this really well >> i don't know the content of the case obviously, it's not been unsealed but i have to think that tha is the case, given the stakes. dr. yusef salaam and reveren al sharpton. >> happy tenth anniversary >> thank, you that means a lot me thank you very much that is all in this week and a special edition of the rachel maddow show starts righ now. good evening, rachel maddow. >> good evening, chris happy anniversary. do you feel old? >> - i'm still blushing from th lovely, lovely things he sai about me i think the absolute worldview here you are a model and a role model and a wonderful friend and an incredible broadcaster. and it's fun to be in the ride with you i'll stop. you've got to do your show >> thank you, my friend. i always - it's very important for. meet for me, it's always eas to remember the birthday o chris hayes's show comes right at the same time of year a paul manafort's birthday and the birthday of supreme cour

justice samuel alito - >> and no one else there's no other birthdays o that day >> [laughter thank, you my friend >> thank you >> and thank you at-home for joining us this. our i'm happy to have you here i know it is weird to have m here on a thursday, like i was last night, and now and friday as i am tonight. i know that is unusual but your usual host at thi hour, the great alex wagner, i off on a family vacation thi week great week to choose, alex wagner and because she is a way, yo are stuck with me. i apologize, alex wagner we'll be back next week. but tonight, because you are stuck with me, you are als stuck with this. >> - believe you and i have all received copies of the statement that i read to the court, in open court as i said in that statement, the reason that i have changed my decision to fight thi

matter is because i now believ it would be against th national interest and have a brutalizing effect on my family, that's had a long two-year struggle concerning this matter you also may be aware that wha i said in open court, that i categorically and flatly den the assertions that were mad by the private prosecutors wit regard to their contentions of bribery and extortion on m part i will have nothing more to sa at this point. i will make an address to th nation within a few days >> and so the criminal proceedings against spiro agne have come to a dramatic. and -- that does not mean however tha the spiro agnew case, is over. -- it could be -- against some of spiro agnew' associates but for spiro agnew himself, n for the prosecution. he's already pay the penalty

for what he did. >> no for the prosecution. he has already paid the penalt for what he did. yeah, about that now that we have got a forme president being indicted, ther is a lot of basics about politicians and crimes tha we've all had to sort of quickly re-memorize, right okay, here, a rule that says you can't indict a person if that former person is a former president. there's no rule that says yo can't indict a person if tha person is a candidate fo president. yes, people have run for president while unde indictment before. yes, at least one guy has ru for president while in prison. congratulation, the answer t that question is eugene debs he got 1 million dollars very interesting -- as we enter into this ne chapter in crime in th presidency

but the bottom line of all o it, the main thing i think w need to keep in mind constitutionally in terms of our history in terms of ou american system of governmen and accountability, the bottom line of all of it, for us righ now, is if this new york indictment goes as terribly as it possibly could for former president donald trump - i mean, if he is indicted an it goes to trial and he is convicted and he is then sentenced to prison as a consequence of those convictions, all of those bi ifs after the indictment - even if the worst happens -- it goes to trial, he i convicted, he sends the prison if he goes to prison - even if all of that happens, none of that would affect hi actual eligibility to run fo president again if he so chooses. it is the constitution tha says who is eligible to serv as president and the constitution sets only three criteria one, you need to be a natura born u.s. citizen. number two, you need to have been a resident of the unite

states for at least 14 years and number three, you need t be 35 years old. donald trump is 76 so, he's fine. born in queens, lived here his whole life, no problem there is nothing that even multiple felony conviction might interfere with in term of his eligibility to stan again before the america people as a candidate fo president of the united states and that is just the bear fact of it. so, anybody who tells you that this prosecution in new york i to somehow stop trump from running for president again -- that's horse hockey. it really isn't that and the reason you can tell it is and that is because the reason this prosecution went i badly for him as it possibly could, it would not block hi from running for president but go back to the last time something like this happened it is true that we have neve indicted a former u.s. president before but we did indict a former u.s vice president, who had only been out of office for about two minutes, literally, when h

was indicted in federal cour in 1973. and that case, that spiro agne case, did have some remarkable similarities to the reported charges against mr. trum today. for example, in vice spiro agnew's case they charged hi with taking illicit payments while he was in the whit house. in trump's case, it's believed that the charges against him include him making illicit payments while he was in the white house. and while trump and agnew were both enormously polarizing and aggressive and very hard right politicians, each of which - each of them did some enormous controversial, maybe eve arguably illegal things whil in office. ultimately, what they were bot charged with were things tha were about being venal and petty and they were financia charges, but in a very small change sort of way i mean, trump appears to b facing charges having to d with secret payments he wa trying to hi to an adult fil

star just before the election. as those charges had to do wit secret payments he was takin from business executives because those execs had th contracts with the state o maryland and he was coming off a percentage of those contract for himself in cash in the white house. which is 50 years ago now -- and it is still gross and pett in retrospect. but -- oh, look, here is a check. president trump allegedly wrot it in the oval office to reimburse a guy for paying the adult film star for him, which he then had his business not only cover the terms of, but recording its business records as if it were legal fees so, between what agnew got charged with and what it looks like trump is getting charge with - it's technically different crimes but in basic morality terms, i think it's fair to say it' basically the same kind of thing. i mean, dante would call thi the same basic circle of hail. donald trump went 800 days

after he left the white hous before they charged him. spiro agnew, as i said, wa about two minutes out of the white house before they charge him. but here's the thing when they charged agnew, which was the last time we wen through anything like this as country -- when they charged nixon's vice president for his filthy lucre at the white house white house desk, his alleged crime -- they offered a spiro agnew ple deal in this case, rather than face the dozens of felon charges that had been stacke against, and agnew agreed to the deal and the deal was he woul resign from office and the they would drop almost a whole indictment he was worried about facin trial. he was worried about the numbe of charges he was facing he was worried about the strength of the evidence against him. he was worried he might have t go to prison so, even though he maintaine that he was sure he wa innocent and this was all frame up job and all a witch hunt and a hoax and all th rest of it, prosecutors made i

a condition of the deal they offered him that he would give up elective office and i exchange they would drop almos everything in that indictment. and he signed up for it. he resigned. two minutes later he was in th courtroom pleading and so, yes, there is no eligibility requirement for th presidency or the vice presidency that there' anything about being under indictment or being convicte or even being sentenced to prison there is really nothing in the constitution that says being a accused or convicted crimina is incompatible with the highest office in the land we are a very free country but in the one example we have in our nation's history of doing something remotely lik what we are going through righ now, with former president trump being indicted the one time we did this before with a politician at the white hous level, he took a plea agreement. and his side of the bargain in the plea agreement said, okay, okay i will no longer be an elected official i agree to that.

i am out now, let me escape most of these charges. and yes, you heard spiro agnew there at the top sno proclaiming his innocence. yes, i know i just pled. yes, i know. but i insist i did not commi these crimes i think that sort of thing i to be expected that's got to be seen as par for the course, particularly with politicians like agnew an trump. the history of that moment wit agnew also shows that hi supporters were enraged. and they were really wound u about him being charged. his supporters in congress i his own party said that this would be the end of the rule o law, that with what they did t agnew with this indictment that americans, by the millions, would no longer have any faith in the american system it would confirm peoples worst suspicions about how the syste is rigged -- rigged against guys like spiro agnew. >> there was this belief o capitol hill, where most house and senate members and come to believe the vice president's

assertions that he fully intended to fight the charge all the way. >> we have - confidence and faith in th whole system has bee challenged -- many people -- now to have this confirmatio as the worst suspicion tha some people have held is reall a very profound impact for the whole country. >> i'm just sick of it i think he's a man of his word and i think they've all been doing the same thing, we are ever since last -- just two bad i think he is a great man. >> i think it was very unnecessary. oh, i'm -- i'm very unhappy i don't think it was necessary i think it's a lot of politica hogwash. oh >> i think he's one of the greatest men that this country has ever had >> what is your reaction to th resignation? >> i think it's the -- thing. >> you can see them out ther with the flags on the causeway to mar-a-lago, right >> he said he was innocent he said it was a witch hunt. he attacked the prosecutors on by one

he - attacked them by name. he attacked the prosecutors, who he said were bent on destroying him for purel political reasons. he rallied his supporters to his defense. he said he would not stand for it he said even if he was indicte he would step down and when he was indicted, he stepped down he took a plea deal that force him out of public office but saved him from other serious legal consequences who i facing he still said that there had been a political witch and his supporters were stil shocked and mad. sometimes they could not eve speak, and did not even have the words, they were so upset. and then we got over it. and everyone - i mean everyone -- forgot who spiro agnew's and he went on in his late life to claim that nixon tried to have him murdered nobody even cared about that he also went on to become an antisemite for higher. he got the saudi royal famil to put him on the payroll to denounce jews in the unite states that was his job later in life

former vice president of the united states. you think he might even become famous for something like that but no he ended up totally forgotten. remember, if at all, as a -- and as a whiner about it but mostly, he's not remembere at all and that is because, at the en of the day, the prosecutors wh investigated his crimes, who found the documents, who flipped the witnesses, who got the testimony, who presented i all to the grand jury, who secure the indictment on the felony charges to the vice president, they just put their heads down and they follow the law. they did not get scared. or at least if they did ge scare, they did not get scared off by the intimidation tactic that were absolutely brought t bear against them, by member of the vice presidents party who tried to derail th investigation. and the threats in the hat mail that came against him b the truckload. they were not scared off they just put their heads down they follow the law. they built the case. and they made history.

>> i would hope first that the nation would feel that the process of criminal justice is one that it can trust and have confidence in. i would hope that it would fee that the interests of th nation have been placed firs by all those concerned >> this is elliott richardson, who is the attorney general at the u.s. department of justice at the time this case wa brought against, again, a vice president who is only former vice president by about tw minutes by the time he actuall played in court. elliott richardson was the attorney general at the last time a former president or vic president was indicted in this country. >> i would hope that mos

fundamentally all of us woul have confidence that our syste works. indeed, i think this is th most - aspect that -- has taken place over these months, for all the disclosures, the investigations, th indictment - may have exposed the shodd side of the governmental and political process. but they have also demonstrate that the - political process is - uncovering these things an having the republicans takin proper action. >> - capable of uncovering thes crimes all these disclosures, these investigations, thes indictments, they have expos the shoddy side of the governmental and political process, that we are capable o uncovering these crimes an having uncovered them, our

system is capable of takin proper action. attorney general elliott richardson on tuesday next week, abou 2:15 pm eastern, forme president donald trump is du to be arraigned in crimina court in downtown manhattan at which time we expect the indictment against him to be unsealed that indictment, reportedl includes more than two dozen charges. but who knows? it's under seal. we won't know when it gets unsealed and there's no reason to speculate about it before the. and it's coming soon enough. and while we have had lots and lots of experience indicting crooked politicians of various kinds in this country, literally thousands of politicians have been indicted in this country since our birt as a country - we have not done it very muc for politicians who have bee at the white house level but we did do it 50 years ago. one prosecutors -- tim baker, bonnie's goal mick. they did it in the case of vic

president spiro agnew withou fear or favor, without being intimidated despite what agnew tried to prevail on them despite the upset of agnew's rabid conservative supporters. and in the plea deal that agne agreed to, he's leaving office his resignation was required b doj as the price of him having his charges massively reduced, to the point where all he ha to do is take some probation and pay a fine and what that means for us today is that part of ou historical inheritance here is that if trump is facing, likely, conviction in a criminal penalty that he does not wan to face, it is not impossibl that he could agree to a ple deal that makes him free and ranting and raving no doubt bu also banned from electiv office there's nothing about the lega process that he is involved in now that intrinsically exclude him from public office or from candidacy from public office i the future but the last time we did thi 50 years ago as a country, wha

happened was a plea deal tha included that person leaving public life forever. that's what happened before. that should inform how we thin about what is happening now. joining us now is ro liebermann, former distric attorney for the district of new york -- he was a member of the fearles young team that prosecuted house president spiro agnew an i met him during the productio of my podcast. ron, nice to see you thank you for being here >> i'm happy to be here, rache maddow >> ron, let me just ask you, i i got any of that wrong or i i'm putting any of the emphasi in the wrong place in terms of how you think about both wha you went through and potential parallels here >> no, you've got it right it was a very tense time for the prosecutors. as you mentioned, mr. agne came after us and came after u personally but we were young and we had a

job to do. and we just stopped listenin to that. a prosecutor job is to bring a case that's what we did the one thing that distinguishes, to a degree, th agnew case, and how it was resolved, and one of course wa this fear of going to jail substantial as it was. but the other was, this is the middle of watergate. and richard nixon was not goin to remain president much longer that was very, very clear. and if richard nixon - when richard nixon left and we agnew still vice president, he would then become vice president, he would be cloaked with the immunity that the government policy bestows upon presidents, he would have cloud overhanging him for th remainder of his term. that was his big chip. and he bargained that chip awa to avoid jail. that's what happened it was very contentious.

myself, barney, and timmy, w argued at length with elliot richardson, the attorney general, about treating vice president agnew and everybod else, that he should b indicted, he should stand tria if he wants to, he could defen himself, and if he was convicted he should be sentenced to imprisonment. elliott richardson in th context of watergate, older an wiser than the three of us realized that it was very very important as a policy decision to get agnew away from succession, a heartbeat away from the presidency. that's what brought that cas to a close in addition to agnew knowing that we have built a solid cas against him. it was airtight. and he knew, if he went to trial, he was going to b convicted and he was going t go to jail >> the levity of the charges

the perceived strength of th case, obviously, is the thin that creates the leverage on a defendant in this case, that they don't think you've got great case if they don't think the penalty is goingo too much' less pressure on them to consider any sort of ple agreement. and i think that's one of th big opening questions here nobody has seen the indictment nobody knows the strength of the case against trump including trump. and so that will be, i think one of the important variables that is filled in next week, ron leibman. but it strikes me that there was really one other different that might be operable and important here, which is tha it was a surprise what you all are arranged, that ple agreement that was arrange with spiro agnew the day that he appeared i court in october 1973, nobod knew and told us this in grea detail and it's a better par of the drama nobody knew that agnew is goin to be there in court that da and that he was going to pla in that nobody knew he was going to resign. nobody knew either side of how that plea agreement was goin

to play out in open court that day. and when i looked again toda at that footage of his supporters being so upset, his supporters in congress sayin nobody's got faith in americ anymore, and their supporter in the streets, there were s rabbit, they lost the words, they were furious about this - i wonder if there had been fou or five or six days runnin that all of this was going t happen, if it might have playe out differently, if the fact that he might have changed his mind, that things might have shaken out differently for the country around the anger aroun this and whether or not that deal would have held because right now we've go plenty of notice that trump is going to be in new york on tuesday. we think he's going to b arraigned that day but we will see. >> i think the deal would have held agnew just didn't have the stuff for it and he just would not have don it he would not have gone to trial. mr. trump's agnew on steroid when it comes to them. and we don't know with the cas

that's been indicted contains. you understand it's 30 counts. there's been speculation tha it may not be, legally, th strongest case compared to the three other investigations tha are pending. but that will all be seen. we don't know what mr. alvin bragg has and we will all se sooner or later -- i imagine that mr. trump knows what mr. brag has. but i think trump's agnew on steroids i think anything could happen. >> ron leibman, do you have an advice that you could share or any lessons learned that you could hear from your experienc with mr. spellman and mr. baker, as young prosecutors working o this case, when this vic president, who had thi incredibly supportive, kind of rabid hard edged base that hun on his every word and love what he did, maybe even love

him more aggressively than the love nixon as president -- when he turned his venom on yo and his superiors at you justice department - and really, they brought a lot of pressure to bear on agnew - i wonder if you could sort of, through the tv screen tonight, address the members of the fulton county district attorney's office, the membe of the new york district attorney's office, the membe of the special counsel team in the justice department i washington, these othe prosecutors who are contending with potential charges against trump and the -- bringing to bear against them. how did you guys bear up how did you guys stay what was -- and stay focused >> first of all, it would be presumptuous of me to be teaching all these prosecutors how to suck eggs they know how to do it part of it was youth, suppose. but part of it was reall believing in our job our job as advocates for the united states was to bring a case, an investigative case, i the case was there, to bring

it and if it wasn't, to - stop, and he could not pursu it i remember vividly watchin agnew on tv in my little apartment in baltimore sitting here with my wife while agne was saying i will not resign i indicted, i will not resign if indicted, saying terribl things about the three of us it's noise and any seasoned prosecuto knows it is noise. you put your head down, you do your job, as i'm sure they are doing, and you speak in court. that's it. >> everybody keeps saying we are in uncharted territory uncharted waters it's not true. you and your colleagues charte these waters for us in man significant ways many year ago. and the country owes you a deb and the country owes it to you and to all of us, to remembe how -- ron leibman, former u.s. assistant attorney for marylan from 1972 to 1979, on th

prosecution team that brough the vice president spiro agnew to the end of his politica history. thank you for your time, tonight ron leibman. it's always good to see. >> it's good to see you too. >> all right, we've got much more ahead tonight stay with us here with fading protection but an updated vaccine restores your protection so you can keep doing you. ♪ ♪ [ cat purrs ] [ phone vibrates ] introducing astepro allergy. steroid-free allergy relief that starts working in 30 minutes, while other allergy sprays take hours. now with astepro fast allergy relief, [ spray, spray ] you can astepro and go. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. with the money we saved, we tried electric unicycles. i think i've got it! doggy-paddle! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ♪♪ remember the things you loved doing...

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for former president donal trump says the former presiden will turn himself in in ne york on tuesday. he will turn up voluntarily fo his arraignment --

in manhattan that may happen. but there is a group of people who are actively and publicl rooting for him to not tur himself in for example, florida republica congressman matt gates, wh earlier this year himsel narrowly ever to the crimina indictment in a federal se trafficking probe -- congressman gates last wee started calling on florida's republican governor to pledg to block any attempted extradition of donald trum from florida to new york he said, quote, florid governor ron desantis should b standing in the reach. that was matt gates last week. yesterday, governor ro desantis of florida complied with that -- and in fact said that florid will not assist in any extradition request. today, hard right congressma thomas massie of kentucky pu out this poll on twitter tha says, quote, should trump go t new york and submit to a probe-less indictment? or should he stay in florida

where governor ron desantis ha pledged not to assist with - that's what's called a pus pole -- question was raised how you ar supposed to answer it's no surprise to see that the result of this online push poll, the answer, stay i florida, don't turn yourself i is winning, like, 2 to 1 the whole point of a push poll like this is to encourage th idea, to try to normalize th idea that trump actually has the option to not turn himself in, that he has the option t defy law enforcement, to defin new york authorities and hideout in florida he does not have that righ under the law. but that is what thi influential republican congressman is pushing for and that is what florida's republican governor saying h will facilitate. one of the things we learned from reporting over the last 3 years ago is the near district attorney actually wanted trump to turn himself in today, no

next week, but today, friday response from trump's lega team was apparently, oh, h would love to do that. the secret service can't b ready that fast. the secret service needs mor time to your prepare for his security we can't get into new york any earlier than tuesday the da's office agreed to that but the idea the secret servic needs five days to move the man? that claim appears to be a false as it is preposterous. secret service officials tel nbc news julia ainsley in th service detail has nothing t do with a delay once - called it, quote, preposterous nevertheless, trump and hi lawyers were able to use tha claim to successfully dela trump's arraignment from today which is when the da wanted to do it, until tuesday again, despite as republican political push to get trump to

not turn himself in, his lawye is saying he will turn himself in on tuesday. but these things together, and pictures start to come int focus that it's a little bit unsettling right? i mean, the other thing that i happening now, republicans and conservative media are hinting at, or in some cases activel calling for protests in new york, around of the scene of trump's arraignment and booking on tuesday last night, the fox news channel, for example, primetim hosts and their guests, issued dark warnings about th reaction and the unrest that would be provoked by a donal trump arrest one guest said they're agitating for unrest i'm ready for whatever is next i hope every other man out there watching this show, hope you're ready for whatever is next. if that's what they want, let' get to it. should be traveling to new yor on tuesday to protest trump'

arrest on tuesday herself quot i'm going to new york on tuesday. we must protest the unconstitutional witch and she's proclaiming that she wil be there and inviting others t join her and you remembe marjorie taylor greene i having said in december that had sheet organized january 6t outside would have one and the crowd would have been armed. she's saying she will be in ne york personally on tuesday for protests against trump's arrest this is all as trump himself has kept up a steady stream of invective against th prosecutor, and now the judg in this case, now presiden trump online going after the judge, and indeed the judge is failing. when a result of the several-day delay that he ha now secured for himself in turning himself in it is tha donald trump ought himself and his allies time, time to try and maximize the chaos surrounding his indictment time to sow doubts and mak

plans about whether he wil turn himself in at all, whethe he could potentially mount som sort of last stand in florida, not come to new york at all, whether his arraignment coul be disrupted by a protester, even by violence would the threat be the same size if he had been surprise indicted yesterday and arraigned this morning with all of these several days to get ready for whatever it i they want to do on tuesday i this a more volatile and unpredictable situation it would have otherwise been. a more ball tie and affordable situation maybe exactly what trump and his allies wanted to feel like. watch this space

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the actual arraignment tuesday afternoon is scheduled t happen in a courtroom on the 15th floor of the criminal court building in lowe manhattan, in new york city. it will be in a room of that courthouse with a very specifi kind of residents for former president donald trump, because, in 2021, donald trump' business was charged with al slew of criminal fraud charges and that trial took place, not only in the same courthouse, where trump is set to be arraigned, but the trial for his organization, the trial fo his company was held literally in the exact same courtroo where we believe trump i

scheduled to be arraigned on tuesday. same room, same place. in that trial, trump's busines was found guilty, among othe things, of falsifying business records, which is at least one of the same charges trum himself is going to face in hi criminal trial, which, again will happen in the exact sam room it's a trip down memory lane for the former president o tuesday. he's going to step into that courtroom to face charges of falsifying business records, where his own business was jus convicted of falsifyin business records just a fe months ago it'll be familiar to his lawyer, trump's lawyer in this case, susan nicholas, she is the sam lawyer who defended trump' business in that criminal tria last year, that did not go wel for the defense. there were convictions on al counts who knows, maybe that was a dr run for her, maybe the first trump business fraud trial helped prepare her for thi next trump fraud trot file what should we expect to hea against these trains kinds o

charges? i suggested yesterday we shoul expect this trial based on wha kind of charges we think are going to be right here, we should expect this trial to be very boring. is that fair what should we, the public, be paying attention to as thi kind of trial plays out? joining us now, a man who knows, his name is mark again a fellow, a former assistant manhattan district attorney, same da's office bring these charges against trump. he's a former federa prosecutor, and, quite recently, defended clients in courts who have been charged with falsifying business records, these charges we are expecting to be brought against mr trump. thank you so much for bein here, i appreciate it. >> thanks for having me, rachel, i appreciate it as well. >> i'm not a lawyer, and i kno this is not going to be th quoted paltrow case, i kno there's not going to be camera in the courtroom, and followin it in that kind of way for those of us, i think a lot of americans who are going t be following this case closely should we expect a falsifyin business records case by

definition to be boring, and o hard to follow is this the sort of thing that we lay observers are going t understand >> the charge itself is fairly simple there has to be a business record that's been falsified for the trial to involve phony charges. there has to be a second inten to intend to commit anothe crime. the charges are pretty boring. i don't know any trial wit michael cohen as a witness i going to be all that boring. the charges are fairly pared down there's not a lot for the da's office to have to prove. they have to prove there was a business record, it was false. that there was a secondary intention to commit some other crime. they don't have to prove another crime was committed, o even attempted, just that ther wasn't intend to do that >> to be clear, we don't kno the exact charges are. there's reporting about th number of charges, som

reporting on the associate press about there being at least one felony charge, among that we don't know, we will know fo sure when we see the indictmen unsealed >> exactly >> in the absence of tha specific information, what d you think we should expect, if it is something along the line people are proposing, or supposing, that is going to be somewhere between two dozen an three dozen charges, a singl felony or a small number o felonies among a larger number of charges that earned felonies what would you expect in terms of the kind of timeline for trial like this to spool out >> so, i had quite a number of these trials, the da's offic brings these camps all the time what i tend to see, i don' know if we will see it in this case, there will be some overarching, either conspiracy count, or a scheme to defrau count, and the individual fals business record camps would be part and parcel of those large counts i don't know if that is what

they're going to do here they don't have to do that here it is unusual, though, in my these false business records counts withou an overarching, you know usually, felony. usually, some type of larcen scheme, or scheme to defraud or some sort of conspiracy the business record counts are sort of part of those larger counts so, we will all have to see, w are all speculating what doe that second crime, you know, a election type crime? is it something else we won't know until th indictment is unsealed >> let me ask you about on other aspect of this i was struck, the new york times has a justic correspondent named charli savage who is smart, and see around corners a lot of times. i've followed his work for a long time. one of the things that h contended and got expert advic from, got expert advice on today in the times, the idea that, even though this is th

first indictment of donald trump, there are a couple of other active crimina investigations that coul result in criminal charges against him and othe jurisdictions, including potentially federally. what charlie savage wa suggesting at the times, eve though this might be the first indictment, the way the ne york courts work, particularly around white collar offenses like this, this might not be the first one that actuall ends up in trial, in front of jury, because he suggested that, in the new york court system the courts are, essentially, set up to deal with a lot of pretrial appeals, a lot of pretrial motions a lot of things that could delay the actual start of th trial. if donald trump finds himsel federally indicted, or indicte in georgia, one of those thing might get to trial first do you think that seems like a fair contention, given you experience in the new york courts, with charges like this >> it's possible i mean, one of the feature about new york state practic that you don't have federally, you have meaningful motion

against the grand jury proceedings themselves you don't really have that i federal court. so, trump's lawyer is going to be able to argue to the judge, hey, the evidence they put i the grand jury is legall insufficient this indictment should b dismissed. in the federal courts, the grand jury is this black box we don't get to see into it and state courts, you do. so, the motion practice an state courts with, a littl more important, a little mor involved, and as a result, it' a longer timeline of motions i'd expect this trial to be, you know, maybe, a year from now. i think everyone is going to b watching it george is not going to want it to linger a year is a safe gessen term of timeline. federal cases, very often, get to trial sooner than that. sometimes, six months, eight months so, if there is a federa indictment of trump in the nex

month or two, it's possibl that case would get to trial before this one. >> you have materially increased my amount of information about this, an helped me understand it in a way i did not before thank you for that clarity, it is really invaluable marc agnifilo, a forme assistant manhattan district attorney, former u.s. attorney somebody who has dealt wit these types of cases in thes courts sir, thank you for being here, it's helpful >> tnkhas, rachel, anytime >> thanks, we'll be right back stay with us [♪♪] if you have diabetes, it's important to have confidence in the nutritional drink you choose. try boost glucose control®. it's clinically shown to help manage blood sugar levels and contains high quality protein to help manage hunger and support muscle health. try boost® today. my husband and i have never been more active.

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visibility, a day for honoring the contributions of trans people, and acknowledging th discrimination they face in ou country. president biden marked the day with a proclamation from the white house, the white house posted this from him online, quote, on transgender day of visibility, we want you to kno we see you just as you are made in the image of god, an deserving of dignity, respect, and support. we will never stop working t create a world where you won't have to be brave just to b yourself for trans people on our countr this year, so much depends o who controls the state government where you live. in minnesota, democrats contro the state house, state senate, and the governorship right now they are passing legislation right now to effectively mak minnesota a refuge for trans people who travel there seeking, among other things, medica care in nebraska, democrats are i the minority there, but thos democrats have been using what power they have, even in the

minority, to filibuster ever single bill. filibustering every single bil in the legislature just to try and stop republicans from goin after trans kids look, here's news tonight from tennessee, another state where republicans control th government in tennessee, republicans spen the day waiting for their ne ban on drag to take effect a midnight, tonight, nice timing guys thanks to a republican passe law as of midnight tonight, se to become illegal in tennessee to have a drag performance anywhere a minor might conceivably be present, whic of course is anywhere. repeat offenses could put yo in prison for up to six years. we could report, right now tennessee republicans are goin to be waiting longer tha midnight for that. tonight, since we have been on the air, a federal judge has put a hold on that new law judge thomas parker is a trump appointee, who wrote this in his ruling quote, without our country's federal framework, states ar

laboratories of democracy that can test laws and policies and enacted by the people. even still, these experiment are not without constraints. the u.s. constitution, a law that is supreme, even to the tennessee general assemblies act, has placed some issue beyond the reach of th democratic process first among them, freedom of speech if tennessee wishes to exercis its police power in restrictin speech itconsiders obscene, it must do so within th constraints and framework of the u.s. constitution. this court finds that, as it stands, the record her suggests, that when th legislature passed this statute, it missed the mark again, the tennessee ban o drag was supposed to tak effect tonight at midnight it will now be on hold while this federal legal challenge plays t.ou we'll be right back. ut t here with fading protection but an updated vaccine restores your protection so you can keep doing you.

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only from xfinity. >> all right, that is going to the future starts now. do it for us tonight i promise you alex wagner will be back in the chair next week when she is back from vacation thanks for having me here last night, and tonight i'll see you again for m regularly scheduled rachel maddow show on monday. it's time for the last wor with lawrence o'donnell. good evening, lawrence >> good evening, rachel,ap