>> good morning to all of you. thank you for being with us for this first show of mine here on msnbc. i'm ana cabrera reporting live from new york. we're staying on top of several fast-moving stories on this monday, starting with an intense abortion rights showdown that could be on a fast track to the supreme court. two competing rulings from federal judges putting the fate of one of the one of the most commonly used abortion pills in question democracy pointing fury at the judge who rolled back the approval of mifepristone john fed der man saying, quote, this ruling by a hard-right trump appointed judge is simply b.s. >> the new action from democrats aimed at protecting access to this medication. my conversation with michigan attorney general dana nessel who emphasized that medication is

still legal in her state i'll ask how far she'll willing to go to defend that an embarrassing breach for the defense department the investigation under way to figure out who posted details about u.s. spying on russia's military on an online video game message board. a lot of questions here. are they all authentic the big question, is there a mole in the pentagon a mad political scramble at the easter egg roll at the white house. president biden sending unexpected campaign shock waves, making this announcement to al roker live on "today." >> i plan on running, al, but we're not prepared to announce it yet >> well, sounds like he just did. so how does the president's announcement impact the plans of his potential 2024 rivals. let's begin with the epic clash after conflicting court rulings yet again up ending abortion rights here in america starting us up correspondent

laura jarrett, former senator claire mccaskill who is now an msnbc political analyst, and dr. jamila parrot, president and ceo of physicians for reproductive health which looks to ensure access to abortion care. great to have you with us. laura, let me start with you this seems like it's on a direct path to the supreme court. i know there's the appeals court first. we have this texas ruling rolling back the approval of mifepristone right after that, on the very same night we saw that separate ruling in washington state in direct conflict with the ruling in texas how soon could the supreme court take this up, and how do you see the justices ruling here >> first off, so great to be with you i'm so excited for your new show the justices could move pretty quickly here all depending on what the justice department does as you said, first stop is the fifth circuit. they've already filed their notice to appeal this texas ruling in the fifth circuit. at the same time, they could

jump over the fifth circuit and go straight to the supreme court basically because they have two conflicting orders that they have to try to comply with they have the texas judge saying this should never have been approved in the first place. they have a judge in washington state with the exact same authority saying the exact opposite, saying the fda has to maintain the status quo. how is it supposed to reconcile those two conflicting orders that's why this could be headed to the supreme court fast. >> laura, there have been some calls now for the fda to simply ignore this judge's ruling is there any precedent for that? >> that's something to watch very carefully this week the fda doesn't go after every unapproved drug on the market. many lawmakers are saying, look, the fda has a certain amount of discretion here, and perhaps given the conflicting order in washington state which is essentially saying the fda has to keep this drug on the market. maybe the fda doesn't go after a manufacturer that continues to

produce it that could be a risky move both politically and legally for the biden administration if they want to be seen as flouting a court order. they'll say, look, we have to use our discretion because our hands are tied. >> doctor, if mifepristone is no longer available, what options are available for women if they need this health care. i know mifepristone isn't just used for what people think of in terms of abortion. it's used in cases of miscarriage. what are the options if it goes away >> good question you're absolutely right. we use this medication for a number of obstetrics and gynecological care management of pregnancy loss, like miscarriage, particularly later in pregnancy we also use it for what we call cervical ripening, if you're getting procedures for your gyn care absolutely we use this for induced abortion for us, when we think about the impact of this, it will be

devastating across the board, not just for folks seeking induced abortion care or procedural abortion in our offices and hospitals. second question about what remains, there are still options for folks that need abortion care today it's important to understand you can still have a medication abortion using mifepristone in this country when we look at what happens if this medicine goes away, we still have other medications we can use. we can still use procedural abortion for those who want and need it. it's much more difficult to access for many folks, so that is the concern but that's also the intent of eliminate access to this medication, to make it harder for folks to get abortions. >> doctor, i want to play part of an interview with health and human services secretary javier becerra and get your thoughts. let's listen. >> the scientific judgments of the medical experts an those who did all the clinical research is

now being questioned, second-guessed by one judge in one state in one court if this judge says you can overturn that and 23 years of evidence to show it is safe and effective, you've put essentially every drug in america at some form of risk. >> dr. perritt, are you concerned of what precedent this may set of a court deciding what medications are or are not allowed? >> absolutely. for me that is the most frustrating part of what's happening here the fact that we have trained for decades and cared for our communities for decades many of us, and now we have someone with no medical training, no medical background, no medical education that are making decisions about hour health care so it is extremely frustrating when we look at who gets to decide what's right for each person now, in terms of setting the precedence, i think it's important to understand that i don't believe that this is going

to endanger other medications necessarily. only those used for stigmatized care we don't see restrictions placed on colonoscopies we don't see them placed on general surgery cases. we don't see them in orthopedic medicine this is specifically tied to reproductive health care by intention. so we have to understand that this is a desire to eliminate abortion it's not about medicine, not about safety that has never been the point. >> in fact, on the safety aspect here, which is probably most important and germane to this ruling, i understand that mifepristone has a stronger safety record than other common medications like viagra, penicillin, even tylenol i think that's important for our viewers to know. senator, when it comes to what's happening on capitol hill, there are a pair of house democrats planning to introduce legislation that aims to reaffirm the fd's approval of

abortion medication. do you think we'll start to see republicans come to the table on these kinds of bills that we've seen how strong of an issue abortion is for democrats, for voters look at kansas, look at michigan, look at what happened in wisconsin just last week. >> i'm not sure it will pass first of all, welcome, ana we're so happy you're part of the team this network loves smart women welcome to msnbc first, let me say this about any legislation. it will be important for this legislation to be voted on it will be a vote that will resonate next year in the elections. but let's make no mistake what this is. this is the level of hypocrisy that frankly is astounding on this lawsuit >> thank you >> this is a lawsuit that is really masquerading as a lawsuit. what it is, it's a political effort to end all abortions in

all of the united states of america. they did forum shopping which is gross and stinky they have a judge that has blown up precedent, and this is the essence of an activist court i don't ever, ever, ever want to hear a republican again saying they don't want an activist court. this is not but activist, to say nothing of the issues of standing and legal tenets that are really foundational to our rule of law, that this ideological right wing judge blew up with his finding and hopefully the supreme court will really not be so embarrassing, and will do the right thing and follow the law in this case. >> it's interesting because republicans have largely been pretty silent since this ruling came down on friday. i want to get your reaction, senator to something texas republican congressman tony gonzalez said yesterday on this issue. >> get off the abortion -- get off the abortion conversation.

women have a whole lot more other issues than just abortion. >> senator, your thoughts on that >> good luck, tony i've got news for you, tony -- congressman. i shouldn't be disrespectful women care deeply about this by the way, so do men. with the dobbs decision, it has changed the terrain in this country for keeping government out of women's bodies. we have forced birth in missouri for rape victims right now there are no exceptions. this is an issue that will be, along with weapons of war, committing mass slaughter in our schoolhouses across the country. those two issues that's the democratic terrain for a culture war next year, and the people of america are on the democrats' side. >> thank you laura jarrett, former senator claire mccass

sill. i want to bring in michigan attorney general dana nessel michigan has had a rush of abortion rights victories. governor whitmer -- into the state's constitution you wasted no time emphasizing that medication abortion is still legal in your state despite this recent ruling how are you prepared to defend that position if necessary >> well, the simple answer to that is in every way possible. the voters in our state have spoken following the decision by the supreme court in dobbs the supreme court is the one who told us that this was an issue to be decided by the states. in michigan, we did exactly that so this ballot proposal that enshrined reproductive rights into the michigan constitution pas passed in overwhelming numbers

more than that, we flipped the legislature. pro-choice democrats now control every branch of government in michigan we're not going to take this lying down we don't believe that -- sorry go ahead. >> sorry please continue. >> we're not going to let one judge in the state of texas tell us in michigan what we can and cannot do as it pertains to reproductive rights. >> do you worry about how the supreme court may rule should it end up there >> yes, of course i'm worried about it it will obviously be in direct conflict with what we heard last year in the dobbs decision but that being the case, we're making preparations in the state of michigan. we want to ensure that mifepristone remains available it's going to absolutely remain legal in our state the question, of course, is one of availability. we think there's a number of different avenues in which we

can ensure that that occurs. in the meantime, we have this contrary decision by judge rice out in washington who has told the fda that they are not to remove fda approval from mifepristone so what we're hoping is this, we're hoping that the fda will keep the status quo which it's been for well over 20 years now, and that this particular product will remain on the market and remain available to people in states like mine where it's perfectly legal and there are no laws to the contrary. >> that does remain in limbo with this texas ruling we mentioned there have been calls for the fda to just ignore this ruling. is that a stance you're willing to take? >> well, i think the fda should listen to judge rice who has indicated that the status quo should remain in effect. remember, in terms of this ruling from judge kaz merrick, it undermines every notion of

legal juris prudence that we've had historically in this country. this is not an emergency set of circumstances. there's been no evidence that mifepristone is unsafe or is dangerous. in fact, just to the contrary. it's one of the safest drugs on the market in cases like this, generally speaking, you don't have an immediate order that goes into effect prior to the case even being fully heard by the district court let alone a circuit court of appeals, let alone the united states supreme court. so we're hopeful that the fda will comport itself to the decision and the order by judge rice and not make any changes in regard to this particular product so it remains available to people in all the states in which it's legal. >> thank you very much for offering your perspective on this, michigan attorney general dana nessel. great to have you here >> thanks for having me.

i'm going to turn to breaking news right now. this is in louisville, kentucky, where metro police say there are multiple casualties after a, quote, active aggressor. the fbi says it's also responding to what they're calling a shooting they're assisting their law enforcement partners police say this is all happening in an area of downtown louisville in the 300 block of east main. this is near a baseball stadium. police are urging people to stay out of this area we don't have a lot of information right now, but gathering information is nbc news correspondent george solis. george, what more are you learning george, can you hear me? it's ana cabrera >> yes can you hear me? >> we can hear you now >> this is an active and fluid situation. we know police and fbi are on the scene. we also know that governor andy beshear is headed to the scene reports of this active aggressor

where there are multiple casualties this happening at the old national bank in downtown louisville an affiliate there says one witness was locked in the bathroom during the incident we're seeing a large heavy police presence gathering, there's going to be a press conference or update momentarily where we should be able to get more information as far as any number of casualties you see pictures rite there of the large police presence that is unfolding there again, as you mentioned, this is in downtown louisville right now the police presence is judge starting to ramp up as reports of multiple casualties are starting to filter in through some of the affiliates as you mentioned, we have limited information right now. we know this is obviously a heavily trafficked area with a lot of people heading in it's monday morning, so you know people are heading into work when you hear active aggressor and multiple casualties, obviously that sends a lot of chilling feeling through a lot

of people in this community. again, we are just waiting at this point for that police update to find out how many people they're actually looking at when they're saying multiple casualties to recap this is happening at the old national bank in downtown louisville reports from the police there saying they're looking for an active aggressor this is happening in the 300 block of east main police also telling people to avoid the area because of these multiple casualties. again, we are going to stay on top of this and continue breaking more information as we learn it, ana. >> i'm just getting told in my ear right now, we got a tweet from louisville police saying there's no longer an active threat and that it's been neutralized. we're learning more every moment here i wanted to read a tweet as well from kentucky governor andy beshear who says lmpd t police department confirmed a shooting

situation in downtown louisville with multiple casualties he says he's on the way and asks for prayers for those impacted let me bring in frank figliuzzi. as we look at these pictures, what's going through your mind what do you anticipate the response will be >> this is good news, ana, if there's any to be found in this tragedy, that we have a neutralized threat that, of course, is the ultimate goal of any responding police officers is to identify where the threat is coming from, who it is and mitigate it as quickly as possible. that's not good news for the victims and their families there. as you said, we're waiting to learn how many that is i have to put this in perspective because already, if this indeed involves four or more victims, and we'll find that out, this would be something like the 132nd mass shooting so far this year in

2023 >> frank, i'm sorry to interrupt you. police are giving an update. liss listen in. >> -- they encountered active gunshots still being fired inside the location at that time the shooter was confirmed to be dead on the scene. we do not know the circumstances of his death at this time. five people have been confirmed to have been killed inside at least six were transported to university of louisville hospital including one officer with various injuries. we're unable to confirm the status of those who have been transported at this time it will reiterate this is an ongoing investigation. this information is preliminary, and it will be updated shortly we ask that the public remain away from the scene. it will be an ongoing scene that will take a long time to investigate, but there is no active danger known no the public at this time. if anyone has any information related to this incident, we ask that you call 574-lmpd

we will have another update press conference at 11:30, where we'll be able to answer more questions. as of now, that's all the information i'm able to provide. thank you. >> -- >> we have confirmed at least five deceased at this time we have transported at least six to yutsz university of louisvile hospital. >> that was deputy chief paul humphrey giving an update on the shooting that took place in downtown louisville. we're told this is at old national bank. we just learned five people confirmed killed in the shooting with six others transported to the hospital he says there's no active danger right now, but certainly a lot to learn in fact, he said there was an active shooter situation as police arrived that shots were being fired. let me bring back frank fi

figliuzzi. >> we've got clearly a mass shooting on our hands. this would make the 132nd mass shooting of just this year that's more mass shootings this year than days in the year so far. this was a quick response by the police we don't know the cause of death. that hasn't been released this in other words, was this a self-inflicted wound by the shooter or did the police or say a bank security guard, since this seemed to be located around abank, who was responsible for neutralizing the shooter we don't know. we'll learn that in a bank or commercial environment, lots of cctv, lots of security cameras i'm already seeing video posted. in the video i've seen posted, i can hear multiple gunshots

i can hear police say active shooter in the bank. how do you evacuate commercial office buildings people have reported to work do you tell them to shelter in place or evacuate. i could hear a police officer saying get out of your car. >> it seems like the response was very swift, the fact that they arrived on scene as the shooting was taking place. now we're learning that the fbi is also involved heading to the scene. what does that tell you? >> sadly in these days, we've learned this massive law enforcement response is necessary and well rehearsed in major cities you hear mass shooting and you send your officers from various agencies i will also note if this happened in a bank, this could mean this was a bank robbery gone bad there could be federal jurisdiction for the fbi if indeed this was some form of a crime against the bank. >> i also want to bring in on the phone with us, atf special

agent jim cavanaugh. jim, let me ask you about where this investigation begins. the threat has been neutralized. no active danger what is the top priority right now for law enforcement? >> well, it's still public safety because they have to make sure that the person who is dead doesn't have an explosive device strapped on him or one in his nearby vehicle or one in his apartment or house the public safety emergency isn't over yet they have to do all those things of course, they have to also make sure there's no co-conspirators or confederates involved i agree 1,000% with what frank just said, it could be a busted bank robbery we have these shakeover bandits, we call them they come into financial institution, sometimes businesses with rifles they're just extremely

aggressive in their robberies. it can be a lone actor as well they're just very, very aggressive they're not all the bank robberies, most of the bank robberies are note passers they don't even have a gun or have a handgun hidden under their coat and show it to the teller this is only one possibility of what this is it could be workplace violence as well. it could be any number of things i'm agreeing with frank that the possibility exists that the motivation here is greed, robbery. the bank may be the target of course, that's a federal crime, a state crime as well but the public safety emergency for the city of louisville is on going in the ensuing hours until they can ensure no confederates, no co-conspirators, no explosive devices. then it becomes just helping the wounded and families suffering,

but then why did it happen >> jen, we're looking at pictures from the scene where we can see the flashing lights of the police response. they've cordoned off the area with police tape and a number of people on scene as they work through this investigation talk to me about what is probably going through the minds and just what it's like to be there as law enforcement responding to reports of shots fired, an active shooting scene, especially in the backdrop of all these mass shootings frank mentioned this is over 130 this year alone. >> well, you know, frank as i'm sure did, as i did many times responded to chaotic shootings in situations like this. the top of your mind is where is the killer, where is the shooter. and then what kind of weapons you're going to be facing. you don't want to get outmaneuvered. you try to get behind your radio

car, behind the building, get protection from the side of the building and maybe a shot. you're trying to protect innocent people. you're moving fast your brain is working 10,000 miles a minute your training kicks in you're focusing, focusing, focusing on the event. when the bullets are flying, it gives you a thing we call tunnel vision you focus right on the event if you can get to see the shooter, yasmin, you can see them, you start focusing on that they have a little more room now. the on-scene commander is from louisville metro police, fbi, certainly state police, atf, everybody is there the on-scene commanders will gather together and start making plans. it's slowed down quite a bit i'm sure since the shooter is deceased they'll start making their plans to do the other sweeps for explosives and co-conspirators

it will slowly, slowly lose its momentum if he is the only person involved as the hours tick by. >> at this point we know nothing about who this shooter is. we don't even know gender, age, motivation, target so there's a lot we don't know at this time for those who are just joining us, what we do know is that there has been a mass shooting event in louisville, kentucky, that's taken place in the downtown area near or in old national bank. this is downtown louisville. at least five people are confirmed dead right now six-plus taken to the hospital we also have learned that the shooter is no longer alive that threat has been neutralized, is how police have put it so now there's the big fact-finding that's taking place. we've learned there will be another news conference at

11:30, so about an hour from now. frank figliuzzi, what type of fact-finding is going to be happening in this moment >> there are a couple of things going on, simultaneously, as jim referred to. you've got a crime scene that has to be locked down and processed. at some point when it's deemed safe to do so, you'll see a crime scene team come in it might be interesting to watch who those crime scene folks are in terms of whether they are fbi, meaning someone has said, hey, we have a federal crime here, or whether it's a combined crime scene force or whether it's the local louisville metro police department. that's something to watch for. and at the same time, they're taking identification off the shooter, off his body, if he has any, wallet, driver's license to try to figure out who we're dealing with, who is this. one of the things they'll do, referencing what jim said, if he's got a driver's license, what kind of car is registered for him? now they'll start looking for that vehicle around town

is it parked out in front of the bank does that car pose a threat? where does he live search warrants toget into tha residence, into that car the sad process of doing the same things for the victims, who are they, notification of family members. there will be a center set up for families to come and get sad news that changing their life. >> i want to bring in justice correspondent ken dilanian who has new reporting. >> our colleagues are saying that authorities in louisville are investigating this as a workplace violence situation they say the suspect is believed to be an employee who may have suffered from mental health issues as i'm speaking, i'm getting a text from another source confirming that. so that goes a little ways to explaining the theory of what they think happened here, not a

bank robbery as we were speculating earlier. they're also reporting, as you heard from police, six victims transported to area hospitals including one police officer they're investigating this as a workplace violence situation by a potentially mentally disturbed employee we've heard nothing yet about the type of weapon used wii will also be another important piece of information in this investigation, ana. >> let me bounce back to frank figliuzzi. how does that new information change the trajectory of this investigation? >> well, workplace violence is extremely prevalent. it is, as jim said, it's the first thing you need to think of when you hear this we get into all kinds of exotic theories and really the reality, the data tell us, this workplace violence is one of the leading causes of death for women in america because of estranged relationships and spousal issues if this reporting is right, a disgruntled employee with mental

health issues, we'll see this move likely from the fbi to the local police and prosecutors for prosecution because it's not necessarily all about the bank it's about this guy's motivation for the workplace against his employers, not about robbing the bank then we've got to become more aware of the warning signs and indicators here of workplace violence if someone is on the path to violence -- again, we'll hear the discussion of mental health as a factor in many of the shootings and whether or not this person should have had a gun. that's going to come up. whether or not there was perhaps someone who was institutionalized, which should have meant that would have gone into the background check and should prevent someone from getting a gun. we don't know the chronology of events there we do know this. mental health is absolutely a crisis in our country as is gun violence we'll see what happens with regard to the fact gathering around this person's past.

>> jim cavanaugh, you're with me, still. your thoughts on this, in what is believed to be aworkplace violence situation five people dead and at least six others transported to the hospital. >> a sad day for louisville and the country. i agree with frank workplace violence is prevalent. people cannot stand the pressures of life. instead of picking themselves up by their boot straps, as we used to say, they go back to work and kill everyone. we see time and time again, someone is fired and they go back and shoot up the plant or the business, maybe the bank it's a sad, sad thing. we're going to probably find out, like we know from the fbi study where 77% of mass shooters leak before their crime, that this person may have leaked as well from ken dilanian's reporting, theperson may have had mental and emotional issues

people know that we get into what i call the tragedy triangle and that is there's some emotional or mental or anguish and there's some sign that there's a problem that other people notice. then guns are interjected into the person's life. then there's some response by authorities or mental health professionals early. so those three things have already occurred i call it the tragedy triangle then we have a mass shooting we have to center on picking those up and we don't. as a country we don't. >> i just want to be clear though people that have mental health problems don't typically go out and kill people. there are a lot of people who struggle with mental health issues so i hear what you're saying, that that could be a factor here but at the same time those who may recognize a colleague, a

family member, a friend who is going through a mental health crisis at what point are they to believe that that person is on the brink of doing something horrific in which it would be time to trigger some kind of a warning? >> you're exactly right. i'd have to say probably less than 10% or so or somewhere around that number of the mass killers maybe have been diagnosed with mental health issues much more we see suicide and ideations of violence and obsession with violence and mass killing. we're not necessarily saying center on mental health issues what the fbi study talked about is persons who leak their intent to commit a violent crime. if someone has mental health issues or they're emotionally disturbed or they're obsessed with mass killers, the point is that they leak this intent oh, i want to shoot up the workplace or i want to commit violence, and they're talking

constantly about violence. that's the one thing that's one thing that's not the only thing. then guns are interjected into it they go buy a gun, acquire a gun, obsess about guns, talk about guns and then the next thing is, maybe they're so violent or disturbed that people think i've got to call a mental health professional, call a police officer, i've got to call somebody to alert them about this person. that's what i call the tragedy triangle those three things it's recognized. there's firearms interjected into the person's life somehow and then there's some kind of event where there needs to be an intervention of police or authorities or school board members or whatever. when those three things happen, then often the mass killing follows. when we track back from the mass killers -- in fact, i saw a news report laugh week where the killer in las vegas who killed all those people from the mgm

hotel, that a colleague came out and said he had urged a guy many months earlier not to kill innocent civilians >> in that case -- that reminds me we never learned exactly what the motivation was some of these mass shootings remain mysterious. if we're try to learn from them, what do you see, jim, as the biggest takeaway at this point i feel like we're reporting on a mass shooting on a weekly basis, maybe more than one on a weekly basis. >> i agree with you. i think it's horrible. i think city by city, county by county, state-by-state and the federal government, we have to step up and create these special units in each county or team, extreme violence task force or extreme violence team, whatever you want to call it, made up by a sheriff's lieutenant, police

detective, state agent, mental health professional, school administrator, psychologist. they need to meet once a week, look at people that come to their attention and need to make sure something is done, that these people don't fall through the cracks, red flag laws, restraining orders thee legislators run away from anything with the word gun in it because of the gun lobby you can't take out one of the key elements and say that doesn't apply. everything applies and everything must be addressed so that's the way politicians also have to step up, on every front. all those issues have to be addressed. you can't pull one out because you think your base doesn't like it then everyone suffers. >> jim, stay with me i want to reset for our viewers

who may just be tuning in right now about what we are watching and learning this is a mass shooting event in downtown louisville, kentucky. at least five people are killed according to law enforcement they say six others were transported to the hospital. this happening at the old national bank in downtown louisville, the 300 block of main street for those who may be tuning in in kentucky and know this area. we're also learn according to sources that ken dilanian has been talking to that they believe this may be a workplace violence situation we also have confirmed from the latest news conference that there is no active threat as far as they know, that the shooter in this case has been neutralized. we don't understand just yet how that came to be, if he took his own life or was shot by police and their police response. let me go back to ken dilanian because we know you've been working your sources what questions have you been trying to answer >> we have three law enforcement officials telling us this is being investigated as a

workplace violence incident that the suspect, the shooter was potentially a mentally disturbed employee of the bank the question question now are what type of weapon or weapons were used here was this an assault-style rifle, an ar-15 as we've seen in so many recent shootings. of course, were there any previous contacts between this person and law enforcement that's always my question with these things it's a depressingly common question was there a chance to stop this? as jim was saying, was there leakage here there almost always is in these situations in some cases it's more obvious than others. in the situation in the recent nashville shooting with the suspect audrey hale, as far as we know right now, we don't know the full picture, there doesn't appear to have been any obvious avenue where that shooting could have been stopped. those weapons were purchased legally. those are the questions people will be asking, is where did the guns come from, how did the

shooter buy the guns, were they purchased legally and was this person exhibiting signs of this so-called mentally disturbed behavior was there aggressiveness and anger towards fellow employees were the authorities contacted were they aware of the situation? those are all of the questions that we are having to ask so depressingly common, ana. >> frank figliuzzi no doubt the law enforcement on scene is probably diving into trying to interview employees, looking at potential social media, trying to figure out what addresses this person may be linked to and following up on responding to those places to talk to friends, family members and the like what realistically can they gather when it comes to information between now and the next news conference in about an hour or less >> they'll have quite a bit of information gathered the question is whether they can make a decision to release it or not this early i think probably not, but we'll get a little bit of that

the colleague, co-worker interviews, i realize they'll be extremely emotional because they've lost their colleagues it looks like here. the managers, supervisors, very, very important i actually consult with corporations on developing and enhancing workplace violence programs i take them from saying and thinking workplace violence is all about how fast you can teach employees to run out of the building that's too late. that's not a workplace violence prevention we say every employee is eyes and ears on identifying the signs that a colleague of theirs might be headed down the path of violence jim referenced the leakage, the grievances that disgruntled employees carry. it's likely a disciplinary action or dismissal might have taken place here they'll interview the hr folks and colleagues what did he say?

what did he do it's important for corporate folks to take this as a teachable moment, that you've got to equip your hr people to deal with a high-risk termination or disciplinary situation and teach them and train them to identify this as a potential high-risk dismissal or disciplinary situation the language of despon den see, i can't take it anymore, i hate these people the acquisition of a weapon, training with a weapon starting to draw, obsess, brood about harming yourself or others then right before the flashpoint, which was this morning, likely these shooters become very quiet and often disappear. that's a clue that minutes count at this point, that they are absolutely headed towards violence >> i was just doing a quick check to see if kentucky is a place with a red flag law and if anybody knows for sure, please jump in. i can't seem to find anything in this initial period that suggests they have a red flag law.

i just wonder how that could have potentially impacted the case in a situation like this. obviously, there's a lot we don't know to answer that question it might be a little premature i'm looking at the twitter feed for the police department in louisville what we're learning now is there was an officer on scene in minutes, they write. they said there is no longer a danger to the public can they be sure there's no longer a danger to the public? i just think about some of these situations in which you have explosive devices planted in different places that you come to learn later >> i think, as jim said, there's the active threat, meaning relax, we don't believe that the -- the shooting clearly is over that's not the concern and something is giving them some sign, ana, that this is not -- they've neutralized this. it's all about this one isolated

incident as they do their search warrants, as they get into a vehicle, into an apartment or a house, interview others, if they start to see signs there's more to this, that the person maybe has military explosives training or something else is going on with the social media, that will treat and impact how they approach that home, apartment and vehicle. we'll see as that goes on. something is giving them a strong indication that this threat is over. >> everybody, please stand by. we're going to squeeze in a quick break. we'll be back with our special coverage of the breaking news situation unfolding in louisville, kentucky, where five people have been killed. shooter also among those deceased and six others taken to the hospital we're continuing to gaerth information. we're back in just a moment with the very latest. so naturally, wn with a new puppy. thankfully, we also have tide ultra-oxi with odor eliminators. between stains and odors, it can handle double trouble. for the #1 stain fighter and odor remover, it's got to be tide.

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fbi special agent clint watts. clint, what strikes you? what are your top takeaways? >> i think compared with many other shootings we've seen in recent weeks and months is the shooter is already deceased. they probably know a lot about the shooter. theyshooter. they quickly moved -- you know, tl there was some confusion in the outset about potentially a bank robbery and really started to say this looks like workplace violence i suspect when they do have their press conference we're going to learn quite a bit about the shooting and its circumstances, and then it also just speaks to, you know, i came on, frank cwas talking before, connections to other individuals or other bigger plots, there seems to be no indication of that at this point the police seem to be on top of it and reacting very swiftly and seem to know quite a bit about it so an unfortunate incident in this case, but it also seems like a lot is already known. i would expect when they do have their press conference, we're going to learn quite a bit about

what happened this morning. >> and clint, in addition to the local police response we're told fbi is involved in assisting r law enf law enforcement. when you have all these different jurisdictions involved in an investigation like this, is that complicating things in terms of organization of who does what, or is there already a plan in place that all they have to do is say ready, set, go? >> i think in this case they probably said ready, set go. i've actually been out to the louisville joint terrorism task force long ago they were a really well-integrated group there. that's also a city that borders indiana. they are pretty well-coordinated, i imagine they work together quite a bit. this is a metro area that i was really impressed with when i did meet them in louisville at one point. what i would also say is in had terms of response, this is the sadness of our country it has improved our sequencing and interrelation between all of

these task forces. because of the active shooter threat which has exploded over the last decade. you've seen all law enforcement agencies working together, training together, preparing for these sorts of drills. this response 20 years ago, if you might remember back to the columbine era, it was quite disjointed nowadays, i think all of these law enforcement groups work together much better from the federal, state, and local level. >> and for example, we're told that law enforcement was on scene within minutes, and we know that after columbine they were trained to just go for the shooter, not to wait for people to stage, to set up, to have more unified response. it's the first people on scene go right ahead and go straight to the threat, and so as you mentioned, unfortunately we've seen this way too often, and it just seems like the sort of situation seems to accelerate. we are looking at the podium on split screen we are keeping an eye on that in case anybody comes to give new information between now and when the next news conference is

scheduled, which is around 11:30. a little more than half an hour from now where we could learn a lot more about what took place this morning in louisville, kentucky again, just to reset and recap for our viewers. five people killed in a shooting investigators believe this may be workplace violence. we don't have any information right now on the shooter we do know that person is also killed six others were taken to the hospital we're told with various injuries believe this took place at the old national bank in downtown louisville, and my understanding is that those people who were killed were inside that building when this all took place, frank figliuzzi, as you're dividing up the law enforcement resources in a situation like this, who does what what do you think is happening in the investigation right now when it comes to trying to figure out what led up to the shooting >> good question because as we've moved from the initial phase, which is all hands on deck, let's get to the target and neutralize the target. now we move into the

investigative and intelligence and interview stage. so what we may see here are teams of people, atf, fbi, and louisville metro police teamed up or there might already be a decision that this is workplace violence, and this is largely local, and it would change to the federal response would change to supportive would you like help with the crime scene or what is the reputation of louisville metro, major crime scene team there, they are very experienced. do you need help with anything do you want to team up with interviews of employees. do you want a behavioral profiling, which will tell us -- will look at all the personnel file and history of discipline or determination of this shooting and say, you know, these were the signs that we see here coming. victim witness assistance from the fbi very robust program in coming alongside victims of crime, the firstamily members, e injured here, and offering them all the services that witnesses

and victims get in today's it day and age, and the atf, you know, jim kavanaugh long career at the atf, right now as we speak, the police have already called in any serial number and description of the shooter's weapon, if it's -- in fact, if it has a serial number don't forget in this day and age, we're looking at ghost guns today that are untraceable if it has a serial number, somebody at atf headquarters right now is combing through data trying to figure out where did this come from was it stolen? where was it purchased lawful or not? background check or not, all of that going on right snow. >> gun violence archive is calling this 145th mass shooting of the year, and i know you and i were talking about this earlier, frank, that this is just happening way too frequently, and i know we've discussed this before too, but at this point what do you think is the best solution >> so look, clearly if you talk

to the average american on the street and say do you want people to have guns who shouldn't have guns, and the answer resoundingly is, no, of course not, no and so we've got to get our hands around that commonality, which we all agree on, which is, look, someone who's in this kind of situation, the authorities should have some ability to say you can't purchase that gun or you can't even temporarily possess your weapon until we figure the threat out, so you mentioned red flag laws. i am a huge advocate of red flag laws they work when they are enforced, and in some states they're not enforced enough, and kentucky may not have one. i'm also trying to research that the fact that we can't quickly determine that kentucky has a red flag law means that maybe they don't we need to look at the state of that in the state legislature. a huge fan of the family members, even the workplace, and of course the police being able to say, look, time out we have to take these weapons separately you'll get due process you'll get these back if the

threats go away or you're wrong. we've got to take this weapon from you today and then getting better at mental health concerns and entering those in the background check so that person does not get the weapon. >> frank figliuzzi, thank you so much thank you to clint watts and jim kavanaugh as well as our reporters. i want to thank everybody who's been part of this breaking news. i'm anna cabrera reporting live from new york, thank you for being with us. josé diaz-balart picks up our breaking news coverage right after a quick break. stay right there now ports can know where every piece of cargo is. and where it's going. (dock worker) right on time. (vo) robots can predict breakdowns and order their own replacement parts. (foreman) nice work. (vo) and retailers can get ahead of the fashion trend of the day with a new line tomorrow. with a verizon private 5g network, you can get more agility and security. giving you more control of your business. we call this enterprise intelligence. from the network america relies on.

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