so it looks like people on both sides aren't really believing this but we heard from mykhailo po dol yak. one of the top advisers to the ukrainian president. and he said look, if this information was real, if the kremlin believed they had this real hard data that could actually turn the tide of the war, then the russians wouldn't have released it onto social media platforms like twitter and telegram they have would have held on to it, not told anyone about it and used it to their advantage and that's not what happened zbl sblulth fascinating. matt bradley, appreciate that. and that does it for me today i'll see you right back here tomorrow at noon eastern and sunday at 1:00 p.m. eastern. and be sure to tune in monday at 10:00 a.m. eastern for the premiere of "ana cabrera reports. "deadline: white house" starts right now. ♪ hi there, everyone it's 4:00 in new york.

we can feel it, right? in the moment yesterday. that history was being made in the state of tennessee yes, of course it was shameful that it came to all of that. expelling two state lawmakers ostensibly on procedural grounds over peaceful protests but ask yourself this. if the ultimate goal of any demonstration is to draw attention, to shine a light on injustice, then who is really better off as we come on the air less than 24 hours later today the tennessee republican party or those three democrats of whom they sought to make an examine pl representatives justin jones, justin parson and gloria johnson, they lit the match that started a bonfire, one that burned from coast to coast as americans watch transfixed yesterday afternoon into the evening on the east. now millions across our country are infinitely more aware not just of the barriers to do anything more than nothing about

the epidemic of gun violence but of rank anti-democratic fervor among republicans. >> we are still here and we will never quit >> we called for you all to ban assault weapons. and you respond with an assault on democracy >> keep watching to the nation, keep watching we are losing our democracy. we need to make sure that we stomp you out this march to fascism. >> these themes, gun safety and republicans' abuse of power, are not the only part of this story consistent with what we've observed on a national level because the issue of race, racism to be specific is not here as well when we last met it was only justin jones that had been expelled between 4:00 and 6:00 p.m. yesterday and his colleague justin pearson later met the same fate. but surprisingly or maybe not at

all representative gloria johnson, who is white, was not removed from her office by the republican super majority in t. tennessee. almost immediately she recognized the disparity and elaborated on msnbc this morning. >> to see how they were questioned in a different way from me. i had some republican colleagues say things like, well, you know, they didn't show contrition or they have a -- the younger generation has a different way of speaking, they have a different way of addressing things i am a 60-year-old schoolteacher. i might talk a little more level tone and that sort of thing. but it was very clear what this was about. >> to all of us. this afternoon a testament to just how far and just how wide this story has spread, the vice president of these united states, kamala harris, is making a late change to her itinerary, her planned schedule today

air force two expected to touch down in tennessee later this hour we understand she'll meet with the three democrats. we will have a chance to talk to representative, former representative now justin jones, about all this in a minute we begin here at the table joining us right now the reverend al sharpton, host of msnbc's "politics nation," and president of the national action network. basil schmeichel also here, democratic strategist and director of the public policy program at hunter college. also joining us for the hour former republican congressman and msnbc contributor david jolly is here. rev, if you wanted to tell the whole country a story about race and if you wanted to tell the whole story a country about the republican commitment to doing nothing about guns, in tennessee 71% of tennesseans before the mass shooting at the school wanted legislation passed on background checks. over 60% wanted legislation on red flag laws. only 30% of tennesseans wanted an armed presence at all the schools.

if you wanted to tell the story a country about republicans' embrace of authoritarian tactics and the toolkit, you would script something like what happened yesterday but the republicans are so ham-fisted they just did it. >> you know, the first chairman of the board we had at national action network was reverend wyatt t. walker, who was martin luther king's chief of staff and he told me something i thought about yesterday. he said you know, al, when we decided to take on public accommodations, dr. king and i, we combed the south to figure out where to go. we went to birmingham because we knew bull connor would sic the dogs and dramatize what we couldn't get publicity on. i don't think these three picked the legislature because i don't think they thought they'd be that crazy but it was set up -- people like us that are in civil rights or in activism need to have opponents like that to make your issue. they didn't have to do anything. they did it.

and they rose to the occasion, these two young men and this young lady, representative johnson, all of them will be on my show this weekend i was so proud at how they handled it because they didn't do it in a self-serving way. they did it by raising the issue above their own personalities. and they did it talking about how they were peaceful there's not been one brick thrown, not one window broke, even with the anger. and i think you've got to give them a lot of credit the only violence we've seen in nashville was the shooting they are protesting the guns on >> it's incredible it's about on the republican side more than suppressing the message about guns right? it's about eliminating -- these representatives can't exist because why? what is the bigger thing at stake here

what is the terror that the predominantly white, predominantly male -- i didn't see anyone who wasn't white or male but i didn't check. why can't that co-exist with representatives who are female or young or black? why can't -- why did they have to be expelled why did this come to this, do you think? >> they had to send a message that you stay in your place and that we made a decision and that's the way it is, this is our culture, how dare you come in -- first of all, you're lucky to even be in the legislature. you're lucky we let you in the room and you're going to protest? you're going to raise questions about us so we're going to use you -- which was the old thing in the south. they whipped one guy in front of the rest so you'd know this is what you're going to get but they didn't understand we're not in the 1800s anymore and we're not in even 1940 and that's for women and particularly these blacks. and i give a lot of credit to representative johnson

she didn't make excuses for them i was on with her this morning on "morning joe. i told you she'd be on with me this weekend she said there's only one reason they treated me different. and she only was restored by one vote by one vote. she almost went with them. and i think that the multiracial, the interracial, intergenerational fight that they have put in front of those cameras really has energized the anti-gun movement in a marvelous way. >> which isn't just the democratic party in tennessee 71% of tennesseans, we know they're not all democrats or the legislature wouldn't look like what it looks like, are for gun safety legislation. more than 60% are for background -- 71% are for background checks. more than 60% are for the red flag law legislation the idea that these men represent more tennesseans than any of those republican members seems inconceivable to any of those republicans.

>> to me right now they represent more americans than anyone in that chamber ever did. >> correct >> and i'll pick up on something you said, rev. the message that that legislature is saying is don't be uppity. they're saying you have nothing except for what we've given you. and it's not just the speaker of that chamber saying that they are saying that for all of white supremacy to those young men and that young woman and to me i actually, in watching all of this unfold, i thought a lot about my grandmother. why? because she used to read the bible to me. and as rev is sitting here i thought about my book of daniel. those young men, meshach, shad rac and abendigo who were thrown in the fire and survived that because of their faith and wound up converting everyone around them that is the position that justin pearson, justin jones and gloria johnson are in at this moment. it's an important moment because as you talk about where the

country is, whether it's gun control, whether it's reproductive rights, the movement of my generation was largely anti-apartheid this could be the movement of the next generation. >> totally >> it is democratization it is expanding democracy, bringing more people in and not practicing the policy of exclusion and punishment which is what we saw unfold in conti tennessee. and i hope this sends a message not just to the people of tennessee but to the rest of the country, particularly young people who were so helpful to democrats in the midterms, that this is a moment that you can seize on in the tradition of an elijah cummings, in the tradition of a john lewis, who protested on the floor of the house in 2016, if you remember that, by sitting down. it's in that tradition that these young people could rally around -- these two young men in particular, to push the entire establishment back >> david jolly, my special debt

to the political conversation is my participation in republican politics that laid the foundation for this. and my -- if i have one desire, it's to pull the alarm and ring it as loud as i can about what that party has become. i'm so disgusted by what the party is their silence as donald trump tramples across democratic norms. their acceptance and greenlighting and complicity in his annihilation of the rule of law that manifests in local prosecutors having to be the only people in the country with the you know whats to hold him accountable for crimes he commits in broad daylight and tweets about afterward so for me to have an opportunity yesterday to come on the air at 4:00 and broadcast for two hours straight what the republican party is today from top to bottom, to east to west, from north to south was a privilege but the terror i feel in not seeing a single republican from

east to west, north to south condemn what the tennessee republicans did exceeds anything i've felt over the last seven years. what do you make of it >> yeah. very similar reaction, nicolle remarkable moment for tennessee republicans but also national republicans for their complicity in this. consider what they just said to the country. they said you thought we were really bad on gun policy let us show you how much worse we are on issues of race that was the message they projected into the country yesterday. i think that's what y. what we saw yesterday has pierced the conscience of americans today, is because it highlights two areas where america has spectacularly failed, and it has largely spectacularly failed because of republicans' inaction or deliberate inaction on these issues we have children dying at the hands of gun violence in american schools and republicans refuse to do anything about it we have a country today that remains fully tethered at best

to implicit racism and implicit bias but often to the very raw exposed racism that we saw yesterday and the opportunity here and the forward-looking energy, if you will, is that justin pearson and justin jones, each of them have only served a matter of months one just over 60 days in the house. one just over 90 days in the house. their legacy today is far richer and greater than the 12 years of the tennessee speaker of the house ever will be this is a galvanizing moment not just on the issue of guns but also on the he shissue of race n the fundamental issue of a democracy for all people >> this is the thing we've had this conversation around this table, all four of us, about voting on democracy, do people get it but this takes brad raffensperger's and gabe sterling's defenses of the voter suppression laws in georgia, the

public statements after the latest mass shooting, what are you going to do, we're going to do nothing i'm not putting that on them that's what they said in front of microphones and then these republicans saying that a peaceful protest cannot happen, it cannot exist before we buried three murdered 9-year-olds in the latest mass school shooting. i think this knits together the democracy voter with the gun safety voter, with the this is what america looks like today, it's not male and white and old voter. and i think the opportunity for democrats is seismic >> i absolutely agree. and as you said it's stitching all of these points together to say that there is a minority of power in this country that is intent upon exercising that over the masses even if you think about the folks that were sent out on january 6th, they're not the architects they're insurrectionists they got arrested, they got

convicted and went to jail but the people who are still the architects of that, the people who still pushed all those buttons are still walking around that there is a small -- >> walking around? they're running the replied sizs politicization committee >> weaponizing every tool they have in their war chest in government and when you think about that, there has never been -- well, there were probably several points in time we could do this in our history but in the modern history, in my time in politics this is a moment where i have to say that young people can drive this bu for the rest of us they will save us, i think >> but if we look -- talk about threading. if we just look at this last week it shows you where it's going. sometimes you read the times you're in. since last friday we've seen the former president arrested and indicted we saw a black progressive win for mayor of chicago when he was not supposed to win. and we end in tennessee with blatant racism --

>> and in the middle of wisconsin a progressive -- >> i was getting ready to -- >> and we see wisconsin that wasn't supposed to win so people are becoming alert and voting and starting to -- this is all in one week, wisconsin, chicago, and the exposure in tennessee and the arrest of donald trump with the masses that he said was going to protest didn't show up. marjorie taylor greene and george santos showed up almost alone. >> they got out of their suvs for like 19 seconds. >> they forgot to get there. but i think that's why there's hope for putting this together there's nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come i think people said wait a minute, we're not giving you this country like that you must remember we're not even talking about an hbcu, a black school this was a white religious school, covenant school in

nashville, and they're acting like it's all right to shoot young white 9-year-olds. i mean, how much do they think they can get away with in their racism that others are saying wait a minute, you're talking about my kids now and you're going to expel something for protesting about my kids i think that when you get drunk with power and bias you lose all sense -- what is it, who do gods destroy? they first make man. i think they've gotten politically mad and don't realize they're talking to the average tennessean when they see 9-year-old kids in body bags and you're fighting for people to have the right to have seven weapons legally that they should not have had >> yeah. there is a piece of this, david jolly, that republicans now require men and women, old and young, of every race, of every creed to abandon what they can see and hear and smell and donald trump said it and this isn't today about donald trump

but it is about the trumpism that has taken over. it didn't infect the republican party. it took it over. there is no more gop it is donald trump and the trumpian movement, which now has replaced the republican party in this country and if you don't want to vote for the democrat, and there isn't an independent, it is now if you vote for the republicans, what you're voting for is voter suppression out in the open. they don't say it isn't. they may call them election integrity laws, but they're voter suppression laws on guns they have said out loud at the microphones what are you going to do, we're going to do nothing, we can do nothing 85% of the country doesn't want to do nothing about mass shootings becoming the new norm. when that phone alert goes off, my first trepidation, my first fear -- it used to be anticipation that maybe someone would charge trump with a crime. it has been replaced by trepidation that there's been another mass shooting in america. and the third piece is newer but i think people get it.

it is if we don't win the election we'll impeach them. that is already what the chatter is on the right about the new state supreme court justice in wisconsin. it is a full embrace of autocratic practices and behaviors and policies that has now completely taken over and replaced the old republican party. >> yeah, look, this is the foundational theme of what ultimately culminated in january 6th and then continued in the change and altering of state election laws throughout the country to give republicans the tools to deny democracy, to deny suffrage, to deny the franchise. and largely they're denying not just democratic partisan votes but they're denying the votes of marginalized communities, black and brown communities around the country. and i would suggest that kind of the umbrella to all that, nicolle, is the audacity for them to tell you what you're seeing you're not really seeing. so we want you to engage in all these anti-democratic themes and

if that's what we have to do to stop you that's what we will do. but when you call us on it we're actually going to tell you that's not what you're seeing, you can't believe your own eyes. i think it goes back to something rev said at the very beginning, which is the lesson from yesterday i think is fundamentally a question of race where white legislators in old tennessee told black legislators stay in your place, stay in your place. there's no other thematic here except for that. and i think that is the critical thing that america woke up to today, that in this year that a white legislative body will tell to young black legislators your voice doesn't matter and i want to defeat the equivalents that a lot of republicans are giving where they want america to think oh, this is the same as january 6th. we had obstruction of a proceeding in january 6th. it is qualitatively different not just because tennessee was peaceful, january 6th was violent, but also because of this the three members in question here were sxersing their representation of their constituencies within the

chamber. now, republican members did that on january 6th and you could shout them down saying they were lies and they were full of conspiracies but look what law enforcement does they give elected members wide berth to give voice to their constituents the people who were arrested and charged with january 6th were the true people that obstructed the proceeding, those from outside of the process these three tennessee members were within the process, exercising a voice on behalf of their constituents they were not kicked out because of that voice. they were kicked out because they were black. and i think america today has to acknowledge that >> president, i want you to respond to that but i also want to share what president obama had to say about this. "this nation was built on peaceful protest no elected official should lose their job simply for raising their voice, especially when they're doing it on behalf of our children what happened in tennessee is the latest example of a broader erosion of civility and democratic norms silencing those who disagree with us is a sign of weakness, not strength, and it won't lead

to progress. >> no doubt about it when you look at how the representative -- former representative now pearson outlined the egregious behavior of some that are in that legislature now, i mean, sexual harassment, all kind of stuff. urinating on one of their fellow lawmakers' hair. and that didn't get them expelled you know the only reason they did this is you boys stay in your place, how dare you raise a question of safety or anything else you're lucky you're in here. because if it was about conduct how did they excuse all the conduct that he categorically listed for them and therefore the nation to see? this is about race but unfortunately for them a lot of whites, a lot of their children, a lot of young whites are standing out in front of that capitol building saying we're not going back there and we're going to fight about gun safety but we're going to do it

together and again, representative johnson, even though they saved her position, she walked out arm in arm with those two -- >> all right so no one's going anywhere let me tell you a little bit of what we're juggling. when we come back, we anticipate we'll have an opportunity to speak with expelled state representative justin jones on what the late john lewis described as good trouble. from sitins to marches to boycotts how what we are watching happen in tennessee contributes to long-standing all-american legacy of the most powerful and impactful peaceful protest plus gun rights activist congressman jared moskowitz will be here along with fred guttenberg, our dear friend, dear friend of this program, talking about this moment and how emotional it's been for him to watch the week's events later in the show we'll get to the january 6th investigations questions begin to swirl about one of the biggest mysteries around the insurrection. what happened to those missing

secret service text messages that new reporting and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere today.

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(woman) yes! (vo) request a cash offer at opendoor dot com. sometimes you have to do something out of the ordinary. sometimes you have to make a way out of no way. we have been too quiet for too long there comes a time when you have to say something, when you have to make a little noise >> that's right. >> when you have to move your feet this is the time now is the time to get in the

way. the time to act is now we will be silent no more. the time for silence is over >> i've seen that so many times and it's amazing every single time that was seven years ago basil mentioned that moment when congressman john lewis, the civil rights icon, who was just 23 years old when he spoke at the march on washington, led a sit-in on the house floor over republicans' refusal to hold a vote on, wait for it, gun safety legislation following the mass shooting, the massacre at pulse nightclub in orlando, florida. joining our conversation, one of the two expelled tennessee democratic lawmakers, justin jones. it's a privilege to get to talk to you thank you for making time for us. >> thank you so much >> we were covering the vote for your expulsion live, and we'd spoken to you the day before we had some sense of what might be coming down

but your comments were prescient. you talked about the world watching the world certainly was and is and so we wanted to ask you what comes next >> i think what comes next is really up to the speaker, cameron sexton because what comes next is still the same demand for our children to live in a community where they don't have to live in fear of these mass shootings, of these weapons of war on our streets. when i saw that video of john lewis it made me emotional because i was an intern in washington when he led that sit-in i remember sitting outside the house, sitting outside the capitol building in d.c. until 2:00, 3:00 a.m. waiting for them to come out. i'm 27 years old now, the youngest -- formerly was the youngest black lawmaker in tennessee and i just know that that good trouble is exactly what we were doing so thank you for playing that clip of congressman john lewis >> representative, gloria johnson told us the day before the expulsion that h.r. came to see her and said if she resigned she could keep her health care and if she was expelled she would lose it.

did you get the same visit from h.r. >> no. h.r. did not come to my office no one came to my office so we didn't know the rules of how that hearing would go. we didn't understand the process. it was a kangaroo court. and so it seemed like they were making up rules and decisions moment by moment so no one came to my office and no one spoke to me until the day of our hearing about 30 minutes before >> can you tell our viewers what rights you do and don't have in the super minority in the texas legislature and what in their view -- tennessee legislature. what in the tennessee legislature you were not allowed to do. because i think a lot of people are missing this piece, that you were not allowed to give voice to your own constituents that seems to most people like the most basic function of a representative in a state legislature. >> i mean, definitely. again, i'm 27 and you often hear if you want to do something you can run for office so i ran for office, was elected and went into the legislature hoping i could voice these concerns for my district

you're shut down in committee. they don't call on you to speak on bills they just call the question without any type of deliberation because they have 75 members we had 24. now there's only 22 democrats. i mean, it's a party and it is a supermajority that is drunk with power. and the world saw yesterday that there's no democracy in tennessee. our legislature is the opposite. it is autocracy. and it should scare us all that day -- the day of our protest, in fact that whole week we tried to talk about the crisis of mass shootings following the massacre at covenant elementary school and rather than let us talk they shut us down they turned off our microphones. when i went outside to just go stand in solidarity with the protesters i went back in and my voting machine was cut off, something i'd never seen on the house floor because the speaker said you couldn't go in and out anymore. that was never ai rule enforced. just the whole process was a mockery of democracy and it's really scary with yesterday's vote the precedent that has been set for the nation in other states to follow.

>> what do you think republicans thought would happen do you think they thought you'd go quietly, we wouldn't notice that they expelled and disenfranchised your constituents >> i mean, i think a lot of people were shocked about the hearing yesterday and shocked about what they witnessed. but that was actually them tame. i mean, this is the normal type of arrogance of power we see on full display every time i work in that building and it's very hard being a young black man to work in a legislature where you have such political hubris and arrogance and condescension. i think they thought no one -- they had ultimate authority and no one would challenge them because they're so used to shutting down any voices of opposition you see they expelled us they thought it would be over because it wasn't about us, though, it was about our movement, which is why we are still here, which is why the world is watching. instead of silencing the movement they put a spotlight on tennessee and the smahame of ou legislature that is so counter to democracy and a symbol for america of our deepest shame, which is trying to bring us back to 1963 instead of 2023.

>> it is clear that the -- we were on the air when your vote was taking place, and shame is what the protesters assembled and they were all ages they were male and female. i'm sure many were your constituents but they seemed to come from all over tennessee it is clear that your position on gun safety legislation is the position of the majority of your state. what reforms are necessary for that body to not be so broken that it doesn't even represent the people of tennessee? >> i mean, we have a party that has hijacked our democratic process by rigged maps, voter suppression. in tennessee one in five men can't vote because of felony disenfra disenfranchisement we have a party that has stolen our democracy and so that the will of the voters is erased in order to appeal to the nra and the tennessee firearms association. just this week in the aftermath of that mass shooting at covenant the education committee pushed forward a bill to allow

teachers to carry guns in schools though all the teachers who were there testified against it this party is so arrogant and it's being led by speaker cameron sexton, who is an extremist and is pushing this very harmful agenda not just for us but for our children and generations to come. >> your colleague, former representative justin pearson, talked about knowing people who'd lost their lives to gun violence gloria johnson also talked about surviving a school shooting as a teacher. your state is grieving i believe when these protests erupted all the funerals hadn't taken place for the six people, three 9-year-old children who'd been murdered in that school shooting was there ever any consideration from the republicans there to join hands with the democrats and propose anything that tennesseans would like to see on the topic of gun safety legislation? >> not at all. their only proposals were to put our heads into the sand and ignore the issue they proposed putting more locks on doors, more security.

but these are not solutions to weapons of war in our streets. this is a uniquely american problem and in a state that is so obsessive and that almost worships gun culture our governor signed a slew of gun bills in a gun factory i mean, it's just so -- it's so scary. we should all be alarmed at what's happening in tennessee. we can't even talk there's no opportunity to collaborate. the speaker intimidates members and tries to get us to just bow down and back down in committee if you don't your microphone's cut off even before i was expelled my i.d. badge was shut off. i was kicked off my committees i was shut out of the parking garage i couldn't even park in the legislative parking garage anymore. just petty things to try and voices of dissent. and it's very scary. and the nation saw exactly what we're dealing with in tennessee. and if it can happen in tennessee the warning is that it can happen anywhere in america >> so congresswoman barbara lee

was on while your vote was taking place, and she became emotional when this vote to actually expel you had happened. even though you were expecting it, what were your emotions at that moment? >> i mean, it didn't feel real, to be quite honest we went through that hour-long hearing, and they asked all these questions and they got to the vote and it -- you know, they took -- they had the vote it was completely partisan that was historic in tennessee history. and i hugged my colleagues, told them it was a pleasure to work with you all because i have enjoyed -- my democratic colleagues i should say. it was a pleasure to work with them and i went to go take my name plate off my desk, pack my bag and i walked up to the gallery to go wait for my other two colleagues to let them know i'm in solidarity with them. but it was surreal because it's something that if i didn't know it was happening to me i wouldn't know that we were in america anymore. >> yeah, that's what it felt

like watching. i saw you go hug representative gloria johnson and then i saw the throngs of press waiting for you outside. and we were glad to hear your comments afterward you started by saying that the speaker still has a lot of control about what happens next. but if the path is clear legally and procedurally for you to return to the legislature, will you return >> definitely. there are 78,000 people in district 52, one of the most diverse districts in tennessee that don't have a voice right now. i was elected to fight for them. and i will continue to fight for them inside or outside the chamber. i will definitely come back. the question is whether they will seat me i believe this decision yesterday was unconstitutional i believe if he tries to refuse to seat me it would be unconstitutional but we know that we have a supermajority that yesterday they just burned the state constitution they do not believe in our sfun it seems like. they just believe that they have ultimate power and that any voice of opposition must be silenced

we'll see what the speaker does. but what i can tell you is they've lost an entire generation that all these young people, the thousands who were gathered watching them, they have lost them and this party, their power is temporary. that the speaker's time is coming to an end and that these young people when they turn out and vote, when they use their power we will transform this state and in doing so transform this nation. >> justin jones, we were transfixed by everything you had to say yesterday you and representative johnson and former representative pearson spoke to the public and brought us through exactly what was taking place so for doing that thank you very much we'll stay on this and you always have an invitation to be a part of these conversations. thank you very much for spending time with us today i know there are a lot of dimds demands on your time thank you. >> thank you >> basil, i don't know where to start. you go >> well, the two things that he said, the first that when you're

thinking about the fact that he represents tens of thousands of people -- >> 77,000 -- >> yeah. people who've put their hopes and dreams and aspirations for themselves and their children in his hands. i've run for office before rev has run for office before. my little state senate seat that i tried to run for seven years ago. when a voter comes up and says i believe in you and you tell them and promise them that i'm going to help make your life better if you support me, that is an incredible bond you have with the voter. and he took that seriously he took it to the state house. and to see how just methodically they stripped away piece after piece of him to get rid of the opportunity he had to represent those individuals is just heartbreaking. the public advocate's name is jom ni williams. he says something all the time that i embrace and i do in this moment when people say the system is broken he'll say, and i absolutely agree, the system is working exactly the way it was intended to. to promote and to shield people in positions of power to

suppress those that do not and that's what he's calling attention to that's what justin jones is calling attention to, that there are folks in this country who are afraid of the changes that are coming in this country and they're using every weapon in their toolbox to suppress and oppress. >> but justin jones is not cynical. he's more optimistic than i feel >> i think that you have to be optimistic to go out and fight this every day and you have to really at some point, you almost feel sorry for your adversaries as mean-spirited as they are because they don't understand, you cannot fight what is happening because the time has come that your time of doing what you did the way you did it is coming to an end. people are not accepting that anymore. think about that not only does jones represent 78,000, they voted for a 27-year-old. i mean, the speaker needs to wake up and realize when you see

20-year-olds getting elected in tennessee, black with an afro, this is not archie bunker days anymore. so in many ways you pity their stupidity for themselves but at the same time you must fight. and again i underscore how proud i am and i talked to representative jones earlier today, even off -- after talking to him on "morning joe. how proud i am to see another generation -- i mean, i learned from the john lewis, jesse jackson generation they're doing it, and they're doing it with dignity. they're doing it with you couldn't say there was one altercation out there. and they're fighting to stop people from being able to kill people i mean, let's not forget -- >> all of our kids they're fighting for everybody >> they're fighting for our kids what are you angry at? i mean, you have this kind of venom? even if you disagree with them why would you have the venom for people fighting for your grandchildren not to get shot in school

other than your bigot and your emotions driving you, boys, you get in your place. do you understand me you get in your place. because other than that why would you have that kind of venom for people that's just begging to maintain lives? >> it's amazing. all right. we are going to make a slight pivot here but we're going to have that conversation that the rev is talking about david jolly, thank you for being part of our coverage today up next, how the emotion of the last two weeks is hitting activists who have lived through all of this before our dear friend fred guttenberg joins us along with florida congressman jared moskowitz. don't go anywhere. we'll have that conversation next and ask your doctor about biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in certain adults. it's not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to and stay undetectable. that's when the amount of virus is so low it cannot be measured by a lab test. research shows people who take h-i-v treatment every day and get to and stay undetectable can no longer transmit h-i-v through sex.

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fourth grade kids writing signs about not wanting guns in their schools? sorry. it's -- it's ridiculous that they're just like let's throw more guns at the problem >> the tennessee legislature has been increasingly turning to extremist actions and we're saying we won't stand for it we know it's not drag, we know it's not books that's harming children that have been banned in the name of protecting kids it's guns. and it's killing every single day. >> the reality is there are some people who are silent. they're dead there are three 9-year-olds who will never serve in this general assembly, who will never be able to march, who will never be able to protest, who will never be able to raise their voice about this issue someone with an assault rifle went into the school and shot 152 rounds what reason does any reasonable person have to have an assault

rifle? >> protesters at the tennessee capitol including the other justin, the other ousted member of the legislature, former representative justin pearson, begging politicians there to take action, to do something to save the lives of tennesseans ahead of potentially the next mass shooting. they want them to do something, anything that could have a meaningful impact on the epidemic of gun violence in their state and across the country. it has not even been two weeks since the shooter at the covenant school took the lives of six people there, including 9-year-olds hallie scruggs, evelyn dieckhaus and william kinney as well as substitute teacher cynthia peak, the custodian mike hill, and head of school katherine koonce. that state's proposed solutions so far have been funding for more security guards and pushing for arming the teachers. while the legislature was busy expelling members of the body

for speaking out against this uniquely american plague, the gun violence archive tweeting that this year so far there have been 4,686 deaths due to gun violence 141 mass shootings and 65 children killed by guns but let's ban the bullhorns, guys joining our conversation democratic congressman jared moskowitz of california -- florida. i wanted you to be from california i'm sorry. of florida he's a graduate of marjory stoneman douglas high school and our dear friend fred gutten berg is back his daughter jaime of course was killed at marjory stoneman dug'lless. he's author of the book "american carnage: shootering the myths that fuel gun violence." fred, i've been thinking about you all week and i've been thinking this has to be so traumatic and so triggering, and so i respected your space at the beginning of the week but i

couldn't make it through the whole week without talking to you. so here you are. tell me what you've been thinking >> you know, the day the shooting happened -- excuse me you tried to get me on the show that day i couldn't do it i actually was on vacation i was trying to take my first genuine mental health break in five years and nicolle, since that day i've actually been kind of feeling sorry for myself while feeling depressed and down over what i've been watching unfold in tennessee. and then this morning i went to the cemetery to visit jaime. and jared's on this interview. and for those who have followed our story, you know i consider jared one of my closest friends. but that happened because of gun violence jared called me, not knowing i was at the cemetery. and so we spoke for a brief

minute it's where i had to go to get grounded, to get refocused, to get centered because at the end of the day it is always about the victims of gun violence i am over any feelings of sadness for myself but i want to say this about tennessee. and to the racists who serve in that state who have been peddling a series of lies over what they think about democracy, what they think about guns, and clearly now what they think about victims of gun violence. because what's amazing is they skipped right over the thoughts and prayers part it didn't even exist after this they went right to the bull hit o shit, excuse me language and so i really am furious.it shit, excuse me language and so i really am furious.t shit, excuse me language and so i really am furious.

shit, excuse me language and so i really am furious.shit. and so i really am furious but also watching the two just continues and i've rarely been as inspired. at the end of my book, very last paragraph is a message to young people where i tell them you have moments in your life some bigger than others, and what matters more than the moment is not the moment it is what you did next. it is what you do next that will always define you and and those who amazing young men will never be defined by that vote yesterday. they are going to be defined by everything that they have done since and they will be defined by what they will do going forward when they leave tennessee and this country and they show us the best of democracy. and i will go back to the racists that they are now going to take on if you think that your fear, if you think your weakness of what

you don't understand is going to stop them, bring it. because i'm going to tennessee, i'm going to join them and so will people from across this country. yesterday was a defining moment and those two amazing young men, they have inspired me in a way that i never ever thought could happen over the past week. >> but i don't see them as disconnected from you. you and maxwell frost and justin -- the two justins and gloria johnson are all part of this, you know, i'm from san francisco is so there an always an earthquake analogy, but there is this push before the violence breaking of the tectonic plates. and that is what i think has happened i think that you put it into motion i think the parkland survivors in on or of jamie and the other friends and colleagues that they lost i think it is all put in motion.

republicans have not woken up to the right that we'll be safe in school, on our right to vote and they need us to be out fighting those fights separately women fighting for health care, young people fighting -- but the problem is that they are on brazen and so emboldened that they have lumped it all together and we see them. and i think that you pushed one of the first boulders down the hill >> and you know, but what makes them emboldened, they took advantage of a fact that americans as a general rule of thumb did a terrible job of voting and what i mean of that, not enough of us have voted. and they knew that and they have taken advantage of that to put themselves in position that they are in now.

voting solves problems and i just have to believe that with everything that you just laid out, you are going to see an epic turnout. and you will see americans show up in the voting booths unlike ever before. and i've listened to your show all day today as well as other days where we talk about the young people and the young people are amazing. and we need to keep them inspired and voting. excuse me my allergies but here is the thing. older people like me, you need to show up and vote as well. you can't sit at home. and moms who keep fighting for safety, they need to be joined by dads. it is time to stop waiting for someone else to solve it because if you don't become a part of the solution, the next time it will be someone that you love >> and i want to bring harrison

into this. what did you have to -- you called him and you didn't know he was at the cemetery you can tell us about the conversation >> thanks for having me. i called to check in with fred i know every time there is a shooting especially at a school it triggers all of the parents parkland was something that inspire the country, inspired a lot of young people and what happened in tennessee for different reasons i wanted to talk to fred and what his thoughts are because i think that the republican snowflakes in the legislature made a terrible m miscalculation i think for someone who served in minority and florida house, your vote is irrelevant. what you have is your voice. and what the republicans and legislature have done to justin squared, they have given these two gentlemen a voice much

larger than they ever had by being in the super minority in the legislature. and they made a horrible ins take, the republicans did, by doing this and you are hearing that the council made appoint one back in their position as the interim. and so this story is not over. this will bring more attention to the issue i mean, we've heard a lot about books. look, i'm sure there are books that don't belong in school and i'll join my republican colleagues on finding the books that might be inappropriate for certain ages and we've heard a lot about drag queens and i'll join my republican colleagues because obviously there is material that is not age appropriate. but when are they going to join us on the number one threat to children which is gun violence can which is people who don't have the mental capacity to have weapons of war, being able to get weapons of war very easily when are they going to join us on trying to deal with the gun

violence epidemic which is the number one threat to schoolchildren that is what fred and i talk about. we talk about how we're inspired by the two representatives, how the republicans showed their true colors. i think that they made a horrific political mistake but fred and i like to talk about the positives of these things that happen because obviously, you know, if we dwell on the fact that five years later from parkland we're still dealing -- even with the progress we've made, and we've made progress, you know, every time you secure a school, every time you put an sro in, every time that you pass red flag law, you are mitigating the damage. but fred and i know that until we ban assault weapons and get ar-15s off the street, you know, kids are just not going to be safe in the schools. >> and fred, i don't know if you can see this, but to our other conversation about what has been put in motion, the vice

president of the united states is wheels down in tennessee, i think. can we see the picture again she has changed her schedule and she is traveling to nashville to meet with the three democratic representatives. and the super minority there but to your point, everybody is listening. world was watching yesterday >> and one more group that needs to listen and that is the business community there are companies, manufacturers, like nissan, volkswagen and others, that have set down shop in tennessee they employ a lot of people. and they took a lot of tennessee tax dollars while meeting with the racist legislatures to get the factories there. they need to speak out and say we're not okay with this

this community needs to call out the racism in the legislature, needs to call out those who did this or americans should stop buying those particular cars. we can stop -- listen, nicolle, republicans have been embolden ed, saying things and get away with it because it never seemed like that it would go further. they are now at a place where we know that it is just -- if they get this one, they will go further. and so it is now time for an all-hands on deck, for voters, for legislatures, for media, and for the business community that has benefitted from decisions by those legislatures to step up and do the right thing or we americans, we get to vote in the voting booth and also with our dollar >> fred, congressman, reverend, thank you all so much for this

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reached up toward the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel and grabbed his arm and said sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel, we're going back to the west wing, we're not going to the capitol mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge toward bobby engel and when he recounted the story to me, he motioned toward his clavicles. >> hi again. it is 5:00 in new york and the revelations about just what happened between the ex-president and the secret service on january 6 were among the most shocking and unexpected moments from the select committee's public hearings. and when it was discovered that the secret service's text messages from january 6 and 5

were all today eithake either l raised all sorts of questions. and former committee members raised at alarm bells back in . >> honestly, i'm concerned that the inspector general had sat on this information for a considerable period of time. and we just learned about it last friday -- last thursday it has been a week he has known about it for months and months and months why did we learn only now from the secret service and the inspector general about this we're going to try to find out as much as we can. it is not just the text messages

obviously that we're interested in, but all of the communication s the secret service has >> it was a real moment in the committee's work like the sound of a needle swiping across a record if you are old enough to know what that sounds like. and the committee later did receive a lot of records from the secret service, but not the texts. and questions remained around the ig well, for you there is brand new reporting in the "washington post" that says this, quote, nearly two year investigation into allegations of misconduct by the department of homeland security's chief windchatchdog banded this weekend. investigators demanded records related to the deleted texts of the office of the inspector general. appointee of donald trump whose

office shut down the inquiry and this was a crucial piece to the puzzle that the committee was piecing together the committee played for the public describing what they heard from incoming radio traffic that day, a glimpse into your secret service agents were thinking

>> nobody ever came out and publicly refuted that anecdote and it shows just how little the public and congressional committee ever learned about what really happened with pence and his detail on the 6th. one of the last big outstanding questions that special counsel jk jack smith may be closer to answering. mike pence may not appeal the ruling that he testify against the grand jury it could amount to a significant breakthrough in this investigation looking to hold those who incited the deadly insurrection accountable for an attempted coup that has already seen more than 1,000 charged for their crimes and joining us now, congresswoman lofgren.

and also with us andrew weissmann. and harry litman is also with us congresswoman, i start with you. just take us inside what you were able to piece together through the documents you did receive. there was a big dump of emails i believe we talked about. but there is still some sort of a black box of unknown whereabouts and unknown disposition of the text messages, right? >> i think that's correct. and we did find out -- i mean, liz cheney and i really went through the roof labor day of last year getting -- insisting that we get documents. the secretary of homeland security was very supportive but we were getting inconsistent results, let me put it that way, until the secoretary assigned

someone who had been a prior official and we got over a million documents the following monday and i don't know whether they thought we couldn't get through it all, but we did we had people working weekends, nights, lawyers in from other committees to get information that did shed some light on it one of the things that we learned was that the text messages from the secret service were not stored in the cloud in a way that we would ordinarily expect there was records obviously that were destroyed other officials in the department of homeland security did use the cloud to store their text messages, but they would not be -- we found out from the inspector general way after he knew and as soon as we found out, we had him and his staff come into brief us but we didn't get a lot of

information from them and then later on, he suppressed the capacity to investigate which troubled me a great deal so let me just say i think that there is a lot left unknown about what the secret service did in the days and certainly the day of the riot. >> and this isis what the "washington post" is reporting, that this new records request was revealed and federal lawsuit filed by mr. cuffari and his staff suggesting the urgency in this high profile investigation that began with your work. what would the commitment be at this point to continuing to hide this why continue to keep this secret what do you think is sort of the ongoing -- what is he trying to cover up in an ongoing manner? >> well, i don't know the answer

to that. it would just be speculation on my part. but when someone seeks to especially an inspector general keep information from moving out into the public arena does raise suspiciouses you know, i don't have inside info but i'm heartened to know that they are looking in to the inquiry. and what if anything that he is trying to hide, that investigation needs to uncover >> and mike pence will not fight a subpoena to appear before the grand jury investigating the insurrection we had a chance to speak to your former colleague about where -- i mean, the probe got very close to pence through mr. short his chief of staff, mr. jacob, his

chief counsel, testimony about his secret service detail. but what would he open up that the committee wasn't able to learn from the scene yenior aid? >> there were a lot of interactions he had with the president and others who were involved in the president's plot that his staff was unable to testify to they didn't always know about it and i think that he really knows a very great deal about the then president's efforts to overturn the election unlike mark meadows and others, there is no criminal exposure that i could even imagine for the vice president so he will not assert the fifth amendment. and now he will testify i'm sure fully and honestly about everything that he saw and heard. and i think that that is likely to be quite a bit. >> and so we pieced together a

bit of a time line with pence and even back to the summer to suggest that jack smith might want to know when the plan to rig the election or say it was rigged if he lost was put into motion and an email dated in july before the election that certainly early the time line. and then we have dates in january. but just generally speaking, what is sort of your scope of questions about what span would you want to talk to mike pence about? >> i think that all of it. tim was head investigator for the committee. ex-president himself started showing indications of intending to overthrow the election in the spring prior to june but we also had as you mentioned the record of his assistant talking about that we don't know what pence knew

and when he knew it, but i would assume that doj will be asking all those questions and i'm confident that the former vice president will answer. we were unable to talk to him, to question him i think you'd start probably in april when the former president publicly questioned whether he would adhere to it and just go forward. he talked to easteastman, to ot. and the call that he had with the ex-president morning of the 6th will be enlightening i'm sure and also permitted under the court ruling so we'll learn a lot i think from what he says to the doj >> and just one of the four crimes that the committee referred the obstruction of an official proceeding, i'm sure trump's intent has laid bare to mike pence made this morning when he reportedly called him

the p word >> and we had some information from his star, but the vice president took the call upstairs in his residence so his staff did not hear all of it and of course meadows refused to testify and so we don't have all of that call and i'm sure that the president must be burned in his memory and so i'm sure the vice president can tell us. >> so if you are jack smith, you start with the 6th, search you want to understand mike pence's version of that call but if you go back to the 5th, that has been the vice president's chief of staff warned that the vice president could be targeted with violence. you go back to the 4th, that is when pence, trump and eastman were in the oval and 3rd, the coup plot took place. so take me through what warm knife through cold butter jack

smith can cut when he get pence's version of all of those days >> i think that pence had insight into much of the plot because he was being pressured to be a part of the plot which he declined to do ultimately and so they are -- it is really a bonanza for the spk inecial counsel in terms of information. one of the questions getting back to the earlier question about the secret service, i don't think that we got a good expla explanation, doctor would the knowledge that the secret service have the then vice president was sent over with the mob with just a small detail he bury escaped. his detail was afraid that they would lose their lives and we knew actually from the

morning of the 6th that the mob was armed. they refused to go through the magnetometer and yet the secret service allowed that to happen i've never gotten a satisfactory answer to that >> congresswoman, stay with us i want to bring in andrew and harry in and maybe we've emphasized too much his attempt to obstruct the official proceeding. but the vice president and his chief of staff had knowledge of violence and so did robert o'brien who warned on the 5th that there would be violence on the hill how much do you think that jack smith is probing both the violence and the foreknowledge of violence as well as the intent to obstruct the actual goings on? >> there is no reason not to do both the january 5th componentic goe

to the former president's state of mind. and i'm particularly interested on january 5th where if memory serves, that is when the former president sends out a text, or i guess he was still tweeting, and there is a tweet saying that the vice president agrees with me that the vice president has the power to not go forward. and i think that one of the key things that you could get from pence is not just that he disagreed with that, but that the president knew that at the time that he didn't in any way communicate to the president that that was accurate and the reason that is so important is that goes to -- if you can show that the president was lyinging on the 5th, that just really to me, i know a former prosecutors, that to me goes a long way to establish what he was trying to accomplish on the 6th.prosecutors, that to

long way to establish what he was trying to accomplish on the 6th. why not if that is right or i'm missing something to what tvice president could give to jack smith. >> i think he could do that. and they also had a meeting after the 6th sort of brokered by ivanka to sort of get the vice president and ex-ed from tog together i'd like to know about that as well but yes, there is a lot of evidence that we compiled that the then president knew that what he was saying about the law was false and told that multiple times by people. and the vice president knew that the president knew what he was saying was not true. and really i think if you look at all the evidence, he tried

multiple ways to overturn the election through the fake electors, through trying to get the ledges lgislatures together. and by the time -- trying to get the vice president to refuse t back and at the end, august he had left was mob violence to prevent the proceedings. >> and what we were still wondering about is the role that republicans played and what is your sort of lasting theory of the case in terms of how much pence was aware of that they obviously went and voted against certifying, so they didn't agree with his move but how much did the committee suspect or want to understand pence to know about republican

house and senators who participated in the coup plot? >> we didn't get evidence that he was a participant in the plots. but we do believe and did believe that he had insight into what was going on. we know that on december 21, quite a few republican members of congress went over and met with the then president but then would talk to us so we'd like to know more about that meeting some of the texts it looks like that they were happening the plot right there in the oval office >> and harry, one the this inks that i think is clear is that pence was in the room with eastman and heard the whole extravagant plot

and you don't make it sound less legal. they were selling him. he knows the entire plot to illegally overturn the election results. >> and they went for the gusto and then they went for the punch to the jaw look, pence is the victim, congresswoman's committee set out three or four different schemes but the really sort of and one and the most grave was january 6 itself in a sense pence is the victim there. and there is evidence of the phone call and also a meeting in the wings of the oval office that pence alone knows and that is probably the strongest evidence there is. but then in addition there is all the things we don't know he was apparently having his weekly lunches with trump before the election, after the election and all that stuff could be big. and all the stuff with eastman but if nothing else, the two or three conversations that as far as i can tell bury trump on the

specific charge of trying to obstruct the january 6 certification vote because after all, pence was the guy that they needed to do that. so he next to mark me dough is the most important witness >> and there seems to be maybe an obvious question. did you think that he won? ivanka said that i agree with bill barr. isn't that kind of basic information to a jury pretty powerful >> it is the question is what did the president notice and there is substantial really irrefutable evidence that he was told over and over again by his own people that he lost and he knew he lost we even have some evidence where he relay to others that he knew he last. he was acting as if he had lost.

so i don't think that there is really any confusion about that. but former vice president will in fact be able to fill out that information. he was intimately involved with what the president was saying, do doing. even eastman knew it was unlawful and i think that the department justice will get quite a lot of information from the former vice president. i don't know if meadows will take the fifth he has substantial criminal exposure there are others who have criminal abouexposure who may a take the fifth but the former vice president i think will go in and i think answer fully what he is asked. >> congresswoman, thank you very much for being here. andrew and harry stick around.

we're keeping a close eye on nashville where just a few minutes ago kamala harris landed and set to meet with the expelled democratic state representatives. if there are any developments, we'll bring it to you. coming up next for us, just a day after an extraordinary report detailed how clarence thomas went on luxury trips and did not disclose them, brand new reporting revealed that he reported just two gifts since the year 2004. are you tired of clean clothes that just don't smell clean? downy unstopables in-wash scent boosters keep your laundry smelling fresh waaaay longer than detergent alone. if you want laundry to smell fresh for weeks, make sure you have downy unstopables in-wash scent boosters.

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and ask your doctor if biktarvy is right for you. [gum stretches] dang it. [tires pop] dang it. that's some bad luck brian. and i think i'm late on my car insurance. good thing the general gives you a break when you need it. yeah, with flexible payment options to keep you covered. so today is your lucky... oh! [crash] ...day. meteor! [screams] dangit. for a great low rate, go with the general.

i don't have a problem going to europe, but i prefer the united states and prefer seeing the regular parts of the united states i prefer going across the rural areas. i prefer the rv parks. i prefer the walmart parking lots to the beaches and things like that. there is something normal to me about it i come from regular stock and i prefer that. i prefer being around that >> you'll understand why we're laughing that was clarence thomas, a man who loves walmart parking lots at least that is what he would have you believe just the existence of that clip contradicts that it is from a documentary about his life in his own words. and it was financed by a super

yacht-owning dude who has blown open something people have been reporting for years now, has gifted justice thomas vacations that he accepted and never disclosed. and crowe is a real estate mag magnate, a republican mega dough in a, a history of spending millions on ideological efforts to shape and reshape the law in the judiciary. he maintains that they never talked on the super lot about any pending or lower court cases. quote the extent and frequency of crowe's apparent gifts have no known precedent in the modern history of the supreme court and the most aeyebrow racing par of this, thomas kept the gifts

secret the trips appeared nowhere on his financial disclosures. his failure to report it appears to violate a law passed after water gate that requires justices, judges, members of congress and federal officials to disclose most gifts and in a statement that there is a statement is news here, so in a statement that justice thomas insists that he was advised that this sort of personal hospitality from a close personal friends who condition have b -- did not have business before the court was not report him because we all have political friends who are mega donors. and his practice of not reporting what he calls personal hospitality dates back to 2004 the wallinug post says he repord two gifts since 2004 and it is 2023, ladies and gentlemen.post says he reported

gifts since 2004 and it is 2023, ladies and gentlemen. he said that he accepted private plane trips and gifts paid for by, wait for it, by harlan des crowe. and air he reric, this is an in meticulously reported story. and conservative restrained in drawing conclusions. but take me through the reporting news story that you have here. >> sure. thanks for having me so what we found was that justice thomas has been taking luxury trips as a guest of a republican mega donor and real estate magnet from dallas named harlan crowe for years and

years. and though trips were going on private jets and his super yacht. one of the trips that they took for example, they took the private jet to the super yacht to go island hopping in indonesia where they visited com com komoto dragons and enjoyed beaches. and as you said, what we found, it has been going on for years and never disclosed. and the law is quite lear on this

with some exceptions gifts need to be disclosed. one rule is that gifts need to be disclosed and one of the few exceptions is if you are essentially staying at somebody's personal home. but something like taking a private jet just needs to be disclosed. >> and the spirit is if you are at their home, you don't need to report the bagels and cream cheese you have for breakfast. it is not the yacht that you used for island hopping and the private jet that gets you there to see the komono dragons. and so where there is a clarence thomas scandal, there is a engiginn thomas scandal quote, the pair have become genuine friends. details of crowe's relationship with the thomass have emerged. the "new york times" reported on

his generosity towards the justice. and politico revealed that crowe had given half a million to a tea party group founded by ginni thomas which also paid her $12,000 salary but the full-scale has never been revealed. you know, i worked in government and financial disclosure also includes your spouse's behavior pup don't have to be a smart snake to figure out that giving to the politicians spouse or kids is a way to get right at them what do we know about ginni thomas this reporting suggests that she took a salary and big donation from crowe >> well frrksom thomas' financil disclosures we know very little because there has been few such details disclosed. one of the issues here is that again the supreme court lives in very much a policing itself

rules vacuum and so there are these rules about disclosures. we know few details. >> and something sort of meta about crowe where thomas doesn't say anything about jets and super yachts but says i like walmart parking lots and rvs >> and i was going to point out one fun fact which is that in one of those clips where he is saying exactly that, if you were to zoom in on his polo shirts, it bacheears the logo of crowe's super yacht. >> oh, my god. you could not make this up if you were it critic of the court and how they do not live by the laws that the rest of us do.

you could not manufacture this this is an amazing piece of reporting. i'll ask you to stick around through the break. and we'll stay on this, we'll push a little deeper and we'll talk about what it means for the rest the justices and the chief justice john roberts who says a whole lot of things about feeling bad and sad about looming questions over the court's legitimacy

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that is entirely appropriate. feel free to criticize our opinions and how we do our work. but lately, the criticism is phrased in terms of because of these opinions, it calls in to question the legitimacy of the court. and i think that it is a mistake to view those criticisms in that light. legitimacy of the court rests on the fact that it satisfies the requirements of the statute and the constitution needs somebody to say what the law is and that is the role of the supreme court and that doesn't change simply because people disagree with this opinion or that opinion >> and they famously took up bush v. gore, 75% of americans

had a great deal of trust in the court but it has plunged 30 points only 47% of all americans have a, quote, xwrait grgreat deal or amount of trust in the court eric, what is the reaction to your story it seems like it is more than nothing which is extraordinary for the united states supreme court. >> i think the reaction has been quite significant. and i think because on a common sense perspective, when you -- somebody is flying you around the world and taking you around on their super fancy boats, you are indebted to them that just makes sense. unless you have your own fancy boats, it is hard to reciprocate. and i think that really troubles

people who are looking at the court as these judges should be above reproach it doesn't appear to be the case here >> and i had a question. i like nicolle just found the reporting amazing. and really dispassionate in the way it was presented and i was wondering, it is so hard to look at the facts you layout and square that with it all beinrsonal hospitality and in a statement that was issued by clarence thomas, he says that he did think that it was personal hospitality and he relied on some unnamed judges and perhaps others and i was wondering what you thought would happen now is there any chance of getting -- having a hearing, having some answers to all of these questions and whether congress or anyone else is going to do anything because this really undermines the court for everyone, whether you are liberal or conservative. it cast as shadow on everyone's integrity there.

>> yeah, so we are journalists who try to focus on the questions of what has happened and not what will happen, but what i can say is that obviously, you know, senators and others have been troubled and as to your question, i will simply point out that we have askedjustice thomas exactly those questions. who did you get the guidance from, when perchance was it written down and would you share it if that was so because again, and i just want to be clear here, the law more than a half dozen experts have told us is quite clear here. and that justice thomas does not appear to have followed. >> and harry, let me show one more sort of piece of this story. this is a photo realistic painting there one of justice thomas' visit ss to camp topprae

this is crowe's private resort i guess if you are rich you name your houses. and if you are in your car, i'll tell you what i put up crowe is on the far right and justice thomas second from right smoking cigaty cigaring at the resort.ity cigaring at the resort.ty cigaring at the resort.y cigaring at the resort. cigaring acigaring at tt and he is chatting with other c conservative power brokers tell everyone why it matters >> and a paint something. >> photo realistic painting. >> the main person there is leonard leo.something. >> photo realistic painting. >> the main person there is leonard leo.omething. >> photo realistic painting. >> the main person there is leonard leo.mething. >> photo realistic painting. >> the main person there is leonard leo.ething. >> photo realistic painting. >> the main person there is leonard leo.thing. >> photo realistic painting. >> the main person there is leonard leo.hing. >> photo realistic painting. >> the main person there is leonard leo.ing. >> photo realistic painting. >> the main person there is

leonard leo. that is the person who really advised donald trump on the three appointees some of these trips cost half a million dollars. that is twice clarence thomas' salary this is rank and the core problem you can and i do think bef-- sheldon whitehs will be all over it. but the core problem is the last person who should be sbrerting what personal hospitality means is the recipient and law means somebody else who is thon pnonpartisan decides it and so i'm sure at the end of the day it will be them who acquiesce to it. but if all seven justices say we got to do this, and if they do -- >> having been a republican, if

kagan were island 4hopping, it would be wall to wall coverage >> and she discloses them. >> and what is -- the notion that clarence and sxginni thomas have taken two gifts since -- this is 19 years ago how did it get so fundamentally broken that not only the whole branch but just the supreme court is anktding as though it is above the law >> i actually think that this kind of thing predates where we are now. the court has otherwise become broken and we've focused our attention on these sorts of things but as you heard, in 2004 the l.a. times reported something about justice thomas, he stops talking. and it is even news that they have given an inch i think that has been their policy for many years. >> eric, where does the story go

next, what do you -- do you think that there will be movement -- should we keep our eyes on the hill offer just tell me based on the locations of the reporting where do you think we're head something. >> well, you know, the supreme court i think for many years because of the trust people had in it, it was not really a focus of scrutiny and questions of accountability people assumed that the judges, you know, they were in very nice reaob robes, that they conduct themselves in a certain manner and i think what you're sieeing with our story and previous coverage as well that that is not always the case. and that scrutiny is now coming to bear on the court as it should simply as any institution that is as powerful as the supreme court should face so we will see

i will say that i believe that there is more stories to come from us and others >> and i think what i'll take from that is that i should start anchoring in a robe. >> and go on vacation. >> you can't make it up. to your colleague, congratulations to your reporting. we'll be right back. for copd, ask your doctor about breztri.

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the happiest thing that happens for me is when this table is full. and it is right now. the reverend back with us to talk about the 37-day week that was. you first. >> just so much between donald trump being arrested by a black man that he maligned >> one week ago. >> which the republican establishment in new york and now the country has been maligning. it's that black guy that brought his butt back to new york from florida. everything that's happened since, particularly when we think about what's happening in tennessee. i have to say this quickly the irony they raise around what's happening in this country is phenomenal. i team in the former home of eleanor roosevelt. there's a soon on the wall that

said, active shooter protocols it says -- it's broken into three opportunities to act avoid, barricade or actually at the end day in the worst case scenario, confront that's the reality we live in. that's what justin jones and justin pearson were fighting against. i hope it alarms and motivated all of us. >> you don't need a fancy political operative to explain to any voter of any race of any gender that republicans are for banning things guns can't protect you from, drag shows, books. they are for more books even when that includes the ability to shoot up elementary schools. >> it never looked more like 1965 since then to me. dogs tearing at people's pants i don't understand how the tennessee legislature missed this as you say, it's indelible and

breath taking. not just the protests themselves but the whole point. it's a super majority. they have no need do it other than politics of grievance and reprisal and nastiness that, to me -- a lot of inroads on trump nearly in the week. but that was an indelible image last night. >> it's an important benchmark in -- trump has infected the way former republican party -- the trump party functions. they are anti-democratic as a reflex >> i wanted to take you inside the fbi. if you are thinking that law enforcement doesn't understand the problem of guns, once a week at the fbi, somebody would give us the statistics of how many guns were sold those are just known sales there's a series of guns that are ghost guns everyone kept on being appalled week after week. they knew darn well what was

happening with those guns. you know, it was always year after year, the highest day for gun sales? valentine's day. law enforcement gets it. this is not a thing where it's pro law enforcement should be having sensible restrictions nobody needs to have an ak-47. there are all sorts of restrictions that make a lot of sense. the republican party is still captured by that group that thinks if you do anything, you are going to take all guns away. >> you cannot adopt a dog from a shelter without a home visit and a background check but you can get a gun when you are 18 people understand this do you think it's a tipping point? >> i think it can be if we follow it up the question is what we do from here i look at this week. tuesday was april 4th, the 55th anniversary of the assassination of martin luther king.

i irony is that on that day was the day donald trump was arrested and arraigned i thought about the central park five who was arraigned in that same criminal court building i thought about how i was one of those outside marching for them. to watch donald trump go in that building on the 55th anniversary, being prosecuted by a black district, who dr. king who had a lot to do with that climate to elect a black district, but in the same state martin luther king was shot down in, these two young guys and a white woman would stand up against gun violence, martin luther king was killed in tennessee. the bad news is that they are fighting them. the good news is that there are young warriors that are continuing to dream. >> you gave me chills. a treat to have all of you here clumping litter. salmon paté?

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. thank you so much for letting us into your homes for another week of shows during these truly extraordinary times. we are grateful. jason, happy friday. >> thank you so much i appreciate it. this is jason johnson. welcome to "the beat." we start tonight in nashville, tennessee. suddenly, a national flashpoint. kamala harris making a surprise visit to the city. she will attend a service for the group known as the tennessee three where she will speak soon. expected to meet in private with the trio of state democrats who face an expulsion vote from republicans