former president is saying, on his social media sites. and some of these actions that folks have taken up against the manhattan district attorney's office. child, it is not just these random people out there sending the, things are calling in. that's to the manhattan da's office. you've got republicans that are now in congress. that are attacking the da for his investigation. and tonight, alvin bragg responded. in a tweet to congressman jim jordan, saying, this unimpressive entered inquiry about federal elective -- and a man said where have i

democratic process. >> you've discussed this but, where former senior mccarthy weighed in on this investigation with bragg. talk about this intervention -- from congress india believe in intimidation? >> literally and -- i have never say in this type of intervention from congress. it is very clear, words have power. and i think that alvin bragg understands that he used the words to speak in a very powerful manner to tell jim jordan. and other congressional officials to stay in your lane. they are interfering in the space that the not -- they do not belong, and they are complicating what needs to be an investigation. and a prosecution from moving forward. how ironic is it, simone, that this was once the party that branded itself as being a group of people who are about law and order.

now attempting to subvert the rule of law in favor of someone who has clearly broken the law. i think that this is very telling, but i also appreciate how da bragg has dealt with these very unusual, and very unprecedented circumstances. >> cynthia, use -- you just noticed how you think bragg needs to charge trump. you talked about how vital the case is, and that it's bulletproof. or strong, in the steely and age. i don't think we should be saying that it's bulletproof. i think we should be excited at the fact that this -- i made, hush money payment is ultimately a situation that could have alter the 2016 outcome. maybe. we do not know. talk about the stakes here? >> well, i mean, here is a thing. bragg has been put in this difficult decision. because the department of justice did not do its job. colin went to jail for this crime, federal crime.

and trump should've been charged by the department of justice by the same crime when he stopped being president. that's what should've happened. and it's just one more thing that we have, we always move the goalposts for trump. and we haven't been willing to take him on. and, i will say, i was kind of iffy about this, i don't think that this is critical as the january six case, or as the case in georgia, or the mar-a-lago case, but the threat made may even want to prosecute it more but you can look at it in this umbrella, it is the beginning of him being willing to cheat to win an election, that's basically what, it is. it is the first time that we know that he did that. to cheat to win an election. it fits, you know, it's that and then there is threatening ukraine. if they don't help him cheat to win an election. and then there is all the cheating after the election, the fake electors and the attempt to pressure pence to do something illegal in order to cheat to win an election. so it does fit in the umbrella. it is not just paying off a

porn star, which sometimes i make fun of. but it really does fit into the entire cheating umbrella. but once you add, once you add that he is now threatening the prosecutor, not only have you faced off, miyares pistol of every prosecutor in america who is tired of the man getting away with things, threatening prosecutors, threatening judges, threatening witnesses, threatening election workers. threatens jurors. and i really think he has gone so over the line, that finally we are going to see that the wheels of justice will start to turn and picking up speed. >> i think there are a lot of people that are wondering if there will be justice, if the wheels of justice will turn for donald trump. i want to speak about some of the federal investigation into trump. charles, when do you think we can expect to see some of trump 's allies at the --

stephen miller, dan scavino. do you think we are gonna see it happen? what are you watching for? >> we have recently learned that mark meadows is going to be forced by court order to essentially come forward and testify before the grand jury. what we get out of him with a witness, a very important witness -- is going to be critical, however that is going to rest in the prosecutor's ability to actually ask him the questions that are either going to illicit useful information or put him in a position where he had to plead the fifth or take a position and make some -- i am no doubt that jack smith and his team are capable of doing it. however, i think that it is important to understand that as critical a witness as mark meadows, is even getting him before the grand jury was not easy. getting the information out of him is going to be harder, but he is still going to be critical in terms of tying everything up, jack smith is going to need it at around building a case with respect to january 6th in particular. the mar-a-lago case, the documents, case --

i have said for a very long time, mark meadows remains the linchpin between tying the donald trump directly to everything that we saw on january 6th. not just the fake electors scheme, but also the violence that we saw as part of the insurrection. so i am going to be watching for how prosecutors are able to thread that needle. we won't know specifically what information they will get from the grand jury. but we will wait to see how that plays out with respect to any indictment or prosecution. >> all right, we will leave, there i love it when the prosecutors explain things. cynthia, you don't -- we have a little more to discuss. charles coleman, we appreciate your time. it is late for you. next though, the new twist in the fox dominion legal battle. but first, my bestie richard louis is here with today's headlines. hey, richard. >> great to see you on this evening. some of the stories we are watching for you. senate minority leader mitch mcconnell was released from a physical rehabilitation center saturday. the 81-year-old suffered a concussion and fractured rib after falling at a fund-raiser

dinner earlier this month. mcconnell's office says he is expected to return to the capitol on the senate is back in session april 17th. at least 26 people were killed after at least 12 tornadoes swept through mississippi and alabama friday night. mississippi's governor declared a state of emergency, and president biden did pledge that fema will be having allocation to help with recovery efforts there. for two people died and at least 20 others remain missing after an explosion ripped through a chocolate factory about an hour outside of philadelphia friday. he fires freud one building and damaged one other. he causes under investigation. more ayman, right after this break. delicious any time of day. only from ihop. download the app and earn free food with every order. nicorette knows quitting smoking is freaking hard. you get advice like... just stop. go for a run. go for ten runs. run a marathon. instead, start small with nicorette,

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decide just how much of the dominion case will be presented before a jury next month. during a pre-trial hearing this week superior court judge pushed back on some arguments made by both parties, but he seemed particularly skeptical about the claims that the whole swears simply, voicing their opinions, not facts web they suggested on air that dominion, one of the biggest voting machine companies in the country, might have manufactured fake votes for joe biden in the 2020 election. dominion filed a 1. 6 billion -dollar defamation lawsuit against fox in 2021. they claim fox no english said false information, --

for the sake of ratings. fox maintains that its coverage is protected by free speech. meanwhile the network is being hit with another dominion related lawsuits. this one is coming from within. a producer who worked with host maria bartiromo anti-gay tucker carlson alleged in court filings that fox lawyers, quote, coached and intimidated her into giving misleading testimony ahead of her scheduled deposition in the dominion lawsuit. joining me now, is bardella, adviser, he is also a former spokesperson for the oversight committee, and hayes brown, a writer and editor at msnbc daily is here. and cynthia alksne is back with us. a resident prosecutor, i will start with you, cynthia. >> watch out. >> [laughter] okay, so look, both dominion fox's lawyer. they want an early ruling here from the judge because they didn't want to take the case before a jury next month. why don't you think that the

judge went for that option? and can use to explain to folks why neither party wanted this in trial? >> well, i mean, of course what she would like to do is just one without a trial. which saves you a lot of hassle and then you just give the money. that is why you don't want to have to have a jury. trial but this case had facts, it is going to go to trial, it is going to go to trial at the same time that the e. t. carroll case is going. and they are going to sort of effect each other. let me just tell you one thing about, but i have learned trying cases. i try cases in california and new york and alabama and texas and puerto rico. and the one thing ager will not forgive you for is lying. and what has been discovered in this case and uncovered is that fox news was lying. they knew full well that biden had won the election. they knew that the dominion voting systems did not have some fancy algorithm that was switching votes, that was designed for a venezuelan dictator. they made it up.

and they lied. >> we know this from those text messages that were made available in the deposition. >> right. >> -- [inaudible] not zero. >> that is a big statement, because that is why cases are hard to win. kurt let me bring you in here, because we know it is going to a jury, now let's talk about how this is going to play out from a public relations standpoint. the former comms person in the nose this could get uglier and will likely get a lot more attention over the next several months. so if you are a fox executive or the communications adviser for fox, how worried are you? >> you know, i am actually at a point, simon, or i don't think anything matters to these people. i, mean we have already seen the absolute worst possible -- for fox in terms of the public disclosure of what they all

really think about donald trump coming to public life. this doesn't matter, because the people who watch fox, they are not going to see anything about this story. because fox doesn't cover this at all. he hosts that are on fox, they are really entertainers in their own words. not news, people not journalists. they have no qualms about just making stuff, up flying every day to their audience. and really what they see in their audience is just a human atm mission. that is all that they, are they are dispensable, they are not respected. they just see them as a vehicle that they can use to further enrich themselves. and to be damaged with democracy, to be dammed with the rest of us. they just don't care that right now they are one of the most i think destructive instruments that is ever happened to our democracy. and nothing is too low for them to go. you could they cannot be shamed, simone. so if you are a fox calms person right now, i don't think he really give a crap about anything. >> hey, i think kurt has hit the nail on the head here about, but don't they have to care?

fox news is classified as a news organization? should they not care? shouldn't the bar be higher here? >> i mean the bar should be higher and i think that they care in so much as losing this case will cost them a lot of money. this is a life or death situation for the network. so i think that they care as far as they can't give up he goes to get in trial, in this court case. they can't move to a settlement right now. because moving to a settlement and trying to get this out of the way would do immense damage financially. again, text messages are out there, yes foxes tried to cover it. they have to at least try at this point to push forward the idea that no, no, we are winning within our first amendment rights. we are just doing what other journalistic operations are doing. they would claim that what they did is what we are doing right now. giving their opinion, giving their idea. >> we have a standards

department that we run the thing through, honey. and we care about the truth around here. there is this other case that i mentioned, you, know the fox producer who is -- her name is abby grossberg, and she claims that among other things, -- to take the blame of conspiracy theories that we heard about dominion. she has since been fired from the network. what do you make of this latest development? and could you speak to anything, it's a really amazing point that has just made. >> let me just make two points, one is that she would be a bombshell witness in the trial. because she understands underscores the strategy. and she understood underscores the misogyny. and everything that happens. it is, coming she is gonna be able to testify in this trial. she will come in and she will hurt box that much more. the other thing i want to tell you about, not only in the settlement. it is not just about money. and it is obviously going to be

big financial disaster for fox if they lose this 1. 6 billion. but what dominion is asking for is not only the money but also for such other relief as the court deems appropriate. so think that tobacco settlements, for example. that was forced on the tobacco company. they were forced to put ads on the air on all different channels that said that's what they have been doing with cigarettes and smoking and cancer, i don't know if you remember those ads. it is possible that this court could require fox to put on their air that they did not tell the truth about the election. >> oh, wow. >> that's possible. >> wow. >> the court could be not appropriate. so let's look for that, let's hope that something like that comes out so that, we have to start talking with everybody with a common set of facts. and we have to somehow get those facts to fox voters

fears. >> i am so happy that i work at a place that cares very much so about the truth. cynthia, thank you very much for your insight tonight. they have been illuminating. kurt and hayes, don't you go anywhere, because we are going to see you later in the show. i had, folks, the most crucial election of the year. it is the wisconsin state supreme court race. i will explain why after the break. not coughing? hashtag still not coughing?! mucinex dm gives you 12 hours of relief from chest congestion and any type of cough, day or night. mucinex dm. it's comeback season.

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in one of 2023's most consequential elections. i am talking about the wisconsin state supreme court race. what is what aside the ideological control of the -- battleground states which could in turn have massive nationwide consequences. what am i talking, about okay, look, a left-leaning court could agree to re-hear a redistricting case that just last year produced an electoral

map that majorly favored republicans. that of course could have implications for the 2024 presidential election. the court would also have the power to decide whether to overturn the results of a 2024 elections. just like it did four years ago. back then one of the conservative justices join to the courts liberals to reject donald trump's efforts to throw out ballots in democrat-leaning counties. also at stake's abortion rights. the new bench will likely hear a lawsuit challenging an abortion ban that they dates back to, to get this, y'all, 1849. he ban went back into effect after roe was overturned. and because the stakes are so high, the rates have broken -- state usual records -- more than $20 million in the run up to the april 4th election. joining me now is dan whistler, he is the chair of the wisconsin democratic party. dan, it is good to see you. so election day is, what, just two weeks away? voters are already heading to the polls. tell us, what are your thoughts on the state of the race right

now. >> it's great to be with. you and your viewers. this is like the end of october in 2022. or in 2020, honestly this election is the hinge for the political future of wisconsin. it determines whether we will stay on the brink of the authoritarian fall right -- control. or we were -- democracy in the state of wisconsin. it all comes down to the state supreme court which has been wildly out of control on the far-right so far. but could change in every way if we are able to win ten days from now. >> before early voting started in wisconsin, the voters got to hear directly from the two candidates in their first and what would be their only debate. the liberal judge in the race, protegee with, she hammered her conservative opponent daniel kelly for previously advising republicans on their efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential race. through the use of fake electors. she called him out for campaigning with the january 6th participants. do you think that dan kelly, is

it fair to say that dan kelly is an election denier? >> he is into ultra maga. he knows that joe biden won the election, but i think he wanted to overturn it. he has been campaigning with helping organize january 6th protests. those up the insurrection on capitol grounds. then he was confronted about the, he said it didn't bother, him he made a campaign video with this guy. he was just campaigning, at an event, spoke at an event where the previous speaker had been someone who called murdering abortion providers justifiable homicide. i mean he is so far out on the right. and if he had been on the supreme court in 2020 he would have cast the tie breaking vote to overturn the election results and start a domino effect that would have sent us into a constitutional crisis, like an election which we have never seen. and now he wants to get back on the state supreme court? for the 2024 election, we

cannot let him do that. >> -- the guardian reports that more than three point $9 million that is sporting to this once an election from individuals but also groups involved with promoting election disinformation. and a chance to overturn the 2020 election. how concerned are you by this influx of cash into the race from individuals that are seeking to subvert democracy? >> in fact, that reporting is updated. they announced another $2 million just at the end of this week. -- we are going to be outspent in the final week, based on the numbers that we have seen right now. now we are using money or efficiently, we are communicating a better message about freedom and democracy. anyone who wants to help can go to -- dot org. but this is all hands on deck kind of. and although we know that the message of reproductive freedom, the message of having a democracy, having in court that

respects the rule of law, that's a better message than fearmongering from the far-right. we also know that we can take nothing for granted. the last time we had a race like this was 2019. we were ahead, as i think we are ahead right. now but right-wing's flooded the. state and we want to get up losing by 5000 hundred 81 votes. that is less than one vote for precinct. so we are sprinting, we are sprinting because this is our last shot before the 2024 election. do not have a supreme court populated by election denialists who would be willing to overturn the most sacred cornerstone of our democracy in order to declare power. >> the outcome of this election that we have talked about a little bit, could really have major impacts on abortion rights in the state of wisconsin. dems actually have a lawsuit that is challenging the 1849 abortion ban, the one that republicans just want to modify, allowing abortions only in the -- weeks of pregnancy for victims of rape or incest. now, polling shows that more

than 60% of wisconsin voters favor legal abortion. how big of a factor is this in this particular race. and do you think that voters in the state know the various perspectives of the two candidates on the ballot on this issue? >> yeah, so striking. even the proposal you just described. some republicans put forward immediately directed to the republican party said no. no exceptions for rape or for incest. there are far-right groups that have endorsed dan kelly, the republican supreme court candidate who wanted to eliminate the exception for the life of the mother that was included in the law in 1849 before women have the right to vote. when the span was first passed. dan kelly provided legal counsel to a group called wisconsin right to life. a far-right anti abortion group that is pouring millions of dollars into his campaign, where they're along with the election and analysts. the stakes are huge. the state has been very clear,

she says she will never prejudge a clay case, their own personal values are that abortion should be a decision made by the person who is pregnant. not by a politician. and that means that for voters, what we are hearing from them is that as you knock on doors, even in this -- astonished snow today. we are hearing from people that that basic question of personal freedom, bodily autonomy is being the most important issue in this election. if we win it will be because people struck a blow for freedom and democracy. and that really is in defiance of a right-wing that is trying to divide us using racialized fear to try to get a mostly white state to vote based on their worst instincts instead of their best instincts. i think they're wisconsinites are going to rise up to this, live up to this moment and elected janet -- on april 4th. but we have got to take nothing for granted in the final stretch. >> i have been saying for over a year now that wisconsin is ground zero for the battleground for democracy and our country. it is the most gerrymandered state in the country and april

4th is a very important date. we will be watching, wisconsin democratic party chair and, wheeler think you very very much for your time. >> thank you, simone. >> up next, folks, the republican chairman of the house oversight committee has flown the panel into utter chaos. stay with me. we've stripped all over this mountain. i love it when he strips for me. i strip on sick days. breathe right instantly relieves nighttime nasal congestion. daytime, too. helping you breathe easier for up to 12 hours. breathe right. strip on. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ hey, man. nice pace! clearly, you're a safe driver. you could save hundreds for safe driving with liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need! [sfx: limu squawks]

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the vehicles are all-electric. the feeling is all mercedes. the choice is all yours. see your dealer for exceptional offers today. >> my colleague ayman has spent weeks spotlighting the extremism and apoxsee of the house oversight committee chair, republican congressman james comer. and this week it gave us plenty of reasons to continue to cover james comer's bad actions. plus let's start with the fact that commerce and on to a letter demanding answers for manhattan just returnee alvin bragg. calling his ongoing investigation into donald trump a, quote, unprecedented abuse of prosecutorial authority. now that is some tough talk from someone who the new york times reports it's spending much of his day's flooding out his own investigation into president biden and his family. comer has subpoenaed bank records of hunter biden's associates, and recently got access to the biden family

business transaction records. so let me get this straight, it is okay for him to go after the biden, regardless of how baseless claims are, literally basis. investigating donald trump for actual alleged crimes. that we could see? that is the second part? okay. because he just quietly abandon the congressional probe previously opened by democrats -- into whether trump profited improperly from his presidency. and he dropped a secret inquiry into trump's son-in-law, jared kushner's business dealings. admitting it wouldn't have been politically sustainable. back with me now is kurt bardella and hayes brown. look, kurt, you worked as a former service -- a spokesperson for the house oversight committee what do you make of these moves by congressman comer here? >> it is nothing short of a flagrant abuse of power. let's be perfectly clear here, the house oversight committees authority exists so that it has purview over federal taxpayer

dollars. to ensure there is not any abuse or mismanagement of federal dollars. to make sure that there is not any abuse or mismanagement of federal dollars. it has no business at all looking at investigations of the manhattan da. it has no purview at all to be interfering in this type of investigation. and it is very evident to the rest of us have a functioning brain that all republicans want to do in congress is try to abuse their oversized authorities that they can try to sabotage a very legitimate investigation, they are clearly very worried with the legal jeopardy that donald trump has found himself in. they are gonna try to use the instruments of power that they have to obstruct justice. there was no earthly reason at all why the house oversight committee should be investigating the manhattan da. it is just absolute malfeasance. it is an abuse of power. and i think that any republican right now who allows this to happen, who doesn't speak out against this type of abuse, you are complicit in the criminal activities of donald trump and the overall republican party.

because it isn't just trump anymore, simon, they are accomplices in this criminality. >> well, you know, haze, to kurt's point. one of my republican friends might say, but, look senior times is reporting that comer says he's looking beyond biden and towards policy issues with bipartisan residents. such as investigating pharmacy managers, and foreign prescription drug prices, but hayes can we really believe that? i mean to my knowledge, he did not vote in support of capping insulin costs to $35. ? right. >> and i do think that we will see whether those hearings emerge, like he can say that -- preview of the oversight committee. and to kurt's point, yeah, the doesn't have the jurisdiction. what is interesting is how they keep trying to claim that they do. like, if you look at the letter that comer signed on to two alvin bragg. one of the things they tried to use to justify this investigation of the investigator's the idea, like,

well we don't know where the federal taxpayer money back being sent to, the manhattan district attorney's office. just as it's going, this probe of president trump. answer is no, and a quick google search will tell them that. the new york city city council financial department put out the numbers and showed their federal dollars go for the da. a google search would tell them, but, no they want the story, they want the narrative, and so they are going -- while they should be doing things like i keep claiming to the new york times. how much of their time goes into that part -- there might be a 5% to 95% here for all we know, and that is being generous. >> not a google search being able to save us our tax dollars, oh my goodness. only in 2023. and it is 118th congress. you know, kurt, that new york times profile that i just cited from of comer, he also said this, quote, if you come to kentucky and call me old ultra maga that doesn't hurt me in my district.

he goes on to say that he is treated as a hero in his district with the local deputies sheriff. letting him go from a speeding ticket, only after leaning into ask one question. we are gonna get biden or not? this was insane for me to read. absolutely insane. what do you make of this? >> well, it just wreaks of white privilege, first of all, you and i both know that if you don't look like a white good old boy from kentucky, pete least pulled you over, that exchange will go a lot differently. and you will get -- for your life. so you know, you know what we're talking about here. second of, all the idea here that anyone should be above the law, which is what comer was basically bragging about, that he is so popular that he could just violate laws, and law enforcement will look the other way, i think that speaks for a much broader problem that we have in this country, which is why we have issues within

justice, and racial equality, and police brutality and abuse of power from people in powerful places, and in law enforcement so comer is kind of making our point for us that listened, these issues that we talk about here, it is not a woke thing and it is not a liberal thing, it is an interference thing the. justice is supposed to be dispensed fairly, and blindly, blind of, colour-blind of, creed bland of, race blind of well. it's supposed to be dispensed evenly, and what republicans are doing right now, by masquerading to try to subvert a free and a fair and impartial investigation, and then to brag to the new york times about getting off from a speeding ticket, or whatever comer is talking about, it actually makes our point for us that we need serious reform. >> kurt and hayes, don't worry folks. they're going to stick around. because we have more to discuss. up next, joe manchin and sinema. they just cannot get enough of

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(vo) the subaru crosstrek. make it your mission. dog tested. dog approved. love. it's what makes subaru, subaru. >> just because eamonn is not here tonight, doesn't mean you're going to miss out on the worst of the week. i have got you covered. and this week's matchup as a battle of egos between kyrsten sinema versus joe manchin. first up is senator sinema. politico is reporting that now independent arizona senator is quoting gop donors -- on her former democratic colleagues calling them, quote,

all those eating jell-o at a luncheon for republican lobbyist. at the same event, she also aimed her scorn at the biden administration, putting the middle finger in the direction of the white house while referencing former chief of staff ryan plane. now, that is adult, not to be outdone, senator joe manchin entered the chat. the democrat of shot to the white house this week as the president vetoed a bill that would scrap a bill on the department rule that -- governance investing. now, this rule says that money managers can consider things like crises when making decisions for retirement investments. republicans have dismissed it as well, and senator manchin jumped on board saying, quote, this administration continues to prioritize the radical policy agenda over the economic energy and national security needs of our country. and it is absolutely infuriating. and we've got our panel back. hayes, who is your pick? the senator or manchin? >> i have to go with sinema. like, manchin, i hear his trying to parrot the gop and that one.

but i can see why, whether you run again in 2024 for reelection, but if he does, that is the sort of thing that's going to get joe manchin reelected in west virginia. and i get that. on the other hand, i don't know what kirsten sinema is doing, and no one really does. like, i have really been baffled this entire time, and what really gets me about that politico story is that it just confirms something that we've been hearing the entire time she's been in the senate, which is her meeting with rich donors than it is meeting with her constituents. like, either to get them to talk about what she believes, if you're going to be handing a check to someone, or if you believe that you, she can vote your way, and you will donate like if you are in the financial industry than it is if you are her constituent asking her to stand on joe biden's agenda, what is it in the build back better act, to bring back a few years ago, that you want to cut down? that was a possibility. we have to give her worst of the week. >> okay, kurt, who are you gonna go with?

>> well, i'm gonna go with manchin here -- >> okay, tell us why. >> i am one of those people -- i'm definitely hoping that reuben gallego takes care of sinema, but listen, 90% of our commerce runs ferociously. when the sea level rises, what do you think that does to our ports, to our economy? our managers, they get this. it is about measuring risk. they understand the basic economics at play here that climate change as a greater existential threat to our global economy, tore entitle entire financial system. i don't care where you fall on the ideological spectrum on climate change. it is simple dollars and cents. basic math that anyone with a functioning brain can understand here.

and the more that people like joe manchin who should know better pander to people and tell them what they want to hear, and don't tell them the truth about the catastrophic consequences of climate change, the greater disservice you're doing them, because these are the people that are gonna get hurt the hardest by the climate crisis. the climate crisis doesn't care if you are red or blue, or if you are in a red or blue state, or if you are a woke progressive, or a conservative republican. the damage that is caused by climate catastrophes is very real, and it affect all of us. people that didn't even grow the heck up here. and they just understand, this isn't real, you can't wish it away, it's happening. and that's why we have things like esg right now, because anyone and finance knows that that is a greater risk to our financial health. >> here here, i mean, it is a fact. we were talking earlier today about the devastating tornado

that tore through places in mississippi. again the climate crisis, that does not care who you voted for in the last election. you know, folks, the political piece that also mentioned that republican donors had praised cinemas work on blocking president biden's agenda, saying that their taxes tactics would've gone through the roof if not for her. hayes, you picked senator sinema. what's your reaction to that assertion? >> i mean, that's true. it's 100% true. it was kirsten sinema who during the negotiations of the build back better act said no, i have to get the -- i have to make sure the tactics she's trying to find alternative revenue for that discussion. there will be an agreement on the filibuster. they split on climate and tactics. and joe manchin, he wants more taxes for the rich. sinema does not. so, that's 100% accurate what she told those donors. >> kurt, i'm wondering of all of this fanfare this week from these two senators stem from them looking to regain that spotlight that they had for the first two years of president biden's term, when they had that power to block his agenda in the senate. what do you think? >> you just nailed it. i was just thinking of that, listening to a stop. it's like, oh, i know what's going on here.

they just missed being the lioness. they just be missed being the center of attention, which for the bulk of 2022, we spent the bulk of the week talking about donald trump and his activities, and marjorie taylor greene's visit with january 6th prisoners, and even tonight, someone just texted me about the rally tonight began with donald trump and a january 6th choir singing the national anthem, whatever the hell that terrorists require is. here we have the two maniacs, sinema and manchin, what about us? we're still here. you should be talking about me. so, clearly, this is their desperate plea to just have everybody stand there and go, oh, let's take a minute, talk about these two people, because they missed being center of attention. >> do you know, correct, i think, i feel like that's a little bit of -- but, hayes, i'm reminded of what you said a little earlier in the segment about the fact that what manchin said this week could help him, if he

decides to run for reelection. he hasn't, though, ruled out running for president in 2024, north saying he's gonna run at all. we don't know what is gonna do. he said he would say something at the end of this year. he'll be clear a little later about what he's going to do. how concerned, if concerned at all, do you think democrats should be, if he does decide to make a run for president if you will? >> i mean, he's not going to do very well in the primaries. he's gonna -- run it's not just gonna be politically good for him. they're more concerned about keeping him in the senate, if at all possible, to make sure they can keep the majority. whereas, i don't see it happening. >> i actually don't see it in the cards either. we are gonna leave it there. that was a big were slim of the, we first time to get. so, thank you all for helping us. kurt bardella, hayes brown, thank you, thank you. folks, that does it for me

tonight. i am symone sanders-townsend in for ayman. thank you for making time for us. please come back tomorrow night at 9 pm eastern on msnbc for more ayman. you can also check me here on msnbc weekend at 4 pm eastern at anytime over on peacock, where i have new episodes on the msnbc hub every monday. have a great evening. ♪ ♪ ♪ d are starting hiv-1 treatment or replacing their current hiv-1 regimen. detect this: no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this: most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. dovato is as effective with just 2. research shows people who take hiv treatment as prescribed and get to and stay undetectable can no longer transmit hiv through sex. don't take dovato if you're allergic to its ingredients, or if you take dofetilide. taking dovato with dofetilide can cause serious or life-threatening side effects. hepatitis b can become harder to treat while on dovato.

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