there is a scheduled press conference that is about to begin any minute now, of course we'll bring that to you. louisville police department say that the shooter is dead and that there is no longer a threat to the public. according to two senior officials, authorities are currently investigating the shooting as a workplace violence situation. joining us now is nbc's george solis, also with us is nbc's ken dilanian george, what's the very latest >> as you mentioned, we're waiting for that press conference where we expect the mayor, police chief, as well as governor andy brasheer to get updated information. the extent of the injuries not known at this point, sort of to recap here, we know that this happened shortly after 8:30 according to thauthorities. they heard active gunshots being fired outside or inside of that bank we'll get some clarity here shortly. we know that the shooter was

dead on the scene. police at this point were not saying how that occurred officials unable to confirm the injuries, and they say that this is an ongoing investigation. they are asking the public still to remain far from the scene, but as you mentioned, the headline here is that the threat is over and the shooter is down. and according to officials, this was supposedly an employee who may have suffered a mental health issue just to give you some proximity -- >> sorry to interrupt you, let's go right to a news conference that's beginning right now. >> got it. >> within three minutes of being dispatched, officers arrived on scene and encountered the suspect almost immediately still firing gunshots. officers exchanged gunshots with that suspect, and ultimately that suspect did die at the scene. we are trying to confirm if that suspect died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound or was killed by officers at this time. at least two officers were shot during this exchange of gunfire. one is currently in surgery at

university of louisville hospital at least four more victims were confirmed to be deceased inside the location as well as eight that are now currently being treated at university hospital, two are critical, one of those being the officer. we're currently working to identify all of the victims, work with their family for reunification and provide services to the families and the victims. the investigation i want to reiterate is ongoing this will be a long scene. it will take pretty much into the night. so i still ask that the public avoid the area i want to reiterate that there is no active threat. we believe this is a lone gunman involved in this that did have a connection to the bank we're trying to establish what that connection was to the business, but it appears he was a previous employee. it is clear they absolutely

saved people's lives this is a tragic event, it was the heroic response of officers that made sure that no more people were seriously injured than what happened we'll continue to provide updates as soon as possible. we'll have another press briefing following this at 3:00 p.m. today. i will turn it over to mayor craig greenberg at this time >> thank you, deputy chief humphrey first, i ask that everyone around our city, around the country, around the world pray with us for those who are currently at u of l hospital injured, fighting for their lives as a result of another act of gun violence. and i want to thank all of the first responders, the brave and

heroic men and women of lmpd who thanks to their efforts quickly responded to the emergency call, and as you just heard from deputy chief humphrey without a doubt their actions saved lives. there will be a lot more information we are able to are provide as the day goes on, but i want everyone in this city to know that notwithstanding tragedies like today when multiple people are killed by gun violence, notwithstanding tragedies when individuals are killed by gun violence, our community will continue to come together we will find ways to love and support one another and the families and friends who have been directly impacted by these

acts of gun violence, and we will come together as a community to work to prevent these horrific acts of gun violence from continuing here and around the state i want to thank again everyone at lmpd from the louisville fire department, from ems, from the state agencies and now federal agencies that are also involved. we are a safer community we are a stronger community thanks to the work of our law enforcement, and again, my prayers go out to the families who have lost loved ones today my prayers go out to the officers who are at the hospital right now and my thanks for all of them. together we will get through this together.

finally, i want to introduce governor beshear who has joined us and who is assisting with the efforts. governor >> i want to start by thanking the brave heroes in lmpd and our other responding organizations lmpd made it to this scene in a matter of minutes after receiving the call, and there is no doubt in my mind that their efforts saved lives and they put their own on the line. now we have at least one officer in surgery right now that is there because he took those actions to try to protect the people of louisville i want to thank louisville fire, and emergency management and the louisville sheriff's office for the immediate response they've now been joined by the fbi, a, tf, homeland security,

kentucky police in this response this is awful. i have a very close friend that didn't make it today, and i have another close friend who didn't either, and one who's at the hospital that i hope is going to make it through. so when we talk about praying, i hope people will for those that we are hoping can make it through the surgeries that they're going through, then we've got to do what we have done these last three years after everything we've got to wrap our arms around these families and to everybody who needs it, don't be afraid to get some help. our bodies and our minds are not meant to go through these types of tragedies, and so i hope that all the brave officers that stepped into the line of fire that are worried about one of their fellow officers will reach out for help when they need it

i hope every one of those bank employees and folks in that building, one that i know well and my ag campaign was out of that building, virtually everyone in it, that's my bank i hope that they will all reach out and get the help that they need there are a lot of people that are hurting today, and if we have a place to focus our energy, i hope it is to surround them with the love and the compassion that we have been so good at showing one another. i want people to know that while today is a horrific act, i do believe that this is a safe community with officers doing their very best each and every day, and that's what we saw here yes, i know that there are steps that the police department is taking to do things better after a recent report, but we certain ri ly saw i think the very best from them today. i want to thank them and all our other law enforcement officers for responding and doing their best to try to save some of my

friends and many others. thank you all. >> any questions >> you said stwo officers were shot, one's in surgery. >> the other one appears to be noncritical injuries at this time [ inaudible question ] >> i'm not sure on the status of that yet, that will be part of the investigation. excuse me? [ inaudible question ] >> it appears the shooter was -- i don't know if it was an active employee or a former employee, but the shooter did have a connection to the location [ inaudible question ] >> no. don't know that. [ inaudible question ] >> he asked was there any former security at the bank we don't know that either, that will be part of the investigation. so one more.

[ inaudible question ] >> we have resources available to make sure the rest of the city is kept safe, and i do want to reiterate that. we are managing our resources with the state, local, and federal partners to make sure that all services to the city is maintained while we're maintaining the scene at the same time. thank you, the next update will be at 3:00 thank you. >> a news conference there in louisville, kentucky, with four people lost their lives this morning in louisville at that old national bank building eight people have been taken to the hospital, two in critical condition including one of the officers that was injured in his confrontation with this shooter that lost his life after taking so many lives. we're back with nbc eas's ken

dilanian, frank figliuzzi, and also jim kavanaugh is on the phone, a retired atf special agent in charge and an nbc news terrorism analyst. ken, this news conference with the fact that police were there within three minutes and actually confronted this suspect that was actively shooting, just a very, very -- i mean, i don't even know how to describe this once again here we are describing mass shooters taking lives somewhere in our country >> it bottles the mind, jose, and we're having to analyze and grade the police response, which is a horrible thing that we shouldn't even be having to think about, but it does appear that in this case the police response was excellent they're saying that the first call came in at 8:30 they arrived within minutes to gun shots being fired from inside that bank to the outside

at the police officers two police officers were shot, one critically wounded they took the suspect down or the suspect -- they're not sure, they're saying, whether their gunshots ended the suspect's life or whether the suspect took his own life, and crucially, they're not saying unless i missed it, what type of weapon was used are we talking about a rifle, a handgun, an assault style weapon how was the suspect able to take so many lives so quickly, and what kind of fire power were the police up against. as we saw in nashville, this takes incredible courage we're asking our line police officers now to run into gun violence perpetrated by weapons of war in some cases it's just amazing. it looks like from what they're saying that it's four victims killed, plus the shooter, eight being treated in the hospital. you saw that the governor -- the governor growing emotional as he appeared to say that two of the victims were friends of his that

he knew, this was his bank, governor beshear of kentucky so a community just rocked today by yet another instance of horrific gun violence, jose. >> it is indeed, ken, and i thank you. i didn't hear the authorities at least in this press conference, they're going to be holding one in a couple of hours, did not mention what the weapon or weapons were that this person had. frank, just your thoughts on this it's -- you know, again, these just things that you're like it's just tragedy upon tragedy upon tragedy, and it seems like we're in this circle of repeating these same kind of things, and what we're talking about is people have lost their lives today. frank, the response seems very clearly just as good as you can have on this the fact that they encountered this person still actively shooting what are your thoughts on that >> ken, got it just right.

here we are now, we devolved in these things to now reviewing how many people died and how great the police response was to limit the number of dead, and i get it we have heroes every day patrolling our streets that don't know what's going to happen when they suit up with body armor every morning they don't know if they're going to see their families again. we have a police officer in critical condition in the hospital is this really what we want? is this our answer to gun violence, well, we have police officers who will put themselves in front of a bullet so there you go that's how this works. that's not the appropriate response nor is it from any legislature or state governor, you've got to do something about it, and so in my quick research so far, for example, kentucky appears not to have a red flag law. so when co-workers, managers, family members, police officers are concerned about the possibility that someone is in a place where they pose a threat,

they're heading toward violence, they can't take the gun away temporarily to make sense of the threat they can't do that in kentucky they can't do that in the covenant private elementary school shooting we just went through with elementary students being shot because that state doesn't have a red flag law. with regard to gun show loopholes, you can go out in any area in america on a weekend, go to the fairgrounds, purchase the gun at a gun show and not go through a background check we still haven't closed the charleston loophole, which defaults to giving a purchaser the gun if the background check takes longer than three days these are no-brainers that we can fix, and then everybody looks for -- on the nra side says, well, that wouldn't have stopped that shooting or this shooting well, it would have stopped many shootings. so let's learn the facts here, but one of the things i always

get on my soap box on, jose, real quick this is workplace violence, it looks like we all have to become that first line of defense in identifying the warning signs and indicators that someone around us is headed toward violence. we've got to get better at that. >> frank, figliuzzi, i thank you. i know we're going to be talking with you in the future i want to thank you for being with us this morning as we continue our coverage of this horrible stratragedy. four people have died had a shin a shooting this morning. jim kavanaugh, this is another case of police as frank was saying, you know, when they go to work in the morning, they're not sure what their going to be confronted with, but this is one of those cases where they just went in and took out the shooter one way or another, one in critical condition now what are you seeing as far as now the investigation and the

motives, we don't know what weapon or weapons were used. we don't know if this person is a former employee or a current employee of this bank, but what are you seeing now that authorities are undertaking at this moment? >> do i have you >> yes, i'm here. >> sorry, go ahead. >> the reason these workplace sha shooters get identified so quickly is that living witnesses know who they are. when law enforcement gets there and confronts them and when the dust settles, the living witnesses say, well, you know, that's joe he worked here he was fired or we know him. that's how they get solved so quickly, you know, as ken dilanian reported it was workplace violence, well, how do you know that so quickly you know it because the people there know who the shooter is. we don't know the weapons, the recent shooter in nashville, she

had a rifle, and she had a pistol variant that fires rifle ammunition and another handgun she had three guns when she went into that school sometimes these shooters do carry multiple guns, a long gun, handgun or two long guns that remains to be seen. atf agents who were on the scene, they would have been there quickly too. they'll do an urgent trace on those guns to know exactly where those guns went from the manufacturer to the last retail purchaser's hands which often in a mass shooting is the shooter people who plan these things usually are not career criminals who are robbing banks and in the criminal underworld. they're people who suffer some emotional distress and decide to take out their grudge and frustration on co-workers or others, and they go to the gun store and buy the gun. and you know, they pass a

background check because they don't have a criminal record so often we see that in mass shootings. that's not to say that's the case here, but the gun will be quickly traced and atf probably already knows what gun shop sold it to who, and they're already getting those records for the investigation. so that's some of those things we still -- as a country to make the right change in these counties and cities that can stop these things. of course we'll be interested to see, you know, what the leakage was on this, if there was any. i'll bet tlchshere was some, and could it have been stopped could it have been stopped that's where we fall down. as you were saying, jose, extremely brave police action. i mean, the highest standards of the policing profession in the metro louisville p.d. today. you know, right downtown, there's a lot of police downtown there's a lot of o'ppolice there

they were there in three minutes. they faced the fire. one's critical, one's wounded. just a great job, but it doesn't matter we still got 11 people shot, four innocent people dead no matter how fast you get there because you can't beat the trigger. >> right, and again, indeed it is, and ken dilanian, authorities are saying that one of the last questions they asked authorities, the assistant police chief there, was was there any kind of armed guard, et cetera, in that building, and the -- at that time the representative for the police didn't know that, that answer t that question. >> that's going to be an important question as the investigation unfolds. i'm now seeing that a witness told a local tv station that they saw a man fire a long assault rifle, firing multiple shots inside the bank on the first floor. he just started firing this witness said again, that's not confirmed, but that witness account is out

there, and i think it's important because it really changes the nature of this encounter if that shooter was armed with an assault rifle. it reinforces the courage of the police in rushing into that scene and why so many people were killed in such a short period of time, and it becomes a public policy question once again of how it is that people, again, what the police are calling mental health issues ar obtaining assault rifles which are continually being used in mass shootings in the united states. >> to just put a little context on it, this happened at 333 east main street in downtown louisville, kentucky as you say, four dead, eight injuries, and this happened at 8:0 8:30 in the morning. george solis, i know that the folks from old national bank have been commenting >> jose, this bank, as you heard from the governor is well-known within the community they just tweeted out in response to this tragic shooting

at our preston point location in downtown, members of the old national bank executive team including the ceo jim ryan are en route to louisville they say in addition as we await more details, we are deploying employee assistance support and keeping everyone affected by this tragedy in our thoughts and prayers. we can report via our white house team as we've seen so many times with these mass shootings, nbc news has learned that the president has been briefed about this tragic situation unfolding in louisville, jose. >> and jim kavanaugh, ken dilanian's research showing there was some tweeting of someone who actually witnessed what appeared to be the shooter with a long gun. once again, it brings up the whole issue of red flag laws, of, you know, is there anything that anybody can do to alert authorities that someone is -- has a long gun and is experiencing some issues i mean, how else and what else

can people do? >> well, we're not doing it efficiently as our leaders, our legislatures and our leaders across the country in all forms. each county and city, you can name it what you want, the mass violence team, the mass violence strike team, whatever it is. it should be made up of like a police lieutenant, a sheriff's detective, psychologist, school administrators, mental health professionals, you know, counselors, a team, a team of people trained, and they go to some training together they meet regular. they have an office or conference room. they meet at the sheriff's office or police station depending on the level of activity, they meet once a week or once a day or whatever they need to, and they have all the police and the schools and everybody funnel people who are at risk into them, and they are traine trained, and they know what to do, and they know how to get restraining orders and they know

how to get people counseling or get them arrested. assistant district attorney should be on the team as well, and they have direct contact with atf and fbi for help. this is how you do it. then you don't let the 77% of people who leak slip through the cracks because when they leak, it's posted on the internet. it's told to a fellow student, a co-worker, a family member knows it and it never got to a team that i'm describing. that team is the ones that can interrupt, intercept before the last minute at the bank monday morning. that's what you've got to do in america. we're not doing it we're not doing it it's happening in front of us, our kids are being slaughtered our citizens are being slaughtered, and we're not willing to step that team up that's one thing we can do we need better red flag laws we need to prohibit those people who threaten mass shootings from ever being able to buy a gun

that's a little longer conversation it can be done as well, and those are things we can do we have it all in our ability, we have the people, they're already on the payroll we just need some leadership imagination, some legislators who support that and each sheriff and chief of police and executives should stay we're standing that up in our town and county, we're going to stand this up so nobody slips through the cracks anymore, and that's one thing that, you know, just sort of hurts me i see this happen time and again. we stand up terrorism task force. we stand up career task forces on drugs, on all these other things this is a phenomenon sweep ing the country we need to stand up to, and we're not doing it we're waiting for our brave patrol officers over the point of the law enforcement sphere, we're waiting for them to go in and face down the rifles and just to close, when you are shoot a rifle, any kind of a rifle, military style rifle

inside a building like a bank, like a first floor of a bank, it's hard to describe the sound. that is so loud. it is disorr yen tating to you it's very loud on the range in an open field. when you're in a building, it's extremely loud and the bullets are coming out at 3,000 feet a second, devastating wounds, and that's why we're seeing as ken dilanian's reporting this on a rifle, that's why we're seeing 11 shot, four dead because the wounds are so massive. so we need to step up in america, and we're just not doing it >> and look, the fact of the matter is and i'm so glad, jim, that you mentioned this. i mean, the fact is that when police arrived within three minutes of the first report of gunfire and confront this person, there's still four people who have lost their lives and eight others who are injured, and that's just in the

immediate moments after that, and so ken, take us back to this morning at 8:30 in the morning, and for the folks that are just joining us, this is another mass shooting in our country. monday morning, 8:30 in the morning. ken dilanian take us to louisville, kentucky >> right, so what the police are saying, jose, is that the first call of shots fired at this bank, a well-known bank in the center of the city at 8:30 a.m. comes into police. officers arrive within trhree minutes and they are met with a hail of gunfire. they have not yet said what type of weapon. which by the way, jose, i find curious. they know the answer to that question, but they have not said they also call it an active aggressor when they first announced what was taking place, not an active shooter. i just put that out there. it's curious to me why that terminology was used the police were saying their offices responded immediately. they began firing back at the

suspect. at some point, the suspect was deceased they're not sure whether it was from their bullets or he took his own life two officers were shot one seriously injured and is in surgery right now, and four victims killed at the scene, eight includeing those officers taken to the hospital, you heard the governor of kentucky saying this was his bank, and at least two of these deceased individuals were friend of his he grew very emotional at that news conference. the police, again, being lauded for about as perfect a response as they could muster, but it wasn't enough to prevent the loss of these innocent lives, and we're still trying to find the answer to whether an assault rifle was used to take those lives so quickly, jose >> yeah, and jim cavanaugh, your ha ha thoughts on that i was kind of curious they didn't mention that and also didn't refer to it as an active shooter but an active aggressor. what does that tell you, jim >> police are always striving to

be accurate in their initial response sometimes they get a p guy witha machete or a baseball bat or some kind of sharp object, and you know, they get a report of people are hurt, people are stabbed, people are shot and so that kind of encompasses all violent attacks, but you know, there's nothing wrong with saying active shooter. the term we used often was active killer because that's the intent of the person they're trying to kill everybody whether it's with a machete or a pat or a rifle or a pistol, but all of those terms are accurate, so it's just the police are trying to be accurate. yes, i don't know why they didn't tell us what the weapons are, the killer is deceased, certainly they could they should at the next press conference lay that out. but they might not have wanted to, just to give detectives and special agent thes s a little c to get those weapons, the history and the trace information back to them

i guarantee somewhere in the louisville area, they're looking at the records or they've already retrieved the records where the gun was sold >> and ken, i'm sure the investigation, of course, will focus now on whether there was any indication any -- even a little bit of a possibility that this person who was either according to thauthorities eithr a current or a former employee of that bank, whether he expressed any kind of in a meme, in a conversation in a -- you know, through twitter, something that showed that he was considering something like this. >> right, and as you've heard from jim cavanaugh, there almost always is what the experts call leakage in these cases the only question is whether it happened in time for anybody to do anything about it in the case of nashville, and the shooter audrey hale, we know that she texted an old friend, a former basketball teammate just minutes before going and

conducting that shooting obviously that wasn't in time to do anything, but we don't know who else she was in contact with and what she was saying on social media, the police still have not released that information and have not come up with a definitive motive in that horrific nashville shooting. that will be the -- the same questions will be asked here, the same kinds of investigations will be conducted whether this shooter was active on social media or was simply in contact with people, was expressing disgruntlement again, the police have not said whether this was a current or a past employee. they said they were still trying to determine that. they have said that this was a workplace violence ncident, an then our sources have told us that this is believed to be an employee with some kind of mental health issue, jose. >> yeah, and i mean, the case as you say in the last shooting, it probably wasn't the last, the horrific one of that elementary school, in uvalde on the 24th of may of last year, the shooter also expressed that he was going to do something, but it happened

just before, you know, they're going to carry out their shooting spree so it's very difficult to be able to mitigate that if it's happening minutes or seconds, i don't know, before they carry it out. but maybe in some other instances there has been communications or expressions that go back a little bit that were leaked, that just no one took that as being significant. >> and look, jose, we covered a horrific incident in new mexico where a future school shooter threatened to shoot up a school. the fbi, two fbi agents actually visited him and interviewed him and his parents in his home, and he convinced them that he wasn't serious, and he later went on to conduct a school shooting. even sometimes when the authorities to respond, they don't always get it right. the signs are not always 100% clear. >> george solis, ken dilanian, and jim cavanaugh, i thank you very much for being with us on

this continuing break news we are covering out of louisville, kentucky, where four people lost their lives, eight people injured including a police officer who is in critical and being exactly now at the operating table. i want to bring in nbc news correspondent allie raffa who is at the white house you have some reporting for us on this? >> reporter: yeah, jose, just in the last hour we're learning that president biden has been briefed about the latest of this shooting in louisville, and i can tell you it's a bit of an uneasy feeling here at the white house as you can still hear in the background joyful music from what was a joyous event, the white house easter egg roll where there's tons of children on the white house south lawn playing out there after the president and the first lady delivered those remarks, the president and first lady after the remarks and meeting with guests, they are going back into the white house and subsequently being briefed on this shooting and it's not the news that the president or any of us here

covering this today really expected, and it's notable that this is coming exactly go two ws after that shooting in nashville that left three children and three staff members dead the first lady going to nashville to meet with the families of the victims of that tragedy. there is still so much we don't know about this shooting we don't know the shooter's motive or what could have been done to stop this shooting from happening, but it is notable that it's coming just weeks after the president issued that executive order, you'll remember, that essentially makes sure that everyone passed in that historic gun legislation passed last summer, that bipartisan safer communities act is essentially working at full capacity because the president has repeatedly called for more action to be done on gun control. that was really all he could do at the moment given the makeup of congress right now. remember that bipartisan legislation while considered

historic, it was still considered pretty moderate, and it was passed with democrats in control of not only the white house, but also the senate and the house, so it's very unlikely for anything further to be passed, so the president doing really all he can do renewing those calls for an all-out assault weapons. again, we don't know if that was the case in this specific shooting, if an assault weapon was used, but he is expected to, again, renew those calls in the wake of this shooting. so far still so many questions surrounding what happened here all we know right now on the white house end is that the president has been briefed about the latest in louisville, and we do expect possibly some remarks to come up, you know, in the white house press briefing at 2:00 p.m. from press secretary karine jean-pierre, jose. >> allie raffa at the white house, thank you very much you know, i come to these points where sometimes i'm like i don't even know what to say, it's like

this is happening over and over and over again, and i think of uvalde and i think of the many times this has happened and it just continues to happen, and then i just keep thinking today at 8:30 in the morning, there were folks going back to work, right? incredible weekend, going back to work, 8:30 in the morning and they're gone and eight people are in the hos hospital, and officers had to go in in a hail of bullets, you know anyway, we're going to continue monitoring this. we'll be right back. you're watching "josé diaz-balart reports" on nbmsc. i? -yeah. no. there's my little marzipan! [ laughs ] oh, my daughter gives the best hugs! we're just passing through on our way to the jazz jamboree. [ imitates trumpet playing ] and we wanted to thank america's number-one motorcycle insurer -for saving us money. -thank you. [ laughs ] mara, your parents are --

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41 past the hour now to the most significant case affecting abortion since the overturning of roe v. wade the biden administration is appealing a friday ruling from a texas judge suspending the fda's

approval of a widely approved abortion pill. the judge said the fda used improper measures to approve the drug, which has been used for over 20 years. if the ruling goes into effect, it could jeopardize access to the drug for patients across all 50 states. but there was a conflicting ruling in washington state where another judge ruled that the fda must keep the abortion pill accessible in 17 democratic-led states as well as washington, d.c. joining us now with more is nbc news senior legal correspondent laura jarrett. good morning so what does this legal battle mean as of right today >> as of right now, we are basically still in the status quo era, jose, and that's because the federal judge in texas stayed his own order knowing undoubtedly that this was going to cause quite an uproar he put a pause on it for seven days to allow the justice department to do its appeal on an emergency basis it's already indicated that it's going to do that in the fifth circuit.

the docket for the fifth circuit is actually now open, so you can see doj's going to intend to file something there pretty soon i might imagine. they could also jump straight to the supreme court, jose, if they're worried that the fifth circuit is going to drag their feet on this and essentially just let that judge's order go into effect on friday. they might decide to go straight to the supreme court and try to get the supreme court to block it as well that's really a strategic call, and it's not clear how the justices would come out on this, right? we know last year when they overturned roe, they said this should go back to the states abortion should be an issue that isn't decided except by the states, and so it will be interesting to see what the justice department wants to do hear with it not being clear how the justices would come out. >> so laura, just to get kind of the tiktok schedule of it. this order came down on friday, correct? >> yes, yes. >> gave seven days. >> so how does that process normally work? >> well, what's unclear here is obviously what happens in the

inte intervening time if the fifth circuit, say they put a stay, a hold on judge kaz maric in texas's order, say they do that this week, the justice department doesn't need to do anything at all. then the plaintiffs might try to get it appealed. i think what people need to understand is right now it's the status quo even still has access to the drug what will get interesting is if the texas order actually goes into effect. we talk about those two conflicting orders, right, jose? remember the washington state case doesn't cover everybody in the country. it only covers the 18 blue states that sued over it because the democratic ags that brought that case were worried about the texas case and so they did a mirror lawsuit that case in texas doesn't actually -- you know, the ramifications are a little bit different than the ones in washington state so it's something to watch there, how these two interplay >> laura jarrett, thank you very much for explaining that >> sure.

when we come barck, details on the massive leak of u.s. intelligence data. the search is on for who could be behind the akle you're watching "josé diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. using the services you want in the clouds of your choice. with flexible multi-cloud services that enable digital innovation and enterprise control, vmware helps you innovate and grow. next on behind the series... that performance was legendary. they just piled it on. roast beef, ham, oven roasted turkey.

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so they can do more of what matters. benefits. payroll. compliance. trinet. people matter. 47 past the hour, the search is on for the source of the biggest u.s. intelligence breach in a decade. nbc news has obtained dozens of leaked documents from the defense department the documents reveal details of u.s. spying on russia's war

machine, secret assessments of ukraine's combat power as well as intelligence gathering on america's allies, including south korea and israel with us now to talk more about this, nbc news national security and global affairs reporter dan de luce, and former founder and executive director of the national security institute, he is also former senior counsel to the house intelligence committee and a former chief counsel and senior adviser to the senate foreign relations committee. i thank you for being with us. and dan, what more do we know about what's in these documents? and there are a lot of them. >> there are there are dozens, and as you said, this is arguably the most serious breach of security since the whole edward snowden episode in 2013. it's on a smaller scale. we're not talking thousands of documents but we're talking dozens, and there is a lot of sensitive information here, classified information it's labeled secret and top secret it shows on the one hand how

much the u.s. has been able to penetrate russia's government and russia's military and the whole military campaign there in ukraine, and able to gain insights and help ukrainians prosecute their war, but it also has very frank assessments of ukraine's combat capabilities, how much ammunition they're using, when they might run out of it, what kind of damage was caused when certain strikes were carried out, and then there's these embarrassing details about how the u.s. is spying on south korea, on israel, and all of our other partners andallies the whole thing has become a headache the u.s. is still trying to figure out how this happened and who may be behind it. >> jameel, how sensitive is a lot of this information, and who's able to handle it normally >> well, this is the thing -- >> as a general matter, the people have access to this type of data are folks who have collateral clearance, that is to

say confidential secret or top secret none of the material that we've seen thus far, at least that i've seen on kisdiscord indicat it's sensitive department information. nonetheless, information classified at the top secret level, can come from human sources as well as intelligence. so we've seen already the kind of damage that we've seen the ke that can be done as well as information that we know tactically about the situation on the battlefield in ukraine. whether that goes to their supplies of s 30 o 0 air defense missiles or the shells we're providing to them along with our allies >> as you wrote in your online piece ton story, a former u.s. intelligence official said the disclosure of some signals intelligence reporting about russia and its spy agencies could cause significant damage if moscow is able to cut off those sources of information if that's the case, what could that mean for the efforts to help the ukrainians and also just i guess american

intelligence gathering possibilities inside russia? >> it is potentially damaging because there are these references to electronic eves dropping and if some of those sources dry up because the russians are able to figure out what, who we're listening to or what, that a, affects u.s. intelligence gathering and yes, it could affect ukraine's campaign against the russian invasion a lot of detales are in these documents they would not want out publicly the pentagon has acknowledged these documents are probably authentic. still looking into it, but say they appear to contain sensitive and highly classified information. that is not what the u.s. intelligence community wants out in the public sphere and it does pose a potential risk to ukraine's military effort there. >> and so jamil, your thoughts on where possibly or how this

possibly was extracted from dod or anywhere else that they're being held i'm just thinking like you know the spy balloon over the united states we've seen it over latin america. what are some of the efforts that are underway to get this information? >> there's a variety of ways our adversaries might get this out from an intelligence community agency they might use electronic systems. it appears that's what happened here oftentimes they'll try to exploit a human source that has access to this information what it looks like based on what we've seen, which are photographs of documents, some crumpled up, taken out maybe as trash, we've seen them taking in places with other objects around them that suggest the person who's taking them is handling it in an amateur manner looks like they may have been removed by a human source and photographs taken of them at a

different location then put on the internet it's hard to prevent that from happening because if you have a security clearance and access to this data, you can stick it in the bag and walk out the door. chelsea manning, edward snowden done in the past using cds or thumb drives or taking physical papers out of the building we've seen what happened when president trump, biden and pence mistakenly took information home >> and dan, quickly, it seems like they're being released in waves, right this is not just a one-time thing that we're seeing. dan, does that tell you there are a lot more out there >> i think we just don't know. one thing is that there seems to have been a pretty wide number of people who may have had access to these documents. so the possibilities are pretty

wide and various as to how this got out. we don't know if it was from within the u.s. system we don't know if it was from a u.s. ally. we don't know if it was some kind of a hack from a foreign adversary and we don't know if there's an ongoing threat if maybe there is going to be more information leaked so this is really kind of an urgent situation for the administration >> i thank you both for being with us this morning we're keeping our eyes on tennessee where in a matter of hours, one of the two democratic state lawmakers expelled from a legislature last week could be reinstated you're watching jose diaz-balart reports.

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to reenstate justin jones. gin what are we expecting today? >> reporter: jose, good morning to you yeah, the next couple of hours specifically at 4:30 p.m. central, 5:30 eastern, we anticipate a special meeting with a nashville metro council and at least 23 members of the 39-member legislative body coming out to show their spuppot f for justin jones this is just going to be an interim capacity a date has not yet been set. there is that other lawmaker, justin pearson, the second lawmaker ousted in the past couple of days he is from memphis his district of shelby county, those commissioners will be holding their own meeting on wednesday, but obviously you're

looking at the so-called tennessee three. gloria johnson on the right of the screen there survived the vote just by one vote and held on to her seat and when she was questioned shortly after the whole process kind of played out last week, she said that she likely survived the vote because of the color of her skin and obvious that has been the crux of a lot of the conversations in addition to the expulsion which is certainly a rare move in the tennessee state legislation and in the past hour or so, we received a letter from an attorney, from attorneys representing to the ousted lawmakers who have demanding house republicans to swear in those lawmakers if that special meeting goes as scheduled and all these men are back in their old jobs jose >> kathy park from nashville, i thank you so much. that wraps up the hour for me. you can reach me on twitter and

instagram and watch highlights from today's show online i thank you for the privilege of your time. andrea mitchell picks up with more news right now. right now, at least four people plus the alleged shooter are dead and more critically injured after another act of gun violence in america. this time, louisville, kentucky. a community now on edge searching for answers after experiencing a tragedy that could have been worse if not for a rapid police response. >> it is clear from the officer's response that they absolutely saved people's lives. this is a tragic event but it was the heroic response of officers that made sure that no more people were more seriously injured than what happened >> also this hour, access to an abortion drug approved decades ago by the food and drug administration hangs in the balance after a federal district judge's ruling in texas suspending use o