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♪ hi, everyone it's 4:00 in the east. we can forget about being on the verge of a generational moment in our country's history because, as we meet this afternoon, we're living it donald trump is now a once indicted, twice impeached, forever disgraced ex president and he's expected to surrender to law enforcement in new york next week. we understand it will happen tuesday. there was some misinformation, confusion this morning trump's attorney told nbc news earlier the office of the manhattan district attorney alvin bragg, who is overseeing this case, wanted trump to turn himself in today that lawyer, joe tacopina

insisted that the secret service needed more time to prepare. our reporting does not support that assertion that he made. sources within the secret service told us that trump's detail could transport trump at a moment's notice. there's a lot of news developing this hour. we're taking you through all of it donald trump is expected to fly into new york monday night he will turn himself in the next morning, tuesday, that's according to the latest from nbc. we're not expected d.a. bragg to unseal the indictment until trump appears in court we can report that according to two sources familiar with the matter it lists 30 counts of document fraud-related charges our legal friends are here to help us understand what that might mean we saw alvin bragg earlier today

walking into the office. mean while, donald trump described seeking to project confidence right now is predictably on the attack, not just targeting alvin bragg, but targeting alvin bragg's wife and other lawyers involved in the c case and interestingly the judge. it should be top of mind for him and us that this is just the beginning. alvin bragg's investigation is only one of four current active investigations into donald trump. it just might be the case that days like this are about to become less historic, less extraordinary. we begin with some of our favorite reporters someone who knows the details better than most of us, suzanne craig is here. andrew wiseman, former senior

member of robert mueller's investigation. plus, charlie sykes is back with us and mike schmidt, "new york times" washington correspondent. lucky for us they're all msnbc contributors suz suzanne, i feel like us trying to understand what's behind the legal moves, you've always warned us it could be bigger than the stormy daniels' payments it seems like it might also have payments to karen mcdougal tell us what you know is in the documents. >> there's been a lot of reporting at the "new york times" it's going to include potential felony counts. doesn't mean it's going to expand beyond the stormy daniels' hush money payment.

it all could be connected, but it could include something to do with karen mcdougal. i always get nervous when i'm on tv and you don't know. i went back and i was looking through michael cohen's first book, reading it and going over it he has this fascinating exchange that he recounts that he had with alan weisselberg when the hush money payment weisselberg said i'm not going to front this. michael cohen said i'll take the home equity loan and i'll do it. they have a conversation about where should they put the invoice. one of the suggestions was let's lay it off at the l.a. golf course weisselberg said do you know anyone who might want to buy a

mar-a-lago membership and we can do it that way there were all these interesting suggestions that go to the falsification. i think we'll see some of that in the indictment. there's a lot of ways you can get money to somebody for example in the case of donald trump you could ask somebody to book a bunch of hotel rooms and not show up and get the money that way this doesn't necessarily lead to -- you can have a falsification of a business record without tax fraud one thing i'll be fascinated by on -- i don't know if it's going to be tuesday, but when the indictment comes out, will it veer into tax fraud? did they falsify the document and then go to the tax man with that i think the irs might be interested in that i would be curious to see if we get a tax crime here as well it's not necessarily going to

happen, but it could happen. >> it's so interesting we've asked this question where has the irs been it comes as we learn that trump is interested in sicking the irs on his political adversaries we did a little bit of this homework as well and looked at what we knew about how and where the plans were hatched to structure the hush money payments two things i want to share this is cohen testifying under oath about trump's role in it. let me play this first >> in 2016, prior to the election, i was contacted by keith davidson, who is the attorney -- was the attorney for ms. clifford, stormy daniels after several rounds of conversations with him about purchasing her life rights for

$130,000 what i did each an every time is go straight into mr. trump's office and discuss the issue with him when it was ultimately determined -- this was days before the election -- that mr. trump was going to pay the $130,000 in the office with me was allen weisselberg, the chief financial officer of the trump organization he acknowledged to allen he was going to pay the $130,000 and that allen and i should figure out how to do it >> i mean, it's been in front of our eyes for a very long time. no one ever refuted trump's role in this. the southern district of new york puts in writing trump is the director of the hush money scheme this isn't in dispute.

i wonder what you make of what lies ahead in terms of -- trump is the master of fogging up the mirror of what we already know to be established facts. >> right, and i keep thinking you can't have it both ways. you can't not know and then saying you're involved in every aspect in the company down to every check that has been signed he's been saying that since he was out of wharton business school and involved in his father's company, saying that he was involved in everything i think that's going to be one thing -- you know, when this happens, he's like i don't know that person. i didn't do that i think this is just catching up with him. >> yeah. it's so interesting. andrew, let me go back and just -- let's spend time in the time capsule in terms of things

that have been established this is trump and cohen. this is a recording and it gets to trump's role in designing the financial structure to paying hush money to women with whom he had affair. >> i need to open up a company for the transfer of all that info regarding our friend david. i'm going to do that right away. >> give it to me. >> i've spoken to allen weisselberg about how to set the whole thing up with funding and it's all the stuff because you never know where that -- >> maybe he gets it -- >> correct i'm all over that. i spoke to allen about it. when it comes to the financing -- >> what financing?

>> i mean, i watched enough mob movies to know that innocent people don't say, quote, pay with cash. what are we entering into if this goes to trial as trump said he plans for it to >> this is one where obviously michael cohen is a difficult witness. he is not your ideal government witness for a host of reasons, including the fact he's still talking and that differentiates him from anybody i've ever dealt with as a cooperating witness. that being said, these are really experienced state prosecutors. they've been in this territory this is their bread and butter doing these kinds of cases this particular case, not that complicated. so this case is going to be -- i

think it was mentioned it's really going to be made on documents and that tape recording is one where there are a number of ways that it could be used. not just for the fact that you have trump on tape saying pay in cash if it was legit, you would be like i'll wire the money or send a check. it makes no sense. the fact that michael cohen was taping it shows that michael cohen is not going to tape record it as somebody who is going to say what are you talking about? i don't know anything about this what are you doing that's not what you hear what you hear is, wait a second, pay in cash? the very fact of the tape recordin

with respect to why there are no tax charges. as you recall in the trump organization charges, i have never seen a state case in an indictment -- they screamed out over and over again that these are federal crimes, not just state crimes when weisselberg pleaded guilty, it was that these were state and federal tax crimes this is suzann's expertise i have never seen the say the so loudly call out that this warrant -- we have seen nothing at the federal level

i do think as we talked about, jack smith has a lot on his plate. this doesn't directly go within -- it would be nice to know what in god's green earth were they doing? what, if anything, are they doing? it really does seem like this is one where they dropped the ball. >> i guess the reason i keep -- let's do joe for 500 let me show you what he is spinning to 25% of the country that's prime to accept the spin from trump side. >> we do know it centers around a common confidentiality agreement signed years ago with stormy daniels, between her attorneys and michael cohen.

the otnly other case that is close is john edwards. it was prosecuted because there was a donor as opposed to personal funds, like here. somehow a state prosecutor, who doesn't have jurisdiction over federal elections, is prosecuting. this was a personal resolution for a personal matter that would have been made irrespective of the campaign >> this is the melania would have been mad defense. it may make sense in their personal life. i wouldn't know. it's not rooted in any reality the differentiator with the edwards case isn't the donor's role, it's the benefit to the campaign i guess this incorporates in a real big word for the trump side to carry some water on the right. that's not why trump wasn't prosecuted as andrew said, the campaign finance case isn't brought for reasons, the most we know about

is it from jeff buerman's book >> they said that joe was to the legal community what donald trump is to the real estate community. >> why >> because he is very similar to donald trump donald trump has long searched for the lawyer that will do what he wants him to do at times, he has found those lawyers. at typimes, people have gone alg with what he wanted. this is someone who really fits the bill there's a very glaring and important story about joe that could give us some idea of how this is going to go forward. six or seven years ago, he represented another person who was very similar to trump, who was impervious to the fact and was under investigation.

that was alex rodriguez, the baseball slugger in the course of that investigation that was done by major league baseball, he didn't just try and defend alex rodriguez. he led a legal team that tried to destroy major league baseball, with alex rodriguez as his client going along with this they paid for protesters to stand outside the stadium. they had private investigators trying to talk to the caddies of the current commissioner from his golf course. they went to really extraordinary lengths to do everything they could to pull the sport down with them obviously, the manhattan d.a.'s investigation is different than a major league baseball investigation. this is not just -- this was not just a defense lawyer trying to defend his client. this was a defense lawyer trying to destroy the organization that

was trying to hold alex rodriguez accountable. >> extrapolate that over what we should be girding ourselves for as he represents donald trump who is already re-posting menacing pictures with images of violence you have lindsey graham with some unbelievably reckless tweets this morning about violence toward law enforcement. what does that portend to have this toxic combustion between joe and donald >> it was the first thing that i thought about. i called someone in baseball who had dealt with this today to sort of just check -- i remember -- you know, it's a really important sort of story that gives us some sense of where this could be headed we have seen trump do obviously extraordinary things with his lawyers and try to get his lawyers to do that but to andrew's point, this will

really be the first time he is in court what will that look like we had some of that with the fight that went on over the documents down in florida with the special master and the judge who initially sided with trump what will donald trump, in court, look like will he continue this type of behavior will the judge have to step in and try and put a gag order in to try and tamp things down? we are headed into a very unexpected and different area where we will see trump -- it's not like impeachment where the republicans then get to go and redirect the narrative back to how they want it it's a whole different ball game >> i want to press on this the door that's been opened here -- i go to dating the idea that any of the lawyers think they will be different, they will be the one that doesn't have to hire a lawyer themselves, they will be the one that trump listens to, they will be the one that gets him out of

trouble is a whole pathology that i think we should probe a little bit no one is going anywhere when we come back, we will have that conversation. plus, we will bring you up to date on the other threads we have only touched on there used to be a time when a criminal indictment would sink a normal politician's presidential candidacy. because it's trump and because it's 2023, that may no longer be the ase, not in trump's republican party we will talk about the party's reaction, the reflexes to this disgraced ex-president later in the show, lightning rods on the far, far right are calling for protests in the streets of my hometown of new york city as security and local officials are bracing for the possibility of violence. a tense and scary situation. just under 24 hours ncsie the news first broke of trump's indictment don't go anywhere. a smart coff- that orders fresh beans for you. oh, genius! for more breakthroughs like that...

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charlie sykes, pick up on mr. tacopina he it is a dicey roll of the dice to have a lawyer like this at a moment that is dicey for the country. but it's so on brand

we moved from the political celebrity circus aspect of this to a court of law, very serious court of law. >> charlie, because of trump there's so many patterns we can reflect back on. judges have not been as daunted by trump's political super powers as members of the senate have been. i think you had a federal judge who was the first to say that donald trump likely committed felonies many of the judges said out loud in courtrooms and in filings that donald trump continues to create a climate where recidivism is a high risk for

insurre insurrectionists it's a place that hasn't been as cowed by trump as other branches of government. >> a lot of his legal tragedies is intimidating judges from taking actions now he's waging this two-front war. his political appeal, which will be to keep throwing red meat to gin up the base is in conflict with the much more sober and restricted message he's going to have to have an it's going to be interesting to see how he finesses that going forward. you made a point at the beginning of the program it's just the beginning, and it is just the beginning it's going to be a long spring and summer with more possibly more indictments coming. you've seen that republicans are

going all in on trump. if they're all in on this indictment, well they bought the ticket for the next one as well. if there's one in georgia, they'll have to say the same thing. this is -- there are things don'we don't know we know the republican party is not going to distance themselves and they're going to spend the next year and a half answering questions about this man and his conduct. there's no way now for them to step back and say, okay, this was terrible what happened in new york, but, boy, we need to keep our powder dry when it comes to jack smith or his attempt to overtake the election in georgia that's been determined over the last 36 hours. >> if you pull that thread, it requires the republicans to do something they're willing and capable of doing and that is

sounding asinine to the voters they'll say there was some clubhouse meeting between prosecutors in new york, fulton county and d.c. and they decided to conspire. it will require them to be pro hush money payments to porn stars, pro insurrection and pro classified documents at mar-a-lago >> you're going to have a republican party that sounds like a trump social media thread i agree with the wisdom that suggests that this probably will boost donald trump's republican primary prospect, that this will be good for trump politically in the short run, but this is a worst case scenario for republicans who have to live with this and will have to repeat these lies. they'll be asked every day about the latest slur that trump puts

out. what about the appeals for violence if there is violence, what will they say about it? if republicans thought they were going to be able to talk about inflation, they basically mortgaged their entire agenda now to going along with what is about to happen with donald trump again. >> andrew, is there any -- i think charlie lays out this tension that hasn't existed for trump where, if he wants the cheeseburger, he can't have the 32-inch wings. we know he doesn't make those calculations at the golf club buffet i know a lot of folks asked you about roger stone who wanted to juice the base, but faced the consequence in court could donald trump face the same consequence and how much running room will a judge give donald

trump? >> i think that's a fascinating question because -- i have a couple thoughts. first, when you think about donald trump and what he was facing in the mueller probe, he was still the president. he had a lot of levers short of violence and the bully pulpit to incite violence. he had the pardon power. he had the ability to fire he had a willing ag to threaten prosecutions and he had a lot of tools at his disposal to obstruct or avoid criminal accountability, not the least of which is a sitting president could not be indicted by the department of justice under its internal policy. not by law, by internal policy he doesn't have this now so he is going to find himself in the same situation as roger stone who parenthetically i was

struck by roger stone's bravado and in court you actually could feel he was, as any defendant could be and would be, really scared he had that look and in court he had none of that puffery and boasting swagger you got the idea that he understood there were criminal consequences well, now donald trump doesn't have an ally in the white house. he doesn't have those levers and that's why you see this call to violence we saw it on january 6th as it was his sinking ship, his last resort you're seeing it now the court does have the power to prevent all of this. he is not free with no

restrictions he'll be a defendant out on bail if he commits a crime, including soliciting, inciting, harassing of anyone, witnesses, jurors, prosecutors, the judge, in the way that roger stone did with respect to the judge overseeing his case, he can find himself not just with restrictions on what he can and cannot say in social media to protect people, he could find himself facing additional charges, if not also back in jail so, he's going to be in a very different situation at a time when he doesn't have a lot of levers, other than this resort to violence. >> suzanne, i want to come back to the sum and substance of what -- we don't know the full body of what was presented to the grand jury, but we know that a lot of the documents tell the

story. this is the full list of people we know were before this grand juror -- kelly ann conway, hope hicks, dylan howard, keith davidson, stormy daniels' lawyer will you match the structural arrangements like the one we heard with michael cohen and donald trump hashing out in trump's office and you look at people who had to come in and tell the truth about what they knew the story is not a stretch when you look at how close to the line -- the bombshell that was your reporting, how close to the line trump -- almost from infancy to the presidency walked

when it came to the law -- way over the line on ethics. in terms of the law, i wonder what you think in terms of how much there was to present to a grand jury in terms of the evidence that would prove these 30 counts of fraud >> it's one of the things you can never say for sure until we see the indictment they're not going to go forward with this case unless they have the building blocks to show not just through witnesses like michael cohen, but through documents. having done investigations like this where we built cases and have shown fraud, you go to things like, if you have them, we had them in some instances, you look at bank records and you hopefully have phone records and you can see the parties talking. you might not know what they're saying, but you can see the

calls. those are important as a baseline that calls were made, but you can match that up with what people are telling you. did they make the call is there a record? then you look for text messages, not just between the principals involved, but also did somebody leave a meeting and did they text their spouse, you're not going to believe what happened at the office today. you look at all that stuff that builds to what we're looking at now being fraud. we went through this in 2018 when we did the story that showed when donald trump inherited hundreds of millions of dollars from his father, he not only -- not only did that happen, we looked at how he enhanced it through tax fraud. we had all those pieces we were able to put together a case because we had so many records. >> i mean, your investigation really is sort of the first investigation and the first

financial documents investigation and the first tax fraud investigation that the pub had the benefit and privilege of seeing inside of i'm sure you gleaned much from it we know you did. suz suzanne, andrew, thank you so much for being so generous with your time. andrew has more legal analysis to share it's now part of, along with mary mccord, part of a new msnbc podcast called "prosecuting donald trump." up next for us, how low can the republican party go? the leader of their party is now indicted on criminal charges the right flank has lined up behind him we'll show you what that looks like and what we have to worry about. much more straight ahead to five-hundred bucks. he just didn't wanna do that. he was proud of the price he was charging. ♪♪ my dad instilled in me,

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we ask the question all the time how low can the trump republican party go? it seems there is no bottom. even though they don't know what they don't know and the criminal charges against the ex president are sealed, they are, as is to be expected, falling in line, united in seeming panic. tucker carlson called trump a demonic force. last night following the

indictment he riled up his viewers by saying, quote, not the best time to give up your ar-15, end quote he said this there's this tweet by senator lindsey graham who on the night of january 6th said he was done with donald trump. remember that? he said i'm done last night -- today he tweeted, quote, how can president trump avoid prosecution in new york on the way to the d.a.'s office on tuesday trump should smash some windows, rob a few shops and punch a cop. he would be released immediately, end quote lindsey graham wrote that. there's also loser kari lake that says, i don't know about you but i've never supported donald trump more than i do now. charlie sykes, this is such horse you know what. they haven't waned to suggest they're now -- what

is the moon when it's getting better waxing and waning. it's horse poop. they were all behind him desantis is down 20 points in most polls the motion they're going to rattle democrats by saying we were going to walk away and now we're not is lunacy, especially from the likes of lindsey graham and kari lake. >> it's fair to say lindsey graham is going through some th things putting out those tweets suggesting that donald trump should behave like antifa or something, i think it's time for an intervention. there's a thread among pro trump and the anti-trump folks on the right that you people are going to make us do this you liberals, you never trumpers, you're responsible for this you're going to make us nominate and support donald trump again as if they have no agency, as if

it's not their votes that will put him back in the nomination yes, the kind of reaction you're seeing is -- i suppose it's predictable at this point. you asked the question of what is the bottom? we have tucker carlson take about ar-15s people need to keep their eye on how far is kevin mccarthy and the house republicans willing to go to use their power to harass and intimidate the jury, the judge and the prosecutor how far will they go to aid and abet donald trump's attempt to obstruct justice it's one thing for them to put out tweets or beats on social media. it's another thing to use the subpoena power of the house of representatives against law enforcement officials. by the way, if they're doing it in new york, they'll do it in

georgia and with jack smith as well >> we have the host of nbc's "politics nation." you know this better than any of us part of the reason trump does it is because so far it has worked. >> absolutely it has worked and it has been something that he has succeeded in i think that they're going into a level now that is different than before. one, they do not even know what they're fighting we have not seen the indictment unsealed and let me tell you, i know alvin bragg alvin bragg is the same district attorney, same alvin bragg that a year ago would not proceed with the case. the only be proceeding now from the alvin bragg i know is that there has been new evidence, deeper situation that tells him they can win this case and when this is unsealed on tuesday, we may

be talking about stormy daniels and other flings they've already committed themselves to something they don't know they're fighting. how do we know why bragg has not given the information? how do we know there's not insurance fraud and other things involved in this case? we're told it's 30 counts, so this may be a lot more than just michael cohen and stormy daniels and they've already hitched themselves into this shift that might be going down. >> all right there's another story line, rev. we have to sneak in a break and we'll you will be right back

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balanceus.org so back in 1989, donald trump, the citizen took out ads calling for five black and la nina teenagers known as the central park five falsely accused of raping and beating a white woman who was jogging in central park to be put to death. flash forward to yesterday one of those now exonerated men had this to say. for those asking about my statement on the indictment of donald trump who never said sorry for calling for my execution, here it is. car -- >> we stood for them and it was

proven by dna later after one of them did 13 years in jail that they were not the ones who had in fact assaulted and raped this woman in central park. even then donald trump said that the city should not settle with them and that he felt they were guilty this is after dna evidence so even if you could say that he had reason to believe or that he sincerely believed in the beginning they were guilty, once the dna evidence came out he refused to retract and kept advocating for that. the irony of that is that he will be arraigned in the same building they were arraigned in 1989 when some of us stood there and defended those young boys and some of those young men now wilk able to watch the one that wanted them to get the death penalty walk in the same building, have charges read like anyone else in the city of new york it will be a full circle where the justice system can sometimes

take long, but will ultimately catch up >> so your book is called "donald trump versus the united states" and i know a time when it felt provocative. it is donald trump versus new york and as everyone said we may well be heading to donald trump versus fulton county, donald trump versus the united states do you think we're at the beginning of the beginning of something new for him? >> well, i mean, just to take all of the fact that i've only talked about baseball today, let's take it even further, at different points in the trump story as someone covering it you thought, okay, we've sort of come to the en, come to the end, and i wondered constantly, what inning of the trump story are we in. >> what do you think >> if donald trump became president for a second time we would only be maybe in the fourth inning of the trump story. it certainly looks like there's a lot more to go these criminal trials, it's not

like he's going to go on trial this spring. that will drag out you have these two other investigations, three -- i've lost track so, what inning of the trump story are we in? and it just seems like there's a lot more to go >> it feels like the hellish 18-inning games to me. rev, charlie, mike, thank you all so much for being here on an e extraordinary day of news. 50 years from the first time investigators started looking into any of trump's wrongdoing to where we are now with the first ever criminal indictment of the next president taking stock of all of it is where we start the next hour of coverage after a very short break today don't go anywhere. that enable digital innovation and enterprise control, vmware helps you innovate and grow. i remember when i first started flying, and we would experience turbulence.

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>> announcer: you're watching msnbc. this is somebody who has gotten away with pretty much everything for decades now, and he's never faced real accountability for any of it, and, you know, much more serious crimes from his racist rental practice back in the '70s and '80s to all sorts of shenanigans in atlantic city to, of course, the big lie, the insurrection of january 6th and on and on, so i have no doubt in my mind that those quotes are accurate that he is having a very tough time grappling with any of this and he may not actually believe it, unless and uile's getting his mug shot and his

fingerprints taken >> hi again, everyone. it's 5:00 in miami it is a monumental moment we're all living through together right now, an ex-president has been criminally charged, the first time that has happened in our country's history. donald j. trump has been indicted by a grand jury on charges connected to his hush money payment to stormy daniels ahead of the 2016 presidential election as you heard from the ex-president's niece, well, it's a moment that fees surreal to be everybody watching there is likely no one more shocked than donald trump because for half a century donald trump has been getting away with skirting the law "the washington post" reflects on his 50-year playbook. quote, already trump statements about the daniels case have followed a pattern as far back as '73 when federal prosecutors accused trump and his father fred, a prominent new york city apartment developer of turning away black people who wanted to

rent from them in that case trump first denied the allegation then he said he didn't know his actions were legal and then through a lawyer accused of government of conducting a bogus gestapo-like investigation and said he never had any sexual relationship with daniels or that as he told friends privately, daniels was not his type then he said he didn't know daniels had been paid $130,000 to remain silent about their alleged relationship, band then he said perhaps he had known about that payment, but that he never ordered his attorney michael cohen to make it "the new york times" today is reporting that trump's team was caught off guard when the indictment announcement came down and that in recent days trump has appeared significantly disconnected from the severity of his legal woes adding for all of trump's outward confidence, the reality is that he has feared and avoided an indictment for more than four decades

he watched in horror as his former chief financial officer allen weisselberg surrendered to authorities shown on television in 2021. weisselberg is only slightly younger than trump who told aides he couldn't believe what they're doing to that man. trump is expected to appear in court in new york for his arraignment on tuesday, and if all this isn't enough for the disgraced twice impeached now indicted ex-president there are more, many other ongoing criminal investigations looming over him there's fulton county d.a. fani willis' probe and the two investigations led by special counsel jack smith an indictment 50 years in the making is where we begin the hour with some of our favorite reporters and friend, "the new york times" reporter katie is here, bloomberg opinion senior executive editor and trump biographer, tim o'brien joins us, barbara mcquade is back, a u.s. attorney now a law professor at the university of michigan and john heilemann is here host and executive producer

of "the circus" and executive editor of "the recount." k tim, you wrote one of my favorite things. i want to read this from your piece. quote, moments like this remind me of the time trump scened "sunset boulevard" on his private jet 20 years ago you might recall the plot, gloria swanson a faded movie goddess plays thesilent film star outraged about beast eclipsed by the arrival of the talkies in one of the most uncomfortable scenes she lets the world know she has no intention of fading away. those idiot producer, imbeciles, have they forgotten what a star looks like as desmond's resentment played out in front of us trump leaned over my shoulder to offer me guidance, is this an incredible scene or what, he whispered, just incredible.

tim, of all the brilliant analysis that has been written today, that one just struck me as perhaps the best parallel, we'll say. >> well, you know, for all of donald trump's men stations and positioning as a tough guy, at his core he's a drama queen, and he loves being center stage. and he does not like being humiliated, and whatever course alvin bragg's prosecution takes and wherever this case winds up on tuesday morning donald trump is likely to be arraigned, and he is going to be humiliated publicly in some fashion and he dreads that. i think he was horrified watching allen weisselberg get perpwalked and show up in handcuffs. he does not want that for himself and i think we have to remind ourselves that it's a dangerous place for trump to be in

he's been able to weaponize the court system for decades to serve his own purposes he has never really been fully held accountable in a courtroom. and he's now perilously close to all of that in a way that all of the tools that he had in the past using attorney/client privilege to keep people at bay and, you know, wait and see tactics in courtrooms, those are behind him now and i think what he's going to do, he's going to lash out he is not going to want anyone to think, one, that his star has faded and secondarily that he's impotent and i think he is going to act in a way that we've seen bachelorette which is to inincendiary and incite violence and i think he's going to test institutions and he's going to test american citizens' willingness to let institutions, even if they're flawed, particularly legal institutions

go about their work peacefully >> you know, i mean, katie, this seems to be -- or at least we ascribe this as top of mind for the justice department and certainly going through obtaining court approval to search mar-a-lago and the subsequent attack on an fbi field office means it's not just a concern, it's a real threat. what trump incites with attacks on institutions like the one tim was talking about, the justice department, law enforcement, any prosecutor investigating him that said, the facts are not in dispute, frankly, most of them exist on tape somewhere between michael cohen's recordings filings that the justice department under bill barr authority submitted and put in black and white that trump directed and coordinated a hush money scheme to benefit nis 2016 candidacy. what do you make of the very real threat of violence from trump's attacks on these institutions and the very solid

body of evidence leading to this indictment >> i think that donald trump is going to use the silence coming from the prosecutors to his advantage or at least he'll try to so as tim said, to incite violence, to deny that he's done anything wrong we saw this with the mueller investigation. you know, prosecutors are generally bound not to speak of their work so if a defendant wants, they can fill that void with whatever it is they want to say. generally that hasn't happened to the degree it has with donald trump, you know, but he is norm shattering so i don't think he will change course and in filling that void he will not only incite violence which the fbi but the police in new york, they're anticipating, he'll also try to undermine the institutions of the united states so this isn't really a case about donald trump but a case that tests the larger system if he is able to convince americans that he is really being persecuted, that this is wrong, this is political, that has broader ramifications for far longer than however it is

that we see donald trump on the political stage, plus, he has the machine of a political campaign, this is not just a man crying in the wilderness, he has cameras on him and reporters following him because he is an announced candidate for president so he has the levers of what he knows best, the lever of attention which he'll continue to keep on him and try to use >> it's such an amazing image, john, of a man crying in the wilderness you imagine him sort of bumping around mar-a-lago crying in the wilderness there but i take katie's point that he's sort of -- he's in a role that he knows really well. he's back to it and you've covered him as brilliantly as anybody. he's candidate trump again facing adversity and what he will characterize as skeptics and doubters but the problem is, it is a very -- it's where all the heat is in the republican party. it's a smaller chunk of it it's about 25% of the country,

the other problem is the conversation that book ends the week that you and i had about where he launched his campaign in waco. i mean he's playing with bigger tool, sharper weapons, if you will, at a moment when he has sort of successfully both conditioned his supporters to only believe him and not believe facts as they lay out before their eyes and at a point with his own criminality seems to be catching up with him where is your head as this week comes to a close >> well, first of all, happy friday, nicolle. it's -- >> happy friday. yeah >> thinking about yesterday when we got this indictment, there were things that happened in american history where people remember where they were for the rest of their lives. >> i saw that. the tweet you sent out, yeah when john kennedy was killed pang on the moon >> on some level this is not

like that. those were moments that -- pearl harbor, like every american experienced in somewhat the same way. this is a big moment that americans depending on their ideological orientations experience in a totally different way but i do think there are few things to say about it which is important. one is that, you know, donald trump has faced adversity in the past he is no stranger to litigation as tim knows he's never been afraid of litigation most humans don't want to be involved in any lawsuit. don't want to talk to lawyers. don't want to be involved in a civil case let alone a criminal case but really you get these business people for whom litigation is just a cost of doing business it's just a tactic a thing. he's done thousands of lawsuit, right, that he's been involved in but never had this and, you know, that famous mike tyson thing of everybody has a plan until they get hit in the face, charged with a criminal charge, it's just so different than

anything else than you've ever experienced. if you ever had the unfortunate reality of having a pair of handcuffs around your wrist or have ever faced the possibility of incarceration of losing your freedom of movement there's a reason trump has been afraid of that partly because he's flirted with criminality his ole life and known it was out there but because it is the sanction beyond anything else money is just money. time is just time. the possibility of being imprisoned, losing your freedom, losing your freedom of movement is a thing that doster phi almost everyone and certainly it clearly terrifies trump, so the combination of him being finally put in this realm that as he's feared for so long at a moment when to go back to your first point, rattling around mar-a-lago in this kind of state where he's not, you know, maybe who knows? maybe he's worse than richard nixon when he was yelling at the paintings in 1974. it's an unusual -- it's a kind

of pressure he's never faced before he's been unhinged at various times but it feels different and why this moment feels so combustible and you add in one last thing, which is that you know, the first shoe to drop apparently is stormy daniels' stiletto heel that's fallen on his head man, if you look at washington, d.c. and look at those grand jury there and look in georgia, it could be the beginning of the hailstorm of footwear that is going to be falling on trump's head in the coming weeks and knows that and also knows for those grand jurors, it's no longer unthinkable to indict a former president it went from the unthinkable to the thinkable to the fact. it's thousand a thing that has been done, and anybody who sits on the grand jury anywhere else who is worried about, hey, do i want to be first do i want to vote for the first criminal indictment of a former united states president? they never have to think about that anymore now they're thinking about the law. once it's been done the game

changes. >> john, the game has changed as well for him as a candidate. i think what we're seeing him face is the consequences stripped from the way he carried the presidency he made no secrets of, you know it's on us, not him, that he viewed doj as his personal law firm barr was his tacopina and the recent sessions didn't make it because he wasn't tacopinay enough and the idea that he's stripped from all of the protections that the presidency afforded, it should be abu abundantly clear that the only reason he wants to go back is inflate himself from legal exposure how deem do you think that truth can penetrate into sort of where trump supporters live? >> i don't know. i don't know how deeply it can penetrate. we talked about this the other day. we were on earth 3 when we were in waco with trump supporters or

mars, some suborbit tall moon on mars you know, the reality of talking to those folks and hearing them say over and over again that they would never engage in violent protests and you would say, but, you know, on january 6th people just like you did and they would say, to a person, no, no, we would never do that it's antifa and blm and not as bad as people think and it's a conspiracy with the media, it's a conspiracy with the fbi. it is so deeply baked into trump support which, again, we always want to put in context not a majority of americans by far it's maybe not even a majority of republicans, but it's a plurality and it's those people are powerful, politically in the republican party and dangerous if they're incited outside that context and so i don't think there's much chance that they are -- that those people, the hard core trump supporters are going to look up and go, yeah,

you know, trump just wants to run for office, run for re-election so he can try to skirt the law again. i think they are going to believe this is a giant cosmic conspiracy against him, their belief in the deep state will only be magnified and why it's a moment of great kind of trem lousen tremulousness and peril in the land. >> especially those who call new york city home it has security implication, what will happen next week on that we have breaking news on that front from our colleague, nbc news investigative reporter jonathan dietz last now reporting about the tiktok, what we think will happen on tuesday. how we think that will go. we recorded -- reworthed earlier in the broadcast on the fact he will arrive in new york monday night. he will stay in new york 1city monday night at trump tower.

tuesday he will not be handcuffed no holding cell for him. he'll go straight to the 15th floor courtroom where he will be fingerprinted and as of now there is no photo equipment in that room so unclear right now if there will be a mug shot at all. all of it, of course, is subject to change. this is our reporting that we have at this moment in terms of how tuesday is expected to go. bar barbara mcquade, it sounds like some accommodations are being made this is what justice looks like for both people with accommodations given who he is. >> yeah, i don't know this is necessarily giving him breaks because he a former president or accommodating the wishes of the secret service team that is there. >> right, security, right. right. >> for example, if he like most people walked into the courthouse off the steps you can imagine the crowd that will be there from the press to protesters to supporters, his life could be in danger as could the lives of everybody who is

there and so my guess is to avoid that spectacle even if donald trump himself might want it as a way to claim the mantle of victimhood the secret service will overrule that and want to bring him into where they bring in prisoners so the public doesn't see him walking into the courthouse like that and to the extent the public sees him he will be in the courtroom we won't see him walk through the building because of concerns about the safety of a former president as well as everybody else in that building. >> barbara, what are your thoughts this news broke almost exactly 24 hours ago right as we were coming on the air prepared to talk about something else and we were keeping an eye on alvin bragg's investigation and grand jury, but we didn't know john and katie have laid out the landscape, the country, it's a little more battered than it was before he came on the political landscape and i think tim really

brings home just how psychologically impaired trump is as a narcissist who only sees things in terms of his role in everything how does all of that influence what bragg does next >> well, i think that if you're alvin bragg, you have a very difficult job, and the decision he has made so far is one that i think is a very good decision, which is no president is above the law. no person is above the law and when you hear people like donald trump and mike pence and governor desantis saying things like, this is un-american or this is outrageous, they haven't seen seen the charges yet. what they're really saying is it's outrageous that a former president is being treated like everybody else so i think it's really important that we have confirmed for americans that a president is not above the law and should be treated just like anybody else i think that's really important. the other thing i would say about this is, alvin bragg is a

smart prosecutor who is a shrewd prosecutor he won't go forward with a case like this unless he believes every "t" is crossed and every "i" is dotted. i imagine he spent the past 14 months making sure every detail of this evidence was buttoned down putting in more witnesses into the grand jury, reviewing document, making sure everything michael cohen had to say could be corroborated by some other independent evidence and so my guess is as he goes forward he will continue to try to do things by the book to avoid the kind of second-guessing we know will come because donald trump is going to fight this with everything he's got. >> katie benner, we had a lot of great reporting from you and your colleagues about how closely the merrick garland justice department watched the 1/6 select committee, especially public presentation of witnesses and evidence do you have any insight into how closely they've watched the cases in new york city or fulton

county, georgia? >> they're watching this case closely for a couple of practical reasons including just the fact that the federal government might be called in to help quell unrest so, of course, they have to keep their eye on this and then they are looking at what happens with donald trump, how he responds to this and what the charges are it will be horrible if the case wasn't strong. i think barr was correct you wouldn't bring a weak case against somebody like donald trump, somebody with this profile where it's this controversial but i don't think they're looking to alvin bragg to give them permission to act but it's more just needing to monitor situations, practically speaking for the justice department which oversees the fbi is one they may have to intervene in. >> tim, i'm coming back to your piece and just want to ask you one more question. as a candidate, trump loved to cheer the people carrying out violence he said we'll hire you lawyers he made his enthusiasm for what

was happening january 6th clear through the people like pat cipollone who testified and cassidy hutchison who said he won't call them off because he doesn't think they're doing anything wrong at a moment where you think anybody in public life could participate in protecting innocent people, anyone who gets caught up in violence is innocent and they're a victim of that spontaneous violence, what do you think people should be prepared for in terms of trying to imagine the unimaginable in terms of trump's capacity and appetite for people to do things on or in the notion that they're defending him or doing what they think he wants >> well, nicolle, remember after the 2020 election when he lost and i think i was on your show a number of times in the period between that moment and january 6th and there was this questionnaire about what would trump do next? and i think i said at the time that i think he will burn the house down

i don't know what shape that will take. but he's not just going to accept the fact that joe biden defeated him and he would rather see the world around him burn than to tell the public that he's a loser or they didn't get what he wanted that's just how he is built. it's baked into who he is. it comes from this deep well of insecurity and need. and he's willing to sow chaos and dissent. trumpism itself is built on i think essentially weaponizing racism and class resentment in the pursuit of power so he's been toying with this venom for a long time. i think we saw on january 6th his willingness to simply open the gates to physical violence in order to stop a vote being tallied that would mean that he lost an election so here we are now with him going to make an appearance in a

courtroom in manhattan and getting a mug shot taken and it's essentially going to be the first chapter in i think months and months, if not years of legal tarp pits that he will have to slog his way through and he is not going to go gently through any of that. what shape that takes in terms of violence, i don't know. i couldn't have predicted january 6th before it happened but he has posted a photo of himself next to alvin bragg with a baseball bat a marjorie taylor greene tweeted earlier today, we are all going to march up to new york on tuesday. join me essentially was her tweet. so he has very vocal acolytes around him saying let's take to the streets and i think we have to take that literally and prepare ourselves for it and what it means at the end of the day, i think, is what are all of us as average americans and as members of one community that's split by trump going to do to resist those kind of

calls? >> katie benner, tim o'brien, barbara mcquade, no better people to make sense of this, thanks for starting us off john sticks around when we come back, one of the people who has tried to hold the ex-president accountable for his conduct, former lead counsel for the first impeachment of donald trump now congressman dan goldman will be our guest to discuss what news of trump's indictment means for the rule of law in america and later in the program, a call by marjorie taylor greene to protest tuesday as tim was just talking about it trump's arraignment is renewing fears that the indictment of donald trump will lead to violence we'll talk about that. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. with less sugar or no sugar at all. in fact, today, nearly 60% of beverages sold contain zero sugar. different sizes? check. clear calorie labels? just check. with so many options, it's easier than ever to find the balance that's right for you.

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our next guest former lead impeachment counsel and current member of congress dan goldman writes trump's position as a former president and current presidential candidate with his supporters' reactions should not matter we know donald trump does not believe in the rule of law as i helped to demonstrate four years ago. if we are to preserve our democracy, our justice system cannot allow itself to be intimidated when anyone, former president or otherwise, threatens mob violence to undermine the rule of law. we cannot let anyone get away with unduly attacking a prosecutor in an effort to interfere with or obstruct an ongoing criminal prosecution and we cannot pretend that this case or any other can be settled in the political arena. our democratic system of government hinges on our fealty to the rule of law, responsible

elected officials should support that system rather than try to tear it down out of fealty to one man. democratic congressman daniel goldman is our guest and john heilemann is still here. my question for you, we've had a lot of conversations going back to before you were in that body about how when it comes to donald trump, there's almost this igloo or some impermeable bubble around here where republicans in the two impeachments dispute the facts that were presented by impeachment managers in either instance but there was no appetite to do what you write about, protecting the rule of law for any of us as donald trump seems to be increasingly emboldened to do if he got away with the one before. having sat inside both branches,

inside, you know, working in the impeachments, just put the stakes of getting this right into words for us. >> it is very important. it is something that -- whether we say everyone is equal or not, which everyone is under the law, the stakes are higher when you are charging for the very first time a former president. what i am really alarmed by is the rush to judgment and the accusations hurled at a prosecutor by people who have not seen the indictment, who have no idea what is the evidence and that to me is incredibly partisan and it is this weird fealty to donald trump, not only by his cultish followers, but also by house republicans in particular who are now doing the legal bidding for donald trump and trump's lawyer asked them to do it, and

they did it the next day to try to interfere in an ongoing prosecution, and it can't just be that they're afraid of the wrath of donald trump, but i do believe that they see his path and the way that he has emerged as a path to power, and that is everything to this republican party to speaker mccarthy and to the others who are trying to interfere in a state level prosecution. >> it's john heilemann here. one thing we saw in some of the -- particularly in the roger stone case during the mueller investigation was that when roger stone started doing provocative things on social media ultimately the judge shut him down and put severe constraints on what he was able to do in public. i guess my question for you is and we had you on the circus

last week and raised this possibility. when you saw that tweet or that social truth -- whatever that thing is post that trump put up with the baseball bat and bragg, you suggested, hey, they should take that to the judge and either charge him, but if not charge him that should become material if this indictment goes forward. is there a world in which trump could be as he now enters this realm that he's unfamiliar with criminal procedure, is there a world where he could be held accountable for those incendiary and inciting -- those tweets meant to provoke incitement. could he be held accountable and told that he can't use that platform, that he can't speak that way or else he'll face sanctions in court >> absolutely, and it would happen after the arraignment when the judge sets whatever bail conditions. everyone fully expects donald trump to get out on bail or get out on his own recognizance and

the secret service certainly knows where he is but if he continues with that kind of behavior, if he continues to threaten the prosecutor or threaten the judge, the first thing i would expect would be a gag order, which would say that under court order donald trump cannot say anything about the case, the chances of him abiding by that are next to zero, so then it will escalate and the question becomes how many times will he violate a gag order before a judge starts to restrict his liberty in some ways and there are glradual way of ramping that up once under the supervision of a court it's very different than when you are in an impeachment proceeding or when you are under investigation, because there are rules. there are laws, and donald trump is not used to following the norms, the rules, and the law,

but he will have to do so once he is a defendant in a court >> dan, the attacks on alvin bragg coming from house repu republicans are part of a pattern, republicans don't do anything one time in one place, prosecutors are under attack in georgia by republicans there and i wonder what you think or whether there is an effort to push back in the other direction that is national in scope to push back against republicans really taking on prosecutors, deciding that the rule of law is always political in their view and itf the target is donald trump it's always unjust what is the pushback, and has it been organized >> well, this has been a long running theme with donald trump, which is that he more than perhaps any other politician that we've seen in recent history has politicized everything john mentioned the roger stone

case he politicized the roger stone case he politicized the mueller investigation. he politicized the entire department of justice and he weaponized that department for his own benefit. when roger stone made some indications that he had information about donald trump, donald trump immediately gave him a pardon, essentially, and he used his power over the department of justice in a way that no president has ever done before where there is a real divide but his politicization of everything including our military assistance to ukraine, our department of justice, these things that used to be very separate from the political arena has now infected, i think, the entire republican party and that's why everyone is jumping to this notion that this is a partisan prosecution when you have a prosecutor who rejected

his own prosecutor's -- his own line prosecutor's recommendation to indict donald trump a year ago and they lauded him and praised him and talked about how virtuous he was, now a year later when he's deciding to follow the facts and the law to pursue charges against him, they call him the greatest partisan prosecutor ever. well, you can't have it both ways, and that hypocrisy just underscores the fact that there is no basis for this this is the politicization of our criminal justice system and alvin bragg is taking the view that i don't care about whether it's political or not, i am going to do -- follow the facts and the evidence without fear or favor. >> congressman dan goelman, thank you so much for taking some time to talk to us today. we're grateful up next for us, dangerous rhetoric and calls for violence are surging as the twice impeached now indicted ex-president connected to the

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the conspiracy theories and the permission structure is creating for violence two weeks ago trump loyalist marjorie taylor greene said that the ex-president's supporters shouldn't support what was at the time a looming indictment. she said she would not travel to new york but in a complete reversal as has been mentioned greene tweeted to her audience of 6,000 followers on twitter that, in fact, she is going to new york on tuesday to protest what she calls the unconstitutional witch-hunt. marjorie taylor greene's call to protest comes at the same time that pro-trump accounts have been actively peddling conspiracy theories about why trump was indicted it doesn't mention hush money. it talks about this bizarre theory you may not have heard of if you don't spend time down the rabbit hole, george soros is behind it all. made it on to fox news last night thanks to matt gaetz

>> it seems to leave a nation on the edge as we witness the sorosification we will wake up in a different america tomorrow because we can no longer have moral authority against the dictators and despots who would find it easier to jail their political rivals than compete against them in free and fair elections. >> such a joke, it's hard to figure out where to begin dismantling that for accuracy so we'll call in reinforcements joining us is senior reporter ben cull ins, former fbi assistant director of counterinintelligence and msnbc national security analyst frank figluizzi. because i have a reflective itch to correct the record. how george soros figures into this, exaggerated accounts of

alvin bragg overseeing the case and george sore rosao paul gosar wrought bragg was a sorosd.a. although he said he never met bragg nor donated to his campaign mr. soros donated a million dollars to color of change that endorsed mr. bragg threats directed at mr. bragg and mr. soros peppered online discussions of the indictment including claims that people were watching bragg's house and children, appeal for trump supporters to, quote, pick up your rifles, end quote and posts asking when is go time ben, what is going on on the right in america today >> nicolle, i feel like i have deja vu from before the midterms in 2018 because that's when -- >> right >> robert bowers, a lunatic on

gab, that same exact website was posting go how george soros was funding the migrant caravan and it was coming in because of the great replacement theory and replace all the whites and shot up a synagogue in 2018 and then a few days later cesar the megabomber who made these badly made pipe bombs, he sent it to george soros and constantly posted ideas that george soros paid the children off inside of parkland this is a long running experience going on for two decades. recommend emily's book about george soros what he does, he does send around a lot of dark money to a lot of different places for a lot of different things that is a different discussion that is a campaign finance discussion, which i think we should probably have but not this discussion. this is a completely different discussion this is a guy, you know, donald

trump was indicted on real charges that we'll all see together nothing to do with this george soros stuff which has been a dog whistle for the last 0 years. >> frank, you are often our first call when conspiracy theories reach an unstable person or particularly agitated person who shoots up the homes as happened in new mexico this year or who tries to harm speaker pelosi and badly injures her husband, paul pelosi i mean, the problem is it doesn't exist in a vacuum. it exists in a country with plenty of people who see an increasingly vibrant permission structure to act on these violent conspiracies >> you know, this is what the -- what we hear from the far right and gop maga stalwarts is, hey, listen, we can't possibly anticipate the activities and reactions of unstable people to

our rhetoric, we didn't mean it. those people have mental illness, therefore, there's no culpability here the problem is, we can draw straight lines between the people like you just mentioned and ben just mentioned, bad things happen when this kind of dangerous rhetoric and conspiracy therapies are spouted. and the facts, you know, the fact you recited george soros never met alvin bragg. he didn't donate directly to him. they don't want to hear those and for people out there who are prone to violence and incited to violence and, again, we've seen the record of it, this is what happens and what concerns me from a security perspective, you know, in terms of the microcosm of the trial, eventually trial in new york city is not only has -- have these folks lashed out against the d.a. alvin bragg but now today we see lashing out against this judge, again, making stuff up about the judge forcing weisselberg into a deal, judges don't do that we're going to see that and then what the line prosecutors whose names are probably going to be identified on the indictment

when it's unsealed, what about the jurors new york state does not allow fully anonymous juries like the federal system does. what about the risk to the jurors are they going to be lashed out at this is the concern. it's building, building, building >> allig rht, i want to ask you about both those things. we have to sneak in a quick break, john and ben and frank and i will be back on the other side of it don't go anywhere. trelegy for copd. ♪birds flyin' high, you know how i feel.♪ ♪breeze driftin' on by...♪ ♪...you know how i feel.♪ you don't have to take... [coughing] ...copd sitting down. ♪it's a new dawn,...♪

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we're back with ben, frank and john frank, i want to come back to you and the point you were making about the judge and jury. our colleague has reported about the details of that day. it seems that donald trump is being treated with respect but respect is not being reciprocated to alvin bragg's office with the process. what and how quickly could the consequences be for trump? >> i don't think, from what i hear about this judge, that there's going to be much tolerance for anything that sounds like it's inciting violence the problem is enforcing that. even if we see a gag order in terms of not speaking about the case, i'm not confident trump can follow that. a roger stone situation we are into and then potentially the threat of a contempt charge.

i would caution -- i'm sure the lawyers don't have any penetration into trump's head here but i could caution them to -- that anything he is going to say that sounds like it's inciting violence, jack smith -- his worry is not just he gets charged in new york. jack smith is listening. it is potential that it would be admitted into evidence in the eventual federal charges, if there are any, regarding violence on january 6. here is a man who actually still wants to hit the d.a. with a baseball bat or projects an image of that, still calls the d.a. an animal, still says whatever he is going to say. that is potential evidence to mindset and past acts with regard to future charges of inciting violence on january 6 >> we have heard from the insider and donald trump and the insurrectionists who testified

once trump told him to leave, he left it's been established this call and answer from trump to his base >> yeah. it's part of why the stuff from last week and it continues now is so disturbing i keep thinking about soros, him -- trump last week hammering the notion of bragg being a soros-backed animal. you heard the house republicans say it you heard people say it on the ground in waco when i was down there. it's a great -- racist i think about soros. in the world of conspiracy theories -- it's a story ab about -- that man is the focus

for so much unhinged stuff on the right including that a holocaust survivor who helped bring down communism in central europe, that man is a nazi i heard that all weekend last weekend. >> it's insane to ben's point, it sounds like we need more time on this conversation we will make that time next week to all of you, thank you we will be right back. - double check that. eh, pretty good! (whistles) yeek. not cryin', are ya? let's tighten that. (fabric ripping) ooh. - wait, wh- wh- what was that? - huh? what, that? no, don't worry about that. here we go. - asking the right question can greatly impact your future. - are, are you qualified to do this? - what? - especially when it comes to your finances. - yeehaw!

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believe it or not, there's more breaking news a new ruling in the $1.6 billion lawsuit against fox news the judge in this case has shut down fox new's attempt to get dominion's suit thrown out that means the case is set to go to trial two weeks and three days from today. that does it for us during this extraordinary week of news it's march 31,