and make sure the corporations obey the law. that's what this nlrb has done. data deserve credit for doing that. it's really quite shocking to some of my republican colleagues can't believe there is actually an agency of government that's demanding fair play for workers. >> senator bernie sanders, the chair of the health committee today, and who had -- thanks for joining us tonight. >> thank you very much. >> that is all in on this wednesday night. alex wagner tonight starts right now with my friend ali. >> and i'm not ready to do than, i spent the last few minutes listening to that conversation. it's hydraulic playing up right now, and these are question that he was not able to answer when he was running for president back then. some of the things they've done, the punitive things that they've done to people that have indicated that they want to be unionized, which is their, right we believe people should

be able to have them. you can't tip them on the credit card, it's 2023, why can't i put a tip on my credit card? because the workers at this store decided that they want to be unionized. >> i was struck today to see the photo of the line to get into this hearing. most hearings happen, there's not a huge thing. this was an enormous time. >> highly consequential. thanks as always. >> -- thank you to you at home for joining us this hour. this is the ukrainian city of bakhmut, or what is left of it. prior to russia's invasion last year, it was a small, relatively unremarkable city of about 75,000 people. it is now one of the most important cities in the war. for seven straight months, ukrainian forces have held back move while being attacked by russian forces from three different directions. it's the longest continual battle of the war so far, and thought to be europe's deadliest land battle since world war ii.

western intelligence agencies said that russia has taken 20 to 30,000 casualties in this little strategically insignificant town of bakhmut. ukraine's losses are also suspected to be extremely high. this month, all the ukrainian military and russian military groups the wagner group, which has been doing much of the fighting in bakhmut, both of those groups have been sounding the alarm that they are quite literally running out of bullets. that's what this very literal battle for democracy might come down to, the longest, bloodiest battle at the front of the war that will decide whether ukraine stays a self determined democracy, or gets stolen by putin's autocratic russia, it could come down to the supply chains for guns and bullets. that means that it could come down to alliances. there is new and legitimate worry that china is contemplating tipping the scales there. they've remained on the sidelines, but he's been

cozying up to putin. at the same time, when the war started, everyone thought it was over in three days. we're not danger in 98 days into this war, and russia still can't take the little town of bakhmut. and that in large part because america and the democracies of the world banded together to support ukraine. not symbolically, but with guns, drones, bullets, and money. in a lot of ways, the liberal fight for democracy and ukraine will likely be determined by the health of democracies at large. it's fitting that today, president biden held a global conference on just that. a summit for democracy. >> today, we can say with pride in the democracies of the world are getting stronger, not weaker. autocracies of the world are getting weaker, not stronger. that is a direct result of all of us, all of us coming together with confidence in ourselves,, and conviction in

our cars. all of president biden's optimism here. i just don't know if that's a really reality. even if you look at the speakers list but, it's plain that this isn't the case. this is the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. he gave a speech today on the subject of how democracy delivers economic growth and shared prosperity. this is what his country looked like this week. tens of thousands taking to the streets to protest prime minister netanyahu's blatant, and democratic power grab. he's facing multiple charges of corruption himself, and he's attempting to weaken the independence of the judicial system and make its judges more subject to political control. trying to increase's own personal power. exhibit the, this is the indian prime minister. he was also a speaker at biden

summit today and is particularly notable because he is, in theory at least, the largest democracy, at least it should be. this is a member of the indian parliament, and one of the most prominent opposition leader in india. widely seen as a potential challenge prime minister -- gandhi was just sentenced to two years in prison for the supposed crime of defamation. that two year sentence is significant, because it's a harsh punishment of -- but in india, members of parliament that are sentenced to, ironically, at least two years in prison, are rendered ineligible for office. that conveniently puts him out of the running for india's national elections, which are scheduled to take place early next year. it's not just other countries that are struggling to live up to the democratic ideals. there is also us. i would argue that we are dangerously close to having our democracy slip away. don't take my word for him. this is judge jaie michael

luttig, he's a very big deal in legal circles. in 2005, he was at the top of the shortlist for potential george bush supreme court nominees. you might know him from his role on january 6th. on the day before january 6th, then president trump pushed mike pence repeatedly to try to convince him to use his power in the senate to overturn the election results of the election. that day, pence's personal lawyer called this judge, judge luttig for help. he said the vice president has no power to change the outcome, and posted it to twitter. the next day, pinches staff incorporated the reasoning, citing him by name into a letter announcing that he would not try to block the counting of electoral votes. he is a george h. w. bush but -- appointed by the younger george bush who advised the legal team on january 6th.

now he's saying this, quote, the institutions of our democracy and law, he says, they're vicious, unsustainable, and an endurable attack from within. from the former president and his republican parties determined denial of january 6th, their refusal to acknowledge that the former president lost the presidential election in 2020 fair and square, and their promise of the 2024 election won't be called stolen from them again, as they maintain it was in 2020. america's democracy, and the rule of law are still in constitutional peril, and there is no end to the threat insight, and quote. we, america, we should be the city on a hill inspiring democracy worldwide. the world needs a strong america to fight back against the tide of authoritarianism sweeping the world right now. to do that, america needs moral authority. they need to be able to say that they're doing the right

things at home. how do we achieve that? joining us now timothy snyder, professor of history at yale university. also the author of on tyranny, 20 lessons from the 20th century. the author of the road to an freedom has also returned from a trip to ukraine. it's great to talk to you again, good for -- >> glad to be here. >> to intertwining problems, as we have just outlined. there is receding democracy on the global stage, and then there is receding democracy in america. right now, joe biden is trying to walk that road. he's trying to bolster democracy around the world, and he's trying to fight autocracy here in america. what's your evaluation of how this is going? >> first of all, whether or not biden is right about who's winning and losing, he's definitely right to be tried. i think it's a very good thing that he has a democracy summit. it's a great thing that we're trying to value democracy, and it's going to be because people say that it's the better system,

and then trying to show that it's a better system rather than just struggling our shoulders and saying to let the strongest win. it's important to note that these examples from earlier, democracy is under threat, but also things like the rule of law. the independent judiciary, or more broadly, human rights are a threat. we have to be able to use that kind of language as well. i think it's very wobbly worldwide, but i think biden is doing the same thing to -- and he's also doing the right thing by supporting the ukrainians. that's something new and dramatic, and autocracy trying to destroy democracy by force. that doesn't happen every day. if he's the kind of thing that you can't let go, that's the place where you really do have to say, look, ukrainians are taking a risk, and they're reminding us that democracy requires taking risks. let's help them take that risk, and maybe take the example for them. >> interestingly, when russia invades ukraine, or a country invades and other independent country, it's not an abstraction. it's easy to get our head around the fact that this is

the democracy, it may cease to exist as a result of this action. all of the other stuff you talk about, a threat to the rule of law, the threats to an independent judiciary like we are looking at in israel, it doesn't register always with people as, oh, democracy is under threat because of all of these things, because everybody in israel, at least israelis, they have a vote. there are all kinds of countries where people still vote, including russia and iran. they're not democracies. >> that's the thing about the 21st century, everyone claims to be a democracy. russia claims to be a democracy, and in claiming to be a democracy, they erode and take the sense away from the word. that's their own design, our weakness, as you, say we have trouble -- and here, the war in ukraine is clarified in a different way. one of the reasons why the ukrainians are doing so well is this civil society. peoples habit of resistance,

the habit of cooperation that allows the army to do so well. that is a lesson for the new societies. why doesn't netanyahu have to go back to israel? they're finally getting out on the streets in large numbers. democracy is about muscle, it people taking a stand, -- it's already too late. >> one always wonders if democracy is a verb or a noun. let's talk about china, because china has been influential, whether or not we agree with what joe biden is saying, doing better than autocracies in the world. china could have an impact on this right now. >> absolutely. the chinese the most important country in the world on that side of things. russia and ukraine are more dependent on china. it's a china and russia blocked that we're talking about. and a basic level, what they have in common is that these

were western ideals or just fantasies. these things are fundamentally about power and economic might. therefore, follow us, we rely on being predictable. with democracies have to show -- there are moral reasons for democracy. people live better under democracy and prefer, they're not integrating to russia and china for political reasons. is the other way around. and they can also see that we can be more predictable and reliable. many people around the world, including in asia look at us and traditional, there's saying who knows what will happen in 2024. it's a problem. the immediate problem, as the judge said, we've got a second attempt in two presidential elections. people look at that, concerned about democracy or not, and they say that that makes the system look unpredictable. that's one more reason why we have to have our own horse house in order. >> and he's not really a hair

unfair kind of guy. he's a conservative, he's republican, and he's very deeply alarmed that our democratic situation in america is at risk. the difficulty he has, and i think a lot of us have, it's how you convince people that risk is real. it's something that we're going to actively have to do something about. in this room where donald trump has proclaimed for the second time in a month, i'm your richard russian, that's what he tells his followers. that's the language of autocracy. >> it's also the language of fascism. living in a big lie is being a fascist. saying that this alternative reality in which you are saying that politics is all about naming the enemy and taking revenge. one of the things that people care about democracy have to be able to do is remember the legacies of the 20th century.

and i look at florida, when i think about communism, the book bans, the public gatherings, all of this stuff is suppose we anti communist. it's a story of communism. that reminds me of some of the basic things that were wrong about communism, those denunciations and book bannings, to getting people rallied up about authors that are supposedly contaminating their people. i think we have to be ready to name some names and describe some practices. we also have to be able to see positively the in democracy, we don't do those things, but we do other things, and the other things we do are actually better and make for a better life. >> you write about this and you're in a steamed professor and expert on this. last weekend, i spoke to a woman in florida, who spoke at a school board meeting about this book banning. a name is grace lynn, 100 years old. her husband died in world war ii at the age of 27, fighting for the united states. she is 100, and she's fighting book bans.

the reason i bring this up, what do the rest of us do in this fight? what's the way you become a foot soldier for democracy when is under threat in america in 2023? >> you run for office yourself, you tell the truth about basic things. you make sure you're talking to people who don't agree with you at least once, and smile, and give it a shot. you pay money to subscribe to local journalism that still exists. you pay money to subscribe to national general-ism. you join some kind of group, because if you join a group, you'll feel better about yourself. you remember that it's the medium sized and little things that count. none of us can do that alone. you take examples from people in ukraine, or in your own city, or elsewhere, or take risks. you encourage those people. there are so many little things that we can do. the interesting thing is that when you do a little things, you get even better about the big things. the world is like you say, it's

looking tough. how it looks to us every morning based on the day before. >> if we lean into some of these things, and that was wrong rubble leslie listed about things that individuals can do when and if they feel powerless. sometimes the problem is that the result doesn't seem to be bearing out. working as hard as you do, things are getting better. but as a professor of history, we look back is the people that plant certain seeds don't come to fruition until in some cases, years or decades later. >> almost everybody -- they failed most of the time. most people that are remembered as heroes of democracy fail most of the time.

it was important for us, not so much because of the success ultimately, but because of the example that they stuck it out. they had premier principles they could articulate, and they stayed with it. i think you're making a great point. >> thank you, sir. it's heartening to hear from you on this topic. i was less optimistic when i interviewed -- professor at yale university, very important author of books like on tyranny, 20 lessons from the 20th century, and the road to freedom. professor schneider, thank you so much for the conversation tonight. >> we have lots more to get here tonight. coming up, lloyd austin says that a bunch of military promotions up before the senate are absolutely critical for u.s. military readiness. why is one republican senator dead set on blocking them? but first, a manhattan grand jury weighs in the indictment that donald trump falsely claimed that he would be arrested last week. that grand jury could now be going on hiatus. with this can mean for the investigation is next.

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arrested eight days ago but that's not according to us. that's the post from the former president two weeks ago that the manhattan da's office was ready to arrest him in relation to the hush money payment that

the former lawyer made to the adult actress stormy daniels in the week of the 2016 election. well he's not the most reliable of sources, a lot of people thought that something was about to happen because days earlier, the manhattan da's office had invited trump to testify before the special grand jury overseeing this case. it's a pretty strong signal than charges are about to be brought. since that moment, the entire country has been an indictment watch, and with good reason. if trump is charged, he would become the first former president ever indicted in american history. alvin bragg, the manhattan da, the guy on the, right will be the first prosecutor to indict a former president. the stakes are huge. to make things even more intriguing, the grand jury investigating trump in manhattan will break for the most of the month of april. the manhattan grand jury assessment -- it's not expected to hear evidence in the case for the next month.

largely due to the largely schedule the hiatus. the break, it would continue to push any indictment of the former president, but we don't know that's necessarily true. the manhattan da's office can still use the grand jury when it meets tomorrow, monday, or wednesday of next week. it makes you wonder what's going on. will he get indicted, or did the case go cold? my guess is as good as yours. there's some great theories out there pointing to some plausible esper explanations. as one former free -- michael cohen has said that at least two things in recent interviews that would ordinarily raised red flags for prosecutors working with an important cooperating witness. this is potentially a large concern, he's not shy about talking for the case. trump's defense will surely use every single statement that he's made if it serves them.

that's one theory. here's another one. the manhattan grand jury weighing potential ash many treasures against donald trump could have voted on monday. we just wouldn't know it yet. former prosecutors told insiders that if they already voted to indict, they don't need to file the indictment immediately, and quote. we're not so sure about this one. who knows. it had to do with allen weisselberg, the former chief financial officer currently serving a five year sentence -- this is for the manhattan times. they warned that they might file new fraud charges against allen weisselberg, and a longtime top executive with trump's real estate business, increasing pressure on him to cooperate in a broader investigation.

and quote. there is a fascinating story, one of the closest confidants of donald trump all his life. do to get out of jail next month, so somebody trying to pressure him to testify against trump, now is the time. our colleagues at nbc saying that his attorneys who are being paid for by the trump organization to represent weisselberg arnaud and representing him. it's a big deal, when that could potentially explain the delay. a lot of questions here for a guy that knows nothing about the law. joining us now, former chief assistant attorney for the former manhattan district attorney cy vance. thanks for being here, thanks for listening to meet populating on things i don't know anything about. you tell me what you think is going on. >> i think all of those things are possible, first for the grand jury is going on i hiatus, because the long term a grand jury for six months a year, whatever they've been called to sit for, they preplanned out

whatever the schedule is going to be. with the public school being out on break, you don't have to count change it right, and so there are two days left in this hiatus, which is tomorrow, thursday, and monday, and it's very possible for that statement that he read saying that they're not going to hear evidence. it's possible that they're never going to hear evidence. they need to be charged on the law and vote. that could happen, we could not know about it for the same reason that we might not know if they voted on monday. it is a secret proceeding and they don't have to file it right away. those things are possible, but i'm very intrigued by the fact that allen weisselberg no longer is being represented. tell me what that means. that is interesting. we work to confirm this through the course of the day. these are the two lawyers representing through this case,

and he's a remarkable story. this is a guy who, at his advanced age, decide is going to go to jail. >> yeah. and >> not cooperate in after the game also to options not go to jail. he's in jail now. tell me what this means in this version of representing. it could mean one of two things, number one, the cases over. >> doesn't need the lawyers anymore. >> they were just representative on that one case. or, more likely i think, there was this pressure campaign put on him, saying while he's in rikers, do you like being there? we're about to bring other charges. and if he testified in the grand jury, you would necessarily know it, he'd be brought in through the back door, because he's incarcerated. unlike the other people who either, like michael cohen, who tells people that he testified or got costello, who tells people that he testified other witnesses. we know about them because we see them going in and out of the building. you would necessarily see allen weisselberg. it's possible he's already testified, we just don't know. >> he probably wouldn't have a

lawyer of some story, we will deal about that? >> no, we would not know about that. >> if you didn't. ellis >> exactly. >> right. >> because it's all secret. it's interesting that those lawyers that were paid for by the trump organization, if he is cooperating, that would make sense why the trump organization is no longer going to pay for his lawyers. >> two weeks ago, when donald trump said he's gonna be arrested, this isn't our business we like to sources, but donald trump the former president of the united states, he wanted it out there, of course everyone sort of wondering what he's gonna be indicted. is a possibility that there is nothing to that? >> i think what he does what he always does. he says things either to bait people, i think he was trying to bait the da's office into telling him what was going on or to make a public statement, he says things to incite people, and that could've been a way to protest, didn't he save protest, protest, protest. and then he said about death and destruction, et cetera. so, i think there's civil reasons why he said that. the reason it came up was because he was offered an

opportunity to testify in the grand jury, which means it's the end of the case. which means it's likely that he is going to get arrested at some point quickly, if they vote to indict. so, he's panicking, because it's about to be arrested. so, he just says stuff. like he does every day. and it turns out to not be true. >> it could be that the case was not ready for an indictment? he ended up calling other witnesses, they had more michael cohen. they had someone to rebut michael cohen's testimony, then they brought david pecker back to. it seems like they're hearing stuff they've heard before. but something is raising questions for the grand jury. >> yeah, well, a grand jury presentation is usually very straightforward. and barebones. there's no opening, there's no closing or summation, there's no cross examination of witness. >> it's a lot of facts. >> just facts, these are the facts, just a fact. but when you give a defendant like you did, donald trump, the opportunity to testify, he said no, but he said i want you to

hear from one of my witnesses. it turns it into a mini trial. >> not what they're designed to be? >> they're not, but this does happen. so, it turns a little bit of a mini trial, so, obviously, robert costello said things that caused the prosecutor to say, i'm going to now rebut that with pecker and potentially other witnesses and documents and records. we just don't know. but there was some question about does alvin bragg have cold feet, is he no longer going to do this. if that were the case, he would not rebut evidence, he would not try to rebut what trump was saying. >> let me ask you this, i'm gonna's get the same answer from every lawyer, i don't know that'll change every prosecutor. that image that donald trump had with a baseball bat, and alvin bragg. it came down, very little, donald trump really deletes anything, he took this post down. rethinking his lawyers must've told him. that's actually a step too far. prosecutors tell me, it's quite rare to get an actual threat, or a material threat like that. >> it is rare, but he

definitely crossed a line. he could be prosecuted for that. that, coupled with calling for death and destruction, he clearly crossed a line that if they wanted to prosecute him, unfortunately, it's just a misdemeanor, if they wanted, if the da's wanted to prosecute him for that, he absolutely cross the line. which is why he's walked it back, he went on tv saying, they put it there. >> they were positive. >> whoever they are. he's clearly walking it back, and even this morning, when he posted on truth social, he was talking to the grand jury saying, how fair minded and wonderful they, are the good grandeurs, and it's a witch hunt. he's talking to them, because he knows he crossed a line there. threatening them. now, he's trying to convince them to not indict him. >> good to see you, thanks for being with us. former district attorney for the former manhattan district attorney. i think i got that wrong, everyday sort of gets what you do. thank, you karen. governing like, i got a title run.

still ahead tonight, republicans continue to push on laws of the state level on two major policy issues, despite the fact that full poll show resoundingly favor democrats. what are they and what are democrats going to do about? claire mccaskill joins me live, to discuss, next. to discuss, next (psst psst) ahhhh... with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary spraying flonase daily gives you long-lasting, non-drowsy relief. (psst psst) flonase. all good.

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in a contest on anyone given day. not approving the recommendation for promotions, actually creates a ripple effect through the force that makes us far less ready than we need to be. >> defense secretary, lloyd austin, yesterday morning, senators on the armed services committee, something republican senator tommy tuberville is doing, could have disastrous consequences for national security. senator tuberville is unilaterally blocking the promotion of dozens of military officers, as many as 160 officers are affected at the moment. hundreds more, including admirals and three enforced -- four star generals, we'll need confirmation by the end of the year. some of these officers are slated to taking over strategic roles, like commanding naval forces in the pacific and middle east, and working as a pentagon liaison to nato's military committee. usually, this massive amount of promotions are approved in groups by unanimous consent, senator tuberville's maneuver means that for him to get, to get past him, the promotions

would have to be approved one by one. which could take weeks. and if you're wondering what would make the senator decide to put a wrench in the deployment of officers and to risk the u.s. military's readiness? here is his explanation. >> as of 12 days ago, y'all got the american taxpayer on the hook. to pay for travel, time off for elective abortions. and you did not make this with anybody, in this room, our congress taken a vote. i'm not going to let our military be politicized. >> i'm not gonna let our military be politicized? by holding up promotions? because you don't like what they're doing? what senator tuberville is referring to is a new department of defense policy that allows service members and their family members reimbursement for travel expenses and up to three weeks of leave if they travel out of state for reproductive care. including abortions. because abortions are reproductive care.

it clarifies a memo from secretary austin last year, after the fall of roe, directing all branches of the military to ensure that members could get access to abortions. senator tuberville's claims that this policy violates the hyde amendment, which prohibits the use of federal funds for abortion. the policy clearly states, it does not. there are military installations and at least 14 states that have banned or mostly banned abortion in more than 230,000 service members and their families live in those states. the pentagon to do policies reducing various helping those members and their eligible family members to get the reproductive health care they need regardless of where their, station let's not miss the irony here senator tuberville says he's not going to let the u.s. military be politicized. that's exactly what he's doing, by holding up military confirmations over his views on abortion when it comes to the politics of abortion, senator government may think he's on

solid ground, that ground is shifting. and we are going to have much more on what that means for democrats in democracy, just ahead, stay with us. tay with us. - what? - especially when it comes to your finances. - are you a certified financial planner™? - i'm a cfp® professional. - cfp® professionals are committed to acting in your best interest. that's why it's gotta be a cfp®.

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house just passed a bill restricting the ability to travel out of state for abortions, the bill makes something called abortion trafficking, helping a minor travel for an abortion, a felony. punishable by up to five years in prison. in north carolina today, house republicans introduced a total abortion ban, from the moment of fertilization. meanwhile, also in north carolina, the republican majority legislature just voted to override the democratic governor's veto of a new law that eliminates background checks for handguns. eliminates background checks for handguns. why would you want those? >> in nebraska last night, republican lawmakers advanced a bill that would allow gun owners to carry a concealed gun in public without a permit. that bill is now one step away for making it to the governors desk for approval. in tennessee, where three adults and three little kids were just shot dead at an elementary school, lawmakers there had been advancing legislation that would lower the minimum age for carrying guns from 21 to 18.

they put it on pause for a little bit. it would almost certainly come back. if that list of state actions on abortion and guns seems daunting to you, you're not alone. republicans across the country keep doubling in tripling down on restricting abortion and loosening access to guns, even though their constituents want the opposite. if you want to know how americans feel about abortion, take a look at this. in florida, and north carolina, more than 60% of residents say they want abortions to be legal. that holds true for other rate states as well. when it comes to guns, republicans seem to be in for a reckoning in the near future. a new harvard institute of politics poll found that 63% of americans aged 18 to 29 support stricter gun laws. when it comes to this never-ending argument about gun reform and abortion, democrats appear to be on the winning side, they've got the support of the american people to get something done. so, how do they either get republicans on their side, or out of the way at this point? how do they use the mandate to move the needle.

rebecca -- the writer for new york magazine and the cut, has an idea. just sees the political opportunity. make battles like abortion rights and gun reform the centerpiece of the democratic party's 2024 agenda. let's talk about that with claire mccaskill, former democratic senator in missouri. clare, good to see you. thank you for being with us tonight. >> thanks, ali. >> there is this constant tension among democrats about whether they should lean into things like this, or lean away from them. right prior to the midterms, a lot of people were saying, lean into the policy things that biden has done, lean into the fight against inflation, leading it to kitchen table issues. what do you make of rebecca's argument, that leaning into this, with respect to common sense gun laws and abortion, the numbers favor democrats. >> well, certainly extreme positions lose elections. most of america is closer to the middle and then they are to the ends. of the spectrum on issues,

particularly ones that are people feel passionately about. so, what happened is, the republicans have gotten into gerrymandered districts, and into areas, and sometimes hole states, that are so republican, they keep trying to go further and further and further to the right. in order to avoid a primary that might cause them a problem. in doing so, they are making our elections, for democrats, much easier. my state is a great example. i keep in mind, when i lost my election in 2018, we had a majority of statewide officeholders, democrats in missouri. today, abortion is illegal from the moment of conception, no exceptions for rape or incest, the missouri legislature, the republicans just voted in block to allow children of any age to carry weapons of war, publicly on the streets of our state.

so, it has gotten so extreme, now it's time for us to talk about these extreme positions. and make them the centerpiece, make them our cultural wars. >> let me ask you about that, when you say a lot of republicans stake out these extreme positions because of the fear of being primary, is always a fear of being primaried, a group of fear of being primaried on the right. on these two issues, which of rebecca -- if her argument holds, they become center pieces for republicans, there is a lot of money that comes from anti-abortion groups in a lot of money that comes from the nra. it's a protection racket, basically, for elected politicians. not a lot to overcome, it's not a matter of asking republicans to moderate their positions, it's asking them to possibly give up their seat. >> listen, there's no question that there is money on these issues. especially on the extreme positions. both guns in abortion. what thing that happened, ali,

that didn't used to be the case, there are lots of folks out there that give five, ten, $20. if i had a bit right now, i would bet the women of america are ready to give serious money, maybe only in 20 dollar increments, but serious money to any candidate, in a general election, who says i'm tired of her children getting slaughtered. if we can manage to put our children in car seats, because the data shows it saved lives. we ought to be able to manage to get weapons of war, that were designed for only one thing, to kill as many human beings as quickly as possible, we ought to be able to manage to get them off the streets entirely. and i believe that issue, in most districts in america, would be a winning issue in a general election. i'm not sure that you can survive a republican primary right now, because the extreme wing of the republican party is ascending. they are in control. i think, in general elections,

someone who takes these issues to heart, and campaigned on them with passion, i think it's a winner for people who believe we've gone way too far on both the subjects. >> clare, always great to have on these topics, in this particular case, i want to speak to you because of your own history. in a state like missouri. let's look at this last midterm election, in places where republican state out extreme positions, arizona, pennsylvania, michigan and democrats were victorious. the example in michigan, most intrigues me on this. the abortion matter was a ballot measure, it was front and center for a lot of democrats, the gun issue is very, very big in michigan. the democrats swept that, gretchen whitmer, at the top of the ticket, i'm intrigued by that. how much of that was gretchen whitmer as blueprint for what remember rebecca is talking about. and how much of that is the democrats in michigan were running against some pretty extreme republicans. >> i think there's a little of both. i want to give, as they like to

call her greenwich, the credit, governor gretchen whitmer is strong and passionate. and is a wonderful role model for women everywhere. who want to lean on the subjects. also, the republican party in michigan, is a good example of where they really embrace the far-right extreme. and all of the militia action up there, even her being threatened by kidnapping, all of that played into the hands of most michigan voters, who want to be somewhere where we can see the middle. not necessarily, i mean it's fine to have really progressive values, but most people want there to be some normalcy, they do not want extremes. when republicans keep nominating very extreme people, and you combine that with a passionate strong leader, on issues like individual freedom when it comes to deciding what to do with your own body, then you have a winning combination. and she did not have as quite as much ground to overcome, as you might in states like, for

example, jon tester has to run, in montana. or sherrod brown has to run in ohio. she still did a great job, as to the rest of the ticket. pointing out how extreme and unacceptable the other side was. >> we could go on for a very long time about this conversation, i actually hope we do. i'm learning a lot from you, as i always do. clare, good to see you as always, thank you. >> thank you. >> we have one more story for you tonight, how one tiny south pacific island nations victory at the u.n. today is set to make a gigantic impact on global climate justice. it's coming up next. coming up next. and saved $652. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. with the money we saved, we thought we'd try electric unicycles. whoa! careful, babe! saving was definitely easier. hey babe, i think i got it! it's actually... whooooa! ok, show-off! help! oh! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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the draft resolution based on the 77 and 58. it is so decided. [applause] >> that was a scene at the united nations general assembly today, if the dry sounding

language didn't clue you in that something big was happening, maybe the vigorous applause after the gavel went down, the people in the audience taking cell phone videos. during what they clearly consider to be an historic moment. what happened today was spearheaded by the tiny south pacific nation of vanna what, to population to enter thousand, spread out across the archipelago comprised of about three 83 islands. for vonda what to, climate change is no longer theoretical. they are increasingly being pounded by cyclones, while also planning to relocate dozens of vehicles villages away from coastal areas within the next coastal use because of severe sea level wise. today vanuata got 193 member states of the united nations to all agree on something no dissent. the thing they agreed on was to kick the usual well-intentioned but to those conversations around climate change up a notch. by getting the entire assembled world body to agree to ask the international court of justice, in the hague, for a ruling on

who bears responsibility for the destructive effects of climate change, and what nations that are literally drowning, can force the biggest carbon emitters to do. obviously, this is one small step in what will still prove to be a much longer journey than it should be. but take the winds. well you still can. that does for us tonight, i'll see you again here tomorrow, or a minute, you can catch me on weekends at 10 am eastern, right here on msnbc. it is time now for the last word with my friend, lawrence o'donnell. good evening, sir. >> good evening, ali. thank you we have a lot to get to tonight. thank you. >> senator sheldon whitehouse will join us tonight, after winning a victory for ethical transparency of the united states supreme court. we begin tonight with investigation news. the latest legal development of the day is the news that donald trump has launched another delay tactic. in special prosecutor, jack smith, federal grand jury investigation of donald trump's activities leading up to an