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march 26. i am. velshi donald trump at his first rally of the 2024 presidential election sequence where he continued to air his grievances against the manhattan district attorney alvin bragg and the justice system at large, which is emerging as one of the main themes of his 2024 campaign. as images of the insurrection played on the screen behind him, trump took the stage to the song, justice for all, which is a rendition of the national anthem sung by the january 6th prison choir. that has a recording of donald trump saying the pledge of

allegiance. rally goers behind the twice impeached fraudulent waved witch hunt as trump continue to go about all the unfairness of his weaponization of the justice system, which he claimed is the central issue of our time, and quote. he even repeated the infamous line that he gave gabe and debuted at cpac this year, saying, i am your retribution. all of this, of course, is happening as trump in the country awaits news of a possible indictment in one or more of the ongoing investigations to which he is subject right now. in one of his truth social post this week, trump even called for the immediate removal of the four prosecutors leading those investigations. the men had to turn, alvin bragg, the new york attorney general, letitia james, the fulton county district attorney, fani wellness in the doj's special prosecutor jack smith. an indictment could happen as soon as tomorrow when the grand jury indictment that is investigating his role in the hush money payments made to

stormy daniels is scheduled to reconvene. not entirely certain what is next for the manhattan grand jury, but with some speculation that there is another witness that could be called to testify, including possibly michael cohen again. although cohen's attorney, lanny davis, told my colleagues that as of yesterday afternoon, the manhattan da had not asked cohen to appear again. if the grand jury does meet on the stormy daniels space tomorrow, it will be the first time it has done so since the da's office received a threatening letter with white powder addressed to brag on friday. trump's rhetoric towards brag over the last week has been incendiary and ask attorney to say the least, but as trump said out loud as rally last night, the knows that he is not what he is really against, it's what he standing. for an entire justices and that is trying to hold him accountable. joining me now from waco, texas, is and bbc news correspondent, ron hilliard. what was your take away from the rally kickoff, where this is really the official trump presidential campaign pick up

last night? >> right, it was not so much a campaign events, ali, it more so was one that was meant to galvanize thousands of people that were there in attendance in texas. but the millions of others who are watching the live stream on right-wing outlets online to galvanize them in an effort to undercut the investigation thing to him. for donald trump it is going to be anywhere to be indicted, it will come down to a jury to determine to whether or not he is guilty. but it is going to come down to voters, whether donald trump sends a republican nomination or not. when will the republican announce for the general election? and yesterday's tralee is the extent to which he has made the suggestion juxtaposition of us against them, that he is the one that is standing in the way between doom. in his own words, if he were to not win the presidency in 2024, the country is headed towards hell. this is a very dramatic

escalation on the part of the former president, setting up the stakes of this. it was this week that he called alvin bragg a scum, and i attempted, i was actually on the plane here from florida to waco texas. and then i came back with donald trump in his campaign, i had the chance, in a short gaggle with him on that plane yesterday to ask him some very specific questions about the related case. including the michael cohen hush money payment to stormy daniels, and donald trump bristles at getting into any specifics, and instant called this fake news. that we were not telling the truth. and this is a difficulty with donald trump is that his version of events lack nuance, instead, it is purely an effort to suggest the pure investigation as a whole is going to attempt to undermine his political movement, the maga movement. which is really a nonstarter to even begin to engage in any substance about the underlying facts of the case into him. >> except history tells us that

one political leaders start to use that kind of language about i am the only defense, i am the only wall between the government and you it never ends well. we are going to go for this over the next couple of hours, good to see, you thank, you as always. in palm beach, florida. i'm joined now by christy greenberg. she served for over a decade in united states attorney's office for the southern district of new york, she is a former deputy chief of the criminal division there, and thank you. i know you were here last week when this was all developing, when the rest of us didn't have any information but donald trump said he was going to be arrested. and this complicates what happened in waco last night. i think he was right to say that this was the first official campaign but it wasn't really a campaign thing this was a donald trump grievance rally. but they are very effective for him. >> absolutely, he's going back to his tried and true work. attack the prosecutors. and he's doing it again now, and, ultimately, these are

vicious personal attacks on the dna, and what is he trying to do, he is trying to distract. distract the public from the actual conduct that he may be charged with, making hush money payments to porn star to try and influence the election. to try to make sure to silence her so that it would not come out. that is the conduct in the issue, but he does not want anybody to talk about that. instead, what he is trying to do is attack the prosecutor and, ultimately, inflame his base and try to get them to either come out there. there have been hundreds of threats against the da in the past week, several of them have been alleging serious harm against him. death threats, the powder -- >> it came with a note that said i'm going to kill you. >> these are incredibly serious. it is outrageous conduct, it is not warm at all. prosecutors should not be intimidated in carrying out the course of their duties.

-- >> this is interesting, because that post to put on truth social where he had a bat and alvin bragg's picture next to it came down, very rarely does donald trump take a post down. i'm wondering whether one of his lawyers got to him. one of those lawyers was on with where we are now yesterday, and they had this discussion. i would like to eat a list of this and give me your sense of the discussion. >> it was a picture of a bat that somebody had put together that he re-posted, did he not? and the witness into the question? did he re-post it? >> however ill-advised that post was. >> apparently he re-posted, but he took it down when he realized what was in the photo. >> before the knife today damage, i don't know if that's how the law looks at these things. >> look, it was not rages post, and clearly somebody got to him

to tell him to take it down. i am sure he will say, look, it's not direct, it is not a direct threat against the da, but it is clear that he knows the intent he is putting up photos like that. he knows what we need to people who follow him. it remains that he is passively approving them to commit acts of violence. and this is interesting, this is different from the most acts that people would do, how does the prosecutor think of all of the stuff that donald trump says about the justice system in general and all of the prosecutors who we think should be removed? it's kind of wild, right? he was calling for the new york attorney general and fulton county prosecutor of the manhattan da and jack smith all to be removed from their jobs, which should be very alarming to people because he is not a mob boss. he is a guy who might be the president of the united states. >> right, and he's somebody who needs to be accountable, just like everybody else. and these investigations, they

are examples of the system working. a prosecutor saying that no one is above the law and no one should be fearful of going without fear. that is what we should do as prosecutors, they are doing their job and they don't deserve to be intimidated, and it is not just intimidation of the prosecutors. it is if this case is charged in manhattan, there will potentially be jurors if this were to go to trial. there is a judge, he is trying to intimidate everyone associated with this case and da bragg came out with a statement to his office saying we will continue to go on with our case and not be intimidated and i would expect them just to try and hold it out and continue to do the work. there is a staff of even staff being intimidated themselves. >> these are the parts of our justice system that we don't see but it is a concern, thank you so much for being here. christie is a former deputy chief of the criminal division for the u.s. attorney's office

in the summit district of new york. coming, up i will talk to the former ohio governor and former presidential candidate, john kasich. he was the last republican standing before trump took the nomination in 2016. i will talk to him about the state of his party and what to expect in the uncommon gop primary. plus, senator joni perez omission talking at a critical miss of crucial prescription drugs in united states. and the latest on the deadly and quickly escalating situation in syria, between ignited states and iran, including a direct warning straight from president biden. the latest, next, on velshi. the latest, next, on velshi. could help put them within reach. from your first big move to retiring poolside and the other goals along the way wealth plan can help get you there. j.p. morgan wealth management.

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iran are condemning the united states for its attacks and serena reportedly killed more than a dozen people. those american airstrikes which were launched on thursday hit iranian linked targets that were based in syria. u.s. strikes are said to be retaliation for a drone attack on a coalition military base in northeast syria which killed one u.s. contractor and wounded five service members and another u.s. contractor. the department of defense believes the drone to have been of iranian origin, joining me now is nbc's molly hunter who was following the story from london, molly, good to see. you tell me what we know about this. >> it has been a pretty busy 72 areas -- in that area, of course after the initial strikes in that

u.s. retaliation, we did see two more attacks on friday night, and this is according to our, colleague courtney -- according to the first attacks -- aquino gets field, at least one u.s. service member was injured and then just less than an hour later on friday night another attack was made either by a one way meng one-way man armed vehicle on the kamikaze road on the green village with as a u.s. installation in the area. we have not heard in the u.s. does not confront any additional u.s. retaliation strikes. now the top u.s. commander in the middle east, ali, general eric corolla has said that the u.s. is ready to launch more, but in an effort to kind of camp down any fears of any kind of wider escalation, he has booked a warning, but also he turns down the temperature, take a look. >> and to make no mistake, the united states does not, does not emphasize seek conflict with the ran. but be prepared for us to act

forcefully protect, our people. that's exactly what happened last night. we're gonna continue to keep up our efforts to counter terrorist threats in the region. >> now we, i think a lot of people the surprise that there are still so many u.s. forces in this area and eastern syria. about 900 u.s. troops and an unknown number of u.s. contractors, we've asked, we do have an exact number. what's different about of these tit-for-tat attacks. there are not a new u.s. force in the area faced kind of attacks on a regular basis. what's new is that there was a casualty that there was a death. that there were a number of servicemen wounded. the mission of these u.s. troops is a sensibly continue to support the kurdish -- democratic forces, continue to counter ices in the area. of course, the other big reason that there are u.s. forces in this area of northeastern syria is the iranian presidents is the fact that there are a wide

and presence of iran back troops that area. and u.s. troops in that area make them a lot harder for iran to move weapons through there and of course to their allies in lebanon and -- >> thank you as always. you fill out the story with the stuff that our viewers seem to know. good to see you, molly hunter in london for us. we've had some trouble getting from social recently, you are not allowed. a new senate study reveals major medications shortages across the country. and it's getting worse. we'll talk to senator gary peters of michigan about the help and national security risks of drug shortages. ♪ the rocks and the mud. ♪ ♪ can't go over it. ♪ ♪ gotta go through it! ♪ ♪ we're going on a bear hunt.♪ ♪ we're going on a bear hunt.♪ ♪ oh going on a bear hunt!♪ ♪ going on a bear hunt! ♪ ♪ yeah we're going on a ber hunt! ♪ -bear! ♪ going on a bear hunt! ♪ - such a good boy. ♪ going on a bear hunt! ♪ ♪ oh what a beautiful day.♪ [ dog barks ]

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in short supply in the united states. while 15 critical drug such as common antibiotics and injectable sedative's have been a shortage for more than a decade depriving sick americans of potentially lifesaving medication and forcing many doctors and pharmacists to cheat between patients. impact orange from children's for medication to cancer drugs and asthma1iqj" medication. according to the report, shortages continue to have devastating consequences for patients and health care providers including medication errors and treatment delays and in some cases, have led to doctors having to ration lifesaving treatment. the biggest concern according to the report is an over reliance on china for ingredients. posing a national security risk and leaving millions of americans vulnerable. nearly 80% of facilities that produce active ingredients for generic drugs are outside the united states of the, majority are in india and china. possible complicating the two countries has the potential to up the entire u.s. health care

system according to the senate panel. lawmakers now calling for more drug manufacturers to produce these ingredients in the united states. ross proposing a series of solutions that the federal level to address the problem. join me now is the senator gary peters, chairman of the senate homeland security and governmental affairs committee. we issued the report. this week for the second time in a row. he topped the list of the most effective u.s. senator by the nonpartisan center for effective lawmaking. congratulations on that senator. maybe because you're tech about drugs. people really. this is doesn't feel political. or at least it should be political. although in fairness, when you try to limit the amount people pay for their insulin, it did get political. that's strange. let's talk about this issue right now. how serious is it? >> it is serious. i'm glad you are talking about it here on your program. here today. as we were looking into this issue and talking to hospitals. we focus primarily on hospital drugs. we found that hospitals all

across the country on a regular basis sometimes weekly have to review which drugs are in short supply or not available that week. they need to provide medication to their patients. the patient care situation. and they have to look at other opportunities. what they find to replace the track is oftentimes less effective. and also more expensive. which doesn't make sense. in some cases, as you mentioned in the opening, particular with cancer drugs. there isn't an alternative and they need to ration medication. that's happening here in the united states on a regular basis. consumers, they're seeing it on store shelves. at their local pharmacy. the hospital oftentimes or even in a more critical situation to. particularly with the injectable types of medication. >> let's talk about -- in the covid crisis, we learn that we don't make masks. because masks are cheap things we, set them to lower level countries to make that becomes a problem. they're some arguing that we should be able to make essential things here in the united states. is that what this is or is there something more

complicated than the idea that people make these and other countries and they're cheaper? >> that's a big part of it. the initial report that we put out on drug shortages was in 2019. the conclusion in that report we said that when there is a pandemic in this country, we're gonna find ourselves in a precarious situation. to your point that's, exactly what happened on things like masks and even a sloth. just basic kind of medical supplies because -- it's a race to the bottom in that regard. you have as you mentioned, when it comes to injectable medications, almost 90 plus percent of the precursors that go into those medications are made primarily in china. but also in india. which makes us beholden if there is any kind of conflict between the countries that could come to an end which would put us in a precarious situation. clearly, a national security issue or homeland security issue. we also find that there is an addition to that highly concentrated manufacturing. especially in -- you may have only one facility.

that actually makes that particular drug and if anything happens to that facility, there is a major supply disruption. that's what we found in this report is there is not a real great transparency as to where these drugs are coming from and where gaps may exist. what we know is even if they may be cheap, this supply system is not resilient in any kind of hiccup in the supply chain can cause major ramifications for both patient health and homeland security. >> your colleague senator rand paul has blamed at the irregularly shuns for the shortage and he points to pay or price controls. can you explain what this is and whether you agree? >> we've asked our other experts. that's not the issue and actually it's the fact that we've got lower and lower price drugs which should the generic switch tends to take competition out of the marketplace where you only have one or two manufacturers that make these drugs. for the reasons the prices are low is because there are a long term contracts. medicare will enter into a long

term contract. try to bring down the cost of drugs. it's not a regulatory factories. the fact that these are highly concentrated production in either geographically or it just by the number of actual suppliers that are out there. which is causing the problem. which is why we need to have more transparency. we do need to onshore. we have to be bringing this production back. a similar will be done with semiconductors. we saw the four that we were resilient for semiconductors of being a senator from michigan, the impact on the audit industry was significant. this is life-saving. when you talk about drugs. this is about a life and death in the health of the american people. we have to make this stuff in the united states of america. that's a big part of what we're going to be focused on is that we bring this production back home? >> right now, tensions are rising between the united states and of china. does that have any impact of this discussion? >> it could. when you think about those tensions and when we are basically beholden to a chinese

for a high percentage of all of the critical ingredients that go into basically every trick that we use here in this country. that puts us in a precarious situation and certainly gives the chinese a great deal of leverage if they're controlling the supply of those precursors that go into so many medications that patients here in the united states rely on each every day. >> senator, good to see you as always. thank you for being with us. democratic senator gary peters of michigan who is the chairman of the ranking member the senate. the chairman of the -- senate homeland security committee. ranked again as the most productive senator. thank you, sir. coming up, donald trump leans into his authoritarian inclinations and waco texas last night standing up a campaign season where the stakes are no less than the future of democracy. and the rule of law. we've heard the story before. it never actually ends well. i'm joined next by two of the smartest historians i know to talk about how the trump his

cult of personality stacks up to historical extremist movements and what we can all learn from it. with the same amount of fiber as 2 cups of broccoli. metamucil gummies the easy way to get your daily fiber.

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is v for well over a year now. a year of reading fiction, analyzing poetry, digesting memories and communicating with a variety of booklet members including 100-year-old graceland with whom i spoke yesterday about her speech at a florida school board meeting and her lifelong fight for

democracy and access to reading. >> every human being is just as important as any other. our children, who maybe a little bit from the other children. we recognized by their classmates and -- >> i was honored to have her on the show. it's funnier would book banning is not slow down. it's actually increase. to the past week the, republican white house representatives passed the parents bill of rights act. a controversial bill that in theory aims to increase parental rights in the classroom. giving parents online access to the schools budgeted, classroom curriculum, reading willis and library books. in practice, the bill paves the way for the potential removal of virtually any book. robbing students of the opportunity to celebrate their first love in the pages of dante and aristotle discover the secrets of the universe. understand the painful legacy of slavery in the writing of beloved or to be moved by the

imagery of the enduring shakespeare classic the tempest. limiting students from learning developing about the understanding their identity. that is why new york congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez took the house floor to oppose the bill this past week. >> look at these books that have already been banned into republican measures. the life of rosa parks. this apparently is too woke by the republican party. song of solomon. it's unacceptable to republican politics and talking about the rights of parents in this gallery today being national and parents union is here or saying don't do this. i have a letter that i like to submit where they are asking the republican party to keep culture wars out of classrooms. our children need urgent and aggressive solutions. the american library association coming out against this republican proposal. >> our next velshi banned book

club features the modern classic of the garcia girls lost their accents by julia alvarez. already face objection in numerous states including school districts in johnson county north carolina. the book follows the garcia dilatory's family, doctor, a wife and four daughters after they flee the dominican republic for a new life in new york city. written a reverse chronologically, the reader discovers the four girls to six rows in the doing identities piece by piece. decades after its original publication, it's so resonates for anyone who's ever asked themselves what it means to be an american. to give your coffee wherever books are sold and write to us at my story at velshi dot com with your suggestions, your questions, or thousand or comments for the author julie alvarez. do not miss this conversation next weekend. coming up after a quick break, a vital conversation about extremism in america. history tells us that extremist ideological movements tend to burn themselves out but what about a cult of personality? for instance, the one centered around donald trump that's

taken over the republican party. the power of the pollutants in the life cycle of extremist movements in america is next on velshi.

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there's always a fresh deal on the subway app. like this one! 50% off?! that deal's so good we don't even need an eight-time all-star to tell you about it. wait what? get it before it's gone on the subway app! >> the john birch society began

as an anti-new deal activists movement in 1958. it was anti communist and one of the u.s. to leave the united nations. it's all the government is leading an effort to take away the liberties and freedoms that americans android. its influence and reach through quickly. just a few years after the groups founding, the so-called birch shirts had chapters of the country. they elected members to school boards. they began to cultivate some social prominence and political power but according to matthew dowd, like fracture is within the group led to its implosion of extreme facts of the group embrace bigotry more outwardly. some members resigned while others believed that the group wasn't antisemitic enough. they wanted to push it further towards white christian centered american separatism.

importantly, despite its rapid rise to political notoriety, to mainstream -- powerful conservative politicians generally did not embrace berkshire as a recall. the gop for the most part distance and sell from the group. the john berke society was associated with the political fringe. similar to other extremist movements like nausea sympathizers and christian nationalists. today's fringe movements just aren't that fringe. in fact, the key difference for these modern-day altered extremists's government complicity. the leaders of the gop are not condemning this group, they are not condemning violence for bigotry. they're not even neutral about it. election officials at all levels of the gop are today showing extreme members of the far-right of their support. of the hundreds of insurrectionists that stormed the capitol which is over two years ago, about 20 of them most of whom are violently attacked capitol police officers are being held in a d.c. person. a small convoy a trump backed republican members led by

marjorie taylor greene visited them last week calling them political prisoners. the ideologies behind the different factions of the far-right are very. whether it be defending so-called christian values or western values. or defending against quote wokeness. the through line of these groups is that they have a champion who isn't just some charismatic fringe leader, their champion is the former president of the united states who has a rule using -- war and battle and violins to rile up his supporters. >> in 2016, i declared i am your voice. and now i say to you again tonight, i am your warrior. i am your justice. and i took a lot of heat for this one. but i only mean it in the proper way. for those who have been wronged and betrayed, of which there are many people out there that been wronged in betrayed, i am your retribution. >> joining me now is matthew,

della clinical historian author the new book, for sure, is that the john birch society recognized the american. right professor ruth -- professor of history at nyu. authorize truong manna from mussolini to the president. thanks to both of you for being here, this conversation intrigues me. matthew, largely because your thesis about how these things can burn themselves out. at least for the john birch society largely did. what's the comparison, what's the lesson between the john birch society when we're dealing with right now including last night, donald trump addressing a rally in waco, texas, with that language about being your retribution? >> i want to say, be clear, there are no perfect lessons. the birch society, of course, was constrained institutionally on a much more robust democratic system. the anti defamation league the, americans for democratic action. the naacp. the justice department.

there are many government non governmental groups who believed in democracy, who defended it. i do think we saw some of that now. the justice department has jailed and convicted hundreds of people from rioters and insurrectionists from january 6th. the other point that i try to make in this piece in the atlantic is that as you said at the outset, these movements do tend to burn themselves out. the conspiracy theories draw more and more radical to the ranks including bigots and people prone to violence. you see that dynamic, you saw the dynamic of the john birch society in the late 1960s and early 1970s. my sense is that as hard as it is to believe. trump over the last six months especially since the mid term defeats in 2022. he has descended. the white nationalist dinner he had with -- and the rapper formerly known

as kanye west. the language that he's using, i think it's even more conspiratorial and violent potentially. the language he used in a 2016 or 2020. and the threats that he is making. the dehumanization of his opponents. i think these things are both very worrisome but ironically, there is a radicalization i think taking place. eventually, the ip -- these movements can bear themselves out a bed. let's explore that a bit. if true, i think matthew makes the point. that donald trump is becoming more radical. he's saying more aggressive things than he used to say. it's true that helps remove burnout, that would be one thing. but the opposite could happen. he could become the president of the the states and you've written about in people who say things like miscellany did, i am your adventure, like all trump says i'm a retribution.

when they come to power, even if not eventually fizzles, bad things that happened between those two points in history. >> absolutely. trump is milking at all these locations his victim complex. he's the victim and he is the adventure. in fact, his -- when he highlights victimhood, his popularity goes up. he's been very savvy at how he's done that ever since the mood of his possible indictment has come out. in terms of extremism. as you know i see the gop as an autocratic party. it would be -- defined maga as this extremist swing which it could burn out. none of the gop has had disavow january 6th. trump is still the front runner for the presidential

nomination. there is this phenomenon that they all are autocratic parties -- and look what happened to mike pence and they become more and more radical. trump has nowhere to go but to be more radical. you see that the list of his enemies is increasing. one thing he's done very well is -- the people who rank in the bursa sidey were the doj the fbi. all of these people have been presented -- poisoned in trump's followers mind as part of the deep state. as well as the press. >> matthew, let's talk about that. what's the distinction of the structure what's going on right now. the birch society was sophisticated, agents didn't end up getting the traction need to become bigger and more important than it did. it peaked at one point. what's the distinction here in what ruth is talking about. the maga movement does have supported with an institutional politics including the republican-led house of

representatives? >> let me be clear. the differences are vast. as areva pointed out, maga has the potential to send her the gop. it has the beating heart. there was hope. that never came to fruition after january 6th. after 2020. after 2022. that it would somehow dissipate. that clearly has not happened for a variety of reasons. in many respects, we live in a far different country with a much weaker democracy. in the 1960s, for all the problems we had, we had the height of the civil rights movement. the liberal coalition that helped to constrain some of these excessive extreme forces. especially on the far right. where today, the mass media has lost a lot of authority.

that it had back then. the parties have served ideologically. the country people in suburban and rural areas, a lot of curry -- have become really kind of angry at government, at the deep state and for a variety of reasons have immigration and republican party and this is the reason why it's optimistic -- i don't want to be overly so. the party is in the thrall i think to trump. it's gonna take a lot of time and a lot of we -- don't know what's gonna happen. we don't know these criminal cases are gonna go next. >> we're gonna talk about this more after the break. stay with me, matthew dallek and ruth ben-ghiat. we'll continue this after a quick break. velshi back in a minute.

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discussion about extremist movements is matthew dallek and ruth ben-ghiat. right, we are talking about the history the john birch society and how these movements burnout. i guess the point i'm trying to get us here is we'd happens if it doesn't. how serious isn't it's this movement. isn't filling up. i think they're a lot of people watching this morning who hope that's what happened. ultra becomes more and more extreme and fewer to fewer

people decide they're going to vote for him and this little piece of time, this one of his free passes. what if it doesn't? >> in fact, what's happened is we know -- when a party is becoming more autocratic and its political culture is changing to permit the inclusion of ideas such as violence being patriotic which by the gop and fox is in a very good at rewriting the narrative of january six. you want to look at truth coming into the party. and when we see is that there are fewer hate groups in america today the, people who track such things at the southern -- they're down from of the 900 to 700. -- have institutional power and being mainstream now if the gop like the proud boys. membership is surging. we all know that there are prominent oath keepers and anti government extremists who or --

he didn't win this election. -- these people have been mainstreamed into the gop. extremist ideologies are part of the dna and the message of the gop. which is how we also got to january six. not being disavowed but having been accepted and justified. >> january six videos playing behind donald trump last night. matthew, let's associate this. we are watching imagery of that rally last night. people behind donald trump waving reprinted flags. cars that say witch hunt on them. that's not really a political ideology. how did the extremist movements today fitted with our historical comparisons? are they more or less ideologically driven. what seems to be happening today on the alt-right's grievance for even. i don't know. does that ideology or is that not ideology? >> it should be a bit of both. it means different things to different people.

it's interesting, i have a chapter in my book titled which found because after robert wells, found of the brushes that he appeared on the meet the press. a lot of -- conservatives who support the society wrote in to nbc and -- what are your predecessors essentially and said you treated him horribly. this is a witch hunt. there is something to the martyrdom complex that i think we see. the sense of grievance that propels it. i think that there are ideas that we need to take seriously. there is a nativism. there is a more explicit racism that is taken hold in the maga movement. and isolationism. that is taken over. that's one of the points of her to make in the book is that these ideas have a longer shelf life. even as organizations may fade away or get constrained. the ideas live on and i think we're in a particularly

dangerous moment. just to answer your question. it's been a long time since extremists have been the center of one of our two political parties. and that, i think, is the riskiest kind of most perilous element for us. obviously, we can't lose sight of that. we're gonna have to see -- trump losing enough elections or maga losing enough elections. there will be hampered. we saw that in 2022. >> let me ask you this, or. some of the people these crowds are who watched it last night aren't extremist. and not be ideologically driven. but they are hearing that dog whistle which -- calls it a train whistle. he says i am your retribution. i am standing between you and the forces of corrupt government that will come and get you. people may vote for that who have nothing to do with -- not rooted ideologically in anything. >> that's correct.

that's the genius of somebody, a charismatic demagogue way trump who knows how to talk to people. striking an emotional core in them. that's the victim and the eventually comes and. they feel protected by him about they feel protective of him. and that duality has been present in -- i do want to say one more thing about why this extremist gop could have staying power. they are not working alone. the gop is embedded in a vast global far right messaging machine. trump has many helpers, the saudis, the chinese, the russians, the israelis. with a new report, they were trying to put him in power in 2016. in fact, the people who were emailing bomb threats to manhattan da alvin brad or the russians. this is a different world today

with respect to the john berkshire's. where the gop is part of a larger far-right information warfare covert operation all of that. >> interesting discussion. thank you to both of you for your discussion. matt dallek is a political -- have the john birch inside a ratifies the american. wright ruth ben-ghiat is a professor of history at nyu and the author of the -- newsletter also -- for misleading to the president. straight ahead, the latest on trump's legal troubles as a manhattan grand jury investigation and arresting the hush money payment to stormy daniels is scheduled to reconvene tomorrow. plus the state of the gop with the former ohio governor and former republican presidential candidate john kasich. another hour in velshi begins right now. >> good morning to you, sunday march 26th. i'm ali velshi. don trump held his first official campaign rally of the 2024 electn