three nato countries that belarus borders. because it shows that president putin is facing, you know, concerns and questions as to how to tighten his grip more around ukraine. so, for right now, u.s. nuclear posture not changing, but it is going to be interesting to see if this does happen, how the white house and the government's approach to this could change. could we see more aid packages to ukraine, more sanctions potentially on russia or belarus? >> all right. nbc news white house correspondent allie raffa, thank you so much for joining us this morning. we'll certainly be speaking to you again soon. thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" with us on this busy monday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. 2024 is the final battle. that's going to be the big one. you put me back in the white house. their reign will be over, and america will be a free nation

once again. if we don't win this next election, 2024, i truly believe our country is doomed. i think it is doomed. i will prevent world war iii, which we're heading into. which we're heading into. we're heading into world war iii. this will be a war like no other. >> donald trump -- >> cheering for that? >> -- dark messaging to supporters in waco, texas. we'll have much more from his rally, including his comments on the manhattan d.a.'s hush money investigation, and his praise for vladimir putin. a lot of really creepy moments, as well. meanwhile, the russian president says he is making plans with an ally in the coming months that nato is calling dangerous and irresponsible. we'll get expert analysis on what is happening in eastern europe from former supreme

allied commander of nato, admiral james stavridis. also ahead, a live report from mississippi following a deadly tornado outbreak that left a trail of devastation in one of the poorest regions of the country. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, march 27th. with us, we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. the host of msnbc's "politics nation" and president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton joins us this morning. and the founder of the conservative website "the bulwark," charlie sykes is with us. >> some of us were busy this weekend, but none more than reverend al sharpton. >> whoa. >> just taking apart donald trump's attorney bit by bit, piece by piece. reverend al, that was a master class on how to cross-examine an attorney who, let's face it, has been trying to have it both ways

over the past few years. >> i really -- i have a lot of respect for him in the past, the attorney tacopina. i couldn't understand the man that fought for civil rights, that fought to get rapper meek mills and others out of jail, standing up for someone who is a racist and a big jnbigot and so who has undermined the law and put in danger this district attorney. i mean, what he is doing is an absolute threat to this man and his family. we had a big prayer session for the district attorney in harlem over the weekend. he just won't stop. this former president continues to wage the danger battle over this man and his family. >> yup. >> i was stunned that even his lawyer wouldn't even denounce that. he said, "well, i can't take

responsibility for what he says." but you can denounce it. you cannot continue to allow this man to be threatened like this or sped up a situation where there could be some harm coming to him and his family. >> calls a black d.a. an animal. here's murdoch's "new york post." >> they've moved on. >> "bat hit crazy," for good reason. i have to say, it is really surprising. you can't even call this out. this is so violent. we'll talk more about that, mika. >> and trump is in the middle of his kitchen sink strategy, where he is throwing everything at the world. trying to distract and throw something things to distract all over the place, which is what we saw out of waco. some really disturbing presentations by the former president. >> yeah. >> just totally disturbing.

>> charlie sykes. >> anti-democratic. >> charlie sykes, we'll get to it in a second. this reminds me of the 1960s, when you would have people on the far left glorifying radicals. in the '70s, glorifying radicals who committed acts of violence and bombings. here, you have donald trump glorifying people who rioted, who beat the hell out of police officers, who tried to overturn an election in the most violent way possible. that's now been stitched into the -- it's been stitched into his presentation, along with qanon anthems. >> you know, i was watching some of the videos over the weekend. bear with me for a second. it is almost as if donald trump is concerned he has been too subtle in making the various threats about death and

destruction and rretribution. he is upping the ante. in case you hadn't gotten his message with the baseball bat with the prosecutors, his threats against other people investigating him, he holds this rally and chooses waco as the venue. then, you know, has that weird -- what you're showing there, that weird, you know, ceremonial embrace of the january 6th insurrectionists. if there was any doubt in anyone's mind what he was saying, the kinds of threats of violence, the apocaleptic future. if people are shuffling, thinking he is going to go away, this is the man who is increasingly, i think, likely to be the republican nominee for president. he is doubling down on the conspiracy series, on the threats, on this cloud of

violence and menace which he continues to feed. not only is he not backing off from it, all you're getting now is the grievance and the threats. in case anyone hasn't gotten the message, what he fully intends, that was on display in waco. a lot was not new. it was same old, same old. but i don't think we should overlook how, in fact, he is overtly escalating this. what you're showing there is just truly extraordinary. those of us have been saying, you know, the president is not only not backing away from january 6th, he is amplifying it. he is celebrating it. he is encouraging replays of it. that's what you saw down in waco over the weekend. >> he celebrated it. again, celebrated it with a group of people who stormed the capitol and beat the hell out of cops, four who died following

the riots, and celebrated it with this crowd. again, it's -- >> look at the signs. >> again, he can have all the -- these things he wants to have. but every time he celebrates riots -- let's take his face off the screen, please. every time he celebrates riots, every time he celebrates the people who are rioters, insurrectionists, who got thrown in jail, he is just ticking off more voters. we had to say briefly, this weekend, jonathan lemire, something very strange happened. mika brzezinski watched a basketball game. >> it was so good. >> cheering loud for fau and miami. >> miami. >> we have a south florida i-95 series possibly coming up. what a final four. >> yeah. the most unlovely final four we've ever had. i also made that choice, mika, a choice for my own mental health, and did not watch the trump

rally live saturday night. >> there ya go. >> actually went to an islanders game following the ncaa on my phone. did so again yesterday. here's what we have, joe. we have a number nine seed, florida atlanta, playing a number five, san diego state. nine versus a five. the other half, a five versus a four. miami and uconn. uconn is a four seed this year, but they've won some championships recent years. they're the one team that's not a surprise. the others? the other three, for all of them, this will be their first time in the final four, which is remarkable. we have a three out of four chance for getting a first-time champion. >> i like the coach of miami. >> yeah, games are great. we could have a miami and fau final, which could be a governor ron desantis final, i guess. good hoops regardless. >> call it the sunshine state final. >> yeah. >> thank you. >> wow. it really was an incredible tournament. i have to say, alabama game this )jt

as i've ever seen. no movement. they just stood there, let one guy drive to the basket, get rejected about 27 times. fau did absolutely everything that alabama did not. it was bad for illinois from the top to bottom. i'm still trying to figure out that offensive scheme. fau. miami, you have to love miami. what a team. great team spirit. they love each other. you can tell they do. who -- what a comeback. >> we'll have more on all of this in a moment. look at that, it was incredible. so much fun. we have a lot of news to get to, including breaking news out of israel. prime minister benjamin netanyahu is expected to halt his controversial judicial overhaul plan. now, this is in response to mass protests that have erupted across the country. that is according -- this plan to halt overhaul is according to israeli media.

tens of thousands of people poured into the streets of tel-aviv and jerusalem yesterday following netanyahu's decision to fire his defense minister. >> look at that. >> the official had said that in a televised speech that the judiciary reform plan had created a risk to the country and posed a security threat. he was the most senior leader to publicly call for the suspension of the legislation. the bill would give the israeli government more control over selecting judges and deciding what laws the supreme court can rule on. opponents say it will hurt israel's democracy. parliament was expected to vote on parts of the legislation this week. we will be following this story closely and getting a live report ahead on "morning joe." these are live pictures right now. this is a huge story, and the people of israel are definitely speaking their mind. >> i have to say, charlie sykes,

you have seen some extreme right-wing governments across the world move away from democracy and embrace nationalism. actually, we saw something last week out of india, where you had really modi's last challenge. again, these are live pictures out of israel right now. modi continuing to consolidate gangs by kicking out gandhi from parliament. in hungary, of course, we all know the sordid scene and how conservatives have embraced the illiberalism there and the hatred of western democracy. you look at what's happened this weekend in israel. democracy in that form of government, in that country, very strong. the protests have just been overwhelming this weekend. talking about shutting down the airports, all modes of transportation, and the strikes have brought this country to a standstill.

in response to an indicted prime minister who basically wants to undermine the judiciary system so he can get away with whatever he wants to get away with. >> this is a genuine constitutional crisis. i don't think israel has ever gone through something quite like this before. you know, there are people who believe authoritarianism is on the march. the democratic forces are in retreat all over the world. their time has passed. well, here, you're seeing the ability of a democratic nation to push back against an attempt to undermine the rule of law. this is an attack on the rule of law, on the independent judiciary, and these peaceful protests have shown the ability of the israeli people to push back against this. this is a huge humiliation for benjamin netanyahu, and it ought to be a warning sign to authoritarians throughout the world. if they tamper with the independence of the rule of law, democratic peoples will push back. >> you know, jonathan lemire,

there are so many parallels with donald trump. netanyahu and donald trump, of course, extraordinarily close allies. i think it was almost like netanyahu thought he was going to school on donald trump. thought he might be able to do it better than donald trump. he's getting pushback like donald trump did on january 6th. >> we can't overstate the sizes of these protests. the union of lb health care system, transit workers, airports are shut. there's no way to get in and out of the country right now by air because of these protests. it was spontaneous. you're seeing huge crowds gather. more expected later. a statement of strong condemnation from the white house in terms of some of the efforts here from prime minister

netanyahu's efforts to push through the courts, and the resignation of the defense minister seems to be the tipping point. protests have been simmering a few weeks here, joe and mika, but certainly in the last 24 hours or so, it's gone to another level. there is expectation that netanyahu, after firing his defense minister, will have to back down somewhat in his plan. we'll see what the day brings. >> we'll be following these live pictures out of jerusalem and across israel and get a live report coming up. let's turn now to wisconsin, where recovery efforts are under way after a powerful tornado devastated parts of mississippi and also alabama. at least 26 people were killed in friday's storm. the ef-4 tornado had winds over 166 miles per hour. it flattened buildings and crushed vehicles. president biden yesterday declared a federal state of emergency, freeing up funds to help with recovery and relief efforts. joining us now from silver city,

mississippi, nbc news correspondent maggie vespa. maggie, what is the latest there? >> reporter: well, mika, first and foremost, you can see kind of the status of communities here in mississippi, in and around silver city. as you know, we've seen many a scene of devastation after a national disaster. we pulled up to what used to be a house, obviously, and we gapped. you can see the cinder block lining of the foundation here. this apparently looks like it used on the garage. that's a riding lawn mower in the middle of the debris. it's wrecked completely. we haven't seen anybody come back to see their property. we've been here the last couple days. people here are just slowly starting to get a grasp of the damage. as you said, brutal weekend of severe weather across the south, starting with friday's tornado, now deemed an ef-4 by the national weather service. winds close to 160 miles per hour. on the ground for more than 60 miles across mississippi, into

alabama. here in silver city, this little community of just 300 people, about 330, three people were killed in this tornado on friday. the overall death count, as you said, at least 26. search and rescue efforts are ongoing, so the number could rise. federal officials were on the ground looking at scenes like this yesterday, kind of getting a scope of the damage, to estimate the disaster relief that will be allocated to the worst, the hardest hit areas, after president biden declared the state of emergency. after all of this, the weather just keeps oncoming. we had another round of storms with tornadoes touching down in alabama last night. i can tell you, it was a chilling round two for people here who are just praying that the weather lets up and that help comes soon. mika. >> nbc's maggie vespa, thank you so much. we so greatly appreciate it.

reverend al, just scenes of heartbreak. i remember posts of hurricane katrina going over to mississippi every day. we spent thanksgiving 2006 in waveland, a city completely wiped off the map. i'd never seen anything like waveland before. again, everything just completely reduced. hadn't seen anything like that until i saw scenes coming out of a town here that also practically wiped off the map. in the poorest part of the poorest state in america, what a tragedy. >> wlen you stress that the poorest part of the poorest state, that is what really, really makes it difficult to see. how and how long it will take to rebuild this. i had a congressman on "politics

nation" last night from mississippi, and much of the damaged area is in his congressional district. he said, you must remember, these are people that had low income in the beginning. now, the little they had is gone. you don't know how the recovery is going to be able to take place. and how long it will take. this is the worst you can imagine. >> we'll be following the search and recovery efforts. still ahead on "morning joe," much more on the manhattan d.a.'s probe into donald trump. we'll take a look at house oversight committee chair james comer's argument for why the former president shouldn't be investigated. plus, the latest -- >> by the way, that guy is so -- oh, my lord. i want to be careful with what i say. >> let it speak for itself. >> i'll let it speak for itself. >> it will speak for itself. >> embarrassing. the latest from ukraine, as well, as russian president vladimir putin says moscow will station nuclear weapons across

the border in belarus. and president biden issues a new warning to syria after last week's drone strikes against coalition bases housing u.s. personnel. we'll get expert analysis from syria and ukraine from retired four-star navy admiral james stavridis. also ahead, lawmakers in north carolina have passed a bill to expand medicaid in the state. governor roy cooper will join us ahead of a signing ceremony this morning. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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pretty sky this morning. >> mika, help me out here. >> yeah? >> looking at my twitter feed. >> yes. >> your brother is at the top of it here. >> yeah. >> of course, i speak polish, but i just want to make sure they typed it correctly. >> oh, this is a different -- >> unveiling of a plaque in memory of the brzezinski family in poland. >> that's nice. >> is that the town where your father was born? >> yes. wonderful. that's where many of the refugees crossed through. that's nice. new york city grand jury is expected to meet again today as manhattan d.a., alvin bragg, weighs whether or not to charge former president trump over a hush money payment he allegedly made to porn star stormy daniels in 2016. after posting about death and

destruction, bragg received a death threat to his office. it reportedly said, "alvin, i'm going to kill you." it was sent with white powder later deemed non-hazardous. trump kept up his dark rhetoric during a campaign rally in texas the next day. he was in waco exactly 30 years after the infamous standoff there. >> for seven years, you and i have been taking on the corrupt, rotten and sinister forces trying to destroy america. they've been trying to destroy it. they're not going to don't, but they do get closer and closer with rigged elections. they get closer and closer. we've been the ones in this fight standing up to these localists, standing up to the markists and communists. that's what they are. we don't even talk about the socialists anymore. i am your warrior. i am your justice.

and i took a lot of heat for this one, but i only mean it in the proper way. to those who have been wronged and betrayed, of which there are many people out there that have been wronged and betrayed, i am your retribution. i took some heat. they said, who is our biggest threat? is it china, sir? is it russia? i said, no. our biggest threat are high-level politicians that work in the united states government. like mitch mcconnell, nancy pelosi, schumer, biden. >> first of all, it's hilarious technique, where he just makes sh -- stuff up. he said, i was asked the other day, a dog came up on the street and said, sir, a cat came up to me and said, sir, what is your greatest threat, sir?

because he is donald trump, because he hates america, because he has a dark view of america, because he always talks about how terrible america is when he's not running up, and he preferred vladimir putin to u.s. presidents, yes, he said that on our show, because he runs down our military when he's not in the white house, of course, his answer is that president xi and vladimir putin are brilliant, are great, are smart. did it again in this rally. jonathan lemire, once again, he goes back to, who is the greatest threat to western civilization? america. leaders in america. same speech where he praises president xi and he praises vladimir putin, once again saying they were brilliant. we can make a thousand arguments about how what they've done over the past five years has been devastating for their countries. he then says they're not the greatest threat.

in fact, xi and putin are pretty great in vladimir putin's eyes, always praising them. it's mitch mcconnell. it's nancy pelosi. again, he names two people who aren't even majority leaders or speakers of the house anymore. he just throws names out to just say, yeah, it's america that's destroying the world. >> yeah. there aren't too many voices in the united states these days that praised vladimir putin, but donald trump is one of then. he does it consistently. >> still doing it. >> he's done it for years. he ran for office in 2015/2016. we know he did it while serving as the president of the united states, siding with russia over the u.s. intelligence agencies. he continues to do it even now after putin has turned into a global pariah for his invasion of ukraine. he does it with president xi, as well, as tensions flare up to the highest level in decades between beijing and washington. this is trump always playing to the strong man, always

telegraphing which leader he'd like to emulate, and, of course, attacking the forces he says in the united states are out to get him. the speech was dark. it was scary. it was a condemnation at great lengths about the investigation into him, which he continues to truth social about as we speak. it's once again him suggesting that, you know, he's going to side with strong men, perhaps, even over the top decorated government officials here in the united states. >> yeah. you know, i guess -- i suppose it could be dark and scary, so long as it can be stupid at the same time. it was dark, scary, stupid, moronic, to be going around praising president xi, to be going around praising vladimir putin. once again, blame america first. always, he's a america of the blame america first crowd when he's not in the white house. republicans blame america first. would rather have the russian military than our military.

would rather have russian intel than our intel. you name it. again, the praise, the lavish praise for dictators, for people who go out and kill journalists, people that go out and kill political opponents, that's who donald trump praises every time they get a chance. it tells you, again, what leader he'd want to be and tells you what he respects more than anything else. but, again, it is all very shortsighted. he spent most of this speech talking about himself. >> yeah. >> he spent most of the speech talking about, oh, pity me. just whining the whole time about how terrible his life is. he is such a triggered snowflake. >> he has a lot of legal problems. i mean, i would be -- >> but the thing is, suck it up, donnie boy. it's all your fault. >> but -- >> this is what you've been doing. you know what? it's all coming home. >> the documents case. >> it's coming home to ruse.

the documents, the latest for him, the january 6th insurrection. bad for him. the latest in georgia is bad for him. he whins the entire time, makes it about himself, and at the very end, he tries to wrap it in a ball and say, i am your retribution. i've talked to you for an hour and a half. by the way, people started leaving halfway through his speech. they're like, okay, he's just talking about himself and not our lives. then he goes, don't worry, this is not about me. this is about you. i'm your -- no, no. people want to hear about their future. >> that's not going to scale. >> exactly. he wants to hear about how he's going to make their lives better, their jobs better, their country better. >> in an interview with cnn, james comer called the manhattan d.a.'s probe a political stunt and explained why he felt trump shouldn't be investigated. take a look.

>> what do you say to bragg who says you're trying to stop a charge from happening even before you know of evidence? >> what the d.a. is trying to say is what you just quoted. he said, stay out of local investigations. the problem with that is this is not a local investigation. this is a federal investigation. he is investigating a presidential candidate, not to mention former president of the united states. >> well, he is investigating, as i understand it, potential violations of state crimes. >> even at that, look, let's just be honest here. i mean, this is about politics. this is a presidential candidate. this is something that if it needs to be investigated or prosecuted, it should be done on the federal level by the department of justice. this is a presidential candidate. i don't believe that bragg would be doing this if donald trump were not running for president. that's something that we would like to ask mr. bragg, as well.

would you be doing this if he weren't a declared candidate for president of the united states? >> well, we will answer your question for you. by the way, kwhen you're when y through your teeth repeatedly, do yourself a favor. don't say, "let's just be honest." you're lying through your teeth. you know you are lying through your teeth. >> but does he? i'm not sure. >> this is -- >> i'm not sure. >> this is one of the great things about -- >> i'm not sure. >> yeah, he does. this is one of the great things about republicans, though, the trumpist republicans. >> does he? >> he does. this one knows very well. this knows a lot, this one. he knows a lot. anyway -- >> i think -- >> anyway, these republicans, they come from a far and distant land. they never had video tape when they were growing up. they don't realize that the images and the words that are

said in the past can come back to haunt them. he said, the only reason why he's doing this, why, he wouldn't do this if donald trump weren't running for president, as if he forgot all the times before trump announced his latest run for the presidency, everybody was predicting he would do it. why? so people could claim, like comer did, that the investigations are political. oh, they're only doing this because he is running for president. he won't do this if not. we said for a year that if donald trump ran and announced earlier, we said, it could be before investigations, that were currently moving forward, were connected to a campaign.

the political campaign wasn't going when the investigations were already going. he couldn't get his kids to be there. he had to get out there as fast as possible because he didn't know when the indictment was coming. last summer, by the way, in a piece in "rolling stone," it read this, quote, in recent months, trump has made clear to his associates that the protections of occupying the oval office are front of mind for him. just like netanyahu in israel. quote, it's pretty clear that trump understands the presidency to be his get out of jail free card. again, before he announced, "the washington post," quote, trump will announce his run if for no other reason than he craves the limelight and he thinks it will be harder for authorities to prosecute an active candidate.

that was in june of 2022. mr. -- what is the guy's name. >> comer. >> homer comer. "the guardian," quote, trump reportedly told advisers that declaring a run for the white house would not -- who you would -- would allow him to strengthen his argument that other criminal investigations against him in new york and georgia are politically motivated. mika, call of this -- again, what comer is saying is such a lie. everybody saw this coming miles away. they're up there going, oh, this is only because he is a presidential candidate. as if we didn't have video tape. as if we didn't have these articles saying, no, the reason he is going to run is so they can use this stupid argument after he runs. >> and, by the way, here is what you said back in 2019. take a look.

>> i have been saying for some time, because people very close to donald trump had been saying a couple years ago they did not think he would seek a second term. he wasn't enjoying the job. it was too ugly. >> desperate. >> now, not only is he going to seek a second term to avoid a jail term possibly. if you listen to the testimony yesterday, he is going to, once again, do a win-at-all-costs campaign. it may even get uglier in 2022 than in 2016. because donald trump's freedom may be on the line. think about that. we have a guy that is running for re-election, so he won't get indicted and sent to jail. >> i don't know what planets we were on there. >> very blond hair. >> the lighting was bad. >> yeah, okay. >> looked like that really tall guy that goes around and -- >> this has been something that -- oh, wow. >> look at this.

who is that guy that was -- >> i think i dipped my hair in some bleach. >> no, no, i think it was the light. >> wow. i have no idea what's going on there. charlie, charlie, we're going to forget our high school pictures there from just, like, six months ago. [ laughter ] bad things happen when you wake up at 3:30 every morning. >> it's true. >> charlie, that prediction of mine, 2019. >> yeah. >> that was four years ago. you were saying the same thing. i'm a dumb country lawyer. it's not like that was saying the same thing. he's running for re-election to avoid prosecution. now, comer stands up there like there's no video tape, "well, he's only charged because he is running for president." >> donald trump thinks obstruction of justice worked in

the past, so it's become a central tenant for people like representative comer. save that video tape where he is saying that, well, this is -- should not be a local prosecution. this should be the department of justice. watch what he says when the department of justice moves against donald trump. what's interesting about these guys is that they will simply shift their ground any time that it is useful for them. republicans will be for states rights until they're not. they're more local control until they're not for local control. these are the same folks, of course, who had no problem with the fact that donald trumpbe in sitting president. now, he condition be indicted as an ex-president or when he is running for office. there is nothing subtle about donald trump. there is a through line here. what you're seeing is this full-on frontal attempt to obstruct justice by intimidating justice. when you showed the rally in way owe, i enjoyed the fact they had

pre-printed signs saying "witch hunt." they printed up the signs. this has become central to the trump campaign. he's making no bones about it. as you pointed out, joe, he spends almost the entire speech talking about his own grievances, not talking about the future or other people's problems. all about his own problems and how he can use this candidacy to get out from under the, you know, being held accountable by the rule of law. >> there's also a piece here, everything you said, joe, is absolutely right in your predictions in 2019, they're clear, but we are talking about alvin bragg, the prosecutor that, a year ago, would not go forward with the case. so if he was this great political prosecutor that was just going after trump for the reasons trump says, he's the prosecutor that was attacked by even his own staff. two people left the office.

one wrote a book saying we should have gone forward. clearly, there is evidence that has come to alvin bragg that made him go forward at this point. the illogic of what his lawyers are saying, one on my show and the same one on "meet the press," is donald trump didn't give money back to his lawyer to cover up the election. he was going to be embarrassed by his family. if you were audited or someone with elections come and it doesn't look like an election thing, his wife doesn't come and order his books. the way it was paid is really leaning toward this was the coverup of an election reimbursement or for that purpose. >> right. again, whether you're talking about new york, whether you're talking about georgia, whether you're talking about the

documents case, whatever you're talking about, again, in 2022, in december of 2022, you had everybody talking about how trump was going to run to avoid prosecution. we were saying it even back in 2019. it looked like he was going to lose. anyway, he had to run for re-election. he has to run for re-election again because he is going to get indicted at some point. he knows he is going to get indicted. he would be going out trying to make money, doing nothing but trying to make money right now in foreign countries all over the world if he didn't know that he was facing an indictment. if he didn't know charges from the justice department, charges all over the place were coming down the pike. as you said, just think about it, this weekend, we get news, i think it was cbs. >> robert costa. >> yeah, bob costa broke the news this weekend that the investigation around january 6th is looking tough. then on friday, we get news

that -- more bad news that you actually had a judge pierce the attorney-client privilege because it is obvious that a crime, likely, the standard is likely a crime was committed in that case with trump and his lawyer. >> legal fears were littered all over his presentation in waco. even the words, "i'm your justice, i'm your retribution." what are you talking about? yourself. russian president vladimir putin, the man trump praised in his weekend rally, says the kremlin plans to station nuclear weapons in belarus. putin claims the move would counter american deployments of nuclear weapons in european countries. nato responded to moscow's move, calling putin's rhetoric dangerous and irresponsible. >> let's bring in four star former admiral james stavridis. chief analyst for msnbc. we say ukraine going to russia

is a no-go. why not belarus? if they want to get engaged in the war, are the ukrainians free to go into belarus? >> well, first and foremost, the ukrainians called this one. they said, putting nuclear weapons there effectively makes belarus a hostage in this crisis. that is what putin is trying to do. the russian history here has, over centuries, coveted belarus the same as it has ukraine. this nearly tightens the noose around the neck of that nation. it's led by a dictator as bad as putin, lukashenko. the two of them deserve each other. in fact, like jerry maguire, they complete each other. i feel for the people of belarus here. bottom line, joe and mika, don't wake up this morning in great fear here. putin moving nuclear weapons around is a sign of really

desperation on his point. he is trying to shake up the table. he is trying to convey a sense of how dangerous he can be. there's some truth to that. the bottom line is, he is not, in my opinion, going to use a tactical nuclear weapon. he knows it'll spook the herd. there goes china. there goes india. there goes nigeria, south africa, brazil. no one is going to stand with putin if he uses nuclear weapons. so i look at this as more saber rattling than anything else. >> well, i'd been looking at a lot of the moves over the past two, three months, even china's visit, moscow. it seems everybody is positioning themselves for an eventual negotiation. that includes moving nukes into belarus. he is trying to strengthen an extraordinarily weak hand the russians are holding right now. >> absolutely correct. you know, putin, we used to say about putin that he was a good tactician. clever on his feet.

maneuvering quickly. but a very bad strategist. now, we can say he is not only a bad strategist who is selling his country down the international rat hole here, he'll end up a very junior partner to china before this is all over, he's turning out to be a very bad tactician, as well. this move is not going to help him. back to the conversation we were all having earlier about leadership. we saw on display in waco, texas, a leader dealing with fear and anger. that's what vladimir putin does. napoleon, i love to quote napoleon, joe, for possibly obvious reasons if you've seen me in person, but napoleon said, "a leader is a dealer in hope, not in fear, not in anger." deploying those nuclear weapons, that's a leader not only in fear but showing fear. >> admiral stavridis.

good morning. wanted to shift gears and get your take of what we saw in syria escalation there. a u.s. contractor was killed. some service members injured. we heard from president biden at the end of last week while he was up in canada, saying the u.s. will act forcefully to protect americans if something like this were to happen again. give us -- remind viewers who sort of maybe even forgot about the u.s. presence in syria, where things stand, and what is your degree of concern that things could escalate into further violence? >> can i say those words? we used to talk about them all the time. the islamic state. it sounds so 2016 to bring them up. but they were in tanks driving toward baghdad. they were just a few kilometers outside of the capital. they'd taken huge chunks of terrain in syria and, of iraq. they were a forest fire. we stepped in alongside many

other nations. there were 77 countries in the coalition against the islamic state. we stopped them. here's the bottom line, it's like those forest fires out west. when the burning stops, you've still got embers on the ground that can kind of flare up. that's why it's smart to keep a few hundred u.s. special forces in iraq, working with iraqis, putting pressure on the islamic state. what you're seeing now is tit for tat back and forth with iran entering the picture. i'll close with this, jonathan. all of this happening, concerningly, with the backdrop of events in israel. our greatest partner, ally and friend in real turmoil now about domestic ppolitics. not a good time for that to be happening while we are pressing in on the islamic state. >> let me ask you quickly, admiral, about a package i saw

last week. we showed last week, richard engel out of iraq. you brought up some troops in iraq. we have a few in syria, as well. richard, who was an extraordinary reporter during the iraq war, very tough on the united states for the many mistakes that we made and the tragedy of that war, he gave a really hopeful, a really hopeful report from iraq. talked to a lot of young people who said, "we are free. it's not perfect here, but we are free. we have the freedom and the ability to hope and to do what we want to do." far different than how things were before 2003. i'm just curious what you're hearing out of there, out of this tragedy. is hope possibly coming out of this tragedy? >> i think it is. and iraq suffers from many challenges, including divisions in their society between curds

and sunni. saddam hussein held it together but at enormous cost. an awful dictator in the worst possible sense. two psychopathic sons. a complete hell in a big country. yeah, they went through a lot of pain. we went through a lot of pain. i think on the other side of this particular fire, iraq can emerge. they're not beholden to the iranians. they are making oil. they are controlling the islamic state. there's a lot that is good going on in iraq today. perhaps some green shoots out of that forest fire. let's hope. >> yeah. you saw the american tourists there. wasn't that interesting? >> yeah. >> retired admiral james stavridis, thank you very much. charlie sykes, thank you, as well, for being on this morning. >> thank you. coming up, the u.s. is preparing to announce a deal with mexico to counter fentanyl coming across the southern

border. nbc's julia ainsley joins us with her exclusive reporting next on "morning joe." s to your. - are you a certified financial planner™? - i'm a cfp® professional. - cfp® professionals are committed to acting in your best interest. that's why it's gotta be a cfp®. (pensive music) (footsteps crunching) (pensive music) (birds tweeting) (pensive music) (broom sweeping) - [narrator] one in five children worldwide are faced with the reality of living without food. no family dinners, no special treats, no full bellies. all around the world, parents are struggling to feed their children. toddlers are suffering from acute malnutrition, which stunts their growth. kids are forced to drop out of school so they can help support their families. covid, conflict, inflation and climate

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now to an nbc news exclusive. the u.s. is set to announce a deal with mexico to combat the massive a amounts of fentanyl coming across the southern border. let's get details from homeland security correspondent julia ainsley. julia, what can you tell us about this deal? >> reporter: we know the large amount of fentanyl ending up in the u.s. starts from mexico. two cartels have become majorly involved. this is the result of months of negotiations between u.s. officials in the biden administration and mexican

officials. we expect a deal to be announced as early as this week. it would allow mexico to send more of its own law enforcement and military to try to disrupt some of the fentanyl manufacturing, go after the top leaders, and to try to basically cut off finances from allow people to make so much money off of using fentanyl and cutting that in other drugs that are ending up in the u.s. but mexico is getting something in return. during the negotiations, from what we understand, mexican officials said, look, americans are dying from fentanyl, but mexicans are dying from firearms coming from the u.s. to mexico. the biden administration agreed to do more controlling and tracking of firearms going south from the u.s. to mexico. >> all right. nbc's julia ainsley, thank you very much for your reporting. still ahead on "morning joe," we'll be joined by one of the many federal prosecutors who are condemning the violent rhetoric against manhattan district attorney alvin bragg. we'll have the latest on what is

happening in israel right now following a weekend of mass protests there. we're back in 90 seconds. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ only pay for what you need. when that car hit my motorcycle, ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ insurance wasn't fair. so i called the barnes firm, it was the best call i could've made. call the barnes firm now, and find out what your case could be worth. ♪ call one eight hundred, eight million

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i would like to go on record by saying i think this is a colossal mistake, if they bring these charges. not this one. yes, he's done a lot of bad things, and i'm sure he did this. everything they accuse him of doing, he did. first of all, it's not going to work. it is beginning to be rocket fuel for his 2024 campaign. it is going to look like maga nation like, oh, you know, you tried with mueller. you tried with ukraine. you tried with january 6th. now, we go to the porn star, really? you're down to that? >> we either have the rule of law or we have no rule of law. the rule of law does not take into account if that might make you a martyr to somebody. i'd rather have the conversation b what is the law? what exactly are we saying that he did? hid lawyer went to jail for this same situation for a couple of years. what is the crime? is it a crime? >> there are people who say it is selective prosecution, that this would not -- >> everything is selective prosecution.

the reason why donald trump become popular in the first place is the citizenry had become fed up with the lack of accountability for those in power. >> comedians bill maher and jon stewart giving different takes for the possible indictment of donald trump over hush money payments. welcome back to "morning joe." your thoughts on that? >> rev, i'll go to you on this one. we had the mueller report, and he was not exonerated. mueller said he wasn't exonerated. doesn't say trump is lying. even those writing in esteemed newspapers aren't writing in opinion pages by going, oh, it was a hoax. no, mueller said time and again, may have committed obstruction of justice here. may have committed this crime. we can't do anything because he is president of the united

states. their argument is, trumpists, you can't do anything when he is president of the united states. you can't do anything when he is ex-president. you can't do anything if he runs for president again, knowing the threat of indictment hangs over him. basically, their argument is you can never hold donald trump accountable for breaking the law. i'm clearly with jon stewart here. we either are a nation of laws or we're a nation of men. either no man is above the law, or donald trump is the exception to that rule and he is above it. again, i've said it before. i'll say it again. i can't believe i'm havingto say this. if members of congress had done this, had used money and funneled money to a porn star they were having an affair with to keep it quiet a couple of days before an election, they'd be charged in a second. i saw members of congress charged for so much less than

this. in the end, you either agree that we're all equal under the law or we're not. donald trump's argument seems to be there is forever, forever an exception to every law for me. >> that is really what is at stake here. are we going to have a system where any and everyone is accountable or not? that's clearly what we're dealing with here. i think jon stewart raises the right point. let us not forget that part of the reason that his lawyer, michael cohen, went to jail is on this very case. clearly, he couldn't have been allowed to plea to something that was not true. then you have to turn around and say that what he went to jail for was false reasons, and the fed would have to correct that. in the face of this, joe, i can't emphasize enough, rather than donald trump trying to defend himself or trying to say this or that, he is literally

threatening the prosecutor. to repost a picture of him holding a bat to the prosecutor and saying that death and destruction will come if i'm indicted is to stick his finger in our eye while we're talking about accountability. so you're not even dealing with anyone that is trying to even show some kind of reason. he is literally threatening the prosecutor, saying, this is what's going to happen. there will be death and destruction if i'm indicted. i'm not trying to embellish what he said. what is exactly what he said. >> well, again, let's show "the new york post" again. you're not embellishing it. nobody on this show is embellishing it. rupert murdoch's "new york post" calls it, quote, deranged. deranged from the "new york post." deranged trump threatens violence against bragg who gets a death note.

bat hit crazy. he has lost it. "new york post" even noting that. >> jonathan lemire still with us, as well. joining the conversation, editor of "the financial times," ed luce joins us. >> ed, we've been talking about, starting on friday, when we got the news out of india that gandhi, the -- kicked out of parliament. his last national figure, opponent. modi gets him kicked out of parliament there. you see how conservative, grossly, how they continue to worship a guy who hates liberal democracy, western democracy, and says he is an illiberal, orban. you see what's happened with netanyahu in israel. who thinks he is going to school on donald trump. if you look at what is going on

in israel, this looks like, just as january 6th backfired on donald trump, it looks like the indicted prime minister's efforts to gut the court system there, blowing up in his face. >> yeah. i mean, it's a fascinating moment for populism around the world. it's not a good moment. israel, it's more than just peaceful protests we're seeing. we're seeing something like a popular uprising. mass civil disobedience. strikes, airports not working, the largest trade union in the country has said it will go on strike unless netanyahu backs down. it's a regime change moment potentially, a peaceful regime change moment for israel's trump. if you like, trump is america's netanyahu. netanyahu has been doing this for a lot longer. you're right, this is a logical culmination of the populist who does not want to be held to

account. i wish we could say the same of india. gandhi, you know, has been debarred from parliament. he's the only serious opposition figure, though not an effective one. pretty much zero chance that congress will deprive narendra modi of power next year in india when they have their next general election. unfortunately, when's happening in israel is not -- shows no signs of being echoed in india. if you're going to get to the donald trump question, i do have a slightly different take to jon stewart. i don't know whether you want me to talk about that. >> go ahead. >> i agree with you entirely. nobody should be above the law. i do think there are a couple of pragmatic questions to be raised over this one. the first is, if bragg does bring charges against trump over the hush money payments, his star witness is going to be michael cohen.

somebody who has repeatedly changed stories and lied and admitted to having lied. and who would, therefore, be a mouthwatering prospect for the defense to examine. second, there is no precedent under new york state law for prosecuting something where the secondary crime, the one that you would really do trump for, is a federal law. in this case, federal election law. this would be a risk by alvin bragg. if that risk backfires, if it is thrown out by judges or a grand jury, then that's worse than not having brought these charges. >> but that's the second charge. let me stop you on number two, though. >> okay. >> if new york residents get arrested and get charged for stating a couch is worth $5,000 instead of $1,900 on insurance forms, and they get charged and

prosecuted for false business records in the first degree. if they get charged and prosecuted for taking things back to lord & taylor's that they didn't buy and getting a refund or store credit. if they're charged for that, yet donald trump, who lies about $130,000 payment to a porn star a couple days before an election, or a week before the election, he's not charged for that? i don't understand. why are there two different sets of laws? because everybody says there's not precedent. there is precedent. there is precedent for being charged for falsifying business records in the first degree in new york state. it happens all the time. bragg has done it, i think, over a hundred times since he's been there. they may not get the second charge. they'd certainly get the first

charge. it is really not unprecedented. this happens all the time under bragg, does it not? >> it happens. remember, cy vance jr. refused on this. department of justice refused. i don't know what bragg's charges would be, and i'm not a lawyer, but i do know that people who, like you and i, think trump ismonstromonstrosit threat to the rule of law, needs to be held to account, hang on, if you bring a prosecution that backfires is worse than not doing so at all. in regards to the falsifying business records, you're quite right, people get prosecuted for this but it is a misdemeanor. in order to get trump, you have to link it to a felony. that'd be federal election laws. that's what the department of justice declined to do. >> i disagree.

i completely disagree with that, mika. i mean, presidents are kicked out of office for high crimes and misdemeanors. all right? i completely -- again, this is not unprecedented. again, it is important for us to understand, we don't know what charges are going to come. we don't know what bragg is thinking right now. we don't know what evidence he has that he didn't have when two prosecutors quit, saying he should have charged trump a year ago. >> there is a problem if you have different, you know, entities and different cases colluding, working together on timing. the bottom line is, our legal system and the belief that no man is above the law is in place for a reason in this country. >> right. >> you know, donald trump is a threat to that. anybody who pushes the boundaries of the law threatens our system. he's done it countless times, to the point where you have people who have been, you know, studying our country for years and talking about these issues for years, saying, well, maybe

this time we should let him go. that's not how it works. >> no. >> it's not how it works. >> by the way, jonathan lemire, it doesn't work in the way that -- again, you follow the law. it's not like, oh, well, this may not be as politically juicy as that one over there. i'm saying, for people thinking, oh, you just want donald trump to be in -- no, i just want the law to be followed. if he doesn't get indicted in new york, i don't care. my dad doesn't change one way or the other. if that's what the d.a. decides, that the charges ultimately aren't worth it, or that ultimately he didn't break the law, great, that's what i want. i want donald trump to walk in manhattan if there aren't charges to bring against him that should be brought. i will say, though, for everybody freaking out, whether he does or doesn't bring it in new york or not, the charges are coming in georgia. i mean, i'd be stunned if the charges weren't coming in

georgia. the charges are coming in the documents case. you actually have judges now saying it is likely that trump and his lawyer committed a crime.likely. a federal judge saying it is likely they committed a crime in obstructing the return of those documents. you look at what has been happening, the reporting from bob costa at cbs, what has been happening now. man, i think things are looking tougher for donald trump. even in the january 6th case. manhattan, listen, ten years from now, whatever happens in manhattan is going to be a footnote to all these other cases that are coming down the pike. maybe first but no need to freak out about it. i just want d.a. bragg to follow the law. >> i believe you said the over/under on indictments was 2.5, over. still looking pretty good, joe. right, we don't know what will happen today. the grand jury is meeting this

afternoon. they're slated to meet again on wednesday. we don't know if they'll consider the trump case, if charges will come this week, next or if at all. certainly, if there is a criminal matter committed, it should be investigated and then charged. no person is above the law. yes, there are political ramifications. that is a separate question. there are democrats who are nervous about this particular case. but it is only one of four, as you laid out. the legal peril for trump does not end even if this manhattan d.a. declines to prosecute or if the case is less serious than some of the others. still, this is just one of four for the former president. it will be history no matter what does happen. yes, we can see down the road whether it helps in the gop primary, it may, or helps in the general election. it almost certainly will. right now, it's the facts at

hand. d.a. bragg has made clear he is doing his due diligence. this is a complicated case. michael cohen, yes, would be the star witness, but he said he lied at trump's behest. that is factored in, as well. we should know more potentially this afternoon, joe and mika. >> all the world is a stage and the men and women merely players. d.a. bragg, his job is to look at the law and prosecute. >> yeah. >> his job on that stage is not to try to figure out, what are the political ramifications of this? that's why when everybody is speculating, oh, what are the political ramifications, if a d.a. is sitting around worrying about political ramifications of a prosecution, he shouldn't be d.a. that simple. >> manhattan d.a. bragg is not backing down from his investigative duties, even after the threat against his life. in a statement over the weekend, the district attorney pushed back against continued efforts

from house republicans to obtain documents and witness testimony transcripts from the manhattan probe. bragg rejected those requests on saturday, writing in part, quote, it is not appropriate for congress to interfere with pending, local investigations. the unprecedented inquiry by federal elected officials into an ongoing matter serves only to hinder, disrupt and undermine the legitimate work of our dedicated prosecutors. >> good for him. i mean, they're really trying to do in manhattan what netanyahu is trying to do, in a sense. >> i know. >> interfere with the judicial system. >> joining us now, former federal and state prosecutor, taly farhe weinstein. i hope i got that right. he signed a letter condemning the violent rhetoric against bragg. good to have you on the show. sir, what do you make of the conversation we're asking about

all the political ramifications, the security ramifications of a potential indictment. do they have any potential of having a role in the decision to indict? >> good morning, mika. they should not have a role in d.a. bragg's ultimate decision, and, you know, i think it's important to separate one's views about the wisdom of bringing this particular prosecution from the separate issue of the violent rhetoric against d.a. bragg. when i look at the list of the signatories of the letter i joined, it includes former prosecutors who are in diverse professions now, who have diverse political views, and who i think would have disagreement among them about this particular prosecution. but they know that the threat of brute force against a public ser

servant and the rule of law has to be condemned. you know, i think they also know, many of them from personal experience, as i do, that threats against prosecutors are more common than you would think. they're scary when they come even from someone with less reach than donald trump. they're enormously burdensome on law enforcement, to make sure the system can continue and people can do their jobs. so they really have to be cut off, you know, going down that road as soon as possible. it is important to seek out. >> tali makes a great point. you look at federal judges who are threatened, killed, whose family members are shot at the door. you look at what happens with prosecutors and the threats they're always under. the fact we have a former president of the united states that is causing these threats -- >> even over the weekend. >> -- into the judicial system, causing these threats to happen to a d.a., this stems -- as tali

stems, this sends a chill through all judges, prosecutors, d.a.s, all state attorneys, and through those offices, whether they are republicans or democrats, cone conservatives, liberals, this is dangerous and playing with fire. >> we know the danger is real. reverend al, here is an exchange you had on "politics nation" with one of president trump's lawyers about his violent imagery and social media posts. >> we have an obligation to denounce the rhetoric and what has happened to alvin bragg. we had a prayer rally for alvin bragg this morning. this man and his family could be under threat. >> what someone said to bragg has nothing to do with donald trump. >> how do you know that? >> donald trump would have nothing to do that. >> donald trump wrote "death and destruction if i'm indicted." >> i'm -- >> he announced he was going to be indicted tuesday. >> i came from -- it came from

leaks. >> he was holding a bat. >> let me explain that. >> just a minute. there was a picture with a bat that someone had put together. >> right. >> he reposted, did he not? >> so -- >> you're a witness. answer the question. >> i'm about to answer the question. >> did he repost? >> however ill-advised that was, reposting that -- >> does that mean he reposted it? >> he took it down when he realized what was in the photo. >> i was stabbed in the back but took the knife out. >> you can't unring the bell, as judges will say, once the evidence is before a jury. you can't unring that bell. you can't pull it back. everybody has that image. donald trump knows that. they have the image of the baseball bat. that's one of the reasons "the new york post" ran it yesterday. but, you're right, thank you so much. he tries to limit -- and they called trump deranged, "the new

york post". murdoch's "new york post" called trump deranged. joe tacopina, he is telling you, oh, he put the post up then took it down. glossing over the fact that -- you didn't let him gloss over the fact that donald trump was talking about death and destruction if he got indicted. the death threats have started pouring in. >> the death threats started pouring in after he talked about death and destruction, after he had reposted this with the bat next to the d.a.'s head. and this is dangerous. this is even going beyond whether you think the case is strong or not. which, again, we don't know what the d.a. may have. i mean, don't forget, this same d.a. got weisselberg. we don't know what from that investigation goes into this.

we know donald trump issued threats that may have instigated the threats at the d.a., including this envelope that says specifically, "alvin, i'm going to kill you." tali, you ran against alvin bragg in the primary, and you're standing up, defending his life. i mean, because if you had won, this could have been you. this could have been some of those that are assigning this. aside from people's opinion of the case, talk about how, if we don't stand up to this kind of behavior, that young people, old people, whoever, that would want to pursue being prosecutors may say, i better not do that because if i get a hot case, it is now fair game that people could threaten my life and my family. >> that's exactly right. you know, d.a. bragg and i were opponents in that primary. we disagreed about lots of things. that's the democratic process. we can continue to talk about disagreements, but this is

something else entirely. i do agree that this is just the first move. there could be threats against the judge and the prosecution if this indictment is brought. people could threaten people in the department of justice and the state of georgia if charges are brought. we have to say, i'm worried about d.a. bragg's safety in this instance. he is doing his job, and this is outrageous. i'm worried more generally, as you are, about what it says about the rule of law and all of the people who participate in making our country work by going to work every day in these jobs that are hard and involve a personal sacrifice we're seeing now. >> former federal prosecutor tali farhadian weinstein, thank you very much for being on. i couldn't agree more. >> by the bay, tali, your name is easier to pronounce than

brzezinski or scarborough. they spelled it phonetically in the prompter, and i was going, wait, what? is that -- how? anyway, thank you so much for being here. >> thank you. >> greatly appreciate it. >> sure. >> great insights. i'm so glad reverend al brought up the fact that she ran against bragg. here she is, defending the rule of law, as every good american should do. again, it just shows, you can lose elections and still love america. and still defend the rule of law, which donald trump and his supporters do not. >> i wonder if this behavior, calling for danger, calming for violence and threatening federal prosecutors, manhattan d.a. and whoever else he is threatening, if this is being accounted for and will somehow point to accountability for donald trump in terms of what he has done to,

number one, january 6th, the capitol attack, but also to the safety of others. >> i know. i said before that donald trump and his supporters, a lot of his supporters, you know, don't support the rule of law. i'm hoping that'll change at some point. i'm hoping that they'll love america enough that they'll turn their back on this guy who keeps attacking the rule of law. go to desantis or somebody else who actually they can agree with his positions without having somebody who, again, and i said desantis. it can be anybody in the republican party. but somebody who hasn't ab tick actively tried togovernment. ed luce, mika talked about some things trump has done. "the new york post" is saying he is deranged, and rightly so. here, you have a guy who pressured his own attorney general to arrest his opponent

two weeks before the election. >> i am your justice. >> and arrest his family. here's a guy who, of course, led the january 6th riots from the white house. you know, putting the tweets out to have the people come, and then sitting there staring for two hours, refusing to do anything, watching the violent rhetoric. here's a guy who said he wanted to terminate the constitution of the united states. here's a guy that said if he was charged with a misdemeanor, possibly, there would be death and destruction in america. here's a guy who held up a baseball bat and retweeted something next to bragg's head. his lawyer sits there. again, everybody tries to excuse it. he's talking about terminating the constitution of the united states and sending out violent imagery. his supporters just stay with him. how much of a threat is this to american democracy? >> it is a huge threat. i mean, my argument all along is we need to do him for sedition.

we're getting him on hush money to a porn star. regardless of the merit of the argument, it's not equal. it is not a tiny fraction of equal to the threat that he poses to this system of government. it would be like the international criminal court issuing an arrest warrant for putin for shoplifting as opposed to abducting thousands of children. we need to get trump on the scale of the crimes he has committed. i have to believe jack smith and people in georgia and elsewhere are advancing rapidly. that's my argument. we need to get him on the scale of the threat that he poses. so i don't disagree with anything you've just said. my one point about alvin bragg's potential indictment is that this is -- this is the ground,

the legal ground trump would like to fight on. he's clearly saying, bring it on. all these revolting, grotesque things he is saying to alvin bragg for part of his goading. this is his territory. he knows it'll validate in maga nation's eyes, the idea of the deep state. they'll get you on anything, however trivial. that is his ground. the ground i would like to see, the ground that mueller declined to sort of step up to, is the serious high crimes and misdemeanors and seditious actions of this president. that's befitting of what is going on in israel right now. these are major stakes. major attempts to seize power, subvert a political system and subvert democracy. i want to see trump prosecuted for that. and i'm not a law ever, but i refuse to believe that when somebody threatens violence

against a district attorney, that that isn't criminal. >> right. it would be for anybody else. again, the rules don't apply to donald trump. anybody else, threatening a federal prosecutor, a state prosecutor, a judge, and doing so much of what donald trump has done, would already have faced the consequences of it. i'm just curious, though, ed, and let me just put this out there. i say this as somebody who has been around washington for about 30 years and follows politics closely. there is nothing donald trump is doing that expands his base. nothing that donald trump is doing that makes it more likely that he is going to get elected president of the united states in the general election. everything he's doing is shrinking his base. he had a convict choir that he did the pledge of allegiance to. he praised the convict choir of

rioters. because of the convict choir of rioters, four policemen are dead. people are going to have semantics arguments. families will tell you their family member is dead because of the convicts on january 6th. that's who marjorie taylor greene embraces. it'll help her, perhaps, and parts of her district, but donald trump will lose more swing voters. maybe not 10%. maybe 1%, half a percent, and he'll lose again. the other night, he had the qanon theme playing. he talked over the qanons. again, sending a bat signal to members of qanon. all that does is make him look like a freak to swing voters in wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania. his speakers, you had a speaker come up to introduce him that

said, used to be democrats and republicans. now, it's patriots are traders. we're the patriots. anybody that doesn't support donald trump is a traitor. again, that's chasing off independents, swing voters. he had a former rock star stand up and introduce him and call zelenskyy a homosexual weirdo. again, this is stuff you can't make up. this is stuff that donald trump is putting out there. again, it all adds up to certain loss if he is the republican candidate for the general election. which leads me to say, trump is smart enough to know all of this. it is hard not to look at this rally and others like it, where they have pre-printed signs that say "witch hunt," to see this as nothing but a sledgehammer against judges, against prosecutors, against the rule of

law, and he is trying to start riots. it's pretty simple. he's sure as hell not doing this to win elections because he's not winning a general election this way. >> i agree with that. i'd say probably rather than definitely because you never know. but we have two very weird things happening. one is that he is tightening his grip over the republican party. hard as that might be to believe, evidence is look at kevin mccarthy. look at jim jordan. look at ron desantis. look at the positions that republicans who stick their fingers into the air to see which way the wind is blowing are taking. clearly, they think that his grip on the party is as strong as it's ever been, and they are acting accordingly. at the same time, as you say, joe, he is probably recking his chances of winning a general election. it does make me incredibly nervous, though. watching that grotesque,

viscerally upsetting scene in waco on saturday, of him with the hand on heart, with the j6 choir singing this satanic verse, watching that and thinking he could be the nominee, probably will be the nominee. accidents happen. presidents fall off bicycles, and people overreact to that and make weird decisions. that makes me incredibly nervous. this was a -- this was such a dark sight, a horrible sight. >> i agree. completely agree with you, ed. >> when he gets to a point where he is praising a convict choir of rioters. >> with his hand on his heart. >> whose actions led to the death of four cops, again, don't believe me, talk to their families. that is a dark place. it's also an unelectable place.

>> national editor of "the financial times", ed luce, thank you for being on this morning. ahead on "morning joe," north carolina is set to expand medicaid access after the state's gop-led legislature dropped its longstanding opposition to the issue. we'll talk to governor roy cooper as he prepares to sign the new measure into law this afternoon. plus, the senate banking committee is set to hold hearings this week on the recent failure of two u.s. banks. we'll get a report on that from capitol hill. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪

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not taken the expansion. in a moment, we'll speak with north carolina's governor. first, nbc news correspondent dasha burns joins us from the state's capital of raleigh. dasha, it was the republican majorities in the stat house and senate that negotiated and passed the expansion bill. tell us how that might be a blueprint to get the remaining states on board. >> reporter: yeah, mika, what we are talking about here today was virtually unimaginable ten years ago, even five years ago. over the course of the 13 years since the passage of the affordable care act, republicans have been going through a sort of evolution on the idea of medicaid expansion. under the law, a program would allow those in the coverage gap to enroll in medicaid. now, red states expanded medicaid, but they've implemented it through ballot

measures when their legislatures refuse to do so. why north carolina is important, why it could be a model for the ten states who haven't done so, is because it is the republican state house and republican state senate that passed this. it passed on the anniversary of the affordable care act. this is something governor roy cooper has been pushing for years. the question is, why not? why is this happening? there are a few things that have happened. the lawmakers we talked to say, first of all, they still say this would not have worked back then. they say that they've changed the way medicaid works in this state. the biden administration has also offered a $1.7 billion incentive for those holdout states. and the other big factor, as you all may remember, for years, republicans campaigned on the idea of repealing affordable care act. states didn't know whether this is something that would be in

place or not if they expanded medicaid. now, they've seen the affordable care act remain in place under democratic administrations, republican administrations, so they feel comfortable and confident that this is the law of the land. they don't have to worry about it anymore. now, they can move forward with the medicaid expansion. some of the lawmakers we've talked to actually themselves campaign against this a few years ago. here is why they changed their minds. take a listen. >> i needed to be convinced. i had historically opposed this. when i saw that it locked like on the expanded coverage that a lot of the folks who would be able to get this are the folks who are working, who are trying, but who simply cannot afford insurance and do not otherwise qualify for coverage, i said, we need to do something about this. >> i think when members saw how that'd benefit, whether it's their district or the state, that also helped them realize,

economically, this was a win-win for everybody. >> hearing from folks in my district was huge for he. i live in a conservative district. i live in a rural district in north carolina. so to hear from my county commissioners that they have looked at this thing and think it'd be a good idea, not only for their citizens but for the district, for the health care providers in their district, that was huge for me. it gave me the ability to support this with some enthusiasm. >> reporter: an estimated 600,000 people in the state are expected to be eligible. important to note, this will not be firm until the state budget is passed, expected to happen in the summer. one more big thing, mika, the evolution of not just the republican legislatures, republican lawmakers and policymakers, but the republican constituency over the years has become more working class, more blue collar, more folks that rely on medicaid, mika. >> nbc's dasha burns, thank you

very much. joining us now, north carolina's democratic governor, roy cooper. governor cooper, thank you so much for being on this morning. i was going to ask you, given just the decades, the blanket hate that republicans have for the affordable care act, i was going to ask you, was it tough to get republicans on board with this bill? how did that go? yet, i just saw in dasha's reporting, they're proudly supporting it. what has changed? >> music to my ears to hear my republican colleagues in the legislature say those things that we've been saying for the last decade. look, i'm about to sign the working families bill of the decade. this is going to help child care workers, direct care workers who help our senior, people who stock our grocery stores, work in our restaurants. those who have fallen in that gap. many have died because they

haven't had health insurance. what we did over these years, the arc of a policy change is long, we pulled together long traditional allies to help convince the legislature that this was the way to go. for example, tough on crime republican sheriffs who were having to deal time after time with people with with substance abuse and mental health illness. they knew people needed care, not handcuffs. rural county commissioners who were seeing rural hospitals close and people hurt in their communities step forward and join the collision and pass resolutions. so did local chambers of commerce who knew that when you provided more insurance into the system, you reduce cost for everyone. these voices got louder and louder. when you think of the financial

situation here, what good business turns away $521 million a month? that is how much north carolina has been turning away since we've refused to expand medicaid. we hope states like georgia and texas and florida, where people are hurting there, will look at non-traditional allies together to do the right thing. i'm grateful to the biden administration for the bonus money, the almost $1.8 billion we're going to get. we're going to invest, i think, a lot of it in mental health. i do want to thank the republican leadership for being willing to come forward and being willing to change their minds on this issue. there were other issues that were negotiated here. they wanted more competition in the health care arena, which was incorporated into this final agreement. this is going to be good for

north carolina families. it's going to be good for our businesses. it won't cost additional state tax dollars because the feds provide 90% and our hospitals are covering the 10%. because they end up in the black anyway. this is a win-win-win all around, and we're excited to get this done today. >> sure seems like it, governor. i know you're excited to sign the bill this afternoon. it's sort of a different way to get to -- to the people with this support through legislation rather than a ballot measure. is it a blueprint for the ten other states? is it possible that this could be sweeping across the country, opposed to this specific to north carolina? >> many states don't have ballot initiatives in their constitution. we don't. had we done that in north carolina, had we had one, it would have passed easily. i suspect it'd pass in georgia,

texas, florida, and probably the other states, as well. we've seen a number of red states adopt medicaid expansion through ballot initiatives. what you have to do when it's up to the legislature, you have to build coalitions to put pressure on republican legislators and legislative leaders. here, across the board, when you get the endorsement of the north carolina sheriff's association, when chambers of commerce say this is the right thing to do, finally, when you look around, there's hardly anybody left who is opposed to it. i think we're further enough away from this being called obamacare, that a lot of political stigma is removed. obsessive partisanship is one of our biggest problems. when you have obsessive partisanship, you forget the people at the heart of the issue.

you know, i'll step back, too, and thank the advocates, the health care advocates, the non-profits, the people who were willing to come forward and be brave enough to tell their stories. they've been fighting for this for years. my cabinet secretaries were told when they went out to incorporate medicaid expansion into their speeches. we've known, we've created a group, care for carolina, that included non-profits and businesses. they raised money and advertised on this issue. there's a lot that has gone into this moment, and it is certainly a road map for some of these other states that haven't done it yet. >> all right. north carolina governor roy cooper, thank you for being on this morning. >> thank you, mika. coming up, we're going to go live to storm-ravaged mississippi for the latest on recovery efforts there following friday's deadly tornado. plus, we'll speak with the head of fema about the federal disaster aid approved by president biden.

"morning joe" will be right back.

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♪♪ >> reporter: swift appeared to s during thefá opening night of h tour. >> and if you're here tonight, k good chance that you went through considerable amount of effort to be here. >> reporter: the case won't be the first time ticketmaster is in the hot seat. earlier this year, lawmakers

fired up ae1 swift-inspired grilling for livenation's ceo. >> it's a nightmare dressed like a daydream. >> cane1 ticketmaster look in t mirror and say i'm the problem, it's me. >> reporter: they did not fo but previously denied 75leing competition ande1 blamed the blunder in part on unprecedented demand on cyber attacks. still, upset swifties say it's time for change. >> there has to be some regulation on this.e1 there's got to be some sort of change. it shouldn't be so hard to purchase tickets. >> reporter: this may just be the7mg■ beginning of livestatio legal battles. after drakewnk■ fans were displd by high ticket prices. >> how are youfá justifying spendt a mortgage on at( three, four-hour concert? like, what do you do for a living? >> reporter: some hit ticketmaster with a lawsuit of their own, accusing the company of intentionally misleadingó[■

consumers for its own financial gain. meanwhile, ticketmaster is already expected toxd compensat some of its customers. earlier this month, the cure frontman robert smith said ticketmaster would refunde1 fan who were charged what he called unduly high processing fees. ♪ are you ready for it ♪♪ >> reporter: and now with taylor's top fans ready to present their case, the focus will be on the ability of swifties to sway a judge. >> there yoz1 go. >> oh, they weeping, yes. >> youjf see when i don't get m taylor swift tickets. >> it's horrible.+!yrñ it's imp. nbc's joe fryer with that ñr report. finally this hour, we're joined by former navy secretary john dalton. he served president bill clinton's administration in that role for 5 1/2 years. @d his latest book isfá entitl "at the helm: my journey withe1 family, faith and friends to calm the storms of life." >> mr. secretary, thank you for

being with us. let me ask you, what did you learn as secretary of the navy?1 >> well, i hadok ae1 wonderful as secretary of the navy. for 5 1/2 years. and the average time is about threexd years. and i really enjoyed it. and served in the clinton administration.çó and the carter administration previously. and i really enjoyed it.lpi] and what i learned was stay focused. do the best you can, and get the job done.ñi >> what was your proudest momend serving as secretary of the navy? >> well,ok i thinkú moment of my life was having the privilege of having international leadership award.

there's a democratic -- there's bm■ in the congress that votes on that. and i'm the onlylp secretary of and i'm grateful for it. i'm very grateful. >> yeah. and what challenges do you think the navy faces now? we have a lote1 of debate about how many ships it needs to fáha, how ite1 needs to grow. what do you think the navy's greatest challenge today is? >>eiywell, i think people are t t you need to take care of oure1 people in t%n navy and marine corps. and that ise1 the biggest challenge. and i think secretary carlos del toro is doing a goodçó job of tt in the navy department. >> all right. >> the new book is entitled "at the helm:lp my journey with e1

family, faith, of life." navy secretary john dalton, thank you for being on. >> mr. secretary, it's so good to seeok you again. >> a pleasure. >> well, it's great to see you, joe and mika. and i appreciate you having me on the show. and you're-9xuájjt up on youráx 16th anniversary of -- >> yeah. >> and i wish you well. and i'm grateful that you're as successful as you are. >> thank you. >> thank you so much. >> thank you, mr. secretary. one last piece of news to get in, an update into an investigation on a hush money payment donald trump allegedly made to stormy daniels in nb■20. we just learned another witness is expected to appear today is expected to appear today before the grand jury in

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