you know we're the only news show with lighters, right? some people like them. here's what john had to say tonight. >> take them i love it. do what you gotta do let him go >> i have a lot of family. my uncle, my aunt, my grandfather. everybody wants an ari lighter don't be jelly >> don't be jelly means don't be jealous. we love our beat lighters. we love our ges, and yeah, sunday night, as a reminder, you can check out this new series on msnbc premieres sunday, leguizamo does america msnbc or streaming on peacock. we love telling you about that on "the beat" tonight. "the reidout" starts now

tonight on "the reidout" -- >> i'm going to have to swallow t this, the hallowed halls, and watching them disrespect the state that i chose to move to. by golly, it's got to stop >> as justin pearson is sworn back into the tennessee legislature, linked audio of the tennessee republicans who expelled them reveals exactly who they are, and it's not pretty >> also, as jury selection gets under way in the dominion defamation trial against fox, we're hearing new audio of top trump lackeys admitting there was no evidence to support their wild election conspiracy theories >> and arrested in that major intelligence leak. the documents revealed to the world through the discord online platform, which has been very popular with far right

extremists we begin tonight with a performance that would have made even pt barnum squirm. i'm referring to the recent interview between the living curiosities donald trump and tucker carlson for all to see trump displayed his usual performance of pretending that reality isn't real, while tuck ms showed to all how he could pretend to adore the man he called the demonic force whom he hates passionately trump's biggest illusion was his claim that new york court employees were crying and apologizing to him when he appeared for his arraignment on felony charges last week >> i'll tell you, people were crying people that work there, professionally work there, that have no problems putting in murders and they see everybody it's tough, tough place. and they were crying they were actually crying. they said, i'm sorry they would say 2024, sir 2024 and tears are pouring down

>> actually, no. sorry to ruin the illusion, but that appears to be one of trump's alternative facts. two people working in the courthouse that day told nbc news they didn't see anyone with tear stained faces and neither did any of the multiple reporters following trump's every step that day. from what we saw, trump couldn't even get employees there to hold the door for him let alone show any signs of wiping away tears. but as we have learned, it's not about the truth or the facts it's all just a performance. a performance by trump, by tucker, and by fox itself. it's all being done for the very demanding fox audience and that is how we have arrived at this point. where in a delaware courthouse today, jury selection was under way for the dominion voting systems $1.6 billion defamation lawsuit against the pretend news network. that trial is set to begin on monday it will include those same performers at fox having to

testify, including tucker, laura ingraham, sean hannity, maria barl aromo, as well as rupert murdoch who could testify as early as monday. perhaps one of the most unbridled performers egging on the rest of them was trump's personal lawyer and hype man, rudy giuliani. >> this is real. it is not made up. it is not -- there's nobody here that engages in fantasy. >> for example, not ever hiring again a company that counts votes in frankfurt, germany, that's owned by two venezuelans who are very close to hugo chavez and maduro. >> i know crimes i can smell them you don't have to smell this one. i can prove it to you 18 different ways i can prove to you that he won pennsylvania by 300,000 votes. i can prove to you that he won michigan by probably 50,000 votes. so they have done everything they can to yell out to you, we were tampering with the ballots

without being stupid enough to show it to you >> we know that behind the scenes the guy with the dye dripping down his face told a very different story not willing to push his allegations quite so far in one of the pennsylvania federal cases, after the 2020 election, giuliani admitted to the judge that their case was not in fact a fraud case and now, in newly released recordings obtained exclusively by my colleague alex wagner between rudy and maria bartiromo, just after the 2020 election indicate, surprise, rudy had no evidence there was anything wrong with dominion voting machines. >> i will be asking you for as much evidence as you can tell us about the lawsuits, whatever you can tell us in terms of evidence would be really helpful. >> i can tell you exactly what we have. >> perfect and what about this software, this dominion software >> that's a little harder to

tell you -- it's being analyzed right now. i mean, there are a couple races that have been reversed because the democrat was triple counted, two already in michigan. whether that applies for the whole state or not, i can't tell you yet. >> this software, does nancy pelosi have an interest in it? >> i have read that. i can't prove that >> that conversation was recorded by former fox producer abbey grossberg, who is suing the company for discrimination and is expected to testify during the dominion trial. she also provided other recorderings including a trump official in december of 2020 telling fox they, too, found no evidence of any issue with dominion's voting machines we have reached out to both fox and to giuliani's team for comment. no response yet. now let's bring in paul butler, former federal prosecutor, georgetown law professor and msnbc legal analyst, and tim miller, msnbc political analyst and writer at

large for the bulwark, and i'll start with you, paul we talked before the show went on about the crying and the weeping. your thoughts on whether this is just a dumb lie or a lie that actually could get trump in some problems >> all of the above. trump insulted the integrity of the people who work at the courthouse on day one, if you work at a courthouse, everybody learns from the file clerks to the judges that courts have to be objective they have to be neutral. so if it really happened, somebody could get fired but i doubt that the judge actually believes that people in the courthouse were crying so last week, trump was ordered by the judge not to say anything that would incite violence or civil unrest i don't think this statement quite reaches that level, but look, the first time in trump's life, a judge in a criminal case

has authority over what he says, what he puts online, and what he does he's inching closer and closer to a gag order >> and tim, the idea obviously of saying that to tucker who is pretending not to despise him passionately is to try to make the courthouse, specifically the police officers, the people who look like cops, sound like they're one of you, and they're so upset about this indictment that you should be upset, too. he's trying to sort of translate his own fear and pain onto the audience when the polling shows that, you know, at least most independents, people who aren't ardent fox viewers, don't mind he's being indicted. >> most people don't care about this a lot of his people who voted for him don't really care about this there was not, thank god, the massive protests and the threats of violence i think people rightly worried about. i think a lot of folks who are planning to vote in a republican

primary are still aligning themselves with him and are sympathetic to him, feel like he's being attacked by their perceived enemies, but they're not so upset that they're crying, and they're not so upset that they're out there protesting this is just a standard trump way. trump lies news at 5:00 he's been doing these stories of people calling him sir and crying he did a story recently about how ron desantis was crying. everybody seems to weep and wail when they're around trump. ron desantis apparently did when he begged for his endorsement. this is trump trying to puff himself up at a time where he's at a vulnerable, weak, submissive time when he had to stand before a judge >> or influence a jury i doubt ivanka is crying, tiffany, maybe a little bit. maybe. so let me play another recording, because the other piece of this is it feels like dominion has -- i'm not a lawyer, but it sounds like a solid case this is maria bartiromo talking

with a trump campaign official this is on december 5th, 2020. they knew they had lost the election, and here is what the conversation sounded like on december 5th >> are any of the machines, i know it was on war room the other day with steve bannon. have any of the machines been looked at? >> i would have to check on that in terms of georgia. i know during the audit they did check on those machines. let's go off the record for one second >> i don't want us to say it if it's not that's why i'm checking. >> i think they have looked at the machines when the secretary of state did its audit, there was a lot -- i think a fair bit of looking at the machines the audit came in pretty darn close to what the machine count was with the receipts. so i don't know the outcome of

those, but our understanding, again, this is from the secretary of state's office, was there weren't any physical issues with the machines in those inspections. >> obviously, that was not maria bartiromo. that was someone from fox news we understand that tells you the company understood people at the company who had editorial responsibility understood on december 5th there was nothing they could find from the trump campaign itself. now, let's hear maria bartiromo. this is the next night, on december 6th, 2020, interviewing rudy giuliani. here's what that conversation sounded like >> rudy, this is pretty extraordinary. and obviously, these are very, very serious charges how come the media does not report that you have this evidence i mean, we're looking at the videos of people pulling ballots out from under a table we're looking at the affidavits that you are presenting, yet, the "wall street journal" this morning, the title, trump uses rally for georgia senate candidates to push unsupported claims of voting fraud

>> so rudy on a phone call november 8th says i'm not sure we're there yet to tell you definitively what's going on the trump campaign says to fox news, we don't really have it, but theniromo goes o the air anyway it sounds like a slam dunk case. >> it's a first amendment issue in some ways because fox news is a journalistic organization. under the law, it's a public figure, you're only liable for defamation if one, the statement is false, and b, you know it's false and still say it or you're recklessly disregarding whether it's false so there's compelling evidence that fox knew. >> they knew >> they knew there's receipts the ceo of fox news, suzanne scott, said we have to stop fact checking these claims about the election because it's bad for business it's bad for ratings when we

fact check these claims and say they're not true tucker carlson used the word insane he said that these allegations are insane that didn't stop him from going on tv and broadcasting these lies to the world. >> and we have evidence that abbey grossberg's lawyer was on with alex and said they didn't turn it all over it feels like they know they're in a corner on the issue of falsity. >> the judge is on to fox's game they have already sanctioned fox for not turning over evidence they were supposed to, even more interestingly, in a defamation case, there's two things one was the issue of fault and one that they know it was false and put it out anyway. the jury doesn't even have to decide about whether it was true or false it was false he said the jury doesn't have to deliberate whether the election was rigged or that dominion was founded to support the election of hugo chavez that's not a question for the

jury the judge said the only thing the jury has to decide is whether fox knew that it was false. >> the question, i'm giving you the outgoing question here, tim miller fox news has not paid any price for this at all. their viewers are watching even more they know at least they should be able to find out somewhere on twitter that tucker carlson despises donald trump, they don't seem to care as long as the actors on fox continue to tell them what they want to hear >> look, they had a chance after january 6th to make a bet and go a different direction, get rid of the people spreading lies that they saw the threat from newsmax. and rupert murdoch said it as clear as you can say, it's not about red or blue, it's about green. they're continuing do it they did have to settle out of court with a venezuelan businessman about one of the lies about that. and this dominion, the ceo of dominion is out for blood.

and so we'll see usually in a case like this, they would have settled, but dominion is not up for settling so i think they could see some punishment here. >> there's also smartmatic, right behind them. maybe they're worried if they settle, smartmatic will pay. the point is the viewers don't care fox could pay out a billion dollars admitting they're lying to them, that they don't respects any of their viewers and i don't see any evidence that their viewers care. they just want to hear what they want to hear but that's what the evident looks like to me, anyway paul butler, tim miller. up next on "the reidout," the recent upheaval in the tennessee legislature probably seems shocking to many, but that's only because we haven't paid close enough attention to what's been going on there for decades. "the reidout" continues after this

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. tennessee representative justin pearson was officially sworn back into the stase house today. marking the end of what has been an incredibly unsuccessful, downright embarrassing political stunt by republicans and while it may have shocked the world to see not just the complete disregard for democratic values but the utterly disrespectful treatment of these two young black lawmakers in the year of our lord, 2023 it shouldn't have shocked anyone who has been paying close attention to the tennessee

republican party one reporter for politico who previously worked at the tennessean covering the state capitol says this is actually pretty on brand. recalling how the chief of staff to the former house speaker once wrote in a text message, quote, black people are idiots. another time, a member of house republican leadership referred to justin jones, then an activist, and another black lawmaker, as baboons and a member presenting a bill about sanctuary cities used the term wetback, while telling a story. that's what they were saying in 2018 and 2020. i asked justin pearson about that last night. >> the state capitol run by the republican majority is a toxic work environment i will be the first to admit that it is undergirded by white supremacy and patriarchy and has for too long operated as a place of injustice and disservice to the people of the state of tennessee. those are the things that undergird the foundations of the

institution. >> and today, new audio uncovered by the tennessee holler of a close door meeting of the republican caucus after the votes to expel the tennessee three just further proves pearson's point. nbc news has not independently verified the recording, but when asked about it, tennessee house republicans told a local abc affiliate, we have no comment about private conversations. take a listen. >> we should have went to the speaker, and behind the dais and explain why this is important. it would have given us the opportunity to not throw the rest of us under the bus i have been called a racist, a misogynist, a white supremacist morin the last two months of my life than my entire life >> joining me is a columnist for the grillo thank you for being here one of the other people on the recording said is i think now more than ever everyone should recognize that democrats are not

our friend they named three black lawmakers and pointed them out and said i have not had anyone call me a racist, saying the villains were the black lawmakers. what do you make of this given what you know of tennessee and the way it's run >> it's par for the course if you remember, before this, tennessee's legislature tried to pass a law to expel all negroes, give them a choice, to either voluntarily submit themselves -- or to leave and go back to africa literally, so they were going to expel all of the black people from the state before the civil war, and it seems as if they never stopped trying the speaker of the house represented a district that in 1900, all of the black people disappeared. nobody could figure out why. you look at the 1890 census, there were 500 black people across tennessee

1900, 2. so and nobody was -- 1960, there were two but remember, every time the people in this district went to elementary school, when they walked through the front doors, there was a mural of a lynching on the wall until 2018 so this is, when you look at that environment, this is no surprise >> we have a picture of that mu mural, because there have been a lot of questions the other person who has become -- there it is, you can see a lynching, a confederate flag and they're called the rebels. that is where per your research and reporting, that's where the current speaker's kids go to school let's talk about his district. i know historically it was a sundowntown, meaning blacks were told you better be out of here by sundown, you can't be here. is it still as seemingly racist and white supremacist and segregated as it has been? >> well, remember, they took

that mural down, the people who lived in this community were outraged and yeah, i mean, it's still less than 1% black it's still pretty white. you know, we know the speaker really doesn't kind of spend most of his time there his children go to an even whiter school right outside of nashville, one of those christian white schools, the jewish should know classic education is a dog whistle that means crt is not taught here, those people like the moms of liberty oppose crt, they say they want their children to have a classical education, which means the daughters of the confederacy stuff, the stuff that says george washington was not a slave owner. that's the stuff that they view as a classical education >> this is what they claim they

fear this is a state representative, let's listen to what he had to say. >> the left want tennessee so bad because if they get us, the southeast falls. this is not a neighborhood social gathering we are fighting for the republic of our country right now and the world is staring at us are we going to stand our ground >> based on the fact that they don't allow democrats to even put bills on the floor, the fact they do voice votes where they make up who they heard yell in the majority, and they literally won't allow democrats to do anything, and they have a supermajority, what does that mean when you hear that? we're fighting for the future of our country, the left wants tennessee so bad, if they get us, the southeast falls and it's game over. >> right, what that means is, no black people so you would think that tennessee was a really white state when you look at the makeup of the state legislature,

but it's not they have just gerrymandered the black people out they have instilled white supremacy. the speaker of the house pushed for the school board elections to be partisan they eliminated poverty based covid funds for the public schools and then gave them all that $60 million to christian based white, rich, private schools. so they're instilling white supremacy, and they fear that any notch that goes towards equality is a notch that kind of eliminates them from their power. i don't think it's necessarily about protecting the white people, because if they wanted to protect the white people, they would have passed the gun control legislation, right they would have taught one of their kids to learn actual history, but they don't want to protect white people they want to protect white power. >> yeah, and that sounds like

they're no different than florida, mississippi, we could go on and on, where this is happening across the country michael harriet, and i can under wait for that to come out. >> still ahead, senator dianne feinstein asks to be temporarily replaced on the judiciary committee amid calls to resign, as an appeals court ruling on the abortion pill ban highlights the importance of that committee's role in appointing judges ♪ ♪ - why are these so bad? - if i would've used kayak to book our car, we could have saved on our trip instead of during our trip. ughh - kayak. search one and done. i'm your overly competitive brother. check. psych! and i'm about to steal this game from you just like i stole kelly carter in high school. you got no game dude, that's a foul! and now you're ready to settle the score. game over.

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. in the twisted handmaid's tale timeline we have been living in since alito and his friends on the supreme court killed roe v. wade, medical care for american women is determined by the courts. many of them led by white male right-wing religious ideologues placed on the bench by mitch mcconnell and donald trump their going and lasting legacy to america is these judges will be around for decades. two male trump appointees from the conservative fifth circuit court of appeals decided us little ladies can have access to the abortion pillmifepristone, but on their terms the third judge on the court, a female george w. bush appointee, said she would have temporarily blocked the ruling in full, but you know, supermajority.

the department of justice is appealing the decision to the alito court, which already told us what they think of women's reproductive rights. the reversal of roe has led state-level republicans to pass even more restrictive laws, like florida, where just today, the legislature passed a six-week abortion ban, which ron desantis says he will sign. in short, judges matter. and judicial confirmations have been one of president biden's top priorities he's done a pretty good job, appointing a diverse slate of judges however, the senate judiciary committee where these judges are nominated, has been delayed in moving ahead because of the absence of one of its democratic members, california's dianne feinstein. she's been sidelined since february, when she developed shingles last night, amid calls for her to resign, the senior senator from california issued this statement, quote, my return to washington has been delayed due to continued complications related to my diagnosis. i remain committed to the job and will continue to work from

home in san francisco. unquote. she asked senate majority leader chuck schumer to temporarily replace her on the committee now, nbc news is reporting that republicans, however, may refuse to play ball and if they do, a republican senator on the judiciary committee said the party's willingness to consent would depend on who democrats put forward. almost on cue, minority leader mcconnell announced he would be back in the senate next week following his own health issues. joining me now is barbara boxer, former senator from california senator, i have to tell you, this is giving me ruth bader ginsburg vibes the senator is 89 years old. she is one of the two most senior members of the united states senate, chuck grassley and she were born in 1933. she has been a dynamic, historic senator, the assault weapons ban we had for a while because of her, so she has a fantastic legacy but it feels like she's harming now.

by refusing to resign. your thoughts. >> i'm very worried about her. i'm very worried about the situation in the united states senate you know, joy, it's very, very hard to leave a job that you love i know because i did it. you know, whether you're a news anchor or you're a doctor or a united states senator, it's very hard but the difference between a news anchor and a doctor, they can get a substitute in there. you can't do it in the senate. so i think it is really time for my dear friend, who i made history with, and who i respect and has nothing left to prove in terms of her legacy, i think she needs to surround herself with the people who love her the most, with her doctors, with some colleagues that she trusts, and figure this out. you can work from home to a degree but if you're not on the senate floor, you can't vote.

and dick durbin has already stated it's really impossible in the committee, and the republicans, i'm not shocked at their reaction, but they play the hardest hardball the meanest hardball so i'm very concerned about the situation. >> right i mean, the reporting, there are two pieces of reporting that are disturbing piece number one, reporting from politico that dianne feinstein might never return she might stay in california the second piece is the demands that we're seeing from republicans, they're saying, ha, we've got her. you know mitch mcconnell's whole dream is to control all of the federal courts if they can they're now hinting they would demand kyrsten sinema be the replacement. she's called her colleagues old jell-o eating old men. she's been disdainful of the party, they're saying that's the only person they would accept and there has to be a full vote of the senate to replace her on the committee. the republicans literally can stop the replacement unless they

get everything they want there doesn't seem to be a rationale for her to do anything other than resign the seat and allow the governor of california to replace her with a senator who can actually vote. we have seen what these judges can do to women and what they're doing. i don't understand how her conscience lets her stay in. i don't understand it. >> well, i'm not giving up on her decision making at this point because she has said she would step away from judiciary if the republicans play games with it, which looks like they are, in the days when i was there, that would never happen never. no party would do that nothing surprises me they are playing their worst hardball with this, and as you say, they're using this to force the hand of the democrats to not put decent good judges up there. i want to point out that this judge, who did this, this angry, cruel man, that's what i think,

toward women, he's a danger to women, he didn't get one democratic vote. and it says to me the one thing i hope comes out of this, besides senator feinstein taking a hard look at the situation as it really is, is people understand and connect the dots between their daily lives, getting a drug they need, women are going to have abortions. i was there before roe women died and still, they did self-inflicted abortions so here's the thing. one judge can wreak havoc. and connecting the dots between who sits in the senate, okay, who is president, and who sits in the judiciary, we have to connect the dots for people. people say, oh, i don't want to vote they're all alike. the democrats, republicans, they're this, they're that you know what? no no two people are alike. and when it comes to the

judiciary, we're losing our rights every single minute and when this -- the supremes, got help us but i'm helpful because big pharma hates this decision i'm hopeful some of them have taken some of the supremes on trips. >> we shall see. i'm just going to say this, and i'll leave it here speaking pelosi, who is now speaker emeritus, demonstrated to the world how you exercise your power by stepping aside and being involved and choosing your own successor. she will go down as the greatest speaker in history, i think in part because of the way she stepped aside and passed the torch to younger leadership. that is real power and i hope that somebody can go and have a conversation with dianne feinstein, not to harm her own legacy by refusing to give up a seat that is really owned by the 40 million people of california, not by any individual politician. former senator barbara boxer,

thank you for being here much appreciated thank you. coming up next, today's race of a 21-year-old suspected of sharing classified documents on discord highlights the murky and potentially dangerous nature of this increasingly popur lasocial hub. we'll be right back. a blood test helped show my asthma is driven by eosinophils, which nucala helps reduce. nucala is a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. nucala is not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your asthma specialist about a nunormal with nucala.

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oh booking.com, ♪ i'm going to somewhere, anywhere. ♪ ♪ a beach house, a treehouse, ♪ ♪ honestly i don't care ♪ find the perfect vacation rental for you booking.com, booking. yeah. thanks to social media, there's a range of sites where people can join online communities. but unless you're an avid gamer or a member of gen z, you

probably aren't foulard with discord, a social media and messaging platform founded in 2015, as "the new york times" wrote, it has exploded into the main stream. in 2021, discord had more than 150 million active users each month, up from 56 million in 2019 it's not just for gamers or young people meeting friends it's also a space where people are going down rabbit holes of extremism and violence, sharing their intentions and finding like-minded people in the second half of 2020, discord deleaded thousands of extremist communities including the far right, the violent antigump boogaloo movement, and qanon conspiracy theories. discord has a zero tolerance policy toward extremism, but it hasn't stopped extremists from using it white supremacists used it to organize the unite the right

rally. the racist who shot and killed ten people at a grocery store in buffalo detailed his plans on discord, posting documents from the avowed racist who killed 51 muslims in attacks on mosques in new zealand in 2019, and other messages made his intentions clear. it's time to stop blank posting and time to make a real life effort, blank post i will carry out an attack the suspect who killed seven people at a fourth of july parade in highland park, illinois, also had his own discord server, or so-called fans and people who knew him would chat and share posts he made of himself. of course, discord is not alone in becoming a breeding ground for online extremism and violence the buffalo shooter live streamed on another platform, twitch, and posted motives on 4t 4chan, and the gunman in uvalde, texas, posted on a social media networking app popular with young folks. it's discord now at the center

of one of the largest military and intelligence breaches in decades, after an anonymous member posted documents on one of its servers a blockbuster report in "the washington post" identified the poster as a young charismatic gun enthusiast who shared the documents with posters united by their love of guns and god it grew from there and today we found out the alleged pentagon leaker's identity. that's coming up after the break.

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secret because i still care fo him like he's a family member. >> he's not a russian operative, a ukrainian operative. i will go as far as to say he' not on the wrong side of the world, a young charismatic man who loved in nature, god, wh loved shooting guns and racing cars >> the washington post interviewed a member of th online community on the social media platform discord about the man he knew as og, who was responsible for the massiv leak of classified pentago documents, including sensitive u.s. military secrets about th war in ukraine today, we learned who og is. attorney general merrick garland announced the arrest o 21-year-old jack teixeira, a massachusetts air national guardsmen in connection with a justice department investigation into how the classified pentagon document made their way online. the new york times first identified teixeira, noting he oversaw a private online group where about 20 to 30 people, mostly young men and teenagers

came together over a share love of guns, racist onlin memes, and video games where months ago a use uploaded hundreds of pages o intelligence briefings into th group. joining me now is john brennan former cia director and msnb senior national security analyst, along with ed collins nbc news senior reporter thank you both for being here. doctor brandon, i want to star with you tell us the damage here from this release >> i think there's been quite bit of damage. i know my former colleague right now are trying to clea up the message been created by these unauthorized exposures the concern is the compromis of sources and methods tha provide the intelligence community and policy maker insights into what's going o around the world, especially i ukraine. therefore, the public releas of these documents will give our adversaries in the ability to shut off the sources of information, the human asset or technical systems what they are trying to do i mitigate the damage right, now work with allies and partners, be sure we are taking the step

necessary to, again, stem th flow of this information to th public domain. >> the question i had when i first heard this was, how is i possible for 21-year-old air national guardsmen to have access to this what's going on in terms of th way that we secure our nationa secrets? trump took them home and put them under his bed this kid was able to put the on his discord to entertain hi friends. it doesn't seem like we ar securing stuff too well. >> i am shocked. a junior member of the military, the massachusetts air national guard had access to this strategic, sensitive intelligence something is very wrong here i don't know whether he uses technical skills i think he was involved in i.t., to gain unauthorized access. even if you have access to the top secret systems, the join worldwide intelligence communications system, you are not supposed to have access to information you don't need therefore, i think it is not just this young individual who's been arrested who's in trouble. i think there are other people

who will have a lot of explaining to do about why thi information was disseminated s widely and why he had th ability to download this information as a very junior member of the massachusetts ai national guard >> ben, let me go to you unlike snowden or manning, som of these previous ones, this person did not seem to b ideological or a winner who is trying to help the u.s. versus russia this person seems like he wa entertaining his fans on discord. talk a little bit about thes platforms and how they are being used and who they ar attracting >> of course i want to say my colleague spencer ackerman, he had a blo post about this today saying this is the first edge lor leaker this is a guy who has no large -- larger point he is doing this to make bette friends with people, 20 to 3 person group of people playing video games on the interne together that's really what happene here i want to give you a quick

chain of custody here. it's interesting he wasn't a very small group o discord users. discord is like slack, if yo have that in an office, or microsoft teams or something it's almost exactly like that. from there, people took thos documents he was sharing wit his friends to get what they call clout in those spaces t another discord. also a private discord there was a person from that discord that took that to minecraft discord with lots of people in it minecraft is another video game this is pretty much al children once it was there, they brough it over to 4chan somebody had altered a bunch o the documents and that upped ukrainian casualties from th original documents to 4chan, then to telegram that's where it peaked the interest of u.s. - american interests again, this started so small this is 20, 30 people talkin about video games in a space this guy was trying to impress his friends. at the end of the day, i

becomes this massive nationa security issue >> you think about how many -- discord, twitch, telegram, steam, roadblocks, fortune things that most of the people watching have never heard of it does seem like there is a combination of people who ar lonely, gun enthusiasms, far right wing christian, all th sort of people on their own in little groups where they creat their own fan bases. this is now something i'm no sure the intelligence communit is ready to deal with, ben it seems like they need to catch up real quick. >> we are at the start o something. when we say it's not ideological, i don't mean it's not ideological in the sense that the people who were aroun did not have ideology. they absolutely did. when he was shooting those games in a video he posted according to the washingto post, he was yelling racia slurs. these are people who are not necessarily absent of politics the politics happened to b pretty extreme, right? the smaller groups you get, th

more private you get in thes spaces, that's what is happening. we are at the start of something, it's going to kee happening. >> dr. brennan, he has the og, he is 21 the other people in this group of teenagers is the intelligence communit ready to deal with this, between the mass shootings tha used to these platforms wher they launch this and put their manifestos, and now threats to national security, are we read for this >> the law enforcement community and intelligence community better be. these chat rooms, these forums the dark web, these enclaves have served extremist purposes including terrorists they've been able to explain the opportunities that exist i that web what we see right now is how these small chat rooms, youn americans and teenagers an others can be an outlet for th unauthorized disclosures a ver sensitive secrets from the intelligence community >> ben, they are als completely out of the eyeballs

of even their parents, let alone -- these are young people who are free to act. they seem to be also developin extremist ideologies together. >> this kid was in a militar family, right? he probably should've know better about this specific stuff. he probably thought it was a really small space with 20 and 30 people and. it at the start it, is the internet expands really quickl once stuff gets out. that's what happened here. >> the threat to nationa security israel, dr. brennan because we are literally supporting ukraine in a wa against russia who is also attacking us through the digital realm. >> absolutely. that's why there is such a ris in terms of what he did and he intentionally violated his security obligations irrespective of his age, h should've known better, he did know better, but he decided to push this out. he will be held accountabl for. >> he will find out the real world jail and a whole twitter world that you are doing, tw different things and john brennan, ben collins, thank you. that is tonight's read out all in with chris hayes starts