terms of the oath he took. what do you see about th foreign aspect of it >> in that group he was, in 25 or so folks, he knew there wer russian nationals and ukrainia nationals in that group. it wasn't just americans i that 25% discord group he wa helping lead using those classified documents again leadership and authority >> it strikes me as a very 202 story of someone leaking - a 21-year-old leaking highly sensitive documents of the war in ukraine for clout among his acolytes in a discord gaming channel. jamil jaffer, like you ver much >> thanks, chris that's all in on this thursday night. alex wagner's tonight starts right now. good evening, alex >> you are talking about someone who's taking classifie documents and showing them t people just to make himsel look at? >> yeah.

>> who are you really talkin about? is there someone else that w know like that i'm just asking. >> maybe if he had a restaurant, he would put up classified folders in his restaurant or show them where the nuclear ma is >> maybe there's nuclear maps, man. nobody gets to be promptin like a nuclear map chris, thank you thank you as always, my friend and thanks to at-home fo joining us this evening. >> donald trump's questionable fundraising tactics are no exactly a new thing. and i made it that it broke. after all, he's turned his manhattan indictment into moneymaking juggernaut to the tune of $12 million plus looks like he turned his las days in office into a cash bonanza while at the same time trying to subvert democracy. it was pretty ambitious. i mean, some people might just try to steal an election and leave it there

but not donald trump the second of january 6t hearing in congress back i june representative low zo lofgren -- she called it the -- president trump used the lie he told to raise millions of dollars from the america people >> throughout the committee' investigation, he foun evidence of the trump campaign and it's mrs. surrogates misle donors as to where their funds would go and what they would b used for, so not only was ther the big lie. there is the big rip off >> well now, according to th washington post, mr. trump's cash calls have caught the attention of special counsel jack smith the post reports that smith ha fired off a slew of subpoena in recent weeks, all as part o his january 6th investigatio looking to determine if former president president donald trump or his advisor scammed donors by using false claims

about voter fraud to raise money. he notes, special counse prosecutors are said to be interested in whether anyone - fundraising operation violated wire fraud laws, which make it illegal to make fals representations over email t swindle people out of money. on this show, last night, we played new audio of trum advisers discussing the fact that they did not know of an fraud with voting machines while at the same time the president and his allies wer railing about election fraud and using those claims o election fraud to raise over $200 million in the period between the 2020 election loss and trump's eventual exit from office this reporting from th washington post is a big dea here, because it marks a new chapter of the doj's investigation, which is no apparently not only folks on trump's efforts to overturn th election, but is also lookin into trump's apparent grif alongside that could have just left it at stealing the election -- but not donald trump

the recent flurry of subpoenas would seem to indicate a special counselor smith is doing anything but winding dow that investigation today, trump's director of national intelligence, joh ratcliffe, testified before th january 6th grand jury i washington d.c.. federal investigators migh want to talk to ratcliffe about, among other things conversations he had wit donald trump in which th former president pressed ratcliffe to investigate conspiracy theories regardin voting machines. now trump had tried an ultimately failed to block ratcliffe from testifying. and radcliff is part of a -- before - trump advisor and speech write stephen miller the washington post also reports that smith's other criminal investigation int trump's handling of classified documents found at mar-a-lag -- well, that is coming right along. but that is not actually the legal headache that donald trump is focused on today. today, trump was deposed for a

second time in the new yor state attorney general sweeping civil fraud lawsuit in september, new york a.g laetitia james filed a massive 250 million dollar civil fraud lawsuit, accusing trump, his adult children, and hi organization of staggering fraud, for over valuing th assets by billions trump, before that depositio -- he made sure this morning to call a.g. james a racist because that appears to be his main line of defense here. and since he arrived at th a.g.'s office, he was greete with chance of, new york hates you. and then he spent nearly the entire day behind closed doors staying inside for roughly eight hours. that is nearly double th amount of time spent there during his first depositio back in august a spokesperson for the new yor a.g.'s office said trump spoke a lot, which was quite different from the last time h was deposed. just two days after the fb searched trump's florida hom for classified documents, trum

set for a deposition where h invoked the fifth amendmen nearly 450 times >> i respectfully declined t answer the questions under the rights and privileges afforded to every citizen under the united states constitution this will be my answer to an further questions. >> you are currently the president of the trump organization is that correct? >> yes, it is. >> - contained false and misleading statements is that correct? >> same answer >> in preparing the 2019 statement of financial condition, mr. weisselberg and mr. mcconney worked at you direction and -- statement of financial condition by employing false and misleading - >> same answer >> you heard allen weisselberg mention there, donald trump' longtime and now former chie financial officer of the trump organization mr. weisselberg is currently

imprisoned over at riker island for his involvement i the trump organization's tax fraud's scheme, and he's scheduled to be released i just six days from now we know that mr. weisselberg recently changed up his lega team after reports that th manhattan d.a.'s office may be looking to get weisselberg's cooperation in its fraud cas by pressuring weisselberg with potentially more charges and more prison time now, laetitia james lawsui seeks to shut down at leas some of trump's businesses it could be catastrophic for trump. the suit is expected to go t trial later in october and while this is a civil trial, over on the criminal side, manhattan district attorne alvin bragg is still looking into some of the very same allegations. joining us now is suzanne craig, pulitzer prize-winning investigative reporter for the new york times, and joyce vance, former district attorney for the northern district of alabama. joyce, let me start with you i terms of the legal implication

today of the fact that trump i speaking in his deposition do you see anythin particularly meaningful in that? >> so, it's always a challenge when you have a client like th former president, who i thin lawyers despair of having an client control over him, and h answers questions. what will happen now is th attorney generals office wil comb through the transcript. they will see if anything that the former president has sai assists their case but because this is a civi proceeding, they are also free to share this deposition wit folks like alvin bragg, who ma be looking potentially a criminal charges it's tough to figure why trump's lawyers would have let him go in and answer questions for more than seven hours. >> yeah, seven hours is a long time, susanne craig. and as joyce rightly points out, i'm sure alvin bragg i interested in what - the a.g. is doing and the frau investigation that we here is

live issue over in the d.a.' office >> right i think he's very interested i it i think a lot of people righ now are very focused on what alvin bragg is doing the, hush money payment. but there's a very separat case going on into the valuations that tish james i looking at we don't know exactly wher that is at but it was very live and wel when cy vance was in charge of that office a year or so ago and there's no reason to believe that it's been put off i believe right now it's on th back burner. but if i had to make educate guess about what - allen weisselberg is in rikers and he is facing separat criminal jeopardy on a cas that is actually stems out o the attorney general's case. and that is some's statement that he made to zurich and he indicated to them a some point in conversation where there were - appraisals he was giving had actually been backed up, the documents that they were mabry misrepresented, gave them fals

information, which could get him in a lot of trouble. that's trouble called frau over 1 million dollars and he could actually do som hard time for that if that goe to trial and he's found guilty of it so i think they are tryin to apply pressure on him there to get him to cooperate on potential criminal case that alvin bragg could put forward, and maybe allen weisselber could be able to get himself out of some trouble or not i he cooperates. >> i am always bringing up allen weisselberg. -- you are here and i'm sort of the obsessed with this as th missing link in all. this >> -- hush money case -- yeah, yeah - >> directly implicated in th hush money payments -- >> right, and he did not com forward on the grand jury, i'm surmising -- think that he could be a witness in that as well. i think allen weisselberg woul be - most people in this country is a lauded a lot of decisions to make about how he's going to g forward. i can't imagine he's in his 70

now that the idea of potentially spending what coul be the rest of his life in jai for essentially protecting donald trump - he's got to decide what he i doing. and there's a kind of th pressure points on him >> and he could be the witness that these prosecutors - i mean, michael cohen is obviously a star witness but a lot of people have cas aspersions on his -- just using him as a centra voice for the prosecution. weisselberg really is th puppeteer in terms of th financial dealings of the trum organization it would be invaluable to alvi bragg's case and any other cas -- >> i think keep thinking, with allen weisselberg, - other avenues he could open up where we think of the-limite where he could help with the hush money payment there could be other ways that we have probably - imagine that he could help he's a keeper of the secrets o the trump organization in term of all the things that are now in - >> joyce vance, from a legal perspective, for the layman, h

is getting out of rikers in matter of days he has changed representation. there is a lot that is being read into why he would b changing his counsel at this juncture from your experience, given al that looms over him, after eve he gets out of rikers, what ar the implications of change i counsel at a juncture like this? the read anything into it? >> you know, there's been some reporting that suggests that the new legal team that he's now connected himself with i even more aligned with the former president and that on of the reasons he walked awa from the prior representatio is because there's a little bi too much conversation abou cooperation. we don't know for certain that that's accurate. a lot of this involves reading tea leaves but one of the endurin mysteries of every investigation into trump has been the lack of people who ar willing to cooperate i can tell you that in 25 year as a federal prosecutor, whe

you look someone in the eye an tell them that they can be a witness or a defendant, they tend to take that very seriously. and many times you will end up with cooperation when you are looking at a ce of a corporation corporation and you have cfos -- maybe over a period of years - who have been involved in th alleged fraud, those peopl will very often want t cooperate to minimize their ow exposure to prison so, now we have alle weisselberg, who spent som time in rikers, who could be looking at spending a lot more time in prison if there's ever a moment where he's highly motivated, it' here but he was persistently refuse to cooperate overtime. >> yeah, and so you know who h is as a character in the trump universe he's been intensely loyal to the trump organization he worked for donald trump's father does it rain hello to you when folks suggest that maybe thi is just because he is so loyal to donald trump? >> i think he is incredibl loyal. i also think there's financial

-- >> incentive >> right now the trump organization is paying his legal fees and i've also paid him handsomely over years and year and years, up to - through the trial. i just don't think you can know, though i just think it's a real a noble -- i think it perplexes a lot o people and a lot of people think abou it because you can just imagin this man sitting in rikers and facing - >> the rest of his life in jai -- >> i think - >> or pass - >> - incredibly loyal to. and just also, i think, imagin -- allen weisselberg would have t admit about himself if h turned, i think, is anothe thing that is -- this is just such a huma decision >> yeah, a deeply human -- unemotional decision >> decision -- >> i do want to talk, becaus we talk about potential allege grift and fraud, joyce vance the special counsel' investigation into trump's fundraising in and aroun january 6th and his claims of stolen election -- as you see this, the legal implications of jack smith

broadening that investigation, not just to the watch trump di to potentially overthrow a election and subvert democracy but potentially fund-raise off of it -- which, i've got to say, let' not lose sight of the fact o how ambitious that is, not jus to steal the election, but t potentially raise money off of it what legal peril does that add to the case here in terms of donald trump's exposure? >> well, it adds a lot wire fraud is sort of a -- crime for federal prosecutor and it carries a maximum 2 year penalty so it's serious business it does something really important if jack smith is abl to make it out, and perhap even if he doesn't charge it and that is to help explain motive because prosecutors don't have to prove a motive when you are looking at the overall crimina activity that someone is charged with motive is very rarely an element. and it wouldn't be here. but motive satisfies jurie curiosity. a lot of time, juries want t

understand, why did someone do something that just was so clearly criminal that makes no sense? when you learn that there is a financial motive to continue perpetrating the big lie eve when it's clear that it stil is a lie, that gives a jury higher comfort level and i think in the door of a - process it makes it easier - the wire fraud charge involves creating a scheme where yo intend to defraud people wit false information. and you can do it, as you've mentioned, via email but it can also involve radi or television, lots of great options here for jack smith to pursue, because we know trum was trying to get people t continue to give him money on variety of different media i order for him to be able to, a he said, pursue a fair outcome in the election, when in fact, he knew he had lost. it's a very compelling place >> it sounds like, from th post reporting, susanne, tha investigators may be pursuing strategy similar to the on

used to charge steve bannon in his build the wall grift >> yeah. >> what is so disturbing a unusual in all this is the fac that so much of the trum criminal action comes back t making money it's just this desire to profi off of everything and anything apparently >> remember bannon got pardo for that and now he's facing another batch of state court - but i just have to go back t it and that time that after the election between january 6th - you are getting bombarded. i get gun barred it on a regular basis with donald trump, fundraisin emails and that was exceptional and i don't know if yo remember it to - >> yes >> it was just email after email after email. there was stories, in the ne york times, there was a grea one, when people were they - charged the credit card, i guess, against - >> - charge in subsequent month after -- >> and it's going to b interesting to see - feints on that just in terms o

he's going in there and he's going to - what are the emails say, wit their legal counsel saying they're -- fact-checker's saying don't sa it he's going to be able to get s much information together, hopefully. >> we played some of it on the show last night. >> yeah. >> trump officials literally saying there's no there ther when it comes to the - potentially fraudulent - results. it goes on and on. susanne craig, joyce vance, it is great to have you both on the show thanks for your time tonight coming up, the fallout fro trump's family separatio policy continues there are still thousands of children without their parents and some of them are america citizens but next - do you like woke free beer you can buy. comedian and former u.s. senator al franken will join m to take a look at red states

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>> who is musician kid roc last week and a maga hat literally shooting 30 racks of bud light beer with semiautomatic rifle. in case you missed this week's right-wing culture war conservatives are freaking out that bud light sponsored an ad featuring transgende influencer dylan mulvaney. amazingly, and kind of impossibly, it gets worse. >> america's been drinking bee from a company that doesn' even know which restaurant t use. that's why i created conservative - ultra light when a recent woke free beer. >> stop giving money to woke corporations that hate our values >> yeah, yeah. totally. don't you hate when there' woke in your beer? for now, just $20, plu shipping and handling, you can own a -- with a six year of woke free beer and the thing is, this i

everything now you can buy six dollar beers bars of woke free chocolate, o you can pay extra fo conservative cell phone servic that's really just re-packaged regular cell phone service fro carriers like t-mobile, just t own the libs conservatives are creating their own little conservativ world for themselves and it's funny, or sort of sad funny, when it's stuff lik beer and chocolate and it' clearly all just a big hustle. but it does not stop there because red states are now creating a very differen america. today, florida's legislature passed a ban on most abortions after six weeks. governor desantis has said h will already signed that int law, despite the fact that pol shows 75% of florida residents and even 61% of florid republicans oppose a six-wee ban. that will bring the tally to 1 states with full abortion bans plus florida and georgia wit their six-week bands that's despite the fact that six in ten americans believe that abortion should be lega in most cases. and year's legislative session

14 republican controlled state have passed some sort of ant lgbtq rights law it also all means that you lived experience as an american, what kind of civil rights yo have, basically depends on who runs your state. in tennessee today, stat representatives justin pearson was sworn back into the stat legislature after pearson an another black democrat wer expelled by th republican-controlled house fo speaking out for gun safet reform republicans basically took awa the representation of 130,00 tennesseeans because they di not like that they wer protesting for reforms after a mass shooting. after the civil rights gains o the 1960s and 70s and th social progress of the first part of this millennium, republicans are taking it upon themselves to use any mean necessary, whether democrati or not, to reverse course. joining us now is al franken former senator from minnesota, fresh off hosting the dail show and hosting the al franke

podcast. senator franken, it's great to see you. -- >> great to be here. >> - i'll just ask you, do you like regular beer or woke free beer >> both. it depends on which one is happier. -- what amazes me are these state passing the six-week laws, lik in florida - and the people don't want it there. and what was interesting is, before dobbs - >> yeah. >> this was a one party issue. this was a republicans issue >> they would vote on it >> they would vote on it these are one issue people now, after dobbs, they there are a lot of one issue peopl the other way, in fact, mayb more and they include republicans

as you were saying but also there's a lot o democratic young people an women and men. and men. and that's going to be there one issue. and in some cases it will be just a lot of people's issue issue. just be an issue - >> yeah. clearly, a changing the realit of offer elections and midterm elections. dobbs has electrify th american public. >> yeah. if you think about the nex election, it's not an off year election - >> no. >> - or electing judges >> yeah. >> and if you are electing federal judges, this does no play well in michigan. it does not play well in wisconsin, as we saw in th supreme court vote there it does not play well in minnesota. does not play well i pennsylvania this is reelecting the blu wall >> yeah, and i get that.

you are seeing the tangibl results of this position tha republicans and stake out fo themselves but it's not deemed thei enthusiasm that's what i think has been s confounding, right it's really clear that abortio is a terrible issue fo republicans because they are a odds with the american public. and yet today, ron desantis, who has aspirations -- >> he wants the nomination >> right they keep doing it -- there's also the human question there are people who nee access to reproductive choic all across the country who are not going to get it. there may be people who die in the course of -- abortions, right >> he wants the nominations. he doesn't care about -- >> actually winning? >> he doesn't care about people that's - >> - surprising there was a day and age when republicans would look and say we've got to dial it back on this they are full steam ahead on this instead and to me it seems like it coincides with an increasingly aggressive republican part that is ready to employ an tactic it wants just to a, own the libs, cement party power

and sort of steak its primac culturally, which is ver different than sort of tactical, strategic game plan that use to dictate a lot of the party' motives. >> to me, it's a losin strategy, clearly a losing strategy and again, they're alienatin people who, okay, did no really care about abortion tha much, because they alway assumed roe would not be overturned >> yeah. >> as soon as it was, that became the number one issue fo a lot of those people. and for a lot of other people, it became a big issue. they got their own issue that's like guns guns is less becoming a single issue with people who really care about their guns and vote for guns there's people - more and more people i look at this and going, this i ridiculous we have got to do somethin

about background checks. come on. >> do you worry at all, as someone who used to serve in the senate - again, setting aside the sor of political stakes of all thi -- in terms of what all of this increasingly aggressiv legislating and anti-democrati maneuvering is doing to th population in terms of you hav folks who may be liberal-leaning democrat living in red states increasingly find themselves i a hostile environment. and maybe the inverse is tru for people living who ar conservatives living in blue states and does it feel to you like w are eventually sorting ourselves into deeper blue and deeper red states because yo look at kid rock who is so incensed over a bud light ad that he has to shoot up with a semiautomatic rifle cans of bu light. this person does not want to live in new york city, right in the same way that you are a trans person that finds hersel in florida, maybe you ar thinking, now is the time to get out. i just wonder what that does t

an american public tha increasingly does not share th same values or facts and increasingly the same zip code >> yeah, we are doing nothin in bringing people together. we are just always dividin people and we are getting mor separate we are moving more in ou different areas, red or blue and this has been happening fo quite awhile, hasn't it? >> do you think it's getting worse? >> yeah, it seems to be. it does. yeah >> and i'm not trying to draw false equivalence. because i don't know that this same aggression -- it is not -- the embrace of anti-democratic -- >> you don't want to do a fals equivalence between crazy -- excuse me. >> - yeah >> kicking those two guys out, which is crazy. or you elect supreme court justice in wisconsin and

suddenly, get republicans in the state legislature ar talking about, we could recall her. we could recall her before she is sworn in. >> yes, exactly. that's not how democracy works >> boy, is it not. and it looks kind of like what it is. which is crazy and stupid -- >> - it is happening. it continues to happen >> and in georgia, where the have been talking about gettin rid of fani willis >> - they could pass a law wher they could recall prosecutor and you will see what happen and in georgia if and when she makes a charging decision on donald trump and his efforts t subvert the 2020 election. it's interesting tha subverting democracy is me with a potential plan to subvert democracy. >> there's just an escalatio in how far gone the republican party -- i mean, when they call january 6th a legitimate political discourse, i mean, it's clos

to parody. but it's not because it's not funny >> yeah, that is the fact. from one funny person to and not funny person, it was not funny. al franken, it's good to see you sir. >> - not funny. i mean, that's a compliment? >> i don't think so. >> [laughter >> we have still more ahea this evening, including th latest on new court rulings an how they are affecting acces to the most commonly use medication abortion pill the -- could go into effect soon. but first, trump ended t political pressure and rescinded the family separatio policy back in 2018. but today we are still learnin about the extent of the chao created. that is just ahead ♪♪ allergies don't have to be scary. (screaming) defeat allergy headaches fast with new flonase headache and allergy relief!

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benefits. payroll. compliance. trinet. people matter. trump administration, severa things probably come to mind but it's zero tolerance family separation policy provokes a fairly specific indelibl image. hundreds of children, some a young as infants, in large metal cages with only foil sheets for buying kits blanket after being taken from their parents. the administration's rationale

that by intensely breaking these families apart it woul discourage people from attempting to cross th southern border. those images lead to outrage both here and abroad, an intense political backlash forced the trump administratio to rescind that policy just few months after it wa formally enacted after a federal judge ordere the government to reunite th families, we learned that abou 5500 children were taken fro their parents. and that reunification process has been a disaster. some separations have lasted weeks. some of them have lasted years and to this day, there are still children who remai unaccounted for. but we learned this week thanks to a new york times report, which cites lawyers an advocates working with the government to reunite some families - we learned that as many as 100 of those children who were separated from their parents are united states citizens unlike foreign born children were taken to federal shelters and entered into federal databases, many of these u.s born children were placed an

state foster care systems, and it was left up to state family courts to decide how to handle the cases, which has in turn led to a patchwork of record that the government is now trying to sift through to find these kids when immigration advocate told the times that, while she know of 226 american children sent child protective services in california, records fo children sent to foster care i arizona and new mexico and texas do not exist so, u.s. citizens -- children - essentially lost by their ow government at the direction of their own government - the aclu has an ongoing clas action lawsuit seeking damages for the trauma these familie have endured as the result o the trump era policy the lawyer leading that case immigration advocates have since asked that u.s. foreig children that we are now jus finding out about -- that they be included. this is all coming as the bide administration plans to rescin another trump era emigration

policy next month. that policy, witches calle title 42, has allowed border agents to turn away migrants ostensibly to prevent th spread of covid-19 the appalling confidence consequences of the trum administration's actions o immigration are something th current administration mus russia grapple with as a reportedly considers bringin back family detentions t combat a possible uptick in th number of asylum seekers arriving at the southern borde when title 42 winds down stay tuned when we come back, as th future of abortion medicatio remains uncertain, florida i on track to make abortio access even harder to -- [interpreter [interpreter two pills relieve allergy headache pain? and the congestion that causes it! flonase headache and allergy relief. psst! psst! all good! weeds... they have you surrounded. take your lawn back with scotts turf builder triple action! gets three jobs done at once - kills weeds. prevents crabgrass. and keeps it growing strong. get a bag of scotts triple action today,

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>> - >> what do we do - >> dozens of protester gathered at florida state hous today in tallahassee a lawmakers debated a bill tha would ban abortions in the state after six weeks of pregnancy with few exceptions. now six weeks is well before many people know they're pregnant it's also not popular policy i the state of florida a recent university of north florida poll showed 75% of respondents from both politica parties opposed a six-week ban that is why protesters won the house chamber today, was if yo have to give a debate over the bill and at another poin throwing scraps of paper on to the house floor. so most people in florida do not want this ban. but in today, as we mentioned,

in the house, which has republican supermajority passed the measure 70 to 40. now the bill heads to governor ron desantis, who is expecte to sign it once that happens, the south which is already mostly an abortion desert, will become even more restrictive. and it is not just the south access to abortion pills, whic are used in more than half o abortions in this country -- that access is now up in the air nationwide because of that case originating in texas. late last night, a three judge panel on the fifth circuit court of appeals made decision that restricts th availability of mifepristone one of the pills used in medication abortion, and i restricts it across the u.s. now the fifth circuit is not allowing the fda's approval of mifepristone to be entirel thrown out by that is rolling back recent changes the fda made to th drugs access, and in effect, patients will no longer be abl to get mifepristone through th mail they will have to make multipl in person doctor visit instead. and they now only have up to seven weeks to acces

mifepristone, which is three weeks less than before and again, that's before som people - may be many people - know they are even pregnant. earlier today, the justice department promised to take th fight over it mifepristone all the way to the supreme court but unless the court weighs in soon, it's thursday, these major restrictions on abortion medications will go into effec as this friday - as in tomorrow - turns to saturday. in the meantime, a different federal judge in washingto state today is telling the fda to do exactly the opposite o all of this, reiterating a order he issued last week th judge told the fda to make absolutely no changes to the availability of mifepristone at least in the 17 state involved in the lawsuit -- before his court so, what is the fda do with al this and when should we expec scotus to weigh in joining us now is the person with all of the answers. nbc news senior lega correspondent, laura jarrett laura, i need you in this hour first help me understand wha

happens. two judges, different states one in washington, one in texa saying the opposite thing. how does this get resolved >> normally it would go to the supreme court and the suprem court would have something t say to the lower courts to giv some guidance about how to reconcile that conflict. the only thing is the case doe not live in the supreme cour just yet because the justice department has not actuall submitted their brief an neither has the pill manufacturer now we can expected any moment they could do tonight. they can do to more. but as you mentioned, the cloc is ticking on this >> yeah. >> so, it's a little surprisin given the time crunch that the are in, the level of urgency you might expect to see. obviously, the attorney genera came out today with a strong statement about it, but that was hours ago. and so we are still checking o that brief and it just not in yet but the moment it is in th supreme court, and you could see some action pretty quickly and so let's assume for th minute that the department put it in tomorrow you could see a supreme cour ruling probably just a administrativestate, which would essentially pu everything on pause for minute

just a cooling-off period to wipe away this saturda deadline, if you will -- you might see that stay as soo as tomorrow. >> okay. let's unpack the ruling in the fifth circuit. >> yeah. >> because the anti choice movement is claiming this as a victory. i think some people might say, well, mifepristone is stil available. isn't that actually a victor for people who are advocates o choice it seems like once you actuall get down to brass tacks, it is not a good ruling at all on lot of - for a number of reasons, for people who are advocates o folks having reproductiv choice >> the language in the opinion is striking, especially as i relates to standing, which i the legal right to sue i court. and on that score, the fifth circuit panel -- to trump appointees and th george w. bush appointee - pound for pound are in the plaintiffs camp here and remember, this case is brought by advocacy groups and for doctors. it is not brought by women who say they were armed by mifepristone it's not even brought by doctors who say they prescribe

mifepristone it's brought by doctors who sa they when they were in the emergency room, they cam across women who had bad effects, and therefore, in the future, they may somewhere a some point, encounter some woman who -- >> theoretically - >> and so that, typically, i seen as quite speculative, and not enough to get into federal court. instead, the fifth circuit has had, that's just fine. and that's a view of standin that perhaps - they don't know, perhaps - perhaps the supreme court ma decide it does not work fo them but we don't know. you are looking at m skeptically because -- we know how the court is - >> we know how the court has ruled on abortion and wher they stand ideologically let's just say it >> sure but there are a lot of reasons jurisprudence wise, this might bother them. >> absolutely. because this is preceden setting. setting aside the issue of abortion, what is bein proposed here legally is reall out of the ordinary and for th fifth circuit not to just toss this out on standing alone, think, is the big shocker. and setting aside the people

who are at the heart of this setting aside a drug manufacturer, you are like wha does it mean to get the drug approved in the united's america in 2023? >> that's why you see all thes pharmaceutical companies hundreds of them, who have n relationship to mifepristone whatsoever, coming out in full force against the original texas decision because they ar so disturbed about wha precedent it sets for ever single drought across th entire country for all-time. now whether or not that's th type of thing a court is takin into account, i don't know but you know who is taking i into account it's lawmakers and if you notice, there was a flurry of amicus briefs, which are just sort of people have a interest in the case but who are not parties to it. if you look at the amicu briefs filed by lawmakers, it' over 240 democrats signing o saying block this texas ruling guess how many republica lawmakers signed on to it. >> it gets - >> less than 70. which shows you wher positionally this falls -- and it makes it without faul lines are very interesting for both the political side of thi and the legal side of this

>> but i've got to say, we'v got to remind people, at the beginning of this block we wer talking about ron desantis o the verge of signing, into effect in florida, a six-wee abortion ban so, it's very clear that it' optically, politically strategically bad fo republicans. but they are full steam ahea on, it right it has not had the intende chilling effect that it should if you care about the future o your party and - i mean, to say nothing of th freedoms of the american public i do wonder, on the scotus question, on the supreme court question, there is a lot o news about clarence thomas and his dealings with harlan crow, a wealthy donor. a lot of people have ver negative opinions of this court. against that backdrop, do yo think that - i mean, do you think tha clarence thomas scandal -- because that's what i think it is - will affect the way justic roberts -- chief justice roberts -- might vote here? because they are aware of th hit, reputation that the court has taken, the sort of tenuous

standing he has right now with the american public. were they to not throw thi case out on standing it woul further erode public confidenc in the court, i think, from vast number of americans >> they are certainly aware of certain -- of the issue of sort of th institutional credibility bein at stake but you have to remember, this is a group of bodies as an institution that considers itself insulated from the rest of the - >> it sure is. >> whether that's a realisti view or not, i think you could take issue with it but they certainly do not se themselves subject to the same rules. they don't have an ethics code for a reason so, as much as democrati lawmakers are pounding their fists about this stuff, unless they can figure out this sor of political will to get som sort of a new bill passed, that's not going to be on th table for this court and so, your, justice robert can look at this and say, don't know if this is great fo public confidence. but you have not heard a pee -- this issue at all.

>> wow >> i'm surprised to se actually clarence thomas issue a statement last week in response to that first publi report about in response to al that - and the gifts and all of that. but is not typically something that, at least publicly, the are bothered by. >> yeah. i'm just wondering if it has a triple trickle down effect i terms of what they may or ma do to strike the iron, g against the will of th american public. we will have to leave it there though, my friend. >> see where it goes >> laura jarrett, thanyok u, a always, for the coating th goings on in the u.s. justic system we will be right back. i'm also a library board trustee, a mother of two, and a grandmother of two. basically, i thought that my memory wasn't as good as it had been. i needed all the help i could get. i saw the commercials for prevagen. i started taking it. and it helped! i noticed my memory was better. there was definite improvement. i've been taking prevagen for a little over five years. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription.

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