turn obviously, it's raw i terms of the oath he took. what do you see about th foreign aspect of it >> in that group he was, in 25 or so folks, he knew there wer russian nationals and ukrainia nationals in that group. it wasn't just americans i that 25% discord group he wa helping lead using those classified documents again leadership and authority >> it strikes me as a very 202 story of someone leaking - a 21-year-old leaking highly sensitive documents of the war in ukraine for clout among his acolytes in a discord gaming channel. jamil jaffer, like you ver much >> thanks, chris that's all in on this thursday night. alex wagner's tonight starts right now. good evening, alex good evening, alex good evening, alex gaming channel. thank you very much. that is all in on this thursday night. alex wagner tonight starts right now. good evening, alex >> chris, you're talking about someone who's taking classified documents and showing them to

people just to make himself look good >> yep >> hmm who are you really talking about? is there someone else that we know like that i'm just asking. >> maybe if he had a restaurant he would put up classified folders in his restaurant or show where the nuclear map is. >> maybe those nuclear maps, man, nobody gets you prom king like a nuclear map. >> that's exactly right. >> chris, thank you always, my friend and thanks to you at home for joining us this evening. donald trump's questionable fund-raising tactics are not exactly a new thing. and i mean if it ain't broke after all he's turned his manhattan indictment into a money making juggernaut to the tune of $12 million. plus just like he turned his last days in office into a cash bonanza while at the same time trying to subvert democracy,

which was pretty ambitious some people might try to steal an election and leave it there, but not donald trump at the second january 6th hearing in congress back in june representative zoe lofgren made it a point to highlight trump's strategy she called it the big ripoff >> president trump used the lies he told to raise millions of dollars through the american people throughout the investigation we found evidence the trump campaign and its surrogates misled donors as to where their funds would go and what they would be used for. so not only was there the big lie, there was the big ripoff. >> well, now, according to "the washington post," mr. trump's cash calls have caught the attention of special counsel jack smith "the post" reports that smith has fired off a slew of subpoenas in recent weeks, all as part of his january 6th investigation looking to determine if former president

donald trump or his advisers scammed donors by using false claims about voter fraud to raise money. it notes, special counsel prosecutors are said to be interested into whether anyone associated would the fund-raising operation violated wire fraud laws, which makes it illegal to make false representations over e-mail to swindle people out of money. on this show last night we played new audio of trump advisers discussing the fact they didn't know of any fraud with voting machines while at the same time the president and his allies were railing about election fraud and using those claims of fraud to raise over $200 million in the period between his 2020 election loss and trump's eventual exit from office this reporting from "the washington post" is a big deal here because it marks a new chapter of the doj's investigation, which is now apparently not only focused on trump's efforts to overturn the election, but is also looking into trump's apparent grift

alongside that could have just left it at stealing the election but not donald trump the recent flurry of subpoenas would seem to indicate special counsel smith is doing everything but winding down that investigation. today trump's director of national intelligence, john ratcliffe, testified before the january 6th committee in washington, d.c. january 6th investigators might want to talk to ratcliffe among other things conversations he had with donald trump in which donald trump pressed him to investigate conspiracy theories involving voting machines. now, trump had tried but ultimately failed to block ratcliffe from testifying, and ratcliffe is part of a gang of aids called to testify including this week speechwriter stephen miller "the washington post" also reports smith's other investigation into trump's handling of classified documents found at mar-a-lago, well, that is humming right along that is not the legal case trump

was focused on today today trump was deposed for the second time in the new york state attorney general's sweeping fraud lawsuit in september letitia james formed a massive 2$250 million civil fraud lawsuit accusing trump, his adult children, and his organization of staggering fraud for overvaluing their assets by billions trump before that deposition he made sure this morning to call a.g. james a racist because that appears to be his main line of defense here once he arrived at the a.g.'s office he was greeted with chants of new york hates you and then he spent nearly the entire day behind doors. the spokesperson for the new york a.g.'s office said trump spoke a lot, which is quite different from the last time he was deposed.

just two days after the fbi searched trump's florida home for classified documents, trump sat for a deposition where he invoked the fifth amendment nearly 450 times >> i respectfully decline to answer the questions under the rights and privileges afforded to every citizen under the united states constitution this will be my answer to any further questions. >> you're currently the president of the trump organization, is that correct? >> same answer >> you knew at the time it was finalized the 2019 statement of financial condition contained false and misleading statements, is that correct? >> same answer >> in preparing the 2019 statement of financial condition mr. weisselberg and mr. mcconnie worked at your direction and inflate asset valuations on the statement of financial condition by employing false and misleading assumptions, is that correct? >> same answer >> you heard allen weisselberg

mentioned there, donald trump's long time and now former chief financial officer of the trump organization mr. weisselberg is currently in prison over at rikers island for his involvement in the trump organization tax fraud scheme, and he's scheduled to be released in just six days from now. we know mr. weisselberg recently changed up his legal team after reports the manhattan d.a. office might be looking to get weisselberg into its fraud case by pressuring him with more charges and prison time. lutesha james seeks to shutdown at least some of trump's businesses it could be catastrophic for trump. the suit is expected to go to trial later in october and while this is a civil trial, over on the criminal side manhattan district attorney alvin bragg is still looking into some of the very same allegations. joining us now is suzanne craig, pulitzer prizewinning investigative reporter for "the new york times," and joyce vance, former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama. thank you both for being here.

joyce, let me just start with you in terms of the legal implications today the fact that trump is speaking in this deposition, do you see anything particularly meaningful in that? >> so it's always a challenge when you have a client like the former president who i think lawyers despair of having any client control over him, and he answers questions. what will happen now is the attorney general's office will comb through the transcript. they will see if anything that the former president has said assists their case but because this is a civil proceeding, they are also free to share this deposition with folks like alvin bragg who may be looking potentially at criminal charges it's tough to figure why trump's lawyers would have let him go in and answer questions for more than seven hours >> yeah, seven hours is a long time and as joyce rightly points out i'm sure alvin bragg is interested in what transpired today as well.

how do you see the handshake between what tish james is doing and the fraud which we hear is a live issue >> i think a lot of people are focused what alvin bragg is doing with the hush money payment, but there's a separate case going on into the valuations tish james is looking at we don't know exactly where that is at, but it was very live and well when cy vance was in charge of that office a year erso ago and there's no reason to believe it's been put off. i think it's right now on the back burner. if i had to surmise or educated guess what they're doing is allen weisselberg is in rikers, and he is facing separate criminal jeopardy on a case that actually stems out of the attorney general's case, and that is some misstatements that he made to zurich and he indicated to them at some point in conversations with them that appraisals he was giving had

actually been, you know, backed up, the documents that they weren't misrepresented, gave him false information which could get him in a lot of trouble. that's trouble called fraud over a million dollars and could actually do hard time for that if that goes to trial and he's found guilty of it i think they're trying to apply pressure there to get him to cooperate on the potential criminal case that alvin bragg could bring forward and he could maybe -- allen weisselberg could maybe get himself out of some trouble if he cooperates on the other one. >> i'm always bringing up allen weisselberg especially when you're here, and i'm sort of obsessed with him as the sort of missing link in all this >> and the hush money case >> he's directly implicated in the hush money payments case >> and he didn't come forward on the grand jury on that i'm surmising because he would have been given immunity and a witness as well.

i think allen weisselberg has a lot of decisions to make how he's going to go forward and i can't imagine the idea essentially spending what could be the rest of his life in jail for essentially protecting donald trump he's got to decide what he's doing. and those are kind of the pressure points on him >> well, and he could be the witness that these prosecutors need i mean michael cohen is obviously a star witness, but a lot of people have cast aspirations on just using hims a central voice for the prosecution. weisselberg really is the puppeteer in terms of the financial dealings of the trump organization it would be invaluable to alvin bragg's case and any other case. >> well, no, i keep thinking, too with allen weisselberg there's avenues he could open up and we think very in a limited way he could help with the hush money payment. there just could be other ways we probably wouldn't have imagined he could help he is the keeper of the secrets of the trump organization in terms of all the things that are now in play here civilly or

criminally >> joyce, from a legal perspective just for the layman he's getting out of rikers in a matter of days he has changed representation. there is a lot that is being read into why he would be changing his counsel at this juncture i mean from your experience given all that looms over him after even he gets out of rikers, what are the implications of changing counsel at a juncture like this? do you read anything into it >> you know, there's been some reporting that suggests that the new legal team that he's now connected himself with is even more aligned with the former president and that one of the reasons that he walked away from the prior representation is because there's a little bit too much conversation about cooperation. we don't know for certain that that's accurate. a lot of this involves reading tea leaves but one of the enduring mysteries of every investigation into trump has been the lack of people who are willing to

cooperate. i mean i can tell you that in 25 years as a federal prosecutor when you look someone in the eye and tell them that they can be a witness or a defendant, they tend to take that very seriously. and many times you will end up with cooperation when you're looking at a ceo of a corporation and you have cfos maybe over a period of years who have been involved in the alleged fraud, those people will very often want to cooperate to minimize their own exposure to prison so now we have allen weisselberg who spent some time in rikers, who could be looking at spending a lot more time in prison. if there's ever a moment where he's highly motivated it's here, but he has persistitantly refused to cooperate over time >> yeah, sue, you know who he is as a character in the trump universe he worked for donald trump's father does it ring hollow to you when folks suggest maybe this is just because he's so loyal to donald

trump? >> i think he's incredibly loyal and i also think there's financial -- right now the trump organization is paying his legal fees and they've also paid him ha handsomely for years and years up and through the trial i think it's a real unknowable that i think it per plexes a lot of people and a lot of people think about it because you should imagine this man sitting in rikers and facing -- >> the rest of his life in jail or -- >> or turn on somebody that he's been incredibly loyal to and just also i think imagine the things he'd have to admit about himself. >> i do want to talk about potential alleged grift and fraud, joyce the special counsel's investigation into trump's fund-raising in and around january 6th and his claims of a

stolen election, as you see this the legal implications but fund raise off of it, which i've got to say let's not lose sight of the fact how ambitious that is not just to steal the election but to potentially raise money off of it. what legal peril does that add to the case here in terms of donald trump's enclosure >> it adds a lot wire fraud is a federal crime for prosecutors and carries a maximum 20 years penalty, so it's serious business. it does something really important if jack smith is able to make it out and perhaps even if he doesn't charge it. and that's to help explain a motive because, you know, prosecutors don't have to prove a motive when you're looking at the overall criminal activity that someone is charged with motive is very rarely an element, and it wouldn't be

here but motive satisfies jury's curiosity. a lot of the time juries want to understand why did someone do something that just was so clearly criminal that makes no sense? when you learn that there's a financial motive to continue perpetrating the big lie even when it's clear that it still is a lie that gives a jury a higher comfort level, and i think in the deliberations process it makes it easier for prosecutors to obtain a conviction so the wire fraud charge involves creating a scheme where you intend to defraud people with false information, and you can do it as you mentioned via e-mail, but it can also involve raid yore or television. lots of great options here for jack smith to pursue because we know trump was trying to get people to continue to give him money on a variety of different media in order for him to be able as he said to pursue a fair outcome in the election when, in fact, he knew he had lost. oats a very compelling case. >> you know, it sounds like from

"the post" reporting, too, that investigators may be pursuing a strategy similar to the one used to charge steve bannon in his build the wall grift what is so disturbing and unusual in all this is the fact so much of the trump criminal action comes back to the action of making money, just the desire to profit off of anything and everything apparently. >> remember bannon got pardoned for that and now he's facing another actually in the state court. i have to go back to that time after the election january 6th you were getting bombarded i get bombarded on a regular basis with donald trump fund-raising e-mails and that was exceptional. and i don't know if you remember it, too but it was just e-mail after e-mail after e-mail. remember there was a story "the new york times" did a great one where people were paying him and they kept charging the credit card against their wishes. >> they entered into agreements where their card would be

charged in subsequent months >> it's going to be interesting what jack smith finds on that in terms of he's going in there and he's going to look at, you know, what did the e-mails say were there legal counsel on there saying don't, were their fact checkers saying don't say it he's going to get so much information together >> we played some of it on the show last night, trump officials literally saying there's no there there when it comes to voting machines and then the e-mails fund-raising off of potentially off of results coming up the fallout from trump's family separation policy continues. there are still thousands of children without their parents, and some of them are american citizens but next do you like woke-free beer you can buy it comedian and former u.s. senator

alfranken to take a look at red states gone wild stay with us ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪ ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com.

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uhhhhh... the next generation 10g network. only from xfinity. the future starts now. let me say something to all of you and be as clear and concise as possible. >> was musician kid rock last week in a maga hat literally shooting 30 racks of bud light beer with a semiautomatic rifle. in case you missed this week's right-wing culture war conservatives are freaking out that bud light sponsored an ad featuring transgender influencer dylan mulvaney amazingly and kind of impossibly it gets worse. >> america's been drinking beer

frump a company that doesn't even know which restroom to use. that's why i created conservative dad's ultraright 100% woke-free beer. stop giving money to woke corporations that hate our values >> yeah, totally don't you hate when there's woke in your beer for now just $20 plus shipping and handling you can own the libs with a sixer of woke-free beer the thing is this is everything now. you can buy $6 bars of woke-free chocolate or pay for woke free service for cellphones conservatives are creating their own little conservative world for themselves and it's funny, sad funny with stuff like beer and chocolate

and it's all just a hustle but it does not stop there because red states are creating a different america. today florida's legislature passed a ban on most abortions after six weeks. governor desantis has already said he'll sign that into law despite the fact polls show 75% of florida residents and even 61% of florida republicans oppose a six-week ban. that will be bring the tally to 13 states with full abortion bans plus georgia and florida with their six-week bans that's despite the fact 6 in 10 americans believe abortions should be legal in most cases. in this year's legislative session 14 states have passed some form of anti-lgbtq rights law. it all means your lived experience as an american, what kind of civil rights you have basically depends on who runs your state in tennessee today state representative justin pearson was sworn back into the state legislature after pearson and another black democratic were expelled by the republican controlled house for speak out for gun safety reform.

republicans basically took away the representation of 130,000 tennesseeans because they didn't like they were protesting for reforms. after the civil rights gains after the first part of this millennium, republicans are taking it upon themselves to use any means necessary whether democratic or not to reverse course joining us now is al franken fresh off hosting the daily show and hosting the al franken podcast. thank you for joining us tonight. i'll ask you do you like woke or woke-free beer >> both. it ends with just hot beer >> which one is just so -- >> this is stupid. and those things last a day or so or a couple days. what amazes me are these states that are passing the six-week laws like in florida, et cetera

and the people don't want it there. and what was interesting is before dobbs this was a one-party issue. this was republicans issue >> they would vote on it >> they would vote on it these were one-issue people. now, after dobbs, there are a lot of one issue people the other way, in fact, maybe more and they include republicans as you were saying but also a lot of democratic young people, women and men, and that's going to be their one issue. and in some cases it'll be just peoples issue issue. it'll just be an issue >> clearly it's changing the reality of off-year elections and mid-term elections, right?

dobbs has electrified the american public. >> if you think about the next election is not an off-year election you're electing senators and you're electing presidents and you're electing judges if you're electing federal judges, this is going to be -- this doesn't play well in michigan it doesn't play well in wisconsin, as we saw in the supreme court vote there it doesn't play well in minnesota. it doesn't play well in pennsylvania this is -- this is re-erecting the blue wall. >> yeah, but i mean -- and i get that, right? you're seeing the tangible results of this position republicans have staked out for themselves, but it's not dimmed their enthusiasm that's what i think is so confounding, right it's really clear abortion is a terrible issue for republicans because they're at odds with the american public. and yet today ron desantis who has aspirations -- >> wants the nomination. >> right, they keep doing it and the ralty is there's the political question and there's also the human question. there are people who need access to reproductive choice all over

this country who aren't going to get it there may be people who die in the course of illegal abortions, right? >> he wants the nomination he doesn't care about -- >> actually winning. >> no, he doesn't care about people >> is it surprising -- there was aday in age when republicans would look and say, okay, we've got to dial it back on this. they are full steam ahead on this instead, and to me it seems it coincides with an increasingly aggressive republican party ready to employ any tactic it wants just to, "a," own the libs, cement party power, and sort of stake its primacy culturally, which is very different than a sort of tactical strategic game plan that used to dictate the party's moves. >> to me it's a losing strategy, cleary a losing strategy and again, they're alienating the people who, okay, didn't really care about abortion that

much because they always assumed roe would not be overturned. seps it was that became the number one issue for a lot of those people and for a lot of other people it became a big issue, maybe not their only issue it's like guns guns is less becoming a single issue where people who really care about their guns are going to vote for guns there's more and more people looking at this and going this is ridiculous, we've got to do something about background checks >> do you worry at all as someone who used to serve in the senate, and again setting aside the political stakes of all of this, in terms of what all of this increasingly aggressive legislating and anti-democratic maneuvering is doing to the population in terms of, you know, you have folks who maybe liberal leaning democrats living in red states who increasingly find themselves in a hostile

environment, and maybe the inverse is true for people who are conservatives living in blue states, and does it feel to you like we are eventually sorting ourselves into deeper blue and deeper red states? because, you know, you look at kid rock who's so incensed over a bud light ad he has to shoot-up with a semiautomatic rifle cans of bud light. this person doesinate want to live in new york city, right in the same way if you're a trans person that finds yourself in florida maybe you're thinking it's testimony to get out. i wonder what that does increasingly to an american public that doesn't share the same values and facts and increasingly the same zip code >> yeah, we're doing nothing to bring people together. we're just always dividing people, and we are getting more separate and living more in our different areas that are red or blue, and this has been happening for quite a while, hasn't it? >> do you think it's getting worse?

>> yeah, it seems to be. it does, yeah. >> and i'm not trying to draw false equivalents because i don't know the same aggression, it is not the embrace of anti-democratic tactics. >>ia don't want to do false equivalents between crazy -- excuse me, like what happened in tennessee and kicking those two guys out, which is crazy >> yeah. >> or like you elect a new supreme court justice in wisconsin and suddenly republicans in the state legislature are talking about we could recall her we could recall her before she's sworn in >> yes, exactly. that's not how democracy works >> boy, is it not. and it looks kind of like what it is, which is crazy and stupid >> but it's also -- it is happening. it continues to happen >> and in georgia where they've

been talking about getting rid of fani willis >> they passed a law where they can recall prosecutors, and we will see what happens down in georgia if and when she makes a charging decision on donald trump. and as efforts to subvert the 2020 election. interesting that subverting democracy is met with a potential plan to subvert democracy. >> there's just an escalation in how far gone the republican party -- i mean when they called january 6th a legitimate political discourse i mean it's close to parity, but it's not because it's not funny >> that is the fact. from one funny person to a not funny person, it is not funny. al franken, it's good to see you, sir thanks for your time >> you're not not funny. >> i mean that's a complicate. >> i don't think so. >> and we'll leave it there, folks. we have still more ahead this evening including the latest on

new court rulings and how they're affecting access to the most commonly used medication abortion pill. new restrictions could go into effect soon. but first trump bended to political pressure and rescinded the family separation policy back in 2018, but today we are still learning about the extent of the chaos it created. that is just ahead

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when you look back on the trump administration, several things probably come to mind, but its zero-tolerance family separation policy provokes a fairly specific indelible image, hundreds of children some as young as infants in large metal cages with only foil sheets for blankets after being taken from their parents. the administration's rationale is that by intentionally breaking these families apart, it would discourage people from attempting to cross the southern border those images led to outrage both here and abroad and intense political backlash forced the trump administration to rescind that policy just a few months after it was formally enacted. after a federal judge ordered the government to reunite the families, we learned about 5,500 children were taken from their parents. and that reunification process has been a disaster. some separations have lasted

weeks, some of them have lasted years, and to this day there are still children who remain unaccounted for. but we learned this week thanks to "the new york times" report which cites lawyers and advocates working with the government to reunite some families, we learned as many as 1,000 of those children who were separated from their parents are united states citizens unlike foreign-born children who were taken to federal shelters and entered into federal databases, many of these u.s. foreign children were placed in state foster care systems, and it was left up to state family courts to decide how to handle the cases, which has in turn led to a patchwork of records that the government is now trying to sift through to find these kids. one immigration advocate told "the times" while she knows of 226 american children sent to child protective services in california, records for children sent to foster care in arizona and new mexico and texas do not exist.

so u.s. citizens, children essentially lost by their own government at the direction of their own government the aclu has an ongoing class action lawsuit seeking damages for the trauma these families have endure as a result of the trump era policy they've since asked u.s. born children now just finding out about it they they be included this all coming as the biden administration be askedto rescind another trump era immigration policy next month. that policy which is called title 42 has allowed border agents to turn away migrants ostensibly to preven the spread of covid-19. the appalling consequences of the trump administration's action on immigration are something the current administration must or should grapple with as it reportedly considers bringing back family detentions to combat a possible uptick in the number of asylum seekers arriving at the southern border once title 42 winds down. stay tuned

up next as the future of abortion medication remains uncertain florida's on track to make abortion access even harder to obtain. stay with us

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would ban abortions in the state after six weeks of pregnancy with fewxes. now, six weeks is well before many people know they're pregnant it is also not popular policy in the state of florida a recent university of north florida poll showed 75% of respondents from both political parties opposed a six-week ban that is why protesters swarmed the house chamber today once interrupting debate over the bill and at another point throwing scraps of paper onto the house floor. most people in florida do not want this ban, but today as we mentioned the house which has a republican super majority passed the measure 70-40. now the bill heads to governor ron desantis who is expected to sign it. once that happens, the south which is already mostly an abortion desert will become even more restrictive and it is not just the south access to abortion pills, which are used in over half of abortions in this country, that access is now up in the air nationwide because of that case

originating in texas late last night a three judge panel on the fifth circuit court of appeals made a decision that restricts the availability of mifepristone, one of the pills used in medication abortion. it's not allowing it to be entirely thrown out but rolling back recent changes the fda made to the drug's access in effect patients will no longer be able to get mifepristone to the mail they'll have to make multiple in-person doctor visits instead. and they only have up to seven weeks to access mifepristone, which is three weeks less than before and, again, that's before some people, maybe many people know they're even pregnant. earlier today the justice department promised to take the fight over mifepristone all the way to the supreme court but unless the court weighs in soon, this thursday, the major restrictions on abortion medications will go into effect this friday as tomorrow turns into saturday. in the meantime a different

federal judge in washington state today is telling the fda to do exactly the opposite of all this, reerating an order he issued last week the judge told the fda to make absolutely no changes to the availability of mifepristone at least in the 17 states involved in the lawsuit before his court so what does the fda do with all this, and when should we expect scotus to weigh in joining us now with a person with all the answers, nbc news senior legal correspondent laura jarrett. laura, i need you in this hour first, help me understand what happens. two judges, different states, one in washington, one in texas saying the opposite thing. how does this get resolved >> normally it would go to the supreme court and the supreme court would have something to say to the lower courts to give some guidance about how to reconcile that conflict. only thing is the case does not live in the supreme court just yet because the justice department hasn't actually submitted their brief and neither has the pill manufacturer now, we could expect it any

moment they could do it tonight, they could do it tomorrow but as you mention the clock is ticking on this so it's a little bit surprising given the time crunch they're in, the level of urgency you might expect to see obviously the attorney general came out today with a strong statement about it, but that was hours ago. so we're still check on that brief and it's not in it yet but the moment it is in the supreme court you could see action pretty quickly. let's assume for the moment the justice department puts it in tomorrow, you could see a supreme court ruling probably just an administrative say which would essentially put everything on pause for a minute, like a cooling-off period to wipe away this saturday deadline, if you will you might see that stay as soon as tomorrow. >> okay, what is your -- i mean, let's unpack the ruling in the fifth circuit right because the anti-choice moving is claiming this as a victory. i think some people would say mifepristone is still available, isn't that actually a victory for people who are advocates of choice it seems like once you actually get down to brass tacks it is not a good ruling at all for a

number of things for a number of reasons for people who are advocates for folks having reproductive choice. >> well, the language in the opinion is striking especially as it relates to standing, which is the legal right to sue in court. and on that score the fifth circuit panel, two trump appointees and a george bush appointee pound for pound this case is brought by advocacy groups and four doctors. it's not brought by women who say they were harmed by mifepristone or doctors who say they prescribed mifepristone but doctors who say when they were in the emergency room they came across women who had bad effects and therefore at some point in the future may encounter some woman -- so that typically is seen as quite speculative. instead the fifth circuit has said that's just fine, and that's a view of standing that perhaps -- we don't know -- but

perhaps this supreme court may decide may work for them we don't know. >> we do have a court who's ruled on abortion and know where they stand ideologically >> jurisprudence wise this might bother them. >> what is being proposed here legally is like really out of the ordinary, and for the fifth circuit not to just toss this uton the standing alone i think is a big shocker and if you are, well, setting aside the people that are at the heart of this, for example, a drug manufacturer, you're like what does it mean to get a drug approved in the united states of america in the year 2023, right? >> and it's why you see all these pharmaceutical companies, literally hundreds of them who have no relation to mifepristone whatsoever coming out in full force against the original texas decision because they're so disturbed about what precedent it sets for every single drug across the entire country for all-time

now, whether or not like that's the type of thing a court is taking into account, i don't know but you know who's taking it into account is lawmakers. there was a flurry of amicus briefs if you look at the briefs filed by lawmakers it's over 240 democrats signing on saying block this texas ruling. guess how many republican lawmakers signed onto that, less than 70 which shows you for positionally this falls. and the fault lines are very interesting for both the political side of this and the legal side >> i've got to say we've got to remind people at the beginning of this block we're talking about ron desantis on the verge of signing into effect in florida a six-week abortion ban. it's very clear it's optically, politically, strategically bad for republicans, but they're full steam ahead on it it hasn't had the intended chilling effect it should if you care about the future of your party and i mean to say nothing of, you know, the freedoms of the american public. i do wonder on the scotus

question, on the supreme court question there is a lot of news about clarence thomas and his, you know, dealings with harlan crow, a wealthy donor. a lot of people have very negative opinions of this court. against that backdrop do you think that -- i mean do you think that clarence thomas scandal because that's what i think it is, will affect the way justice roberts -- chief justice roberts might vote here? because they're aware of the hit reputationaly the court has taken. the sort of tenuous standing it has right now with the american public were they to not throw this case out on standing it would further erode public confidence in the court i think from a vast number of americans >> they're certainly aware of the issue of sort of the institutional credibility being at stake but you have to remember, like, this is a group of bodies as an institution that considers itself insulated from the rest

of the -- >> oh, they sure do. >> whether or not that's a realistic view or not i think you can take issue with. they certainly do not see themselves as subject to the same rules they do not have an ethics code for a reason unless they can figure out the political will to get some sort of new bill passed, that's not going to be on the table for this court and so sure justice roberts can look at this and say i don't know if this is great for public confidence, but you haven't heard a peep out of him on this issue at all i was surprised to actually see clarence thomas issue a statement last week in relation to that first report about all the yachts and all the different gifts and all of that. but this is not typically something at least publicly they are bothered by. >> yes i'm just wondering if it has a trickle down effect in terms of what they may or may not do to strike the ire and will of the american public. laura jarrett, thank you as

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we have a programming note for you. this sunday msnbc films will present a new series from nbc studios. the actor, producer, and comedian travels across the country taking a look at the diverse latino culture as he looks at food, politics and music and bodagas. the six part series begins sunday at 10:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc and stream on peacock. but tomorrow john will join me here in conversation right here in new york city ahead of the premier of the series. we'll have that for you tomorrow you won't want to miss it. i'll see you again tomorrow. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is coming up next florida governor ron desantis quietly signed an extreme abortion ban into law late last night. we'll dig into the legislation and how it