history. nbc news has learned that hi indictment includes about 30 charges related to documen fraud. classified as misdemeanors the associated press i reporting that according to it sources trump has also faced a least one felony charg stemming from the manhatta district attorney alvin bragg' investigation. of the former presidents rol in the hush money payment, mad to the former adult film actress stormy daniels with whom he allegedly had a affair donald trump does deny that he had that affair. but, in a new interview with the london-based times radio that aired yesterday daniels said she is not afraid and she hopes to be called to testif against trump. trump's indictment is expected to remain sealed tuesday afternoon is scheduled to turn himself in to be formall arraigned out of manhattan courthouse while there he will be fingerprinted, processed, an have charges right to him. judge -- who will oversee the case, coincidentally the same judg who presided over the trum organization's criminal ta fraud trial late last year that resulted in the company

being fined the maximum penalt of one point $6 million. all of the logistics like weight, it not a lot has happened yet but, trump and many have his allies have already bega criticizing and accusing the justice system of being corrup and biased against him donald trump, like anyon accused of a crime in th united states, is presumed innocent until proven guilty and is also entitled to his da in court in order to defen himself. but, his focus of the moment seems to be delegitimizing the justice system altogether. i think that lebron support of the republican party the vast majority of you elected members of which hav already come to his defense. and latinos continuing to ru against him as the leader of the party in the 2024 gop trum presidential nominee like his own vice president, mike pence >> i think the unprecedented indictment of a former president of the united states for a campaign finance issue i an outrage

i think it's clear to th overwhelming majority of the american people that this is nothing short of a political prosecution. being affected by a manhatta da who literally campaigned on range arduous against on particular american. >> the town, counter, an substance of much of trump world indictment seems so some undermining the justice system in order to undercut the validity of a guilty verdict politically it is a messag that has worked for trump in the past trump has been fundraising off the news of his indictment his campaign says he has received more than $4 millio in new donations in the firs 24 hours after news broke of the indictment joining me now is nbc news washington correspondent - yamiche, you have been out there, talking to people i addition to the fact that yo have this great, deep well o sources. the panel who you ask this i entirely differently, this is case the grand jury ha evaluated based on the facts

not for guilt or innocence but just determined there is enoug to go to trial there are a lot of people in america who do not believe tha to be true >> that is right, it is very interesting because the wa that americans see thi indictment and for president trump's legal problems i really influenced by their political affiliation and thei political perspective. that bears out not just in the people i have been talking t in polling, we see one pol just released in the last week that said that something lik 93% of republicans think tha the manhattan da's issues an legal case that is politically motivated. and then 66% of democrats sa it is actually motivated b law. and then, in talking to people i have to tell you when i haven't talked with democrats and democratic voter in d.c.. one man told me he was ecstati and he was having a tough da but seeing trumping indicted made him feel better he also paused to say th georgia da who is looking into

election interference could be the special counsels case when it comes to january 6th. so, there are democrats who ar still worried about this case. but, overall you are seeing th democratic party who i embracing this and then republicans are reall rushing to his defense and i think it is fascinating to see not just trump supporters bu people who could really benefi from being quiet and saying ho this plays out someone like florida governo ron desantis, and mike pence t her potential rivals perform president trump. who are coming out before we know the charges, before the know the details, say this is political prosecution. that tells you the grip to former president trump has o his party. i should tell you i whopping 72% of republicans have told u in the last week that they think former president trump had a positive overall impac on the republican party. even though he lost the 2020 election, even in the midterms both in 2022 and 2018 wher problematic. but, you see the republica party still embracing former president trump, ali

>> because everybody likes someone who energize the bas and for better or worse donald trump actually does that but, you bring up an interesting point because i wa talking about the reaction i trump world. which seems to have expanded t pretty much of every elected republican in congress but, neither mike pence no iran says fit into tha category they are potentially trump opponents like trump pence has made very clear. he thinks donald trump put him in his family's life in danger on january 6th, there is n love lost today between mike pence and don trump. or, run desantis and donal trump. but, they have also thrown themselves fully into this thing, they have not sai things like donald trump wil have a trial and is presumed innocent until proven guilty he may walk away and nothing will have happened they are not saying that, they talk about it legitimate prosecution. >> exactly, it really is fascinating to think the peopl who could be running against former president trump are not waiting back and saying let' see how this plays out let's think about the person who lives in the house right behind me who is president

biden. the white house said we are no going to comment on an ongoing criminal investigation reminds me of the 2020 electio where former president trump had a big debacle on his hands when it came to the covid-19 pandemic he was telling people to tak clorox to treat the virus, and he had all of these really tough issues you saw that candidate biden really stepping back and letting him muddy the waters in this case, the people who would be former presiden trump's political rivals, ro desantis, mike pence, nikk haley, tim scott all of these different republicans instead of steppin back and being quiet to see ho this goes. they are jumping out in front, likely because they want to be seen as making sure that the are with the republican party. but, it is not helping the when it comes to who could bea donald trump in some ways, it could create glide path for trump to win th gop nomination if everyone i rallying behind you. is it >> is a just there i zero currency and being tran

why on this one, just let it burn it out but there is n benefit in being in front of this >> when i talk to republican it seems that this narrative o a big government that is going after every day americans, thi narrative that republicans are somehow conservative victims i a narrative that goes far past donald trump but the voters have really embrace this remember former president trum has said they are not just coming after me i am reall thing standing between you and the political enemies. that is why trump supporters and republicans, in some way what is animating over republicans to get on boar because is not just abou trump's legal problems they're letting it be this ide that any american could be subject to the law, which in some cases is true if you break the law in this country you will be subject to the same sort of legal consequences that we are seein play out in the case of th manhattan da's case. there is a little bit of truth to that there is not some gran conspiracy based on my reporting to go afte conservatives. but, that is the line that i taking of the republican party which is why you see these

republican rivals grabbing o to this idea >> it is good to see thi morning, thank you for joining us, nbc news corps washingto correspondent. with me now barbara quip former united states attorne for the eastern district o michigan and, also joining us lisa rubi a former litigator and also legal analyst who has kept m posted all week. is because of lisa even no questions asked. so, thanks to both of you. barbara, i would ask a question, i have dealt with the idea tha there are a lot of allegations on he's issued by republican that this is a political prosecution. and persecution, as on trump says but, tell me about timing. because, these cases take long time. they take months, if not longe than a year. today we seem to have some space between us and the nex presidential election but in a year we will not have much does this become more politica the longer it takes? >> well, i think, ali people are going to talk about it a if it is political

we have already seen such deluge of attacks. before people have even seen the charges that this is politically motivated. they don't even know what it says i think so in court, politics and nothing to do with it. in court there will be motions filed. there will be hearings and, ultimately there will be trial. but, all of that is done in th vacuum of the courtroom. so, i think by the time we get to the election it is also possible that there will b other criminal charges maybe in georgia, maybe federal case so, the landscape is probabl going be very different 18 months from now when we ar actually at the trial time and, i guess it is gonna b worse and not better police say you and i talke about in addition to all the accusations of illegitimacy, i addition to the sort o antisemitic and racist ropes o a sorrow as backed guy who the call in animal in addition to that, donal trump is not talking about the prosecution itself being election interference.

now i worry when you said, tha i worried that that means that even if there is a verdict tha donald trump does like, yo can't resist that if you get convicted. and people, can if they ar convinced for months on en that this is illegitimate an its election interference. >> absolutely. aly one of the things i thin he is doing here that is s dangerous is seeding a entirely new electio interference narrative because he understands that th old narrative is both as false as it is dangerous for the fortunes of the republican party at large the republican party canno afford to ignore mail-in voting, absentee voting, even ballot harvesting which is strong hannity noted last week in a interview with trump's perfectly lawful in a vast majority of states donald trump knows that in these finally come around to that but he has to keep the narrative of electio interference alive and enter these investigations, which ar now taking the place of the bi lie instead of the big lie, yo have the big investigation and he needs to keep tha

alive. as victimization is key to his success and what's reall troubling, hear thes prosecutions and investigation are not election interferenc at all there are simply peopl following the facts and th law. but for these investigations however, i question whethe donald trump would even be a candidate. he is the one who is trying to interfere with elections b making himself a candidate where he might not ordinaril have that interest but for the fact that he is trying t out-run these investigations >> it's interesting you sa that because or someone else i the world, benjamin netanyah is under indictment and go himself reelected to being the president of israel in the midst of something calle judicial reforms, included a clause that said that you ca dino very hard to remove him from government. i want to go back to this with you barbara and ask, to what degree because there are mor prosecutions potentially t come, some federal, some civil and the georgia da, does everybody get together and say we are running into a proble because donald trump wil

actually make this the cente of his reelection campaign >> no not at all ali, prosecutor's right out of th doj manual say that politica concerns are not to be taken into consideration when making charging decisions not only will they not think about it, they are directed no to consider it it had been improper consideration. prosecutors are supposed t look at the facts in the law t decide whether they can obtain and sub saying that conviction and then a look at things like is very substantial federa interest in bringing this case you don't bring ever jaywalking cason every littering case because it's no worth the resources. but when you have someone wh has abused power or violated laws that other people, ge prosecuted for then standing down just because a person is presidential candidate would violate the rule of law. and really that is what al these critics are saying they have not even seen th charges that and they ar complaining about this unprecedented prosecution of a former president in a curren

candidate. what they're really saying, is he should get special treatmen just because he's a former president or he is the presidential candidate that is not how this country works, that's not how the rule of law works >> i want to redo somethin lisa about mark pomerantz, thi is donald trump posted about marc prominence in which h said don't forget the clinto lawyer mark pomerantz or lef private practice to become a da, prosecutor president donald trump only to leave during the investigative process to sell book and tainting the entire case, here too for unheard o stuff. it's not supposed to work that way and then in all caps election interference kangaroo court. very much like many of donal trump's posters, a lot o information in there, what i he talking about >> i think what he's talking about is that mark pomerantz ort of laid bare in his book a lot of the think in th manhattan district attorney' office during the period o time which he was serving whic is basically through the end o cyber answers tenure and a couple of months into alvi bragg's tenure he talked at length abou

various flaws with legal theories that they sort of tried on and discarded and now having had tha information in the publi domain, donald trump is saying wait one second, mark pomerant told the whole world that this case was nothing and alvin bragg has resuscitated it. that must mean is politicall motivated. i think that narrative i entirely wrong putting aside whether it was proper from mike pomerantz t put that book into the publi domain, i think what happene was alvin bragg came int office he had not been in the manhattan da's offic previously, in fact he had a long career as a prosecutor an federal domain and then the ne york attorney generals offic and said wait one second i just got here. i need some time to familiariz my staff and senior leadership with your investigation. i need to wrap my arms aroun this and by all accounts including according to a new york times story, that's exactly what he did but donald trump is going to seize on the pomerantz book as exemplar's o prosecutorial misconduct selective prosecution and he i going to run with that book al the way through pretrial motio

practice with new york state court which is much more robus in the federal system. >> thanks to both of you thi morning, as always lisa thanks again all week wrapping up t understand this much mor clearly than i would've on m own. margaret is the former unite states attorney, nbc legal analyst. lisa rubin is a former litigator, also an msnbc legal analyst. all right nbc news has learned that donald trump is heading t new york city on monday night, he's expected to arrive at the courthouse in lower manhatta around 1 pm on tuesday befor heading back to the airport to fly back to florida, later i the day. coming, up i will discuss th republican response to trump's indictment including som potentially dangerous rhetoric and some races - plus i will talk about the future and the current state o american democracy but the man who helped save it back in 2020, judge michael leloup on the subway app. like this one! 50% off?! that deal's so good we don't even need an eight-time all-star to tell you about it. wait what? get it before it's gone on the subway app!

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donald trump and what the week ahead may bring, i'm joined by david rohde, executive edito of new yorker.com and an msnbc contributor. author of numerous books including and deep, the nba, the cia untruth about americas deep state the book details the lengths t which then attorney genera bill barr went shield donald trump at the u.s. justic department but they've, it i becomes increasingly relevan here all of the seeds that were planted about the deep state since before donald trump wa elected by donald trump and hi

allies is coming to play thi week and this indictment the idea that there is tha they out, they're out to get people and the donald trump is the lightning rod for them he is a thing that stand between people in a deep state that is illegitimate >> yes, as an extraordinar moment this is sort of years in the making and that it's, core thi is about you know is i possible for there to be nonpartisan public servants? i think we need, them we nee nonpartisan judges we nonpartisan police officers we need nonpartisan election officials who can count votes, after elections and we can trust their outcomes that is going to be the broade you know narrative here. not everyone is political, everyone is biased, no one i honest, no one wants to do the right thing regardless o politics i don't think that's true. i think we need more nonpartisan public service i this country we need more trust in each other because otherwise, it'

just sort of endless spiral of accusations and conspiracy theories >> one of the reasons to hav you here in this conversatio is because you cover these stories around the world it is not a typical, in an instance where a current o former politician gets indicte that they don't lean into this this is a try it and to recipe right? this is a persecution, not a prosecution? >> absolutely. you mentioned earlier benjamin netanyahu it is real but there is a long history, several former leaders of france and have been brought up o charges. italy, berlusconi has been criminally investigated. it's an unfortunate, thing has not happen in the u.s. but i does happen in certain countries. i want to emphasize what was said earlier, you said i yourself donald trump like every single american is innocent until proven guilty. he deserves a fair trial, he may get acquitted here and i he gets acquitted you know, we have to accept it. this was the verdict of ou

peers and that is our system this is the rule of law. >> that's the interesting part though because i would'v expected thursday night' response both from donald trum and from his supporters to say something similar to that. that, hey innocent until prove guilty this is america. i think this is not legitimate charge but the poin is i will have my day in court to prove it. there was precious, little o that out there in the ether. there is all witch hunt, soros socialist, politically motivated prosecution. >> i agree and to be honest, i think this is in a way a political opportunity fo donald trump if he can tone down th rhetoric, act calmly, be arraigned in court and maybe b acquitted of these charges that would all help hi politically. the danger i think for him i if there is violence you know? marjorie taylor greene i coming to new york on tuesday, to be a part of a protes there. the flyer advertising on a mailing list of emails and i

got it from local republicans, says it's supposed to be peaceful it's up to him i think that there is violence if he is constantly attackin the judge in the jury an saying this is all unfair, i think that will alienate you know key suburban moderate voters who did not vote fo donald trump-backed candidates in the midterms. and i know he will create even larger problems for himself in a general election >> david, i want to switch gears for a second, russia authorities have detained an american reporter. evan gershkovich and a wal street journal reporter. they accused him of spying i attempting to obtain stage secrets. you posted on your twitter quite a bit about hi detainment and you als understand quite deeply this issue of state held, wrongfull detained people. tell me what you make of the situation? >> this is a part of a sort of tragic and growing pattern, no at least 54 americans bein held around the world unjustly and exchanged. years, ago extremist group

that were grabbing americans now it's authoritarian governments, evan is the lates one. there is at least two othe americans, paul whelan has bee held for four years. an american under fals espionage charges. mark, full on american schoo teacher was arrested for havin a small amount of medica marijuana in russia an sentenced to 16 years in prison i work with people who kno evan incredibly, well it greater no list and this is tragedy for him and hi vladimir putin wanting t prevent any independen journalism from occurrin inside russia. >> david, thanks very much for your coverage and for your analysis this morning. david rohde is executive edito and new yorker.com, and a msnb contributor, he's also the author in deep, the fbi, the cia and the truth about americ deep state quote, the institutions of our democracy and law are unde vicious, on sustainable and on endurable attack and a quote that is the warning from judge michael looting, former judg on the u.s. court of appea

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a global conference on democracy, stating the leaders around the globe that th united states is quote demonstrating the resilience o american democracy, and quote. i hate to say it but i canno say that i'm seeing much proof of that resilient democrac these days i tend to agree more wit something that judge michael luttig said last week, quote the institutions of ou democracy and law are unde vicious, unsustainable and a endurable attack from within american democracy and the rul of law are in peril, the pillars of democracy and the rule of law are faltering from these attacks as we speak today. but the former presidents in this republican party is determined then i'll january six, the refusal to acknowledg that the former president lost the 2020 presidential election fair and square and thei

promise of the 2024 election will not be quote stolen fro them again as they maintain it was in 2020. america's democracy and th rule of law are in constitutional peril still, an there is no end to the threa insight, and quote that was judge michael luttig, former federal judge on th u.s. court of appeals for th fourth circuit judge luttig has long been regarded as a leadin conservative legal mind whic you might know him for his rol in helping to preserve our democracy on january six, 2021 judge looting gave that speech and i just quoted from at th university of georgia school o law on march 22nd. and as a result of that speech we made a plan to have judge looting on the show toda having nothing to do with th manhattan grand jury indictmen of former president trump. like many americans, judge lootings concern for america democracy is rooted in the events around january 6th. we now know that in the days before the insurrection, the vice president and the president trump tried to convince then vice president

pence to use his power in th senate to overturn the results of the election. pence's personal lawyer called judge looting for help looting quickly rode up hi opinion that the vice presiden had no power to change the outcome any posted it on twitter and on january six pence's staff recorded lutti reasoning sighting in by mad into a letter announcing tha pence would not try to block the counting of the electora vote as we watch the gop abando pretense of operating under th rule of law, of operating with democratic values this conversation feels more presen than ever. joining me now is george michael luttig, the former federal judge on the u.s. cour of appeals for the fourt district judge luttig good morning, thanks for joining us this morning. i want to talk about tha speech because that was th reason that we book to during the, speech you gave at the university school of law you are addressing mostly law, scooting and you said quot indeed it might not be muc overstatement if any to sa that during your lifetime, thi great nation of laws and which

we are privileged to live well effectively decide whether i will live by the rule of law o whether it will live by th rule of politics so all consuming has become th politicization of our country, our institutions of democrac and now, even our institutions of law tell me more about that, sir >> thank you for having me o with you today the perils for america democracy and the rule of la actually crested with thursday indictment in manhattan. and the republican party's continued denial of januar six. its refusal to acknowledge the former president lost the 2020 election there is now no end in sight t these perils in the months, ahead america's democracy and rule of law will be severely tested and hopefully not beyond the breaking point what the former president wa

to be indicted in any of the pending criminal investigations, and to his offenses against th united states, it should hav been first for his offenses an attempting to overturn the 202 election what will now be the prosecution in manhattan as th very last prosecution, the country would have wanted to b the first prosecution of a president of the united states and the first prosecution of this president in particular all frankly, it'll serves th nation for this indictment t be the first indictment of a president in our history the trial in manhattan promise to be a spectacle unbecoming o the united states and immensel damaging to the united state of america

as peggy puts it in the wall street journal this past week, while this indictment an prosecution is perhaps not beneath the former president it is beneath us as americans. on the other hand, the effor to overturn the 2020 electio and the attack on the united states capitol wer unprecedented and grav offenses against not onl america's democracy but also the rule of law. it's the investigation int these grave offenses where there is urgency not into the matter of the president and stormy daniels and fortunately, i'm afrai that this indictment out o manhattan is the high cost t the nation of the inevitably protracted but nonetheless

protracted investigation by th department of justice into the events of january 6th. i guess what the manhattan indictment will do though is ratchet up exponentially tha our pressure on jack smith and the department of justice. as well as a district attorney in fulton county, georgia to seek indictments as quickly as possible if they are going to and i those indictments ar forthcoming soon, they wil eclipse the indictment i manhattan and we focus the country on the forme presidents conduct that should be the focus his effort to overturn the 202 election >> well both of those, the other cases that were to speak to federal cases, georgi indictment even the document case all of them do perhaps hav greater degrees of complexit than the one facing th

manhattan jury back in january, in th washington post you publishe an in-depth over the washingto post published a in-dept profile on you and quoted yo saying that donald trump's rol and the insurrection i arguably the worst crime against the united states at a president could commit he was started at the, time in that article that there is ample evidence against him and that that just made th beginning of the end of donald trump. do you hold the same opinion given the unwavering support within the republican party fo donald trump right now even amongst his opponents, hi potential opponents. that was mike pence who thin that he did their family, hi family a great deal of harm? >> ali, i hold the same opinio oh the more because of the republicans circling of th wagons to protect the former president and as i mentioned at the top of the segment when

they are now unified and continuing insistence that the former president won the 202 presidential election and that the january six l was nothin to be concerned about. well let me also say for you viewers ali that that th investigations both by the department of justice and in fulton county by distric attorney fani, willis that the are large even massive investigations as such the indictments and prosecutions there, if there are to be those, actually would not be as complicated as a matter of law

as this indictment in manhatta promises an appears to be. >> i want to ask you because w have some comments from michae pence right now. and he has mention among other things, when he was asked abou january 6th. he's a donor trump and i'm paraphrasing here which fe incorrect information from his advisors that day but that pence was always confident i what his duty was in terms o certifying the vote. not on was quoted to the situation they knew because it was my pence's lawyer wh contacted you to say can you give us some cover, in terms o your legal scholarship do you believe that to be true pence was always confident tha he was not in a position to do with donald trump wanted i overturning the election i congress >> i don't have any insigh into the conversations and imaginations within the whit house. but i have no question at al that the former vice president

always believed will be th outset that he had no authorit to unilaterally overturn the election on january 6th, ali >> thank you for that, certainly appreciate time as always underestimate judge michael looting is a judge and former u.s. court of appeals for the fourth circuit while republicans on the right have rushed to rally behind th former president, saying the a indictment against mis everything from anti-democrati to the start of war. up next i discuss the real danger posed by that sort of rhetoric and the anti semiti trope at the center of the response so naturally, we doubled down with a new puppy. thankfully, we also have tide ultra-oxi with odor eliminators. between stains and odors, it can handle double trouble. for the #1 stain fighter and odor remover, it's got to be tide. justin baker: across the globe, the vast majority of children with cancer will die. those children deserve so much better. the thing we are called to do is to make sure

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republican officials, includin senate minority leader mitch mcconnell have yet to publicly react to the news that donal trump has been criminall indicted so what does emerging as a ver vocal, majority of republica public figures offering thei uniform support but some eve using the indictment as rallying cry, using language that undermines the justic system some indirectly alluded to violence including what tv personality publicly saying no is not a good time to get ri of your ar-15 rifles another saying that th indictment means that by 2020, five the country will be a quote war and living in virtual police state and tha the u.s. dollar will collapse. and nbc news has learned tha

donald trump is reaching out t republican allies on the hil to consult about next apps including to represent mat gates and senator lindse graham who after the january 6th insurrection, famously sid on the floor of the senate tha trump could count him out. but is now pleading with viewers of fox news to donat to trump's campaign to offse his legal bills. lindsey graham also posted o twitter quote, how can president avoid prosecution in new york on the way to the da's offic on tuesday, trump should smashed some windows, rob a fe shops and punch up he would be least immediately. all caps, exclamation point. house majority leader kevi mccarthy essentially vowed t weaponize the chamber fo trump's defense promising to hold investigations and do i in his, words hold the manhattan da, alvin brag accountable. whatever that means. even former republican congressman peter meijer, on of the few house republicans who voted to impeach trump following january six and wh lost his seat over that vote i

backing trump calling for an indictment, calling th indictment quote week blan sauce. he did not say that word, he used the whole word. while trump's and daughter ivanka trump offered a slightl more tame response posting o instagram, quote i love my father and i love my country today i am pain for both i appreciate the voices across the political spectrum expressing support and concerned, and quote after the, break we take a loo at how this type of rhetoric i far more than a dog whistle on just how dangerous it is t americans in our society is strong enamel- nothing beats it. new pronamel active shield actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. i think that this product is a gamechanger for my patients- it really works. (man) what if my type 2 diabetes takes over? (woman) what if all i do isn't enough? gamechanger for my patients- or what if i can do diabetes differently?

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a professor of history i american studies at yale university the president of the society for historians of the earl american republican, the autho of the field of blood, violenc in congress on the road to the civil war. awful with me as jennife reuben, an opinion writer at the washington post and

political msnbc politica analysts, also the author of resistance how women sav democracy from donald trump. her latest piece in th washington post gets right t the heart of the matter. trump is indicted and justic is served. welcome to both of, you than you for being with us. i want to ask you jennifer because i think there is something that we cannot say enough because of all of the republican responses, almost all that i saw from congress members of congress about alvi bragg. there have been some dehumanizing things that donal trump has said about alvin bragg in the last words, las weeks including calling him an animal and there is his endless reference to sorrows backed. everybody says it and i think that some peopl in good faith don't know wha they are saying but thos people who started these thing do and what they are saying. sorrows back to mean something very specific. >> it certainly does, george s raz is a holocaust survivor of hungarian birth who is a major donor to various democratic an

progressive causes, as is hi constitutional right he is a no way tie to alvi bragg. he is not given money to alvin bragg, he has not met with alvin bragg. but by citing the name o george soros and implementin that this was a part of conspiracy, part of a secret society, republicans wer invoking his name are raisin the specter, the antisemitic specter of jews who control th media, choose who contro government, jews who control a great deal of the money in the united states. this is antisemitism plain and simple i am very disturbed when press accounts of this do not explai this to the american people. they simply repeat, they simpl paired the statement that he i sorrows back sometimes if it got to say tha mr. soares is jewish while the people who are saying, there's the people to whom the are saying get, the base understand quite well what thi is about this is about antisemitism

and at a time in which antisemitism is skyrocketing i this country in which th second gentleman has gone to europe, has created this as problem that it is in trying t rally a whole of governmen approach this is entirely unacceptable. it's unacceptable fo republicans, it's unacceptable for the immediate not to explain this and to call republicans out for it and i fear that we are onc again normalizing very abnorma behavior beyond acceptable >> that's why it's important t say. this joanne itch becomes a par of conversation and people wil probably start casually saying you, know he is funded and backed by george soros without realizing that what you ar saying is you are dredging u old imagery, very successful old antisemitic imagery of literally a jewish puppe master whether it be finance o media or politics and how th justice system and a black man, the suggestio

might be is hapless. he couldn't do what he is doin but for the fact that this ric jew is controlling him i think it is important to cal it what it is. you can decide what you like about the prosecution or alvin bragg or not but this is something else this is the othering of th prosecutors. >> it's absolutely vital for any number of reasons, so ye it's the othering of prosecutors. i do think it's normalizin pretty blatantly antisemitic language and a lot of people are certainly denying this and as you said at the outset ali, it might be some people are no aware that the name soros is not being used has kind of antisemitic banner in the same way that earlier in the century, rough child was a name that wa thrown around. the rothschilds and everyone oh you mean the world networ of jews trying to contro everything it's plain saintly antisemitic in this being used in that way to other people as was jus said, i think making that know

to people who honestly don't know it and i certainly got lot of pushback for the simple fact that stating that it' antisemitic is pretty importan that people understand what it is and what it means tha people in power are using it >> standby to both of yo cheese, john freeman and jennifer reuben weom ce back after the break with more of this conversation. stay with us it's a perfect fit for my small business. (vo) verizon has business internet solutions nationwide. (man) for our not-so-small business too. (vo) get internet that keeps your business ready for anything. from verizon. i'm jonathan lawson here to tell you about life insurance through the colonial penn program. if you're age 50 to 85, and looking to buy life insurance on a fixed budget, remember the three ps. what are the three ps? the three ps of life insurance on a fixed budget are price, price, and price. a price you can afford, a price that can't increase, and a price that fits your budget.

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professor of history i american studies at yale university, jennifer reube opinion writer with th washington post and msnb political analyst. joanne, you are an expert on violence, violence in politics a couple things that happene this week are the last coupl of weeks have stood out to me. one is donald trump calling fo people to protest and take bac the nation on thursday night the host that fox had said thi is not a good time to give u your ar-15s. you saw the lindsey graham comment onmaybe if donal trump smashed some windows and punches a cop in the, face wil be immediately released. he was meeting that by the way in the context that people are accusing alvin bragg of bein soft on crime, generally but the bottom line is we ar in this fraught moment where first amendment rights intact, one might want to be cautiou about things that sugges violence >> oh, for sure it's irresponsible. very blatantly irresponsible t use that kind of language. i think it's also important to

note that part of the reason part of the rationale for usin that kind of language is precisely for what we ar talking about here which i that if you would spread tha kind of talk, essentially yo are making threats and the ide behind that is to get people who oppose you to back down, t remain silent. it feeds into this general ide that oh, no we better not do anything against trump because if we, do it's going to ge people angry and there will be violence you don't amend or subtract th rule of law because you ar afraid there might be violence if you enforce it. so part of what we see wit this language is bullying, elaborate bullying and a attempt to how people who ar up close to former president trump in this indictment movement and that matters lot. in addition to the fact that i is simply irresponsible by potentially encouraging people who might be particularly eage to be violent. >> let me ask you about, this

lawyer in addition to being commentator and journalists, what i was surprised that in the reactions by people who ar wanting to support donald trum was the idea that this was not a trial, this was an indictment he gets an absolute trial, h is absolutely presumed to be innocent regardless of what' on people might think abou otherize the term and by a jur of his peers representative donna bacon o nebraska had said on frida morning, it seems inappropriat for some to be so joyful ove someone's indictment or to criticize a prosecutor for making an indictment before we are even able to read th indictment let's get the facts and see ho this plays out there will be time for us al to make a better judgment. i would've expected dozens o things like don bacon said, still can't find anything othe than the one that don baco said >> not only on the republica side, i do commend democrats virtually all the electe leaders have been saying something along the lines that this illustrates knowing som

of the law, he has the presumption of innocence, we should not comment, let the la go forward and i don't think anyone shoul be confused as joe and says, this is precisely what trump did in the run up to january 6th. he knows there are facts out there he knows there are dangerous people he is inciting them. and the risk that somebody who is quite frankly, not mentally all there and not entirely i touch with reality will take this up as an order to g forward. just as the people on januar 6th his word to be wild, as an order from the president of th united states. to go up to the hill and try and create a riot, tried t prevent the peaceful transfe of power there are people who wil listen to this and take hi seriously. he is now invoking alvin bragg by name. he is now invoking the name of the judge who is going t arraign him, saying that h hates donald trump that particular judge actually

presided in the criminal trial of the fraud corporation tha donald trump has so one to start invoking the names o people who are involved in the justice system, and using this kind of language, that becomes a threat and i would not b surprised at all in fact i would hope that th judge at the arraignment nex week on tuesday zested donal trump, this has to stop. if you, don't you are going to be back, here you are going to be subject to a gag order whic is enforceable by contempt you cannot go out there and tr to influence the jury pool you cannot go out there and tr to whip up the mob that will not be tolerated and i fear that if he doesn' do that, that we are in for host of trauma and we alread see that all than bragg ha just been inundated by avalanche of threats the people who work in the courthouse are in danger, th people of new york are i danger the police in new york are i danger and there is no way tha we should be tolerating this

this was the mode of operation on january six and shame on us if we don't take it seriously. and don't prepare for it >> right, we have actually see this before so we want to make sure that having known how thi can unfold, we take al precautions that it does not involve this way thanks to both of, you great t see what joe and freeman is professor of history and american studies at yale university, the author of book about political violence. they feel the, blood violenc and congress and the road to the civil war. jennifer reuben is an opinio writer with the washington pos and an author of resistance, how women save democracy from donald trump, still ahead former vice president mike pence said this week no man is above the law including former president but he also maintain that the trump indictment is quote the criminalization of politics straight ahead, i talk to hi former senior adviser olivia troye about pence's thinking and political calculations a he continues to mull a 202 white house run. another hour of velshi begin right now.