>> today on velshi, federa judge in texas orders abortion pills on pharmacy shelves in all 50 states. only a seven-day window for an appeal the very latest on the pressures of donald trump as his former vice presiden prepares to testify abou january 6th. and, how the trumpian tactic o attacking and silencin political opponents is being mainstream by republican across the country including famously this week i tennessee. then, another sign that th american people are rejectin republican politics. i'll talk about the remarkable -- with the man who famousl crumpled the conquest of the state in the 2019. velshi starts right now.

good morning to you on saturda april the 8th, i'm velshi. it is been a short week in american politics. former president donald trum appeared for arraignment i manhattan, criminal cour political tensions are on th front. his extremist ideology wil carry on whether or not he succeeds in getting back to th white house. on tuesday, we saw trump i unfamiliar territory inside courtroom waiting for the judg to give him the criminal charges division filed against him. former president already twice impeached and still currentl facing eleni of other criminal and civil complaints, he pleaded not guilty to the 34 felony accounts of falsifyin business records in relation t the hush money payments made t stormy daniels with whom h allegedly had an affair. trump continues to lie those allegations. he's also reported to making dozens of social media pos criticizing the manhatta district attorney, alvin brang the judge assigned to his case and even their family member who have nothing to do wit this prosecution

nbc news has learned that make -- their colleagues and familie have recently received threats as news broke of the indictment trump's efforts to silence and intimidate people and entities he considers to be his enemies is consistent with who he is and always has been. his attempts to undermine th integrity of the institution that are supposed to uphold th values of justice and democrac are straight out of a strong wind playbook. while trump's ongoing lega troubles jeopardize his thir run for the white house, the fact of the matter is trump is still the de facto head of the republican party and trump-ism itself is thriving in the same week of th historic arraignment, a rare and extraordinary move b tennessee republicans showed how those tactics have bee adopted by the gop at large. the super majority o republicans that control the tennessee state house move thi week to take the most extrem measures possible to punish th tennessee three, a trio of democratic state lawmakers who

made headlines for protestin on the floor of the tennesse house against gun violence on march 30th, three days afte a school shooting in nashville left six people dead including three children, the democratic state representatives, glori johnson, justin jones, and justin pearson took to the podium on the house floor to the chance for gun reform. as the republican colleagues tried to move on to othe business following, that they wer relieved of their committe assignments, their access to the capital, their play so for worth even revoked tennessee how speaker, cameron sexton, tried to compare the tennessee threes active protes to quote an insurrection but he walked that back afte receiving backlash for those comments these past thursday, republica state representatives in tennessee decided to proceed with the extraordinary mov expelling two of the tennessee three, two young black freshma lawmakers, justin jones an justin pearson, as punishmen for violating the house rule of decorum

gloria johnson, a whit lawmaker, narrowly avoided her expulsion by one vote. it's possible that jones and pierson could return to th house, the majority of the nashville metropolitan council which is responsible for finding an interim replacement for justin jones is now th conceit, voting on a record to say that their choice would be to reinstate jones himself but since the civil war era, the tennessee state legislatur has only moved to expel member of the body three times and never for something as trivial as a violation o decorum. punishment does not fit th so-called crime. it's an extreme an disproportionate penalty levie against two democrat democratically elected politicians. that's the bottom line jones and pearson were dul elected by their constituents. their expulsion is only th latest example of how th politics of revenge an retribution that donald trum has normalized is chipping awa at our democracy their expulsion, at the very

least, appears like an act o political retribution in order to silence the oppositio rather than a sincere effort t enforce the rules of the house it's a trumpian move consistent with the way that former president has denigrate and mistreated his critics throughout his entire politica career the result is that 130,000 tennesseeans are currently without representation in that state's house of representatives. joining me now is the former united states senator, dou jones, of alabama. he was the first democrat to win the u.s. senate seat in hi state in 25 years. he's a former u.s. attorney fo alabama, a senior distinguishe fellow in the center forward american progress and author o the book, bending toward justice, the birmingham church bombing that change the course of civil rights. senator, don't get to see, you thank you for being with u this morning >> thank you, good to be wit you again. >> i want to talk to you about the politics in some of thes states including alabama. like tennessee, alabama stat legislators dominated by

republicans. they've got a supermajority, they've got total control of the state government talk to me about that dynamic. if you are justin jones an justin pearson, you are young, your younger generation -- you are built on protest, yo are -- everybody who knew them knew that they were coming in to be disruptive forces and politics now they got kicked out of the legislature for it >> yes, you know, ali, i don't think that came in to be a disruptive for think that came in to be a voice for people who didn' have a voice they had a very shallow voic over the years i think that's one reason that helped me get elected in 2017, people were looking for a voic that they haven't had in a lon time the challenge that we have i the south is that for so lon -- i think democrats just abandon down here and we were left t fend for ourselves and we were just trying to defend things cultural wars that are not always easy to defend. and we lost sight of the fac that the people of the south

are basically good folks tha really want the best for their families we lost that side of the fac the democrats provided healt care, democrats provided socia security and medicare an medicaid we lost sight of some of tha and we decided to just engag in all of the culture wars and we lost out on that in s in 2010, most of the legislatures in the sout became super majorities and no there is very little voice you've got to have a voice o reason you've got to have someone who will listen because democrat still get roughly 40% of the vote throughout the south, but yet our representation is wa below that mostly below a third, 30% or thereabouts. >> let's talk about this on thursday, ahead of th expulsion of the tennessee three, you posted a video on twitter, you spoke about wha you called, quote, unchecked majorities let's talk about these instances of overreach b republicans in your state, similar to what happened i tennessee this weekend similar to the example that you cite

about mississippi. >> yeah, you, know what yo have to do is go back and look at the horrific immigration la that alabama passed years ago. look at the assault on women's reproductive rights. look at what they're doing t the transgender community in alabama and elsewhere. those are folks that will go behind closed doors, disco's what they want to do come ou and vote on it and stifle an dissent. there is really nothing that you can do there is nothing that folks ca do except stand up, speak out, as gloria johnson said i tennessee, called -- occasionally break a decorum rule, as you noted and try to get that messag across to people so that we ca start to rebuild down here i think we have opportunitie now. look what's happening in mississippi, with th corruption it's going on ove there. the water crisis, medicaid crisis, and now in tennessee

>> republicans are handing democrats an opportunity to go back to people and talked them and, more importantly, ali listen to them about what they really want in their state and in america >> the good thing abou protests is there's a real spectrum you can get arrested if yo choose, you can break decoru in the house, you can do other things and you mention this, yo tweeted this week, what' happening in tennessee today and truly frightening. where are tennessee's business leaders? where the gop leaders an voters who believe in the righ to dissent and our democracy where are the veterans groups, who put their lives on the lin to help protect democratic ideals you have the power to stop thi madness. stuck up before it's too late. talk to me about that, because these were actually protests about gun violence that's what started it right after a mass shooting in which three little childre died in tennessee. this wasn't some weird out o character outside of the mainstream issue this was the most importan

issue as there is in tennessee and probably across americ right now. >> that's absolutely right it's similar to other protests that we've seen across the country after these mass shootings, whether they're i florida, parkland, member, ali i gave a speech about gu violence before the united states senate panicking people to - let's do something, let's, g you can protect the second amendment, you can protect the rights of law-abiding gu owners, but yet try to stem th tide of this violence that w see here that's what these kids, that's what those parents were doing, i saw a video of a school mo embracing one of the legislatures who was ousted. it was an amazing moment i that nashville state capital when that happened and you, know our country wa built on this. built on dissent and he just completely stifled these people are not breakin

windows, by the way. they weren't breaking through, windows they weren't going through the capitol screaming, where is the speaker of th house, let's hang him! they weren't beating peopl with american flags, they were simply saying we want somethin done through your dam job >> there is no attempted insurrection or overthrow th tennessee government, they jus wanted attention on this important topic. good to see you, thanks fo joining. a former democratic senator, doug jones of alabama. still ahead on - ruling last night calling for key abortion drug to be pulled from pharmacy shelve nationwide donald trump has been party to literally thousands of lawsuit over the decades, and fo decades pulitzer prize-winning journalist, david cay johnston has been writing about them he'll join me later in th show to talk about the past, the present and the future o donald trump's legal entanglement then, next hour i'm joined b the one ali reverend a sharpton talk about what's nex for tennessee, the tennis p3 and how their story co change the national narrative.

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during a holy weekend whic believers are celebratin easter, passover and ramadan the latest wave began on wednesday when israeli force stormed the al aqsa mosque i jerusalem two times just hours apart. the mosque is considered a revered holy site in islamic since then israel incurred a major missile attack in whic 34 rockets were filed from lebanon, at the northern region despite the attack coming from lebanon the israeli military blames hamas -- belonging to hamas in southern columbus on and the gaza strip joining me now is th correspondent who is in to cupid west bank. what is the situation? things have been very hot fo the past few days. >> they have been very, ho

alley, tense and violent i would say we have gone from situation where we've been looking at a potential macro conflict, a couple of hours an days ago i would've said the main concern was some kind o exhalation between israel an hezbollah, the powerfu embassies pilot to every group that controls southern lebanon instead israelis are focused now on what has been just string of attacks over the las 24 hours here in the occupie west bank. israeli forces are fanning out they are conducting a major ma hunt, searching for a suspecte palestinian gunmen who kille two british israeli sister yesterday in a shooting attack their mother also ended in that attack she is in critica condition in hospital. she's fighting for her life. this is a family that lived in the settlement in the south of the occupied west bank the family that is in mourning now and prime minister benjami netanyahu and his far-righ allies are feeling major domestic political pressur

right now. they were elected, ali, on a promise to get tough o security issues and instea there has just been this strin of attacks including last night, where according to israeli police a palestinian drive rammed his car into taurus, as they were walking on the promenade on the beach in te aviv one person was killed, fiv injured there. the italian government is toda confirming that the man wh lost his life was an italian tourist. he was on vacation here in israel and ali, is all i coming as you said after israeli forces stormed into th al-aqsa mosque interest slim o wednesday. these were images of israeli police in full riot gear beating palestinians with nigh sticks with the bouts of their guns israeli police said they wen into the mosque becaus extremists had barricade themselves inside. they were stockpiling rocks, fireworks, improvised weapons, but when you speak t

palestinians in jerusalem they say they were inside the mosqu as part of a ramadhane tradition of sleeping overnigh inside that sacred place, as you, said considered the third holiest site in is mom so very tense days right now in what should be a sacred wee as people mark easter, passove and ramadan. >> i believe that you were there when some of that wa going on and there were number of arrests made b israeli police and most of those people have been released? >> yes, that is right. so something like 400 arrest on the day on wednesday in the early hours when israeli pleas first went into the mosque most of those people have no been released, but a numbe being held on various differen charges. it's largely yellen young, people young men who wer inside the mosque at the time. and if you ask these palestinians they say part o the reason that they had rocks fireworks inside the mosque is they were concerned abou

israeli extremists potentially desecrating the mosque i'll, it sounds crazy, it' something out of the old testament, their fear was that israeli extremist might try to sacrifice an animal to mark th first day of passover. but a french israeli group sai it's prepared to pay israeli if they were able to do that o that sacred ground >> thanks very, much rafsanjan as in the occupied west bank still ahead, a federal judge calls for a key abortion medication to be pulled from shelves. what this means for abtioron access nationwide and how th biden administration i fighting back that's. back that's. next (seth) and when i switched, i got to choose the phone i wanted. for free. not bragging. (cecily) you're bragging. (neighbor) oh, he's bragging. (seth) who, me? never. oh, excuse me. hello, your royal highness, sir... (cecily) okay, that's a brag. (seth) hey, mom. i gotta call you back. (vo) switch and choose the 5g phone you really want, on us. like the incredible iphone 14. (cecily) on the network worth bragging about.

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mara, are you sure you don't want -to go bowling with us tonight? -yeah. no. there's my little marzipan! [ laughs ] oh, my daughter gives the best hugs! we're just passing through on our way to the jazz jamboree. [ imitates trumpet playing ] and we wanted to thank america's number-one motorcycle insurer -for saving us money. -thank you. [ laughs ] mara, your parents are -- exactly like me? i know, right? well, cherish your friends and loved ones. let's roll, daddio! let's boogie-woogie! this morning we are following the legal battle over a crucia abortion drug after ruling las night from a federal drugged i texas that could present the biggest rollback of abortion rights nationwide since th fall of roe v. wade nearly a year ago two federal judges in distan quarters of the country issued opposing rulings within an hou

of each other on the fate of abortion drug that - legal standoff that is heade to the supreme court since the supreme cour overturned roe v. wade in june women have been turning to abortion pills to end thei pregnancies. it's known as medication abortion and it consis generally a two-step regimen o mid press down and my four pro style that now accounts fo half of all abortions in the united states. as the abortion activist see the drug as it - to ban abortion nationwide and they've been targeting the pills in the courts and stat legislators. the first federal ruling o friday came down in amarillo texas where u.s. district judge, a trump appointee with a history of anti-abortion abuse issued sweeping decision t suspend the fda's 23 year ol approval of the pill and unprecedented, ruling if i stands than it will rollback abortion access in states, including the states where

abortion is legal. itev days to a pile - and the justice department filed a notice of appeal lat last night less than an hour afte the texas ruling another federal judge in washingto state, judge thomas oh ric directly contradicted the texa ruling ordering the fda to kee the drug on the market at leas in the 17 democratic led state that sued to keep the drug accessible plus the district o columbia it is likely to escalate to th supreme court, the same cour responsible for eliminating th right to an abortion in 2022 the texas case was brought by case - a christian organization tha claims that the fda rushed t approve the abortion drug in 2000, and ignore the safet risks associated with it in fact, mifepristone is one o the most studied and scrutinized drugs on the market decades of medical researc

shows that it is safer tha tylenol and as the new yor times points, out the fda ha in place an additional layer monitoring the drug that's bee used for only about 300 othe drugs. notably, the 67-page opinion use anti choice rhetoric including terms like unbor child and abortionist when talking about reproductive health care the american medica association slammed th decision just hours after th ruling saying the court' disregard for well-established scientific facts in favor of speculative allegations an ideological assertions wil cause harm to our patients and undermines the health of the nation by rejecting medical, facts th court has entered into the exa room and has intervened in decisions that belong to patients and physicians, and quote. last night president biden vowed to fight the ruling, adding, quote, the only way to stop those who are committed t take away women's rights and freedoms is to collect congres that will pass a law that will

reinforce store roe v. wade. the texas ruling seems to be the first time that the cour has ordered a drug to be removed over the objections of the fda which legal experts sa could have reproductions for - other types of drugs such as hormone replacement ther before trans people. leaving advocates worry that conservative judges across america will become agents i the broader efforts on behal of the right-wing morality with, rulings many of you ma be asking, what comes next joining me now is the senior correspondent at new yor magazine and coauthor of the notorious rpg, the life an times of ruth bitter ginsburg. good to see you. thanks for joining us on this. it is complicated on a lot of, levels billet start with something basic. there's a thing called venue shopping, when people want t achieve something in a court they try to find a jurisdictio that will be most favorable fo them it seems that the plaintiffs i this thing that ended up wit the texas judge were the

epitome of that. >> right, so first you have th trump administration laying th groundwork here by finding young ideological gymnasts this is a judge with a track record as a foot soldier for the christian right. and he is set up to be the onl judge who can hear cases i amarillo texas this is a group that the deliberately station themselves in that jurisdiction, knowing that when they filed this lawsuit, and you mentione it but i think it's simply cannot be underscored enough how absurd it is to bring this lawsuit 23 years after it' been on the, shelves it's been used by thousands of people, millions of people, with a ver good safety profile as drugs go and they knew that what woul have been left out of almost every other court, it stood chance because - it was a done deal when they filed in amarillo, they knew that they would catch this

judge who was elevated by this movement that has had it in hi crosshairs the potential liberation and access presente by abortion pills. especially if people figure ou how to make them even more available because, as much a these have been approved and available from the biden administration has looked to make them more available i think we also have to se this in the context of the trying to close every door tha the biden administration may want to open in terms of acces safely to this bill. >> but overtime, and including in particular after the fall of, wrote this has become a more available accessible and popular option for women seeking abortion and now accounts for more than half of all abortions in the united states. so if chasm eric's ruling were to hold, that actually affects the way many women in states that have no abortio restrictions would get acces to an abortion >> right, and here in new york abortion is legal, but tha doesn't mean that people may

not -- people might choose to have an abortion at home they may want the privacy, eve here in new york, if you go to an abortion clinic you are met with protesters outside, you might feel the loss of privacy there are often protesters yelling things that people their filming, who knows wha author doing people just may want the choic to end their pregnancies thi way by inducing a miscarriage, rather than what's known as procedural abortion whic happens inside the clinic. these are pills that can als be done through telemedicine if you don't narrow live - it don't live near a clinic yo might use this so that you don't have to drive for hour and get childcare. these are pills where in state that where abortion is - until the medicine hasn't been banned folks can get pills t the mail in states where it' illegal. there's an underground network and folks that are in band dates, whether it's the pill

or they're driving their to th next state what they understand is that these pills provide people wit options and with privacy and that is a form of liberation that threatens to undercut all of the restrictions that the have put into place. and that is why we are - because they are powerful. >> good to see, you erin thank you for joining. us senior correspondent at new york magazine, the coauthor of notorious, rbg the life an times of earth day gaite ginsburg >> - center for reproductive rights one of the most fomorest organizations in the fight for abortion rights. stay with us stay with us parodontax toothpaste... ...is 3x more effective at removing plaque bacteria, one of the main causes of bleeding gums. parodontax. the gum experts.

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night's ruling from a federa judge in texas revoking th fda's 23 year old probable of key abortion drug in orderin its removal from pharmac shelves. i'm joined by nancy north, the president ceo of the center fo reproductive rights. thank you for being with that's one of the interestin things about this judg decision is that he's put on hold for seven days as of last night to give chances for folk to appeal it the appeal is gonna be heard b the fifth circuit court, i your venue shopping, this is sort of the best outcome for antiabortion forces. going to chasm eric in getting an appeal to the fifth circuit tell me what you think might happen because that is gonna have to happen within the next

seven days we've already heard that the justice department will appear this >> yes, and let's jus start with the fact that the opinion, it has zero basis i law in fact. so if you read it as a attorney, page after page th judge is just repeating th baseless allegations of th plaintiffs in this manufacture lawsuit. as you talked about, it th manufacture to get before this judge and also in conservative circuit to the department of justice has made clear they are goin to appeal this they do appear to be going first to the u.s. court of appeals with this circuit. and, look if that court does would it a court should do i is going to swiftly revers this decision. this decision of approving mifepristone for the marke over 22 years ago was based on science and facts and studie and to have one single judge upend our drug approval proces

since the ruling by the fda to approve it in 2000, we have ha now 22 years of even mor safety with health experience. 5 million women in the unite states, not to mention the millions around the worl safely using it. >> it was invented in, franc and i think it was cleared for use there since 1980 and i guess on one hand i' thinking the fda can probabl use 22 years worth of evidence to resubmit. but on the other, and why ar we doing this? the judge suggested that the fda went about at the wron way. he also made initiating clai about the folks involved i this case because he says that the antiabortion doctors brought the suit forward are more suited to file the suit i the first place on behalf of pregnant when it because on hi words adverse abortion experiences are deeply traumatizing and pose hindrance to a woman's ability to file a suit and they bring this up because

it's probably useful for america to understand who this judges and how this judg thinks >> right, and i mean the place in this case which are antiabortion doctors and organizations have no standing in which court means that yo have some interest that is really at stake beyond a general opinion abou something. and so here, this should'v been thrown out to begin wit on standing. not to mention the fact that the underlying claim is wrong. and the law in the fact of the evidence supports the approval of the drug on the market. this, judge you know, ever single objection to this cas that the department of brought were all not counted, th plaintiffs don't have standing the claims they have are barre by time and statute of limitation, 22 years later every single one of these judg just agrees with the plaintiff and, again we've talked about, it they form shopped, they created the organization tha is after dobbs in amarillo -

for the very purpose of gettin this judge, with a new would rule with them so it's really just shocking that this single judge i upending and threatening acces to medication abortion as yo said, in every state in th country. >> as you look at similar case across the country when it comes to abortion, judge typically use the term fetus this judge doesn't this judge uses the term unbor human and unborn child i almost wonder whether he i setting himself up for a appeal twist on the fact tha this doesn't seem to be th most sensible of rulings just the way judges ar supposed to rule this judge does seem to be going farther than the plaintiffs claim eve represented. >> i, mean the judge throughout the opinion, he use the rhetoric of th anti-abortion rights movemen and so, again, it makes clea what his own personal opinions are on this. and what's really important to

remember is that the america public strongly supports the right to abortion. we have seen it again and agai when they get to decide. so of course we saw it in th midterm elections, with the bi victory in michigan and also with california and vermont, all of those states protecting abortion rights and we saw i kansas last summer saying hike no don't take our rights away, kentucky is the same thing we just saw last week in wisconsin when the voters by a strong majority said we do wan to have a justice on a high-risk court who is going t protect the fundamental righ to abortion to make decision about ourhealth, lives and future this one judge in this entir coordinated campaign to get nationwide abortion ban is completely at odds with th views that the american public hold >> thank you for being, with u as always, nancy, the presiden and ceo for the center o reproductive rights. no amount of money or powe should prevent someone fro being accountable.

it's no secret that money an power have allowed people to subvert accountability throughout history up next we take a tour through the life and times and legal entanglements of donald trump. you're watching we msnbc you're watching we msnbc >> between stains and odors, it can handle double trouble. for the #1 stain fighter and odor remover, it's got to be tide.

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>> we've got more velshi on th way, including a deep dive int the history of the legal entanglements of the trump family and businesses. plus, the continued backlash over the tennessee state legislature's decision to expe two block members from its ranks. simone sanders-townsend sa down with those two former lawmakers, justin jones an justin pearson and the third legislatur gloria johnson, all thre protesting against gun violenc but only jones in pierson wh are black were expelled for legislature for. it representative johnson came close to expulsion herself, bu a vote narrowly failed by on vote she opened up to simone abou why she and particular was abl

to keep her job and whethe racism at play in the tennesse cabinet. >> representative johnson, b one vote you are still a sitting member of the tennesse state legislature, why do yo believe you were not expelled >> because of the color of my skin >> so would you say that the members, the republican member of the tennessee state legislature are racist >> well, i would say that i wa sitting in criminal justic committee discussing a bil where we were like to add th firing squad and the electri chair to the methods for capital punishment and one o the members said, i think we need to add hanging by a tree. >> he called for hanging >> this was just a few weeks ago >> it was just mind-boggling. >> calling for hanging from tree check out simone, today an every weekend, 4 pm on msnbc more well she after a quic break. connect your business,

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tierney, alvin bragg characterize the felony charge against donald trump was quote burdened butter of white color inferences >> at its core, thi case today is one with allegations like so many of ou white collar cases allegations that someone lie again and again to protect their interests and obey the laws to which we are all hel accountable.

as this office has done time and time again, we today uphol our solemn responsibility to ensure that everyone stand equal before the law no amount of money, no amoun of power changes that enduring american principle no amount of money and n amount of power should prevent someone from being hel accountable from being treated equally under the law. but it's no secret that mone and power have allowed peopl to divert accountability throughout history the term, white collar, crim dates back to about 1940 the sociologist an criminologist, edwar sutherland wanted differentiat between crime of the quote lower class as he called it an crime committed by quote respected businessmen an professional men that's why even th transgressions of the rich and powerful carry an era of privilege. that's why it seems that certain allegations seems to roll off the rich and powerful like, teflon dating back mor than 70, years when trump'

father businesses face allegations ranging from tax fraud civil rights abuses. so far every single one of the allegations have disappeared they were, dropped acquitted o had been quietly settled whether pardoning his allies a the 11th hour of his presidenc attempting to claim executiv privilege or more than $16 million worth of campaig donations, a donald trump ha spent on his own legal fees an legal fees of his allies , trump continues to attempt t wield money and power in his favor. but now there are at least seven civil and criminal probe into trump and his businesses. the manhattan da's indictmen of trump's over alleged hush money payments is just one o the investigations that puts trump in potential legal jeopardy joining me now is someone who' been covering donald trump for some 35. years david, he's a pulitzer prize investigative journalist and the cofounder of d.c report.org he knows the story, well he' the author of multiple books

about donald trump including the big cheat, how donald trum fleeced america and enriched himself and his family david, good to see you, with a moment of pause behind us sinc the indictment i do want to ask, you becaus you've covered all the times were at least many - not even sure, all because there's been too many. but so many of the times tha donald trump has had brushes with the law, whether it's about him or civil cases i which he's been the primar litigant does it feel different to? you >>, well it is the first time he has actually bee criminally indicted. he's been found by a federal judge to have given testimon that is not to be believed under oath he used liquor limousine's and hotel rooms to get 12:13 and 1 year old children to gambl until their money was gone i his casinos. we think about, that is that item for a minute. sixth graders gambling in th trump casino and being supplie with liquor. again, and again donald trum

has committed crimes but he di what roy - the notorious lawyer from th mccarthy area taught him, neve acknowledge any wrongdoing always accuse law enforcemen of being corrupt and dishonest and press on he's been very successful at i until. now i think that whole game is at an end. >> let's talk about, that yo say he's committed crimes. you've written about this. but in fact in our justice system, unless you are charged and convicted of committing a, crime donald trump will tell you he hasn't committed any. in fact, he still says h hasn't and as of this moment under the way our law works he has never been commit convicte of committing a crime. >> well he - let me back, up until you ar convicted your presumed to b innocent that is actually correct that doesn't mean that you didn't commit crimes it means law enforcement didn' charge you and, remember the vast majorit of crimes in this country ar

never punished in any way. in fact only a minority of murderers go to jail >> let's talk a little bit about the compounding nature o these investigations there are many there are three that are several to e. jean carroll, on relating to that new yor attorney general and that ha similarities to the trum organization case, in which th trump organization was actuall found guilty but it didn't tie directly to donald trump and then they're all the criminal cases is there something, when you look at this array of things that i've got on the screen. is there some sense that thi is harder for donald trump t escape i only ask you that becaus he's faced so many legal proceedings in his life that i don't know, is seven a lot for donald trump or is it just par for th course >> for actual criminal investigations it is a tremendous number. he particularly needs to b worried about those cases wher

his own public comments hi grievances speeches that he' giving at mar-a-lago - the one he gave after he was indicted, he acknowledge committing crimes. i mean, in the manhattan cray' he does not deny the facts h just says that's not a crime >> right >> in the stolen nationa security documents he says, had a right to take them so the issues that are gonna face donald are not, did you commit these facts it is, where they crimes did you have criminal intent >> one of the interesting part about this is that money doe by certain degrees o protection when donald trump feels th heat coming he replaces hi lawyers. he's got this new guy handling this particular, one i'm sure don't know what they cost per, hour about the lots and lots o money. that does work in his favor. >> yes, absolutely he gets all the defense that h can afford it was interesting that his ne lawyer, the hope gets paid

because donald has a lon history of sniffing his lawyer including rudy giuliani. he told the small group that was outside the courthouse tha no one but donald trump woul be charged with the crimes tha alvin bragg has brought. well, gee, i think there was a guy named michael cohen wh went to prison for the sam crimes >> you have made an interestin point, white collar crime, it' often thought about as a victimless, not the same a street crime which is violent. there are estimates out ther from business insiders, lowball estimates of white collar crimes. places damages at 300 billio dollars annually compared to the 16 billion dollars tha street crime costs you've actually suggested that law enforcement should redirec efforts away from non violen crime into white collar crime. why? >> well, the white collar crim in america causes vastly mor damage than street crime, we

devote enormous resources to having officers and patrol car ride around in - there's limited evidence, buhowt waste of taxpayers money because it has no effectiv result have officers walking throug business - one of the things of said on msnbc, i've taught my students at syracuse law where i teach, law although i'm not a lawyer, is that we need to rethink the complexity and the defenses of white collar crime because w have cases now that sometime cake months to present the facts and we should not have that we have very clear laws on street crime we need to have clear laws o sweet crime. >> good to see, you david. i've lost, count having writte nine books or is it more tha nine >> i put together an anthology -- >> that would count. >> it's a new tax system for

the united states in the moder economies. >> we will talk about that david. good to see you as always. pulitzer prize-winning investigative journalist, he's the cofounder of the seaport dot org. he's the author of 9 to 10 books, many of them about trump, the big cheat how donald trump -- was gone system -- and on access to abortion an it paid off. in a state that voted for trum in 2016, we're going t wisconsin later. plus, some good news to star your weekend a strong jobs report, i'll break down the 236,000 jobs at it and what those numbers mean for you. another hour of while sh begins right now >> analogy, starting with bombshell federal court ruling that could present the biggest rollback of abortion right since roe v. wade wa overturned and the