you put it on airplane mode when you pass our house. i was trying to work. we're workin' it too. yeah! work it girl! woo! i want to hear you say it out loud. well, i could switch us to xfinity. those smiles. that's why i do what i do. all the time i have for today that and the paycheck. want to see you back her tomorrow at six a.m. eastern for american voices. for now, i handed over to my colleague ayman. >> hey alicia, you know i wa watching that interview with a representative johnson, and was thinking to myself, it's such a seminal moment in our country when you have duly elected representatives bein silenced and being removed fro their positions for speaking u on behalf of their constituents it's a very bizarre moment i our country's history. >> absolutely. i love part of what she said about all of these issues,

she's been in our show but for we've talked about tennessee's extreme abortion ban today we're talking about gu safety, the shenanigans in democracy, they're all connected. they're not separate stories they all go back to this roo cause of a minority acting a though they are the majority they are allowed to do s because systems are in place t make it so >> i was gonna say, and th scary thing is you know that tennessee yes was the one that came to the surface this week, but i have no doubt that it' this opportunity presented itself at other stat legislators, republican contro literatures, it would certainl hope in there as well. great to see you as always m friend, great show, enjoy th rest of your evening off and good evening to you. welcome to ayman tonight the week donald trump look small. sitting in a courtroom, no bluster, no bravado, it's th moment that changed everything for trump. our experts are going to explain the charges, the political states, and what comes next then, a trump appointed judg

tries a medication abortion in america. but obama effectively blocks that ruling. where do things stand now, we're gonna speak with democratic congressman bump. -- new indications rupert murdoch might be on the witness stan in dominion's lawsuit agains fox goes to trial. i'm ayman, let's get started this week in the 24 hour following former president donald trump's arraignment threats against the presidin judge and his family began t pour in. manhattan district attorne alvin bragg and other to officials in his office have continued to receive threats o their own. in response, the new yor police detail a sign to th da's office, is not providin extra security to all effectiv staff members and cour officers are boosting security for george merchan as precaution in an extraordinary move

online bios of employees at th district attorney's office hav been removed from the da's website. a source familiar with the - nbc news that this is a direct response to troubling post o social media, including post from the ex presidents own social media platform. but it's not just online behavior that is raising concerns, hours after judg marchand asked the ex presiden to refrain from making any statements that could incite violence or civil unrest, what is trump do? he takes to the stage an florida to air his grievance in person. trump attacked not only th investigation, but also judg marchand and his family, a well as alvin bragg and hi wife in fact, experts say trump's rhetoric outside the courtroom could be teetering closer an closer to the level of a gag order. during tuesday's arraignment the only, i should say, he onl managed to muster nine words the man who's known for talkin

so much, all he said was yes thank you, i do, yes, yes, and not guilty the larger than life man use to sakina oxygen out of an room he is entered in the past seven years, was no longer i control. can you imagine that that guy, the president, the former president sitting for a hour and just saying nine words? the man who was once the kin of new york, was merely defendant. or as the new yorkers eric loc put it, the manhattan courtroo made donald trump look small quote, trump looked very muc like a man forced to be their, which is exactly what he was for a moment it was made possible to forget that he was running for president. and despite trump's decades of attention seeking behavior, th ex president doesn't seem to b relishing in his histori indictment and arraignment according to the new york times, people close to trump say that his bravado both online and on the campaign trail maybe a act. insiders said they believe the

ex president putting up controlled front to mask his anxiety, because it sure i hard to project you are strong and big lead when you've gon from president to criminal defendant. joining me now to discuss this and more renato mariotti former federal prosecutor an little affair legal affair columnist -- and an msnbc contributor, an barbara leee jennifer horn a - republican party it's great to have you with us we're not oh, i'll start wit you and taking a look at the case here. we've got our first look at th actual case and the indictment specifically against trump he is not charged with 3 counts of falsifying busines records with the intent to commit or conceal another crime, making all those counts felony you zeroed in on a noose piece for politico on these crimes writing quote, this is what bragg's indictment has done

disservice to the public and trump himself. walk me through that, explai what you mean by that. >> what the indictment does is specify -- what those crimes are. i will tell you in this an with individuals familiar with the investigation they haven't completely dialed down wha those other crimes are to me we as the american peopl deserve to know what those other crimes are that needed due command. i want to know what thos crimes are i want to know exactly wha those election crimes are. and i think the da ultimatel is gonna have to show that, if a judge granted a motion that expect trump's team to file in the upcoming weeks i wish they have done that u front. that is really my concern here the underlying, th falsification of busines records charges is ver straightforward to prove so i really think it's important for all of us to get that out there >> suzanne, after trump'

arraignment, they bragg held a press conference he defended his decision t bring these unprecedente charges. take a listen to what he said. >> we have a distinct an strong, i would say, profoun independent interest in ne york state this is the business capital o the world. we regularly do cases involvin false business statements. but the better, the bedrock, i fact, the bases for business integrity and they wil functioning business marketplace is true an accurate we have to keep it that's the charge of fraud here, falsified new york state business records >> what do you make of how alvin bragg characterize the significance of this case, tying it to not only the broader rule of law, but the general interest of new york state being as he described th financial center, financia capital of the world >> well, i think is right abou the business, you know, records, and keeping accurate busines records. but what he's doing is so much more than that, around thi

right about talking about, w don't quite know how all thi is gonna tie together. but he's not just doing that he's laid out, you know, keeping business records, an violating that is misdemeanor. and he's trying to bump it u to a felony. and we're getting kind of th contours of how that's going t work for example, one of the ways he's gonna do it that i'm very interested in, he's gonna ti it to, did they haut do it for tax purposes what are they with keeping false business records, an they're where the business gonna try to bump it up to a felony by tying it to, they ha a conspiracy to falsifie trying to business records the other one is, you walk know, where they trying to influence the outcome of the campaign, did they violate election la and doing that, either state o federal? they've been very vague on it. i really do want more detail but i think they're vagu because they do want to show the yoke in the uniqueness o this case itself i think we're gonna find out i due course, but it's not jus

the falsification, it's just a misdemeanor. i mean, we are really going to see how they're gonna tie it t these larger charges, you know to other things, to bump it up to the following and that's what we're al waiting to see exactly how tha falls into place >> jennifer, i'm not sure if you or our viewers saw right after that, they kind of concluded in court, trump' team took to the mics outsid of the courthouse saying the judge did not tell him not t go after the family of alvin bragg, or not to make thos comments and yet, despite that warnin from judge merchan, trump, wha does he do he flies down to mar-a-lago. he continues to attack officials during his speech. he called the da a criminal. and judge merchan himself, a trump hating judge, with a trump hating wife and family do you expect this kind of rhetoric, this kind of behavio from the ex president to continue >> absolutely. this is donald trump's mo.

this is how he keeps his supporters, you know, active and engaged. that's part of the bravado, th persona, you know? those few moments that we sa donald trump in the courtroom, that's the real donald trump that always has been he is a small man. you know, when there is no red hatch, no maga crowd, he's gonna hold the door for himself. you know, that's donald trum and we life. he's gotta keep that crowd going for him. he's going to continue to make these claims and these accusations against that judge and others and frankly, you know, you talked about the type, the second here, the threats tha have come in against the judge and his family, and others who are involved in this, that i very intentional from donald trump. he's never gonna make thos threats himself, but he know that his supporters well he knows that. and this is part of what is so

dangerous about donald trump you don't need millions of his supporters to step up and do something, or even thousands o them you just need one for this t become really tragic and donald trump knows that. >> and let's hope it does no get to that point. renato, let me ask you about the idea of a gag order, how does trump's position as a presidential contender, with all of the rights that he is entitled to in that situation, complicate matters, if it does get to the point where the judge said to this guy, look you are endangering the live of the civil servants? >> i think it does complicat things, ayman. the orders are alway disfavored because crimina defendants have first amendmen rights here, we have somebody who's a candidate for president, and i think the judge very wisel didn't take the bait i think this is a deliberate strategy by trump. he wants to try to bait th judge into seeming like he's

biased, or he's reacting t trump in some way, so that h has some appeal that he coul potentially bring in the future or make a motion to try to get the judge to refuse, saying th judges more worried about hi own personal safety and can' be fair. i think the judge's lies not t think, not to take the bait, t be above it all, and t ultimately just focus on the legal proceedings before him >> all right, panel, lisa stic around i've got a lot more to discuss and before we go to break, i d want to highlight an outrageou misstep by republicans i tennessee. they voted to expel two blac democrat state representative, justin jones and justin pearson, for protesting gun violence on the house floor, believe it or not. they voted to expel fellow democratic state representativ gloria johnson, a whit lawmaker who protested wit them as you see there failed, this obvious doubl standard is made worse when yo consider who jones and pearson were elected to represent, the many black and democrati

leading constituents o nashville and memphis. next hour, i'm gonna get int just how quickly and catastrophically this move b the gop backfired. but for now, let's actuall hear from justin jones of th tennessee three, who spoke wit my colleague simone sander earlier today. >> it's so interesting to me they said, you are destructive in the world that day. >> who is that they? >> this is what the charge were the resolution, and the realit is, when we first walked int those doors, that was disruption the movements, the communities that people -- the people we represent, that embodiment that was a distraction to body that is so defined by white supremacy, patriarchy, and plantation capitalism. that was the disruption. >> and coming up, how to peopl from donald trump's past could be cast as star witnesses in s hicriminal trial don't go anywhere. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ or the energy to keep working? 's massaging gel insoles

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we actually see the lega process unfold in the manhatta case against donald trump. trump's next in-person court date is now scheduled for th beginning of december. meanwhile, prosecutors hav just over two months to ge their evidence to trump' defense team, but with all the motions that defense plans t file, experts say it may b well over a year before th case actually gets to trial. that means a crimina indictment against the likel republican presidential fron runner could spill into th 2024 primaries now, that's what we think we can expect, but there are stil two big players formerly fro trump's orbit to watch out for an all this. this week, stormy daniels, the adult films are at the cente of the probe said that she would absolutely testify against the former president and prosecutors have signale they intend to use forme national enquirer publishe david pecker to backup evidenc from michael cohen - my panel is back with you. renato, let's start with you trump trump's defense team

they've said that one of their goals in filing all thes motions in the coming months i to get the case dismissed an prevented from even reaching a jury could they make a strong enoug case to see that through, an with your experience as former prosecutor, which cases are particularly dismissed before getting to a jury >> so, first of all, i think that's very unlikely tha they're going to succeed i doing that i do expect them to make a request for a bill particular, essentially get more detail, i think that will be granted they certainly will be raising some legal arguments, becaus this would be the first case that's litigated that migh involve a federal election prime, bringing up or bumpin up the misdemeanor to a felony i could see emotion on that, but in new york, you don't hav a right to appeal. any appeal would come later. i think as a practical matter, they're unlikely to get this case thrown out. usually the cases that do ou

very unusual, and so the certainly have some chance o doing so here, but based on my looking at this or my research talking to a lot of manhatta practitioners, former assistan district attorney's, i think the da's on very solid groun legally. >> suzanne, i think the genera public, certainly a lot of u in the media, we are familia with stormy daniels and he story of what happened but, david pecker is a nam that a lot of people may not b familiar with. how do you see his involvement his potential testimon impacting this case? >> isn't it just interesting that we thought of so much o this we've been talking michae cohen, michael cohen, michae cohen, and how does he fit int this david pecker is an incredibl character in this, and i think he is going to be, i don't wan to say the star, but he is going to be a star of this shouldn't go to trial. the reason is that he is the former editor of the enquire and he was involved in these catch and kill payments. he was involved in the storm

daniels ones that didn't actually go to a catch and kil and there was a private paymen that was facilitated from trum to her, but he was als involved in the karen mcdougal case where there was a catch and kill a catch and kill, most peopl know it, but it's where yo take a story and instead o publishing it you pay for it you kill it. he's been in the center of all these, and there's a third cas that's lesser known about this door man at trump's building where there was a payment made that this dorman claimed h knew something about a child that donald trump had fathered out of wedlock the door man had taken a payment of $30,000 it turns out that stories been debunked, but that payment was made the day that pecker is in the center of all of this. he was a figure when michael cohen went to jail, and no proceeding, and he has appeare before the grand jury in the case now against the peopl versus donald trump. he has immunity. i think he is going to be fron

and center at this trial, expected to go trial at this trial. it is really fastening to see, because we've been so focuse on michael cohen but it's going to be both of one. >> that's a really good point. jennifer, we've been talking a lot and looking at how republicans have responded t this, as i just outlined i this ultimately gets to tria on schedule, it'll probably be at some point in the primary you said that the gop primar is basically becoming a race t see which of his opponents are going to defend donald trump what are your concerns as we head into 2024 as we begin t see this case unfold over th next several months. based on what we see over th past two weeks reindictment an post indictment -- basically crying on tv or ru desantis or others coming to the defense of that no indicted ex president? >> yeah, it's really quite astonishing to see how this -- what is supposedly a race to

win a prize and between al these candidates, every one of them sounds like they're campaigning for donald trump none of us, i've never see anything like it -- the fact that this is unlikely to - not expected to be in cour again till the summer. that gives him an extraordinar opportunity here to continue t really nailed down his place i this race. i honestly - now, i don't know what's gonna come out of georgia, i don't know what's going to come ou of the doj, but as far as this case goes, i don't see anythin that will get in the way o donald trump becoming th nominee for the party. and frankly, we've seen it i the numbers already. the last poll i looked at, h had a 52% approval rating or support rating republican primary voters. i think that is going to continue those numbers will probabl rise and seeing stormy daniels on

the stand, i - it's going to give his bas more ammunition to say these people are to get trump, they're out to get us, and frankly, what i said just second ago, there's nothin that's happened so far that see that will make his opponents or anyone else in th party actually speak up and sa gee, maybe we shouldn't be defending this guy >> susan, let me get you thoughts on another legal case in the pipeline. fulton county da - expected to announce if sh will file charges against trum in the coming weeks. this is obviously in connectio with trump and his allies, and their efforts to overturn th 2020 presidential election as these charges might pile up if it does happen in georgia a well fulton county specifically, how do you see trump navigatin these cases and the 2024 presidential campaign? >> i think we have to pull bac

what we think about even jus the manhattan da case. i think in a year from now we're going to be looking at these as specifically the on in new york, a piece of all th stuff going on you have the one coming in i georgia, january six committee he is facing trial coming up just in a few weeks on at th jean carroll, on the rap charges, and then in october he is going to trial on a civi case in new york where he coul essentially be pushed out -- he's facing a 250 millio dollar fine against him. that's a huge case i mean, i feel this is a crush of cases coming towards him, and i don't know how it's goin to play out, politics, it's no necessarily my thing, i don' know how this is going to be viewed, but this is so crushin to me when i think of all th cases. i think right now we're so focused on the manhattan case, but six months from now, it'

going to be a piece of a puzzl that i think is going to b pretty hard for him to pus through. he may do it, i don't know, bu it's a lot of litigation comin forward all at the same time i'm sure i've forgotten in all of what i've just said there's so much coming forward >> i was gonna say, for on individual, one cases daunting and probably overwhelming to have potentially three or even four, including a federa investigation of federal charges if you look at wha jack smith is doing, i can't imagine what that would do jus someone psyche suzanne craig, jennifer horn thank you very much for your time in your insight tonight renato, rugged talk to a littl later on in the congress next, congresswoman barbara le is here to talk about a federa judge suspending fda approva of a key abortion drug stay with us stay with us voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪

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to a drug used in nearly all medication abortions here in the united states. in texas, trump appointe district judge matthew cause merrick ruled to pause fda approval of the abortion pil mifepristone for one week. the biden administration has already appealed that ruling and within minutes of the texa decision, u.s. district dutc thomas rice issued a ruling in a separate case in washingto state that blocked the fda fro suspending fda approval of the drug rice said his ruling onl applied to the 17 states and the district of columbia whose democratic journeys general su to protect access to mifepristone joins me now is congresswoma barbara lee. congresswoman, it's great to see you again. thank you for coming back in the show this is an issue that we hav discussed many times on th show with you, extremely personal to you. in 2021 you shared your stor of getting an abortion i mexico after you found out tha you are pregnant at 16 years

old. how crucial is it that miner have access to this care i this country >> thanks for having me, gla to be with you again it is very crucial tha everyone have access t medication abortion. mifepristone let me just say, this is another court ruling, a radica court ruling by a judge from amarillo, texas, can you imagine? without getting into all the legal aspects of this, i wan to make sure that everyone knows that medication abortion is legal still, and it's available. but, we have to really understands, if this decisio is just another sinister mov to try to get to the place where this country will enact national abortion ban. it's the most dangerou decision since roe, and we all have to fight back >> we know that mifepristone i one of two pills use intende

to induce abortion one abortion pill and set of two brings down efficacy and could worsen side effects. we're seeing a judge's rulin infringe on basic common sense health care here >> right the medical association issued a very clear decision, and m opinion about the dangers in this decision, this medication abortion mifepristone is als used for miscarriage management it's used for a variety of medical issues let me also say this sets terrible precedent fda approves the safety an efficacy of our medication can you imagine them - and the types of president thi sets where for other types o medicines that you may have in your medicine cabinets, fo other types of medical issues? so, this is very dangerous

not only because it's dangerou in terms of our right to our reproductive justice and freedom, but it's very dangerous because it puts th fda -- a puts us on a slippery slop we're fda will be undermines and not able to ensure the safety and efficacy of other drugs. so, this is very serious and w can't let this go down lik this so we are fighting back as co-chairs of the caucus with congresswoman diane, we ar working very hard to push back on this in many ways i want to reiterate, it's stil illegal and it's still safe, and it's available throughou the country. >> let me ask you about th situation we find ourselves in in terms of how to fight back, as you are saying right now. with these convicting ruling out of texas and washington, it's really put abortion providers in limbo some clinics have either continued to provide prescribe mifepristone, even if th

judge's ruling remains in plac after this week. your colleague democrati congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez says that th biden administration shoul ignore this ruling i want to get your thoughts on the. what do you make of that call? >> the biden administration, the president issued a ver strong statement about what, first of all, what he intend to do in terms of this appeal. secondly, why we have to understand that this is anothe step toward and national abortion ban also, we have to say that, i think this is very correct tha we have to - the moroccan public wants th availability of the of reproductive choices reproductive freedom reproductive justice, to b able to make one's own decisio about their health care. so, the president in his statement, talked about th political aspects that the public wants to make sure that

people have that right, an what is taking place is thos rights are being taken awa now. i think that's what we reall have to focus on and make sure that we engage in elections, s that we can elect at all level people who care about people ability to make their ow health care decisions abou their own bodies >> what concerns do you have that republicans will come after other basic health car medications, such as birth control next, and how are yo and your democratic colleagues working to avoid what happened with roe v. wade or with abortion, by fighting back against these attacks on other potential rights at this momen by republicans >> there are many challenges that are coming up you mentioned contraception an parts control pills. we see them beginning to mov on that. so, we have a series of bill in the pass, of course we're i the minority, but that does no mean we're gonna keep fighting

when we have legislation to do with all of the trouble issues all of the issues around the fta and many many, issues that the republicans are trying t move forward to pass, we are going to do everything we ca do to stop them because public sentiment in this instance - the public does not want republicans to go afte people's own personal decision about their health care. so, this is part of -- organized with our outside partners which the activists and are outside groups are doing a phenomenal job with ou pro-choice caucus, our democratic caucus, to make sur that we fight back and mak sure that the public's voice are heard in a way that come election time, we know who t vote for and who's on our side and who's not on our side. the public is with us. >> are congressman barr billy, it's always a pleasure thank you so much for time thi evening, we appreciated as always coming up, a judge indicates

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billion dollar defamatio lawsuit against fox coul include the mogul on the top o the food chain this week the judge presidin over the case said that if dominion issues a subpoena for fox chairman rupert murdoch an his son lofton maria rock quote, i would not quash it and i would compel them to come. fox has been desperately tryin to stop this from happening. last month their lawyers argue that the murdochs and other to executives should not be compelled to testify because o quote,hardships on those witnesses and undue burden given their limited knowledg of print facts fox has agreed to let a number of top anchors testify including tucker carlson, sean hannity -- and there's been an interestin

twist in another lawsuit against fox. -- the former fox producer wh alleges that she was coerced into giving misleading testimony at a deposition fo the dominion case has now been subpoenaed in a separate votin technology companies lawsuit against fox. renato is back with me today t discuss this case. very interesting develops myth here renato, what are dominion lawyers hoping to accomplish b getting rupert murdoch on th stand and what do you make o fox's argument that he didn' play direct role as chairman o the fox corporation, he may no be in the weeds about some o the comment content that was going on the air >> to me, this is another real masterful move by the dominion lawyers and this case. what they're trying to do is put pressure on fox news, an trying to extract as much as they can from the settlement for example, against fox news. if your rupert murdoch, yo want to be on a witness stan answering questions, trying to explain the inexplicable and

into defensible? i think, of course, this gives an incentive for fox to pave the settle - to pony up the dominion. it is a very smart move there. i have to say, i think that as a practical matter and this is one of the very rare cases where you have a very well put to gather defamation case, i which actual malice is not onl achievable, but it really look like they are -- it's like a mini pot they basically are already a the ball very close to the hole, so to speak. >> yeah, and you hav previously called the treasure trove of emails and text messages that were release from a host like tucker carlso and fox staffers quote, very damaging evening in the court of public opinion, even if this situatio doesn't play it for fox an trial, you've got to wonder ho

much damage foxes suffered and now fox is agreeing to let these personalities testify, are they setting themselves up for failure? can you imagine when they're being asked about those privat text messages, and shots on th stand for the world to see >> yeah, i have to say, this i just an absolute disaster fo fox. part of the problem for them i that their defense essentially here is, yes there were people who were deliberately puttin lies on the air, but it didn't make its way to the top, which is why at the judges lik absolutely, there's no way i'm going to quash the subpoena fo rupert murdoch i think the problem they hav there is essentially a numbe of very significant people i the network have essentially admitted that they were puttin lives on the air lies that not only hur dominion, but really demolishe the value of their busines very significant amount of money at issue here. as you saw, you mentioned moment ago, there's anothe suit on the way from

smartmatic this could be opening th floodgates so very very concerning if you fox news i think they set themselves up for failure, and i don't see the strategy i would've settled on the go i i was them >> absolutely incredible developments in that lawsuit renato mariotti, alway appreciated, thank you so much for illegal sites this evening >> - affecting miners and the peopl trying to help them obtain a abortion abortion r me. the always discreet pad is super comfortable. it feels like it's barely there. look at how much it holds, and it still stays thin! i've looked at myself in the mirror and i can't see it at all! that's the protection we deserve! (seth) not to brag, but i just switched to verizon. (cecily) wow! and i can't see it at all!

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the first state to ban interstate travel for minors seeking an abortion withou parental consent the bill signed by republica governor brad little makes helping a pregnant minor with medication opus or abortio procedure to another state punishable by up to five years in prison. it is set to go into effect in 30 days. idaho has the most restrictive abortion bans in the country with exceptions only for savin patients life, or when a cas of rape or incest has been reported to law enforcement, the aclu announced a lawsuit agains idaho attorney general arguing the state is violating healt providers first amendmen rights by trying to stop the from referring patients for an out of state abortion care but we've already seen these bands infringe on access t reproductive health with large two hospitals and idaho have now shuttled their labor and delivery services, meaning tha patients in the area will no have to drive at least an hour away for care. while the latest hospital to make this decision did not cit

the legal and political bill a a factor, the first hospital t shut down its maternit services did say, quote, the idaho legislature continues to introduce and passed bills tha criminalize physicians for medical care, and nationally recognized as the standard o care joining me now is michelle goodwin, author and la professor at university of california irvine, and alann ruble, idaho state house minority leader. great to have both of you, ladies, with us. i like to start with you, elen ruble, before we get to news from idaho we want to ask about you reaction to this abortion pill ruling from the federal judg in texas, rolling back 20 year of fda approval. what do you make of that decision large >> well, i mean, it really saddens me as an attorney, a well as a legislature, how all of the normal rules of pla have apparently gone out the window i think that ruling when trump got elected and started just disbanding all of our norms of governance, and now the idea

that a federal judge i overruling the scientifi findings of the fda that has you know, an army of scientist and doctors who have deepl studied this, and now a trum appointed judge can just com in on ideological grounds an say, oh, i know more about science than the entire fda. we are going into a really dangerous territory here and i sure hope this does no hold up all the way to our supreme court. >> professor goodwin, your thoughts on that decision? >> well, it really sets horrific precedent this is the first time that an fda's approval of a drug tha goes into the u.s. marketplace has been ordered to be withdrawn. and the arguments that were pu forth by the petitioners wer really quite spacious in tha they argue that this was a rus to the marketplace, it was not true there were 54 months of review that the fda did to give you some sense of ho that compared to other drugs placed in the market that same year in 2000, they had reviewe

for 15 months. and already at that time, they have been decades of researc into mifepristone. they also argued that it was a unsafe drug that was rushed to the market so, we know it wasn't a rush t the market but it turns out, it is a very safe drug. in fact, which has been know stated all across media is tha it is safer than penicillin, viagra, and even tylenol so, those are really empty arguments that were no accurate but we have a texas judge in amarillo, texas, judge kacsmaryk, the only one sittin there, who then issued a rulin that is really quite frightening for our country. and i'll give you one more reason why, which is that an fringe group that decides it does not like a particular dru in the marketplace good then select a particular district where there is a judge tha might in fact lean into thei viewpoint. and in a time of a pandemic,

where there have been those wh said covid is a hoax, or those that do not believe in vaccinating their children, it really creates an alarming precedent. >> yes, this is a very goo example that you gave there at the covid vaccines let me go back to idaho, if can, leader rubel, for a moment, your legislature is on track t fund research on materna deaths and the state has also chose not to extend post, postpartum medicaid coverage. your reaction to this week's news and how all these decisions are connected, if yo see them at all connected? >> they're absolutel connected. and i'm aghast, heading into the session, we knew tha idaho's incredibly extreme worse in the nation abortion ban was causing catastrophic problems you mentioned in your intro th hospitals that are seize delivering care, a third of ou fatal specialists have left th state. and about half of our ob/gyn's are currently actively looking into either leaving the stat or retiring because of our abortion laws. so, we thought they would come in and try to make it better

but no, at least at women' health exception or something. instead, they made it -- they shut down our committee that was supposed to investigate maternal death because i suspect we'l probably have more deaths amon pregnant women now with ou laws and i guess they didn't want a community doing too much pokin into mine. they banned miners leading the state, doesn't even have a rap or incest or medical emergency exception. it is really a five alar disaster for women here. anything that could help woman was shut down and they actuall made it worse. >> professor goodwin, i know this is very personal to you this issue you wrote in the new york time two years ago about how your own abortion saved your life as someone who has gone throug this experience, talk to u about how crucial access t abortion is, especially fo minors who have their whol lives out of them, and could b at risk at times >> well, to be clear, it is an issue that's crucial about our

democracy, and it's really important that we string those threats together the united states in all of th industrialized world - to be pregnant if you are a minor, it onl magnifies the risks of carryin a pregnancy to term. to give you some sense about how deadly it is in the united states from our own data, yo can look up the essentia intelligence agency's website, and they actually keep that on this we rank about 55th in the world, and the deadliest states to be private are the ones that have the strictest abortion bans. what this means for youn people is that it can be a death sentence, and it's not hyperbole. this is what we get from the data coming out of those state in terms of maternal mortality maternal morbidity, it i really horrific, and what we see in the wake of this dobb decision and the america landscape now is that there ar some states, three states, and there are some states that are

quite restrictive. and then the states that are quite restrictive like idaho with the proposals that have been put in place, the actua challenge, well secure federal laws, such as the right to travel, this is somethin that's been in existence since we've ever had a constitution. in fact, the reason why we hav the current constitution tha we do is because there was a question about the right to be able to travel and what we see is a level o lawlessness here that really i so extreme it's beyond, i think, what could've been imagined, even i the docks to sedition for thos who are paying close attention >> leader ruble, can i ask you about that really quickly? even justice kavanaugh wrote i his concurrent opinion, when the court overturned roe v wade, the distort could no enter -- at this point, we're obviously seeing idaho's going alone o this, at least for now, what legal avenues are available to you and your democrati colleagues to block this law

from taking effect, do you think? >> i believe there will be a lawsuit eminently, and i certainly hope that this law will be struck under the right to travel. but i think with this ne supreme court and the fall o 50 years of president, i think there's this real appetite t push the bounds. all of the rights that wer protected for decades an decades are now really in doubt, and extreme red states lik idaho are going to be pushin the envelope every way they ca think of it. we actually had a ruling fro our attorney general, an opinion that doctors can't eve refer women or tell women ho they can get an abortion out o state. simply giving information woul make them liable again, pushing the bounds of the first amendment, pursuin the bounds of free speech an right to travel, and they're hoping the 63 majority wil uphold anything they do. >> certainly seems that wa unfortunate for the moment >> leader allana rubio professor, i really appreciate your time insights thi evening.

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