would be around this. it was another moment in which it's clear that democrats and allies of the president even felt like they were caught flat footed. it's not that they necessarily would have changed their votes had the white house talked to them before they made their announcement, but they just feel like there isn't the same level of cooperation and coordination that there has been in the past. namely, under someone like ron klain, the former chief of staff who, as i said, had great relationships on the hill and made it a point to get down there all the time and talk to the folks to be sure they were involved. >> the building behind you has been consumed with talk about guns this week. we heard emotional democrats yesterday confronting republican colleagues. what's their plan if there is no effort -- the gop isn't going to budge on legislation. what is the democratic plan to get this in front of voters? >> we'll see them hammering against republicans. it can draw a contrast between the parties. they look at public polling that has shown over time americans

are for open to banning assault weapons. they'll hammer that message. >> alexi, thank you for being with us this morning. we appreciate it. thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" on this thursday morning. jack-packed "morning joe" starts right now. one of the constants over the years is baseball. america has rolled by like an army of steamrollers, built like a blackboard, erased and erased again. but baseball has marked the time. this field, this game, it's a part of our past, ray. it reminds us of all that once was good, and it could be again. oh, people will come, ray. people will most definitely come. >> willie.

>> there you go. good morning. >> that line. >> welcome to "morning joe." >> all that was good. 30th. >> all can be good once again. >> so many l opening day. >> opening day, yes. very exciting, huh? >> best part about opening day is, no matter who you are, any team, there's hope. right now, sitting here this morning, there's hope. now, hey -- >> there's a pointer there. >> i'm with you. 15 minutes into the game -- >> six hours from now. >> right now, this is the moment, opening day. everybody has a chance. >> we have the team here. jonathan, willie, joe and me. >> yeah. >> "the circus." >> yeah. >> we have "the circus" team. >> yeah. >> does that work? >> you did a great job. >> thank you. >> you come in new york, it feels like baseball weather, 23 degrees. >> chilly, yup. >> 13 up in boston. >> snow flurries. >> it'll be a blizzard. >> oh, and katty is here.

katty kay. >> katty loves baseball. >> i feel left out. i want to be around the table with you guys. >> i know. what are you doing? >> no doubt about it. >> there is hope. there is hope. unless -- >> there is no hope. >> -- you're the child of donald trump. >> oh, i know. >> did you see this, willie? >> i heard about it. >> it's one of the best things -- >> i guess they're not getting along. >> -- in years. >> maybe they won't work on the campaign. it's so funny. these are the type of videos i always think of, like, when people who hate biden go, "oh, he's losing his mind." then you see this and go -- >> what? >> -- he stutters. sometimes he falls off a bike. but this is just pure, unadulterated crazy. >> allow me just to say one thing about this. >> yeah. >> his campaign in the context of kind of making him appear to

be a more traditional, normal candidate, he has been putting out policy videos on the trump 2024 website. >> we have that, yeah. >> this is a two-camera, scripted -- >> expensive. >> -- policy statement on -- >> for the campaign. >> on farmers. >> sometimes he wanders off into right field and is looking around. what's my name? >> saying, i don't like my kids. >> here, look at this. >> here it is. >> this is supposed to be lining 'em up for farm voters in iowa. he's got this big iowa push. >> yeah. >> he's talked about it before. he has all this money for farmers, and then he wanders off into left field and starts, like, taunting his children. take a look. >> i made farmers happy and rich again, and they're doing a fantastic job. you know what? someday, it'll become time for

them to leave this beautiful earth. they'll be able to leave their farm without taxes to their children. i got rid of the debt tax on farms so that when you do pass away, on the assumption that you love your children, you can leave it to them and they won't have to pay tax. but if you don't love your so much, and there are some people that don't, and maybe deservedly so, it won't matter because, frankly, you don't have to leave them anything. thank you very much. have fun. >> have fun. >> man, i'll tell you what, if you don't love your children. >> thank you very much, have fun? >> some of them deservedly so, you don't have to leave them anything. thank you very much. have fun. >> have fun is the kicker. >> wow. >> that wasn't on the teleprompter. >> did somebody punch that up? >> that was the ad lib. >> yeah.

>> it's not working on the campaign. >> someone is cut off. >> you have the notion of, but if you don't happen to love your children -- just that concept. as a presidential candidate, but if you don't love your children, you can screw them. by the way, you might not love them for good reason. >> here's the thing, when we starts doing this, you know, evangelicals and everybody else goes, "oh, he is jesus' only son. he is jesus' representative on earth." you just sit and watch all this crazy stuff, all this hating stuff. you just say, come on. this is the best you've got? jen, have you ever seen anything like this? it isn't like, oh, he's a disrupter. it's like, he's out of his mind. >> but you know what i saw last night? a poll from fox news with him at 54% of the republican primary, right? up from last month from 43%.

he has jumped 12 points. he was up -- last month, he was up 15 points over desantis. now, he is up 30 points over desantis. >> you know why? i mean, he's being -- because desantis might as well move to massachusetts. >> if you don't -- >> buy michael dukakis' lawn mower and mow the lawn while he is getting crushed every day. i mean, what did the caucus learn in '88? you don't respond to the attacks, you sink in the polls. i know, people too young for that reference? you know, bush kept attacking dukakis. dukakis would be, "i'm just up here taking care of my lawn." he had his little push lawn mower. he turns around and loses a 25-point lead. desantis, doing nothing, while trump is doing this. >> ron desanctimonious is being crushed in the poll, all of

them. many globalists are having second thoughts. paul ryan and jeb "low energy" bush, are beside themselves. they don't know what's going on. they are witnessing a cratering of this magnitudemagnitude. they should have told ron they're trying to destroy social security and medicare, and having voted to destroy them three times is not a good thing to do. also, his record on the china virus, crime and education, despite his ever-spinning pr machine, is absolutely abysmal. thank you. >> is he okay? >> if there is a side, cut-away shot that makes me look that crazy, please stay off of that one. >> we call it the neck fat camera. >> i'm stuck on -- >> incredible stuff. >> -- if you don't love your kids, and sometimes deservedly so. >> i mean, it's what they wanted us to see.

they edited that and put it out. that's what he wanted us to see. >> i know, that's the edited part. people around -- he goes, how was it? good one. good. who are these people? >> horrible. >> i know we play this. first of all, there's a thing of -- i mean, if i'm iivanka, tiffany -- >> they're cut out. >> we talked about this. >> okay, okay. >> let's not talk about the kids. this isn't about the kids. >> okay. >> what's in his head? >> well, that's worse. >> pauline? >> maybe he didn't know he did it. >> we can laugh around the table, and that was laughable. >> they're all laughable. >> he's only getting stronger. people wishing him away, he's not going away. he's not going away. he got indicted four times, and he is not going away. his support in the republican party is so strong. ron desantis, as we've been

saying a long time, is an idea. he is the alternative, potential alternative for some people who hope and wish trump would go away. he is not even a candidate yet. it is donald trump's to lose. there is nothing we see in data or anything we know about the party or donald trump who says it'll change. >> your voice slipped into trump, he's only getting stronger. >> i didn't mean to. >> love your children. thank you very much. have fun. >> have fun? >> have fun. >> have fun hating. >> have fun. >> the thing is, democrats, really, republicans, they just -- i got to tell you, they're like -- you think that it's like it used to be, where they're behind, like, the doors at night. no, they're going, "oh, my god, how stupid are republicans? how dumb are republicans? they're going to drive this clown car over the cliff again and lose again." should i go through the years?

you know the years. you haven't won since 2016. >> got four hours. >> that's like chicago cub stuff right there. you haven't won since 2016. >> to the point, jen mentioned the poll, trump doubled his lead over desantis in the last month. it has doubled. i think we're going to show it in a second. >>let show this poll. americans just don't care. i mean, republicans don't care. >> right. >> if he is indicted. should it disqualify him for running for president? 57% say yes. only 23% in the republican party. >> wow. >> 75% of republicans say it shouldn't disqualify him for running for president. >> three out of four. >> they're going to -- you know, i just -- i used to be a republican. i don't know if you guys knew that or not. >> is that right? >> i used to run for republican. >> when was that, joe? >> you would like to still be. >> literally, mika loves this

story, it is fulfilling about my dad. we were driving around on my first re-elect. i had 73% of the vote. i was sitting in the front seat. we were picking up yard signs. i thought my dad was going to be proud. who the hell are those 27%? joey, you have to go after them. what in the hell is going -- >> yeah. >> people want to know why i'm crazy, because that's how all republicans used to be. we used to despise losing, hate it. now, they're a bunch of losers. they want to lose. >> yeah, it's hard to see -- as stronger as trump is getting in the primary, he is going to be that much weaker in the general election. what voter voted for him in '16, broke away in '20, and now says to themselves, you know what, 2024, now is the time. i like what trump has done these last four years. the farmers video really got me. i'm for him right now. that's what the democrats are looking at, too. they understand, there are some, perhaps, enthusiasm issues with president biden, but they look

at this potential rematch, and they go, people will turn out, swing voters as well as democrats, to turn out to vote against trump. >> what'd we learn from the midterm elections? what we learned from the midterm elections, jen, is joe biden's low poll numbers -- and, republicans, don't believe this if you don't want to. i don't care. i want you to keep losing as long as you act like fascists. joe biden's poll numbers are false positives. his numbers are low because people think he is old. they think he is too old to be president. they love his policies. they think maybe he doesn't have the energy. they want somebody younger, somebody more vital. when push comes to shove, and one of my kids told me this the other day. she said, you know, start having conversations now with friends that we disagree with. she said, it's the weirdest thing. nobody likes joe biden, yet everybody understands it. the temperature has gone down, like, 30 degrees. i said, that's the best thing i have heard all week.

it's true. maybe people say, oh, he is too old. the end of the day, they're false positives. we found that out in the midterm elections. republicans running the clown car off the cliff. they'll lose again to biden. >> the public proved in '20, '22, they understand what's at stake. they understand. democracy is on the line. they understand the issues on the line. they're going to turn out to vote in droves. election deniers in '22. >> i don't know where the big picture is for the republican party. here's a -- >> can i make one small amendment to that? >> yeah. >> if i'm joe biden's team, i'm not psyched about a large number of people in the country worried about -- who don't like the idea of a president in his 80s. i'm worried the republicans will get their act together and put

forward someone who is not donald trump. >> it is crazier for the republican party. you'll be sitting there going, this guy, they don't like the idea of this guy being president. put somebody up who is a normal candidate. >> i always say, you want to turn things around? you have to change the dynamic. what is the dynamic you have to change so the game changes? change the dynamic. as long as you don't change the dynamic, if you lost in '17, '18, '19, '20, '21, '22, you're going to lose in '24, but they're not. if it is ron desantis versus joe biden, we all have our problems with ron desantis, you've just changed the dynamic. the biden team has a reason to be very worried.

if it's trump and biden, go to france for a month. he's lost his mind. now, he is fighting his own children. he said he wanted to terminate the constitution. >> and their inheritance. >> they'll still win. >> the country doesn't like election denial. they don't like the insurrection. they didn't like what happened on capitol hill on january 6th. who is the guy republicans rally behind? the guy on stage with the convict choir. >> convict choir. >> talk about not changing the dynamic. what are you doing? >> it's just really unbelievable. they got the convict choir. donald trump says he wants to terminate the constitution. >> yes. >> look at the numbers. wants to terminate the constitution. mika, there's a new piece in the "st. louis dispatch." >> this is backing up the point in a different way. columnist lynn schmidt says it is too late to challenge trump, his control of the party and

base. trump has enough voters. he has control of the state parties. he has a significant influence over the national party. and his opponents have done too little to distinguish themselves from trump. let alone explain why he shouldn't be president again. the resentment that trump voters feel hasn't changed the last seven years. to think they have is foolish. my neighbor just replaced his somewhat tattered trump flag with a brand-new one, which, incidentally -- >> fly it high, friend. >> exklains, "biden sucks." he, like other republican base voters, still loves trump. the time for wishing trump out of the national picture is long gone. this is me now. they've missed their window. the window is, unfortunately, now, these crazy moments. >> i don't know if he missed his window. the question is, can he go toe to toe with donald trump? the answer we've seen is no.

it doesn't seem like it. >> republicans missed their movie. >> this is something we've been saying a long time, let's see who else gets in. see if somebody will take him on directly. ron desantis is probably the best guy to do that. again, there's nothing in the data, there's nothing we know about the modern republican party, there's nothing we know about donald trump for the last eight years or whatever it's been, that says the dynamic is going to change. if he can lead an attempted coup against the united states government, get away with it and still have 75% of the party say, i don't think they should do anything about it, even if he is charged with something, he should still run for president, if that doesn't matter to them, what is changing the dynamic? if staging an attempts coup against the government, an attack on the capitol, doesn't change how people feel about him in the republican party, i don't think nikki haley or ron desantis is going to. >> i agree. >> it's still march. it's super early polls.

it's polls for the last eight years that have had -- you know, it is not pulled from a new batch of presidential candidate that the voters have never seen before. he's led in presidential primaries for eight years. you know, it just doesn't -- "the post" had a story, you talked about it on "way too early," probably republicans in d.c. looking around at alternatives. scott reid, who ran bob dole's campaign, was in the piece. around the fall, people will get a look maybe. nikki haley or chris christie if he gets in or -- >> yeah. >> you know, we love sports analogies here. i am loathe to compare donald trump to anybody favorably. but this is mike tyson when he is heavyweight champion. as far as the republican party goes, you have tyson and everybody else. maybe buster douglas lands a

punch. i don't think so. this isn't one of those things, you don't back into a fight with mike tyson. that's what all of these people are doing. they're such wimps. they've got go after him hard. they've got to smother him in the center of the ring. they have to be relentless. they have to do what we are doing here. going, dude, if you have problems with your kids, i assure you, nobody in iowa wants to hear about it. you take that into your little fake gold plated living room with all of your trust fund babies, and you do it, okay? >> not that hard. >> we'd rather talk about, oh, i don't know, the economy, you know, the price of bread, the cost of prescriptions, whatever it is. it's not that hard. nobody can do it. >> donald, you can be the candidate for the republican voters who don't love their children. i, on the other hand, will be for voters in the republican party who love their children. let's stack that policy straight up against each other.

>> i think they can say things like "i don't kick sideways" instead of -- >> i'm still trying tofigure that out. >> it's an excuse not to use strength. a convict choir is wrong. it is sick. it is an insult to our democracy. i would never do that. i don't even understand what's going on there. >> katty, the question was asked yesterday, what would republicans do if it was bernie sanders' last campaign, and he went around the country with a convict choir. >> in his mitten. >> and the puffer. >> what would republicans say? okay, i'm not going to do it again. let's have the convict choir. they're going to sing the song, and i'm going to pledge allegiance to convicts. what would republicans say? >> i suspect even bernie sanders

would have gone around and said he loved his kids, right, or his supporters loved their kids. i don't know he would have gone that far, mittens or no mittens. you know, the only counter argument to all of this is that there are glimmers that desantis has a window, an edge with some key voters, particularly the monmouth poll showing he was ahead with evangelical voters. is there a chance they come to iowa, you know, trump had an upset like in 2016? i know he accused ted cruz of stealing, i think it was stealing iowa. sounds familiar, right? i just think there are possibilities for desantis. he's got to show that he has the backbone to take on trump, and we haven't seen any of that yet. certain evangelical voters aren't looking at trump the say way. doesn't look like he'll get 80%. they got their supreme court theyroe overturned. there's a window for somebody, i think, with that section of the republican base.

>> do you -- >> i love my kids, and by the way, vote for me. >> i went to a mike pence event at bob jones university, okay? >> there you go. >> evangelical school. >> yes, it is. >> and everyone, they loved vice president pence. they love hearing him testimony to his face. love it if we had a absolutely nominee for that. would you vote for donald trump? absolutely. >> the guy who hates his kids. >> joe, as you were talking about the mike tyson analogy, which he was out-planned, right? everyone has plans. well, you'll be hit in the face. katty is right, there is a window. you have to go on the debate stage against donald trump. how does ron desantis do against chris christie? >> charlie crist. >> yeah. >> made him look foolish. >> and andrew gillum. >> i know. that's why, i have to say, i just -- desantis really is

another florida governor that's going to get crushed by donald trump. you know, if desantis runs against trump, jonathan lemire, his best shot, and i mean this, he's got to bow out of the debates. he has to say, i don't need to debate that guy. he's crazy. i don't want to hear about him hating his kids. i'm saying, he can't take him one-on-one on the debit stage. he just can't. do what republicans are talking about doing in the general election, don't do debates. that's his only shot. >> yeah. i mean, the republican apparatus does seem, part of the establishment, wanting to rally around desantis. his super pac has big-name operatives. there's going to be fundraising that's going to come. they're making noise about it. but he's not in. he's not going to get in. the danger here is, if you remain silent, you let your opponent define the race. the opponent is donald trump, who is defining the race by bludgeoning him each and every

day. >> alex just gave me the name that is the future. >> yeah? >> you ghost your opponent. you become the katie hobbs of the republican party. >> oh, that's pretty good. >> i'm going to go home and sit in my living room. >> that's not what she did. >> and watch -- >> okay. >> -- runs of "sopranos." >> she did events, but she did not do debates. >> don't rewrite history. she's the governor. >> she is the governor. >> it worked. >> i doubted her strategy, and it worked. >> we doubted her. >> by the way, every doubted her. democrats. by the way, what did you say about katie hobbs? only repeating what every democrat in arizona told me, what every journalist told me. >> it seemed also to make sense, you should do the debates. >> anyone following the katie hobbs strategy, i look forward to the moment when the reporters, you know, it worked for katie hobbs with kari lake.

good idea. i like it. we'll get back to politics in a moment. we have breaking news out of russia to get to. the russian news agency interfax is reporting that a "wall street journal" reporter has been detained on spying charges. according to russia's federal security service, a reporter covering russia-ukraine in the former soviet union is, quote, suspected in espionage in the interest of the american government. interfax notes that the u.s. citizen faces up to 20 years in prison. "the wall street journal" released a statement that vehemently denies the allegations and seeks the immediate release of our trusted and dedicated reporter. >> jonathan, here's vladimir putin acting like a thug again. russia acting like a country again that never wants to be back into the world community. the war is going to come to an

end at some point, and him doing this, he might as well be iran. he's a thug. it's a criminal regime. if he thinks this is going to help in any way, he is badly misreading the west. >> this reporter's byline was about the decaying economy in russia. obviously, people didn't like that. "the wall street journal" condemning this, but it is true. it underscores the dangers that reporters are going through, reporting whether it is in ukraine or, in this case, in russia. as russia cracks down on free speech, on any dissent thought, and now this reporter is being detained, an american citizen being detained. to your point, joe, it shows that putin is -- has -- is severing connections with the rest of the world. he knows there will be consequences here. he is willing to make the calculation, perhaps for a trade. we don't know if he'll try to barter something with this reporter or not. that's been early speculation. it's dangerous stuff. >> we have to trade f-16s. tell you what, we're going to

give ukraine ten f-16s. or we'll give them 20. give him back, and we'll give him 20. wouldn't you like to join in the conversation? >> yes, he would. >> it's a test for republicans, wouldn't you say? >> i was trying to complete a thought. >> that's okay. >> i didn't mean to cut you off. >> it's the breakfast table. it's what we do. >> jump in. >> i saw mika thinking the same thing. >> yeah. >> this is a test for republicans. we've seen a lot of putin love, not just from donald trump but desantis, other people. here's a test. presidential candidates, are you rallying around this reporter and criticizing russia? >> do you know vladimir putin has a higher approval rating in the republican party than joe biden? >> i didn't know that, but i'm not surprised to hear it. >> he does. >> scary. >> that's the test for the republican party. >> okay. >> kidnapping journalists, killing civilians in ukraine.

>> yeah. breaking news out of kentucky this morning. several casualties being reported after two u.s. army black hawk helicopters crashed during a training incident. it happened last night near the army base fort camcampbell. the injuries and people involved not released. kentucky governor bashir said fatalities are expected. in a tweet, the army's 101st airborne division wrote that it is focusing on the soldiers and families involved. >> a lot of breaking news. still ahead on "morning joe," we're following the very latest on the investigation into this week's mass shooting at a school in nashville. we'll have that and a look at where the fight over gun safety stands on capitol hill. plus, the ceo of starbucks and senator bernie sanders face off over allegations of illegal union busing tactics. also this morning, bipartisan opposition to banning tiktok is emerging on capitol hill. we'll have the latest on the

fight over that popular app. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. >> what is it again? >> i made farmers happy and rich again. they're doing a fantastic job. you know what? someday, it'll become time for them to leave this beautiful earth, and they'll be able to leave their farm without taxes to their children. i got rid of the death tax on farms so that when you do pass away, on the assumption that you love your children, you can leave it to them and they won't have to pay tax. but if you don't love your children so much, and there are some people that don't, and maybe deservedly so, it won't matter because, frankly, you don't have to leave them anything. thank you very much. have fun.

we must finally hold social media companies accountable. it's time to pass bipartisan legislation to stop big tech from collecting personal data on our kids and teenagers online. ban targeted advertising to children. what causes a curve down there? is it peyronie's disease? will it get worse? how common is it? who can i talk to? can this be treated? stop typing. start talking to a specialized urologist. because it could be peyronie's disease, or pd. it's a medical condition where there is a curve in the erection, caused by a formation of scar tissue. and an estimated 1 in 10 men may have it. but pd can be treated even without surgery. say goodbye to searching online. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose pd and build a treatment plan with you. visit makeapdplan.com today.

first, there's an idea and you do something about it for the first time with godaddy. then before you know it, (it is a life changer...) you make your first sale. small business first. never stopped coming.

(we did it!) and you have a partner that always puts you first way. (no way!) start today at godaddy.com. quality healthcare goes beyond prescriptions and procedures. it's about making people feel ca no one knows that better than physician associates because we don't just see patien we see you. a one-of-a-kind person with one-of-a-kind needs. and we'll never stop going beyon to deliver the care you deserve. see how pas bring human connecti to healthcare. visit pas go beyond dot com. next on behind the series... let me tell you about the greatest roster ever assembled. the monster, the outlaw... and you can't forget about the boss.

sometimes- you just want to eat your heroes. the subway series. the greatest menu of all time. mike pence has not announced he is running for president yet, but he was chatting with voters in iowa today. i'd like you to pay special attention to the man in the background to his right who seemed more interested in his breakfast than in the former vice president. >> wonderful to be with you. i appreciate you all coming out. looking forward to hearing what might be on your mind. literally, one of my son-in-laws is a lieutenant in the united states navy. my life changed a lot since the last time most of us were together. a young pastor said, what do you think we ought to do? the farmer said, reverend, she

stretched her arms out. it's about what you with say then. of course, it runs away. got out his notes. 45 minutes later, he made the strongest military in the history of the world. i told him thing he is didn't want to hear. [ laughter ] >> roe v. wade to the ash heap. if anybody asks a question, it was the greatest honor of my life. thank you, iowa. >> there ya go. i mean, come on. >> holy cow. >> you might want to -- >> that was amazing. >> several courses. >> i was going to say, that was joey chestnut in iowa. eggs and the hot dog. >> looks good. looked yummy. >> it was a play in three acts. had the food coma. laid his head against the wall.

then pulls himself -- >> couldn't they zoom in? >> he came back and went for the third round. >> i don't know. >> we talked about mike tyson. the mike tyson of eating. >> ref tried to count him out. he was saved by the bell. came back for round three. >> amazing. >> finished the fight. >> won on points. >> "the circus" was there, so i'm sure our cameras zeroed in on that. wait for that on sunday. >> yeah. there is more evidence that fox news knew claims of election fraud were false but continued to air the misinformation anyway. a judge just ordered previously redacted slides presented by dominion's lawyers to be made public. the voting machine company is suing the network for defamation, claiming it was severely damaged by claims put forward by fox news hosts and guests. the slides show internal communications and testimony at fox, including messages from the

fox brain room, which was responsible for fact-checking at the network. one communication from the brain room ten days after the 2020 election says, claims about dominion switching or deleing votes for 100% false. another message reads, the facts, there is no evidence of widespread fraud in the 2020 election. another important revelation comes from suzanne scott. an email she sent to another fox executive, complaining about a reporter fact-checking claims from then president trump. >> it was a massive dump of votes. mostly biden. almost all biden. to this day, everyone is trying to figure out, where did it come from? >> we heard the president say it, he brands it a massive dump of votes. election officials say it is not what he implies. they say there's no nefarious

big batch for biden, just votes they insist are being counted properly as the law requires. >> after that aired, scott wrote, "this has to stop now. this is bad business. the audience is furious. bad for business." a fox news spokesperson said that scott was not opposing fact-checking itself. this is not about fact-checking. the issue at hand is one host calling out another, the spokesperson said. there's also an exchange between the staff of a fox news primetime show about my pillow ceo mike lindell, who is still pushing election conspiracy theories to this day. they justify having him on the show because he is a major advertiser on the network. quote, i know there is a concern about him being a conspiracy theorist now, but he has bailed us out loads of times when no one else would. he's also been moving to newsmax lately.

might be a good business move to signal we wouldn't desert him. another staff member writes, he is crazy and about to be sued by dominion. wtf, is he going to say on our air. fox wrote a statement about the slides. quote, these documents once again demonstrate dominion's reliance on cherry-picked quotes without context to generate headlines in order to distract from the facts of this case. it goes on to say, the network will continue to fiercely advocate for the first amendment in protecting the role of news organizations to cover the news. >> just to underline one thing, there are also fox news hosts who called for the firing of people who told the truth on the air. that wasn't just limited to suzanne scott instance there. katty kay, you've seen this in

britain, news corps being sued. >> may have to testify. >> in this case, it looks like the judge is having nothing of the rupert murdoch protests, saying he can fly to new york from wilmington, delaware, on his honeymoon. in the case in london, did you have murdoch and all these other big news tv hosts coming on and testifying on the stand. >> no. i mean, there is a different standard here in the uk. this is, i think, what is worrying people inside news corps reportedly. the fit and proper requirement to be a media organization owner in the uk could impact rupert murdoch's businesses here. in 2013, there were libel suits and legal suits around phone

tabbing. that split off fox news originally, to try to protect fox. here, it's a question of, is murdoch going to be -- if fox is found culpable over their reporting on 2020, and there is, you know, a big charge and fines against them, would that impact murdoch in the uk, who owns talk tv, which is the show that hosts piers morgan's show. that could then have a wider impact on his businesses around the world. that's what is worrying people inside news corps at the moment. >> jen, we say, how do trump supporters get around all the facts they're presented with every day? people say, well, they just watch one network or another network. they still get the facts. they still know. by the way, i don't think they believe most of it. in fact, i know they don't. they're just reading news that makes them feel good. >> if so --

>> in this case, though, just curious, how do they process the fact that the people have been trump's biggest cheerleaders, the biggest cheerleaders forlec biggest cheerleaders for lying about covid, all these other things, like, we now find out from the text messages, they hate donald trump. don't just hate donald trump, but literally say the same thing off the air about donald trump that liberal democrats say off the air about donald trump. they worry every day when he is president of the united states that the country may not survive. he is detestable. like, all of them talking trash about donald trump. i mean, i'm just curious, is that breaking through with fox news viewers? >> they don't get that. >> or they think that all of these hosts never said that? >> i talked to trump supporters

about, you know, this -- these specific set of questions. most of the people i talk to, when you say, are you aware of the dominion lawsuit, they're like, oh, dominion. they think it's about -- they don't think it's about dominion suing fox. they think it is something to do with dominion being responsible for the algorithm that robbed donald trump of millions of votes. some people are familiar with the text messages. a couple people were like, yeah, it's disappointing. you know, they believe what they want to believe. they look for the facts that they can, like, hold on to that make everything okay. the ecosystem that donald trump built, so they can believe what they're inclined to believe anyway. the only time -- the only people i talked to who said they would no longer watch fox, with anything having to do with the election, is because they had called the election correctly. >> arizona. >> oh, my gosh.

>> fox telling them the truth is why they'll no longer watch fox. >> this is a challenge. again, i don't really -- it's very complicated. no way to tell how it is going to turn out. as far as the fact pattern that would be more troubling for fox, it's the fact that i've never seen a network lose as many viewers as quickly as fox did to newsmax after that arizona call you're talking about. put into context thesepanicked calls to stop fact-checking, stop telling voters the truth. it would have been different if their numbers stayed different. it's very clear, you look at the fact pattern, they were responding to, what, i remember calling phil griffin and say, i've never seen anything like

this. this is the greatest shift. everybody is like, we're going the hire so and so, and our ratings are going to go up in cable news. no. it's like a wave. it starts, like, in the indian ocean, and it creeps up. cable news is a years' long endeavor, right? you don't gain audiences fast. you don't lose audiences fast. fox, more than anybody, it seems, lost the viewers after the arizona call. all of these texts, all of this stuff comes with that backdrop. they had a reason to behave maliciously, is what dominion will say. >> lie to their viewers. >> i'm trying to be polite. >> the viewership collapsed after the arizona call. they were the first to do it. we know the white house, jared kushner and others, called angrily, trying to have murdoch reverse it that night.

they didn't. it took a while to repair the viewership because of the anger. they don't want to touch that again, it'd appear. we've now seen this interesting walk going forward where they've sort of -- after putting trump to the side and giving desantis favorable coverage, they've started to reembrace trump. he sat down with sean hannity, first interview in months. people at fox are nervous about it. if you are president biden and the democrats, do you deal with this network after they willingly lied about the election and leaked advertising data, campaign ad strategy, to the trump campaign. >> you know, you deal with everybody. you just do. i know people don't like -- but pete buttigieg going on fox news actually has an impact with fox news viewers. i hear it. nobody is ever going to vote for him who watches, but it does have an impact. but you're right, though, i mean, they had a reason.

it's gong to be difficult. >> the real-time correspondent is compelling. they saw the viewers fleeing and were freaking out. >> they had hosts actually saying, "we have to reverse the call." >> arizona call on election day. they were right with the other networks in declaring president on saturday, a few days later. right there alongside everybody else. >> let me stop you. they had the call first, and they refused. they had actually built the most advanced, best system to project. it's how they got arizona right. >> the brain room. >> they had the -- they had the win called, and they refused to call it because they didn't want to make people angry. >> didn't want to be first. it's never been their pattern or practice. the interesting thing around this case, why has fox not settled it? it'd clearly be their interest. murdoch would pay a lot of money not to have these texts come out. will we see the lawsuit

eventually get to court? the judge is not going to do summary judgments. we'll have a court day in april. the interesting suggestion to people who have seen these cases a long time is that the fact that we got to the place where all this discovery became public suggests that, appropriate, fox news tried to have the settlement discussions with dominion already. they said, "we're not interesti" we want our name to be cleared in court. we don't want your $1.6 million. probably not what they offered, but there's not a way for fox to settle this if they wanted to. it'll be a spectacular spectacle, the hosts being made about this. when you said that about donald trump, what'd you mean. >> there is always a number that people will take. maybe fox didn't go high enough. >> there was a number that led to -- i mean, how much would you pay?

i don't know. >> okay. >> it's worth an awful lot to stop that spectacle. >> yeah. coming up, for the first time since 1968, all 30 major league baseball teams will play their first games of the season on the same day. >> you don't like reading stories about baseball, do you? >> theo epstein. i was trying not to get it wrong. this is important to you. mlb consultant theo epstein, the former red sox and cubs executive joins us straight ahead on "morning joe." - this is our premium platinum coverage map and this is consumer cellular's map. - i don't see the difference, do you?

- well, that one's purple. - [announcer] get the exact same coverage as the nation's leading carrier. starting at $20. consumer cellular. (pensive music) (footsteps crunching) (pensive music) (birds tweeting) (pensive music) (broom sweeping) - [narrator] one in five children worldwide are faced with the reality of living without food. no family dinners, no special treats, no full bellies. all around the world, parents are struggling to feed their children. toddlers are suffering from acute malnutrition, which stunts their growth. kids are forced to drop out of school so they can help support their families. covid, conflict, inflation and climate have ignited the worst famine in our lifetime. and we're fed up.

fed up with the fact that hunger robs children of their childhood. fed up with the lack of progress. fed up with the injustice. help us brighten the lives of children all over the world by visiting getfedupnow.org. for as little as $10 a month, you can join save the children as we support children and families in desperate need of our help. now is the time to get fed up and give back. when you join the cause, your $10 monthly donation can help communities in need of life-saving treatments and nutrients, prevent children from dropping out of school. support our work with communities and governments to help children go from short-term surviving to long-term thriving. and now thanks to special government grants, every dollar you give before december 31st can multiply up to 10 times the impact. that means more food, water, medicine and help for kids around the world. you'll also receive a free tote bag to share your support

for children in need. childhood without food is unimaginable. get fed up. call us now or visit getfedupnow.org today. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ hey, man. nice pace! clearly, you're a safe driver. you could save hundreds for safe driving with liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need! [sfx: limu squawks] whoo! we gotta go again. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ i screwed up. only pay for what you need. mhm. i got us t-mobile home internet. now cell phone users have priority over us. and your marriage survived that? you can almost feel the drag when people walk by with their phones. oh i can't hear you... you're froze-- ladies, please! you put it on airplane mode when you pass our house. i was trying to work. we're workin' it too. yeah! work it girl! woo! i want to hear you say it out loud.

well, i could switch us to xfinity. those smiles. that's why i do what i do. that and the paycheck.

red sox fans have longed to hear it. the boston red sox are world champions. here's the 0-1. this is going to be a tough play. he makes the play! it's over! >> lemire, you know, it's the funniest thing, lemire. and i mean this, i don't remember a single pitch from the 2004 world series. i had to see the drew barrymore movie. >> what? >> "fever pitch" with jimmy fallon. remember that? for me, the season ended, of course, yankee stadium. >> okay. >> it ended at yankee stadium when johnny damon hit the grand slam. we all reacted differently. i think barnicle teared up. >> i did, too. >> i started screaming attian

yankees. >> i was there in the upper deck, the very last row. my brother and i were there, looked at each other for shock and disbelief, feared for our lives, surrounded by byian by yankees fans, and we screamed. >> we didn't get you? >> it was perfect when it happened. >> architect of the two most winning teams and the 2007 red sox, theo epstein. after a storied career as general manager and president of baseball operations, he's a consultant. just like mike barnicle is a consultant for "morning joe" and keeps us on the air every day. >> every day. >> joe, don't do this today. joe, don't do that. >> of course, our sports reporter is here. >> richard haass. >> golf correspondent. >> just golf. >> mike, let me start with you. you've been through a few of these. what does opening day at fenway mean to you?

>> oh, you know, it means -- actually, it's the start of the year. we have new year's day, but opening day is the real start of the year. it's like you go back to your summer home. summer house in fenway park. it's box 29 for me. you see people you haven't ian all winter. you get to watch the beginnings of the greatest game ever, ever created, major league baseball. baseball, specifically, is just a wonderful game, a wonderful sport. it is wonderful being at the park. i've looked forward to it for far to long, every year. and every year, i say, this is the year. >> a lot of people saying that. >> i'm going to cry. >> this is the year for today, anyway. theo, the wonderful game that's gotten more wonderful because of the rules changes. we didn't know what to expect. how is the pitch clock going to work? does it make sense? will there be pushback? 2:29, sub-3-hour games.

in the past, you had a 4-hour game, kids tune out, you have to go to bed. you're a consultant to the mlb. has it been as good as it appears to have been in spring training? >> we tested these extensively over 8,000 games in the minor leagues the last couple years. the entire effort was an attempt to give fans more of what they like and less of what they don't like. we did extensive outreach to fans for years. what they told us was they agree with mike and all of us, greatest game in the world, but they want to see more action. they want to see an improved pace, see the ball in play more. their favorite plays are stolen bases, doubles, triples, great defensive plays. least favorite things are dead time. mound visits, pitching changes, things like that. rules were designed to move us a little closer to the best version of baseball, giving fans more of what they like.

it's accomplished it. the pitch timer doesn't change the game, it just creates and brings back this great rhythm and flow that we were all used to growing up. >> right. >> even old, crusty scouts and old school baseball people who wanted nothing to do with a timer anywhere near the field, after watching a few games, calling me, "this is the greatest thing." >> that's the reaction? >> yeah. >> the game we wait for, the series we love so much, the yankees/redsox, greatest ever, but also the longest games, all over 4 hours. nightmares. >> you watch the sunday nighter, always on espn. starts at 8:00. you're sitting there with your 10-year-old son. 10:00 and they're in the fourth quarter. >> not close, yeah. >> what's the reception from the players? old school guys say, i don't like the idea. what are you hearing after spring training? >> players have been great. their attitude, really open, welcoming and collaborative for

it. for the first time ever, there's a joint competition committee which is responsible for the rules. there were four player representatives. they gave a had the of feedback along the way after the tests in the minor league, helped improve the rules. look, you're never going to please everybody. there's always going to be critics. but, overall, the reception has been incredible. the players also get home half an hour earlier. they don't like dead time either. they've been great. we're going to continue an open dialogue with them, make sure this goes well. >> up over 162 games. that adds up a lot. it's the difference between doing a tv show for 3 hours a day and 4 hours a day. it adds up. >> a lot of mound visits in the show. >> love it. >> the thing about the pitch clock, how the pitch clock was introduced in the preseason, in spring training. it's the first game, like the red sox and the braves.

it ends with, like -- >> the clock off. >> a clock off, right? >> yeah. >> and sent a message to everybody, we're not playing. we don't care if it's the last out of the game or first. we got a clock. you live by it, or you're going to lose by it. >> it does seem like players, theo, are already adjusting for it. let me say thank you, again, for 2004 and everything else. let's talk about the other things already in place. talk to us about the impact you've seen since the banning on shifts, and also a small one, but how bases have grown a bit. is that going to spur for running game, more action? >> absolutely. the bigger bases are designed, again, to give fans more of what they like. stolen bases in the running game. stolen bases are at a generational low. 1.3 per game attempts combined for both teams. fans told us they wanted more of them. i think the bigger bases are good example of what we were trying to accomplish. everyone knows they're set on a 90-foot diamond, a sacred

number. we didn't want to change that. but we could accomplish the same thing, tilting the scales in favor of the base runner, by making the bases bigger. i asked how managers how big a major league base was, and not one knew it was 15 inches square. we changed it to 18 inches square. shortens the distance by 4.5 inches between first and second. bang-bang plays, runners out at first, now you're safe. we have seen a 50% increase in spring training in stolen base attempts. success rate from 71% to 78%. it'll give fans more of what they like. the ban in the shift is really about putting the players in the center of the action. you asked how players are receiving the rule changes. they love the ban on the shift. it improves the in-play environment for hitters. batting average on bats and plays is up to .320 in spring training. more balls getting through, more action. also, we want our players to be

in the middle of the action. we don't want games to be decided by whether the front office has the perfect algorithm. a hard hit ball goes right to the fielder standing in short right field. we want the game to be decided by whether your second baseman is quick enough, has enough instincts, reads the play right, goes on a full sprint, dives, makes the play, throws. the game is about the players and for the fans. the rule changes take in the aggregate, putting the players in the middle of the action and give fans more of what they want. two minutes past the top of the hour. we're talking opening day with theo epstein, mike barnicle, and our golf correspondent richard haass. we'll get to the news in a moment. >> we'll have questions for ya. mike, we talk about the rule changes. breakup the tradition. i have to say, one of the things that really is irritating to me as someone who has been following baseball for half a century, is you have a batter that gets up, has a perfect hit.

like, he hits the ball like you were taught when you're 7, 8, 9. hit a screamer over the shortstop, over second base, right? find the gaps. he hits it hard, and suddenly, there's a second baseman 30 yards out in right field that catches the ball. it ends up, might have been a lazy fly ball. it's what i love about getting rid of the shift. actually, this is a traditional move. i know ted williams had the shift, but it's gotten outrageous. >> theo put his finger on the most important aspect of the rules changes, you have to have your feet on the infield. for fielders, stay on the infield, not the outfield grass. for left-handed hitters, specifically, it'll make an enormous difference, i would think. david ortiz, the number of line drives that he hit to short right field that would have been ordinary base hits, except you have three, four players on the

right side of the infield. he was thrown out at first base. that is going to change drastically for a lot of left-handed hitters and right-handed hitters. theo, my question is the wiggle room in the rules. i was thinking of it the night, the great night we saw rotani versus mike trout. the game on the line in the ninth inning. the pitch clock is out there. i think ohtani, a couple times, went over the amount of time in the pitch clock. will the home plate umpire have wiggle room to say, oh, this is tense, i'm going to let it slide here? >> we're going to see how it plays out. we don't want to detract from the protracted drama that only baseball can deliver in those moments. the umpires are great game managers as well as being the arbiters of the rule. they know when the time is to dust off home plate and create extra time. there is some wiggle room in the rules, especially for the

players. it hasn't been as publicized as some of the other aspects of the rules, but each batter, for example, can call time-out once per plate appearance, to gather his thoughts and, you know, get a little more time. the pitcher as the ability to step off the rubber twice each plate appearance in order to gather himself and, you know, get enough time to do his job the right way. these rules were designed to allow the best players in the world to perform at their best, in a way that makes sense to them. the umpires will enforce the rules, but they know how to manage the game and produce a great product for the fans. >> did you look at any rules and say, this is too far and we don't want to do this? >> minor league was helpful in telling us what works and what doesn't. we used the data, as well. we're trying to cut down on strikeouts. the strikeout rate in the big leagues for an average pitcher is higher than bob gipson's career strikeout rate, for example. the ball is not in play enough.

we're trying to bring that back. we experimented in the atlantic league with moving the mound back by a foot, to give the hitter a little more time to react. we were hoping that would increase the contact. >> speaking of sacred numbers. >> it didn't really work the way we wanted it to. it threw off the hitter's timing. it was a bridge too far. we're going to go back and study that in a lab. that's an example of one that didn't make it all the way up. >> let's talk about the players. shohei ohtani. i'm a yankee fan. aaron judge deserved the mvp. had the offensive season we've maybe never seen before, but shohei, i was going to say once in a generation. he is a once in a century player. to hit and pitch how he has, not just babe ruth. you've been evaluating players your entire professional life. what can you say about what this guy has done in major league baseball? >> never seen anything like it. he's incredible. the phenomenon. and the way he carries himself

off the field, truly loves the game. wants to be a great representative of the game. that's all he cares about. this guy, you wouldn't believe it if it was a hollywood script, like, he hits the ball as hard or harder than anybody else. he can pitch. you know, velocity is higher than anyone in the big leagues or as nasty as anyone in the big league. he's one of the fastest runners in the big leagues. probably one of the fastest home to first times in all of baseball. you couldn't make it up. it's so great for baseball. we had 65 million viewers watching world baseball classic games when he was going up against some of the other best players in the world. yeah, just great for baseball. excited to watch him play. the fact he's doing both at an elite level is just unheard of. brings back memories of babe ruth. >> that last strike, might as well have been a wiffle ball. looked like wiffle ball. >> come on now. >> nobody has ever said that. >> mike, we get to see more

interleague play. how crazy, how exciting, i can't believe i'm excited about anything to do with the new york yankees, but the opening game, the yankees and the giants. >> love it. >> how cool is that? not that the yankees and orioles wouldn't be exciting, but the yankees and the san francisco giants opening at yankee stadium. wow. that's an opening day. >> yeah. yeah, the giants not far from their original home, too. i mean, there are classic franchises. theo has been at two of them, chicago and, of course, the boston red sox. the yankees, giants, los angeles dodgers, st. louis cardinals, classic, classic franchises. it is wonderful to see this game back. it is wonderful these rules have actually given the game back to the fans before it goes back to the players. the fans are going to be the ones who appreciate and enjoy the fruits of these new rules. >> all right. theo, we're going to put you on the spot. you're scouting the teams,

looked at the lineups, knew offseason acquisitions, the injuries. who do you like in both leagues? who are the two best teams. >> i work with major league baseball now, so i'm a fan of all the teams. >> you're a passionate guy. >> i'm making no predictions about the world series. i will predict that if fans invest a little bit of time in major league baseball this year, they're going to see more action than they ever have. >> come on. >> i knew -- >> come on. >> theo. >> those are my predictions. >> who is going to win it all? >> yankees and padres is what i heard. >> exactly. >> subtext. >> mlb consultant theo epstein, thank you very much for coming on and not telling us who you think is going to win. >> thank you so much. we greatly appreciate it. we'll get to the news a little late this morning. a lot to get to, including breaking news overnight out of russia. the russian news agency interfax is reporting that a "wall street journal" reporter has been detained on spying charges.

according to russia's federal security service, evan gershkovich, is, quote, suspected of espionage in the interest of the american government. interfax notes that gershkovich, a u.s. citizen, faces up to 20 years in prison. "the wall street journal" released a statement that vehemently denies the allegation from the fsb and seeks the immediate release of our trusted and dedicated reporter. >> richard. >> here we go again. >> another criminal state. might as well be iran. >> it is also just another message by putin that he doesn't play the game by any rules whatsoever. >> zero. >> there is no order. there's a real menacing threat in this. you know, we also have on our finds what his potential reactions or escalation. it is his way of signaling, i'm not going to play this by any of the rules or norms of

international order. he's an outsider. in history, he is known as a ref revolutionary actor. he doesn't want to do better in this world, he wants to change the basics of the world. >> which separates him from xi and the chinese. >> 100%. >> mike barnicle, they spent the past 50 years doing everything they could to get to a point where they could compete with the united states and move ahead of the united states in this world order. china, china expects to play by the rules. that's what -- of course, they go outside the lines an awful lot, but their success or failure depends on whether this world system stays in tact, this world order stays in tact. vladimir putin is a challenge to that right now. >> well, yeah. richard haass, to joe's point, it is clearly obvious, vladimir putin received president xi in moscow for a three-day festival

of friendship just ten days or so ago. now, the chinese are intent on dominating, not only the pacific rim, but africa in as much as they can dominate. in this occasion, what vladimir putin allowed to happen again, and certainly knew what happened yesterday, the detaining of a "wall street journal" reporter, that just ratchets up the daily danger enormously. he's already provotvoked us wit the belarus moves. the daily danger he has engaged in with planning, methodically, what does that do in terms of china's relationship and potential weariness of where putin is going? >> good question, mike. i don't think it does as much as you or i would like. xi jinping has cast his lot with vladimir putin. their no limits relationship signed before the russians went into ukraine. i think china is maybe not always thrilled with what putin is doing, but i think xi is so

associated now, bringing these two countries into something of a de facto alliance or partnership, it's obviously good for the chinese economy. strategically, it doesn't hurt china that the united states and the west are so bogged down in europe, and our military readiness is being diminished for what he could do if china moved in asia. xi went there. he issued his peace plan. he goes to russia. you don't hear a lot about it. my own sense is the chinese didn't have much, if any, impact on putin. putin just kind of held firm. is i think the chinese essentially are going to see where this takes them. i don't think they're going to move heaven and earth to get putin, for example, to the negotiating table. i just don't see it happening. it reinforces my sense that this war is going to go on for some time. as close as these two leaders might be, wherein as much as they might share certain things, i think, also, there's limits to

chinese influence, even though xi is clearly the senior partner. that's what we've seen in our own relationship. we often can't move people who are weaker than us. the united states and israel. historically, the united states and vietnam or other relationships. just because you're the stronger partner in the relationship doesn't mean you can necessaily move the weaker one. a funny leverage often gets reversed here. >> katty kay, there was some talk that, oh, perhaps, the visit by president xi to russia would move the needle on the war. maybe he could get more. vladimir putin said, yes, i reviewed the plan, thank you for bringing it. since xi left moscow, we saw the tactical moving of weapons to belarus. we've seen the kidnapping of a "wall street journal" journalist on espionage charges. doesn't look like xi's influence was exerted at all in terms of

putin's behavior to the west and ukraine specifically. >> no. taking this "wall street journal" reporter and arresting him on espionage charges when he was reporting where the wagner group does its hiring from, it looks like a standard, classic journalist reporting story. it seems unlikely he would have gone down and been visible if he was spying. that doesn't hold up. he was there on a reporting trip around the war effort and recruiting for the war effort by the wagner group. xi hasn't gone as far as tony blinken and the rest of the white house administration were suggesting a month ago that he might actually be on the verge of giving lethal weapons to russia, and that's a good sign. but he doesn't seem interested in holding russia back or putin back from doing things that he knows are going to antagonize the west further. i guess there is a -- i mean, it'd be a question for richard. what is xi hoping to gain out of

this relationship with russia at the moment? why is he playing this game with putin, when putin looks like he is kind of not doing as well as xi presumably would like him to be doing in ukraine? what more does he get out of this? >> look, i think what you said there is exactly right. this is not what xi jinping bargained for. my guess is when putin came to see him before the invasion of ukraine just over a year ago, putin laid out a scenario. xi probably said, "sounds pretty good to me." signed on. hasn't turned out that way. the problem is, xi is now so associated with russia and so associated with putin and this policy, he can't back off too far. again, if you're a chinese leader, you never want to admit you made a mistake. i think the chinese are trying to get what they can out of it. they're trying to appear to be a peacemaker without really leaning on russia. because, again, i don't think they have the ability to do it. i think they're uncomfortable. i think that they are associated

with them. again, don't mind the long war. it strategically doesn't hurt china. i think what we learned the other day is china can't deliver russia from that. indeed, an interesting thing will be if russia ever does get into real trouble in ukraine, has china made the strategic calculation they can't afford to allow russia to lose? i can see that. then you might have china crossing the line of providing arms. they might send arms to an iran or north korea, and that would -- those arms would be trans-shipped to russia. i think still, strategically, china and xi jinping have thrown in their lot with putin. we have to see how this will play out. >> we'll see how far china is willing to go. this is a country that has reopened after covid. they desperately want the west back in. they want to re-engage. they want the investment. i agree with you, they're going to -- but it is a balance. the balance is, you know, how far do we go before we offend all of our european trading

partners, we offend the united states, we offend, actually, the countries who are still, by far, taken together, the economic giant on the global? we've been talking a lot about china and russia. the question is, if it's a long war like richard thinks it is going to be, where is biden right now? where is the biden administration right now? what's in their head about how long they're willing to stick with ukraine? do you sense we're going to see an acceleration, perhaps f-16s, other weaponry that they wouldn't provide a year ago? >> the administration is saying repeatedly, they're in this for the long haul. they agree, this is going to be a long war. it is a balancing act. they haven't given f-16s yet. other countries have given war planes. there is seance the u.s. will get there, just not yet. they also recognize here that ukraine -- a lot can depend on

the spring counteroffensive ukraine is going to launch. they can show progress here and drive back russia. this is the best chance to do it, u.s. officials believe. they don't think ukraine has the ability to regain crimea. if president zelenskyy, who said publicly that's what he wants, first of all, it's a red line that might provoke putin. even if it doesn't, they don't think ukraine has the ability to do so. therefore, this could really bog down for a very long time. the china piece of this, briefly, yes, there is a sense, u.s. officials, that china wants to weaken the u.s., weaken the west, maybe ahead of something in taiwan. they don't know what comes with putin in moscow. we should watch the president of taiwan transiting through the united states on the way to central america. there is a sense that kevin mccarthy will meet with the taiwanese leader at some point in the coming days. we expect to hear from beijing on that. >> here we are, china may be

thinking russia can't lose. we certainly are thinking, except for the pro-putin caucus in the republican party, the united states of america and europe especially thinking ukraine can't lose. we don't have that option. >> no. >> ukraine cannot lose. let's underline that fact. there is going to have to be a negotiated settlement. we can't allow vladimir putin in 2022, 2023, to get away with invading a sovereign country. >> we cannot and will not allow ukraine to lose. jonathan's scenario, i think, will be interesting. what happens after this fighting season, say we have this conversation in october. >> right. >> roughly, the map of ukraine looks, within a couple of percent, like the current map of ukraine. maybe they gain back a little here or there. what then? >> they're not getting crimea back. >> no. >> they're not getting crimea back. maybe there will be some small gains. for ukraine, for ukraine, the

fact that in post-war, we offer guarantees we were never able to offer before. maybe you're not in nato, but you're in the eu. you're quasi nato. we'll come in with the rest of the west, partners around the world, and we're going to rebuild ukraine. we're going to send a message to putin. an attack against ukraine now is an attack against the united states. you had your war. you've solidified gains in crimea. we're going to rebuild ukraine. stay the heck out. that's a win. that's where we have to end. >> we will end up with a version of that. we'll keep open the possibility that ukraine will get back all of its territory, but it won't be through military liberation. it might have to wait until there is a post-putin leadership. you say russia. do you ever want to be integrated again in europe?

guess what? you can't get out from under sanctions so long as you are on ukrainian territory. that'll be the benchmark. >> what i said about crimea, i know you've heard it. i've heard it all over the west. leaders all across europe and the united state all say it behind closed doors. afraid to say it publicly. >> richard haass, mike barnicle, thank you for being on this morning. >> barnicle, stay on with us. >> interesting, you have the tour players and the liv players back together in the same place. it'll be interesting. >> just like the middle east. the geopolitics. >> it is, actually, like that. >> let them play in majors. >> oh, i didn't know that. still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> i follow it close he. you can tell. >> a tennessee lawmaker said there is no way to prevent mass shootings. our next guest says that is not true.

we'll run through her list of potential solutions. plus, musician sheryl crow is our guest after attending a vigil in nashville last night for the victims of this week's mass shooting. also ahead, an update on the pope's health after he was admitted to the hospital yesterday. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

the first time you made a sale online with godaddy was also the first time you heard of a town named dinosaur, colorado. we just got an order from dinosaur, colorado. start an easy to build, powerful website for free with a partner that always puts you first. start for free at godaddy.com

my mom says that breyers is made with real milk. i think i can hear the mooing. breyers natural vanilla is made with 100% grade a milk and cream. and only sustainably farmed vanilla. better starts with breyers.

whoa. okay. easy does it. we switched to liberty mutual and saved $652. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. with the money we saved, we thought we'd try electric unicycles. whoa! careful, babe! saving was definitely easier. hey babe, i think i got it! it's actually... whooooa! ok, show-off! help! oh! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

what causes a curve down there? is it peyronie's disease? will it get worse? how common is it? who can i talk to? can this be treated? stop typing. start talking to a specialized urologist. because it could be peyronie's disease, or pd. it's a medical condition where there is a curve in the erection, caused by a formation of scar tissue. and an estimated 1 in 10 men may have it. but pd can be treated even without surgery. say goodbye to searching online. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose pd and build a treatment plan with you. visit makeapdplan.com today. anything congress can do too respond to the shootings in nashville? >> speaker mccarthy, why haven't you made a comment on the shooting in nashville? >> what works better than running up to someone in a hallway and putting a phone in

their face, come to the press conference and ask the question. >> i don't know, willie. i kind of -- i don't know, in america, reporters usually ask people questions. most have the dexterity, mentally, to walk and talk at the same time, answer questions. >> chew gum even, all kinds of things. >> poor speaker mccarthy. >> and the questions he was being asked, reporters had the temerity to ask for a response to the massacre of children and schoolteachers in nashville. >> 9-year-old kids. that's his response. >> no comment? >> joining us now, new york's westchester county's mimi roca, and the co-founder of all in together, lauren leader. good morning to you both. mimi, your piece on msnbc.com is titled "representative tim burchett thinks there's no way to prevent mass shootings. he's wrong." you write, quote, on monday, six more people, three children who will never see their 9th birthdays, were murdered at the hands of a shooter armed with

assault style weapons. the shooter was able to legally obtain seven weapons, three used in the attack. according to police, it was calculate and had planned. significantly, as in many other shootings, early reporting showed the shooter showed warning signs to family members ahead of the shooting. according to the nashville chief, the parents felt their child should not own weapons. in addition to well-known and discussed solutions like legislation banning assault weapon, closing loophole on background checks and instituting waiting periods, we must pass lesser known, strong e extreme risk laws, also called red flag laws, at the national and state level, and increase training and awareness of such laws and how they work. will this prevent all lives lost from gun violence? of course not. but this will help stem the tide of horrific shootings, loss of life and the trauma our country is facing from them. mimi, let's talk about red flag

laws. there are convinceal concerns for people who say, what gets you on a red flag list? is it breaking the law? is it an accusation against you? is it a police visit to your home for some incident? how do you define a red flag law? what is the best way to operate them? >> hi, willie. that's a great question. what defines a red flag law, what defines someone as having a risk significant enough to have a firearm temporarily -- these are temporary civil orders, not criminal prosecutions, not a permanent ban on weapons. it is based on behavior, that usually someone close to the person sees, like a parent. i mean, how many times have we seen these mass shootings, and it is a parent who comes out afterwards and says, "yeah, i was worried"? if we don't hear that from a parent, and there was concerning behavior, that's a whole other issue. but we do hear that so much. or someone in a school or a

medical professional who was giving them mental health care, or someone in law enforcement who was called to the person's home to deal with a domestic violence situation. so, there are all sorts of literal, you know, warning signs, red flags. what has to happen, the constitutional protection is that it is a hearing held with a judge. usually, law enforcement goes to the judge, and a judge makes the finding, just like they do in dozens and dozens of different types of proceedings every day. protection order. there are things we have built into our system. we go to a judge, we make a show ing, findings, and say, you know what, we need to take this constitutional right away temporarily. one other thing i want to say,

the trauma that is caused to victims, i mean, losing a life, having someone killed is first and foremost, the worst trauma. what about thinking something would have been done? that's what we're seeing over and over. we're hearing about the red flags after, and that makes the pain for the families and victims so much worse. >> it is almost inevitable in the aftermath of the shootings now. we hear from family members who say, yeah, the person was disturbed. we see social media posts or manifestos that illustrate that point. just to point out, 19 states and washington do have some version of a red flag law, which, of course, leaves 31 states, including the state of tennessee, with nothing like that. in this case, even if the shooter's parents had said something to someone, it's not clear that anything would have happened. is that right? >> exactly. i mean, they don't have a red flag law there. you know, there is federal law that prohibits someone from

buying a firearm, certain kinds of firearms if they have been found or adjudicated to have sort of a mental, quote, defect, right? that's the word of statute. that's a very, very high threshold. that actually is not a reason to get a red flag law. in other words, if you have a red flag law, going in and saying, look, someone has mental health issues is not enough, right? it's based on actual behavior and conduct. >> right. >> not on finding someone to have mental health issues. we look at the conduct. that's why these are such powerful laws, because they react urgently to an urgent situation, to try to stop something horrible from happening. >> mike barnicle, we have talked about how much the republican party has changed over the past 20, 30 years, about every day here for quite some time. we talked about george w. bush yesterday, talking about -- i

think it was yesterday -- and the 25 million lives saved in africa. talking about george w. bush again today, he's a guy who is a texas governor. he was seen as, obviously, very conservative in many aspects of his presidency. but this was george w. bush on gun safety laws 23 years ago in the 2000 campaign. he supported background check. he supported trigger lock. he supported raising the age of buying a shotgun to 21. he supposed an extension of the assault weapons ban. that was a mainstream republican candidate who got elected president two times. >> joe, you can take george w. bush and multiply him by 10,000 public people. the fact is, the truth is, at the end of the day, we are failures as a country, as a culture, as a society. we have failed. we fail our children.

we fail our families. we have just failed everything because of the ocean of guns that are available each and every day on the street. listening to mimi, westchester county, they have strong gun laws in new york, the most frightening call a police officer and his partner get is a domestic disturbance. you never know when you knock on the door, red flag law or not, whether there is an ak-47 inside or a 38 pistol or 9 millimeter. you don't know because the availability of guns. eddie, i'm wondering, you, with your blessed viewpoint, your ability to articulate the difficulties that we face as a culture, what do we need? do we need the voice of god coming down and speaking to us? do we need an eternal voice from upstairs, from anywhere, from heaven, from some place, to say, "get a grip on yourselves,

america"? you're losing your culture. you're losing your minds. >> i wish i knew. i do know we have to decide what kind of world we want to live in. it just seems to me that, in so many ways, i'm not just talking about the fringe right that is so committed to the weapons of war on streets, to the ar-15, i'm talking about those of us who desire society where our kids aren't in danger. it seems to me that it's an 85% issue, 96% issue? we're not fighting for the world we want. we're allowing ourselves to be pushed into living a world where the radical fringe controls how we do this. >> by the way, can i can? >> sure. >> they seem to take control. we always love to say, oh, we've got this problem in america. american culture, americans this, americans -- why don't we call it what it is? it's the radical fringe.

it's the 10%. we'd have universal background check if 90% of americans had their way. there would be a ban on military style weapons if two-thirds of americans had their way, according to polls through the years. >> yeah. >> it's the radical fringe. i just -- you know, you look at voting rights. you look at guns. >> abortion. >> you look at abortion. you look at all of these things. i must say, i've always been a strong believer in the filibuster. always loved the idea that the house is hot, the senate cools things down. no more. it doesn't work. when 6% of americans can allow the continued proliferation of guns without background checks and the killing of children, it's time to get rid of the filibuster. when voting rights can be threatened and -- again,

majority, overwhelming majorities want voting rights protected. the radical minority can hide behind the filibuster and do enough. >> help me understand why the majority isn't fighting like hell. are the midterms rigged? why aren't we having walkouts, joe? i mean, why aren't we fighting against this radical fringe? >> the thing is, i can't win a fight, i'm on the right side of the fight, i call out the other side and make them walk through shame every day. if kids are getting killed in schools and there is a democratic senator that is quietly opposing, you know, background checks or quietly opposing some of these other things, quietly opposing changing the filibuster rules, you know what? you have to confront them with it every day. i'm in the saying -- i'm not

saying yelling or anything like that. but attach your legislation to every single bill. have an amendment. make them vote against protecting children every single time they vote on a bill. >> i think there is another way to see this. look, obviously, we're all frustrated because, on the macro level, we have this incredible tyranny of the minority on all the issues that you've just described. that feels so un-american, right? it's so frustrating that in a democracy which is built on the representation of the people, the people's voices are being overlooked. on the other hand, there is some strength here to build from. as people contacted me, especially lots of moms who have contacted me in the last few days and said, i'm so frustrated. what do i do? there are some, like, windows into possible. you have to look at what every town for gun safety and what moms demand have done. they are two of the most effective citizen advocacy organizations in this country. while we've not managed to make massive changes at the federal level, they have been chipping away at the state level. >> by the way -- >> look at --

>> -- look at what happened in the federal government. ten republicans stepped up. >> yeah. >> we do have to say this. to be fair, give people reason for rational hope. >> yeah. >> i think thisthings have chan sandy hook. things have changed since you uvalde. not enough, but they're starting to move slowly. look at this nra's weakness. look at the fact that gun safety groups, the funding in campaigns skyrocketed. you talk about these organizations. >> yeah. >> there have been some steps forward. >> absolutely. and in the last, you know, four elections, we've seen americans step up on behalf of the values that we've all been talking about, right? that's why trump lost and why republicans did so poorly in the 2022 midterms. there were a range of issues that people rose up against, and abortion was one of them. the country is going in a direction we don't like. but it is going to take, you know, more mobilization. we have an election coming. this needs to be on the ballot.

i know claire said this yesterday. the gun control issues need to be and abortion rights need to be in every single election, in every statehouse, and in every congressional race and every senate race in 2024. that is what is at stake. americans get that. the more we hit on that, the more people are given that choice, it's pretty simple. americans are showing up to advocate on those issues. >> katty kay, i know you have a question for jonathan lemire, but, you know, i just -- hearing lauren talk, it reminds me that some of these states, and tennessee is one of them, they're lurching more radically right on the issue of guns at a time when -- i mean, post uvalde, you have some state legislators wanting to go even further right, with even less gun safety measures. in some states, as claire was saying yesterday, it's just pure insanity. >> yeah.

i mean, a couple years ago, we watched the nra have financial problems and go through the kind of scandals we've spoken about. i think many of us thought that, at that point, their grip on the republican party would be weakened. actually, then what we've seen just recently, is this kind of -- you call it the guns on the republican christmas cards, holding guns and red states moving to be more permissive. the numbers speak for themselves. there are more gun deaths in states with lax gun control laws. there just are. the numbers are there. you know, jonathan, when you look at the white house and you see president biden being so frustrated this week, saying, we have done all of -- all that we can, is it just that the bully pulpit is all that's left for him? is that what we expect for him to carry on, going around the country, speaking about this in the run-up to the 2024 election? is that democrats' only option at this point, just to talk about it, to raise the issue?

>> yeah, it was the frustration from president biden and the exhaustion. they've done pretty much all they can. they have explored executive actions. they're still talking to gun groups. there's possibility that something else could come, like on the margins. they were able to do so a few week ago in the wake of the california mass shootings. there might possibly be -- they know there's not going to be anything legitimate. the bipartisan agreement last year was incremental, modest, but progress. that mattered. going forward, the president's hands are largely tied. there doesn't seem to be any energy on capitol hill for any agreement there. republicans don't even want to have the conversation. we're seeing progress in states, michigan, we keep noting, is one where work has been done. democrats control that, eddie. the nra is weakened. the nra still matters, though. their convention is in a couple weeks. donald trump is going to be there. other presidential candidates will be there. they're going to say all the

things they always say. it's part of the cultural identity of those on the right. maybe it's the fringe right, but still a loud fringe right. anything that is going to break that fever, or is this what we have to live with? >> i don't know if we have to live with it. i don't know what is going to break the fever, but i do know we have to describe the problem. mike was getting at this with his question to me. there is a cultural issue. joe, you talked about it as hyper individualism. whatever is distorting our democratic life. >> right. >> i think there are three elements. one is greed. gun manufacturing industry, the gun lobby, nra. the other is selfishness. i'm so selfish, that i want my gun. i don't care if this weapon of war is killing babies. i'm going to keep my ar-15. then there's indifference. greed, selfishness and indifference. indifference is, this is not going to touch me until it touches me. because we're so damn selfish. so it makes it very difficult to imagine what a notion of the

public good, of the common good, what it would look like. if that's the case, i don't know how democracy survives. >> some of the indifference we heard on capitol hill from congressman burchett, for example, who says, we can't fix it here. throwing up your hands as 9-year-olds are killed in school, it can't be an option for this country. there has to be a better way. mimi, i wanted to ask about what's happening not just in lower manhattan with the potential indictment of former president donald trump, but seems to be happening across the country, which is, you have d.a.s, juries, other people who are looking into prosecuting donald trump being threatened. donald trump out in the open, using racist and anti-semitic insults, but also saying there will be death and destruction if there is an indictment that comes down. direct threats really against alvin bragg, specifically. how do you and the community of d.a.s rally around each other and push back on this? >> look, willie, to me, if we can't agree on this statement,

which is, prosecutors should not have threats and violence against them because of cases they are working on investigating, if we can't agree on that, we can't agree on anything. by "we," i mean, first and foremost, prosecutors. prosecutors who are elected who are democrats, who are republicans, who are independents. it's not just about the person who is being threatened, in this case, d.a. bragg, it's about all the people working in his office who have to live with concern every day that they go to work. that's not fair. those are prosecutors. those are investigators. those are staff members who are giving their life to public service. so you can criticize cases. you can have differences of opinions on cases for sure. there are methods for challenging in court, in the public arena.

can't we agree that's off limits, threatening prosecutors? the prosecutor doesn't have the freedom to at least pursue a valid investigation? >> all right. district attorney for new york east chest chester county, mimi, thank you so much. the co-founder and ceo of all in together, lauren leader, as always, thank you. mike, really quickly, i want to go to you. we talked about the hyper individualization. we heard about it for years. there's a lack of community because of this hyper individualization. there is a lack of common cause. there is a lack of understanding of what kennedy talked about, ask not what your country can do for you but ask what you can do for your country. this idea we're all in it together. there's just a lack of basic understanding about civics in america. we need to reconnect. we need to come back together.

we need to find common cause. we need to start breaking down the walls that cause this culture in this country. >> sadly, and i may be wrong, we no longer know who we are. we no longer know who we were. we no longer recognize what we mean to the world, what we have meant to the world. most importantly, what we mean to ourselves here as a nation. we no longer know our nay bower neighbors. we no longer know the people down if street. we do things remotely. all sorts of things have interfered culturally with us in terms of the mission of finding out and identifying, again, who we are. we are the united states of america. the freest, greatest, most generous nation in the history of the world. we'll remain that, but we just don't know it. >> and we don't know, willie, it's crazy, you have people who used to claim they love america,

now saying how horrible america is. you compare what they say, the trumpists that hate our military, that hate our intel community, that hate colleges, that hate universities, hate all the things that we're actually the best in in the world. then you talk to an immigrant who tells you how incredible the country was. roger bennet, who says when he touches down at jfk, said he can feel the energy. he can feel the hope. he's filled with the belief that he can do anything in america. i compare immigrants to these people, these snowflakes who are peopobertoese snowflakes who are clemente. how sad thatñi it takes imgrant to remind these people how great america is. >> it is the total guidingxd trp

carnagee1 everywhere. a mess. one thing they don't appear to be triggered byw3 sadly is the murder of children incr triggered by other stuff. >> they will go on asking chairman of the joint chiefs about dragw3çói]qtx$ows.t( you don't ask hime1 about russi about ukraine, about china's threat. you ask that question. triggeredñi by that? ñ really is.

it is pathetic.y is. this iss7d why they keep losing @&h(lc% >> price of freedom is kids

♪♪ht!ui] ♪♪jfokñi"nw3ok

wow. that wass7 brian stokes mitchel hi. >> by the way -- >> two camps.

i love your çóñishoes. >> there we go. >> heree1 we go. >> i love it. >> thank you. thank you. >>t( what? not fair. >> i dlñnq >>ok jelly. >> like, this was such a maqjtñ1 øe5qì(lc% so many years in the making. ó how speci had to feel for you and everyonk working withq youfáxd on that s >> it was kind of out ofxd5a bo actually. uxdñr tal,1lg the cast andfáfá creativeé@ team and it was real unusual. we hadn't seen each in three dimensions inñi 25 years most o us. to watcht( everybody on the sho to be able to whil%ñft( rehears and performing to see what 25

years of life and experience and also history of this countryw3 s been through and how we have and we have notxd changed in the mp >> with the backdrop of being reunited. >> yes. >> beautiful. >> in the performance you must be said covid is behind us. thisr whatçó an extraordinary way. >> yeah. i didn't say that until about 20 minutes from the end of the show.

we were going through thelp sam problems and then takes place in theçófr 1902. we were still goingt( through t later i think we hoped that things would be changed. the younger brother says about the presidentt( coming to towned threat of violence and thefá li is there are gunsfá everywhere the very day with the shooting as a matter of fact. i rememberzv hearing that line. another line when coalhouse's woman isxd b(ouq' andñrjfxd kil says this will happene1 again a again and again!u and again.p, and the resonance of the lines, knowing what wee1 knowfá now an

only e9 this world we live in. >> sadly apprv@+%qñ youn

a crowd. >> like to do that, too. >> runppv >>qi]fá exactly. such a wonderful, enspiring thing. >> i don't know if youi] rememb

most people thinking of people in the entertainment world they think of theñiw3 richest, most famous people. >> absolutely not.xd struggle. >> so much. >> so many more than justxd thei few. >> all kindñi of people that backstage. >> incredibleñie1 artists. >> we never see and many if not the majority -- >> most, yeah. >> aokçóe1 paycheck or two from disaster.ñr covid hit i think our industry first. the entertainment community fund

five< ñrlpt( cases? four? polling is showing that most republicans don't think criminal charges should disqualify him for running for president. in the latest quinnipiac surveyed said 38% should notz#31 automatically boot trump from+ the race. most democrats andq independent say it shouldxd disqualify!u tr justxd 23!k of republicans agre with3w that. >> so this is again, this is an example of whatht works in5a trs republicanw3 party does notçó w with thei] rest of america. i'mq trying toçó help. former republicanlp brothers an sisters.

>> losers. losers. how many elections,e1 joe? >> why wouldt( you do it, eddie? >> existential question at the heart of it. >> isçó thise1 a lost cause? i'm serious.wax almost lostt(fá the country.

>> the lost cause isçó ironic because thatfá sensibility defi the nation since the event of the civic war. winners andz( losers. something else is at stake. trump is theñ avatar. they believ dramatically kodisappointed las november's midterms and clinging to the+çó ideas that have been m9ñ some of the hot button issues are guns andñi abortion.

vast majority ofxd americans ar againstok where the republican party is now. there are voices to the contrary butñi it isi] harder to the rig but in michigan. iok have no doubt tzav the republicane1 nominee forfá gove lost

meanwhile, trump has got the perceived?; enemies. decides who's an enemy before they are. in this case it ise1 at( percei enemy and ratcheting up the rhetoric again. >> içó was asked and i took aq little heat for it. who is the biggestqçó threat? china? sir? is it russia? i said,i] no biggestfá threat i

he should know. >>ñru

but now confrontingl investigations he is claiming the government is weaponized against him. that's richlpñr given the past history of howr we quote john kelly talking about how trump obsessed about this issue and talked about it constn>+1e

january< .xd jack smith has successful to get peoplexd subpoenaed to testify. how would what trump's views play into the ideañi of intent d provingçó intent around january? >> i'mjf not exactly sure.t( i think that they're using to use the people around him, jack smith is, to understandñi not oy whats7 he was trying to do and viewxdc government and thought should work for him. i think aw3 theme from theok ai isñi he thought i'm donald trum. people should do what i say. and i think that differentç peoplei] havelpçó talkedxd abou mind-s[4÷ and what thatlp means

the criy that there was essentially nothing wrong withçóñit( what he on with regard to the attempts to have kerry prosecuted. it shows a defiance and such a view that he thinks basically it shoqf be one way for him and one way for everyone else. >> all i]right. >> qdq

investigations into donald trump. there's at least four that we know of. the one in new york seems to the one in new york seems to have paused at least fwrkq! moment. butq jack smith seemingly winsr every day to defeat the claims of executive privilege andfá getting the seniorlp aides and e vice president to likely testify. give us a sense of whatñr to lo for next. >> ixdfá think this is going to on for quite sometime. lininge1 up people around trump and dealt( with the league issu around it. while it feelslp like it is gaining momentum this stuff as5 we have seen takes at( lot long than people onq either sided wantñr it to. this will drag into?; the sprin where you have different witnesses, questions, assertions of why they cannot answer

questions and have to answer legally by a judge and the back and forth in which the guysxd g in and folks are going in to testify and having somec sense f i think'c asñi we see in new yo and in generalt( in the pace of the investigationsxd these thin takexd enormous amount of time. onc the bragg thing itr like it was hitting momentum and now paused for at ,qstxd sos÷ days or weeks. i think that these things always they go much slower th people would like. >> ie1 think trump -- he knew that. washington correspondent forçóe "new york times," michael schmidt. thank you. >> thank you. katty kay, you talk about a presidentçó using the justice

department or trying to use the justice qdepartment, theq most shocking exa-(#q is two weeks before the presidential election donald trump pressuring his attorney general to arrestñr hi political opponent ahead of him in the polls. that is straight out ofçó hunga or russia or china. it is w3outrageous. >>q yeah. you do see this.lpçó it is anq explanation for why trump did haveñi a fascination with autocratic rulers in his presidential term. i don't know. maybe he hadn't read about it. >> no, he had not. >> he came in andñi thought tha he had thet( powers and refers my generals,'c my justice department, my attorney general peak about butt( that's a pn

andñ3[you canxd see the frustra and the lack of understanding about the american presidency. !lp canw3 change this. trump has been açó bully in the business life and the political campaign in 2016.ñi i think he thought that he could bend theñyó machinery of americ government tonb hisz] will. he didn'té@ manage to.çó the guardrailsçó with stood tha >> youc study this guyq more th anybody. wrote a boozó about january 6ths presidency,xd of madisonian democracy. like, you could say it was a willful ignorance. not really.

t@mát didn't understand the hisy or care. when people tried to tell him, you know, when rex tillerson called him -- >> moron. >> a blanking moron.ok that was afterñr they just gave himqq a history of the world fr 1945 to thei] world. not t!t 5lju)ájjz w'3fpñr the7ñ just gave him history of 4 worldqñi since e11945 andxd erupted. that's when ñitillerson was lik

he tried to bend the federal governmentfá to his whims.xdfá he was not that successful. but sure didn't stop him from ñi trying. >> oh yeah. last week new j6á)h @&h(lc% congressman ont( c

>> the others. >> ownedq byñi china?c >> no. >> bowman isi=$tu)jt some support from colleagues.ñi and that's the new reportingñrx from sahile1 kapur who joins us now. >> we'll see a scramble on capitol hill.,zaa y%m%=9m about forward on whatxd to do about tiktok. whether to ban it or protect it. youxdñiw3 saw an ñiunusual spat josh hawley whot(xd asked for unanimous consent to banxd tikt and then met by rand paul says senate should notxd ban tiktok. he said that freedomfá can surve

a dancefá video. among democrats there's unusual divisions play out. i seel:ó three differentñi camp emerge. those on the left withe2rxd jam bowman. he wasw3çó joinedq byxd aoc. >> the solution is not to ban an individual company butko protec americans from this data harvesting that companies can do without your significant ability to say no. >> also among democrats you see another a campqu

concerns, present concerns about data privacy and then democrats thatt( say this is a national security t(threat, needs to be< banned. i talked to senator warner just recently yester what bills do they move and is it too late once they try?

>> thank you very much for the reporting this morning. >> you know, eddie, there's a hugeñr difference. we're not payingjf toñi faceboo. h%% >> yes. >> but we try to apply pressure and otherok pressure. maybe facebooke1 becomesxd a ber company and the corporation and the decisions made by mark ñ15 right? you can't compare thq. to tiktok where the decisions are ultimately made by the chinese government. people that are trying to -- mehta, facebook, and youtube togetherlp with tiktok, it is jt apples and oranges. it isi] capitalists andq communists. you can't compare the two. >> i think that's right but i think about the vine1çó diagramt gray area of overlap.

if you drive in a tesla musk is harvesting. we getq-rxdt( harvesting. facebook. ( this really about axdi] -- iv simplyfá aboutçó national secur? of course it is.i] lso about who wins the game of harvesting)káñ?; data a the ai run? tiktok 150 million. more information thanxd musk wi tesla. i think that shadyqñr area -- >> they definitely are an issue. again, how do we manage our own corporations int(çó america ver china? i will agree with you completely onfáq that front.rm> we will be following this. hundreds gathered atw3 a vil

laste1 night in nashville to pa tribute to the victims of this week'sv in addition to hereçó onçó msnbu canxdc stream "morning joe" livn peacock or listenok to the showcast wherexd you get theñi podcasts and for more on the top that orders fresh beans for you. oh, genius! for more breakthroughs like that... ...i need a breakthrough card...

like ours! with 2.5% cash back on purchases of $5,000 or more... plus unlimited 2% cash back on all other purchases! and with greater spending potential, sam can keep making smart ideas... ...a brilliant reality! the new ink business premier card from chase for business. make more of what's yours. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ hey, man. nice pace! clearly, you're a safe driver. you could save hundreds for safe driving with liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need! [sfx: limu squawks] whoo! we gotta go again. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ we must finally hold social media companies accountable. it's time to pass bipartisan legislation to stop big tech from collecting personal data on our kids and teenagers online. ban targeted advertising to children.

i think i'm ready for this. and teenagers online. heck ya! with e*trade you're ready for anything. marriage. kids. college. kids moving back in after college. ♪ finally we can eat. ♪ you know you make me wanna...♪ and then we looked around and said, wait a minute, this isn't even our stroller! (laughing) you live with your parents, but you own a house in the metaverse? mhm. cool...i don't get it. here's to getting financially ready for anything! and here's to being single and ready to mingle. who's ready to cha-cha?! ♪ yeah, yeah ♪

♪♪ >>. welcome back tot( "morning joe." time to look at the opinionxd pages. lynne1 schmidt said it is too le to challenge trump. trumpi] has enough voters, contl of the state parties, has a significant influence overw3 th national partyxd and his oppones have done too littleñi to distinguishó[ themselves frome1 trump. thelpokçóxd+ resentments that t voters have is foolish. my neighbor çóreplaced the flag with a newq trump flag. >> fly it high,c friend. >> biden sucks. he like other republican base voters still love trump.qc the time to wish him out is

gone. this is me. they have missed a window. the window is unfortunately no.r the crazy moments. +5 toexd to toe withlp donald trum? the answer is no. it doesn't seem like it. >> the republicans have>v missea window. >> spot on.e1 something we have been saying for a long time. let's see who else gets ini] an him on directly. ron desantis is probably the best guy to do that. there's nothingr knowxd about the modern republin party and donald trumpq for eigt years that say it is dynamic will change. if he@!jnxd lead an attempted cp against the united states and get awayxd with it and sayçó 75 the party hew3 should still run for president. what changese1 theq dynamic? if staging anlp attempt coup

against the government and attack on the capitol doesn'tr change how people [ about him or ron desantis is going to. >> this is march. still march. super early polls but forq eigh years. notñrxd from a new batch of candidates. he's led in presidentialfá< fá primaries for eight years.xd it justt( doesn't -- "the t(pos had a story about probablye1 republicans in d.c. looking aroundq atñra5ñrñpp&ternatives around the fall people get never vous in way and people get afá # maybelp nikki haley or chris christie if heçó gets in. >> slay5a upton. we love sports analogieslp here. i am loathep, to compareq donal

trump to anybodyzfw+orablyi] bu this is mike tyson ase1 heavyweightn

>>ñi i think they think they ca say i don't kick sideways. >> figureq that çóout. >> notxd to be t(t(strong. people want strength. saying things like that,q sayin, look,xd a convict choir is wron. it is t(sick. it is an insultt( to thee1 democracy. iiuld never do that. i don't understand what'sxd goi on there. >>i] the question asked t(yeste, what would republicans do ifçó bernie sanders last campaign? went around thee1 country with convict choir and thexd mittens >> what would republicans say? okay! i'm not going to do it again.

this is the convict choir. they willçó sing with a song. i will pledge allegiance to convicts. what would l%áu!licans say? >> yeah.i] i suspect that bernie sanders would hawgone around saying he loved the kids or the supporterq did. mittens or no mittens. the only counterlp argumente1 i that there are glimmers of i think there are possibilities for desantis. he's got to show that he has aa backbone tocñi take ond ä"0p'gelicalt( voters are not

lookingq at trump the same way. they got the supreme court and t they got roe overturned. i thinkt( thero$a window there. >> do you get thatxdñixd sense? >> i love myw3 kids and votexdç me. >> iok went to mike pence eventt bob jonesñi university. evangelical school. they loved vice president pence. it wouldxbamazing to have a republican candidate like that? will you voj%÷ for donald trump? m u$e sanctity( lif >> içó ask you, joe. the mike tysonxd analogy.qjf outplayçót( him.jf i think desantis has a window. go tot( the debate tage against donald trump.i]

how didñh$=9

[ ominous music playing ] here we go! level up your speed. mario! yea! [ screaming ] introducing the xfinity 10g network. super fast internet today. with even faster speeds tomorrow. woo-hoo! there'sñi more evidence tha ì(lc% claims wereçó wrong. a judge ordered slides presented

by dominion lawyers to be made public. the votingok machine company is suingw3 the network for defamation.xd the slides show internal communicationsw09 testimony at fox includingñi messages from t foxe1 brain room which was responsible for fact checks at the network. one communication from the brain room ten days after the 2020j>i% election says claims about dominion switching or deletingt votes 100% false. another message reapvthe facts, there is no evidence of widespread fraud in the 2020 election. (u revelation from fox news ceo complaining about acporter fact checking claims from then president trump. >> it was a massive dump ofñie1

votes. mostly biden. almost all biden.qñi up to this day everybody'sq trying to figure?;out where did it come qr >> a massive dump of votes but election officiawhat he t(impli. just votes counted properly asx the lawht requires. >> now after that aired scottlp wrote this has to stop now. this is bad business. theht audience isxdçó furioubad business. this is not about fact check jg% the issue atfá(9 is one hostwsñ ue) q), theñiñiqxd spokesperson. also an exchange between the staff of a prime time showq act my pillow0l ceoq mike lindelli]

is still pushñi election claims. he is au there is a concern but heçófá!u bailed usfá out loadsu is he going to say on the air? fox released a statement about the slides. the documentsjf demonstrate dominion relianuq on cherry pickedxd quotes without context forxd headlines to distract fro the facts of the case. the networks will advocate for the first amendment to protect the role of news organizations

to covertq news. >> may have t$ he can flyy1i]xd from new york delaware. in the case in london, do you

we had seen it happen in q2013 with libelt( suits split off fo news tottry to protectxdt( fox. if murdoch is done by theok dominion suit and fox is foundt culpable on thelp reporting of 2020 and charges and fines against them wouldñr that impac murdoch in theñi uk? and that could have a widerlbv impact on the world the latest on the school shooting in nashville and calls

jz in the wake of thaté( massacre.u that's just ahead on "morning joe." yrizi is just 4 doses a year after two starter doses. skyrizi attaches to and reduces a source of excess inflammation that can lead to skin and joint symptoms. with skyrizi, 90% clearer skin and less joint pain is possible. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine, or plan to. with skyrizi, there's nothing like the feeling of improving my skin and joints... ...and that means everything. now's the time to talk to your doctor about how skyrizi can help treat your psoriatic arthritis- so you can get going. learn how abbvie can help you save. we must finally hold social media companies accountable.

it's time to pass bipartisan legislation to stop big tech from collecting personal data on our kids and teenagers online. ban targeted advertising to children. - this is our premium platinum coverage map and this is consumer cellular's map. see the difference? - no... i don't see the difference, do you? - well, that one's purple. - exactly! that's our premium. - what does that mean? - i think it means it costs more. - for the same coverage? - that's what makes it premium! - that doesn't make sense, does it? - no... but it is premium! - i'd just go with consumer cellular. - thank you! - (whispering) they're the same. - [announcer] get the exact same coverage as the nation's leading carrier. starting at $20. consumer cellular. so, you're 45. that's the perfect age to see some old friends,

explore new worlds, and to start screening for colon cancer. yep. with colon cancer rising in adults under 50, the american cancer society recommends starting to screen earlier, at age 45. i'm cologuard, a noninvasive way to screen at home, on your schedule. and i find 92% of colon cancers. i'm for people 45+ at average risk for colon cancer, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider if cologuard is right for you. ♪♪ allergies don't have to be scary. (screaming) defeat allergy headaches fast with new flonase headache and allergy relief! two pills relieve allergy headache pain? and the congestion that causes it! flonase headache and allergy relief. psst! psst! all good!

♪♪r welcomew3 back. ourw3 next guest took on the biggest challenge of her career when the covid-19 pandemic hit.d as executive vice president and chief corporate affairs officer atñr pfizer sally wasçó tasked winning the hearts andi] minds people around the world to accept the concept of a new vaccine reallyfá quickly.lp pfizer's public outreach contributed to u contributed to the vaccination. in her new book "breaking through" sally shares how her company managed the massive communications challenge that

came with covid-19 and how she was able to break through the noise to get her company's message out effectively. she joins us now. i love the book. i read it all, as you know, because we did the pod. i want to start with your last chapter, just because it fits into the show that we have today. the final chapter is called "why is everyone so angry." seek harmony is one of your tips to breaking through. talk to me about that chapter and where we are today and that advice. >> thank you for having me. listening to your show or looking at the recent polling data, we see how deeply divided the world is. so i end my book with a chapter on seeking harmony, because i think we have to stop arguing to win every point and create a condition where we can have a civil conversation, a way to connect with each other and to keep the thought in mind that

maybe the other person has a valid point of view. >> another one of your really important leadership advice for the readers here. you say disarm with humility. to the point you were just making, empower the truth as well delight with humor, which i think especially women struggle sometimes just to fill the room with words and not give things time to have their moment and let topics breathe, because we want to get to the goal so badly. in a way, we forget to have fun and to be present in the moment. so delight with humor is an important piece of advice. also kind of hard if you're not relaxed. >> it's true. the book is a communications book, but also a leadership book. in my experience working with nine ceos and many elected

officials, i believe we need to connect the dots between communications and strong leadership. it's a difference maker for people. we need to understand that communications is not a soft skill. it's a rock hard competency. all of the things you're saying people need to do are so important to enjoy the moment, to pause, to not rush, to listen. >> it's very in this sync with the know your value message. you say channel your message is an important leadership skill. spell it out for us. >> it's a pause between any communications, whether an e-mail to your kids or a phone call with your parents or a major speech or an opportunity to be here with you this morning. i think it's tremendously important to stop, breathe, think and say this is what i want to achieve, this is why i'm here, this is why i'm talking. >> how did that play out in the

pandemic when in a rush, like the biggest rush the world has seen or a company has seen in the middle of a pandemic, how does that apply to trying to send a message that the vaccine is safe and all of you need to take it? >> i tried to be very intentional about the way in which we communicated and worked during the pandemic, because not only did pfizer have a scientific revolution, we also had a reputational opportunity to reintroduce ourselves, to explain why our work matters, to be purposeful, transparent and candid in everything that we did. i think that's why pfizer's brand went from a lagging reputation brand to a top ten global brand. >> you say perfect your pitch. did that happen along the way during the pandemic? >> we tried. we used phrases like science will win, the only enemy is the virus. we tried to really hit the high

notes that are so important. >> the second piece of advice on the list, muster the courage for candor. that advice applies to you personally and professionally in terms of your career. i don't know where you want to go with this. >> anywhere you want. >> i love how you used candor in your interview for this job with the ceo of pfizer. i mean, one of the biggest companies in the world, most powerful ceos and you're sitting there and it's almost the first question. it was just supposed to be a conversation piece, but you went there. >> when asked early in an interview what does my husband do, i took the moment to realize i needed to be candid, i needed to be authentic. i shared as warmly and graciously as i could that, in fact, i have a wonderful spouse. she is a great source of support to me in my career and that i wanted to be open about who i

am. that has served me well in my career. i'm very grateful to have had the chance to be courageous and candid on that point. >> i love that story. really quickly, explain the concept of why you're making sure that you continue to work in russia when a lot of companies pulled out? >> we are maintaining our commitment to not earn a penny of profit in russia and to donate every penny that we make to relief causes in ukraine. i think it's important for companies to take a stand. you see that increasingly. navigating your way through to a set of values that you communicate in the world is just so important. >> the new book is entitled "breaking through, communicating to open minds, move hearts and change the world." sally susman, good to see you and great to have you on the show. for more, check out my podcast series at mika straight up

dotcom or know your value dotcom. coming up, we are following breaking news out of kentucky following the overnight crash of two u.s. black hawk helicopters during a military training mission. also ahead, the latest from nashville where a candlelight vigil was held in honor of the victims of monday's school shooting. sheryl crow performed and she joins us next. d she joins us next. der bowser's cont. [ screaming ] hang on, luigi. [ ominous music playing ] [ screaming ] yes! fire! [ chuckling ]

choosing a treatment for your chronic migraine - 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more - can be overwhelming. so, ask your doctor about botox®. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they even start. it's the #1 prescribed branded chronic migraine treatment. so far, more than 5 million botox® treatments have been given to over eight hundred and fifty thousand chronic migraine patients. effects of botox® may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. don't receive botox® if there's a skin infection. tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects.

in a survey, 92% of current users said they wish they'd talked to their doctor and started botox® sooner. so, ask your doctor if botox® is right for you. learn how abbvie could help you save on botox®. the new chase ink business premier card is made for people like sam who make...? ...everyday products... ...designed smarter. like a smart coffee grinder - that orders fresh beans for you. oh, genius! for more breakthroughs like that... ...i need a breakthrough card... like ours! with 2.5% cash back on purchases of $5,000 or more... plus unlimited 2% cash back on all other purchases! and with greater spending potential, sam can keep making smart ideas... ...a brilliant reality! the new ink business premier card from chase for business. make more of what's yours.

people remember ads with a catchy song. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's a little number you'll never forget. ♪ customize and save. ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ (psst psst) ahhhh... with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary spraying flonase daily gives you long-lasting, non-drowsy relief. (psst psst) flonase. all good.

and i made farmers happy and rich again and they're doing a fantastic job. and you know what? some day it will become time for them leave this beautiful earth and be able to leave their farm without taxes to their children.

i got rid of the death tax on farms so that when you do pass away, on the assumption that you love your children, you can leave it to them and they won't have to pay tax. but if you don't love your children so much -- and there are some people that don't -- and maybe deservedly so, it won't matter, because frankly, you don't have to leave them anything. thank you very much. have fun. >> i think he meant have fun not leaving them anything, like he is? i don't know. >> that's one of his general signoffs for years. >> if you don't love your kids -- >> on st. patrick's day. we've got to bring in jen psaki because she's the expert in communications. >> she probably can translate what's going on here. >> i can try. >> that was hating on kids and

the signoff to the farmers of iowa. hey, if you hate your kids, you don't have to leave them anything. thank you very much. have fun. is that projection or confession? >> i think he showed his heart there, maybe spoke to his own personal experience. hard to know, joe. he started off with lines and sentences that you thought, okay, that's a message that makes sense to iowa voters. if you want to protect your family farm and pass on what you've worked so hard for for generations, i want to help you do that. then he went flying off a cliff about not having to give to your kids. i don't know how people digest that. started off good, a little crazy at the end. >> then the clips like ron desant desanktty moan yous.

>> he's been crushed in the polls, all of them. many globalists are having second thoughts. rinos are beside themselves. they don't know what's going on. they've rarely witnessed a cratering of this magnitude. these polls are going down rapidly. maybe they should have told ron that trying to destroy social security and medicare and having voted to destroy them three times is not a good thing to do. also, his record on china virus, crime and education is despite his ever spinning pr machine absolutely abysmal. ron desanctimonious may soon be falling behind young vivek.

he wanted to raise the age to at least 70 and he fought very hard to do it. he also has strong plans to cut medicare. >> it's so boring. why is it so dark? >> i haven't seen such dark lighting since like dark shadows in 1968. and that weird side angle. >> willie nailed it. >> it's not good. >> nobody likes the neck fat. i don't know why he chooses that. >> he has that crazy side jaw too. it's so confusing. yet this guy is going up in the polls among republicans. not among general voters. they're doing this very weird

thing, which is republicans are going off a cliff with a guy who the majority of americans think committed a crime, the majority of americans, 57% i think it is, say it will impact their vote if he's indicted. >> that's true. many of these people have stuck with him not just for the last few months and come back over the last few months, but stuck with him for years through multiple impeachments and multiple investigations that have been launched. i what i heard there in that creepy presentation is him trying to throw spaghetti up against the wall to take desantis down. he sees blood in the water clearly. he attacked him and he also did on truth social from about ten different angles that don't necessarily fit together and aren't necessarily factual, but he sees weakness and trump is going to go after the weakness.

the question in the republican primary is if it's not desantis, who is it? is it nikki haley, mike pence, chris christie? it's not really clear. for trump, that's the best case scenario. >> remember, this is exactly the strategy in 2016. who's the front runner? jeb bush. i'm going to vaporize him first, give him a name. he's low energy jeb. he finds the strongest candidate and goes after them first to try to get them out of the way. >> as comical as a lot of his behavior has been been, i think he is desensitizing the public to the concept of him being arrested so if and when it finally happens, there are those that are going to line up in the polling that, well, he could still be president, it's just a

misdemeanor. it's vintage trump what's happening right now. >> alvin bragg says i'm not going to do it on your timeline. in fact, we're going to let the jury take off until 2027. or at least a couple weeks. >> that was interesting. why? >> bragg is not going to let him -- he whipped everybody into a frenzy. >> maybe he's waiting for something else to pop first. >> calling more witnesses. who knows? you're right, alvin bragg is not on indictment watch. he's running an investigation. if that means re-interviewing people and bringing in other witnesses, he can do it. >> we'll continue politics in just a moment. we want to turn now to the latest from nashville, where the first vigil for the six victims of monday's deadly school shooting was held yesterday. katie beck has the latest.

♪ what the world needs now is love, sweet love ♪ >> reporter: at nashville's public square, an emotional tribute to the six victims of monday's mass shooting at the covenant school. dr. jill biden among the mourners at the candlelight vigil. the first lady laid flowers at a memorial outside the school where monday a shooter blasted through locked doors using a high-powered rifle, killing three adults and three children before dying in an encounter with police. now police sifting through the writings that 28-year-old killer audrey hale left behind. it's possible the shooter had weapons training, but others never knew hale to be violent or angry. this art teacher taught hale in 2017, saying the student showed signs of emotional stress, crying once in class over a

locked computer. >> for the last year, the only thing she's posted on facebook has been statuses about her grieving and how much pain she has been in. the nature of what she was posting seemed like it was a former romantic partner. there's no forgiving what she did, but she obviously was not in her right mental state for a long time. >> reporter: community leaders are praising staff at the school, who they say protected students and kept them calm during the attack. jason hoffman says he jumped out of his vehicle to help stop traffic. >> i saw fear. i saw these kids were screaming, they were crying. >> reporter: all of it as a growing call for change now stretches from nashville to washington, where a renewed push for gun control legislation led to this heated exchange. >> they won't do anything to save the lives of our children.

[indiscernible] >> nbc's katie beck with that report. joining us now, sheryl crow. she performed at yesterday's candlelight vigil in nashville honoring the victims. here's a bit more of that. ♪♪ ♪ what the world needs now is love, sweet love ♪ >> also with us, cofounder and ceo of the sandy hook promise action fund mark barden. good to have you both. sheryl, tell us about the vigil last night and how the community is coping. >> i'll be honest with you. it's really difficult for me to

even speak about this, because i'm a mom. i'm raising two boys. we live right down the street from covenant. my kids go to a school very near there. i've asked them permission to speak out on behalf of all moms. we've had some really difficult conversations about what the world looks like now. i mean, my kids have a running joke that i was born in the 1870s. but, yes, i remember a time when going to school was not stressful. the only thing you worried about is whether you were wearing the same thing every other kid was wearing. this isn't normal. i definitely am not here to talk about gun control. i do agree with heidi campbell, who i think is very articulate and outspoken about the fact that where someone dies by a bullet, there was a gun involved. my kids who are 12 and 15, you know, they asked me after it happened on the way to school

what would have happened if this were the situation, what would have happened if this were the situation. they're questions that are not anything a kid should ever be asking. in this case, this is one of the reasons i wanted to bring mark on the show with me, because i love what sandy hook promise does, which is it empowers our children at a time when we aren't talking about taking guns, at least we're not talking about taking military grade weaponry out of the hands of every american or any american. what we're doing is talking about how to enable our kids to have some power in a situation where they are powerless. and that's what i want to talk about until we're talking about solutions. these are things that can be put

into every school in america that save us from having to arm our teachers and arm our security people. honestly, when we're at a point where we're arming teachers, we're going to lose a lot of great potential teachers who don't want to be in that situation. that's one of the reasons that i'm speaking out. i asked my kids, would you be comfortable with me going on and talking about this? this is for me not a second amendment conversation. this is about what is something we can be doing to help our kids not be helpless. >> mark, i know how difficult it is every time there's a shooting, particularly a school shooting to feel that trauma come back again and think about your wonderful son daniel, who died just over a decade ago at sandy hook. you've been working on this issue as an activist ever since then. just to piggyback off what

sheryl was just saying, what are some of the things that can still be done to make our schools safer? >> that's right. i'll just start with my heart goes out to these families who are now on this indescribably painful journey. i'm here for them in any way i can be at any time. i think sheryl said it succinctly and accurately, that we need to empower our students and teachers and parents and communities now before it becomes a tragedy. we know that people who are at risk of hurting themselves or others almost always show warning signs first. every one of those warning signs represents an opportunity for somebody who is trained how to know those signs to intervene and get that person the help they need before it becomes a tragedy. that's what we do at sandy hook promise. we have a model that works.

we don't charge for it. we've already prevented 14 school shootings that were imminent and planned. >> sheryl, you're sometimes a lonely voice in nashville. i have friends, lifelong republicans that live there who say over the past five years things have just gotten crazy. they go into crystal and their people are carrying long rifles with them. it seems that in an age where we're seeing more and more kids slaughtered in schools, we're actually seeing more and more radical legislation being passed in states like tennessee. i don't quite understand.

you say you're not talking about the second amendment. i'm a gun owner. i've been a gun owner for a long time. >> you can have guns. it's just how to make them safe. >> i agree. i'll be honest with you. i really struggled with yesterday, because i am predictable. i'm predictable. i'm a person who shows up to fight for the freedoms of the disenfranchised. i don't think it's fair to legislate people's inability to gather peacefully, whether it be on the street where a school is. and i don't believe i should lose my freedom to send my kid to a school safely so that you

can own military grade weapons. i'm not going to say we need to come in and take guns. what i'm saying is we have opportunities that everybody -- i guarantee you the statistic of moms and dads in tennessee want there to be sensible legislation. they want the red flag laws. they want background checks. they want there to be a time limit for somebody to go into seven different gun outlets and buy these weapons in one day. they want these things. i'll be honest with you. i had a conversation with a legislator last night at this rally and i went up to her and said, is there some common ground? and what i heard was, we're excited about the leftover covid money going into fortifying our schools, making them safer. i said, how about that covid

money going to not arming more people, but perhaps let's look at the programs where we give a child the opportunity on a phone to anonymously have a hotline that goes to someone who is trained in their school where they can say i heard someone talking, i saw on their feed they're talking about wanting to hurt people, they're talking about wanting to hurt themselves, training our people how to deal with -- unless we're going to put up red flag laws, training our children to have an anonymous voice to be the eyes and the ears. and this is what sandy hook does. they give a voice to our children. my child who's about to be 16 is asking me what do i do.

i mean, i picked him up and started crying. he's looking at me, what's wrong? i don't want to have these conversations with you. and mark can speak to this. why are we having these conversations? until these conversations change, we need to at least give our children the ability to have a voice in this. that's all. i don't want to talk to the legislators of tennessee if they don't want to represent what we are asking for. i think we can look at how much money goes into the pockets of our politicians from the nra and other huge corporations that fund the laws they want or don't

want to see. what it's creating to me is an imbalance in mental health not only in our children, but in the parents who feel like this is a conversation about patriotism. it is not a conversation about patriotism. we're not talking about coming and getting guns. we're talking about let's talk about how we are going to keep our children safe in the one place they should be safe, which is at school. >> powerful words, sheryl. mark, there's been such frustration looking at washington for leadership here, republicans silent. there does seem to be some progress in some state level. i know your organization works at state level. talk to us about how your group can spur that on in other state houses. >> the states have long been the

vanguard of change at the community level. our policy team at sandy hook promise is incredible. they have written and passed policy with bipartisan support both at the state and the federal level. the stop school violence act in 2018, we wrote that and passed that. that applies to states and schools and districts to apply for grant funding to bring intervention programs into those schools. there's a lot of policy related work that can be done at the state and federal level. we bring in policy around the safe students act and stand up act and helping bring in mental health training and suicide prevention and awareness training. we don't charge for that. that money has to come from

somewhere. that's thanks to the generosity of donors and folks like sheryl and policy that helps us do that work. there are so many opportunities that we can empower our students and teachers and parents now before a tragedy happens so they know how to recognize warning signs and they can connect somebody to help through the anonymous reporting program. we've trained 18.5 million students and adults in our programs across the country. they do take it seriously. they understand the power and value that it gives them to be able to look out for one another. in addition to preventing bad things from happening, we're also building a more positive, more connected, more compassionate culture of students who are communicating with one another, who are

saying, hey, maybe we should have a conversation, maybe you should talk to a trusted adult, or maybe i'll send a tip in to the crisis center and they can connect you with whatever resources or they can report on themselves. weave republican prevented hundreds of suicides by students checking in on each other or with themselves in the anonymous reporting system. there's so much we can do ahead of this. these tragedies are not inevitable. they are preventible. >> i don't know if most school districts know that program is available to any school district. mark barden, i'm sorry we have to have this conversation again with you, but we appreciate your leadership on this issue. and sheryl crow, thanks so much for being here. joining us now the chief of pediatric neurosurgery in

nashville, dr. jay wellens. he was in the emergency room monday waiting for victims of the shooting to arrive. doctor, thank you for being with us this morning. you've written and spoken quite a bit about what you've seen in the emergency rooms, what the ar-15 does to the human body and the difference between an adult and a child. to the extent you can describe it on television, what does it do? >> i'm grateful to you all for shining a light on this issue. it's one of substance and it's profound. you mentioned that i was in the emergency room. i was one of 30, just one member of a team. i got a text some time between

10:00 and 11:00, about six or seven texts in a row, one from a team already down there says mass casualty, report to the e.r. i quickly got a phone call from the chief of staff who said this is not a drill, this is real. we practice for this, just like all hospitals do. trauma is a real thing. we take care of a lot of injuries to children from car accidents and all types of issues in both rural and urban states. the reality is that we go to the e.r. and we're ready. you watch that video of the go policemen who ran towards the fire and they did their job. it gives you such a sense of pride as a doctor and as a parent. that's that same sense of what all of our health care providers

here want to do. we want to save those kids. you know, the issue with assault weapons is twofold. it's the gun and the bullet. what i mean by that is the gun is large capacity, it's high velocity and low recoil. that means you have a lot of bullets that move very fast and when you don't have a lot of recoil there's no kick, so to speak. you can pump a lot of bullets without it moving off target. those bullets are moving fast. when they hit tissue, they move through the softer tissue and do what's called kavation. they hit the body and they fragment.

the entrance wound is small, but the exit wound is giant. you can imagine what that does to a lung, because that's the biggest body mass. children and teaches aren't wearing body armor, so the lung and the chest is the place that's going to get injured and that's going to cause a great deal of damage. there are a lot of blood vessels from the area. we can't show pictures of this. it's awful. people say that a picture is worth a thousand words. so the decision was to try to use a thousand words to paint a picture and get a sense of how we can't do anything. when these children are killed

at the scene, i just feel for our paramedics and firemen. they're in that bucket line too. first it's the teachers that act and then it's the police that act and then it's the paramedics, then it's the hospital. it's this long bucket line of getting these children to help. if they die at the scene because of this injury that happens, then we can't do what we're trained to do. >> thank you so much. >> dr. jay wellens thank you very much for being here. we greatly appreciate it. jen psaki, it's so tragic. we talked about president biden's frustration at not getting anything done. also another story breaking right now this morning has to do with russia getting a "wall street journal" reporter. i'm curious, what are some of the options for the biden white

house? >> well, this story as you mentioned just breaking this morning and it sounds like this reporter who was taken into custody by russian authorities, something that hasn't happened for some time there. there have been a lot of reporters operating in russia. this is a scenario where if you're sitting in the state department which is typically on the front lines of these negotiations, you are figuring out how to engage with russian counterparts either through the embassy or different channels the united states still engages with russia. you're trying to figure out how to bring this guy home. the challenge here is we saw what happened with britney griner and others who have been detained by russian authorities unfairly. they sometimes make these individuals to be symbols and they use ail sorts of propaganda

and talking about what they may or may not have done, which all of it is bologna and it puts us in a scenario where the united states has to negotiate and potentially do a prisoner swap. my bet is that the state department says very little today and same with the white house. that's typically the protocol when you're trying to have back channel conversations. >> thank you very much for coming on the show. we'll see you sunday. >> it's like live aid versus the beatles on ed sullivan. >> we get to do a third show. if people keep watching, maybe a fourth. >> they will.

thanks, jen. coming up, we explain why passengers flying out of new york will soon have fewer options. >> oh good. also ahead -- >> i'm flying out of la guardia. i see harrison ford. >> coming up, yellowstone, which was the most watched show on tv last year. next was 1883, the first prequel that explained the origins of the dutton family. and then there was 1923 where we met a generation of duttons tasked with defending their land during the great depression. up next, a preview of season 2. 2

with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary. spray flonase sensimist daily for non-drowsy, long lasting relief in a scent-free, gentle mist. (psst psst) flonase. all good. avoiding triggers but can't keep migraines away? qulipta® can help prevent migraines. you can't always prevent what's going on outside... that's why qulipta® helps what's going on inside. qulipta® gets right to work. in a 3-month study, qulipta® significantly reduced monthly migraine days and the majority of people reduced them by 50 to 100%. qulipta® blocks cgrp a protein believed to be a cause of migraines. qulipta® is a preventive treatment for episodic migraine. most common side effects are nausea, constipation, and tiredness. learn how abbvie could help you save on qulipta®. - double check that. nausea, constipation, and tiredness. eh, pretty good! (whistles) yeek. not cryin', are ya? let's tighten that. (fabric ripping) ooh. - wait, wh- wh- what was that? - huh? what, that? no, don't worry about that. here we go. - asking the right question can greatly impact your future. - are, are you qualified to do this? - what? - especially when it comes to your finances. - yeehaw! - do you have a question? - are you a certified financial planner™? - yes. i'm a cfp® professional.

- cfp® professionals are committed to acting in your best interest. that's why it's gotta be a cfp®. find your cfp® professional at letsmakeaplan.org. give your small business one tech solution that checks all the boxes. it's all here with the comcast business complete connectivity solution.

peace of mind with cyberthreat security. the power of the largest, fastest reliable network. plus, save up to 75% a year with comcast business mobile. the complete connectivity solution. from the company powered by the next generation 10g network. get started for just $49 a month. and ask about an $800 prepaid card. comcast business. powering possibilities™.

. let me ask you something. >> ask away. >> i've been giving it a lot of thought. alexander is just too long, just in general. >> you don't like my name? >> it's beautiful. just if i need to yell at you or something. >> why would you need to yell at me? >> like in your direction or there's a lion or something. >> just say lion. >> i was just hoping i could call you alex. >> you can call me alex. >> there you go. >> i love this show. with oscar season in the rear-view mirror, hollywood is turning its attention to emmys and one series expected to be a major player is "1923," set in the yellowstone universe. it follows the dutton family on their montana ranch as they

navigate an era rocked by a pandemic, an historic drought and the repeal of prohibition. the first season wrapped up last month. before the finale even aired, the smash hit was already renewed for a second season. >> boom. >> when are we going to see it? joining us now with the answer, one of the breakout stars of "1923" julia schlaepfer. good to have you on. >> thank you for having me. good morning. >> congratulations. >> thank you so much. >> we talk about you and spencer on the show. >> we're a little frustrated. >> we weren't happy. >> you do it well. >> i didn't want to get on the boat either. it looked rickety.

i was like, i don't want to get on that boat. there's no way. >> we need him home. >> i know. i know. we're trying. we're working on it. >> harrison ford, helen mirren, it's just an incredible show. what's it meant to you? >> it's been the most special gift of my entire life working with harrison and helen, who are two people i've looked up to since i was a little girl and wanted to be an actor. the whole cast is incredible. they've been so welcoming and so cool. they treat us like equals. to be a part of the dutton family is pretty cool. it's pretty saw some. >> i love your character. she's a rebel. >> she's feisty. i love her. >> between alex and beth, it's very interesting.

here's the funny thing, though. we saw it and we loved 1923. let's check this out. we saw who plays spencer, who plays alex. i was going like i wonder what college in oxford. oh my god, she's american. then i dug a little deeper. wait! we saw you on the politician. >> yes. >> you could not have played two more opposite characters. >> i'm lucky. they're wildly different. >> fantastic job. >> i want to learn about tabloid camp. it's something we all would love to go to in preparation for this show. >> come on out. come to montana. >> horses and guns and all kinds of stuff. what was that like? >> it was like summer camp for a bunch of adult actors. it was so fun. they drove us out to a ranch every morning super early.

they assigned us all horses. we all looked like idiots pretending how to ride horses. >> did you know how to ride horses? >> i have. i love horses. you think you know how to ride a horse. we're with the best wranglers in the world. you quickly realize you have no idea what you're doing. they did get us there. by the end we were loping around and lassoing and herding cattle by ourselves in fields, which was really cool. >> how did the role come about? >> my parents were huge yellowstone fans. they kept begging me and my brothers to watch. it became a running joke in my family. then i got the audition and they were like you have to watch it now. so i watched it and 1883 of

course and loved it. >> we have another clip from the series where julia, your character, delivers some tragic news to her husband. take a look. >> you need to read it. >> you read it. >> your brother has been killed. by the time you receive this letter. [indiscernible] ♪♪

>> what's the date? >> the date. >> the letter, when was it written? >> everybody watching, their heart drops. then, of course, they're screaming. >> they're already three months late. come on. >> pick it up. >> talk about the relationship.

obviously spencer and alex have really struck a chord with viewers. why do you think it's so special? >> it's a special love story. it's this grand, epic love story that everybody hopes for and wishes for deep down. their connection lasts through all of these trials and tests and they keep choosing each other. i think it's just this really kind of old hollywood grand story. they travel all over the world together. it's just so romantic. it's epic. >> we talk about the cast, harrison ford and helen mirren. here's helen mirren, this goddess, this icon. let's give her her space. no. she was out at the bars with us. >> the first day i set i went to go visit. they were filming in the dutton home.

i show up and i was kind of hiding. i don't want to get in anybody's way. nobody knew who i was because i hadn't started filming. helen sees me and she was like, have you seen the house yet? no, i don't want to get in anybody's way. she's like, this is my house. she showed me all around and treated us like equals. she came out to the bars with us, had some drinks. i bought her a drink one night. that was a highlight for me. they are the most down to earth people. we were in this teeny montana town. we had nothing to do with hang out and go to walmart. >> get sick like i did and binge the whole thing. you can see the entire first season of 1923 right now on paramount plus. thank you so much. it's great to meet you.

>> so great to be here. still ahead, an update on the unrest in israel tied to an overhaul of the nation's judicial system. we'll talk to martin fletcher, who spent nearly four decades at nbc as a foreign correspondent and bureau chief in tel-aviv. we're back in just a moment. telv we're back in just a moment.

new projects means new project managers. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. when you sponsor a job, you immediately get

your shortlist of quality candidates, whose resumes on indeed match your job criteria. visit indeed.com/hire and get started today. staaaaacccceeeyyy! i'm the sizzle in this promposal. and tonight, sparks are gonna fly. kyle? and while romeo over here is trying to look cool, things are about to heat up. uh-oh. darn it, kyle! and if you don't have the right home insurance coverage, you could end up paying for this yourself. sorry mr. sanchez! get allstate, and be better protected from mayhem, like me. that's a hard no.

(vo) in one second, sara (woman) yes (vo) will get a job offer somewhere sunnier. relocating in weeks. (woman) weeks? (vo) yeah, weeks. (woman) gotta sell the house. (vo) don't worry, sell to opendoor, and move on your schedule. (woman) yes! (vo) request a cash offer at opendoor dot com. i brought in ensure max protein, with 30 grams of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. uh... here i'll take that.

ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein, 1 gram of sugar and nutrients for immune health. ♪ we are following breaking news out of kentucky, where a number of casualties are being reported aftertwo u.s. army black hawk helicopters crashed near a training incident last night near ft. campbell. the extent of injuries or the number of those involved has just been released. we're hearing nine dead now in this accident. governor andy fatalities expected, and tragically he's right about that. pope francis is in the hospital this morning for a respiratory infection. he was admitted yesterday after complaining of breathing difficulties. covid-19 has been ruled out.

the vatican says the 86-year-old pontiff rested well overnight and has resumed his work. the pope expected to stay in the hospital for several days. as a result, all of the pope's events have been canceled through friday, not clear yet if he will take part in the vatican's holy week activities, which begin on palm sunday. more protests are expected in israel after massive months' long demonstrations and a general strike forced prime minister benjamin netanyahu to postpone a controversial overhaul of the nation's judicial system. the plan as it currently stands would give the government control over who becomes a jung judge. critics contend the proposal would limit judges' powers. netanyahu agreed to pause the divisive plan until the next session of parliament. joining us now here in studio, award winning journalist martin fletcher. he spent nearly four decades

with us at nbc news. his new book is titled "teachers, the ones i can't forget." and to honor his work, nbc news teamed up with christie's auction house to debut an exhibit that opened just this week. martin, it's so great to see you. welcome back. >> thank you, willie. >> i want to get to the book in just a moment. let's talk about what's happening in a place you covered for so long and so closely and lived for so long in israel. what exactly for our american audience are we seeing in the streets right now, and how extraordinary is it, particularly when you see the military sort of taking the other side of the prime minister here? >> part of the military, part of the police force, the whole country is divided deeply over this proposed changes, which would change the nature of israel. i mean, israel has always held democracy in the middle east. this would limit the democracy in israel. the idea that the simple majority won in parliament can overrule the supreme court on

any question entirely changes the nature of the state. that's what it's all about. >> so martin, surprisingly sharp words exchanged between the white house and prime minister netanyahu in recent days over this. the white house noted with some satisfaction that there was a pause, but they have indicated they're going to be watching carefully, and then netanyahu afterwards suggested they'll be making their own decision no matter the input from any other country, particularly a friend. it was clearly aimed at the united states. so how do you suppose this will potentially strain relations between the two countries, especially if netanyahu goes for this in a couple of months. >> netanyahu has to speak out of both sides of his mouth. he has to project himself as being strong against the united states to his government and supporters. we will not be pushed around to the united states. the message to the united states is don't worry, we're going to pause things. we're going to slow things down. bear with us. israel cannot alienate the united states of america. can had hardly exist without the support of the united states of america. that's the dilemma he finds

himself. he's formed a government that's pushing him in a direction against democracy, against the values that israel was founded under and against the values of the united states and of europe for that matter. he's between a rock and a hard place, and what he's going to do we don't know. it's too early to say, but the demonstrators say we're not going to stop. at the moment, it's on pause until after the passover holidays. it's going to go back to the same place, and there will be the same demonstrations in the street. >> clearly he's been stunned by the size of the demonstrations and the people who have opposed him on this matter. i want to talk about the book, "teachers: the ones i can't forget". >> thank you. >> you have been with us as a story correspondent for so many years as we get to go to you in different places around the world. and you bring these stories to us, often from war zones. in this book you highlight, as you say, the ones you can't forget, some of the people who touched you over the years as you reported on them. tell us about the idea behind

the book, with each story accompanied by a photograph, which is sort of part of a traveling exhibit as well. >> yeah, well, i wanted to write a book -- i always wanted to write a book on these people i met basically on the worst days of their lives. i always joke i'm going to write a book on what i learned, it's going to be a pretty small book. it is a small book, but powerful lessons from extraordinary people i met during the worst days of their lives. i learned a lot from them. what i wanted to do is create images. they're images digitally edited taken from freeze frames, from nbc nightly news and the "today" show. i wanted to take an image that didn't inform, a vocal response from the viewer, that's what i wanted to do. each chapter begins with one of these amazing photographs. >> we're looking at some of these images now as you're speaking. one of the girls you write about

is a little ugandan girl named evelyn. >> 8 years old. her mother and father both died of aids. she's hiv pose and charming, polite, lovely little kid. but what was the window into her soul really for me was her school book. under the name of the school, she wrote school of struggle, and under the name of the class, not math or geography, she wrote class of hope. school of struggle, class of hope. an 8-year-old orphan, hiv positive. how can you forget that? she stayed with me ever since. >> another picture in here is one about a would be suicide bomber whose bomb does not go off in that moment. tell us about that. >> this is a unique image. no one has seen this kind of thing before. it's a unique image of a suicide bomber pulling -- she's pulling at the detonator cord trying to blow herself up in that instant, but the bomb doesn't go off, and she's screaming in frustration

and rage, and this picture was taken by an israeli security camera. i worked on it digitally to create this image, which i think is shocking and powerful, and yet, you know, it's all about understanding who she is. the story i did was not about oh, my god, this is terrible, which it is. it's a story about who is she, how does she get to that place. she had been suffering by burns. her life was saved by israeli doctors. her parents wrote a thank you letter. and her target was the same israeli hospital. >> we have scratched the surface of your career. there's so much in here. great images and the stories behind them. the book is called "teachers: the ones i can't forget." congratulations on the book. >> thank you very much, guys. >> that does it for us this morning. we will see you right back here tomorrow morning. for now garrett haake picks up the coverage after a quick final break.

with less joint pain, stiffness, swelling, and fatigue. and skyrizi is just 4 doses a year after two starter doses. skyrizi attaches to and reduces a source of excess inflammation that can lead to skin and joint symptoms. with skyrizi, 90% clearer skin and less joint pain is possible. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine, or plan to. with skyrizi, there's nothing like the feeling of improving my skin and joints... ...and that means everything. now's the time to talk to your doctor about how skyrizi can help treat your psoriatic arthritis- so you can get going. learn how abbvie can help you save.

big pharma has been unfairly charging people hundreds of dollars, making record profits. not anymore. we capped the cost of insulin at $35 a month for seniors on medicare.

♪♪ alex! mateo, hey how's business? great. you know that loan has really worked wonders. that's what u.s. bank is for. and you're growing in california? -yup, socal, norcal... -monterey? -all day. -a branch in ventura? that's for sure-ah. atms in fresno? fres-yes. encinitas? yes, indeed-us. anaheim? big time. more guacamole? i'm on a roll-ay. how about you? i'm just visiting. u.s. bank. ranked #1 in customer satisfaction with retail banking in california by j.d. power.