you're seeing house gop efforts to designate the cartels as foreign terrorists which would in theory potentially give the u.s. military the ability to do things that we're not currently doing, but also ken cuccinelli who helped draft a paper on how to go after mexican drug cartels is supporting ron desantis you have nikki haley and other republican candidates talking about how to utilize potentially the u.s. military to deal with the cartels. >> seems unlikely but i'm sure this is not the last conversation we will have on this topic margarita leaf thank you for joining us thanks for getting up way too early on this historic tuesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. our message is clear and simple, control yourselves new york city is our home, not a playground for your misplaced anger. although we have no specific threats, people like marjorie

taylor greene who is known to spread misinformation and hate speech, she stated she's coming to town. while you are in town be on your best behavior. >> okay, then, new york city mayor eric adams -- >> control yourself. >> -- just going right there with that warning ahead of a historic day in manhattan. donald trump, former president, will become the first former president to face criminal charges. we will get a live report from outside the courthouse in just a moment meanwhile, there is new reporting this morning on how the manhattan grand jury is impacting the fulton county da's investigation into election interference in georgia. also ahead, we will break down what is at stake today in wisconsin as voters head to the polls for an election that many are calling the most consequential in decades. >> that is a huge state supreme court race that has national

implications regarding gerrymandering, regarding -- just the laws of that state, which has become the most consequential swing state along with michigan and pennsylvania in america. >> we will fully look into that. it is also a historic day in europe in a few hours finland officially joins nato. >> oh, my gosh. >> a major move that strengthens the alliance and deals a huge setback to russian president vladimir putin. >> i would have -- i would have loved to hear your dad's comments on that. >> oh, my god. >> it's unbelievable. >> i would love to hear everything he has to say on ukraine as well which he wrote about in that book with david ignatius a lot of concerns about goading russia years ago. >> that's a guy that spent his entire life pushing back on russian aggression. >> absolutely. >> willie, a lot to talk about i have a lot to talk about regarding the oj chase that was shown on tv for 12 hours

yesterday. >> yeah. >> we will get to basketball first, but i'm afraid i'm going to have to say something about that, but uconn, man, they just -- just dominant. >> yeah. >> just a dominant team the last four games. >> they beat san diego state last night to win the national championship 76-59 was the final. they struggled at the beginning of the game and then kind of rolled through the rest of it. got a little bit close at the end but they pulled away they won every game of this tournament by double digits. it really was never in doubt a team that was great for almost all of the season except for a stretch in january, but beyond that they were just incredible a balanced team, great defense, great passing, a great coach dan hurley to stamps his legacy on the legacy at uconn. the fifth national championship in uconn's school history. they are built to last they will be around for a while with this group recruiting and this coach, uconn are the national champions of college

hoops. >> a big win jonathan lemire, along with a dominant uconn basketball huskies of course you have to look at the red sox starting pitching and just ask yourself has there ever been a more dominant stretch at the beginning of the season than what the red sox have put on the last -- the last four days it's just breathtaking. >> taking a look at the new england sports scene here, joe, and very different outcomes. uconn -- growing up -- connecticut, this is a nowhere place, not known for their sports program, but men's and women's teams have become the most dominant forces on both sides. congrats to them as far as the red sox goes, man, every starting pitcher out there has just been lit up the bats have been alive, they've managed to win two of their first four, yesterday against a pretty terrible pirates team, maybe the worst offense in the lead, blew an

early lead, gave up seven runs and took a pretty disheartening run. i don't want to say it's too soon to panic but i don't want to say it's not too soon to panic. >> it's april 4th. >> it may be time. >> jonathan brought up stores, connecticut, this is not a nothing place, the cows would disagree as well as the students of uconn i spent a lot of time in stores, i covered the uconn women back in the days of rebecca lobo and even dressed up as a uconn fan with face paint and everything and did a story for channel 3 eyewitness news on what it's like to be a husky fan. >> okay. well, we want to see that clip. >> roll tape. >> no. absolutely not >> we have to pull the tape. we also should pull the tape of the o.j. chase and do a split screen with the trump arrival in new york. >> joe has an issue with the plane. >> i do. listen, i say this knowing,

first of all, that everybody at every network i'm sure they do the best they can do and you make a judgment call when it's live and, you know, we of course made so many mistakes in the 2015 and 2016, so we say that with all too much knowledge of how much trump manipulates the news cycles, just as he did when he put out a tweet a couple of sundays ago that the entire world chased for a couple of weeks. well, yesterday we saw trump ace pl -- trump's plane landing at laguardia for what looked like 20 minutes it was a shot that looked like space shuttle challenger or something like that or columbia returning. we were on it, every network was on it forever and then it lands and we are on the trump plane. we gave the guy, willie, i would guess 40 to $50 million of

earned media and we saw bag annual handlers, we saw people walking on and off the plane while on top of it everybody is just saying things that we all know. >> like president biden was traveling places too. >> exactly go to the video. say, do you know what, trump is landing in new york. when we have a shot of him we'll go to the video and have him walking off the plane. seriously, i will say i went out to jack's baseball game and you will be glad to know jack 2 for 3. >> there we go. >> i forgot to ask. >> and his team -- oh, his team just rolled. they were playing a championship game today. >> amazing >> very excited. but everybody out there, whether they were trump supporters, whether they were desantis supporters, a lot of desantis supporters, whether they were biden supporters they were all making fun of the networks for staying on trump's plane and they all looked at me and said didn't you guys learn anything

from 2016? and this even coming from trump supporters who are laughing, going, it was just outrageous. we saw baggage handlers for 30 minutes. do you know what trump is doing while that's going on? we will have lemire jump in in a second he has the tv screens up he goes i'm just going to stay here because they're showing my plane, they're showing my logo. >> absolutely. >> they're showing the american flag and i am trouncing everybody in earned media and it's not costing me a dime. >> well, you're right, it all starts with the tweet, completely invented that he was going to be arrested he said it will be tuesday, raises a ton of money off that begins his martyrdom, begins the story line that he's being persecuted politically and for the next two weeks that story is fed and his lead grows over ron desantis in the polls and republicans coalesce around him, rush in to defend. even ron desantis who is potentially going to run against him is defending him out in

public he's pulling the strings on everybody. >> crazy. >> you're right, joe, today is historic we've never seen this. a former president of the united states will be processed as a criminal defendant he's going to go in and get fingerprinted, he might get a mugshot, we don't know yet this is a big deal, it's extraordinary, it's news what it isn't is the reality show that he has created for himself and too many people have fed up to leading up to today which is every second of his day documented we're hearing this morning he might take fifth avenue to the courthouse, it might be park av avenue, it might be madison, stay with us to see how he gets down to the courthouse today is a huge deal but the play lewd, the lead up, the story donald trump created with that first tweet continued yesterday. >> of course, you would take the fdr drive but you can't have onlookers on the fdr if he islooking to create a spectacle you head down the middle of manhattan. to joe's point that would happen all the time when the traveling press pool would be with trump

on his old campaign plane or air force one where he would idle, have the tv on, usually fox news and he would watch the coverage of the plane he would even talk to people next to him like there is the plane. he would marvel over that and how he would gain attention. air force one, when the presidential aircraft touches down that's not newsworthy we can debate on yesterday, the coverage of it, but this is what he's already done. he has completely taken up all of the oxygen in the political field, particularly on the republican side. to willie's point already getting pledges of loyalty from his potential opponents there who dare not criticize him and only criticize the manhattan da. we've seen his poll numbers go up, his fundraising go up and we do see the media potentially making some of the mistakes it made in 2016 we need to be doing a better job, all of us, going forward as he now enters -- not just as a presidential candidate, willie,

he's a presidential candidate who has been criminally indicted, he will be arraigned as of this afternoon and let's not forget he is also an insurrectionist candidate and still has not admit he lost the last race. >> madison is uptown, forgive me on that. let's talk about what is happening today, this is something we have never seen before as the new york post is putting it this morning it is the day of the don a former president of the united states, donald trump, is going toe stand before a judge and hear charges against him. >> he's not going to get the cuffs, it's important he is not getting cuffed he is getting the kid glove treatment of what this would be. he is getting to go at his appointed time, he's going early before the hearing he could have done this over zoom, but that wouldn't be as good of a show so he really is recreating the trump show with this arrest --

with turning himself in. it's just a repeat of the reality show and it's a story. i actually -- you know, i'm torn on how to cover this because it is news, it is huge news, it's all that people want to talk about. people don't want to talk about the tornadoes that are ravaging one half of the country, they want to talk about the ex-president having to go for his day in court. >> and, joe, donald trump was summoned to the courthouse, we are not sure if he actually could have done it over zoom and we don't know what kind of exposure he will get in the courtroom. they say no cameras except for still cameras, but surely we will get some kind of images out of that room today. >> there was a rolling from rolling stone, it will be a great question to ask da bragg whether trump could have done this over zoom or not, again, only a single-source story from rolling stone right now. but that's a good question to ask da bragg this is a critically important story, it's the first time a president has been indicted and

it's -- >> we have to cover it. >> it's something that needs to be covered it's extraordinarily important, but doing three hours of hero shots and if he walks down to the courthouse, seriously anybody that takes that live is just -- you need to report in kind contributions to the donald trump campaign against ron desantis because you're just providing hero shots for a guy that's going to get indicted do what you do normally, get him going into the courthouse, get him going out of the courthouse. it doesn't have to be the o.j. bronco chase and that's what we had yesterday and i hope it's not what we have today the story should be covered, all right, but the story should be covered not donald trump's setup setting you up. >> right. >> which, again -- again, we have been criticized a lot for our coverage in 2015 and 2016. we take that on our shoulders. we learned from it and i would

hope the immediate. would learn from it, too showing every prime time presser, every prime time this, every prime time -- no and they certainly -- again, it was just -- i couldn't believe what i was seeing on tv yesterday and i'm hoping today they've learned from yesterday that if he does a glory walk down broadway that it's not covered for three hours. >> right so what you're talking about is the hour walk or the hour car drive down to the courthouse you know, back to my days in local news, you always -- >> i'm talking about the circus. >> -- walking into the courthouse and walking out, you see if they say something. you're talking about the drawn out, you know, step by step, the car making the red light that's ridiculous. >> i'm talking about the circus as he has brought to town as the new york post says if he's going to do a circus that's his business, fine, but people don't need to be covering

every step of the circus get him walking in, walking out. >> the plan for the day, joining us from the manhattan courthouse is nbc news national correspondent gabe gutierrez how do we expect today to unfold >> reporter: good morning. you mentioned the circus-like atmosphere, that is what donald trump's legal team argued in a court filing for why they did not want cameras in the courtroom. well, guess what, the circus-like atmosphere is already here there is tons of assembled media here, i can hear the helicopter buzzing in the distance and i have seen driving here flashing lights, a huge security presence, you can see the steel barricades here all in preparation for this spectacle that we are expecting later this morning. now, you mentioned overnight, the judge ruling that cameras would not be allowed inside the courtroom except for still cameras right before the arraignment. a group of photographers will be allowed to snap still photographers briefly. also cameras will be allowed in

the 15th floor, in the hallway, but unclear how clear of a shot we will get of the former president. now, in terms of a timetable, former president trump is expected to drive from trump tower down here to lower manhattan sometime between 10:00 a.m. and noon and this arraignment is scheduled for 2:15 what will happen is that he will be fingerprinted and processed inside the building behind me. we understand, however, that he will not get a dna swab and it's unclear at this point whether there will be a mugshot. it looks like that will not be the case but the arraignment at 2:15, afterwards he is set to depart, then, to mar-a-lago where he's set to deliver remarks later tonight. in terms of security, mika, i heard you play part of eric adams' remarks in your introduction warning protesters to control themselves. he said marjorie taylor greene is scheduled to headline a protest here right in front of the courthouse about 10:30 this

morning. the nypd on very high alert because the district attorney's office has gotten so many threats over the past couple of weeks, but so far we have not seen any large protests materialize. there were some crowds as the former president left mar-a-lago yesterday, but so far none of that support at least so far here in lower manhattan. again, we are awaiting that arraignment at 2:15 this afternoon, mika and joe. >> nbc's gabe gutierrez, thank you very much. >> and of course 2:15, again, that will be history. >> yeah. >> that will be history. that should be covered, not donald trump like flying in on an airplane for 30 minutes and us watching baggage handlers for 30 minutes while it's affixed on his plane and he has set us all up like fools again. let's bring in nbc news national affairs correspondent and co-host of "the circus" john heilemann also senior fbi official chuck rosenberg he is an nbc news analyst. chuck, we will get to you in one

second i want to go to the guy that has a show called "the circus" and ask you about the circus that played out yesterday on news channels everywhere. >> yeah, i mean, joe, i heard you guys talking -- i heard you talk about this and i couldn't agree with you more and then the general sentiments expressed it's an interesting thing, one of the most inspiring things, i think, if you listen to the legal -- the great legal minds who are explaining to us what's happening this weekend and what -- not just the importance of this, the unprecedented nature of it, but also how it's going to play out is this constant refrain of donald trump is going to have to come to -- surrender himself, he's going to be arraigned, he's going to sit in front of a judge today and he's going to be treated people say over and over again just like any other citizen who faces similar charges. that's the standard we aspire to that he is no higher or lower than anybody else. the former president held accountable under the law and he will go through this process and procedures just like anyone else

would. of course, we all sit there and think, well, not really. i mean, the two things are intentioned, right the nature of the former president going through this for the first time, there is nothing normal about that and certainly it's donald trump. that's the challenge for our business, right, is trying to -- is constantly trying to stay on that -- walk that tightrope of treating him like any other citizen who would be going through this while also recognizing the extraordinary nature of the proceedings. i think we can ask ourselves and the distinction you made earlier i think is the right one, you know, this is historic and we have to cover t but, my god -- >> right. >> -- there's nothing relevant or historic about the trip on the l.i.e. or on the -- in from laguardia. the movements are not part of the story, they are -- they are just us kind of -- when we do this, just us kind of filling time in a way that benefits

trump and exalts him in a way, makes him like a king. >> john, i was thinking yesterday the story that you told, you guys wrote about, in i think it was 2016. you had told me about where he was at the iowa state fair and you all were talking and interviewing other candidates and then the trump helicopter buzzed on top and circled around and -- or maybe it was the plane, circled around and everybody just stopped and they just looked up. >> helicopter. >> helicopter and everybody's eyes stays fixed here you had all of these people that were running and he just used that. i was thinking about that yesterday and trump commented afterward i never realized it would be this easy so when i saw that happening yesterday and saw the press still seven years later affixed on a logo on a plane and not being able to take their eyes off of it, i thought, well,

seven years later we've still learned nothing. >> it's like that moment -- hillary clinton was actually at the fair that day and it was like everyone in her entourage and there were others who were running for president there and staff, everyone was sort of awe struck you heard this utterance where people looked up in the sky, oh, it's trump it's trump the helicopter just got -- it gave him this different status in the race among his competitors, not just among the media, and you're exactly right, it's like yesterday it was like he was running the helicopter play again it's a thing that the press could easily avoid a lot of hard calls to make in terms of what to cover and what not to cover over the course of the next 24 hours, 48 hours new york city the phi tour if you ask yourself am i just falling for the helicopter stunt again and if the answer to that question is yes, turn away. >> chuck rosenberg, let's put the big circus to the side and

talk about what we're going to see around 2:15 in lower manhattan at 100 center street you have a former president of the united states, a man that wants to be president again who will be processed as a criminal defendant. what else do you expect to see today and specifically in terms of the charges against him >> yeah, willie, good question first, in a routine case what's going to happen today is completely routine, it's just an arraignment, and as court proceedings go rather uninteresting. you show up on time, the judge comes out on the bench, the charges are unsealed, the judge advises the defendant in this case mr. trump of what the charges are, that's probably when we are going to learn it, too, and then it's rather quick, he sets bond, in this case i'm imagining that mr. trump will be released on personal recognizance and the judge might set other dates for motions or a status hearing, maybe even a trial date what happens before and after is up to, i guess, us and how we

talk about it and how we cover it what happens in the courtroom is up to the judge and it's really important to me that mr. trump be treated like anybody else inside the courtroom that he be given all his rights, that the judge run a dignified courtroom, that the proceedings start on time and that people respect the power of our courts. that's what i'm looking for. i'm also really interested in seen the indictment, something i imagine i will be reading cover to cover when it's finally unsealed >> so there are other legal cases that donald trump is dealing with, including the documents issue, the mar-a-lago documents, and there are new developments this week that donald trump might have participated in possible obstruction with some of those materials that were at mar-a-lago during an interview with fox news last week donald trump was asked whether he would personally look through boxes of documents from his presidency while they were stored at mar-a-lago here is his response last week

>> i can't -- i can't imagine you ever saying, bring me some of the boxes that we brought back from the white house, i'd like to look at them did you ever do that >> i would have the right to do that there's nothing wrong with it. >> i don't think you would do it. >> well, i don't have a lot of time, but i would have the right to do that i would do that. >> let me move on. >> remember this, this is the presidential records act i have the right to take stuff do you know that they ended up paying richard nixon i think $18 million for what he had. they did the presidential records act. i have a right to take stuff i have the right to look at stuff. >> willie -- >> you do? >> willie, sean was trying -- >> tried to help him. >> -- to help. >> you are allowed to take stuff? >> meatball don -- wait, that's meatball ron sean was trying to help trump time and again okay, but i know you wouldn't do that sure i would

okay, let's move -- and then he goes let's move on and he's like, no, no, i want to -- i want to completely prove the federal government's case. and then he goes on and proves the federal government's case which of course -- >> you are not allowed to take stuff. >> -- which is more relevant now after the "washington post" story that broke this weekend. >> if you are the prosecutor, the special counsel in this case it's just clip and save these interviews, clip and save. some of it amounting to a partial confession remember it was last september in a different interview with sean hannity when donald trump said you can declassify documents just by thinking about them as former president of the united states if he thought about them being declassified then they in fact would be declassified we should ask chuck rosenberg as a former prosecutor himself if you are the special counsel, if you are jack smith, what are you making of these interviews that donald trump is giving again, especially the ones to sean hannity? >> i was thinking, willie, about when i was a federal prosecutor

preparing for trial i would literally have a manila folder which i would label my cross-examination file, every time i found a document, someone said something or something i thought was useful i would put it in that file. the file here would be enormous. i mean, as prosecutors we collect stuff, we hold on to stuff, we never know exactly when we're going to need stuff, but mr. trump from a pros prosecutor's perspective as you're preparing for cross-examination is a gift that keeps on giving. they are going to have a lot of information, a lot of clips, a lot of the things he has said to choose from. whether or not he gets on the stand, whether or not they ever get to use it, we will save that question for another day, but prosecutors are always collecting a cross-examination file and mr. trump can't help himself, he always talks about mr. trump and that just makes the file bigger and bigger and

bigger >> he just can't help himself. i want to play this clip again because, again, in light of the "washington post" reporting this weekend, it becomes even more relevant let's play this clip again in case you all -- well, first of all, missed donald trump's confession and, two, missed sean hannity trying to move him along and he just wouldn't do it because he was like going, no, i like my hand on the hot stove so much, i'm going to put the other hand on the hot stove. run it, tj. >> i can't -- i can't imagine you ever saying, bring me some of the boxes that we brought back from the white house, i'd like to look at them did you ever do that >> i would have the right to do that there's nothing wrong with it. >> i know you -- i don't think you would do it. >> i don't have a lot of time but i would have the right to do that i would do that. >> let me move on. >> remember this. >> yeah. >> this is the presidential records act. i have the right to take stuff do you know that they ended up

paying richard nixon i think $18 million for what he had. they did the presidential records act. i have the right to take stuff i have the right to look at stuff. >> i have the right to take stuff and look at stuff even after -- as the "washington post" suggests -- federal investigators and the feds tried to get them back federal investigators the post reports have new and significant evidence that shows that after the subpoena was delivered trump was rummaging through boxes of the documents in his home because, elise, he wanted to keep certain things in his possession that the federal government said he had to return to them. >> and, joe, this is where donald trump could really get in trouble because that's obstruction. >> right. >> he differentiates himself from other former officials who

might have a claim of inadvertently removing classified documents and having classified documents in their personal possession by the fact that he doesn't make good and make amends and he continues to try to obstruct the government's case so you have this case happening in new york city which one republican operative called the mickey mouse paperwork case, but then you have the classified documents case and how donald trump has taken it possibly to the next level if he hasn't been forthright with investigators. and then from there also you've got georgia and then e. jean carroll next month while today is a big deal, there's plenty of other legal action to watch with donald trump. >> and, joe, people i have talked to in trump's orbit in recent days, you know, offer sort of two sides to how they feel about manhattan yes, they think this could be a short-term political benefit for trump, they also acknowledge that of course trump doesn't really want to be indicted, no

one does, he's concerned, spent his whole life trying to avoid criminal prosecution, here it is they feel like this is a matter that can be dealt with they think more legal peril lies elsewhere. the two they are most worried about, georgia which we expect to hear about in a month's time and then this one here yes, it's about the differences between how joe biden and mike pence handled their classified document matters and this one. they cooperated, they returned the documents. donald trump did not and they feel like there is -- there is a real vulnerability here for obstruction and jack smith seems to be working his way up, you know, in his investigation closing in, although perhaps he could save the taxpayers money and time by dvr'ing fox news and present his case to the grand jury. >> you have your confession, you don't need a position or inter log towers, dvr fox news at night whenever trump talks and

you are in good shape. chuck, i'm curious if you agree with those on the inside that jonathan lemire has talked to, of course, understanding that we still don't know what da bragg has, everybody has been talking about this indictment being strong or weak, being an embarrassment or being a final call to justice. we have no idea what this is going to be. so we lay that on the table right now, just like we don't know exactly what georgia is going to be but we have an idea. same thing with the documents case still, looking at these things, do you agree with the assessment not only of people inside trump world, but also with a lot of legal analysts that right now he seems from the fact patterns that are laid before us in the media, incomplete, but the fact patterns laid before us in the media and the law in these jurisdictions, relevant jurisdictions, that the georgia case and the documents case, particularly on the obstruction of returning the documents, seem

to be the two cases that could provide donald trump the gravest legal peril? >> i think that's right, joe and remember, with respect to the documents case, when the fbi executed the search warrant at mar-a-lago, they went forward on three predicate offenses one of them at the time was obstruction. so the fbi had enough information at the time to include in the affidavit their concerns about obstruction and as a prosecutor that's something we always look for first because it's illegal, but second because it also evinces a -- of guilt. so if you're trying to turn a weak case into a strong case for the government, obstructing justice is one way of doing that so i agree generally that the case in new york seems less important. that doesn't make it weak.

i know that's something that mika and i talked about a couple of days ago. it's not necessarily a weak case the evidence could be compelling, it could be corroborated, there could be a lot of it, but in terms of charges, it's less serious how do we know that? well, for one the underlying offense and we will see whether or not mr. bragg actually charges it, is a misdemeanor, by classification a relatively low-level crime. if we see felony charges and i expect we will they will probably be class e felonies under new york state law, again, a relatively low classification of felony. doesn't mean these charges don't matter, it doesn't mean he won't be held to account, but i agree generally, joe, with your supposition that the cases in georgia and the cases under investigation by jack smith as special counsel are probably weightier. >> all right former u.s. attorney chuck rosenberg, as always, we greatly appreciate your time

thank you for being with us. now, we are on the other side of this clip we are about to play, kids, please stick around because we have your favorite game show coming up in about 30 seconds but first, let's go to these commercials from our sponsor >> i can't -- i can't imagine you ever saying, bring me some of the boxes that we brought back from the white house, i'd like to look at them did you ever do that >> i would have the right to do that there's nothing wrong with it. >> i know you -- i don't think you would do it. >> i don't have a lot of time but i would have the right to do that i would do that. >> let me move on. >> remember this. >> yeah. >> this is the presidential records act. i have the right to take stuff do you know that they ended up paying richard nixon i think $18 million for what he had. they did the presidential records act. i have the right to take stuff i have the right to look at stuff. >> and now, kids, it's that time of the morning, if it's 6:34 a.m. you know it's time for everybody's favorite game show,

confession or projection let's bring on our special guest this morning to answer that question, "the circus" john heilemann. it's great to have somebody on match game '75, '76 and '78. today it's projection or confession, was donald trump projecting or confessing >> joe, you make an excellent replacement for gene rayburn i think in this case it's confession it's confession and one of the things we also learn in that clip, you know, the fox news people occasionally say -- fox news people occasionally say our prime time hosts are not actually journalists, that's not actually news we do in prime time, that's entertainment the best example -- >> they say that in their legal pleadings. >> that's correct. and the best evidence for that claim is sean hannity, you know, his behavior here.

when is the last time you saw, joe, a journalist in the middle of an interview when the subject is confessing to a crime, the journalist saying, let's move on, as opposed to, excuse me, sir? let's spend some time on that topic. rather extraordinary performance even to the low standards we apply to hannity that was an amazing performance on his part. definitely confession. in terms of the politics of all of this, on the last scene of last sunday's "circus" we had a bunch of lawyers in the room and i talked to them and i was struck by this, asking these lawyers -- wiseman was on, a number of other people said, hey, what's the chance that any of these cases that trump has been indicted or might be indicted in or end in court before election day of 2024? the bragg case, for example, we might not even see that case -- that case -- the trial may not even begin before the election

in 2024. and the one case that there was consensus on is the obstruction case around the classified documents because federal cases move faster. this is according to many a pretty straightforward case where a lot of people think it's becoming clear that the special counsel has trump dead to rights there is the rocket docket that moves things along more quickly. you could imagine according to these experts that that case could not only be heard but decided before election day, it's not inconceivable that one case that trump could actually be convicted before election and, you know, just remember the manafort case, four months that's all it took, the manafort case in federal court. >> far different, i think, in federal courts and state courts or even local courts i think you're right also when the feds charge you, you have two options, you can usually plea or you can have a

guilty verdict because they usually make sure they have it pretty lined up before those charges come so we'll see what happens. john heilemann, thank you so much. >> thank you, john. >> willie, we try of course here on "morning joe" to avoid bright shiny objects or talking about other cable news hosts i think the take away from the sean hannity interview actually a donald trump you do have a confession there even as hannity is trying to move him along, trump just keeps going back saying basically i did it i did it and i would do it again. it was chris farley in that "saturday night live" scene when he is in jail. yes, i did it and i would do it again. well, that was trump and then once, again, claiming that he has this right that he just doesn't have, especially when

the fbi, the justice department says, have you returned everything to us, and you direct your lawyers -- which, again, based on what we know in the news coverage now, unless the lawyers went off on their own which they claim they did not, but donald trump directs his lawyers to lie and say he has returned everything. that's a crime that's a crime there's no getting around that >> respectfully when sean hannity goes to mar-a-lago for an interview it's not to expose donald trump, it's usually to help him along, but donald trump did all the work himself in that interview. we should point out he cites the presidential records act the presidential records act says exactly the opposite of what he claims it says which is that the documents belong to the american public and they are not the personal property of the president of the united states that was passed in the late '70s after watergate to kind of change that rule so he is leaning on a law that actually works against him in this case. >> might have been nice if perhaps he was corrected on that but that was not going to

happen. >> well, again, we are looking at the president and right now -- >> we have all looked at it, especially since the documents case. >> again, elise, i think if you listen to the reporting of jonathan lemire, you listen to chuck rosenberg, just one of the best in the business, okay, yeah, this manhattan da we will see what that indictment is, we are not sure how strong that case is going to be, but we are fairly sure, jonathan and then we will go to elise to wrap up this segment, we are pretty sure the documents case is the strongest and the georgia case not far behind >> yeah, that seems to be the consensus both in trump world but also legal experts january 6th case obviously so momentous, but there is a sense that will be harder to prove. >> harder to prove >> that's right. so these two here, the documents -- at least the obstruction part of the documents and then what's coming in georgia, and we've been hearing this week that there is a sense there that they're zeroing in potentially on moving on an indictment at least maybe

in early may that's the chatter unconfirmed but seems to be the current speculation out of georgia. >> and the georgia case is so powerful because you have trump in his own words saying things that are just completely inappropriate, if not down right illegal about the election and votes to georgia's secretary of state. the jury forewoman, the grand jury forewoman who had a lot to say after that grand jury, she hinted that there is a second trump case that we haven't even heard. so hearing what donald trump did in georgia in the election and what -- misdeeds he was encouraging elected officials to do at his own behest, that's really powerful. >> all right it is really powerful and so interesting, a phrase that donald trump loves to throw around whenever he is caught saying something improper on a phone call it was a perfect call.

this call in georgia which seems to get worse every time you hear it, this call in georgia was the perfect call for pros koorts we'll see. again, we're hearing early may it's certainly taken a long time for georgia to move, it's been over a couple of years, we will see what that timeline s mika, i'm curious as we go into today, what are your thoughts what are you looking for >> well, actually, my thought is it's a very sad day for america and i know you were talking about everything that we've learned since 2016, but regardless of what side, what party you are in, regardless of anything it's just really sad that a former president is getting indicted and that it may not be the only one. i think we should just -- i think moving forward into the day i just want to remain measured and watch the facts as they come out. that's all we can do today. >> i completely agree. the thing about today's case is, again, two things can be true at

one time if you believe no man is above the law and that you look at this prosecution and you see the indictment and it seems to be a very strong case against donald trump, then of course that can be true, at the same time the people say we've crossed the line here and the consequences could be grave. >> that's what we will be talking about. >> for future presidents, that is true. for so often we sit here and not just -- not just on tv, but also newspapers and it's always got to be black or white this leader has got to be good or bad this law has to be this or that. this case has to be strong or weak sometimes two things can be true at once and i think you're exactly right here, if you don't see this as a sad day for america and if you don't see this as the crossing of a line that can cause serious problems in the future, well, i don't think you understand american

history and can't project out forward. at the same time, mika, again, in this country no man is above the law and so those are the two things that we balance not only in this case, but in georgia, in the documents case and in the january 6th case. >> so we have a lot more other news to cover. still ahead on "morning joe" in the ongoing clash between florida governor ron desantis and one of the state's largest employers, disney. the company is fighting back we will have the new comments from disney's chief executive. plus, there is a ton of states today and wisconsin's supreme court election we will have a live report from that battleground state as voters head to the polls today. and in a major blow to russian president vladimir putin, finland is set to become the 31st member of nato. admiral james stavridis will be in to weigh in on that historic

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martin luther king jr. was killed tonight in memphis, tennessee, shot in the face as he stood alone on the balcony of his hotel room he died in the hospital an hour later. last night he said this -- >> i don't know what will happen now, we've got some difficulties ahead, but it really doesn't matter with me now because i've been to the mountaintop.

i don't mind like anybody i would like to live a long life, longevity has its place, but i'm not concerned about that now i just want to do to do god's w and he has allowed me to go up to the mountain. i looked over, and i've seen the pro pro promised land. i may not get there with you, but i want you to know tonight that we as a people will get to the promised land. so i'm happy tonight i'm not worried about anything i'm not fearing any man. mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the lord >> that is the reverend dr. martin luther king jr., one of

the most poignant and tragically prophetic speeches the next evening nearly 55 years ago today, the civil rights icon was assassinated joining us is his son and wife andrea waters king they complete the drum majors institute, the action group founded by dr. king. also with us here in new york, the host of msnbc's "politics nation," reverend al sharpton. good morning to you. martin, i'll begin with you before we talk about the legacy and where we are today you were a 10-year-old boy on this day 55 years ago. what are your memories >> well, my memories are not just really sketchy, but i thought i was dreaming when i first heard on the news, which would have been this evening at 7:00 that my father had been

shot, and later on learned that he died. i was hoping that it was a dream, but obviously it became very true and i think the challenge today is 55 years later, what really is happening in our country he taught us how to navigate through conflict without being destructive. we've lost civility in the political space, and he taught us how to engage, how to disagree without being disagreeable, and we've got to reintroduce that in our society. he often said, we must learn nonviolence or we might face nonexistence it feels like we are close to what he was saying back then in my personal judgment we are better than what we are seeing right now as a nation, and there are so many issues that we've got to address, but what i do know is it takes a few

good women and men to bring about change he and my mother throughout his life, throughout her life, they showed us that. >> we were sitting around the set watching that speech the evening of april 3rd, and it just sends chills up your spine. it was like he had a vision and he knew what was coming the next day and was imploring everyone to kcarry on his work, carry on his dream. what is the state of that dream today here in 2023, 55 years after dr. king's assassination >> well, you know, it's interesting because one of the things that i keep reflecting on even as we were driving to the studio here and looking at the areas in which he grew up and just imagining, you know, him walking these streets, and the thing that keeps coming up for me is what could have been, you know, what could have been for martin and his siblings, and his family, what could have been for our daughter, his granddaughter,

and also what could have been for our nation and our world i do think that we in a very real sense, are all dreams of the dreamer, and it really is now up to each one of us to continue to find our place within the king legacy, to find our place within the dream, and to truly once and for all, realize the dream. >> rev, you are one of the people who picked up on that dream as he was imploring people to do on april the 3rd, 1968 from you're sitting, we're dealing with situations that dr. king could not have foreseen what do you think? >> i think we have a long way to go, but i think we should give credit to dr. king and mrs. king they've brought us a long way, and, you know, the fact that today ironically on the 55th marking of his assassination,

donald trump, former president, is being arraigned by a black district attorney and investigated in georgia by a black woman district attorney. that didn't automatically happen that happened because of people like dr. king, and i think with martin and andrea and all of us, what we have come behind is to try to continue that in a spread of redemption. we are not rejoicing donald trump's being arraigned, but we are saying that everyone must be accountable, and for me to see donald trump walk into the same building that the central park five who he called on to face the death penalty, had to walk in 32 years ago, we were maligned for standing up for them, dr. king was right that the arc of the universe has long been towards justice we've got to continue a long fight that we may not even see the end like dr. king did, but it's our job to keep the fight

going. next week at our convention, martin and andrea were joined by the vice president to continue the fight about civil rights and human rights we're going to talk about launching going back to washington 60 years after the march on washington this august when he did the i have a dream speech where's the dream now? not only for blacks, but blacks and women, but latinos, but lgbtq, and i think we're committed to, that and for the last 25 years martin and i worked closely together, and he put me closer to his mother, and we talked about where we want to bring this where it's not a commemoration, but a conti continuation >> yes, rev. we understand -- normally an anniversary would be just that, you observing what happened in the past we have got to quadruple our efforts as it relates to the breakdown that is occurring in

our nation, communities not getting along. as i said, nonviolence to me is so important at this particular juncture where we're seeing gun violence go up my father was assassinated, and yet what our society is doing is saying, let's bring more guns. there's a sickness about that. i'm not suggesting people shouldn't be able to protect themselves, but if your solution is more guns, darkness will never put out darkness only light can do that violence will never put out violence only nonviolence and love can do that dad taught us that mother reinforced it, and we learned it as children, and where we are today is we've got to take some dramatic positive action, not negative action. we are seeing all the negativity all the time we're indated with negativity, in fact, but yet there's still this hope. the hope and the reality is when we come back together on august 26th on that saturday just a day

or two before the actual day which is a monday, we are encouraging hundreds of thousands of people to come to washington to say that we're going to fight for voting rights we're going to make sure people have permanent vote rights we're going to fight to address responsible gun legislation. we're going to fight to create community. dad's last book, "where do we go from here" is so revalent. we are seeing chaos, and we must be a community >> you know, reverend al, martin luther king jr. meant so much not only to you, but so many civil rights leaders, and there's a great lesson for all of us, of course, as we look back he has achieved this modern sainthood that even those who support policies that are the antithesis of what martin luther king jr. would have supported still quote him. they still revere him, but i

remember having tavis smiley on this show for the book "death of the king," and i remember it was first time, actually that i learned just how difficult those final years were for this hero, and that he walked through the valley of the shadow of death. he was in the wilderness for quite some time where, you know, we always say, two things can be true at one time ma martin luther king jr., and it's impossible for us to believe this today in 2023, he was being attacked by all sides. the left thought he was too conservative the right thought he was a communist. a lot of people in the civil rights community thought his time had passed, and yesterday it is his time, his words, his life that will be remembered centuries from now as -- as the man who helped fulfill the promise of our founding.

>> no, i think that that is what made him great, you know, i joined operation breadbasket in new york i was born and raised in new york i was not of the south it wasn't popular because my contemporaries were much more corps militant i got to understand the kind of attacks dr. king had to take from blacks who said he was too moderate he was in the store on the path to baptist church, and some threw eggs at him and said we don't want nonviolence here. two weeks later he was killed. he kept the mind of moral high ground, and mrs. king had that nobody knows better than martin that she would choose a moment to say to me, al, why did you say so and so? because you played to the crowd in the north that are a little more angry and she made me understand, if you are going to walk this line, you got to walk

this line in a correct way i don't think anyone has learned that and done that more than andrea talk, andrea, about the importance that coretta scott king that you in many ways remind me of, taught our generation behind them that you have got to bear cross if you want to wear crown, and sometimes the crowd is going to laugh and mock you as you bear that cross >> not only sometimes, but most times. i think it can't be stated enough how tremendous of a force of nature coretta scott king was, and i think we also need to always remember that even before martin luther king jr. became involved in the civil rights movement, she was already involved in the peace movement so this wasn't, you know, someone that, you know, married someone and then, you know, became an activist she in a very real sense, helped to mentor him in certain ways in

his activism, and they as a couple, you know, really stood on these principles, and she alone, you know, i think right now there are so many single mothers right this very moment she was -- and people forget that coretta scott king was a single mother, you know, to four children, but not only that, she was a mother to the nation, and we would not really not only not celebrate martin luther king jr. in january for the national holiday. we would not really know who and what it was that he did if it weren't for coretta scott king, and her continuing work, you know, the fact that she was the first woman to give the day speech at st. paul's cathedral the fact she traveled the world even after his assassination, and a few days after his death

before anyone was apprehended, she took her children and led the march in his place you have to remember that. she took her children. no one had been apprehended. she has mentored so many women she has been on the forefront of so many issues, and i always think often, you know, of her saying to women in particular that if the soul of the nation is to be saved, that we must become its soul, and i don't think that that is more -- that message has never been more important than where we are right now as a nation, where we are right now as women, where we are right now as the first generation that children are being born since the end of reconstruction with fewer rights than their parents, their grand pa grandparents and their great-grandparents, and that continuation, that leadership, and that's why we're coming together in march. we're coming together because in

a very real sense we're showing unwavering support for democracy. >> martin luther king iii and andrea waters king, thank you both very much for coming on the show this morning. >> thank you so much >> we really appreciate it >> thank you >> to our top story, history will be made today when donald trump becomes the first former president of the united states to be charged criminally at 2:15 this afternoon, trump is expected to turn himself in to hear charges related to a payment he allegedly made to a porn star in 2016 to keep her silent about a previous sexual encounter she says they had. >> and that may be part of the arraignment. >> yeah. >> that may be part of the indictment we don't know what exactly is out there. there have been stories about how many felonies there are. again, wie don't have that

information. neither do you, and we won't know exactly the outlines of this -- this indictment until we actually read the indictment, but nbc's jay gray has more on what to expect today >> reporter: lower manhattan on lockdown this morning. streets blocked. an army of police and federal agents on the ground, and a warning from new york's mayor about anyone who plans to protest. >> our message is clear and simple control yourselves new york city is our home, not a playground for your misplaced anger. >> reporter: after arriving late yesterday, former president trump expected to make the short drive from trump tower to the courthouse later today, where he will formally be placed under arrest during processing, mr. trump will not be handcuffed it's unclear if a mugshot will be taken we do know he'll be fingerprinted. next, he'll be escorted to a

courtroom for arraignment, the first time someone who once sat in the oval office will stand before a judge to face criminal charges. trump's legal team says he will not plead guilty to what sources indicate will be roughly 30 could be. >> he's gearing up for a battle. this is something obviously we believe is a political persecution. >> reporter: the court appearance is only expected to last a few minutes, and former president trump plans to leave new york, returning to florida immediately after the proceedings. >> let's bring in msnbc contributor mike barnacle and u.s. special contributor, jonathan lamere, and reverend al sharpton is till still with us s well. >> what has been the response in britain and across europe about the possible -- well, the indictment and then the upcoming arraignment of donald trump? >> so let's start with yesterday

and i heard your conversation earlier about the hours of coverage that donald trump got just as his plane flew, landed the baggage was unloaded and whether he drove or took a left or right into manhattan and guess what it wasn't just american media covering that. i even saw the italian press had 24-hour cameras on that live breaking news even though nothing really wuas going on. this is a worldwide story. the rest of the world is interested and they're certainly interested beyond the images of donald trump's plane at laguardia, and his motorcade they are genuinely interested that for the first time in history an american president is going to be arraigned, has been indicted and arrested, and that's big news around the world. it begs all the questions that americans have, and the questions i have been asked as i've just come back from the uk. what does this mean for the 2024 election and donald trump's political future beyond that, were donald trump

to become president, what does that mean for america's relationship with its allies for yet another term in. >> for sure. >> all right >> there are questions about how consequential this is, and they're truly fair it is a balance in terms of covering it because it has to be covered. it's history happening and also as was pointed out, everyone's looking at that this will mean what could also be interesting, and it's possible -- >> right >> we don't know, but this former president, this may not be his first indictment. this former president might be facing multiple indictments, and i would just sort of sear in the seal that has been broken by indicting a former president. >> yep, i agree. i think you're right i think this may be the first of several indictments. we don't know, but mike barnacle obviously, there have been a lot of people that have expressed concerns with the outlines of this case, whether bragg should have brought this case, d.a. bragg should have brought this

case, which of course, we'll find out whether that is the case or not, but i know you've talked to me people have real concerns about the strength of this case. if it ends up -- if the indictment ends up looking like what we've read in the media >> well, joe, a couple of things to that point, this is an historic occasion. there's no doubt about that. it's also an obsession we have in the media in this country, and as was just explained, it's global as well in covering donald trump pictures of his plane, pictures of him waving, pictures of him all day long, every day, and that's a significant negative, i would think in terms of the way this will play out this indictment, we're going to find out at 2:15 today when they read the indictment, whether there's anything more to it than just a series of misdemeanors. if there isn't, chuck rosenberg talked to this in the last hour. if there isn't, this is going to

be boviewed as sort of a play b alvin bragg that perhaps should not have happened, should not have gone first. the real difficulty for president trump, former president trump, is jack smith, the special prosecutor that's the real deal, and that's what we're going to have to wait for. >> mike, let me ask you, are you concerned about alvin bragg's -- are you concerned that maybe he stepped in too quickly here? >> well, it's already happened >> right >> i am concerned about it, but it's already done. it's a done deal, and we're going to foind out exactly how big that deal is at 2:15 we can speculate all we want about what will be read when they read the entire indictment, but if it's a series of misdemeanors, people are going to say, are you kidding me the injection of politics into this thing is so easily done if it's all misdemeanors. >> and willie, one thing, i mean, definitely worth covering, trump entering the courtroom and

leaving the courtroom or even entering trump tower yesterday, and i did notice such a difference from all the other big events in trump's life, including running for president, coming down the escalator, events they had. no family. no melania, just trump alone, and i can't remember really anything like that, where he completely didn't have sort of his team around him, but this is one thing that he will have to do himself with the u.s. secret service. >> yeah, and we know that a lot of his family's tepid even by his campaign, that they don't want to be apart of it, and be advisers the way they were in the first campaign and his first go around as president rev, you have experienced the big apple circus as the "new york post" is putting it this morning. you have been at the center of it from time to time, and this is something completely

different though you know donald trump. he's been through this cycle before, but not as a former president who will be booked t today as a criminal defendant. this is a serious matter if you put aside the plane, and all that once he gets there, it's real business. >> well, you're right. i have been at the center of a new york circus, so i know clowns when i see them, and i think what we did not see yesterday to mika's point is donald trump was not clowning. i think people underestimate the impact this has on him psychologically. this is a man that flew into his hometown yesterday, that rose up, that used to put his name on buildings all over this town that is now going to have to stand in a dock, like, what he would call common criminals and answer to a judge. there's no good way to make that feel his family not there, nobody they're going to call donald trump, not trump, but donald

trump. he's going to have to answer like the kids he wanted to have the death penalty. he's humiliated. i don't care if it becomes the weaker case or the stronger case it is the most impactful, humiliating case to donald trump because he knows that a half mile down from that courthouse on wall street are the big titans that he always wanted to thumb his nose at who will be saying, we told you he was a crook. look at him. he's in this court like a common thief, and i think that's the last place he wanted to be. >> as mika points out, it could be the first of several court appearances in months and years. let's go down to our investigations reporter for "the guardian," hugo lull what do you expect to see today? >> reporter: it's probably going to be pretty quick, right? donald trump's going to come here for his arraignment around 2:15 the trump team is expecting to get to the house several hours

earlier for fingerprinting and possibly a mugshot, but that sounds increasingly unlikely, and then he will plead not guilty, and we will probably go through just the counts. they will probably wave reading of the indictment, and then trump is back in palm beach. exactly i think we should set expectations here. it may be quite a quick affair. >> so what kind of legal trouble, hugo, you have been covering this very closely, does the president's team actually believe he is in right now they're projecting this only makes him stronger look at his polls and that's in a primary, not in a general election look it a his polls and his lead over ron desantis has only grown, doubling in some polls. that is the spin from their camp outside. inside, how concerned are they about his legal peril? >> reporter: you know, i think they're just trying to take it day by day, you know when i touched base with them last night, several of the lawyers were, like, look our aim tomorrow is to just get through the day. i think their legal troubles, it's difficult to figure out

because they haven't seen the indictment yet, and they are guessing in just the same way that we are, although, you know, we know that there's going to be a felony count by know it's going to be falsification of business records, and it's really interesting when you look at the legal team that trump has assembled for this case so far, it includes tom blanch, the new lawyer that was brought on he just resigned from elsewhere, and that seemed to be an effort to get a generalist in place there was a response about getting a lawyer who is an expert in campaign finance, but at this point because they just don't know, it looks like the legal team is just bracing for general felony counts. >> they don't know and we don't know we will see what's inside that indictment around 2:15 eastern time hugo lowell, we appreciate it. what are you expecting today >> i would be interested in what joe thinks about this. at 2:15, given everything that

has happened with donald trump over the years, given his persona, his candidacy, his election, failed re-election, i'm wondering if you think at 2:15 today, whether this story becomes incredibly personal on two levels one level is going to be when he walks into the building at 2:15 today, he will officially for the first time in his life, be under arrest later on in that proceeding for the first time in his life, he will have to stand there by himself, donald j. trump, look at a judge when he's asked how he pleads, and he's going to have to say, not guilty. i would think that that would have an enormous impact. >> well, i can -- i can only guess how he feels based on the time that we spent with him

pre-2015, and the thing about donald trump is that he -- when he's in the corner, he fights, so he will fight today, but it will have -- it will have a big impact on him, and i think back to times -- i think back to, like, for instance, when he found his attorney general had appointed a special prosecutor, had appointed somebody to, what? rod rosenberg i think was his name how quickly we forget. >> rosenstein. >> rosenstein. how kwquickly we forget, thank god, but trump immediately said, there goes my presidency he was aware of it, you know, there are a lot of things, you know, that president trump, and i'll go you, rev there are a lot of things that donald trump is willfully ignorant of, whether it's the constitution, whether it's history, whether it's -- whether it's the law, and he does live

in his own world, but he is very aware. he is very tied in to where he is sitting he's very, very aware of the insecurities that have haunted him his entire life, which makes him strike out even when somebody with, like, 15 followers on twitter attacks him or -- >> this is a first in his life >> yeah. so this is a first, and i always think about maggie haberman, somebody who knows a lot about him who said for donald trump he was always trying to survive the next five minutes. that's what his life's been like publicly since 1973, 1974. this is the moment he's been fearing all that time. so i suspect he -- despite what he says publicly, he does feel the weight of this on his shoulder and like you said, especially because he's been mocked and ridiculed by those wall street people, he's been mocked and ridiculed by the

people in "the times," he's been mocked and ridiculed as an outer boroughs guy from people who weren't even born in new york city, that are outer new york people, right? but there is, for people who don't live in new york city or in the area, there is a real sort of class divide between manhattan and the outer boroughs, and he's always felt that sting, and he's lived his entire life to move above that today i think you're right it's something that most likely just i'm guessing, but based on the time i've spent with him before he was president, i think this is one that's going to sting especially bad >> no, there's no doubt in my mind this is going to sting because of all of what you just said, and i was saying earlier every conversation i have had over the last 30 years when we would fight or when he would try to act friendly, he would always

reveal that insecurity he had, i'm an out of borough guy. they look down on me he never became secure even when he was president of the united states so all of those insecurities will become realized when they ask him, how do you plead? i also think that this morning he may be watching us now. when we talk about, we don't know what's in those 30 counts, imagine what's going through his head because he knows all the things he did and got away with. he doesn't know what alvin bragg may have uncovered, and i think the ride downtown is going to be harder for him than most defendants because many people know what they did he knows more than all of us what could possibly in those 30 counts won't know until 2:15. >> well, i've got to say also, he also has good reason to be concerned that the manhattan d.a. called david packer back in, "the national enquirer"

editor. >> that opens up other angles potentially. the other woman. >> and he's been talking about karen mcdougal, and the karen mcdougal -- the i mean, the karen mcdougal, david packer side of this story, people talking about how this may take center stage and more indictments than expected. all speculation, but that is something though that donald trump also is thinking about, again, their very personal reasons. there's another reason why, and it has to do obviously with his home the reason why he doesn't want this case being talked about on the front pages, so i'm sure it's also deeply personal to him, and those around him for that reason. i want to circle back to what mike barnicle said, and again, i think this needs to be said, that the timing of this for

those that are concerned about this going first, this case going first, because it may not be the strongest, well, that is underlined by many people, democrats, that are talking about this by the fact this is happening in the jurisdiction where donald trump got, what 11%? 12% of the vote in 2020. you even go to fulton county donald trump was held in the 20s in fulton county again, if we're just looking at precedent, if we're looking at the concern of what precedent this sets for let's say a west texas d.a. going after democrats and indicting democrats, and bringing former democratic presidents to theirs, well , you've got -- let's say georgia's next you'll have two jurisdictions where donald trump was held to 11%, and i think in fulton county, maybe 25%, 26%, 27%. under any fact pattern, take the names out of it, take the parties out of it.

that is not the best case scenario. >> no, and the political battle lines have already been drawn, joe. we've heard republicans make these charges. we have heard donald trump use -- not only claim it's political bias, that these be district attorneys that are catering to their voter bases. they represent deep blue districts, and that this is simply a witch hunt. he's done so doing racially charged and anti-semitic language also no one is above the law this was before a panel of grand juries and they have delivered an indictment which will be unsealed later today yes, there is anxiety as to what could happen next. we've never been here before the first time a former president has been charged with a crime. this is yet another tradition, another precedent, another norm shattered by donald trump, and yet our country and democracy tentatively moves forward, and we'll see what happens

there is expectation from law enforcement officials and people i've talked to, the protests should be pretty small, they believe. the nypd will be out in force. there is a belief there will be as many people protesting against donald trump as there will be trying to stick up for him near the courthouse, and other place aces across the cit, and we know donald trump is getting out of town as quickly as possible. the team has shared the schedule that as soon as this arraignment is over he's heading to la laguardia. we'll see if we get footage of it, and we'll be watching and worrying about what he might say. >> let me just circle back to you, and just ask you the same thing i was referencing to jonathan lamire, if a former democratic president is indicted in mississippi, a state we both lived in, or alabama, a state lived in, or west texas or another state where that

democratic candidate got 11% or 15%, or 23%, what do we expect to hear from democrats >> it's not good that's tough for his defense lawyer to get a jury that's even semi-favorably predisposed i just can't -- i think this is maybe going to bring up the karen mcdougal story line again is really just i credincredible. the whole story line of donald trump ever being able to go near some of these women at the end of the day and, you know, you almost got to just feel bad for these women that just because of donald trump, a huge mistake they might have made, they just keep having to go through this over and over, and, you know, just endure that mistake over and over again so that's kind of where i'm

landing. i just -- i feel bad for some of the women involved >> reverend al sharpton, thank you for being on this morning, and tstill ahead, antony blinke calls on his russian counterpart to release a jailed "wall street journal" reporter. plus, the finnish flag will be raised as nato headquarters today as that country becomes the 31st member of the western alliance we're joined next to weigh in on both of these developing stories. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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(psst psst) ahhhh... with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary spraying flonase daily gives you long-lasting, non-drowsy relief. (psst psst) flonase. all good. today is an historic day because in a few hours, we will welcome finland as the 31st member of our alliance and it was actually the invasion of the ukraine that led to the

decision by finland and sweden to apply for a nato membership, and it just dmemonstrates that when president putin hand us a declared goal of the invasion of ukraine, it wanted less nato along his borders. he wanted to close nato's door, no more nato motorbike for more countries in europe. he's getting exactly the opposite >> that is the secretary general of nato just a short while ago today ahead of the official ceremony, welcoming finland into nato just a few hours from now joining us now former supreme ally commander of nato, james stavridis. he's a chief international analyst for nbc news good morning this succession of finland to nato took less than a year can talk about the significance of adding finland and its border

with russia? >> it's been unbelievably good morning in brussels for nato, and a terrible morning for vladimir putin what could be better i'll give you three things off the top of my head why i love this for finland you mentioned one of them, 800 miles of border. that does nothing but put more pressure on the already broken russian armed forces number two, the fins, a nation of only 5 million people, can put 300,000 troops in the field in 90 days think about that for a minute, and number three, the fighting spirit of the fins, we sort of forget our history sometimes 1939, the soviet union, the red army invaded finland the fins fought them to a standstill a lot of history between finland and russia, not much of it good. they are going to be terrific allies >> yet another misstep for putin's invasion here.

finland was originally -- its candidacy was twinned with sweden sweden's has been delayed and is there hope they'll get in before this summerlithuania >> yeah. >> i want to get your take on it. >> politics are local, and president erdogan of turkey is playing to his base in turkey by pushing back on sweden, slightly convoluted story, but there are kurdish figures living in sweden so it's a bit of a tempest in a teapot at the end of the day, i think that after the election in may, president erdogan is going to allow sweden to come into nato, and that's going to be another huge plus for the alliance >> admiral, can you give us an update on the state of play with the war in ukraine >> sure. >> and part of that is russia's

minister has been charged by the icc of crimes against humanity, these forced kidnappings that are happening with ukrainian children that are just heartbreaking. >> yeah. >> do you see anything happening on the international legal front, and what overall, are you seeing right now with the war? >> you bet both good questions. let's start, elise, with the forced kidnapping and ind indoctrination of these young children really terrifying in many ways, and the icc international critical court has issued indictments again putin and a woman who is heading this effort that's good news the bad news is highly unlikely we're going to see putin indicted any time soon, even as we contemplate an american president indicted i don't think we're going to see putin in the docket in the hague. i wouldn't rule it out over the long throw of history, but back

to the war itself, it's -- and it's been quiet on the war front if you think about it. both sides are preparing for spring offensives. russia's will be ineffective for all the reasons we've talked about many times, bad logistics, bad leadership, lack of credibility. i think ukrainie's will be potet and will drive to the black sea. if that occurs, we're looking at a real jump shift in the war stay tuned we'll be talking about it over the next couple of months. >> and this comes against the backdrop of a "wall street journal" reporter, evan gerschkovich being detained. secretary blinken says he spoke briefly to his counterpart, sergey lavrov about the release of this reporter, but putin using a wall street reporter as

a bargaining chip. >> and yes the chief of "the wall street journal" calling this an ou outrage. you've got one news organization here in the states, also all across europe, lining up behind "the wall street journal" reporter who's been arrested who's now appealing that arrest. i just don't know, admiral stavridis, what can be done here there are no more viktor bouts certainly to exchange, and that was controversial in and of itself you and i had discussions about that is there something else that russia would like specifically for the u.s. to give i mean, is this trying to get something specifically or is this just vladimir putin show he can do this, and watch out all the other news organizations that have people in russia >> yeah. unfortunately for that intrepid "wall street journal" reporter, i think it's the latter. i don't see a particular bargaining chip out there, and

what we can do about it is exactly what's occurring this morning. that is to talk about it, to pu publicize it we can put diplomatic pressure to some degree on russia by expelling some of their diplomats in response, for example, but obviously we are not going to turn around and kidnap a reporter from russian television here in the united states so our job, i think, is to keep his story alive, push diplomatically here, and recognize there are going to be a lot more turns of the wheel before this one is over. final thought here by the way, when i deployed into combat frequently, i went in tricked out, bullet proof vest, protected. i look at these reporters, people like richard engel, our colleague here, many of our other colleagues at nbc, msnbc, they go in there with a flip phone and a badly fitting

helmet i'm proud of them. this is the kind of risk that they take, and we ought to support them to the max. >> amen. >> are we looking at this perhaps in the wrong way, though i mean, evan gerschkovich is in jail right now in moscow with no hope right now of getting out. i mean,lavrov, and there's n hope right now of getting him out. is he part of putin's war plan >> yes, and exactly as elise and i were just talking about, taking these children, indoctrinating them, all of tha fits together. it's not just a military campaign putin is running and i'll give one other one which we haven't discussed in a bit, but putin announced he's moving nuclear weapons into belarus >> yeah. >> he's not going to use them, but he's waving that nuclear flag all of it is part of the russian strategy, the propaganda

mike, it all fits together. >> what does it say about putin's stability or his confidence in his military >> yeah, it's lacking, and it ought to be lacking because they have had so many reversals on the battlefield, and so he is going to blend into other ways he can disaggregate the west, find disunity. this is a piece along with it threatening nuclear weapons use, along with all the of the propaganda he puts out constantly. >> ladmiral, i'm curious if you can talk more about the abduction of ukrainian children. it's something that was brought up at the summit what is happening? what are the numbers this is terrifying, and it's not something we hear as much about. >> it's not in the tens of thousands, but i would estimate not in the hundreds either, mika i think we're looking at thousands of children who have been separated from their parents, and they are carted off

to moscow, and the narrative for moscow is that these are orphans. they are anything but, and as madam zelenskyy shared with us, every one of these children are documented these are not simply young children wandering through a battlefield in ukraine these are deliberately taken, put on buses, moved to russia, told you will never speak ukrainian again, taught to sing the national anthem of the russian federation it is chilling >> that's sick. >> we'll keep a very close eye on that part of the story. retired admiral, james stavridis. always appreciate it coming up next, march madness ends last night in houston. we'll have a look at one of the most dominant runs in the history of the tournament. plus, first lady jill biden makes headlines for an invitation to the white house, an unusual one, following lsu's big win in the women's title game we'll explain next on "morning

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man, it is a beautiful day here in new york city on a tuesday morning. 7:45, the university of connecticut won its fifth national title in last night's ncaa championship game the huskies had one of the most dominant runs in the history of the tournament, winning every game by double digits, closing out last night with a 76-59 win over san diego state joining us is nbc news correspondent, sam brock sam, good morning. >> reporter: willie, good morning from the mag knolia hot

here in downtown houston where the party was still going on into the early dominant the team knew they were good going in, but they won by double digits in every game, and they proved they were the premier team in college basketball >> the huskies have their dreams come true. >> reporter: a team that's been tearing through the ncaa tournament the uconn huskies hoisting the trophy, and joyfully cutting down the nets. celebrations also erupting back on uconn's campus overnight and turning into chaos with fans taking down light poles and breaking win dpdows their star jordan hawkins hit this with only a minute remaining. right as san diego was trying to claw back into the game.

>> your three-pointer changed the entire momentum of that stretch. >> yeah. >> what were you thinking in that moment? >> we need a basket. te told me to make the shot, so i hit it. >> ice in the veins. >> ice in the veins. it's a title >> reporter: for this blend of star players and glue guys like andre jackson, they seemed destined for greatness. >> it's great to inspire a lot of kids from where i'm from. >> reporter: jackson's brother telling me about the family's first guard who had many big dreams. >> we had a hoop in my living room and my mom hated it to be here and just watch him live out one of his dreams is unbelievable >> reporter: now in front of the real chemikemba walker, the star player from 2014, jackson's dream becoming a reality >> i have been wearing a uconn jersey >> reporter: the team has a mascot, jonathan the husky, but they were anything but

underdogs. >> uconn, we got the four national championships coming in, right? we have been striving for number five now we got our own now we got our own >> reporter: the title ties them with indiana and duke for fourth most all-time. hurley's big brother, bobby knows a thing or two about march madness. the iconic point guard won two rings with duke. you said this is one of your best moments in sports. >> yes >> why >> because of everything dan and i have been together as brothers, and in life, and to see him as hard as he's worked and as much as he's been through, to get to this moment, and to achieve this. >> reporter: this morning, uconn with a victory for the history books. and as long as we are talking about family connections, jordan hawkins' cousin is angel reese from lsu they both have rings now telling me he's looking forward to the next family barbecue, and while we're talking about the women's basketball game, did you

see these ratings? 9.9 million view it's not just a record, but it more than doubled last year's which was also a record. a watershed moment for women's basketball, and just an incredible tournament all around. >> it was, sam i'm so glad you brought that up. those ratings, 10 million viewers for comparison the nba finals, that's kind of where they hover, around 10 million, 11 million, 12 million. that was a big moment for women's basketball a great team in lsu and iowa as well, and one of the most exciting players in all of basketball, caitlin clark. sam brock, thank you very much uconn is a great team, and they'll continue to be good under dan hurley, but they have got started coming there we saw jim nance in that shot and we both looked at each other. as long as i can remember, he's been the voice that was his last championship game at cbs. >> a decades' long signature and

so many athletic events. jim's voice, and of course, the ncaas. the thing about jim nance is that in addition to having that voice, and having that signature and that stamp that he puts upon so many athletic events that he's covered, he's that he covered, he is one of the best human beings you will ever encounter. a decent guy i will miss him and his voice on this we'll hear him on golf but this was his thing. >> i would say we don't have to say good-bye to him. the masters this week and then nfl. he'll do those major events. he was the voice of march madness for a long time. last night's game a fitting good-bye for jim nantz. >> great thing for the hurley

brothers we talked about the women's championship game. iowa might have earned an invitation to the white house. alongside the champion lsu here's first lady jill biden. >> we will have the champions come to the white house. we always do so -- you know, we will have lsu come i'll tell joe i think iowa should come, too they played such a good game right? winners and losers, that's sportsmanship. >> so first lady inviting iowa she might have to rescind that invitation it is a longstanding tradition whatever it is, the champions come to the white house. >> a hard no you can't do that. the team that wins the championship gets to go. the runner-up does not

never happened before it is not a political play he doesn't need iowa last time around that was an intense game got heated rhetoric afterwards. trash talking on the court seems like the idea is shouted down by a number of lsu players. >> i understand that the contentiousness was obvious. it would be nice if i with a some point visits the white house. >> terrible idea the first lady was really out of bounds we don't need to give out participation trophies mississippi state. really anyone but lsu. >> wow everybody angry this morning iowa is a great championship team katelyn clark maybe the most exciting basketball player in college sports right now.

>> one of the worst call ever the technical on her. >> would have still lost. >> reece is amazing. still ahead here, front page headlines across the country and nbc's ben collins is debunking another covid-19 theory. we'll be right back. you know, there's a thousand billionaires in america, it■s up from about 600 at the beginning of my term. but no billionaire should be paying a lower tax rate than a schoolteacher or a firefighter. i mean it! think about it.

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legislation yesterday. it heads to the house for a vote also a sit-in protest which led to the arrest of a state senator and theleader of florida's democratic party police say they were among 11 people who refused to leave after sunset in tennessee the chattanooga times free press leads with students in nashville protesting the state's gun laws yesterday students walked out of class to rally outside the state capitol. thousands were in attendance calling for new gun safety laws coming one week after three children and three adults killed in a shooting at a nashville elementary school. and the portland press herald reports lawmakers in maine looking to roll back a 2019 school vaccine law allowing

children to exempt their children public health advocates say vaccines help protect people. coming up, live to lower manhattan for the latest ahead of a historic arrangement of former president trump we're back in 90 seconds

former president trump is set tomorrow to be fingerprinted and photographed and then the next step to sit back and see how many cold cases that solves. >> oh, in a few hours donald trump will make history as the first former president of the united states to be criminally charged. although the arraignment is not scheduled until after 2:00 this afternoon, police are already bracing for crowds of trump supporters and critics looking to be part of the monumental day. correspondent garrett haake has more from lower manhattan. >> reporter: today at this new york city courthouse a turning point in american history.

in a matter ofhours former president trump is expected to surrender to authorities who will place him under arrest and process him before entering a courtroom to face new york state judge. mr. trump's attorneys say he will plead not guilty to the charges against him. manhattan d.a. bragg's investigation centered around hush money payments made by former trump fixer michael cohen to stormy daniels to buy her sigh lebs about an alleged affair with mr. trump which he denies cohen calls the attacks on his credibility irrelevant. >> look at the evidence, the documents that will be presented. >> reporter: former president trump left palm beach monday returning to new york landing at laguardia escorted by the nypd

and secret service to trump tower where he waved to supporters with robust security around the courthouse the mayor's message to potential protesters -- >> control yourselves. this is a home why not a playground for your misplaced anger. >> reporter: president biden weighing in on the city's security but not on the case's specifics. >> no. i have faith in new york police department >> reporter: on social media mr. trump without evidence lashed out as the judge as trump hating and blasting the democratic d.a. as corrupt and the case as election interference. overnight the judge ruling in mr. trump's favor to keep cameras out of today's hearing as the lawyers requested but allowing them to set up in a hallway outside the ourtroom a group of still photographers will take photos in the courtroom before the proceedings

begin. with his legal fate out of his control mr. trump and advisers are trying to use the indict to boost the prospects for 2024 and returning to florida delivering a speech to the supporters the campaign said it raised more than $7 million. >> jonathan, mike, katty are with us. joining the conversation is from "the washington post" eugene robinson and editor and columnist of "the new york post" rammish. >> gene, i want to ask you what you thought about the o.j. bronco chase where the news networks showed donald trump's plane. there's donald trump's plane there's the luggage of the

plane. it is like nobody learned nothing over seven years. >> yeah. absolutely because what happened yesterday, queens man living in florida combs home to new york to face justice. it was not really a news story it was covered wall to wall. now look he was doing what he can do. right? in this circumstance he is not in control. >> a big deal. >> driving donald trump crazy not to be in control but could control to try to make a spectacle. brings the big 757 with trump on the side which rather than a smaller plane. he has to land at laguardia. so he knows that everybody is watching making a big splash and then what? that's the question. and then what? we learn nothing from the last

time, from 2015 and 2016 we learned nothing but today's a new day. it is a different day. when he steps inside that courthouse he won't be in control of the narrative that i think is deeply unsettling to donald trump he is not going to be in control but in custody. >> that's one of the many interesting dynamics of the story. we will be covering when he goes to the courthouse today. it is history on a number of levels in terms of the wall to wall for the plane landing for 20 minutes, if we find out and we don't know i think the rolling stone might have reported this but like -- >> a single source. >> say he was offered to do this on zoom that would be the media being played big-time by donald

trump to get coverage of his huge plane landing in new york. >> that's a single source story from "rolling stone. >> that would make it worse. >> that is a great question to ask d.a. bragg talking to the press. willie, one other thing we have seen since donald trump lied and said he would be arrested on tuesday last week, a weak case or a strong case, nobody knows about this case. we don't know what it is listen i have concerns that he is being indicted in georgia that is a jurisdiction where he got 25, 26, 27% of the vote. we can say it doesn't matter guess what if it's a democratic former president indicted in rural

mississippi or west texas everybody will be worried about that that's a concern for a precedent nobody's passing judgment on the indictment we don't know what the indictment is until it's read in court. >> we don't know the counts. might be 30 counts that are inside the indictment. it is sealed until 2:15 today. patience we'll see how seefrrious this c against donald trump is. he is a criminal defendant he will be fingerprinted not sure if there will be a mug shot despite the circus and the suspect kawhi leonard around him. there's new polling showing that americans support indicting donald trump in this case. 60% approve while 40 pi% disagre

62% of independents say it is the right move republicans overwhelming against indicting trump 21% say he did nothing at all wrong 1 in 2 republicans say the former president's actions unethical but not illegal. the polling based on what we think we know about the case and the alleged payoff to a porn star we will learn about six hours from now what's really in there. >> yeah. i think you are really right to put in that caveat it is well to poll people but if you don't know the charges and what they have and karen mcdougall part of the indictment then it's an unhelpful they don't tell us much. only thing is almost 30% of

republicans polled there clearly unhappy with the president's conduct and thinking that this does amount to something that the d.a. should be investigating and going as far as he has on. >> yeah. joe, certainly this is watched carefully from the white house today. they have been not saying anything making it clear this is a legal matter don't want to be accused of putting the thumb on the scale or influencing an active investigation. president biden yesterday on the trip to minnesota simply saying he had confidence in the nypd. white house officials texting me this morning they'll only speak if there's violence on new york and then would condemn it. but officials there do not see any signs of that. marjorie taylor greene is holding a protest there soon

also expecting counter protests but nypd has a vote of confidence that they'll keep things in hand. >> i thought that mayor adams' press conference is good >> pretty great. >> don't come here we live here. >> there's a new op-ed in "the washington post" entitled trump's indictment will warp our politics for years to come you write short of being on biden campaign letterhead this indictment could hardly be more political. bragg campaigned on his willingness to pursue the ex-president in court. it's the long term effect on the politics that is most worrisome. if a prosecution that even some of trump's critics consider a stretch brings him down we can more dubious prosecutions of politicians in both parties.

that is not the death and destruction that trump with irresponsibility forecast as a result of an indictment but de decay and decline. it is loss of trust in the legal systems and that is definitely something we have talked about a lot. it is a concern, a real concern, but if this former president committed a crime in any of the cases against him what's the other option >> i certainly think that if you have a strong case against the president or an ex-president in this case that should be pursued. what is damaging is the possibility of bringing a case involving novel legal theories which a lot of people very critical of trump have deep misgivings about i think that's a different

story. when you stretch the law to get this particular defendant. i think that, again, as a number of people said this morning, we don't know the details of this indictment but if it's anything like what's been extensively reported on this looks like a shaky case. >> yeah. rammish, just for people that are viewers, just so they know, you believe that georgia case is much stronger and the mar-a-lago obstruction part of the documents case is much stronger so your objection is not crossing that line which i have been concerned about ex-presidents being indicted but your concern is not so much that, even though that's a terrible line to cross

your concern is like again what i heard from people on the left is d.a. bragg comes forward with this novel legal theory, a lot of ifs here, again, a jurisdiction where donald trump may have gotten 13% of the vote. >> yeah. that's right again, the fact that it's a very blue democratic jurisdiction, if he did break the law and you have a strong case maybe that's a problem but if it's a question i promised the voters i will get this guy and even if it doesn't make a lot of sense then i think you have something very different. there is a kind of straight line from trump himself and the lock her up politics that he is practiced for his career and what we see now on the left.

>> people look at the indictment of like, for example, john edwards, had he been a former president would that have been an indictment you would not have agreed with? >> i think it was a weak case as it actually turned out jurors agreed. so i don't think that that was -- i think it is a same thing. it is not that he's an ex-president or a weak case or has all of the appearance of being a weak case. >> in the end, is it going to matter the order of his indictments? we don't even know what the charges are that we'll hear about at 2:15, much less whether he is indicted in georgia or by the special prosecutor but if i were a betting person i would say another investigation

probably likely to produce something. in the end is the order going to be important at all or still important in your view even if he gets indicted and what you would see as more important cases? >> so let's say as you suggest other cases are brought and stronger cases you could argue this either way. you could say in a way people are sort of conditioned into thinking it is okay to prosecute a former president and the multiplicity of the charges helps. you could say the weakness of the new york case sort of colors the public perception and debate and makes it all look like these are his enemies out to get him i'm not sure which affects predominant but the prosecutors ought to be careful and exercise self restraint rather than

bringing charges that don't hold up. >> we have been talking on the show sometime about how my former party, the republican party, can't seem to help itself they move toward donald trump even though it's been devastating for the party since 2017 to have trump and trump-like candidates running. we saw a cnn poll out yesterday, 62% of independents support this indictment with the caveat they don't know what the indictment is which, again, you can write a column on that alone do you see what many of us see, and that is, a republican party that seems to be split between people at the national review, some people at other conservative outlets, the republican establishment, thought leaders in the

republican party wanting to move from donald trump, perhaps to ron desantis and the base of the party still pulling them back to trump? setting up another possible general election loss. >> there's no question that a significant chunk of republican voters still see donald trump as their champion and the scenario that a lot of people had hoped for including me that trump would sort of fade as a political presence and voters would be wanting to move on, i think that's been shown not to be true. this is a real fight trump can't be counted out can't be counted out for winning the presidency altogether in november of 2024. >> nope. thank you very much for your insight this morning. >> thank you all right.

so the feud between florida governor ron desantis and the walt disney company is escalating yesterdays the ceo iger publicly addressed the ongoing fight calling the actions anti-business and anti-florida iger also accused desantis of retaliating against the company over the stance on lg btq stances and said that desantis a potential republican presidential cane sought to punish a company for the exercise of a constitutional right. the governor got very angry about the position disney took and seems like he decided to retaliate against us, including naming a board over the business the comment comes as daeesantiss

calling for an investigation into disney and the board that voted to little the power before desantis appointed members iger said diz nir plans to invest $17 million at the theme park over 10 years creating 13,000 jobs at disney and thousands of indirect jobs. >> mike barnacle - >> i think it is a perfect example. >> when people come back at him like bob iger, donald trump on the debate stage, this all very staged sort of outrage opera towards wokeness in america, it's a false flag. you have to think iger going,

this is anti-business. this guy's like attacking a business for exercising the constitutional rights. you know it is not quite so easy when desantis is doing more than shadow boxing and somebody steps back into the ring he knocked desantis' head off. nothing conservative about what desantis is doing. attacking disney or tampa bay rays because they tweet concerns about the slaughter in uvalde or attacks cruise lines trying to keep the customers safe or attacks small business owners trying to keep people in the store safe and money coming into the stores during covid. this is using centralized state

power in a way that's anything but conservative iger pointed that out clearly yesterday. >> down there in florida with regard to desantis, joe, everybody's talking about the prospect of desantis versus trump and trump has a big lead and desantis will announce for president some point in time and then in the ring what will happen we know what will happen based upon his getting in the ring with bob iger and disney governor desantis is kid candle. one blow and he is out from bob iger. a premier ceo in the world he had enough of desantis and desantis' play on trying to govern disney world taking on mickey mouse and bob iger took care of him like that. so long, governor desantis.

>> really? kid candle pretty good. >> is that the guy in tyson's punchout >> no. >> joe, a florida native on this question of what disney means to that state, 75,000 disney employees in florida 50 million visitors from the world to florida forget the other jobs around disney they will invest $17 billion more an odd fight to pick maybe to win a few primary voters in south carolina. >> i thought that from the very beginning to have a woke crusade against mickey mouse and disney? trump people love going to disney world i see them there all the time.

it is so strange hurting a florida baseball team. a hugely successful franchise, by the way because they tweeted something in solidarity with the people of uvalde after the mass slaughter of children. like i said, telling small business owners who they cannot and can do to keep the stores safe. it is all -- it is all shock opera. it is all shock opera. i'm a conservative guy there's a lot of things with woke culture that i have been concerned about. mainly kids. well, kind of like i felt at times in school. not saying what they want to say on college campuses. my fear is not so much a social fear but bad grades and stuff

that i worry about but at this point, when i read yet another column or another saddest press conference from the left or the right, second they say woke i tune out if i'm doing it and it is an issue i have been concerned about for several years everybody's doing it except for the extremes on both sides desantis goes to war against mickey mouse on something that's so 2019, 2020. that it just sounds shrill. >> on the cancel culture issue there's a thoughtful article by a young woman graduating from stanford in "the washington post." there's not much nuance in the discussion it is anti-business. you have the same thing going on in texas, too. i was reading an economist profile about texas with all the

great things going for it and it could be the republican government stand in the way of what business is trying to do. not the libertarian attitude it is -- it could drag texas' economy down i wonder when you see the same pushback in florida. it is not what the businesses in florida want to be told. >> by the way, gene robinson, i'm sorry. it's just -- when i hear people whining about what corporations are doing and communist, woke. it is like grow up grow up. if they think those people are doing anything other than for the bottom line, i'm sorry, i'm not being too cynical about corporations here. they get paid and they succeed

when their company makes more money. so if they're talking that way it's because they believe it will help them in the marketplace. like when bp used to have the preposterous commercials about what tree huggers they were. nobody believed it they were polluting the gulf people said i like when butterflies fly through it an oil company. >> trying to - >> fuels just stop pretending that's the same thing like, oh, woke and communists! no they're not. they care about money. they are taking a position, whether it is a position on women's rights or lgbtq issues, they are doing it because they think it's going to help their bottom line. opposite of communism. >> absolutely.

when corporations take more progressive positions, what they're actually doing is they're appealing to younger customers to get them in the habit of using their gasoline or going to the theme parks because that's the future. that's how they will grow and make money and that's -- period full stop. >> period. >> thank you. >> to not understand that is mind blowing but my question is whether the republican party is actually becoming the anti-business party. >> they are! they are >> have i gone through a portal to enter the bizarre universe and it's the democrats who are essentially waving the flag for big business that seems to be where we are right now. >> it is what kevin williamson

wrote about a couple years ago talk about here. conservatives couldn't stand how liberals, people on the far left, used to drive down the military, they would say hippies would attack the military, would attack the fbi, would attack the cia, college campuses. they would attack the church they would attack all the institutions that create the foundation of american civil society. this is now the moment they are the ones attacking business, saying we wish the military is more like russia's military we trust vladimir putin more than the cia or the fbi or the nsa. all these things, this is -- it is a bizarre world that it is the democrats now who are

defending american institutions and it is the republicans who seem to be wanting to tear them all down. >> thank you both very much for being on this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," donald trump claimed in a recent interview he had the right to take classified documents from the white house we'll talk about how the comments could play into the hands of special counsel jack smith. plus a live report from wisconsin. voters head to the polls in an election that could decide the future of abortion access in that state. >> gerrymandering, voting rights wisconsin is the new florida this race is incredibly important. >> we'll be right back

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>> i can't imagine you ever saying, bring me some of the boxes that we brought back from the white house. did you ever do that >> i don't have the right to do that there's nothing wrong with it. >> i don't think you would do that. >> i don't have a lot of time. i have the right to do that. i would do that. remember this. this is the presidential records act. i have the right to take stuff do you know that they ended up paying nixon i think $18 million for what he had. they did the presidential records act. i have the right to take and look at stuff. >> willie? >> you do? >> willie? >> sean was trying to help. >> you are allowed to help

>> meat ball don wait why that's meatball ron sean trying to help trump time and again. i know you wouldn't do that. >> sure, i would let's move on. no i want to completely prove the federal government's case. he goes on to prove the federal government's case. more relevant now after "the washington post" story that broke this weekend >> if you are the prosecutor or special counsel in this case it's clip and save the interviews it was last september when donald trump said, you can declassify documents by thinking about them as former president of the united states then they would be declassified. we should ask chuck rosenberg if

you are the special counsel, what are you makes of the interviews of donald trump giving >> i was thinking about when i was a federal prosecutor preparing for trial. i would have a folder the file and finding a document or something that would be useful i put it in the file the file here would be enormous. as prosecutors, we collect stuff. we never know when we need stuff. mr. trump, as you prepare for cross-examination, is a gift that keeps on giving they will have a lot of information, clips to choose from whether or not he gets on the stand and they get to use it we'll save that question for

another day. prosecutors are always collecting cross-examination file and mr. trump can't help himself. he always talks about mr. trump making the file bigger >>he can't help himself. i want to play the clip again because in light of "the washington post" reporting this weekend it is more relevant. play the clip again in case you all -- if you missed the confession and, two, missed sean hannity trying to move him alock and he wouldn't do it. no i will put the ore hand on the hot stove. >> i can't imagine you ever saying, bring me some of the boxes that we brought back from the white house. i'd like to -- >> i don't have the right to do that there's nothing wrong with it.

>> i don't think you would do it. >> i don't have a lot of time. but i have the right to do that. >> let's move on. >> this is the presidential records act. i have the right to take stuff do you know that they ended up paying nixon i think $18 million. they did the presidential records act. i have the right to take and look at stuff. >> i have the right to take stuff and look at stuff. after as "the washington post" suggests federal prosecutors and the feds trying to get it back they report they have new and significant evidence showing after the subpoena was delivered trump was rummaging through boxes in the home because he wanted to keep certain things in his possession that the federal government said he had to return to them.

>> joe, this is where donald trump could really get in trouble because that's obstruction. >> right. >> and he differentiates himself from other former officials who might have a claim to have documents in the personal possession by the fact he doesn't make good and make amends and continues to try to obstruct the government's case so you have this case in new york city which one republican operative called the mickey mouse paper work case but then you have the dronald trump takig the documents case to the next level. from there also you have got georgia and carroll next month while today is a big deal there's other legal action to

watch with donald trump coming up, what we are learning from martin luther king jr. after being killed in memphis. a fresh look at the legacy is next on "morning joe." >> martin luther king dedicated his life to love and to justice. between fellow human beings. he died in the cause of that effort in this difficult day, in this difficult time for the united states, it's well to ask what kind of a nation we are and what direction we want to move in you just want to eat your heroes. the subway series. the greatest menu of all time. hey, dad. i got an a on my book report. that's cool. and i went for a walk in the woods and i didn't get a single flea or tick on me.

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those smiles. that's why i do what i do. that and the paycheck. ahead. it really doesn't matter now, because i've been to the mountain top like anybody, i would like to live a long life longevity has its place.

but i'm not concerned about that now. i just want to do god's will and he has allowed me to go up to the mountain. i've looked over and i've seen the promised land. i may not get there with you, but i want you to know tonight that we as a people will get to the promised land. i'm not worried about anything mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the lord. >> that is is the reverend dr. martin luther king, jr the next evening exactly 55 years ago today, the civil rights icon was as a nate assas

the balcony of his hotel martin, i'll begin with you. before we talk about where we are today, you were a 10-year-old boy on this day 55 years ago. what are your memories >> well, my memories are not just really sketchy, but i thought i was dreaming when i first heard on the news, which would have been this evening at 7:00 that my father had been shot and later on learned that he died. i was hoping that it was a dream. but obviously it became very true and i think the challenge today is 55 years later what really is happening in our

country. he taught us how to navigate through conflict without being destructive. we've lost civility in the political space. he taught us how to engage, how to disagree without being disagreeable we've got to reintroduce that in our society. he often said we must learn nonviolence or we might face nonexistence it feels like we are close to what he was saying back then in my personal judgment we are better than what we are seeing right now as a nation there are so many issues we've got to address what i do know is it takes a few good women and men to bring about change he and my mother throughout their lives showed us that. >> that speech sends chills up your spine he had a vision. it's like he knew what was

coming and was imploring everyone to carry on his dream >> it's interesting, because one of the things that i keep reflecting on even as we were driving to the studio here and looking at the areas in which he grew up and just imagining him walking these streets. the thing that keeps coming up for me is what could have been for martin and his siblings and his family, what could have been for our daughter, his granddaughter and also what could have been for our nation and our world. i do think that we in a very real sense are all dreams of the dreamer. it really is now up to each one of us to continue to find our place within the king legacy, to

find our place within the dream and to truly once and for all realize the dream. coming up, we will go live to lower manhattan where former president trump soon will be arraigned. what to expect just ahead on "morning joe." age is just a number, and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv moderate to severe eczema still disrupts my skin. despite treatment it disrupts my skin with itch. it disrupts my skin with rash. but now, i can disrupt eczema with rinvoq. rinvoq is not a steroid, topical, or injection. it's one pill, once a day. many taking rinvoq saw clear or almost-clear skin while some saw up to 100% clear skin.

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the people of georgia are angry. the people of the country are angry. there's nothing wrong with saying that, you know, that you've recalculated. look, all i want to do is this i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state

>> so that call -- >> that's a bad call. >> it seems like a bad call. >> listen, i'm not really good at this sort of stuff, but that's a bad call. >> donald trump would call it the perfect call. >> it keeps getting worse every time you hear it really that's a bad call i'm sorry, willie, go ahead. >> it's at least an imperfect call to say there's nothing wrong with saying you recalculated, in other words, just make up a new number so i win the state of georgia. that's all on tape >> it doesn't sound like a perfect call. >> the people of georgia are angry, the people of the country are angry. and there's nothing wrong with saying, you know, that you've recalculated so, look, all i want to do is this, i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we

have, because we won the state. >> and the operative words here, willie, there's nothing wrong with you saying we found one more vote than donald trump needs to be the winner of georgia. >> everything wrong. i mean, we have ari melber in a moment my gosh, if you're a prosecutor, say you're fani willis in fulton county, alvin bragg in manhattan, jack smith, the special counsel in these other two cases, these are wonderful pieces of evidence, i would suspect. >> yes that call between donald trump and the georgia secretary of state more than two years ago could mean more serious legal trouble for the former president. but for now, it's the case out of manhattan that is making history. trump is hours away from being arraigned on criminal charges. we'll have a live report from outside the courthouse in just a

moment also ahead, voters in wisconsin today will decide what many are calling the most consequential race in debcades. we'll explain why that description is not hyperbole every two weeks the terms died and suddenly trend on social media. >> it's said about this woman. guess what she didn't die they made it up. it's really grotesque. >> it's part of a major misinformation campaign by anti-vaxxers nbc's ben collins joins us with his exclusive reporting. that's an incredible story let's get right to our top story. >> just over five hours from now, donald trump is expected to walk through the doors of trump

tower, out those doors and head downtown to the manhattan criminal courthouse. there, history will be made as the first former president of the united states will be criminally charged let's bring in garrett haake live outside the courthouse. garrett, good morning. >> reporter: good morning. we have a low degree of chaos out here this morning as every available inch of sidewalk has now been taken on the block and a half around the courthouse in lower manhattan, be it for media cameras, still photographers, nypd officers and other security officials. i have been out here for about two weeks now off and on on this street corner. really, you can tell we're reaching the apex of this entire story here in terms of just the sheer media attention and security footprint you can't see it anymore, but they have entirely locked down the alley in between the d.a.'s office and the courthouse, where we expect in a matter of hours the secret service will drop off the former president for his

history-making appointment with a new york state judge the other new development just within the last half hour or so, we're starting to see the gathering of what's expected to be a fairly significant protest and counter protest just behind our camera position. i can just make out some of the maga hats of the supporters beginning to arrive here that's expected to be led by marjorie taylor greene we may see new york congressman george santos perhaps. even greene has been pointing out on her twitter account that she's expecting a significant amount of counter protesters coming to try to drown her out you could have something of an arms race out here on the manhattan streets as protesters and counter protesters try to make their voices heard in the courtroom 15 stories up in the courthouse behind me whether we see or hear from th former president during his visit to the courthouse remains a bit of an open question. you know there's been some tension between the secret service and trump's attorneys who are trying to keep his visibility as low as possible

and his company, which has aggressively fund raised off this entire indictment saga, his appearance yesterday at trump tou tower and the possibility of him passing by the cameras in the courthouse or on the street here every available moment of that is something they have tried to turn into a political and fund-raising opportunity we'll see who wins that match between security and the staidness the legal team might want to see from their client and the spectacle the campaign team have turned into profit on the 2024 campaign. >> we just saw footage of manhattan d.a. alvin bragg arriving at the courthouse under heavy security himself as well garrett, thank you so much joining us now chief legal correspondent and anchor of "the beat" on msnbc our buddy ari melber and jennifer horn, a senior fellow at the university

of chicago harris school of public policy. ari, let's put the media circus to the side for just a second. let's talk about what we know may happen today again, the indictment is still sealed we don't know what the specific charges are. what can people expect starting around 2:00 this afternoon >> i think we should expect an orderly process whereby the defendant, in this case donald j. trump, reports in he is surrendering he doesn't have much of a choice this is his best option, to go in there and become basically under the custody of the authorities. we're told it will be an interview room, not a holding cell that's an arrangement for someone who does have security he will be fingerprinted and go through the arraignment process in new york. for people not facing violent felonies, you're not going to be held in prison that day. that would be true for anyone

facing this kind of allegation he puts in a plea. he'll walk out you were mentioni ing much damng criminal evidence there is against donald trump, which there is in other jurisdictions and in new york in this case, but i think today will be about due process. for people who think, oh my god, this person is so important or so politically beloved that he should be above that process no that's not america that's not how america is supposed to work for those who hate him so much that they think he should just be snatched up, no, that's not how it works there's a sadness that we got to this point in america that a former official is credibly accused through a fgrand jury o

all this >> he gets his day in court just like anybody else. he's not above the law just like anybody else it's going to be a pretty routine process other than the fact he's a former president of the united states and the circus that comes with that we don't know what's inside this indictment we'll learn around 2:15. we hope we'll get some details based on what we know about this case, based on what we know about michael cohen's case, what can we reasonably expect >> everyone is looking for charges related to the payments to stormy daniels. based on the witness list, that's pretty much what's expected the big thing to watch for is do we see a bunch of charges related only to that this is what mike barnicle and i call sort of the ticketmaster approach to an indictment. you have your charging fee, then you have your surplus fee, then

you have your surplus surplus fee, then you have your, well, here we are today on a tuesday fee. that's what ticketmaster is jokingly accused of in some cases. you could have 10,20, 30 charges. if they're all about one thing, the case is going to rise or fall mostly on the fact pattern of that thing, does the jury think that's a crime or not. or are we going to see some other counts related to other activities, be they other things trump did financially, obstruction related offenses, other types of deceit and coverup. is it 30 roughly on one thing or more than one thing? >> so he'll appear before a judge, puts in a plea. he probably walks out of there unless for some reason a judge decides to keep him, but that's so unlikely as far as we can

assess i'm curious, given there are those who have concerns about january 6th, about trump's social posts, about his threats to bragg, is there any directive that the judge is entitled to give to trump upon his arraignment? obviously he can't hold his freedom of speech, but can he direct him on how he talks about this case or threatening any type of threaten words >> that's a great question, mika one, sometimes judges do give admonition or encouragement. they give legal guidance to people they say, hey, if you didn't take this process seriously before today, you're now in this process. by the way, he's got to return any time he's ordered to by the judge. if he doesn't, the judge has the option of issuing a bench warrant for his arrest to force him back number one, he could give the admonition number two, in some cases,

judges sometimes do issue gag orders for a variety of reasons, whether it's simply prejudicing the public, which is not directly itself a crime, but something in their purview or because they're concerned that people have already shown a tendency toward interfering, towards tampering with the process, the safety of the d.a. or his staff, witnesses. certainly donald trump both before and in the violent messaging and visuals that he shared has skirted that line his own lawyers have tried to walk that back if you're asking me do i expect a gag order today, no, because i think this judge is going to try to evince a totally typical day. the defendant may be a little more famous, but it's a typical day in court. >> for a typical day in court, sure, he's free to do his speech political speech is the most protected speech under the first amendment.

at the same time, if it were anybody else but donald trump and they had put threats against the d.a., if they had talked about violence, if they had a baseball bat that they retweeted next to the d.a.'s head, i can't speak to how things go in new york city, but i can tell you in northwest florida, woe to that defendant that made threats of violence against a d.a. that attacked a court and attacked a judge before the process even began. let's just be honest here. if there were anybody else but donald trump a judge cowould coe down hard on the defendant, would they not >> i think a judge, yes, would be very concerned and might voice in court or use other measures you can threaten contempt, you can hold someone on these

proceedings for that i also think ultimately those are usually the calls of the d.a., whether you think it rose to the level of a separate new crime, an obstruction crime, a tampering crime. but he's definitely invited a kind of intimidation against the d.a. i believe this week he also attacked the d.a.'s wife no, that doesn't usually fly. >> we'll see what happens. jennifer, i want you to see this clip in sean hannity you have basically the embodiment of the republican establishment, jennifer horn. take a look at this. >> i can't imagine you ever saying bring me some of the boxes that we brought back from the white house, i'd like to look at them would you ever do that >> i would have the right to do it there's nothing wrong with it.

>> i don't think you would do it. >> i don't have a lot of time. i would do that. remember this, this is the presidential records act i have the right to take stuff do you know that they ended up paying richard nixon, i think, 18 million for what he had they did the presidential records act. i have the right to take stuff, i have the right to look at stuff. >> let's see i know you wouldn't do that, bring boxes back i have a right to do that. and sean hannity saying let's move on. it's where trump supporters are right now. even trump's own attorneys going let's not listen to what a former president has to say because everything he has to say seems to incriminate himself. >> absolutely. when even sean hannity is trying to protect you from your own stupidity, i think you're in a bad place there. even his supporters are trying

to quiet him down. maybe his paid staff is, his paid attorneys are, but his supporters love where trump is right now. they love how he's talking they're out there saying, you're darn right he's got a right to do any darn thing he wants to do trafalgar group just released a poll yesterday that shows among republican primary voters, donald trump's support has increased by 12 points since this whole indictment thing started. the party and his supporters, they love him, they love that they have another reason to be out there in the street defending him and screaming and shouting and trying to make their voices heard kevin mccarthy, ronna romney mcdaniel, every state chair in the country, they're all fully behind this guy in spite of what's happening right in front of our eyes. >> he pulled the jedi mind trick

of getting ron desantis, his chief rival, to rush to his defense in the middle of a presidential campaign. as you watch sean hannity trying to help trump and trump cutting him off, claiming he had a right under the presidential records act, which actually the presidential records act tells us the opposite, that those documents belong to the public and not to the man sitting in the oval office. can that be used in court? will that be used in court in a case against him in these mar-a-lago documents >> that can be used in court as bad as that looked, only donald trump knows if his own surveillance tape shows him rifling through it i will say this. joe and i talked before about how lawyering works. the client affects the lawyering a lot. what you saw there was a mini moment of what it's like hannity was being a casual

lawyer like, of course you didn't do that, and the client is like, yeah, i do that all the time you try to get the client to be disciplined about the best version of the client's events that's why it's hard to lawyer for donald trump we saw a little version of that. i want to double back to on the popularity, donald trump is a declared candidate, this is america, he is legally presumed innocent and he'll go on with his race and we'll cover this. if they lose their motions to dismiss, the only popularity that will matter to donald trump above and beyond and before the nomination will be the so-called popularity or the judgment of those 12 jurors. that's not a popularity contest where you need 51% in our system you only need one as a defendant the burden is on the government. if 12 people are going to vote to convict him, we won't be talking about corn dogs and how the base loves crime

it's a sad point that we have a base in this country of any party that rallying around someone credibly accused of crimes that won't matter, because he'll be looking at whether he has liberty, whether he has to report to a new york prison cell we're entering a whole different field that i don't know that donald trump, until his fingers hit the ink of these fingerprints today, until he looks up at the judge. we know why he doesn't want cameras in there, because he's not going to be in control yes, sir, no, sir. you're not otherwise allowed to talk he's going to get a crash course in this. it's those 12 jurors on this day who ultimately matter if there's a trial, not any other voting group. >> we should note there are some in the trump campaign who do want him to speak at the courthouse, not to wait until he gets to mar-a-lago tonight jennifer, there's so much to mine in that interview between trump and hannity. i want to read you one other

bit. after he says i have the right to take stuff, he says, quote, did you know they ended up paying richard nixon 18 million for what he had. he misread this. that's not what happened did he just tip his hand here, admission to admitting he did these things, do you think he was looking to get paid for it >> i'm sure he was donald trump is looking to get paid all the time. i'm absolutely certain that he was. to your point, i think he did tip his hand look at how donald trump has conducted himself his entire life, not just in politics he raised $5 million from his supporters i'm pretty sure that money is not going to go to yard signs and campaign banners he's probably writing checks to his attorneys with that money as we speak

there's nothing honorable about what's happened here i think this is a moment to celebrate that the rule of law stands in this country, at least for this moment, especially for the powerful and former president it's especially important that we preserve it in cases like this. but there's nothing honorable or celebratory for the republican party here and they just don't seem to have the honor to understand this is a humiliating moment for them. >> ari, administrative question here before you go today's arraignment could go rather briskly depending on the number of counts and how they're read in court. but will the defendant donald trump be asked by a judge how do you plead? >> yeah. it's normal he shouldput in a plea, but he won't be saying anything else in the court proceeding. >> but he will say not guilty? >> yeah. that's under the standard

instructions for arraignments in new york you're advised of your rights and then how do you plead. >> ari melber, thank you we are going to be watching "the beat" tonight. it's every night at 6:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. former chair of the new hampshire republican party, jennifer horn, thank you today president biden will meet with his council of advisors on science and technology to discuss the risks and benefits of artificial intelligence the meeting comes as the a.i. chatbot chat gpt is gaining popularity the tool can answer questions and mimic writing styles, which has raised ethical concerns. italy banned the app recently, saying it violates the country's

privacy laws because of the way it stores personal data. we'll be following that. and this weekend, state officials around the country can start removing people who no longer qualify for medicaid. during the pandemic, states receive federal funding for allowing low income people to continue receiving coverage even if they no longer are qualified for it now that the provision has expired, the federal government estimates 15 million people could lose coverage. >> mike barnicle, it is really remarkable if you look through the years at the number of uninsured americans that don't have health insurance, it's remarkable the changes that have taken place since the affordable

care act in 2010 as a bill, this bill was roundly criticized by the right, also a lot of people on the left very suspicious of what's been known now as obamacare but you just look at the numbers of insured americans and the declining number of uninsured americans. by that very important measure, obamacare has been a remarkable success. >> what's remarkable also, joe, is from the inception of this to its passage, which was in the words of joe biden back then, a big blank deal that the other political party in this country, the republican party, has thus far fought it every inch of the way without proposing an alternative to it all these years have passed and millions of americans have now become insured health-wise

they have health insurance for the first time in their lives. again, the dissembling of government, the lack of initiative on the part of the congress because it's so divided, we have a failure of the chips act, childhood health program, things like that. there are a lot of children who now go wouldn't health insurance and people on the verge of losing their health insurance in various states because they didn't sign onto the medicare stuff. i mean, this country is backwards in terms of the way it insures people compared to several other civilized nations. we are not in the lead in this and we fail too many people. still, the obamacare act was a huge success >> and we've been making great progress because of that it bears repeating and underlining what mike just said. for 14 years republicans have been opposing this and have been promising they would provide an alternative, for 14 years.

and for 14 years nothing but reflexively opposing obamacare, they have not provided an alternative. there are a lot of legitimate concerns about obamacare that have come from the left and the right. but if you don't have an alternative, you know, it's like the old ted turner quote, lead, follow or get out of the way well, yeah, i'm with ted on this one. if you don't have an alternative that's going to insure americans and the truly disadvantaged, get out to haof the way and stop trg to block efforts tesla must pay more than $3 million to settle a racial discrimination lawsuit the jury handed down that verdict yesterday. it was the case of a former worker claiming he was racially harassed at the electric vehicle factory in fremont, california,

and says the company did nothing to stop it he worked there from 2015 and 2016 and this was the second trial in the case. last year a jury ordered tesla to pay the former worker $137 million, but a judge ruled that excessive and cut the payment down to $15 million. the worker rejected that award tesla's lawyers declined to comment on yesterday's verdict coming up on "morning joe," it is election day in wisconsin with voters choosing the state's next supreme court justice at $45 million, it is the most expensive judicial race in judicial history

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welcome back to "morning joe. voters in chicago will head to the polls today to elect a new mayor. the runoff election is between paul vallas and brandon johnson, the top two vote getters in a crowded field including incumbent mayor lori lightfoot vallas has talked an awful lot about crime in chicago during this campaign. johnson is a former public schoolteacher and a cook county commissioner in wisconsin, voters are picking the state's next supreme

court justice. the race between daniel kelly and janet pro protosay wits let's bring in shaquille bruc brewster why is it so significant >> reporter: well, this is a battle for control of the state supreme court here in wisconsin. as you mentioned right now and for the past 15 years really, this is a court that has been controlled by conservative justices this is the first opportunity for liberals in this state to flip the balance of this court in nearly 15 years and this is a court that has been at the center of some truly controversial rulings just in the past couple of years we're talking about a court that just months into the pandemic struck down covid restrictions,

that after the 2020 election banned the use of drop boxes that in the redirecting battle sided with republican maps that have given republicans in this state dominant control over the legislature. so democrats and liberals in this state see this as a key opportunity to what they say restore balance in this state, while republicans and conservatives see this as an opportunity to really lock the power that they have had in the state for over a decade. then there's the issue of abortion here in wisconsin abortion has been effectively banned since the overturning of roe, which snapped back into effect an 1849 law this is an issue that's likely to come before the court if you look at campaign ads, this issue has been a top messaging point for both sides, both campaigns pointing this out. i want you to listen to my conversations with both campaigns starting with protosay

wits, who wasn't on the campaign trail. she's been sick. then listen to my conversation with dan kelly >> this is officially a nonpartisan election but why doesn't it feel that way? >> it's a nonpartisan election, but there are so many issues likely to come before the supreme court that people care about, abortion, the maps and gerrymandering, lgbtq rights, a lot of things that we all care about. >> i think it's the most consequential. i think the reason people are paying attention is because there are such diametrically opposed views of what the court is supposed to do. >> reporter: the liberal justice has said that democracy is at stake in this election, not just pointing to redirecting but the potential for election challenges in 2024, also what those rules will look like here

in the state of wisconsin for the next presidential election that's why you have so many people watching this race. that's why there's been record spending on this state supreme court race >> a lot of eyes on wisconsin today. we'll be watching at votes roll in tonight shaquille brucer in milwaukee. thanks so much. former labor secretary robert reach writes, the underlying issue in wisconsin is the same it's been since trump lied and smeared his way into the national consciousness seven years ago. whether an authoritarian demagogue can take over a national political party so the party can then control enough state legislatures to elect that authoritarian even though a large majority of voters reject

him. what's happening today in wisconsin may prove as, if not more important to the future of american democracy it will either strengthen or weaken the levers of self-government in a state where those levers could make all the difference. >> and mike barnicle, this reminds me of key races that seem like one-offs but could indicate where the country is and where the country is going one of the most famous in our lifetimes was prop 13 and 78, the anti-tax proposition in california that pointed the way to reagan's victory in 1980. you had what happened in kansas in 2022 in the middle of the summer, a shocking result, which actually despite what the polls are saying that americans didn't care about abortion, a lot of 6%

polls for abortion being a key issue. it pointed to what was going to happen in 2022 i'm looking at this race it's a judge race, but it's in the most important swing state along with michigan and pennsylvania it is a state that swings republican and democratic the most and you've got abortion, gerrymandering, voting rights. you've got everything here i agree with robert reach. you can't underestimate how important this race is in showing where the country's going. >> yeah. to your point, howard jarvis in california and that amendment in the late 1970s that did presage so much what occurred. the thing that mystifies me is

how the wisconsin judiciary has not been overturned at a higher level in terms of the way that state is redistricted and making it almost impossible for democrats to win a house or senate seat in the state of wisconsin. i don't know how that has been able to can't as long as it has. >> you look at the disparity between the vote counts in wisconsin and how seats are ending up being distributed in wisconsin, the gerrymandering is horrific the roberts court defers on most cases. they prefer to defer to states, state supreme courts and legislatures that's why this case is absolutely critical. if the democrats gain control of

this, if the center left gains control of this, then their word will likely be the final word in all of these issues. it goes from jury instructions to gerrymandering, to abortion rights they're being ruled right now the people of wisconsin under a 19th century abortion ban. it's crazy. >> joining us now white house correspondent april ryan she's also an msnbc contributor. you're looking at the implications from this election. what are you worried about >> let's talk about the fact that its ideology, money and the balance of power i'm thinking about this moment with the wisconsin state house the assembly basically said let's look at this abortion

issue, let's maybe make an exception for rape and insinces but the republican party said no maybe that's why the balance of power, the issue there is so intense, because this could be the first time a democrat takes the high court in 15 years if the republicans are already fractured there on this issue, what happens next even though this is a majority republican state? the balance of power is critical as you talk about the issues of abortion and redistricting, gerrymandering and more and voting rights as well. >> the white house called out florida governor ron desantis for signing a bill into law that allows people to carry concealed weapons without a permit in a statement last night, white

house press secretary careen john pierre wrote the people of florida have paid a steep price for congressional inaction on guns and deserve better. the permitless carry bill was signed by desantis yesterday in a private ceremony with the nra in attendance. it overturns a law that requires gun owners to obtain a license to carry concealed weapons in order to obtain that license, gun owners were required to take training courses and pass background checks. with the addition of florida, a majority of states now allow people to carry a concealed weapon without a permit. >> mike barnicle, elections have consequences in this case, let's be clear, i

don't know a gun own er that sas i think this is a great idea no they want their fellow gun owners to be responsible and to know how to actually use their guns, to have training you talk to a certain generation when bush 41 got out of the nra and a lot of other people did too after they started calling federal agents jack booted thugs. it used to be that the nra actually trained people, that that was their focus, gun safety was their focus. this is a bill that extremists support. responsible gun owners don't support this

the majority of gun owners, the majority of republicans and conservatives support these things that people like ron desantis don't support that's why he has to have a private ceremony with the nra in attendance, because most republicans and most nra members think this is lunacy that we are letting people that are never trained in how to handle a gun and can just walk in and take it and carr permit less carry, so stupid and dangerous. >> if you want a definition of insanity and threats posed to law and order, to the police in this country, put up that map again that we just showed, the number of states who now have basically open carry laws where you can carry a gun no matter where you go, into an ice cream

shop, into a department store, no matter how unbalanced you might be, you can just walk around with a gun and use it whenever you want to use it. it's crazy we have failed as a culture and a country to address a true danger among us every single day, guns. >> it's crazy. as more and more americans want gun safety, you have more and more legislatures being more extreme. there's sort of a race to the bottom in terms of gun safety when we're having more children shot in schools. >> yes joe, that's such a poignant way to put it, a race to the bottom. when i heard about this florida law, i thought about tennessee, what's happening at the state house in tennessee we just saw covenant tennessee is one of those states

that literally has a law on the books that you can openly carry and concealed carry without a permit in the state as long as you're 21 or older it just brought that back just weeks after what happened at the covenant school. then i'm also thinking about this moment 55 years ago today we lost the greatest dreamer to an assassin's bullet in tennessee again. this all culminated at the same time i can't help but remembering conversations with people like arnie duncan, the former education secretary under the obama administration he's so incensed that he's calling for a national boycott of students at schools so people will stop these laws, change the laws for stricter control, not to stop the use of guns, not to challenge the second amendment but just to change the dynamic

not to see our children die senselessly at the hands of guns and machine guns that are military-style weapons as well. >> april, thank you very much for being on this morning. still ahead, covid conspiracy theorists have been sharing videos on social media claiming a comedian died after getting the vaccine, but she didn't she is alive and she sat down with nbc's ben collins to talk about the major misinformation campaign that she never asked to be a part of as we go to break, live pictures from nato headquarters in brussels where nato has officially accepted finland's application to become the 31st member of the military alliance. >> this move is tosuch a histor blow to vladimir putin and russia they now share an 800-mile

border with a nato country because of vladimir putin. this would never have happened but for vladimir putin's historic miscalculation. president biden issued a statement reading in part, together, strengthened by our newest ally finland, we will continue to preserve trans atlantic security, defend every inch of nato territory and meet any and all challenges we face >> it's a remarkable day for nato, remarkable day for freedom in europe. >> we'll be right back that penetrates. in one spray, get naturally lifted, exceptionally fluid hair. new tresemmé fluid volume haircare. when you stay at a vrbo you always get the whole home not part of it but the whole upstairs the whole downstairs

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the virus that causes shingles is sleeping... in 99% of people over 50. it's lying dormant, waiting... and could reactivate.

shingles strikes as a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. and it could wake at any time. think you're not at risk for shingles? it's time to wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention. in february of last year, comedian named heather mcdonald was performing on stage, talk about how she received the covid vaccine and booster shots when she suddenly collapsed it was captured on video we won't show it because it is graphic. she blamed the collapse on dehydration and the fact she didn't need enough that day. doctors said there was no evidence linking her collapse to the vaccine. the incident has been used by the antivaccine movement to spread covid disinformation.

joining us now, nbc news reporter, ben collins. if you can, walk us through a little bit of what happened, what didn't happen and why it became such a sort of a galvanizing thing for the antivaxx movement. >> so heather did a set in arizona of last year she got up, she was dizzy. and she thought, like, in a normal circumstance, dizzy, sit back down, but she tried to fight through it her family was in the crowd and she couldn't she passed out cracked her skull open got concussed. very scary video but nine months go by, a video comes out called died suddenly a documentary by antivaxxers, they say all these people are dying suddenly of the vaccine. she and everyone else in the documentary are very much still alive, even though the implication that's not the case. the person after her in this documentary, that they show

collapsing, is keyonte george, he's alive, obviously. he's going to be drafted in the nba. but had you hear this, hear died suddenly, great branding, great hashtag, you get the idea there is something going on with the vaccine out there. and that's what they believe, they believe that everybody got vaccinated is just dropping dead. >> amplified by fox news, podcasters, joe rogan among them, who you were saying knew heather, heather knew him and was dm'ing him and saying i'm alive, i'm fine, why are you talking about this >> heather is a famous person. she has a podcast, that is just below rogan's on the apple podcast charts, and it didn't matter she dms him afterwards after he talked about her and he said he suffered from infantstant pharm like instant karma joke. that's that is happening here.

there is a separate ecosystem where facts are just separate and different and i'm going to -- right after this, heading down to marjorie taylor greene's protest and i'm going to -- they have a different set of rules and facts, everything like that. and in that space, antivaxxers are dying everywhere and this is the number one example of it. >> and, by the way, that is so important for you to bring up the fact that joe rogan knew she was alive, he continued lying. it is like, hey, somebody, i won't say, but a national media figure who is friends with joe rogan says he's a great guy, you would love him, you should talk to him i said, the guy that spread the rumor i was a murderer, that donald trump picked up yeah, no, not really i'm not really interested in that but so many people buy into this stuff. i do want to say that what is so fascinating about this story for me is trump people, i got to say, and, of course, i'm jinxing myself here, but trump people over the past year have been okay with me on twitter.

you know, i don't get the overwhelming stuff that i used to get in like '17 and '18 that's not where it comes from i will tell you this, i said on air maybe two months ago that i got a booster, and ca boom so, like, a week, and it was like, you know, i know when i've been attacked by bots in the past on twitter, and it was like that, except i don't think this is bots. i think there is this massive conspiracy theory out there and if you -- these people that are saying i should have the right to do what i want to do, if you tell them what you want to do is wear a mask or get a vaccine, they go crazy and they, like, the crap they put on -- i have people calling me, are you sick, are you in trouble, are you feeling bad from covid

no, i'm pretty good. and yet they will -- today, you watch, they'll do it again i'm saying, forget politics. forget trump forget all these other people. this has been the craziest, like, this misinformation in pure volume i've seen in years. >> yeah, joe i think that the interesting part of what is happening next to this is that there is supposed to be a mass extinction event by now in the antivaxx world. we were all supposed to be dead if we got vaxxed or boosted but we're alive. they're moving the goal post they're saying that some people, like, john fetterman, is a clone or dimar hamlin is a clone, they're saying that body parts i can't mention on tv are rotting off because people are becoming infertile due to the vaccine none of these things are true. it is because of the initial talking points that they assumed everyone would die if you got this shot isn't holding up and instead of moving toward the facts and the science here, they just decided to double and

triple down. >> so you mentioned that pro trump rally marjorie taylor greene is doing, george santos is attending, that's fitting isn't there an idaho lawmaker trying to ban the administration of vaccines because of -- >> all mrna vaccines she's trying to ban them, she introduced legislation to do that i went through her special media and facebook for months and she's been plugging this specific documentary that is just filled with lies. >> wow nbc's ben collins, thank you for that reporting great to have you on this morning. >> it is a big, big day. a big day. the indictment there has been a lot of speculation over the past couple of weeks today, we'll find out much more about the charges. >> yeah, we expect four hours or so from now that the former president of the united states will arrive at 100 center street to the courthouse down there and be arraigned for the first time ever that a president has been charged criminally he'll be fingerprinted

we're not sure yet if there will be a mug shot, some suspect he hopes there will be so he can put it on a t-shirt. this is a day for history. >> yeah. >> let's hope it stays peaceful. >> historic moment, sad moment that does it for us this morning. jose diaz-balart and lindsey reiser pick up the coverage after a quick break. for muscle h versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv

it is 10:00 a.m. in new york i'm lindsey reiser i'll be joined by the next few hours with my colleague jose diaz-balart on a extraordinary day in american history. donald trump in just a matter of hours is set to become the first former president to be arrested and face criminal charges. >> here in new york, outside the d.a.'s office, the feeling is that of anticipation protesters beginning to rally. mayor eric adams urging order