>> take a listen.

>> before the election, you have made the payments today and it was because of the election, -- >> and because of trump's embarrassment. >> it doesn't matter what trump does, it was because of the election that it was an election violation. i am not a lawyer -- >> the chairman said, it does matter that if it was something other than exclusively the campaign then it is out of -- paid in campaign funds. >> my question watching that is that is that a preview then of the legal argument that they are than trying to make? >> yes and no. i think that the subpoena has switched gears on a number of different occasions that they attempt to go on, and indeed,

they pursue this in terms of giving the indictment and moving forward i think that is one of the most straightforward things that they can respond, with primarily because, at this point, we don't necessarily know the clue and legal charges. so if he does go with that campaign file which most people expect him to do, that probably is one of the ways that he will fight it. the other, not that they may likely take is that they may claim this is embezzlement, this was pressure, because that in the public sphere as well. so it could be either or, but it does not surprise me to see them particularly pushed, this particular given that he is given about fighting the fcc chairman. >> so, frank, even as this is all going on, even after these death threats came to light. you had trump continuing to attack da bragg and the investigation of the social media knock off on twitter. how are social media enforcements looking to find out the hundreds of threats

looking into the da's objects actually be credible. >> so what i'm hearing is that at least -- [inaudible] prosecutable, legit, threats to life. very serious charges that they can identify where they are coming from even several charges that they made or email or interstate communications this is serious business here and unfortunately, it is only just, begun remember, we have trump driving the narrative where we could go today in announcing he was gonna be indicted, never happened. he is running the show right now. and what that is doing is it is giving all kinds of time for his followers and violent followers amongst them to decide to plan, organized, and make threats. the indictment has even come down yet, if it's going, too and that means that this is just a preview. tonight, even as we speak,

trump continues to attack not only the da, but the charges that might be coming themselves. he is actually, again very inaccurately claiming that the federal government is directing brag to do it, that is just not how the system works. but his followers seem to be eating that up. so the system is going to get stress test it is hard to test that in the -- you are going to see a national coalition come together to gather plans for domestic terrorists, plans to violently protest what is happening but again, wait for the fulton county charges if they come. wait for federal charges if they come, and then, i think we are really in an unprecedented security mode. yeah, and i'm going to loop back. so i'm going to ask, because you do have the former president onstage in waco texas, a lot of this for him is political, your sources are telling nbc news that it could, quote, rogue mentality now

permeates mar-a-lago. we could work to turn the possible indictment into a political boom. trump is sure to be testing that in texas tonight. i wonder if you think it has just been marketed as something more. >> i think it's important to remember that this is the 30th anniversary of the massacre in waco, which has a huge place in the right wing imagination. it was something that helped inspire the bombing of the oklahoma city federal building for people who sort of are willing to take violent action against the federal government and the killings and waco are sort of seen as a touchstone in terms of government tyranny. so i think that what we've seen is that they've called the protests and basically they have not responded. basically half a dozen people may be a trump tower people who might have trans plants such a

protests are in prison under indictment because of january 6th or worry among the organized rights of that entrapment in the light so it seems like having failed to the first time he is pouring more and more gasoline on the fire, with increasingly explicit information to violence. >> can you pick up where michele left off vis-à-vis the importance of this happening in waco. can you pull back the curtain for us. if you are a security expert and you know the exact crowd that he is looking to speak to, what are you doing behind the scenes to track that chatter? >> rest assured, the law enforcement community and federal dhs, fbi, is listening tonight to see if he truly is using the kind of language that incites violence. and we also are looking online at extremist chat rooms, various private places, where

people feel free to speak. and we are watching the response to this. are they responding to this and what are they saying. and there is research that needs to be done about when exactly the trump team decided to pick waco. tonight, trump path to the lieutenant governor of texas and said that this has been planned for a while and they selected waco together. but the symbolism is absolutely troubling. because there is a delectable line that any call to waco that the tragically stood and had to standoff with federal agents with 75 or more people killed. but the significance with that event and a guy blowing up a part of a federal building in that, he attended a standoff. he was there in wake of in 93, he blows of the federal building in oklahoma city exactly two years later, to the day, so we know that this kind

of event, anti government, can incite horrible violence. trump is there tonight trying to incite this crowd. >> the grand jury is set to take up this matter again on monday. we talked a little bit about new york, but to go back to something else, there is also georgia. there is also jack smith to investigations. how do you see new york getting into the bigger picture? >> i think new york would be the first domino to fall, and i think that in a lot of ways, new york would be instructed to other law enforcement officials, other deities, other prosecutors, about how to move forward and what you can and indictment. it is critical to know that the first step you actually have to get the indictment. we are not there yet. i'm sure we'll see more on that this week. but it is important to know that beyond that reputation of damage that donald trump stands to lose from indictment and the potential conviction here, none of what we are talking about is going to stop or prevent formally his presidential aspirations. the only person right now whose position to do that is

ultimately jack smith. in terms of the charges in the actual convictions and what they mean, there is only the charge that comes from jack smith and potentially a charge or a prosecution of occupational conspiracy that can illuminate him from holding the office the presidency again. >> hold that thought, we are going to talk about after this quick break. you are all sticking with me, we are going to continue this conversation with donald trump losing two major claims of privilege in two separate cases. the first to appear at the headlines, hey richard. >> thank, you alicia. we now have some radio out of rolling fork mississippi to show the aftermath of tornadoes sweeping through that state in alabama, killing at least 26 people. mississippi's governor has declared a state of emergency and the states emergency management agency said at three locations for food and shelter. [inaudible] [inaudible]

[inaudible] and senate majority leader mitch mcconnell was released from a physical rehab facility saturday, at the 81-year-old suffered a concussion in fractured a rib after falling at a fund-raiser dinner earlier this month. he's expected to return to the capitol when the senate is back in session on april 17th. and two people died and at least five others remain missing after an explosion ripped through a chocolate factory in pennsylvania on friday. the cause of the explosion is under investigation. more american voices, right after this break. after this break. there's always a fresh deal on the subway app. like this one! 50% off?!

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could have a serious implications for donald trump and members of his inner circle. federal judges ruled the trump close to date including had chief of staff mark meadows must testify before a grand jury investigating efforts to overturn the 2020 election. judge ferrell howell rejected trump's argument that executive privilege allowed him to block

the testimony. that is the latest vote blow to the ex presidents claim of privilege. on friday, trump's lawyer testified for three hours, as part of the grand jury investigating trump's handling of classified documents. he will return for questioning after howell denied his claim for attorney client privilege, stating the pro fraud exception. he has been told to hand over more illegal documents, investigators are going to handle for most invoices and transcriptions of personal audio recordings. it is clear. trump wanted to keep that information private, since he even mediately appealed howls ruling. however, that appeal was quickly rejected, so quickly that it left some questioning if new information, possibility with national security could've accelerated that time. let's bring our panel back. let's start, charles, with this latest ruling from judge howell. busiest women in washington apparently. executive privilege specifically, trump expected to appeal.

based on the information as far do you think it holds >> i think it will hold because of the executive privilege that trump is claiming he no longer has the privilege belongs to joe biden and this is not an issue that i think courts are going to allow trump to hide behind when you are talking about the investigation and prosecution of what happened on january six and there's another point i'm going to make on this. mark meadows is really really important to actually tying everything together to the extent that prosecutors won't be able to get any information out of him. he is the one person we have actually heard a little bit from mike pence in the public -- >> he wrote a whole book. >> right, so mark pence is the closest person to donald trump who we have not heard anything from. and to the extent the, prosecutors are able to get information out of, that could be vital towards moving forward in terms of deciding what charges donald trump may face around january 6th and what happened there.

>> i agree with charles that mark meadows is the big fish here, but he is not the only fish. other official orders have been ordered to testify including the former director of national intelligence, john ratcliffe, ex national security adviser -- former top security officer ken cuccinelli. what do you think about how that testimony could prove to the doj's case? >> well, we are now as close as we are going to get to trump. we are talking about the associates age and appointees who are surrounded to trump and particularly, mark meadows, you recall from january six committee. testimony it on this. specifically cassidy hutchinson's testimony. mark meadows literally in the room, the people trying to get him all day, do something about the president, what is happening on the sixth, what is going on. he knew, we just need to understand the extent to watch him and these others are going to be loyalist to trump, are going to obfuscate, hinder,

obstruct, or whether they are going to finally realize that their own criminal exposure is facing them now. and that they are have a decision to make of whether they have got a criminal charge or whether they are going to cooperate. i have to tell, you i am not very optimistic. these, the names you just read aloud, for the most part, more extreme red arrests. and first, mark meadows has aspirations to continue to another administration and some form. so we are going to begin to see whether or not the -- are going to see what they can get from these folks, whether they cooperate or not, for those who are on the fence right now about cooperating with this inquiry. and we don't know where this is going. but the judge has decided that executive privilege does not count in the case of these attorneys, i see a crime occurring i'm looking, at and i am not going to buy into this idea of attorney client

privilege. >> most of the names made in this order, they did testify for the chamber six committee, but notably, meadows and -- who ran trump social media accounts, i do think that would be interesting here should we get their testimony about if whether or not if he did not want to participate the january six hearing. i wonder what new details we could learn from this, but i also wonder if you share franks pessimism about how he's going to proceed. >> i think they are going to have to talk. it is one thing to ignore a congressional hearing, but you cannot ignore a court order. i think of the january 6th, we all thought we sort of knew what happened on january 6th going into the january 6th hearing. it is a lot of exasperations and patience. people think then that there wasn't going to be much you hear, but there is so much new.

very rarely -- you never kind of hear investigations of donald trump to make you think that it's crimes more serious as you might have thought. as i said, it is always worse than you assume. so you have to assume that the reason that mark meadows is fighting so fiercely not to have to testify is because if he does testify, it will result in him in kind of burning bridges with his only prospect of power. >> and then, of course, we have corcoran, it is a weak full. it is amazing. it has been a very long week, we have all had our eyes on manhattan, and then there was all of this action in jackson's investigation. if you are not covered by attorney client privilege, what kind of information would that then open up the possibility that corcoran is able to share? >> well, the most important thing in this context is that

he can talk about communications that he had with the client and what his client told him, and what his client asked him to do. because you have a client exemption which has now pierced -- the ironclad protection of what the attorney or clients intended to do, now is the inquiry into what they talked about, notes about what they made, any note that they talked about, anything that recorded those things whether it is actually recordings or whether there are things that you wrote down. all of that stuff is fair game. and that is usually the type of thing that a client will not let the public see, which is why you hire a lawyer. you retain a lawyers that you can talk to them in confidence about what things are going on. what you don't retain a lawyer for is to be able to commit crimes, and that is what donald trump right now is facing about the time that he's going to go before this grand jury. >> an important distinction for anyone considering hiring an attorney. frank, much has been said about the remarkable speed of the d.c. circuit court of appeal

decision in this case. scott anderson senior editor at the -- has one explanation that could cause accelerated timeline is that the doj could have presented evidence that there may still be classified information in trump's hands. >> and that corcoran's testimony could help him recover. what do you make of that? >> yeah, there have been various sources that have told the media that are familiar with the investigation regarding the documents that they have no degree of confidence that they got all the jockey roads. so i think it's a safe bet that in part, the judge is being driven by evidence she's hearing from the prosecution that they don't know that there is more, documents or even worse, they have valid reason to believe that there are additional documents or they just don't know where they are or what has been done with them. i think that would accelerate the unprecedented midnight deadline for the prosecution.

you know that prosecutor was up all night preparing their response to the defense, so, yeah, we have to judge who absolutely is driven by the facts and circumstances. and i think the timing reflects that. >> i have to tell you, i have been, for the first time since i chose not to go to law school, sort of regretting given the amount of legal aid that we'll talk about, that six a.m. deadline made me think twice about that. i'm very happy to sweep that went out. michelle, corcoran in court, just a day earlier, disputed a subpoena made by president mike pence's testimony regarding his dealings with trump around january 6th, and mike pence i think kind of continues to astound me. here he is, he put it on a book, but then he does not want to talk about it in court. likely, mostly, out of political motivation. >> i would say we don't know that he put it on a book.

he put in the story that he wanted to tell, so i think he has been trying to walk this fine line of separating himself from trump without alienating the trumpist space. i think it is a doomed project and obviously mike pence is not going to be president, but mike pence does not realize that. so i still think he has shown more honor than other people in trump's circle, that is a low bar, but he has not totally burned his bridges yet and pretty soon he is going to have no choice to tell the full story. >> michelle goldberg, a wonderful catch, thank you all so much for getting us started. coming up, congressman madeleine beale is here to discuss republican committee chairs going after a manhattan da, alvin bragg. da, alvin bragg. [ laughs ] [ horn honks, muffled talking ] -can't hear you, jerry. -sorry. uh, yeah, can we get a system where when someone's bike is in the shop, then we could borrow someone else's? -no! -no!

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government. for the gop, it is [inaudible] the chairs of the house judiciary committee oversight the committees respectively, have manhattan da alvin bragg to testify before congress regarding any potential indictment of donald trump and the hush money. the response reminds republicans that their interest in the case started after, quote, donald trump created a false accusation that he would be arrested. at the da's office also point about pending criminal cases are beyond common jurisdictions, and of course, in new york, or the proper form for such challenges. let's bring our next guest, democratic congressman of pennsylvania -- she works on the committee members work on the second indictment of donald trump. thank you for being here, at the house gop chairman responded to brag's letter

arguing, quote, the judiciary committee is examining whether the legislative reforms are necessary to initiate former and current president from politically motivated prosecutions by state and local officials. so i assume, congressman, that they would use the same standard for president biden he, got no? >> i'm sure not. also just as they don't even bother to answer their own subpoenas, so we will see the rabbit hole this will go down. everyone, thank you for having me on tonight, but i was thinking about a statement that president biden statement made to the new york times talking about the genius of american democracy and our independent and strong institutions, checks and balances, and independent judiciary. so for the application of the -- law. what you see is the three committee chairs who are trying to drag brag in and will not be successful, and is really the command of the person in charge,

which is speaker mccarthy. it was he who told all of them, call a brag in, we have to look at this prosecution. we have to investigate the investigation. that is not how the law works. that is not how institutions are to operate, they have to be separate,smz- and it is a shamel row display by mccarthy and this chairman. i was going to tell you as well that my experience here on the 118 congress with a senate minority by just a few votes, just five, has been very unsettling. and i mean unsettling for the republican caucus. they cannot get lead -- it is to the detriment of our governing body. it is very harmful to the american public, and if it were connally, it could be just under the table. but it is much more than that.

it is desperate, it is dangerous, as you can see, the death threats against anybody who goes against the former president. >> to that point, brad just sent out a tweet a few minutes ago responding to jim jordan, saying, quote, we value our jurisdiction based on the facts, the law, and the evidence. it is not appropriate for congress to interfere with pending local investigations. this unprecedented inquiry by several elected officials to this ongoing matter serves only to hinder, disrupt, and undermine the legitimate work of our dedicated prosecutors. as always, we will continue to follow the facts and be guided by the roaming line everything that we do. miss congressman, i take that you are no caps of exploits here is that they are not actually folks to any of the issues that americans care about. they are not actually here to get down to the business of legislation, even on the things that they have been promised there.

he said that he is mostly interested in -- senegal's, specifically as it relates to the school of law, what is the danger in what jim jordan, kevin mccarthy, and others are doing when it comes to helping alvin bragg. >> good question. so many layers of obstruction, it is obstructing the independent organization at the state and federal level. it is not a congressman's role to investigate an ongoing investigation. and all of, this of course, is to try to insulate the former president from his wrongdoing and from prosecution of his wrongdoing. that cannot stand. that cannot be the america that we enjoy. in that is not healthy for the republican party. mr. trump must be held to account for his wrongdoings. and for those who trivialize the hush money payment, do not forget when that took place, that took place days before the

election. and i think that within around 48 hours, the revelation of the tapes where he talked so grotesquely about what he does two women, strangers, to him, grabbing inappropriately without asked or without any kind of appropriate behavior. we are in a free fall. so this kind of hush money payment is extraordinarily relevant. >> there is an interesting dynamic playing out which is saying that your republican colleagues in the house coming to the defense and caring for a lot of folks. they are much quieter over on the senate side, and i wonder if spending a deal of your time on capitol hill, if you could talk to us about what that dynamic looks like? >> you are right, it is hushed. there is nothing going on over there. i would have thought, i spent some time in the senate prosecuting the case with the impeachment managers. and you would have thought that

the end of impeachment chair, the chair of senators, would have at least said, all right. we did not allow for the conviction which, of course, he should've been convicted. but let's separate ourselves from the criminal corrupt anti-democratic former president. one who continues to lose and continues to lose for us. so i think you can see over in the senate, a preparation, i would say obviously a democratic majority, but a separation from this carnival. who will take down the republican party and see the complicity of speaker mccarthy and the chairman we are talking about. >> >> >> congressman -- including house republicans full rights, we will be right back. back. wow. (seth) and this apple watch. all three on them. (cecily) nice. (vo) that's right! switch now and get iphone 14 pro on us.

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>> this apparently is too woke by the republican party. song of solomon is unacceptable to republican politics. >> -- the dangerous fanaticism, authoritarianism, and abuse of the taliban. the handmaid's tale. margaret atwood's extraordinary dystopian novel about a right-wing, misogynists movement, and of course, georgia wells 1984. because they have no sense of irony. >> congressional democrats calling out the extremism of the so-called -- bill of rights act that passed through the house yesterday. there is no chance of passing in the senate, critics argue that it would do little more than empower conservatives to ban books. congresswoman, what is behind

this so-called paris bill of rights? what is actually the agenda here? >> at the end of this week as we were considering falling to the many, it is not a paris bill of rights, it is a stunt. it is putting politics over appearance. and i say that as a parent, as a grandparent, you might hear some of my grandkids making a fuss downstairs right now, who cares so much about being a part and involved of my children's very real education. not wanting things to be censored, things may be factually important and uncomfortable. so this was an absolute stunt, a political stunt, but again, just like all the other things we have talked about, think of how dangerous it is. you talk about banning of books, and talking about a

100-year-old woman who talked about the danger of banning books and what that looks like for the rise of authoritarianism. that is exactly what is going on here, control. one segment of society's control over all of of society's children. so of course had i voted against that very dangerous stunt, and people really have to be keenly aware that it is not just, oh jeez, i hate that book. it is, don't say gay. it is really threatening the lives in the mental health of our children, and it is trying our children, and it is trying to

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that feels we are in politics. but this week we got a glimpse of it into high-profile places. the senate voted in favor of advancing a bill rippling to iraq war power acts. the white house supports the measure which, one side, would mark a formal -- we serve congress's role in launching military engagements. and on the global stage, the international criminal court reportedly intends to open to war crimes cases concerning the russian invasion of ukraine, specifically allegations the kremlin's forces abducted ukrainian children and deliberately targeted civilian infrastructure. this comes amid alarming revelations that russia is planning to station tactical nuclear weapons in neighboring belarus. who better to discuss this all with them luis moreno ocampo, a founding prosecutor for the icc. luis moreno ocampo, putting,

top kremlin officials -- unlikely to turn themselves over to the icc. what do you say to those who say that this prosecution is merely symbolic? >> well, i would like to -- look, i -- humanity -- crime -- putin is committing crimes -- the problem is -- ukraine -- and then the situation -- new york -- negotiating -- so, the issue -- commit crimes -- and the -- according the -- indict ahead of state. and -- republicans agree -- czechoslovakia -- now we have. and now we say -- crime. and president putin -- in the meantime, we have to

stop -- >> given all of that, i'm struck by the fact that president xi visited with putin this week after the icc cases broke. there was chatter in advance that maybe xi would reconsider, given the optics of that. the fact that he chose to go through with that visit -- what does that tell you? >> for me, -- china -- doing the plan -- people -- have so much a plan -- the plan -- but the plan is based -- main idea -- china respect and protect sovereignty. so, china is committed to protecting --

sovereignty -- and that -- main point -- that we are missing in the conversation. and the fact that -- china -- went to see putin a few days after -- to me -- >> so, luis, what do you make of the statements from putin that he intends to -- tactical nuclear weapons in belarus? >> that's why we need -- negotiations with the -- criminal -- because -- nuclear weapons -- so the goal could not be two -- nuclear power -- nuclear power -- understand that. and then -- nothing more, and you wait and -- should -- movement -- to see how to in this conflict tomorrow. you cannot win the -- just and the war. >> i opened the segment by opening talking about accountability. so, i want to pivot to the other piece of news that president biden has signaled his support for congress's move to appeal the iraq war aumf. talk to me about the ramifications of that measure

once it has biden's signature. >> well, i think it's very important. because the u.s. has to show consistency. the u.s. cannot pretend it's okay to keep fighting iraq while the u.s. can decide to things. to me, that was a -- war crimes. but -- aggression crime -- now. because in iraq, more than 250,000 people -- died of -- iraq war -- not only for -- war crimes committed by u.s. troops, but all of them at the -- of the war -- by the u.s.. so -- in ukraine -- iraq -- it's crucial. -- in the future for you -- in the future.

>> luis, we've got about a minute left. what would you say to those who support the icc investigating russian war crimes in ukraine, that they also should have taken certain american elected's to task for the iraq war? >> -- talk to me. -- in the case of -- because -- another -- legally -- we are moving from -- to a world where -- >> a world where accountability is coming. i think that is what so many of us want to see. luis moreno ocampo, thank you so much for your time tonight. so much for your time tonight. i work hard, and i want my money to work hard too. so, i use my freedom unlimited card. earning on my favorite soup.

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