we started this week with news out of that new york grand jury and heard from a veteran witness, i have been writing about all of that and more. you can always go @arimelber, or arimelber.com. you can pick either way if you want to connect, or just meet me back here, 6:00 p.m. eastern, on msnbc tomorrow night. "the reidout" with joy reid starts now.

>> tonight on "the reidout" -- >> we just learned about another shooting in tennessee. a school shooting. and i am truly without words. and our children deserve better. >> first lady and teacher dr. jill biden responding to the latest horrific acts of mass violence as politicians in states like tennessee worry more about drag shows and banning books than about actually protecting our children. also tonight, public protests in israel and elsewhere against the rising wave of authoritarianism. while here in the u.s., there's a shocking lack of urgency in repudiating the conspiratorial and violent rhetoric from our home-grown autocrat in waiting, donald trump. meanwhile, trump continues to lash out at the manhattan

d.a. and the manhattan grand jury hears from a key player in trump's hush money scheme. bebut we begin with a tragedy that is unique to america. another school massacre. this time in nashville, tennessee. where a 28-year-old woman shot and killed three students and three staff members at a private christian school. the shooter was armed with two assault style rifles and a handgun. the nashville police department said the shooter was a former student at the school who identified as trans. the children who were fatally shot are evelyn dieckhaus, hallie scruggs, and william kinney, all elementary school age. the adults are cynthia peak, mike hill, and katherine koonce, all in their 60s. koonce shown here was the school's headmaster. president biden who called on congress to act on guns after sandy hook, buffalo, and uvalde,

had this to say once again after nashville. >> sick and heartbreaking. a family's worst nightmare. we have to do more to stop gun violence. i call on congress again to pass my assault weapons ban. >> the u.s. has surpassed 100 mass shootings in 2023. and we're only in march. these are shootings that can happen anywhere, a school, a hospital, a church, a cemetery. and it's not just the typical young white men with unfettered access to high powered weapons doing the shooting now. they include the elderly, people of color, and as we saw today, a trans woman. the only thing that is consistent is it's the guns that kill our children, that terrorize them, that force them to do shooter drills in their elementary school classrooms. it's why our babies are patted down and enter through metal detectors. it's why arming teachers is an actual debate in america, and

how the killing must end by republicans who do nothing about gun reform. instead, they honor a perverse interpretation of the second amendment over human lives, and in the meantime, they create a fake moral panic over drag shows. but it is not the guns that pose a danger to our kids. they say it is not the guns that pose a danger to our kids. they say it's the books. it's the wokeness. which is why in tennessee, where today's rampage occurred, a school district once removed 327 books from library shelves that featured lgbtq characters and themes. a school board there also voted unanimously to remove the pulitzer prize winning novel maus. the tennessee chapter of moms for liberty, a book banning dark money group, also opposed ruby bridges goes to school, an autobiography of the first black child to integrate new orleans schools in 1960. it's a children's book, by the way, and it's not just

tennessee, of course. it's florida, the land of don't say gay, where the disney movie ruby bridges once a staple for black history month lessons has now been removed because one parent complained the film would result in students learning that white people once hated black people. during a time when literally some of them did. other states are taking ron desantis' lead. in wisconsin, the song rainbow land, a duet by miley cyrus and dolly parton, has been banned from a first grade concert. the reason is not clear. could it be miley or maybe the existence of the word rainbow? we don't know. but the terrifying thing is it could be anything these days. how we think, read, talk, learn, think. it's almost like conservatives are more concerned about what kids read than what kills kids. this moral panic is being framed by the right as their attempt to protect children. which kind of falls apart when they do nothing about the thing that turns a child into a

corpse. books don't kill children. drag shows don't kill children. guns do. and if that doesn't piss you off, brett cross, whose son was killed in uvalde, would like to have a word. >> have you all had enough yet? nashville, three kids so far have been pronounced dead. three adults have been pronounced dead from a [ bleep ] school [ bleep ] shooting. when is enough enough? if this doesn't make you sick to your [ bleep ] stomach then you're a piece of [ bleep ]. >> joining me is shannon watts, founder of moms demand action for gun sense in america, and michelle goldberg, columnist for "the new york times." you know, it is starting to become almost random, or sort of routine, i should say, that we have now at least, what, one to two mass shootings a week in this country over 100, a lot of

things about these shootings are the same. they tend to have been young white men between 18 and 30. there haven't been many women. there clearly obviously haven't been many trans women. this is rare, but we're starting to see it broaden out. asian americans, african americans, it's so scattered that it can happen anywhere anytime, but once again, it's happened in a school. your thoughts. >> well, look, this is sadly the logical outcome of 400 million guns in this country and very few gun laws. if guns made us safer, we would be the safest country in the world. instead, we have a 26 times higher gun homicide rate than any peer nation, and if we look at the state of tennessee where this happened, this is a state that has had every single chance to strengthen gun laws and they have done the opposite. in fact, 2021, governor lee signed permless carry, a law that allows people to carry

hidden loaded handguns in public without a background check or training. he signed that into law and celebrated it at a gun manufacturing plant. this is a state where they have incredibly weak gun laws and gun homicides have spiked 110% in the last decade there. at what point do more guns make us more safe? the answer is never. and that is why we need lawmakers to pass stronger gun laws. the data shows they work. and so when we elect lawmakers to make laws, we don't elect them to give us their thoughts or their prayers. we elect them to act, and that is what we should expect as constituents. >> and to stay with you for a second, shannon. the congressman that represents this district, his name is andy ogles. he's a republican. he represents this district. i want to show a picture, you tweeted out a picture, i guess it was his christmas card. there it is, there he is

standing in front of the christmas tree with his wife and children. one has a book, which also are things republicans think are dangerous, but the rest of them have guns. this has become a common thing among republicans. posing with guns, fetishizing guns, wearing ar-15 pins in congress. and really making their love and adoration for guns kind of their primary political sort of this is their symbol. their symbol is a gun. it's very war lordish. what do you make of his statement today, stating his devastation that he and his family feel at the covenant school shooting and of course sending his thoughts and prayers? >> it's a sickness. you know, there are three issues here in this country, our lax gun laws, electing people who support the gun lobby and gun extremism. and then this culture, right? a culture of guns for anyone, anywhere, anytime, no questions asked. celebrating this -- these guns as though they are toys.

that's what that photo looks like. and it is really incumbent on us to elect people who have a conscience, who would not celebrate drunk driving or the use of opioids, other things that kill people. somehow, guns have become acceptable, and that's in part because we have something else that no other peer nation has, that is a gun lobby. we have allowed gun lobbyists to the table to help write gun laws, and of course, they don't do that to protect public safety. they want to write policy that protects their profits. they make billions and billions of dollars selling these guns in particular semiautomatic rifles and it's no surprise that the shooter today had two ar-style rifles and a handgun and an ar-style handgun as well. so you know, these weapons of war that we have allowed on our streets are now being used to kill our kids. >> michelle, you know, this is coming at a time where the first and second amendments are in real tension.

not real tension among the public. it's like an 80/20 issue. even gun owners overwhelmingly want stronger gun laws. as shannon said, the gun lobby and politicians they own are refusing to let it happen. you have this in the state of tennessee, which ironically is the scopes monkey trial state, where they used to have a law against teaching evolution in public high schools, in public schools. they now are racing to enact these first amendment limiting laws to limit things like drag shows. you have rampant book banning. i think tennessee might be the most book banning state, even more than florida. so they're essentially saying it's too dangerous to allow children to be exposed to a drag show. a drag queen is dangerous to children. these books are dangerous to children. when it comes to guns, they're like, no, put more guns with children are. it is an irony that's hard to get away from during this moral panic over books, history, and drag shows. >> and i fear that the identity of the murderer here is only

going to re-enforce them. this is, you know, we have a lot of mass shootings in this country. it's still shocking when it's elementary school children. you know, i have -- these are three 9-year-olds. i have an 8-year-old and a 10-year-old. i can barely think about it, but i think that from whenever we have one of these shootings in general, the gun lobby and people aligned with the republican party want to talk about anything but guns. sometimes they want to talk about mental health. sometimes they want to talk about doors and why they were unlocked. they want to talk about, you know, illegal immigration. if it's a muslim, they want to talk about radical islam, and the fact that it's a trans person i think is only going to re-enforce this moral panic. it's going to make it seem, you know, they're going to feel that they are under threat, under siege from this group of people that has been, you know, i think trans people in this country

already, they are being demonized and terrorized and just as you see when during -- when there's for example a muslim killer, it redounds on ordinary muslim civilians. i think we'll see something similar here. >> the thing is the moral panic over trans people has bled over into this mania about drag shows, which was never a thing. all of a sudden this is the most dangerous thing in america, and tennessee is a state that is marquee for this. and the thing that is interesting about that is there's no moral consistency to their argument. drag shows don't feature a drag queen wielding a gun. so nobody is going to get killed at a drag show. so if you think that -- and if you were to present them, if you think the trans community is so dangerous, should they be denied guns? how would they square that? because they think everybody should have guns. the majority of mass shooters tend to be statistically young white males between 18 and in

their 30s. they don't want to stop them from having guns. are you going to say because of one instance because this person is trans, should trans people not be allowed to have guns? they don't have a morally consistent argument to stop mass shootings and make moral panic work. >> if your argument is that this person is mentally ill and is too unstable to have access to hormones than the normal corollary of that would be that they also shouldn't have access to automatic weaponry. >> that would be the logical answer, but shannon, we both know that would not be their answer. >> that would not be their answer. they don't seem to say anything about the huge spike in homicides among trans people in this country, up over 90% in the last few years. most of that carried out with guns. there have been hundreds and hundreds of mass shootings in the last few years alone. most of them, as you said, by straight white men, so this is a moral panic. they want to focus on everything

but the real issue, which is easy access to guns in this country. i'm the parent of a trans kid. i can tell you that i'm terrified right now, and it isn't just easy access to guns but these lawmakers who are essentially putting targets on these kids' backs. >> and last question to you, michelle. you have two young children. i am a mother of three. my kids are in their 20s now, but when they were young, i can tell you, i was terrified of the idea of them being shot in school, because they had to do those mass shooting drills starting in the third grade. i had to go to the park and practice how we would find out if they were still alive in a mass shooting. that's how my kids grew up. for you, have you ever feared your children would be somehow harmed by a drag queen? >> if you're asking me, you know, look, i live in new york city. and obviously not. of course not.

and to be honest, in the past, i sometimes thought that school shootings are the kind of things that happen in, you know, suburbs. they don't happen in schools like the ones my kids go to that are full of immigrants and that are sort of cosmopolitan. what we're seeing in this country is that absolutely no one is safe. >> right. >> just as we're seeing a greater and greater variety of people who are committing these kind of crimes, they can absolutely happen anywhere. part of the issue is when you have as many mass shootings as we have, some of them are going to be anomalous. >> that's right. and exactly, and books are not killing kids. you know, reading is not what's killing kids. it's guns. there's no way around it. shannon and michelle, thank you. up next on "the reidout," the disturbing lack of urgency in countering the rise of right wing authoritarianism around the world and at home. "the reidout" continues after this.

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protests raged for months following mahsa amini's death. in nigeria, thons protested the country's election results, alleged vote tampering and voter intimidation. and in recent days, israel was nearly paralyzed by massive protests over far right prime minister benjamin netanyahu's plan to weaken the country's judiciary, to make it harder to remove him from power. after he fired his defense minister for speaking out against his proposed changes. today, netanyahu, who was voted back in as prime minister despite still being under indictment on felony bribery, fraud, and breach of trust charges, announced the delay in his judicial plan. saying he wanted to avoid civil war and make time to compromise. meanwhile, here in the u.s., we seem to lack the same urgency as our own authoritarian in waiting, donald trump, effectively threatened civil war, largely for the same reason

as netanyahu, to keep himself out of jail. as he attempted to control our judicial system with warnings of death and destruction from his supporters. he gave a clarion call to insurrection version 2.0 over the weekend, at a rally that looked a lot like a cult gathering in wacko, texas. a right wing shrine infamous for a 51-day stand-off between federal agents and the branch davidian dooms day religious cult. and in a clear nod to the dark legacy of waco with his speech falling on the 30th anniversary of the deadly standoff, trump leaned into his role as a cult leader, leading the crowd in lionizing the january 6th insurrectionists, showing a video of the attack by a song recorded by men in prison for the attack that day. followed by a call to arms which we're not going to play on this show. just know he attacked the prosecutors investigating him, saying our justice system will be defeated, telling his followers, they're not coming

after me, they're coming after you, and he cast the 2024 election as a final battle, telling his supporters that once again he is their retribution and he is their justice. totally normal stuff. joining me now is charlie sykes, editor at large of the bulwark and an msnbc contributor. and you know, charlie, it strikes me that the waco timing doesn't feel coincidental. this was a religious fire that set fire to its own building to protect a leader who was raping children and declaring himself to be jesus and god on earth. i feel like trump leaned into that. >> well, trump leaned into it because he wants to amplify his anger and the atmosphere of menace. apparently, he thought it was want enough to threaten death and destruction or tweet out images of him with a baseball bat and the prosecutor in manhattan. so what he's doing though is he is embracing some of the most

violent imagery of the past in order to sort of create this environment of the future. i think the juxtaposition of what's happening in israel is very, very interesting. we're not there yet. but it's an indication of what happens when you have a leader of government who is on trial for corruption, and then uses his power to destroy independent judiciary. and what you are seeing is really a textbook case of how a democratic society can push back against the authoritarian playbook. that's what netanyahu is doing. he's reaching for the authoritarian playbook. his law would strip the independent judiciary of its ability to review parliamentary legislation. it would allow the parliament to overrule the supreme court. it would basically remove any sort of guardrails on government power including his far right coalition. it is a real imminent, immediate threat to the constitutional order in israel, and civil

society has risen up. what you're seeing is a society that is basically saying we are not going to allow benjamin netanyahu and his coalition to destroy all of the checks and balances in our society. i mean, the conflict of interest is obvious, the fact that he is cynically using his power in order to destroy this is front and center. so you have business people, you have academics, you have fighter pilots, military reservists, all rising up and saying we're going to fight for these values. and as of today, they forced him to back away. so this is something to keep in mind, that if we ever happen to have a leader in our country who is under indictment or has been convicted of crimes and decides to use the full weight of his power to try to destroy the rule of law, that would be the moment for us to look back on what's happening in countries like israel and others, to be able to push back. because it can be --

>> uh-oh. >> -- done. it may come a moment when we're going to have to do that, because i think a lot of americans are complacent about these issues. and yet we could have that moment. in israel, there's no complacency. >> and i agree with you. in other countries too you have seen, in france, this was about raising the retirement age two years. and i mean, france has a history going back to 1789. they don't play around. they protest. to go back to the israeli sort of situation and the analogy with ours, netanyahu got re-elected, touting the same kind of luxuriating in violence, in this case against palestinians and put together this far right coalition that is the most racist right wing coalition that israel has seen at least in my lifetime. i mean, they're far right. and farther right than he even was before, and that idea of sort of luxuriating in the idea of violence against palestinians

was participate of the appeal. but you're right. there was a breaking point that society there had, that unfortunately didn't have to do with stopping that kind of violence. it had to do with the idea that he was going to seize dictatorial power. i wonder what you think about here. donald trump tried that with the judiciary here. he has over 200 appointees on the federal bench, and he was mad that the supreme court, the three he put on the court, wouldn't give him the election. he got a florida judge that did do his bidding and tried to protect him and did his bidding, and he thought all of them should do it. if he were to come back in, let me read you this. this is from a guy named dan moynahan who says one of the major mistakes trump made is that he wanted to dissembowel government to hold on to power. trump's weapon is an executive order he signed shortly before the 2020 election. it's called schedule f. it allows the president to force 10s of possibly hundreds of

thousands to become political appointees, stripping them of job protections. it lows the president to fire civil servants who fail his loyalty test. trump ran out of time. biden rescinded it. if trump wins in 2024, an aggressive purge of the civil service will be one of his priorities. fascist governments usually start by perjurying the civil service. this sounds like a promise to do this. you know who else loves the idea of doing a schedule f? ron desantis. even the alternative to trump is an autocrat in waiting. >> look, they're very, very serious about this. donald trump has made it very, very clear he would come into office and purge the ranks of government. when he says i am your justice, i am your retribution, he's made it clear he will gut the department of justice, go after the fbi, he will go through the ranks of the military to eliminate anybody who would refuse his orders. and he's not being subtle about it. he said it was just last week, right, that the greatest threat

facing america is not russia or china. it's fellow americans. people in the deep state, people in the state department. he would dismantle our diplomatic core, our legal system, our intelligence agencies. and this is something he's going to run on. and i think that the republican base will support it. so people should not think that this is a bluff. the first time around, donald trump did not know how to open all the doorknobs. he did not know where all the levers and buttons are. donald trump 2.0 would know all of these things. he is -- that moment where the velociraptor figures out how to open the doors, how to get out of the cage. >> and by the way, in the media, this is a problem for the media. the alternative to him that the media is blandly treating as some sort of sane alternative is somebody who punished disney for speech, who punishes teachers for speech, has teachers terrified to teach less they catch a third degree felony or to hand a book to a child.

this is a somebody who is an autocrat with a better brain than donald trump. but not with better intentions. so wake up, media. don't try to treat these two as two different people. >> so much for the party of small government. >> small government is out the window. charlie sykes, thank you. still ahead, we now know who testified before the manhattan grand jury today, as trump and his allies continue to lash out at investigators. we'll bring you the latest after this. i get powerful, effective and safe relief. salonpas. it's good medicine. people remember ads with a catchy song. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's a little number you'll never forget. ♪ customize and save. ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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counter to donald trump's claims over the weekend that the manhattan district's attorney dropped the stormy daniels hush money case, the grand jury met today for the first time in a week to continue their investigation. they heard testimony for a second time from the former publisher of the national enquirer, david pecker. who previously appeared in january. pecker allegedly helped broker the payment between the adult film actress and trump's former lawyer, michael cohen and is likely key to the prosecutor's argument that the purpose of the payment was to suppress negative information ahead of the 2016 election. also over the weekend, d.a. alvin bragg pushed back again against the three house republican chairman who continued to claim that congress should be privy to his testimony and documents in the ongoing investigation. bragg tweeted, we evaluate cases in our jurisdiction based on the facts, the law, and the

evidence. it is not appropriate for congress to interfere with pending local investigations. the unprecedented inquiry by federal elected officials into an ongoing matter serves only to hinder, disrupt, and undermine the legitimate work of our dedicated prosecutors, but hey, that might just be the point. joining me is maya wiley. myy, great to see you. let me ask you this question. at what point does this obstruction and interference by these federal officials become actual like legal obstruction? or does it? >> you know, it's so unprecedented, joy. i mean, we have to start there. this is not something where we can point back and say, well, it's clear in the law. let me just say that, clear in the law in our constitutional order that congress, members of congress have no power over the prosecutorial decisions of a

local prosecutor duly-elected by the people that prosecutor is representing and can be hired and fired by those people, and by the way, who is completely accountable to a rule of law that judges will govern in our jurisdiction to say whether or not that prosecutor and that office is adhering to the laws, to the rules of the road, in this state. and i find it incredibly ironic that the republican party that has so in recent years constantly talked about states' rights, to do something that flies directly in the face of the thing that they claim over and over again, which is that the federal government should not get involved in the rules of the road for states, because it's straight up specific, the rules of the road by states where the federal government has no power.

so it is so outside of the realm of our structure, federal to state, constitutional. but also, just flies in the face of our politics. it's supposed to be one where we protect the rule of law, no matter the party. then we're talking about the rule of law. they're using the bully pulpit of congress to try to interfere on behalf of a political candidate for office. and that is simply not lawful. or constitutional. or how we structured our government. >> it's wild. okay, i want to come back to this. i want to talk about the threats against d.a. bragg, but let's go to the substance of the testimony today. so this is the headline from nbc news, trump was in the room during the hush many discussions with david pecker. donald trump was the third person in the room in august of 2015 when his lawyer, michael

cohen, and national enquirer publisher david pecker discussed ways pecker could counter negative stories about trump's relationships with women. that's confirmed by nbc. what do you think is the significance of that to this investigation? >> well, it's really interesting because remember that david pecker and michael cohen were both engaged and in involved in the cash and kill story with karen mcdougal. in addition to both being engaged and related to the hush money for stormy daniels. so part of what's happening here is establishing that there is a scheme. there is a way in which they work, and donald trump has been sitting at the center, at the table. there's even audiotapes that michael cohen has had in the karen mcdougal case on the catch and kill. i want to add to this because we forget there's so many details we forget them all. rudy giuliani said, said as far

as he knows that donald trump knew and understood generally what was going on in the stormy daniels hush money case. said it on fox news. and he undermined donald trump who said i didn't know anything about the payments. and his own lawyer, rudy giuliani, said yeah, he did, but it's not a problem. it was lawful. so okay, there's just reams of these stories that show there's just a pattern and practice here of the way in which donald trump operated, but how he operated his business, and let's not forget the trump organization is a convicted felon. >> right. let's talk about these threats. you have seen now threats, you know, trump posted him holding a bat seeming to stand and loom over d.a. bragg, there it is on his fake twitter. here's reverend al sharpton interviewing his lawyer joe tacopina about that. >> this man could be under serious threat.

>> what someone sent to alvin bragg has nothing to do with donald trump. >> how do you know that? >> because he has nothing to do with that. >> he wrote death and destruction if i'm indicted. he announced he was going to be indicted tuesday. >> that came from leaks. >> he has a bat. >> let me explain. >> wait just a minute. there was a picture with a bat that someone had put together that he reposted. did he not? >> apparently he reposted. he also took it down when he realized what was in the photo. he did take it down. >> i stabbed you in the back but i took the knife out. >> this is a man who used to luxoriate in the idea of brutalizing people who protested at his rallies. joe tacopina would be clowning himself a bit, i have to say, with the good reverend sharpton pretending he didn't understand what he was doing when he posted that, no? >> yeah. yes. i mean, and the rev's statement is oh, yeah, i stabbed you in

the back with the knife but then i pulled it out is exactly the right metaphor for what happened here. but it is similar to our previous exchange, joy. this is the way we have a long history of trump's behavior. it's not like we only have one instance of this. donald trump, to your point, from his rallies to january 6th, and he's doubling down on it. i just want to note this because there's now research on truth social. his media platform, about how they have ratcheted up the reposting of white supremacy, of organizing hate groups. and he's using these tools, whether or not -- i don't care what his personal views are, he's using the tools of violence. >> we know from his history, he is acting as a thug and using thug tactics. maya, thank you. up next, an unusually large and long lived tornado leaves a trail of death and destruction

across western mississippi. we'll talk with long time silver city resident and basketball hall of famer spencer haywood about displaced survivors' long road to recovery. that's next. ♪♪ remember the things you loved doing... before your asthma got in the way? get back to the things you love... with fasenra. fasenra is an add-on treatment for eosinophilic asthma. having too many eosinophils, a type of white blood cell, can cause inflammation and asthma symptoms. fasenra is designed to target and remove eosinophils and helps prevent asthma attacks. fasenra is 1 dose every 8 weeks.

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long. not much was left in the wake of the 166-mile-per-hour winds that ripped through a 60-mile stretch of the delta flattening buildings and killing at least 21 people in mississippi and injuring dozens more. one person was also killed in alabama. this is what it was like as the tornado approached. >> we got new scan coming in here as we speak. oh, man. like north side of avery, this is coming in. oh, man. dear jesus, please help them. amen. >> fema administrator dean chris well has already deployed emergency response personnel and resources to the state to assist with recovery efforts. they're still assessing the damage. many residents are questioning whether state and local officials could have done a better job preparing residents for what was coming.

many victims are below the poverty line and don't have insurance to rebuild. the mayor of rolling fork, mississippi, is also the local funeral disaster. he's not only managing the disaster, he's also personally burying friends. >> it's one of the hardest situations i have ever had to deal with as a funeral director, with the situation being as it is, being the mayor and the funeral director. i have lost several friends, several friends that i'm having to face their families. we're at a total loss of everything. >> rolling fork lost 13 people. silver city, which is northeast of rolling fork, also took the brunt of the tornado. and many residents are now looking for temporary shelter, and they begin to pick through the debris of their lives and start anew. joining me now is spencer haywood, basketball hall of famer and native of silver city, mississippi.

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