tv The Reid Out MSNBC April 3, 2023 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT
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. donald trump has long survived by getting others to do his dirty work tonight, we heard from one of those people, michael cohen, about exactly that process >> donald trump stood on that same aircraft and he turned around and he said, ask michael cohen. he's my lawyer he'll tell you well, i had been telling you i had been telling the world going back since the house oversight committee exactly who donald trump is and exactly what transpired here. >> that is what cohen said tonight, and he will, if there's a trial, testify at it thanks for spending time with us we have a big day tomorrow msnbc will have the entire arraignment process covered from donald trump going in to the d.a.'s statements and an episode of "the beat" tomorrow at 6:00 p.m. eastern i hope to see you then "the reidout" starts now
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tonight, on the eve of a legal reckoning for donald trump in new york city. trump made an ignominious return to his former hometown today ahead of his history making day in court tomorrow. as the first american president ever charged with a crime, we're less than 24 hours from trump's expected arraignment in a manhattan courtroom on likely charges he falsified documents in hush money payments to porn actress stormy daniels the details of the indictment remain under seal. but we do know some details about what lies ahead for the reality star turned politician the twice impeached former president will spend tonight at trump tower, his '80s style apartment where we'll have access to his signature golden toilet before heading to the courthouse tomorrow morning where we'll get a taste of how the rule of law works for every other criminal defendant in america he's expected to surrender and he'll be fingerprinted whether he'll get a mugshot remains up in the air, but he's not likely to be handcuffed or
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placed in a holding cell a nod to his unlikely election to the highest office in the land in a sign of a circus to come, trump's journey from palm beach to new york was given the full o.j. simpson white bronco treatment today. with aerial cameras tracking his every move as new york city braces for the spectacle with security a top concern, especially as the former president has called on his supporters to protest, warning of death and destruction. and according to the guardian's higgo lowell, trump has told associated that he is prepared to escalate his attacks on manhattan d.a. alvin bragg in a statement sunday, an nypd spokesperson said officers have been placed on alert and will remain ready to respond as needed ahead of trump's court appearance noting that there are no current credible threats to new york city today, mayor eric adams made clear new york city is not here to play with donald, and he put his followers on notice.
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>> while there may be some rabble-rousers thinking about to our city tomorrow, our message is clear andl yourselves new york city is our home, not a playground for your misplaced anger. and although we have no specific threats, people like marjorie taylor greene, who is known to spread misinformation and hate speech, she stated she's coming to town, while you're in town, be on your best behavior >> as reality catches up to trump in manhattan, it's far from his only legal problem. the probe in georgia could be the next shoe to drop. a source familiar told nbc news fani willis' office is watching how things unfold in manhattan and while trump did not testify in that investigation, the a.p. notes the grand jury there didn't foreclose the possibility
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of charges against him with that case being particularly challenging for him since his actions were so public in the meantime, in special counsel jack smith's investigation into trump's retention of classified documents at mar-a-lago, according to "the washington post," the justice department has uncovered new evidence pointing to possible obstruction, writing that investigators now suspect based on witness statements security camera footage, and other documentary evidence that boxes including classified material were moved from a mar-a-lago storage area after the subpoena was served, and that trump personally examined at least some of those boxes. despite all his legal peril, trump's republican supporters and even his potential 2024 opponents are still sounding like it's 2016, defending the maga cult leader with that particular combination of fake outrage and terror that we have all come to know is not to respect. >> it feels obvious to a lot of us that it's politically
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motivated. it's personally motivated. >> it's one thing when you have a cancel culture it's another when you have a cancel criminal justice system >> now he turned around, purely for political purposes, and indicts a former president on misdemeanor offenses that they're straining to try to convert into felonies. that is when you know that the law has been weaponized for political purposes >> we're going to have to look at the appropriations process and limit funds going to some of these agencies, particularly the ones engaged in the most egregious behavior >> so the doj and fbi? >> yeah. >> joining me now, joyce vance, former u.s. attorney, professor at the university of alabama school of law and msnbc legal analyst, and michael steele, former rnc chair, msnbc political analyst, and host of the michael steele podcast i will add to that sea of people who are super angry about trump's viktor orban, the prime
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minister of hungary, who tweeted support, keep on fighting, mr. president, we are with you donald trump can count on viktor orban, as well as the american viktor orban in florida. i want to go to you, joyce we finally did get an answer to the question we kind of didn't know the answer to this is when cy vance said on "meet the press," the reason there was no prosecution of trump on the state charges that he's now potentially fashing, because again, we haven't seen this indictment, is he was asked not to by the doj. and that they were asked to put on hold. let me play it one more time this is cy vance talking about what barr asked him to do. >> we learned from the southern district of new york that they asked us to stand down and by stand down, i mean they were communicating that they had this ongoing investigation and they wished that we put our efforts on hold while they completed their investigation. and so for the course of probably more than a year and a
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half, that's what we did i was surprised after michael cohen pleaded guilty that the investigation from the southern district on that issue did not go forward >> joyce vance, that sounds pretty clearly like barr played the averages, prosecuted michael cohen but somehow got trump out of trouble >> it is even worse when you put it together with reporting that suggests that barr also forbade prosecutors in the southern district of new york to continue the investigation after cohen, because all of this adds up to barr telling both federal and state prosecutors that they couldn't go after the former president, couldn't continue to investigate, then barr has a lot of questions to answer and needs to do that in a public forum fairly promptly. >> michael, it kind of messes up the narrative of all the people that are screaming in the republican party, because it was barr who prosecuted michael
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cohen on the same facts. but now they're saying how dare this local prosecutor on the same facts indict or the grand jury indict this guy >> exactly, in fact, if we recall, not only did they not whine and wail and gnash their teeth at the prosecution of michael cohen, they in some circles applauded it because the belief was he would be the fall guy. he would be the quintessential fall guy, take the wrap, be the good doobie and fold for trump when he didn't in the end, this turned on him. here they find themselves in this unenviable position to look at how you justify the same set of facts, have one person go to jail and another person you're willing to defend to the hilt, who not only paid for it, but ordered it ordered the guy, cohen to go and
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do it in the first place i don't think michael cohen on his own would just go out and grab $130,000 to pay a porn star, unless he was directed to do so by, i don't know, donald trump. this is the reality for a lot of these republicans right now. but of course, we don't live in that reality we live -- they live on earth 2, we're on earth 1, where we have the counsel and guidance of individuals like joyce vance who keep us focused on the rule of law and the fact patterns, and then you have what the republicans are doing, which is trying to distort all of that. we want to do the show, we're going to go out and do the dog and pony for trump, and muddle the waters as much as possible >> right the clown show will continue with marjorie greene, who you know, somehow found herself on "60 minutes" is now coming to whip up the circus act in new york city. she's going to find she might not like new york. new yorkers aren't really here for that kind of nonsense. don't try that, that mess
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doesn't go down well in new york city, marge. let me go back to barr for a second, joyce, because he seems to want to have it both ways he says i'm not donald trump's attorney, but you were when you were attorney general, mr. barr. and he also has said he wouldn't advise him to get on the stand because trump essentially is a blabbermouth he can't stop talking and he won't be able to control himself. he says he has zero self control. a broken clock is right once a day. here is donald trump displaying his complete lack of self control, and i just want you to anticipate him as a witness, not just in this case necessarily, but in general, because there are multiple cases he could be in theory dealing with here he is with his friend sean hannity. >> i can't imagine you ever saying bring me some of the boxes that we brought back from the white house, i would like to look at them did you ever do that >> i would have to right to do that there's nothing wrong with it. >> i don't think you would do it >> i don't have a lot of time, but i would do that. >> let me move on. >> remember this, this is the
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presidential records act i have the right to take stuff do you know that they ended up paying richard nixon i think $18 million for what he had. >> i mean, joyce, this is in the case that might be the most troublesome for him in terms of stealing classified documents and having them under his bed in mar-a-lago he's like, i have the right to do that. i can do that. i can take those things. they're mine can you imagine him on the stand in this case if i wanted to date a porn star, i have the right to do that. is that what we're looking for to if i wanted to pay her, can't i pay her? this guy can't control himself >> i did not know you could do such a spot-on imitation of the former president, joy. i'm delighted to learn that. this is the last statement here that's the kicker, when he says richard nixon got $18 million. and all of a sudden we're seeing the motive trump thought that someone was going to pay him money to return all the classified documents that he took this clip is a great example of
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why donald trump can never take the witness stand and should never be on television, frankly. i'm sure jack smith is just enjoying that clip no end. it's essentially a confession. trump on the witness stand in the manhattan d.a.'s case would certainly be interesting because the problem donald trump has is he can't resist temptation he always has to go one up, and he has that fatal flaw that you sometimes see in a defendant as a witness where they think that they're the smartest guy in the room and it never plays well for them it's in some ways very painful to see a defendant try to do that so no, he can't be a witness bill barr knows it it's worth pointing out this is the same bill barr who now criticizing his former boss, but when he resigned in december just before the end of the administration, talked about what an honor it had been to serve, and donald trump's many important accomplishments.
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look, all of these folk who were around trump, they're responsible for this spectacle that the country is enduring now. >> indeed, and michael, when you think about the republicans are in abject fear of this guy and running around defending him, he could have to testify in the e. jean carroll case, in this case, where he cannot stand up to the credibility of stormy daniels who is the one with the receipts, and michael cohen, also with receipts the classified documents, he's already seemingly admitted he wanted to sell them for money. io could go on and on and on he's facing a blizzard of potential legal cases. can republicans sustain this level of pretend outrage for all of them? are they going to have to recycle the same defense over and over and over again? >> yes, they'll recycle the same defenses over and ever again they will put a new spin on it if they have to. they will do what is necessary to forestall as much of this litigation as possible
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the play is not a complicated one, joy it is to rally around and build the wall of protection and to push forward in such a way that this thing gets past the november 2024 election, at which point donald trump gets re-elected president and there's nothing further that can be done so that's the game plan. that's the strategy. you have seen the numbers over the weekend. on the heels of this, for trump go up, he's now over 51% desantis just a little footnote for you, your numbers are dropping again i don't know what to tell you, boy, but that's where you are. and this only moves further in that direction so there's going -- this is going to be devised to create the wedge narratively and rhetorically as well as politically for this president, former president and now indicted felon, and
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we'll see what comes of it but that's the game plan and just one quick last point. on the whole thing that joyce was just addressing, about putting trump on the stand the other problem is, his lawyers told him he couldn't take the documents his lawyers told him what the presidential record act required and maintained so he can't even give a good ignorance defense. right? because his lawyers told him over and over. >> and i will note that he has some new lawyers who are serious litigators, hopefully some of that money if he really did raise $4 million, because he does tend to embellish, went up to them in front get paid in advance. get your money up front. joyce vance and michael steele, thank you. up next on "the reidout," trump's strategy for fighting this indictment is coming into focus and it feels disturbingly familiar "the reidout" continues after
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. i have great respect for you. i have great respect for your tenacity, for the fact that you just don't give up but rod, you're fired. >> that was donald trump firing former illinois democratic governor rod blagojevich on the apprentice, the show that duped millions of americans into thinking trump was a good businessman and presidential
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material you know, such a serious show that the reason blue goy vch was fired is because he got his harry potter facts wrong blago's role was notable because he had been charged with plotting to auction off barack obama's former senate seat in illinois he blatantly used the show to rehab his image ahead of his trial, saying on the premiere that he's doing that show because, quote, i have been wronged and maliciously accused of things i didn't do. despite there being literal tapes of him doing the things. trump later said he felt badly for the former governor, when he was districted at that time, blagojevich had mostly lost the support of the democratic party it was similar when detroit's democratic mayor kwame kilpatrick got indicted for lying about covering up an affair and subsequently obstructing justice. with democrats distancing themselves to the extent he wasn't even invited to the dnc convention nothing like the partisan furor we're witnessing from republicans over trump's
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indictment trump wound out commuting both men's sentences calling blagojevich's sentence unfair. trump knows full well he's not the only elected official who has ever been indicted but he is doing what he's best at, creating a spectacle by turning his looming arraignment into his newest reality show this morning, we watched trump's car head to the airport in florida. alao.j. simpson's slow speed chase, following trackers following his plane's moves to escorts to the trump tower trump heads to the courthouse tomorrow when his arraignment is over, he'll fly back to florida. i'm not making this up, and deliver an address to the nation on his, quote, political persecution. joining me now is omarosa manigualt newman, and tim o'brien, senior executive editor atbloomberg opinion and an msnbc political analyst.
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omarosa, thank you for being here you have the unique position of having both been on the apprentice and really, i would argue, probably being the star of the apprentice, the star cast member on the apprentice and also working in trump's white house. what do you make, as somebody who knows this man, of his strategy there's a guardian report that even his mugshot, that there will be a mugshot, and trump has actually asked whether his team could print said mugshot on t-shirts that could serve as a rallying motif for his supporters your thoughts? >> well, first of all, thank you for having me on, joy. i want to mark that it's 20 years from when we first arrived at trump tower, and the first time i rode on that trump plane that we shot the apprentice, so it's very, very appropriate that you started out with that clip of the apprentice. but in terms of donald trump and the spectacle, donald wants to make everybody think he's being persecuted, that someone is doing something wrong to him and that he has done absolutely
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nothing wrong in this case but finally, donald trump is facing something he's never faced, joy, and that's accountability and yes, he is going to try to pivot and distract and make you all think he's not upset or nervous, but donald trump is terrified. and i can just certainly tell by his tell tale signs, his expression on his face, he doesn't look well. so no matter what he's saying out of his mouth, he is terrified. >> yeah, you and michael cohen have said the same thing he's trying to play it big, and tim, he's using his minions to play it big for him. right? to sort of make this pretense that he's unbothered hogan ghibli, one of theop pfol who disgraced himselves publicly to be a sycophant to trump, this is in quotes, we will have a mugshot, for the record, it will be the most manly, most masculine, most handsome mugshot of all time. he said he was joking. i can say that definitely before
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having seen it he has to say, his people have to say things like that to buck him up, but come on. >> you know, joy, before i give you a serious answer to that serious question, i want to note that i think in the previous segment, you channeled donald trump for the first time we have been doing this for seven or eight years and i think that might be the first time you have channeled donald trump live you saying a christmas carol to me once off camera, that was like five years ago, but i don't remember you ever doing donald trump. you should make a note, a chapter has been opened that we can't look back. >> let me preview my reality show in my own time and space, tim. my variety show is coming up soon there will be song and dance >> you know, omarosa got it, some of this, and it's part of my response to your question, which is donald trump has an incredibly cinematic sense of himself. he thinks of himself constantly as the star, the director, the producer, and the script writer of his own movie
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and because of that, he always wants to be in control he wants to be in control of his image. he wants to be in control of the process. and the people around him that kiss up to him the most effectively play to that they play to his vanity, they play to his insecurities about his masculinity. and i think that's why this is such a dangerous actually position for him to be in, including one that i do think is scaring him, because he's not in control of the circumstances under which he's going to be paraded in front of the public they are humiliating circumstances. the legal process at least on this case has now drawn to one of its first conclusions and he's not in control of that any longer so he's going to go to his two defaults he's going to try to pretend that he's feeling something he isn't, which i do think he's afraid and he's unsure, because he's also slogging through a tar pit
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of other lawsuits that are coming at him. and i think he's going to default to violence. he's going to inseptember people to rise up in his name, so this cartoonish buffoonery that surrounds him has some very real dangers embedded in it i think we have to watch for that and his enablers aren't just boris epstein and hogan ghiblis of the world they're members of the republican party as well marjorie taylor greene and jim jordans, and there's a real failure in leadership right now within the gop to call him out on the attacks he is launching against specific institutions, including the courts >> and including, omarosa, this d.a. it just so happens two out of the three prosecutors, three out of the four, actually, if you include the state a.g. in new york, are african american and you know, we have talked about this before. his strange place on race. so he's got that obvious place
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to attack. and obviously, his misogyny. stormy daniels has already owned him on social media, talking about the scale of what he's bringing to the table, let's put it that way, and it being a tiny scale. there's so much to mock about him that's there for the late night shows, you know, this is going to be rough, whether his supporters are loud in support of him or not. >> but remember, at first it was hillary. the lock her up. then it was the democrats. they're all coming after me. now he has this bogeyman he can dangle in front of his supporters attorney bragg is coming after me, the judge is coming after me, the entire justice system, it's unfair and it's coming after me and donald is at his best when he's in the corner and gets to kind of fight back, and that's why he's reveling in this. this is his court. he's like a pig in mud all of us are watching it, we're disgusted, but he's enjoying all of this attention.
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and it really does say something that we all are watching donald trump profit off of a criminal procedure. i, too, don't believe he raised $4 million, but the fact that he is looking to grift off of a criminal procedure is just unhinged >> absolutely. it's shameful. shameful for the entire country. but here we are. omarosa, tim, thank you both very much. and still ahead, ron desantis' latest attempts to hijack florida's legislative agenda to boost his own presidential ambitions, with no regard, zero regard for floridians' health, happiness, or safety we'll be right back. it's a smart hearing solution that makes hearing aids more convenient and less expensive. it connects with your phone so you can stream calls and music. with jabra enhance select, better hearing doesn't have to start in a doctor's office. it starts with a free online hearing test you can take almost anywhere,
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you may recall that one of the first targets in florida governor ron desantis' crusade against the right's fake bogeyman version of wokeness before books, drag brunch, and black history was disney world seizing control of the company's oversight board to punish disney for its ceo speaking out against the don't say gay law. desantis has now ordered an investigation into disney's stealth move to side step the state takeover a sidestep that was pretty brilliant frankly. the outgoing board stripped the new board of significant authority until the last air of the current king of england passes away. the rub, charles' youngest heir happens to be princess lilibet,
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the biracial daughter of prince harry and duchess meghan fact that must gall america's most performatively bigoted governor disney's chief executive bob iger blasted desantis as antibusiness and antiflorida for his continued push for control desantis is battling the magic kingdom to tally conservative victories ahead of a likely bid for the republican presidential nomination but it isn't just mickey mouse he wants under state control today, the florida senate passed a desantis backed abortion ban, prohibiting the procedure after six weeks before most women even know they're pregnant. also today, a week after a nashville school shooting left six people dead, desantis legalized carrying concealed weapons without a permit the gun shine state strikes again. and joining me now is florida state senator chevron jones, and senator jones, thank you for being here i want to go through some of this this election -- desantis is
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kind of going all out. he's doing the most, as the young people say, to try to notch all of these right-wing victories. he hasn't been able to fully cow disney, but he is trying to fully cow women. this six-week abortion ban has gone into place. this permitless carry. what has been the reaction on the ground >> well, the reaction has been exactly what we see now. we see advocates all over the state of florida who are now in talla tallahassee, and truth be told, republicans are not serious about les government they're working overtime to be the teachers, the parents, and professors, and they want to control businesses, what happens in the bedroom and what happens in the doctor's offices. while they are doing these extreme policies that are really attacking americans' rights and making us less safe, the democrats are focused on the right issues within the state of florida. you just talked about the six-week abortion ban. the permless carry bill that we
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just passed on friday. all of these things that are happening in florida are not making us safer. they're making us less safe. they call us the free state of florida. it's not the free state of florida at all >> let me ask you about this ability to carry permitless carry. we see literally students are in the streets in tennessee and you have three legislatures, three state legislators who are being threatened with expulsion for standing with them there are huge protests going on in tennessee march for our lives originated in florida after parkland. hot has been the reaction of those young activists? because you know, i can only imagine the mix of florida's tourism economy, beaches, places like disney, where apparently you're not allowed to bring firearms can disney maintain its prohibition on firearms inside disney world given this new law?
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>> well, disney, a lot of the business communities were very vocal about permitless carry and how unsafe it is if you want to ask really what young people are doing now, the young people are raising their voices just right now outside of the capitol, there are a group of young people in front of city hall right now at 7:30 p.m., and they're raising their voices whether or not the bill has passed or not, gen z is showing us one thing, they will not sit back and allow government just to continue to roll over and do what they want to do even today in the senate, while people say it was inappropriate, listen, they're raising their voices in different ways they stood up and made it clear, if you don't want an abortion, don't get one. they just kept chanting different things of course, they shut the senate chambers down, but listen, these young people are very clear what's happening, and i promise you, they will be the ones voting in the upcoming election. >> well, theoretically, because there also is a new anti-voter
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bill dropping as of today. can you please explain this bill because it looks like republicans are trying to basically pull a wisconsin and make sure that they cannot be voted out and they cannot be punished by voters talk about this new voter bill that's dropping today. >> here's what i will tell you it just dropped at 2:00 p.m. today. and it's up tomorrow in ethics and elections. we don't know the gist of the bill one thing that we do know is that they give the discretion to the supervisor of elections, if they see any inconsistency in voting or see any voter fraud, they have the ability to report it directly to the election police the real question is, when is enough enough? after the election, they said that florida is where we have the safest, fairest elections. now, all of a sudden, we're going into year two where they want to change our election laws this is the constant, the push
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against democracy that we're continuing to see in florida, because they can't win fairly. so the only way to win is by doing things like that changing the voting laws, making it harder for individuals to vote it's not democracy at all. i think we all can agree on that >> it's interesting to see florida turn into a state where it's basically abortion is banned, students are told what to say, teachers are told what they're allowed to teach, and companies like disney are told what they're allowed to say. there is no freedom in this supposedly free state of florida, other than freedom to get covid. florida state senator chevron jones, thank you very much up next, a look at tomorrow's hugely consequential and hugely expensive election for wisconsin's supreme court, with voting rights and women's reproductive rights on the line. back in a second helps restore gum health, and rehardens enamel. i'm a big advocate of recommending things that i know work. type 2 diabetes?
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ahhhh... with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary. spray flonase sensimist daily for non-drowsy, long lasting relief in a scent-free, gentle mist. (psst psst) flonase. all good. . for better or wurx, many eyes will be on center street in lower manhattan tomorrow for what is an historic moment, the arraignment of a former u.s. president. something arguably more consequential for women in this country and a huge dest for our democracy will be happening hundreds of miles away, with borders in wisconsin dividi hundreds of miles away, with borders in wisconsin divicide whoog will control the state's supreme court. the majority will weigh in on critical issues including a challenge to the state's pre-several war abortion ban challenges to wisconsin's republican drawn redistricting map, union busting, and any
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legal challenges to the next presidential election. to say that the stakes could not be higher is not hyperbole the state has a democratic governor, tony evers, and a democratic legislature that is well entrinched given wisconsin is one of the most gerrymandered states in the country. the gigz of power means state issues are essentially at a stalemate. the only way to get anything done is through the state judicial system. in 2020, the wisconsin supreme court tossed trump's objections to the outcome of the election but they have not backed away from republican attempts to disenfranchise voters. since the 2020 election, the conservative majority has favored more restrictive voter measures like eliminating the use of absentee voter drop boxes. races are officially nonpartisan, but milwaukee county judge janet is backed by the democrats while the republicans back dan kelly kelly previously served on the wisconsin supreme court,
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appointed by republican governor scott walker back in 2016. but he lost his election bid in 2020 since then, financial documents show that kelly has aligned himself with the most extreme aspects of the republican party. and idealogical groups kelly provided legal counsel to wisconsin right to life, an anti-abortion group that has endorsed his campaign. in february, the milwaukee journal sentinel reported he was paid $100,000 by the republican party for, quote, election integrity issues he helped advise the wisconsin republican party on how they could overturn the 2020 election by appointing fake presidential electors and it doesn't stop there. he's campaigned with a well known maga influencer who helped organize several stop the steal rallies and was on the capitol grounds during the insurrection. kelly called his help invaluable kelly also spoke at an event that was attended by a pastor
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who described the murder of an abortion provider as justifiable homicide and has supported the creation of anti-abortion focused militia. and after the break, how the winner of tomorrow's election could make or break the state for years to come. stay right there voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪ ♪ what is it about the first warm breeze of the season that makes you feel lighter than air? ♪ no matter where you are... when it crosses your path... you'll feel compelled to take to the road and see where it leads. ♪ the first step begins at the lincoln spring sales event. going on now, for a limited time. (bright music) - [announcer] what if there is a hearing aid that could keep up with you?
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whenever heartburn strikes, get fast relief with tums. its time to love food back. ♪tum, tum tum tum, tums♪ [ ominous music playing ] its timehere we go!od back. level up your speed. mario! yea! [ screaming ] introducing the xfinity 10g network. super fast internet today. with even faster speeds tomorrow. woo-hoo! >> i've also been very clear
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making no promises to you. but i can't tell you that if m opponent is elected, i can tel you with one hunted percen certainty, that 1849 abortio ban will stay on the books >> there seems to be a pattern for you, janet, just - so, you don't know what i' thinking about that abortion ban. you have no idea >> and we actually do know how dan kelly, candidate for wisconsin supreme court woul rule, because he told an nbc affiliate in wisconsin that he would allow at the pre-civil war ban on abortion to stand because, quote, it i consistent with th constitution tomorrow, we will find out i wisconsin voters are willing t take that chance, and hand him a gavel for one of the mos consequential seats on the wisconsin supreme court. joining me now is congresswoma gwen moore of wisconsin an michelle goldberg, columnist for the new york times and a msnbc political analyst. she recently profiled the race for the new york times
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and i will start with you, michelle your piece was very extensive, and it explained mr. kelly ver well how extreme is this guy? >> well, look, he was named in the january 6th, and in one of the depositions, wisconsin republican party officials sai that he was part of extensiv discussions about this fak electors scheme. he is about, as you said, he's been campaigning with, you know, somebody with a pastor who calls will, calls the murder o abortion doctors justifiable homicide he's been campaigning with a stop the steal activist. he is, you know, kind of a far-right as you can get and i spoke to people who ha served with him on the wisconsin supreme court, and they were pretty unvarnished i their attempt for him, and i the certainty that he will vot
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right down the line with the republican party at every step and i think it's worth pointin out that although the wisconsi supreme court did throw out th challenge to the 2020 election they did so by one vote, right there were three people alread on the supreme court who are willing to disenfranchis voters, and essentiall overturn the 2020 election so, you know, kind of democrac is by no means assured in 2024 >> and representative moore, you've been very open an talked about the issue o abortion that is personal to you, and that you've had a experience that makes this a personal issue for you but i wonder, you know, ho personally wisconsin voters, those in your district, thos who you're talking to on the ground, i mean, it's hard to get people to come out for a april election, you know i think they made it off her in this way for a reason, to produce low turnout. are people focused on this race? >> listen, thank you all, than
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you, good to see you, michelle and thank you, joy absolutely, because it's not just the right to abortion which is very, very important, but it is the right to a fai trial and a fair justice you guys have made great point but the real point that i want to do to make is that he jus seems to be a good old boy for the grand old party, you know, he's willing to support thes fake electors, and so, the abortion ban, the lack of th access to the ballot, lack the ability to have fair political lines, this is reall a threat to democracy, not onl in wisconsin, but around the country, which is why you've seen this be a nationwid campaign in the fight to reall define whether or not we are going to have a judiciary that is impartial
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you know, this isn't suppose to be a non partisan race, but it is certainly not. this is a main, main stall wor of a candidate of the gop. >> and, you know, michelle, on of the things i got out of you piece, is, i mean, the gerrymandering of wisconsi from scott walker on, ha really created minority rule i the state. you know, the states majorit is overwhelmingly in favor o abortion being illegal they can't have that with supreme court. the gerrymandering means tha republicans have more contro than they got votes, in term of the percentages, and it could just have this lock on the state, trying to disempowe the democratic governor to not allow the governor to exercise the powers people acted hi for. i mean, talk about how thi state and the results coul radiate outside of wisconsin i 2024 >> well, yes, like you said, wisconsin has been a pioneer i minority rule, both after scot walker was elected, there was set of extremely gerrymandered maps now they have since adopte even more gerrymandered maps b
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order of the current supreme court. and so, according to one analysis that i quoted democrats would have to win by more than 12 points to take bare majority at the legislature. so, republicans have basically locked it up, and a couple o years ago, when the wisconsin, wisconsinites elected democratic but governor and democratic attorney general, this republican legislatur very quickly voted to strict not all of their powers, but strict many of their powers. that was also upheld by this current supreme court. so, this has let the one election that could undo the republican, the decades long republican lock on power i wisconsin, and restore democracy, which would mea that, you know, in the state that's evenly split, lik wisconsin is, you have alterations of power - >> and representative more they train that is never lat is attempting to suppress th black vote that's happening now the right is throwin
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accusations against the woma candidate, janet protasiewicz, trying to claim that she use the n-word as if republicans main concern and the world's people using the n-word. you know, as if they're just heartsick over that possibility. is the african community focused on the goal here and not standing to fall for that kind of thing >> well, listen, we know tha this was an active desperation on the part of republicans t win this election. i'm even close to accusing the of planning the bad weathe we're expecting to hav tomorrow - [laughter] but, you know, seriously, i' looking at this with the sam sort of seriousness that peopl are looking at, illegal acts o netanyahu or israel, or georgia, you know, this is a problem fo our democracy nationwide
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