gavin newsom in california is hoping he can avoid the headache of having to get involved in this at all. doing so would mean he'd have to put his thumb on the scale for a very crowded primary race. >> yesterday, we saw two members of congress call for feinstein's resignation, not just a temporary replacement. >> right. >> living up to the billing of humanity's greatest and finest, thank you very much. appreciate your help this morning. thank you for getting up "way too early" with us on this thursday morning "morning joe" starts right about now. ♪ boy, that's a beautiful sunrise over new york city as we come up on 6:00 in the morning good morning welcome to "morning joe. it is thursday, april 13th i'm willie geist we have a lot to get to this morning, including new developments overnight in the legal fight over the abortion pill we'll dig into a new ruling, hours old, from an appeals court that blocks part of a decision from a trump-appointed judge

we'll explain what the ruling says. ahead, both lawmakers expelled from the tennessee statehouse for protesting gun violence have been reappointed to their seats we'll explain why this is not the end of the partisan turmoil in tennessee. and louisville police released a chilling 911 call from a woman who told the dispatcher she was the mother of the old national bank shooter. we'll play for you her frantic call and have the latest in that investigation. plus, donald trump is back in new york this morning for a different legal issue. this one with the state's attorney general we'll take you through what's happening today in that case meanwhile, there are new developments in the investigation into the former president's handling of classified documents we'll look at the reporting on a map trump may have taken with him to mar-a-lago after leaving the white house. with us this morning, msnbc contributor mike barnicle. u.s. special correspondent for bbc news ckatty kay. white house editor for "politico," sam stein. doing a bang-up job on "way too

e early. author of "the play book," eugene daniels we'll see him shortly. and from "the washington post," george conway. good morning to you all. mike, we have to start with coming up on history in major league baseball. rays are 12-0. beat the red sox last night. they're knocking on the door for the record of the best start in major league history, 13-0, held by a couple teams. they're mashing. scoring nine runs again last night. >> the rays are an amazing story, amazing franchise, actually they do what they do each and every year they renew their roster incredibly well. they do it at half the budget of big teams like the yankees, red sox, other teams it's a tribute to their minor league system, their scouting, their analytics people unfortunately for them, they could have the best team in major league baseball, and they still can't get a third of people to come and fill that

ballpark. >> yeah, it's not a great ballpark, but that's not an excuse when you have a team this good mike, just for casual fans or people who aren't baseball fans, how do you explain this exactly? the yankees and the red sox, all these other teams have all the money. the rays, as you said, they have to do it every two years they can't go sign aaron judge to $400 million contract they have to find guys, bring them through the farm system, knowing they're probably going to sign with the red sox orian k yankees in a couple years. >> it's a two-part thing one, their renewal system, where they renew the roster every two, three years is based on excellent eyeball scouting and excellent analytics. a lot of teams have both one of the keys is they don't have a real genuine fan base i'm sure they have a solid 8,000, 10,000 people who go to games year in and year out the idea they could let go of people who were participating on their team and doing very well, they could let them go overnight

with no, you know, fan base uproar, as what happened in boston, awhat happened with mookie betts, if aaron judge signed with the giants, none of that the fan base is so inadequate. >> the rays are go for the record of 13-0 they play the red box again this afternoon at 1:00 down in tampa. let's turn to the news overnight, we learned a federal appeals court has partially blocked a ruling that halted approval of the most widely used abortion pill in the united states the fifth circuit court of appeals granted the justice department's emergency request to put on hold part of a ruling made last week by a u.s. district judge in texas that suspended the fda's approval of mifepristone that approval dates back to the year 2000. however, the fifth circuit court ruled part of the texas judge's ruling could go into effect. first, changes the fda made to the drug's approval used in 2016 will be suspended.

that includes a rule that reduced the number of in-person visits patients are required to make from three to one second, the fda's finding in 2021 that the drug can be distributed by mail also would be paused. the fifth circuit court was divided in its decision, 2-1 both appointees of former president donald trump were in the majority the other judge, an appointee of former president george w. bush said she would have temporarily blocked the entire ruling. the department of justice still can ask the supreme court to intervene to completely block the original decision by the texas judge. so, eugene daniels, obviously, this is something the white house has watched with keen interest, as you cover every day. this is kind of a split decision, as we parse through. this just came down a few hours ago, as we sift through it the abortion pill will still be available but with some of the restrictions called for by this texas judge. >> that's right. i was at the kind of announcement and the meeting of

the task force on reproductive access for the white house, where vice president harris, the attorney general, secretaries across the administration were there, talking about this, what they were expecting, giving people updates more importantly, talking about how much they're going to fight on this, right it does seem kind of probable that they might still want to take this to the supreme court, because they don't want to be seen as just kind of accepting the dismantling of this pill that's been available for 23 years. one of the things i think has been really fascinating is hearing an administration that doesn't have a lot of tools to do much about abortion and trying to do those things at the same time. they introduced the -- they took a guidance and turned ed it ina proposed rule that would have some privacy, attacks some privacy concerns they have they're trying to nibble around the edge on this issue one, they know that they feel

very -- they feel like it is very important, but also probably something we all know politically, this is something that was a big part in the midterms they see it as a winning issue as they move forward they honestly think republicans and the right have overplayed their hand one thing that's really interesting is that we haven't heard from a lot of the top republicans on this issue. they're out of town, obviously also, the republican presidential candidates, folks that might be there, you're not hearing from them on this or abortion in general. that is something that this white house and democrats writ large are watching with glee they know that they think republicans feel they don't really know where to go with this issue. >> george, reading the three-judge panel's ruling overnight here about this, basically what they're saying is, the statute of limitations is up on this. you can't go back to a 2000 fda approval and change that 23 years later. but they did leave in place some of those restrictions. you can't get it by mail anymore

for the time being anyway. what do you make of this ruling? >> i think there are a lot of other issues with the decision that are going to come out when the case gets heard on the merits for example, i don't understand, on first reading or second reading, how it is these particular plaintiffs, who are doctors who do not prescribe this drug, have in any way a legal standing to challenge either things that happened in 2000 or things that happened after 2016, which is what the court after appeals last night allowed, upheld, at least temporarily, against the challenge. i think this lawsuit in the end is going to fail by the anti-abortion plaintiff doctors. may take a few weeks to get it done, but i just don't understand it, how this decision ever came about. >> katty kay, that's kind of the case that was made by the one judge, the george w. bush

appointee, who said, i would have voted to block this ruling entirely there's no standing. the statute of limitations is up this should remain as accessible as it has been for 23 years. >> those in favor of abortion rights say from a historical and medical perspective, this is a safe drug. it's been proven to be safe. it is approved in other countries and has been for decades. they felt pretty confident that they would be able to overrule this case. i think the bigger issue is that, time and again, it looks like we're going to see from the anti-abortion movement, attempts to chip away and make an abortion ban federal from both the surgical and medical point of view. they may not be able to do that, but the fact they've moved this fast, despite what you pointed out, willie, the politics of this being in democrats' mfavor, and states around the country doing what they can to enshrine abortion rights, there's still a movement from the anti-abortion crowd that they're not satisfied

with the dobbs ruling. they never were. they made it very clear immediately after dobbs that they were not satisfied with the dobbs ruling that was just the beginning in their eyes this is set up still to be a political, legal and medical tussle going forwards. it's not clear that that's going to stop. >> katty, what's your sense of -- let's separate the legalese that's going on from this particular issue. >> thank goodness. >> what is your sense of the fact that, at ground level, what this means is, you're taking something away from people, specifically women you're taking a right away that they have had for decades. what's your sense of the impact of that sole loss of a right >> america prides itself on being a country that expands people's rights, that expands rights of access to those who have not traditionally had things that's why the dobbs ruling was a blow, not just within the united states but -- not to get

too 50,000 feet about this -- but to america's image around the world. i mean, here was a rollback of a right, and that seemed to go against the perception of what america stands for i can't tell you, as i've been traveling around europe the last few months, the two things that people raise as concerns about the u.s. at the moment first is guns, second is abortion even in catholic countries in europe, even in ireland, which has made progress on rights of access to abortion, it's really striking, the degree to which america is an outlier at the moment compared to other western democracies, in allowing people rights to abortion. >> that's the abortion question. on the other issue, guns it ties in here. both tennessee lawmakers who were expelled from the state legislature last week have been reappointed to their seats remember, they were protesting over gun safety laws blayne alexander has the new

developments >> reporter: the vote happened in less than a minute. >> passes. >> ousted state representative justin pearson is headed back to his seat in the tennessee statehouse the decision was in the hands of the shelby county commission among the seven members who showed up, a unanimous decision to reinstate pearson, one of two lawmakers whose unprecedented expulsion has become a national rallying cry. >> they tried to expel the people's voice and the people's vote and they awakened a sleeping giant. >> reporter: last week, tennessee's republican-led house voted to expel pearson and fellow representative justin jones, both democrats, after they broke house rules while protesting gun laws. >> this is what democracy looks like >> reporter: surrounded by a crowd of hundreds, both lawmakers gathered at the national civil rights museum before marching with supporters to fill the commission chamber. >> what does it say to you, so many people are supporting you >> justice happened in the state of tennessee

today, tomorrow and into the future. >> reporter: republicans say the expulsion was fair punishment for violating decorum, speaking into bull horns on the house floor, but critics say it sets a dangerous precedent. now, democrats are calling on the justice department to determine whether the expulsion violated the constitution or federal civil rights writing, unless the doj steps in, anti-democratic actors will only be emboldened >> nbc's blayne alexander reporting for us from tennessee. eugene daniels, in less than a week, you have both of the justins, pearson and jones, reinstated to their seats. now all three of the tennessee three are back where they started, inside the house of representatives. i had a democrat say to me, the republicans who made this decision last week might as well have been democratic plants for what they gave the party overturning the will of the voters, expelling for a peaceful protest, and then allowing them -- then they come right back without realizing they could come right back in a few days later giving all this energy to the

gun rights movement and the democratic party. >> exactly right when you talk to republican political strategists, especially here in d.c., they talk about how much of a misstep this was for republicans in tennessee, right you galvanized these folks you make both of these men national figures they spend days on television all across the spectrum, talking about this also, you getdays and days from the beginning, it was obvious both of these gentlemen would be back where they started, like you said a misstep for republicans in tennessee on how they handled this i think you haven't seen republicans, national republicans, saying anything about this because they want to stay out of it it wasn't a winning issue. it isn't a winning issue for them you also have vice president harris going there, right? it has created this kind of -- as justin pearson said, it's awakened the sleeping giant in tennessee.

it doesn't mean there's going to be gun legislation, gun safety legislation that's going to move forward in the state it's obviously still a very red state. that means that the movement has more oomph in it you'll have these young people continuing to protest. the three folks who were censured, or the two kicked out and the one woman who was not voted out, they're going to continue to fight this fight, as we continue. there is a month or two left in session. republicans misstepped here. >> let me just add to that you know, we wouldn't know who these people were a couple weeks ago if not for the actions of the state republican party they absolutely elevated these protesters, these lawmakers, in ways that they never could have imagined probably grateful for the elevation. the money they raised, the attention they brought to the cause of gun violence in tennessee, all were amplified by the fact that the state republican party took an extraordinary step to expel them from the chamber

i guess i have a question for george, as the resident republican on the panel here if you still deem yourself one, i suppose. but is this just kind of indicative of modern republican politics, in your estimation this notion of shoot first, aim later, try to take out your opponent if it backfires, so be it. you move on to the next fight. >> well, in my defense, five years ago, i left the republican party because i -- >> fair enough, george. >> -- made some personality calls. but i agree with all that has been said. it really was just a stupid, thoughtless reaction to something. you know, it is something that angered them i think it's meant to pitch to the most extreme elements of the republican party this is just something -- look, i mean, obviously, you have to have decorum in a legislature. no question, you should have decorum in a legislature you want to have peaceful debate you wantto have debate where,

you know, people can hear each other and listen to each other but to expel these legislators, particularly when they were going to get reinstated, just was completely and utterly counterproductive. as was just said, i mean, nobody would have heard about these people but for the fact that they were expelled they expelled the two black guys but not the white woman. so it's really just an amazing, amazing degree of stupidity that we're seeing by republicans in this regard. >> actually, the republican governor of tennessee yesterday signed an executive order aimed at strengthening background checks maybe nippling around the edges. that's the republican governor of the state of tennessee saying, "we have to do something to make guns safer, and the people who get them not have backgrounds that might cause them to do harm. we'll come back to this story in a moment. meanwhile, prosecutors are looking into whether donald

trump made false claims to raise money and scam campaign donors after the 2020 election. that's according to t"the washington post", which cites several sources familiar with the probe. jack smith is investigating trump's election fraud claims and his role in the january 6th insurrection "the post" reports his office sent subpoenas to trump's advisers, former campaign aides and other consultants. some of those people reportedly testified in front of a grand jury the probe focuses on the money raised between november of 2020 and january 20th, 2021 sources tell the paper, trump's appeals to supporters during that time generated more than $200 million in donations. also, new developments this morning in jack smith's investigation into trump's handling of classified documents. "the new york times" reports federal investigators now are asking witnesses whether trump showed off a map that he took with him after leaving office to aides and visitors four people with knowledge of the matter say the map contains sensitive intelligence

information. the exact nature of the map and the information it contains remains unclear. investigators have been gathering evidence about whether trump had aides bring him boxes to sift through after a grand jury subpoena was issued for the return of any government documents in his possession last may. george conway, dealer's choice, we can go back to the first trump investigation or mar-a-lago if you want, but when we talk about the january 6th insurrection, this is something that the select committee on january 6th looked into, talked about during the hearings, as well, which is the hustle, the shakedown to raise $200 million, at least, off of trump's supporters based on the lie that election had been stolen. >> right it was hundreds of millions of dollars that they couldn't have possibly used to bring 60 m merit-less lawsuits that were thrown out of court. one of the things that always

struck me about political fundraising is you can almost say anything and get away with it whereas, if you are advertising tooth peapaste or something andu have people send you toothpaste that rots out your teeth, you'd go to jail for mail or wire fraud. i never understood that. this will be an interesting case for that reason. the first amendment does not protect people from -- should protect speech that is designed to fleece hundreds of thousands of people of hundreds of millions of dollars. that's essentially what happened here they just made lies saying they needed this money to challenge election fraud, but they were the only ones who were committing fraud they were committing fraud on all these people who sent in these checks thinking that they were somehow going to uncover fraud when everyone in the trump campaign was telling the president of the united states that, you know, there's no there there. >> george, so they raise over $200 million, around there, from

election day, november, and january 6th, 2021. what would the charge be for this six-week period of raising $200 million what would the legal charge be >> the legal charge would be mail and wire fraud. if you deprive people of money and property through the use of -- through false pretenses, through the mails or the wires, and here, obviously, they used email which is the wires and it is interstate commerce, that's illegal under 18 usc 1341 and 1343, the mail and wire fraud statutes those cases are prosecuted all the time i mean, the steve bannon case was an example, the one that was dropped of trump's pardon of steve bannon that's exactly what they said, "send us this money and we'll build a wall." they didn't build a wall they were just using it to line

their own pockets. that's, you know -- stealing money, lying to get money is illegal. it isn't protected by the first amendment. it shouldn't be. >> former president is up to it again. remember, claiming he was about to be arrested, send me money to stop this injustice. continues to do it george, before we let you go, mar-a-lago documents case, just based on what we heard yesterday, it's clear that the special counsel, jack smith, is able to do two things at once. looking at january 6th and also looking at what happened down at mar-a-lago how strong is your sense of the case building now against the former president there >> well, my sense of this case has been almost since date of the search warrant execution at mar-a-lago, that this is the shortest -- this case is the shortest distance between donald john trump and an orange jump suit i still adhere to that view. it's just very clear that he -- i mean, if a quarter of what we've read is true, he

obstructed justice he was trying to avoid producing these documents. he had his -- he lied to his lawyers about the status of the documents so they would, in turn, misinform the government, which is why judge howell in the district of columbia held a crime fraud exception, applied the crime fraud exception to the attorney-client privilege, therefore, trump's lawyers are witnesses against him. if he was moving documents around himself, that he was trying to hide them so he could show them off to people, well, you know, that's obstruction of justice, even apart from the illegal retention of the documents, which he essentially stole from the american people because he just claimed they belonged to him when they didn't. >> we will keep an eye on this by the way, george, you passed mike barnicle's pop quiz when he asked what the charge was. giving the specific number, the letter of the law about what the citation was there he is, george conway thanks so much great to see you

still ahead on "morning joe," police in louisville release the audio from 911 cal s that flooded dispatchers as monday's deadly mass shooting unfolded, including a chilling call from the gunman's own mother. plus, an update on the federal investigation into child labor across the country it's something nbc's julia ainsley has been covering very closely. she has some new, exclusive reporting. also ahead, we are watching out for another key economic report today after data yesterday revealed inflation appears to be cooling a bit. steve rattner joins us with charts pointing to some more positive signs for the economy you're watching "morning joe" on a thursday morning we'll be right back.

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welcome back to "morning joe. we are expecting more key inflation adata after the labor department report rose consumer prices rose 0.1% in march. it marks a slowdown as the fed weighs its next move on interest rates. joining us to make sense of the numbers, former treasury official, "morning joe" economic analyst, steve rattner at the big wall with his big charts steve, good morning. what are you looking at? >> good morning, willie. well, we had inflation numbers -- sorry -- yesterday, as you said, and the news was basically pretty good. let's look at it a couple ways first, we have headline inflation, which is all the prices put together. you can see there, we climb that mountain these are year-over-year numbers. then we came down the mountain you can see the monthly increases coming down. this decline is heavily driven by things like energy, gas prices having peaked after that terrible time about a year or so ago, food and so forth

coming down from 6% to 5% in one month. that's really good news. the thing we need to be a little concerned about is what we call core inflation you take out food, energy and the things that do move up and down so quickly, and look at literally the core of the economy. there, the news wasn't quite as good it ticked up a little bit to just over 5% this is the challenge for the fed. you have to get from there to there, and that is going to be still hard work, maybe one more interest rate coming in early may. then woe'll see what happens frm there. >> is that the sense, steve, they'll make one more interest rate hike at the fed before kind of leaving things steady >> the market is jaumping up an down based on every indicator. it's at a two-thirds chance of another 25-basis point quarter increase, then the fed pausing to see what happens after that. >> all right let's move down to your next chart. some really good news, in fact, a record for black unemployment in this country. >> yeah. last friday, we had the jobs numbers, 236,000 new jobs, about as expected, continuing that

pace of steady, strong job creation the interesting news, as you suggested, is what's been happening to black unemployment. black unemployment has historically been much higher. the red line here, than white unemployment early '80s, over 20% after the gfc, 17% spiked again during covid. now, we're down at 5%. the lowest ever recorded and, actually, white unemployment didn't move barely at all last month. black unemployment is coming down this is what happens when you have a hot economy, a strong economy. basically, employers need workers so much, they, in effect, suck into the labor force people who haven't been able to find jobs in less robust, economic times. >> record low of 5%. as you said, to put that into perspective, during the financial crisis of 2010, black unemployment was at 17%. 5% is a good number. let's look at your third chart some more good news, steve, about income gains, strongest at the bottom of the economic ladder.

>> yeah. we've talked a lot over the years about income inequality and how bad it is for people at the bottom you can see particularly after the gfc, this red line, the bottom quarter of americans, people earning $35,000 or less, so not a lot of money. see what happened to their incomes and remember the angst that created when that happened. then it stepped back up st steadily again, a strong economy before covid brought it up -- brought the rate of increase up here look where it's come to now. since the beginning of 2020, real, meaning after inflation, increases in incomes for people at the bottom very up 7% people at the top, only up 2%. obviously, a long way to go to address income inequality. as we run this hot economy, we're making a bit of proguress on that front. >> steve, do you have explanation for the three charts you've shown us, the three smiley faces on the economy, and, yet, national polls

indicate that people are upset about the economy. they're worried about the economy. yet, if you ask individual people, one by one that you encounter at a grocery store or wherever, "how are you doing," they say, "hey, i'm doing okay." why the disparity between the national number on people worried about the economy and a lot of people, individuals, who say, "hey, i'm doing fine" >> great question, mike. it's one that, certainly, politicians and economists have been thinking about. i don't have a great answer for ya i think the best i can say is that there's a lag effect. we've had a tough economy for a long time, including during covid, that people still aren't feeling economically secure, feeling like they're in good shape. even though people at the bottom are doing better, as i said, you're still talking about people earning $35,000 or less not a lot of money in an economy that's just been through a really tough inflationary period that's the challenge for incumbent politicians, to convince the voters that they're actually on the case and trying

to make things better. >> steve rattner with his charts, breaking down the numbers for us thanks so much eugene daniels, let's talk about the incumbent politician, joe biden. he looks at these numbers and says, "okay, inflation probably moving in the right direction. black unemployment is at a record low we're doing a little better with income inequality based on the numbers, yet i'm still underwater on the approval rating." how do they change the narrative around the economy steve was just talking about >> i mean, one, they have been talking about how much they're been focusing on black unemployment rates, how much they have been hoping to deal with income inequality in this country. that is something you're going to hear to hear them talk about. they're going to keep saying that has been a focus of theirs. they're celebrating those numbers. they talked about how the president has continuously worked from the middle-up and

bottom middle out. they're going to continue to work on these things when it comes to the economy inflation is cooling because we're doing everything right at the same time, like you talked about, they're not seeing the same numbers in polling, right? americans still feel like things aren't going well in the economy. part of that is just, historically, people in this country see republicans as better on the economy, whether or not the facts actually bear out that actual case that's been something they've been having to deal with also, there's so many other issues that are going on in this country, that people just feel del beleaguered, right this country feels under siege because of all the things we've been talking about today, abortion, gun rights, more mass shootings, an economy that's giving confusing information to folks. that doesn't seem like it is going to stop. but this administration feels like they have a handle on the economy. that could change, right there was a time where we weren't even talking about inflation. i remember, you know, the white house kind of laughing at us for

asking whether or not they really believe that inflation was going to be transitory, if it was going to bedealing with a long time. they're cautious to say, "this is something we're dealing with, working on," but they're celebrating the little wins. you kind of have to whelm n youe in a white house. >> maybe a message the president can take with him on the campaign trail eugene daniels, thank you for your reporting appreciate it. coming up, migrant children working at slaughter houses in the midwest. nbc's julia ainsley has been following that story, and she joins us next. also ahead, senator chris murphy of connecticut will be our guest. we'll talk to him about the future of gun reform following the latest deadly mass shooting in america "morning joe" is coming right back mass general brigham -- when you need some of the brightest minds in medicine. this is a leading healthcare system

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two months ago, an investigation discovered more than 100 migrant children sleeping midwestern slaughter houses as a result, their employer was fined and agreed to stop employing children nbc news spoke with one 16-year-old who says he still is cleaning that kansas slaughter house months later joining us now, homeland security correspondent who has broken so much news on this important story, julia ainsley good morning what else did you find here? >> reporter: well, willie, as you know, it is a problem that officials, federal officials, suspect is industry wide we know dhs is looking into multiple companies across the country where they believe some children may have been brought to the united states as part of a human trafficking scheme to work here. what we haven't seen until this point is an individual who is brave enough to speak to us about their experience we met a 16-year-old boy working in kansas, who was still working

for this company and was willing to share his story i will warn you, some of the images we are about to show you could be disturbing to some viewers. >> re in a small kansas town, an undocumented 16-year-old we're calling pedro to protect his ide identity is heading to work to clean a slaughter house overnight. the hazardous work illegal for anyone under 18. this is the slaughter house floor after it was scrubbed down this is what it looked like when workers arrived before their overnight shift. what was work like last night? >> translator: well, it was very tough. >> reporter: what to you clean >> translator: where they kill the cows i have to clean all the blood of the cows until i finish, and i have to leave my area clean. >> reporter: pedro tells us his shift starts around 11:00 p.m. and ends around 6:00 a.m., giving him just enough time to shower and get to high school. pedro says he has been working there since he was 15, up to

seven days a week. did you have trouble staying awake and learning >> translator: yes, it takes its toll it's very tiring also because of the sleepiness >> reporter: pedro works for packer san sagitation services , pssi they settled with the labor department after investigators uncovered 100 children working illegally. pssi pledged it'd no longer hire children and paid a $1.5 million fine, a tiny fraction of its revenues nationwide, children were fired at multiple pssi locations, according to some economy employees. but pedro is still on the job. a dangerous job. like other child workers, he told us he'd been severely burned from powerful cleaning chemicals. i noticed you were coughing. is that from the cremehemicals

>> translator: yes, it's because the chemicals are strong >> reporter: pedro says he fled poverty in dwguam guatemala. he relied on a smuggler to bring him here he sends almost all his salary to his parents 2,000 miles away. >> translator: they have a lot of people here who spend the money as they please, and we earn the money the hard way. >> reporter: pssi would not grant an interview but has said it uses the government's e-verify system to confirm employees' work eligibility, and suggests responsibility lies with underage employees that deceive the company about their age. pedro told us he used fake papers that say he is an adult too to get the job. >> thee kids are living in fear. these kids will do anything. >> reporter: this pastor knows of a dozen children, mainly guatemalans, who were told by

their smugglers that they had no choice but to clean slaughter houses at night. >> you wish you could take them all in and figure out a way to let them live their age. let them enjoy what other kids their age are enjoying here in the united states. >> reporter: because they weren't allowed to be? >> that was robbed from them. >> reporter: when you work in the slaughter house? >> yes, you have to act like an adult. if you mess up, you get treated like an adult. which none of these kids have the maturity to handle that emotional stress >> reporter: meanwhile, with the money pedro earns, he continues to pay off his $2,500 debt to that smuggler. >> translator: we have only enough for our food and the rent only that. >> reporter: like many child migrants, he lives with a relative that charges him rent we asked him what he misses most >> translator: i am alone. i miss my parents, my family >> now, pssi has asked nbc news

for pedro's real name, saying they'd fire him immediately for working underage we're withholding his identity because we want him to be able to speak freely without the fear of losing his job he says he needs. pssi said they'd redouble efforts to identify him. >> julia, how does he pass over 18 i'm assuming now that pssi knows it is under scrutiny, it is on the lookout for underage employees, does he look much older than his 16 years? how does he do it? >> it's interesting. i mean, before this investigation, before the labor department finished their investigation, former employees said pssi was looking the other way. it was a well-known secret there that there were children as young as 13 works there. after that, after they've become so much under public scrutiny, we understand now that, basically, pedro is able to get an id that says that he is of

age. in fact, what happens often, employees at places like this aren't just proving they're of age, they are proving that they are able to work here. many of them are undocumented immigrants in fact, they often use ids that have been stolen by hispanic-americans who were living here in the united states a lot of the hispanic-americans have had trouble getting their identities back. in fact, some of them have seen our reporting and now they realize it is not just an inconvenience for them to have their identity stolen, it could be their identity has been used to help an underage child be exploited and work some of them have come forward and we're sharing more of that tonight on nbc "nightly news." >> julia, first of all, thank you for this excellent report. secondly, pedro is not the only one. i assume there are several other people underage, boys and girls working. pssi paid a $1.5 million fine. that was it? no criminal exposure, just a

$1.5 million fine? >> and i will say, we don't have evidence of other children working there, but, certainly, could be a possibility we don't have evidence one way or the other we just have this one child that's come forward at this point. that's right, a $1.5 million fine that's based on the statutes that's the maximum the labor department could fine them based on the fact they found over 100 children working in the facilities yes, there could be more penalties to come. a lot of people have raised questions. a lot of times in these investigations, the real people who suffer here are the children the children who are having to work these jobs to pay the person they're living with, to pay the smuggler that brought them here, to send money back to desperate parents in guatemala it's a whole system, not just the companies. it's the u.s. government that lets these children go to sponsors who really can't take care of them because they're in a pitch to try to get them out of the care of health and human services it could also be the fault of federal investigators who let

this go. child labor is on the rise on top of that, legislatures are reducing the penalties for child labor, who are trying to make it easier for children to go to work you have a number of systems here coming together that really aren't serving these children and are, instead, allowing companies to basically get by with less punishment than some people think would be necessary. >> just a reminder of the extreme lengths people go to just to be in this country and, as you say, get money back to their families and take care of them i know your reporting is putting pressure on people who can do something about this julia ainsley, thanks so much for your reporting we appreciate it. still ahead, nine days after donald trump was arraigned on criminal charges, the former president back in new york city this morning to sit for a deposition in another lawsuit against him. we'll get a live report from lower manhattan. plus, what might have been the best free throw defense in nba history from a 9-year-old sitting courtside at last night's eastern conference play-in game, who had a very

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pelicans out of time-outs. plen tty of time to get a pass d shot off looking, oh, and he throws it away. >> oh, no. oh, no only down three, and the pelicans throw away their playoff hopes with an errant pass in the final seconds. new orleans eliminated from the western conference play-in tournament in a 123-118 loss to oklahoma city. thunder move on to minnesota to play the timberwolves tomorrow night for the right to enter the nba playoffs as an eight seed. the eastern conference, zach lavine rallied the bulls back from a 19-point deficit in the d do-or-die game in the win over the toronto raptors. but it was the daughter, the young daughter of bulls forward, demar derozan, who may have helped to tip the scale in favor

of her dad's team. watch this >> that is the daughter of demar derozan. here's the voice you're hearing when raptors shoot she's screaming. that time, it didn't work. [ laughter ] >> it's the thought that counts. trying to help daddy out. >> it'smaking a difference, screaming at the top of her lungs at every raptors free throw the raptors on the night, 18 for 36 from the line they shot 50% because of demar derozan's daughter she put them into the playoffs derozan said after the game, he was glad he let the 9-year-old skip a day of school to watch the bulls play adding, quote, i owe her some money for sure she's not expected to be there tomorrow night in miami, where the bulls will play the heat for a chance to make the playoffs, which, frankly, seems like a mistake. give her another day off

sam stein, before we let you go, a story we'll be talking about later in the show, but fascinating. up in the united states senate, diane feinstein, the 89-year-old senator from california who has been away now, hasn't cast a vote in two months she has a very important seat on the judiciary committee. yesterday, for the first time, a democrat, one of her colleagues, ro khanna, the congressman from california, calling for her to resign all together. where is this headed >> well, it is a delicate situation, to say the least. we reported yesterday there's real concerns mounting among democrats that feinstein will not get back to washington, d.c. she's been out for many weeks now with shingles. there's a backlog of nominees in the judiciary committee where she has a seat her office has put out a statement saying she's asked senator schumer for a temporary reprieve from serving on the judiciary committee, having someone temporarily replace her. that requires the consent of

either all the senators or 60 votes. it's to be determined whether they can even get that as you note, when you have a lawmaker like ro khanna and another, dean phillips, another democrat, calming for her resignation, it underscores the frustrations democrats have over the situation. on the flip side, we have two lawmakers, democrats again, who have said this is unfair to her, to call for her resignation, and that they would not do this if she were a male lawmaker we're seeing tensions mount here. >> this is coming to a head because there is a long list of judges the biden administration is trying to get approved and up on the bench. >> exactly. >> they can't get the votes without diane feinstein in the se senate sam stein, thank you so much see you tomorrow. >> thanks. >> what time you setting the alarm for "way too early"? >> i'm wondering if i'm doing it wrong, but i'm going 3:20. is that too early? should i push it and try to -- >> go 3:45 sleep? >> every minute counts at that

moment, you know >> it does. >> you have to get in the minutes. >> don't we know it. take a nap we'll see you tomorrow on "way too early. coming up, the latest legal drama between donald trump and his former attorney, michael cohen. plus, we'll tell do you what was inside another threatening letter sent to manhattan district attorney alvin bragg. that's straight ahead on "morning joe."

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picture of the white house at 7:00 in the morning. a lovely thursday morning in april. welcome back to "morning joe." i'm willie geist coming up this hour, we're learning more about frantic efforts to warn authorities about the gunman in monday's deadly mass shooting in louisville, including a 911 call from his own mother. plus, donald trump returns to new york for his second deposition in a $250 million civil fraud case this is a different one from last week, if you can keep up. we'll get you caught up on the legal issue, the latest one, for the former president. plus, a live report from ukraine on one of the longest battles in that war. katty kay, mike barnicle still with us. joining the conversation, former a aide to the george w. bush white house, elise jordan. "on brand with donny deutsch," our buddy, donny deutsch boo we start this hour with the calls that flooded dispatcher as the deadly mass shooting

unfolded at a bank in louisville on monday. nbc news correspondent morgan chesky has the latest. >> oh, my god, there is an active shooter there oh, my god. >> reporter: frantic calls for help amid a gunman's shooting spree. new audio capturing the first call of many. >> how do you know you have an active shooter on the site >> i just watched it. >> reporter: a video conference call giving a bank employee across town a terrifying view as the gunman opened fire those inside old national bank calling seconds later, giving police crucial details >> eight or nine people have been shot? >> uh-huh. >> are you with any of them? >> yes i'm in a closet hiding >> reporter: as the gunman opened fire on police in agonizing wait >> is that shots fired >> yes >> just stay quiet. >> reporter: then a call from a woman identifying herself as the shooter's mother. >> this is his mother. i'm so sorry i'm getting details secondhand i'm running to him now oh, my lord. >> reporter: who heard from her son's roommate something is

wrong. >> he's nonviolent he's never done anything please >> okay. and you don't believe he owns guns >> i know he doesn't own any guns >> reporter: his mother unaware he purchased a rifle just six days earlier the family telling nbc news, no words can express our sorrow, anguish, and horror at the unthinkable harm our son, connor, inflicted on innocent people adding, he had mental health challenges, but there were never warning signs or indications he was capable of this shocking act. in seven minutes, nine were injured and five lives were lost memories of the victims flooding in including 40-year-old joshua barrick, a husband and father of two. >> last thing he said, i'll do whatever you need me to do that's the type of guy he was. >> reporter: a community ripped apart by violence, coming together to heal. >> nbc's morgan chesky reporting there. joining us now, democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut. a member of the foreign relations committee. senator, good morning. it's good to have you back with

us let's talk about nashville and louisville and everything we've seen over the last couple of weeks and the energy we've seen around gun safety, including, by the way, from the republican governor of tennessee, billie, w bill lee, who talked about strengthening red flag laws. not everything everyone want, but perhaps a step toward preventing these horrible tragedies we see several times a week at this point in this country. >> of course, willie, as you know, it is important to remember that while the country gets captured of stories by the mass shootings, every single day, there is over 100 people dying from gun violence. many of those are suicides, homicides, accidental shootings. every single day, there is mass slaughter in this country, and it doesn't happen anywhere else in the high-income world, besides the united states. but i think you are right. we are seeing a paradigm shift it began last summer when, after uvalde, congress passed the first gun safety measure of any significance in 30 years

even though the nra opposed the legislation and it continues now this spring, as you see a very conservative republican governor, bill lee, proposing the legislature pass a red flag law, again, a measure the nra doesn't like red flag laws are not insignificant. they work. in florida, they passed their red flag law shortly after parkland they've used it 6,000 times to take guns away from people who were threatening harm against others or threatening harm against themselves so it's good news that you see republicans like bill lee stepping up and saying, it's time for us to do something. i think you're going to have more and more states, red states and blue states, acting for one reason and one reason only voters are not going to allow politicians to stand by and do nothing. what you saw in tennessee with this overwhelming show of support from kids and parents to back up those tennessee lawmakers to demand change, that's happening all over the

country. there will be more action at the federal level. there will be increasing pace of action at the state level. it's not all going to happen at once, but we've reached a point where nothing is not an option. >> you used the term paradigm shift, senator doesn't feel that way in this moment, but americans say, yeah, it felt that way after sandy hook the terrible tragedy in your state in december 2012 it's felt that way many times before we should say, as you pointed out, there was bipartisan legislation in the united states congress republicans and democrats getting together last summer after uvalde to change the laws. again, it wasn't perfect it wasn't everything you wanted, but it was progress toward gun safety why do you feel like this is a paradigm shift right now >> well, because it takes a long time to build a political movement after sandy hook, the nra was ready. they were the most powerful political organization in the country. the anti-gun violence movement effectively didn't exist you can't build that overnight

for the last ten years, between moms demand action and march for our lives and giffords and brady and all the other groups that work in the space, we have more volunteers, more activists, more resources than the gun lobby does and so after uvalde, you saw republicans in the senate just make a decision, that they were more likely to win the upcoming election if they voted for gun safety measures. that's a different decision than they would have made just three or four years aes earlier. i think you're seeing that same decision being made in places like nashville political power doesn't change overnight. i wish it did. i wish sandy hook changed everything but you need to build it we've built an infrastructure around anti-gun violence muz s measures that significant and powerful. >> at some point, even politicians have to listen to children saying, "please help us so we're not shot in our schools. listen to police officers who say, "please help us so we don't have to run into the gun battles you see on a battlefield

somewhere overseas." at some point, those voices penetrate. at some point, it's a bipartisan question, "please, keep our kids safe in our schools. >> senator murphy, donny deutsch. i want to pick up on what willie said, as far as some point i want you to profsay, ten year give me hope, if we take a step with the red flag laws, there's so far to go with the changing demographics in the country, where do you see where we are, state of affairs as far as laws ten years from now? >> it's a great question, and i absolutely have hope i do this this is, you know, a great social change movement in the tradition of the civil rights movement, in the tradition of the marriage equality movement. i think we are going to get there. ten years from now, i think we will absolutely have universal background checks in this country. i buy a gun, will have to prove they're not a criminal or

someone who is mental ill. though it doesn't get talked as much, it's probably the most impactful because that's what stops the illegal trade of these guns that happens in our cities, that drives the homicide rate up i think ten years from now, we will not be selling assault weapons to civilians in this country. i do believe that the american public decided they don't want these sold commercially. that won't erase assault weapons from our nation, because i don't think anybody is going to be talking about taking assault weapons from people that already have them, but in this case, you saw in kentucky, as you saw in uvalde, often, shooters buy the weapons shortly before the crime. even if you don't take all the weapons that are already out there off the streets, just stopping new purchases certainly cuts down on the carnage i think those are two changes that, within the next decade, you are going to see i just think, as you mentioned, you're seeing the public demand it it's becoming increasingly

bipartisan, that demand. >> there's a young generation that has lived with this for its entire life and wants to make some change. senator, i want to ask about another story. the sensitive information leaked to the pentagon. according to "the washington post," the person behind a leak is a young, charismatic gun enthusiast who shared documents with far-flung acquaintances, searching for companionship amid the isolation of the pandemic. it was shared on discord nbc news has not independently verified "the post's" reporting, whose main source is a minor granted granted anonymity. they reviewed classified document, most of which have not been made public mean meanwhile, we're learning how the information leaked may or may not affect the war in ukraine. the u.s. views the leaks as grave, key information about the war may still be safe. as the "assoc"the associated pr"

reports, only some ukrainians know the operations, not the americans, their most important ally the leak of military documents, including some assessing ukraine's battlefield strength and weakness against russia, may not have enough so far to change the course of the war. elise, you worked in national security how damaging is what we've seen already? >> these leaks seem more damaging than previous leaks that have happened, like wikileaks, really embarrassing to the u.s. government, but not anything that was that top secret then edward snowden revealed a program as a whistleblower that he was outraged by, the nsa. these leaks, though, it's concerning that they were shared with foreign nationals we have no sense of the scope of how it was shared, and it was direct movements of high-ranking political leaders. i want to ask senator murphy, when did you become aware, from

your seat on the senate foreign relations committee, of these leaks, and how do i coyou assese damage of the leaks? >> well, you know, i learned about it when everybody else learned about it as you know, we've been away from washington the last two weeks, so we haven't been briefed in person. but, as you point out, you know, thisstands in context. secrets don't seem to remain secret for very long given that all of this information now exists in forms that can be, you know, downloaded onto a zip drive and spirited away from sensitive and secure buildings, i think it implicates the entire way we share information inside the government i think everybody that's writing memos about sensitive and classified information have to assume that, at some point, that information is going to become public you know, to me, this is going

to require a major shift in the way that our intelligence agencies and our national security agencies talk i think it's likely that a lot less is going to be able to be put down on paper, to be sent in emails there's going to have to be a lot more that's done person-to-person because we're having a hard time controlling all this information, and people who want to damage the united states are finding that it is not that hard to get this information, leak it, and put our national security officials in a really difficult position this is embarrassing it's bad, but we've got to change practice at some point. >> senator, before we let you go, can i ask you about another frontier in the cultural and political battles taking place in the u.s it is interesting to hear your cautious optimism around guns. i wonder what you're thinking on the issue of abortion, with the latest legal wranglings over mifepristone it is one thing when outsiders look at this country the two things they keep mentioning are guns and

abortion, in terms of dysfunctionalty in america you sound like you are cautiously optimistic about the trajectory of guns in the longer run. on abortion, where do you see that heading, this fight >> i'm similarly optimistic. that doesn't erase the heartache as to what is happening right now, as millions of women and families across the country have their reproductive health kcarefree d freedom eras. we're close to having the votes in the senate to codify roh ver sauc ver -- roe versus wade you'll soon have a majority in the senate and the house that are going to, at the least, codify roh vere versus wade. the republicans realized their agenda, especially on the social issues, is wildly unpopular. they cannot get the nra agenda and the anti-choice agenda

passed through majoritarian legislative bodies instead, they are packing the courts with radical, right-wing jurists who will implement their agenda through the court system. so we are going to have to be just as vigilant about reversing that trend, getting fair-minded judges on the courts, as we are about changing the laws like codifying roe versus wade. >> senator, as you know, your democrat colleague in the senate diane feinstein has been out for two months with a medical issue. she's back home at a hospital. she has, as you know, and we've heard private rumbling from the white house, her absence has held up the passing of a number of judges to the bench some democrats called for the senator to resign. do you agree with them >> i don't i think it is interesting that,

you know, there have been male senators who have been away from the chamber for quite a period of time and haven't necessarily had, you know, this call for resignation. mitch mcconnell, for instance, has been out of the senate for a few months now i think that there are, you know, likely people who would like to see senator feinstein resign so that either, you know, they or their favorite kand candidates can be appointed to that seat. i think diane is a legend and has changed this country for the better she made the right decision to ask for temporary removal while she recovers from the judiciary committee, but i think she deserves to have a little time to recover from this injury and illness, to be able to get back to the senate. no, i don't love, you know, members of the house of representatives telling her what she should do and the terms upon which she should end her public

service. plenty of members of the senate have been sick, gotten ill, and have been given time to recover. >> her office has given no timetable for the return in the interim, should some other step be taken so democrats can get these judges confirmed >> well, i think the step that she's taken is probably the right one, which is, to ask for a temporary removal from the judiciary committee. again, if you look at the senate over the past two mon smonths, s not like we've had 99 senators it's normally 96, 97, 98 a number of senators have been away from the chamber for a variety of reasons i just want the same standard applied to everyone. >> senator chris murphy of connecticut covering a lot of ground this morning for us, as he always does thank you for your time. we appreciate it. >> thank you. the office of manhattan district attorney alvin bragg was sent another threatening letter that contained white powder it was yesterday according to two law enforcement officials. talking to nbc, the envelope

addressed to bragg contained a note cursing him, a photo of donald trump, and the white powder the nypd was called to the mail room of the d.a.'s office and later determined it was not hazardous. this was at least the second threatening letter sent to the d.a. with white powder last month, bragg's office received a note reading, "i'm going to kill you. that's a quote the powder in the note also not deemed hazardous at the time, law enforcement said bragg esieve received hund threats and several were being taken seriously. since news of the indictment broke, the former president repeatedly targeted bragg by name on his social media platform. meanwhile, donald trump is back in new york city jt one w was criminally charged here. today, he will sit for a deposition in the $250 million civil fraud case filed last year by new york attorney general letitia james. the suit alleges for more than a decade, trump, his oldest children and other members of his business organization

inflated the value of the former president's real estate portfolio as a way to get benefit like better bank loans and reduce taxes james' office is looking to recover $250 million and to bar the trump family from running any company in new york state. today's deposition, which first was reported by abc news, will be the second time trump has sat for questioning in this case during the first last august, the former president reportedly asserted his fifth amendment right and refused to answer questions more than 400 times. let's bring in nbc news correspondent rehema ellis she is outside the new york attorney general's office in manhattan. rehema, good morning. >> reporter: good morning, willie it'll be interesting to see what happens here today i should tell you that there is nowhere near the kind of media attention here out on the street this morning as it was last week when he went before the court to answer the charges by the

district attorney, manhattan district attorney bragg. whether or not the former president will have anything to say is yet to be determined. as you point out, when he was here in august, he said very little, except he asserted his legal right. that is to take the fifth more than 400 times will he do that today? we don't know. there's also -- there are no television cameras up in that room we might get some information about what will happen later on, perhaps today or in the days to come but we will have to wait to see if his attorney or if letitia james comes out and she says anything about what happens. we should mention to you also that there was a trial that's expected in this particular case that would begin in october if everything goes according to the plan of the new york state attorney general, letitia james. >> rehema ellis outside the courthouse in new york city, thank you so much. donny, it's a measure of donald trump's legal problems, that you walk up fifth avenue and all the

security is in place what is this one for this is a different case than he was here for being arraigned last week. >> i'm bored >> right now or in general >> we'll talk about that during the break. i have issues that need to be dealt with it's interesting that rehema was saying no one was there. security was there mike, you and i were talking, i drove down fifth avenue and the trucks were there, protecting. it's gotten so boring. we indicted a u.s. president for the first time in our history just ten days ago, whatever the day was, and you hear this new charge you start to blank over. it's just -- he's gotten to be -- as the indictments, and they'll continue to add up we'll see obstruction of justice, probably georgia. i'm hearing this from more and more people, they want -- not the 20%, not his base, not what we see in the polls there, but the overall general populous has

had enough this latest chapter seems to be enough already i can't look at this guy anymore. i don't want to see this guy anymore. there is a saturation point. you thought we would have hit it years ago. something feels a little different this time, just even as monumental as a news moment. >> i don't disagree with you there is all of that you're right but the weight of all of this on him, on trump personally, despite his bravado, despite the way he displays himself in public, he's carrying that weight it's got to have an impact on him at some level. he's been indicted you know, here in new york city once he is appearing in new york city again this morning he's got jack smith and the federal prosecutors looking at him on the obstruction of justice and a bunch of other things he's got the georgia case, as you mentioned. i don't care who he is, how he behaves, how outrageously he

behaves. the weight of all of that, carrying that every day, has got to have an impact on him. >> trump himself has not been hyping this case, which i think is interesting because he definitely doesn't want to pay $250 million i also think that the idea of paying your fair share of taxes, that's more politically resonant than everyone who is completely sick of stormy daniels and court of public opinion already decided that one in contrast, i think that this case is a little bit more interesting. >> maybe, donny, some of these do blend together and she says it's all a witch hunt, the new york stuff one you get to georgia, there's a recorded phone call of him trying to flip the votes, once you get to january 6th, everyone knows the details of it, the mar-a-lago documents, it gets more serious as we go here. >> i think somebody used the word "if power rankings" on thi show, as far as the indictments. a broader perspective, how silly

and dumb the republicans are, trump lost last time at this point, he is the favorite to be the candidate now, he is going to run with the weight of the indictments, the weight of january 6th on him they are putting forward and still putting their eggs behind what seems to be an unelicectab candidate. how silly and foolish are the republicans? >> 25% favorability. >> it's fair to say he is unelectable. >> i would not say that at all joe biden, his health, if his health takes a turn for the worse. trump's health the same way. i would not underestimate donald trump. i think it is a grave mistake for democrats to do so. >> i wrote a book once called "often wrong, never in doubt." >> we learned never to count donald trump out of any election by the way, he sued michael cohen yesterday for half a billion dollars. >> i spoke to michael last night. it is interesting. michael, everybody talks to michael and says, you know, "mike, keep going, keep up the good fight."

this is just more and more lawyer fees for him this poor guy served his time already, but he's still in prison interestingly enough, he was saying, i was subpoenaed in this case isn't this kind of witness intimidation, basically? i didn't knock on the d.a.'s door and say, "i want to do this." all he is doing is testifying, giving them the information they're asking for what does he have? half a billion. >> does he have money? >> it is a challenging time for mike also, when you get arrested and you're a felon, it is hard to borrow money from a bank it is hard to do business. it is not like you -- and i'm not saying boo-hoo for michael cohen, but the reality is, when you are a convicted felon in this country, the jail time does not stop after sa 15 months or whatever it is he has a lot of handcuffs on right now. >> he brought documentation for everything around the stormy daniels case, it was not just his word it was documents. ahead, we'll get an update on ukraine on one of the longest

running and most lethal battles of the war there. nashville, the second of two lawmakers will be sworn back into the statehouse this morning a week after they were expelled over the gun violence protests there. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. heading on a family trip? nah, sorry son, prices are crazy, [son deflates]

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whether or not russia had taken the eastern city of bakhmut. just yesterday, we heard from russian mercenaries. they said they have taken 80% of that city. that's a claim that was immediately denied by kyiv but, you know, willie, regardless of who you believe here, it is looking increasingly clear, that russia is now within striking distance of finally taking bakhmut this city that has been the focus of some of the worst fighting of the entire war now, the question for both sides becomes, is bakhmut worth it this is just a drill these soldiers have been to hell and back they know to take this seriously. these men already fought in bakhmut, and they're headed back first, they're training again. that's what it takes to break the stalemate. bakhmut in eastern ukraine has become the lethal crucible of the war. the battle has raged for more than eight months and ground up men and material on both sides this is an accelerated training course, because these men are needed immediately on the front line >> translator: yes, we have a very, very short time, and

that's why we are training them in this accelerated course first individually and then as groups >> reporter: yet, many in the west see bakhmut as more symbolic than strategic. a kind of arbitrary alamo, a random place where both sides are making a decisive stand. for ukraine's top leadership, bakhmut may be just a symbol, but it's a strong one. >> translator: if we begin to lose territory town by town, it will be a huge morale boost for the russians and massive demoralization for ukraine >> reporter: in the same place, wearing down their opponents in a battle of attrition. is ukraine, like the russians, guilty of sending untrained troops to the front like, almost as cannon fodder >> translator: at the beginning of this war, yes almost all of those who were fighting were experienced servicemen who got their training over several years. but you have to understand that this is a bloody war

trag tragically, people are dying ukrainians are dying people on the front lines are exhausted. therefore, we have to rotate them. >> reporter: the idea is to pin down their enemy to prevent att attacks elsewhere, while preparing for a new offensive armed with western weapons in public, the pentagon audiotape portsupports an offensive. >> they can be successful whenever they choose to take up operations. >> reporter: new leaks reveal private spectacle that the new offensive won't gain much ground in the meantime, holding ground means hemorrhaging men for those soldiers who stay strong in ukraine's east, the are wards are modest maybe a kindmartyrdom. this video went viral earlier this year. he declares glory to ukraine just before he is murdered in captiv captivity. >> translator: we have no other option but to continue fighting.

all this blood that was lost cannot be lost in vain we need to continue defending ourselves. >> reporter: this is the faith that holds ukraine's front lines. if this war is larger than one life, then no single life can be lost in vain >> translator: i had only one son, and i lost him. but, now, i have gained many sons all of his fellow soldiers are my sons now. >> reporter: as in any war, the mothers of ukraine don't question the wisdom of the generals that, in many cases, are sending their sons to their deaths but, as you just saw, these mothers have to believe the battles like bakhmut are not being waged in vain. guys >> matt, i mean, it's so tragic to hear the stories, particularly of the mothers, of course, and the heartache they're going through. despite the effort, despite the 23 faith and determination, there is this reporting from these leaked pentagon documents that,

actually, ukraine may not be able to make much headway during the course of this year. i was wondering what the reaction there in ukraine has been not so much the initial reaction we heard about that. but the reaction from people you talk to about the leaked documents and the pessimism of ukraine's chances, frankly, this year >> reporter: well, i think a lot of people here, when you speak to them, you know, they believe in ukraine they have to because the fact of the matter is, up until now, ukraine has done what everybody said they wouldn't be able to do, including people like me they'd faith they'd crumble in the face of the incredible force of this russian invasion instead, they've seen their armies being victorious. they haven't seen russia make any great gains. bakhmut sa great example even if bakhmut eventually does fall to the russians, if they take the city, then that's still such a modest achievement. a lot of ukrainians are going to say it is a puric victory for the russians and the ukrainians still have the capability to launch this offensive.

we keep hearing again and again, katty, from people on the ground all the way up through the halls of power, that the decisive thing that the ukrainians have that the russians don't is morale they believe in their cause. also, western weapons. they believe that the western weapons keep flowing, these sophisticated arms, they can finally prevail against the russians guys >> nbc's matt bradley in kyiv with a great look inside the war. thanks so much we appreciate it. up next, it has been almost three years since broadway star nick cordero died from covid complications. his widow has been keeping his memory alive her latest project is a children's book inspired by her life with their son. amanda joins us next on "morning joe. we're always working on a project. while loading up our suv, one extra push and... crack! so, we scheduled at safelite.com. we were able to track our technician and knew exactly when he'd arrive. we can keep working! ♪ synth music ♪

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jersey walk the boardwalk. the world is trying to move on from the covid pandemic, but it is difficult for people who lost loved ones to the virus nick cordero died of complications in july 2020, leaving behind his wife and their young son, ellis amanda is helping keep her late husband's memory alive by a children's book, "tell me your dreams," inspired by her bedtime rituals with their son best selling author and co-host of "the talk," amanda, so great to see see. >> thank you for having me nice to be here. >> congratulations on the book >> thank you. >> i love the genesis of the sto story, which is you and your son, elvis, sitting in a rocking chair, and you thinking, let's talk about our dreams. >> yeah, it is amazing i think our children just inspire us always. this was truly inspired by elvis. i really should have included him as a co-author when he has --

>> he wants royalties. >> he has a line in this book that is exactly what he said to me while we'd do this every night. we still do. he participates, and i say, want me to tell you your dreams he says, yes it is really sweet it's a nice ritual we do. >> we all around the table have kids, and those are special moments of parenting maybe it's the middle of the night, just you and your child what dreams do you guys talk about? >> well, elvis loves trash trucks, airplanes and choo-choos, like any other 2-year-olds. he loves to explore. yeah, i just -- i just thought about, you know, creating this adventure for him, that he gets to go on every night i love dreams. i'm a big dreamer, always have been i think there is this world in dreams that exists nowhere else. i wanted him to connect to his father, so i made it all about an adventure that he got to go on with his dad. i wasn't a part of it. in the morning, i'd get him out

of the crib and ask him, "tell me about your dream. where did you go what'd you do? that was our thing we did every night. >> you had many chapters that weren't expected, given what happened in the loss of your husband. i'm so sorry but also inspired by how you've been public with your journey it is a tough thing to talk about. but you ended up -- i really admire you, and i can't imagine doing it, your son was only 9 months old when your husband passed away. so you've raised him as a single mother can you talk about that journey and how it inspired you to do this book and what you've learned about yourself on this i'm sure your strength has to have surprised even yourself. >> oh, yes, yes. you know, i didn't expect to be a single mom, and i have just been thrown into being one i'm a working single mom i have, like, five jobs, and i'm constantly needing help and asking for help. i know that's really hard for a

lot of mempeople to do, to say,i need help. i can't do it myself." i learned that i have to ask for help in order to fill my cup and do everything i need to do, i also have to have help. i think that when you are put in a tough situation, you might be at your weakest point in life, but that's when you find out, like, really who you are really, truly, like, what kind of strength you have i think that's what i found. you know, i can do this. i can raise him on my own. and i can include nick in everything we do i do that because i want him to have memories of his dad, you know i think especially with this book, it can be a tool for any parent, you know the pandemic caused a lot of loss grandparents, friends, siblings, parents, and this can be a way for any particent to talk to thr children about loss. this person isn't on earth, but let's adventure with them in their dreams, you know

>> amanda, first of all, congratulations on your story. you are incredibly inspiring not everybody has the ability to write a book for a lot of different reasons. someone who suffered the loss you have, as somebody who has gone through it, there's no playbook, oobvious, and everybod is very, very different. from what your soul do you say to people. >> i would say to people that i would try to find a community. what i've learned is that grief can eat you up inside. you feel like no one understands the pain you feel so lonely you feel like i'm never going to get through this then if you start opening up and, you know, meeting other people, through either, you know, different, you know, our house, grief centers, community people that all go to this place to kind of revel in their grief, you talk to people and they have stories. you realize, oh, i'm not alone this person understands my pain. oh, you have the same pain oh, my gosh, let's talk about our pain then you leave, and you don't

feel like alone in this world, no one understands me. you feel like you have this community. once you have a community, you can do so much you can get through so much. because you're not all alone it really makes a difference >> amanda, i'm sure you know that memory is both a gift and a burden especially to a little boy who never really knew his father when you ask him, "what'd you dream about, did you dream about dad," what does he tell you? >> a lot of times, he'll recount what i've told him the night before which i give him points for remembering. but, you know, right now, he's really into kind of exploring what he has of nick's. the other night, he was saying, you know -- i said, "you have my nose." he goes, "but i have dada's eyes." i go, "you do. then i said, "you love music just like dada." he goes, "i do, i love music."

it's creating the moments. he doesn't have memories of nick he was 10 months old when nick went into the hospital i think it is just about now creating those memories for him. as he gets older, you know, we'll see. i haven't gone down that road yet. this is a learning curve, you know, and we're just learning as we go. >> so many people have watched you over the last several years with such admiration for your strength and the job you've done and your career and working with our buddy natalie morales and everybody else on "the talk. >> yes. >> you're very busy. congratulations on the book. >> thank you very much. >> it is called "tell me your dreams" by amanda klootz with an assist from young elvis. >> yes. >> his agent called and wants the royalties. thanks, amanda good to see you. >> thank you very much. up next, trymaine lee brings the story of three lawmakers who call themselves a bipartisan brand of brothers. they say the bond goes beyond politics that story just ahead on "morning joe."

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this week the current session of congress hits the 100-day mark and while most see deep divisions three freshman repr representatives are trying to prove otherwise. they are friends and graduates of the west point class of 2004. >> reporter: more than 20 years and you think back to the young men you were, how much different from these guys? >> exact same. >> reporter: freshman representatives of new york, michigan and texas are on different sides of the political aisle. ryan is a democrat while james and hunt are republican but the

three men say they share a connection that goes far beyond politics for four years they were west point classmates, brothers in arms, graduating in 2004 they proudly served the nation. does it feel like you are family >> any time you go through the four-year intense kind of crazy experience you form a bond. >> we all wore the red, white and blue the goal was to graduate. >> and beat nave vi. >> reporter: young cadets when the planes struck the world trade center they say 9/11 pushed them to a call of service. >> there was a cloud over us this was not a training process. we will fight a war for our country. >> reporter: today they say it is the shared experiences that help them recognize the time to reach across the aisle.

>> sometimes we get a funny look when we go to the other side and people are like you guys are actually talking yeah we were roommates across the hall. >> we had a class photo and put it on the cover of "politico." we have a bond. >> trust is shot in this country. we come here with the trust baked in we don't always agree. but i know they will never deliberately hurt me. >> reporter: they say the hope now is to use the west point bond for good working to enact legislation to help veterans. >> one of my soldiers, i brought him home only to have him take his own life what a failure that is that we couldn't get that right as a country. >> we are beginning to work on veterans mental health issues

and as colleagues across the aisle to make sure that the nation doesn't turn the back when folks come back from overseas. >> reporter: can you imagine that this might be the seeds of bipartisanship >> if we cannot make that work, then shame on us. >> yeah. >> shame on our democracy. that's what we're for. >> will we agree on everything absolutely not yes, we have work to do but the three men here are willing to do the work because i want to see the same progress we have seen in the past generations six generations from now. >> mike, there is an entire generation of post-9/11 veterans getting into politics now. there's bright, young stars. >> those three sitting right there for the first time in a long time on this program or the real world gives you a sense of

hope or optimism for politics in this country they are now in congress carrying the west point code -- honor, loyalty, tale unity whether it is a platoon, a company commander or members of a congress of the united states. for the first time in a long time watching that i feel a bit more optimisting about the future of american politics. >> i felt the same way politicians watch this show. that's what americans want "usa today" did a poll, what is the most important thing you want in your leaders compromise and work with the ore side that is the gold standard. 432 members? >> five. >> 435 get that understand that. that is the gold standard. >> i'm excited as to how the post-9/11 generation of veterans

and professionals who served in iraq, afghanistan, around the globe how they influence foreign policy going forward looking at the aftermath of the wars and the seismic political uprising within the republican party over foreign policy and changed in 2016 with donald trump and interesting to see how the veterans with actual experience steer the policy. >> you are correct with one thing that congressman ryan said specifically bringing someone home after 12 months of combat only to lose that veteran to suicide you bring someone home that's the goal. bring legislation home bring it home. as a unit. as a unit. they get that. i wish more people did. >> let's hope what they have can be spread and the house of representatives and maybe the

senate, too. coming un, the abortion pill fight. also ahead, both lawmakers who were expelled from the tn ten state house for protesting gun violence have been reappointed toer that seats. new developments in the investigation of the handling of classified documents also ahead - >> i want to be like very welcoming. of course, the way this society is, i mean, it was set up as a very strict, like, straight, gay, whatever, vegetarian, whatever you want to -- anything you want to say. i just want it to kind of like bring those walls down and have a party kind of a thing. >> that was a clip from the new documents featuring david

johansen shot through the lens of martin scorsese joe's conversaonti with them is ahead on "morning joe. power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain,

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good morning welcome back to "morning joe." just around the top of the hour on thursday, april 13. we learned a federal appeals court partially blocked a ruling to halt approval of the most widely used abortion pill in the united states. granting the justice department emergency request to put on hold part of a ruling made last week by a u.s. district judge in texas that suspended the

approval of mifepristone the 5th circuit court ruled part of the ruling could go into effect the fda changes made will be suspended including reducing the northbound of in-perhap visits to make from three to one. second the fda's finding in 2021 that the drug can be distributed by mail would be paused. the fifth circuit court divided in the decision 2-1. both appointees of former president trump in the majority. another judge said she would have temporarily blocked the texas' judge's entire ruling they can ask the supreme court to intervene to completely block the original decision by the texas judge. eugene daniels, this is something the white house watched with keen interest as you cover every day.

this is a split decision just came down a few hours ago the abortion pill will be available but with some restrictions called for by the texas judge. >> that's right. i was at the announcement and meeting of the task force where vice president harris, secretaries across the administration there talking about this what they were expecting, giving updates and talking about how much to fight on this. it does seem probable that they might still want to take this to the supreme court because they don't want to be seen as accepting the dismantling of the pill available for 23 years. one thing that's fascinating is hearing an administration that doesn't have a lot of tools to do much about abortion trying to do the things at the same time they took a guidance and turned it into a proposed rule.

that would allow -- have privacy concerns they have and trying to nibble around the edges on the issue because they know that they feel like it's very important, but also, something that we know politically, this is a big part of the midterms and think that republicans and the right have overplayed the hand one thing that's interesting is that we haven't heard from the top republicans on this issue. they're out of town and the presidential candidates that might be there not hearing from them on this or abortion in general. this is something they are watching with glee knowing that they think that republicans feel they don't really know where to go with the issue. >> george, reading the three-judge panel's ruling

overnight is that the statute of limitations is up on this. you can't go back and change that fda approval 23 years later but you can't get it by mail anymore for the time being anyway what do you make of this ruling? >> i think there are a lot of other issues with the decision that are going to come out when the case gets heard on the merits i don't understand on first or second reading that the doctors that do not prescribe the drug have a legal standing to challenge either things that happened in 2000 or happened after 2016 which is what the court of appeals last night allowed -- upheld at least temporarily. i think this lawsuit in the end is going to fail by the

anti-abortion plaintiff doctors. may take a few weeks to get it done but i don't understand it >> katty kay, that's the one decision that was made that i would have voted to block this ruling entirely. this should remain as accessible as it's been for 23 years. >> yeah. they say that from a historical or medical perspective this is a safe drug. approved in other countries and has been for decades and felt pretty confident that they would be able to overrule this case. but i think the bigger issue is that time and again it looks like we will see from the anti-abortion movement attempts to chip away and make an abortion ban federal from a surgical and medical point of view

the fact that they moved this fast despite the politics of this being in democrats' favor and states around the country doing what they can to enshrine abortion right there is's a movement they are not satisfied with the dobbs ruling. they never were. that was just the beginning in their eyes so this is set up still to be a political, legal and medical tussle going forward. >> what is your sense of let's separate the legalese from this particular issue. >> thank goodness. >> at ground level what this means is taking something away from people, specifically women. taking a right away that they have had for decades what is your sense of that impact of a sole loss of a right? >> america prides itself on being a country that expands

peoples' rights, that expands rights of access to those who have not traditionally had power. that's why the dobbs ruling is such a blow not within the united states but not to get 250,000 feet about this but to america's image around the world. here's a rollback of a right and that seemed to go against the perception of what america stands for as i travel around europe the two things that people raise as concerns is guns and abortion. even in catholic countries in europe, ireland which is made progress on rights of access to abortion it is really striking the degree to which america is an outlier compared to western democracies to allow people rights to abortion. >> on the other issue, guns.

tennessee state lawmakers expelled from the legislature last week reappointed to the seats. they were protesting over gun safety laws. blayne alexander has the new developments >> reporter: the vote happened in less than a minute. >> passes. >> reporter: ousted state representative justin pearson is headed back to the seat in the tennessee state house. among the seven members that showed up, a unanimous decision to reinstate pearson whose expungs is a national rallying cry. >> they tried to expel the people's choice and the vote they awakened a sleeping giant >> reporter: last week tennessee's republican led house voted to expel pearson and justin jones after they broke house rules while protesting house rules. >> this is what democracy looks

like. >> reporter: surrounded by hundreds, both lawmakers gathered before marching with supporters to fill the commission chamber what does it say to you that so many people are supporting you >> the future. >> reporter: republicans say it was fair punishment for breaking decorum. critics say it sets a dangerous precedent. a group of senate democrats are calling on the justice department to determine whether that expulsion violated the constitution or federal civil rights >> nbc's blayne alexander reporting for us from tennessee. eugene daniels, you have both justins reinstated to the seats. all three of the tennessee are back where they started inside the house of representatives a democrat said the republicans that made the decision last week might as well as been democrat

inspector general plants for what they gave the party overturning the will of the voters and then come back without realizing to come right back in a few days later giving the energy to the gun rights movement and the democratic party. >> talking to republican political strategists they talk about how much of a misstep thft you make both men national figures. spent days on television across the spectrum talking about this. you get called racist for days and both gentlemen will be right back where they started like you said a political misstep for republicans in tennessee how they handled this. i think you haven't seen national republicans saying about this because they want to stay out of it it isn't a winning issue for

them you have vice president harris going there. it is created a kind of as justin pearson said awaken the sleeping giant in tennessee. doesn't mean there will be gun safety legislation to move forward in the state it is still a very red state but the movement more oomph in it. the three folks that were censured and one woman not voted out they will continue to fight the fight as we continue to have a month or two left in session so republicans misstep here. >> let me add to that we wouldn't know who these people were a council weeks ago if not for the actions of the state republican party they elevated the lawmakers in

ways they never coif imagined and probably grateful for the elevation. the money raised, the attention to the cause of gun violence in tennessee all amplified by the state republican party expelled them from the chamber. i have a question for george as a republican on the panel. is this indicative of modern republican politics, the notion of shoot first, aim later. you move on to the next fight. >> in my defense five years ago i left the republican party. >> fair enough. >> i absolutely agree with what all has been said. it was a stupid, thoughtless reaction to something that angered them i think it's meant to pitch to

the most extreme elements of the republican party this is something -- look. obviously you have to have a decorum in a legislature you want to have peaceful debate, debate where people can hear each other and listen to each other but to expel these legislators, particularly when they are going to get reinstated just was completely and utterly counter productive nobody would have heard about these people but for the fact that they have expelled and expelled two black guys but not the white woman. it is just an amazing, amazing degree of stupidity that we are seeing by republicans in this regard. >> actually the republican governor of tennessee yesterday signed an order to strengthen the background checks. the governor saying we have to

do something to make guns safer and the people to have backgrounds that might do harm we'll come back to the story in a moment federal prosecutors are looking into whether donald trump made false claims about voter fraud after the 2020 election according to "the washington post" citing several sources familiar with the probe. jack smith is investigating. "the post" reports the office sent subpoenas to trump consultants, some reportedly have testified in front of a grand jury and focusing on the money raised between november 2020 and november 2021 generating more than $200 million in donations in the investigation into the

handling of classified documents, federal prosecutors are asking whether trump showed off a map to aides and visitors. four people with knowledge say the map contained sensitive intelligence information but the nature of the map and the information is unclear investigators have been gathering evidence whether trump had aides bring him boxes to sift through george conway, dealer's choice, the first investigation or the mar-a-lago but talking about the january 6 insurrection this is something that the select committee on january 6 looked into, which is the hustle, the shakedown to raise $200 million at least off of trump supporters based on the lie that the election had been stolen. >> right

it was hundreds of millions of dollars that couldn't have used to bring the lawsuits that were thrown out of court. one of the things that always has struck me about political fund raising is to almost say anything and get away with it whereas if you are advertising tooth paste and have people send you money that it rots your teeth out you go to jail i have never understood that i think this is a having interesting case for that reason because the first amendment doesn't protect people from -- protect speech designed to fleece hundreds of thousands of people of hundreds of millions of dollars that's what happened here. they said they need the money but only ones who were committing fraud and committing fraud on all these people who sent in these checks thinking

that they were something going to uncover fraud and everyone in the trump campaign telling the president of the united states that there's no there there. coming up in the fourth hour, aaron sorkin will be our guest with a new look at his broadway venture but first, joe's interview with martin scorsese. that conversation just ahead on "morning joe." your work is your calling. it drives your days and powers your nights. but if your teeth no longer work as hard as you do, aspen dental is here with smile replacement solutions that work for your life. whether it's your first step, or a fast fix, you can get in today for all your denture needs, all at an affordable price. right now, get 20% off dentures and make your smile work for you again.

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we are expecting some more key inflation data today after the labour department report yesterday shows consumer prices rose 0.1% in march as the fed weighs the next move on interest rates.

joining us is "morning joe" economic analyst steve ratner at the big wall with his big charts good morning what are you looking at? >> good morning. we had inflation numbers from yesterday as you said. and the news was basically pretty good. let's look at it a couple ways we have headline inflation which is the prices put together you can see that we climbed that mountain these are year over year numbers. see the monthly increases coming down this is driven by energy gas prices having peaked about a year ago food and so forth. coming down from 6% to 5% in a month. good news. the thing to be concerned about is core inflation taking out food, energy look at literally the core of the economy and there the news not quite as good. ticked up a little bit to just over 5%.

this is the challenge from fed from there to there. that's still hard work maybe another interest rate coming in early may. >> is that the sense that they may will make one more interest rate thike at the fed? >> right now two thirds chance of another 25-basis increase and then the fed pausing to see what happens after that. >> let's move to the next chart and really good news a record for black unemployment in this un. >> yeah. so last friday we had the jobs numbers. 236,000 new jobs about as expected. a steady pace. but the really interesting news is what's happening to black unemployment it's historically higher than white unemployment spiked up in covid

now look, down at 5%, lowest ever recorded and white unemployment didn't move barely at all last month. this is running a hot, strong economy that basically employers need workers so much they suck in people not finding jobs in less robust economic times. >> record low of 5%. during the financial crisis of 2010, black unemployment at 17%. look at the third chart. more good news about income gains. strongest at the bottom of the income ladder. >> we talk about how bad income inequality is. this is the bottom quarter of americans earns $35,000 or less.

and then it climbed back up steadily again a strong economy before covid brought the rate of increase up. covid and now. since the beginning of 2020, real after inflation increases in incomes up 7% at the bottom but at the top 2%. a long way to address income inequality but we every making progress on that front. >> do you have any explanation for the three charts, the three smily faces on the economy and yet national polls indicate that people are up set about the economy and worried about the economy and asking individual people one by one that you see at the store how are you doing, they say i'm doing okay? why the disparity between the national number on people worried about the economy and

individuals who say i'm doing fine >> it is a great question and one that certainly politicians and economists have been thinking about the best i can say is there's a lag effect and a tough economy for a long time that people still aren't feeling economically secure. feeling like they are in good shape. people at the bottom are doing better but talking about people earning $35,000 or less in an economy in a tough period. that's the challenge to convince the voters that they are on the case and trying to make things better. dianne feinstein is facing new calls to step down and coming from her own party. we'll have new reporting on that next on "morning joe."

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department investigation discovered more than 100 migrant children cleaning mid western slaughter houses the employer agreed to stop employing children nbc news talked to a 16-year-old that said he is still cleaning that kansas slaughter house. joining us is department of homeland security correspondent julia ainsley. good morning what else did you find >> reporter: as you know, it is a problem that officials federally expect is industry wide we know that dhs is looking into multiple companies across the country where they believe some children may have been brought to the united states as part of a human trafficking scheme to work here. what we haven't seen until this point is an individual who's brave enough to speak about the experience we met a 16-year-old boy working in kansas who is still working for this company and willing to

share his story. some of the images we are going to show you could be disturbing. in a small kansas town an undocumented 16-year-old we are called pedro to protect the identity is heading to work the overnight shift to clean a slaughter house. that hazardous work illegal for anyone under 15. this is what it looked like before it was scrubbed down. what was work like last night? >> translator: well, it was very tough. >> reporter: what do you clean >> translator: where they kill the cows itch to clean the blood of the cows until i finish and left the area clean. >> reporter: pedro said is shift starts 11:00 p.m. to 8:00 a.m. with just enough time to shower and get to high school and working there since 15

up to seven days a week. did you have trouble staying awake to learn >> translator: yes it takes the toll. it is very tiring. and also because of the sleepiness. >> reporter: he works for pssi the company settled after investigators uncovered more than 100 children some as young as 13 working illegally. pssi pledged it would not hire children paid $1.5 million fine. children were fired at multiple locations according to some company employees. but pedro is still on the job. a dangerous job. like other child workers he was severely burned from cleaning chemicals. i noticed you were coughing. is that from the chemicals >> translator: yes the chemicals are strong.

>> reporter: he says he fled poverty in guatemala two years ago. he was brought awe loan to find a job. he says he sends almost all salary to the parents more than 2,000 miles away. >> translator: they pay me because there are a lot of people that earn the money. >> reporter: pssi would not grant an interview but said it uses the government's system and says responsibility lies with understood age employees pedro said he used fake papers that say he is an adult to get the job. >> these kids are living in fear, will do anything. >> reporter: pastor says he knows more than a dozen children who were told by the smugglers and the people they live with they have no choice but to clean

at night. >> you wish you could take them all in and figure out a way to let them live the age, enjoy what other kids their age are enjoying here in the united states. >> reporter: they weren't allowed to be? >> robbed from them. you have to act like an adult. if you mess up you get treated like an adult which none of the kids can handle that emotional stress. >> reporter: with the money pedro earns he pays off the debt to that smuggler. >> translator: we have only enough for our food and the rent only that. >> reporter: like many he lives with a relative that charges him represent. we asked him what he misses the most. >> translator: i am alone. i miss my parents, my family >> reporter: pssi asked nbc news for pedro's real name saying

they would fire him immediately. we are withholding the identity because we want him to speak freely without fear. pssi said they would redouble efforts to identify him. now a live report from nashville ahead of justin pearson's swearing in ceremony this morning "morning joe" is coming right back

so we decided that we would do buster poindexter that's me. ♪ singing the songs of david

johansen, that's me. here we are. both of us ♪ let's just dance ♪ ♪ >> little coallombian guy. >> fantastic music. >> personality i was dancing like a gazelle. >> didn't you understand get arrested for impersonating a woman? >> yeah. >> you were the vanguard of punk why you decided you had enough of it? >> singing "hot hot hot" buster poindexter. >> i was a one-hit wonder twice. >> you were a band's band.

to have influence like that i think is really good >> you spend a lot of time putting on a show. while you're keeping hidden other aspects of your life. >> it took us so long to grow up. >> that's the rush my show is out of the ordinary vegetarian, gay, straight. i just wanted to bring the walls down and have a party. ♪ i need protection from the cold ♪ >> this "personality crisis" martin scorsese turns the lens to david johansen of the new york dolls and buster poindexter a celebration of the music career and influence on the downtown new york scene.

scorsese captures the january 2020 performance at the cafe carlisle bringing the unique blend of swing, blues and rock to the uptown audience martin and david joins us now. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> so let's start by just talking about, martin, how timing is everything january 2020 a couple of months later like the world blew up. my god how fortunate to get it in when you did. tell us about how this project came together. >> been aware of -- more than aware a great fan of the dolls in '72, '73. throughout the years following the transformation the personas of david to buster

poindexter we worked together on boardwalk empire music supervisor who put us together you did a lot of stuff for board walk and then in vinyl with people performing as david and the dolls. that have ed itted by david who co-directed this film and did the film with me and bob dylan and that sort of thing but i -- during that time i became aware, too, of radio show mansion of fun i didn't know it was him curating the show. american folk. south american

all of this sort of thing mixed together it became an inspiring kind of foundation of my listening experience and the films i made we were told that you were at the cafe carlisle that i associate with cole porter you know what i mean >> yeah. i was playing it for years. >> i didn't realize. >> a couple two-week runs maybe twice a week. >> oh wow. >> and it is a dream because you can sleep there. >> in the hotel? >> yeah. it is -- my dream my life is taking an elevator to work it is -- i used to have this thing. prez a but on the and be in the dressing room. it is the shlepp that kills you. >> that's right.

for me, you say going to see him at the cafe carlisle and we watch the show. and after it was over we said we got to shoot this thing. we have to get it on film. we didn't know it would be a film but we wanted to record it. you know >> yeah. >> we pulled it together ron howard came in we -- you know, pulled together enough to get through two or three nights of shooting at the cafe carlisle. within two months -- i was flying around with irish men amaybe a few weeks later it was shut down. we had just captured it in time. >> if your career ended with the new york dolls you would still be a rock god for what you started there and what came out

of the new york dolls is extraordinary. the career is reminds me culturally of when i read the book on bobby kennedy, the cover said the story is the story of our times. the story of your life and career is a story of new york city culture from 1974 to some of the most vibrant times in the city's history as an artist, what pushed you to move from the dolls to buster poindexter to telling rabbi jokes in the catskills to where you are right now? you kept pushing yourself. why? >> between the dolls and buster poindexter i had several years of the david johansen group

which was a rock n roll band we made four or five records and toured incessantly in a van and speaking of the shlepp that kills you. used to have this adventure called the walkman i used to listen to tapes that good friends would send me who are like whose taste i admired you know i got a couple of tapes of jump blues which is i called it rock n roll bloody songs and just a beautiful racket going on behind it i used to listen to that and in the van. and i decided that i was going to do a couple of shows at

tramps which was a saloon in my neighbor that had really good music. and i was going to do four mondays as -- i just had the name buster poindexter because i didn't want to put in the village voice david johansen as -- it was a new thing people didn't have to associate it with anything they didn't have to be in the audience yelling because i wanted to do what i wanted to do it was such a success that we started to do weekends and i lived like two blocks from there. i could it and we started doing weekends. i lived like two blocks from there. i could walk to work it was good. then the band built organically. i would look up and hear horns

and there would be horn players on the stage and things like that eventually it became this big swinging band. we made a record that was the beginning of the end. >> how liberating was it for you to be able to step out of yourself as david joe hansen and take on this character >> it's not like i invented the character, so to speak, because it's me. it's me kind of uncheck. whereas when i used to do the david johansson show, i was trying to present this image of myself without any of the shadows, so to speak with buster, it gave me a chance to let it all hang out it wasn't planned or anything.

it just turned out like that. >> your songs are just as vibrant today as they were in the early '70s do you ever give yourself a chance to stop to say, it's been a wild ride, but at the core of it i'm a pretty good musician. >> i'm just me i'll give you an example when marcy got us together to do a concert in london at the meltdown festival. i don't know how many years ago it was, but probably 15 years ago or something i was kind of hesitant with the dolls, over the years i had just taken on the journalist kind of they were trashy, they

were flashy, they were junkies, whatever, you know that was about as far as i went with it. this is after years. so i started listening to the records to prepare for the show. i don't really sit around listening to records at my home. they were very musical and genius lyrics if i do say so myself and a lot of fun they were >> last night i got back around midnight i said oh my god, i got to get to sleep, but let me check out the album "too much too soon." i have this big system and it's a soundproof room. it was 1:00 in the morning i played the whole album.

>> i'd like to check out that room. >> it's not bad. >> can you tell us what it was like seeing all of your life unfold in front of you in this documentary? >> it's a not all my life. it's a version of my life that i can live with, that i can enjoy. i paint, i have a lot of creative outlets, you know sometimes i wonder is anybody going to like this film? it's kind of i don't know how to

explain it, but it's like a family vibe, right your family, my family. >> exactly >> you know i got to know marty a lot during this process. he's a wondrous fellow, you know then like the early kind of returns of people who have seen the movie are like insane about it, they just love it. i started thinking lately this movie kind of represents like a certain tribe of people, people who have a similar kind of sense about looking at the world and how they choose to live their lives. i use a lot of shortcut words, but they're not consumers, so to

speak. they're just people who dig what they dig, you know i think a lot of people pr probably it's a beautiful film. >> "personality crisis" debuts tomorrow night on showtime guys, thank you so much. it's been a real honor. >> thank you. >> thank you, joe. ♪

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it is 6:00 out west, 9:00 here on the east coast we'll go live to nashville where justin pearson will be sworn into the state house seat he was expelled from last week following a gun violence protest. on capitol hill, democrats need to find a temporary replacement for senator diane feinstein as she recovers from a health issue plus wall street is reacting to new economic data a little bit later this hour aaron sorkin will be our guest elise jordan is back with us and joining the table, president of the national action network reverend al sharpton and mark

leibovich. we know it's spring when rev brings out the blue linen. resplendent, rev let's begin with a federal appeals court partially blocking a ruling that could imperil the most widely used abortion pill in the united states the approval of mifepristone dates back to 2000 t for now, the number of in-person visits patients are required to make to get the drug go up from one to three and the drug will not be distributed by mail

let's bring in lisa rubin. help us sort through this. this broke overnight there is still access to this abortion pill, but some of these restrictions imposed by the texas judge do remain in place. >> absolutely. about seven years worth of restrictions i think the one with the most impact is the fact that mifepristone will no longer be available through the mail after the dobbs ruling, there are creations of what we would call abortion deserts all throughout the country if you can't get mifepristone by mail, your access to abortion just got that much more difficult. >> one of the judges in this ruling of the circuit court basically said if it were up to me i would just completely get rid of the texas judge's ruling

because it's not valid what is the future of this case? >> i think the department of justice is going to seek guidance from the supreme court. they're going to appeal this partial stay to the supreme court for two reasons. one, it cuts off access to women in all sorts of ways also, this is still at odds with that washington federal court ruling that prevented the fda from changing any of the existing regulations to abortion it's not possible for the fda to abide by both. they're going to have to escalate this to the supreme court. >> how quickly will the supreme court have to act? >> have to act is a great way of framing the question, because the supreme court, as you know, doesn't have to do anything. before that texas abortion bounty hunter law took effect, advocates went to the supreme court before that law took effect looking for immediate action from the supreme court. the supreme court didn't act the law was able to take effect before the supreme court ruled

the department of justice is hoping they will act before saturday at midnight. >> are you worried about the precedent the texas judge's ruling could set for the future, which is, i don't like a certain drug, i object to it on moral grounds or religious grounds so let's just overturn the fda approval. >> absolutely. this is an assault on the authority of the fda that's why you saw 400 pharmaceutical executives saying this ruling is lawless because it disincentivizes research. if it can happen to mifepristone, it can happen to anything mifepristone is safer than tylenol. if that isn't safe, what does that say for the rest of the medicine cabinet >> so mifepristone is available,

it's more difficult to get >> that is correct you have to go to your doctor three times. >> let's bring in symone sanders townsend and ab stoddard let's talk about the political side of this and why more republicans, including almost every senator except one from mississippi have not come out in support of the texas judge's ruling, perhaps because they understand the politics are very bad for them. >> sure. there is a new survey that was out. they looked at abortion access across the country from july to december of 2022 they found more than 68,000

women in america could not access the abortion care they needed between july and december i think a reason you have not seen more republicans pounce on this, if you will, is because what is happening runs counter to what folks from run on for years. folks ran on the republican party apparatus around overruling roe, returning this decision to the states they did not organize around jailing doctors or women for seeking abortion they did not run on getting rid of all abortion coming after birth control but that's exactly what is happening across the country. >> on this issue you write, in private conversations throughout the party, republicans are trying to figure out how to dump

trump because he has led the party to defeat in the last three elections. are voters with trump because he's the champion of less government or lower taxes? they are with him precisely because he rejects humility and decency. they know him to be a man of abhorrent character. he leads all primary polling he continues to climb in all the polling in the republican

primary. >> that's right. so we've seen for eight years with donald trump that hope is not a plan republicans always hope that somebody else will take him on so they don't have to suffer politically at home and they can keep their jobs. there is widespread desire to get rid of donald trump. there are people in the 2024 field, some declared candidates and some who are positioning themselves to be a candidate for the primary contest and win the nomination who are running technically against donald trump, but none of them will take him onto take him down. it is the same with abortion they believe they can wish this away it is not up to anyone to tell the party this is a panic level liability. it is up to the people in the presidential field running against donald trump to reset this debate so it is not an electoral liability for them next year.

at the same time donald trump is surging not only past his lead rival ron desantis but in light of his indictment he received more endorsements and his lead has grown since alvin bragg released those charges against trump. this is a party paralyzed at the very top level we know they want to get rid of trump. an ally of kevin mccarthy, a close friend says this is not a secret that all throughout republican elites and the establishment they would like him to just go away and fall under his own weight but no one seems to be able to stand up and talk about abortion and say let's see where the

country is and be back to a consensus position which is an early legal abortion with exceptions and let's say because of donald trump is not electable in a general election. they are silent. >> the only place we hear that criticism is in memos to donors. nikki haley said donald trump is too backward looking they don't come out and say it they whisper it in closed rooms. >> which shows they really don't have the kind of mettle you want to be president. you have to show you can defeat somebody like donald trump to get the nomination and that will do a lot for you then becoming a real contestant in the general election if you're intimidated by trump, why would we trust you with world affairs, with putin and others that are threats to the

united states? i think one thing people are not speaking as often as they should in the whole question of reproductive rights is even in the black community where we have had segments that have been conservative on this, many of the ministers that have been pro life are saying they're going too far. they will energize the turnout for the democrats that they may not have gotten because between women's reproductive rights and guns, they're starting to energize a base for the democrats that the democrats would have had to work a lot harder to get. >> it's extraordinary just what we've seen in the last couple of weeks in this country. if you go back to the former president of the united states being arraigned, the election in

wisconsin which told us a lot about where that state and perhaps some other suburbs are around the issue of abortion, shootings in nashville and louisville what is the connection between all those events as you see it >> the connection is that republicans continue to play down hope is not a strategy we've seen this for eight years. this is not a new story at all what's stunning to me is trump is essentially running unopposed again for the republican party yes, you hear endlessly about the private conversations. even mike pence finally takes a stand against trump in a private washington off the record dinner party a few weeks ago. to me, that's a poor stand-in for courage. they know they have a dual problem, one being with donald

trump and one with abortion. the two are really neck and neck about what makes republicans nervous going into next year a year from now, april of 2024, it's extremely likely republicans could be in the exact same position. the needle never moves here and there is a groundhog day feel to this he's the one person who has let himself a little bit say this is not good for us politically, which is obvious but also not something republicans let themselves say it will be interesting how they can finesse that >> don't we know how this story ends hasn't the last seven or eight years taught us there will be

hand bringing and private dinners where people complain about donald trump and want to get rid of him and as he continues to amass power and go up in the polls, they're just going to fall in line and he's going to become the nominee. the wildcard is all these serious potential indictments coming down the road on these two matters in georgia and the two special counsel investigations but is anybody going to stand up to donald trump in the republican party >> to the first part of your question, i absolutely agree that come a donald trump nomination, everybody will say this is binary and he's the nominee of my party and of course we have to stop the wild reckless socialists on the other side and we can't reelect biden. but in the question of future indictments, some people hope he will go down under the weight of

too much baggage, say this is great, republicans rallied around him after alvin bragg's indictment because it was weak and this really inoculates them in the future with the maga base saying these other indictments are pretty serious matters and they won't win him in a general. i am going to be surprised if that's what we hear them say. >> yeah. more likely they'll go on tv weeping, asking for money to be donated to donald trump to help with his legal bills. >> right >> thank you so much always great to see you. to tennessee now where the shelby county board of commissioners unanimously voted to reappoint justin pearson to the tennessee legislature.

the trio became known as the tennessee three. they faced an expulsion vote representative jones was sworn in again to the tennessee house on monday following his unanimous reappointment by the nashville metropolitan council pearson will be sworn in for the second time this year later this hour >> reporter: that's right. it is back to work for justin pearson. he was unanimously voted in by members of the shelby county board of commissioners in memphis yesterday. after that vote, he was met by cheers and applause. we'll likely see that excitement here in nashville at the capitol where in a matter of minutes he will officially be sworn in and enter the house claimers joining

his fellow colleagues justin jones and gloria johnson, who all make up the tennessee three. on monday his colleague justin jones had a similar scene play out here in nashville where the council voted unanimously to reappoint justin jones we should point out this is just temporary. they're just interim successors for now. there will be a special election later on this summer, which will be announced at a later date we've been following this for several weeks. the catalyst of all this was the mass shooting at the covenant school in nashville. then came the political fallout here in tennessee. it's put the spotlight on lawmakers to do something. this week the republican governor lee signed an executive order to strengthen background checks for gun purchases we'll be watching a lot today as the tennessee three will be

joining house republicans later on today >> thank you extraordinary just in the course of a week that through their own eloquence and peaceful protests that they have become national stars. also the lack of foresight by the republicans expelling them from the senate and what this has galvanized among progressives and democrats. >> what we have seen over the last week is significant, to say the least. i spoke with the tennessee three and the democratic leadership of the tennessee state legislature. what i found interesting is that the tennessee three come out of an advocacy background they were all organizers gloria johnson was inspired by the obama coalition. pearson was a pipeline organizer, jones organizer

they brought that organizing into the state house that is why the people are standing with them what we are seeing is if you stand with the people, the people will stand with you >> i think also you must look at the fact that tennessee is going to be very much a place that there will be a lot of activism. the parents of tyre nichols killed by police earlier this year, they live in pearson's district they just got in memphis the tyre nichols law and they are fighting to make this statewide. between guns and policing, a lot of us are going to be spending a lot of time in tennessee that can potentially energize the vote

when you have activism and people from that coming into the state house, that's when you see change the balance was i went inside, others stayed outside. that's how we got these bills through. that's what we hope to do in tennessee and other states. >> republicans took the step to kick these two young black men out, overturning the will of the voters they're back a week later, everybody in the country knows who they are and the issue of gun safety has been put front and center. >> there's not any grand plan here republicans have developed a real knack for sabotaging themselves in ways that are completely avoidable tennessee is in a way a micro

c microcosm of issues across the country. because they're certainly a guerrilla army at this point, they kind of govern with their ids. they very reactive you have situations where you're energizing the other side in ways you might not have foreseen it can be extremely destructive to you politically in some ways that's how the republican congress is organizing itself right now also. >> we had senatorchris murphy on he tries to cut through the cynicism and says, look, just within the last 24 hours because of what happened in nashville, the republican governor of tennessee bill lee signed an executive order making it more difficult for certain people to get their hands on a gun

>> these small steps matter, because any time we do something that will prevent a killer like the louisville killer last week and what happened in nashville just making it a little bit harder is progress i think you're seeing the activism awakened in places like tennessee that are one-party rule essentially there's a strong tradition of organizing in the south. you see how this last week mobilized tennessee democrats and tennesseeans who otherwise weren't that political but now they're watching because they're horrified by what happened in nashville. >> that feels like movement. >> absolutely. it's not going anywhere. the fact these young men were reinstated is not the end of this it has put the focus on the issue. again, the police killing just

two months ago of tyre nichols has been a focus as they converge, tennessee is going to be ground zero for a lot of activism for people like me. >> bill lee, very conservative governor, he acted very swiftly after these shootings. acting like this on a gun issue especially for a republican in the south is not an easy thing to do. he just did it this is not a dangerous political thing to do in a state where basically the vast majority of people are very much against any new tougher gun laws, but they also don't want these shootings to keep happening. i think that's where a lot of the country is and i think we're developing a consensus in some

ways >> some republicans say nothing's going to change here now you hear people saying we don't have the option of being k cynical. >> yupeople want to see change. if their lawmakers are not willing to make that change, we are going to see more and more young people in the spirit of justin jones and justin pearson put their names on the ballot. we saw bill lee. i don't think he had a change of heart. i think he read the tea leaves here the governor's wife's best friend was killed in that covenant school shooting the last point i want to make, yes, the members are reinstated.

make no mistake, that is not a solution to the insult of racial discrimination i do think the justice department has a role to play across the country particularly across the south we are seeing black power be dismantled by state legislatures look at mississippi. look at the city of jackson. the maps that desantis drew in florida that worked to erase a district that was created since reconstruction where's the department of justice? where's the investigation? this deserves the government's attention. coming up here on "morning joe," we'll have the latest on a new environmental concern in the midwest, a fire burning at a plastic recycling plant in indiana.

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this morning crews are still trying to put out a massive fire at a plastic recycling plant in richmond, indiana. the fire is contained but not under control. more than 2,000 residents have been evacuated amid fears cancer causing toxins could be spreading throughout the area. owner of the plant has not commented on that fire. npr says it plans to shut down its official twitter account in response to the elon

musk-owned platform labeling the news agency as government-funded media. npr says the label undermines its credibility and falsely implies it is not editorially independent. twitter initially labeled npr as state-affiliated media which is typically used for outlets with direct ties to government entities neither musk nor twitter have commented. actor and former california governor arnold schwarzenegger took matters into his own hands to fix a pothole in his l.a. neighborhood but city officials say he made a mistake. turns out it was not a pothole, but a service trench according a spokesperson from the city of los angeles. it relates to active permitted work being performed by so cal gas.

>> are you going to say that's not a pothole? there is arnold filling in a pothole. you can call it a trench. >> they're doing some gas work. >> that is just the kind of political garbage that arnold transcends he gets out of the house he walk into a pretty treacherous area of brentwood and fills in the pothole that's a bad thing this is the cynicism that we need to get beyond in politics. >> running interference for arnold schwarzenegger. in more serious matters, diane feinstein of california is temporarily giving up her seat on the judiciary committee after some called for her to resign from the senate right away let's bring in sakapur.

we had senator chris murphy on he was offended that some democrats were calling for her to resign. >> yes these concerns have been percolating for some time. for the first time democrats are coming out and saying senator feinstein could quit ro khanna says, quote, it is time for senator feinstein to resign while she has had a lifetime of public service it is obvious she can no longer fulfill these duties democrats cannot preach on television about the danger of anti-apportion judges and sit silently as feinstein misses vote after vote. he is joined by congressman dean

phillips of minnesota, who said he agrees with canna and it would be a dereliction of duty for feinstein to remain in the senate all this came moments after nbc reported yesterday about growing alarms on both ends of pennsylvania avenue about senator feinstein. she is 89 years old. she has not voted in the senate since mid february she holds a pivotal vote on the judiciary committee. without her, democrats have been stranded for the last eight weeks on moving president biden's judicial nominees to the senate floor that don't have republican support this is a very high order of priority for the president it's one of the few things they can do in divided government without republicans, but they can't while feinstein is out her statement says, quote, i intend to return as soon as possible once my medical team advises it's safe for me to travel she says she understands concerns about her work on the

judiciary committee and she has asked leader schumer to allow another senator to serve until she is able to resume her committee work a spokesperson said per feinstein's wishes, schumer will temporarily replace her. this is a lot easier said than done it's not like rearranging plates on a table they need unanimous consent or 60 votes i was texting with aides yesterday, not getting a straight answer on whether they will grant unanimous consent to replace feinstein on the judiciary committee. >> it's complicated. we are following new inflation data this morning. let's bring in dom chew.

what do the new numbers look like >> it's a sign inflation is cooling off. prices paid by companies fell by half a percent in march over february that so-called producer price index month over month change was one of the lowest reads since april of 2020. economists were expecting the measure to show no change. now, as has been for much of the case of the inflationary surge over the last year, food and energy prices have been a big driver of it if you strip out those effects, those core producer prices still fell by .1% month over month economists were looking for a 2% gain if you look on that year over year basis, inflation is still growing, but it is cooling off

significantly. the 2.7% annual growth rate in march compares to a 4.9% gain in february all americans are keeping a close eye on prices paid at the retail and wholesale levels but traders are using this data to handicap whether the fed will raise rates in may the only thing is the number of americans filing for first-time jobless benefits it rose again this past week initial claims at 239,000 according to the labor department 239,000 is still a relatively low level of weekly jobless claims by historical zastandard, but there is some concern about the recent trend higher of unemployment claims because it does represent the highest claims number since january of last year. the four-week average is also on the rise it might be a sign that the initial point of stages here

that the economy might be starting to cool off a little more significantly still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> i would not just shut up and dribble, because i mean too much to my two boys here, their best friend right here, my daughter that's at home, my wife, my family and all these other kids that look up to me for inspiration and trying to find a way out. >> a look at lebron james and his influence. your brain is an amazing thing. but as you get older, it naturally begins to change, causing a lack of sharpness, or even trouble with recall. thankfully, the breakthrough in prevagen helps your brain and actually improves memory. the secret is an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription.

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i remember walking these same streets i remember walking north street, west market. i remember walking behind here going to harris elementary, riding my bike through the rest of the city. so when people ask me why a school, that's part of the reason why, because i know exactly what these 240 kids are going through. a kid growing up in the inner city and me specifically growing up here in akron, ohio, you know being underprivileged and feeling that you could become a statistic. by me being able to put something like this together, i want people to know these kids

still have the same opportunity as everyone else that's what's most important. >> that is nba superstar lebron james in 2018 at the opening of his i promise school in akron, ohio, a public institution designed to help underprivileged children the school is dedicated to students who are in danger of falling through the cracks not the first time james delved beyond the world of basketball his words about donald trump pitted him against the commander in chief and drew the ire of at least one conservative pundit who famously advised him to, quote, shut up and dribble joining me is jeff benedict. his new book chronicles lebron when lebron was playing in high school, i was a sports producer. i remember going to one of his

games when he was 16 or 17 the game was on espn there were nba scouts in the crowd. jay-z walked into this high school game. i remember thinking at that moment there's no way this guy could ever live up to this i actually felt bad for him. and he's gone on to be even more than what was expected. >> he's been selling out arenas since he was 16 years old. it's hard to imagine being compared to michael jordan while you're still in law shigh schoo. there's nobody, not even tiger woods, who had that much expectation placed on them as an adolescent lebron has this squeaky clean record he's been the perfect role model since he was 16.

>> sports illustrated called him the chosen one on the cover at 16 years old you get into a lot of what he's done off the basketball court. michael jordan is his hero, like most basketball players, famously kind of stayed out of politics andactivism over the years. at what point did lebron say i'm going to cross that line >> that's an easy question to answer because we can just look. if you look at the beijing olympics in 2008, for two years lebron was criticized loudly for not speaking out about china's human rights record. the other person was steven spielberg. he'd been brought in to choreograph the opening ceremonies l lebron was the most visible athlete from america

spielberg stepped away because of the pressure. right after those olympics, jay-z approached lebron about performing for him at a concert to support barack obama. it's the initial foray into politics for lebron but it's slow i think that eight-year relationship with the president, being in the white house not just when you win championships but for other reasons, working on his health care plan, learning how to actually do this by the time barack obama leaves office eight years later, lebron is a very different person in terms of understanding how it works, how to use his platform in an effective way. >> i know you've worked with lebron as jeff writes in the book, in terms of being an icon in our culture, lebron is more like muhammad ali than he is michael jordan. >> one night many years ago when lebron was just coming up, i was

at the havana club where they smoke cigars here. lebron was playing on the tv set you could see. jordan, to my surprise, said you see that kid, rev? he's got it. i'm not a big sports fan that's why i started paying attention. he was different than jordan he would become involved i will never forget in the middle of the trayvon martin case and we could not get george zimmer man arrested, lebron stood up and made a difference he was then playing in miami he became for my generation what ali was, what joe lewis was for my mother's generation, who

didn't really take big stands until later in life. there will always be arguments in the history of jordan or lebron, but in terms of political empowerment, lebron got to the level he did without any of us cajoling him. >> by stepping through that door, he made it possible for all the other guys in the nba to say, okay, lebron is doing it, we can all do that. >> he's had an evolution over the years. it's been kind of a culture ride in the nba there's an expectation that athletes in the nba right now will speak out you have kevin durant and lebron even in the bubble a few years ago which was during the george floyd summer, the activism happened kind of organically

lebron was part of a kcast of a large group, but it was very much around his example. >> what's your sense of where he goes he's still averaging 30 points a game what's your sense of what his post basketball career might look like? >> i'm going to point to something he did that i think signals what it could be when donald trump was running against hillary and there was almost no time left, that tape came out about the things donald trump said about women that got leaked his response to it was, oh, that's just locker room talk lebron was the first athlete to step up and say i have a mother-in-law, i have a locker room. just the way he delivered that message, he never used trump's name he didn't attack anybody it was just this incredibly powerful moment where just that

statement, it's like, wow, that's a leader. so i think in terms of what he could do after, i mean, he could do anything he wants in entertainment, but there's another lane that could be open for him, and i think he'd be -- that would be something. >> donald trump attacked him in that moment as well, and i think wasn't the response you bum quite simply, or that was a different moment. >> you bum is when he defended steph curry. that's another thing about lebron, he'll defend his friends. >> it's such a fascinating book, it's entitled lebron, jeff benedict, thanks so much good to see you. the atlantic's mark leave vich thank you as well, you'll stay on top of the schwarzenegger pothole story coming up next, legendary screen writer aaron sorkin joins the table to talk about his revival of the broadway classic "camelot." we're back in just two minutes d kayak to book our car, we could have saved on our trip instead of during our trip.

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strong and clear if they have not, that once there was a fleeting wisp of glory called camelot, the legendary broadway musical. >> tonight the classic tale of king arthur and the knights of the round table returns to the stage in the fourth revival, it opens more than 60 years after the original run aaron sorkin giving camelot a fresh task that proved a lot more difficult than he might have imagined. two months before rehearsals were set to begin, sorkin suffered a stroke that left him struggling to type first of all, how's your health? you look great. >> i feel terrific thanks >> good. so camelot in 1960, it debuts on broadway how does it look different in your telling 63 years later? >> well, in a musical anything that isn't sung is called the book, and the book for "camelot" has always just been

problematic. lincoln center two or three years ago commissioned me to write a brand new book, it's kind of laid out the score on the floor, and start from scratch with the new book, and that's what i did, and we open tonight. >> you open tonight. for people maybe who haven't seen this, obviously everyone's aware of camelot what is this, maybe the updated version, what is this about at its core what is this a story about to you? >> it's the story of king arthur, king arthur, gwenevire and lancelot, this camelot is not updated. it is not modern, but what's different about it is that there's no magic at all. >> right. >> it's not really something producers like to put on the marquee, no magic, but it's

meant to be a real king in a real place at a realtime. >> it doesn't have a supernatural element >> merlin isn't a magician there's no enchanted forest that can keep arthur prisoner it's just a little bit realer. >> jackie kennedy famously branded her kennedy family cam camelot, and your work, even if it's not directly political, i always get a little bit of politics from it, maybe it's just because i'm a "west wing" fan and fan of other work. how do you see the politics of today having influenced this version of "camelot" that you redesigned >> i'd be surprised if people didn't recognize today in the "camelot" that we're doing it's meant to speak to today hopefully it doesn't hit you over the head with it, but listen, i like -- i've always loved musicals, and i like in a

theater when people walk in and they feel two inches taller when the lights come up and they walk back out, and that's what this camelot is meant to do >> when you say people feel two inches taller, what do you hope they leave the theater with and what message, if any, do you hope they leave with, or do you want to give them a mebssage, i it just about entertainment? there are those that are divided on what the intentions are when they do a production like this >> yeah, i hope reverend that it's aspirational, that it's romantic, and idealistic and that they feel that people ought to keep reaching for the stars no matter how many times they fail >> and a great cast we should mention too. >> it's a fantastic cast it's andrew brown, jordan donica, it's a great cast.

it a's it's a diverse cast. and even if you have seen "ca "camelot," you haven't seen this "ca "camelot" and i should mention bart share directed and it's beautiful to look at. >> phillip people will remember as liza from hamilton. aaron sorkin, always so good to see you, thanks for being here. >> take care rev, let's talk about national action network, the conference you're holding you line up the stars. you've got magic johnson in there today and tomorrow vice president kamala harris will be with you. >> vice president kamala harris is speaking tomorrow which will contrast with the nra convention at the same time with donald trump. we're going to deal with gun safety but today magic johnson is doing a workshop we're also doing, as i said, alexis magill johnson head of planned parenthood we're doing -- i remember will be part of our criminal justice

panel, and lawrence o'donnell is doing our media panel. we have a lot of people with names but what's impressive to me is people from all over the country have come that are activists. these are the people that fight the issues even when it's not popular. very concerned as the may yor o new york will be hosting other mayors today, very concerned with how we deal with public safety and criminal justice reform at the same time. they're not something that should be opposing each other. they are to be complementing each other eric adams is going to have a national call with other mayors that will be talking about that. we're excited about national action network. >> always assemble quite a group there levd by reverend al sharpton >> that does it for us this morning for mo"morning joe," for now ana cabrera picking up the coverage ♪

hello, and thank you so much for joining us it is 10:00 eastern. i'm ana cabrera reporting from new york there are a lot of fast-moving stories we're staying on top of this hour. right now donald trump is sbak in new york, just over a week aftering after being indicted by the manhattan district attorney. the former president will be questioned in another case this morning, this one involves new york's attorney general. remember, he pled the fifth hundreds of times in his first deposition in this case, which we have on tape, but according to new reporting, as of now he is not expected to plead the fifth this time. if that's the case, why then and not now. also overnight, a mixed ruling of sorts in the battle over this abortion drug mifepristone, what the new ruling means for women across the country sk. and just in the last hour and a half or so, president biden's most extensive comments yet on the massive intelligence leak from the pentagon >> there's a full blown investigation goin