newsletter also -- for misleading to the president. straight ahead, the latest on trump's legal troubles as a manhattan grand jury investigation and arresting the hush money payment to stormy daniels is scheduled to reconvene tomorrow. plus the state of the gop with the former ohio governor and former republican presidential candidate john kasich. another hour in velshi begins right now. >> good morning to you, sunday march 26th. i'm ali velshi. don trump held his first official campaign rally of the 2024 election season last night. in a waco texas. where he continue to air his grievances against the manhattan district attorney alvin bragg and the justice department -- which is emerging as one of the main themes of his 2024 campaign as images of the insurrection played on a screen behind him. trump took the stage to the song justice for all. which is a rendition of the national anthem. some by the january six prison acquire that in her --

rally goers in the bleachers behind trump, waved around posters that read witch hunt as trump continue to complain about the unfairness of all the investigations into his conduct. he went as far as the parkland open is asian of the justice system is quote race central issue of our time. he repeated the infamous lie that he debuted at cpac this year. i am your retribution. all this is happening as trump in the country wait for news of a possible indictment in one or more of the ongoing investigations to which he is subject right now. one of his truth social post this past week, trump even called for the immediate removal of the four prosecutors who are leading those investigations. the manhattan district attorney, alvin bragg, the new york attorney general, letitia james, the fulton county district attorney, -- department justices special prosecutor jack smith. and indictment could happen as soon as tomorrow. with the grand jury in manhattan investigating trump's role in the hush money payments

made to stormy daniels is scheduled to reconvene. it's not entirely certain what is next for the manhattan grand jury. there's been some speculation that another witness could be called to justify including possibly michael cohen. again, to testify again to the grand jury. but his lawyer told us -- my colleague last night that as of yesterday afternoon, the manhattan da had not asked cohen to reappear. if the grand jury does meet on the stormy daniels case tomorrow. it will be the first time it would've done so since the da's office received a threatening letter with a white powder addressed to brag on friday. a letter that said i'm gonna kill you. trump's rhetoric bronco the past week has been incendiary. it's been escalatory to say the least but as trump said out loud at his rally last night. it's not just brag that he's railing against. it's what he stands for. the entire justice system that is trying to hold trump accountable. i'm joined now by the pulitzer part of an internal is charlie savage. she's a washington

correspondent for the new york times. he's also msnbc contributor. charlie, good to see you. what do you make of this escalation. donald trump with the exception of one little thing retort down a post that indicated they might run -- hit alvin bragg with a bad. he's on the other election. he's leaning fully into telling his supporters that the justice system is corrupt and this is a witch hunt. >> that's right. interestingly to me is also the word peacefully and how it plays into this. viewers may remember that infamous january 6th speech, right before the riot at the capitol, he kept -- urging his supporters to march in the capital of the active fight like hell, et cetera. at one point in one sentence, he said go protest peacefully. and then afterwards, when people accused him of inciting the riot, his supporters could point to that one word in the midst of all the rest of this. thing no, he wanted him to go and make their voices be hurried peacefully. this time, he has not been saying peacefully.

he's just been saying protest, protest, protest. then there was insidious occurrence of that where are the end of last week in one of his true social posts where he talked to alvin bragg was evil and -- falling apart when he had it and they -- tell us to protest peacefully or to be peaceful or something like that. for the opposite of encouraging people to be peaceful. it's pretty naked what's going on here. >> charlie, on friday you publish the story of the republican committees are taking up trump's fight against the manhattan da alvin bragg. he wrote to the demand for information for the city prosecutor about a potentially imminent and abatement crossed and line. it also foreshadowed a broader struggles to combat house republicans also go after other local and federal prosecutors leading inquiries into mr. trump. including investigations into his effort to cling to power after the 2020 election and his retention of classified documents after leaving office.

couple of sentences but a lot in there. and it is sort of central to this idea the weaponization of government. congressional committee going after prosecutors. >> that's right. it is something we haven't seen before. which is testing the power of congress's oversight authority to the level of trying to get inside an open criminal investigation or criminal case. jim jordan is the leader of that so-called weaponization of government subcommittee. in earlier since the letter to the federal justice department wanted to get documents about the special counsel resignation into biden's holding on of some classified documents after you left the vice presidency. the justice department said ecuador saying we don't do that, here's why we don't do that. trying to read that in constitutional authority of the executive branch. now, he's going after along with -- the local prosecutors information. obviously who's weaponizing

government. meaning the investigators. the local prosecutor alvin bragg's attorney sent back a letter thursday saying we're not gonna appear in testimony. you don't have the right to do this. even the funnel just apartment isn't do this. by the, way we're a state authority. we have some pretty issues here as well. another much longer letter they went yesterday from house republicans for the first time really starting for the legal precedent. trying to provide some hooks for why they had jurisdiction. looks to me very much this is all preparing for what will be a subpoena and then probably a -- which will define the scope and whether congress can do this. it's all very new and cutting edge and pretty interesting and no have implication beyond the present fight. >> charlie thanks, for joining us. charlie savage washing correspond at the new york times. the author of the important books power worries that relentless rise of presidential

authority since secrecy and take over. the return of the imperial presidency and the suppression of american democracy. here with me now is my old friend of the former congresswoman, elizabeth holtzman. she was members judiciary committee that voted on impeaching richard nixon. she's also the author of several books including the case for impeaching trump. good to see one person. but a long time. >> great to see you too. >> every time i'm talking to you, bad things are happening. i have to say -- the bad things are happening now or very worrisome. there are the series of investigations of donald trump that may lead to indictments. the language coming out of donald trump and the support that charlie just mentioned that he is getting from congressional republicans. that did not happen in watergate. that was not -- that's why richard nixon ceased to be the president of the united states. congressional republicans said what he did was a step too far that piece of history since we erased. >> i think it's really important to step back and remember a couple of things.

the number one, richard nixon was named an unindicted coconspirator by the federal grand jury. the idea that presidents are beyond the reach of the law is non set and i grandeur he wanted to indict richard nixon. the representative from doing so because the special prosecutor said you don't have the authority. the fact is they main tim and undated a coconspirator. that was how -- for us to realize the shame of having a president named as an undated coconspirator. that's what the whole watergate cover-up. let's talk about where we are now. the frame of the constitution was so worried about power and the misuse of power that they broke up not only checks and balances in the center of government between the states and the federal government to preserve liberty. and what we have now? other republicans always talked about states rights, states power. they want to come in and subvert the constitution

created which was basically a pretty solid wall between state power and federal power. it can go up to the supreme court. yes, the for government can close things for providing money in so forth. the fact of the matter is that something is really -- that is the power to preserve more in -- law and order and that's what's being attacked here. by the republicans in congress for no reason other than to protect a former president united states who may well have committed crimes. >> donald trump's calling for the remover of for prosecutors. one of them is federally appointed jack smith. the other three are state people. alvin bragg as the new york district attorney. laetitia james the new york attorney general. fani willis is an attorney, discreet ernie in georgia. this point that charlie makes is -- that you're making here, you were just returnee -- >> and in congress. we never even thought about going in and trying to destroy or obstruct state prosecution.

that's what's happening now. this is really an effort to obstruct a state prosecution or a state investigation. >> speaking of an effort to obstruct. that image of donald trump posted of him with a baseball bat and alvin bragg. came out came down quite fast. but it was posted and donald trump's lawyer was talking to reverend al about this. as a former prosecutor, i want to get your take an affirmative returning emanated take on this. >> we don't have it. we're pull it up in a second. every prosecutor i've spoken to since that happened said it came down because for once, maybe don trump listened to a real lawyer who said you can't do this. guys like me think of you will threaten the prosecution all the time. we've gotten out. let's play it. >> there was a picture with a bad that someone had put together that he re-posted.

did he not? >> -- about to answer the question. however ill-advised that post was, riposte that -- >> does that mean that he didn't -- >> apparently, he riposte. it i know he took it down when he rose was about a photo. >> i'll step you in the back but i took the knife out? >> can -- he said it before the knife did any damage. this is a serious matter. >> not just the picture. but think of the picture that his words, trump's words create. death and destruction. that's what he's predicting for prosecutors and for this country and for his opponents. that's the aurora. i was surprised it took -- we had 900 murders in brooklyn every year. 900. nobody ever dared, nobody ever dare to send me any threats. and i don't know vinnie other

prosecutor -- >> all the prosecution talked about few days. >> i'll tell you something. trump needs to be held accountable for this. americans need to understand what he's saying. if we take the law of violence instead of law and order. then we are in anarchy, that we are in chaos. we destroyed our country. we saw problems not with a bat and not with violence. we saw them in our courts, we solve them in a peaceable way. if we don't, our country is destroyed. what kind of an example does he set for our children, for america. to use violence against people who disagree with the, for the people who disagree with you. >> the people who disagree with you at, donald trump alums them in quite a while. they are the government, they are these prosecutors. they are opponents, they are whistleblowers. they are even witnesses. the stuff he's been talking about with michael cohen over the last couple of weeks. >> the problem with donald trump as you can get rid of

every one of these people and there will be dozens for a place them. he can't stop the rule of law. he can't stop the wave of justice. he can. and he can try but he can't. you go to jack smith, there are ten other jackson is to take its place. you get rid of alvin bragg, there are ten others. >> the implication, the threat. he was saying i didn't tell anybody to engage in death and destruction. i said that if you indict me, death and destruction will it result. this is how he doesn't get indicted. this is how we substitute legal process. he doesn't really say. he just. implies >> we know him now. we have an example in january 6th. he said it will be wild. he didn't say you should be wild. he said yes, let's fight to get this to bring america back. he didn't say you have to beat up and kill five police officers and injure 140 of them. but we know that mo now. he's not gonna fool any jury. i think he should be held

accountable. not just for all of the other things he's done but this effort to intimidate and to threaten prosecutors because this gets outs with fundamental. if every one of the people i was prosecuting whether it was for a shoplifting or a burglary or murder came after me had, their families come after me. not only me but the police. the judges. where would we be in society? we'd be in total anarchy. that's not america. if you want to make america great we, have to have the rule of law. >> important your voice here. you know a lot about these things something better attorney. having been a member of congress and having worked through what a great. good to see you again. liz old smitten former -- as we said, former district attorney in brooklyn. that still out on velshi. it's more than likely that you all have your money in a bank account. fewer than 5% of americans do not have a bank -- after the pro failures of two major banks, do you trust that your money is safe? that's a trillion dollar question.

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right, now a record number of americans have bank accounts. that is according to a study from the f. d. icy. fewer than 5% of americans don't have one. so odds, are almost all of you watching on a big count, and deposit money into it. and whether it is a few hundred dollars or a few million dollars, when you put your money in your account. you are giving life to the american banking system. the entire banking system is kept alive by two main things. the first is people or depositors who have more money than they need. the others are borrowers, people who don't have enough money to cover what they need for things like houses or cars. the banking system takes the money from those depositors and offers them interest as an incentive to deposit their funds of the bank. a borrowers have been able to use that money in the form of loans on which they pay interest that earns profit for the bank.

that money essentially joins on a large pool of dollars in the bank. when you don't need $1, 000, the values reflected in your bank, but those dollars actually join the pool, and likely put to use immediately in the form of a bank loan to someone else. that might sound if he, but there is really no cause for alarm, because if you want to withdraw your thousand dollars right, now you can. it would get pulled from the pool all the same. you might be wondering why this pool system is important, and it's because the only way americans can make a big purchases in a timely fashion is because of this exchange. according to the u.s. department of housing and urban development, the average price of a house in america at the end of last year it was $535,800. the ruin had to buy a house in full without loans, they would likely have to wait decades to save up all of that money. but luckily, we can all get loans thanks to the surplus of money that is held as deposits in banks. , now on most of us get our money into our accounts and review that money is safe, otherwise, what is the point of

even using the bank. why not to stash your cash in a lumpy mattress we can constantly keep an eye on it. the answer is because you are an interest by keeping your money at the bank, because the system does generally work. it is actually very safe. that, is if the wheels of the banking system continue to turn as they are supposed to. this is the banking ecosystem. people put money into the bank, the money gets added to the pool of funds. depositors earn interest on that money. borrowers then get loans using that money, the pool stays full, and that goes on. the only way we run into trouble is if depositors get scared and start pulling their money out of the bank. now, if you have up to $250,000 held in a bank account that is insured by the fdic, the federal deposit insurance corporation your money is safe. if you have more than that amounts in a given account all of your money won't be insured by the fbi meaning that your faith is not as secure if something goes wrong with your

bank. but security interest is what the system is all about. the banking system survival relies on people trusting that the bank will not lose your money, that is not a conservative ideology, it is not a liberal ideology. it is just the way things have successfully operated in this sector for decades. but just because it is a supersafe business model does not mean that the government regulation wouldn't help make the process even stronger. the government, in my opinion, should guarantee that all of the money you put and work hard to deposit in a bank is safe by assuring that every dollar you deposit is in short. that is not the way it is today. to do that, you have to regulate that pool miami he sure the flow of money isn't interrupted. having to guarantee every last dollar wouldn't fact force regulars to make sure that the banks to do anything too risky with that period of money. thanks wouldn't that make fewer risks and make a bit less money, but they wouldn't fail. there wouldn't be any runs on banks, and it's a wonderful life would have some major plot

holes. whether your bank account has $1,000 or million dollars, and if your money deserves the same protection. if you guarantee people deposit, they will keep coming and banks will stay safe. so it's decided, we'll park even deeper into parking spaces so people think they're open. surprise. [ laughs ] [ horn honks, muffled talking ] -can't hear you, jerry. -sorry. uh, yeah, can we get a system where when someone's bike is in the shop, then we could borrow someone else's? -no! -no! or you can get a quote with america's number-one motorcycle insurer and maybe save some money while you're at it. all in favor of that. [ horn honking ] there's a lot of buttons and knobs in here. what's on tap for the caggiano's? well, this family of long island brewers harvests their own ingredients, on their own land. mowing every blade,

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it'd be better if you did it. about making banking deposits safer in terms of making the banking sector feel more safe. -- however, she doesn't think we would know how to fix it. she served as the chair to the federal deposits insurance -- during the 2008 financial crisis, she is the founding chair of the systemic council that has offered multiple books, including saving the bull by the horns, and a series of children's books about the banking system. so nobody knows more about this in this particular issue than you do, sheila, thank you for being with us. >> great to see you, thanks.

>> why not your all deposits just because that is what makes the system work? >> well, a lot of reasons. -- if you could see unlimited deposit insurance, then [inaudible] [inaudible] it could be a bad thing, but that might also happen. you could see short term treasuries, especially depending on what kind of interest rate that bank might have terms of a deposit. it would benefit primarily wealthier people, which as you mentioned earlier, 250,000 is significantly more coverage and [inaudible] [inaudible] finally, i'm worried about that moral hazard.

because the examination process is not perfect. the good news is already guaranteeing to insure deposits, they are great people in banks, but it'll catch everything. and we really need people behind them to monitor deposits, and taking a look at that thing to make sure that it's sustainable. and [inaudible] [inaudible] actually increases market, and that will be to raise banks capital requirement, into issue a certain kind of debt or available debt, to converted to equity, and is there to protect and ensure the process that if the bank fails. some of the largest banks, not the mid size, something that you are thinking and if they had larger cushions of capital with unsecured debt, people out there would understand bankers are the first to take losses before you get deposits.

>> i think there are different ways to address this, and you are suggesting an interesting one. part of what you said though is that the large banks do have closer examination. they have a disappearance truckers in place, which is why we don't really worry that bank failures will extend their way all the way up to the top. but back to 2008, we were a little bit shocked at the size of institutions that ended up failing, that you are able to either find buyers for or fix in an orderly fashion. but you got to the point. banking is a very profitable business. even if the banks don't too risky things with the money, they can just make money off of that simple chart that i showed people. you deposit your money, you get an interest rate, they take that money, they landed out at a higher interest rate, you could take no risks and be very profitable at a bank. >> yeah, that's right. but this is an industry. but now, if you are making loans, you are getting a much

higher yield. the profit rates are going up, and. that is why banks are traditionally profitable. and now we have escalating interest rates, and we have what is called a conversion rates now. so shortly, the cost of buying short term is actually more expensive than long term so short term rates are higher than long term rates which is completely upside down because it is a financial institution that borrows short term -- that can be a problem, so i do think that [inaudible] . you need the pressure that yield to come in. because that also can make a very profitable banking model unprofitable if it cut off to pay off your deposits then you're getting on your loans. and that's what we saw during the [inaudible] it is a risk that you are not going to be able to.

a couple of banks are going to see that. and >> that was a problem silicon valley bank, but there was a really active lobbying movement from those smaller amid signs banks to say this area regulation is very difficult for us. so how about you don't regulate us the same way and can we at least reverse that and say i know it's onerous and i'm a pro business guy, i don't want things to be unusual onerous but i do want banks to hold up as well. >> i don't either, so i don't think there are major rules that apply to these things. i think in my only caveat without is that i think interest rate roles, including management, is something all banks need to be focused on right now. and even the largest banks, some of them have pretty large portfolios of these securities. but they have not marked down and give us capital. so i really think that we have much higher regulation, and i have to say, one of the most

stables [inaudible] [inaudible] . that is another problem that we don't need to deal with in our system. it is it with times like these where the problems just keep getting bigger [inaudible] . >> sheila, thank you so much for talking with. us sheila is the former chairman of the fdic. donald trump is back at it with the insults, the threats, and the rooted uncover nicknames. what he saw on the 2016 campaign trail and carried him to the white house in the wetter republican party, i talk to someone who has gone toe to toe with trump and wants to see his party do better.

>> there's more velshi on the way, but stick around for msnbc 's newest program, inside, with jen psaki. she's speaking with someone who served as attorney general under president obama for ten. years plus, back will, frost of florida, on his weekend routine, at preventing gun violence across the agenda in congress is the focus of his very first bill which was unveiled later this week. he seeks to create a federal office dedicated to gun violence prevention. in their interview, the 96 -- 26 to congressman explain why this issue was important to him. >> one of the things you are really bringing to the table is your activism on gun safety. you became an activist at 16, how is it impacting your argument on your safety effect

to find out that that is how you grew up during active shooter drills, something that people 20 years ago did not live through. >> it just makes the issue kind of at the forefront of everything i think about. i ended up getting a lot done after the sandy hook shooting because i don't want to get shot at school. three years later, i survived a moment of gun violence myself, a few months before that, in pulse nightclub, where we lost 49 lives in the heart of orlando. so the issue is one that is prompting on my mind because i think it is an issue of my generation, and a generation cannot be defined by shooting into mass shooting. and when i think about what connects gen z, democrat, republican, no matter who you are, is that trauma. trauma filled generation. >> trauma phil generation. again, inside with jen psaki airs today and every sunday at 12 pm eastern. it streams the next day on peacock. again, trump called the 2024 election the quote, final battle, will he be fighting it against the republican governor ron desantis. we are going to discuss the

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gathered, waco texas, last night to hear donald trump speak his first official rally of the 2024 presidential campaign. but for their presidential campaigns would've been an opportunity to lay out a vision for the country, and trump's case, was a 90 minute soliloquy about his legal woes, climaxing into vows of vengeance and retribution. at the unsurprisingly took aim at rhonda santa and his potential 2024 opponent, taking credit for his 2018 bid for governor of florida. >> when a man comes to me, tears in his eyes, he says he is almost at nothing, and he is finding someone that is a 42 and he is almost $30 million in the bank. he is at almost nothing, he has no cash, and i say, i can't give you an endorsement because you can't, when can you?

sir, if you endorse me, all when. please, sir. endorsed me. >> there are a few was familiar with trump's attacks, bullying, and stoking anti sentiment in his far-right base that run against. him in 2016, ohio governor john kasich was punched last, remaining republican challenger. when he dropped out of the race in may of 2016, kasich had almost one in his home state of an ohio facing increasing pressure to get out of what has become an ugly and often insulting race. the former governor had made it to a point or had made a point to stay above the fray during the campaign and mostly refrain from making insults or direct attacks against opponents. he considered decency an asset, something that allowed him to work across the aisle, before a republican party that was growing increasingly extreme. some saw him as out of touch with the direction that his party was taking. on wednesday, may 4th, 2016. kasich was scheduled to travel to the washington area for fund raising efforts. while on the play at columbus

airports, according to see if this reporting at the time, he had a change of her and told the crew to taxi back from the runway. and he picked up the phone, he called for of his closest friends, quote, my heart is not in this. he would reportedly tell them. that same to, he bowed out of the race, making trump the party's presumptive nominee, and since then, kasich had become a staunch trump critic. he voted for president joe biden in 2020, today, kasich represents an endangered brand of conservatism. despite being a lifelong, hard-line conservative, signing one of the most restrictive antiabortion vance in ohio years before roe v. wade was overturned. kasich still finds himself alienated from a party that has been overtaken by the far-right. kasich still finds himself on the outside of the current republican party, reflecting on his ear since his campaign, kasich told guardian, quote, not that i mind walking a lonely road, i have done it most of my career, but i would be good if i had more people who are willing to stand up and say. that is the wrong direction, end quote.

joining me now is the 40 -- two term governor of ohio, john, kasich's the new york times bestselling author, anyways we can bring about big change. he is recently joined msnbc as a political analyst. governor, good to see you again. thank you being with us this morning. >> just two things. first of all, i heard that the trump soundbite here sitting in the studio. i don't know whether that was trump or whether that was an opening from saturday night live. i was laughing at it. secondly, the cnn's -- don't believe the scene is story. my heart was never not in it. when you get to the point, i was never the case. when i got to the point where it was mathematically impossible for me to stop him. i was on a plane getting when you do a fund-raiser. there was no way i could go down there into a fund-raiser and take money from people when i knew it was basically over. when i got out of the plane and i wanted the building, first person i called was my wife. then after that exhaustive effort to try to be president, i went behind the building.

right where the airport was by myself. and i had a good cry. then after talking with some of my friends in advisories. i got in a car and i went to my daughter's school. where they came and gave me a hug and i said girls. it's over for this time. don't believe everything that they report, ali, it's not always accurate. >> that's the benefit of having you here to tell us the story. let's talk about -- the idea that it's mathematically impossible is what keeps a lot of people out of these races. particularly against donald trump. it may be that he's becoming more them at a medically possible to beat him. the truth is he has either through his threats or his insults or his momentum or these rallies for the name-calling. he manages to keep people out. who are the rise might be in. it looks like there are some possibility he can do that again. others like olivia troye -- get of says we weathers for british centers. the party still going in the wrong direction. >> this is a different time.

in 2016, he was given almost a billion dollars for the free press. one of the networks would actually cover a podium. an empty podium before he even got there. this is a different time. ali, think about this. we the -- republicans have really lost the last three elections. they lost the presidential election, the midterms, they were dropped special elections losing. this is really a ticket for losing. trump said you're gonna get tired of waiting. the republican party should be getting tired of losing. let's remind everybody that a party would -- never my master. i'm an american long before i ever thought of myself as a republican. i happen to be a republican because i believe the government has a place but it's usually should be a last resort not a first resort. do i think that somebody could beat this guy? the parties can have to wake up and decide whether they want to win. if they don't want to win, they keep doing this. they're gonna keep losing. if trump's friends from

president god bless was if he would run item believed he could win and thank god he would lose because this is the wrong direction for a country. if you happen to be a republican, it's the wrong direction for the party and for conservatism. always fear that what people think should happen. last month, politico reported about sort of members of the gop trying to plot against trump. writing the big fear is that like in 2016 a number of challenges to trump will jump into the primary and lingered too long. splitting the field in allowing trump to win and some of these top republicans are meeting with potential candidates in talking about if they want to run they should by all means do so but they should also be prepared to drop out well before voting begins in order to make sure that the gop puts their best candidate forward against biden. your thoughts on that analysis. >> i don't know who these people are. if they're a bunch rich people, i will tell you about the way that they work. they're not interested in creating a winner. --

there is a tendency that i want to go to the cocktail party and be what the winner. i don't to be there or be with some no name. it's not their decision to make about whether somebody wants to compete because sometimes you can run for office based on a principle. whether winning and losing its critical. but it's not all it is. i've been in more races for people thought i couldn't win and i ended up winning. i don't like people counting me out. when you run for president, it's a little different, it's a little challenging. it's very difficult. i'm not counting anybody out at this point. i think it's a big mistake. >> we want to talk about the strategy on the other side of the break. stay with us. we're gonna continue this conversation. fell she's back in two minutes. fell she's back in two minutes. in just 12 days. be fearless with olay hyaluronic body wash and body lotion. moderate-to-severe eczema.

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governor, john kasich. really china somebody see is a political contributor. good to see you again, governor. let's talk a bit about where the republican parties going. there are the fears about donald trump and his ilk in the anti-democratic stuff that's been going on. there are a lot of american something to the republican party is out of touch with american sentiment particularly in post the fall of roe v. wade in some of the remarkably draconian things aren't going on in terms of reproductive health across the country.

you were in early player in the restriction of abortion rights in this country. there are a lot of people who point that out. that they're not sure your the guy to be telling them about what the republican party needs to be in the future. >> ali, anything i can tell you is when i ran for reelection, in ohio at the tie, which was not red but really purple. i won 86 out of 88 counties. why is that? i privatized economic development we grew 500,000 jobs. i went from a deficit of about eight billion dollars to two or three billion in the surplus when i left. you have to look at the whole range of things that people do to try to bring people together. i did not by the way signed the heartbeat build here in ohio. it's not just that. when you go into these areas and you begin to -- win 86 at 88 counties, that's unprecedented. clearly, people that were happy with what i did. i expanded medicaid, 600,000

people could get health care. i reform to health care system. not only do they cut taxes for people at the top but i created also significant tax incentives for people who made a lot less money because i've got 100 prizes, they all out arise. there's so many issues that we got in the middle of to make government more -- >> if you are the presidential nominee, a lot of democrats who said they'd vote for you. let's jess -- abortions become a much bigger issue in the last year than it was in 2016. there was federal protection for abortion. given where we are now, and given where republicans have decided to be in some places on this topic, how do you think about this differently than when you're the governor? >> i think ali that the answer here is one of my friends pro-lifers said. why do we come up with something that's a reasonable compromise on this issue? that being around of the fact that is people --

what is the limit what you don't want to do that? you don't want to have abortion in the -- there are ways in which i think people and -- you have to listen to people. and so i think there are ways to protect the unborn but probably a way to compromise and work your way through that. let's see. it's in the hands of the states now. the states can work through -- there are literally women who are worried that if something goes wrong in the middle of a pregnancy, they can't get that care. there are doctors who are her miscarrying i can't reach it because y'all get arrested or all get -- would you say let's see where the states go? generally speaking not good. >> some states are gonna get it right. what's most important in any, all of the states. is that women are going to get the kind of great health care they need at the -- it's not enough to just do that and then ignore what happens to the child and what happens to

the mother afterward. again, the situation in this country is you have 50 states, 50 places where people can make choices. if they make choices that the voters think are too extreme, they'll be -- will have to see where this all settles down. a lot of issues today that are out there with the public is kind of thinking about the people and thinking about how they feel. a lot of these issues will settle down overtime. just being one of them. >> what about that annual rate victim had to leave ohio? >> i think that's outrageous. i think there should be exceptions for rape incest and life of the mother for sure. i don't agree with that. >> but you got a bunch of you who are not champions who don't share your view in the republican party on this. >> yeah, look, it's a party now that needs to focus on what they can do to provide opportunity for everyone. the republican party should be a party that is bringing reform to the kind of things that people wanted this country.

that includes as i said health care, prescription drugs, immigration. what we're gonna do about the rising debt. how we preserve social security. how we preserve medicare. you're not hearing all that. what you're hearing from the loud voices in the republican party are attacks on donald trump. they're stepping on their own message. that's why they keep losing elections. at some point, if they don't change, they're gonna continue to lose elections and not a win. the language of donald trump use last night when he used to cpac about i am your retribution. how does that sit with you? >> how do you think it's a three, ali? why don't you gas? warning thing i think about that? >> how much more -- it's a whole new level of alarming to me. -- he'll see everybody as an enemy. >> first of all, i'm not a trump enemy. i may pose to him. i don't hate anybody. that's not the way it is to be.

when i hear that rhetoric that chauvin hearing since 2016. remember, i was the first republican significant person to fight him. i didn't go to the convention. i even endorsed joe biden. ali, you know what i think about that. he's a divider. and the people that supported him, many of them are extremely angry. if you listen to them, they feel totally ripped off. if all you do is encourage that and not give them hope, you end up with people like donald trump. it's very dangerous where we're going at the country. let alone at the party's secondary. it's about the country. >> governor, good to see you. thank you for being with us today. governor john kasich. former governor of ohio. msnbc political analysts. author of a -- ten little ways we can bring about big change. that is from. thanks for watching. stay where you are inside with jim psaki begins right now. the former president held a campaign rally in waco, texas. as a grand jury in manhattan